Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Time. So thank you for that. Welcome, everybody. Glad you're here today to participate in, Pinellas County government. Staff, good to see everybody here as well. We will get started. Commissioner Flowers is gonna lead us in the, invocation, and then commissioner Scheer is gonna lead us in the pledge.

To the creator of all mankind, we give you thanks, praise, and honor for being able to assemble ourselves together on today. We thank you for safe traveling grace and arrival's mercy for those who are still on their way. Serve as your protection and your guidance for them. We ask that you bless the men and women who are serving in the United States military, those who are abroad, and those who are at home. We know that their sacrifice is great, and we acknowledge what they have done and what they will do in order to protect those of us that live in The United States Of America.

We ask for a special prayer and protection for those that are serving on the state and federal level. Whether we agree or disagree, they do not deserve the hatred, the vitriol, and the attacks. We also ask likewise protection for those of us that are here serving as county commissioners, school board members, and council members on a local level. We ask that you continue to give us clarity of mind and singleness of heart such that the decisions that we are making are for the betterment of our entire community. We are grateful that you loved us even before we knew ourselves, and we are grateful that we have a heart and desire to serve the community.

We ask a special blessing for our families whom sometimes we miss out on so many things that are important to them because we are doing the work for a greater good. But we know that you understand, that you love all, that you see all, and that you are the one who sits high and looks low. We ask that you oversee this meeting on today. We ask that all of the information that is brought before us be brought with intentionality and that decisions that are made are made in the best interest of Pinellas County. These and all of the blessings we ask in your name, irrespective of what religion you are, irrespective of whom you serve, we ask that you acknowledge the creator on today.

These and all of the blessings we ask in your name. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Alright. Alright. So we have a few proclamations before I get to that. I wanted a motion and a second to allow commissioner Scott to participate. Second. A motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Yep. And I see you're out in California. Not.

No. Don't want it all.

Good to have you participating today.

Thank you.

Also wanted to say thank you to corporal Clyde Thornton, deputy Mike Winnick, deputy Tom Manley, and deputy Jeff Atkinson, all from the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office, all here to just to be here with us and to make sure things are done orderly. That includes us. So thank you for being here and and all that you do for us every single day. Okay. I'm gonna go up front and do the four proclamations.

Alright. Well, the the last the last meeting in May obviously is there's a lot going on. We don't have another meeting until the middle of June, but we always celebrate if you if that's the right word. We acknowledge, we honor those who served, those who were killed in action, those who served. Memorial Day celebration is always a somber somber weekend, somber Monday, sol whenever they have those celebrations, and we have them all over the county.

So today, we we offer up our own proclamation, and I'm gonna ask, miss Tiffany Downs, president of Gulf Coast Chapter of the American Gold Star Mothers to come forward, Jean Ufalussi, who's the vice president of Gulf Coast Chapter of American Gold Star Mothers, and miss Tony Gross, the Center for Development and Civic Engagement and founder of the Gold Star Awareness, if they'll come up, please. Alright. Since the late nineteenth century, each year in May, Americans pause to observe Memorial Day, a special day and national holiday since 1971, set aside to remember with dignity and admiration those who made the ultimate sacrifice and service to our nation. Throughout our nation's history, our brave men and women of the military have stepped forward to protect our country. We recognize the Gold Star mothers, Gold Star families, Gulf Coast chapter who are mothers with sons and daughters who have perished while serving in the military or who or who are miss missing in action.

American Gold Star Mother's mission is to provide fellowship and strength while keeping loved ones, memories alive by working to assist veterans, their families, and the community. Today, we honor and remember sergeant Nicholas Nicholas Nick a Flowers. His memory and sacrifice will not be forgotten. A local who attended Palm Harbor University High School worked at a local recruiting office during his junior and senior year in high school getting ready to deploy. After his graduation in 2003, Nick immediately deployed to Fort Jackson and went into special specialty training.

We are truly grateful for his service, his ultimate sacrifice, and the hardships his loved ones continue to endure in his absence. On this day, we honor and never forget Nick's service and sacrifice among many, many, many others in the defense of our great nation. We remember all of those who have donned our nation's uniforms and their families for the magnitude of sacrifices made protecting our freedoms. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Pinellas County Board of County Commissioners that May 25 be recognized as Memorial Day in Pinellas County. And with that, want to the ladies who have a few words to say, that would be great. This will be

I've been here a couple times before and I just want to say before I get started that eleven years ago, Pinellas County, the Board of County Commissioners, Chairman Welsh back then, and Chairman Maroney, I believe, worked with me and another Gold Star Mother to do, to establish the Fallen Soldiers Battlefield Cross down at the War Memorial Park near Bay Pines. So if you would like to go see it, it's a beautiful, beautiful memorial that Pinellas County created for the Gold Star families. So we're going to be talking about briefly the Memorial Day symbols. When a man or woman enters our armed forces, a Blue Star service flag can be displayed by his or her family. This service flag contains a blue star which represents hope and pride.

The red border signifies the blood given by many of our warriors in defense of freedom both at home and on foreign soil. The field of white stands for the purity of spirit, the price of peace that only a warrior can truly know.

When a warrior gives his last full measure of devotion in the defense of this nation, the star of his Blue Star service flag is covered with a gold star. The gold star represents courage and the supreme sacrifice given to the cause of liberty and freedom. The family of a fallen service member will often place this gold star flag in the front window of their home as a sign of honor and sacrifice.

So we would like to say our sons' names because a hero remembered never dies. Would you like to start? Okay.

And I wanted to also say that there is a very famous saying that a soldier could possibly die twice. Once at his passing and second, if his name is not mentioned or remembered. So it is very important for us to keep our son's memory alive. My son was sergeant Nicholas Allen Flowers, and he lost his life 04/05/2018. My son is staff sergeant Patrick Dolphin, United States Marine Corps, and he lost his life on 07/31/2011 in Afghanistan.

This is for my other son who served in the Navy.

My son, United States Army corporal Frank r Gross, he is Oldsmar's only known fallen hero. Frank died while serving in Afghanistan from roadside bomb, 07/16/2011. So thank you for joining us today to observe Memorial Day on Monday. Remember these three soldiers and Marine Corps, right, as you go to observe Memorial Day on Monday. So just take a moment at 03:00 and say a prayer and then enjoy the rest of your day with the family. That's what it's all about, family time. Thank you.

Okay. Again, thank you ladies for being here, and and thank you for your son's ultimate sacrifice, and our prayers are with you and your families. Second proclamation today is for National Safe Boating Week. I'd like to call Betsy Scott, commander of the Clearwater Flotilla eleven one, US Coast Guard Auxiliary, and immediate past Flotilla commander Karen Miller, come on up, and the rest of those good looking folks. For over a 100,000,000 for for over a 100,000,000 Americans, boating continues to be a popular recreational activity.

People are taking to the water and enjoying time together, boating, sailing, paddling, and fishing. During National Safe Boating Week, the US Coast Guard, along with federal, state, and local safe boating partners, encourages all boaters to explore and enjoy America's beautiful waters responsibly. Safe boating begins with preparation. The coast guard estimates that human air accounts for most boating accidents, and life jackets could prevent nearly seventy five percent of those fatalities. Engaging in basic boating safety procedures can help ensure that boaters on coastal, inland, and offshore waters stay safe throughout the season.

National Safe Boating Week is observed to highlight important life saving tips for recreational boaters, helping them have a safer, more fun experience out on the water year round. On average, six hundred and fifty people die each year in boating related accidents in The US. Seventy five percent are caused by drowning. The vast majority of these accidents are caused by human error, poor judgment, and not by the boat, equipment, or environmental factors. A significant number of boaters who lose their lives drowning each year would be alive today had they worn their life jackets.

Year round efforts should be made to promote continued boat safety. The National Safe Boating Campaign brings direct awareness in May as a reminder to always practice safe boating habits by the use of life jackets at all times while on the water. And now therefore be it proclaimed by the Pinellas County Board of County Commissioners that May 16 to the twenty second twenty twenty six be recognized as national safe boating week, certainly here in Pinellas County. Thank you for all that you do.

Thank you all. On behalf of my shipmates here and on behalf of the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary Flotilla eleven one, we thank you all for this very important official recognition today. We are considered the America's volunteer guardians. We all do all this for free. So moments like this is one of our paydays when we get this recognition.

We spent hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of hours promoting recreational boat safety, marine boat marine life education, and vessel safety checks to keep people safe on the water. As mentioned in this proclamation, the number one thing you can do is always wear your life jackets. The majority of accidents are preventable. If we can prevent the accidents, we can prevent the injuries and prevent the fatalities. Eighty seven percent of all boating fatalities did not have a life jacket.

Please don't let optimum biases bias make you a statistic, and please always wear your life jacket. If you would like a vessel safety check, go online, hit a button, we'll send someone out to your vessel. If you'd like to take a boating safety course, go online, register for one of our boating safety courses. Myself and many up here are the, experienced instructors. And if would you like to be one of us, HR is standing in line. We can hook you up with him later. Okay? But we thank you very much for this recognition. It is very near and dear to our hearts to keep the community safe when they're out enjoying recreational boating. Thank you.

Alright. Now we get to celebrate some of our own employees that do so much great work around this county. So our our next proclamation is for National Public Works Week. And so from our public works department, I'd like

to

invite Joey Thames. He's the environmental compliance manager up. Maxine Moore, floods floodplain specialist. William Redding, arborist two. Michael Jones, stormwater crew chief two. Tiffany Spallone, construction engineer inspector one. Irina Richeya, a data analyst. Annette Zaruki. Come on over here, folks, please. Survey and mapping support specialist, Lou Kainley, business intelligent analyst, Darby Bryant, transportation coordinator, Nick Pepodopoulos, signal timing engineering specialist two, and last but not least, our public works director, Kelly Levy.

Public works professionals focus on infrastructure, the natural environment, and services that are vital importance to sustainable and resilient communities and to the public health, quality of life, and well-being of the people of Pinellas County. These critical services could not be provided without the dedicated efforts of public works professionals who are engineers, scientists, managers, and employees at all levels of government and the private sector who are responsible for rebuilding, improving, and protecting our nation's transportation, storm water, coastal potable water, and solid waste systems, and other structures and facilities essential for our citizens. It is the it is the public interest for the citizens, civic leaders, and children in Pinellas County to gain knowledge it is in that, to gain knowledge of and to maintain a progressive interest and understanding of the importance of public works and public work programs in their respective communities. The 2026 marks the sixty sixth annual National Public Works Week sponsored by the American Public Works Association. And now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Pinellas County Board of County Commissioners that the week of May 17 through the twenty third twenty twenty six be recognized as National Public Works Week right here in Pinellas County.

Many thanks to all of you for the dedication and hard work, not only on your jobs, but other things that you get involved with certainly over the last two years. Amazing workers. So appreciate everything, and if we can all give them a round of applause, I'd appreciate it.

Well, you know me. I I love my team. They're absolutely fantastic. We've got everybody here from the folks who care for our our trees and our floodplains and our water quality. It's Michael. He is operating storm water equipment, keeping things running. We've got arenas crunching data. We've got survey. We've got data. Luke here saved this is gonna be for my budget presentation, but he saved us, a $140,000 this year. So I'm gonna talk about that. Darby and Nick and our transportation group. So I'm super, super proud of this team and the other 500 behind them back at the offices. So thank you so much for honoring us today. They're a special, special group of people.

Oh, thank you, sir. My pleasure.

Okay. Our final proclamation is for code enforcement officers appreciation week proclamation. And I'd like to invite up Kevin McAndrew, who's the director of building and development review services, Jude Reason, who's the division manager and housing official, Keith Vargas, operations manager, Shana Patrick, South County supervisor Carrie McDermott, Central County supervisor Eric Jewett Jewett, excuse me, North County supervisor Angela Dunn, office manager Diane DeVoe, magistrate officer, and Jamie Paget, contractor licensing investigator. Code code enforcement officers provide for the safety, health, and welfare of the citizens in the unincorporated areas of Pinellas County through the enforcement of building contractor licensing, zoning, housing, short term rentals, fire safety, environmental, and other codes and ordinances. Code enforcement officers are responsible for protecting and improving neighborhoods and the quality of lives of the residents and the communities of Pinellas County every day.

