Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

All

[clears throat] right, I'd like to call the meeting to order at 601. I'm sorry, just opening the meeting, not order, but we are going to start. Uh, and hopefully we'll get one more so that we can meet quorum. Uh, so I'll let you all kick it off. I know we're here to talk about the UDC updates. Oh, was it? [laughter]

All righty. We are [clears throat] operational here.

I don't know what I just did. Oh, there we go. All right. It came up. Uh so good evening. I'm Chance Sparks with Freezen Nichols uh one of the principal shareholders with the firm and also going to be leading the development code uh update project uh for y'all. So this is the first advisory committee meeting. Uh we do recognize that uh there's uh only so much time that we have before you have your regular planning and zoning commission meeting uh this evening. Uh I am joined today by Erica who's our assistant project manager as well as Laura and Evan uh two of our folks that are going to be working on this with us. Uh so we're going to walk through a very brief uh presentation just to orient you to what we're going to be working on with this. Uh but our goal really this evening is to get some feedback from y'all. uh what's important, where do we need to be investing our energy uh as we start going through this process of revising your development code uh and and perspectives from maybe you are part of the diagnostic effort uh for this or things that you've learned since then, things that you're passionate about, things that you see every day that maybe either frustrate you or delight you uh in your in your community. So, that's going to be the the main focus. Uh again this is kind of the overall org chart. We're also working on a second project at the same time. It's your engineering criteria manual. Uh I have a rule about this which is if you are doing a development code and an engineering manual at the same time. I will praise that every single opportunity I get in a public setting because that is a big deal to do those at the same time. Uh because oftentimes you update one and it doesn't talk to the other very well or vice versa. Um there's many times you adopt a new development code and your engineering manual actually works against it if you haven't coordinated it. So doing these two things together is somewhat rare and something to be commended for. So I want to make sure we give that that those prompts here. So you're an advisory committee for this.

Uh it's actually a mixed advisory committee. So you have your commission plus a few additional folks that have been added to help round out the perspectives uh of the of the committee. Your role when you really boil it down is to kind of be our conscience uh as we work through this as as the you know professional designers, professional writers on this because no matter how much time we spend here, y'all have spent much more time here. You know your community better uh you know what your sticking points are from various meetings you've been at. So you're going to be that that kind of that policy uh ethos for us as we go through and bring a lot of different types of perspectives into the conversation. uh for the city staff and the Frieza Nichols team, we're just looking simply let's make these regulations clear, fair, and a lot more effective in a teach in achieving your various plan goals and objectives. Basically, take this idea of what you want Flugerville to be in the future and set up your development regulations so that your developers, your your private property owners can be a partner in helping you get there along the way. So, it's a three-phase timeline. It is a brisk timeline as development code writing goes. Uh, we're kind of in this initiation phase. This is the getting to know you. Um, and reviewing all of your existing documents. We're walking into this with you having already done an initial diagnostic report, uh, which is we say is kind of the recipe book. Lets us know here's what we need to cook as we are working through this code. uh we'll from that there we'll go into the drafting phase. The way we approach drafting the code is we break it into pieces. We call them modules because one thing we have learned writing code is that it is profoundly unfair to go and huddle for 12 months and come back and drop 500 pages of document on you and tell you good luck. So we try to break this into pieces that make sense that

are digestible along the way. During this, we'll have some different engagement opportunities. Doing community engagement and public engagement is different for a code. Uh codes are inherently very technical, which means if you're talking to the public, you need to talk in their terms and how they understand uh the the environment that they're working in. So, oftentimes we say you don't want to ask them about specific setbacks or, you know, a specific roadway width or something like that. You actually want to engage them in how do they experience the world around them and use that information to apply it into the code. That way you're engaging them what things that they care about. You're just asking them, hey, 20 foot or 25 foot setback. You know, by the time you've actually gotten that sentence out, they've kind of glazed over. So, we want to make sure they're engaging in the right way. Then we get into an adoption phase. This becomes a public review space uh where we'll have the document posted some uh good approaches for commenting on it. uh some open houses, things like that. Along the way, you see a couple of joint workshops. One thing we have also learned in code drafting is uh every public deliberative body likes having a little extra time with these. Um they know it's a big deal and so we build that into the the process along the way. So again, your your uh assessment report that I think you've got a copy of it in your packet. Uh we've highlighted some key provisions out of this that we think are probably the most transformative, where you'll see the most activity in the revising process. Uh this includes an emphasis on housing diversity. Um seeing uh finding paths where you're getting more than just essentially apartments and single family detached homes with not much in between. It's filling in that gap. Missing middle housing is how you usually hear that phrased. Uh thinking about density and flexibility. Uh so as it stands right now, some of your

districts are pretty rigid. Um so the way that tends to manifest is you'll see it show up as various kinds of discretionary approvals, uh plan unit developments, things like that when you might be better off trying to find more prescriptive pathways with flexibility where you're getting to the same high quality at the end, but maybe it's a more diverse approach to that quality. Um mixed use development. Um, this is something that was highly emphasized within your planning efforts. Um, this is looking at some of the provisions you already have, your corridor districts, and finding ways to apply those beyond and into uh a more citywide context uh that thinks about how can you make your existing neighborhoods more livable uh while also still promoting that stability that people seek in their neighborhoods. Pretty fine line to get to walk. uh looking at some of your just very basic development standards. It's thinking about how should you approach minimum parking ratios. Uh it's thinking about how you should approach landscaping. Um particularly in light of water conservation needs, uh water supply pressures, things like that. Uh but also recognizing that you your for example your your your uh growing zone under you know USDA and things like that has changed. making sure that your plant list, things like that are aligned to a successful outcome where your all your landscaping doesn't die every five years. Not a great feeling. And then simple usability and organization. This is making sure that uh that from your code structure and standpoint, it's designed around what we call a user experience or a customer experience space. Uh when you really scratch and look at complaints you hear about codes, oftentimes it has less to do with a specific regulation and a lot more to do with procedures or how easy it is to find the answer along the way.

We often say that code should seek to be simple. Simple does not mean weak. Simple means easy to understand, easy to apply uh as you go forward. So uh there we go. Oops. So, what we're going to do is kind of kick off a discussion uh because my goal for this, you know, next 15 minutes is that I'm not doing a lot of talking and y'all are uh is to kind of break the ice a little bit uh on this. Uh we'll also talk through any of those topics that we kind of touched on already, but I'd really like for this to be getting that feel from you or of what's important. So it's, you know, what are the things that you like about your code that are working really well? Or if you're not as familiar with the code itself, what are the places that you've seen that are positive, desirable developments where you said where you kind of say, we don't know how we got there from a regulatory space, but we like that result. Can we code for that? Um, things that you've seen when you go to other places. Um, I'm pretty confident that you don't spend every waking hour every day in Flugerville. you know, what have you seen elsewhere that you think, man, that seems like that would work well here. Um, and then any things that you just see from working through codes that could be improved upon. What I usually encourage a commission to think about are what were some of those long meetings that you sat through? What were the topics? Because that's usually pretty indicative of where to spend a little energy in your code. All right. So, with that, I'm going to clam up here and give y'all an opportunity to to start laying into us and telling us what's important to y'all.

You want to go? Oh, no. Go ahead.

All right. Uh, yeah. I think, you know, a few things that I've heard um very loudly from the community, and I do sort of separate out different segments of the community. Um, one in particular that I believe has not gotten enough attention, though you obviously mentioned some of it here, is our younger folks looking for that pathway to ownership. Uh, so for example, on one of your slides, I saw um, uh, build to rent, and I actually think that's something we would want to disincentivize. I think we would much rather have um, stronger but more flexible um, housing options um, that provide a path to ownership as opposed to more additional neighborhoods. I think we only have a handful right now. Um, but obviously the market is is asking for those. Um, I would like to keep that to a, you know, a minimum. Um, so that's one thing. Um, you know, on [clears throat] the housing side, I think that, um, as we start to see more redevelopment in the, um, core, uh, especially in Oldtown, um, we've had a few cases come through about that. And so I think thinking about what is going to be appropriate for folks that are wanting to redevelop here.

