City - Special Meeting

so far away did i change my mic let's let's walk okay it feels like a little bit short for some reason interesting sandra how are you looking we're good okay um and we're rolling we are okay good evening everyone uh it's 5 30 p.m we're at the special meeting agenda of the city council um today is wednesday june 3rd uh 2026 we're in council chambers 300 forest avenue and this is the special meeting i'm calling to order tonight at 30. we're having a special agenda um can i get a motion to approve the agenda which is one item council uh vacancy policy second motion by garfield second by emilio any further discussion hearing none um let's take a voice vote all in favor say aye aye any opposed i'll just note for the record that five council members are present councilman peduri will be here later this evening is not present for this particular session but we'll be present for regular session um go ahead and take item 1a into closed session consider the draft council policy entitled vacancy in elective office do we have any public comment on this item Do we have any hounds online that would like to speak either?

How many? Okay, go ahead, Mr. Murphy. There it is.

Good evening. My name's Don Murphy before I start. I want to thank you for the gay pride that flag raising. It's like to thank you and see staff is 1 of the best things you do every year and it makes me feel very glad to live here. Your goal tonight, I think, is to establish the council policy for filling vacancies. And the document that you have, the proposed policy, I think is really excellent. And I wanted to say good work on that. The policy is also designed to foster transparency. And to foster transparency further, I suggest that we could do better by adding a disclosure document Requirement to the proposed policy, this would require each city council member who communicated with 1 or more candidates during the selection period to disclose and briefly summarize that communication in public at the meeting when the candidate is to be chosen. And I would compare this to the ex parte communication requirement that you have when you consider land use permits. when if you've spoken to an applicant or an appellant or an opponent, you're required to disclose that. So in this case, I would suggest a simple disclosure along the lines, I'm giving you three examples. I spoke on the phone with candidate red about his or her qualifications for the city council. I met with candidate green and chatted about his or her thoughts about measure C. I emailed candidate yellow and chatted about his or her and suggested that she applied for the vacancy. These are simple disclosures. I don't think they would take very long. I don't think they would slow the process. And the purpose of them would be to foster really full transparency so residents and candidates have a clear idea on how the process worked and to have an open process, all parts of it in public, none in secret, and to make sure that all candidates are treated fairly. I don't think it's wrong for you to talk to candidates. I mean, this is a political process. It seems funny to say you can't talk to them, but I think if you do, you should disclose it in public. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Mr. Mogenson, would you like to take the staff report please? I just realized we're doing this in open session, so go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I believe that to their last meeting, we presented most of the facts around the staff report. So this will be very brief. Since that last meeting, we've made some tweaks to it. But what this policy generally describes is that when we have a council vacancy, the first thing that we will do is have an item on an upcoming agenda, hopefully the very next agenda for the council to talk about how they want to or the timeline. Of accepting applications for a new council candidate, and for eventually appointing in that timeline also will ask for people to submit or council members to submit questions so that we can distribute a question of peace for each council member to ask during the eventual interview process. So, on the appointment day, then the process that's described in this draft policy includes the mayor inviting each candidate up 1 by 1, and they will be given a time allotment of between 5 and 10 minutes, depending on how many applicants there are. So for this evening, I think what's proposed is five minutes because we have a number of applicants. And so after they do their five minute presentation, each council member will ask one of their question that they had submitted ahead of time to the candidate and the candidate will be given one minute to answer each of the questions. And then once all those questions are finished, that candidate will sit down and the mayor will invite up the next candidate. And the candidates have been placed in an order of alphabetical order. So after this process takes place, then we'll have a public comment period. After the public comment period is over, the deliberations will start amongst the council members. And we have two rounds of voting, basically, that have been outlined here. The first one is just nominations. So in the first round, each council member will nominate the candidate of their choice. And if there are four council members who nominate the same candidate, then we kind of stop the process or short circuit the process and it goes to the city clerk taking a roll call vote. and then we'll moralize that. If we don't get four on the very first time, then we go to round two. And round two, anybody who was nominated on that first round of processes is eligible to be nominated again in round two. So say we had four candidates who were, or three, I guess we got to think of the numbers here, how it would be possible. But let's say there's three candidates who are nominating the first round. Those three candidates are eligible to be nominated in the second round. But in the second round, now they need to get a second as well. So if a candidate is nominated and gets a second, now they're on the second group of, we'll call it a slate, if you will. Once that slate's established by you've gone through the process of nominating who you want to and getting seconds, the city clerk then will call a roll call vote. You'll vote for the person who you favor. And if you get to four again, then we're finished. If you don't get to four, then it defaults to the mayor makes a selection if there's a tie break or anything else. So that's what this process here describes. The only thing that also is included in this is if it happens that the mayor cedes the vacancy, then the council will go through a similar process and that it'll take four affirmative votes to pick one amongst yourselves to fill the mayor role until the upcoming election, basically.

So that's the way that happens.

If the council does not fulfill this role, then it automatically is the mayor pro tem who would step into that spot.

all right is that the conclusion of the staff report that's the conclusion okay sorry you can't move this along since we don't have a lot of time for it um so we've already taken public comment on the item we've now heard the staff report if you'd like to speak come on up you can you can give comment yep it was kind of jumbled up only on this item though sir you understand pardon on this item only There's not public comment? Not for anything else outside of this item right now. Okay, but later there will be. Yeah, later there will be. I'll just go back and sit down. Yeah, thank you very much, sir. Anyone else online? Because the beginning was a little off.

No, sir.

Okay, we're going to close public comment on this vacancy item special meeting open session. We've heard the staff report on the public comment, and obviously there was a deliberation. I wasn't here at the last meeting, but we're heavily deliberated on the item. I will just state out the front that I think this process sounds like a fair process that's been come up with by staff. I do support it. It does. It kind of, you know, we could go round and round about how it's done, but I think this is kind of a way to give everyone a chance to pick their person and also a way to get the field down to two or three or whatever, because numerically, probably that's all end up with one, two or three. And so I think it's a good process to go with. So I'm going to support the process as outlined on the staff report after. and you guys you know wrestled the issues before and i think you raised some good points that uh matt and the staff took into account in creating this policy so um that's where i'm at so now i'd like to hear from other people um go ahead councilman mcdonald thank you um yes so thank you very much for incorporating the conversation from last time but i just thought since there was a public comment about ex parte communications it would be good for us to discuss whether we think that would be good to add to this process okay um council member well

Yes, I agree. Actually, I do agree, and I was going to actually say that before we started, so I think that's great. I want to thank the staff for putting this together. I know we had some robust discussion last time, but I think it's good that it got us to a place that we can feel good about passing us on to the next council and the council after that. So I'm in favor, and if we want to add the ex parte piece, I'm good with that.

Council Member Garfield.

Thank you. May I ask a question of the city attorney? Of course. The expert in communication, is it for a conversation with somebody who has declared their candidacy or somebody who's thinking about it? Because that's a different, a differentiator of somebody who's just wants to know more about counsel and then they decide to put their name in versus somebody who says, I've put my application in and I want to talk to you.

That would be at the pleasure of the Council, however you wanted to define ex parte and what a communication was and sort of what would be disclosable. So if someone had their hat in the ring, you could make that distinction or, you know, if it was just, you know, talking with folks generally, that's a decision that you folks could make.

I don't have any personal preference about it on that topic, but I did think that those are two distinct phases of somebody. What I also wanted to say was, though, I remember what we talked about was, and when I was appointed, it was really meaningful to me that the group was not unanimous, not anonymous, unanimous. And it took some discussion and some processing to get there. And I hope that this will prove to allow us to do that because it really is a good place to start somebody new. So with that in mind, I support the process. I would like to differentiate. Have you ever talked to this person from once they have put their name in? Has there been discussion?

Yeah, so thank you very much. I'm just going to throw something in here. I think probably we have five votes for the process. And now we're kind of, and we can take that vote. That's fine. But now we're kind of talking about this ex parte thing. And so I want to lock in, you know, we got pretty much unanimous on the policy itself. The ex parte thing is, it is a very legalistic kind of thing. It's required in certain instances for like fair political practices, conflicts of interest and things like that. I don't know that I want to get into that. I because I'm not sure we haven't given the city attorney time to like look into whether we can force somebody to do that. I don't think we can force somebody to make that disclosure in this particular form that we're in and what we're trying to accomplish here. And it's not like a conflict of interest where you would have to.

John Potter, that's right, and it could be something where this policy was brought back amended to if you if you folks wanted to have a little bit more discussion about that or just you know, as the mayor indicated vote tonight, but with further direction to. John Potter, Look at ex parte communication something like that is how you could handle that.

okay yeah um that's just my thought on it i just it's it's a legal concept so it's kind of like we need to analyze what are the bounds of that without kind of making a policy on the fly i think it's dangerous i think i however think that even if we do um adopt it i think individual council members if they choose to state they want to say i didn't talk to this person or i did i think they can that's correct okay all right um council member

So the only thing I would add to this is because it's such a small community. I mean, these are our friends. These could be our neighbors. These could be our coworkers. So I think every discussion we've ever had with them is probably a little... punitive but i would say that once the process starts and their name is in the hat i would favor that disclosure because i think that's i think that for full transparency i think that so i would make a motion that we adopt this resolution and also send it back to the staff and to the city attorney for some additional language in the future that would state that

I'll second that. Would the pleasure of the council be then the ex parte to be disclosed once someone has put their name in for that? Okay. I think so. That makes the most sense. Yeah.

You can go forever.

But the motion is clear, though, and it's a two-part motion, and I'll second it. Any further discussion? Okay. We'll go ahead and take a roll call, though. Go ahead.

I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.

in the future we'll deal with that but as for tonight if you would like to disclose whoever you talk to or you didn't speak with anyone go ahead and make that statement for the for the public all right thank you so much we're going to go ahead and adjourn um to open session at 6 p.m regular session thank you very much Well, here we are. Good evening, everyone. It's 6 p.m. Wednesday, June 3rd. This is the regular meeting of the City Council. First meeting in June here at Council Chambers and City Hall, 300 Forest Avenue in Pacific Grove, California. We are here and I'm calling this meeting to order for the record. The six current council members are present tonight, all six. And tonight we will be picking a seventh. So stay tuned for that event. And at this time, I'll ask my colleague, Council Member Paduri, to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda. Item 1.

So moved.

Okay, we have a motion by Rao, second by McDonnell. We'll take a voice vote. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, passes unanimously. Sorry, Siri would like to get involved in the conversation, but I'm not going to allow that tonight. So we'll move on to item two, presentations. And we have a presentation tonight for Ms. Katie Clark, service award. And I'm going to recognize city manager, Matt Mogenson.

