City Commission Meetings - Regular Meeting

I am calling to order the Panama City Commission  meeting for February 10th. We're going to start   out with an opening prayer by Dr. Williams,  pastor, St. John's Missionary Baptist Church   followed by the pledge of allegiance led  by Commissioner Brian Granger. Please rise. Let's pray together. God of our weary years, God of our silent tears,  God who has brought us thus far on the way,   God who has by thy might led us into the light,  keep us forever in your path. We pray it is again   in your wonderful name that we have come into this  place and this space that we may be able to lord   and magnify you all the more. We are here to do  the biddings of your business within our city and   we ask that you would cover us and keep us and  manifest your protective power all around us.   bless our commission, our mayor, and all of those  that make city work happen. And then bless God   our entire area and our entire region, even our  entire nation that you might be able to get the   glory in the midst of all things. And there may  not be a mistake in knowing that you are God and   God alone. Manifest yourself now in this place  and have your way. be glorified in the heavens,   be glorified in the earth, and be glorified  in each and every one of us, your temples for   worship and adoration unto you. It is in the  mighty and the majestic and the marvelous,   miraculous name of your son Jesus, that we  do declare these things and we are covered  

by your will. And all the people said,  "Amen." Amen. Please join me in the pledge   of allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of  the United States of America and to the republic   for which it stands. One nation under God,  indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please call the role. Mayor Branch,  present. Commissioner Granger,   present. Commissioner Street, here. Commissioner  Hughes here. Commissioner Lucas, present. Mary,   you have quorum. You've received the meeting  minutes from January 27th. Do you have a motion   to approve? Motion to approve. Do have a second.  Second. Any discussion? Please call the role.   Commissioner Granger, yes. Commissioner Street,  yes. Commissioner Hughes, yes. Commissioner Lucas,   yes. Mayor Branch, yes. Motion passes  5-0. Is there any additions, deletions,   or modifications? Yes, Mr. Mayor. Staff has two.  Uh we would like to add uh a discussion on the   St. Andrews Soccer Club and Oak Grove Field. You  all remember this came up Saturday morning at the   town hall. So that would follow 12F. And then  additionally, we would like to relocate item   12 C regarding the budget amendment resolution for  city marina partners and then also item 12E report   on the design of the infrastructure needs for the  downtown marina with a phasing approach to follow   that new addition for the San Andrew soccer  club so that the two items for the downtown   marina would come at the end of this morning's  agenda. That is all from staff. Mr. Mayor,   I have um one one addition. Um I'd like to add the  uh city clerk's retirement announcement following  

um audience participation. That would  be a new 8 or 7 A. You just put 7A. I   think that's fine. Um I have one as well. So I'm  writing all this down so I can make the motion. Did you say something, sir? Yep. We're writing.  We're writing. Just give me a minute. While while   Commissioner Granger's writing, Mayor, I'd like to  mention this doesn't affect the agenda, but I did   have an item under the downtown marina, which I  would ask for an opportunity to take that back um   and work on. It had to do with the reimbursement  cost table 12 C. Well, it's not the entire thing.   In other words, 12c has a lot of stuff in there  and one little thing is the letter from me. I'm   just and I'm happy to talk about it at the time.  Okay. You'll need 12, but I won't be asking for   action today. Gotcha. That's it. Thank you. That's  all. Do you need me to include that? No. Okay. All   right. So, I motion. Anybody else have anything  else? Let people vote. All right. I'd like to   motion that uh 12F uh be added for a discussion on  St. Andrew Soccer Club and that 12 Charlie and 12   Echo move to after 12F and that uh we table uh 10  alpha to March the first meeting in March and that   we add 7 alpha uh the the clerk's resignation.  It's a lot of changes. Do I have a second? Second.   Any discussion? Please call the role. Commissioner  Granger. Yes. Yes. Commissioner Street. Yes.   Commissioner Hughes. Yes. Commissioner Lucas. Yes.  Mayor Branch. Yes. Motion passes. 5-0. February is  

all about connection and we want you to be in  the know. Sign up for city communications and   get updates straight to your inbox or phone. From  our monthly newsletter to real-time alerts like   water service, we'll keep you close to the  heart of the community. Scan the QR code or   visit panalcity.gov gov to sign up today because  staying informed is something to love. All city   offices will be closed on Monday, February 16th  in observance of President's Day. There will be   no change to the garbage collection schedule. The  MLK Junior Recreation Center will have special   holiday hours on President's Day and will be open  from 10:00 a.m. to 400 p.m. Panama City's Charter   Review Advisory Board is actively engaged in a  comprehensive review of the city charter. Their   next review meeting is Thursday, February 19th at  12 noon in room 236 at city hall. And the Panama   City Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee has  gathered community input regarding parks under   considerations for potential consolidation. For  more information on both, please visit the city's   website at panama city.gov. Black Love Art and  Music of Panama City will host its Black History   through Music Showcase on Thursday, February  19th at 100 p.m. in the City Hall Rotunda. The   event will celebrate Black History through  Music featuring local vocalists, musicians,   and spoken word artist. Save the date for  the annual CRA social set for Thursday,   February 19th from 5:30 to 7:00 p.m. in the  rotunda of city hall. Panama City CRA socials   are informal community gatherings where residents  can meet the community redevelopment agency team,   learn about projects and priorities, and share  feedback to help guide future improvements across   the city's redevelopment districts. and the  Incremental Development Alliance in partnership  

with the Panama City Community Redevelopment  Agency will host a small developer boot camp   beginning the end of this month on February 26th.  This five-week intensive training program will   take place at city hall and is designed to  equip local entrepreneurs with the practical   skills needed to develop small-cale projects  that strengthen our Panama City neighborhoods.   Register today by our visiting our website or  simply scan the QR code here on the screen.   Early bird registration is available through  February 11th, which is tomorrow, with regular   registration continuing through February the  23rd. That's all the announcements, Mr. Mayor. 6A. Uh, you know what? I don't have 6A. That is  a problem. My apologize. Item six is not in   my binder. Hang tight one sec. I'll be happy to  take it. All right. Go ahead, sir. I don't know   where it went. Sorry. 6A uh excuse me. 6A is a  public hearing and this is a draft that's really   for discussion purposes and to allow it to be  available for any public input. It was placed   as a a public hearing and uh Natalie Mcuway who is  our chief assistant city attorney is going to come   and walk us through this particular ordinance  but it's a proposed proposal for discussion   uh amendment to chapter 12 adding an article  as to railroad ride ofway vegetation drainage   and nuisance maintenance. Miss McWain. Thank  you. Natalie Mwain with Berg Blue Law Firm. On   behalf of the city here, um just to present to you  that this is of course um just a first reading for   discussion. The rideway um maintenance ordinance  is here to help alleviate the cost incurred by the  

city and maintaining these um rightaways along the  railroad. um inherently it's been difficult to get   in touch with anyone from the railroad um company  to come and cut their own rights aways. Currently,   the city has a code that requires any property  within the city of Panama City to maintain their   nuisances and specifically abate nuisances where  overgrowth is in excess of 1 foot in height.   In this um sense, this this is a a unique  ordinance that not only requires the abatement   of this overgrowth, but what it is set up to do is  to allow the city to go and maintain that nuisance   after providing 30 days notice. The city does not  have to provide 30-day notice on all nuisances.   This one would require a 30-day notice. And after  that 30-day notice, if the railroad company who is   um charged with maintaining their rightway  does not come and clean their rideway,   the city can invoice the um railroad for  that cost. And if that cost is not paid,   so basically it's a code enforcement lean. If  that cost is not paid, it would then go on the   nuisance assessment role that the city  adopts every year and um placed on any   property that um the railroad owns within the  city as a cost of nuisance assessment. Okay,   there that's just a general overview of the  ordinance and of course this is a public hearing   but would be available to answer any questions.  Thank you. Yes, sir. And I'm happy to answer any   questions. Why is it that we have to specifically  single out the railroad when there's other people   across Panama City that are violating the same  thing? I don't know that we're specifically trying  

to just single them out. What we're trying to do  is make it an easier mechanism for the city to   um um receive costs for abatement. the city's  been maintaining the railroad and it's hard to,   you know, notice them and have them come to a code  enforcement hearing if we haven't been able to   really get in touch with them. Um, the city could  not do this ordinance and continue with what we've   been doing, but the goal is to just make it more  of a cost share on them. The railroad is already   required under the code of federal regulations  to maintain their rightway. But the city as a   municipality cannot enforce the code of federal  regulations. So we have to adopt our own um laws   in order to you know help us um enforce those  codes. Thank you. So this isn't uh this is not   us agreeing to for Jonathan to go spend a bunch  of money maintaining more rideways. This just   gives us permission if we need to, we can clean  something up and then bill them for it later. Yes,   in a sense. Yeah. And if if I can draw the  attention to why this is incredibly important,   um a significant portion of the city drains  through the districts that are adjacent to   um what is railroad uh rightway. And so, and  historically um I was actually sharing with   Devin yesterday. I was able to pull up some  minutes um from previous commissions. This   has been an issue since the '60s and um and it  wasn't until uh change of ownership that happened   um in I don't know when it was that Jennese  and Wyoming actually purchased the the railroad   property. There used to be staff on the railroad.  As a matter of fact, I think Mike um Mike Jones   was the person that worked for Earl Duran cutting  the railroad right away. And so the city has kind  

of gotten into this spot where we're maintaining  private property because it does belong to private   property. But if that private property is not  maintained, um neighborhoods flood. And so this is   u this is not just a simple, you know, hey, what  makes a different there's a significant difference   here than in other things cuz it puts people and  property at risk. Um and there are certain there   are certain parts of this which are defined in  this ordinance that are federally regulated and   then there's certain parts that fall underneath  the jurisdiction of the city. And so we've   clearly defined what that is. um that is both  federally enforced and what is um city enforced. Any other questions? This is a public hearing.  If you wish to speak about this item, please   come forward. Please state your name and address  for the record and uh you have three minutes. Derek Thomas, 1100 West 10th Street. Um, this  property is the same property that I've been   complaining about for years that the city has had  the right to develop it as a public right ofway,   a public path that connects the downtown  with the rest of the city. We have had the   right as a city to develop that and put it to  use for the people that live here. And that's   been ina in place for more than 10 years.  City has chosen not to take that option and   not to develop it and not to put it to use  for the city and the people that live here.   So for us to say now that we've got the right to  develop it and use it to benefit the whole city,   we can put just a pathway on top of where the  railroad track used to be and a couple of benches   or some lights and that's it. Imagine how much  cheaper it would be to do that than to take some   other piece of land and try to like take rip up  all the trees on Beach Drive and turn it into a   path. This could be an actual usable path that  would be safe where people could ride a bike  

without having to deal with getting run over by  cars. This could be a very useful and valuable   part to this city, but it's not being developed  that way. And you sit on and do nothing and now   you say, "Oh, well, we want you to pay to mow the  grass and take care of the stuff that 10 years ago   we could have turned into a usable path for the  city and the people that live here." I had to go.   If you're talking about the public rideway, I  had to go on 98 east down to the other side of   the city. There's palms that push people out  into the into the road. There's nothing but a   4ft sidewalk and a road. And the palm frrons are  so heavily grown into the sidewalk that it makes   you go around them and almost into the road. And  I don't believe that people that use that sidewalk   were bringing bags full of pebbles and rocks and  scattering it all over the sidewalk. There's no   longer any businesses there. So, it's dark at  night. It's dangerous. It hasn't been cleaned up   in years. And they all the palms and everything on  the side of it that force people out near the road   is dangerous. I think you should consider that.  And I I don't know that in less than a minute I   can get into the drainage that the city has not  taken care of. So, to say for somebody else that   they have to take care of their drainage because  it's inconveniencing the rest of the city. Ah,   you know, that's that is something that is uh  really disturbing to hear you say when you you   talk about that, but you don't talk about all the  other stuff that the city owns that the city's not   maintaining and and could be making the drainage  so much better. Across the street from us,   there's highdensity housing and there's a drainage  ditch that used to be there and instead of fixing   that up while they were taking care of the  housing, they just completely ignored it and   let it overgrow. That's for That's doing the same  thing that the railroad track would be doing to  

you've ignored that. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone  else on item 6A? So, just for clarification,   we're talking about an active railroad. We're  not going to rip up any tracks. I think it'd   be good to put out a rails to trail update  just where we're at with the rails to trail   progress. I don't have an update on that. That's  totally separate. Yeah, but that's kind of what   he was alluding to as a rails to trails project.  Anyone else on item 6A? Seeing no more comments,   closing 6A. This is the first reading. Okay. First  reading of ordinance 3299, an ordinance of the   city of Panama City, Florida, amending chapter 12  to require maintenance of railroad rights of way   um by railroad owners and operators outside of  the operational tract and ballast zone area,   providing for vegetation, drainage, and nuisance  control outside of the immediate ballast area and   providing for severability clause, repealer  provision, cotification, and an effective   We are in audience participation. If you'd like  to speak about any of the remaining agenda items,   please come forward. Give us your name and  address and also let us know which agenda   item you're speaking about today.  Anything on the remaining agenda. And Mr. Mayor, if anybody came in late, as  a reminder, we did add the St. Andrew Soccer   Club and uh Oakrove Field. So, if anybody wants  to speak for that, that has been added to the   agenda today. Thank you. Yes, sir. Good morning,  everybody. My name is David Netisil. I live at 145   Lake Mariel Shores. I am here to speak on agenda  8E. Um, thank you very much for this being on the   agenda. I want to a special thank you to to the  mayor, to Commissioner Street, and to city manager   Hayes. You all kind of helped push this through  a little bit to at least get it on the agenda.  

We appreciate it. Um, so I'm here on behalf of the  founder and owner of 3A uh distilling company. Um,   Brian Raven unfortunately had previous travel  plans and wasn't able to make it. So, I'm here   to to try and help out. So, it's on the agenda and  I read the agenda and it it basically states that   um the staff recommends the approval. Uh and this  is for us to be able to sell cork um liquor at the   Saint uh the Market of St. Andrews Farmers Market.  One thing that I did not notice on the request   form is the fact that um specifically something  that's very important is for us to be able to do   tastings. Now on the statute, the Florida statute  565-17 states that tastings are uh allowed at   farmers market liquor sales, but it's not on  the form. So, I just wanted to make sure before   we go any further that everybody understands that  there would be tastings. Now, when I say tastings   to define that, um, we're talking about samples  of 116th of an ounce. So, if you think about a   standard cocktail would have 1 ounce of liquor.  These tastings would be 116th of an ounce with a   maximum of two per person. Period. Um, Brian Rabin  is very intent on making sure that everything's   done above board, which again was one of the  reasons that I'm here. We just want to make sure   that everybody understands that even though it  wasn't listed on there, we were I guess assuming   that we're kind of following the statute, but we  want to make sure that everybody understands that  

there would be tastings of 116th maximum two.  1/16th of an ounce maximum two. Um, but I just   want to make sure that everybody understood that  before we before we go any further. Mr. Zimmerman,   does that change anything related to legalities of  the park or selling of alcohol versus tasting of   alcohol versus, you know? Yeah, we weren't aware  of the tastings. Okay. Um, and I don't know if it   was reflected in the application. So, we would  just request that we go back and look at this   issue. You know, I think we have plenty of time  to bring it back to the commission. Is that what   Yes. So, ju just so everybody understands, um,  38 Distilling Company does carry a $1 million,   uh, certificate of liability insurance.  The certificate holder could be whomever,   city of Panama City, could be the market of  St. Andrews, whatever the whoever we need   to put on there would be on there for the sit  certificate holder for indemnification. Okay.   So, so when we come to that, I think it would  be appropriate to pull that off, table it, and   let us bring it back. Yeah, we just wanted Yeah,  we want to make sure that you we didn't want any   surprises here. We appreciate you coming. So, in  your other areas of farmers markets, are they on   uh city? Are they on government properties or  private properties? Either. It is a certificate   of liability insurance for as as far as where  you serve your where you where you interact with   farmers markets and other locations. Are they on  private sites or are they on government? It's it's   actually a combination of both. Commissioner.  Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Okay. Thank you all   very much. Thank you. Anyone else about any  other agenda item today? Please come forward. Is this just the public? Yes, ma'am. Come on  down. Just let us know your name and address   and which agenda item you're speaking on today.  I'm sorry. Just your name and address for the  

role and also the agenda item you're speaking  on today. Okay. My name is Lita Ash. My address   is 2608 Broadmore Drive, Columbus, Georgia. Um  here in Columbus, I mean here in Panama City,   um San Andrea area. Perfect. And which agenda  item? I'm sorry. Which agenda item you speaking   on? Well, I just want to talk about my still  standing initiative and um what what was the   issue? It's still standing initiative. I have  an event that's coming here. Yeah. On February   21st and I just wanted to kind of discuss that. We  only discuss agenda items on the agenda today. Oh,   it has to be agenda. So, is Jared here to give her  a Can we get her a card so she can get who? Jar   Jar. Oh, no. He's not here today. But if it's an  event, uh Keith in the back, raise your hand, sir.   If you want to get He's our parks, culture, and  recreation department. Okay. Director. Thank you.   All righty. It's really not an event. It's more  like an initiative um that I have coming. But when   do you discuss those events here in the area that  we discuss with staff and bring them to the I mean   not events but initiatives. Who would you discuss  it with? Do you Does the council or commissioner   accept those types of um I I'd honestly present  to staff and they would bring it and put it on the   agenda for us to vote on. So you you would talk to  talk to Keith. Keith, raise your hand back here.   The town. What about the town hall? Or the town  halls? Yeah, the town halls on Saturdays as well.   Town halls on when? Saturdays. Every Saturday? No,  first Saturday. First Saturday. First Saturdays.   Okay. Awesome. I'll come back. Yeah. Just  make sure Keith get her make sure you get her   card and she'll have All righty. Do you all as um  commissioners have personal emails or city emails   that you can receive outside and we'll set up  meetings with you as well. Okay. Awesome. I'll do   it that way as well. Thank you, Keith. if you'll  if you'll share our our email contacts um with   her as well. I was talking he's going to share our  email contacts with you as well. Thank you. Thank  

you for coming and thank you for everything that  you Yes, ma'am. Anyone else agenda items today? Yes, ma'am. Good morning. Good morning. Michelle Bryant, 409 East 9th Street. have about  five things, so I'm gonna talk fast as I can. Um,   so first thing, uh, Jonathan, I wasn't here, but  I was watching. When they brought up our event,   you didn't mention it when it came to community  events. Uh, oh, the Yeah, it was up there,   but you didn't mention it. Well, I read the  script, but I apologize. It's okay, hun. Lunch   on you. Second thing, event was mentioned, and he  he read it. Yeah, he Yeah, I didn't hear it. Um,   so someone didn't hear me speaking. Wow. I've  never been I was on the lines on the phone. So,   so second, my question is regarding the MLK  rate sheet that is being noted for approval   on today's agenda. My question is with the  suggestions that you receive from the NAACP,   emails that you may have received from  people such as myself and other individuals,   why wasn't this brought to the table back  to the community for a vote so that you   could get the consensus of the community  on which direction they would like to go?   The third question is in regards to this  resolution regarding the water bill and the   fact that if um someone has six time the account  holders bill then there could be an investigation   into um foregoing that bill. Looking at some other  states and other municipalities three times is the   normal rate. So what was the deciding factor  to make it six times? Fourth the staff report.   Can we get specific data on this report? For  example, on the CRA line, it says two programs,   but what are those two programs? If we could get  that extended uh pivot point where we could see  