Um you know there's always the debates over neighborhood character versus you know getting more density and that sort of thing. But I think there's um more opportunity there in terms of um both flexibility and setting you know guidelines and providing examples to folks of what these different concepts might you know look like especially from a public communications perspective. Um, you know, I think that from a, uh, from a business or commercial perspective, um, a couple of the most common complaints that I hear from the development community include the parking minimums, of course. Um, you know, I would say like probably as recent as like six months ago, I was kind of on the fence of whether we should just get rid of all of them or do special zone for downtown um with, you know, reduced or um rebates or other sort of clever ways of managing that or just reducing it. Um, but I'd say over the last few months, it just it seems like getting rid of the minimums is is the right answer. Um, uh, so that is one. Um the other thing that I hear about is from uh so Flur has a lot of entrepreneurs and small business owners. Um one of the highest uh in in the region and what I hear from them is that they both desire more guidance on what they can do um and more flexibility with what they can put in. I'll give you an example of, you know, neighborhood scale retail or coffee shops, things like that. they may want a drive-through window, but our drive-thru restrictions actually require quite a bit of space, and we may not have those, especially on the west of 130 in the infill lots. Um, which is a great place to um to bring in more commercial development because I think the latest stat I heard was something like 30% of our acreage west of 130 is still undeveloped. And guess what? We have infrastructure there already. We've got roads, right? We've got water, we've got all of those things. So, it actually is substantially less expensive. and we're really not doing much to encourage um

that type of scale um which would also help with our uh density. Um and then I think just as a matter of course across things um one of the other pieces that I've been thinking about and I think we talked about this during the diagnostic as well was providing additional opportunities for fasttrack approvals. Um, you know, when you think about incenting both that missing middle housing, uh, as well as on the commercial side, how do we make sure that, you know, we've got whether it's the, uh, you know, building code and getting, you know, the design requirements like you were saying in a way that they can just plop it right into their plans and we know that we're just going to pretty much check the box and move things quickly. Um, one of my big concerns is that we have some of the highest impact fees in the area as well. Um, so I don't see a lot of opportunity necessarily, and I'm sure the other cities around us will catch up to that um, as they continue to build out their own cities. Um, but I think one of the things we need to lean into from an economic development perspective is making sure that well, if we're charging those fees, we should be as streamlined as possible and make it as clear as possible to the market what we want to see built. And so whether that is additional, you know, sort of templated plans, whatever that however that manifests, um I think that would be really powerful us um sort of non-cash incentives, right, to to get folks to develop the types of things that we want. Um so that's something I've been thinking a lot about. Um I I think those are big ones. There's a bunch of like little tactical things like we have a somewhat ridiculous um apartment bedroom ratio rules right now that restricts even for the apartments that we do get. Um [snorts] uh so I think that's something that probably just needs to go away. I understand the policy decision was when they added that several years ago. Um but I think looking at our community now, those reasons aren't valid anymore. So that's a very tactical thing. Um but

uh one example um without going into a ton of detail uh our school district uh passed a bond year or two ago to do um teacher subsidized housing and they ran into issues um and I know city staff worked very closely with them and all those things. ended up actually moving that development outside of the city limits to avoid things like that bedroom ratio because we have teachers with families and they might want a three-bedroom uh apartment in the subsidized um teacher housing with the school district. And so a practical example of um you know that was a that was a project that we would all would have loved to have been in here, right? The whole point is staff teachers

uh and first responders and everybody else able to live here. So um I you there's probably any number of tactical things like that. I'll I'll pause though. I've been taking up the air in the room. Yeah, mine are more like questions throughout your thing versus diverse like as diverse as as Jonathan said. So, do you want um Well, I mean, going back to like the the mixed housing usage, I mean, I think I would I mean, you have it in here on page 13, unlike the manufactured homes and those kind of allowances

that that type of build or that type of property allows for a more, you know, homeownership even rentorship because it's very expensive to rent as well. Um, so mobile homes, manufactured homes, modular homes, those things would be nice and like re adding them to a different zoning or adding them to like multif family CL3. I mean, you made all these recommendations throughout

um or like single family, mixed use, something like that. Um, and then yeah, also landscaping. Seems like landscaping is pretty high here. Like we need more landscaping. We need less landscaping. Maybe more zeroscaping, native flowers, drought resistant, you know. Um, there's even like a request or a suggestion about turf replacement.

So, I think some of those things would be great. Um, because we need to save our water, keep our water. It's very expensive. our water bills are very high, the prices are high. Um those things, but I mean I can go deeper involved in that. And then um like keeping general retail, general business. I mean we need more commercial here. Um all of our taxes and all of the monies are basically raised by us residents,

not commercially. And so we don't I know we're a bedroom community, but we do need commercial and so and like we need a downtown district. Um and I know we're building stuff now, but like we still have that whole downtown area where we can kind of make all one to six blocks almost all, you know, either a work from home or a retail center or a nice little I don't know, anything. Mhm. We have like four things here in that section. We have more, but like in that section to be more like Round Rock or Georgetown. I mean, I go to Georgetown all the time. It's just nice to walk around the square. So, basically that would save us tax money, things like that. Um

to kind of riff on that a little bit too, I think, you know, one of the things that we should think about balancing in terms of incentive structure within the code and and zoning as well is that um to that point, so we get there's a ton of demand and and folks in the community are complaining almost all the time that our neighboring towns are getting the restaurants. Now, from an economic development perspective, not a lot of jobs. Restaurants don't actually pay all that much in taxes. Um and so we still need um you know like commercial commercial u retail and other opportunities. So I think like a night life here. Yeah. I mean eventually people age out like I do want to go out [laughter]

my children are old. Yeah. So things like that that would bring in money. I mean you don't have to attend right. Yeah. Do you all have anything that you would like to add as well? Are doing are we going first or kind of anyone? No, feel free to jump in.

I mean, I think mine are maybe a little bit more a little bit less technical. I'm still learning a lot of the different kind of priorities based off of things that come to plan and zoning. This is my first, you know, 10 months um on plan and zoning, but I was on parks and um parks commission prior to this. One thing that I love that we have is is the trails. I think it would be really awesome to have trails that connect a little bit better to businesses. I I think that trails are a really uh wellused part of our city, especially along Gillan Creek. And it's it's really exciting that you know as we expand downtown and as um you know places open up in downtown hopefully can be used in creative ways that it there hopefully there'll be some of that connectability. But I think that's really exciting. It would be cool if there was more along the trails though. Trails are truly like an a nature experience instead of an actual commercial experience. So, it would be nice if that was thought of a little bit more.

You know, I think just to add on to that a little bit as well, um, you know, one of the areas where that I think we've gotten ourselves into trouble with, and I know we're not talking about fees, but our fee in L with the parks department contends up pretty frequently in terms of we've got these pretty dense areas of town now, especially with apartments, etc. that have popped up and they don't have green spaces because they bought the bought it back. Um, and so I think to your point about landscaping and design and then also with trail and parks access, I think that's something to consider um from a probably a design perspective as well as just what we're what we're trying to encourage.

So we need to make sure that you know uh we are known for our green spaces and we have fantastic green spaces um and we need to make sure that everyone actually has access to those. Um yeah, agreed. Agreed. In Louis of is pretty at the very least is very low um for for what our property value is. Um and then also um related to landscaping the mozzones reducing mozzones um then you can have more pollinators um so that's a good budget budgetary thing but also just

um yeah I mean those are some of my initial thoughts. I I don't know if this is going to be a popular statement. I don't know if people feel the same about this development but I really love the Wilberger um neighborhood. I like the setup of that. I don't know if that's going to be a popular statement to make, but I do I I I run a lot. I bike a lot, and I I really love the setup of that neighborhood. I think it's nice that it it has smaller lots. Um, and I feel like it's it is relatively dense, but then it also has really cool trail connectivity within it. It would be pretty cool if there's more things like that that also have um more mixed use. Like, it'd be cool if there was actually businesses within that neighborhood. I feel like it would be a a pretty cool model for a neighborhood.

You know, one of the things that I I know we've we've talked about before very much related to that is that um you know, Flugville is um one of, if not the most diverse community in central Texas. And one of the things that that makes more challenging is to have a collective um citywide sort of vision and feel and neighborhoods. And so, um, we've actually seen a lot of excitement around some of those newer developments that are built more like an proper neighborhood. Um, and, uh, there's been a lot of excitement about like the cottage courts. Um, I think do we have one maybe two of those in right now?

Um, and so those types of concepts I think really play well into our community's diversity in a way that communities can form um, their own, you know, sense of neighborly uh, within their area. Yeah. a more sense of like district would be kind of cool too. Like I don't know. I I feel like there there's a lot of cities that have a little bit more of like defined areas that have like character and have certain types of businesses within it and it would be interesting to have a little personality within neighborhoods and areas. Yeah. Yeah. but not over on [laughter]

right Christian I was going to mention I saw that exterior lighting standards is mentioned in here as a recommendation and to clarify apologize because I'm very new to this whole commission but um I'm currently on the parks commission but um are these recommendations ones that were put forth by PCC or is that by your firm Uh so the recommendations that goes down well just just like the recommendations in the exact summary.

