Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the September 10th meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board to order. Marlene, would you call the roll, please?

Member Aloy? Present. Member Doris Gonzalez? Present. Member LaBate?

Present.

Vice Chairman Goldich?

Here.

Chairwoman Linda Gonzalez? Here. Alternate Member Jones?

Here.

Alternate Member Zacharias?

Here.

We have a quorum.

Does anyone have lobbying disclosure forms to submit?

No.

Is there approval of the August 13th minutes, or are there changes or additions? I'd like to move that we approve them.

I'll second.

Motion made by Doris Gonzalez, seconded by Vice Chair Goldich. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion passes. Consent agenda items. We have two. Are there any members of the public that would like to speak on either of these? Does any of the board members have questions?

Yeah, on number one. Poll number one.

Vice Chair Goldich on number one, MSC 2026005, Raintree Park.

Anybody here from Raintree?

Madam Chair? Hello?

Just talk loud. It's not working, but we can hear you, I think.

It needs to be on the record. Oh. He's bringing in a new one. Ours aren't working very well either. It's not working. Yours worked.

Mine's not working? You can't hear me?

Hello?

Turn the gain up.

Do you have a question? It's not working at all. It's not working at all. That's great. Is the person here? Yes. Oh, I see. She just popped up.

Get the sound system working, I guess.

Ours aren't working very well. MSC 2026-006, SPG Portland Leather. Anybody have any questions on that one? Any comments from the public?

No.

Do I have a motion on number two?

Do I make a motion to accept number two of the consent agenda?

Motion made by Chair Golditch. Do I have a second? I'll second. Seconded by Member Aloy. All those in favor? Aye. Okay. We're back to number one, Braintree.

Oh, okay. I was thinking they did it before.

Are we okay?

It's going to have to be, I guess. It's not very loud.

What's your objection? Can you introduce yourself first, please? Hi, I'm Dennis.

I'm the property manager. Hi. Can you hear me?

Sorry. I'm the property manager for Ranger at Mayfair. We're here for the playground.

OK. I actually only had one question for it. It's not regarding the playground itself. However, I did see that you didn't allow for any parking, and it's on a main street.

Yes, we're not adding any parking.

Okay, so it's a big complex, and if people come over there, where are they going to put their cars if they decide to drive over?

Most of the residents walk the community right now, so that's not something that the board had thought about, adding additional parking. Stop. Stop.

Mr. Chair, it was an item that we brought up toward the end of the item, but they assured us that they are going to walk in the community.

I can't hear you. Mr. Chair, it's something that we brought up to the applicant.

It's not a requirement to have parking there for that particular use. It would be their intent to have people walk through that area. My guess is, if I were guessing, they'll probably be coming back for an

My only concern was if somebody did decide to drive over there, or whatever, where they would park their vehicles to keep the road open. That's all.

Most of the residents like to walk. Even for events that our social committee puts, most of them will walk wherever the event is.

People with little kids don't like to walk.

Well, that was kind of my point. OK.

So there's a question about the parking? If we are going to add parking.

Can you talk into the microphone, please? Sorry. Yeah, I'm one of the board members. My name is Nicholas Saenz. I'm the treasurer of the Rain Tree Association. Can you say that again, please? Nicholas Saenz. I'm the treasurer of the Master Board Association for the Rain Tree. So you were asking about parking. No, there is no intention to add parking at the moment because that area is You know, it is close to our home, basically. It's close to the lake on the other side. There is no access on the west side of the playground. I mean, it's in the middle of the community. So the idea is that people will go and, as they do now, they walk in this area and they enjoy the green area. So there shouldn't be any reason to add any parking, you know.

OK. The question was purely as a safety thing in case somebody does decide that they want to drive there. I mean, they can park on this side. I understand it's not a requirement. I just. Sure.

I mean, they can park on the side for now. Like they do now. You know, they go and they play in this area. And the townhomes are in front, you know, across the street, so they can just walk.

I know it's not there right now. It's at the clubhouse right now, and you're going to move it there. Yeah, not at the moment, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, if staff had no objection to it and it's not a requirement, then fine. Okay. I'm good with it.

Any other questions? No. No. Can I have a motion to approve? I'll make the motion to approve.

I'll second it.

Motion by Member LaVey, second by Member Doris Gonzalez. All those in favor? Aye.

