Planning & Transportation Commission - Regular Meeting

Good job.

And now I'm going to hand it over to the project team.

Good afternoon. I'm Jill Gibbs. I'll be safe manner.

And again, what we're thinking about is those borders as well. to improve that productivity, which means that durations can be reduced. The more space you provide a contractor, the better the productivity, the shorter the duration. The less space you provide a contractor, the more complex it is, the less productive, and the longer the duration. So that's typically what we have seen in urban rail environments. All right, so in terms of the sheet plot, Because of the proximity of Meadow Drive and Charleston, we looked at, again, to look at how they could be constructed at the same time. When you're looking at constructing something at the same time, well, then the question becomes, all right, does the shoe fly tie in early or does it tie in later? And in this case, because of the improvements here at Charleston, there's an opportunity to be able to raise the track slightly there. and therefore be able to raise the road weight and be able to potentially work with the overall footprint. And so this shoot wide configuration that we explored allows for Charleston Road and Meadow Drive to be constructed at the same time. However, this does mean that those tracks are into Dallas Street. And so we do have a board and we can walk through that as to what it means to be able to construct a shoot fly into that space and what we were exploring in terms of the ability to do so. And this is not just taps. This is also, remember, CalTrain has fencing electrifying the rail. So we have to be able to handle electrification of those tracks to be able to allow for safe operation through there. All right. So I'd like to say it's a big reveal right away. I just want to give you a bit of context with regards to total project cost estimates and how we approach these to be able to provide a new systematic context data. So there we go. We looked at several scenarios. As I mentioned earlier, Churchill and Seal had been looked at as one project. We looked at Meadow and Charleston crossings being concurrently constructed. It means someone at the same time. Now I don't say exactly at the same time because there needs to be sequencing between the two projects to be able to provide access across the road since these two crossings are important to the community. The second option is looking at it sequentially. In other words, Charleston Road is built first and then immediately after Meadow Drive is built. Now here we did, we assumed it right afterwards because this is likely the least expensive option in sequential. The further apart the products are, in other words, the further delayed manual is, the more expensive the cost is simply just because of time. So escalate, cost is escalated. Then finally, we look at Charleston Road only. So again, putting things into context, we're at 15, we just completed 15% design. This is the due diligence task, really supporting the concept due diligence and inform those early decisions for not only the team, but the rail committee and city council, high level schedule estimate, and row quarter magnitude and total project cost. And I'll talk as to where the components that go into that row quarter magnitude cost. We have 35% design, which is for preliminary engineering and environmental support. Those are preliminary schedule and a preliminary estimate. At that point, The project then is that it's effectively environment impaired, and it could be a food for funding. That's to be determined at a future time. Then it's 65% design. That's design development. That's when you start looking for those grant applications, procurement, understanding how the project will be packaged from a contract perspective. You have a revised schedule, and then a more detailed cost estimate that is informing the procurement. And finally, final design, which is your construction documents. Those are your construction documents that establishes your construction budget, establishes your construction baseline schedule and your budget for construction. With cost estimating, it's also risks. So even though we're at 15% and we have some risks understood and addressed, there are many more that are identified. that need to be understood and done further due diligence analysis and design. As the design progresses, you're addressing the risks, you're addressing and mitigating those risks, and then be able to then refine how many risks are within and without our control. And so as you'll notice, those risks that are addressed get bigger, and those that remain are less, and usually those are the ones that are not directly in the control of the project team. market conditions, unforeseen conditions. There's some things that just one cannot control. And so that