City Commission - Special Meeting

Amen. I call this city commission special meeting of Monday, April the 6, 2026 to order at 3:05 p.m. May we please stand for an invocation by Commissioner Mike Fearson, Senior, followed by the pledge of allegiance.

Heavenly Father, we just thank you for another opportunity to come before your presence. Father, I ask you to just lead us and guide us. Father, I ask you just give us a spirit of unity, Father. Father, we ask that you just protect this city, Father, every citizen, Father, that we will be able to do your will in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Amen. To the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Roll call. Madame clerk. Mayor Bab, present. Vice Mayor Cowan Williams, present.

Commissioner McDonald, present. Commissioner McFersonson, present. Commissioner Scott, interim city manager, present. City attorney, here. City clerk is present.

Thank you, Madame Clerk. Thank you, commissioners. Thank you staff and most importantly thank our audience for being here today to participate and watch and deliberate as we deliberate in our special uh commission meeting. This special meeting was initiated by vice mayor uh Kyus Williams. Uh the mayor or a majority of the commission can call for a special meeting. I think there was an incident with uh involving two charter uh members. If this was outside of a charter member and it was a staff, we wouldn't be really involved in the day-to-day operation. But this since these are people that we actually are responsible for supervising, then we now need to take some type of investigation and look at what's transpired. And what we'll do is have each of the parties who was involved just give a brief explanation of what occurred during that uh particular day. and then we'll have each of the commission uh make comments or ask any question they see uh appropriate to ICE. So, I'll start uh with the interim city manager uh Tammy Butsy to give her point of view of what transpire transpired. Mayor, if um vice mayor initiated the special meeting, I'm not really sure why we're here. So, can you have her explain why we're here?

Okay. Um yes, vice may um interim manager. you're here um for the same reason what Mayor Bab said and you sent they you sent an email to us um stating that um we need to um address the clerk our clerk y'all clerk for disres being disrespectful. So that's what the meeting is for to determine what transpire and the purpose of we're needing to do what you're saying that we need to do something with the disrespectful clerk. So that's why we're having the meeting. All right. Thank you. I just want to be clear that we want to Yes. It was in regards to the the uh thread of emails that we received.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Um just in a nutshell to explain it, there have been some emails transpiring between staff members at the uh city hall and I wasn't involved in the the transpiring of the emails. I was reading them. So on Thursday, the last day when all this happened, um Miss Clock sent an email stating that um in reference to needing addition information for a public records request. So it had gone back and forth, but my only involvement was I responded via the email as far as taking care of the matter. So what I did prior to that once I saw that one staff member Miss Driver was requesting a public uh requesting copies of a proposal

and Miss Clark was saying it was a public records request. So it was a little bit of a misunderstanding there. So, I called the attorney to inquire as to the reference of needing an outside person um on the committee that the proposal copies were being asked for. The attorney stated that she wasn't referring to that particular proposal. So, with that, receiving that from the attorney, I was all done with it. I proceeded out of my office to walk down the hallway. I'm walking down the hallway to the office of Miss Blake. As I'm going down the hallway, city clerk comes out of her office and right away comes at me, I feel like in an attacked manner. Don't you give him that? And I'm looking like, who are you talking to? You can't give him that. I'm walking down the hallway. Nothing's in my hand. What are you assuming? So I'm don't you give me that. So I walk on by. She's, you know, you can't give him that. Don't you give him that. So I wave off and I'll keep continue to walk. So she continues to yell or whatever, not even really understanding what she's saying. So as I'm walking into the office, I looked over and I said, "You know what? You need to shut up." And then I continue to walk into Miss Boule's office, got the documents I was looking for. Well, actually, they were not there. Uh, so I got some other things that Miss Boule had for me. And I'm walking back down to my office and Miss Clark is still, you know, talking and screaming to the personnel, HR, they had come out of the room. So I went into my office and shut my door and continued to work. And so the manner that she was talking, she came out, I'm walking down the hallway, not talking to anyone, going to another staff member's office. She comes out of her office. Why? I don't know. come out

of her office immediately, you know, comes toward me to tell me, "Don't give him this. You can't do this." Apparently assuming what I'm going to do. And her tone was disrespectful, unprofessional, and in my opinion, inappropriate. And so that was my response, walking, you know, walking off from her and and and saying what I said, which, you know, those are the words I said. And the And that's that's that's my response to that. Thank you. Miss Ms. Clark, could you give your version of what transpired?

Um, yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So, as Miss Busy said on Thursday, April 2nd, um, a gentleman had come in to the office. So, we have a slew of emails. Because we are currently in a coma of silence for RFP 202601. There are some things I cannot say. However, um I had received as soon as I got in the office, I received notification from staff via email that a gentleman had come to get documents for the RFP. Again, we are in a cone of silence. So, um when the gentleman come back to the office after the email thread, I reached out to Miss Driver um letting her know that someone had come by and to provide additional information. So, I soon learned that the gentleman had supposedly been sent there by his supervisor from the county and that the county was supposed to be participating in this bid as a part of the review committee. To the best of my knowledge, the only people that were involved in a review committee were staff. So, again, we are in a cone of silence. This was not provided to staff prior to no one knew anything about it. Um, and so it would have put the city in a very compromising position. So I apologized to the gentleman. I let him know that we were not aware and I told him until I get clarification, we can't release the documents. So the gentleman had been coming back and forth um to get the documents. So he finally came back after I come back from lunch. And so that's when I emailed Miss Driver again. Like Miss Busy said, she was not a part of the thread. She was in the thread. So, she had received all of the emails, but she hadn't been communicating or responding in the thread. So, I was waiting on Miss Driver to provide the clarification as to who will be serving on this board. I also consulted the city