Yeah. And that in that summary so uh soil you know about I guess year ago or so uh brought in another firm that uh did an assessment of your development regulations. So what you're seeing there is probably their recommendations. Okay. Um and yeah, the reason I mentioned light specifically is I know we have a a subcommittee right now for investigating related to getting dark. I believe Liberty Hill has some formally as well. So we're kind of looking into that, but um we're in the process of kind of revisiting this. it seems to be a good time for us to step up our game and kind of assess you know things like um you know elimination allowances like um

that's definitely something I'd be interested to see whether we could you know collaborate on that and try to develop those plans in concert yeah I would echo similar to what you know Chelsea said regarding trails I mean again I think that's you know the the trail capital of Texas designation is I think something we're all very proud of and want to see. You know, we don't want to lose that title anytime soon. So,

trying to develop around those trails and again, I think as someone who bikes a lot and lives close to, you know, downtown will soon be downtown east. Like, I really enjoy the ability to, you know, bike from my house and have a either designated bike trail or a bike lane. So, again, anything that increases the ability of people to get somewhere without having to use a car is always plus in my book. I pretty much agree with what Chelsea was saying also. Uh what I would like is some of our trails to be able to access not just that area, but sort of like the new downtown area or places that you know get you somewhere on the trail. I like walking on the trail, but if there was a Starbucks at the end of the trail, pretty nice, too. [laughter]

Or mom and pop coffee shop. Yeah, definitely here. Starbucks everywhere. Definitely hearing hearing a theme here another businesses sort of else. Yeah. Well, if we can get the trails going. Yeah. Y'all are thinking about trails beyond recreation and viewing them as like a transportation system, a mobility system. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And and I think it could have a little bit more regional draw. I mean, to the to the point of folks kind of leaving to go to Georgetown, Round Rock, um I think restaurant options, to your point, they're not the the most um um they're not going to give the most in taxes when it comes to commercial use, but then there's sales tax and there's people choosing to remain influ spend money and then to bring people into there. So, I feel like one thing that Flugerville has a challenge with is regional draw. We're not right off of 35. like you have to you have to truly choose to come to Flugerville. You don't just happen to to end up in Flugerville.

Um so I think things that can really think about one, how do we give people who live here um the incentive to stay here, but also how can we get folks from Round Rock, Georgetown, Austin to choose to come to Flugerville? um would be I I think that we're doing already a really good job with the parks department with certain parks that they're coming up with that'll be really really cool spaces that would hopefully get the interest of folks from surrounding areas. But I do think trails like recreationally it's it's awesome for residents, but I do think trails could become even of a larger draw if there's more like commercial type things that you can do within it that that

most people don't even know that Flugerville has the trails that that it has. You know, when I talk to my friends in other areas. Yeah. So, I feel like the more attention we can bring to that, the better. Yeah. kind of what you're describing. There's a a technique called trailor oriented development that is kind of based on that. And uh so that's that's a fun Google search for you later. Um or your your search engine of choice. Um but the uh but that's definitely an opportunity we would see with with y'all. Um we saw that in our tour today of some opportunities to orient development a little bit more towards some of these these public assets and and kind of give them a little bit more a little bit more oomph. You know, we've talked some about restaurants and, you know, yeah, the math on restaurants isn't always perfect, but what restaurants do give you is a lot of identity.

Yeah. Um, in terms of, you know, having things to do here, but also restaurants are one of your best opportunities to celebrate diverse culture. Um, you know, that's an argument I often use as a foodie is, you know, my reason for celebrating diversity is often my stomach, right? And I'm pretty unapologetic about it. Uh so definitely want to bring some of that into how we code for uh finding those opportunities to celebrate kind of what's making Flutterville pretty special.

Yeah. And I I suspect that um this commission [clears throat] and council would would both be interested to see um creative solutions on how to incentivize that, right? whether it's connecting to the trail system for a density [clears throat] bonus or you know thinking about how do we actually encourage folks to do that in a way that um you know keeps it in line with what the vision is. Mhm. On on the foodie subject, I'm guessing also uh see a lot of little food courts trailer and I don't know if we really have any zoning uh included in this for that, but if it could be a little bit more uh planned

uh and and gather them more in a central location to where everybody knew where it could be found. I know we've tried a few times and they've never worked, but yeah, that that's a great point. I think we Yeah. Uh I have heard I don't know how true it is or not that our uh regulations today on things like food trucks are are more stringent than perhaps our neighbors are. So yeah.

Yeah. As a as a person with a with a kiddo, I have driven pretty much anywhere that has like food trucks with a like an outdoor space that kind of makes you feel comfortable bringing kids. And um I' I've always thought that would be a pretty cool thing to have here. A truly intentional um trailer trailer park trailer trailer park. Yeah. [snorts] Other other thoughts, aspirations? Oh, you're looking directly. [laughter]

There's one person that I would love to hear from. Well, um, Chelsea also had made some good points, but also I think in terms of us talking about the the parking, the trails, and the bicycling, just overall the walkability being on the equity commission that has come up has come up a lot like in almost every single listening tour that we have is Flugerville is nice to have break trails. However, just getting around Flugerville is kind of a challenge in terms of walkability u when when you need to when not having car dependency.

Um, another thing that I think is really good is seeing the the proposed expansion of mixed use because one thing that Flugerville is lacking is third spaces. um we could use a lot more of that and I think we can get a more of a draw to people creating those third spaces um if we had a little bit more of expansion of our mixed use. Makes sense. Yeah. And I I appreciate that cuz I I agree that the trails truly are recreational. They are not functional if you need to get somewhere and there's so many times that you're walking and you end up in a place where the sidewalk just ends.

Yeah. or if you want to bike, if you want to have better mobility, um biking that's not recreational, it's really challenging to to bike around Flugerville safely. Safely. Yeah. I mean, taking this place as an example, like I don't think I could I mean, I could bike here, but it would take me a very long roundabout way to go all the way around because there's no I mean, not that I would bike if there was a bike lane on 685 because that's madness. I think I [laughter] think you'd have to have a physical I mean you have to have a physical barrier [laughter] whatever you want a curb you need a curb

um but yeah I mean that's I think obviously some streets are going to preclude themselves from having having that but um you know you got growler bar right over there that's great neighborhood spot but it's kind of a hard spot to get to without driving um so I mean to the point of just I mean even not trails but just sidewalks and places I think

some of the new developments I've seen on 685 five are developing those sidewalks. Again, it's usually limited to their plat. So, you know, if it's just that one section, you know, you could build it out piece by piece. But, um, if there's any way to expand those requirements to, you know, include an area, you know, buffer, you know, set number of feet beyond their their property line. Um, I know that's obviously a very difficult thing to to write, but it's very potential idea. Yeah, we've been hearing it a lot from the disability community of how you really can't even take your scooter and drive and like use all of the sidewalk because it just stops and then you're just riding on grass or cutting through.

Sometimes how we talk about that is the concept, you know, there's ADA compliance and then there's disability affirming. Those are really two very different standards. You know, there's like minimum check the box and then there's like yes, you are welcome here. Yeah. Actually, intentionally. Yeah. Yeah. So, kind of thinking about can we code for ways that maybe take that step beyond into a more affirming attitude towards some of that. That would make a lot of sense. And it literally is an example of the curb cut effect when you actually do that using the sidewalk because everyone benefits from it, right? Yeah. It's usually the great thing about like disability focus is you probably have made things better for everybody in the process. Yeah. Like nobody loses a piece of pie in that conversation. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, we have like the smaller six-foot lots which are being expanded through um some cities and then obviously the landlord the owners of the property will have to increase those if it's in there right away. So that might cost them a little bit, but I'm sure there's an incentive that you can do because like prior to I don't know when the code changed. 2021 I think the code changed to 10 to 12 sidewalks probably something like that. I don't remember maybe. Yeah. 2020 2021. So we used we were allowed or did six foot

and that was it. And now we're expanding to 10 and 12 which is great. And then as you said like when you buy a lot and you start building on it, you have to already account for the 12 foot or 10 foot size box. So that's helping. But yet it it's only per builder. Yeah.