Come on up, Katie. So, once a year, we present service awards to our employees who have been here for certain periods of time. So we had a few this year, but Katie is the 1 who could make it. And so she's getting into initial ownership, but we'll give you the list of all those people pretty soon. um so katie's been with us for five years like i mentioned she got here at the uh coming out of covid so coming out of covid you guys would probably make sense that we didn't have much recreation programs at that time so she's had the opportunity to really rebuild the department so over the last five years um she's taken the program from i believe it was how many programs it was 10 I think, to over 60 last year. And this includes sports leagues, classes, all kinds of different programs, swim lessons. And last year we had over 2500 participants throughout the summer. So she's definitely take this and built it into something very, very good for our community. That includes actually 60 part time staff that with our HR department. They hire every single summer and then rehire them every year. So with that, I want to present anything to Katie. And Director Goh, would you like to say anything?

Matt pretty much said it all, but I do manage the Recreation Department through Public Works, and Katie is a true asset to the whole community and to all of us. And from city staff, we just are very appreciative to your five years, and congratulations. And we're hoping for another five years and ten years and to build that Recreation Department to the best one on the peninsula. So I know we can get there. Thank you, Katie.

I just want to say I signed that proclamation, so that's why I came down to take the photograph. all right thank you very much katie uh i'll let matt take a seat well before i ask him uh actually we'll go to council announcements first give matt a second to catch his breath any council announcements today uh councilman

Thank you, Your Honor. I wanted to say a special thank you to Matt, to Joyce, to Public Works, Dan and John, to PGPD, Chief Day for the pride kickoff today and the raising of the flag. It was really great to see so many from the community out there and the turnout was inspiring. So thank you to the staff again.

Mayor Mrakas, Thank you very much any further Council on council member more time.

Mayor Mrakas, I just we just had Memorial day and they wanted to bring up that was close to a million people that have were killed in the wars female and male and they were honored for Memorial day that's all I wanted to say.

Mayor Mrakas, Thank you for that all right and. I don't think we have any city attorney announcements, so I'll go to Matt Mogenson city manager for any city staff announcements.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just pulling together a couple of messages. So you did see a press release to this afternoon about a whale that's washed up. There'll be more information coming on that. So it's a little soon to give too much details. But look for that in your social media feed here soon. But I do also want to first ask George first, if he wouldn't mind coming up and tell us a little about George Washington Park Master Plan being available.

Mayor Smith, council members, I'm happy to announce that John Kenny, our urban forester, has completed a first draft of a George Washington Park forest management plan that is now live online as of last month and for around 30 days review before it is being considered at this month's BNRC meeting. So the third Tuesday of this month at the BNRC, they'll be considering that first draft forest management plan, George Washington Park, hoping to bring it to council shortly afterwards.

Thank you very much. I'm glad to hear Mr. Kenney is up and operational.

And one last thing, it's available on the city's website. There's a link on the news section on the front page of the city's website. And then the document lives at the document center of the buildings and grounds website.

Thank you very much for those that are paying close attention to it.

For some quick updates on our library activities, that's Rachel Gaither to give us an update.

Good evening, Honorable Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and City Council. This week, the library is launching its 2026 Summer Reading Program, which is titled Plant a Seed, Read. We have three programs specific to children, teens, and adults that will run for eight weeks. The children's program includes weekly Wednesday performances and activities at Jewell Park featuring science, music, magic, and family entertainment. The team program for grades six through 12 includes many hands-on events and a nature journaling collaboration with Monterey Bay Aquarium. Adult summer reading special summer events include music, arts and crafts, and an interactive presentation by the UC Santa Cruz Seed Vault Initiative. Just like last year, the summer program will culminate with a summer ice cream social for all ages at Jewell Park on July 29th. Last year, we had a really great turnout, and we look forward to community and council joining us again. For log sheets and additional details, please visit the library, go to our website at pgpubliclibrary.org, or give us a call at 831-648-5760. Thank you.

Thank you so much for coming out anything else all right that that'll do it for the announcements of the evening and now we're going to move to our general public comment dealing with matters subject to the jurisdiction of the city, but not on tonight's agenda. I'm going to get a show hands of who would like to make general public comment I'm Mr Davis want to keep them up please. And online can you we online consumers. I need to make general public comment to me, not dealing with an item on the agenda because I'm trying to manage the meeting tonight. We have a long item.

I see three in there, Smith.

Okay, we'll go ahead and we're going to go ahead and limit to tenants on the general public comment just so we can move to it. We need to get to our important appointment item and that's going to take a couple hours. So we're going to give two minutes right now. We're going to take chambers first as always. So anyone in chambers, please come up. You'll have two minutes to speak and please queue up and don't wait for other people to go up. Go ahead and come on up.

there make sure this is working okay yes um i'm david erickson a local uh business uh small business owner disabled veteran um and part of three generations of erickson's here but i just want to address the uh cannabis again i know that it's not on the agenda for tonight but with the uh lottery coming up The more research I've been doing into it, the more I'm finding that there's a lot of lawsuits that have taken place after a lottery event, like this type of event, where other cities have had to fork out tens of millions of dollars to settle all of these disputes after the fact because it wasn't properly documented such as it has been in our policies here. But referring to how the state was, the state would come back and actually grant them the... the lawsuit on it, and they would have to end up paying all these companies after the fact. And so my biggest concern is just making sure that's getting addressed and voicing public opposition to doing the lottery and trying to get the DCC's guidance a little bit more to find out how we're supposed to proceed according to the state level so we don't end up in a state court paying out millions to people just because we didn't follow how the state would have had us do it.

Thank you. Thank you.

Next, please. Please queue up if you're going to be left, you can come to one of these seats in the front.

Hello, I'm Sandra Lehman. I'm the chair of the Recreation Board, and I just wanted to give you the information that we are exploring the possibility of a dog park. We're still in the very early stages. We're looking at options, trying to get answers to questions, listening to what people have to say. When we get to the point that we have anything more definite, we'll bring it to the council.

Thank you. Thanks, Amanda. I appreciate it. Go ahead.

My name is Richard Davis and I had a 3 minute. Thing plan, so I'm just going to try to wing it. Okay.

No, that's probably good. Yeah, there you go.

Thank you. Is this better clock over? Um. I'm here to get something on public record. Um, on past city council meetings. 3 to 4 years ago, there was a consent agenda on the flag raising that we just. Saw today, and I had some questions about it and I emailed all the city council people, the mayor and. Harvey, who was a city manager at the time asking them about diversity and inclusion and equity and I asked him all I said. If all these things are. A diversity inclusion and. Excuse me, I'm lost in my place here. Anyway, I asked them to explain to me what non diverse people are. If these people are diverse and nobody could answer the question, every single council member doesn't ask that. I'm asking any of you today the same question. Explain to me who is non diverse. All right. The best I can after years of research is Our founding fathers are non-diverse from your point of view. And everything talks about inclusion, all right? Well, when they put this on the consent agenda, you violated the Brown Act. The city violated the Brown Act because it is controversial. Anybody that watches the news, anybody that's in our public domain these days, they know it's controversial. And it was passed to me illegally against the Brown Act. Mayor Peek, I contacted shortly afterwards and he told me, well, Rick, it's done now. Let's talk about this next May. And I went over several times to the lighthouse where he's a volunteer and asked him specifically about that. So he said, well, we'll talk about next May. I got hope next May and they already passed it. And it might understand like a permanent resolution. I think it needs to be revisited.

Okay, thank you. We understand the comment. If you would like to make further comment, I'll tell anyone this tonight. Can any of you answer the question of who non-reversed?

It's not a Q&A, sir. I apologize. All right. I would appreciate it if you would answer my emails then.

You can email the council any question you like.

I have that exact question and never got a response. Okay, thank you. It's not a Q&A. We're not doing that.

Good evening, everyone. Vince Tuminello, local resident. I'm here because it's the post-election period that we all hung by nails waiting to find the results. And I found out that as I think it was Babe Ruth said, it's not over till it's over. Well, if it's not over yet because all the votes weren't counted, it takes California, Monterey County quite a while to officially declare the results of the yes or no on seat. And it wasn't that close an election. It was about, so far it's about a 500 vote in favor of no one C, not in favor of it, but people who voted no one C. And there was a lovely photo on the Monterey Now page on the internet of groups of people gathering in anticipation of the excitement of how that was going to turn out. So we have to wait a while. um i have some comments about c because uh it's not over so in case it comes up again or this issue comes up again just because other cities or other municipalities are giving raises to their city councils a position which since the inception of pacific grove has been a public service position with a stipend to cover monthly expenses. Lately, it's been almost $500 a month to cover public expenses. It was never designed at any time, including the present, to be a salary. It was an expense account, basically. OK, so for people to be referred to it, however, they get the idea that it's a salary is absurd. And most people I talked to voted against it because they didn't like the way it was handled by the council, granting themselves one hundred and thirty five percent raise. OK, just to let you know, there's some bad feelings on both sides, but the majority had the bad feelings against your voting for it. the what you call a raise really in a stipend increase so there's some confusion thank you the two minutes goes by quick i wish we had three minutes thanks next online thank you mayor uh 0-2 you have the floor good evening my name is nina beattie

Local one-line telephone service is under immediate threat of discontinuance by AT&T. Customers will have gotten their letters probably last week. And they also want to end lifeline service and other obligations. And I ask the city to take action to stop this. Copper line landlines are essential infrastructure built to last. They work even in extended power outages and in most disasters. The lines are powered, including making your phone ring so you can reach 911 and your doctor receive evacuation notices, stay connected to elderly and ill loved ones, and so others can connect to you. You don't need batteries. This service provides pinpoint location data to emergency responders when seconds count, a fire when someone is choking, has a heart attack or stroke. The voice quality is superior, the system is secure, and it doesn't drop calls. The lines also provide DSL internet. AT&T's carrier of last resort status, or COLR as it's called, requires AT&T to provide basic phone service to everyone who requests it without discrimination. Voice over internet protocol and wireless, the alternatives are notoriously unreliable and even unavailable in many areas, and they require batteries. When the battery dies, there is no connection, no phone service. Disasters routinely knock them out. Thousands of people testified to the CPC about how landlines saved their lives during Northern California fires around their homes after PG&E turned off the area's electricity. AT&T has now launched multiple simultaneous efforts to deregulate themselves at the FCC, the CPUC, the California legislature, and in the courts to get out of COLR, lifeline obligations and landlines. And it recently filed multiple petitions to the FCC to eliminate landlines and lifelines on the Monterey Peninsula and Salinas. The petitions to the FCC will be automatically granted if there is no opposition. Comments are due June 22nd, so just a few weeks. MontereyBayMatters.org has instructions and an overview of the situation. AT&T is also suing the state of California and the CPUC to stop its regulations. In addition, the state bill AC89 would amend the state constitution to remove telecom company's designation as a public utility, remove CPUC oversight for telecom companies, and limit oversight for all public...