attorney regarding the matter and the city attorney said that Miss Driver needs to specifically and explicit explicitly state who the review committee members are. So once I sent the email letting her know that the gentleman was back at city hall and he was waiting outside um staff, you know, I guess Miss Miss Busy came and got the gentleman. He was in her office. She sent an email at uh at 1:36 um inserting herself inside the thread and saying, "Good afternoon everyone. I am taking care of this matter. This is not a public records request." So mad documents cannot be given out. They have to go through the office of the city clerk. So as I'm uh reading that I get up to go let her know that when I'm coming out of my office she's coming down the hallway. So immediately I'm like you can't do that. You can't give the gentleman the documents. I wasn't rude to her. I wasn't aggressive. Staff witnessed it. Unbeknownst to her there were staff members in the copy room. So they witnessed this situation. I was trying to let her know that she can't release it. We're already scrutinized by OIG a lot. So, I'm trying to prevent any other further matters from occurring. So, I said, "You can't do it." She tells me, "No, I'm tired of y'all telling me what to do. I'm the manager." And I'm like, "No, you can't." And that's what I started saying, "No, you can't release the documents." She told me to shut up repeatedly. Told me to shut up and she was gesturing. So, as anyone would be, I was taken a back. I don't disrespect Miss Busy. And this, amongst other things, I've been taken disrespect. However, I've been accused of being disrespectful, even in email thread. So, I have documentation of it. But in this particular case, I'm trying to prevent the city from finding itself in another finding. So, when I told her that, we were both going back and forth with the matter because she kept telling me to shut up. And I kept saying, "Don't talk

to me in that manner. You're not my mom. I'm not a child. Don't disrespect me. I don't disrespect her. I do my best to do my job and that's it. But staff witnessed this. So this is that's what occurred. I didn't come out aggressive towards her. Miss Busy did not want to hear and she didn't want to follow the proper protocol. So I did tell her if you release any documents, I will personally contact OG because it is not appropriate to release those documents. We don't know to this day who the ex who the additional people are. I'm still waiting on clarification for that. It's not a records request. However, if we're saying that other people are supposed to be serving on this board on the review committee, we need documentation of that. There's already been some iffy things even with this RFP um that just kind of have me a little cautious. So, that's what happened. And if staff are the staff that witnessed it, if they're provided opportunity to give their statements without fear of retaliation, I welcome that.

Thank you for those comments. I now would turn to the

may I respond to that you mayor because if and she can respond after I speak and I'm listening to what she's saying and by no means did all of that transpire. When I walked down the hallway after I had spoke to the attorney I knew not to release anything. That's why I called the attorney. I got up and I'm walking down the hallway to go to the office of Miss Boule. As I'm going down the hallway, Miss Clark comes out. She does not say all the things she's saying that she said. And so, I'm not going to sit here and let her say that when it's not true. We had words. They were disrespectful. They were confrontational. I responded in a moment of exasperation which I acknowledge that the words may not have been the best choice but I am not going to be disrespectful. I would like for us to keep our conversations respectful going forward but at this time we are dealing with an issue that needs to be addressed and as Miss Clark has said as far as disrespect I have shared with you all emails that have has transpired. I don't want this to continue as far as things being iffy around the city. I came into that. I am trying my best to prevent that from happening. I have spoken with Miss Clark. If you all recall the very first meeting that we had, I gave Miss Clark aspirations. I gave her accommodations. I gave her thank yous for what she was doing to assist me in my new role. All of a sudden that changed her attitude, her demeanor and her respect for me and I was disappointed and with the transer transpiring of events on Thursday I was I was frustrated. I was exasperated but it became because I'm

going down the hallway. You are assuming what I'm going to do. You have already said what you said. The attorney has confirmed that that wasn't what she was talking about as far as uh referring for us to find someone from outside. With that, I'm done. I'm going down the hallway. She comes out of her office in my opinion disrespectful and attack antagonistic and I respond accordingly. Not necessarily the best of worst at this point, but that's what it is. And I'm hoping we can move forward, work together, and let respect be our priority as we work together. Okay, let me let me ask one question though. You you mentioned disrespect also, Miss Clark mentioned that in your opinion uh talking to another charter officer, do you feel that the comment you made for her to shut up, that's not disrespectful to you in any means? I just said I responded to her action disrespect to me and maybe the words may not have been a good choice of words as I think about it but at that time I was reacting you know according to her disrespect to me

understand that. So but my in my in in your opinion using the word shed up to another charter officer do you feel that was disrespectful to her? Those are words that I've never used before, but at this point, you have you when you when I'm there every day, you know, dealing with the, you know, the things that I'm dealing with. No, it wasn't a good choice of words. I admit that. I take accountability for that. And I'm saying that not a good choice of words, but I'm just hoping to move forward and all of us be respectful in communication.

