Planning & Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

DELL: Call to order the planning and zoning meeting for 03/20/2025. Cheryl, will you call the roll, please?

Member Alloy?

Present. Present.

Member Doris Gonzalez? Here. Member Lebaat? Here. Vice Chairman Goldich?

Here.

Chairman Gonzalez? Here. Alternate Member Taylor? Alternate member Zacharias? We do have a quorum.

Okay, starting off, we have a new member on our board, Nelson Alloy. And our assistant city attorney, Paul Hernandez, will be given in the oath of office.

I. Say your name. Nelson Obler. Do solemnly swear or affirm.

Do solemnly swear and or affirm. That I will support. That I will support.

Protect and defend Protect and defend. The constitution and government Constitution and government. Of The United States The United States. And of the state of Florida And of the state of Florida. And the charter and ordinances And And the the charter charter and ordinances. Of the city of Pembroke Pines.

Of the city of Pembroke Pines.

That I am duly qualified to hold office That I am duly qualified to hold office Under the constitution of

the state By the constitution of

the state. And that

And now we have a couple of organizational matters. Paul Hernandez will do a sunshine law refresher and quasi judicial proceeding instructions. Thank you.

Good afternoon and good evening. Thank you, Madam Chair. Joe Yaczyk asked me to keep the presentation under two hours, so I'll So try to do as a matter of just regular course of business, when we have a new member, we like to take the opportunity, and the board likes to take the opportunity to have our office, as the city attorney's office, present a broad overview of the Sunshine Law as it pertains to you and your function as board members. And then the chair, a couple of meetings ago, asked if we would be so kind as to provide also a brief overview on quasi judicial proceedings. It's something that you hear often as board members, of this board in particular.

So we'll give, like I said, we'll give very broad overviews of these matters. To the extent that you have further questions, please feel free to ask them, of course. But if you have detailed questions or if you'd ever want to sit down with us on a one on one basis to go over any of these matters, please let us know. So I believe that we have Sunshine Law before. So I'm going to take the liberty, if I may, Madam Chair, to go over sunshine law and public records laws.

When we give these presentations, they go hand in hand. So I just want to make sure that the board is up to speed. So you have your the Sunshine Law. It's not only codified within your state statutes, but it's also enshrined in the Florida constitution. The state of Florida has some of the broadest sunshine laws of any state in the union.

And really, the purpose of it is to ensure that the people's business, which is the business that you all carry out here as public officials and board members of this board, is done in the light, in a way that's accessible to all. And so even if you take this meeting for instance, this meeting was publicly noticed. The doors aren't locked. There's people are allowed to come in. People are allowed to provide comments on items that are before you today.

You have a staff member here who's taking records through minutes of this meeting. The meeting's being recorded as well. So if ever anyone wants to have access to this meeting and understand what went on here, maybe they weren't able to attend, they'll have the ability to request that through the city's custodian of records, which is your city clerk. So with that rationale and with understanding that the state, through its constitution and statutes, statutes fully intends to have the people's business be done in a public forum, then so it stands to reason that if, as board members, if you're going to be conducting official business or engaging in the conduct of official business, that that also be done in a public forum. So what does that mean specifically to you?

What it means is that the Sunshine Law prohibits members of any board from speaking to each other on items that are before them or items that could foreseeably be presented to them. Now, that's not an outright prohibition on speaking with each other. If you're at Publix and you see a board member coming down the aisle, you don't have to run away from them. You could engage them. You could say hello. You could speak. If you had to have a sad conversation, you could talk about sports and local sports because those are never good. But you have the ability to talk about it. You could talk about your families. You could even say, did you go to Taste of Pines?

What a great event that was, right? Or you could mention could talk about a lot of things. But what you can't talk about are and it's very specific for this board matters that could foreseeably be presented to you. So if there's a vacant lot somewhere in the city and you have a great idea for that lot or what you'd like to see there, then you shouldn't be talking about that in publics. You should be talking about it here in a public forum that's been noticed and that people have the opportunity to come and witness it and that you're going to have a recording of the minutes, etcetera.

So really, when it comes to sunshine law, that's the main prohibition for you that you have to be considerate of on a day to day basis. And this applies not only to direct communications but indirect communications. So you can't say, well, you know, I didn't talk about it, but my partner did. You can't have people speak on your behalf to other board members either. If you're going to speak in any form or fashion about official business having to do with your official function as a planning and zoning board member, then those conversations need to be had here in a public forum such as the one that we're having today.

