City Council - Regular Meeting

Let's help the people. It It's going to cost anyway. We can lower the cost if we work together. You know me, I'm all about helping somebody. And I've seen some some houses and places in town. It's pretty bad. Now, if we can help on this end through community development and and the landlord association, we can make Pine Love a great city where people want to want to come and live. You know, that's my take. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mace. So, we'll begin our meeting by opening the floor for anyone who wants to speak against the ordinance, anyone who has concerns. Um if you feel that way, just um step up to the mic. Uh we're going to start off with against and then we can move into the people who are more supportive of it. Um okay. Does anyone want to step up tonight?

To the honorable mayor, to the council members that's here, um I first want to address my alderman, uh brother Fails of the third ward. I do agree with you that I'm Ivan Whitfield and I want to make the record straight that I'm not here representing the NAACP. I'm here as a a landlord. Um on last Monday and you made it today about this ordinance is about electric, water, and gas. No, it's not. There's nobody in this community that I know of will rent a house or an apartment that cannot they can't get electric water and gas. That sounds bad, but that's not the truth. Every home should provide that. If that's what that ordinance says, if that's what it is, I want to encourage the mail them to go for it. But it's more than that. You can't peacemail it. If you're going to have legislation, I would suggest that you have one for the tenants rights as well as the landlord. If I decide if I rent your home, I decide I don't want to pay your rent. I call down to the city and say, "I got problems here." In your ordinance, it don't say that that person has to be up on their rent. How can you take a car back to a car lot that you bought and you two months behind saying, "Fix it for me." So, I'm saying, let's be fair across the board. Landlords is not the problem here. We are a a element that provide people a safe place to live. And if you're going to do an ordinance, it ought to say to me now, how can you complain if you have not paid the monthly note? You're going to get a lot of complaints and that's what you going to find out what has happened. Now, there are some

homes here that may be in bad shape and people complains about, but I'm just saying to you, to this council, to the mayor, that it needs to be fair. I think people deserve a nice place to live, but they got to pay. And this ordinance is going to give them a way around because we already have to jump through hoops to for eviction. And thank God I probably have only had to evict two or three people in five or six years. But one is too many. So I'm saying let's do it where it's fair to both sides. What you have presented is not fair. It's not good. It's not healthy. Cuz what's going to happen is landlord going to increase their rent to cover the unnecessary cost that that the city is going to bring. Then the question is going to be how much time do they have to come out and investigate the uh person complaint? Because when I rent an apartment, I video it. I take pictures of it. So therefore, when they call you and tell you something is wrong, I didn't live there. Uh I had an inspection two weeks ago. Housing authority came out and they sent me a letter to check the uh alum smoke detector, carbon dioxide detector. I had to check it, put new barriers in it. That was fine. But there was some blinds that was tore up and they would not pass my unit because of blind. They told the tenant, "You responsible for that cuz you tore it up." So your legislation is not going to cover that. That's where we have problems at. Town hall meeting may be good, but we need to be at a table to define some of these things because there's no way you going to get it all. And I I I want to hear what a tenant would say about the landlord that's not doing their job. That's my take on it. Uh in a nutshell,

I want you to remember that landlord provide a safe, secure place for citizens that's not blessed enough to own a home. But they also need to pay the proper cost and don't use the city as a scapegoat because that's what's getting ready to happen. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Woodfield. Um, do we have another speaker who has concerns about the ordinance that you would like to address?

Brother Chair, I'd like to say that's why we're coming together. We're not trying to beat a landlord up. We're just trying to make this a lot smoother and a lot better for our city. You know, that's that's my take. And how can we come together and and and make it work? This a this is an important piece or part of our city housing. you know, if if we can sit down and come to an agreement, I mean, the tenant tenants just can't do anything and landlords can't do anything. You know, it's just you got to have some kind of common ground in this thing where we'll make a decision for everybody. All right, that's my take on that.

Thank you, Mr. Bass. Um, and I'm not ignoring your um statement. I'm just making notes and kind of towards the end once I hear from everybody's feedback then I can kind of give a g general statement on what I think the findings are of the meeting and best way to move forward at the end of the meeting. Are you are you going to be able to say that you want to put that in legislation? Well, yes. So, I am taking notes and so if there are some things that we can revise the ordinance and new language that we can include in the ordinance. Yes, sir. That's why we're here. Yeah. Okay. Are there some more comments from anyone who has concerns about this ordinance? You have something, Mr. Regginel? Uh, yes, sir.