Assisted by support and code administrative staff, they strive to to provide the highest degree of professionalism and quality quality customer service to the public for the betterment of the community. Code enforcement officers are dedicated, well trained, and highly responsible individuals who take their jobs very seriously and are proud of their department and the local government within which they serve. The Florida Association of Code Enforcement has declared the first week of June be set aside by local government to honor and recognize their code enforcement officers. And now therefore be it proclaimed by the Pinellas County Board of County Commissioners that June 1 to 06/05/2026 be recognized as code enforcement officers appreciation week. And like I said to the other folks, many thanks for all of the work that you do every day.

But certainly the last few years the last couple of years have been especially tough. So thank you from the bottom of all of our hearts for that work. And now, Kevin, if you'll come on up first and foremost. Are Jude's gonna take it? Okay.

Thank you very much for having us today. I really appreciate it. Often this job can be a little thankless, and not everyone really gets to see the value of what we do. So we as a team collectively really appreciate everything that you've done for us and support over the past especially couple of years with all the challenges we face. I've selected, I've specifically selected this team to come up today and and be a part of this. This is our leadership team. They are often spending most of their time trying to to assist their staff, train their staff, and get their staff recognition. And often they don't they don't receive it. So I wanted to make sure that they were able to to join us today. Code enforcement obviously is a very challenging job, especially here in Pinellas County.

We have to navigate the entire County in between 24 separate municipalities. Our responsibility is nearly to one third of the County and nearly one third of the population. So it's a big job. And these guys do it very well. They're a 100% dedicated to the health, safety, welfare of all the citizens of the county. And again, we just really appreciate this recognition. They do a fantastic job for us and I want to thank them as well. So thank you.

Yep. I go. I go. Alright.

Okay. So from Memorial Day to National Safe Boating Week to National Public Works Week to Code Enforcement Officers Appreciation Week, I think we've got a lot of a lot of things to be thankful for here in Pinellas County for sure. Okay. We're going to go to citizens to be heard. And, commissioner, we have one in one instance, the person's gonna be speaking for five others. So I'll let you know when that that one comes up, and they'll get their ten minutes. Alright. First up, David Ballard Geddes junior.

Good afternoon, board. David Ballard Geddes junior. I live on Georgia Avenue in Palm Harbor. If you were to take our current government, dissolve it, and put it in your own back pocket, how would you go about doing that? Based on the declaration of independence, you would first declare legislation to be pretentious.

You would puppet out our current political structure and use this government as a medium. Then slowly, you would sell this government prudently to this government, dissolving this government, our current puppeted government, in a long train of usurpations as written in the declaration of independence, selling it in a thirty year fee simple title transfer reflective of statute three eighty point zero eight piece by piece dissolving our current government. For example, the county would sell parts of itself downtown for its for example, to a third party private developer, an LLC that they themselves might have a quid pro quo financial arrangement with at a later date and time. Or the city of Saint Petersburg would sell parts of itself to the Leelman development and allow such third party privatized development to formulate its own tax levy against the residents as based on statute one eighty point zero eight as the county dissolves its strongholds, self liquidating itself in statute 163.01, it's simultaneously giving rise to insurrecting a privatized form of political power, reflective of statute four zero three point sixty article four section h based on statute two one eight point four one five section 16 f birthing a third party form of political power as transferred in Pinellas County Home Rule Charter section 2.04 q.

In effect, the people in government are selling the property of government to themselves and their constituents, usurping the reins of government in a quid pro quo arrangement, privatizing government, and hoping for a new birth of freedom as individual privatized despotic jurisdictions as assumed under the fourteenth amendment. A government of tricksters by the tricksters recognized as unwarranted, again, in the declaration of independence. All of it is defined as artificial in statute three seven three point zero one nine section 15. Thank you.

Alright. Next up will be Greg Gardner. He wants ten minutes. So is John Welch in the room? Catherine Camo? She waved. Catherine.

Leave your hand when you leave your name closed.

Thank you. Joanne Marino? And Yvonne Bayo. Yes? Okay. Let me see. Okay. Come on up. My

name is Greg Gardner. I am a commission candidate for City Of Largo seat one. I'm gonna share two stories today out of a total of 60. This is to shed a light on how Largo treats our most vulnerable as it relates to the CRD area. Thank you, Joanne, Catherine, Lisa, Evan, and John for your attendance.

This first one is city of Largo versus Marie Adams case 21Dash002338. At the age of 72, Marie Adams buries her husband of fifty years and buries her only child eight months later. Stricken with grief and depression, Marie decides to sell everything and leave Jonestown, Pennsylvania. Marie's last journey would be Largo, Florida where she planned to live out her remaining years with her only grandson and three great grandchildren. Marie bought a beautiful four bedroom home site unseen in Largo, 610 4th Avenue Northwest.

Marie puts thirty thirty five percent down and takes out a large mortgage. She had two Social Security incomes, approximately twenty eight hundred hours per month. Within four short months after moving in, the grandson Keith Adams befriends a serial felon drug dealer named Jimmy Gerard who lives only two blocks away. Keith Adams was a habitual misdemeanor offender most of his life and an amputee from a farm accident when he was five years old. It was a lawnmower accident.

Keith worked odd jobs and managed to support three children. Within two months, Jimmy Gerard, his girlfriend Elizabeth C, and his sister Christine Hepperly move into the Adams home and take over. Jimmy uses the Adams home as his stash house while Elizabeth and Christine go to work swindling miss Adams over her entire bank account about $70. Within twelve months, Marie Adams becomes holed up in her bedroom. The power and water get cut off for nonpayment.

Largo PD makes several attempts to intercept. Miss Adams angrily repels all PD efforts. This is classic Stockholm syndrome, stage three dementia, and mental rumination. Largo solves this problem by manufacturing a code violation, then waits until the the daily code fine reaches 16,000, then forecloses on Marie Adams' constitutional homestead. Marie Adams had no clue, not at all, not one bit.

It was also peak COVID, and the date was December 2020. Keith Adams gets picked up on a controlled buy by undercover Largo PD, ultimately gets five years in prison. The grandkids go into foster care. Marie is left alone. Marie forgets to pay the mortgage and is six months in arrears.

Still clueless. Just prior to throwing, miss Adams to the curb, one of the grandkids sneaks back into grandma's house, and Largo Pedy finds a child hiding and throws Marie in jail for child abuse. Marie Adams is picked up by the niece, Lorene Brubaker, who lives in Cape Coral. Marie can take only worth her what she can carry. While the final outcome, was the best for Marie Adams, Jimmy, Elizabeth, and Christine never ever faced charges.

Jimmy was privileged because of his Albanian drug connections and his aunt's DA connections. Attorney Jody Rubai and miss Brubaker will give you honest testimony. Largo PD and Largo will not. Foreclosure attorney is Matt Widener. The second case is same it's the same thing. It's the same CRD area. This next case is a 70 row 71 year old man named Don Bourgeois. City of Largo versus DJB Rentals LLC. Case 21Dash003065. This case is racketeering and scheming to defraud on elders on an unimaginable level.

Don Bourgeois bought 570 Clearwater Lago Road North, just a couple blocks away from Marie Adams and Jimmy Gerard, as a retirement income project and to care for his 88 year old mother. The property is in the original CRD area. We said that. Don removes all the drug dealers and starts rebuilding the entire eight apartment complex. Units get renovated and new tenants move in.

In 2015, Bourgeois gets written up for code violations. All major violations get resolved in six months. Largo waits six years. Then in 2021, Largo claims that the owner did nothing to correct the code violations. Without prior notice, Largo decides to foreclose on Bourgeois' property, claiming Don did nothing and owes the city $550,000 in code fines.

Largo denies Bourgeois any ability to cure the outstanding minor violations and to seek fine forgiveness like everyone else gets. Bjorn hires attorney Ben Hillard. Hillard is denied every element of procedural due process. No interrogatories, no depositions, no fact finding. Classic kangaroo court process.

Two years and $80,000 in legal bills, city attorney Matt Widener lies to the courts and says the building is a health health and safety hazard. Judge Ramburger approves the foreclosure. Bourgeois puts up a $50,000 stay bond to prevent foreclosure and seeks appeal. During the appeal's timeline, Largo makes Bourgeois believe he can save his property if he does more repairs, completely unrelated to the original code violations. Bourgeois dumps another $100,000 into the property plus 30,000 35,000 attorney fees to appease the city.

The appeal court appeals court rules in favor of the city and says, quote, Bijuan had thirty days to appeal back in 2015, Florida statute one six two dot one one. Too bad, so sad, you sad sad. The appeals court then further states that the fines are

not

excessive. Largo forecloses without offering Bourgeois any resolution. This property sells for only 99,000 at the auction block. Mayor Woody Brown is upset his windfall did not materialize. So the city sues Bourgeois for 450,000 deficiency, thinking Bajuan owned another Marco Island property in this same name, d j b rentals l l c.

Hillard proves there was no deficiency because the property has a value no less than 900,000. Largo failed to protect its lane judgment by not placing a minimum bid at the auction, but refuses to look at its own stupidity. Largo hastily decides to keep Bijouan's $50,000 stay bond with the help of corrupt judge Ramsburger. Bijouan, now 74, lost his entire life savings of 1,300,000 over a sick joke, and I mean it. And I brought him into, the county commission to write a plea No one cared.

The appeals court was rock solid up until Largo got into the code for profit bracket. I'm gonna come back, and I'm gonna share two more cases just as bad in the next commission meeting with my friends. This time, these two cases will make you sick. The sheriffs get involved, and they intervene on my behalf. You will see humanity and unimaginable intervention that'll literally make you float on a cloud.

Incredible what they did. And they actually shut down this racket. My plea to you, don't give Citi a damn dime until the monsters, there's nine left, are removed from city hall. Each one playing a hand in this scheme to defraud. I can tell you right now, I am built to fight monsters because I am a monster, but I am the good kind.

I fight bad monsters. Commissioner Wiecki, thank you for what you did at the library. The library you're awesome. The library is a symptom of a greater problem. And your courage, your fortitude to do right is appreciated by a lot of people. It the city is toxic and sick, and it's got failed leadership. And, yes, Woody Brown, this is him. He came up here and he cried. A person Woody Brown's not capable of empathy because this assault is times 60. I am the sixtieth person.

He's going after my rental property. It's not a good idea. He just plugs forward, and I can't say enough. I can't wait to share the story what these guys did because you will fall over. I wanna say thank you for your time, and see you in two weeks. Bye.

Kelly Lynn. Kelly Lynn.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Kelly Lynn. I am here today to make the commission aware of cruel and extreme things happening in Pinellas County in our family courts by certain judges.

Ma'am, hold on. What is the noise?

I believe I believe the original the previous speaker had left his phone. I think that's his timer.

Are we good? You wanna start over, please. Thank you. Sorry about that.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Kelly Lynn, and I am here to today to make the commission aware of cruel and extreme things happening in Pinellas County and our family courts by certain judges. I understand that you cannot overturn court rulings, and I am not asking you to intervene in a judicial decision. I am here because I believe my family experienced serious failures in a process that should protect children and families, and I want citizens to be aware of how important their votes in the August eighteenth election is to Pinellas County in voting out judge Elizabeth Jack and voting in Axalis Garcia. I believe that actions occurring during my case before judge Elizabeth Jack represented extreme abuse of discretion and deprived my family of fundamental fairness and due process.