could be the bond market, it could be the materials market, it could be international trade. There's so many things that can affect pricing with regards to materials. So that's something that we're mindful of and we do practice in a risk register for the project as the project advances. So some key things to be mindful of in terms of the cost and trade-offs, again, through the development of design, we're looking to balance safety, access, rail operations, and community impacts, and being able to, again, bring those operations down, but being mindful that that can lead to certain changes in not only expectations, but what people experience. So for example, maintaining vehicular access for the construction typically means more complex data. I can tell you a contractor says, If you can give me the space, I can bring that duration in. We do here, and we have seen that in some products, but that's not always a tool that's available. So we deal with or discuss how much particular maintenance is to be there. Maintaining high-frequency rail operations. Well, yes, that may be the case for a peak period. In other words, the focused work windows for the contractor may need to be outside of peak of when the rail service is. Minimizing project footprint means tighter work areas and potentially more complex staging Limiting noise during construction may mean reduced constructability and longer durations. And again, that's a trade-off and the balancing act is part of the conversation. And then finally, maintaining bicycle and pedestrian connections means additional temporary detours to signage and being mindful. These are just examples. There are many more that we explore as a project team, as a design effect. So, The buildup, how does the total project cost get estimated? Well, there's the contractor cost, both direct and indirect. There's the designer, engineer, or director cost. There's the agency cost, in other words, California and cities, teams in terms of project management and oversight. The fact that there's, they may need to be flagging operations, because again, when we are looking at railroad or construction near a railroad, that has to be done safely. So that all has to be monitored in terms of those what we call plaguing operations, and then construction, administration, management, and inspection. There's a real property of easement costs, the cost of time, escalation. It is a real thing, and it is a key component that we are mindful of, because every year that a project is delayed, it's a substantially increased cost, just simply because of time. Finally, a project contingency that is able to then price or estimate through the known risks and the unknown risks. So we are mindful that there are some risks that are not known, so we have to be able to provide an allowance for contingency to that. So the basis of the total project cost estimate, the dollars for the estimate were 2026. It assumes construction starts in 2032. We have to use that starting point. This is not an explicit date of saying, oh, we're definitely starting construction here. No, it is simply a date to be able to normalize the cost and be able to understand the basis of the cost. The key input was the 15% design. And then high-level construction duration. Based on those drawings, the independent cost estimator saw three to four years' worth of construction for Churchill Avenue and Seale. five years for constructing both crossings concurrently, nine years if they're constructed back to back, and then finally four years if Charleston Road is constructed on its own. Oh, and by the way, all of this will be posted online for everyone's edification. So for Churchill, this is Churchill Avenue, partial underpass and Seal Avenue, three to four years construction. approximate project cost of at the year of expenditure in other words including escalation is 420 to 450 million with regards to charleston road and meadow if you're looking at them concurrently built concurrently on the far left we're talking about 1 to 1.2 billion dollars for those to be built concurrently if they're to be built back to back over a nine year period, it's a 1.2 to 1.3 billion. So approximately $200 million more to be able to build them back to back. And then finally Charleston Road on its own, approximately 480 to 530 million. These are big numbers and I can tell you, unfortunately, it's not unusual for these types of problems to be at this scale. This is typically what we have seen or separations profit. If you don't mind holding your question, we would gladly accept it as part of the committee. But please, please. So in terms of the total profit folder program, cost, rubble, or magnitude for Churchill and concurrent Meadow is $1.5 to $1.6 billion. For Churchill and sequential construction of Meadow Charleston is $1.7 to $1.8 billion. So I'll hand it back to you.

