Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

To order. Cheryl, will you call the row, please?

Yes, ma'am. Member Alloy? Present. Member Doris Gonzalez? Present. Member LeBate? Present. Vice Chairman Goldich?

Present. Here.

Chairwoman Gonzalez? Here. Alternate member Jones? Here. Alternate member Zacharias?

Here.

We have a quorum.

Does anyone have any lobbying forms to submit? No. Can I have approval of the minutes from February 12, or are there any corrections?

I make a motion to accept the minutes from February 12.

Do I have a second? Motion made by Member Goldich, seconded by Member Doris Gonzalez. All those in favor? Aye. Everything we have is on the consent agenda item. Are there any members of the public who would like to address any of the consent agenda items?

I would like to poll item number four. What? Four? Yeah, four.

Okay. Member Lawyer would like to poll number four. Is there an applicant here? Come on down.

Madam Chair, if it's Okay, before we move forward with that, can we approve the rest of the consent agenda with the exception of item four if there are no more polls.

Okay. Are there questions on one, two, three, or five? Can I have a motion for approval?

I'll make a motion. We approve all consent agendas except item four, which was pulled by Memorilloi.

Second. Second by Doris Gonzalez. All those in favor? Aye. Motion passes. Okay, we're back to item four, MSC twenty twenty six, six Chase Bank.

Ma'am, before you start to speak, I need you to give your name and what you're representing. And then there is a request to speak form that before you leave, will you please fill that out and give it in to us. You don't have to do that right now just before you leave. Thank you.

Member Lawrie, would you like to ask some questions?

Yes. Well, one of the main reasons why I pulled the item is because I'm noticing that a lot of the commercial buildings that are making paint changes are adopting this more of a gray color. And I have a concern that it's just going to make the city look a little bit more industrial looking. I think we just have one that was approved meeting that was a dark gray. So I just wanted to kind of just bring that concern up and get the consensus from the board, from the committee, and hear why this color is being chosen by

This is an item that you painted before you came before the board, right?

Yes, ma'am. That is correct.

I'm sorry. Could you please state your name?

Yes, my name is Rosa Vazo. I'm with Merit Engineering Consultants. I'm the architect. Can

you speak up a little more?

Yes, good evening. My name is Rosa Basso. I'm with Merit Engineering Consultants. And I'm part of the design team.

Any other members have comments? When I looked at the pictures in the back up, it looked sort of like a somber color. But when I went out there, the site is surrounded by a lot of trees. So the dark brown kind of blended in with the trees. But you really need to come before us before you do a painting project. Yes, ma'am. We understand. Amber Labate? Anybody else?

Wait, this was done already? This work was done already? Staff, can I ask you? It's not it's not apparent. I didn't notice that in there.

It was on there.

It's on the back of the page.

I don't know why I'm missing that.

So just for clarification, they were coming in for, I believe, permits for their signage. And we found out at that particular time that they had painted. So we had them come in front of you all tonight.

My concern is just that we're getting too many grays and it's just setting a different look for the city.

To staff, if I may speak. So I know that there really isn't a repercussion if someone decides to do something before coming here. It's not like they get any penalties or anything like that. Is there any way that we can bring it to the table so that in the future we can be proactive about that so that if they do that, they either have to undo it or there's a fine?

Right. So we kind of talked about this at the last meeting. One of the things that you guys could do as a board as we get closer to board night is to recommend some sort of action to the city commission. Like I said, an it could increase in fees after the fact fees, other items like that. But realistically, like the gentleman before had said, there isn't a permit for it.

We try to advise as best we can when businesses come in. And it happens every once in a while. We're trying to do the best we can to reach out for that. And that may be something we can look into further as a staff. Maybe there's something we can do when they come in and they get their LBTR or something like that that we can potentially let them know again, hey, before you're doing that.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

City Attorney Goren, do you have any suggestions on this issue?

If I may, thank you, Madam Chair. Good evening. The The conundrum is the conundrum. That is that there's no specific permit. I think that Joe has carefully crafted his response to you with regard to what could be potentially considered by the mayor and commission, which might be a reasonable place to be.

But there's no specific penalty that I can hang my hat on legally to suggest anything except the requirement that they fail to come before you for that approval. That's a fact, and they should have. The end result is there's no attendant penalty to their non appearance, although they are here tonight in short of taking a baseball bat, being unhappy with the conclusion, you certainly have the ability to consider the applicant's request, to debate the applicant's request, and to make a decision based upon the information that you have. But at the present time, you have limitations on punitive action against the applicant. But Joe does have some good ideas. And this is not an uncommon issue that comes up from time to time.

Actually, it's coming up a lot more.