Now, as public officials as well and as part of the city, we also adhere to Florida's public records laws which are codified in our state statutes under Chapter 119. Florida, very broad public records laws. More likely than not, if there's something that has to do with the official course of business that you're engaging in and it's some sort of written communication, then that's a public record. So that includes your emails. If you're sending emails regarding what's going on, it's a public record.

If you're texting someone regarding this board or your capacity in it or a zoning matter that's before the city of Pembroke Pines, and that's official business, that text becomes a public record. Just like if you go home on Facebook now and you said, you know, we had such and such application here, and this is how I feel about it. That's a public record. So what happens with public records? People have the right to access public records in the state of Florida.

And they do so by reaching out to the custodian of records, which, as I stated before, is your city clerk. So usually, as a custodian of records, the city clerk has a pretty good and pretty effective way of, you know, ensuring that she now has access to these records, right? And most of the records are accessible, either they keep them directly with the city clerk's office or it's kept with the department. Here, it's a little bit different because if you're engaging in a conversation that has to do with your official duties and creating a public record and someone were to make a request for that record and the city clerk doesn't have it, you become the custodian of that record. The city clerk will then reach out to you and say, board member, we received this public records request.

We need to be responsive to it under, state law. Do you have this record in your possession? If it's something that never existed, then that's the answer. But if it is something that exists and you have in your possession, then that's a record that you then would be tasked with submitting to the city clerk. That's your sunshine law and public records in a nutshell.

If there's any questions, again, we could answer. If not, then and you have other questions that may come day to day, you have you all have my email. You all have my I could provide you with my phone as well, and you could call me directly, and we could have those conversations. We want to make sure that you're all abiding by the law. And it's always better, and we always advise to just ask the question before, And we'll be more than glad to provide you with any advice.

So that's that. We'll move on to quasi judicial. So a quasi judicial proceeding refers to when you have a body such as this Planning and Zoning Board that's following a process that's very similar to what you'd see in a court proceeding or a judicial proceeding. And the reason why you do this is because in 1993, there was a case that went to the Florida Supreme Court. It had to do with the Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County.

Case of Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County versus Snyder. The Supreme Court of Florida determined that there are four characteristics that mark an application or a case that should be considered quasi judicial in nature. And this is when the action results in the application of a general rule of policy. You're not creating a new law. You're applying existing law to something that is before you.

When the decision has an impact on a limited number of persons or property owners on an identifiable party or the parties are identifiable and their interests are identifiable. So if you have a rezoning for one particular party, or one particular property, those parties are identifiable. When the decision is contingent on facts arrived at from distinct alternatives presented at a hearing, which you have these hearings, and when the act determines that the rules of law are applicable and the rights affected by them are in relation to past transactions. Those are the standards that the Florida Supreme Court put together. But subsequently, many cities, including the city of Pembroke Pines, has codified its own quasi judicial proceedings, and that's in section 155 of your city code.

So what really, if you're looking at it practically now, you're looking at a very formalized, structured type of proceeding that applicants for items that are quasi judicial in nature and I'll read you the eight kind of quasi judicial in nature types of applications that the city's code has deemed to be quasi judicial, right? So these applicants are entitled to these proceedings. And the purpose of these proceedings, just like any judicial proceeding, is to ensure that there is equity and that there's an opportunity and a process to be followed to present evidence, that there's a formal process in place where people who are affected parties may be able to present testimony. Then there's ability to cross examine those people, people who have given testimony. It's a very formal procedure.

So when the chair has an applicant before the board and the chair asks, would you like to waive your quasi judicial proceeding rights? And they say yes. They're really just saying, we don't need to follow this very formalized type of structure that we would otherwise adhere to. We could move forward similar to most applications that come other applications that come before the board where they'll have time to talk. And now and as you've seen on a practical basis, waiving that right to a quasi judicial proceeding doesn't exclude members of the public from being able to speak.

They're still able to speak, and they're still able to talk. It's just under you don't have to follow those rigors and that very strict structure that is required by quasi judicial proceeding. I'll read to you really quickly the eight kind of cases that the city code says are quasi judicial. So you have site specific zoning changes, site specific land use amendments, variances, plat approvals, special exceptions, interpretations of the department regarding land development code interpretations and appeal of planning and zoning board or board of appeal decisions. So a lot of those you should be very familiar with, if not all of them, have come before you in one form or another or one time or another.