specifically what is being referenced. And then  last, I didn't hear about the soccer club being   added to the agenda. I was driving and trying not  to crash. Um why are we still talking about the   soccer club when the community made it very clear  that that wasn't something they were interested   in? So hopefully we can get that information  and get the reason why we are still having those   conversations today. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone  else? Yes, ma'am. Good morning. Good morning. Brenda Lewis Williams, 2748 Oamic Drive, 32401.  Miss, can my time stop for a minute, please? Thank you, Jan. I'm sorry to hear that you  resigned. I'm truly sorry. That just really   hurts my heart. And I just need to say  that because as a city clerk treasurer,   you have done an excellent job per accounting  practices, not anything else. I took enough   accounting to know that that's what you did. Okay.  It's a it's a happy occasion. I'm retiring. That's   fine. But I'm sorry to hear you're going. Okay.  Thank you. Let's start the time. Yes, ma'am. We're   ready. Excuse me. We're ready for you. Yes,  ma'am. Not really. But anyway, little bit of   levity. How's everybody this morning? Uh, as far  as the water bills are concerned, briefly put, did   we not discuss this last year and Jan came up with  a solution? So, why are we bringing it back? Seems   like that's a frivolous waste of time. Uh uh you  have not answered my question in reference to non   non-aggenda items per the statute. Why cannot we  why can we not get answers during the commission  

meeting? Because we're not getting them anywhere  else period. Uh non um St. Andrew Soccer Club. We   have discussed this ad nauseium and I'm like with  Michelle. Why is it back on the agenda? I watched   the town hall meeting. 8:00 in the morning is too  early for me. I only make 8:00 for city commission   meetings. But why are we still discussing this?  It seems that there is a pull from inside as   well as outside to make sure that this club gets  this piece of property. Now throughout history, historically, black property has been  confiscated and commonandeered. That is   an historical site. You have your rules.  Follow them. Don't bend them to suit one   group of people. Follow the rules that you  have put in place. I I don't understand why   we continue to discuss this. And I understand  the letter was put out that they could go   anywhere else in the city county to get  a field and there's an abundance of them. They have no business commandeering that field.  That field belongs to the community. It should   stay as a community entity per parks per  the city ordinance when Don't go there,   Brenda. Anyway, why are we still discussing this?  I don't care what their ration. We shouldn't be   discussing this. You all said no at one point  in time. Now you're coming back and you're   going to discuss it again to appease a select  group of folks. Uh-uh. That doesn't even make  

sense. You can't make sense out of nonsense,  folks. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, ma'am.   Good morning, Patty. Sunday, 11:15, uh, Fairland.  Um, on the water policy, I'm uh, representing   myself and my husband, um, who is a utilities  engineer, and he thought it was fabulous. Um,   do you remember, I think Pat Sebastian is the one  that started this dialogue. When that happened,   she called me and and Rick sat down with her and  went over her water bills and explained all the   things that it might be. Um, and so I showed it  to him last night and other places that we have   lived and other places that he works, there  are policies like this and he wanted to offer   his congratulations on such a good policy and  making it be in print. And he told me one time,   Jan, that when he monitors them, he gets a flag  at three times, right? And that's when you start   watching it. But because of the the cyclical  nature of water and leaks that he agreed that   six time was when you would take action because  at three times you start looking at it because of   different seasonal things. So I'm here to  offer my congratulations. It took y'all a   long time because it's a difficult issue. So  thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir. Good morning. Hi, I'm Willie Morris. uh address  3906 Alva Thomas Road, Panama City. Um I'm here   on the 12A consideration as well for the approval  of the membership and rental fee schedule for the   Martin Luther King Junior Rec Center. In addition  to that, when you guys begin to get into the  

um the agreement or the approved um numbering that  is um been kind of cons, you know, consolidated or   approved by the community. Um there are leaders  in the community that have expertise in certain   things in regards to those numbers. So, um,  I've spoken with several of the commissioners   in regards to my input and expertise in that, but  one of the things I wanted to offer or talk about,   um, to alert the public on is to how we can  diversify the offerings and a strategy to   increase the revenue of the Martin Luther King  uh, Junior facility and to offset some of the   operating and maintenance costs. Um currently the  offering that I want to offer is um allowing youth   and adult basketball tournaments to be facilitated  there. Um if you don't know tournament hosting is   a $40 billion industry and the potential revenue  can range from a thousand to um you know thousand   to tens of thousands for local and weekend events.  But then on the higher tier of it can range from   30 to 60,000 for largecale multi-day regional  tournaments. So that's kind of my expertise. I've   uh am a community leader, advocate, uh coach,  pastor, teacher, educator, business owner,   you name it. Those are the tiers that I operate  in to re, you know, build community impact and   bring forth revenue streams for this area. Um so  I would love to see what you guys have to say. I   will sit down with any of you again to discuss  the details of the higher ranges also including  

u specialized events such as gallas, balls  in the utilized open space of the gym rather   than just court usage. But there are so many  other use cases for this facility that have not   been discussed and probably didn't need to be  discussed due to not having a venue of it. Um,   typical tournaments that we host here utilizes  all of Bay County school gyms. So, as you can see,   that's at a rate of hourly rate. Multiply that  times the amount of teams, it adds up. By having   it at one place, utilizing it during the non-  peak hours of the the U facility will garner   a lot more revenue. So, that's something to  consider. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir. Walter P. Henry, 614 Maple Avenue, Panama City.  Uh, I like to I like a question to be answered   by the commissioners, by the city. I don't know  what y'all pay for water bills for the county.   And I don't know why customers bills get so  high that they cannot afford to pay them.   Like I said on Saturday, y'all can read these  meters at every house. if they're leaking,   if they started running. And y'all got to  let these peoples know that your water bill,   you got a leak. Um, city buys water from the  county. City get a bill like I hope you might  

not from the county. If you hold our water  bill that the customs that city customers pay   every month is y'all be higher than what y'all  receiving from us? Probably. Yes. We let our   line leaks too long. I've been looking at a line  for a couple week months. Nobody never fixed it.   still leaking. I walk by a house every morning,  a leak inside the house. I don't know if it's me   to leak it or what. Folks probably refuse to even  call and complain because they do not get answer   then the next thing they don't get the service  that they deserves. So, I need to start trying to   get everything else but get everything right. But  some things we try to put in that we don't already   have enough on our on our plates. And we're  trying to buy things that go cost the city more   money. Steady going to have to get more people to  operate. So y'all need to see about getting these   leaks fixed. Then your meter bill that the county  charge you will go down. Thank you. Yes, sir. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I'm  Gregory Docs, CP, PO Box 35894, Panama City 32412.  

Uh, I'd like to thank the different commissioners  and the mayor for the opportunity to meet with   them and Commissioner Street, we got your message  late and we know that you would normally meet with   us on on any issue. So, you know, you we excuse  you because you are always there for us. Uh, we   presented three proposals. one was uh no fees uh  and Miss Sundy, she was a economic de development   director, I believe was her title for the city  of Panama City. She came up with some grants and   stuff to supplement that. The second proposal  was uh no fee for Panama City residents only.   And then the third proposal, since it seems  like the city was leaning towards uh fees,   we presented a fee proposal with two key words  that the city seems hesitant to put in there.   The two words are sliding scale. Uh and I know Mr.  Jonathan expressed some uh concern about his staff   being overwhelmed for doing the verification  process if I understood you correctly.   So, but I do want to say that will be an initial  surge because once you know the initial surges   over then it'll you know trinkle here and  there and also someone at the rec center   could be trained to do that and we want that  with one person because we're talking about   a lot of information uh personal information  and we also did suggestions about they can use   uh if they have SSI benefits if they have EBT  benefits, different things like that. And the   city was had gotten some sponsorships and uh and  we say those could supplement where the sliding  

scale doesn't work. Uh but by leaving off those  two key words, sliding scale, what happens when   there are no more sponsorship dollars? Because a  lot of companies start out with good intentions.   uh the economics hit a rough turn and then they  have to pull out. So we have to look at it for   the long run. We have to uh get it right the  first time and not saying this commission but   our history with previous commissions are if it's  not in writing initially it won't be it won't be   uh enforced. So, I want to make sure that those  keywords are in there, sliding scale, and that way   there will be no confusion where people will think  we have to pay $0 or $100 or whatever that is,   but sliding scale is the keywords. Thank  you. Yes, sir. Thank you. Anyone else? Good morning. Good morning, mayor and  commissioners. Glad to be here this   morning. Rufuswood, 1911 East 10th Street. I  thank all of you know it is my joy and honor   to serve as the president for the Bay County  branch NAACP. As I was sitting there thinking,   I was thinking about one of my mentors, the late  Reverend PL Glover as young clergy. He used to   to work with us and he taught us that it's very  very important uh working with other people. He   used to brag about his church. He said all of the  members of New Beth Missionary Baptist Church all   of them are working. He said what do you mean?  He said some are working with me and some are   working against me. Now I said that to say that  I'm so glad that in this community we endeavor to   work with the government. I think it's important  for government and community to work together. I  

know we don't always agree on everything. Uh but  I think it's so important that we work together.   So I that's what we endeavor to do. So I want to  express my profound gratitude uh to Commissioner   Lucas as well as to the mayor and all of the  commissioners that we had an opportunity to talk   with. And as Mr. Dossi said uh we were not able to  meet with Commissioner Street, but he did call. So   we do appreciate that. Uh we did come together and  I thought it was important that the community come   together. We had a community meeting. In fact, we  had a couple of community meetings and it was open   to the public. No, the Bay County branch does  not speak for everybody in the community, but I   thought it was important to bring the community  together because when uh Commissioner Lucas   and uh Brother Jonathan held the meeting over at  Glenwood Community Center, what I heard was a lot   of fussing and uh fuming, crying and complaining.  And I guess people had the right to do that.   uh sometime we need to vent but I thought it was  important that we get together and put something   uh to present to the commissioners that that was  the purpose of the meeting. We came together as   already been for stated we came up with three  proposals. The people sat around the tables and   worked. They was brainstorming. So what you have  came from the community. I didn't sit down and put   it together. The people in the community did that.  So I hope that you will give consideration to what   uh has been shared with you. And again, thank you  so very very much uh for meeting with us. Those   of you that took time to meet with us, again,  we want to work with you as opposed to working   against you. Helen Keller say, "We can do so  much together. Uh we can do so little apart. So,   we want to continue to work with you." Thank  you so very much. Thank you. Come on down,   Mr. Marshall. He's been He's been hopping up every  time waiting for someone else to go. Yes, sir. Veral Marshall, 1611 Lincoln Avenue, Panama  City, Florida. Uh Jonathan, I wish uh Derrick  

was here cuz he opened up a point uh here to  talk about the soccer club. Uh I don't know   what item number that is. I understand that they  want to reduce or no fee for a nonprofit. They're   locked in for two weeks and after that it's up  in question. Which item number was that? We got   it was added. Okay. One in October they said  they had $40,000 to resaw that. 4 months later   they want to reduce fee. Um I was okay with them  renting it. I think anybody ought to be able to   rent it. It's a city park. But if they want it for  a reduced or a no fee because they're nonprofit, they're collecting a lot of money.  $400, $800. Okay. If they don't want   to pay for it at the end of the two  weeks, uh Jared asked for a check,   I got one. I'll rent it for the community for  the next three weeks. Here you go. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Good morning. Good morning. Rachel  Boswell, 119 Cottonwood Circle Linhaven, but   representing St. Andrew Soccer Club, operating at  1726 Frankfurt of Panama City. Um, we don't have   $40,000. The proposal that we set was yes, we  are going to offer $40,000. That does not mean   we have it in the bank that we were going to  fund raise. We were going to get a loan. Um,   our president was going to invest his own money.  So, no, we do not have $40,000. We are looking   to utilize Oakrove Field at Marbert Mary Kane  Park for the spring season because it has been  

determined with Keith Merrell, the parks and recck  manager, um, that there's not a safe space for   soccer to play in Panama City currently. As we  discussed at the town hall meeting on Saturday,   Oak Grow Field is the only current field for  this season that we can utilize safely without   worry for injury for the children that we are  servicing of Panama City. They are coming from   your local community from W 2, from Ward 1, from  W 3, from W 4. The majority of our children, we want the field two nights a week. We would like  to utilize it two nights a week. That's what we're   asking for for the spring season, which would  run for the rest of February to May. We never   said we wouldn't pay, but we are asking that  the fee either be reduced or waved, as is the   precedent that has been set for other nonprofit  organizations within the city of Panama. That is   a precedent that has already been set and you as  the commission are the ones that can wave that   fee and it has been done before. We are asking  that because we have a fee to pay. We have a fee   to play. You're right. But so does every other  sport. Football has a fee to play. Cheerleading   has a fee to play. Baseball has a fee to play.  It doesn't mean that we're rich. We have coaches   that we are paying. These are legitimate coaches  that have MLS coaching experience, plus coaching   overseas experience. So, we're paying them to  instruct the children how to properly play soccer,   but also to grow and challenge themselves. We just  want to play soccer. We hope that the city can   continue to work with us and create a long-term  plan and we will happily move to Frank Nelson   Park if we can get the field up to safety for the  children. I I as a mom would not let my kids go   play soccer right there after walking that field.  I couldn't do it. I couldn't risk their future   because they could be seriously injured. I also  know that you have all received two emails from   Jillian Goldhagen and Kelly Fukua this morning  that they would like to be read for the record  

because they unfortunately couldn't make it this  morning. Um, and I'm happy to answer any questions   that you may have. I I we just want to play  soccer if that's all we're asking. We're asking   two nights a week through May. That's it. And then  if you can provide us a different field, if we can   work together to get Frank Nelson up to park, we  will move from Oakrove. And we don't want to fight   with the community. We We were playing with kids  this weekend actually from the local community   because the field was locked and they jumped the  fence to go play soccer themselves. And so we   went out and were playing with them and chatting  with them as well. So, the kids of the community   do want to play soccer because they were there  this weekend. We saw them. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you. Good morning. James Lee, 1620 Fountain Avenue, Panama City 32405  here because of the soccer St. Andrews soccer club   situation. First of all, I represent this which  is an acronym for the Hill Improvement Society   and we were formed to look out for the benefits  of the Hill. Not that we don't have an excellent   commissioner and Miss Lucas, she is an excellent  commissioner, but she represents a large area. We   just represent the Hill. We have no animosity  against St. Andrews soccer club. So why do we   come out in opposition to the fact that they want  a priority agreement and that they want a no fee  

um because they are nonprofit club first of all  and I gave uh copies of this to the commissioners.   The key difference is is that St. St. Andrew  Soccer Club is that it is a club and this is just   information that I downloaded from online with a  with fees of up to $800, $850 uh per members. Um,   and one of the things that's included in that is  the indoor training at the St. Andrews Soccer Lab.   One of the things and and I think this is the  main reason that they want this field is because   it's next door to the St. Andrew Soccer Lab. St.  Andrew Soccer Club is that it is a club with a   501c7 designation. Not a 501c3, but a 501c7.  Meaning that it is a club with members. They   do not represent the Hill community. I dare say  that there is not a member of the Hill community   that is a member of the St. Andrew Soccer Club.  I asked my neighbor the other day why didn't he   go out because he likes to play soccer and  he's always at the field and he said because   his parents could not afford it. I understand that  you know they sometimes offer scholarships but he   said his parents could not afford it. They are not  representative of the Hill community. Therefore,   we urge the com the commission to not adopt a  priority schedule for St. Andrew Soccer Club,   nor a no fee or a reduced fee schedule.  This field, the Robert and Mary Kane Park,   is a historic field. It has historical  designation. It has been and it was given  

to the Hill community because there was no area  for them to use. They would have to go across 98   to go to Oakland Terrace Field. So, the field  was given to the community. We would like for   it to stay a part of the community. Thank  you for your time. Thank you. Anyone else? Good morning. Morning y'all. Uh Carter D  2262 Panama City uh a um I'm here talking   in regards to St. Andrews soccer club and in  all honesty I have one simple thing to share   with you all. I spoke with the president Cameron  um every day in the last week. We actually had   a conversation last week about scholarship  specifically. I got word from the president   that five of our players are on full complete  scholarship. Cameron is more than willing to   work with any family in the area in regards to  making it work because soccer is the point of   this. The point of this nonprofit is not to  make money. The point is to spread soccer to   the community. And if the community would like  to reach out to Cameron, he would be more than   happy to work with them. Thank you. Anyone  else related to the agenda items for today? Yes, sir. Derek Thomas, 1100 West 10th Street on  11A, the St. Andrews uh bulkheads. I think it's   uh just very interesting again that the only  company to bid for the marina was the Gormans.   is at 12 million and the city put up 12.9  million in exchange for 2% of the revenue. Jan,   I don't know how you do it. You did a great job  considering the situation you put in. I think you  

did a very good job and I do not blame you at all  for retiring. I know when I'm finished speaking,   I'm leaving. I'll check back online to find out  what happens, but um yeah, I'm not sure that   anything I say would make any difference on the  end of the meeting since you changed it around the   12 e 12 whatever for the uh the downtown. I don't  know why you went through all the process of of uh   having this big thing for the public. You got the  St. Joe to come up with five different plans and   you all voted on them. and specifically G dock,  the part where you come in and there used to be a   long dock of uninterrupted space. So anybody in a  large boat could pull up. It didn't matter how big   your boat was. You didn't need a specific size. It  was very easy to come in and out. That's the way   it was before and it made sense. And now these  plans that you're showing to the public aren't   that. And it was what you voted on. So why do we  even bother coming up here and talking to these   meetings if if the decision is already made if by  the local groups and organizations or something   and the public isn't even allowed to participate  or know where their tax money is going. How does   that how is that right? I mean, and then the other  the the dock, it says on the picture needed dock   from sea break, the part where there used to  be two sea brakes and the boats would come in,   go out one side and come in the other side and  there was less traffic problems. And now you've   made it all one thing, which might be great if  it's a protected storm issue, but why does this   say needed? That was a decision somebody made. It  wasn't anything that you needed. you already had   something there and if you' taken FEMA's money  they would have put it back the way it was which   went two C do two C breaks that I mean this whole  thing is going to be millions of dollars where's   the money going to come for that now when the  when the decision was made October 24th 19   uh 2024 to take money from the parks take money  from the marina and put it in Martin Luther King  

I think that since this is Black History Month  that's a that's a really appropriate way to spend   the money where there's two sets doors, one for  the black people that just a plain metal door and   a big fancy door for the white people and black  people had to knock and go up to the to the second   floor. That's how it was originally built, right?  So, talking about the Martin Theater. The Martin   Theater. Yeah. And now it's it's everybody that  lives here, we pay money. We pay money for taxes   to be used for the city and then find out that  the decisions have already been made and we're   just here to pay you money and be treated like  unloved cattle. I don't appreciate it. Thank you. Good morning. You can talk even though you have  a brother jack. It's okay. Go. Good morning   everybody. Robert Kane 1606 Lincoln Avenue  on uh the Robert and Mary Kane Oak Park. Um   that park has been with my family. You know,  y'all dedicated and I thank y'all for that.   But why can't uh they use their own facility?  Uh we don't have any problem they're using it,   but they have an indoor facility and uh we want  to know what's going on with that. And we just   want the our children to be able to use the park  where no one can really supersede no one because   we all are equal and I think our children need it  the most. Uh that park has been nonusable for a   while and we just want the children to be able to  play and we have cookouts and community events and   church events, but we need to come to a solution,  a reasonable solution about my mom and dad's part.   And that's all. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you. Anyone else?