Aye. Alloy.

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. Alloy made the motion. What? Alloy made the motion. I made the motion.

Oh, OK. And I second.

I can't hear much of anything. That's OK. I'm very sorry. That's OK.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. OK, on to new business, quasi-judicial variance interpretation appeal items. There are two items that can be heard together, but they have to be voted on separately. Do these people need to be sworn in because it's quasi-judicial? OK, so anyone speaking on this issue needs to stand up.

Anyone that intends to speak on the application, please stand, and I'm gonna swear you in. Sir, is it only gonna be you? It's fine if it's only one person, but anyone that may speak, I can just swear you in. It doesn't mean you have to, but if I don't swear you in, then you're not gonna be speaking on the item. All right, sir. I'm going to swear you in. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you. You may proceed.

Thank you. Joe, you want to go? Which one? What?

I'm just trying to open up. This one? Yes. There you go.

OK. So basically, the mosque has been there for more than 25 years. We've initially applied to get the mosque building in the site plan. SP 1990, I don't remember the number, but it had a mosque building, a multipurpose building, and had imam's quarter, the pastor's house, and then a storage building. But we built a mosque in 2010. In 2007, we got the CEO. And after that, we were going for multipurpose. The multipurpose building is to serve for the, when we have Ramadan, during Ramadan, we have 30 days. We fast and then break the fast. And then we go to the mosque to pray. That building serves only for eating purpose and dining purpose. That was initially planned. And when we approached Joe, and Joe said, it has been a long time, the permit expired. And the elevation and the plan differ. So you have to go for another site plan. And we did go for site plan, which was approved. So we built that building. And after that, we had another site plan to have enclosing between the space between the mosque and the multipurpose. If you look at the plan, I think. Let me go show you this one. This building is the mosque. And this is, if you can see, this building is our multipurpose building where the dining facility is there. We applied to enclose this space and then still have the imam quarter and have a storage building. After that, we abandoned to do the imam quarter and the storage building. We shelved on that idea. And then we're just adding small space. That's due to giving the religious study, we call it Quran study or Bible study, to be clarified. So while we're adding that, that's where the trigger, the parking issue. We had always had the parking issue. satisfying the need for the mosque. So since we don't occupy mosque and the multipurpose together, so we wear this. On the practical purpose, we have it. And then we have, it is monitored and it was our volunteers, which are all there, try to park it and adjust the parking. And it runs peacefully. But when we did this small 1,000 square feet building addition, which is only 10% of the building, we're going to add for only solely for Islam religious study that's done on only Sundays when the school is off and the kids come and their parents drop and they go out so that's only the minor addition part we were told that then the parking calculation triggered having both building being used simultaneously with 8.5 for the mosque and 5 per thousand for the multipurpose building in addition to the addition that we are adding. So we have 96 parking we need. We came up with 66 parking, and we are just saying that it satisfies the need. We need variance to get 30% down on that one. And then if we get that 66, the half-half should be asphalt, so 33. We have 25 paved parking, so eight parkings less. So we need two variance, one's a reduction in the parking and the reduction in the paved parking.

Question. Can you move your mouse on here so that that little box goes over? Because it's covering some. Oh, sorry. There we go. Thank you. Thank you. I couldn't see the numbers. Okay.

And then the other thing. Can you expand it?

Yeah. I'm not used to this.

I'm an old school guy. I'm used to doing it here.

This one?

Yeah. If you can make it bigger. It's just hard to see the drawing as well.

I think in the bottom where you see the little circle with the plus and the minus.

There you go.

Thank you.

Much better.

And the numbers are there. Numbers are there.

So what you're saying, just so I can make sure that I'm understanding.

Right.

The requirement is 96 total parking. Right. You have 66, but because of the different buildings are being used at different times, 66 meets your needs. Yes. So there's no need in your, from what you're saying, to get the 96, or to need the 96. Is that correct? Exactly. Okay, thank you.

And that was a contention. That was the one we got three site plan approvals prior.

Pamela Bade, do you have any questions or comments?

I just would, you currently say that the building is not going to be used other than for instructional purposes on Sunday for the students. Do you have intentions of expanding the use of that building in the near future?

No, the continuous, whatever programs we have will be same thing.

You're not going to enlarge or enhance the They're currently existing.

Exactly, ma'am.

Okay.