You can't force a land owner to do something on their lot when there's nothing there. So that's hard. But the good news is they have to do it now. You know, I think looking at I'm looking [clears throat] at the slide here of some of these other topics as well. You know, with the corridor districts and mixed use specifically, you know, obviously [snorts] the market has changed substantially in the last couple of years um is [snorts] probably going to continue to to do that and make those types of developments less appealing than they've become. Um I think we've already seen some slowdowns. Um, but I think that is still the type of development that we would love to see more of. And so, um, something to consider. I just, you know, sort of putting putting my thumb on the weight of of I do think that that is something that needs some some rethinking given that the math has to make sense on the development side, right? Um, to do those types of things, but we still desperately need that. Yeah.

Um, even if the market isn't screaming for it right now. Not right now, but it it will be. I mean, a slow market changes in a couple of years. And I mean, I mean, I believe we have one too many industrial plants here cuz like industrial brings money from the first beginning, but it doesn't bring a lot of jobs in the middle to end because industrial doesn't need a lot of staff. Yeah.

Typically, so [clears throat] we have just a lot of tilt walls out here. Yeah. Um, so I'd rather see more of a, you know, like, okay, so we'll do the cottage setting here and then we'll do a, you know, typical residential community, then we'll do kind of a mixed use. I mean, it has to be a good flow because not everybody wants to be in a cottage staring across the street at their neighborh and then like I like living in my residential community, but if there were small town homes in front of me, I'd be okay with that. I don't think I'd be okay with and I think most residential owners wouldn't be okay with an apartment complex in front of them at every venture.

Um because I know like I read the whole thing and so I just I'm so fun. Um but [laughter] I read the whole thing and I was just reading by and like I think yeah we right now like our lot sizes for like duplexes like specifically here we have a 9,000 foot duplex lot. Yeah, it really could be changed to 5700. I mean, and then I love the fact that Flugerville already permits ADUs in your backyard. And I'm also not opposed to the smaller ADU being for the primary person that owns the lot and the house and the ADU and then having a renter or a family member be in the front

because there's still design centers, there's still HOA requirements, there's still all those things. Even if you live like on 10th or Walter or whatever and you put a ADU, you still know what your neighbor's house looks like. You're not going to like all of a sudden trash it up. Mhm. Typically, but yeah. So, I mean, I think smaller lot sizes would be better, which would add to affordability. Um, you know, I don't have this size backyard to allow that, but if I did, I'd want to live in a smaller ADU and like live out the remainder part of my years knowing that I should be taken care of by my renter because I paid for this. So, it makes sense and I like that.

Um, like I said, I don't really want and so I sell real so I sell real estate [laughter] and so I and I go to a lot of planning and zoning meetings for my clients. So, I do know what other communities have said about apartments and duplexes and all that because, you know, renters whatever. I don't believe this, but I mean, renters bring down the neighborhood, but if it's a good apartment complex and a good town home or duplex and you've got a great property manager, it everything should be fine. Yeah. Um, so I do agree with those and then some of your other um, so like I think multifamily, what I consider multi family, which is town homes, cottage homes, duplexes, they should be allowed in multif family C, CL3, uh, single family, mixed use, and mobile homes. I also think mobile homes should be allowed more like they're just more affordable. I won't use the word cheaper, but they're more affordable and they're very pretty.

Yeah, there are very there are nice manufactured products out there. It's very hard to find. Like I am searching now for multi for a mobile home land to put nice mobile homes on. There's like nothing. You can't find it. You have to go to like right near Tesla, which is still too far away. If you want to be in the city of Flugerville and go to the schools here, you couldn't do it. So, there has to be more of a mix. It can't all be, you know, brick homes. It can't be all cottage homes. It can't be all duplexes. There has to be a mix because then we can get rid of the build to rents

because I don't it's profitable to the purchase the person who owns it and everybody should make money. not opposed to this, but it has to be something that you can buy your mobile home, live on that land, and feel free or get a bill to rent and then buy your land and then put a mobile home on it and still be in the community and still be in the neighborhood. That also would be great. So, I see it from that point because I see other people wanting these things.

What else? And then we talked about landscaping uh a little bit and like so on commercial properties and I saw the chart like we're at 30%, 15 to 30. It really should be maybe more like 15 20. Um the biggest thing I find horrible about native landscaping is that when it's on the corner and you're trying to turn the corner, it can block. It can block. So, there has to be some way to scooch it over but still be native. Like something somebody has to design something so you're not blind turning the corner. Um, what else? There's plenty of short native plants. I wish

there are short native plants as long as it's not like overgrown. It really needs to be taken care of. And I do agree. We need more sidewalks. Like we need to start working on sidewalks, period. Um, what else did I see in here? Okay. Um, most of it was that. Um, let's see. I guess while you're looking, I'll I'll bring something else up as well. So, one of the

things that I've been um struggling with and our uh amazing staff knows this and you heard me talk about this at a city council meeting is that, you know, uh obviously I know there's a lot of work behind this. I would like for us to figure out a way to send the market signals of what we're intending to change

sooner than when it's ready so that if we have developments that are sitting waiting for these things which I think there are um we could actually show that path so that they could get started um because I think waiting uh like you said the diagnostic was done about a year or so probably over a year now this project is about a year generally speaking a little bit shorter now um but that's two years of us losing out on a lot of potential um goodness for the community. And so I think having your all's ideas or if it's a scope change, I don't whatever. Um

I think putting something together that we can send those market signals and maybe it needs to be official, maybe it needs to be something that's actually voted on and passed um to say, "Hey, our intent is X, Y, and Z. it's not going to be here, but if you got a development for this, bring it to us and we'll work with you, right? Um through an exception [clears throat] process or whatever it is, if it meets, you know, the spirit of where we're trying to go, correct?

Um because I think there's a lot of opportunity and again, I don't want to uh have our beautiful new um modernized code at the end of this year and then have the development community start thinking about those developments. Right? So then now we're two more years out. Now we're like four years beyond when we had these ideas. Um and nobody wants that. So I think it's it's vitally important that we figure out a way to to communicate that and make it real enough so that folks will invest. Excellent sense. Yeah. Sometimes we say that you as we go through the code writing process, we sometimes look for triage

opportunities where we can spot a an opportunity where hey this could actually be just like a discrete like laser amendment and you know we pass that over to staff and say like hey might want to think about this as a as a fast action item. Mhm. Um especially when you're trying to convey a message like that of like yes, we're serious. You know, we often talk about in terms of what your plan says, the things that you say you want to encourage, you want to make sure that that has the clearest path to approval and that's how you that's how you message that. Yeah. It's like, please do this. Why? Because it's easy. Come do it. Um right.

Uh so yeah, definitely understand that. Um, couple of the questions I had for y'all is, you know, are there areas that you've seen where, you know, where there's a spot where you'd really like to see flu dial up the quality results of what you're getting in the built environment? Are there areas where you think, man, a little relaxation would make a big difference and and maybe something coming to market that isn't quite making it? I think I'm generally pretty happy with our things like our design requirements. Um I think the proposals that come in generally um even if they don't um meet expectations, it's been I think we've been pretty effective between the commission and staff in um pushing those back and saying, "Hey, these are these are our standards. You know, we need a need a better product." Um I'm trying to think of any specific examples. Um I mean I think our screening is pretty pretty strong.

Um I think do you have like an example that you've seen other cities do maybe jog our creat like like you know in terms of like getting getting to quality or something like that? I mean it's that's part of why I'm asking the question is because every community defines quality a little bit differently right? Um in terms of what's important to them, what they value. Um, so it could be, you know, you know, you're you're, for example, y'all talked about mixed use and maybe you aren't getting those results yet. Well, that's where maybe a question we need to go ask is find reputable developers in that space and and ask like, hey, what's the barrier here?

Um, and it could be the barrier is something regulatory. Great, we can fix it. It could be that the math doesn't math. Yeah, that's not something that we have a lot of control over, but we can assure that when the market when the math does get there that there's not a barrier. Um, so those like some of the conversations we might look towards on that, but it could be that, you know, you maybe you've gotten some townhouse development. Are you getting what you know, do you think it's gone well? Are you liking those results? You know, or is there something you'd like to give a little massage to? That kind of thing.

Okay. So then I think the barrier goes right back to um we do have very costly like it cost a developer a lot just to bring the idea to the table. So there has to be some kind of like discount rebate. I Yeah, I think I think we could have some sort of scheme to Yeah. to make that easier. Yeah. Uh especially in some of the corridor districts where we've had we've struggled to your point of bringing some of those um to fruit. I think cuz it could be cost when you start looking at everything you need to do before you even build a building. Yeah. You know, it's around $300,000 before you build a building. Yeah. And that building is probably like 5,000 ft. It's not cheap,

right? Just to get to the table. Then you got to build it. So, you're kind of thinking about like the spend that happens before a project actually gets its permit or whatever. Um so you think about that spend together with the spend of like how much time does that take because of your holding cost, right? So

like um so for example like we don't have to give like u you know in lie of so you bought back your parkland we could make them like instead of parkland purchase back they can get a reduction in some of their fees. So we're not losing park we're just losing some fees. I mean which is a lot of money. storing around willy-nilly. It's only like a dollar. Um but we won't lose park, but we'll lose a little bit of income. Yeah. And I which brings everybody back to we want we want parks, we want community gathering spaces.