Okay, you can step up to the mic. My my concern are about the fines and uh the fines can be up to $1,000 plus $500 a day. And that is very concerning for me. And uh so I did a little research in uh 2014 right here in Pine Bluff. Alderman Maze, you were a part of this. Uh you all proposed the ordinance that called for a $100 to $500 fine for offenses up to 10 days for this very same thing. $250 to $750 for a fine of offenses up to 10 to 20 days. a $500 to $1,000 fine for offenses up to 20 to 30 days and a $1,000 fine of 30 to 180 days in jail for offenses that last 30 or more days. This was you all. You signed on to this legislation then. And so what I'm saying here today, I still don't believe that the 500 to or,000 plus and then $500 a day is fair. I believe this is just a scaledown version of whatever happened in 2014. I don't know if that legislation passed or not, but it was in the Pine Bluff commercial. And I do believe this is just a scaledown version of that. And I do not believe it's fair to the landlords and I'm totally against it. And I'm Reginald Johnson, Justice of the Peace for District 3.

I understand. Yes, sir. Good to see you, Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir. I I understand what you're saying. Now it's just time for the city, all of it, just to come together and work together to make it better.

Well, I'll say this, Alderman Mazize. Uh, and I'll be totally honest with you. Uh, if I'm going to have to go through this type of rhetoric, I can put my houses on housing and get more money than what I'm getting for them now. So, what you're going to do is you're going to make things harder for a regular renter because most landlords would rather put their houses on houses anyway. that money comes. You don't have to worry about when your check come and that money going to be there. So, what you're going to do is make it unfair to the regular renter and uh you you just you going to raise the rent on people. So, I I just caution you that I think that this is a mistake and it needs to be refined and okay, that's what we're doing. We're trying to refine it to make it better.

Okay, I'm not looking for a war. I'm looking for a a solution. I'm not looking for a war neither, but I don't think this is the solution either. So, what what do you recommend? That's what I'm saying. We we we need to talk. Okay, we need to get back to the table about these fines. How did we come up with this number? Where did it come from? Uh is can that be adjusted? These these could be adjusted. It these fines are hefty that you're talking about $500 a day. That could be adjusted. I mean, why would you even put that in there? That's

I want I do want to just clarify. You're not going to be penalized $500. The language in the ordinance says that fines can be up to $1,000 or fines can be um up to 500 thou $500 for continuing um violations. However, the city we won't be in a position to actually each day. It said each day.

Yeah. Each day the city won't be in a position to actually determine the fines. That's going to be determined by a judge in a court system. So, it's going to be a third party, a neutral arbitrator who's going to determine the actual amount of the fine. So, it's I just do want to clarify. I understand your frustration with those parameters, but I do want to clarify. It's not going to automatically be a $1,000 fine.

So, again, you know, I just want to stress it again. What you're going to do, you're going to make it hard for the regular renter. It's going to be very hard for them because in the end, the landlords have to look out for your bottom line. You know, as I came here last time, I showed you pictures of what I have went through in the last 30 days with tenants. They will tear your house up and and they don't care about a deposit. And so, the thing is, you're putting all these strict rules on the landlord, but there is nothing in there that says what the tenants have to do with their houses. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. I do think that's good feedback for us to go ahead,

council member. Um, I just had a quick question from that exchange. So, I didn't recall and I just may it just may have been since we have slept many times since the bill was read and that I had an opportunity to read it. Does the does the um proposed ordinance stipulate that the $1,000 fine would be determined by a judge in a third party proceeding? That's not explicitly in the ordinance because we have other ordinances where fines are we have other ordinance that include fines, but it's just always been an implicit understanding that that is does go to the court. Same with our traffic fines and things of that nature. But we can make that clearer in the ordinance.

I would say this I two things. I would say that it should whatever it's going to be as it relates to fines, it should definitely be explicitly stated. Um, I would also though caution that if if what we're trying to do is put teeth in a measure to encourage immediate or as immediate as possible action on the part of any landlord who's not meeting these very minimum standards that you are referring to identified in state um law, then we not create another process and system that leads to court. Because what I'm concerned about when what I was concerned about when I heard that is if this is going to eventually create a whole another process that won't be final unless there's a court proceeding. Now you have um landlords that are going to have to get a lawyer anyway and you have possibly the tenants that might have to ultimately get a lawyer because we would not be operating in a in a you know prosetorial kind of role unless you're saying that once these complaint complaint processes play out, there would be an appeal where people would have to go to court and the fines would be dictated by um the judge and that that process would have to be represented the city would be

have to be represented by the city attorney. So, I just I'm I when I read it, I thought that the fines would be outlined. Um, and if if any landlord found to have not been compliant with these minimum standards, that the fine would be assessed and paid to the city. in that process, even if there was an appeals process, which I do think needs to be included. So, I'm I'm just kind of throwing that out there because I know you're wanting to hear from the people,

but number one, it should be explicit how that fine process is going to be determined. But we I don't think we should create a whole layer of bureaucracy unless it's absolutely necessary. And I think what you're putting together should be necessary, but then not to once again lead people back to the courts because they can do that now. right now. That's what that what

no because right now there's no local mechanism that says landlords can be fined for a violation. So if there's a violation under this ordinance then the city can write a citation for which the penalty can be a fine but it's the same thing. I believe a while back ago we passed you know the drag racing ordinance and so that had fines in it as well. the city, we don't when we write a ticket, we don't necessarily say you're in violation and you have to pay this amount of money. It's a normal thing for municipalities to issue a citation and then for a court to determine the actual cost of what that penalty would be. Don't we have fines like um for some street department um violations?