Obviously, these are not cheap projects to build. And so the next question is funding. So in our current phase, which covers both 15% design and 35% design and environmental, right now that is fully funded through the Federal Railroad Administration's Railroad Crossing Elimination

grants programs, as well as the VTA Measure B program.

After 35% design, we will need to do a funding strategy to determine additional potential funding sources that the city and Caltrain can go after for these projects. There are some potential funding already in the works. So there's 9 million from the city's Measure K, fund, as well as about $24 million from the state church and local forum, which is sort of CalSTEP. There are other potential unallocated funding through the Measure K and the UTA Measure B for future phases of this project. This is not inclusive of all the potential funding that may be out there, although these programs are very competitive as well.

So just wanted to make a little bit of a picture for the .

So as we get into the next phase, once the city council provides concurrence on the concepts to move forward, we're gonna begin the environmental documentation. And so that will begin with performing technical studies. And so as we, as Nedra mentioned, the Shoe Fly potentially going into Alma we are gonna do a technical traffic study where we look at the potential traffic operations and conditions during construction. We're also gonna be looking at noise, air, cultural resources, and any other potential construction impacts during those construction. Then that will feed into an environmental document It'll go to the lead agencies, which are Caltrain and the Federal Railroad Administration. And then they will hopefully approve and clear the project from an environmental standpoint. And then that leads into the city council potentially operating to continue to move the project through the next design phase in past 35 years. So for a project to be considered or for a project to be approved and cleared for implementation construction, two things need to be true. And this is based on state and federal regulations. The first condition is that it needs to be environmentally cleared. The second condition is that it needs to be substantially funded through construction. Where we are right now in the 15% design and even the 35% design phases, it is still considered a planning kind of level project, the concept design and preliminaries. Therefore, property impacts are still very early on and they're still potential. So as I mentioned, 15% identifies the preliminary footprints and potential impacted parcel, 35% will continue to refine the project and construction footprints, as well as evaluate those project changes. As the project continues to move forward into future design phases, it is really important that future potential property acquisitions would require the approval to advance the project into implementation, which again goes back to environmental favorites and substantial completion. And then that will trigger the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act, which there will be a specific process that will be followed in this future. That includes whether the project has current federal funds or potential for it to have federal funds. So all that to say is potential property impacts are still landing level in this.

And will we continue to be refined in future?

So in addition to the Q&A that we're going to have, the open session, as well as the website for engagement, we will also be going to pay back. on September 3rd, followed by the rail committee on September 8th. And then lastly, the city council at the end of September for that concurrence to continue moving forward into 35 years. With that, that concludes our presentation and we will hand it over to Jill and start.

Great. So there's two mics. No, let me just. Hello, one, two, three.

All right, so do you plan on losing this time? Yeah, thanks. So now we're going to have a session for questions and answers and welcome cards that are coming in. And just as a reminder, we've got common cards. We have also the project website common form. There's the QR code. Like I said, you can do that now or later today, tomorrow, the next day. Enter comments, questions online, and welcome your input, feedback, questions. All of that, our responses will be in a packet that is provided to city council. And it goes documenting the comments and questions, and then also the product team's response. So we're going to start off with some of the comment cards that you all provided and questions. These are really focused on key topics and then general questions, but depending on the volume of questions, we'll just use the 30 minutes of time to have questions.

So, I'm sorry.

Yes, absolutely, live questions. Yes, yes, I'm going to go through these four comment cards, a few that we have, and then we'll open it up to live questions, actually. So, during the Q&A, if you are comfortable to share your name and kind of link your questions to about 30 seconds of questions so that we have time for everyone to ask their questions at that time. So we can QR code it to one point. Yes, we can have a QR code. We can show up on the screen.

I was going to say, there are QR codes on the boards, but that's to the website. But yeah, we'll get you that. Yeah.

OK. Well, we're going to start with the first question. This is a design-focused question. and I'm just gonna read them pretty much, or maybe summarize the questions. So the first one is, looking for a short answer, what are the top two reasons that Charleston and Meadow are not both hybrid solutions with RAISE track for both? And if he wants to go to a slide, he could do that as well to help.

Oh, I think that's a great question in terms of, The key driver of that is actually a control point. Actually, why don't we go to the aerial? If you don't mind, I'm going to shoot by. I think that's like the easiest one to be able to point this out very quickly. One of the things that we try to do when we're looking at separations and even changing the track geometry, we try to avoid what's called cascading design. In other words, where the improvements, you start chasing them up and down the corridor. And this is one One more. Okay. So you see Green Meadow Way? Well, just to the right of that is what's known as Control Point Navy. And that control point is actually a really important way for trains to be able to switch tracks. And so when you start moving that one, which is very close to the San Antonio station, you start essentially seeing your project Um, and so this is one where we looked at ways in which being able to raise the tracks as much as possible for that control point and within the chute block. The reason why is because the chute block creates the space between it and the fence line to the west for the tracks to be improved. And you gotta be able to do so in a safe manner for the contractor to do that work. So that's the extent in which we can hear it almost at just to the north of Eli Place. That's where the improvements can start going up. And the key thing is that once they start going up, then we've got to give it a time packet. But we actually look at what that sequence looks like, and that's about as much as we can rate it. Approximately three feet, actually, roughly where it can go up. To go up much higher, say 15 feet, it would actually extend closer to the station at San Antonio, and that's where it becomes a problem. Are you coming on?