I understand that, but you you're avoiding the question. That's a direct question. You feel that with disrespect for just using those? I feel it was maybe a bad choice of words at that time. Okay. So, you're not you're not saying Okay. So, I I have a question. So, listening to um both of what both of them had to say. I have a few questions. So, I'm looking at the email and I'm listening to what you're saying as well. When you wrote the email and you said that um I'm taking this ma I'm taking care of this matter. This is not a public request. Can you tell me what did you mean by that?

I from speaking and looking at the situation, I didn't feel it was a public records request. That was my statement. What I mean when I'm taking care of the matter, I'm going to let the staff know it's a done deal. We're going to wait until we got further information from the attorney and got the settlement with the everyone on the same page with the city clerk and the city attorney. And so after you talked to the attorney, did you let the clerk know? Because I guess the clerk probably still thinking that because you said you would take care of the matter. Did you as the interim manager go to the clerk or call the clerk to say, "Hey, I've talked to the attorney and the attorney said that you know whatever it is that you guys spoke about versus um that could have t uh avoided taking place what you know actually took place if you had just called and said, "Hey, I spoke to the attorney. Um, we would not be moving for I would not be moving forward on what I'm saying that I would take care of. Like I guess my question would be how could the clerk have known that you were not going to get the documents um as you stated and going to I guess um I wasn't given the opportunity to when I was going down the hallway if I didn't have a chance because she came right out letting me know what I couldn't do. Okay, my next question is I heard the clerk say that um somebody came in to get copies. So, I don't know who the other person was or who they are from the county and um if this is a RFP goes out um and if there's supposed to be a committee, whoever this person is, um why wasn't that person name submitted um to the clerk when they were submitted to the clerk of who was

going to be on this committee? Why wasn't that name submitted as well? so that the clerk would be aware since she is the keeper of records and have to um provide all the records. Why wasn't that name given to the clerk along with all the other committee members?

Um I'm not really sure about that particular reason. I know that the committee meeting the committee members were um compiled with our strategic planner who was putting the the um committee together. And so as far as my information, the names were there. I don't I'm not sure as far as who was missing. My question that was I was having to answer or that I was reading about was about the public records request. The public records request. Um if you would like, Miss Miss Driver is here and she can let you know about the names uh being permitted uh you know submitted or not. But I know a committee was being compiled to legitimately have the evaluations of the companies who submitted the proposals.

But as the manager, I get it that you have other people in place, but as the manager, you are responsible for knowing who is on that committee. There should not be a committee formed that's going to interview for our RFP. And you being the interview manager, you're saying that you don't know who the people were. Well, let me correct that. Um the names the names were listed that's the the names were listed as far as uh the gentleman from the county why it and let me and why I don't know the whether the clerk had the name or not but Miss Driver had a name listed but I'm not sure how that transpired between the [clears throat] two of them

because from reading the email it kept saying someone someone and I was looking I we didn't unless we didn't get the other emails cuz I was looking to see who the person finally was and I My question still is why was that person named and as listening to the clerk she said the name still has not been provided to her. So if we're in a cone of silence and I have some documents here that I looked up for RFP. We don't want to be the uh the city don't want to be the one that is found in the wrong because then there are fines that goes along with this when we you know RFPs are not followed. So, I'm still not understanding if we knew who the committee was going to be again. And as of today, the clerk still just said she doesn't have the name of the person. Um, I'm trying to understand still why doesn't she have that name? And in the email, she has requested the information from Miss Driver and that information still has not been forwarded to this comm to um to the clerk and this commission is not aware of who it is.

Okay. the the name I think Miss Miss Clark does have the name. The name of the guy is his Santage Samuel. I see that his name was included in the emails and um Mr. Davis was the one that was coming to the office to pick it up for him, but nothing was ever released to him. So when I guess I'm still trying to understand if she wouldn't release it to them and she's the cler she because she's the keeper of records and from me looking at the public records act. The clerk has to give the okay for all public records to go out like we can't the commissioner can't just go and give out records. And so we want to make sure that we're allowing the clerk and everyone else to do their jobs. like we can't just decide I'm going to give out records and the clerk is not aware of it if that's her job. So if something is going out of city hall and it's pertaining to the city and it's an RFP, we have to trust that who we have in there is doing the job and that they're doing the job properly that we can't just decide to I'm going to give out records and um the clerk because that's the clerk's job. That's part of her job and it says it even in the charter. That's her job that when records go out, the clerk has to be aware of all records that are going out to make sure that we're we're following the process of what we're supposed to be following when it comes to public records. And I know you said it wasn't a public record request, and I guess I'm still not understanding what was it if it was not a public records request.