Uh I'm not sure about that. I think we do. I think we do that. Anyway, I mean I'll I'll stop. I just wanted to that's what came to my mind. I think it's a good question and like like I told Mr. Um Johnson, I'm taking notes and we can definitely confer with the city attorney and make that language more clear within the ordinance. Thank you. Thank you so much. Anyone else have any major concerns with the ordinance that you would like to set forward to address? I I have something else. Okay. Yes, sir.

Yeah. Thank you. Uh if we can just we go into there look at what's in there like that ordinance I I wrote I created four four five years ago if I'm not mistaken. We can go in there and change some of these things make it work. I don't think we're getting that that that much fun from the fines now anyway. I'm willing to work with you all. We just got to have something in place. Do y'all see all this is going on in in the city, in the state? This stuff for real. And we need to make some decisions now on how to fix Pine Bluff cuz going to come a time where you going to have time to do nothing. I'm watching all this very closely. Y'all y'all read the paper and see this stuff. the Republicans of are strictly about business for themselves.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mace. So, uh we will now open the floor for people who would like to speak um in support of the ordinance. Um even if you are in support, you still have concerns about it, you know, the floor is still open. Um please step up to the microphone. Okay. Well, just for the cameras for the people who are at home. Yep. And while you walk up here, just for the record, this is not my meeting, but I have to say that this is not um a partisan event and it's not a partisan issue.

Hello, my name is Pamela Jackson or Pamela Pamela. Um I'm in support of the ordinance. I'm going to say this. I moved into um an apartment over in Watson Chapel. The air conditioning went out, right? And for two weeks, the landlord refused to. He had they have plenty of units. This is a million. This is fair. Mr. Jackson, please speak in the mic.

Okay, I promise. This is Yes, this is feral reality. So, it is plenty of income out there. They could have went to another, you know, building and maybe got a part to fix the air air conditioning unit, but they did not. They left it off for two weeks. During the two weeks, the wet the walls begin to sweat, right? We were displaced. Nobody helped us, you know, living move into a a hotel. No one, you know, reduced any of the rent. The rent was still due. Um, another thing that I found out to be is that, um, where I live at, I'm being charged, um, 700. Other people are paying 550, 625, 650. I moved in in 2021. So, I don't I don't know if they go by like a market rate or anything like that. Another issue is is that there was a resident out there that owed um late fees. They refused to fix the air conditioning. They had two children for the entire summer. They had windows up and we know how hot it can get in Arkansas, you know. So, um I believe that the ordinance is important, you know, for tenants. I think that um it is now time for tenants to actually have rights. It's always been a landlord um just environment, a friendly environment where the rights have been more so on the side of the landlords and not for the tenants. We actually have not had a lot of say. Um another issue that I found is that they come into the units, it's unscheduled. You know, they you could be in the shower and they're coming in to do bug to spray for bugs. They have no schedule, right? when it comes to that we have no um there are no fire what do you call it extinguishers they have no fire extinguishers available right um and they have an attitude about it the attitude is well you know you need to stay here and what I would like to say to that also is that uh renting to me is actually I'm going to use the word a flex these days okay

because owning property can actually be expensive when it comes to things that are breaking down so rent being making sure that units are appropriate, you know, and ready, clean. I moved into my my unit and they did not go to the on the top of the cupboards. There was trash, debris, the back of the door spray painted hair. I mean, like where they had hairspray. So, it was disgusting. Um, I looked at a lot of housing, a lot of houses here, a lot of properties for rent, you know, and they're partially fixed. They're unclean. The bathroom is broken, yet they demand, you know, $900. Um, in my area, they have a a unit there that is for rent at $1,400. Yet, what what's what are we what are we paying for? We don't have airports here. You know what I'm saying? We don't have major concerts here. what is what is what's that money about? So, I think that there should definitely be maybe a cap on the rent. Maybe they should go by market rate. There should be some kind of enforcement on the amount that they can charge. I believe that we that that's something that should be taken into account. But I stood up here only to say that I think that finally just seeing that um tenants now are actually, you know, going to have some type of rights where they have to come out and they have to make sure the air conditioning is on, you know, that that's important. And I do understand that you need your money. Your rent money is important, sir. What I say to that is evict them. Okay. All right. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you. And you have Let me let me say this here, too. And you have to understand a lot of the the owners be written to their family, man. And and the family treat them worse than anything. You know, they don't want to say nothing about this, Mr. Okay. They allow people to move in and out of like the same unit without new lease agreements. I don't know who I'm living next door to. Okay, that's a problem. So, I understand what you're saying. You know, so that's an issue. Um, first of all, I wanted to thank you for coming out, taking the initiative to come out and speak. Um,

um, I have taken notes on your comments. Um now um the ordinance which I know you're aware of but just for the sake of the viewers the ordinance won't address some of the things that you mentioned like rent pricing rent caps and things like that's beyond the city's purview but I think you're talking about the air conditioning sir that's cleanliness of the property very on point and so I am taking notes and I do thank you for coming. Thank you so much Mr. Fails. I appreciate it. Thank you guys for your time.