There are numerous examples of abuse of discretion in my case, but one example is my son, who's now 10, was born with a heart condition and underwent open heart surgery, and I was the parent that took him to his appointments. The cardiologist said he needs to be seen if he experiences chest pain. So on 04/23/2025, the school called and and said my son was experiencing chest pain and appeared tired at 10:30 in the morning. Therefore, I took my son to All Children's to be seen. The next day, judge Jack allowed a secret hearing with a party to the action where she gave her personal cell number and removed my parental rights of medical decision making without warrant or reason, without due process, then desealed the records where I had to fight to get them unsealed.

I further contend that records and proceedings were sealed in a manner that prevented transparency and prevented me from understanding, what had occurred in my own case. Due process requires notice and meaningful opportunity to be heard. A parent cannot defend against information that they cannot see. I believe inappropriate direct channels of communication existed, including the sharing of, you know, the personal cell number, with a party connected to proceedings, creating serious concerns regarding impartiality and fairness. Within a week, judge Jack wrongly suspended my time sharing without any evidence of harm, neglect, or abuse.

And then later, she took away all contact claiming that I told my son I loved him too much. Documents. My son and I are close and share a healthy, loving relationship. We haven't seen or spoken to each other in well over a year now. This has caused us both pain and harm.

Prior to judge Jack's rulings, my son attended the same school from kindergarten through completion of third grade last May, where he was in a gifted program and on the honor roll. After her rulings of having his mother and the parent he was closest with wrongly ripped from his life. My son was placed on accelerating doses of Prozac, was behaving like a child in trouble and destabilizing, and he has partaken in self harming behaviors, unable to attend regular school, and many other horrible things of a of a child clearly acting out.

Thanks, Kelly. Thank you. Marco Notarani. Your name, and you'll have three minutes, please.

Good afternoon. My name is doctor Marco Notariani, and I'm a proud Italian and American dual citizen. Sixteen years ago, I came to this country for my graduate studies. I immediately fell in love with America and chose to build my life and raise my family here, embracing three unliberal rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Today, I stand before you commissioners to expose judge Jack prejudices and biases against me.

My children were taken from me twice through emergency ex party orders signed by judge Jack. These order were issues based solely on my ex wife unsupported allegations. There was never an evidence of abuse, none whatsoever. This complete lack of evidence was independently independently confirmed by the guardian alitem, the children therapist, and the parenting coordinator, all highly qualified professionals appointed by judge Jack herself. Importantly, neither I nor my attorney had ever met these professionals before they conducted their evaluations.

I have no criminal records. I'm a hardworking professional who undergoes continuous background checks because I also work with lots of federal national security agencies. Despite this and despite a clear finding of her own court appointed experts, judge Jack chose to believe nothing but her says from my ex wife. When the neutral professional provided testimony that did not align with her view, she simply terminated their involvement in the case. I was left with no choice but to file a detailed motion to accuse her.

In that motion, I carefully documented her bias pattern, her illogical decisions, and her failure to follow the law. After reviewing the evidence of her prejudice, I successfully had Jack removed from my case, But the damage was already done. This process cost me over $200,000, and far worse, it traumatized my children. My children now need to see regularly a therapist because they live in constant fear of being removed again from my care for no reason. Judge Jack did not apply the law.

Instead, she imposed her personal opinion and displayed a disturbing need for power and control. A judge who repeatedly ignores evidence, silence neutral professionals, issues unfunded emergency orders, and causes serious harm to children is simply not fit to sit on the bench. Our families and our children deserve better. I really hope judge Jack will not be reelected and will have Oxalis Garcia elected. They deserve our families and children. They deserve judges who uphold the law with fairness, impartiality, and not personal bias. God bless America, and god bless you.

Thank you, Marco. Alan Alan Tripp. State your name, and you'll have three minutes.

My name is Alan Tripp. Can I begin? Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Alan Curtis Tripp. I am a Pinellas County father and a clinical mental health counseling graduate student, and I have never harmed my daughter mentally or physically.

And I have no criminal history or violent history. Over for over two years, my daughter Abigail, who turns seven next month, has been kept from me by orders from judge Elizabeth Marshall Jack in the sixth judicial circuit. In that time, Abigail has missed two birthdays, two father's days, a fiftieth anniversary of my parents, family weddings, and a court, several court approved visits with me. I recently requested therapy for her about five times or six times, seven times continually. Every request was denied or ignored.

Before this, prior judges found me to be a healthy, stable, fit parent. I had primary daily custody of Abigail for four years. Under judge Jack, that changed dramatically. Multiple professionals, doctor Keating, Sherry Linger, Michelle Donnelly, Rachel Coleman testified that I was mentally fit with no addictions and no dangerous behavior. Yet the court labeled me as unstable, a substance abuser, and angry despite every evaluation showing otherwise.

In 12/23/2025, the order called my speech bizarre. The visitation supervisor mocked my Christian faith and the cross necklace I gave my daughter. This raises serious concerns about my religious and it raises serious concerns about religious and disability discrimination related to my ADHD. The court also ignored nine months of clean visitation reports, excused other parties no shows that I had to pay for, and disregarded community letters of support. On 04/13/2026, I filed a motion to attend a family gathering with my daughter on April 18.

The court did not rule before the date passed. Afterwards, an unsigned order denied my motion as moot and closed the case even though my appeal is still active. This is especially troubling because judge Jack admitted on the record after this after a disqualification motion in 2024 that she should not have done that, and I quote her on that regarding a similar case closure. Now she is doing it again. This case has come as a at a inexcusable cost.

My daughter lives ten minutes away from me, but be she's been separated from my me, my her grandparents who had to mortgage their house in order to fund our legal fight just to be in Abigail's life. This shows you their sacrifice. I wanna speak for just ten more seconds if I can. Ahead. My daughter deserves better, and I wanna encourage all of you here today in Pinellas County that every child deserves their father and their mother too that are fit. Thank you. And I just wanna say thank you very much

Thank you, Alan.

Hearing me and realizing that there's serious families across the board that are here today that have same problems. Thank you very much.

Archie Call.

Well, after hearing everybody else speak before me, my what I'm bringing before you seems what I'm bringing before you seems inconsequential, quite frankly.

But Introduce yourself, please.

Yes. My name is Archie Call. Good afternoon, commissioners. I'm a Clearwater Beach resident for more than a decade, a condo owner who cannot install a home charger, and a father of a special needs child. Back on March 5, the board voted to decommission approximately 14 parks, including the parking, the one right around the corner here.

It's about 28 EV stations. The the reasoning behind that was financial. At the end of the day, I found three private public partnership companies I'd like for you guys to reconsider before they get decommissioned on the twenty first. There's also decommissioning expense for each one of those. And I've actually found a company that would be more than willing to do a public private partnership with a good reputation doing it with other cities and states across Florida and South Carolina.

So I'm just doctor Flowers responded to my email. I know you have transportation. I just think it'd be going backwards. We used that that station living on the beach there regularly, but there's stations, you know, up and down, you know, all of the Pinellas County parks, including the one literally that I'm parked at while I'm talking to you today. So I I saw the strategic plan for year twenty five through thirty.

There's four or five points on that plan. I also saw a doctor emailed you guys who sits on a committee. So I think, you know, we I've just asked that you guys look for a sixty to ninety day extension pause decommissioning these and explore the public private options that I've found and others. That's all that's all I'm here to ask for today.

Thank you. Alright. Justin Heller.

You guys actually should all have a copy of this. My name is Justin Heller. Excuse me. So who here knows someone that wakes up and says, I wish my rent were higher? No one. The higher rents and higher consumer costs are exactly what happens when essential industries like towing are pushed to the breaking point. Unfortunately, commissioners, you have all been bad stewards to our industry. We help keep apartment communities, HOAs, rental properties compliant with fair housing laws. We remove unauthorized vehicles tied to lease violations, abandoned cars, criminal activity, fire code violations, and code enforcement issues that can expose property owners and ultimately their residents to major costs and lawsuits. Lawsuits.

We help protect Pinellas County residents from unsafe communities, illegal activity, rising housing costs caused by compliance failures. When a stolen vehicle is dumped in a neighborhood, we handle it. When a property faces violations or lawsuits, we help prevent that. We are not a luxury service. We are a part of this county's public safety infrastructure.

For years, our industry has been treated like an afterthought. Some of you may remember back before I was back before you in 2019 asking for help. Since then, I've attended every roundtable, every consumer compliance discussion, every meeting where we were told solutions were coming. But after years of discussions, promises, and recommendations, meaningful relief still has not happened. Last week alone, my company had a $15,000 fuel bill for one week.

Insurance premiums in this industry have increased 30 to 50%. Equipment costs are up. Labor costs are up. Every operational expense has increased dramatically. Yet towing companies in Pinellas are expected to wait years for rate adjustments while other every while other every industry adapts to inflation in real time. If food costs rise, restaurants adjust prices. If construction costs rise, contractors adjust pricing. Towing companies are forced to fight through years of bureaucracy just to survive. That is not sustainable. Small operators are already shutting down because they cannot absorb the rising costs, regulatory scrutiny, legal exposure, and constant delays any longer.

The consequence will not just hurt towing companies, it's going to hurt consumers. Longer response times, fewer available operators, reduced service coverage, more strain on law enforcement, property managers, and ultimately, Pinellas County residents. During the pandemic, towing professionals are classified as essential workers because society depends on us functioning. Our employees are Pinellas County residents too. They deserve raises, homes, and futures just like workers in every other industry. We're not asking for special treatment. We are asking for fair treatment. I'm asking this commission to stop delaying, stop ignoring recommendations, and finally support our small businesses.

Thank you, Justin. Maroon Johnson junior.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Morrison Johnson junior. I, my residence is 545 52nd Street South in Saint Petersburg. I stand before you today disappointed and in disbelief that once again we're here discussing the same issues that we've been discussing with the board since 2017. I'm I'm not only a constituent in Pinellas County, but I'm a former owner of two family owned business two family owned towing companies, Elvis Towing and Transport and No Tow Motorcycle Towing, serving in this county since 1976.

Like many of the towers in this room, we've operated for twenty four hours, seven days a week through hurricanes, holidays, even COVID even COVID as essential workers. Yet by the end of twenty twenty four, we were forced to close both of our companies. The issues we are discussing today play a major role in the outcome. I've also stood before this board for years representing the towing industry as the first vice president and now the president for the professional wrecker operators of Florida, the state towing association since 1977. The towing industry is part of the public safety infrastructure in this county.

We clear we clear crashes for law enforcement, remove disabled and abandoned vehicles and vessels, assist motorists, and force parking for for our businesses and residential communities. The the and respond day day and night twenty four seven. We are and the we are the automotive and marine garbologist for Pinellas County, handling the problems that nobody else wants to deal with. But unlike many essential services, we are not governed govern government funded or subsidized. We're privately owned small businesses carrying massive operations costs while being heavily regulated.

Since 2017, the towing industry has acted in good faith. We have attended every meeting and provided every document requested and supplied detailed information on truck costs, insurance increases, maintenance expenses, fuel labor, and rate, comparison for counties throughout the state of Florida. We have done everything that was asked of us to help make this process that much simpler and transparent. Yet after years, we have been told rates were being reviewed, rates were being addressed, and the relief was coming. But but nothing meaningfully happened while our costs continue to rise.

At this point, this this stops being a delayed and becomes a failure on stewardship. Pinellas County has not been a good steward to the towing industry that it serves that serves it. Meanwhile, our industry continues to evolve.

Thank you. Johnny Wicks. Johnny Wicks.

How are doing today? My name is Johnny Wicks, and I'm the founder and CEO of We Expose Monsters Media Group. I'm speaking today under my First Amendment rights regarding matters of public importance affecting children, families, disabled citizens, and constitutional protections in Pinellas County. These children are innocent, their voices matter, their families matter. Family court proceedings are civil proceedings, not criminal prosecutions.

Yet many families report prolonged separation from their children, financial devastation, homelessness, crushing debt, and procedural burials they believe barriers they believe deny meaningful due process. No proceeding affecting fundamental rights should occur without due process of law. With everything already publicly documented in this county involving oversight failures, vulnerable individuals, and declining public confidence, these concerns should not be ignored. Taxpayers are funding these systems while many families believe they are simultaneously losing access to their children, homes, finances, and constitutional protections. Some families are becoming homeless homeless.