Yes, thank you. Next question is, are you going to improve the Alma-Oregon slip lane eastbound for safety and improved access? So Alma-Oregon.

Oregon, yes. Yeah, so I believe this is part of the extract route. Oh, over here? Oh, over here, right here. One of the things that we'll be looking at, as Whitney mentioned, is the transportation, in terms of the transportation during construction. We will be exploring whether an additional signal will be helpful along Helmets Street, whether some improvements at Oregon Expressway would be prudent. So those are the types of things that we will be exploring, and we'll be talking about that with city staff, seeing how that can improve the overall, again, mobility, and circulate closer forward. But this is in the comments, though. Yes.

So can you repeat the questions to make sure I'm accurate?

Are you going to improve the Alma-Organ Slip Lane eastbound for safety and improved access?

I think in this case, we can't make an explicit amendment, how are we willing to explore what those, what we're trying to call sort of tangible improvement could be for the end of the city, to be able to get traffic or .

Moving on to another design question. What are the improvements for Alma North near Embarcadero? The overpass is so old. Also currently Alma North reduces from two lanes to one lane. When will this, or will this be improved?

That's one of the drafts.

Yes.

So we do have a project which currently might be an instruction on the north side of the market area road widening sidewalk and widening more successfully for a bicycle pedestrian. Similar improvements are often looked at for the south side. between Alma and Emerson in that area. So that is going forward as designed and hopefully in the future.

Right. Another design question. How does Charleston Motor Designs compare to the elevated tracks in Street Underpass design around San Carlos? So there's some follow-up questions related. I'll read a couple things. How high are the tracks elevated in St. Carlos? How high can the tracks be feasibly raised? So that's kind of a series of questions comparing to the St. Carlos separation.

So we're approximately raising 16 to 17 feet for the top of red. at Meadow, which means the roadway itself can be compressed about six to seven feet at that location. This is actually pretty comparable to San Carlos. That's the elevation of San Carlos. And so I think in terms of how high the clearance is, that's one that you would look at. The key thing is, is that for this particular separations at Meadow and Charleston, we're wanting to make sure that we have sufficient clearance between the road and the bridge. This is critical infrastructure, so we want to make sure that they don't get sprawled. So it's just that safety factors, so the distance between the bottom of the bridge and the top of the road.

Right. Another design question. How will the revised DAR impact setbacks along East Charleston Road?

setbacks along East Charleston Road.

So how will the revised door impact setbacks along East Charleston Road?

I think the key thing here is that the roadway geometry or how many lanes are there stays fairly consistent. The only change for the direct access ramp was the ability to make the movement from northbound Alma to West Charleston Road. And one of the previous iterations was to be able to explore the right turn with the roundabout further to the east. While that provided the functionality of making the movement, it required a larger boat. And that's where we started exploring the opportunity to be able to provide a more correct access and be able to minimize how far the project boat credit went to the east. around impacted properties around.

Okay, great.

And there's a follow-up sentence here that's a comment and then another question. So the comment is, if the reduction in our front yards, it will impact our safety in our homes, traffic, environmental exposure, and resale of that. It's a comment and then a question. But is there anything clear?

I think one of the key things here, and now I'm going to set that question up, is that There is a property line. We tried to avoid going into that property line. So there was front yards there. We tried to avoid going into those front yards. And so it's effectively having a sidewalk of cross stick, a little earlier.

And then will a U-turn at Charleston and Mumford have a dedicated traffic light?

To be determined. That's going to be part of the analysis to see if that should be, if it could be stock-controlled or .

So that's my question. I am in the corner of Charleston and Plumford. What I'm specifically asking, how often does only log on a 75 feet of pavement in your front door, in your home, 60 on your corner lot? And I look at it and really dash it, but it looks like we've done a great job of reducing full property tax. If you take a secular portion by a minor and now, find my buddy, my kid's front window, and I'm afraid of attempting for 30% percent. It's not real. Are we saying that the road will stay at 25% total standard? Can I find out if the nine months long is probably understated?