So if we charge a we we discount how much it cost them to start the project, then we keep the trails, we keep the park. They don't buy in lie of Yeah. I you know one of the things I remember that just jogged my memory of when we were going through the process of the diagnostic with the other um consultants. One of the things that um I brought up and we were talking about is um better and more approachable documentation of those standards. And um I think at the time I it's not what the term you all use but I use the term playbook, right? Like here's

here's what we expect to see in this type of development in this zone. and it's an example and they can very clearly see a picture or rendering of hey this is what we're looking for. um because like you said these are highly technical and there's always somebody in bisdev and you know the site team that's looking at different things and and those types of materials that would be um more approachable I think um would be a way to both

get higher quality when they do bring something to the city um and hopefully reduce that back and forth as well if it's um substantially more clear than like you said you know two 300 pages of a of a beautiful code. So, how can we package some of those things up in a way that's visual and compelling and helps to explain the value and the reasoning for these things, which would hopefully improve the quality of the submissions and proposals that we get, which helps everything else downstream. Right. Right. Yeah, I agree.

I know several of y'all are on, you know, some of you are on the plane commission, some are on other commissions. your experience, you know, touching the code, I guess, so to speak, as a commissioner, what what's that like for you? Do you find that you're able to find answers you're looking for in it? Are there things that you like that you like you you feel like could be easier to locate? Like are there any like spots that y'all have found in that in that user experience from you as a commission? I'm about to talk as a very new person and I and I and and honestly um I'm so sorry I say this stuff but like I don't usually look at the UDC. I really like the Aspire document. I feel like anytime that I'm trying to get context of something I feel like I go to the Aspire document first um just to but I know I mean I know there's they don't have code regulations but I think when we're kind of talking about the vision of Flugerville, where are we going? What do we want certain areas to look and feel like? How do we want them to develop? I find Aspire to be a lot more compelling. And I think it goes back to Jonathan's point of like

more visual, more of a playbook, more understandable, more more tangible. Um it's just more user friendly than a than a

I mean it it it is very difficult um I think to to find things. Um and and some of that I think is not necessarily the code's fault, it's technology, right? And um you know, being able to search for something like a uh tree size requirements and then not being able to also see all of the other regulations in the code that relate to that that would also be impacted if you take a particular route. So I think some of that contextual information um is tends to be missing or at least difficult to find if it does exist. So, um, yeah, I definitely think there could be improvements there. I mean, I think like the wording, the phrasing is not bad. It's really like discovery of how do you how do you find the particular sections and and things that you really want to see and find?

Makes sense. Other thoughts in in kind of that kind of space? I think we all deal with like very specific parts of the code. you don't get to go on that that broad adventure through all the chapters. Yeah, Jonathan's point, I just open it and if I ever want to search, I just put a key word in there and like [laughter] find that specific word. Yeah. And I know one of the things that's kind of come up too is thinking about like the the housing choice and diversity of housing. When y'all think about like where you would like to see that increased housing diversity, what kinds of locations

do you envision that happening? Whether it's it could be specific this area of Flugerville or it could be the context of I would like to see it with these kinds of things around it.

I put that into a thought process yet. Yeah. I think one of the one of the challenging things about that is I I don't feel like we have a really clear vision of what we want East of 130 to be when it grows up, right? Um, and that's obviously where there's the most um, flexibility and opportunity in the future. But I don't think as a community and as a city, we've really thought through and figured out what we want that to be because no doubt it is diverse neighborhoods of different types and sizes. Um, and I think we'll want to be pretty um, pretty specific and and you know, the phrase I always use is like negotiate from a position of strength on these things, right? We're not a city that has to take every development and every proposal, right?

Um we we have a [snorts] lot going for us. Uh and we provide a lot of value.

Um so I think that's good. I you know, I guess personal opinion and having spoken with other folks, you know, west of 130, I think it's more about neighborhood scale, retail, community services, neighborhood services, those types of things more so than additional housing. I I know brought up earlier, you know, redevelopment. I do think we're going to see more of that um as see how the the uh overall economy goes and how soon that can happen. But I think that there is some demand there. And so I have no doubt that you all will look at those um opportunities and um and some of these updates I think will directly improve that. Right. We've got we every once in a while we'll see folks that have you know have two or three four older you know lots that are adjacent to each other and they don't have a whole lot of options right now of what to do with it other than replace the houses that are already there. um or go through the more arduous processes of getting exceptions for all those things or um so that

I mean it definitely would make more sense to start this more open adverse like diverse excuse me not adverse diverse um community out by the toll road just because it's a lot of open space so it's a place for developers to grow out there and like open up the code to those locations And then again those loa those locations would build parks and trails and then not do any in le of and then we give incentives. Yeah, sure that makes sense.

So uh we've got a kind of a hard end here that hits around seven. Um but I wanted to touch on kind of what what happens next with this. So we have a joint workshop coming up on November 25th. discuss with city council uh because the city council will absolutely have perspectives on what they would like to see out of this as well uh as well as uh some upcoming advisory uh committee meetings uh in this phase 2 drafting just to prepare you for what those will feel like. Um it's not going to it's not unlikely to be a kind of a page turner through a draft. Um I don't think I would wish that on my worst enemy. Uh but what's likely to be is us going through the drafting process, identifying those things where hey, we really need this community perspective of people that live and breathe Flugerville 247.

Uh to to offer up, okay, we like where you're going with this, but if you modify this, it becomes the Flugerville way of doing that. That's what we really want you to bring into those conversations is, you know, yes, we bring a technical expertise to this, but what's the Flugerville pathway to this uh as we go forward? But uh otherwise uh we really appreciate y'all's y'all's time this evening uh to walk through this with us. Uh a couple of us, this is actually a return to Flugerville. Uh both Erica and I worked on your on your Aspire uh plan, so it's fun to come back. Uh neither of us are really satisfied unless we're implementing a plan. So this is fun for us.

Uh and just to reiterate, this is a really important process. And when we talk about the planning process and a comprehensive plan, the reality of the recommendations of a plan is about 80% of that's relying on the p on the private sector to do something. So your development code is your pathway for how do you point them in that direction. So uh we're excited to have y'all on this adventure with us. Uh we're excited to be helping y'all take that vision into reality. And uh we'd encourage you uh as you you know think about this this evening. Uh if something comes to your mind that that you didn't say tonight, don't sit and stew on it. Uh I would encourage you all you know shoot an email over to your your you know your favorite staff contact whether that's Ashley as or uh you know Jeremy or anybody on the team uh just to let them know like hey I had one more thought and I wish I would have gotten it out and they can get it over to us. Uh because we don't want those to be sitting on the cutting room floor somewhere. We want to be able to bring that in the conversation.

Great. All right. Awesome. Thanks so much. This was uh this was great. Yeah, it was great. Thank you for your time, too. Absolutely. I really appreciate it. All right. Well, we didn't actually open the meeting, but uh we're going to stop it now. Yeah, [laughter] we'll Yes, we'll close. I like close. Oh. [laughter]

[laughter]

Right. All right. I'd like to call the meeting to order at 7:02. Uh we have two commissioners absent this evening. Uh Commissioner Atkinson and Commissioner Majun. Uh with that, we do still have a quorum. So, first of all, citizen communication. Uh, the Planning and Zoning Commission welcomes comment on items relevant to the Planning and Zoning Commission not already scheduled on tonight's agenda. In accordance with the Texas Attorney General's opinion, any public comment that is made on an item that is not on the published [snorts] agenda will only be heard by the commission. No formal action, discussion, deliberation, or comment will be made by the commission. Each person providing public comment will be limited to three minutes and will be asked to state his or her name and address for the public record. Is there anyone present wishing to address the commission? Seeing none, we will move on to item three, uh, the consent agenda. All matters listed under the consent agenda are considered routine by the commission and will be enacted by one motion. These items include preliminary and final plats where staff is found in compliance with all minimum subdivision regulations. All items approved by consent are approved with any and all staff recommendations. There will not be separate discussion of these items. However, if any commissioner desires to discuss an item, uh you're welcome to pull it and we will move it to the regular agenda for additional discussion. Are there any items on the consent agenda that a commissioner wishes to remove? All right, seeing none, then we are uh going to go through uh the consent agenda. So we have 3A, which is a preliminary plan uh for a uh 4.78 acre tract. 3B, we have a final plat for the Lisso tract phase 5. 3 C is approving our uh commission minutes from October. Uh 3D is approving a preliminary plan for Cameron Ranch subdivision. and 3E is approving the 2026 planning and zoning commission meeting schedule. Um, I'll accept a motion and a second.