So whenever you have an application that deals with any of those subject matters, the applicant is entitled to a quasi judicial proceeding. I know, madam chair, more often than not, they do waive the rights. And then at that point, you could move forward with meetings as you usually do. One thing that I do want to say is that even when you're waiving it, when you're waiving your right to a quasi judicial proceeding, you're still in a public meeting. There's still records being taken.

The items that are presented, the testimony that's presented is recorded. It becomes part of the public record. So there's still a public record that exists even if there's a waiver of that right to a quasi judicial proceeding. And lastly this is important all the decisions of the body that regard a quasi judicial matter must be supported by competent substantial evidence. So you have staff, staff's report, discussions that are occurring here on the day as rationale, where you're exploring your rationale for making any particular decision one way or another on an item.

If it's ever a challenge, that's one of the things that they look for. Well, what was supporting that decision? So we want to make sure that staff puts you in a position and that you all have healthy discussions and dialogue regarding these items to ensure that there is competent substantial evidence to back up your decisions. I think that was less than two hours.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions? Again, if there's more specific questions, we're always available, and you could reach out at any time.

Thank you.

Thank you. Do

any board members have lobbying disclosure forms to submit?

No.

Approval of the February. Are there any corrections, or do I have a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Second. Motion made by Member Gonzalez, seconded by Member Goldish. All those in favor? Aye. Okay, on to new business. We have two items on the consent agenda. Are there any members of the public that would like to address either item?

Are there any board members that would like

I just have a question on it. Member Goldich? Is somebody here from the mall?

Which one are you on? Number one.

Number one? MSC2020.

Hello? Yeah, was just reading. I know you guys are changing signs, right? That's right. Or are you adding signs to?

Mr. Goldich, I apologize. So we're pulling the item. I just want to make sure we're pulling this item.

What's that?

We're pulling this item to speak on it.

We are?

Oh, Okay. Yes.

Right. Sorry.

I'm sorry. So the normal approach is to pull one of the items and then approve the other one and then open it up for the conversation. I apologize. Okay.

Okay. So he's pulling item number one.

Pulling item one.

Then we should vote on number two? Yeah. MSC twenty twenty five-seven, Haagen Dazs, Facade and signage changes. Do I have a motion to approve?

I so move.

I Second. Motion made by Doris Gonzalez, seconded by

No, Rosalie Obey made the motion.

I'm sorry. Motion made by Member LeBage, seconded by Lember Goldish. All those in favor? Aye. Motion passed unanimous. Okay, back to number one.

Sorry. My mistake.

I didn't know that either. MSC 2020 five-six, Pembroke Lake Small Master Sign Plan Update.

So the only I just have one. I guess it's a combination. Are you adding signs?

We're only making some minor adjustments to the criteria on E1 and E2.

Excuse me. I'm sorry. I need you to state your name for the My record,

name is Walde Abruh.

Okay.

Most of the signs will stay the same. The only changes we're making that we're proposing are to E1 and E2 sign types.

Which is which one? I'm sorry.

It's on page 13.

There's a picture with colors that shows

Sorry. So that's changing ownership, I understand, right? It's not Red Robin anymore.

I have a hard time hearing you.

I'm sorry. It's not Red Robin anymore, obviously. So that's changing.

Yeah. That's just an example of the location. What we're doing is, if you've seen the description, we're adding a sculpture element to the front area of the if you there's a Meister site plan there that shows you the locations of what we're what we're talking about, where we're proposing. So it's just adding adding a sculpture element to the P. F. Chang location. We're opening up a trying to open up a P. F. Chang. So they have a horse statute. That's the that's the amendment or the change to that standpoint.

So I I just wanted a clarification. So the the signs that you're showing DELL: on the pictures are the ones that you're changing or upgrading, right?

No, this picture is an example.

Specify where anything is going.

Just to clarify, the amendment is to change the allowances for signage there. There's no signed proposed as part of this application.

You repeat what you just said?

The application before you is to amend the allowances within the master sign plan. There is no signage proposed as part of this application.

So it's basically the horse of the P. F. Changs that you'd like to add in the front of that?

Into the allowance, yes.

And how big is it? Like, does it obstruct any walkway?

Will not obstruct any walkway. It's going to be in a grass area that we have.