Okay. And I

and I I um respect your comment because I too am all for someone doing their job as I would hope to be able to do in my day-to-day operations to respond to your question and that's where again the email threads were going back and forth and that's why I asked the attorney my understanding it wasn't a public records request coming in where someone were requesting were requesting records from a document or that the clerk needed to send out. What my understanding was this. We have put out the proposals through the clerks. Companies have sent their proposal in for to be evaluated for the contract. The gentleman that was going to serve on the committee with staff was being brought in as a committee member. So that way with his background from being a county IT personnel, he was being brought in at the request of the strategic plan, Miss Driver. So he was being requested to come in. He needed to be provided the proposals so he could evaluate and be ready for the evaluation time. So at the our understanding and that's why we have a city attorney. Our understanding was he no one's requesting public records. We're asking someone to come in and serve on a committee with us and he has to have the proposals to evaluate along with the other committee members to make the the right decision. Once I learned that there was some disagreement. Miss Clark said it was a public records request. Even if we didn't agree, that was her position. The attorney says she didn't recommend the outside use of someone. So

when that was, you know, misunderstanding or the um instruction from the city clerk and the city attorney, I as the interim city manager decide we would not in uh you know uh give the copy. Hello. Um, Mr. Mayor. Yes, Miss Mayor. Yes.

Yeah. I just want to be clear. I'm not trying to really get in the middle of this, but I just want to be clear that the question [clears throat] the the statement when Miss um Busy called me, she she was explaining that you said that we needed to get somebody from the outside. And my only conversation with her was that that's not what I was talking about. It was a CCNA item, not this one. I didn't say that she shouldn't get somebody on the outside if she feels that that's a you know that's a management um uh decision. So I did not I did not tell her that she shouldn't get somebody from the outside. I just told her that what she was saying I said had to do with not this item but the CCNA item. And so I just want to be you know very clear. I didn't want to say anything. I didn't plan to but I just wanted to kind of make sure we're all on the same page. And that was my statement. That was my statement that when I was asking you, you said that was the one you were referring to. So that's that was

and if I can further clarify regarding the email thread. So I'm just going to read it um exactly how it's written in the thread. So at 10:23 on April 2nd, I sent an email to Miss Driver and I said, "Good morning, Miss Driver. Thank you for the clarification." Because at first, like I said, when the gentleman had come to city hall, we didn't know who he was. We're in a cone of silence. staff did not have prior knowledge of this. So to the best of my knowledge, as I stated, we only knew that the review committee was comprised of internal staff only. It had not been provided in advance. So you, as you can imagine, walking into work and you're finding out someone want documents while we're in a cone of silence. So once um Miss Driver responded back to me saying it was not a public records request, this is my response to Miss Driver at 10:23. I said, "Good morning, Miss Driver. Thank you for clarification." To the best of my knowledge, based on your email on March 27, 2026, the evaluation committee was comprised of internal staff members only. I am now in receipt of the information indicating that the county will be assisting in this capacity. Based on your direction, copies will be prepared for the committee member. To ensure proper documentation and consistency in the distribution of materials, please provide a complete list of all evaluation committee members with the specific external num member that these copies are to be provided to. Additionally, for future coordination, I would appreciate advanced notice of any pertinent information as all records must be distributed through the city clerk's office and given that this is um this procurement is under the cone of silence, I proceeded with caution due to lack of prior notice. Once I have received your response, the documents will be provided to the external member very respectfully. I waited for a response which I never received. I then went back at 1:25 because like I said, the gentleman had come back. He was waiting outside. Good day, Miss Driver. Following the email below, please respond. The gentleman has come back and is waiting. The only thing that I needed

at that time is for her to respond explicitly in that thread stating who the member was based on conversations with the um the attorney. there is no um you know issue with the county serving. However, we need advanced notice of this. If if staff does not have advanced notice of this, I can't give the records out. So, if you state who we're going to give the documents to. We didn't know who we were going to give documents to. And as Miss Busy said earlier, the gentleman forwarded over an email thread. I can't take that. I need it specifically from the person who had been coordinated explicitly stating who the documents will be provided to.

I never in violation. Even if we' have gave it to this other person because the person that was sent, that's not the person that's going to be serving on the committee. They sent somebody else to pick it up. They sent someone else, but which would have still been in a violation. Sending somebody else to pick it up is not even the person who's going to serve on the committee. They sent somebody else from the county to pick it up.

I'll defer over to the attorney for that particular one. However, um that's when I received an email at 136. So, I sent email at 125. the general was waiting. I just needed her to write back and state that in that email thread. That's when I got the email from Miss Busy saying, "I am taking care of this matter. This is not a public records request." That's not what I said, but that was the end of that. So then I didn't get more emails. And I also want to notate that during the um verbal disagreement in the hallway, Miss Busy also made mention to my evaluation in which I found that to be very inappropriate. What was said about your evaluation?

Don't forget your evaluation is coming up. I'm performing my statutory my statutory duties. I went within the bounds of my duties. I'm doing my job. I have I have a lot more that I can speak on in regards to that. A lot more. Could you mention uh talk on that or just briefly Miss Busing? Why would you mention evaluation in this? Yes, ma'am. I can do that. Okay. In re in regards to what Miss Clark just said as I'm going into um down the hallway, Miss Clark is still yelling and talking. And I said to her, I said, "You're being very disrespectful. Don't forget I have a hand in your evaluation." That's what I said to correct her and that was it in response to her.

That was not the statement though. But the the way I am with this now is we're talking about the release of documents once the attorney said, you know, wasn't clear on as far as being her referring to someone else on this partic particular RFP. Once the clerk said that we couldn't release it, I was done with it. And I'm gonna further add, Miss Busy was not done with it. She said she was going to do what she wanted to do. And that's when I told her if the documents are released, I was going to contact OG and that's what I was going to do. And I did not hear that.