I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as read. Second. All right. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion passes. Thank you. All right. We have a public hearing next. Uh, the commission welcomes comment on the following items. Each person providing public comment will be limited to three minutes and will be asked to state his or her name and address for the public record. Uh, Kristen, you've got 4 A here.

All righty. So, we have a replant for lot 1A of the Falcon Point subdivision. So, this is a lot within the Falcon Point subdivision, um, which is a PUD. The lot is the commercial lot within the subdivision and was given the transitional uh, business zoning, which is now retail under the current code. Um, in 2021, the lot was replatted um, for the church to be on lot 1A and future commercial on lot 1B. They are coming back tonight to replplat lot 1A um to leave the church on their lot and to replplat for a future commercial. We do have a site plan in review for the commercial at this time um that meets uh state and local uh minimum requirements and we recommend approval.

Fantastic. Uh is there anyone from the public wishing to speak on this? All right. I'll entertain a motion to close public comment and then we'll proceed to discussion. So moved. I'll second. All right. All in favor? I I All right. Uh, sounds good. So, we'll open it up for questions and discussion. Just to get my bearings, is this the the same church lot that had the cell phone tower last year? That is correct. You'll notice on the northern portion of lot um 1 AR1 here is the cell phone tower. It is being included as part of the church property. And so they're just dividing is it they're dividing into three.

Correct. They're further dividing the church lot to sell that to the for retail. And that is that location if I'm looking at the map. Correct. Is the one that abuts row. Um no, not quite. It's um a little bit further south. This is almost at the intersection of Kelly Lane and FM685. You'll see Merchardson Trail here. Um, [clears throat] Rorow Lane is probably about a mile north of here. Oh, uh, sorry. The map attached to the item then is not the right map. Interesting. It's okay. That's why I was confused there for a minute. I was like, "Oh, I didn't think this was All right. No worries. Do Oh, so no, that you talking about this the the on screen that extent, right?"

Yeah. So that's Kelly Wayne is further south off the map. Gotcha. Okay. Mono is further north. Okay. So like uh uh I mean I don't know Uncle Gary's little that it's like right around hereish. Got it. Okay. Okay. Cool. I was just getting confused. Was there What's the reason for the little bumpout? Is that like a a room for a turn lane or That was for a connection to public utilities. There's a wastewater line that goes through that area and the northern lot four four years ago created that so that they could have connection to the public utility line.

Okay. Is the um culde-sac labeled Copper Point Cove ISD like where that culde-sac carveout is? Yes. Is there a connection? Uh, is that is that one of those culde-sacs that's got a No, there um it's not you can't really see it on here. There is a small landscape area around that culde-sac. So, they are not able to actually connect in um that those that area is carved out to the two homeowners to the north and south. Okay. [clears throat]

Do we have to deal with ingress egress at this point for that? Um, no. That's all on the site plan and has been handled. Um, this is the last um item before the site plan can be approved. I don't think I had any other questions, comments. All right, I'll entertain a motion. Uh, I'll make a motion to uh approve. Second. All right. All in favor? I I All right. Motion passes. Thank you. I think you're up again for the next one now. Fantastic. So 4 B.

Okay. Um item 4 B is a replant for um lot seven of the Rain Estates one. Um the property is currently residential. It is being replplatted to into three lots plus rideaway dedication for the future extension of Row Lane um to the east to serve a subdivision that is in Hutto's ETJ. Uh last year the preliminary plan and a subdivision waiver were approved for this project to reduce the landscape lot on the south side of Rolain. Um the plat is in conformance with the preliminary plan and meets state and local requirements, minimum requirements, and is recommended for approval.

Uh is there anyone from the public wishing to speak on this item? All right, seeing none, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. So moved. Second. All right. All in favor? I. All right. Public comment is closed. Uh questions, discussion? This is the one we were looking at a few months ago, right? With the the access road and the gate. No, no, this is adjacent to that subdivision. The one this is like the rightway for the road that would go to connect the

correct. Yes. Um Row Lane will go east um from the intersection with um County Road 139 and connect further. It'll eventually connect all the way through Hutto's ETJ out towards Melbour Lane and Cameron Road. Yeah. Yeah. I remember they they talked about doing this so it makes sense that we're seeing it. Yeah. It is all the same developer. Oh, okay.

So, let me ask you. So, we're nor this is our conversation time, right? So, um, if I can if I'm thinking about that, uh, that gated access to the road, and I forget what the name of that section was or that street that was one particular portion of this overall plan, but this is another portion that would touch it. Is that like this isn't this road isn't the road that was intended to tie into that section that now has a gate? Correct.

No. Correct. um plan south here is that road that will have the um the emergency access gate on it. Um it isn't the same subdivision, but it is the same overall like master plan. Um this road will connect Bluffs at Blackhawk um out to FM685. The one earlier this year was for the Rigid at Blackhawk. So they're part of the overall mud five development. So, but the reason I'm asking and this is just educational for me is if you may understand this I can see row lane

and then it and then that comes down goes to a culde-sac lefth hand turn that particular section that road there is the piece that's going to have the gate on the end of it. Correct. Gate dancer here is the one that we'll have to dancer that was it will have the um emergency access gate on it. Row Lane will continue to head east. Um, right here is where uh Hutz Etj starts is why you don't see it anymore. Gotcha. On the the plans. So, what I'm what I'm curious about is in light of other projects or other information, right? In the event that as a commission, either an individual or the commission as a whole, we need an opportunity to to re-evaluate a decision that was made in the past

to accommodate any other changes or the projects. Is that something that's possible? like how how is that raised? Does an applicant have to come forward or do do does one of us go, "Hey, you know what? I'd like to talk about that again." And then and then go through that public solicitation process, things like that. You know, we have to notify the people that were affected that would come forward. I'm I'm not exactly sure how we would handle that, but get an answer to something like a want to talk about that particular an issue that was settled. Not necessarily this one, but just generally if I get something out, we talked about that a couple years ago. We're talking about six months ago. We're talking about a month ago. We need to talk about that again, right?

Is it relevant enough to this that we that it would fall that we could use this agenda item? Otherwise, I think the answer is probably we would have to put it on next month's agenda. Okay. So, it would just be it would be another agenda item and then any properties affected by that, they have the opportunity to be notified and then come forward and all that stuff, right? Would you all be comfortable doing that? I mean it wouldn't be like an official notice or anything. It's just commission to provide direction. Okay. All right. Wonderful. No, I wouldn't I wouldn't then talk about it for this. Okay. Any other discussion? If not, I will entertain a motion. Motion to approve.

Second. All right. Got a motion and a second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. Sounds good. Thank you. And uh All right. Up next, we have item 6A with uh Jeff and Dave. Good evening, commissioners. And Jeff Shay, assistant parks and recreation director. And I've got David Madden here. He's our tree expert. Despite the fact that I'm dressed like a tree tonight, he's the guy you'll ask the tree questions to.

I was noticed that. Yeah, you're kind of up on us. That's right. Switch it around. Um so just a brief history. So our code was last updated in 2012. So mostly what we're doing here um is just updating based on changes to our department. Um the tree code obviously falls in the parks and recreation chapter the code of ordinances um but does impact other areas of our city. So we've gotten the language reviewed by um any departments that would be um impacted and legal. And what's changing here? Replaces the purpose and intent. Added several definitions. Reduced responsibilities of the treeare advisory committee. We'll talk about that. It's not as negative as it seems there. Um added some tree care contractor requirements and then clarified responsibilities of the city. Added a section for prohibited activities. So just tried to make a little bit more sense. Um our department's changed a lot. We didn't have an urban forester in in 2012. And so um we we're really updating based on where our department is now. Um so going going quickly through this uh purpose and intent. So health of public trees obviously is bigger than just planting and removing trees. Um so many of these changes reflect just updates to ensure urban tree canopy health and that's the purpose and and intent um section does just that. We provided definitions um for certified arborist, parks and recreation director, reed naturalization. Um just some things that either weren't in there before or again we didn't have an urban forester in 2012. So adding a definition for that.