Do we have anyone else who would like to come forward and speak? Good evening. My name is Adrienne Cooper and I am a resident of the city of Pine Bluff. I'm not a renter, but I want to commend you uh Mr. Fails for bringing this ordinance um before the city. I um have been sort of appalled by the some of the properties that I've seen where people are actually living in them and renting in them and I was only recently became aware that we didn't have standards in the state for livability and so being able to put something in the city if you want the city to grow if you want the city to to thrive then people have to have decent housing and while I understand I've been a landlord myself and so I certainly understand the need to collect the rent, the need to to repair, but if you have a strong lease agreement in place, then you can mitigate some of those challenges that uh that people have been talking about and bringing bringing forward. But I want to stand here today and and say that I am wholly in favor of an ordinance that provides safe and clean and secure housing for renters in the city of Pineluff.

Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you for taking your time to come out and join us this evening.

Hello, my name is Angela Whitesmith and I am a realtor. Um, I also own rental property here in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. So, I do want to address a comment that was made that this uh ordinance proposal is about more than um heat, water, air, and electricity. You're right. It is more more than that because it actually has HVAC. It has um some plumbing um which we I said plumbing and the roof. That was the other thing that I didn't mention last time. So, I I want to share a story of a property that I I wasn't the listing agent for it, but there was a a home that was sell for sale on 27th. The exterior of the home is beautiful. Um, it was for sale. I took a couple clients through, actually, I took one client through it. In the bathroom upstairs, there was a soaking tub. It had a live wire across the tub. This home stood on the market for over a year. It never sold. what ended up happening. The house went under rent. And anytime I've passed a house, I always think there was no point at which an inspection was done for a renter. And this proposal doesn't even include that, but there was a live wire over a bathtub. Over a bathtub. And this individual rented that home in that condition because if she if she didn't fix it to sell, she surely most likely I cannot say that didn't fix it to rent. So I am absolutely in favor of this ordinance because I've seen too I've seen inside of too many homes working as a realtor and then working with buyers who are trying to leave their home. I've seen who are ready to buy. I've seen a lot of the reasons why they're ready to buy because they are in these rental

properties that they have been paying rental on and the landlord isn't providing the basic standards. I am a landlord. I just lost a big amount of money that's still making me sick to my stomach over what somebody just did to a house. They had got burned out. I let them come live in my house um in a rental property and it's destroyed. So it happens to all of us, but I am a landlord by choice. You do not have to be a landlord. If this is not if you don't have the stomach, the resources, the constitution for this, you can go do something else. It's that's the truth. But people need a place to stay. So I am in favor. I do I think it should be stronger. The things that I would like to see in there would probably make people's heads spin, but I think this is a place to start.

Well, excuse me. That's what we're trying to get to the the next level. We got to get off that bottom level. Everything we do pound doesn't have to be third rate. Well, this is the bottom level because it says minimum housing standards. Yeah.

That means a roof that doesn't have a tarp as a repair on it. That's not a tarp is not a repair. If your roof is leaking right now, people say, "Well, oh, if they don't like the conditions, they can move." Who wants to move? I don't want to move. Nobody wants to pack. You can only invite your friends so many times and pay for pizza for them to move. It's expensive. So sometimes people are they are legit legitimately stuck in these homes and they don't have the resources or a credit, you know, card that they can use. If you're living check to check, it is very hard to move.

So this is this is basic and it really saddens me that we're even having to have this conversation. It it saddens me and I just don't understand it. You're we're we're making money or else we would not do this, right? And this is basic.

You're right. You're right. No, she's right. Hey, uh may I say something else? Mr. Mr. Grant Williams back there, he he's a property owner. That man has some good property that he he leases out and and perfect. And he's not ashamed to have somebody to come look at it. Am I right? I mean I mean if you gonna own the property, fix it. Thank you, Mr. Maize. And thank you, ma'am, for taking your time to come out and speak to this, Miss Angel. Do we have anyone else who would like to speak? See, let me let me say this here. Fails. We shouldn't even get this point in this city. This like this like going back. This is like going backwards. We We got to bring it up and get everything up on another level. That bottom level, I'm not there no more. We have to come up.

Council member Fails, if I could just make a couple of points since people have um stated their concerns and I know you're going to summarize that. Um, I just also wanted to say for the record that we do have an airport and that we had Lesie Jones here and cool in the gang and John Legend is coming. So, you know, stay tuned. Okay. [laughter] I'm just saying.