Staff heard it. I have witnesses. People witness this this this matter. I'm curious to know who these staff members are that heard this. Yeah, can they come forward and um that's what I was about to ask verify that that they heard this because the commission I'm willing to answer any questions anyone has for me. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. I was in the copy room. Who is I? Heather Curtis Vaneps. Thank you. You're welcome.

I was in the copy room by copier number two looking out the door. Miss Luria was by copier one looking in. So, Miss Busy had come down the hallway. She went to TJ's um office where I could hear her say, "This is not going to work out. You're fired." Yes, that was first.

So that Nene came out of her office when you were that way. You came back this way and y'all started bickering. Nile did say you were not her mother after you told her to shut up that you weren't going to talk talk to her that way. You did mention that you did have a hand in her evaluation. You did tell her to shut up more than once, as well as the fact that y'all kept screaming at each other. You had your finger up toward her face. She had her finger up. Y'all weren't close together. Y'all were a distance apart. But yes, she it was disrespect on both parts. But I'm going to defend myself just like Nile did if you said something to her. So what what is your position just so we know what correlation is here?

Code enforcement. Oh So I have a So you you said that you're going to defend yourself just like Nene did. Yes. If I if somebody's screaming at me, I'm going to defend myself. Okay. So was Nile not screaming? They both were screened. Okay. I I I like to hear that rather than you saying it like it's one-sided or whatever. They were both were screened.

Um the thing of it is I don't um condone any of what has transpired. I detest the fact that I have to be here at 3:00 on a Monday afternoon in between meetings and what have you, but um you know, let's not make it look like it's any one person that's responsible for this entire incident. They were both guilty of it screaming at one another. Thank you. And if I may because if we Mayor B. Yes.

This is my concern. The reason I call the meeting because we want to you know when you know the meeting when when we when I I read all the emails and they came the first thing came to my mind was we have you know first of all it's unprofessional on both parts. It's unprofessional with the screaming and telling each other to shut up and staff having to come out and hear all of this taking place and you have new staff up there that just started and you know we we already have the eyes on us and then something like this is going on. And so my concern is with it coming to us, we have to make sure that all staff is in a safe environment. like we cannot allow something like this to take place and not address it. So that is why I um called the meeting because we don't want to put ourselves in litigation either saying that we aware of something that has been brought to our attention and we don't um we we don't put something in place. We don't put something in place for this and then have workers up there feeling unsafe or intimidated on the job. So that was my reason for um for for calling the meeting to make sure because they got to work together. They're in the same building. You have staff that's there. And so I want I mean we as a commission has to make a decision to make sure the environment is safe. And I understand what Miss Bus said moving forward. um you know she want to um us to work together and get along and that's fine well and dandy easier than said but you you we have to look at to make sure that you know in the workplace is a safe place to work and I don't want to come to any conclusions or anything like that but um now I've been in for Hoki I mean I know some things taking place but to see amongst staff amongst staff is up there

carrying on in this matter carrying on in this matter is unacceptable. This is unacceptable and it's unprofessional on both parties um part. Um I understand that um Miss Clark say she was trying to do her job and I guess maybe not understanding the cone of silence um process maybe brought about some of this because the process was not understood. But as a commission, some decisions have to be made. We can't just overlook it and say we're going to move forward and everybody get along. Um and then something comes up later on and then the city be held um responsible. So

I I'll say that um I totally agree that we should take action whenever um there's incidents that require us to do so. But I don't understand um why all of a sudden now we need to take action because it's been a need for action to be taken. So um you know I'm not saying that we should discount this incident because certainly we need professionalism. But I just want to make sure that each party is held equally responsible for what has transpired. And if we're able to move forward, let's move forward. Why beat a dead horse?

I know. You know, and and the thing of it is um not to drag this out so much, but it's like the clerk alluded to, there are some other things that could be brought up as well. And I don't want to sit here and hash it out today. No, if it's not pertaining to this meeting, it's pertaining to that's how they got to that incident. That's how they got to that point. It didn't didn't just happen overnight. And I'm sure that um like I said, I I don't want to uh drag it out. Let's address the issue at hand so we can go home. That's where I rather be right now.

Well, heard from Commissioner Mike Fierce and see what comments he may have. I'm just very concerned and very disappointed because all of us are professional and even though we may not agree on different things, we need to be able to communicate in a professional manner regardless if we agree or disagree. And I'm at really just at a loss for words why we even here. Not why we here, but I really didn't wouldn't expect something like this. I would think that all of us be able to do our jobs and even if we disagree on some things again, we have to respond in a professional manner. And you know, we all got to treat people the way that we want to be treated. And and I agree this and I'm very concerned that and this have to be addressed.

Okay. Also, my question to the interim city manager, did you mention the fact that you was terminating someone during this process or this communication of the back and forth conversation that transpired? No, sir. No one was terminated. I say, did you mention the fact that you was going to someone was going to be terminated?