I have a question about the sidewalk signs. How are those going to be secured so they're not knocked over or blown over?

Sidewalk signs? Which side? Oh, you're referring to so there was no change to that. That was already

The sidewalk part of signs that are in front of stores that

sidewalk. Sidewalk.

The

I guess it's monumental signs. GREGORY Is that the one on page 17?

Page 17 is what she's talking about.

Are sidewalk signs.

Okay. Yeah. So these signs were included in there the very small chance that we're going to use it. These are if we do use these type of signs, it's going to be while we're operating, and it's going be brought inside at the end of the day. So these are weighted at base, so they have a heavy base. And these are strong winds as part of our procedures to bring them inside.

They're weighted at the bases weighted?

Weighted, yes.

Yeah, so that's going to be hard to move in and out, it?

No, we have procedures.

No. Okay, that's my only question. Anybody else have questions? Can I have a motion on this side?

I'll make a motion to accept or to approve on me.

Motion made by Member Goldich, seconded by Doris Gonzalez, member. Those in favor? It's Okay.

Did you do it? You did it again? Can.

Sorry. I just

smiled because I freaked out.

You sound like each other. Okay. I'll be more careful. Motion by Member Goldich, seconded by Member LeBate. All those in favor? Aye. Passed unanimously. Start looking over that way. Okay, we have new business quasi judicial variance interpretation appeal items. ZV twenty twenty four-nine, Cooper's Hawk, variance request, District 1.

Do we have an applicant? First of all, do you waive your quasi judicial rights now that you've heard about them? I asked her if she'd waive her rights. I don't have to do that? Hi.

Hi. Jennifer Lecina representing Cooper's Hawk.

Can you speak into the mic?

Absolutely. Thank you. Me. My name is Jennifer Lecina. I'm representing Cooper's Hawk Winery.

I brought together a presentation. The reason for us being here this evening is to request respectfully for our opening hours on Saturdays and Sundays to move from 11AM to 10AM. I have a little presentation to show you regarding our brunch program that we recently introduced. So I'm going to flip through a couple of slides to save your time. I don't know if anyone's ever dined at Cooper's Hawk, but we have some great menus and some delicious wines.

And recently, we introduced well, also we have a large wine club. It's the largest wine club in the world with 760,000 members and are continuing to grow with a lot more locations in Florida coming soon. But the reason I'm here is for our brunch program. So our current hours of operation for brunch are Saturday and Sunday from 11AM to 2PM. And we're proposing 10AM start time.

We introduced a brunch program in all of our locations aimed to provide our guests with a unique and enjoyable way to gather on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Current city code restricts businesses other than hotels, golf clubs, or racket clubs from starting liquor service until eleven a. M. And in order to operate within the code, our opening time is eleven a. M.

On Saturday and Sunday. And to maximize the benefits of our brunch initiative, we are respectfully requesting the ability to begin brunch service, including alcohol beverages, one hour earlier starting at 10AM on Saturday and Sundays. I know we proposed the full week, And I understand that there might have been some concern about that. And we are willing to amend the seven day a week proposal and just open Saturday and Sunday to accommodate our brunch hours. Why opening early matters?

Okay.

Can you hear me Okay?

Yes.

I want

you get closer to Absolutely. The

So I pulled a couple of numbers before I came down here. And we have rolled out the brunch program company wide. Most other locations do open at 10AM on Saturday and Sunday only. And in the Miami area, Pembroke Pines is the second in sales. So we do believe that opening that one hour early will help us increase the sales and additionally the tax revenue to Pembroke Pines.

We also take our alcohol service very serious. We do have company initiatives. We do require all of our managers and team members to be alcohol certified. And we do update those religiously. So we don't believe that this will cause any additional concerns in the community to open one hour early to allow for a delicious brunch menu, as you can see, and constantly changing menus.

It's just an additional offering. And we are requesting to change the hours to stay in line with all of the rest of our locations to keep it consistent company wide. I'm happy to answer any questions if you have them.

I have a question. In the Doral location, I think do you have one in Doral? Doral. Yes. Does that one open at 10AM?

It does.

And you've noticed is it busy at ten Or does it start getting busy at eleven Or

I cannot answer that. I can get back to you with an answer to that. I don't know specifically if they're busy right at 10AM if people are knocking down the doors to get in. I have been I'm from Illinois. So I have been in several of our Illinois locations for brunch. And it's a slow trickle, you know? Sometimes it's right after church that you get a little pop. But I would not imagine that everyone's barreling through the doors exactly at 10AM.