I'm just saying. Okay. Um, but aside from that, I know that we have heard over the course of several meetings really what boils down to specifics that should be um outlined in the ordinance. Um, and I would tend to agree with that. But I also think that there should be a companion resolution that outlines further specifics as to how um the city departments my office would ensure that the ordinance is properly um implemented and administered. The other thing though, um, because I think it has been said here tonight, is that, um, you know, land property owners who do make the investment want their rent. I've been in that position before. Um, and they don't just want their rent, they need their rent in order to maintain these minimum standards. Um, in order to do more than minimum standards. And I also think that the responsibilities for ensuring that properties be maintained and clean rests not only with the property owner but also with the renters. And when we talk about doing something that the state doesn't even do. Now there are few cities who do this and I think do it well. And I think that it would serve us well to um communicate with those cities that are already doing this. um whether we do it you know as a part of the implementation and administration of what we would do as a city. But the bottom line is we need to manage expectations because with everything that we do in policy it comes with a cost whether it's in time a cost

to the city a cost to property owners a cost to renters. Um, so I just want us to be diligent about that and diligent about communication, um, and diligent about expectations because I've heard and and you've been careful to correct that this is not an ordinance that would allow people to make complaints about how clean a property is. This is about minimum standards around plumbing, electrical, water, roof, um, heating and air. And is it heating and air? It says HBAC. Okay. So, heating and air

I'm sorry

and and pests. uh and I'm sure that you will clarify that in your summary, but I think just in the purpose of um you know a town hall in whatever um committee or council meeting uh in the future we need to be very very clear and specific about all aspects of this so that there are no unintended consequences. I do think we need to do this, but I also think that we need to do it absolutely right. And I commend you for bringing this. I commend everyone for making your concerns um and positions known. I think this is how this is unfortunately the um sausage making process of good policy. And at the end of the day, if everybody is not completely happy, you probably have ended up with a good piece of legislation. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Mayor, and thank you for um attending this meeting this evening. Um and thank you for your thoroughess throughout this entire process. Um we will begin our summarization of the meeting unless there are any final questions or concerns. Yes, sir. Mr. Franklin.

Good evening. [clears throat] Good evening.

First off, before I even get started, and I say this as a disclaimer every time, um, I believe in safe housing. I believe in adequate accommodations for all Pine Bluff citizens and anybody that does not agree with state law that citizens should not have the bare necessities. Hot water, plumbing, sewer, roof over their head, envelope, HVAC. Anybody that does not agree with that in this building, please raise your hand right now. Everybody wants the same thing. The problem is this ordinance is not clear. We held the conversation and I asked you to pull it. You said you weren't slowing it down. You were going to proceed forward and you stand behind it. But as I see you stand behind this ordinance that you put forth and tried to pass. You can't even answer the most simple questions that come along with the questionability of the ordinance. You stated that the judge is going to set the fine. You're wrong. The judge can't do that. That's like saying a county judge or American set a fine. These fines and ordinances and things that are set in the city of Pine Bluff have to be passed by the city council. I don't know of a judge that sets fines for speed limits or anything like that. The judge is judicial. They enforce the laws that are put in place by the lawmakers. Now, you're a councilman and you're giving out the wrong information to people and they're going to be expecting a judge to set fines for something that you proposed. Have you even talked to the district judge about this? Because he would have told you, "I can't set fines. That's not in my job description. I don't have the authority to do that." Secondly, code enforcement already enforces what's on state law. And I don't know if you met Patrick Lockett and the Locket boys

over in his department, but they don't play. And when they make a phone call, regardless of usually whether you're at fault or not, you just get it taken care of, so they'll leave you alone. They're like pit bulls over there. There's quite a few of them. They get it done. I've gotten a couple phone calls. Something beyond my control, wasn't my fault. Nine times out of 10, you go ahead and just take care of it just to make everybody happy. The law stipulates hot water, plumbing, sewer, roof, envelope. But the law also says this, and this is addressing your slum lords. If a person enters a lease and all of these things are not proper and there's a deficiency in either one of them, the landlord may be excused from the law as long as he specifies in the lease agreement the deficiencies. That means that if he puts it in the lease, it's asis, where is he's excused from state law. City law can't supersede state law. You keep saying this is state law. What exact provisions came from Arkansas law? Because in this particular ordinance you have, there's new additions in the law. The additional requirements and the penalties added, all of that's new. It's not state law. We keep hearing this. We're just trying to provide the minimum standards, but this ordinance is anything but the minimum standards. And it's not even really the fact of what the ordinance is asking for and saying, is what it's not saying. It's like a blank check for you to go and just do whatever type of enforcement protocols you want because there no clear boundaries here. Nothing's outlined. You can't even answer the simple questions that people are asking you about the ordinance saying, "We'll figure it out later." I was a legislator for eight years. several legislators over there, over here. Nobody's trying to hear we're gonna fix a law and we'll make it better once we figure out how to do it. That doesn't work for us. Especially when you're talking about landlords and their

livelihood and people who have poured millions and millions of dollars into properties and just for somebody to come and say, "Hey, we're going to try this and see if it works. And if it don't, we'll come back and fine-tune it." That doesn't work for us. You compare yourself to Little Rock. The ordinance in Little Rock that they passed, they had a meeting. They had a stakeholder meeting. They sat down with the landlords. They all went over it. There's things and nuances and things that go on that you couldn't possibly understand. Are you a homeowner? Are you a landlord? You can't understand what we're going through. And we asked you to come to the table. And I'm going to be honest with you, this whole meeting here.