Anyone else for any other agenda items for  today? Okay, closing public comments. We   are in the consent agenda. Do I have a motion  to accept the There was one item item 7A. Oh,   7A. That's right. I missed that one. That's Jan's  letter. Yeah. I'd like to I'd like to thank Jan uh   for willingness to hold a healthy transition. I'm  excited for you and your farm to come, but you've   still got a little bit more work to do. So, we're  still going to use and abuse you for a little   while longer. So, a lot of people don't realize um  so Brandy was a clerk when I first came in. Jane   came in not long after that. And for um for people  going through disasters, the first part definitely   the city manager job is the most difficult.  But after about year two, uh, the clerk's job   becomes the greatest challenge to navigate trying  to figure out how to ever do anything. So, I just,   um, I'd like us to honor her request for  resignation date on August 10th. So, I'd move   for us to accept the resignation of city clerk  effective August 10th, 2026, and for her to remain   in the expatio rule or advisory as she continues  her important work with the city's finances. I'd   further move to designate Brandy Waldron as the  interim city clerk effective immediately to ensure   continuity of operations and reflect the sensitive  nature of the vital role. I'd also request that   the city attorney and the clerk um to meet after  this meeting to determine if Jan needs any other   reassurances that her action does in fact honor  her contract and allows her to continue working   under the terms of her retirement date. I'll  second that. Any discussion? Yes. Uh would you   go through that again? Little slow. I just Yeah,  I just so happened to have it written down. So   um I move to accept the resignation date of  the city clerk effective August 10th, 2026,   which is the date that she provided us in  the letter and to have her remain in the ex  

officio or advisory role as she continues to to  do her important work with the city finances. I   further move to designate Brandy Walrren Waldrin  as the interim city clerk effective immediately to   ensure continuity of operations and reflect the  sensitive nature of this vital role. And I also   request that the city attorney and the city clerk  meet after this meeting to determine if Jan needs   any other reassurances that this action does in  fact honor her contract and allows her to continue   working under those terms until her resignation  date. So effectively it it it puts Brandy in the   clerk's position interimly interimly um while  we while Jan works to towards retirement and in   a supported role and then um we then can also go  out immediately to to start trying to find a new   clerk. Yeah, we can start that process whenever  we so see fit. But I would like Jan to be able to   fully finished up into um retirement so that  she can enjoy whatever cows or anything else   that she so desires to do. So what does remain  in advisory role mean that from now until August   10th she comes to work every day? Yeah, whatever  whatever whatever is needed. Ultimately, we've got   the biggest thing I think Jan's express is the um  getting started on the audit, finishing up those   processes. Um she allows us to get through,  you know, another budgetary process. Um so,   and it really part of the challenge that I know  and encounter, I don't want to, you know, speak   on behalf of of the team, but we've been without  a deputy clerk and so our deputy treasurer and so   that's led us to kind of have some backlog. So I  think this will provide enough margin to be able   to get through the things that need to and for us  to have, you know, interim. And Brandy served in  

this interim role before. So this is not anything  new. And she's not here to say no. Exactly. You   don't show up to me and you get extra jobs. It's  like the military. You take a leave time. So why   would we need an interim if we're keeping uh the  clerk in employment through August 10th? Well,   I continuity. Yeah, continuity. And I mean I I  think you know and I serve in a financial capacity   another role when I when I tenure my resignation  or whatever, you know, this is a very sensitive   position. So it allows us to have additional  oversight in that period of time as well.   So this is a pretty normal part of the process.  When should we put out um looking for somebody to   replace? I would not do it today. Don't do that.  I'm just asking in terms of your you're bringing   just to follow up with with what Commissioner Luke  is talking about. You're going to have two people.   One is interim. Obviously, Jan, thank you for your  service and she's moving on her way out somewhere   in there. We have to have somebody have come  in and I would imagine either Jan and or Brandy   um helping that transition. So, uh is that not  today, but is that sooner than later? I would   suggest you that that discussion be had at the  next meeting. Okay. Because that introduces even   more questions about it. Uh are we looking, you  know, how we with Jonathan when he was hired? Did   are we looking in that method? Are we going to go  out for a uh a professional company? Like there's   all kind of questions. Upcoming charter changes  could change the position too. Yeah, there's that   too. So, I mean, so yeah, I think that's a whole  another long conversation. Yes. That we don't have   today. Well, her leaving the charter changes  are not in the same time. We're going to have   to we're going to have to fill her position before  that because the charter changes don't come until  

um if if any don't come until the vote on the  ballot. I I agree. You play with the rules that   you have and when the rules change then you're and  you're just And Brandy is aware. I mean Brandy is   aware. I mean, she served in this role before. she  has no desire to be that permanently and so she is   there to help assist in the transitionary process  and make sure that we get through everything and   you know and in essence you know allow I mean  there's a lot of things to be done between now   and June 10th does this does this motion make  you feel good this is a good motion this makes   you feel like you have a path forward I serve at  the pleasure of the commission well uh it sounds   like that you're excited as excited as Jade can  be. Have you understanding that um employees   serve at the pleasure of the commission?  Have you Commissioner Street talked with   uh Randy Walton? Yes, I I was able to talk with  her yesterday just to just to make sure, hey,   you know, hey, if I brought forth this motion, are  you going to come back and reject it? Uh she would   not. She serves at the pledge of commission. She's  been our utility player in multiple situations.   um she did want me to express um her desire to not  stay in the position for a long term as well as   express her support for having Jan alongside her,  that was a very important part of the process. So,   in as much as the city clerk is one of the three  uh employees that this uh body hires directly and   uh this is our first time discussing this as  a body, uh I would respectfully like us to uh   one accept the uh the resignation uh sorrowfully  from our city clerk and um not move to appoint an  

interim until we've had the kinds of discussions  that we just said we need to have um and then   move forward perhaps in two weeks at the next  commission. Understood. I respectfully disagree. I wish Brandy was here to speak about I think  yes from my question is is Jan not going to work?   I mean she you going to show up and not work? I  mean, why why does never been through this? It's   a question. Why does she why do we have to bring  Brandy in now? Does Jan not know know how to be a   city clerk tomorrow when she's No, it it doesn't  have anything to do with the skill set. It has to   do with everything that comes with the chartered  powers that come with the position and ensuring   that there's oversight into the transition.  And so, but that that's going down right now.   She's offered her resignation with the date set.  that that that transition is not tomorrow. It's   not immediate. So, I think Commissioner Lucas's  concern or question is what would be mine is why   now versus two weeks. I don't even know why two  weeks. But I but Jan's going to work tomorrow just   like she going to go to work the next day like she  came today. I don't understand the difference in   this letter today versus tomorrow. What if that  changes for us or for the citizen? Um I don't   think you're going to start stealing tomorrow.  I'll I'll give you I'll give you a couple I'll   give you a couple examples immediately. Therefore,  therefore, let's if there's a water bill issue,   Brandy is the one that's resolving a water bill  issues. If there is some other decisionm piece   that allows Jan to continue in her capacity  without the weight of being at meetings,   without the weight of carrying those particular  pieces so that she can finish up what she needs   to finish up so she can enjoy her retirement. I  do not feel that that changes two weeks from now.   I think it's I think now is the opportunity to  do that. We have a resignation on the table. We  

have a motion on the table. We've gone through the  review process in which everyone did not complete   those, but that is a different subject. And so  and so let's let's continue to move forward in   a in a in a seamless fashion and um honor  the requests. Also have someone that can   manage the process interim that has done this  before. In as much as there is a disagreement,   would you pull the appointment of the interim  from this motion and make it separately? I I   would I motion stands. If there's no further  discussion, yeah, I I'm I'm in support of   the motion um because there is no um deputy  treasurer. Uh if there was a deputy treasurer,   then I could understand kind of the argument  against um but since there is not one um we   We have an audit coming up. Every year we have an  audit coming up and we have not started it yet.   That is a very very tough thing to get through  and um it is not a fun thing to get through unless   you're a CPA and you just enjoy those kinds  of things. No offense to any CPAs out there.   Um but the um having Brandy in that position in my  mind makes it a much more easy ease of transition.   it makes it a more uh cover down on all the things  that are happening uh when we have a clerk who   is leaving during this specific time. So I that's  why I'm in support of it. Following that logic, we   don't have a deputy treasurer right now. How we've  been operating without now we need it and limited   operations. Yeah, we've been moving a lot of money  around limited operations, but we have not started   the audit which is due. We got to start Did we  have a deputy treasurer when we did last year's   audit? Yes. For me, it feels like we have a a  staff recommendation. Um, you know, it seems like  

Bry's on board with the transition. It would help  continuity. It's this is not about I don't have   any think I don't think that Jan's doing anything  nefarious. It's about giving her more time to   focus on the transition, not have to be at the  meetings. Uh, and so that we have more horsepower   in that transition in that department. It does  feel like a lot of movement all at once right now.   And I I could see that perspective of like, hey,  two weeks would give us time to kind of understand   the transition better and and understand  unintended consequences. Um, but if staff staff   sees a bigger picture and they're willing to say  this makes sense to me, which it sounds like what   Bry's doing, I'm supportive of that, you know.  Likewise, I get a letter today here sitting here.   I'm not prepared. I don't have a I don't have a  motion written. Yeah, exactly. That's my issue. I'm not I don't walk in ready  to make a motion today. I also   don't know who who turned in  or didn't turn in their their   um their evaluations. My concern is somebody  we're we're too prepared when we got here and I   wasn't. It was not my intention to have this  discussed at the commission meeting today. So, I would suggest that we follow Commissioner  L Comm Commissioner Lucas' idea and let's let   the two weeks come in and that we all have an  opportunity to digest what was given to us today. Does your motion still stand? Call the question.  Please call the RO. Commissioner Granger,   yes. Commissioner Street,  yes. Commissioner Hughes,   no. Commissioner Lucas, no. Mayor  Branch, yes. Motion passes three to two. Uh Mr. Mayor, as a reminder, uh uh prior  to y'all considering the consent agenda,   there was a suggestion by Mr. Zimmerman that we  pull off item 8E for the purpose of tableabling  

that in regards to cked alcohol sales and samples  given at Oak Bay by the Bay Park. I motion we   approve with the exception of item 8E. Uh we we  needed that table. Are we going to discuss it?   Do you want that table 8? Uh as part of  my motion, I'd like that we table 8E to   um how much time y'all need next meeting till the  20 uh till the next meeting in February. I I'm not   sure what university academy has to do with this  conversation. Sorry about that. So I'll uh yeah,   we have a motion and a second. Any discussion?  Just a question. There's a note for uh 8K   chartered officers evaluations. There's no action  to be taken there. Should that be removed? What   What are we approving if we approve that? Just  accepting of those. Yeah, there's nothing to   approve. It's it's there just uh it was a to  accept whatever has been turned in or it really   is there's no action to take. It's just it had  been continued. I So would it be prudent to strike   that? That's fine. As part of a motion, we'll  strike each key move. Right. And the second still   stands? Yes. Any discussion? Call the RO. Can  I clarify? Is AK permanently stricken? No. From   today's consent agenda. That was my intention.  I don't know about my colleagues. I don't want   it to go anywhere else on the agenda. I mean, we  don't think we need to discuss it outside of that,   right? That's that was the request. Just strike  it. Just to strike it. Yeah. So, no no uh date   certain to have it read in the future. I don't  see any reason, but Okay, second stands. Okay,   please call the RO. Commissioner Granger, yes.  Commissioner Street, yes. Commissioner Hughes,  

yes. Commissioner Lucas, yes. Mayor Branch, yes.  Motion passes 5-0. Item 9A. That is my item. Um, this job is an interesting job in that you get  questions uh on on items and you don't have the   answer to them. And so here recently as mayor,  people have been tagging me in a petition and   and emailing me about uh I guess I I think it's  pronounced Kraton uh facilities or you know people   used to say the paper mill smells and the paper  mill went away and the smell is still there and   the they people say that the smell has gotten  worse. And so when people come to me and they   say you should do something about it, I don't  really have an answer. uh in software we have   a term called a research spike which means  go spend a small amount of time figuring out   different paths of execution and so I'm asking uh  and you know the paper mill and kraton aren't even   in the city limits unincorporated bay county but  you smell it in Panama City and some of my initial   research there are paths to strongly encouraging  companies to um have the higher standard of what   they emit into our air and uh I want that for us  and but I don't know the mechanisms to get them   to do that. And so what I'm asking is is for this  body to allow staff to spend maybe it's a day or   two just figuring out what our options are. Um do  we you know is it a civil matter? Is it something   that we can you know support that Springfield  pushes on or Bay County pushes on? I don't know   the answer to that. And so it's weird being mayor  and someone says you should do something. You go   I don't know how that works. And so I'd like to  know our our possible paths. And so that's why I   put on the agenda to discuss. Do we need to take  action to do that to give instructions though? No,   I just it I I do appreciate it being brought up  so it wouldn't be a surprise when a report comes   back. Oh, and let me preference too if we move  forward with this. I I don't think it's like we   need it tomorrow. It's you know, hey, 90 days when  your board when Evan's bored you, you know, given  

something to work on the uh but but obviously  would be happy to help staff look at it. It it   is it involves the county uh because it is located  physically within the county probably involves   Springfield and maybe Callaway the same way would  involve the city. So I believe staff would reach   out to those other jurisdictions for any thoughts  that they have had on it. Um it would uh be you   know kind of a review of what D regulations there  are on it and then also a review of what other   uh the mayor had uh given us information about  other cities that have done something and look   at that too. I like this format of bringing  it forward. Um we've had an issue with a lake   that abuts St. Andrews in between Point and you  know 23rd Street and it's in the county. So like   there's I I don't know what to do. I mean I've  been asked numerous times like hey you know this   is a nuisance this this I'm like I have literally  have no control over it. So you know if staff   could spend some time figuring out how we provide  better coordination like between the different um   the different areas because it does impact us too.  Um but we also understand that Kraton's a a good   you know corporate partner. Um, I just obviously  if it would not smell that would be fantastic. I   don't know if that's possible. Nobody's asked  the question. Nobody's asked the question. So,   my grandfather retired from that paper mill.  It's his fault. And it's his fault. No. Um,   and and so my my dad worked there as well and they  would tell stories and I'm sure some of you that   have been around for for a while here remember  the paper mill when it used to spew coffee ground.   like it wasn't coffee grounds, but it looked like  coffee grounds. And people would have a vehicle   that um that was specifically a mill truck. And  um and that's why they put the uh the car wash  

outside of there. You know, I when I would go to  Rutherford um they uh you know, sometimes I'd pop   in there and and and get the truck washed off,  you know, and and it's just water spraying. But   the whole point behind that was to wash all the  coffee grounds off until eventually somebody said   enough. and then they they they put it on them to  say, "Hey, you've got to stop spewing this out,   right?" And so, to my mind, it's a very similar  request of, "Hey, you know, you're hap we're   happy that you're here. We're happy that you're  an employer here, but um you know, the smell is   kind of making you a bad neighbor." And uh I think  I think there's probably ways forward for for that   to be um to be mediated before it gets into the  air. I just don't know what that is. Me neither.   But yeah, I I support it. Um, I I support if  there's a motion that needs to be made. Um,   or if if staff can just take direction. I I'm not  sure what what we're looking for here. Mr. Mayor,   I believe this would be outside of the normal  course of business for the attorney's office.   Should there be a budget discussion? Not not at  this meeting. I think we'd like to do just Thank   you. uh an interim overall review which will not  take much time and when I sketched out everything   that could be done I anticipate giving a a a  an initial reaction and then based upon that   uh yes we could have a and it might logically lead  to a special project this one for everybody. Well,   no, it's it's paid for. Believe me, it's  paid for in the lump sum. But thank you. So,   you don't need any board action to move forward.  And I'll reach out to the county leadership in   Springfield Leadership and see if they've heard  similar complaints and and you know, comments from   the community as well. Yeah, sounds good. I'm I  have direction. Awesome. And it's and it's not to  

spend a whole lot of time just don't bake the cake  completely. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Item 10 A,   commissioners report table till March 10th. All  right. The um see 11 A 11 A. Okay. On 11 A uh you   have a letter actually it could have been tabled  because I was thinking it was connected to the   next item which has to do with improvements.  But I do I did want to report I received that   uh the the u this is pursuant to a uh letter  I wrote I believe it was in December to the   commission that that had to do with wrapping up  things with uh CMP pursuant to the this is St.   Peters we have St. Anders I don't I lost  my agenda here you go I've got my digital Oh, that sorry 11. Thank you. This is kinder as well. Um, I was working working ahead. I apologize for  that. Okay. 11A is a is a very extensive report.   a portion of which deals with uh the uh cost  plus contract um and the probable costs for   upland reconstruction of St. Andrews Marina.  I will u defer to uh Jonathan and his staff   as far as to go over the memo that is a re  as a revised estimate of probable costs for   upland consideration. I will focus initially on my  letter that is buried in this um uh information,  

but it's a letter that talks about the cost  plus for bulkhead repairs at St. Andrews. And   and I attached some excerpts of the ground lease  that talks about that the um the parties agreed   that the city would pay for the cost to repair  the St. Andrew's Marina bulkhead and that the   bulkhead would need to be repaired before the end  of 2031. And and at the time that this was done,   um there was a desire to start construction of the  wet slips, but also be prepared to do whatever it   took to shore up the bulkhead while the wet slips  were being constructed. That was the stated goal.   One approach could have been to remove all  the uh boats and uh just stop for a couple   of years while or a year and a half whatever it  took to rebuild the bulkhead. That approach was   not taken. Instead, what was taken was to hire  SAMP uh St. Andrews Marina partners and one of   those partners is Gorman Construction who  is in the business of building wet slips.   So, um, the the desire was to also have them  have SAMP enter into a contract to actually   build the bulkhead while it's also building  the wet slip. So, the task was, okay, well,   how what what does this contract look like?  because we don't know exactly the timing and   this has to do with the date of the contract other  than we think the useful life is 2031 so it needs   to be done before then we also don't know the  scope of the work now the scope of the work   would be driven by the the permit that is obtained  um that that but there was a chance that a permit  