More, yes. So

what can be done to discourage it?

Well, the answer is that there may need to be some legislation to enhance the ability to enforce at this point. I can't even begin to suggest a code violation because it's not a violation of So code to do you can't place code into a charging position against the applicant because it wouldn't have wasted resources to do that. But there needs to be some adjustment to this issue. And I think this might be a good point in time to recognize that, put it in annual report, make a recommendation. I will be with the commission at some point when that recommendation or the source of discussion comes up. I'm happy to address it from that side of the dais than this one.

Madam Chair, I'd like to from where I'm sitting, it's already done. And there's no real violation. So I would recommend that we approve it and that during our annual meeting with the commission that we strongly suggest that there's some thought behind some type of repercussions. Right.

I second that. You're making a motion? Yes. Motion made by Doris Gonzalez, seconded by Member LeVait to accept the paint job that's already been done. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Motion passes.

Thank you.

Thank you. I opposed.

Okay, we're up to items at the request of the board. Discussion and possible action on the annual board report. Any comments?

Other than what member of McDonnell has just requested, that we include in our annual report an indication as to some monitoring of people who perform a service prior to getting the requisite approvals and that some kind of penalty or repercussion be included in the ability to stop that kind of action.

It's a poorly

put Agreed. Anyone

else? I agree with that.

Well, think this was mentioned at the last meeting. It's just conversation, just something to think about. When we have issues like this, is it wise to have it in the consent agenda? Guess we can always pull it. But if we're not aware of it and we just want to go ahead and approve the consent agenda, it's something that can get overlooked. Is there something we might want to consider of items like that that have already if something that's already been done without prior approval, that it should be not in the consent agenda? It should be placed as part I know we had that conversation last time. It's just something to think about.

Because before, it was happening once a year, but now it's happening once a month. So I think that at this point, we really do have to address it. And think

that we don't overlook it.

Well, I'm glad you pulled that because I've made the statement several times now. If I see something on the consent agenda that's been done, I'm going to pull it no matter what it is. It's going to get pulled. I want to hear from them. They're going to have to be in front of us at some point, either before or after. And I did not catch that one. I wish it would be like I was two years old. This is done already.

Other embarrassing the person that's here and I understand the need for that as well but other than that, we really don't have any teeth with which to remove that from the consent agenda. If it has met all of the requirements and the staff has indicated that it is in compliance with the code, I mean, than embarrassing them and stating for the record that we know that they did this

Well, no. Just by them not getting approval,

ahead of time Do we have the right not to approve them once it's completed? There's no law

about Well, yeah. Just to clarify this, it is on consent agenda. We do not have a color code within the city. The items come in front of you almost administratively. But you could, in this particular case, you could turn down an item and they would have to go back and potentially repaint it. But years ago, when we were first dealing with this with another some of you may have been on this board, some not. We had a lot of items move forward. And the board had said to us, why are we seeing some of these things? If there's not a code here, why are we seeing it? But as the Architectural Review Board, you still do have purview over architecture and colors in the city as determined by the board here.

That's basically why it stays on there. We did try to do a color palette many years ago, a color code. And we would bring some colors in front of you. We entertained that idea. The board itself said, no, we want to see the colors we want to see. Because sometimes the color may be appropriate for one thing. It may not be appropriate for another. And sometimes the combination of colors for some of our board members is is more more of a discussion point than necessarily the color itself. So again, that's why we keep it on the agenda. Consent agenda was created for this reason by this board, an earlier version of this board.

The city commission uses the consent agenda very well. I mean, most of our items are on the consent and are pulled successfully. And in our staff reports, we do report whether it's been painted or not. And of course, you guys always have the opportunity as you're reviewing these reports to visit the and to comment. You'll see it yourself, if that happens to be the case. But again, we're open to doing whatever you guys want to do. If you don't want a consent agenda anymore, we won't do one. It's just an easier way for people to get back and forth.

Think it's nice, I think, to have just because we're here representing our community. And we want to make sure, even though there's nothing in the books that gives you the right, I think we should have the voice and represent our but I think that we should be proactive, But to prevent that, maybe not give a palette, but maybe say you're not going to get approval until you get this color approved by the board. So maybe that's how we'll go ahead and do our recommendation to the commissioners.

Well, I wanted to respond also to what Rosalia said. And I don't think it's about embarrassing. I think it's more that if it's something that we want to recognize, if it's an issue, how can we better address it?

No question about it.

And I do like the consent agenda because it does help the meeting go along. And it's something that doesn't need discussion. But if it's more of what we were talking about, if it's something that has already been done and they're trying to pull a fast one, let's say, maybe we should be aware that we should discuss about it. And then talking about penalties, I think that if everyone is in a majority decides not to approve a certain color, the penalty would be that they would have to change the color, correct? So there is a penalty. They do.