Hello.

Hello. My name is Ephraim Erickson. I'm not sure if my dad spoke a little bit ago. We're sitting up in the press box for y'all. I'd just like to bring a little bit of light again to the corruption that's going on as far as the lottery going with the cannabis. And I think that even as a citizen who has public information and I can see that there's a discrepancy in what's going on, you guys as sitting city council members should be doing a better job vetting the people that are coming into this lottery so that we don't have issues like what's going on. The reason that it has gone on to the third phase where eight candidates are all run by the same same lawyer same all for the same location same everything if you read what they all put for the for the questions it's all the same answers just regurgitated into different forms i mean it's it's blatant and the fact that people can see it but you guys are just sitting there not willing to take the lawsuit when you guys have policies that you guys have to follow at the state level that you guys are neglecting to follow because you guys want to cover your ass but we elected you in these positions so that you guys could do right by our city and putting somebody in that's going to be corrupt even before the lottery is going on is not even a good idea. I mean, because what happens when they get in there, it's just going to mess us up as a city. Thank you. That's all.

Thank you. Thank you. You have the floor.

The issue I want to raise tonight is what was said in the debate to continue the marijuana lottery before the vote to move forward. It was noted that the legally defensible option is to let the process play out. Allegedly, the lottery winner still needs to make it through the planning commission, obtain a use permit in the city, quote unquote, still has to vet out each location. I was under the impression was all said that the application fees had already been spent on a deep vetting of the locations to even qualify for the lottery. the planning commission and others that the council's relying on now to do the work, those are advisory committees. They advise you. The council was elected to be the final decision makers. This didn't have to be written off as an inherited problem from a bad ordinance in the past. There could have been another choice. And the mayor has said this before. Start over. I respect the council members are cognizant in the last meeting that the money had already been spent on this in-depth vetting process that apparently occurred. The applications for the storefront were touted to generate a lot of revenue. It's unclear where that revenue has gotten us. PG taxpayers just funded a special election yesterday for $63,000 in order to just raise the compensation of seven elected officials. We all know how that went. The city residents want revenue, and I'm sure they also want the weed. Everyone keeps saying that, I'm sure, because everyone keeps going back to how Major N was approved. But that's not the issue. Mayor Mrakas, we're all let ask what is the true cost of refunding the application fees is it worth selling off the ethics of Pacific growth. Thank you.

Mayor Mrakas, For the hands I raised Mr Mayor.

Mayor Mrakas, All right, thank you very much that'll close out general public comment for the evening we're going to move on to the consent agenda dealing with routine and non controversial matters. Mayor Mrakas, and. For the consent agenda, I'll ask, do any of my colleagues wish to pull an item of consent? Seeing none, I'll ask the public, would anyone in the public wish to pull an item off of consent? Seeing none, we'll go ahead and bring it back to the council for action on consent. Second. Council Member Paduri will get the first on motion and second by Mayor Bertram Emilio. Any further discussion? Seeing no, we'll take a voice vote. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. Consent will pass unanimously. All items have been approved. And that'll bring us to the main event for the evening, item 11A. On the regular agenda, this is a selection of appointment to fill city council vacancy and administer the oath this evening to that selectee. So at this time, I will recognize Mr. Munson to start us off. So pay close attention. There's a lot of moving parts. We're going to try to make it as simple as possible.

Thank you Mr. Mayor. So at 530 this evening, we have a special meeting with the council finalize this policy, but this policy came to be after I believe 2 other. Evenings we brought this forward and you and you vetted it and came up with the best the best documented to you that you could. So the presentation or the process tonight is going to consist of the mayor, you know, one at a time, inviting each candidate up. They will come up in the alphabetical order and each candidate will be invited to give a five minute presentation on their qualifications. Following that, the council members each have prepared a question that they will ask each candidate. So each candidate will give will hear 1 question. They will be given 1 minute to respond to that question and then we'll continue down the road. So there should be a total of of us. 6 questions.

Yeah.

5 questions that you'll be asked this evening. after you've been asked all your questions and you give your one of the responses you know you can return your seat we'll do the next one and then when we get to all the counselors candidates having their presentations um at that point we'll do public comments so anybody who's here to comment on the applications applicants will have the opportunity to comment then and the council will start their deliberations um the first the first round of voting will consist of each council member making a nomination should the council come up with four, with a nominee, a nominee being nominated by four different council members, then we've kind of already read consensus, so it'll go to a roll call vote of the city clerk. If that doesn't happen in the first round, we'll go to a second round. And the second round, anybody who was nominated in that first round is eligible for the second round. To be in the second round of voting, you'll need to be nominated once more, and then this time you'll need to get a second vote from a different council member. So every applicant or candidate who gets a first and a second then is eligible for the second round of voting. Once that's complete, the council is exhausted, you know those names and those they wish to put into that roster. The city clerk will do a roll call vote. And if again, 1 of. 1 candidate gets 4 votes, then where we've reached a consensus or the consistent we need and if not at this point, it will go to the mayor to make a tiebreaker or any other kind of deadlock that might exist.

So.

in essence is two rounds basically a voting and then followed by the mayor having to make the tough decision if we get there. So Mr. Mayor with that I'll turn it over to you to start your.

Okay so bear with me here so I think what we're going to do is now at this time we're going to ask Mr. Bentz to come forward is that what we're doing? Okay we're going in alphabetical order no particular no uh no special anything just alphabetical and uh mr bentz i believe you'll have five minutes to address the council is that correct Okay, and you'll start your clock as soon as you start speaking.

You'll have five minutes. All right, go ahead, sir. All right. Hello, everybody. Good evening, Council and people of Pacific Grove. My name is Ben Bentz. I'm honored to be up here alongside some incredible working professionals and community members. I was born and raised here on the Monterey Peninsula, and I have the pleasure of raising my two under two here and teaching middle school here in Pacific Grove as well. Pacific Grove has this beautiful blend of historic charm and natural beauty, and that's what makes it so attractive. But the people, the people are what make Pacific Grove so special. There's this harmonious balance between young families and retirees and everything in between that make Pacific Grove so incredibly special. I truly feel like maybe the last small town in the county and the most incredible place to raise a family, I can attest to. I think this needs to be protected, cherished, also represented. So I think there's incredible representation of the incredible working professionals and retirees of the city. I would like to represent the families, the young people, the renters and the people who were born here that just want to stay here. In addition to that, I wanna represent the kids, students that I work with every single day, that I have the pleasure of seeing who we are passing this to. I know what they are like, I know what they need. And in terms of, in addition to being a role model for action, I also refuse to just pass on our generation's problems to the next. I believe in leaving a place better than we found it. so to do that i want us to be not just climate change aware but climate ready i would like us to have financial transparency and accountability i truly believe that there is infrastructure needs for families here you've done amazing work with the stop signs on congress i think we need more of that we need more stop signs crosswalks safe places for families anybody who has a kid and have tried to push a stroller down Pacific Groves knows there's not infrastructure for that, which also brings up accessibility concerns in terms of, I can't imagine trying to be in a wheelchair and enjoy this beautiful city. There's infrastructure needs there. We have amazing parks that are so well loved, but also incredibly in need of some changes in development, which I would like to see in continuation of the incredible community programs that have been growing since COVID times. we also need to protect and cherish that balance i was mentioning earlier so that by through affordable housing i think people need to be able to come back go have an education go get professional experience come back and if they choose so raise a family because that's how community is protected through those stories through the culture and passing that alongside the future generations i see that slipping away in my hometown of monterey and i would really hate to see that with pacific grove as well i am a teacher i bring proven collaboration problem solving and communication skills from my daily career. I have experience in community programming and program development, conservation, and DEI work with my time at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. I was on the Parks and Recreation Commission for the City of Monterey, so I know what it takes to improve parks and community programs. I currently serve on the PG Museum's board where I am their standards and practices chair, focusing on attention to detail and policy and fundraising. I volunteered thousands of hours of service in my young career here, and I want to continue that as well. I received recognition from the aquarium as ocean leadership award recipient and through CSU Monterey Bay with distinction in the major for outstanding service to the community. So I want to continue that. I want to represent, I want to lead, and I want to collaborate with all the council members to truly meet the needs of this city and its constituents. I truly feel like a board, a city, any service is only as good as not only its incredible experience, but also its representation that matches its constituents. And I would love to be that for the city. So thank you for your time and thoughtful consideration.

Thank you very much. Now at this time, we will have questions for you, Mr. Benz. So please remain. And I'll recognize we're going to start with Council Member Garfield out here on the left side and work our way across to the right. So go ahead and we'll now have one minute. You will have one minute timing for response. Awesome. Thank you.

Pacific Grove is fortunate to have significant open space in our parks and shoreline. What do you think the city's responsibilities are for these parks, particularly Washington Park?

First of all, I love Washington park love taking my daughter there she loves pointing at the trees and the birds I think it's really important that we protect these spaces and. also have a sustainable future in terms of conservation and fire management for especially parks like George Washington also safety measures in terms of storms being prepared as well. To ensure access.

Thank you.

Just we'll just keep going fire good fire away guys.

It occurs to me that I didn't make a statement, but I wanted to, and we talked about full transparency. I have not had a conversation with any of these candidates since they've announced that they're running. Okay, I just wanted to make that clear.

Sure. And I'll give Councilman Garfield a chance to, if she would like to, would you like to make a statement?

sure well this is a good way to try and see how this works all right um so i appreciate the opportunity yeah um i have not had a conversation with any of these candidates since they were announced that they were um that since they submitted their applications and became actual candidates okay thank you very much at this time before we sorry mr and so no one else would like to make a statement about that go ahead now otherwise we're gonna just move forward yeah i'm the same kind of like as tina and cynthia thanks okay yeah same for me ditto

For me.

Okay. So no one did. Okay. So let's go ahead and move on with the questions. Question two.

Sure. Subject that has come up that has motivated you to run.

