Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

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she might want D1 okay I'm not sure when they when they activate yeah let's see if it turns green all right okay it's time it is 6: PM we're going to call this meeting to order roll call McKenzie please uh Vice chairman kins Li gone um tonight uh commissioner Stewart Miller s Pence Stern and Wesley is here thank you we do have a court let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pled Al to of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation indivisible with liy and justice for all Item B call to the public this is a business meeting of the Planning and Zoning commission Town values and welcomes public input please address the commission as a whole and not individual commission members do not address staff or members of the audience commission action on items brought up all to the public is limited by the open meeting law the commission may direct staff to study the matter and reschedule for a future consideration and a later date items on the agenda will not be heard or discussed in the call to the public individuals are limited to 3

minutes and we have none this is a D1 okay okay consider approval item C1 of the minutes of the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning commission held January 9th 2025 have all commission members had a chance to peruse the meeting minutes yes if so um ask Mr chair i' make a motion that we approve the minutes of the January 9th 2025 meeting all in favor raise their right hand second I'll second that okay all in favor raise your right hand approve unanimous item d new business public comment will be taken at the beginning of each agenda item after the subject has been announced by the chairman and explained by staff any citizen who wishes may speak one time for five minutes on each agenda item before or after commission discussion questions from commission members however may be directed to staff or a member of the public through the chairman at any time item D1 public hearing and discussion regarding z-92 amending the zoning map from r- low to R1 D2 for 10 part off of Rim Road director Lo yes sir good evening uh Planning and Zoning Commissioners and members of the public this item uh came to my attention when I

had a gentleman who lives out there he lives at uh one of the one of the subject Parcels uh he came and asked if he could get a building permit for a simple structure uh a shed which in some instances doesn't even require a permit but then I started looking at the properties around him and he doesn't meet the development standards for our low specifically the one acre minimum none of these locks are one acre they're all about a half an acre a little over a half an acre so I did some research and kind of you know why question mark came to mind and why did this occur and the only rational explanation is at one time the county was approving splits without Authority or signature Authority from the town and so these don't meet our development standards um that's the only explanation that I can come up with and I know that before our current Town manager was here that was happening because he stopped that a few years back before uh probably one year or so before I got here I don't know the exact time frame but it's kind of odd that the county was doing that and this isn't the only occurrence of it and it kind of is irritating to say that but there's other skeletons in the closet out there that I seen with the same problem after I was looking at this one um that being said though there is about eight houses on these 10 Parcels that are already here um why they were issued building permits I can't answer they shouldn't have been because they don't meet the development standards I don't know why that occurred it wasn't under my watch certainly um however I'm not what I'm not going to do is tell these people that they can't have their homes there because they don't meet the development Center so this is the solution to rectify that um and all all the request is for is to amend it from one low density zoning to another low density zoning from one acre minimums to half acre minimums that's

really the only difference everything else is going to be the same um so it it permits what's happening here and it will allow the gentleman that wanted to build a shed to build a shed what it doesn't allow is it doesn't allow guest homes but these properties don't have the square footage for that anyway really so it's not going to really affect any body quite frankly and everyone that I talk to after I describe what's happening um they're fine with it so really that's this is just to rectify the past errors of the county and perhaps the town as well and to uh rezone this there's you'll notice that there's no General plan use Amendment because it falls under low density as well so that's why that is happening is there any questions from you from the commission um any questions from the commission let's start down here um I don't have question but I do have a comment in that you have 10 Parcels identified here two of them are vacant Parcels that are contiguous and they're owned by the same party if they combine those two together they would have 1.26 Acres MH I would think that parcel should be left alone because you're giving this person an unfair advantage of being able to sell the smaller. 56 of an acre or 7 of an acre lots with now this new zoning that nobody else along rimroad because there are gosh 50 other Parcels there that they're all subject to the 1 acre minimum true so why not leave whatever we can keep as a 1 acre minimum that way and that it's the parcel it's these two pieces here if they combined become 1 2 six that are owned by Roy Payne right good point because I mean would we be setting a PR I don't know that I don't