No, I'm just having a question. I need more time. Thank you. And if there's more questions, we can dive into the board so that it's a little bit easier out there in the open house. What I can say here is that the project broker has to define both the permanent improvements and what's known as temporary construction easements. So that may be a temporary construction easement to be able to allow a construction place to build, while in many cases, maintaining the setback as required by the city. And so that's why I would be mindful that that blue dashed line does not necessarily mean that it is an acquisition for permanent, And I predict it could be a potential acquisition for a temporary construction piece. So asset could be loaded in.

And she said, you know, our position, 15 years is going to make you take an answer every month, and it's going to be a colossal combination of efforts, in a terrible way or not. However, if we were to sell, we have to explain, because we are in an area where we don't know what that business will look like. And when we want to begin renovations for our home, we're still in the middle of but what's going to happen in 20.6 on the 8th, on the 32nd. So I look so much more comfortable knowing a little bit more about what's out of that book. I've got to remember your friend, because at the nine pounds on our quarter, and then he's on a quarter, it's, it impacts not only our quality of life now, but our quality of life in the future, our sound, our peace of mind, we need more information.

So you think it's annoyance for planning purposes, the project is not necessarily approved. So in that case, I would recommend, I would consider having a conversation with the realtor that understands that space more precisely, because there's specific requirements for disclosure, and that's not necessarily something that we need to address.

So I think that'd be fine. And also, I encourage you to connect. I think that's a great question. I'm going to move on to a question about the bicycle pedestrian and school access. So the question is, would cyclists' e-bikes, who are faster and more aggressive than other cyclists and pedants, be able to ride along with cars at Meadow and Trust?

So that is an option that we will be looking at and understanding, especially for e-bikes. This is something we will continue to discuss with the city. ability to be able to ride safely in that space. The ability to be able to provide that multi-purpose path is to be able to provide an option for them afterwards. And so that way there is that option always available. I would defer to the city in terms of other options.

Maybe I can make a comment on that as well. So I think that there's a lot going on in that space at the moment. There are e-bikes and there are also e-motorcycles E-motorcycles generally, the ones that we see on the street at the moment, are not legal. They're not allowed to be ridden on city trails, roadways, or sidewalks.

As a motorcycle owner, please don't do that, okay? There are electric motorcycles. Yes. They are licensed. They are so different from a regular motorcycle, except one uses gas and the other uses electricity. Please do not call the illegal things that everybody's complaining about e-motorcycling because that's not what they are. Please don't continue to promote that wrong.

Okay. So maybe we need another term, but then not e-bikes was my main point. There's things that are being written at the moment that are not actually bikes. So I think that that's something that we're working through as a community and also we're just trying to pick the lawsuits. So you can coach students.

Okay. I'm going to keep us going. We definitely want to have time for the open. I'm going to ask some questions, so we'll make time for that. But does the shoe flag affect north-south traffic on Palma? Will traffic be affected for the entire nine-year construction duration?

So, it will depend on the scenario. So, in the terms of the chute by itself, yes, it would have a material influence on the traffic around the street. It would likely be reduced to one lane in each direction with a left turn lane access where necessary. And so, yes, that is something that we are aware of and it is in We will have a board in VAT that shows where that shoe ply is in the context of the existing online revenue. That is something that we can assess. It's not a final assessment. It is just a preliminary assessment to see where that shoe ply would fit. And then what was the second part of the question? Oh, the duration of the nine-year period. Really, it's really about the duration of the shoe ply. So the shoe ply itself is in the context of the nine years. In other words, if it's sequential, it would be five years, potentially, of that street plan. In the context of the Tomlinson Road and Meadow H-10 current, again, four to five years of the potential street plan.

Yes. How does this set of proposed designs affect potential future developments for Caltrain undergrounding of tracks? So how does this proposed design affect potential undergrounding of tracks?

I think undergrounding was cracked in general would be impractical even now in this location. There are two streets in this area that are critical. And so being able to underground underneath those streets could be prompt and prompt.

And I know popcorn sound.

And substantially more expensive than the numbers that we showed today. Wait a minute, order some energy more.

Is emergency access for fire as an example, an impact on the 15% plans. So, emergency access.