Some are living out of their vehicles. Some disabled citizens cannot realistically navigate these systems at all. We are not asking for favoritism. We are asking for transparency transparency, accountability, meaningful access to justice and protection of innocent children and vulnerable families. History judges government by how they protect the vulnerable. I judge governments by how big of pieces of shit they are. And you, friends, are pieces of shit. Thank you for your time. Jessica

Saxton.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Jessica Saxton. I'm a civil rights advocate and litigator. Out of all 25 or so of you sitting in here, I've only seen one person that has shown complete respect to the citizens and the constituents that are speaking, and it's this gentleman right here. And I appreciate that, sir, and I see that.

We have a big issue here in Pinellas County. And for the last couple of months, we, meaning a citizen led investigation group, has been collecting evidence and data by way of open source intelligence on your judges, your sheriff's department. Many of the individuals that spoke today actually have nothing to do with us, but after this meeting, they will. And they'll be turning over the evidence that they have, and we'll be collecting that. And you can laugh if you want, but it's not going to stop us from continuing to collect the data.

Our families are being destroyed and as a matter of fact, have several judges that are purposefully, in my opinion, destroying these families. Judge Labruzzo, Pollock, Ellis, Circus, Burgess, Campbell, judge Jack, of course, Mathi, and judge Gross who is retired. Ladies and gentlemen, just because a judge retires doesn't mean that they get to run off into the sunset when they have deprived citizens of their rights that are secured and protected by the constitution. And every person in this state is under federal law whether you like it or not. There's two laws in particular that I would like to draw to your attention today and that is 18 USC two forty one and two forty two.

Two forty two is the deprivation of rights under the color of law. Two forty one is the conspiracy to deprive of rights. You all, as the commissioners, you continue to pay individuals such as your sheriff's department who will aid in a bed in the kidnapping, unlawful kidnapping of children by way of CPS. You send a sheriff out with CPS to aid in a bed in an unlawful kidnapping of a child through a system, that is a deprivation of rights. That is conspiracy to deprive of rights.

And then if you look at under 18 USC two forty one, in the event that kidnapping occurs where there is a deprivation of rights, there are three punishments. One is fines, one is prison, and the other is capital. It's a capital punishment for that crime. I would like to encourage all of you to study these statutes, learn, and understand that you are under the federal law whether you like it or not. And please do your due diligence, do your duty, and ma'am, can continue to laugh, but you will be receiving a notice of liability in the very near future. Thank you so much.

Skyler Stevens.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Skyler Stevens. Eight point three out of every 100 children are moved by their from their home by the Pinellas County Sheriff's Department. That's the number that was reported publicly by the Tampa Times in 2021. I wonder what that is today.

I'm here to raise serious concerns today regarding procedural fairness, economic barriers to justice, and declining puff public confidence within family court proceedings affecting Pinellas County families. The Pinellas County taxpayers, they help fund those courthouse facilities. They fund all the infrastructure, all the administrative operations, the security, the public court access systems. Because of that public investment, concerns surrounding transparency and meaningful access to justice are matters of legitimate public concern. I now have documentations of multiple publicly filed family court proceedings involving allegations of repeated motions for judicial disqualifications, barriers to appellate review, excessive transcript and record preparation cost, reliance on subjective impressions rather than objective evidence.

These procedure irregularities and severe restrictions on these families believe we're unsupported by sufficient evidence. Article one section 21 of the Florida constitution states that the court shall be open to every person for redress of an injury. Yet many working class families believe they cannot meaningfully access that. This is affecting their parental rights and family integrities. Regardless of anyone's position on individual cases, the public confidence suffers when citizens believe that the judicial proceedings are financially inaccessible, the oversight systems lack transparency, or meaningful review is unattainable for ordinary families.

I ask this commission to acknowledge the growing public concern regarding family court transparency and the access to justice issues, communicate these concerns to the appropriate state legislative oversight bodies. This issue this issue is larger than any one litigant, one judge, or one case. We need public confidence in this system. If I can see this from 800 miles away, you should be able to see it where you work. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Aaron Wauther.

Good afternoon. My name is Aaron Watkins. I'm the president of a one recovery. We have three locations here in Pinellas County. I am here today asking the board to become better stewards to the towing industry.

For years, our industry has felt ignored, overregulated, and treated like an inconvenience instead of a necessary public safety partner. This commission has been a bad steward to our industry and is starting to affect consumers. Rotation Towers are the companies responding at all hours of the night to major accidents, disabled vehicles, roadway hazards, DUI crashes, fatalities, emergency situations that law enforcement depends on us to handle quickly and professionally. When traffic is backed up on US 19 or I 275, we are the ones clearing the roadway to our your constituents can get to work, get home and to their families, or get to a hospital safely. We are not asking for favors.

We are asking for fairness. Our operational costs have skyrocketed. Fuel, insurance, equipment, labor, compliance costs, everything has increased dramatically over the last several years. Insurance alone has increased 30 to 50% for many operators. Yet while every other industry adjust pricing with inflation, towing companies are forced into years of waiting, hearings, delays, bureaucracy just to request request a reasonable rate adjustment.

That is not good stewardship of an essential industry, and the consequences are already showing. Smaller operators are smaller operators are closing their doors. Experienced drivers are leaving the industry. Companies are struggling to maintain staffing and equipment while continuing to meet the demands of law enforcement and the public. If this continues, consumers will feel it.

Longer wait times, fewer fewer available trucks, slower roadway clearance, reduced coverage during emergencies. Essent essential industries cannot survive if they are not continuously constrained while cost rise around them. We need this commission to recognize towing as the public safety partner it is, stop delaying necessary action, and start being better stewards to the small businesses that help keep Pinellas County moving every single day. Thank you.

Michael

Roberts.

Hi, everyone. I didn't expect to be up here today. I actually came here to support a lot of other people here who have been abused by judge Elizabeth Jack. I don't know if any of you guys have gone through any divorces and, felt like you weren't being treated fair, but you need to look into this woman. You truly do.

And if you don't, shame on you. My name is, Michael Roberts. My complaint arises from, from an entry of final judgment and dissolution of marriage, from judge Elizabeth Jack, which started in April 2022, still continues today. And, on 12/12/2024, And I wanna give you my case number. Case number 22Dash003672DashFD and related injunction cases, preceding cases, number 24Dash001959FD.

I'm the former owner of Fresco's Waterfront Bistro Downtown Saint Pete. I started it in 2003 and owned it until 2014. I also am the founder of the Mennoy House Bed and Breakfast on the Water downtown Saint Petersburg, which I opened in 1997 through, 2020 or 2006. Currently, I am a health care executive. I'm a veteran advocate.

I, am a crisis geriatric care manager and the owner of Florida's Choice Health Care. I serve communities and veterans and patients, throughout Pinellas County. And, I stand for you to in front of you today because I believe that the public deserves to understand the devastating human consequences that can occur when a judge like Elizabeth Jack, family court judge in Pinellas County proceedings, loses sight of evidentiary discipline, due process, and balance. And this is not about revenge on judge Jack. It is to get her off the bench.

This notice is about holding her accountable, transparency, and protecting future families from suffering the same destruction my family experienced inside the Pinellas County film family court system under Elizabeth Jack. And why I'm speaking to you publicly against, judge Jack is is for more than four years, my family has lived through repeated Department of Children family investigations, seven of them. And then I had 19 investigations, from the police department. This is not just me and my children, 19 of them. We had injunction proceedings, forensic interviews.

These the you had guardian end items that weren't certified that were trying to tell my family what to do, which I had removed. I can't believe that that three minutes is up. I just want you to look at my case, and I want you to take into careful consideration who you allow on the bench to destroy families. I was in jail twice for wishing my son happy birthday with his little brother. My two little boys have been separated, biological brothers separated by judge Jack. And I just won my injunction. I just won my appeal. This is what's wrong.

Greg Pound, Largo, Florida. I'd like everyone to see this poster if you can get it up for me. I'd appreciate it as soon as you can so I can get this done. What we have in this county is it is it here? Am I is there a reason why it's not done?

Okay. Here we are. This is this is Robert Guatieri, Scott Swoop, and Rice, and Greg Pound. These are three attorneys. Robert Guatieri is an attorney. He illegally comes to this debate for sheriff in in his uniform according to the Florida's our our Florida election laws. Here it comes in uniform and so and and nothing's done. So what we have is a massive problem. Now I wanna read this to you. It says in 1949 in 1949, the branch judicial okay.

Here we go. In 1949, Florida Bar was unified and became part of the Supreme Court and made every state member, lawyer, a person belonging to the judicial branch of government. Article two verse five says no person belonging to one branch shall exercise power, in any of the other two branches. So Robert Guatieri was Jim Coates' attorney. Now I've dealt with this twenty years of this child molestation stuff you guys been doing to people in Pinellas County.

One other folder here I went up so we will see it. This one here you need to look at. This is what this Robert Guatieri is bringing into our county. He wants to bring in the military to take over the sheriff's department. And these guys have been trained these guys have been trained to kill people. And it says the constitution, the basic principle of the constitution is against using our military. It says using citizens at for civil law enforcement is is is what they use, not the military. And so he's got this poster going out all over trying to trying to recruit the military into our sheriff's department. So what we've got is we got a system in this county where they've been raping families for over twenty years. This is why I ran for sheriff.

This is my second election when I ran with, against Jim Coates. He had me beat up, thrown in jail, all this stuff just for exposing. And all these families are just hundreds of families. I had 96 videos on YouTube. You can't find one of them now of people telling you what they did to them, their children, and their families. And you guys are new, but the county commissioners, all you guys you need to you need to get Robert Guatieri out of office. The guy's not supposed to be there. He's an attorney. No matter what AI says, it's illegal for him in the state of Florida to be the sheriff. So what we've got is a a major problem with corruption and using our families, destroying our families.

We have a suicide epidemic in this county right now. Men over 50 years old, white males are killing themselves at an epidemic proportion, and they don't know how to stop it. Then two months ago, you had the in this county only, Pinellas County, out of the state of Florida. Then you have children. Last the last two meeting two months ago, you had all these young people

Thanks, Greg.

Suicide.

Thank you.

Highest drug rate.

Thank you. Do something, you guys. Thank you.

Yep. Do something about it. That's what we like.

And just just just want everybody to know, thank you for coming today and ex giving us your comments on this sounds like horrible stories that you've got behind you. I'd no. And I just just wanna make sure that you understand that this body doesn't govern anything that you all are asking to be done. I wanted the attorney I want hold on. Hold hold on. I wanted the attorney to to to weigh in on it and just to make sure that your expectations are where they need to be before you leave. That's all. So go ahead.

Thank you, mister chair. You are correct. This body has no authority over the judges whatsoever. That would be the judicial qualifications commission. I will say I heard somebody suggest that you all appointed one of the judges referenced here today.

This body has no authority to appoint judges, county judges, circuit judges, any level. Appointments for judicial positions are all done by the governor through a judicial nominating process that involves quite a few people other than the governor, but the governor gets that ultimate decision. The things that you've heard about today are appropriately addressed through the court system, not here in the county commission chambers. I will make reference that your participation guidelines prohibit political campaigning, which in my opinion extends to vote against this person. And it's not just the judges that we've heard today.

Some other folks showed up for some city positions talking about running for office. That is wholly inappropriate to take a place here in this forum. It violates your rules of participation. The clapping, the yelling also violates your rules of participation as do any defamatory comments made about any person. I will add for the record, judges are unable to defend themselves because they may not speak about cases before them and they may not even do it when they are campaigning. At least one of the judges mentioned here today is campaigning.

I'll leave it with that.

Was group that you said that they can direct their complaints to

Judicial Qualifications Commission.

Okay.

Alright. Thank you. And thank you all for being here today. Appreciate it. Go ahead, commissioner Peters.