Yeah. Well, motivated me to run is my, my kids. And not just my personal kids, the kids that I teach. I just truly want to represent them. I want to be a role model for them. I want to lead. As I mentioned before, I want to make sure that. we are not leaving behind the same problems that we have now. Also, as someone who is supporting a family on a teacher salary, I know how hard it is to just stay in this place that I love. And I really want to continue to encourage those efforts to keep the locals local and continue this cherished history through stories and community engagement. Thank you. All right, next, sir.

Hi, Ben. Thanks for coming. So my question is, how do you plan to balance the interests of a vocal minority

against those of the broader community well that's a great question i think it's important that we may have our own personal opinions but as council members we would or as a prospective council member obviously it's important to represent the entirety of constituents with respect with care even if we don't agree find ways to find compromise and if that's not possible to still treat those comments in those groups with respect

Thank you. And just let's get the timer on each question. So the public at home could see it. He's not taking the full minute, so it's not becoming an issue yet. But California, Amelia or Mary, thank you.

Describe your experience working with different stakeholders, such as some of the grave businesses. And so the grove residents.

Yeah, so I mentioned a little bit of my experience with the Monterey Bay Aquarium. In addition to being a volunteer there, I also worked there for four years before COVID in guest experience, marketing, and education. I volunteered in interpretive programs, education, and leadership roles. I also served on their volunteer advisory council for about seven years, pushing diversity, equity, inclusion, movements, and programs there as well. I also serve on, as I mentioned, the Pacific Grove Museums Board, and I represent and work with the families and students of this community at my work every single day.

What are two important issues facing Pacific Grove and how would you address them? How would you propose addressing them?

Great. Yeah, I think the first issue that comes to mind is infrastructure. So that includes sidewalks, safety, parks. I would love to see some more infrastructure. surveying i would love to see some community meetings i would love to see some fundraising and be a part of that potentially as well and improving that and having that match it's the constituencies constituents as well as i mentioned before affordable housing and keeping that balance between the community members and people being here i think it's important to have some policy some more policy work and collaboration on council

All right, that's all the questions that we have. And so now at this time, we can do the next candidate, I believe. Am I correct? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Bents. Thank you so much. Hang around. All right. We're welcoming the second candidate for tonight, and that is Shalai Booker. I think I said that right.

Shalai, yes. Hi. Hello, everyone. After that, I don't know if you really need to see anybody else. I am a long time resident of Pacific Grove, born and raised third generation in this area. I did go away for a bit and then came back to Seaside. So I have been around for a while. I am aware that this is a temporary position and that is first and foremost why I thought, why not jump on this little road trip and see where it will take me. I do recognize that we do have a very diverse and eclectic mix of families and seasonal residents newcomers and old timers so to sustain the charm and the community that has attracted such a wide range of people we need thoughtful discerning leadership that does not sit in the seat of a community service with an agenda in place I have worked in city government for my employment with the City of Monterey in the Museums and Cultural Arts Division. My time there allowed me the chance to see the city government work and the impact decisions they made behind the dais affect the community. I currently hold a position at the Community Foundation for Monterey County. I'm blessed to be able to hear the issues that affect all Monterey County from disasters, housing issues, education shortfalls, and health matters. I have the privilege of hearing people speak from the nonprofit community and business arenas and the challenges they face. The beauty of my position is that I can hear some of the answers from those people who know how to alleviate those pressures. I would like to offer my assistance in making those decisions on behalf of the citizens of this town. I've lived on the peninsula growing up in Pacific Grove, and after a stint in Seaside, moving back to my childhood home. Both my parents grew up here. My father attended Robert Down, as well as my maternal grandfather. My parental grandmother commuted by buggy. from Point Lobos to Monterey to attend high school in Pacific Grove. I have a rich heritage in this community and I would like to give back to the place that shaped my family so that my children can enjoy the special place in the future.

Thank you. Thank you. And now we'll go through the questions.

so pacific grove is fortunate to have significant open space in our parks and shoreline what do you think the city's responsibilities are for these spaces particularly washington park um washington park is very special to me i grew up a block away from washington park so that was my playground and i really feel that is necessary to

treasure those bits of our community that make us special. There aren't very many places that have open forest like that that you can ramble through and that also provide an environment for all the native plants and also the wildlife that we have here. So it's very important to steward those open spaces well.

Thank you.

Go ahead. Thank you, Your Honor.

Is there a subject or an issue that's come up that motivated you to throw your hat in the ring?

I've just attended a couple of these meetings and I just felt like maybe a local voice that's been here for a while, decades, would be refreshing. So no in particular issue.

Thank you and welcome to the party. So my question is, how do you plan to balance the interests of a vocal minority against those of the broader community?

I believe that everybody should be heard and then just be able to understand where they're coming from and actually work with people that do have a different voice. Even if it's not what everybody else is going for and wanting, I think that they need to be heard and respected and actually see if you can come to some sort of resolution with them or answer that would...

help them come into agreement with everybody else if that need be thank you describe your experience working with different stakeholders and such in such pacific world businesses community organizations and pacific residents

I just recently joined the Heritage Society. My role when I was working for the City of Monterey was for the Museum and Cultural Arts Division. I did have the opportunity to work with the museum that we have in Pacific Grove and collaborate with them as well as the library. So my interaction with businesses in Pacific Grove has only been me buying coffee downtown and going into shops, but I welcome the opportunity to work with all different types of organizations and businesses.

Okay. And what are two important issues facing Pacific Grove and how would you propose to address them?

The housing issue is a really big issue. I don't know how I would address those problems. I think that there needs to be some discussion about our situation in the housing arena. I I live on a street where it used to be a neighborhood with a lot of different people that lived there full time as I was growing up. And later on, I would say about 75% of the houses around me were vacation rentals. And I really think that we need to address something along those lines of I don't know, just having people live here full time. I really think that that's something that needs to be addressed.

All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. We'll move to the next person on our list by name. And that's Tara Llewellyn.

Thank you very much. My name is Tara Llewellyn. I first came to this area in 1999. I was a military officer stationed at MPS. Came back to get my PhD at MPS. And then last year when I retired from the corporate sector, decided to make my home here. I did not have the chance to grow up here. I grew up in Chicago, but knew when I came to MPS the first time I wanted to live here. It took 20 years of savings to be able to make that happen. And a few years ago, my husband and I were able to make that commitment to buy a home after years and years of traveling back to the area and trying to figure out how we could make it work. My career is one of public service. I had 22 years in the military. I finished as the Chief of Staff to the US Ambassador to NATO, and I ran US-Europe policy at the White House. After that, I went into the private sector for about a decade, where I worked at a major bank and two major insurers. And that really shapes what I think I can bring to the Council. Certain things, including while I was in those insurance roles, I was the head of sustainability. So I was very focused on how climate risk was interacting with insurability. And so one of the things I think about a lot is how do we balance living in an urban forest with people being able to afford home insurance so they can actually stay in their homes and they're not forgoing that in order to be able to stay in this community. I also have obviously operated the federal level at the White House. I'm currently on the California Governor's Military Council, so I also have a state level responsibility, and I think I can bring those skills here to Pacific Grove to contribute to the community. Finally, I'm also a small business owner. So when I retired last year, at least, or stepped down out of the corporate sector, I decided to start my own business. I own a consulting practice that's focused on corporate affairs. Really what that means is I focus on sustainability, strategic communications, community engagement, and strong governance and risk management. All of those things are things that I think I can bring to the council, particularly in this interim role. I'm going to be really honest. When I left the White House in 2014 after serving in the military for 22 years, I did not think I was going to do public service again. I was exhausted. I had done two years of 90-hour weeks, and I really thought I had done my time. We're living in a really extraordinary moment, and I think this is a moment for leadership. And so this is a time now that I've settled. I'm here. I want to that have had a little bit of a chance to rest um have a chance to bring those skills uh back to our community in a different way thank you thanks very much um now we'll go to the questions

Pacific Grove is fortunate to have significant open space in our parks and shoreline. And what do you think the city's responsibilities are for these spaces, particularly Washington Park?

Yeah, it's a great question. And what's really interesting is I'm currently in Leadership Carmel. So we're actually working on a project with Forest Hill Park, which, as you know, has garnered national attention. So deeply familiar with parks and recreation in our community. 1st, and foremost, the city's responsibility is to promote the, the health and welfare of its residents and the vibrancy of the community. And so things like. Ensuring that our natural resources are used to help families thrive, provide recreational opportunities for families, provide a natural environment. I mean, we're blessed. Right, but we have, and so we have to really preserve those resources so that we have access to those sorts of resources that enable people to thrive. The more people are out in the outdoors, the higher they generally have a stronger mental health. And so I think we have a big responsibility to think about how our natural environment affects the families that live here and what we need to do to promote it. At the same time, we've got to be careful about fire. Right. Like we know that there are families that are for going home insurance because they can't afford it. And so we have to be really fire wise. I've looked at the GW plan.

I'm sorry about that. We're heading to the time pretty well. So go ahead, Jo.

Thank you. First of all, thank you for your service. Is there a ministry or subject that came up that motivated you to run?

yeah definitely it's the fact that we live in this extraordinary time when i've seen what's happening with the federal budget and the changes that it has created in even in our community we think about what's happened with the department of education how that is rolled down into funding for special needs for example that's part that's a big part of what motivated me to really think about what's my role given what i've done in my past and how can i contribute going forward so That really got me going. And then also the proposals about putting oil drills off, you know, in a marine sanctuary, right? Like things like that, we don't stand up and be heard. Then the challenges, it'll just keep rolling downhill and our community will be forever changed.

Thank you.

Hi, Tara. Thanks for being part of the community and for being here. My question is, how do you plan to balance the interests of a vocal minority against those of the broader community?

This is where I think I bring some special skills, given my background in corporate affairs. When I was in a corporate role, I, in partnership with the Aspen Institute and Facing History and Ourselves, created a program called Better Arguments, which actually brought communities together to talk about divisive issues. We went to Detroit. to talk about newcomers versus old timers. And there needed to be some respect building around that. We went to Denver to talk about the cost of housing. We went to Houston to talk about the schools. And so the best thing you can do is put community members in direct dialogue with each other and have facilitated conversations, because that tends not to change anyone's minds, but it tends to bring the conversation to a more civil space and bring people more together.

Okay, I'm up next here.

Describe your experience working with different stakeholders, such as Pacific Grove businesses, community organizations, and Pacific Grove residents.

So multiple stakeholders has been my career, whether it was sustaining the coalition in Afghanistan when I was doing NATO work, getting chemical weapons precursors out of Syria when I was at the White House, things like that. Like when I was in the corporate sector, bringing stakeholders together to work enhance our community relations. You know, I'm in the community now every day, right? Working with businesses, I help local nonprofits with some of their funding issues. And because of my experience across the public, private, and nonprofit sectors, I think I can bring a lot to bring community together and ensure that issues have a chance to be surfaced and heard from multiple stakeholder perspectives.