So, emergency access, the ability for fire trucks to be able to make their maneuvers is what was done. So, we follow that current template, so yes. And that will be analyzed as part of the traffic analysis for.

And then specifically access across the tunnel entrances and ramps for fire protection. So, specifically with the tunnel.

Fire protection within the tunnel side of the city. The property was on the other side of the tunnel. You have to consider the ability for them to be able to respond to those. Yes, I think that is part of the assessment. And it continues to be part of the dialogue with the city departments. So this is not the first foray. Believe me, there's multiple conversations because As we look at the relocation of utilities and relocation of certain factors or certain components, we have to be mindful of what that then changes. So in terms of our items and where that takes place and the fire department's ability to respond. It's not just one, but also a bag of information about one response, except one component. So that is something that we've always covered in the conversation with the city's fire department.

How does this project address our provide and prevent intentional access of the railroad.

Yes, so part of what the Great Separation does helps seal this portion of the corridor. So in terms of intrusion, it becomes much more difficult to be able to go along that space. There's usually anti-intrusion panels. However, it is forced because of the existing process. The existing process, there's no way to seal it off. And so when you separate it, that space then can be sealed off appropriately for perhaps an intrusion. From an intrusion.

Is it related to that question?

It did that. My question is, for the first time in 15 years, possibly maybe you have people crossing, maybe you don't have any good ways to achieve that. Is that any good for doing that?

Is that it? No, it was, again, it was the council's request to be able to just understand the cost of the patients and the setting of the patients of one and then the other and seeing what that difference would be across having birth. And so that was the- And the option, correct? That option of adjusting the cost would be to do this to, you know, so the cost of just crossing the road. Okay. But in any case, you can still do something like that. That would be part of the rail committee and the state council's direction as to what would be advanced to provide a sufficient fund. So, in other words, it can't be, that can't be a definitive answer now because the funding question hasn't been resolved. That is something that would be resolved as part of the process.

Or we have a possibility then that one can say that that is my next question.

and then we'll run it up. Okay, so continuing on the theme of cost, someone has asked, project cost, or has stated and asked, project cost can increase quite a bit. How much more has one billion preliminary estimate done up in Palo Alto?

So what would be the cost of these states?

That's sort of an apples and oranges question because what was previously estimated was only construction costs. This reflects what is the cost in terms of the agencies, in terms of the operations, in terms of, you know, because once you have flagging or, you know, special operations out there for, say, construction, that also is reflected out in the cost. And also the fact that installation costs with a big part as mentioned before.

All right. Wrapping up the questions here, this is maybe more of a comment, but please explain, question and comment, how spending a billion dollars to build a 20-foot-high Berlin wall helps as the best choice to improve the city?

That is a policy question for another to consider. Thank you.

It's different. Last question, I'm not sure that I can arrange anything. Are you comfortable? Are you comfortable? And this will be the open portion of the mic, and then I'll start in a minute. Thank you. This is a question about my experience in having a concussion and getting onto a diaphragm.

When you raise or lower, the railways, can you raise or lower the station heights, perpendicular to what you're doing, in order that the frame entrance will be leveled with the entrance without height gap, which is the greatest condition.

So your question is with regards to platform height and effectively level ordering between platform height. Do you want to answer that or not?

I mean, there's no station.

Right now, there's no stations associated with this project, and that is being considered by CalPAN future. But in the context of this project, we don't have a station where that would be a decided decision. So it's not the responsibility of this project.

So you're saying it's something for the future?

It's for a different project under CalTransfer 2.

Thank you. We'll keep going.

I don't see it on display now. My question is, how much does a seal cost a bicycle? How much does that cost?

We didn't segregate out the cost for Seal Avenue, but that is something that we can inform and have ready for our committee.

My position is that if you build more bicycle and pedestrian crossings, there'll be fewer vehicular crossings because the students will be riding their bikes to school and there'll be a bit more paths to go through when they go to school. I understand.

Okay.

So we have a separate project, which is called the South Palo Alto Activity Project. And there's actually a community meeting for that on Earth Day. It's at Brinkman Library. Brinkman Library. At 6 p.m. And so they'll be discussing the Eldorado location. That's still in books. Perfect.