wouldn't be needed because of the plan that was  being talked about but wasn't finalized so you   didn't we didn't know the time we didn't know  the scope and we didn't know the price and in   fact at one time it was talked about that this  would be done in phases and so you wouldn't do   the entire bulkhead at the same time. So in light  of that, what what instrument legal instrument is   available to lock in for the citizens and the  city the best possible arrangement that would   provide for a qualified contractor to build this  this thing uh the bulkhead while the wet slips are   being built potentially while they're being built.  Um and while the permit hasn't been obtained, what   could be done? So an AIA cost plus contract was  agreed to by the parties a the form of it and the   form is attached as an exhibit to the um um to the  contra I mean to the lease agreement and look at and in the cost form in the cost plus contract  it's of the form is one that's used nationwide   and there's been a lot of u you know commentaries  case law things concerning it. And so when you   have a situation when you don't know for good  reasons what the cost is going to be but you know   you want to lock in the vendor or the person this  the contractor that's going to build it. There's   a provision for how to do that. And so there under  our cost plus contract in uh articles 7 especially  

uh yes seven and 8 in particular there there  is a a discussion of the charges that or the   cost that would be reimbursed. For example  the term cost of the work shall mean costs   necessarily incurred by the contractor in the  proper performance of the work. So the work has   to be related to performance of the contractor  and the cost shall be at rates not higher than   the standard paid at the place of the project.  Then there's a standard for labor cost. It's the   actual wages or salary of the construction workers  workers that are employed by the contractor. And   there's a standard for contractor supervisory and  administrative personnel the actual actual wages   that are paid. Then also costs paid or incurred by  the contractor as far as insurance contributions,   assessments and benefits um would would be uh part  of that. Then when it comes to subcontractor cost,   there is a mechanism here and also the cost of  materials. There's a mechanism in the contract   on how the uh contractor obtains quotes u you  know makes it competitive on their end and all   of that information is supplied to the city even  rental charges and the cost of debris removal um   and premiums for insurance and bonds. So there's  a very detailed listing and also the city would be   this will be very intensive labor intensive on the  part of the city to monitor this because there's a   requirement to provide the city its books to  show the costs to provide the city with the   um uh comp you know the different quotes that are  received and um and then also finally there's a  

the reim there is a provision for its cost plus  but there is a different markup if the work is   being done by related parties. So for example  if Gorman construction which it will be would   be doing the work it isn't marked up like uh  other subcontractors would be marked up because   they are a related party and the markup I believe  is in and I just lost it but it's in one of the   uh sections as well. So the point of that and in  and in my letter is just that there is a cost plus   contract and the um amount still won't be known  when we actually sign the cost plus because it's a   form. We'll know an estimate but as we go through  because even though this it's projected to be 18   months we don't know for sure all the steel will  be purchased at once. we don't know for sure of   any of the uh and and so we looked back at the  contract to make certain that it is the cost. So   that's that's what the commission determined which  was a fair way to resolve this desire to build   the bets the wet slips while the bulkhead is also  being built without knowing all of the parameters   that you typically would know when you enter into  a construction contract. And I have other things   uh pointed out there in my letter, but I think  that that's gives you a good framework at least   uh as far as what was in the mind of the  commission at the time that this was entered into   and now is the time where uh construction could  commence fairly soon on the bulkhead. Mr. Mayor,   I have a question. Mr. Zimman, could you tell us  succinctly what the question is before us today?  

Oh, today yes. Today you're I think that this is a  little sideline and I made a long speech about it,   but the main issue is that you're going to get  a report on the cost. There is no action that I   am requesting of today and I don't believe  there's any action that the city manager,   but it's good to get a report because it it  will be some action soon. And um as far as um   you signing the actual cost plus contract but uh  it's mainly it is really a report to because it's   been a long time since we've talked about this and  then uh the main purpose I think is that we have   received cost estimates and from u cap and that  those estimates Mr. Uh Clint Murphy is here and   and Jonathan Hayes is here to talk about the  question. Why would we wait any longer if we   know that the cost is going up every day? Why  why take no action today? If we're getting if   we're going to sign a contract, that's the goal,  right? Yeah. The contract has been approved in   the it was attached as an exhibit, right? It's in  the it's in the lease agreement, right? But but I   am but I believe that you need there needs to be a  level of comfort before we actually sign the final   cost plus contract. So whether it's uh we need to  hear probably from uh SAMP as far as whether this   meeting or a meeting two weeks from now it makes  a difference as far as their timing. I believe   they're to be done uh maybe in March with the  uh 50 wet slips and and maybe able to take over   operation in April or so. But um that's that's  that would be a good question for Sam. Yeah. And  

and I'll just add, you know, I think in in the  past, you know, it was talked about, you know,   this was up to 12.9 million. So uh but again  the contract was that was just the estimate at   the time but now as we've moved forward with the  project and and the contract does call for that   cost and so that's why we've updated that. So I  think I agree with Mr. Zimmerman that we just want   to make sure that there's a level of of maybe not  necessarily comfort but maybe just understanding   u from the board as we do move forward uh so that  there's no no surprises further down because the   estimates are coming in higher now than originally  uh when I think it's probably over two years ago   when we first initiated this effort just to  provide some clarity you conveniently left out   that we also pay for the overage it's what the  contract says right it says 12.9 as a citizen I   signed and and them buying um material as soon as  possible because that fixes my cost. The longer   we wait, this this is about what's in the four  corners of this contract, folks. It is on us   and the longer we wait, the long the more it's  going to cost. Just something to think about   because we've had approximately 2.5 million  increase in two years. And so with cost plus   um it's just going up. Yes. No. Concrete's gone  down the past couple years. Um so I'd say overall,   yeah, things probably have gone up. I um you know,  the the CRA in that area can borrow $3.2 million   per the city clerk's email about 6 months ago.  I think we pull out things that are necessary   right now and we look at the pavilion and things  like that that we can do in a year. Um, and we use   the CRA as a mechanism to fund those things. All  the beautifification tools, the benches. I mean,   go to Greenville and Mayor Knox White says that  every light pole bench has someone's name on it   because they they try to get every dollar from the  citizens of like, you want to sponsor the bench,  

we'll put your grandma's name on it. You buy  the bench. and they get super scrappy with   how they spend their money or they don't do it  all at once. And I think we could pull some of   these things out so we get closer to that 2.9  uh and we see what's important now versus what   we need to make a decision on in a year. Just  to answer uh Commissioner Lucas's question. Um,   in my letter I say upon a determination by the  sub city commission that the time to repair the   bulkhead is during the construction of the wet  slips, the the city is reasonably satisfied with   the design plans permit scope of work and price  submitted and that the source of funding has been   identified, you should be in a position to execute  the contract that's attached as an exhibit. That's   and this is part of that process. So, so two  things. One, one, the way that I operate with   design, build contracts, whatever it is that when  things go over, the the the cost plus doesn't go   up. And so that means, yeah, sure, the cost went  up, but doesn't mean your profit margin gets to go   up. That that's that's how I operate. I know  that's not how this contract's operated, but   here's but here's here's the here's where I'm at.  So to your point on the CRA, absolutely CRA could   borrow money, but that also means that every other  project that we've got in the pipeline stops. And   so that is a lot of conversation with citizens  to go back and say, "Hey, you know what? We said   this, now we're not doing this, and we're not  doing this, and we're not doing this." So really   I I would like for staff to go back and try to  figure out what we can do for you guys to bring us   something that's closer to where we were. Whether  that is in, you know, sacrificing cost plus margin   on top of that or, you know, the decision here  may be just to wait. And I hate that. Um that's   not what I want to see. But it's going to stir up  a whole another a whole another hornets's nest of  

stuff if we start cancelling projects that are  right now in the middle of construction. The   things that would be affected truedale, things at  Oaks by the Bay, things that with the parking lot   that we purchased two years ago. I mean that it it  would be a staggering effect that would continue   down the line. And you're right, there are  trade-offs. And so, you know, um, am I comfortable   with, you know, 15 something million dollars and  the escalations that happened? No, I'm not. Um,   but, you know, at the same time, I don't really  know what to do from the standpoint other than   do what predecessors have done and, you know, kick  the can down the a little bit and see if we can't   get more margin, finish up a few projects and not  be affected. I like that's the other thing. Or get   into some kind of negotiation piece. Yeah. And in  all fairness, from my understanding, the the the   2.9 was not a we didn't give them a design plan.  There was an engineer. It was kind of like best   case scenario and best case scenario didn't  happen for various reasons. And so that's why   we're having the conversation. And I would applaud  that 12.9 without any any drawing, unit cost, we   expanded their scope. I would I would applaud that  rather than say that's bad. Yeah. And a three-year   period in construction that has gone up just  monumentally. three $2.5 million and we expanded   their scope. This ought to be a slam dunk. Do the  deal. And that's in your backyard, commissioner.   That's one less thing you got to check and it  gets done. The fact that we're going to talk about   slowing this down, I I completely disagree with  and the city needs to have something that they're   working towards the end. And it's money that that  contract that was done by the last commission. It   it is very explicit in there. My real estate dad  taught me one thing very good. What's inside the   four corners of the of the contract is what  we work with. Outside of that, what you want,   what you think doesn't matter because that's  what y'all agreed to back then. That's what we  

agreed to now. And so, I believe that we ought to  push forward as as a city and complete a project.   Let's get this project done because we're that  close. $2 million and 15 million over three   years. That's a lot of money, but it's not. my my  today's standards to to to piggyback off of Rob's   comment. You mentioned that there is a mechanism  for us to be reimbursed through some maintenance   agreement that's in this contract like we could  pull from maintenance dollars. You said that to me   at one point in time like there's a syncing fund  that we're putting things to. We could reimburse   ourselves for this cost through that. Was that  true? If I said it, of course. Okay. Well, you   did say it, so I'm just wrong to reiterate that's  what you said. It it is true except there is no   money until the city until the finish until it's  finished and there's operation and that that is a   u when we receive our share our our share of gross  revenue it goes into this fund. Um so but that's   the money and there is no money right now but it  is true in theory but it's not in actuality as far   as it's not in reality because there's no money  the cost back above what the revenue share was I   I do want to draw attention one and not to throw  another thing in the mix but the bulkhead project   now we did move to the downtown marina. FEMA did  give us some money for this bulkhead project,   but it is sitting on the downtown marina right  now. $5 million. $5 million. And that that is   essentially represents what is catastrophically  broken with the um with the marina right now. Um   you know, obviously it's at the end of its useful  life just like the downtown was. So you went out   and borrowed money to do the bulkhead project.  That's that's how that one got done. and it was a  

lot cheaper, you know, four years ago or 5 years  ago when that one started than it is now. Um,   I'm open I I'm open to solutions. I'm open even to  looking at the CRA thing. My my concern and what   I'm throwing up a red flag on is I don't want to  have an I mean people advocate for projects for a   very long period of time and then to just go and  in one meeting decide, hey, we're erasing all of   those. This is what we're doing. Then I I need to  at least have the time to have conversations and   help people understand, hey, look, if we want to  get the marina done now, this is what we have to   do. Um, you know, I at least need to know. Why  aren't you open with completing the terms in the   contract? Y'all y'all agree to y'all y'all agree  to it? Why aren't you open to following through   with those terms? Well, I think the costs have  escalated so much, Robbie. I mean, I think that's   the reality. If we would have executed two years  ago, this would be a completely different We did.   Well, but we didn't. and and the cost. Let's look  at it really good. Every contractor I talk to,   they're like, "Dude, that's that's nothing. That's  a no-brainer in this price range with no plans,   no nothing." I mean, I think we had a city, we  had our engineers, our staff, and Gorman came   up with a price. So, it's not like we had we had  an we had a hand in and our people's and our in   our engineers said, "Here's a price as well."  You know, here's our price. Y'all said okay.   with plans with all of that. We only moved this  much by comparison that's in your contract that   y'all said it was okay. There is direction in the  contract for us to move forward. It doesn't say   stop. It doesn't say renegotiate. It doesn't say  breach. But we can delay is what we can you can   but honestly that's probably also could be cost  even more. You know, it does say specifically that   if we don't pay that's reach if we don't fund the  the marina fund, it's in there. Okay, I read the   contracts, by the way. Um, and so it it's it's odd  to me that we get to the nonrevenue pieces on each  

marina. The other one's gone on non-revenue, and  here we are non-revenue again, which has already   been voted on, and we're trying to stop again.  Let's just move through the contract, follow the   terms, and be done. Yeah, I agree. The problem I  have is how do we pay for it? Like, that's really   what it It's tied to the It's tied to the fund.  it. That vote was tied to the to the long-term   debt. The credit card coming, right? But that's  the vote. That's not a long-term fund. That's a   short the the hurricane fund. How about that? So  So I I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank you. So um I like the   idea of potentially using the um uh the syncing  fund to help reimburse it. The kind of the more   nerdy question that I have in regards to that is  is that if that syncing fund is set up primarily   for uh monies to be used on top of the marina and  cannot be used outside of the marina, then we have   to be very careful on how we structure how do  we pay for this? Because if we pay for this   with funds that are not meant specifically for the  marina, then are we going to be able to reimburse   out of that syncing fund? And I'm Dan, I'm kind of  looking at you on that backwards. we pay for with   the hurricane fund and we're paying back from the  marina fund to ourselves is the way that they're   trying to do that. And my question is is that  kosher from a accounting perspective due to the   legalities of the syncing fund only being able to  be used on the syncing fund question because it's   contractual that says we can do that but you're  right maybe that doesn't allow that to come out of   that. There is a way forward. I'm just suggesting  that as we consider things on how we we fund this   that we have an empty scing fund but eventually  there will be money in it. How do we structure   something so that that money can be used to pay  back what we're looking to do on these on on this  

um we're think the bulk the bulkheads. That's all  I'm suggesting because again, all of this is going   on to the the $150 million loan and eventually uh  when we're when we dispense with that loan, this   will have to roll over to long-term debt. Some  of it will, if not all of it. And so, what does   that look like and how do we pay it back is really  what I'm focused on. All my real estate projects,   whenever something comes in higher than the bid,  I don't go, I'm going to go get more money. I go,   well, what do we have to cut back and decide  later? Um, yeah, I don't have problem with that   either. Yeah. So, to me it's what are the what are  the necessities versus what can we do in a year? I   think I think what what you what you'll find Allan  in this one is there's not really I mean there's   not much the pavilion what is that 80 grand? I  mean, $446,000 that seems to cut that back. Yeah.   So, you know, there's not a whole lot that's there  that's not um that's that's not related to steel,   tiebacks, concrete, you know, and um and  you know, utilities and so you know, anyway,   I I'm but you but hopefully you guys hear from me.  I'm I'm trying to be a problem solving partner.   Like I obviously I want to see the project going.  I'd love for us to just do the 15 and just just   move on with it. So Robbie, thank you for however.  However, I don't feel that the same support across   the board and I don't think that's because they  don't support the project. I think it's because   we do have to think about what happens after  we terminate the $150 million loan. And I and   I recognize that reality. And so I want to try to  figure out if there's there may be a path forward   in a different way. I want to point something out.  We're concerned about messing up the $150 million   over $2 million, but we already know we're using  12.9. Yeah, $2 million is the problem here. No,   sir. It is uh I have been concerned about the 12.9  from day one. Oh, no, no, no. But my point is,  

if it was just 12.9, we wouldn't be having  this conversation. We'd be voting it. We So   12.9 is there. But we're concerned about adding  $2 million. I'm sorry. Let me put that on there.   That's a problem. It's $12.9 million, folks.  That's a lot of money. Okay. Why are we worried   about two went over three years? Two years.  Yes, sir. Can I just make one point, please?   Justin Gorman, 1944 Frankfurt Avenue. Um I know 15  million has been thrown around and 2 million and   rough those kind of numbers and that was the whole  full package. That's pavilion everything. So just   one point of clarification that um line item for  light item from the original 12.9 that was smooth,   huh? I can't do it again. Pretty good. Item for  item. um if you go back to the original scope   of work um was 12.962 was what was provided to  the city. Um item for item we're now at 14.565.   Um I provide and Clint and I have gone back and  forth a lot over the past couple weeks trying to   get this thing where it was presentable to you  guys. I'm not sure what all made it in front of   you. Um but there are some other opportunities  for savings which was processing the concrete   which was roughly $70,000. Um there were DPO  opportunities which was roughly $226,000. I'm   sure y'all are familiar with DPO. Um, so that got  us down to 14.268, which is a $1.3 million spread,   uh, which is roughly 9%. So I know it's been 2  million, 2.5, 15 million. So I just want to make   that point of clarification that it's really,  really once we get down to the nuts and bolts,   it's 1.3 different spread uh, on what's  actually needed to replace the bulkhead.   Justin, if I can ask you a question. So, in your  experience, because you guys do this all the time,   um, what are the what I what I do fear is  something similar what we've encountered with   Martin Theater is like we go in and then all of a  sudden we get like bunch of change. Oh, here's a   here's another change. Here's a how confident are  you in this design and this that when you get and   you guys say go like we're going to be go. So,  obviously there's some optics here that we don't   want to get involved in. Like we don't want to be  coming to back of you guys with a bunch of change  

orders because of our involvement in SAM. Um, so  there were some things that we got ahead of. Uh,   the initial design had a sheet pile wall for the  tieback system, not just the face of the wall, the   sheet, the tieback system was a sheet pile wall.  Um, there was discussion back at the beginning of   this whole thing where it was contemplated that  the existing tieback system was either cable or   rods that went from one side of the bulkhead to  the other side. There is no tieback system. One   side's just tied to the other. Um, so as we went  through that, it was determined that driving sheet   piles would conflict with those existing tie  rods. So what would happen if if that h if we   did that is that we'd have to cut the existing  tie rods, drive the sheet pile tieback system,   which would then allow the existing wall to fail  before we got the new wall in. So we went back,   we redesigned it to driven concrete 18-in  pre-cast piles. That allows us to drive the piles   in between the existing tieback system. So where  I'm going with this is we've tried to think about   everything that we possibly could ahead of time  that could constitute, you know, us having to come   back up here and, you know, get tomatoes thrown  at us potentially. You know, we don't want to I   don't want to come back up here. I want to want to  get this done and never ask have to ask the city   for one more red penny. Are you saying there's  potential for a change order to give money back   into the contract? Is that what you're saying? You  don't have to answer Is there is there consensus   to, you know, move forward with the the the  original cost estimate that was provided and just   those items and then maybe we look to the CRA and  additional funding sources for the other things   that have been added in. That's a half a million  dollar savings. That's it. That's not much,   but it's something. It's something. Yes, sir.  Well, but I don't think I I think that I think   that's going back and saying, "Hey, your project  may delay a year to complete this or two years   rather than me going back and saying, "Hey, I  don't know whenever it's going to happen." I mean,   that that I think that's way more palatable to  not stirring up another issue to to solve. If not,   I mean, we've got one parking lot that's got just  a just got dirt on it right now. And so, I would  