Thank you.

And what are two important issues facing Pacific Grove and how would you propose to address them?

I echo everyone else who's spoken around affordable housing. As I said, it took my husband and I 20 years to save enough money to be able to buy a little one-bedroom house here, and we're glad that we did. So I think that more programs like that are incredibly important. We've got to figure out a way to promote home ownership through unique needs. They've done it in Marina. They've done it in Seaside. There's ways that we can do this. And so really thinking about how can we help families who want to be here be here. That's one. Two, I mean, just outside our coast, this is some of the most beautiful territory on Earth.

And if oil drills start showing up, it's going to be a huge loss.

Luckily, most of the emphasis is on Southern California, but we really need to be wary and partnering with other governments to make sure that the voices of those who live in Pacific Hills are heard to prevent that from happening.

All right. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. And we'll take we're going to take our next candidate. And this will be Nicholas Moreland.

Good evening Honorable Mayor and members of the City Council. Thank you first for the opportunity to speak to you tonight about the vacancy on the City Council. My name is Nicholas Morlum and I am a dedicated resident, an active public servant of the city, and a father who is deeply invested in the future of our community. I am committed to Pacific Grove, and I am motivated to do my part to ensure that this wonderful place remains a vibrant, sustainable, and forward-thinking community for the next generation. My volunteer leadership experience within our city government has provided me with a thorough understanding of local governance and policy. Having previously served as the chair of the Economic Development Commission and currently serving as a commissioner on the Planning Commission, I understand how to be efficient in meetings and appreciate the unique balance that is required to preserve the historic character of Pacific Grove while fostering responsible economic growth. Professionally, I serve as the director of development for the Lucille Packard Foundation for Children's Health where I manage philanthropic priorities for maternal and infant health at Stanford. My work involves oversight of complex fundraising strategies, including the hospital's west building renovation project. This position requires sophisticated budgeting, financial forecasting, and long-term strategic planning. These skills are directly applicable to maintaining the fiscal responsibility of our city. Beyond my professional and civic roles, I am deeply rooted in the cultural life of Pacific Grove. I teach piano lessons locally, and I previously served as the director of music at St. Mary's by the Sea Episcopal Church for several years. Furthermore, my foundational values were shaped early in life as an Eagle Scout, which instilled in me a lifelong commitment to environmental stewardship, a value that I know sits at the heart of the identity of Pacific Grove. I am eager to expand my service to our city because I want to help amplify the excellent direction that this current leadership is taking. My combination of local commission experience, professional financial oversight, and deep community roots qualifies me to serve the residents of Pacific Grove effectively from day one. Thank you for your time, your hard work, and for your consideration.

Thank you very much for questions.

Pacific Grove is fortunate to have significant open space in our parks and shoreline. And what do you think the city's responsibilities are for these spaces, particularly Washington Park?

Absolutely. As I mentioned early on, it was instilled as an Eagle Scout that you always leave the environment. Not only do you not leave a trace, but I think it's also we have the responsibility to leave our incredible environmental areas in better situation than we even have them today. I think that's the requirement that we have for the next generation. I think that that is really one of the true treasures of Pacific Grove. And I actually see that at the council, we can promote that every citizen of Pacific Grove actually has that responsibility as well. We can model that through the policies that we emplace to protect our vital spaces.

Thank you.

Thank you. Is there an issue or subject that came up that motivated you to run?

Yes. So in my role on the planning commission, I do know that the housing, so we are so fortunate to live in this incredible place. Not everyone has the opportunity. Housing is an incredible issue that has not, that inspired me to be on the planning commission, but then also I see that that is a value. That's one of the main goals of the current council. And I want to be part of that. That's something that I think that's really can address everyone to have access that wants to be part of this incredible community. That's what makes this place so incredible and vibrant is the diversity that we can bring in, and that's something we need to work on.

Thank you. Hi, Nicholas. Thanks for coming. And my question is, how do you plan to balance the interests of a local minority against that of the broader community?

Yes, so I'll use as an example, you can imagine the housing element provided a lot of different voices in the planning commission. 1 of the ways I think it's very important is that you do your work before the meeting, because if you show up to the meeting, those who sometimes have the time, or sometimes can be a negative voice against the. progress you're trying to make for the city. I think it's important to hear those people out and a lot of them do write in. So are you forming your questions? I think it's important to also ask the questions. So if there is an issue that you really needs to be addressed, ask it into the discussion element before you actually take a vote, come prepared to the meetings. And then also you can imagine as a music director, I had to keep 50 people all on the direction to keep the music moving forward. It's the same thing. You address their needs. You see if it's in line with the direction you're trying to move the city while making sure that everyone is heard when appropriate.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Don't forget to turn the mic on.

Describe your experience working with stakeholders such as Pacific Rail businesses, community organizations, and Pacific Rail residents.

um so when i was the chair of the economic development commission we were in the middle of the pandemic we had stores that were closing in our downtown so i actually saw that it was my job to first bring them into the meetings that we actually had for economic development commission and we actually had them present what are the needs what are the concerns of the council itself one of the issues was looking at for for people who are in our wonderful restaurants do they have the right child care support we actually started those conversations itself in my role at saint mary's is a very community-based organization so we had a lot of opportunity through there as well thank you

And what are two important issues facing Pacific Grove and how would you propose to address them?

Yeah, so I mentioned earlier the housing situation. One of the things that I know we can definitely look at is using the staff as our partners. I think that's a big role of the city council. And are there things that they could need? For example, is the timelines needed for those? We just have the housing elements completed. The timeline needed to move projects forward. what can we do to work with our city staff what resources do they need that's something that we can look at almost immediately the other issue is of course is um our budgeting we have a big uh pension uh requirement as well and then looking at what are some of the new revenues so we actually i'm currently on a sub commission A subcommittee for the planning commission, looking at our downtown and looking at what is the long 10 year plan that the planning commission level can do to implement some of the revitalization things that can really improve. But looking at a long term strategy, and I do know that was an item about 2 meetings ago, looking at the stop signs. That's really exciting to me that that also aligns of that is 1 opportunity of many when addressing some of the budget issues.

Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you all. We're going to go to we have two more candidates next. We're going to hear from Kimberly Pie.

Good evening, Mayor and Mayor Pro Tem and Council Members. My name is Kimberly Pye. I've lived in Pacific Grove for a little more than four years, and I currently serve as the Secretary of the City's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Task Force, which has given me the opportunity to work with fellow residents, staff, and Council Members on issues affecting our community. By day, I'm an attorney. I currently practice complex civil litigation and insurance coverage law. Don't get excited. And before that, I worked for Open Door Legal, a nonprofit law firm serving low-income communities in San Francisco. A lot of what I do professionally translates surprisingly well to local government. My job is to take complicated issues, gather information, listen to different perspectives, analyze competing arguments, and make thoughtful recommendations. That essentially is what good governance is. Before entering private practice, I spent several years working in public interest law, helping people navigate family law matters, housing issues, and other legal challenges. Those experiences taught me that listening is often more important than talking, and that good decisions require both facts and empathy. Outside of law, I'm an avid wildlife photographer and a scuba diver. Those pursuits have given me a deep appreciation for our coastline, our natural resources, and the unique character of Pacific Grove. I'm seeking this appointment because I care about Pacific Grove and because I believe I can contribute immediately. I also want to acknowledge the nature of this appointment. This isn't a permanent seat. The voters will decide who represents them in November, and I respect that process. I'm not viewing this as a platform for a future political career, and I'm viewing it as an opportunity for public service now and a chance to contribute where I can during this interim period. If appointed, I would come prepared, do the work, listen carefully to residents and staff, and approach issues with an open mind. My goal would be to help the city make thoughtful, well-informed decisions during this interim period. Pacific Grove is a wonderful place to live. It has truly become home for me, and I would be honored to serve it in this role. Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you so much. Questions?

Pacific Grove is fortunate to have significant open space in our parks and shoreline. And what do you think the city's responsibilities are for these places, particularly Washington Park?

I think Pacific Grove's parks and shorelines are among our greatest assets, and I think Pacific Grove's responsibility is both stewardship and accessibility. We need to preserve these spaces for future generations to enjoy, but also ensure that residents and visitors can enjoy them safely and responsibly. As a wildlife photographer and someone who spends a lot of time outdoors, I appreciate how special these places are. As far as Washington Park specifically, I would want to understand the current challenges that that park faces. I'm going to download that forest management plan. And I would want to hear from the residents, the staff, and user groups before reaching any conclusions. But preservation and responsible public access, excuse me, public access would be guiding principles.

Okay. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah.

me to speed this along. Is there an issue or a subject that came up that motivated you to throw your hat in the ring?

No, no single issue motivated me. It was the chance to serve. Since this is an interim position, I saw this as a chance to just serve and bring my professional experience and community experience to this position. I'm not interested in, I don't have any sort of agenda that I'm bringing. I just thought this was a great chance Um, to help the city make thoughtful decisions and, uh, to support the work that needs to be done during this time. And then, um, the voters. We just until November, and then the voters will make their choice.

I can really see you here. Um, uh, my question is, how do you plan to bounce the interest of a vocal minority against those of a broader community?

I think the first step is to make sure everyone is heard. Often the vocal minority is saying things that other people share, but they're not saying. At the same time, elected officials have a responsibility to consider the interests of the entire community, including people who aren't attending meetings or aren't saying anything. My approach would be to listen carefully, gather as much information as possible, and make decisions based on what we believe is best for Pacific growth.

Describe your experience working with different stakeholders, such as physical businesses, community organizations, and typical residents.

Yeah, my legal career has largely been about working with people who have very different interests and priorities. I've represented individual businesses and nonprofit organizations, insurance companies throughout California and other states. Through the DEI task force, I've also worked with residents, city staff, community members on local issues. One thing I've learned through that is that effective problem solving starts with listening. And then even people who disagree on solutions there's often more common ground than first appears.

And what are two important issues facing Pacific Grove and how would you propose to address them?

I think one issue that Pacific Grove is facing is maintaining infrastructure while remaining fiscally responsible. I think a second one is preserving what makes Pacific Grove so special while also adapting to changing needs and state requirements. I think in both cases, my approach would be similar and probably this has been a theme is gather facts, understand the financial impacts, listen to stakeholders, and then make thoughtful long term decisions rather than short term ones. I don't think every issue has a simple answer, but I do think good process leads to better outcomes.

All right. Thank you so much. Appreciate that.