In the other locations nationally, have there been any issues, any negative impact any

We haven't heard anything so far. We've had nothing but great feedback. Thank you.

Yeah, my pleasure. So

currently, you're going to be you want to do it on Saturday and Sunday?

Yes. We host our brunch on Saturday and Sunday only. And it's a limited menu. It's addition to our regular menu. So you can come in and order brunch or off of the regular menu. So we would like to start Saturday and Sunday at 10AM as opposed to 11AM.

Okay. I don't have a problem with that, but I wouldn't like you doing that Monday through Friday. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Understood.

But it doesn't say that application. Correct.

The application was updated to ask for all the days of the week. We're happy to accept Saturday and Sunday just for the brunch hours. That's not a problem at all.

Can we change its staff?

Yes. I'm sorry. When you make your motion, just make it motion with what was offered from the applicant, which is for the weekend only.

Okay. Ms. Blaber Baldridge?

Just along that line. So as you just said on the application, it says Monday through Sunday for the tenant walk tonight. Is that something that you think that you're going to do in the future? And I'm just trying to do it now, and then you have to come back to us?

Is that what you was the thought behind it, considering we do know that hotels and racket clubs can also serve earlier than eleven So we thought we would just go for the all And seven we're only acting on the Saturday and Sunday, correct?

That's why I was asking because I know a lot of places open at ten for brunch And Monday through it's early, and people want to join Mary or whatever.

Exactly, yes. Yeah, we like to be able to provide our guests with what they want when they come in.

And Beloit, did you have a question?

I do have a question. Yes. Of all your locations, is there any location that is not opening at ten?

There are a handful. There's a few. And we're working on trying to get all of them changed. Dania Beach, currently, that's a location that also does not allow the off premise sales to start. So they do allow on premise sales for alcohol. So you can go in and order a cocktail, but you can't have your bottle sales on Sundays until noon. So that's a restriction we're working on as well. Because we'd like to have our guests come in, have brunch, and then be able to pick up their wine of the month or purchase a bottle to go home with. Currently so currently, we're only allowing 11:00 start time. And hopefully that gap of one hour, we can sell the bottles.

So how many locations was that? You said Dania Beach. Is that the only location that's not allowing you to open at 10AM?

And the state of Ohio. That's a state regulation that we can't change. State of Florida everywhere else

is You've come before the planning board there and they've turned it down?

Not yet.

Any other questions? No. Can I have a motion on this item

from someone? Make a motion to approve as written on the application.

As written?

As written.

Sunday through Sunday?

Yes. So they don't have to come back to us later.

Well, I would like to amend that.

Excuse me. I also need to have the reason A, B, or C.

Under what?

What happened?

We couldn't hear what you said.

She wants to know the reason that

There has to be like, you approve it for A, B, or C. Like, if you're looking at the bottom of the staff memo, the reason that you believe they should get the variance is because of A, B, or C, I need that as well as part of the motion. I

would go with C then. Granting the variance not incompatible with public policy will not.

Okay, so if I want to amend the motion

Madam chair. Hi. If there's a motion, then the most appropriate thing is to ask if there's a second and entertain if there's a second and then move on from there.

I can't hear you.

He wants to know if there's a second to his motion. So I'll just Is give you

there a second to Member Goldich's motion?

I'll second the motion.

So that You wanna make

an amendment? Now we vote. Correct?

Yes. No. You and you wanna make a choice to make make an amendment to change it from

Well, currently, it's written as every day. So what she, motioned was so that we stay with what is written Correct. And approve the and you've just seconded that. I seconded We're gonna vote on it.

No. No. But Linda wants to make an amendment. You wanna offer an amendment on the motion.

Madam chair, there's a motion and a second. Now it's appropriate to take a vote. Then then if if for whatever reason the vote doesn't if the vote fails, then there's a process after that.

But but once the motion has been made and seconded, isn't there an opportunity to have an amendment to make a make a request for an amendment to the motion?

What? There there if if the maker of the motion would like to entertain, an amendment, however, the most appropriate thing usually is when there's a motion and a second is to proceed with the vote.

The motion has been presented to the body and has been seconded.

Yes.

So now the chairperson wishes to ask for an amendment. And you're saying that you have to vote on the

You have to vote on the motion and

the I second

disagree with you, but Okay.