I would hate to not fulfill the obligations that  we've made. Well, and it's not a big line item,   but there is the uh curb stops, which are  roughly $30,000, which the city already owns. So,   that's another 30, not a lot, but $30,000 that  could come off because the city already owns   several hundred of them that were, I think, down  right now. So, Commissioner Street, can you make   the financial case for delaying that it would be  a cost savings to delay or that the city would   somehow benefit for delaying? Not from a cost  perspective. I think the only thing it does for   us is it provides us with a little more knowns as  far as that $150 million line, but we could find   ourselves in a spot where it's even more um and  you know and it probably will be more 3 years from   now. I mean reality is however um we would have a  little bit more information but I mean what we're   talking about what I just heard was the difference  in cost versus what was originally proposed to us   to what it is today is about a $1.3 million number  which is less than a 10% change from what it was   or so it's basically about a 10% change over 2  years. That to me actually sounds reasonable.   And now knowing that there's some other items that  have been added in. Granted, I think the community   supports those items. I mean, they want to see the  pavilion back. They want to see those things 100%.   No point in having a big concrete thing right on  the water with no way to enjoy it. And so, but I   think that sounds to me a lot more reasonable  than, you know, the number that was proposed,   even though it's only it's only $500,000. Okay.  So, the the CRA pays for it. Do they have to   go out and get a loan for it or do they have the  money for it? I don't know. That's I think that's   another discussion that will happen. The reason  I ask is you're going to kick that can down the   road. Then we figure out what's going we have  we have to pay for it. Now that's tax dollars.   But it either way it's a trade-off. I'm just I'm  trying to think for him. Let's not I've got I've  

got two members here that were supportive maybe  one that was somewhat supportive. Um so that were   supportive of doing this. What I what I'm trying  to communicate right now is I'm in this to help   problem solve because I don't want to just push  more debt on to us as a city. And so, you know,   is it reasonable for the cost to have escalated  10% in 2 years? Yes, I think that's reasonable.   There are amenities that the community is going  to enjoy. Is it reasonable for the CRA to pay   for those? Yes, I do think that, too. And so,  okay. Then those amenities don't have to be   put in the current CRA budget. Right. That's  correct. Cuz they could be done at the very   end and so it may not affect as much as what and  we may find we want a bigger pavilion or smaller   but it gets us through a little bit of a gap of  a time. It's just I mean it's it's symbolic. It's   it's hundreds of thousand dollars. It's it's it's  you know push the decision. I do like the idea,   mayor, that you came up with of reaching out  to community um and saying, "Hey, you know,   would your company like to sponsor or would you  like to sponsor or would you like, you know,   this person's estate to uh sponsor this bench  or this this this, you know, pavilion or what   have you." Um, and through donation to the city  that, you know, that that would that would then   realize that that thing for happening. Um, so I'm  I'm really happy you're going to take that on and   The Granger Pavilion sounds good. Can I offer  some information that might be helpful? Yeah.   Clint Murphy, director of public works. I'm also  a resident of St. Andrews and a avid boater in the   local community. So, uh I think this this marina  is very important, but just to give you a feel   for the cost. So in the contract that was agreed  to back in April of uh 2024 uh the SAM group SAMP   group um was responsible to provide reasonable  cost. So the question is how did we determine that  

their cost was reasonable? I've spent the last  two weeks taking a real close look at this. So   I looked at a couple things. Number one, if you  look at exhibit B that was provided to my memo,   uh SAMP actually went through and showed where  they received competitive pricing on some of the   key components of the work. Uh and looking at  that, and they of course picked the the lowest   price received on those quotes. The other thing  I used to verify that was I looked at historic uh   FOT cost data from last year, 2025. Uh the search  was between January 1st and December 31st. They   did have a lot of projects that involved sheet  pile wall and their costs were in line with those   historic costs from last year. And lastly, I think  Jonathan's uh Mr. Hayes sent it out yesterday, but   uh I didn't get this information till after my  memo was done, but they actually did a turnkey   u quote uh to do all the buckhead work uh by  a subcontractor. That contractor was Howal   Jones out of Jacksonville, Florida. They're very  wellrespected company. Uh I worked in Jacksonville   for three years and did several projects with them  and they provided a quote and when you subtracted   the the and compared apples to apples for instance  they didn't include include electrical work in   their price. They actually came in above the  Gorman price. So I can stand before you and   honestly recommend to you that this price is a  very reasonable price for for the scope of work   that's included. Now, the other thing I'd like to  point out, if you go down to the turn uh of the   LDOC, you'll see that you can't even use it. It's  falling in. It's dilapidated. It's unsafe. Uh I'm   not sure who came up with the 30 2031 estimate,  but quite honestly, agree with that. I think we  

it it it's to me it's a safety concern, and the  sooner we can get that repair started, the better.   Thank you, Clint. Any questions? Okay. Actually,  I have one. Yes. You just said you were the public   works director, but I think for the benefit of  the public and the commission, your 30 years of   history that kind of effectuates your position in  estimates and construction management. What have   you done? Oh, thanks, Jonathan. I would have sent  out my resume. Actually, I do have quite a bit of   marina experience uh throughout throughout my  career. I worked over in Dubai for three years.   uh developing high-end luxury marinas uh in the  Middle East and all around the Dubai area. So,   this is not foreign territory for me,  but I have 40 plus years of heavy civil   infrastructure experience including marinas.  Thank you. Thank you. Not in charted waters. Oh,   so do I do I hear a consensus? I think  there's a consensus to move forward on   the what items were in the original cost  estimate and then look to the CRA for the   things that were not or or just or just the  explore funding explore it. They could we   could somebody could Yep. make it. Okay. And so  really what we're we're talking about is the 14   565 that you just gave us approximately  plus 20%. So does that include the 20%? And that only goes up if  we wait is my point. That's   right. You get flexibility of the decision later. Well, there's no motion on the table, right?  Do we want to make a motion? Does he want   make a motion? You've been seconding. I've been  trying to get Josh because I seconding the I'll   motion to move forward with the original  contract specifications. those line items  

um underneath the the current terms of how  we're financing it uh with looking to the   CRA for the items that we talked about today  that can be deducted expanded scope expanded   I think that's a better that's all in there the  expanded scope um looking to the CRA to fund   the expanded scope and other methods and other  methods please throw and other methods CRA and   other methods yeah that could be that could be the  single fund that could be anything did you want to   specify the St. St. Andrew CRA. Yeah, I think  we have to. Yeah, it has to be spend downtown. Why not? St. Andrew CRA. Yes. Yes. We have a  second on that. Yes, sir. And any discussion?   I think we already discussed it. Okay. I was  giving you the opportunity to say it again.   Please call the role. Commissioner Granger, yes.  Commissioner Street, yes. Commissioner Hughes,   yes. Commissioner Lucas, yes. Mayor Branch, yes.  Motion passes 5. Mayor, just Yes. and then I'll   take a break quick clarification uh or I can do  it after we come back but it's it won't it'll   take just a minute. Okay. So I believe by the  action today and this is just to make sure that   u staff's on the same uh path that this commission  looking back at my letter uh you've determined   that the time to repair the bulkhead is during  construction of the wet slips and so we're   proceeding ahead with the cost plus contract and  that the city is satisfied with the design plans   and we've talked I know this has been a subject  of talk for a long time permits I don't believe   a permit is necessary because of the way they're  designing it. Then scope of work and price. Now   on scope of work, I know that the city is going  to look at the scope and see if there's anything   that doesn't have to be done and that might  potentially be u uh clarified. As for price, you  

have it's still an estimate because the cost is  the cost and that is all all of that stuff in the   um cost plus contract. most of the language is how  the city goes about verifying the cost. And so the   city will probably end up with a a construction  manager slashengineer that will help us as we   go through that. We actually have the rights to  to look at the books as far as the actual labor   cost and things like that. Does that cost more? It  does. It does. It does, but that's we can trust.   But that's in the cost plus contract to do that.  Yeah, it's in the cost plus contract. But that's   but but if that's what this mo I heard that was  what this motion is, then I believe we'd be able   to sign the contract and knowing that we have a  cost estimate and that we're going to, you know,   use all of the mechanisms in our contract that we  approve for a cost plus contract to ensure that   it comes in within that. So, we're going to sign  a contract. It's cost plus. The yaboo about cost   is it goes up and it goes down. They give us an  invoice. That's the cost of it. But to say it's   an estimate, yes, it is. But that's the estimate  we start with based on change orders or not. That   contract moves forward. And um do we pay 20% on  any change order or no? That was the question I   do have. And if not, the number they give us an  invoice, we should accept that. Correct. There's   not a lot of investigation. Okay. The when I use  the word estimate, I am talking about when you   add up all of these cost, you get Yes. the number  and not all of those numbers in that cost are they   don't have invoices for all of it because they're  not building the whole project tomorrow. They're  

building it over the next year and a half. So  that but you're right. Once there is an invoice,   they have to go through the terms of the contract  and show how they got the subcontractor uh hired   or or whatever or the materials purchased.  And then when the invoice is submitted,   then the city looks at that is the correct  price and that quantity was delivered, you know,   or or that work is being done. So there's there  this is a very heavy uh labor intensive on the   part of the city to actually implement this  cost plus contract but that's what was agreed to   uh long time ago under the circumstances. So  um uh so I believe that I believe we have a if   that's I believe that's what the motion was. I  just wanted to re reiterate that and uh they'll   be uh excited about seeing it happen. Anything  else? Let's do it. Let's do a 10-minute recess.

Welcome back. Welcome back. I know. Yeah. That probably wouldn't be a good candies. I think I've been All right. Item welcome  back. Are we ready? Item item 12A is consideration   to approve the membership and rental fee schedule  for the Martin Luther King Jr. Recreation Center.   Attached for the commission's consideration  is the revised proposed fee schedule,   which we will put up on the screen momentarily for  the MLK Junior Rec Center. Membership and rental   fees. This new center does include a fitness  center, gymnasium, STEM lab, teaching kitchen,   arts and craft studio, multi-purpose rooms, and  outdoor recreation areas. Previously submitted to   the commission on December 16th of last year, and  the commission approved allowing free access to   all areas of the MLK Junior Rec Center through the  end of February of 2026 and instructed staff to   further engage the community for feedback on the  recommended fees. A town hall was held on January   7th of this year with approximately 75 community  members in attendance. And then following the town   uh following that town hall, the NAACP organized  additional community meetings uh for further   input, a group represented by various members  of the community met with city leadership to   present their recommendations. And so uh you'll  see those changes that we have um put on here   uh that are now up on the screen um are in red uh  for both the public and the commission to see. Um   some some great feedback that we got from the from  the community. um changes are adding an additional   discount for those that might be in college. So  that's why you see age 18 to 21. Um getting $50   instead of the 100. Uh and then uh 18 to 21  who is not a city resident uh would get still  

get a discount down to 100 instead of the 200. Um  military disabled or 60 plus uh with relevant ID   would be allowed $75 a year. Uh we did create the  golden senior membership 70 plus uh that's free   but again only to city Panama City or Bay County  residents. Um and then I think if you go to the   next page please, uh there is um some additional  feedback and then and again I just want to remind   the commission you know we talked about doing this  for about 6 months and then uh during that time   getting additional feedback uh and um and and you  know u kind of tracking how we're doing and uh and   to that end so uh the special event stuff we did  make some modifications to that based on feedback.   Uh we did uh indicate that the uh deposit is  refundable and then we did agree to reduce the   setup fee uh depending on you know what parts of  the uh of the uh multi-purpose room might be used   uh for the community room to that end. So, uh,  we did take, uh, one thing that, um, and I don't   remember which one of the, uh, folks that came  up during the time and spoke, but, um, you know,   the sliding scale concept was presented, but  honestly, I just, um, I I don't feel comfortable   or think it's appropriate for the staff at the MLK  rec center to be looking at proofs of income and   and earnings history and and all of that. I just  we wanted to try to keep it as simple as possible.   Uh and and again um really our PCR director Keith  Meyer and uh Javian Elliott uh they were the ones   that were kind of point on this uh with Mr. Jones.  And so u they've had additional conversations   that really um you know effectuated the the  recommendation that uh that is revised and and   and before you here today and uh he'd be happy to  answer any questions as well depending on how far   down in the weed y'all would like to get. Surely  there's got to be somebody in the clerk's office  

that we can trust to look at numbers, financials  of somebody that's already on on staff if we were   to use sliding scale. Well, there's been a  Well, we're going to do the scholarship. So,   I mean, that goes without being said. That was  already kind of that's already done. Scholarship   for memberships. So we remember the Panama City  Community Fund set that up and it's one of the   dedicated line items now going into perpetuity  for determining that and so you will be able to   and they're working on what that looks like but  it'll be a I think a fairly simple application uh   process um and then we'll utilize those funds. So  I sorry to interrupt Commissioner Granger I would   encourage us to use some type of verification that  somebody already has. Um, and the only reason why   is when you get into income verification,  that's a that's a whole another thing,   but there's lots of things that you go through  for income verification. So, I don't I I don't   know what that answers. The Boys and Girls Club  uses it and they have no problem admitting people   in that have sliding scales. So, what what are we  trying to reinvent the wheel? I mean, to me, it   that's not complicated. It's being used somewhere  in town. Can we model that? Is that possible?   Actually the city also uh in the housing and  community services has to income verify for some   of its HUD programs. So uh there is you know it  is being done by city staff. Um and uh and I would   also contend that for the scholarship there has  to be some sort of verification involved with that   as well. Um and then in speaking with uh Mr. from  Maryland. I asked if in his past had he been over   a department that had this kind of an activity  go on and he said yes, he has. So, um, so there   there's that poss there's that possibility and the  the argument brought to the the by this community  

is the all or nothing zero or $100. And um and  yes, the scholarship um has been approved. Uh   we're awaiting uh the uh steps and procedures from  legal so that that can be ready um to go as well.   Will that mean will that mean enterprise fund? We  don't need to mix all this in general fund. No,   this is Oh, I'm sorry. This is a separate uh not  for-profit agency that the city operates. Are you   asking about fees in general? Right. Let's say  that I'm I'm going to leave that money. That's   income fees coming in from this. Where where where  are all these fees going? To the general fund or   to MLK? General fund. Okay. Let's make that be a  special fund for MLK or that all the money that   comes for spending for I think I understand what  you're getting at and I support it. Uh, I think   an easier method for the clerk in her office  would be to um mark that that money that comes   in to be to be used for just an it would just be  an account, not a fund. But yeah, we can we can   definitely you know until I understand how budget  budgeting better, it makes me feel better to know   it's outside general fund. No, it's it's still in  the general fund for the rest of my life. I don't   because the MLK rec center is in the general fund.  So the revenue will go into the general fund,   but it will be once we create another fund, it  creates a lot more straight up stuff around that.   And and that is just not the juice is not worth  the squeeze on on we didn't do it for the fire   assessment. Like that's $6 million. And that  bothers me too. It does, right? That bothers   a lot of folks. Another way of thinking about it  is if in your own personal finances you set up   separate bank accounts for every special project  that you do or every vacation for instance and I   do it for different when I do my you know build  houses and stuff we each one has its own but but  

that's separate from my personal stuff. I think  overall though and I made this point um what was   if if the if any facility has a certain dollar  amount that's associated within with an expense   um until that facility brings in more money than  the expense then it it it's kind of a a moot point   anyway. Um because if it's is if it there's more  money coming out of the general fund than is going   in the general fund from whatever that thing is  or any fund for that matter then it doesn't really   matter if you market or not because does that  make sense? Yeah. Let me try to explain. A fund   has to be selfbalancing right. So if you opened up  a new fund for the MLK rec center the revenues are   never going to equal the expenses. then you're  going to have to show how much the general fund   is paying to support the MLK rec center. If  that's important for you to know that number,   well then but we have a savings account. Remember  four pages long savings account. So we're we   should be able to cover the expenses of the mar of  the MLK center based on what we passed. And we're   not borrowing from anywhere. We're paying we're  covering those expenses. the fees that are coming   in are not to pay those salaries and things like  that. Where does that money go? That's exactly   what that's what it pays for. Wait a minute.  We before we ever got to the fee structure,   we we we had a conversation. It was a tough  meeting about creating the savings account and   it was we were going to find money on how to pay  the employees. Y'all not remember that meeting?   And it had nothing to do with the fees. Now, I'm  not talking about these fees. I'm talking about uh   the fees come in from the sporting events and  clubs and all that. Where is that programming   like parks, culture and recreation? Okay. It  pays to support that. Okay. Did we factor that  

in? We had no numbers when we factored that in to  operate MLK. We went from one uh budgeted employee   to 19 or something. Now, how did that work? It  sounds like you're asking when we came up with   the staffing requirements, did we factor and we  had those expenses, did we factor in possible   revenue from membership 10fold and and I thought  the conversation was not following that. It was   we're we have the money, we're going to find it  somewhere in here in our budget and we're going to   pay for that. My understanding was the I have not  seen a projection. There was no projection that   I've seen of like we got to find a fee structure  to get to X number. it was just a fee structure to   supplement the the cost of running that amazing  facility. Um, so I think as we in the next six   months, we're going to be reviewing what we've  what what's come in, what's its cost, and we're   super early. If this was a business, we'd have  done, you know, if this was a business, we've done   all the projections before you built the thing.  Um, but, you know, this doesn't operate like a   business. You know, there's things that cost us  money that we'll never actually fully cover. And,   um, and so, um, a lot of great conversation  with with Mr. Dossi and and Mr. Walker this   weekend over the the fees. Um the sliding scale  is very interesting. Um and I like the idea   of us not having to do it. I love the idea that  potentially it could be a volunteer once a month   the volunteers come in and they process those the  sliding scale where it's involved in something. I   love the more the more we engage the community. We  talked about even having uh Scoop and a few people   be mentor a mentor program um there and so the  more we getting them involved and people that want   to help. I think that's great. Yeah. And and what  I would say is what you'll find and we experience   this in housing is some people don't have their  most recent taxes. Sometimes people will. So if   you set up a committee that's responsible of  like you will administrate these these these  