All right. We're on to our final candidate for the night. Applicant, I should say, Chris Thomas.

Hey, I think I'm the new guy here. Good evening, Mayor Smith, Mayor Pro Tem Emilio, Council Members Garfield, McDonnell, Rao, and Paduri. My name's Chris Thomas, and although I'm allotted five minutes to present myself in qualifications, I'm only gonna take four. You're welcome. You have my resume, so I'll use my time to tell you about my personal background and what life experiences I can bring to this position. I grew up in San Antonio, lower middle class, single mother, the product of public schools. My neighborhood and school friends were an even mix of Hispanic and white, so cultural diversity was a part of my early life. In 91, I moved to Philly for grad school when the city was on the brink of bankruptcy with a $219 million structural deficit, the largest in the nation. It's half a billion dollars today. It borrowed money at a usurious 24% and the city had raised taxes 19 times in the previous 12 years, making it the most heavily taxed major city in the United States. In Philly, I experienced firsthand That decisions about budgets, pensions, infrastructure, and economic development aren't just numbers on a spreadsheet. They directly affect public safety, quality of life, and residents' confidence in their government. That perspective would help me evaluate city council decisions with a focus on long-term fiscal sustainability while protecting the services Pacific Grove residents depend on every day. Fortunately, Philly solved its fiscal nightmare and it's experienced a huge cultural renaissance. I watched the State of the City address here, and kudos to this Council for your forward-looking financial stewardship. I did live in Chicago, beautiful Chicago, for 10 years, enjoying its fantastic ethnic enclaves, different cultures, religions, and languages living side by side. Due to the confluence of personal and professional reasons, we moved to Texas. When my daughter started college in California, my wife and I began visiting the Central Coast, and we fell in love with the natural beauty of the people and the culture. I'm not from PG or even California. I've lived in six vastly different cities, thrown a few months in New York City and Tokyo, and I've been fortunate enough to travel internationally a fair bit. Having lived in large racially and culturally diverse cities, I gained experience interacting with people from a wide range of backgrounds, cultures, and socioeconomic circumstances, which taught me the importance of listening carefully, seeking common ground, and recognizing that effective public policy should serve all members of a community. It helped me develop the ability to work with individuals from different backgrounds and build consensus around shared community goals. I walk our youngest dog, Maya, about four miles a day or about 100 miles a month around Pacific Grove. Our walks provide me with a gravel understanding of the community. They allow me to observe neighborhood conditions, public infrastructure, parks, and pedestrian safety. These experiences help me evaluate city issues, not only from reports and budgets, but from the perspective of the people who use our public spaces every day. I love to chat with residents, and I'd always be happy to include them in the governing process. As a Pacific Grove City Council member, my education and professional experience allow me to offer financial literacy, strategic planning, and community engagement. My weakness is a lack of municipal governance, but I've learned to ask a lot of questions, lean on experts such as the city staff, evaluate information critically, and use a lot of preparation. Since I'm from San Antonio, a Spurs fan, and the first game of the NBA Finals between the Spurs and the Knicks is happening right now, let me end with a sports analogy. There are some highly qualified and well-known City Council candidates in this selection. I know my appointment's a long shot, well outside the three-point line, probably closer to a half-court lob, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. If I'm not selected, I won't see it as a defeat. See it as meeting the coaches and getting the ball back sometime to shoot for board or committee appointment from the free throw line. Thank you.

Thank you. Well, now we'll have questions. Thank you, sir.

Okay, question. Pacific Grove is fortunate to have significant open space in our parks and shoreline. And what do you think the city's responsibilities are for these spaces, particularly Washington Park?

So I walk through Washington Park a lot, walk my dog through there on the trails. It's all got a ball field and restrooms. Um, I think a couple of specific ideas would be a playground and the dog park, um, for use by old families and the very pet friendly community. You could do those two things, save the trees, and clear out a lot of the underbrush, undergrowth, I think. So I think it's large, the back part of it's well underused, and those would be a couple of specific suggestions.

Thank you. Thank you.

Is there an issue or subject that came up that motivated you to throw your hat in the ring?

You know, I'm fortunate enough to live here, moved here on purpose, and I'm retired now and I have the time. I want to give back. I really, really appreciate the protection of natural resources and human rights. I've lived in areas that didn't have quite that protection for those things, and I'm really proud of what the community does for those here, and I want to be a part of that.

Hi, Chris. Good to have you here. My question is, how do you balance the sports fans versus the Knicks fans? Just kidding. How do you plan to balance the interests of a local minority against those of the broader community?

You don't ignore a minority. Listen to them. They have good ideas. Just because they're in minority doesn't mean that they don't have good ideas. You have to have the empathy to listen to a minority, but you have to have the courage to make the decision that benefits the most people. And if you can make the vocal minority understand the reasons for the decision and get buy-in, it'll help. this is probably one of my weaknesses i've lived here a couple of years i don't have a lot of experience with a lot of stakeholders yet um you know pacific grove residents i chat with them a lot on my walks i think um don't have the empirical evidence but off the top of my head i would think the main the things that they appreciate the most are public safety um nature the trees and the historical architecture so i think a balance uh among all of that's important um You know, I experienced a little bit of working with the city. I added on to my house. When we moved here, it was a 2-1. I rebuilt the garage, made it a 2-2, and added to it. So I have an experience with the permitting and licensing process for those. It was a little more cumbersome than I was used to, but in the end, I understood it. I think it all made sense. you know, $25,000 to move my gas meter 10 feet.

All right.

And what are two important issues facing Pacific Grove and how would you propose to address them?

um one i think is the 21 000 21 million dollar deficit in the next 10 years um for you know capital structural improvements i can't solve it right now but um like philadelphia i think you have to have creative ways to raise revenue and creative ways to maintain expenses that's going to be a long-term project um Second, there's something smaller, but I see it a lot when I walk, the e-bikes. We talked about that earlier. The kids scare me to death when I see them doing wheelies down Forest Avenue without a helmet on. And I'm worried about their safety and other citizens' safety as they may get hit by them. So I think enforcement and education of the kids and especially the parents as we mentioned earlier in the meeting, would be very important as technology moves faster than our laws.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it, Mr. Thomas. And now that will take us to the next part of this, which is going to be the public comment on the candidate presentation tonight. And so I'll ask how many folks out in the public would like to speak on this item? I see only one. That's it? One? Okay. How about online? Anybody want to speak on this item?

Mayor, I see two hands so far.

Okay, we'll go ahead and just give three minutes. Come on up. We'll take chambers first, and then we'll take folks online to come in on our applicants tonight.

Mayor, Mayor Potem, and council members. My name is Stephanie Flanagan. I'm a Pacific Grove resident. It's fun to recognize a couple of faces. I want to recognize the many amazing candidates that you have coming forward for this. And I'm honored to boost the voice of one of the young people looking for this job and want to encourage you to choose Ben Benz for this job. I love that after getting his chops together as a teacher and a spouse and a new parent, he's expanding his energy and his efforts to continue developing his leadership and by contributing his energy and his efforts to our communities. I met Ben in the aquariums team conservation leader program in 2014, when he was a first year conservation leader and I was a first year advisor in the program. The team program at the Aquarium just turns out some amazing young leaders and Van is one that stood out from his first year as a really cooperative, enthusiastic, thoughtful, positive person who really enriched the whole After his initial year as a teen conservation leader, he continued to move through the program. Year two, he applied, interviewed, and got the position as one of six coaches that led a group of teens through the summer. leading exercises to build community, providing coaching to aid growth, providing positive modeling for his students. In the years three and four, he was hired by the Aquarium, first as a teaching and training ambassador, and then later as a program assistant who supported the entire program. In 2018, he left the nest of the aquarium to go to Boston, where he was in charge of a middle school zookeeper program. After returning to the aquarium, he was a frontline staff in 2019 and 22, working with the teens and responsible directly overseeing groups of kids. These weren't the limits of his involvement. He was part of the student oceanography club between 2015 and 2020, both as a participant and then as a leader. Finally, the aquarium leadership was so impressed with Ben that they asked him to serve on the volunteer advisory board, which he did from 2018 to 2025. I'm really happy that Ben wants to represent young families by contributing his energy and insights to build a future where those raised here can afford to return with their education. Thank you.

We got another one in chambers.

Hello, good evening. My name is Dr Antonio Gallardo. I am a former professor for Benjamin Benz here in support of Benjamin Benz. He was a long time student. I was his professor during his undergraduate phase of his education, which culminated in him becoming a credential teacher. He spent the better part of four years under my direct supervision. I felt and still feel very privileged to have had that opportunity. I should add that Ben was a student during probably one of the toughest times that I've seen students go through, and that is COVID. The thing about COVID that really impressed me about Ben is that he didn't survive like the others. He thrived. I can't put enough emphasis on that. It's very rare as not only students, but as human beings. And that set him apart and I never forgot that. He went on and I was privileged enough to have him again. Long story short, he became a credentialed in student, which is the graduate phase of becoming a teacher. Very rigorous one year, very intensive as far as CSUMB goes program. and again who knew he thrived there were dropout rates to sustain to show that this program ends people's careers before they begin and he thrived he was assigned to an underprivileged underserved school in the community in the local county And again, did incredible things and distinguished himself. This is a very, very special human being. I have witnessed probably thousands of students come through my doors in the last 20 years as an educator. And I can tell you, he is among elite status. And I cannot recommend him anymore for that. But what really, really, really sets Benjamin Bennett apart is his inner fortitude, his character, the non-tangibles, the things you cannot measure, the things you will never find on a spreadsheet. Notice I am a man of color. He represents me. I can tell you that. He's made a life of service, and he is in the most noble profession. I can assure you he's young. I went to his wedding. I've seen him at children. And I cannot be any more blessed for that experience.

And I hope he serves you well.

Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Gibbs.