And I have a pastor to watch for that.

Okay.

Vice Chairman Gomes, do you have any questions?

I do. I just want to clarify. So you don't actually have 66 right now. You only have 41. Is that correct? Yes.

And you're adding the 25.

Yes. Thank you for that. Okay. And then the building that you're adding... Again, it's hard for me to see it, sorry. Is on the east side, on the 196th Avenue side of the property?

That's a grass park, yes. Right. And then we are adding the asphalt on the west side.

Right, the asphalt parking is on the west side of it. Yes, correct. Okay, so, right, again, so just to clarify again, you have 41 now, you need an extra, you're asking for the extra 25. Right. Bring it to 66, okay.

Do you have any questions?

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. The building you said is on the east side, but the east side of your property is not east of 196. It's still west of 196, correct?

Yeah, yeah.

Your property is west of 196. Your property is west of 196. That's what I wanted. Okay. Well, that's what I wanted to make sure.

I don't know what was clear on that.

Do you have any questions?

Just for clarification, you know, over time, this mosque has grown, and they build, and they... And please correct me if I'm wrong. They only build when they fundraise the monies to be able to build. So over time, even though this box has been there for over 20-something years, small bits of the box have been built. And their programming changes over time. Sometimes they came in the first time with a very bunch of different buildings. And then some were scaled down, and then some were enclosed. We've been working with them over the years to say, okay, this building would park at this. This building would park at that. But as we came to this final building, which I believe it will be the final on this particular site, we just said, you know what? We're going to count this all as house of worship for parking purposes. You go get the variance through the planning and zoning board should they desire to give that to you. And if the justification statement that talks about all the things that are being done in there will be enforced should you get the variance to go through. So if there are changes in the future to the operations and they're not consistent with the justification statement or the statements that they're making here tonight, then we will tighten them. But we just felt this was cleaner. Otherwise, we have to kind of police every single time. Is this being used as a multi-use building just said let's make it all church 97 is what they're coming for 66 is what they can apply they're adding additional spaces on the site grass spaces and and uh paved spaces in order to make this happen the grass spaces the grass if you look at this particular site i'm not advocating either way for this item site, there's retention on the west-hand side of the project, which makes it impossible to put anything there. They must retain that. And then they're paving as much of the property as they possibly can while trying to leave grass. So the second part of this is of the 66 spaces that they would be required, should you approve this particular plan, then no more than 50% are allowed to be grassed. So because of the way they're using the grass space, they have no choice but to use more than summation of these two variances together.

Thank you. Yeah, I've got, Joe, if you could clarify, though, because the, because what we're addressing here are parking spaces. So, now I'm confused. So, it says they're required 97.

Based on all of the square footage there at church use, at house of worship uses.

Okay, and then the 66 is what they're asking to be allowed. They don't want 97.

66 is what they're providing on the property because logistically that's as much as they can provide on the property.

But they should have, everybody understands, they should have 97.

So based on, if you do the individual uses, you say this is another purpose use, and you say this is an office, and you say this is a house of worship, then they should have much less. They probably should have around the 66 that's being asked for. But we're making them do it all as church with the operational portions brought forward. So everybody's clear, should this pass, that the 66 bases are granted, including the variants, subject to the provisions that are in the operational.

And if we agree to that, they will never be required to have more than that.

They really can't that's not realistic

All right, well, I'll tell you why I want to be so precise about that is because I live out there. And for anyone who didn't get a chance to really take a good look at it, where this is set up is on the old 190. 6th Avenue, and it's a very narrow street that services, I want to say there's a few dozen parcels and residences back there, you know, larger. It's a very unique section of Pembroke Pines where if you want, say you want to get an acre, you want to put your house on an acre of land, that's pretty much the only place in Pembroke Pines. Well, maybe back in the far west but that's the you know that's the place it used to be like a hidden place for it and that's the only access is this little two lane road and there's really no you know there's like a swale that drops off on this side and on this side you've got a canal and so I guess they're good drivers yeah so I and I go on that and then when they built the new 196 that goes around to 184 and so I'm on that road multiple times a day different times day and night two three times every day and so I get a a good sense of everything that's going on at your mosque. And the parking can be a real problem. It's not just one time of year. There are many times. where that little narrow street, one whole side of it is like cars, people parking the whole way. And honestly, I didn't know what you were presenting tonight. I saw the big sign in front of the mosque for a couple of weeks now. And I thought, I swear to God, I thought, oh, I hope they found a way to add some parking somewhere. And so. That is my concern. I mean, you need parking. Maybe you don't need it every day, but you need parking. And it's a real barrier. And it could be dangerous at times if something happened at one of those residences.