Is there a definition for urban forester? What's your definition? Can I [clears throat] have it? I don't know [laughter] what that is. The way we wrote it tree guy. Yeah. I mean, that's what I thought, but the person who's in charge of implementing the urban the We might have to speak into the mic if you don't mind. Sorry about that. You want to come over here? Yeah. Yes. At the podium. I can speak louder. We They moved them on you. Uh I can't remember word for word what we put inside the code to be honest with you, but it's basically the person who's in charge of implementing the urban forest. So you are you the go between between the arborist and and the city or I am the arist is the city's arborist. Okay then I've changed my mind. I know

so right there in the definition it just says Dave [laughter] right next to it title change. We'll have to we'll have to change it if we lose Dave. But it just says Dave right now. [laughter] Okay.

So the treecare advisory committee again this isn't necessarily taking um things away from them. It's it's more the responsibility is now our urban foresters. And so the tree advisory committee is a is a requirement of being a Tree City USA. Um and so maybe in a smaller community submitting the annual application for Tree City USA, submitting an annual report, things like that would fall on the tree advisory committee that now falls on the urban forester um who still provides updates to uh the treecare advisory committee who is also the parks and recreation commission four times a year. And anytime we would need to provide um any update to council um state does that. So they still assist in in all those things coordinate and and help to promote arborday activities do all the things that are required as part of a tree city USA u which we've been for 18 years and with Dave we actually have earned the growth award for the last two years which is basically saying we've gone above and beyond the requirements u for a tree city. I don't I'm not sure how many there are in Texas, but it's not many. Under 10.

Okay. A little over 10. Get my notes here. So, care of public trees. Um really what this does is it gets us up to standards, clears up some areas for enforcement. Um so, adds a clarifying section. Um I think I might be skipping. Uh yeah, so this is just uh updating some of the the um definitions when hiring tree service company um sort of work deemed too hazardous things like that. We need to bring somebody in to do that adds definitions to that um requirement. If I ask a quick question so are are these things are these policies that you all have effectively already implemented?

That's essentially what we're doing tonight. Yeah. So these are these are adding um some language to what okay we've been doing with Dave staff the last So you've already you've made these changes effectively. Yeah. Okay. Great. As far as um rights away is that is that something where we get say what happens with like tech text rights away and other highways and things or do they get full control over that? That's a Dave question but I would imagine text dot has control over their rights of way. Yes. Yeah. Is it the is the question do we have any kind of enforcement over their landscaping or any of their Yeah, it's like sometimes you drive through an area that has a lot of trees and there's a lot of trees on the highway there and then other places not so much. Like is there any control over that at the city level or is that just

There's not. I've you know I can I can call and report it just like anybody else and then there's been times where I've had to call and report the same thing over and over and over again said hey this is who I am but the movement's on them. Okay. So yeah. So, this this goes a little bit more in depth on what property owners are responsible for in their yards, like removes the word front um and adds some language and a and a visual um to help property owners understand what their responsibility is on trees.

I think that's great. So, is the Sorry, just clarifying question there. So, is the intent that our urban forester is enforcing that or because I would guess that most of that comes through code enforcement today. I would think that's those sorts of things. It does. Yeah. And I think our urban forester is the one who's out there doing these um you know checks and things like that. Um I do know and Dave does a great job of working with our community members rather than you know just getting code enforcement to issue a citation or something like that. It's typically education. A lot of times people just aren't aware of what the code is what's required of them as a property owner. So Dave does a great job of of meeting folks where they are and having these conversations.

Awesome. I so I have a question about how it applies inside HOAs.

Okay. So um the question I have is is in uh in Falcon Point where I live there is private land and there's also areas that are considered owned by the HOA where in the guidelines and documents and things you know the the the home if you were if you a normal person would say okay that clearly belongs to the a homeowner but then they're on a corner lot there's a side fence fence that goes that's there's nothing there and there's trees along that route. So some residents take it upon themselves to clean them up. Other times they don't. How is that managed? Like how do y'all approach dealing with those things and raising those issues? The only reason I speak to it is because I also walk my kids to school and I know some trees that are like, you know, up to here.

Yeah. In the face as you walk through. Yeah. And and so how does that how how do y'all how do you deal with that? I'm gonna continue to stand the So the HOAs are regulated just like commercial businesses are.

So I always advocate to everybody. Best thing is to do is try to contact your neighbor and work it out with them before you get anybody else involved. I would take it to the HOA. Uh I imagine Falcon Points HOA is pretty uh amendable. I they'll probably take everything you say. I would imagine. Uh if that doesn't happen, if it's in if it's over your property, there's really not much enforcement that we can do. Uh if it's over public property, if it's posing any kind of risk to public property, so you said you're hitting your kids in the face. If that's over a public sidewalk, the trees are the trees are [laughter]

Yeah. The HOA is that's a whole different that's a whole different take care of the HOA. Sounds like more of a Facebook post than a planning [laughter] conversation. But if the trees are are if they're less than 8 ft and you've and you've already contacted the HOA and they've haven't done anything about it and it's their it's their tree. Uh you can contact code enforcement because that I mean that's not just our city code. That's also an ADA requirement. It's also fire code.

Oh wow. Okay. Well it's and I mean we're not picking on anybody, right? I don't want to be in that in that position, but just there, you know, there's there's sidewalks that are all the sidewalks are sidewalks, but then there's the residents like their individual homes that have trees that hang over in and very obvious inline homes, but then there's also the public trees, public trees, HOA trees or whatever. Um, and I'm just curious, never deal with it. Yeah. And unfortunately, unless it's affecting the public like public spaces, the city doesn't have any say over it, of course. So, it's it's basically between neighbors at that point. But again, if it is on the sidewalk or if it does look like it's going to fall on the street and the HO is not doing anything about it, please give code enforcement a call. Understood.

They'll give me a call and I'll write a report. That's that's how it goes. Right.

Thank you. That leads us sort of to our next uh topic here which is uh previous language had in care of public trees uh that the director may recommend removal of any trees that are uh not not meeting those standards. Um so that's being recommended to change too that they may dictate uh that those those things have to happen if they're uh you know providing any sort of um safety hazards or uh any other issues that even might be dangerous to other trees uh might affect other trees. um allowing us to dictate removal of those trees

in public like in public access not yeah only if they affect uh public so if it affects a people and property so if it's on I don't have this kind of tree but if there was a big tree in my front yard and then the le the limbs were nine feet there was a very tall person walking by but somebody thought it was dangerous to them is I have to take care of that. If it's if it's meeting the vertical height requirements, then you don't have to take care. Okay. But if if it's your personal tree, right? Let me back the pedal a little bit. If it's your personal tree and it's over a public sidewalk, it would be on you to

to do it, but I would have to do it. You guys would force me to do it. Yeah. I mean, it would again it's going to be a warning first and then it's going to be you have x number of days before there's any kind of actual like strong arming. and even then the strong armies of and then what if the tree is on the easement side then the sidewalk then the then the private property what we're trying to right now the way the code's written if it's the right of way that abuts your property on the front yard then it would be your responsibility still trying to make it so that it also encompasses sideyards and alleyways

the entire ride out of way Uh the way I I try to describe it to people the easiest way, it's not black or white. Uh but if you feel compelled to mow that area, then then the tree in that area is probably your responsibility. Okay?

And so typically that dictation is going to be if it's impacting public property. So the most complaints you're going to get is about a tree that's overhanging either the road or the sidewalk or a trail here in Flugville since we've got a lot of those. A quick question on that. Um, so if if someone has some kind of financial challenges with doing that, is there anything that they can do with the city to get support in removing a tree that maybe is large, really expensive to remove? I'm just curious. Nothing official. Uh, I do think that's a really important uh question towards uh urban canopy or tree equity in our city, but it's not something that we have addressed yet. Definitely something I'd like to address in the future

because also the person could end up killing the tree by accident. Mhm. Okay. Because then there would be a fine for accidentally killing a heritage tree or a large caliber tree because there are going to be potentially some trees that going to be pushed into a safe space whatever. I don't know what you call it. Yeah, don't touch these trees kind of.