know that they split the properties though they didn't they purch separately so I think that should be taken into consideration now if they came and uh had split these properties then I would say that that's 100% accurate but you know their intention I don't know they bought the properties as two properties they haven't come and asked to combine them I've never heard heard from these people it was just something I was looking at very very good observation and I would I would wholeheartedly agree with it I again it's a great observation the only reason I wouldn't agree with it is because they probably purchased them separately and I don't I've never split them or I've never split any of these properties cuz if it would came to my office and and I would have saw that the answer would have been the same that one of the other gentlemen got no you can't do it because you don't meet the development standards so that's what the answer should have been but they bought they bought them this way and so it could also be argued that we'd be taking their rights by forcing they should have investigated when they purchased that that no arguing that fact so due diligence was missing somewhere everybody all all around here okay thank you uh Rick any Mr chair I think you know this this is unfortunate we see Wildcat subdivisions in the area uh not in just this town but many other towns in Arizona and you know it it really is a poor practice uh planning for emergency response any number of reasons um you know these uh Lots I understand were created probably a long time ago maybe even before the town uh existed would some of them were yeah some of looking back through the building permit history some of them were built there was two homes that I identified that were built in the 60s so those would definitely be considered legal non-conforming but the rest the others six uh I don't know how that happened honestly and I think you I think you mentioned in your report to us that um the the comprehensive plan for the city

really endorses this idea of uh you know making these non-conforming Lots conforming uh does this reduction in lot size apparently it doesn't uh create a problem from a septic U standpoint is there a minimum size the nitrogen loading uh should have been investigated because this is all the all the Lots in this area aren't on uh Pinetop Lakeside Sanitary District so the nitrogen loading should have been um an area of concern for the county okay um when they were doing this but obviously it wasn't I don't know if the left hand wasn't talking to the right hand or what was going on there but U that's not something that the town deals with because we're not the um uh sewer provider not provide that service I think I'd caution Property Owners not to build anything in the town limits without a proper permit if any of that has been done since the town uh had the authority uh i' that's a question mark I again I can't I can't answer that question because can really haunt a property owner for doing that when it comes to reselling their home have to um and the county should have took that into consideration too and now they've stopped that practice but uh yeah I found other instances of it and um what happens is and you may or may not uh have have had this happen before but uh the homeowner or the property owner in some cases comes in and says says they want to get a building permit and then I tell them what no I tell them no because that's what the code says I have to do so I don't know why um but if that was my property I'd be pretty upset that I bought a piece of property that I was sold a piece of property uh and it's not developable so yeah I and I and I think your point is valid on the one but because it was split already and they bought two Parcels I I think you need to take that in consideration for sure well they could be refused a permit when they came in to get a permit and then that would catch their attention

then then they would say how how could we make this work and you say well you combine those two lots together and it unless they decided to sell one before they got a permit that's true okay John any comments I I would just caution against you know this this is very similar to The Spot zoning if we do that when we did the RV park if we're going to say look you bought two separate Lots but we're going to make you guys combine them but everybody else we're going to do other do the the half acres so I'm 100% opposed to that notion altogether because they bought in a specific way it would be a governmental taking at that point because why didn't we it could easily be argued yeah yeah and and we we don't want to do spot zoning right even though I was all four spot zoning on the other one but I got overruled on that I feel like this would just be a spot zoning situation as well so you know we can't undo what happened in the past so to me none of that matters it's like what do we do moving forward and I think the rational thing moving forward is make them half make them half acres they all conform they're all conveyable they couldn't be split any further yeah they can't be split any further you can't do a guest quarters right looking at the map you know H more than half of them already have structures on them right so it's not like they're going to add to it so I you know I would recommend that we just approve the half ACR on all of them and that way they do conform to that regardless of what something else is down the road that is the attent of the general plan as well to uh remove non-conforming uses so this is one way to do it MH Jeff any comments no comments no questions okay David none for me maybe just a question about what triggered it was it the gentleman coming in looking for a permit yeah it was uhhuh and then uh so I told him no and then he said well what if I buy some property from my neighbor they've agreed to sell me a piece of their property and I said well you can't even do that because that would increase illegal non-conforming

useth on your neighbor so both answers were no unfortunately for him and so he wasn't very happy needless to say um I guess my only comment would be as far as 911 service these addresses out here most of them are Rim Road and they don't front on rim road that is correct so there a procedure that yes and would would they actually change their address so um I've I've talked to many of these people and the neighbors and let them know that there is an issue with that and that we're trying to get away from that because it's a life health safety issue really what it comes down to uh if somebody calls 911 and the the First Responders is on rim Road and they don't see these they don't see any of these addresses well then it's going to be a problem because something bad could happen right so the solution to that is to rename the road the the name the the road should be renamed anyway because it's over 200 ft um we have a policy where it's over 200 ft it needs to be needs to be named and so these residents or the town will require them to um not not not uh form of an improvement district which is one option but to uh require them to name the road and to sign a u maintenance road maintenance agreement as well which they're already if you go on the road it's an interesting row because there's a power line running down the center of it so you can tell that it was a a public utility M as opposed to a road at one point but then it became a road which connects to um the other the other subdivision in the woods there so yeah really uh there it would it would it would take a lot of money to uh bring it up to standard they could do that if they so choose to have the town maintain it but that would be the only way and but either way the street needs to be named and these um all these properties need to be readdressed not off from Road