If I may, that's great insight that you're sharing. They're going to be adding 25 spaces. So if there's not 25 cars parked in the street, that's going to zero it out, right? Because right now they have 41, and they're going to be adding 25 spaces.

But it reduces the amount that they will ever have to have. You know what I mean?

Well, if you go to their website, they're having a fundraiser in November to raise funds to purchase additional land for parking. So they are thinking ahead about Purchasing land to add more parking because they have it on their website. See, I read your website.

Whose land is who's selling land? Is someone selling land or you're hoping to buy it?

The other thing I might add to that. The problem is the land is, we will buy the land if it's clean.

If it's available, yes.

If it's not available, it also should be clean wetland. Then going through the horrendous ordeal of getting the wetland cleared to get a parking.

Well, that's the thing to the left.

That's going whole Florida, Tallahassee, back to Broward County, then to and all this.

Well, that's the thing. Because if I'm not mistaken, to the left of you, It's not cleared. It's completely dense of vegetation.

And the west is also the same.

Yes.

Melaleuca.

And then there's a couple of houses along there, and I don't know of anyone looking to move.

We have an option to do that, but the traffic we control with the additional parking and the drop-off, we have our way of getting it.

I'm just afraid of limiting the...

But a matter of fact, if you see the soccer field, they have their traffic back up more than we ever, ever had in our lifetime.

If I can also, this is another situation where we've run into quite a few times where... They can only have as much parking as their property allows. And this is what their property currently allows, is the 66 parking. They don't have anywhere to put 97. Well, because they put buildings on it. Excuse me, I'm talking. There's nowhere for them currently to put 97 spots. As a religious institute, they don't need to have the 97 spots. They want to expand. They buy the land if they need to. They'll expand it. At this time, this is what's going on with them. And whether people are parking along the street, that's up to the police department or people that live along that street to report it. And if they're not reporting it, and if the people that live there have no problem with it, then that's on them. I know exactly what you're talking about. When I was working, I used to drive fire trucks up and down that street all the time before the other road was there. And it's very narrow before the mosque was there, obviously. But regardless of any of that fact, and I understand where you're coming from about driving it down into parking, or the people parking along the street, they have nowhere else to put parking spaces at this point. Well, in the future, you say they're going to buy, hopefully buy the land, they'll expand the parking, maybe. Excuse me, I'd like to ask. And I mean, that's really all they can do at this point.

I'd like to ask a real quick question. Member Zacharias, do you have any questions?

Real quick, Madam Chair, I just want to get some clarity, because I'm looking at the map here. It looks like 196, that road, which I am familiar with that road as well. But that road, there's two sides of that road. 196, when you come off of Pembroke Road, it doesn't go directly to your property. You have to keep going.

It's a new road.

Yeah, you have to keep going north and then go around the road. Right.

We all know that.

Yeah, yeah. I just want to make sure because it's not actually going because the traffic to the soccer park and going north into Pines is not really going to be affected by the mosque. Right. because you have to turn and go around. So that issue that cars will be on that narrow road really doesn't apply. That's what I wanted to clear up. Exactly. It's the old 196. That's what I wanted to clear up. Thank you. We were talking as if it was just one road. It's the old 196. That's what I wanted to be clear on.

Thank you. Can I know how many members have this most right now? How many? Members have this most. How many cars we can expect? At a time.

Like how many members in the house of worship or?

How many members in this mosque? Right. Yeah, it will be around 200 to 250. On a given day, it will be less than 50, 10. Only on a Friday afternoon, Shabbat, is that you might expect 200 people.

Yeah.

That's the only thing. OK.

Thank you.

I have a question about your multipurpose room. Is it strictly used by the mosque, or can it be rented out to other members if they want to have something going on there?

If it's a private, not rented, nothing like that. It's not rented. It's only for religious.

OK, it's only for mosque-related things.

OK. Any other questions? Yeah, I move that we accept it under I move that we approve it under Section A.