No, sir. when I spoke with who Miss HPS respon uh referred to is when I went into the office, I said to her as far as the the issue at hand as far as the initial request, as far as copies, I went in and I said to the executive assistant that this was wasn't working and we're going to have to make some changes. And so, um, that was what happened as far as what Miss Eps is talking about. So, you didn't say before Miss EPS and everybody else that she was going to be fired? No, ma'am.

That that's concerning to me because um, HR was um, witnessed all of this. So apart from Miss EPS, there were other staff members that witnessed this as well. When the comment that someone was going to be fired or what what do you be specific when you say that? I'm talking to Mrs. Clark right now. I know I overheard something as well, but you could ask HR. You say you overheard it. HR is here. HR? Yes. Um I'm asking you, city clerk. You say you overheard that?

Yes, ma'am. I overheard HR being told that someone had gotten fired. Yes, ma'am. No, what I'm asking you is if you heard the city manager tell someone that they were going I overheard a staff report and say to HR that they had gotten fired. That's what I question. Well, HR is here. She can specify for you. No, I want to know what you heard. I just I just specified. And also, um, Commissioner McDonald, HR is here. So what I heard is what I said. I overheard the staff person telling HR that they had been fired. That's what I cannot witness anything that I didn't see otherwise. I can only give you a witness of what I've witnessed. HR is here and she can tell you what transpired.

Miss Prince. Okay. as far as the part about I wasn't at the end of the building when Miss Busy made that statement, but the employee that she made the statement that it wasn't working out. She did state that to me and she her words were verbatim. She said, "I don't know if I'm fired or not." So, I then told the employee that that is not how things work. I will have a talk with Miss Busy. But her words to me was she said this busy told her that it's not working out and she then followed up with I don't does that mean I'm fired. So she asked the question.

Yes. Miss Busy didn't say that she was fired. She asked the question. She asked the question to me and because I wasn't there I could not answer. I told her I would have to speak with Miss Busy. And did you speak with her? Yes, I did. And what you said? She said what she stated it was. I told her it wasn't working out.

Could you explain that comment? It wasn't working out. I'm just kind of at loss and just trying to make sure I'm putting the puzzle together, whatever it may be. The employee you mentioned to her, it's not working out. What would you reference to? What I said was it not working out and re and I will discuss that further with her. What I can I interrupt? Yes. Does that have anything to do with this whole thing? I'm asking the question. It has all I just want to make sure that you know we ain't getting off track here and which we have a tendency to do at times.

And that's what I was about to ask. We're here in reference to my understanding we're here in reference to the exchange of words between myself and Miss Clark. Mhm.

We as far as that with her that could be something else we can discuss but that in my opinion I said what I said it's not working out. That's it. We have since spoken since then. So that is not an issue here as far as I'm concerned and I don't think it needs to be addressed here because it has nothing to do with what we're apparent this meeting was called for as I've stated I take full accountability mayor and commissioners full accountability for what has happened that was not normal for me and I am willing to move forward if allowed and work things out. What my intent was to do was I was going to try to sit down with Miss Clark this week and have a one-on-one woman to woman because we have worked well together and things have happened that has kind of, you know, scarred that a little bit, but I respect her. I admire her and we were going to I want to sit down with her. I didn't think we had to be here. my email. I'm hoping that you all could talk to her as far as like I said the disrespect, but we have worked well together since I've gotten here and I would hope that we can move on, focus on resolving these issues and communicate respectfully with each other. You know, that's my position

and I want to further clarify the characterization of disrespect. Miss Busy and I are both charter officers. She is not my supervisor. I am not her supervisor. So, the email thread that you guys received regarding um lunch breaks, we're colleagues. That's just like another commissioner coming to you guys and telling you guys, "Oh, I want you here at a certain time or go take your lunch break at a certain time." You're you're colleagues. We are colleagues. We're both charter officers. The clerk's the clerk's office is a charter office. It's not a department. The charter doesn't recognize the clerk's office as a department. It's a chartered office. So it is it is it is a charter office.

I didn't realize you weren't finished talking and you don't realize to characterize an email. Pause for a minute. I don't need you to critique my behavior here. Continue. Miss Clark.

So to characterize my respectful emails back clarifying that we're both charter officers. We there the email threads are there. There is nothing disrespectful. However, in that email thread, I was characterized as disrespectful. Anybody can review that thread. It is in black and white. There is nothing disrespectful about my email response. Nothing. Even in this instance, I simply told Miss Busty to not disrespect me. That is it. I I don't disrespect her and I don't expect her to disrespect me. We're both adults. as as she said, we're both adults and like I said, I don't disrespect her. So to be told to shut up, anybody [clears throat] would be taken a back. Anybody would be taken aback, especially when you're performing your duties and to be told by a colleague. I'm not a staff member. So that's that's number one. We got to get that clear. I am not her staff member. I serve along with the the city manager, city clerk, city attorney. We all serve at the pleasure of the city commission and unfortunately there are codes that are inconsistent with the charter. Unfortunately, but again the city clerk, the city attorney, city manager, those are chartered offices and they serve at the pleasure of the city commission.