I'm John Foster. Thanks for all your work on this. Two related questions. There's one with the total project cost of $1.5 billion. You just exploded that amount. Is it clear where the funding for the overall project is? That's question one. And question two, is it absolutely definitive that a decision is made? We will move forward on some option here for $1.5 billion.

Or at some point, can people say that's just too much money? So with regards to the second section first, as part of the grants that have been provided to the city, both from the federal government and BTA, there's a commitment to have these projects be through 354.10. So that they're at least that due diligence to be able to answer those questions of better understanding costs associated with them. At that point, it would then be the prerogative of city council as a city being a public sponsor to see then what advances beyond based on the funding that's available. Okay, so great, great question. And so that was question two. Now question one, with regards to the funding, that's where you may have noticed on the funding side that the strategy for the funding is still being developed. And that's because, again, this is what's been shared today. This is the first foray to understanding that nominal cost for the total project, total program. And so you'll see that none of these numbers added to one billion yet. And so if that's where you do look at, you know, what are other funding sources, but that is a practical policy decision that will need to be cited by the council.

Yeah, I can add to that. So part of the purpose of the 15% design is concept funding, actually. It also helps us in feasibility, understanding feasibility analysis. A little bit of process management And also the 15% design helps the city to position itself for applying for grants as well. But each capital, like each CRP that goes through the city has to be approved by councils. That's inclusive.

I haven't watched this in my life over a very long time. I have to say, I do appreciate the thought that has gone into it. One question I have is for the city, really. Is the city even considering the impact on Learning Expressway and San Antonio that will be caused by what looks like the more reasonable approach to do both Meadow and Charleston at the same time? San Antonio's already been very impacted several times a day. taking out those routes at the same time will inevitably affect them. I hope it's on the radar.

Yes. I have mentioned in this report also that as part of the next steps, we are analyzing the traffic circulation feedbacks, which would be due to the construction, either one or both. So we are looking at the circulation impact and then plan for the mitigations or something that would be required in the construction to allow for heavy stipulation and understand the delays in . Carl Jones, thank you for your explanation on the height restriction at Charleston. So I call the meadow interchange a full interchange because you can go left, right, front, and the end of the board area. What then is the impediment? Now that I understand the height restriction, what is the impediment for having a total interchange at Charleston? So with regards to Charleston, once the road has to go down, if all of our two needed at an intersection, it too would have to go down. At that point, yes, it would create a potential intersection down below, but there are utilities. made it far more complex um and also retaining walls the construction of that is actually much larger uh than we can see that's why when we looked at this option of understanding the turning movements and where the higher demand really was really the important part one of the things that we understood and heard well from when i was in city staff uh but also the city council being mindful that growth was happening on the southern side of Alto, greater demand to the south, and there was greater demand to West Boston Road. That's when we started looking at this direct access, that maneuver left from north to west and right from east to south. And this configuration allowed to be able to serve the vast majority of the traveling public in an efficient manner, while maintaining great separation costs. And an access ramp from the north, maybe there isn't feasible or doesn't solve that problem. It doesn't explicitly address that problem and complicates it in terms of the utility locations. Thank you very much.

All right. And we have about five minutes. We're going to, you sir and me, about five minutes.

At the last meeting, there was a lot of discussion about the steel bike pedestrian and how that's going to work. And I know there was this question that said, no, isn't there any possibility of doing Churchill having the bike pedestrian go directly accessible to Poway from Churchill or from Kellogg, so Kellogg can kind of go, matches up to that, Train, right now there's a pedestrian on with town and country, you know. Yeah, yeah, but there's already a connection, you know, but anyway, it's nice.

That was part of the previous iteration. It was explored, and the challenge there was the ability to be able to build the ramps adjacent to the stands in Pali. They had some flexities there, That made it really tough. And to be able to then have the ramps beyond the others because of where the Churchill underpass is, at that point, the pedestrian ramps had to go directly above Kellogg. It couldn't fit within the Alma Street footprint. It couldn't. And yeah, as much as one would like to, and again, This is again, when I see, and this is just for the groups that are on vacation, when I see a road going down, I immediately know utilities need to be relocated outside of that space. And so where does that space, where is that space at? Where can those utilities go? How to be able to do it in such a way where it's able to continuously provide a service to those customers, these would be the residents for those schools. That would be water, gas, sewer,

Ask any questions.