And I'll second that. Okay, we're talking about ZV-20-26-007 instead of 9766 spaces. I need a reason on the variance. A. Okay, motion made by Member LaBate, seconded by Doris Gonzalez, citing A. All those in favor? Aye. Everybody vote. Motion passes. Yay.

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Now we have one more. We have to vote for one more. One more.

One more.

We have to vote on the other one.

Thank you, guys. Thank you.

We have to vote on the other one. We have one more to vote on. Thank you. ZV2026008. We're up to 63% of the required parking may be surfaced on grass or lawn. And let's hope it's not wet. I have a motion for that.

I'll make a motion where we accept also under A.

Second? Second. Who did that? LaVey. Well, I wasn't looking that way. Motion by Vice Chair Goldich, second by Member LaVey. And A, all those in favor? Aye. Motion passes. Thank you. You guys are in business.

Really appreciate it. Thank you.

Now we get to listen to a Sunshine Law refresher from our esteemed attorney.

I thought I missed it last week. I saw it in the minutes. I said that they recessed it. I said, oh. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you.

That's interesting.

Okay. Ready to go?

All right. Karina Nogueras, Assistant City Attorney. So I was supposed to have a PowerPoint for you all to follow. I'm going to ask that Marlene send it later as an email, because I had sent it for the last meeting. And since we didn't get to it, it's not here. So just bear with me while I go through the notes. I'd like to spend a few minutes going over the Florida Sunshine Law refresher. I know all of you are seasoned members of the board, so this will just take a few minutes, but it's very important that every once in a while we hear about Sunshine Law requirements that you are required to adhere to. So the purpose of the Sunshine Law is to ensure that the public has the opportunity to observe and participate in the decision-making process of governmental bodies like we are here today. The law is primarily found in Section 286.0.11 of Florida statutes, and it requires that meetings of public boards or commissions be open to the public. The basic rule is that when matters may foreseeably come before this board, any discussion has to occur in a properly noticed public meeting. And as I mentioned, as members appointed to a municipal board, you are all subject to the Sunshine Law. Any gathering of two or more members to discuss a matter must be open to the public and minutes must be documented. Emails, texts, DMs, and phone calls can trigger Sunshine Law issues. The safest practice is to avoid discussing any board business with other board members outside of a properly noticed meeting. and also using non-members like city professional staff as a conduit to transmit information is a violation of the Sunshine Law. The penalties for violating the Sunshine Law vary from civil fines all the way to a criminal misdemeanor. And ultimately, Sunshine Law is about public trust and transparency. If you ever have any doubts as to whether an action falls under a Sunshine Law violation, feel free to ask me or any member of the city attorney's office for guidance, and we will gladly help you. And then I'm going to make two notes, one about conflicts and a comment about public records. So PNC decisions can sometimes involve property owners, developers, clients, neighbors, and people that we are familiar with in the community that you may have a relationship with. Simply knowing someone or having an opinion about a project is not a conflict. There has to be a special private gain or loss when you vote on a specific item that may trigger a voting conflict. Same if you think that there may be an issue, that there may be a conflict. I just ask that you reach out to me or any member of the city attorney's office and we can give you the information for you to make the decision on whether you're going to be abstaining from voting or not. And then the final comment is on public records. Basically, any communication about board business is public record, including emails and text messages. I know this came up a few months ago when you were asking whether you could receive text reminders about the upcoming meetings. If we move to receiving texts, the texts also become public record. So any time that you're doing any communication, even if it's on a personal cell phone, personal email, if you're talking about anything that has to do with this board, with professional staff, with myself, anyone in the city, it is considered a public record. Basically, as a practical rule, just keep communications professional, like I'm sure you all do, but just here to offer that reminder. Do you have any questions? That's all I have for you all. Thank you.

Thank you. And we could hear you. Any items at the request of the board? No? Items at the request of staff?

Nothing except I have to say goodbye to Miss Julia, who has been working with us for three years. She is moving on to . of bigger and better things. You may see her around, it's possible, in the developed world. But we're really going to miss her. She did a great job for us. I couldn't say anything better about the work that she does.

Thank you for your hard work.

Yeah, we're going to miss you. Good luck. Good luck. Do you get a replacement job?

I don't know. I don't know. It'll take us some time.

There's no public, so we have no items to request to the public. So this meeting is adjourned. It's 7.07. Thank you.