So, All right,

we we're going to go ahead and wrap up our final comments and uh recommendation if we have any. And I'm going to start with the vice mayor and work myself this way before we wrap up. So, um this is for the city attorney. Um, I've been I've been trying to just really wrap my brain around how this whole operation is supposed to work and I do understand that there's legislative authority as well as administrative authority. Can you shed some light on how that works uh in this um municipal government

attorney? Well, when you say legislative authority, I'm not I'm not clear because nothing's been written by the commission to address how charter officers, you know, relate to each other or anything, but administrative authority, the clerk is the person, she's the city clerk, and so she gets the RFP, she reports them, she releases them, um, and kind of, you know, keep track of that the manager he she he or she would put out the um the solicitation. Um they would put in into the solicitation what they believe is proper um and what they're looking to see based on the issue. Um if it is sent to me, I would review the solicitation to determine whether um there are any legal issues. Um, we've done these RFPs before, so I'm assuming they probably, you know, used something that we've either done or and I think maybe in this case they may have even used another city for the RFP if I'm not mistaken. So there's So that's the that's what the manager does. The manager, you know, puts it out. The clerk the clerk then releases it for it to go out for whatever bidding process. Sometimes it may go on demand star. Sometimes it may go to, you know, the the League of Cities and they may um send it out. Depends on what type of solicitation and how broadly the commission is looking to or the manager in many cases is looking to put it out. The manager would put um would you know let the clerk know and the clerk would then release it to um whatever um different entities she releases it to. Sometimes it's the commission that

says we wanted this to be, you know, to go to these different kind of things. That's the legislation, legislative authority. But in this case, I don't think the the commission voted on doing anything in particular regarding the IP um solicitation that I remember. Anyway, um so you know the the clerk um you know she is I think within her uh boundaries to feel that she wants to be careful about releasing um things that are supposed to be within her purview. She should certainly be um shared information. So if there is something where the manager is adding people to a committee or or whatever the case may be, the clerk generally would be um informed or advised of that. And um and that's pretty much you know that's pretty much it. I if there's something else that I may have missed, I'm happy to weigh in.

Right. I thank you for that spill, but that's not what I was getting at. Um, legislatively as the commission, I understand that we are the ones that the charter members are to respond to and um, adhere to our um, leadership and advisings, but administratively, the city manager is responsible for running the day-to-day operation, which includes all of the departments uh, within the city. Now again, some clarification is needed because the clerk just said that she's not a department. But even if she's not, she's a part of the city of Pokei. So if the clerk is not willing to adhere to the leadership of the city manager, uh then there um we have an issue. So um further clarification obviously

in this case, you know, you're chartered. I'm not saying that she is, but um I just throw that out as an example and my apologies for talking over you. Well, I won't I won't keep talking if you don't want me to, but I was just going to comment on what you said. Please do. Did you say go ahead? Yes, I did.

Okay. Yeah, your charter does not um put the manager over the city clerk. So she's correct. It is a separate um charter office and and what the clerk has always done is ensure that if you know RFPs are collected by her, they go to her um that she puts them out. You know, she's doing the kind of the the you know the the work around what the manager has outlined. This is what you know, this is what we're putting out. she's she she's actually doing the administrative work around putting that out. So, but she's not under the manager and she this performs separate and apart. Um it's not anything that the manager is over. So, I just want to, you know, just be be clear on that. Um, and when it comes back out, whoever the manager wants to have, if she wants to have somebody from the county sit on, unless you all have the legislatively said, you know, we want, you know, to see whatever, um, then she she is that's within her purview to say, "Yes, I'd like that." She just probably in going forward would want to let the clerk know so that the clerk is aware because you don't want anybody just coming saying, "Give me your documents or whatever," especially in a cone of silence. And so I think that is from from what I'm hearing that's the issue.

Thank you. You're welcome.

We're going to start with the vice mayor just for final uh comments and conclusion. [clears throat] My final comments are I I'm still concerned. Um, you know, I've heard both sides and um they both um you know uh should be held accountable for their actions. You know, in the heat of the moment, but when you're the leader, you should be able to control your temper. I mean, you're going off on the clerk. Um what's going to happen with all the other employees? And I know we have bad days, but that's not something that I'm expecting the um manager or interim manager of the city of Pokei.

You talking please be quiet. The city of um Pokei to do um because it's very unprofession. It to is very unprofessional. So my recommendation is going to be that we suspend the manager and the clerk for 5 days without pay. No, ma'am. Not at this time. You shouldn't be talking at all. Thank you. Um, M. Mr. Mayor. Yes, ma'am. Mayor. Yeah. I just want to say I don't think you all have it notice for that purpose and the notice need would need to be for the special meeting specifically tailored to that, you know, that suspension

the the suspension. Um, you you you certainly would want to plan for something like that. Um, you could, um, yeah, you would you would need to notice that. That's not I think that goes outside of what you have noticed. The clerk can read the notice, but I don't think that was a part of it. Okay. That was something you have to put maybe on a future agenda item at one of our regular meetings for consideration anyway.