stay as a private Street Mr there's one other I one I I overlooked one thing the uh the parcel in the middle the 311 Das um I think that's uh 50-25 is that a landlocked parcel you know I had that question myself but um you know legally that's not possible so some way there has to be access to that property I don't know how they're getting it it's kind of um they must have an access easement from a neighbor is all I can think I'm not sure but legally that's not um uh that's illegal in the state of Arizona to have a landlock parcel so they have to have access some way I don't know what how they're accessing though okay all righty we do have one um public comment on item D1 Miss um Laura Allen um I'm one of these parcels and I have a home on that I think I have like 76 or 788 of an acre um built it 25 years ago had and we built the house uh the G and we we built the house and then uh several years later we built a garage that's unattached onto it it doesn't connect but so it's on there um as far as uh 911 I'm just going to go through my notes here um as far as 911 never had a problem called him several times um my husband was Ill um several years ago and he had a fall and I needed a lift assistance fire trucks came right out lift assisted he was fine they didn't need to take him you know um and I have a prosthetic hip I pulled my hip out doing yard work and um after that

you can't move I mean you got a leg that's not good so anyway called 911 came right out took to the hospital they never had a problem finding the house um now about you mentioned a landlock property there is a property behind me that is landlocked and they put an an easement through the property next to me and the property behind them they made an easement for that property so there is a landlock property there just to let you know um for the address change the only one that's really well I guess some people in the summer cuz I'm the only one there full-time I'm I'm a full-time resident and work up here full-time um for an address change really the only one that's going to affect is me I've lived up here 25 years um it's not a major problem but to change your address you know um I mean it can be done it's not that big of a deal but I don't want to um and then um so are there not going to be any existing changes to the the or or no lot changes to the existing homes you're not going to say oh this landline your your clearance should be here and so we're going to take 10 ft off your property that would be your neighbor your neighbors neighbors would do that not the town that's adverse possession like okay well okay that would be a like the neighbors like hey I own this 10 feet and you'd be like no you don't own that 10 feet like that wouldn't be the town the town wouldn't be involved that's a civil action that's a civil action yeah so it has nothing has nothing to do with this okay we don't have any problem with that then um and there are vacant

properties around my area if we say that this is okay and you can build on and on a half acre are you going to like put a road down a piece of property and put a bunch of homes and and make like a subdivision there like is up by the woods across from the woods development right up the street I mean it's a beautiful it's a beautiful homes and everything but I mean there is vacant land in that area all all of the properties um I didn't catch your name I'm sorry um Laura Allen Laura I spoke with you you on the phone yeah I'm at 744 West strm Road mhm all all of the properties couldn't be further divided um there' be the only thing that could be on there is a single family residential just like your house okay so it doesn't it doesn't uh pertain to any of just the land well it pertains to those 10 properties Parcels yeah just the ones that are named and these all have homes on them right so they all have homes um there's two that do not there's two that are vacant okay cuz there's a parcel in front of my neighbors um someone has bought one lot but and I think they have over an acre and then the next one I think I think it's an acre it might be over an acre can they split that then no because um this is only this only pertains to the properties that are that don't meet the 1 acre development standards we're not rezoning any of one acre Parcels so there is literally no way that anyone could create another parcel out of these properties okay not on these 10 these are the only 10 that are under consideration are the ones that don't meet development standards the 10 we're looking at are supposed to be an acre

and they're not right so we have to put them in a box that says look you guys all conform it has to be half acre they're already that right all we're doing is nothing's going to change to us no correct the nothing's going to change and it has nothing to do with the other acres and you can't build high density or anything none of that's changing we're just saying look you don't conform let's just make it so we all conform so we're just changing the half everything to a half acre instead of an acre okay cuz like and I know the neighbor and they're not building um a um shed they're building a whole garage yeah he's building a whole garage and wanted a space up on top to store stuff and he then they said that's why it was denied yeah he described it as a shed initially and then a garage and I think it's it's it's going to be it's going to be a garage and he is talking with the person next to them um if they're both not and I don't believe they are both Acres no not you know and I have no grievance on that that he can can't buy land from her a couple of feet that's all he wants is a couple no different than you you when you built your garage right yeah he wants to have a garage so yeah so I have a question when when you came and and did you build the homes or did you buy the home no we we built it so you got a building permit from the town yeah contract wish you do the building permit I just a question because I'm curious I don't know we had a contractor they had a contractor mhm a contractor built the home so I don't know I didn't so hopefully they got building permits right well I I assume so it went up people came I've got I had a well put in yeah it should have been the same I had a well put in and we've got a septic on the property so um and the city has come down that road because the house next to