So I I wanna talk about the Towers. And I've talked to Barry about it. And I'm sure Barry has a comment about it. And I might wanna wait and hear what he has to say. But since I got here in 2019, we've kicked the can down the road. And at only one time, I believe, we gave them something and said, and next year we'll give you something else. And then that next year came and we didn't do it and we didn't do it and we didn't do it. And towers are first responders. Historically, before the fire department took over cutting people out of the cars, the towers were the first responders that cut people out of cars. And if we lose those tours, and I personally know of two, well, three towing businesses small that went out of business because they simply can't afford it.

We gave every one of our first responders. We gave our paramedics money. We gave our police officers money. We, our EMS folks, we have given them money, but these first responders, and they are, have not I feel we what they said when they said we weren't good stewards, I have to agree. And and when it comes to apartment buildings, what they wrote in here, and I won't go over all of it because I have very long notes about this, but everything they wrote in here is true.

They're preventing crime and they're preventing homelessness, people living in cars, in apartment building parking lots, and all kinds of other things. They are important part of our infrastructure and I think we I talked to Barry, we had a minimum. Give them the other things they need if you wanna wait on that lawsuit that seems to be holding this up, which I disagree with. It is state law. Barry knows my position on this.

I don't know why we think we can just decide that we don't like state state law and not give them what the state has said they should be able to get. So I think at a minimum, we should give them all of the increases that we talked about. We should give them the fuel surcharge and we shouldn't wait. And that's just my and you've heard it already before, so this is not new. He and I have gone through this, but I feel really passionate about this because since I got here since 2019, we have kicked this can down the road far too long and and they deserve better. And they shouldn't be losing their businesses because we have not kept up for them like we've kept up with for others. So so I'm hoping that there's agreement on this commission and we finally will will bring them where they need to be.

Thank you. Did you have any comments or you guys Well,

for the commission, we briefed you one zero one and we talked individually to you about the situation. Obviously, you have a body of fees, and there's different types of fees that go to and the reason this belongs over in consumer protection is because it goes to our residents, goes to our visitors that are towed. So the question is what's a fair and reasonable rate for that? So you had fees that we were looking at that were that we were willing to bring forward when there was a state law change that added an additional $250 fee to that. It was done at the state level.

It wasn't done at us, but we looked at that as a body of a collective fees that are paid by the consumer. And so at that point, we said, let's wait and see how this plays out in Hillsborough County, which is where it resides. So it's on appeal right now. I think when staff briefed you, we said let's wait, for the appeal. That was before we saw the increase in gas prices. I mean, to be that that I I'm sure that along with everything else has an impact. But But again, that $250 fee is paid by residents. It's paid by our visitors. We've seen letters coming in from people have their car taken, and it was $500 later before they got their car out. You know?

And so the question's what's reasonable. We're be it's up to this body. If you want us to look at it and advance it and bring something forward while we're waiting on the appeal, we can do that. Our staff recommendation was to wait and address it all at once. If you wanna bifurcate the issues and take if you give us direction, we'd be happy to look at it. But that's kinda where we're at at this point.

And just to add, there's only one other county. There's only two counties in the entire state that are holding back $250.

We're holding that back.

We're not

We're charging it.

No. We're taking our fees and deducting it as your proposal.

No. We're just not advancing fee increases.

We're not advancing yes. I know it. But we're the only ones. There's two in the entire state. So 65 other counties are not holding back. They're not holding their their fees back. And you're waiting on a lawsuit, which I only one current county, not three, not five, only one. So we're the only two that are doing this because we don't like the state law, which I don't think that's up to us. I think the state chose to do that. The state chose to do that.

But I I I you know, fuel surcharge as a minimum, we should not be holding back and making them wait. And when you don't pay them and they're struggling to make men's eat meat, then then then sometimes you get bad actors. And so I just we have kicked this can down the road for so many years and it's just not okay. And that's my opinion. And I hope you all agree and I hope we can give them some resolution really soon and not kick this can down the road waiting for another lawsuit.

Well, and again, I think what you said and what Barry said corrected a couple of things. So I wanna make sure that we get all the facts out again so we can take a look at this. Barry, when do we have another workshop? July. Let's see. We is it like the tenth or something like that? June?

First work session, July 16. Not July. June. June, we have our budget information session. Right.

Nothing before that commission meeting.

We don't have a workshop. We have we have no additional workshops until July 16. And then starting in April, we get back on schedule.

So at the very least, then we can put it on the agenda for the that commission meeting in June to revisit, to look at it. I mean, that's that's when we can make

For the July workshop? Is that what you're asking? For the July 16?

I was

talking about the June. We have we don't have a workshop for June. No. I'm talking about the com the meeting. Oh, the commission meeting?

Yeah.

Oh, I see. For the commission meeting, you you have a June 16 board commissioner meeting.

Is there any issues, Jewel, with getting it on there that quickly?

No. That you can have the work session anytime as far as advancing an ordinance.

Commission meeting.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, if it's an ordinance, we have to have enough time to

Yeah. If if you're talking about an ordinance, there there's a lot more that goes into that because we we have to advertise, we have to have staff recommendation, and review that. If you're asking that we have a discussion with the commission, we could we could do that at that meeting.

When's the first time we could bring it for action?

I need to get direction from the commission on what you wanna do. Mister And chair

earliest we can bring it forward to the commission. If we had if we brought it to the commission meeting on the sixteenth of this month or June, excuse me, to discuss, when would it

be Then then we would have to advertise and put our ordinance prepare an ordinance for a future meeting.

An ordinance has to be legally advertised for ten days, and I'm talking with our our clerk here, the times once those advertisements twenty one days in advance, which includes the ten day notice period. So we would need at least three weeks to make sure we got the ad done in addition to getting an ordinance drafted and, you know, the proper notices to

Right. Post.

So that could happen July, August.

Yeah. It'd be August. It'd be probably early August.

I would suspect you you all only have one meeting in July, I believe. We do. Just slows things down just a little bit. I know that you have an awful lot of budget sessions coming up here soon. And certainly, if we're gonna go forward, we wanna make sure that we do it right and comply with the process.

That's why we're talking about it.

I I honestly, I think August is more realistic. Okay.

So August meeting and we'd have we'd make that decision in the June meeting when we have our discussion. That'll be enough time to do something by the first meeting in August.

I will double check and look at some timelines, but I would think so.

So are you want oh, I I guess I need some direction on what you want. Are you wanting us to bring the some of the rate ideas back to you for consideration for discussion purposes at the June meeting? Is that what you're requesting? Is that

I wanna have discussion about whether or not there's there's interest in this body to accelerate and do something as soon as possible to address some of the concerns that have been discussed today.

If that's what the majority of the body Okay. Is asking for.

That's what I wanted to know, and I'll ask the rest So not not to worry. Yes. Commissioner Flowers.

Thank you, mister chairman. If I recall when I first got on the commission, there was a great conversation and I thought we did something by way of increasing what it was that we were paying Yeah. It was the the little tow truck drivers because I know they and the reason I remember that so is because I had made the comment, None of them came to talk to me, and this is my first rodeo on the commission, and I'm learning, you know, just what we do and how we do it. So that's why I just remember it was, like, the first set of meetings that we had when I came on board. I don't mind communicating this, about this.

I think I mentioned this when we kinda brought it up before. I don't mind talking about, increase in fuel cost. The county has an increase in fuel cost. You know, everybody does, unfortunately. My concern was when I was looking at all of those, what I felt were overlapping administrative costs. Right. Because if you're charging an administrative fee, you have one person that's towing, he's doing the towing, you're charging an administrative fee and you're giving that person credit for the admin fee and you're also doing an administrative fee for the person who's working in the office the next day. So I just had a concern about some of the overlapping. So if we are this is for me. I'll go back and look through my notes, You know?

But if we are gonna have a discussion, I just wanna know, are we only talking primarily about the fuel cost piece and then we'll take up some of the other parts later? Or is it that you're desiring that we look at all of it and make a decision or or share what we would like to to see going forward. So I just wanna be clear so I can, you know, read up and become as Yeah. I would imagine. Educated as possible. Yeah.

I would imagine if people wanna discuss it, that everything's on the table.

Okay.

So the and the you know, just for clarity, that's we we did raise them in 2023. Okay? So it hasn't been since 2017. Alright? Just and so they they did get a rate increase. Many of the other counties don't charge the administrative fees. So it's really hard to get an apples to apples, that $250 administrative fee. So you've got to look at the that's the reason we're trying to look at the body of the impact to the consumer. And so if you want us, we'll bring all the fees forward and have a discussion about that.

Anybody else wanna weigh in?

I'll add something. In 2023, we did that. We only gave him a partial and said if you next year, we'll do it more and the next year never happened.

And then next year, they got the $250 administrative

But we follow through on what we what we said we would do is my point. As we said, the next year come back and we're gonna make it right. We'll get you where you're supposed to be to keep you whole. And then a law changed so we took away what we promised is my point. But what I would say is wait until July and right now gas is so high. If you're doing diesel, it's gotta be over 7 now, maybe $8 almost now for diesel. That at a minimum, while they wait until August, we institute a fuel surcharge right away, which shouldn't take anything more than consensus. And then have the conversation about where you wanna go with the rest of it. But at a minimum, I mean, know what I just filled up my husband's wagoneer. Holy cow.

And it's not diesel. And diesel used to be cheaper and it's not anymore. And so really a 150,000 or what a $15,000 gas bill one week, their insurance bills are outrageous. It's just so so that's I would like at a minimum to give them at least a fuel surcharge but but make sure that we make a decision and not kick this game down the road any longer.

Okay. I I got you. I got Commissioner Scott.

Thank you, mister chairman. I I do recall that we, in 2023, that we updated the the rates then. And I do recall that commissioner Peters is correct that we were gonna revisit it, and and we never did. But that $250 administration fee then did kick in as well. I would like to look at this as more of a holistic view than try to play whack a mole. I do understand, the price of fuel. Believe me. I understand the price of fuel Yeah. Probably better than they do. So I'm certainly not opposed to that, to to visiting that aspect of it.

But I would like to visit the the rate structure as a whole and just try to make sure that we address it in in in a comprehensive way so that we're not here we're not back here having the same conversation another another eighteen or or twenty months. Thank

you, commissioner Scott. And, I think we're there's a lot of apples and apples to make sure that we're when we're comparing. At the end of the day, it's what residents are having to pay here, Hillsborough, you know, the other counties. So we just make sure that we bring all that in do we have enough people that wanna bring that complete discussion back? One, two, commissioner Scott, three, four. Okay. K. So we'll bring back the entire commission, look at it holistically for conversation at the June 16 meeting.

So we'll bring it for a discussion June 16. We then, based on the commission's direction, we'll prepare an ordinance for it as soon as we can Okay. Get on after

Got it. Is that That's good.

That's not what they said.

What's that?

If I can add something that I think could potentially make this process just a little bit easier. I'm advised by my attorney that's watching this meeting. The rates can be changed via resolution. The ordinance provides for the rates to be able to be changed by resolution, which does not carry with it the ten day notice period, the twenty one days to get it to the times. Okay. If you wanted to bifurcate a broader discussion with perhaps an immediate surcharge or something, you could do that by resolution. Now the base rates are in your ordinance, but we can change it with the resolution, which is a lot easier. I just wanna emphasize that. If you were to do that and go on and have a broader discussion, I'd recommend that if you do provide something by resolution, you put it into the ordinance in the long run. But I wanted to throw that out there since I got that information.

It would it would allow you to address the rates more quickly.

So what's what what Joel's talking about is we can put a resolution on with the discussion at the June meeting. If you choose to do something with it, then that gives you the ability to act on that resolution and it'll be effective immediately if you choose to do that. Okay. Alright.

Yes. Commissioner Nowicki.