Okay. you through with your final thoughts and comments, right? Okay. Commissioner McDonald. So, as a professional, I do agree that some action needs to be taken with regards to um discipline. However, I do believe that it needs to be progressive and the first time that somebody does something, you don't just, you know, crucify. Um, if you can address the behavior um in a progressive manner such as maybe a a reprimand or so on and so forth. Um, I think that's what needs to happen. Um, and again, I'm I'm going to take into consideration that the um attorney said that it needs to um come out as a um a notice to um be addressed later. So, um, but my take is that, um, we certainly don't want to have this type behavior, uh, reoccur. And, um, definitely, um, we need to have some accountability. Okay. [clears throat] I when I first heard about the special call meeting or the request of the special call meeting, I was a little hesitant to uh even approve it being done. But on the same token, it's two charter officers. And not only that, I had heard that the media even had got wind of some of the disagreement that occurred. I don't know where that came from, but that did at least uh was

brought to my attention. So, I could be in a lot of different places and I'm sure that other commissioners feel the same way, but it was something that needed to be done. We needed to address it and try to deal with it, at least discuss it and move forward from then on. also uh agreed that there should be some type of uh uh recourse or some type of corrected action made uh between a suspension and a reprimand. I do believe that most cases things do go in a progressive manner. uh you don't want to uh be too harsh on mistakes, but you want to make sure that the penalty that occur kind of fit the crime sorder. So, that's something we can be able to think about coming up to our next commission meeting. What type of action would be the most appropriate? I think both uh recommendation that was put on the table deserves some consideration regardless of what we end up doing in the long term. But my final concern and my final comment would be this to me is like the tip of the iceberg to what I'm seeing and what I have observed over the last few months. I think these things if it's not corrected will occur will occur again at some point. Uh and whoever in this role, we have to, especially if you're a new individual, you have to be able to be able to at least take some criticism and you need to be able to take some recommendations whether you agree with their opinion or not, but at least listen to what others

say. One of the best resources that I can think of is always and have been to refer to the city attorney when there was a disagreement between say like the city clerk or the city manager. And I think both kind of did that. They referred some of their concerns to the city attorney to see what direction they may need to go. some uh city manager haven't always did that and it got us where we are and somewhere now. Uh but I again would say that we just got to be cautious. We we we we have to look at everything that going on and everything that has went on to this point and just ask ourselves if this is the direction we would like to continue going in. And I know each and everyone say, you know, we're going to learn from it. We're going to move on. But there seem to be some patterns here. And that's what I'm looking at. The patterns that are developing and what we can do to maybe correct whatever pattern that may be. Commissioner Mike Pearson.

Yes. And uh include whatever um disciplinary action if any. think I think there need to be some professional development classes um included in that. Um I guess when we can handle that on our future agenda items, whatever you know is decided to to do whatever we decide to do as a commission. Okay. So at this time we'll have uh public comments if we have any city clerk. Do we have any public comments cards completed? Yes, sir. We have two. Thank you. The first one is Tamarcus Porter.

Move to the next. Then the next one is Cynthia Mitchell. She's okay. Please don't address me. Address you. The mayor because you said that uh the mayor. Okay. You can learn address the chair.

I know Sinclair was saying about being professional and being the leader, you know, and this that and the other when the busy and one night we were having a commissioner meeting and she ran out. She ran out of the meeting, couldn't ask her anything because she ran out. Now she want to throw the ball at Miss Busy. All your balls been throw at Miss Busy. Squa, get up. Get up off of her. Five days. You talking about nobody up there cannot and should not be let off for five days. The way the city hokei look. Everybody up there need to come together and work together. Five days, 10 days. And you want to give Miss Clark and Miss Busy, you talking about five days with that pay? Miss Busy probably can't go with that, but Miss Miss Clark have a baby. Think about people future. They family and come together. I don't know what it is you have against Miss Buster, but it's eating you up. It's eating you up. Let it go. Keith, let it go. Come with Miss Busy. And you said you never had a city manager to sit up there and said and did whatever Miss Busy and Miss Clark said. Qu, you didn't even let the pamper get wet before you calling for a meeting. Miss Busty and Miss Clark could have worked things out without all of this. And Keith, you said you never had a city manager to sit up there or had whatever happened with Miss B. It happen. No, you did not. And we know that's a lie. We know everybody around town in the world know that's a lie. You done had

Chandler Wig, whatever his name, Lucas, Johnson, those three. And you said you never had one like Miss B. I know you have. Come on. Stop it. You all stop it. This mean is uncalled for. is uncaused for unnecessary and you all s you you in the wrong field. You should have been a prosecutor and you weren't going to win no cases. I'm quite sure Miss Clark and Miss Buster would have worked this thing out. Small matter. Shut up. The word shut up. People use that word every day. Shut up. That's not being professional. She said something out, you know. I said something to me. Miss Bus is good. She said shut up. They give me bus a chance to work with Miss Clark. Did give Miss Clark to work with me. Busy already got on the phone. Called the problem. Can I take

No, Mr. He's not here. You didn't uh put in a card. So, no, you can't. I didn't think you had to. Yes, sir. No instruction saying that you had on special. I'm just asking can I speak? No, you can't sir. I'll entertain a motion for the journment of this meeting. M I move that we adjourn the meeting. Is there a second? Second. It has been moved and second for the German of the meeting. Call for question hearing none. All in favor? Roll call. Melon clerk. Vice Mayor Calvin Williams. Yes. Commissioner McFersonson. Yes. Commissioner McDonald. Yes.

Mayor Bab. Yes. Mean journ at 4:12 p.m.