It feels very disingenuous. And I'm not saying that you are. I'm saying that's how it feels because I spoke in front of a city council meeting twice

and I laid out the issues. I did what my mayor told me to do. She gave me a responsibility. Look at the ordinance, create a report, report back to us. I did that. I stayed up all night. I put forth a nine-page report. Did you read the report? What changes did you get from that? Because if you read it, you still tried to push forth the same ordinance that was flawed. and you knew it was flawed, but yet you wouldn't change lanes or even stop for a second to consider what other stakeholders had to do with it, how it would affect them. Now we're at a situation where it's been tabled and now you want to hold a town hall meeting like you care about what people say when you didn't in the first place. You said in the meeting, it's been read twice. It hasn't been rushed. We're moving on with it. Where are the tenant responsibilities? Where does this ordinance require tenants to keep the property clean and sanitary, not cause damage, not introduce pets, allow access for repairs, continue paying rent with no withholding? Because state law requires that. Why are landlords regulated while tenant duties are not clearly enforced? You look at the Little Rock ordinance, they have tenant responsibilities right there. what tenants are responsible for. You can't just call the city with the complaint if you don't meet the criteria. There is no criteria in this ordinance for a tenant to meet before they can just call the city. If a tenant caused a problem, pest or damage, will a landlord still be cited a fin? What if we're in the middle of an eviction evicting a tenant for non-payment and something breaks, but we're in the process of evicting them and they still haven't paid rent? There's no provisions for that. the fines in the escalation. How does up to $1,000 and $500 per day work in practice? What caps or

safeguards prevent runaway penalties? What protections exist for contractor delays? Parts availability. Tenant refusal to cooperate to provide access. I just heard from a tenant that says she rent from a rental company. We won't say her name again, but she said her air went out. That happens. May have been on her side. may have been on their side, but we'll just say it was on the landlord's side. Sometimes if the air goes out, they can't get the part. The parts on back order. I'm a homeowner. It's happened to me. I've had to wait. Sometimes you have insurance on properties. American Home Shield. It may take 30 to 60 days just to get a part, but they're in the process of getting it fixed. These things happen. Sometimes you have local landlords like there's several landlords in here that we keep window units on reserve just because we know how it is. We'll put window units in if the HVAC goes out just because of the simple fact that we live here and we care about our name. We can't hide behind a multi-million dollar name. They know us by our first name. So we go above and beyond. But I get it. We're targeting the slum lords. However, in this lease, if it's as is, where is slum lords are excluded. I want to say that there's vague standards. What do terms like safe and sanitary, reasonable effort mean exactly? Are they objective? Are there written definitions? Is it a checklist? Who decides? And how is consistency insured? Because it's not in that ordinance. Pass it now, fix it later. Why move forward with the known issues with this ordinance when they could be addressed? Why not correct the deficiencies before adoption? It's almost as if you're saying, "Hey, just pass it. We know it's messed up, but we'll fix it. Just trust me. We've been there before on both ends, the tenant and the landlord. We can't just trust you to

pass an ordinance that's not done right and that the stakeholders didn't have any comment on that's going to judge how they're moving forward doing business. The stakeholder input. How many landlords were consulted? Why weren't landlords meaningfully introduced into the drafting of this ordinance? Impact on housing supply. Has the city analyzed the impact rental availability, screening standards, small landlords existing in the in the market? And somebody had they gave me a comment. They said, "Well, you should screen your tenants better." Well, when you screen a tenant, they come in, they fill out application, they show you the background that they can afford the apartment, they look good, they view it, the apartment, you get a good feel for them, and you let them sign a lease. I'm going to give you a comparison. As a HR director, a person will look at the applications. You pick out the best one. They look good on paper. You bring them in for an interview. Oh man, flawless interview. Great. They look great. They interview great. They know all the key words to say this is a good employee. Then you hire them and two weeks later, come to find out, they're employee from hell. It's the same thing with a tenant. They can get through the screening process. They know how to get through the screening process. They know all the scams. They know all the strings to pull. They know all the levers to pull to delay. If you're in the middle of eviction process, they'll see this as another lever that they can pull to buy some more time. Rental availability, screening standards, small landlords still existing in this market. It's going to make it hard on everybody. prices are going to go up because I have a feeling this ordinance doesn't just stop at the four or five things that are required by state law because if that's what it was, it would strictly say these are the things that are required by law. Here are the fines. This is how much it's going to say and it would move on. But