But the penalty is in existence.

They have to go and pay to get the color changed.

A question on that. That's a good idea.

Do we have

a don't think power we've ever done it. No. The board, I don't think we've ever done that.

Do we have the power to do this?

Yeah. Well, that's one thing. And the other thing too is legally, couldn't they come back and challenge that ruling and say, we're not going to change the color. The staff already approved it. And even though the board is saying no It's a lawyer question. We did it, we're going to keep it, kind of thing, and then turn around and sue the city or the border or whatever over it.

Anything, Madam Chair, through the chair. Anything is possible. I mean, to the extent that someone would be aggrieved by that requirement, it's tough to go back in time to fix a problem such as a building which is noncompliant with the code and to require which courts have done, by the way requiring a demolition and potential reconstruction. This is less onerous. This is a paint job, as said by the chair. And I say that not in a pejorative way, but it's what it is. And if they knew and they painted it because it didn't matter, that's regrettable. But if they did it not knowing, that's another issue entirely. Do you have authority to potentially not approve a site plan or an exception of some type where there's a noncompliant party? The answer is yes.

And could you potentially order it to be done? Potentially, yes. It would be onerous. It could be challenged. I'm not suggesting giving any legal advice to the applicant who's unhappy with the result. But tonight's a classic example of somewhere where you try to be rational and reasonable, but they're also not compliant. But there's no attendant penalty to that noncompliance. So there's an old theory about, as opposed to asking permission, do it anyway and then ask for

Forgiveness. One

of the other aspects, too, is that it's not usually the business owner that appears before. It's just the painter.

Yes, correct. So

the business owner doesn't really feel anything.

And one more thing. Staff's doing its job. I mean, they're doing the professional analysis that's required of them. They're not deviating for some particular personal benefit or for some other reason. They're doing their job. But if there's some way to find a way to encapsulate or to capture this kind of opportunity, if the commission is interested, the city commission, in doing something that would energize, better said, a decision by an applicant doing the right thing before they make a decision that's not provided for. Better said, we could write that ordinance. We could write that provision.

Would the applicant have the opportunity to appeal to the commission itself? Or do they have to do it legally

if they have new?

I think that's an interesting question. Because typically, PNC board decisions and Board of Adjustment decisions are appealable to the commission. So the theory would be that they could take it further.

They could take it directly to the commission and then follow from there.

Right. Yes. There are some decisions that are made that could go right to court. I forget exactly what the code says, but there are some that are directly they're called petition for cert, which would go to court and bypass the commission, where there's been a theoretical substantial departure from the essential requirements of law. We've had some of those issues this past year with regard to the challenges of Memorial Health Care, where they challenged the HCA facility.

They also challenged the MDX zoning on the Baptist facility. Those were challenges of zoning ordinance and also one on the site plan, all four of which were dismissed by Memorial this past year. We were winning, so we got to win more when they dismissed it. Thank you. You've asked valid questions. These are not out of sorts issues. They are real issues. But I think you have a very receptive mayor and commission these days that are probably interested in this issue.

Plus, tried to get the appeals process updated. And my proposal for that is still being ignored. But even though people are aware of it, it's still ignored. I don't know why. But trying to tighten that up because it's just old and doesn't really it's just ineffective as we've seen because there's been some things, a couple of things overturned that we know should not have been overturned.

But it wouldn't hurt to and I've brought this up before, too to have something more defined about the color code for Pembroke Pines. Because I started to do some research. And we're the only city around here who doesn't have some sort of ordinance about that. And I think we could really tighten that up as well. So that's something we can You mean as

far as the color palette?

I mean, you could go there or not go that far, but just be more restrictive

just How kind of narrow they going paint it? Without you knowing it, how can you be more restrictive?

I'll be glad to put it together as to how to do it or what you could do. And then what the details are, we could work out. This is the planning and zoning board. Would that come out

of the architectural committee, though?

Well, remember, this board doubles as the architectural committee. So you have those items. Just one item I'd bring up to you guys again, we're talking about we are the planning and economic development department. So I have to sometimes take the planner hat off and use my economic development hat and say here that a lot of these penalties that we may be looking at for businesses like banks or large department stores are not that big of an issue to them. But to the small business owner who has a small mom and pop shop or something like that and accidentally paints a building, the idea of making them repaint the building could make or break them at a certain point.

Whatever decides to be done and I'm not suggesting you guys have to come up with the answer. It may be you come up with a problem, give it to commission, and commission asks staff to come up with solution. But whatever you do, we try to look at it from the most impacted to the least impacted and try to find that middle ground if we can.