scholarship funds that seems like a very a very  easy process to me that could accomplish what's   being what needs to be accomplished. And let's  make that board be a people that are for there   for sure inside the building. 100% 100%. And to  to add, there was even discussion about concerned   of we might get to in six months of certain  event types because there's a difference in a   fundraiser that has you know people hanging out  and and drinks and food versus a true community   event which is everyone sitting in chairs and  a presentation and there are times that the   community need to gather and there's no one to  cover a cost uh versus a ticketed event where   there's costing. So, we're going to we're going to  continue to work through these and and and what's   so strange about this job is we're disconnected  from the day-to-day and we set policy and I'm   always the bubble it up guy. And so, I want to  know in situations when we when when an event was   wanted to be hosted but didn't actually get hosted  because of cost. When did someone show up that   simply said, "I literally can't afford this and  the scholarships didn't apply." I want to solve   for those things so I understand when our policies  are failing the public. Um, so I'm I'm fine with   moving forward whatever Janice wants to do. I love  all these ideas and this is going to be iterative   of how we how we maintain the the facility and  and the fee structure. The only one thing I would   add is I know that there's different prices for  Panama City residents versus county residents or   other municipalities. The out of all the county,  there's only one MLK Junior Rec Center. And so if   another city wants to partner in some way to do  that and receive the same benefits as a rescal is not everybody's going to go build an MLK  rec center and I don't think they should and if   they're willing to contribute in the programming  that's happening there. citizens should enjoy the   benefits of that. Agree that we're just open  street that came up at one of the meetings  

that we allow a rate for Panama City and then for  anyone else in the county a special rate and then   for anybody else in the world a special rate.  Um and I asked then if uh they'd be willing to   go to the county commission and ask to support the  MLK Junior Rec Center. And so that recommendation   didn't come forward, but I think that there is  uh an appetite for doing something like that.   So um can go back to the first uh one please,  Donald. Yeah, I'm comfortable with what staff   has presented. I know they've worked uh quite a  bit on this and they they put a lot of time and   effort into this with input from the community.  Um I think this is one of those things where we   we probably need to move forward with this and  then adjust um as time moves on. Slide scale. You   want to slide the scale or no? I don't think that  I don't want to have personally I don't want to   create policy where we have um one of uh the PCR  employees trying to determine whether or not the   person in front of them should receive some sort  of benefit or not. Uh I like the idea of pushing   that to um a board volunteer board or I like all  those ideas. So I think that part of the thing I   think what what we then do is direct uh the city  manager to to work that out. But if we don't   approve it, then it doesn't get worked out. I just  don't want it to be on on this. Um I would say for   for additional benefits or something like that,  this is not going to be a this is not going to be   posted in the building. Like this is just meant  for us. Yeah. We've approved a scholarship and   it's not on this. And so I hear what you're saying  that this sliding scale we can approve it and then   direct staff how to implement it and and roll  it out. Yeah, that's fine. I just um I'm looking   at it from a from a perspective of when I had a  bunch of employees and I had to create standard   of operating procedures for these employees. You  want to keep them as simple as possible so that  

way you don't get into, you know, decision- making  where somebody's just like, you're not paying me   to make decisions. You're paying me to do these  things. and um and it puts them in a tough spot,   too. So, I I would say that we could pass this and  then say we would love a presentation that there's   a willingness to have a board that approves uh  the sliding scale that they the group can form and   present how they would do it to us and we could be  discussing that in two weeks or 30 days. And so,   you're you're you're going to talk about amending  the the whole thing again. start with something   as a this the sliding scale and put that in  bring it into the into the this document,   but you do that with the motion today. It's it's  not going to happen. You're not going to know the   sliding scale how it operates. You're just going  to know that it's part of this and it shows up   as part of the operation. Okay? So, as opposed  to coming back, we could pass it today and say   this sliding scale will not be done by our staff,  but by an advisory board if they stand themselves   up and give us a a frequency of how often they  would meet. Yeah, I think that should be two   separate motions. Okay. Yeah. I guess I I guess  my question would be more even to Nevin and Jan.   I mean, I don't know how you give non staff or  non-elected officials authority over fees that   are to be collected. So, that would kind of just  be something I would want to ask on the front end.   for example, anything that is used um for  the scholarship for the purposes out of the   um the PCCF uh that's going to come back to y'all  in a quarterly report as to the cash flow out for   that of the nonprofit and I believe y'all vote  to approve and accept that. So, I do think there   needs to be there'll be criteria there'll be some  criteria and everything like that. I I would love   for us to bring Mr. Myro up. He's got a lot of  history in this. Come on down. We were trying   to keep it as simple as possible. Hi Keith Meer,  director of PCR. Um, in my Sorry, I was just going  

to ask if you would share how this has been done  under your leadership in in other uh jurisdictions   that I've worked. It's u a wide range of areas  similar to what the ask is with the sliding scale.   Um, we've used poverty levels. We've used the u  we've used simple as if you're on free and reduced   lunch then you're automatically uh then you're  automatically qualified. So there's diff there are   different levels that we can do. Um the sliding  scale is one. Um as well as some of these other   measures. Yeah. See that that's exactly what I was  looking for. Something that's simple that doesn't   require staff to go verify income or things like  that. So you free reduced lunch whatever it is   from that standpoint. And I'm open to it. But  sliding scale gets you a number. Free and reduced   lunch. It's a set rate, right? Correct. Yeah.  So, are you comfortable with your employees doing   this? If it was a um designated employee maybe  down at the office um in city hall as opposed   at the rec center. Um but potentially if it was  a designated employee that would that would look   at that. More staff. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say  that because we do have employees that, you know,   I have a couple of admin assistants that that  could potentially fill that role and it can be   controlled. Doesn't have to be just 24 well not  24/7 because city hall isn't open 24/7. It could   be designated hours and days. It could be and  you could take the application at MLK but then   process it by that one individual. I don't have a  problem with sight and scale issue. It's just more   of functionally how does that work? you know,  if somebody just steps in the doors of the MLK   rec center and and you have your your reception  person there, that, you know, that's really where   I don't think that that should be patched out is  is the point because, right, um, now we're adding   a lot more to their point, right? What would be  the easiest way for us to frame like frame the   text that included it but gave Keith the option to  give us some ideas or how to bring it to us that  

open flexibility that we're asking for a sliding  fee sliding scale fee okay for staff to determine   it with the least amount of interaction by the  majority of the staff on personal information. Um,   I think we we trust the professional that we've  hired to hear what we've said here at the DES   today and as we make the policy and let them make  the uh management decisions about how to implement   it. So, I'll support that. I just would like it to  be two separate things so that staff understands   that it's two separate things and give them time  to work through that. Thank you, Mr. Mar. Were   there any other questions for you? So I I want to  say thank you to the uh community to everyone who   has come forward who has vo voiced their concerns  uh as we've moved toward uh this decision today.   Uh want to thank the staff uh under the leadership  of uh Mr. Hayes for what you've done and and   listening to the community and working with the  community. I have one suggestion to make um before   I move or include it in the move. I guess it  says visitors will not be charged to watch their   children play and I would say in a city sponsored  recreation basketball game practice or open gym   program. The reason I suggest that is I don't want  someone to interpret that if a tournament is going   on and their child is playing that they get to  come in free if if everybody else is paying. Okay.   Uh other than that, um I move that we approve  the recommendation coming from our staff with   community input and adding that uh staff add a  sliding fee scale under the parameters that we've   discussed here today. Do I have a second? Second.  Any discussion? Yeah, I really wish there were two   different um motions. What What would that do? It  allows it allows the staff the time allows us to  

continue to move forward with this and allows  the staff the time to work on work on that,   get that sorted out because they're likely going  to have to come back to us and and say, "Hey,   this is this is what we want to do. What do y'all  think?" And it causes this further delay. Well,   do No. Do we have to approve that? I mean, no,  we don't. That's management. That's not policy.   That's not us. Y'all do have to approve the fees,  though. Yes. Which is what I've just made a motion   to do. we approve the fees and we have to approve  the budget to absorb whatever costs are involved   in that. So it I'm comfortable with this from  the standpoint of you know it regardless we're   going to have to set a budget number to it. So  any other discussion? I do like the committee   idea. I' I'd just like to reiterate that.  Yeah, I think everything's a test and and   we see how much work it is for our for the  the staff and we can iterate on everything.   So, any other discussion? Please call the RO.  Commissioner Granger, yes. Commissioner Street,   yes. Commissioner Hughes, yes. Commissioner Lucas,  yes. Mayor Branch, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item   12B is consideration to approve budget amendment  resolution 20260210.2 two to utilize $116,382 in equipment use reimbursement funds  associated with the Panama City Police   Department's deployments in response to Hurricane  Helen and Hurricane Milton for the purchase of a   mobile command trailer for the Panama City Police  Department. Relevant background information is   enclosed in your packet. Staff recommendation  to the chief of police is that the commission   approve this request. Mr. Mayor motion to approve.  Wow. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion?   Please call the RO. Commissioner Granger, yes.  Commissioner Street, yes. Commissioner Hughes,   yes. Commissioner Lucas, yes. Mayor Branch, yes.  Motion passes 5-0. Now it's finally 12D, I think.  

12. 12D. Nope. Mr. Zimmerman's about to read  something. Yes. For 12 A. I have a resolution. I don't see it. 12 A. 12 A. Do you see a resol? Is there a resolution?  You want me to read it? Yeah. Are you serious?   12B. Sorry. 12B. Okay. There we go. Sorry.  He's got it. Resolution number 2026210.2,   a resolution providing for the amendment  of the approved fiscal year 2526 budget   to accept and expend funds received from  the employment of the police department   during hurricane Seline and Milton.  12C was moved to the end. So item 12D   is consideration of approval to award bid  PC26-015 and contract for a CDBGDR project   area known as area O2 in the downtown area  of Panama City in the amount of 2,27,3921 with a 5% contingency to total $2,128,76161 to Royal American Construction Company.  This project involves the replacement of   approximately 2,845 linear feet of  water line, 241 ft of sewer line,   and 641 uh 641 linear feet of sewer lining and  then 475 linear feet of storm water lines. This   project is again located in downtown Panama  City and involves work along Harmon Avenue,   Mackenzie Avenue, East 3rd Court, East 4th  Street, East Fifth Street, Mackenzie Alley,   McQuade Court, and Justice Way. This project has  an ex uh expected duration of 300 days. Uh we did   have a competitive invitation to bid advertised  by the city to secure competitive bids for this   uh bid PC26-015. We received bids from Mainline  Construction, ECSC LLC, GF Coast Utility  

Contractors, American Sand and Asphalt Paving,  CBC Construction, A50 Construction, CW Roberts   Constructing, uh, Contracting Rather, and Royal  American Construction Company with Royal American   Construction being the lowest and responsive  bidder in the proposed amount of $2,27,3921. Staff recommendation through the director of  public works is that the commission approve   this request. Mr. Mayor, do we have a motion  to approve? Motion to approve. Have a second.   Second. Any discussion? Please call the role.  Commissioner Granger. Yes. Commissioner Street.   Yes. Commissioner Hughes? Yes. Commissioner  Lucas? Yes. Mayor Branch? Yes. Motion passes 5. Yes, sir. the the item that I had which uh I'm  not requesting any action on but I just did want   to briefly mention it's a um a letter where I  submitted the invoice that had been submitted   from City Marina Partners LLC. No, my apologies,  Mr. Zimmerman. I thought there was a resolution   that needed to be added for that and they're just  not for the prior thing. Uh we actually the St.   Andrews um soccer club is I think ahead of the um  Got it. is ahead of the the down. We're going to   end with the downtown marina conversation today. I  believe that was the modification that was made. I   apologize. I thought there was a budget resolution  for the CDBGDR project downtown. There's not. So,   we are now moving into and I'm not really sure  what item it is. The way everything shuffled   around. Madame clerk, if you could clarify, but  it is the San Andrew soccer club request of use.   It should be 12. Did you want to do projects and  efforts first? Um, yeah, we can just do that. I   guess that's um that would be easier for us. Yeah,  that that's that's really no action. That's just   something that that I that's information. But  I did, you know, I indicated that um you know,   at one of the last meetings at the first meeting  of every month, we're going to provide some of  

this information. And I just realized kind of  quoting, you know, one of the one of the bosses   that I had in my years in DC that, you know, if  you're not keeping score, it's hard to know you're   winning. And so this was just a point uh to really  show the public and the commission everything that   our staff does uh every uh you know every month  here. Uh in fact I know that our team last night   over near 17th uh in Hickory in that area we had  a a communications contractor bore through a water   man and the guys were out till 3:00 a.m. uh to get  that back online with an emergency part shipped in   from Montgomery. So uh and then I know there was  comments made about you know we ignore water leaks   yet if you look we repaired 350 water leaks even  through the month of December. So our team works   7 days a week uh to address the many issues and  so uh these are just a report we're going to show   and in addition if there is a specific project uh  that the commission would like to get an update on   you know please share with us that in advance of  you know the two weeks of that first meeting every   month and we will dedicate kind of the last item  under the city manager section to provide this   information but also provide updates say like  on you know the water meter replacements or you   know a design of a particular major project uh in  your ward where you would like to be able to have   a conversation publicly about that with some of  your colleagues which you know you're not allowed   to do in private. So that's the purpose of this  and I I've already received since this was made   public last week I've already received comments  from a couple of you how much you appreciate this   information and look forward to seeing it on  a regular basis as part of our mission. So Mr.   Mayor, I would like to add my commendations  to others that have been offered privately.   This is the kind of metrics that um helps us not  only as the uh commissioners and the mayor but the   citizens to understand the vastness of the work  that is going on in our community. I would ask   that we um add a number of employees uh in light  of our discussion at the virtual workshop. the  

area going forward as we look at the 2627 fiscal  budget that we're where we're going to find the   uh the funds to recover our reserve will  be in looking at personnel and so I think   uh having that reflected in each of these areas  of personnel particularly who are funded through   the general funds we can do we'll break  it down by uh by both fund and uh by by   department thank you yes ma'am right if there's  No other questions. And that would move us into   the item that was added regarding the San Andrew  soccer club's request uh of use of Oakrove Field   at um Robert Mary Kane Park uh in central Panama  City. Uh as you all are aware, this came up at the   um uh town hall on Saturday morning and and y'all  requested that it be added here. Um given some   additional information that we have obtained,  uh I did circulate yesterday a memo uh from Mr.   My uh just kind of recapping uh everything uh that  has transpired um over the last five or six weeks   regarding this effort uh specifically uh in his  time since joining the uh joining the city. And   so uh you do have the request here uh that was  put here. Um again uh in in brief summary um we   do desire to have Frank Nelson Park kind of become  the soccer capital of Panama City. Uh but Mr. Mar   and his team need a little bit more time to get  that field where it needs to be. Um he's hoping   to have it by the fall. Um and that's a very high  possibility, but it will definitely be ready for   next spring. Uh so they will focus on those  efforts, but you know, the field maintenance   of that level is not really something that you  can necessarily rush or force along. Um we did   um uh have him meet and walk the field uh with the  representatives from the Senator Soccer Club. And   we did and working with Commissioner Lucas and  myself and representatives from the community  

uh signed them up for some practice uh which was  February 3rd, 5th, 10th, and 12th. One of those   days they weren't able to use because of of of  rain. Um but there is an ask now for the spring   season uh which would start February 17th and  run through May 14th of this year. Um we do have   uh fees that were available and I believe that Mr.  Marl has both an application for the practices and   for the league itself or the season rather which  again would be February 17th through May 14th.   Um and you know we have conditions uh or we  have fees in place uh really to um effectuate   the use of that field absent from commission  action. Um but they are asking for a reduction   uh of those fees and consideration of that. So  I don't know Mr. Mile if there's anything you   wanted to add to that. I know you've been much  more involved in this than I have sir. Yes sir.   um to the commission, the the ask is for Tuesdays,  Thursdays from 5:00 to 8 for those practice dates.   U those would be the practice nights that they're  asking um for use of on the application. And that   would include the season as well, the Tuesday and  Thursday 5 to 8. Tuesday, Thursday 5 to 8 through   the middle of May. And is that are they renting  the field or is that where they're asking for the   uh relief in the money? Are they renting the field  for those? That's that's what that's I guess think   that's what the the ask is today for that to be  evated. Correct. Okay. Yes. It's $25 an hour um   for the use of that field. Okay. If it remains  with staff, sorry, if it remains with staff,   we have no choice but to collect those fees.  Only the commission can wave any fees like   that. So So is that a reduced rate? That's a a  field rental rate. There is a technically a a   club rate which is $30 an hour. So this would be  25 is what we charged them for the last two weeks.   So technically the soccer club is a club and  would we the $25 is already a discounted rate  

is what I'm at. If one was to define them as  a club yes that is correct. Yes. Okay. So I   think the question before us gentlemen is given  the um whether the soccer club uh in its um the   way it's it's formally organized should be given  further reduction of uh of fees. Uh there's a lot   been that's been talked about and um the uh issue  before us today is do we res do we further reduce   the fees for a club uh that operates as a travel  club and not as a community-based organization?   And um my contention is no, we do not. Um but  that's why we're here to hear from everyone else.   So, I have a question. Yes. You've walked Nelson  View. Yes, sir. You going to You going to dig   it all up, churn it up? Long term, that would  be that would be the solution. Um, shortterm,   we we could do some uh basically grading, light  grading of the spots that are low and add some   fill and do some overseating. But longterm, the  solution would be to resold it. Yes, sir. So,   if we're going to turn this into a soccer field,  are we going to run into this problem again?   somebody wants to use it for football or somebody  wants to use it. Now, I get this is coming what's   come out of this is we have zero dedicated soccer  field in this town. So, if we're going to do that,   we all have to commit that this is not going  to be used as any because he's going to put   a lot of time in it and that that field has to be  has to be flat. Um, is that going to be a problem   cuz it's in somebody else's ward and they're  going to be getting, you know, getting pushed   on. But at the same time, we need it. I mean,  I thought we already made that decision. Well,   so that's we named it after a soccer group.  I mean, I thought that was our Now, I'm not  

saying if somebody said nobody else could play on  all of the fields, if that wouldn't be an issue,   but I think having a dedicated field is absolutely  reasonable. All right. So, have you established   a timeline on the the short-term fix versus the  long-term fix? To Mr. Hayes's point, it would be   spring for the short term, fall for the for the  longer term. Spring has a lot of months in it.   I understand. Okay. Um, no, fall. this coming up  fall for the short term, but spring 2027 for the   long term. Okay. I I would to to Janice's point,  I I appreciate this the Hill um group brought this   as long as we're applying it uniformly. And so if  that means from this point forward that any 501c7   um will be charged, you know, whatever is being  charged here, I'm perfectly comfortable with that.   I don't know who that else it affects. I don't I  don't either. Um, so I have a question. Well, you   will. Are they a 501c3 or C7? Should that matter?  Um, the question I also have is, are we waving   fees for any other nonprofit regardless of three  or seven? Um, since since my coming to the city,   there are other groups that use facilities at no  charge. Um, I'm still kind of investigating what   that is and what the history of that is and when  that may have may have ended and when it had had   stopped. Um, so those there are those situations  that there are some organizations that aren't   being charged for field use. Um, but it if you go  back to the definition of some of these teams, if   they're community- based versus a club team versus  a community program, um, that could potentially   weigh in as to why some some organizations  may or may not be charged. I'd rather ask to  