And I and I know that's, you know, you're typically going to try to find the cheapest route, but that's why we always make sure even before having Dave, you know, you you get somebody who has a certified arborist who can make those cuts or whatever is needed in a way that's not going to damage that tree. But yeah, if it's impacting public space, u obviously if it's over your driveway and it's touching, so is what it is. But yeah, if it's impacting public space, there's obviously the need to take care of it in some form or fashion. Yeah, but arborists aren't cheap. You know, arburist aren't cheap. Getting it cut isn't cheap. And then

it's not a requirement that they have to, correct me if I'm wrong, get that arborist to do it. But to ensure that that work is done correctly, that's you still have to hire an arborist. You just get your own chainsaw. In my capacity, kill that tree. I would say that in in my capacity, slippery slope. Sorry. I can't do that work for you. But if you're a flug group citizen, I have no problem going out there and giving you recommendations and even writing down uh some basic scope to give to whoever you're hiring. And let them know say, "Hey, this is the standards, national standards. This is how I would I'll actually write a professional scope for you if you need to to hand to whoever you hire."

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. I I guess that would be for I guess council to or a realtor to explain that to a homeowner. I guess and that was what I was saying earlier with So Dave is I'm going brag on Dave a little bit. Dave is not only a certified arborist, you're a certified master arborist, board certified, board certified master arist, which 2% of arborists have certified are. So we do have him as a resource and Dave has been very willing to have, you know, conversations with the community members and try to figure out the best path forward. Okay. It seems like all the stuff we're doing, we're we're kind of drawing a pretty clear line between like trees that are on public land and then trees that are affecting public spaces are things that the city gets a say in. Right. Correct.

Is the opposite of that true that if it's not on city land and it's not affecting a a public area that the city doesn't have any say in it, you can cut down the plant whatever you want. That's correct. I mean, we don't have any kind of regulations over uh over private property on, you know, on uh single to families. Uh we there might be some in the UDC added, but it's going to be a lot less restrictive than what we have in the commercial. I don't want to get ahead of myself, so I'll save any other comments for that. So, y'all are hear more about it than I will, I'm sure. So, because I know we get like into HUDs and stuff where we have to talk about tree coverage and exceptions and stuff like that. Is that for like commercial properties and multif family? Is that something that you guys are monitoring? Is there like any like thresholds that that different areas have to maintain?

Before we answer that, I want to add on to that. So, I was thinking of the exact same thing of those been a couple times where they somebody brings their plan forward and it shows trees planted every x number of feet. And then there's been discussion of well, okay, that's for today, but we also know that half those trees will be mitigated once they reach a certain size because they're going to not survive or whatever. And where I'm thinking of my own personal residence, you know, we have this requirement that was part of the development documents that said that every home had to have two trees in the front yard

until and but there was no until and then what we I think figured out is that at a certain point we could say no, the city has this rule that apparently after a certain number of years it reduces from two to one or something like that. And and so that just creates confusion just at the low like the HOA level, right? Like, oh, you didn't have two trees. And as a perfect example, my neighbor across the street mitigated a tree because it was dying and then replaced it with two smaller oak trees, you know, and because there was lack of clarity. Long and short of it is how does um I know that's a silly thing to get hung up on, but you know, if you're trying to communicate like to the public uh what their obligations are in terms of maintaining trees, you have new developments, the developers come in and they write some HOA spec that says every home gets two trees in our development because that was part of the agreement that they brought to the city to get their development approved. And then at a certain point, the residents are now 100% owners of the whole community. And then they got to figure out how many trees are we allowed to have. What's considered, hey, let this one grow or it's we tear them all down and put you have to plant new ones every 20 years, right?

So, and I know that that I don't know if that's a question in there, but really it's just like the situation because I've experienced it and I trim my trees recently. I was like, well, we're down to one out front and I guess the city says one, so we're all good. You know? Yeah. So I think there's a counter to that because we just heard the UDC and they're trying to lessen the burden of landscaping requirements and so then Jonathan brought up well shouldn't we be like prepping our developers that this may be a change. So I mean I think we're back to a whole 360 but with no actual question right thrown in there. It's fascinating like manage

sort of. So this is in the the chapter 95 in the parks and rec you know chapter of the code of ordinances. This is dealing with public trees. Right. So that's a separate UDC conversation. Um so none of what we're changing here has anything to do with with private trees affecting public space. Right. Right. And then we will be discussing the trees and the UDC and development portions as we go through the UDC updates. We will or will not? We will. Okay. Okay. Cuz I saw it in like wait. Yeah, it does specify sizes and distances and species I think are in there. I mean, I did fight my my HOA and I did win the one tree thing. One tree argument. [laughter] Oh gosh.

Just stop. You can do it. Um, all right. So again going back to care of public trees, there's two uh lines here that are uh remaining but they're being moved to uh a new section which is prohibition against harm for trees. And there's that. What are the two new sections? So there was two section two items moved and then there's there's four here. Yeah. Let's see.

I'm sorry. Yeah. So you've got Yeah. So the last two any person firm corporation city department for construction near any public trees. So consult with uh the parks and recreation department. Really? That's going to be Shain or I don't know much about trees. So that's going to be Dave. So is that already part of the process with our development services folks to pull you all in I presume for those reviews?

Yeah. So Dave Dave performs all of the tree mitigation and a lot of the landscape plans for new development. Yeah. uh current language on the public tree fund. So we have a tree fund um that new development will will put into u for tree mitigation. Um that's the current language. Um new language essentially just adds B is a line just saying it'll adhere to budget policies u dictated by the city. Um, and then going back to what I said earlier about, you know, tree care is more than just planting and removing trees. U, so we've got a lot of areas where we're trying to do what we can on public property, public land to improve and sustain our urban tree canopy. And that's more than just planting new trees. So, use of that tree fund. It's renown naturalization of those designated areas. So um essentially taking care of what's around trees for the health of those trees. U tree and plant healthcare such as fertilization, soil modification and pest and disease management which can which can become a pretty big issue. Um and then other initiatives that promote our urban forest. Maybe not for the tree fund specifically, but did you all consider adding either [clears throat] a rule or option to sort of future proof this for future purple pipe like either allowing that explicitly or potentially, you know, if it is within X, you know,

now I would be I'm sure Dave has thought about it. We did not discuss it. Okay. Um certainly something that we can might be something to consider. Yeah. Yeah. And again, the next update won't be 14 years from now. So, we'll we'll make sure we're reviewing this and updating as needed. Is there actually money in the public tree fund? Is that Yeah. Yeah. I've just never heard of it, actually. How much money I mean, when do you start using the public tree fund if there's Sounds like there's a lot of money in there. Yeah. So, we use it primarily for planting trees uh and irrigation for the trees because if you plant a bunch of trees without irrigation, they're not going to last. And so,

um, we we've used it recently at Lake Flugerville Park, um, all over the city in in public spaces, parks. Um, so yeah, it's in use quite frequently. Okay. Dave's busy. Dave's a busy guy. He's a team of one. Are there uh are there any provisions in the code to allow like people that aren't city staff like nonprofits or other organizations to do like tree planting events or does it is it only limited to like it has to be the professionals that are putting them in? Uh going back to Dave being a busy guy. Um Dave works with the park foundation and other organizations throughout the year. I mean I don't even know how many tree planting events you do a year 20 or 30. Oh we just did one on Sunday. We're going to do another one on the 15th.

Sunday on the 8th. Mhm. His his family may hate me for this, but if you've got a nonprofit organization that wants to plant trees, Dave will do it on a weekend. Right. Or you can partner with the parks foundation. Yeah, that's right. Or just partner with the park foundation. I did almost make a joke earlier when you talked about Arbor Day if whether or not we need to add Art Berde uh in into the tree code. Yeah, that may be so popular we have to just keep doing it. We'll see.

That's all we have. Happy to answer any other questions. I just want to say thank you to Dave. I know we've been working together quite a bit for the past year. Um, and we have just a note to anyone if you have like a social media people that would be interested in uh volunteering, we have Art Berde coming up this Saturday which is going to be super fun. And then um on the 15th we'll be doing a tree planting at Lake Flugerville. Um so if you're want to come see some trees getting planted, come on out on the 15th. Good plug. Yeah. [laughter] And Dave is awesome. Yeah, it's in the record.

All right. I believe our requested action is to uh vote to recommend this for approval to council. So, I'll entertain a motion. Motion to approve? I second. Second. All in favor? I. All right. All right. Any opposed? Hearing none, that passes. Uh, thank you all. Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh before we adjourn, I just wanted to say a quick couple of things. Um so because this may be my last meeting with you all, I wanted to express my No, I'm just kidding. [laughter]

Not a lot of sleep. Uh but I just wanted to express that I I feel really good about all the work that we've done and I've worked with, you know, several of you for several years now and uh and really appreciate you all's contributions and and staff for um keeping us on track and and bringing um excellent recommendations. So, if you have to come back, you're welcome. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] We hope to see you in a different way. Thank you. All right. Uh we can adjourn uh with that at 7:39. Thank you all.