I think that if we do find a solution, it would be clear and the expectations would be shared ahead of time so they would know, right? This is what we need to do. This is not what we need to do. And that would affect everyone. So I think as long as we're proactive, think we're good.

And the reasoning behind all of this is not to go after anybody or punish anyone, is to preserve the look of the city. I think we're all here because we care about the city we live in. And we want our city to be one of the nicest city in Florida. So that's where my view comes from.

My last comment to you guys about this, and then I'll let you guys continue whatever. We've had different looks throughout the city. You can certainly see through the 2000s we had the Mediterranean look. You can now see a lot. City center you can kind of see a more modern look. We've been through whites, grays, pinks, yellows, beauty yellows, and other colors that just come on as the businesses change. And they all seem to change at the same time. Gray period, it comes on. We just recently got into the white period. So everybody went light.

And even your homes, you could see in your neighborhood when they painted because dark was in and light was not. So again, I'm just bringing that to your attention because they do change over time. So when you say a look for Pembroke Pines, it's to look at that period something to consider.

Thank you. Thank you for that.

It would be good to have something a little bit stronger to be able to rely on when we want to because just to contain people like Mr. Mele, who railroaded this board, if I do say so, very skillfully. And I was quite aware of it. Yet there was nothing I could do. So now we're going to have a bright yellow building again out west that I have to look at every day.

And it would just be good to have a little bit more control. So if everyone's up for it, mean, I'm glad to put something together. Not specifically. I mean, I'm not trying to say it's like my, you

know, what I say. I would only ask that you remove the word railroaded out because I think we had an an ample discussion about what was going on there. And our our limitations were quite limit were quite strong as to whether we should or or should or should not approve. So I I would just ask you to remove the word railroad out of your commentary if you want. I can't,

though, because

It that's exactly what wasn't on Pines Boulevard. And we're not going to revisit that again because we need

to move

on. One person at a time, please.

I would certainly ask you not to revisit those particular things.

No, of course.

The locations of buildings within the city probably will play a part if this board believes that to be the case.

Thank you. Thank you.

I wanted to let you know there's a maybe you already know there's a bill going through the Florida legislature that would give new homeowners between 1,000 and $5,000 to help with costs of buying a home. And it would be capped at $5,000,000 a year. And then in the Sunbelt, Arizona, Nevada, states that have a lot of empty land, they are building homes strictly to rent. And in Arizona, it's a 1,000 square foot home for $2,300 a month. And the builders thought that it would be people that were foreclosed on and got kicked out of their homes.

But they found it's more young professionals and retired people that are moving into these houses. And they're built specifically to be rented. Anyway, that's all I got. Staff, do you have

anything? Wait, wait. We need to back up. And I need a motion as to, are we going to add language for the city commission to see on the annual board report? And are we ready to forward that to the commission once we add that language?

I didn't think we needed a motion to add to that. We needed a motion to add to that?

At the minimum, I need a consensus that we all agree that this is the report that we're going to send to the commission. And you had some discussion that sounded like you might want to add something in reference to the paint.

Yes. I made that motion. And that was clear that my motion was to approve it with also that in our annual meeting, we share with the commission that we want to change the legislature to be proactive.

For some repercussions for doing the work prior to getting approval.

Maybe language that states that prior to paint, need to come and bring it to us. We don't have to limit what colors, but

they But they can come to know that already. They know that already.

So we

need to have some sort of consequence.

Accountability. I didn't understand you were making a motion. Thought you were just talking about it. So Doris Gonzalez has made a motion to add to the annual report something about

Concerns about the paint prior to

To enhance enforcement or to encourage I don't know how we're to move.

Any modifications without prior approval. Okay. Do we have a second?

So what will happen after I get the second? I will add that to the report that I gave you. You will look that over and make sure that that's what you want said. And we'll go from there.

So do you need a second for the motion? Do you need a motion Yes. For need a second for Doris' motion. Motion made by Doris Gonzalez, second by member Aloy. Aloy. All those in favor? Aye. Aye.

Thank

you.

Any members of the two public present like to say anything? No? Okay. Meeting is adjourned.

Madam Chair, just remember that next meeting is not a month from now. It's the twenty third of the month.

Yeah. You gave us a list of all the dates, right?

April 23?

Is that the next date?

Yeah. Twenty third of the

They gave the list of all the meetings. No. April 23. Okay.

So that'll be the

So I adjourn? So that's

why the third Make a motion to adjourn? I think she already did. She did. Oh, sure.

Did she adjourn already? Did.