be standardized as well to support that. I mean,  if if I don't want to get into whether or not a   a nonprofit benefits a certain percentage to  the city or doesn't, um, I would rather have   a a standard policy by which all nonprofits are  treated, whether they have zero or whether they   pay full price or a percentage. That's where I  would like to be. and and I can agree with you,   Commissioner Granger, on a standard um and  making the delineation between a travel club   and that pays its coaches and a community-based  organization that does not pay its coaches   uh I think is a distinction that that we need to  make and can set a policy standard moving forward   um that we address that. Yeah. Um I always apply  everything to the Glenwood Rattlers. Um we travel   u but how much do you get paid as a coach? zero.  It cost me money. Um I think that the paid staff   is a great way to do it. I'd be interested in  how other cities do it. Um you know, even if   you checked bank accounts, I mean, we raised  $30,000 for new helmets. So if you looked at   our bank statement right now, you'd say, "Oo, they  got lots of money." Uh and we really don't. And so   uh there are ways to get around the organization  paying their staffs. A parent pays that they form   another nonprofit. So I'm just interested in how  other places do it. Um it always is heartbreaking.   The idea that a child can't get into a park  is heartbreaking. The idea that they can't   participate is heartbreaking. The idea that a  nonprofit that hears the help can't operate if   it's all it's this is a tough job. And uh and so  I I'd love to see us uh work with this club and   and find them a better home and all the things  we're discussing. I totally agree. Yes. This is   a temporary solution. Temporary solution for this  spring. For this spring. For this spring. I don't   know. But they're going to Nelson Park for sure.  is that that's that's the when the conditions   improve to the point where they can get out there  and play safely. Has there been any conversation   about they could they could uh you when you go you  go get a uh Habitat for Humanity home, you put 500  

hours in. Okay. Has there been any conversation  about some you earning or you bringing that that   fee down by by doing by helping over there by  helping at at the park at the new park? They tried   that in their initial proposal. Okay. Didn't work.  Yeah. Okay. Sorry. The question was asked though,   and I don't know it. I'm not a tax attorney or  CPA, but I don't know. Miss Smith, what is the   difference between a C3 and a C7? Is there really  a I mean, we just got this. I'm not a tax attorney   either or tax. They're both considered nonprofits.  Just like how destination PI City is a 501c6. It's   a quasi governmental nonprofit. So, there's  different categories of nonprofits. And if we   want to regulate that, I I don't I think that's  fair. I just like to see it uniformly applied   across the board so that we don't have one feeling  that they're not benefiting from what somebody   else and I think up until this point there really  hasn't been a standard photo I hearing from Keith.   That's that's the way I understand it at least for  the last couple of years. So Mr. um manager. The   other part of the ask was for them to be able to  do organized play in a time called open play. Um   and as we're making a distinction and a standard  going forward, um what position does that put   us in as a city to have organized play going on  in a nonpermitted way? in a non so if they have   Tuesdays and Thursdays but they want to do they  want to coordinate open play for their team open   to the community say on a Monday or Wednesday then  then anybody would be able to come on the field   and and join is and that I mean I that's what's  been communicated to me on the Mondays I think   originally we were talking about maybe even having  four days of stuff when this very first started   even before you joined the city and now we're down  to just the two days specifically for this spring  

for both the practices and then the games. But  on Monday, uh I I take them at their word that   that would be open play would be exactly that. It  would be open play. So what does that uh do as a   standard where um any organization in the city  can go and advertise we're going to do open play   um without going through our permitting process.  Well, I think they're going through the process   for that. That's so I'll give you an example. go  by Daffin Park even in they'll be one coach with   four kids and they're having an unofficial  practice where they're just playing catch   and stuff and we haven't had the situation where  where people come out and they try to like force   themselves on the field. So I don't know how  to deal with that either. It's you know what   is a gathering of people with a coach? Is it  unofficial? Is it just playing catch? You know   how do we regulate that? I don't I don't know  how to do that. We implemented I will I'll give   you some feedback. we implemented back in 2122  um unbeknownst to the commission staff made the   decision to lock the parks when there was no  organized sparks associated with them. Uh that   went over like a leg. So there was a lot of I'm  not suggesting that. I'm just saying while we're   talking about standards and procedures, you know,  a coaching four kids versus all 200 of them. Yeah. Yeah, I was really looking more for a standard  on how we treat organizations and their fees   and this is part of that and not necessarily try  to get in policing who's on the field and who's   not on the field. Um so, uh I think we've heard  that there's organizations that we don't charge   and maybe we should. Um I don't know what  those organizations are. It doesn't sound   like you want to speak with that right now. I'm  not asking you to. Um so I'm I'm fine with them.   us waving the fees moving forward um for  them to to temporarily use this until Frank  

Nelson is ready. You got a motion? Sure.  I'll motion. Yeah. Motion that we we move   forward from waving fees. Okay. We've got  a motion on the table. Do we have a second? I'll second so we can discuss and figure out how  to move forward. No fees. No fees. Take it away.   Do you want me to discuss it? I mean, I just want  it applied how it's applied everywhere else. Yeah.   So, that that I mean, that's the Have we done this  before? Yeah. I don't think we're doing it now.   Let me Let me ask this question. Jonathan, you  said that there's no way for staff to wave fees,   but it sounds like from what Keith just said,  there are organizations that have fees waved   that I don't know about. Yeah. I've recently  become aware that the uh that the group at the   uh um Daffen Park So, shouldn't you guys fix that  before bringing us this oneoff thing? Shouldn't   that be addressed before we start trying to  address it with one singular organization? We keep talking about one club, but we say there  are several that are not paying fees. Who are   they? Who's not paying fees in the city? Current  currently there there is an off season. So,   we are getting the our applications to these  other groups and we'll be evaluating what their   acts are as we receive them. So, we are working  with the commissioners or the the the league   representatives from some of these other teams  um to get them the application similar to what   we sent to St. Andrew Cyber Club and we will  be evaluating reviewing those as a receipt.   We haven't received any yet uh to date. Um and  there's there's not any practices um occurring   that I'm aware of um that are that are organized.  So, this would be a good time to set a policy   when we currently don't have anyone who falls  into this category. Correct. Going forward,   CLA uh staff would have clear direction from this  body. Correct. Has somebody made an application  

you that said we've always gotten it free. We're  just this year I'm going to ask for the same   thing. We have not received any any to that degree  other than the St. Andrew Soccer Club application   that I'm that I've received. And if we had that  would come to the commission. That's the direction   we have. Yes. So I think the question before us  now is do we continue the precedent that we're   all saying we don't want to continue and set a  standard that the staff can clearly follow? Yeah.   modify my motion to include that we push back to  staff and come up with a a schedule of fees uh   to be implemented in uh uh in the future. They're  asking for like 40 grand a lot. They're asking for   $40,000. That that proposal is off the table,  right? Just for the hours of of of practice.   So we're we're talking about 5 to8 $75 $150 a  week. 600 above from February 17 through May 14,   I think. Yep. I'm fine with that. But I  would like to have next agenda everybody   that's using our fields so that we know who's  getting waved and who's not so that there can   either be an permission of staff is executed  the way that this policy is stated it is now.   um or there's been something else. I don't need to  know how it ended up that way. I just need us to   fix it so it's standardized and um and everyone's  being treated the same way. That's basically Yes,   that's fine. If if if it is everybody is  saying, "Hey, we want to charge people fees,   so everybody should charge be charged fees." I  mean, that's the reality. I mean, we've got them   on the books. So, so that at some point in the  past this city created this beef structure and   somewhere along the way path uh it it changed  and so I want a fair structure for everyone.  

said from the beginning looking for a win-win for  community and for the soccer club and now for all   teams and sports so that you know it isn't one  person gets it or one club gets it or one team   gets it and the others don't just depending on who  they ask when they ask I think we're going to find   most um organized sports organizations are 501c7s  if I had to guess but I could be wrong I I don't   know that because I don't do it but if that's the  standard that we're going to set, then everybody   should be treated the same. So, this ask is about  $1,000 is what it looks like. I don't think there   should be an elimination between between the  two. If they're nonprofit, they're nonprofit.   There should be a rate of nonprofit. You got  to talk. Yeah, I didn't hear you. I couldn't   hear you, sir. I'm sorry. Um, so yeah, I don't I I  personally don't care about the difference between   a C3 and a C7. I would want to see a standard rate  for all nonprofits, period. like we're going to   treat all of them the same regardless of of what  how they tag themselves is for their benefit, but   that doesn't m that doesn't matter to us. Yeah,  I agree. Yeah. Um so yeah, I would I would amend   my motion to support that uh we have a report back  from staff on who is using uh the fields and um do   you wanted to have numbers attached to that like  who's not paying names of organizations? I mean,   I'm only aware of of the Rattlers and and I think  it's mostly for practice. I don't I don't believe   there's organized league there, is there? Not  right now. The problem is is you get into you get   into how many people are on the field and who's  there and is it organized? Is it not organized?   And I don't think that we necessarily need to  to to decide all those things. Um I think that   that's something that you and your office can can  handle. My attitude is the a park that is unused   is is useless to anyone. Agreed. And so I think  we should encourage people to do sports. Um now  

you know what that fee structure looks like. I'm  open to discussing whatever it needs to be, but I   would like everybody to be on the same footing.  So I'll second your motion. Thank you. So just   to clarify the motion, Jane, Miss Smith, can you  clarify the motion? I can't. Dorian, can you Oh,   boy. It's changed about three times. It's changed.  All right. So, let me try to simplify it. Um due   to the fact that we have organizations now that  are not paying the city of Panama City um to for   use of fields I will motion that we u move forward  with the uh fee waiver for this temporary solution and that staff brings back uh what they feel  would be a good standard for all nonprofits moving   forward that they would also be under the subject  to when they move. Um, and that staff also brings   back a report on all organizations that are using  our fields and how much they are paying. Could I   request that be the March 10th meeting? I  think with the holiday weekend coming up,   it's going to be kind of tight to get all that. I  just want to make sure. And I think one of you is   out for the next meeting. The March 10th meeting  be okay in one month. Due by March 10th. Good. We   have a motion. We have a second. for you to give  a second. So given everything that's brought us to   this point, I um as a nonprofit director know that  uh there are nonprofits that are very different   in their scope uh in their mission and in their  budget. And so that's what I think we find here.   If we want to compare a community-based uh  Glennwood Rattlers, since we've been calling   the name, with a travel club um that pays its  coaches while the Glenwood Rattlers does not.  

The volunteers, coaches, parents support  the teams. I don't think those are apples   and apples. Uh they are two distinctly different  organizations. And so just as we would look at   um the differences between a small business and  one that is a multi-million dollar business. I   think that's the distinction uh that that we have  here in front of us. I think I have a compromise.   Okay. What if we move forward? They're okay paying  the costs, renting the costs currently. And then   we as we move forward and get the new information,  they then can have the new fees applied or not   applied to whatever the staff finds and we pass.  So they're they're paying to rent it and then but   they may change according to what staff comes up  with. We're trying to like make the sausage up   here. I don't know the difference in all these  nonprofits. I don't right. And so it's kind of   tough for us. I what I hear is a willingness  as a for staff to go research it and bring it   back and I don't want to make all the sausage  on the dice. So, kind of moving forward with   the rental costs subject to be changed with  whatever Keith and the team bring back and we   decide we want to move forward with. And it hits  a need that they have on on practice and it keeps   uh keeps us moving and this body does not  perpetuate waving fees without having studied it,   which is what we're asking to do. Well, I just  want everybody to be treated equally. That's all   I'm looking for. And if we have an organization  that is not paying fees, then I feel it the right   thing to do to not charge fees if an organization  comes to us until we get this squared away and   then every organization is pay paying fees.  That's where I'm at with it. So with the fees,   I think it'd be easier to instead of instead  of going and trying to wave fees for everybody   else and we don't know who's paying fees, who's  not paying fees, let's go ahead and let them pay  

the 150 bucks of whatever it is and then we can  adjust in a month. make it to where they're uh Mr. Mayor, I call the question. Okay,  please call the RO. Commissioner Granger,   yes. Commissioner Street,  yes. Commissioner Hughes,   yes. Commissioner Lucas, no. Mayor  Branch, yes. Motion passes 4 to one. All right. Uh we are now on with um the two items  uh regarding the downtown marina. So, the first   one up I believe we're going to discuss uh and  then potentially uh bring it back at the next   meeting. Um this is the reimburseable design and  permitting cost uh reimburseable to City Marina   Partners. Uh you have a letter in here under item  uh originally item 12 C provided by Mr. Zimmerman.   Uh and I along with a invoice for $98,163 and I  would defer to uh Mr. Zimmerman to continue this   item. The uh I was thinking this was all this was  connected to the next item, but it is by itself.   So I believe there's no action. I'm requesting  that you allow me to take the feedback I've   received from commissioners and uh go back and uh  provide additional information and bring this back   at a subsequent meeting. So that's really all my  requests. No particular action is required of you.   No action just means that I'll bring it back.  Is that okay? Um what has been brought to you   by the commissioners? This is the only chance we  know. Well, I mean I there I was given this and   not I didn't talk about it though right there. The  feedback is well the mayor gave uh some feedback   and it was in a email this morning and Jonathan  spot. Yep. distributed. That's the main PE but  

but I've had you know verbal feedback as well on  on the reasonleness of the cost was one thing.   Another was are is everything really connected  to what the items that can be reimbursed and the   items that are reimbursible are related to design  efforts as well as permitting efforts. And so   that's some of those items are getting additional  information, allowing me time to go back and talk   to u uh CMP. I did talk to Mr. Harrison early  this morning and indicated that uh I would be   requesting that the commissioners not take action  today and give me an opportunity to go back. I'd   like for us to make sure that we get this done.  Let's not keep kicking this can down the road.   We got we got other expenses we got to worry about  down there. Let's get this one off the plate right   before we start talking big numbers, please.  Yes, that that's it. Thank you. I'm done. All   right. And then uh item 12E is um the estimate and  update estimate of probable cost for the first uh   50 slips and a potential phasing approach for the  full buildout of the downtown Panama City Marina.   Uh just a quick uh recap, the public works team  was asked to prepare an estimate of probable costs   associated with the uh needed infrastructure for  the first 50 wet slips in the downtown marina in   the west basin. In addition, uh we were asked  to propose feasible phasing approach that will   deliver the full buildout of the marina with  a reasonable incremental approach. Given that   design drawings uh have not been completed,  although they are at 95%, this cost assessment   was developed utilizing unit cost data. Uh  due to the lack of full design drawings, a 10%   contingency was added to each of the mo uh major  project components beyond the first 50 slips.   Um prominade breakwater extension and the west  basin upland parking and green space improvements  

electrical sewer water infrastructure groupings  is outlined in the estimate in both table one   uh and table two within this memo. Uh just as  a also kind of a quick update and reminder. So,   you know, uh the commission did um around two  years ago authorize uh the St. Joe Company to   uh move forward with the design uh of full design  of both basins uh not to exceed $450,000. Uh the   St. Joe company did do that and they uh utilized  Terrell Hall and Associates and uh Todd Terrell is   actually here today uh the primary design engineer  for this project. He's available to answer any   questions during this time of deliberation um with  the commission and staff on this. But uh we did   uh some of the staff did meet with him yesterday  and uh we are are really close uh and and nearly   ready to uh to go to bid uh once we kind of get  that final thumbs up uh from the commission on   the first uh 50 slips in that West Basin. uh  and then obviously deciding how we move forward   uh regarding the necessary support infrastructure  that would go along with that is also a topic of   conversation. So uh you have the memorandum uh  from uh the public works team uh looking at all   the necessary support infrastructure that would go  into uh building and supporting uh a particular um   marina setup. You have the phases approaches uh in  figure one uh and then a breakdown cost analysis   uh pretty detailed as table two. And so uh again  um happy to answer any questions but uh we are uh   we are ready to move forward and and go to bid uh  in the very near future on those first uh group   of slips uh provided a level of of comfort and  and continued readiness from this body. So, so,   uh, Jonathan, who keeps asking, it says in here,  we were asked, who keeps asking public works to  

create estimates? Well, I mean, this was the one  ask from, I don't know, several months ago. Who   keeps asking to put numbers together, publicly  numbers together for this? I'm not I mean,   the commission has asked for for We're not going  to build this. We're going to put it out to   bid. We're putting public numbers out there,  right? Okay. We're setting the floor. Okay.   who keeps asking for these numbers from from  Clint so that we can have these conversations   publicly so because we are we getting the cart  before the horse when we go out publicly now we   know the number okay is that good for the city who  keeps asking Clint to do that is that you I mean   I've asked him and I've had to ask the process of  what it does potentially for the bid to the bid   process I'm I'm still not following I mean Yeah,  that's those are good questions. Uh but that's the   process that the city always uses for uh asphalt  paving projects, water and sewer projects. There's   always a cost estimate. No, sir. He told us it  was going to be an invitation to bid and it was   going to be plans only and they we were going to  learn the number from the contractors. That's what   Jonathan told us. There was no necess there there  was no need to have a cost estimate. We can do one   afterwards to make sure to see if there if it was  spot on. Okay. Well, we do engineering estimates   on every project, Commissioner, and we have the  four years I've been back with the city. Every I'm   telling you, every major infrastructure project  has an engineering cost estimate. That's standard   practice in this industry. So, but then the actual  bid is what comes back from the contractor. And   and when you put out a bid, when you put out an  RFP to build a road, you tell them what the number   is. You've already done the engineering. There's a  cost estimate. There's a cost estimate associated   with it. Yes, sir. Yeah. Otherwise, we don't know  whether or not we can go forward. I mean, if I  

know a project is $7 million and we don't have the  budget for it, I'm not going to go to bid on it.   I I think there's always an engineering estimate  here. If it's reimburseable through FEMA, we got   we got the money here in the in the $150 million  loan. We got the money. So, let's take that aside.   Why are we setting a number to give to a  contractor to hit? That's the floor. Does   that make sense? The number's only going to go  up. No, I we've seen we've seen them come in well   underneath the engineering estimate, sir. Yeah.  Yeah. But but it's because I need to plan out a   massive project. So, I need to know, okay, I've  got $106 million with SRF as an example. I need   to know what the engineering estimates are year  couple of years in advance of that so that we   can plan it and yeah that that data is out there  but I've seen engineering estimates at three and   a half million but contractor comes in and bids  two and a half million that's great I've seen   them be engineering estimate at 3.5 million and  it come in at 4.2 too. That happens. But I have   an engineering estimate because I need to know  what the scope of the project is and what it   will approximately cost me so I can plan out my  resources and so that both senior staff and the   elected officials know potentially what's in front  of us and as we plan out the scope. Yeah. Okay.   Except for we've set up two times in this bid the  same thing that happened at St. Andrews. You have   no bids for $4.2 million for the for the uh uh  for the slips. You trust that it's the engineers   and the designers from St. Joe that says it's  okay. Just like we trusted our staff in Gorman   with 12.9, it's going to go up. We don't have  any plans for the utilities. We trust they're   going to be okay because we have some design work  for over here. We don't have any plans. Why are we   bit Why are we putting numbers together on plans?  We just went through the exercise of we it's going  