So Member Goldich made the motion seconded by Member LeVait. Got it right this time. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. All those opposed? No. Opposed? Opposed it? Gonzalez. The two Gonzalez's.

Can you call Asher?

Yeah, Madam Chair, we would ask that you have a roll call vote.

Shah, would you like to call the roll on this vote?

Member Alloy? No. Member Dee Gonzalez? No. Member Lobet?

Yes.

Chairwoman Gonzalez? No. And Vice Chairman Goldich?

Yes.

Motion fails.

Now there could be another

I'd like to make a motion to have the weekend at 10AM, not only Saturday and Sunday.

Under C as well?

Under C as well, yes. Thank you.

And I will second.

Do I have a second? Member Oloy is seconded. Motion made by Doris Gonzalez, seconded by Member Oloy. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? No. I said oy. So it passed. Four to one. Is that correct?

I'm sorry.

I was the only one opposed.

Thank you very much. Appreciate your time.

Four to one. Okay. The last item on our agenda is also quasi judicial, ZV twenty twenty five-two, Love and Hope Care Centers. And we received a quasi judicial proceeding effective person form from a Bruce Kavner on this item. And he wrote that he is in favor of the petition.

Good evening. Hi, my name is Oasis. Good evening. And I'm here Can't hear you.

Speak into the mic.

Can you hear me better?

Yeah, there you go.

Thank you. Okay, so I'm here to represent Love and Home Care Centers. And basically, we are here today because we're requesting a parking variance to allow us to have 15 parking slots instead of 22, which is what is required by the city. We think that with this center, the city of Pembroke Pines will be greatly benefited from the establishment by enhancing care for children with special needs and the local community. It would also provide vital support for families offering respite care and improving quality for life for the children with special conditions.

And that is the presentation. Are there any questions?

So just to understand, this used to be a child care center. It's going to be a child care So you foresee that you will need less spaces? Yes. Because what was it before?

Am I allowed to ask before?

So just to clarify, I apologize. Just to clarify, this was day care center use. And after a while so what happens is after the day care use left, there's a certain amount of time in which another same use could come in. After that time's over, the next business that comes in has to meet requirements. So this is nonconforming site, and they're trying to bring in a new day care with the existing parking that's there.

But because the code had changed over the years, they could not occupy the building without coming for a variance or finding more parking spaces to add to the site. So they're just basically retrofitting the existing use that was there before, but they're trying to legalize it in this case.

Thank you. How many children will be in this location? 60. Oh, 60. Thank you.

I actually went and visited the site, and there are no other businesses around it. And right now, it was being cleaned up by landscaping. So it was kind of a mess when you guys caught it.

It is.

Anyway, I read that you were going to try to stagger pickups of the children. I think that's kind of hard to do because most people come like at five or like four. You have a very wide portico. Are you planning to have like two or three cars pull up under that and then load the children into the cars and have them form a line? Or how are you going to do it?

Well, the idea is that the caregivers of the clients are going to drop them off and pick them up. At the moment, we're not planning on having transportation for the clients. So that's why we think that 15 parking slots is going to be enough.

So you're going have the cars line up and pull up under the portico?

Yes, for the drop off.

Because once you do that, then you can't really park in those 12 spaces, right? Because you'd be blocking the spaces? Entrance.

GREGORY Yes, but the parkings are the fitting parkings are on the sides and the back. And then we have a front part where they can line up for the pickups.

Okay. But you're going to try to stagger the pickup times?

I'm sorry? You're going

to try to stagger the pickup times? I read that in your paperwork.

We're trying to get into an idea for that. We're not sure about that yet for the peak of the off.

And what are your hours of operation again?

It's going to be at the moment, it's going to be nine to five.

Nine to five? Okay. So most people will be coming at five. I didn't see a problem with the site because there's really nothing around it. Across the street are townhouses or apartments, older buildings. And the property is a mess. I mean, were cleaning it up when I drove by. The landscaping people, it's

really a mess. So I think anything you do there would be nice. How many employees will you have? We're not planning on having more than 10 employees.

So if there's 15 spaces, then there's only going to be five for visitors?

Yes.

And you believe that that's sufficient?

We believe so because, like I said before, we're only going to have drop offs and pickups. It's not like we're going to have parents on the site or anybody else by

the moment.

Is there any other areas that are adjacent to it that can be utilized if we granted the variance? No.