me was having well problems um it was a split well which did not work with the house behind it another contractor came in and did a shambles of a job and took one well and split it between two homes and that didn't work out at all even though they were part-time people um the the well couldn't function at just part-time and if both the families happened to be up there it was you know they'd come over do you have water it's like yeah I've got water oh we don't we don't have water you know and it would go low it would get muddy mine's been fine but in the meantime the house next to me said they wanted to get their own own water and get city water well it came up the road cuz there was a BNB at the end on the other side of me and they wanted City water so they ran the pipe down the road for the BNB it's not anymore it's the guy that's building the garage is he bought that home and um so now um yeah and so now they have City water so there's City water in front of my home if I need it so just one comment um the city does is not a water purveyor so you most likely have Arizona Water whatever top water but the city has no utilities okay well okay it says there is the guys that come out and check the me or whatever they're out there so I'm just just wanted to make sure you can't split up that vacant land okay have one question for you uh when you look at the uh County uh property map they allude that that road is called Pinewood Lane in front of your house anybody recognize that name yeah I do Pinewood Lane comes

through the woods development and it's Pinewood Lane from the top when you come by when you come through the woods development there and you pass the water tank and go and you start to turn that's Pinewood Lane and it goes all the way down and they they extended it and you'll hit gravel eventually you'll lose pavement and hit gravel so that was named Pinewood because those people there there's one house at the end and that was um it was a westm road address and they did change their address to Pinewood Lane Mr chair can I ask a question go ahead I drove out there and looked and you know as you driving up Pinewood Lane from rimroad M it's blocked off you can't go in very far it's all blocked off so it doesn't there's an easement that goes through but everybody's got it all blocked off you know why that is and and who maintains these easements uh these these substandard what I would call a substandard not any particular standard that the town would require who maintains them in that area right um for the most part and hasn't been done for a while um and I guess I'll be the one that will be in charge of it um from Rim if you're coming off a rim and you turn you turn on our road on West strm Road if you turn on it and you've got a house on the corner there and then there's two homes on that on these properties that um came from Holly Lake many years ago when the um natives were going to when they took over the land and they said you've got to leave your houses and whatever a new Chief came in and um so they said you have to leave your houses well some people their own homes down some people moved

them and some people left them and and the natives took over their homes because it was on native land so two homes on these lands are from Holly Lake from years ago way before we bought um but we the ones on that West strm Road we will maintain that and do you have a road maintenance agreement with your neighbors we do not we do not we have um one time um when my husband was living we did have someone come out got an agreement between the everybody okay this is how much it's going to cost and um this is how much everybody owes and everybody paid and the road was fixed they came out and smoothed it and put gravel down and it was nice that hasn't been done in a few years so it needs to be done again but we will maintain that okay so the road maintenance agreement would formalize that and basically require that all the all the property owners in there sign on to it so um okay it would just basically you guys are already doing that it's parent but it would it would formalize that often people have problems getting financing if they're on a road like that and they don't have a maintenance agreement so it would be a good idea to just have one okay we haven't had any problem and I've had several of the other residents say hey if you want to do something with the road let me know I'll help you know I'll pay and I get them to sign up and do it I know and I work I've you know been working full-time going to retire here this next year and I like I said I'm I'm probably it you're so so I and I can take over that if that needs to be done it would it would be a good idea to have

that in yeah but it's not required by this commission okay it's not required by the action tonight but it is a requirement of the town code for it to be renamed that's why I mentioned it because uh it would require the naming of that road and then you guys will be readdressed which may be inconvenient happy with that but uh it's not the end of the world sure I think it's important that you know and everybody in the neighborhood know that this these roads will always be private they're not built to any kind of a town standard corre uh I just can't imagine that the town would ever accept these for maintenance so just so you know that that's uh oh I know I know I've been back there alone and there's been a snow storm and been 3 foot of snow and haven't been you know and had to hire a back ho to come in and get me cuz I know no the plow is not going to come down the road so I we we've dealt with it and everybody knows that okay okay all right thank you ma'am okay thank you um I don't see any other cards here so uh I would entertain a motion I'll make a motion to recommend approving z92 amending the Zoning for the following 311 5025 B 311 5025 C 311 5025d 31150 25e 311 5026a 311150 26b 311 5026 C 311 5026d 31150 85 and 311150 86 from R low to R12 to the Town Council a

second okay it's been moved and seconded the motion all in favor favor please raise your right hand unanimous uh since there's no further items this meeting is adjourned there you go