And we're always looking for those ideas. Please share.

Hello, I'm John Melton . Can you come up to one? Sure. Water the boat on the seaside track. Yes. And use the plunger. It's slow. It's my backpack. Slow. And we have a goat rider, which is just about there. So, we're going to spend a billion and a half dollars to increase my track for five to nine years, 80 feet from my house. And we buy a whirlwind wall. There's a profile. So, yeah, we do have a profile in the back.

Cross the wall, no signs, lots of green lines.

So there we go. So the intersection, as it's suppressed, what happens is the wall, as it's raising up, the road is going down so that the wall height is a little bit taller at the intersection. But that's because of both the road going down and the tracks going up. As you go away from the intersection, that wall reduces in height actually very quickly. And we have a profile in the back and we can show where that height would be at 5 feet, at 10 feet, at 15 feet. So that you can see the context of where that wall is at different points in the corridor or at different points of the track. You'll be able to see what that context is.

But it wouldn't be fully, right?

To be determined right now, That's something that's shown where the wall is right at the, effectively at the edge of the right-of-way. And that's something that can be explored in terms of the ability to be able to put landscaping or some form of a facade on that wall.

So in terms of the context of an individual's impacts on society, it's very important.

valid concern and one that we take into consideration from a holistic view in a project to be able to understand how the project can be built. So I would say, though, is that the should-by will not be the full 90 years. It can be, now, again, if we look at it from an estimating perspective, I'll be able to be more conservative at this stage. There's less, there are more unknowns And so as the design progresses, we look for the ability to be able to compress that timeframe so that the shoe bias is ensured. Thank you.

Last question and then we'll break for open house.

Hi, my name is Olkar Berkel. I'm a BCP graduate from Ballard High School. First of all, amazing presentation. You explained everything really well. My main concern is for Ballard High School students and Gallaudet High School students bike to school, walk to school every day, cross some grass. I mean, obviously, it'll be a very safe experience after the construction is done, but how would it be a safe experience during construction if that's determined now, but it's not, then it would be great if it was, like, strong consideration. Great question. It is a strong consideration. It's one thing that is considered from a constructability perspective already. No, no. So it's already supported, say, with the, for example, the independent cost estimator. When we sat down with them, we said, look, the contractor, we're imagining a situation where the contractor has to provide a safe space for pedestrians. Here we go to reno really quick. I think this is a way for, at least for, to provide a little bit of insight into how these things are explored. So when this is to be constructed, can we go to the rendering a little bit? There we go. There's, in this context, one, the wall can't be built fully out. It actually needs to be built in two stages because of where the shoe ply is going to be placed along all of them. And so for a good chunk of time, the contractor doesn't have to be admitted. They can be outside working on retaining walls, working on building, so they have safe access to be provided for conditions. And even the shoe ply has to provide those, that safe process condition where the crosswalk takes place. Once, for example, those burgers have to be constructed over the top or the foundation, then we look at ways in which the pedestrian and cyclist can be fixed on one side or the other, or in the case of putting or cramming burgers over the top, then it has to, at that point, the crosswalk has to be closed for pedestrians and cyclists. During the next operation, we provide that safe space for all So that's one of the things that we do explore at a high level. We welcome questions like that in the report. I really appreciate your time and your questions, and we continue to run your work review over the next... What you said, Tesla, is it for Charleston also?

Because Charleston also came in on the content.

Yeah, so that would be true as well for Charleston, in the sense that That is one of the things that we look at from a projectability perspective, that if Charleston Road needs to be closed for pedestrians and cyclists, how to be able to make sure that they have a safe path at Meadow or another location where necessary. That is something that we look at stage by stage so that we're able to then, with confidence, be able to say, this is what we're looking at in terms of the ability to construct. And we brought up more questions. And so the new 35% design, your questions and the technical team's questions will continue to be answered by that process.

Thanks, everyone, for the conversation. And we invite you to participate in our open house.