Yeah. I mean, I think with the rates of gas being so high, but I don't know if there's a way in that resolution, like, if you have to get your car towed by the police because you were in an accident, maybe you don't have to pay that charge versus if you illegally parked in a handicapped spot, you know. You know, I don't think we should, you know, penalize somebody that was in an accident and they get their car towed because they can't drive it, you know, to charge them more versus somebody

Well, if they have

insurance and I'm just throwing this out. If they have auto insurance for the towing Okay. And they and usually the the insurance company will say, where are we towing this? Hopefully, they say to their home or whatever, not to the tow yard. So that may cover it that way, but that is a very good point. That's a

very good thought. Drives up

insurance costs. I hadn't

Yeah. Look, we can Yeah. We can I don't I don't know how the issue with, and I'm sure they can answer that question, but I don't know how the issue is with the police toast? I'm sure Doug does though, and we'll put all that together Yep. In the in the packet, and we'll get you information ahead of the June meeting.

Yep. Perfect.

And and then that way you can see that and stuff. Okay. Thank you. So no fuel Well, what No

no fuel in advance. We're not looking like everybody else, county's getting fuel surcharge. Everybody's getting fuel surcharge. We Could we Can we offer at least the fuels which was in the proposal anyways. Can we at least offer the fuel surcharge until we make that decision? Because it was in the proposal anyways.

At this meeting? Are you oh, you're asking today?

Yeah. Can we?

I don't know the answer to that.

We would need I would move that we at least at

a minimum. One second. Jewel?

We need to have a resolution to to vote on. The rates are set by ordinance. The ordinance allows it to be done by resolution. So we really need to follow that process. So no, because you don't have a resolution drafted today and I would not recommend that we try to very quickly put one together.

Okay. In June, we can do that. Thank you.

And we'll have one prepared for the June meeting and then based on our discussion, we'll carefully guide what we can put in the resolution and pass at that meeting.

Yes. We'll have we'll have a resolution on I I don't know what we'll put on. We'll probably just put on the base rates that we have right now. And then that way, you choose to amend any or all

of We them move.

You can do that right there.

Okay. Any other comments, questions before we move on? Okay. Thank you, commissioner Peters and everybody else who weighed in on it. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today. Appreciate it. Okay. Moving on to the consent agenda. Is there anything that anybody wants to pull? Motion by commissioner Wiecki. Second. Second by commissioner Peters. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. Motion carries unanimously onto item 17.

Item 17 is a project application for the Federal Aviation Administration. This is for $4,900,000 that would go towards infrastructure investment. That's the grant, and it would go towards pre design and construction activity for for future terminal improvement projects. It's simply a grant.

Any questions with staff? Commissioner Awakey makes a motion. Do I have a second?

Yeah.

Commissioner Peters on the second. Yes.

Oh, I just wanted to, you know, make sure since there's a match component to this that, like like, it's actually gonna get built. Like, we're paying to design something that's actually gonna get built. Because I noticed there was a big, like, $93,000,000 to be determined funding gap in that. So, you know, I just wanna make sure that, you know, we're still using some resident money from the airport that, you know, we're still this is actually gonna get built even though we have a big 93,000,000 to be determined pot of money that we don't know how it's gonna be funded per the application.

So it's gonna be July or August as you have you as Mark has briefed you previously that we're looking at modifications to the airport terminal project. That is closely tied with his financials, which is closely tied with his discuss ongoing discussions with Allegiant Airline, other carriers, but obviously Allegiant being the primary. And so those passenger facility charges would be part of that financial model. And so when he presents those and those modified design concepts, he'll also have a financial plan and he'll also have rates that will support the future improvements.

Okay.

And that's when, Barry? Probably July. So that means August. Just because, you know, he's gotta get all that done. Okay. Alright. Anything else? That's it.

Thank you. Okay.

So we had a motion and a second. Any other questions? Pull up the board, please.

On a yes.

That motion carries unanimously. Number 18, please.

Item 18 is a reimbursement payment to US Department of Treasury. This is from the the COVID emergency rental assistance program back many, many years ago. And so this was a monitoring letter. This is a payment we have to pay in compliance with some fraudulent applications. We're taking appropriate law enforcement and vendor directed activity towards them, but in the meantime, have to pay this reimbursement.

The these are the ones that vary because it seemed like when all of the were going on, there was a lot of a lot of fraud cases you did catch.

Yeah. So so if you were for those who were here, when when we got money we got money in through rental assistance housing and and, just like some of the other funds we get, we want to move it out. When you move it quickly, you hire contractors to be able to staff up. They have an obligation to review, to approve, and then it goes through our disbursement process. In that particular case, they did not catch several. Those have been turned over to law enforcement. We also are looking at the contract with the contractor and determine if there's any action that can occur that way. But it

It was a 148 that the county caught before they got Yeah.

So

out and only 11 that slipped through.

And those and yes. And, again, we you know, it's you know, Ken Burke always Ken Burke always says, you know, I I I appreciate trying to move government quicker, but if you move too quick, mistakes are made. You know? These no question. Mistakes were made. We should have had a better audit process to be able to before disbursements. But when you do that, you know, hindsight's twenty twenty.

I mean, the numbers were pretty staggering. 32,000 were applied. 7,900 were completed and reviewed. 5,600 were approved. 11 cases we missed, but to your point, a 148 we did catch for savings of about 3,000,000.

Mhmm.

So, I mean, sounds like overall.

Oh, hate to make any disbursement back, but overall, yes. I think you're correct that it was a successful program at a time that was critical and documentation was hard when you're Any questions?

Commissioner? Not a question.

Just a comment to the viewing audience. This is also why staff, with Horn is so meticulous in what they're asking for when they look for documentation because when they have all that documentation, it helps the the person that's asking for support. You know? It helps them so that they know that when they're getting the funds, it's appropriate. I know some people get upset when we don't move as fast as they would like for us to move sometimes, but Let me say this.

Today, I was at a luncheon that I was invited to, and I had a gentleman, I won't say his name, he said, are there gonna be any fireworks today? I said, what do you mean? He said, because I'm watching the meeting. So, yes, they watch our meeting. And I assured him, we don't ever have fireworks. We work well together.

And I'm sure he was just kidding with that.

You know what? He this is my friend. Yeah.

Any other any other questions or comments? Motion by commissioner Weeke, second by commissioner Peters. Pull up the board, please.

Yes. Motion

carries unanimously. On to number 19.

Item 19, this is our city and county, opioid abatement funding. This is the city and county funds and primarily funds the Pinellas Matters program.

Move approval. Second. Motion by commissioner Peters, second by commissioner Flowers. Any comments or questions? Pull up the board, please.

I'm a yes, mister chairman.

K. Need one more. Oh, there we go. Motion carries unanimously. Number 20.

And as as on the same thing on the opioid, this is the regional funds. This these funds are with the Opioid Abatement Funding Advisory Board. They're working through the procurement process, and recommendations will be coming at a later date regarding the use of the funds.

K. And the motion by commissioner Peters, second by commissioner Flowers. Any questions, comments? Pull up the board, please.

Yes, mister chairman.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 21.

This renewal, the behavioral health receiving system plan and the behavioral health transportation plan to support and facilitate access to behavioral health receiving facilities for mental health and substance use.

Second. Motion by commissioner Peter, second by commissioner Flowers. Any comments, questions? Bring up the board, please.

I am a yes, mister chairman.

K. Motion carries unanimously. Number 22.

Just to renew an extension of signature authority and certificate of participation for the Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant program countywide. So it's a renewal. They divide up the funds.

Motion by commissioner Peter, second by commissioner Nowicki. Any questions, comments? Pull up the board, please. Yes. Motion carries unanimously. Number 23.

It's a resolution to dedicating a county owned parcel of land at the intersection of North Mullenbooth and Copper Cove Drive in Clearwater as a public right of way. I don't know.

Way Clearwater people.

What did

he say? It quick because I couldn't pronounce it.

Famous kapok tree in Clearwater. So what did he say? Dave used to probably go

there I just said it quickly that way. Tree. You know? Cape I said Cape Poc.

Thank you for that correction, vice chair.

That's where old people used to go to eat.

Alright. So wrong.

A motion. There Second. Wait. Was that a second? That was a second motion and a second. Any comments, questions other than that, whatever that was? Bring up the card, please.

I'm a yes, mister chairman.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 24. You want to remove item 24? Yep. We're delaying that, and we'll bring that back because there's a couple more meetings needed. Item 25.

This resolution submit the resources and ecosystem sustainability tourism opportunity and revived economics of the coastal act. So this is the Gulf Coast funding, and they're amending it for the four projects that are listed in your packet. Motion

by commissioner Peters, second by commissioner Nowicki. Any questions, comments?

Just for my own do we need to, like, a motion to delay that other vote on the previous item, or is that just able to be tabled unilaterally? No. Okay.

I didn't know. Okay. Just Thanks. No? I got it. So we had a motion and a second. Any comments or questions on number 25? Nope. Bring up the board, please.

Only yes, mister chairman.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 26.

This is a tough tougher hearing for, the Hartford Apartments and Saratoga Apartments. The outlines are listed within your packet.

What do we got? Anybody wanna make a motion, please?

I'll make a motion.

Mo motion by commissioner Lett Vallis, second by commissioner Scott. Any comments, questions? Alright. Put bring up the board, please.

Yes.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 27.

Again, this is a resolution approving the TEFL hearing. This one is for the Sky Isles Apartments.

Motion by commissioner Peters and a second by?

I'll second.

Second by commissioner Scott. Any other comments, questions? Bring up the board, please.

And I'm a yes.

We're missing one.

Man. The leader. Commissioner Flowers.

The motion carries unanimously. Number 28.

I can speak to item number 28. This is a a resolution that the county commission is required by statute to do anytime redistricting occurs within the state of Florida. When redistricting occurs, the supervisor of the supervisors of elections throughout the state will adjust their precinct lines to help adjust to to make, you know, those new districts work. Again, this is really kind of a ministerial action for the board of county commissioners to pass a resolution approving those new precinct lines, which the supervisor has. There's backup documentation showing her request made to you on this. I always work with the supervisor to facilitate their agenda items. So I told them I would be happy to address

it with you all today.

Thank you.

So So I am requesting that you all approve the the resolution.

Motion. Second. Commissioner Lott Valla on the motion. Commissioner Sheard, I hear you on the second. Any questions, comments? Bring up the board, please.

On a yes, mister chairman.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 29.

Under item number 29, I'm requesting authority to file, file lawsuit in the reference case. This would be against, a contractor that did some damages to, some county facilities.

Motion by commissioner Nowicki. Second. Second by commissioner Peters.

Bring up the board, please.

Tell me yes.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 30.

Let me restate. That was actually a breach of contract claim. We've we've had a few contractor lawsuits come on here recently because of damages to facilities. That was this is actually a breach of contract claim. I have no reports, but let me just very quickly mention just commissioner Nawicki's question about the item that we pulled. What you all might be used to hearing us or what the attorneys you might be used to hearing the attorneys advise you. When we have public hearings that require a legal notice that we pay for, we specifically continue to a date certain for items like that so that we don't have to incur the cost of re advertising. For items like what you see on your normal agenda, those can be pulled pretty routinely. And that is it for me today. Thank you.

Barry, two two items. So before our next county commission meeting, you're gonna begin your budget information session meetings with all of the various departments, constitutional officers. This year is gonna be a very, very tight and tough year. I give you one just to kinda set the stage for what we're gonna be discussing. The entire projected increase of property tax under our current structure is gonna be less than, way less than, what the sheriff is even requesting to keep the lights on without any additional personnel, just contracts and increases and keeping the deputies.

So we're gonna have decisions to make, and we're gonna bring you a balanced budget, but it's not gonna be without everybody tightening their belt. I can assure you the departments who report to you have submitted a flat budget, which means they ate cost and found efficiencies to be able to live within that flat budget, and you'll be able to see those outlined. Our constitutional officers and appointed authorities have been great stewards of our taxpayer money and have kept their requests down to a minimum. But there are things like, you know, BTS. We have major systems, and they have maintenance contracts, and they go up.