it's very broad terms and a broad scope on what is actually policing. It's open-ended. The major concerns is the limits on the city enforcement. Where is the stop gap? This ordinance must clearly limit what the city can enforce. Stop gap protections must be included. If a condition, a violation, or a standard is not expressly defined in this ordinance, it shall not be subject to enforcement, citation, or penalty by the city. Why this matters? Without clear limits, enforcement begins and becomes open-ended. It doesn't stop with what you actually say in this ordinance. Broad terms can be expanded over time. New categories. The second reading. I spoke against this ordinance and you said blight. Blight was I don't recall it being mentioned in this ordinance, but you let that slip out as a rebuttal to my statement. I didn't address it then because I only had three minutes. And I'm trying to figure out what does blight have to do with state law and what they're regulating and what you have in this ordinance. But this ordinance is open to cover blight. It's open to cover a whole lot of other stuff that somebody behind a desk and code enforcement or whoever decides, hey, we're going to go after this because it's not addressed. This is just a blank check for you to do what you want to do. And that's a problem for landlords because these issues are not addressed. This creates a situation where a violation can be decided at a desk. Penalties can be added beyond what was approved in this ordinance. Requires safeguards is what should be in this ordinance. Enumerated violations only. A closed list of what you're going to be enforcing. No enforcement beyond written standards. Clear definitions for each violation. We need to know what the violations are. Protection for tenant

cause conditions. We need written notice to the landlord before any city action. We need reasonable cure periods before any fine. We need caps and structure on the fines. We need to know what these fines are before they're approved. Like I said, a judge can't make up these fines. This is a city council decision. This needs to be included in this packet. We need to know before we call our council person and say, "Hey, we're getting behind this ordinance now is correct." That needs to be lined out. This is not a we'll figure it out later type thing. We've been down that road before and we're not going to do that. We have the right to appeal and the right to review any fines that are issued to landlords. And the bottom line is this. This ordinance is not just state law. It's a one-sided. It's unclear. It creates significant financial risk for landlords and it lacks clear limits on enforcement power. Safe housing matters, but so does fairness. If it's not written, it [clears throat] shouldn't be enforced. State law includes safeguards. This needs them, too. You can't regulate one side and ignore the other. Clarity protects everyone. Vagueness creates risk. I heard the young lady say, "A lot of times families can't afford to move." You know, I said this before. We live in a small town. We know who the slum lords are. You know who the bad landlords are. When you choose to go and rent, just like we do our background on tenants, they should do their background on landlords. I support an ordinance for safe housing. I want you to know that everybody in this room supports an ordinance for safe housing. But the way that this thing is wrote and written up, it's a Trojan horse. Go ahead and accept it. And then

it expounds out to all of this other stuff that you didn't talk about doing. And that's an issue for me because I know how to read. And it's not about what it says, it's about what it's not saying. So until you can give me a list of exactly what the violations are and how much they're going to be and how much the fines are and what the tenants are responsible for. You can't get my support on this ordinance. I don't think you're going to be able to get any landlord support on this. And there's a whole lot more landlords than what's in here tonight. A lot of them just entrusted to come in here and voice their concerns to you through me. We need to come to the table and fix it. I don't want this meeting to turn into, well, we had a town hall meeting and we heard from the people and then you bring this thing right back like you did before and just push it through. That's not what we're interested in. I heard what everyone over here said and I agree with all of them. I heard what the people over here said. I agree with all of them. This didn't even have to be an issue if you'd have just brought the landlords to the table like all the other cities do and iron this thing out and make sure that it's fair. We want to do our part. I'm not a slord. I'm not worried about you coming after me. But the problem is the things that the problems that I didn't cause. I'm worried about those things coming after me. Tenant moves in with roaches. Now the landlord's responsible. A lot of times you can't get rid of the bugs until you get rid of the tenant. That that that's just reality. But now we can be fined up to $1,000 for it and $500 each day. I didn't do it. Tenant breaks a faucet. Now we're responsible for it. Of course, we're going to go and fix the faucet anyway because we don't want it to flood out the house. But you get my point. Abandoned car in the yard, no tags on it. You passed an abandoned car ordinance, did you not? And and there's still abandoned cars and yards all over the

place. I could give you a list of them, but now under this new ordinance, the landlord can be held responsible. Blight, may not be your intention, but the way that this is written, it leaves it open for that. And so that trust me, I know what I'm doing. We got it. That just don't work for us. So, I'm just asking you one more time, bring us to the table. Let's sit down, hash this out because obviously you're after something else or want to enforce something else. Otherwise, all this wouldn't be in the ordinance. It would be simple. State statute. We're adopting it. Here's a list of violations. Here's the fines if it's not fixed. And at the least before a tenant should be able to call the city, they should have already had to follow Arkansas law and give the landlord notice and the landlord has 30 days to fix it. Thank you, Mr. Franklin. Thank you.