So if I'm a mom of a small child and I want to go to your business and I want to learn about your school or the location, facility, and apply, I have to park to meet you inside, right? So that means that it only allows for five spaces to conduct business.

That is correct. But we also have another location that's not going to be our primary location. We are located also in Durham. It's not a day care center, but it's a behavioral analysis therapy, which is going to be our main Administrative? Yeah, correct.

As you're facing the building, the parking was over here on the right. But then on the left of the building, it looked like there was space for people to park a small space, like for maybe two cars to pull in there.

I wouldn't be able to answer that. I've never been to the actual facility yet.

So I'm concerned that a child doesn't feel well, and then you call a parent to come in to come and take the child out. Would there be, in view, think you would have sufficient areas for the parents to park their car, come in, and retrieve their children?

We believe so, yes.

You believe that that's going to be sufficient for that? I mean, if you have three or four kids who get sick and the parents come, what are you going to do with the parents who come with their cars? Are you looking at so that you can accommodate four or five parents who are coming to pick up the children at a time? Would you just line them up under the portico? What are you planning on doing for that?

We believe that around the area, like parking on the streets.

Okay. And is there enough open parking, public parking in that area for people to park their car and walk in?

Yes. I'd like to ask two questions. Have two questions. Number one, in your application, it says that the operating hours is from 8AM to 5PM. You said 9AM. Is it eight or nine

I'm sorry. If I said nine, my mistake is from eight

to five

So it's at eight Okay, my second question is, as I'm looking at the street, these are it appears that it's a two lane roadway, correct? This 5 Corps going onto 89th Terrace? Yeah, it's a two lane road. So the vehicles, as they're waiting for their children, are going to be blocking the street. Are they going to be able to go in under the portico and come out to the other way? Yes. Okay. Thank you.

First time. So I'm very familiar with the area. I've lived right across the street from this, on the other side of TAP for thirty something years. And I know that the building has been a very varying thing. Been kid's care, adult care, all kinds of other stuff. How many parking I went by there today, too, just to refresh my memory. Existing parking spaces on the property now is only 15, correct? Yes. Okay. So I guess we need to grant a variance because there is no other place for them to put parking.

There is no other place to put parking. I mean, there's business there's seven Eleven and that shopping center behind it on that border's Taft Street. They're on a street on the other side. And then there's, I believe, townhouses next to

it. So

I'm going to make a motion to approve it.

Can I ask one more

question before you do that, please, of our team? Is there a way that we can recommend that at least one of the spots be a drop off spot?

Well, there's a big portico over the entrance.

So you think that would be enough?

It could hold like three cars, I think.

Three cars. So maybe like a five minute parking where they could just go in and pick up their kid

Because they'd all become the next five.

It would be in conflict with short term parking. So right now, when we assign us short term parking space, it is separate from what the requirements are there. So we only allow you if you have access. In reality on this and I'm not trying to talk about the operations here but they do have the porter cache in those particular cases, and they will have the five parking spaces. Whether that will work or not will have to be up to the function of the applicant.

Thank you. Okay, you were making a motion, sir?

I did.

Do I have a second to Member Goldich's motion? Was ABRC? Under

C, yes.

And I will second it. Motion made by Member Goldich, seconded by Member Doris Gonzalez. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Good luck. It's really a terrible mess.

Been empty for knows how long. I saw him out there. He probably went by there not too long before I did.

Maybe I saw you there.

I just drove through.

Think it's going to be difficult.

Are there any items at the request of the board? Items at the request of staff?

Yes, two items. And I'll bring up one not related to that. However, in the future, you will probably see some variances for older properties in the city. Like this property, many of the items will come forward, parking lots and stuff that are coming to meet new ADA requirements. You'll start to see them lose parking spaces because of that.

You know, can't hear you.

Oh, I'm sorry. So you'll start to see older properties come into conformance because they have to meet ADA requirements. And when they do that, they'll also start to meet fire requirements where maybe perhaps they didn't in the past. So some of these buildings have been here for a long time. And there comes a decision on those properties, granting them a variance in order for them to continue operating in a legal manner in this particular way or not granting with the understanding that those properties cannot support any coming forward.

So by not supporting those, it really makes the property useless to an extent It can go to it start to go down as far as standards wise. Or it might be a sign for the owner of the property to consider demoing it and rebuilding to code. And this is kind of the battle that we're dealing with today. In a lot of these cases, like I said, especially because of ADA requirements, they're getting hit with these. So obviously, would never tell you guys how to move forward with them.