City Council, my name is Mike Gibbs. I really wasn't going to speak up. I just came to listen. And I guess I'm a little disappointed. I don't have a candidate. I don't know, really, like the council. I haven't talked to any of these folks and don't know them personally. But the disappointment was that in their opening statements, I didn't really hear an homage or anybody say, you know what? We depend on our business community here, right? We have some of the greatest restaurants on the Mononoke Peninsula. Some of them are highly ranked nationally. People come here, visitors come, because as everybody recognized we're a beautiful and vibrant place, they want to be a part of that. But they come because there is a business community that serves them, whether it's a shop, a restaurant, or other services that are here in Pacific Grove. And we have some great ones, the Beach House and Dango. I could go down the list. There are a myriad of really wonderful places to eat and to visit. And I was really shocked that really none of the candidates mentioned the business community. It is a huge part of this. It's a huge part of our income. Mr. Thomas, I believe, mentioned the structural deficit We all know about that. It's getting wider. It's not getting smaller. Capital projects are being winnowed out because we don't have enough money to fix everything. I didn't hear too much discussion about that. So all I'm saying is that as you have your discussion or you make your choices, really think about the community out there. These folks generate revenue through taxes, sales taxes, TOT. We have a brand new Kempton and property taxes. And we have the ATC somewhere out there. It's been approved by the Coastal Commission. That's going to be a big subject. So the only reason for mentioning this, I realize it's temporary employment. It's not really the right thing. But really, these people will be on the job for five or six months. It's a big, long interview. It's a big, long way for the people of the city of Pacific Grove to meet whoever this next person is and say, hey, I want to vote for that person, right? The district I'm in is Paul Walking Stick's district. It's not up until 28. And I just would like to see somebody out there that you all would appoint that has more of a focus and enthusiasm for the business community. Thank you very much. Thank you for the comment.

I'll go online. I suppose Luke's up there.

Thank you, Mayor David. I know you have the floor.

Hello, this is, oh, there we go. My mic is working. Hello, everyone. I'm Navita Marlowe. I'm a researcher in Monterey County, particularly looking at education, equity and urban design. I wanted to make a statement of endorsement towards Benjamin Bence, amongst many of the other reasons mentioned by our fellow community members, as well as Mr. Bence himself. I felt necessary to bring in his background, particularly with education policy and with addressing education and education outcome gaps for K through 12 settings. Working with him, I'm a researcher for outside the box education. We've looked into education equity as well as the funding that each student receives within the different areas of Monterey County. Proper as well as Pacific Grove and his attention towards addressing particularly equitable policy around education for K through. 12 students within the county has been astounding and it's something that in discussions he's mentioned wanting to push forward, particularly in the course of policy. His work as an educator, be it in the K through 12 setting, with outside the box education, with ensuring outdoor green and blue zone equity, particularly with the Ventana Wildlife Society, and informing young people on issues of sustainability. His work has truly been in fostering young minds that are driven towards curiosity, driven towards ambition, and has facilitated communications as well as partnerships within the community to better serve the community with the community for the community. In addition to that, in the area of urban design, particularly looking at how shifting. Public infrastructure and shifting public works in order to both not compound urban stressors that disproportionately impact low communities. But in addition to this, allowing for community governance. Ben Benson conversation as well as an actions towards education policy has largely moved forward, not on the basis of random polling or through broader discussions, but has really tried to allow the community to form its own government and work directly as a representative of the community. He does not operate with agenda, does not operate from a place of believed interest, but rather with direct in line communication with the community for the community to better serve the community thank you so much for your time and thank you for the wonderful candidates that have spoken thus far thank you thank you

This is Sharon Miller, longtime Pacific Grove resident, and I just want to say that I have been so inspired by the number and quality of applicants stepping up for this short-term city council position. It's a talented, experienced, forward-thinking group that you have to choose from. We're sure to end up with a good council member. And I trust that those who aren't chosen now will continue to contribute to our beloved Pacific Grove. Thank you for stepping up. Thank you for being here. And I'm looking forward to see what happens next.

Thank you.

Thank you. I too was not expecting to speak on these candidates, but it was a very impressive group overall. And certainly Ben Benz brought his own cheering section. And that's interesting because I was most impressed with him. And I don't know him. I've never met him. I'm not young. I don't have kids growing up or here anymore. But I was also, I mean, I was impressed with him. And interestingly enough, I was shocked at Chaps Paduri, our councilman there, his question of vocal minority and broader community. I wonder how he defines and separates this vocal minority meaning people who are involved and speak up, or broader community of what, sheep that follow? I don't know how he differentiates between the two, but I was very shocked by that question put to the candidates. One thing that seemingly all of the candidates did bring up was the very best way is to listen because even a vocal minority will have good ideas and often very knowledgeable ones thank you very much yes thank you uh

Hello, I'm back. I'd just like to say I think that all the candidates did a great job, and they all seem to have really good critical thinking skills. And most, if not all of them, have a really good background, whether it be in the private or public sectors. But I do think that Tara, she would be the best option for you guys. She's the most qualified. She has the most leadership ability that would help you guys to stop rambling like you guys did last week for an hour and 35 minutes to not even change a thing about. what was going on. I mean, she's got a background in the military with the Air Force. She worked in private industry and worked in the Obama administration. So if you're looking for somebody with experience and with an idea of what's actually going to be going on, she'd probably be the best person. Other than that, everybody else did a great job. And thank you guys for hearing me out.

Thank you. Mr. Mayor.

All right. So that will close our... Yes, we're going to take a break. So I appreciate that suggestion. It's becoming, yeah. Okay. No, there was a lot of information and I will just echo the comments that we have some very talented people that applied for this and we really appreciate all of you so much for coming out. And and then we're going to come back and we're going to deliberate and and select so uh we will go let's go to 7 45 10 minutes 11 minutes 7 45 sharp recording stopped

recording in progress okay

hello everybody we're back from the break we're in the middle of 11 a tonight we're doing our vacancy uh selection process we've heard from uh the candidates and we've asked questions of the candidates we've had a great presentation thus far it's 7 47 p.m as we come out of the break and now We will deliberate and vote for the desired candidate. So at this time i'm going to follow a procedure so forget just bear with me while I get my bearings and check with staff to make sure we're doing this as we have agreed upon earlier tonight. So we've covered steps one, two and three. We've taken public comment and now we're at the deliberation and first slate nomination phase. So we're on the policy, that's page two on the policy. We're at item one, council deliberation and first slate nominations and the mayor and each council member will provide oral comments if they so choose and an oral nomination of their top candidate. So at this time, we'll start with council member Garfield on the left and work our way across. and provide any choral comments that if we choose to and a nomination of the top candidate at this time. I'm sorry, I have a hand up, yes.

Can I ask a policy question? My understanding was we would have council discussion first before we make our nominations or are you asking us to make our own argument and our nominations so we don't have the benefit of hearing each other's opinions first?

We're going to just make our nominations and our comments now. We're not going to do that. Okay, go ahead.

So, thank you for the clarifying question that does tell me what I'm supposed to do. So, um, I, 1st of all want to echo what heard from others is that we are. So appreciative of a really, uh. talented experienced uh interested group of people um we are very fortunate the city is very fortunate and i would really hope and i think my colleagues will echo this is that if you are not selected for some reason we really hope that you will find a way to uh be more involved in the city And I have a border commission noted for each one of you, should you be interested in finding out where you might find yourself contributing. I'm just really appreciative of the generosity people have shown and the talents and skills they bring with them. My personal issue and having been an appointee myself is that it is a lot to get up to speed on in a very short period of time. And my overriding concern is how can we get somebody to be contributory proficient comfortable and and sitting there as if they've been there for a while and for that reason because of his experience in the EDC and with the Planning Commission I'm going to nominate Nicholas Moreland thank you very much councilmember Rao

Thank you. And I, I do agree with Councilmember Garfield. This is really once again an embarrassment of riches. I mean, I honestly believe we could put any of these names in a hat, pull it, and we'd have a great next five months. And that's not I'm not kidding. In addition to the boards and commissions, I would say that there's also district elections coming up for 1, 3, and 5. We also have an open at-large seat in 2. And some of you may not have thought about running, but I hope you do, because you will crush it. That being said, I agree with you that we have to have someone who has experience. It's, you know, it's not something, this is not something, it's such a short runway that you have to be able to take off quickly. And I think if you have border commission experience, if you have border commission experience in the county and other cities, I think that will help you to be successful. And I just, I feel like we're making Sophie's choice here, but I would like to nominate Ben Benz.

OK, so just for the record, we have one nomination for Nicholas Moreland and then we have one nomination for Ben Benz Benjamin Benz.

And now we're going to council on the.

And I would like also echo some of the comments that are coming across here. It's certainly a wealth of riches. I really appreciate all of you, first of all, standing up, kind of tossing your hat in the ring, going through the motions with respect to what is going on. I know it's a short stint, but certainly it can feel like four years. So I would say that to me, again like comes down to what can you achieve in the short period of time and what can the council really get uh get the best benefit out of the four for uh for the four four to five months here and so so my my recommendation is also nicholas uh moreland uh for the for the position um i think uh i've seen him work before i think he's uh undergone i would say if nothing else, the test of like quite a few things within the town. And so I think it'll be beneficial for the council to have him. I also feel that it's not just the council working with the appointed council member, it's also the staff working with the council member. And so you need to have somebody who has already been there, done that, And to be honest, I would have a different opinion if, Nicholas, you were not running for this position. But I think you're better suited for this job. That's where I am. And I truly would like to, again, recognize all of you. I would also say that in addition to the boards and commissions and whatever not with districts, we also have the pg usd like the school district i mean so i i see some of the candidates here uh you you know who i'm speaking of but like generally i think it's a it's a great way to serve the community in more than one way uh so so looking forward to working with you guys at some point in time but uh but thank you for for being here and thank you for your time thank you very much so that's a second nomination for nicholas moreland

I'LL GO AHEAD AND DO IT NOW, JUST MOVE ACROSS THE DAIS. I AM VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE PRESENTATIONS TONIGHT. AND I DO AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES THAT SERVING ON ONE OF OUR COMMISSIONS IS CRITICAL TO LEARNING THE INTERWORKINGS OF THE CITY AND JUST KIND OF HOW THINGS WORK HERE AND GIVING RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL. And we have a couple of folks that meet that criteria tonight. And I think that the work experience that from a variety of the candidates was exceptionally good for what we do. And critical thinking skills and. listening and taking in information gathering information and then analyzing information is really kind of the main skill that you have to have as a council member along with working with people working with staff working with your colleagues and the public and the public out there and you know in various public settings and various community groups and interest groups because It was, it is tough to differentiate some candidates just with, they do have similar experience. However, the candidate that rose to the top for me tonight was Nicholas Moreland. He's an active public servant. He's a father in the community. And he's done a lot of work for the city of Pacific Grove. the edc and the planning commission and so i think that um that planning commission experience is extremely important uh for council experience because it's some it's kind of like the next thing when you're talking about planning um building and planning is critical and an infrastructure of what we do up here in the council so um that that was and also his background with um revenue growing, fundraising, and fiscal issues, I think make him a very strong candidate. And like I said, I think all of these folks could plug in real nicely. And your phone will be ringing because I'm going to be calling some people for the next council appointments to the commissions in January. So expect a phone call from me. I have your numbers now because you provided it to me. But- But yes, so, you know, you might get a text from me on New Year's Eve, so you never know. But tonight I'm going to nominate Nicholas Moreland. It'll be the third nomination for him tonight. Go ahead, Mayor Pro Tem.