We Uhuh. Uhuh. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Back and forth. Y'all can do that offline. After the meeting after the line, after after the meeting offline, we not because once you do that, we lose control of the meeting. So, okay,

it is 7:25. So, I do want to bring us to a conclusion. Um, I'm not going to ignore your points, Mr. Franklin. I just want to summarize first and um, thank you for um, coming to this meeting. First of all, thank you for your service to the county, to our community, and you have been at every meeting. We don't necessarily agree with each other on this ordinance, but I do appreciate your engagement and Pine Bluff could be better if you know all of our citizens were as engaged as that. Um, we have heard a lot of comments from landlords as well as from residents. Um, I believe some of the major points that we have heard and if I'm missing anything, please know this meeting is being recorded and so I will go back and review the footage just to make sure I am including all the feedback that was heard here tonight. But I'm sorry, you had a comment. Okay, if you could come to the mic and you will be our last public statement. They want to do children writing on the wall tearing up stuff, things like that. I feel like if they would do inspections and put that in the lease agreement, that might some of the bad tenants from even want to rent to them or lease from

them because they say, "Well, if I got to live over here, he or she is going to be coming in inspecting the property." So sometimes tenants, they know if their kids are bad or if you know their boyfriend is punching holes in the walls or whatever, you know, having different people stand on that. But I feel like, you know, um that it might be necessary for the um landlords to get more involved with their own property, you know, as far as for doing inspections on the property while the tenant is living. The tenant may not like it, but I mean that's all I had to say, right? Yeah.

Thank you, Miss Young. I do appreciate that feedback from him. Thank you as well for coming out to this meeting this evening. Um, so I believe some of the major points that we've heard from our landlord's president is that you would like to see more language within the ordinance that does address tenant responsibilities and just make sure that we're holding standards for people who occupy these houses as well as for the people who are leasing them out, the tenants. Um, also just making sure that this addresses things such as um, rent, their obligations under state law to um, do things like monitor rent, I mean pay their rent on time and things of that nature. Um, those are definitely things that can be addressed and revised within the ordinance. um this evening and between this evening and in the morning I will put some notes together and send that out to our city attorney um as well as the other council members so that we can get that revised. Um I do want to clarify a couple of things that were mentioned in terms of the judges not being able to set fines. So I am well aware that as a legislative body we make the laws. So we can it's in our power to say there's going to be a fine for this for violating this law. But I mean judges they set fines all the time once the legislative body has actually created a fine for a particular violation. Um there is a couple of more things. Um in terms of parts being delayed, contract delays. I am well aware that whenever you know you're repairing things, sometimes issues do come up. things don't always happen on a schedule, especially in the world of construction. We are very intentional within this ordinance to say that we're not just going to find somebody if there's if a violation exists as long as they're making a reasonable effort to bring that violation within compliance. Our code enforcement department will

work with them so that we don't have to issue fines. Um, also there was a comment about how I mentioned blight and that this ordinance would be used to address blight. This is not this ordinance is not being used to address general blight within the city. Everything this ordinance is will be governing and regulating is spelled out specifically within the ordinance. It's available for all the residents to read. But when I made that comment within the city council meeting, um the general point is that in Pineluff, it's no secret that we have an issue with blight in general. And if we want to turn our city around, we have to transform the culture. We have to make this a culture of accountability. And that starts with us as elected officials holding residents, business owners, whoever it may be in the city accountable to do what's right, to follow the law, to provide decent, safe accommodations. And this ordinance doesn't address all of that, but it's a part of changing that culture and making PLO a better place and improving the quality of life. Um, I believe the vehicles were mentioned. This ordinance is not being used to um enforce vehicles that are out in yards. This is beyond the purview of that ordinance. Um however um there were some other um good comments that were made and like I said, we will be addressing that. Um including the one about how the tenants can whenever they move into the house and they choose to accept it as is, they are choosing to accept the condition of the house at that point. I'm well aware of that. that's within act 1054 that was passed by the state legislature. I think an ordinance like this would be more relevant for once they move in and after they've accepted the condition of the housing unit. Let's just say conditions arise after they've chosen to accept it. So I do think it still applies in that situation. And then there was another comment about, you know, we'll pass this now and then

we'll iron out the kinks later. that has never come out of my mouth. Um, I do believe that the council will be able to put forth a good ordinance that does address all the relevant issues on the front end that will give our mayor and the departments the ability to enforce it. Um, but I will be working with you as well, mayor. If you do want to do that additional ordinance to spell out the standard operating the resolution to spell out the standard operating procedures, I'm more than supportive of us doing that. Yeah. So, uh that's pretty much the general summary. Um I do want to thank everyone for coming out today on a Monday evening. You didn't have to do so, but you did so because you cared about your city. So, thank you very much. And we'll have updates on this pretty soon. Thank you. So pretty.