You know? And our health care costs are going up. And so we've got a lot of big decisions coming up. When you see the packets come before you, before the first day, you'll I wanna put it in context for you as you begin to read them so it's not a surprise. So that's just a heads up on what we're facing. We'll get there. We've always worked together, and I talk and I mean this sincerely. All of our constitutional officers, appointing authorities, sheriff, everybody, they come together and they work together, and we we figure it out. But this year's gonna be tighter, and so we're gonna have to really work together and and think outside the box to be able to get there. The last item that I had is, you you know, Dan Eggleston.

He is retiring. He's in our communications department. He's behind the scenes back here. But this is the he's retiring at the end of this month. And Dan came to us in 2002, had a background in news, and here he is twenty four years later. He's directed county produced programs like Inside Pinellas, Aging on the Suncoast. You've seen him at all of our public events. I said something at our employee picnic. But again, he's back in the control room. Him and Pete worked to make these presentations, make all this happen here for you, along with a lot of others.

So today's his last board meeting, and we wanted to recognize him for all of his years and his contributions to the county and just wish him the very best in his well earned retirement. That concludes my report.

That's it. Alright. Let's move on to item 32, which is appointments and reappointments of the emergency medical services medical control

board. Yeah.

It is. Just

There's there's no violence for that item.

It's at the end.

It's item 35, Blaine.

Yeah. We're coming back to

Yeah. They can wait a little longer. So

do we have a roster for these?

Not for item 32. For item 33, I have ballot. For item 32, either a voice vote or a vote on the board would suffice.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I meant. Yeah. I have a motion by commissioner Lett Ballot, second by commissioner Peters. Bring that up, please.

I'm a yes.

It's it's okay, Blaine.

Motion carries

Rather safe than sorry.

Motion carries unanimously. Number 33 is the appointment to the Saint Pete Community Redevelopment. And we have a ballot going around.

Mister chairman, do I have an opportunity to vote on this since I'm not there?

Yes. You do. Absolutely. I'm gonna collect them all first, and then then

I'll just say who I want. Okay.

So for Allah Adam, I think I'm saying it right, it says that that person was not we were not able I was kind of It said that

They were

and they were.

That it says that they were unable to determine Residency? Yeah. If they are located or or has a business or whatever in the CRA, and they also applied no to being Pinellas County resident, but stated five years length of time as resident, that should in my opinion, that should be a no as it relates to eligibility because you don't live in the CRA. And you either you should know you either are or aren't.

Yeah. It listed as a no.

No. I got a yes on mine. It says eligible yes. Alla Autumn, the first one. Yeah. Alla, I

don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. That should be a no because Yeah. Know, you know you eat where you live.

I'm just confused on that one

because Yeah. I just wanted I wanted to maybe

I agree.

See what you all

thought about correcting the record on that and this should be eligibility no based on our criteria.

I'm sorry. So we're we're basically gonna put a check mark in the not qualified?

That's what I did. Yes. I just wanted to share that, please.

Alright. Is everybody Okay.

So now submitted yet?

I only had one.

The simple directions for young people sometimes.

Right. I wore glasses.

I circled the two that suggested.

Yeah.

Let me know when

you have all of them, and then we'll let, commissioner Scott weigh in.

Or do you want him to maybe email here since since no. I'm just saying because we we didn't announce ours out loud. I didn't know if he want he laughing. Well I didn't know if he wanted to He could be

the typewriter.

Okay. We have them all?

I do.

Okay. Go ahead, Farron.

Okay. Thank you. I would like to vote for Gisela Hackman and Mako Seymour.

Did you get that?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you, mister chairman.

Alright. Okay. So new campus design options. I think I'm gonna jump over our stuff. Oh, okay. So get ready.

Alright. Well, Blaine's ready. So okay. He's gonna bring up our team.

So Blaine Blaine sounded excited about moving forward. Well, here

here, commissioners, you've made a lot of decisions today. You don't have to make a decision here. We we need your input and ideas. So the the team has been beginning to bring this project together, and you saw we sent out in advance of the meeting some ideas and thoughts. With that, I'll turn it over to Blaine, but we we need to kinda get a feel from the commission if there is one. We took it to the appointed authorities, we had 20 people and 20 different ideas. So that's how that went.

Thank you, Barry. Good afternoon, everyone. Yes. We wanna we've got Christine Bishop Johnson and Jonathan Ray from HOK. We also have Robert Shaw from Crawford Cook, CVRE, in the audience with us, our owner's representative. And they're gonna show you some exterior concepts today, and I'll turn it over to them.

Thank you so much for the time today. We are gonna go through, as Barry and Blaine have mentioned, four different concepts, and really this is design progress. Progress. What we're trying to accomplish today is walking through, explaining those concepts, and if there's something that's jumping out at you, we wanna get opinions. We wanna see how you're reacting to these. These concepts all have the same materials palette, all four of them that Jonathan's gonna take you through, and they're all based on, amassing and siting that has been approved for the location. So with that, I'll, let Jonathan start.

Alright. Alright. Thank you. So as mentioned, we have four design concepts. All of all of these are taking into account, the sun path and shading. We're starting to look at some of this in a little bit more detail. You'll see in some of the schemes a little bit more than others that we're starting to, incorporate sun shading. We do wanna make sure that we have a prominent facade facing, Ulmerton, and a secondary facade facing, Icahn. We wanna make sure that this is a clear location for visitors to the site when once they arrive that they know that they are there. And then we wanna make sure that there's clear wayfinding once you've gotten on the site, where the entrance is, and then once you get into the building.

So with those basic ideas in mind, we have these four ideas. We have, the projected colonnade, the recessed colonnade, what we're calling the picture frame, and the expressive screen. So the projected colonnade is much more of your traditional courthouse typology. The on the left there, you can see the the prominent colonnade facing Ulmerton. It's much more in traditional and it's massing in scale.

Question real quick. Hold on. It looks like your projected colonnade is different from that one. Am I missing something or is that just a different

view? We have the we have the four views that we're gonna go through here in a little bit more detail as an overall shot, and then I was zooming up on those so you can see them a little more clearly.

I was looking at the green in mine, you know, the green whatever that extension is being different than that squared.

This is an updated presentation.

Oh, there you go. I knew that I didn't

Because it's a iterative design process, this is the progress.

I just flew in yesterday from a trip, so I missed that part. Little detail.

Sorry, chair. I sent that out last night. So as part of our governance process that Barry had mentioned, we went to the executive committee, went to the appointing authorities, and we got some initial feedback on certain parts of that. So we went ahead and modified that slightly, some of the so those exterior concepts before we brought it to you. So that's what you received last night and what you're seeing today.

Sorry about that.

Maybe a few slight differences between them, but as Blaine mentioned, is as in an iterative process trying to refine it more to what the the county is looking for. So the on this particular scheme, you see the the prominent facade for the courthouse on the left hand side and the admin building on the right hand side.

So the left hand side is going to be along Ulmerton Road and then the right hand side would be entering the complex along Icott, just to orient you.

Then the, in between the knuckle of the L, is a large atrium space. What we're envisioning currently is a four story atrium space. This particular scheme, we put a potential logo or a seal on the building as part of its identification. And then the piece that is closest to us is the actual chambers itself. It's separated from the building so that it can have its own structural, column and, structural system so that it ends up being a column free space. So

right along the front here, this would be in all of the schemes you're gonna see, this would be the county commission chamber. And the reason Jonathan was saying that separated is that allows for a separate structural system that gives you that column free space. It allows us to have a higher ceiling in that larger volume space and gives more flexibility for the rest of the a general office structural grid for the administration wing of the building.

The rationale behind the four stories of open atrium.

So the four story connector piece right there, it's not purely open atrium. That would be circulation space between the two wings of the building. There is a potential popping through of an atrium element, but it's mainly that's your circulation core. That's also a space for additional amenities, waiting areas for both the admin wing of the building as well as the justice wing.

And all four of them have that?

That's correct.

Correct.

I'll look around, make sure I'm got questions. Go ahead.

So here's a view view again, from that same corner, just more elevated. You have Ulmerton on the left, Icahn on the right. You can start to see the overall size of the campus and the other buildings, the Development Services Building is the building in the upper right, and then the five floor parking garage is on the left there. In between, as you may remember from our previous presentation, is a courtyard that is a protected courtyard for the building. This is a view from that protected courtyard.

The facades of this of this here still have a have a formality to them, but not quite as much formality. And you can see that there is a low entrance piece at the corner, making it clear where you enter into the building through the security vestibule.

So you've gotten you've straightened out both of those corners on the back

That is correct.

On both sides of the l. Correct.

You can also see in this view the secure parking on the left, for the commissioners and secure parking on the right hand side of the building for, judicial. Again, the same basic view, but this more much more ground level. We've the landscaping is a significant part of this overall project, but we wanted to have a separate meeting on that to discuss that in a little bit more detail. So we've left it out here so you can, see the building more prominently.

Can I ask a question? Yep. Can you go back to the secure parking? Mhmm. Please. So when you say to our right, you're saying our right over here.

So to your right or yes. So that is the commissioner parking right there,

the speaker parking.

And so the other side is for judicial. Okay. And here's my question. So that other part, is that the five story guest parking? The parking is right here. Okay. Mhmm. Okay. So here's my question. For the and I'm just going on the little lines you have. For the judge parking over here, Will that be completely enclosed? Because the way you have the lines, it's kinda like it's open.

So right now, that is shown is just a walled in secure parking area. It does not have a cover. That is a discussion point for the future, but that would add additional costs to both of those secure parking areas.

I'm not trying to raise the cost. I'm just thinking about security.

Mhmm.

You have judges entering in an open space going in a building where the public can park, not saying anybody would do anything. Mhmm. But that would be the potential site for someone to want to do something because you have open access to them.

And commissioner, we have the we have the sheriff's office as part of our team as part of our team reviewing all of these different

just saying, Cole.

Yeah. That's a that's a fair point. And because of that consideration, we are talking through screening elements on this face of the parking garage that is looking on to that area and having close conversations with the sheriff's department on on-site layout as well as building design.

Okay. Just asking. Thank you.

So the front and the front the front the the the buildings facing the roads and the and the the facades facing the courtyard, aside from the feature that you made on the judges or the judicial side, Are they pretty much the same look? I mean, we

In in between all four options?

Yeah. I mean, are we looking at kind of a very bold statement on the South Side facing and more of an open glass looks like open glass area on the

Generally, that that would be an accurate statement. We're trying to be have much more of a formal facade facing Ulmerton, conveying the importance of the judicial and a little less so on the courtyard side.

And lots of sun protection on the south and the east side. Correct.

And that is that is something that we've started investigating, but we're still working on it. We live here in Florida. We all know that sun's brutal, especially late in the afternoon.

Commissioner Lott Valley needs a lot of air conditioning, so make sure we provide that. Okay. Go ahead.

Alright. And then this would be, as you're approaching the building, the entrance feature as you enter up into the secure vestibule.

So this vestibule right here is the security entrance point. A lot of times, what we do is pull that outside of the footprint of the building, and that helps from another risk mitigation standpoint. If there was anything to happen within that vestibule, you're isolating that space outside of the footprint of the rest of the building.

So anybody entering the building, anybody, either building, will go through that security?

That is correct. We are talking about a staff bypass lane at that entrance right now. There will be secure staff entrance points at other locations, but all general public are going through that point and would be screened.

Alright. Option two, we're calling the recess colonnade. Again, it has the the formality of a colonnade, but rather than being a separate element, separated from the building, it's integrated more into it. We're treating both the facade facing Ulmerton and the facade facing ICOT in a similar manner here. You can see again, we have that organizing element, the atrium space in center there. And we've treated this facade with a little bit more glass, a little bit more openness on the side facing Ulmerton. Again, the chambers is the, area closest to you.

So, again, nobody wanted a crooked commission taped?

That was, generally seen as unfavorable. Correct.