up because we didn't have any plans. My concern  is why do we not design the plans first to work   off of to give us a cost estimate if we're going  to design them? I I'm also concerned that there's   some some movement and try to get the city in here  to do the the construction and all that and that   that would be a I'll I'll stand at the top of  the mountain and fight that one. But it it is   it's concerning to me that that's the operation.  If that's the way it is, the way it's always been,   that seems to be the answer. But that's concerning  that we're giving away the answer up front. Is   does that I I would think that each one of y'all  would want to know approximately what what the   cost is going to be in order to move this project  forward whether we try to take on certain scopes   of it as a city or as we if we look to do P3s. I I  think I've been begging for it. I've been begging   for it. Okay. But this is a number that's created  without set plans and this is no slam on Clint.   I think he did an incredible job. Okay. with no  plans. Okay. So, here we are again. Is it a number   that we trust? Hey, great. It's a it's a big  number. Y'all don't like it, but it's something   that we have to we have to accept because of  that 3-2 vote. We are in place right here that   we have to plan as though that we're going to  pay for this. We don't have a partner. And so,   I want to make sure that we don't find ourselves  a few months down the road going, "Well, I mean,   we didn't have any plans." And so we're going  to have to we're going to have to back out what   we don't have, what we can't afford. And here we  are again. And now we're in the same spot. Okay,   that's my concern. Yeah, understood. I think  it's Clint Murphy, director of public works.   I think it's important to note the cost estimate  I put together is a unit cost estimate. So I'm   looking at more from the material side and what  it costs to get that material there. When a   contractor breaks down the price, they're going to  be looking at labor rates which they keep close to  

the best uh equipment, different construction  methodologies that might save them money. So,   it's really this is my best assessment on what  it would likely cost, but they're not going to   use this as the basis for their bid. And you did  a great job. This is a great job. This is about   process here versus your your your ability. And  what you just said is going to definitely go up.   Yeah. So, and again, I accept all that. I get that  about construction. I I was pretty conservative   with that estimate. It would not surprise me  if the price came in underneath that. Okay. So,   all right. I would say it's unusual to be like,  "How much does this cost?" And we are that is   unusual from coming from the private sector. And  so, I I I will acknowledge that this is just like   I don't agree that when I sell your house, they  get the appraiser gets a copy of the contract. Why   does he get to know what the number is? His job  is to establish a price. Sure. Sure. That's what   we're doing here is we're giving this answer away  up front. That may that may be the best method. I   don't know. But this morning was a great it  hit me this morning was a great exercise and   we're doing the same thing again. Agreed. I don't  want to get into uh uh getting numbers that feel   firm that are not no plans behind it because  you don't really there's a lot of details up   for which means that we need the plans engineer  drawn and engineered for the utilities which are   included in this along with the the set of plans  that the uh design engineers from St. Joe all   that needs to be together that way we have the  right number. What do we need to decide today   related to this item? We're actually at the point  where we could turn in a permit application. So,   I would love to get approval to do that. And we'll  motion to approve permit application. Okay. Permit   for what? Well, to uh for clarity. So, we're ready  to go to bid on it's actually 44 slips. Um but to   go to bid on that and then immediately submit the  application for the permit for the full buildout,  

uh which is the recommendation of the design  engineer with Terrell Hall. Can we our permit   or we're allowed to go to bid with that with 44?  We don't have to change it because it has 50. No,   it actually Mr. Z can wait on that top of him.  Sorry, sir. That's fine. There. And and Mr.   Trell's here. And as far as any specific questions  on the permitting, what we have is a permit   exemption, right? And the permit exemption in the  narrative of the permit exemption is 44 slips. On   the drawing, it talked about a couple of layalong  or floating docks. Um, in follow-up conversations   with DP, they've indicated that the city that  permit exemption does not include the floating   docks and the city would have to come back. And  the floating docks are right along Harrison's as   well as Indigo and U. And Mr. Murphy's not here  today. Patrick Murphy. This Mr. Murphy is right   here. Patrick Murphy is not here. But it's my  understanding that you know St. Joe who hired   uh the the engineer who is here understands that  and u that is not anyway we cannot build those   two floating docks with the exemption according to  DP. So what would the first as far as what are we   doing here today? The first ask would be uh we're  prepared and uh Mr. Trail indicated within a few   days they would give us all the special conditions  for the bid specs and the 44 slips could be bid   out. Okay, that's that's really the the first  item. The second item that was mentioned is  

uh going ahead and filing for a permit for  the entire um u both basins both basins for   the entire marina uh and and Mr. Hall  can answer this much better than me,   but uh once you apply for all of it and get it and  it's based upon the plans that it's based upon the   uh 90% drawings that are pursuant to the concept  drawing concept that you've already approved,   it's much easier easier to make tweaks to an  existing permit than it is to get a new one. So in   other words, after the basin is built, um, which  is the western, southwest or northwestern basin   by Hotel Indigo, if there's a desire to change  anything on the other basin before it's built,   the permit is for 5 years. And uh, you'd have an  opportunity to come back and decide, you know,   based upon recommendations that something needs  to be different and that could be tweaked. And   that's much easier than waiting and not applying.  So, so the request is that under their St. Joe   u agreement, they believe they can go ahead and  and submit the application um and get that process   started. And the engine that makes all this  run, the utilities, where does that fit into   uh being submit engineered and submitted for bid?  Can I offer something? Yes, sir. Yeah. So, for me,   I love the idea of getting the first 44 slips out  to bid just so we can get a hard cost on that. Um,   we don't have to pull execute that. We can we  haven't figured out how we're going to pay for   that. Um, I'd like to get, uh, the other basin  permitted. Let's go and get that started. So,   like staff wants to do that. Um, and then, um,  I'd like to get more definitive information on   the FEMA money and start that discussion of how  that money gets spent. Where's the fastest way   to exit? 5 million. The 5 million. Correct. And so  that would that could be and then really we should  

be talking about the plans of what the utilities  are actually needed so that we can start getting   quotes on those. Well, I'm going to draw it. We  got that that part's the easy part actually of   what's needed. That's a known those are known  quantities. How I'll throw one at you. What   if we um go ahead, we have the the fully designed  set of plans for the boat ramp. In about 60 days,   we'll have the permit. What if we go ahead and put  that out for bid, tie it to the $150 million loan,   and let's go ahead and do the boat ramp. We're  going to need to do it. Why don't we go ahead   and have some activity down there? And it will  also delineate the east side of the of the   uh the marina of what's available for development,  and it gives us some activity down there. I am I   That's $2 million. We We were worried about $2  million earlier, but the $150 million loan is   only for reimburseable projects. Except for the  12.9 for the St. Andrews. I was about to say,   hold on a second. That's the only Why is that  an exception? Because the bank approved it.   All right. With with bank approval, how about  they we had uh subject to the bank approval. So,   you're never paying it back. Okay. Well, I think  they're paying 12. It's easier for them to believe   in 2.2 million coming back to 12.9. Uh but but now  now you can get some activity while you're waiting   on these other things. Actually, we would stop  activity because it would be under construction.   So, activity going No, no. Over there. Yeah. And  the program definitely needs to be worked on. I   don't know how high it is in the priority of of  what citizen I mean that there is acknowledgement   of Yeah. But people want slips and they want the  sidewalk and they want and I'd like to have that   be a whole separate discussion that we don't have  to bake today. We've got some certainty of putting   the 44 out to to bid and getting the permits  going on the next that seems pretty those could   be separate motions or or together. I don't really  Can I ask Michael a question? Sure. Mr. Fuller.

Nice big sigh. He's like, man, I almost made it  through the whole meeting. It's almost time from a   development order process and permitting process.  In order for us to get started on the slips,   what will you need from us? And and let me  start. Let me back up. The city is treated   the same way as everybody else. Correct.  We have to go through the development order   process just like everybody else. Yes or no?  I mean, I would assume so. Yes. All right. So,   if if if we have slips but we don't have  enough, does that get us a development   order if we don't have engineering for that? Is  that is there something that would keep us from   getting development order? Typically, we would  issue a development order for the entire thing,   the slips and the upland. Okay. So, that means  you would have both sets up and wet. Yeah. And I   think that's what his his bid showed included the  the slips and and the upland improvements. Yes,   sir. But what we're talking about now is sending  out the the the new design for bid on forbid and   we don't have the other engineered drawings for  the office. These are this is his his estimate.   So those can't go out for bid. So, I'm asking  is can if I can't get a development order to   move forward with my bid over here, how long  is that bid good for one while we're trying   to get the other so we can get the development  order and move forward by doing both? Because   that's what you're saying is you got to  have both, right? Something to consider. So, we have a Do we still have a motion on  the table? Is there a motion? No, I made one,   but I don't think I got second. Oh, what was  your motion? I motioned that we move forward   with the permitting process, but then Jonathan  interjected with we're ready to move forward. So,   let's just do it one at a time then. So, I  think let's move let's move forward with what   we have designed in the full permitting  process and move forward with the going  

out to bid on the on the 44 slips and the west  that are currently permit exempt. I'll second   that. Any discussion? Can we talk to the designer  before we heard? Absolutely. Come on down. Yes,   sir. All right. So the so the motion's to move  forward with the bid for the 44 slips and then   the permit for the and permit for the full and  permit for the full based upon almost afternoon. Hello. Yes, sir. You just give your name, title,  and organization for I don't normally wear a coat,   but I I was told to. Anyhow, my name's Todd  Terrell. I'm an ocean engineer. I uh um have   a company called Terrell Hall Associates. We  specialize in marinas. We do not do upland   engineering or architecture. We are marina guys.  So we're working all over the state, all over the   Caribbean. We probably got 20 marinas going right  now. We've been working on this marina for St. Joe   for gez like five years. Guess there's like seven  plans out there. Um and uh anyhow, but we uh are   we have a number a couple ocean engineers. We,  one of our senior engineers actually uh um grew   up here in Panama City and worked for Harder and  went on to Meisner Marine which was the biggest   marine construction company in the southeast  and he built the Appalacha Bridge in the Schwas   anyway. So we can we know how to to do you know  to watch construction. We don't do construction.   We hire guys like um you know Gorman he did a  good job for us over in the in Port St. Joe.   So um anyhow so I mean we're we're there um uh as  far as the design is concerned it's been through   all these different iterations. We um we we like  the mix of slips. Um we a lot of times we do   um uh you know um preparatory work. Uh we've just  gone done a slip analysis over in Pensacola. Uh  

we know what the market is in Port St. Joe. You're  in the middle, right? So, uh, and and you guys are   kind of trending towards what we're, you know,  we're doing down in South Florida in the Keys,   you know, it's moving towards, you know, bigger  boats, right? And it's also moving towards boats   that are on boat lifts. Um, people like that and  big ones, you know, like 40 and 50 foot ones. Um,   and the one thing to always remember as you look  at this plan is you can always put a smaller   boat and a bigger slip, but you cannot do the  reverse. So if you're going to if you're going   to air air on the side of big, right? So and  it isn't overly big. There isn't there's only   a couple of hundred foot slips. A lot of 40 30s  40s 50s. Uh and that and that's 40 and 50 foot   uh boat lift slips is are what sells out first  in most our marinas there. you know, you see I I   almost don't understand it still these four engine  things, but you know, it is what it is, you know,   and you got a a million dollar, you know, boat  that's 50 ft on a lift. Um, but you know, those   people, even though, you know, that maybe a lot  of people in Panama City don't have those boats,   just like they do in Port St. show those people  will come from, you know, wherever they're coming   from and they if they can afford a million dollar,  you know, uh, Freeman or something, they're going   to spend some money in town and maybe even to buy  a place here. So, we we think that that marinas   like this are um are drivers, you know, for the  economy. And I think you you guys probably agree.   I mean, you you need to get this going, right?  Um, we um um yeah, I I I guess I could go on. The   phasing I think is a really good idea though. You  know, you build part of it, you see what it is,   you know, you build the rest of that basin  maybe. Um, but we can't build the part up there,   you know, the floating dock up by the indigo and  stuff like that. Uh, until we get that breakwater  

in. I was here 3 weeks ago and that big cold front  came from and there's it looked like a it looked   like out of an ocean engineering textbook, you  know, with the wave reflection. the waves will   bounce off the walls and there was crossing seas  in there. I wouldn't want to be on a floating dock   uh with that. And if you did do a floating dock,  it's going to have to be a very big expensive   one compared to after you build the breakwater  and it can be a much more reasonable one. So,   I I would recommend waiting on that until um until  the breakwater's done. And I'd recommend with   moving ahead with uh permitting as soon as you can  cuz it's brutal. Um, you know, we my firm has a   has a permitting department that's ladies that  do biologists, you know, that do it. So, we're   we're good at doing it, but with all the federal  agencies that report to the core and it's just a   miserable process. So, the sooner the better, you  know, to get on with it. And then once you do the   um you know, the one basin um uh then you have  some data to adjust the other basin. And in our   plan on the other basin, every slip in there will  have the ability to put a boat lift if that's what   the demand shows. If it shows that we need just  wet slips, then then we don't put the lifts in.   So, we've we've designed this with flexibility.  It's it'll be safer than the the earlier marina.   We got another little breakwater section over by  the fuel dock, you know. So, I think it's I think   it's a really good good design. And as far as the  the time that it's taken to get here, I do a lot   of yacht clubs and some municipal and so it's it's  really not unusual, but at some point you just got   to pull the trigger and apply for the permit. So  I think that's where you're at. So if you could if   you made this into phases, you said phase one, no  breakwater, phase two needs a breakwater. Is that   correct? Yeah. Well, the breakwater Yeah. needs to  Yeah. That that would be part that's what we'd be  

applying for the permit, you know. No, it's not  in the special. It's not in the province. It's   not for the for Yeah, it's not in there for the  for anyway with it. In your exper What do you see   in absorption rates around the state on marinas  coming online? Are they filling up quick? Yeah.   I mean, it's it's unbelievable sometimes. I mean,  Port St. Joe's already got a a multi-year waiting   list and and that happens with a lot of them.  I mean they are in there right away cuz the   other a lot of times people worry about whe yach  clubs or municipal marinas is you spend all this   money building these fancy slips and oh my god is  anybody going to come you know and there's a lot   of people that used to be there that want to have  their same slip and there pay their same amount   but again it's been our experience that here they  come you know like fast and the 40 and 50 foot   slips you better get in line fast you know now the  second I say that that we'll have a depression or   something in Tish. But but I I I truly believe  that um this will be very successful just like   Port St. Joe and I don't know why it would be  any different and and I think I think Panama   City is a great place. So in your experience um  connect the engine I said the utilities we need   to have that needs to show up at the same time in  my opinion. Yeah. You believe in laying all of it   out now for the future. It's cheaper to do it that  way then piece meal it together and now you know   you know where your design is so you're stubbing  it out. Is that the path? Is that the path you   normally see? Yeah, I mean it's obviously up to  you. It's going to be you know you be a while in   the permitting and stuff but yeah I think getting  the in infrastructure done on the uplands is is is   is a good idea. We have given the city um the the  loads that are coming out of the marina, you know,   and all we really need is where where's the where  are we getting the electrical through the wall?   Where are we getting the water? Where are we  getting the fire? Where's that coming? And then  

you guys on the uplands, the civil engineers,  the city. Yeah, Bill here. Bring it to us. And Clint's um estimate here is reflective  of all of those things that all of those   utility connections that he's  talking about in the different   phases. He just connects right into  them on the water and the fire stands. Yep. Um do we have a 100% set of plans from Jim  yet? Basically 95. Yeah, we're at 95%. Yeah. On   the on the 44 slips. That's right. Yes. I told  Michael I said when I turn in the house plans   I got to be 100%. So this got to be 100%  for somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. No. Well,   I we we're at 95% cuz it was kind of pending this  meeting today. If you guys say go, it's it's 100%.   You know, unless somebody goes, you know, they  don't like it. Okay. Thank you. All right. So,   we have a motion on the table and a second to go  out to bid for 44 slips and go out for permitting   for the rest of the basins. Is that correct?  Yes. Any discussion? guys were missing the main   component. Why do why do you keep avoiding it? You  got to have the other part to make the in to make   the docks work. Why don't we address it now? We  can. Let's Can we go and pass this one and talk   about that in a second? Well, that's what you  tried that with Janice, too. Uh why why is it   so hard to to to accept? I got to have both. He  just he just told us he's bringing them to that   side of the wall and we got to come to this side  of the wall. I get that that's going to start   sooner. That's not the issue. The issue is putting  them out together gets us a number. Remember,   we're paying for it. We got to act like that.  We got to get a number out front and that gets   us a real number that's designed, engineered, and  bid. Tell me that's a bad idea. Please, I'd love  

Do we need plans for that? I'm happy to support  getting some plans, which is what you brought   up before. So, we have we're talking about some of  the concrete. We couldn't get bids until this last   gentleman completed his. I would I would think  that we need we need to not move forward without   them. One of the things we could consider um would  be for to do that design uh in house. We have the   capabilities to do that with the exception of  the electrical and nobody's going to do that,   right? But well, we've reached out to FPL FPL does  their own. Yeah. They also do engineering for your   project as well. Yeah. So, I I'm supportive  of getting that infrastructure. What that is,   whether it's all the slips or just the 44, but  seeing both the paths. Um, supportive of that. If   we need to do that in-house, I'm fine with that,  too. I don't think that should stop us from going   out to bid for 44 slips. We can certainly we can  certainly hold back the decision to move forward   with building the 44 slips. He's not going to  give us development order. So until we have that,   that's what he just told us. We don't get to move  forward without engineering and and slip. Did I   just understand you guys are doing the engineering  yourself? We can do that. Now we now I'm good. We   got we if we can get some engineering in in this  motion. So can I amend my motion to include having   the the city team move forward with engineering  on the infrastructure? Does that work? Yeah,   we would need to exclude the electrical because  we don't have that capable. Whatever you guys are   capable of doing. I'll second that. Okay.  Any discussion? Please call the question.   Please call the role. Commissioner Granger.  Yes. Commissioner Street. Yes. Commissioner   Hughes. Yes. Commissioner Lucas. Yes.  Mayor Branch. Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Believe that's it. Motion to adjourn.  Second. Please call the RO. Commissioner   Granger. Yes. Commissioner Street. Yes.  Commissioner Hughes. Yes. Commissioner  

Lucas. Yes. Mayor Branch. Yes. Motion  passes. 5-0. This meeting is adjourned.