There are definitely some concerns that creep up. But don't be surprised in the future if you see some of these. So some judgment calls are going to have to be made on some of them. But just realize that in many cases, especially with single users, there is not much that we can put back there, essentially making the property nonconforming.

So Joe, along those lines, can you, when you give us the memos on this, indicate, as you had in this one, where that indicated the history of that property. But not only that, whether the viability of any increasing, the ability to increase the number of spots that were there. If you, when your engineering reports are preparing, if they could let us know if there's a possibility of adding spots.

Well, can do this because remember, this is a request by the applicants that are there. Some of them will entertain parking lot improvements, and we'll push those improvements if we can. Certain ones, even if we push the improvements, they won't be able to hit the target. So what we can do before they come in is we can let them know what you're speaking of and so that they can explain to you. Because remember, they hire engineers.

Our city engineers don't design parking lots for them. They review the design of a specialist that they hire in order to do so. Some things are pretty obvious. Ms. Gonzalez, you could see go to a site and you could see potential areas in which it looks like there could be green areas where there could be parking. And we don't realize that there's underground utilities and other items like that. So really the burden becomes on them to explain that to you. But as staff, we have no problem telling them that the board's going to want to know that you've exhausted every opportunity for parking spaces in this site.

Yeah, on this site, I couldn't see anywhere where you could add parking anywhere, unfortunately.

Second item. I know and I thank you all for your flexibility in allowing us to have the meeting tonight as opposed to two weeks ago when we come up with this. Remember, planning and zoning board meetings were originally scheduled for the second and the fourth Thursday of the month. But because of the amount of work coming in, we've been able to do it one time a month, and it's usually the second Thursday of the month. We do have a scenario, and I'm asking you guys right now well in advance.

We have a June 12 meeting. And we would like to, if it's Okay with the board, put it on June 26. And the reason we're asking for that is because July we have a break. No boards meet in July. So the closer we get it to the June, the less people feel the break because we have some small businesses that come in.

And if we start June 12, we don't meet up next till August sometime. And for some of the smaller businesses, the extra month or so is burdensome. So again, it's up to you guys. I'm bringing it up to you tonight whether or not you want to do it. If you don't know tonight, that's fine. Or you want to come back and check your calendars. But if you guys are fine with it, then we'll make it on June 26. And if not, then we'll keep the June 12 meeting.

I'm Okay with the '26.

Me

too. '26? Speaking of calendars, I thought the meeting was last week. And I went to the city calendar, it was down there for last week. I talked to Cheryl about it, and she was going to check with

the

city clerk. But that's kind of really bad to have the wrong date on the city calendar.

Well, we checked, and we see it. But I'm not going to say it wasn't there. But I'm going say as soon as that phone call happened, we went online to check. And it had been I believe the date had been in the place that it had been in for tonight. But again, I can't speak to that. I'll certainly talk to the clerk. If you guys do choose the twenty sixth, we go to we will go to the clerk immediately and be able to. We have a couple of months beforehand.

The April meeting is which day? April 10. Thank you.

We do need a vote on that, so if you guys are willing to do that.

Should you need a motion and a vote? Move that we accept the June 26 date for the June 2025.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Second by Member Goldish. Motion by Member Levyd. All those in favor? Aye.

Thank you. It is a 06:30PM code.

Yes. A 06:30, yes.

06:30.

And so there will not be a twelfth meeting. This will replace the twelfth meeting. It will be the twenty sixth.

I think

last year, did we have a lot of trouble with graduations or the June Again,

they don't graduate in here, so I guess we'll find. But again, we will talk to facilities here and make sure there's accommodations for the board members and the public if that becomes a issue.

Our meeting is adjourned. When is

the April meeting? April 10.

We have two members missing. Did they contact you, Cheryl? No. Okay. So I guess we don't excuse them.

Gerald? It's up to you guys if you want to.

April tenth. It's always a I mean,

can see if they call and say something. And at our next meeting, you can do that then if you want. Or you can excuse them even though they didn't call and let us know.

That's entirely up to you. No, I think that if they can't call in, then we shouldn't excuse them.

Agreed? I agree. We're here.

And just in case people didn't hear, she did adjourn the meeting.

Thank you, everyone.