Unfavorable? Okay. Commissioner Whitwell.

Thank you, mister Sherman. When y'all go over these, can you compare the price differences and where they rank with each other? Because I'm gonna be supportive of what the whatever the cheapest option is as long as it doesn't crumble.

So we don't have costs at this point. This is part of it though, developing the concepts and the the massing of the building. I will say that, as you can see, it's mostly concrete and glass. That is within our budget that we have put forth, and that's why you don't see a lot of other materials. So, you know, we are very interested in your responses to these. These are not, like, your four choices to pick one. It's what do you like about them. But I think a commonality for all of them are the types of materials we're being used which is within our budget.

So all four options will be within the budget?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Yes, sir. That's that's correct. You know, the projected colonnade would cost a little bit more. That's a little bit more material outside the building envelope than perhaps a recessed colonnade, for instance. But we don't have all the details on that. We're just really interested in in your general feedback.

Dave. Commissioner Scheer. Yes. Thank you. Before we get to the other elevations, I just wonder where you're getting your input on what the elevation is supposed to be at.

Commissioner Nowakie and I both have suggested several times that our judicial and our administration should have a a neoclassical Greek Western civilization look to it, and these elevations to me look eerily similar to the building that we're trying to escape from. And I'm just wondering why can we well, they're they're the same color. They're the same window sizes. I mean, just I'd like to see some columns and and some gables and and, you know, that those those vestibules, whatever you're calling them, that that they could be columns and we could have a nice gable on top and, you know, is there a government center? I'm just I'm sorry.

I just don't know why we can't have at least one elevation. It looks like I mean, I haven't heard anybody else give input on that elevation, but these are a little stoic to me and a little bleak. And I think that we could

I guess we need to hear from the commissioner. We can go back and look at those. Yeah. No. No. I mean, this is the reason we're having this conversation. This really is the first time we've had that. These are traditional government type funk you know, buildings that have been built. If you wanna go to something like that, we we could come up with ideas. There is a significant cost associated with that. And we'd have to figure that out. Well, you know, just just because it's

it's a column. You're looking at a column doesn't mean the column's made out of Italy from a marble from Italy. It could be made from concrete right here in Plant City, and it could be put up and you won't notice it's not made from marble. So I'm just looking at these elevations and I'm just thinking. I I was hoping to see something that at least looked like a I've been to a lot of government buildings in Washington and places like that, and they don't look anything like this. So

So I will say, sir, that's something that we could explore if the commission and the county administration team would like to pursue that path, but classical architecture has a a different proportion than the massings of these buildings. Expressing classical architecture in a campus of this magnitude is is going to be a large undertaking. It would change the overall mass and aesthetic of having separate wings of the functionality of the building. It's more than just classical architecture true to its form is more than just dressing the box and adding columns to it, but it's about the proportionality of the structure. So it's something that we could definitely look at, but true classical architecture would have both that balance of form as well as the facade.

Oh, okay. I respectfully disagree. I think you could dress up the outside to look classical if you wanted to and leave the boxes the way they are.

Okay. Understood. So just in a what's classical to you? What would I mean, he said classical. What does that mean?

What Neoclassical. There's a difference.

Well, so Classical. Little story right now. I am leading a project as well as this one that just had to go through the White House approval process for the executive order on making federal civic buildings beautiful, which requires following a contextual approach. It lists different classical architecture elements, not just neoclassical, as being appropriate to meet the intent of the executive order. I've been going through that process for a year on a much smaller courthouse building in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

I'd be happy to share that press release with you that's coming out in June so you can see what my interpretation of classical architecture is. But in that context, it's an Art Deco inspired courthouse, and it is purely a courthouse. It does not have county administration functions joined with it, and it's not of this magnitude on a campus. But I'd be happy to share that executive order as well to see what the federal government says classical architecture is and how that's interpreted in federal architecture.

Well, that'd be great to just have a peek at it.

Mean,

not that, you know I mean, I I I I kinda liked what I saw. I mean, I'm not really into the whatever you just said. But I'd like to see what it looks like just to say, oh, you're opening my my mind to new and better and more modern looking facilities. But, again, I think this makes a statement and it and it and it's bold on the on the on the judicial side and I think it has got a great campus look to it. And, you know, just something about not being I'm not even sure what the right word is, but too much flare in a government facility that we want our our our taxpayers to not only see a bottom line that's inexpensive, but the one that kinda looks and presents a, you know, kind of a simple, plain, solid, you know, one that's gonna be here for the ages kind of thing.

Because sometimes, you know, different styles go through processes over time and they come in and out of style. And anyway, so much for my I didn't go into architecture, so you know, listening to what you guys have to say means. So if we could see that, that'd be great. Commissioner Latvale.

Thank you, Mr. Sherman. What is the life expectancy of the new building?

This building would easily last for fifty years. Precast concrete is a tried and true material, particularly here in Florida with the rain and the sun. The curtain wall system is something that would need little maintenance for a number of years. Eventually, it is going to need maintenance like all window systems would, but the these are buildings that are intended to last for fifty plus years.

So we could theoretically get seventy years out of it and do like a Eggers. No. Like Eggers type building. Yeah. Eggers lifetime.

Yeah. But don't don't worry about that question. Before I get to you, commissioner, let me just get commissioner Scott while I see his hand up there. I tend to always miss that. So commissioner Scott.

Thank you, mister chairman. A lot of good comments going going around here. I mean, my, we are we are building something here that's gonna last. I mean, to me, this is, like, sixty plus years. I mean, we've been in our existing buildings for, what, sixty two or sixty three years. So to me, this is a a sixty plus year endeavor. And when I first looked at this, what what stood out to me is it looks very eerily similar to the architecture at the Florida Capitol Building, which to me is one of the uglier government buildings I think I've I think I've ever seen.

Okay. Just say how

you And

I'm not saying that

I think this is fairly ugly or any or anything, but but it's it's kinda stoic. So I wanna I wanna go through all of the options here and just sort of understand all of the all of the different trade offs that each different design comes with. But at the end of the day, I may wanna see something with a little more pizzazz or a little more life to it just if nothing else, just for comparison purpose. And I understand. I totally agree with commissioner LaVella that cost is really gonna be the driving factor in all of in all of this. But I would like to just see, you know, go through the rest of these options here, but I I am thinking I'm gonna wanna see something a little bit different just to open up my mind up a little bit because this looks very much like a old stodgy government building in in my opinion.

Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Flowers, and we're good.

Thank you. So neoclassical design is a combination of Greek and Roman architecture. You're looking at columns. Think Florida Supreme Court building in Tallahassee. Think the new appeals court building in Downtown Saint Pete. That's neoclassical. They do have forms that you can make. Like, when people freshen up the front of their houses and they may add columns to their front porch and so it kinda spoofs it up a little bit. There are forms that you can do for construction development that gives the illusion, but that's not really what it is. So that's what you're

talking about. Right.

I'm sorry. You know, I like clothes, fashion, etcetera. So that's number one. Number two, I have to admit that building does look a lot like the building across the street. The cost of concrete now runs you about a $175, $200 a yard.

The cost of glass, in some cases, depending on how big that window is, can really run you into quite a bit of money. However, it does serve its purposes when you're talking about warming of a building, especially in the wintertime. So I see the attributes there. The garage area that you have and I know we're gonna see some other pictures, but when you go into Orlando and you're on I 4 on the left hand side, there's a real nice garage like that, but they're using the growth of some real nice green plants on the outside. So it's serving its purpose, but it gives the illusion that it's not necessarily just a concrete garage.

So something like that just kinda beautifies it, you know, instead of just concrete.

And we are still looking at options of how to screen that garage, how to break up some of that massing. We do have to balance that against things like maintenance cost. Right. Certainly, I I know the parking garage you're talking about. It it's a very nice looking parking garage. It doesn't really look like a parking garage, but there's also a lot of maintenance associated with Right. With maintaining that.

The only other comment I have is, unlike, some of my colleagues, I I want I wanna look at cost because we know that we're gonna be dealing with a few things. Our, wonderful administrator just told us that we're gonna be taking in less money than what one department is even asking for. So we're gonna have to find a way to make up the difference for the cost of construction. And I know we have some other things going, but I also wanna look at energy efficiency because that's another way that we can save money. So I'm gonna continue to look at your designs and things.

And I'm sorry if I got off kilter, but I just wanted to share that before we got too far going. But it does look a lot like the building across the street on this side on this side, where you have the seal, the state seal. And as a matter of fact, this side looks more like our judicial center on 49th Street right now to me. So not saying I spend a lot of time out there, by the way. But but I wanna say thank you, though. Thank you for sharing these visions.

Alright. Appreciate you. Thank

you, chair. Yeah. I guess I just was that the Disney Springs garage that has the planters? The the green. It is. Yeah. I think that's the one. That is nice. Tight budget, though. We'll see. But, yeah, no. I just agree with, you know, commissioner Scheer. I mean, this is you know, I I know I said I didn't wanna see, like, a lot of glass. It kinda looks like a modern monstrosity a little bit, and that was kind of a concern I had when y'all came here. And I said a lot of your previous designs of other buildings, I mean, it all looks the same and no classical feel to it.

But, yeah, don't need to echo on, but thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Largo opened their new city hall today, and one thing I noticed, and this is a serious question and it's not necessarily about me because my diet is limited at the moment. But one thing that I noticed in the press release about their new city hall is that there's like three or four restaurants in it. Is there any plan for our new center, our new government center to have, like, commercial options for restaurants or other commercial opportunities that we can use to make some money?

And to the current design, no. We would have to increase the footprint and, obviously, the cost. Actually, we see this center helping the other restaurants commercial establishments out in the ICOS center that have struggled.

With, you know, something that commissioner Peters has mentioned a few times, is that something that we can look at? Because it doesn't necessarily have to be a restaurant, but it could be like a barber shop or, you know, shoe shine or, like, you know, anything like that. I'm sorry?

Is it a coffee shop?

Yeah. Like a coffee shop or

Well, we we we are looking at, like, a a coffee kiosk. Okay. You know, in that space. We're looking at the That has donuts. We struggled. We just so you just so you know, we struggled with these grab and goes. So even out of 49th Street. 49th Street, we used to have, you know, a restaurant there. And and there you have a lot of of traffic. And we had to go to a grab and go type thing where it's pre stocked with fresh foods because they couldn't make it go. They go out of business. Same thing in what we used to have as a little restaurant there. That it's really, really tough to make them go. So increasing the footprint, we would never recoup our cost. It would be it would be a drain on us if and we actually think

Even with a couple 100 employees that are there

Well, we'll have a thousand and it still would be very, very difficult to make it go. You know, it it it's really think about what we have at 49th Street and how many people you have going through there. And there you have a lot of Well, they have a This is a very

small cafeteria there, don't they?

At 49th Street? SPEAKER Not anymore. Had to convert No. We When

had I convert had jury duty there, I remember at cafeteria. Yeah,

we had to convert it to a grab and go because they couldn't make it go. And remember, this courtroom is not the same as 49th Street at all. This is a lot lower volume, a lot more stuff that's done electronically in filings, and so, yeah, it's not gonna have the same foot traffic. It would be very, very difficult.

Commissioner, excuse me. Your microphone.

I'm sorry. Prefab walls aid in completing your construction development much sooner, especially when, there are certain weather concerns. So I need to give you another cool little on that one.

Mister, I would love to have more options for employees.

I

really would. We've just we've I've we've been through these several over the last, you know, eight years, and we've had to modify what we actually done within within our facilities because of the lack of the somebody the ability to run it. They go out of business.

How about those?

We we need to have a meeting with Chick fil A because those people are geniuses when it comes to logistics and set up a little Chick fil A kiosk. How about a place for where you bring the

trucks in and have those That's actually a

good idea. We do bring a a food truck in, you know, here. We we do bring a food truck in here, and and that would be a possibility.

Did you

say food trucks?

Yeah. I said I'm bringing in food