Okay, thank you. it's first of all um all of you have been excellent i i want you to know and anybody could have come up here and served i i truly believe that uh and to have uh put it this way you're in an airplane which maybe some of you have you're gonna land someday uh somewhere And I think when you're landing, you've got to make sure you have the experience. And I'm not talking about a pilot, but an experience with the city of Pacific Grove. And what's going to be best for the city of Pacific Grove? I've always said that. What's going to be best for the city of Pacific Grove? And... It's been repeated several times. I'm not going to go through it, but it's important that somebody take this and run with it because it's, what is it, four, five, five months or so. I'm going to nominate Nicholas Moreland, I believe. Yeah, Moreland. He's got the experience. He's got the planning commission. He's got the economic development commission. He's done a lot of stuff in the community in regards to being a musical director at a local church. I think that's important that he's involved in the community. And that's important for everything. So I'm going to nominate him for that position.

Okay. That'll be the nomination that we've reached for, but at this time I want to allow councilman McDonald to give her statement and her nomination.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And, um, It is great to see that we do have so many qualified people who care so much about Pacific Grove and want to contribute. And I definitely agree. There are so many great ways. And now we're kind of getting a look at what talent we have and who might be able to provide great leadership in the future. I do agree with everything everyone has said. When I was reading the resumes and again and listening, for a similar reason why everybody has nominated Nick, and I think he'll be a great option as well as Ben, and actually anyone, who stood out for me was Tara because of her deep experience in policy. And we kind of have a short-term opportunity for somebody who could participate for a short time, not interested in the long-term career, but really has some deep insights in how federal things could impact our city and bring that expertise to us in a way that could be very beneficial in a short period of time. Obviously, with that government background, that would obviously help with our community as well and would be able to jump in from having had that experience in other cities, though not our own. So for that reason, I would nominate Tara, but at the same time, I don't have any issues with any of the people who would serve because I think you're all exceptional. Thank you.

Thank you so much so that we've kind of hit the point in the policy on the turn of the city attorney miss city attorney should to formalize this selection should we would we would have the clerk because we have 4 nominations so I think should we memorialize that with a vote or should memorialize it with a vote and then I can bring them up and swim in a number of move move to. Appoint Nicholas more into the interim seat to the vacancy open up. Okay, we have a motion by the mayor, second by the mayor pro tem. Any further discussion? Okay, we're going to take the vote now. All in favor say, or actually take a roll call. Sorry. Yeah, we did a roll call on that.

That's okay. Mayor Pro Tem Emanuele.

Aye.

Mayor Smith.

Aye.

Council Members Garfield. McDonnell. Aye. Paduri.

Aye.

And Rao. Aye. Motion carries 6-0.

All right, we're having this vote.

congratulations uh nicholas moreland uh you've been selected as a council member be careful what you wish for um okay uh so now are we gonna yeah yes why don't you stick around we're gonna take a little break after we swear in mr moreland and then we want to talk to some of the candidates that stuck around i think they're all still here yeah don't let them leave okay okay so go ahead sandra Should we have him come up with a video?

Yes.

Okay, come on, Nicholas.

Testing, testing.

You can swear or affirm. Sometimes people will affirm with religious beliefs or backgrounds. So if you are ready, I, and state your name, please.

I, Nicholas Moreland.

Do solemnly swear or affirm.

Do solemnly swear.

That I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

That I will, sorry, say that again.

That I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

That I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And the Constitution of the State of California.

And the Constitution of the State of California.

Against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

That it will bear true faith and allegiance.

That it will bear true faith and allegiance. To the Constitution of the United States. To the Constitution of the United States.

And the Constitution of the State of California.

And the Constitution of the State of California.

That I take this obligation freely.

That I take this obligation freely. Without any mental reservation. Without any mental reservation. Or purpose of evasion. Or perfect, sorry. Or purpose of evasion. Or purpose of evasion.

And that I will well and faithfully.

And that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties, discharge the duties on which I'm about to enter upon which I'm about to enter are complete.

Thank you. Welcome.

Yeah, we're going to do a recess. I'm going to have them sit down first.

So we're going to take a five minute recess and we'll come back at 810. We're going to take a little recess, talk to the candidates.

Recording stopped.

Not for me.

Doesn't matter. No, it was good. It was good.

All right. Where are we back? No, we're not back. Back. We're not back.

Okay. Welcome back, everybody. It's about 8.15 p.m. We just appointed our seventh council member, Nicholas Moreland. We're missing. We lost another one, but no, it's not. I'm not going to call it a vacancy yet. Okay. Not prepared to do that. So, we'll, we'll search for our 7th.

Yes.

Okay, here we go.

Yeah, we're on to 12. All right.

Yeah. Oh, okay.

Mayor Mrakas, Alright, so we're up here on 11 B as actually it's it's an 11 item 11 be artificial intelligence policy and we're going to recognize choice hallaby deputy city manager to give the staff, thank you very much, thank you, Mary good evening honorable members of the Council.

Mayor Mrakas, The item before you tonight is a Council policy related to artificial intelligence. recommendation associated with the item is to adopt a resolution establishing an ai policy it would be council policy 200-7 alternatively the council can take other action related to this item so kind of ground the conversation what is ai the definition that is included both in the policy um and on the screen here is the united states code definition of ai it is quite long but it is essentially a machine-based system that can for a given set of human-defined objectives, make predictions, recommendations, or decisions influencing real or virtual environments. AI systems use machine and human-based inputs to perceive real and virtual environments. And it goes on. But essentially, you can think about it as a computer system. This is a much simplified version, a computer system that can think, learn, and make decisions like a human. AI, I do want to preface, is like an umbrella term. uh that encompasses an array of applications technologies and subfields so you'll hear a lot about like generative ai that is a subset of artificial intelligence as an umbrella term and there are many many that fall under ai So a little bit about AI, it's definitely not new. We're hearing a lot more about it in recent times, and that's in large part because of generative AI being more tangible to the average layman starting in kind of 2022. But it's behind a lot of everyday tools and applications that people use on a daily basis. So you can think about any sort of navigation assistance when you pull up Google Maps or Waze that has an AI component there. When you talk to Siri or Alexa, that has an AI component. When you're sending a text message and it's predicting the next word that you might say, that's an AI component. When you are on your streaming platform, Spotify, Netflix, and it's recommending something that you may want to watch next, that's an AI component. Same with fraud alerts for your bank accounts, right? It's detecting an anomaly in your transactions that is different from your normal behavior and alerting you to that. So it's been in existence for some time. Recent advancements, again, around 2022 have made AI tools much more accessible. Cities and government agencies across the state and country are actively harnessing AI tools to better deliver product services and to enhance efficiency. These are just some common examples on the screen, but in cities where they have residents that speak different languages, they're actively using AI to provide translation services, to translate materials and documents. There is real time transcriptions during meetings that makes meeting content more accessible for folks. There's some really interesting infrastructure analysis that can be done for like pipes under the ground. There's some really robust systems where they can predict where a pothole is going to form based on like traffic pads and road conditions. So there's some really like powerful tools here. There are website chatbot assistance where a resident can go to the website, ask a question, and the chatbot could provide an answer based on the content on the website instead of having somebody kind of poke through various subpages. Traffic congestion analysis. There's a lot of stuff around emergency management, like assessing and predicting emergencies, flood, fire, things like that. So there's a lot of really powerful tools that could be harnessed. So the city is bringing forward an AI policy, which would help establish a flexible governance framework so that the city could use AI tools for the benefit of the community while also safeguarding against any potential harm. The policy that is before you tonight is in large part based on a template that was developed by the Government AI Coalition. The Government AI Coalition is like hundreds of municipal agencies at this point banding together, led by the City of San Jose's IT team. to look at how member agencies could unite and promote responsible and purposeful use of AI in the public sector. So the city actively joined the AI coalition, and we're learning more every month as we kind of join their calls, but the template is largely based on the government AI coalition recommended by CJPIA, which is the city's insurer, and the draft before you tonight has been reviewed by the city attorney's office. So some of the highlights, the applicability of the policy, it applies to all city deployed AI systems and any use of city data within AI tools by individuals with access to internal city data or systems. And then anybody who works for or on half of the city that may be leveraging AI to provide services to the city. a big part of this policy is establishing guiding principles for the responsible use of ai systems this is a really large chunk of the policy and it is intended to provide principles so that as we think about establishing or using ai that we are having these values that are listed on the screen as kind of at the forefront as we think about purchasing configuring or utilizing ai And I won't read these off here because I'm going to go through them quickly on the subsequent slides. But one of the principles is human-centered design. So any tool that we use, we want systems to be developed and deployed with a human-centered approach. So AI isn't autonomously making decisions that are really important. And that we're using those AI-powered services and thinking about how they impact both the public and the community. Security and safety is also integral. We want AI systems to maintain confidentiality, integrity and availability through safeguards that prevent unauthorized access or use of city data and minimize any sort of risk to individual society and the environment. Privacy is also an integral element. We want to ensure that privacy is preserved in any AI system that we use by safeguarding PII person identifiable information and any sort of sensitive data. From unauthorized access disclosure and manipulation. Transparency, so we want to be transparent about the purpose and the use of AI systems and we want to proactively communicate that on the city's website. We already have a web page where we talk about the enterprise systems that the city uses. We would update that web page to show what AI tools we're using and why we're using them. Um, so that's the transparency component. Equity, we want to ensure that AI systems support equitable outcomes for everybody and that any sort of bias in an AI system is effectively managed with the intention of reducing harm for anyone impacted by its use. Accountability and compliance, another guiding principle, and this relates to the roles and responsibilities that govern the deployment and maintenance of any sort of AI system and the human oversight that is needed to ensure adherence to any sort of relevant laws or regulations. effectiveness, any AI tool that we implement, we want it to be reliable and we want it to meet its intended objective and deliver precise and dependable outcomes. And lastly, workforce empowerment. We recognize that there is a lot of utility in using AI safely and ethically, so we want to empower staff to use AI in their roles through education, training, and collaborations that promote both participation and opportunity. Another policy section that I want to highlight a section for, which is kind of the meat and potatoes of the policy, which describes how we would go about purchasing, configuring, or developing an AI system. So we would start by ensuring that anything we look at upholds the guiding principles that I just went through. We would conduct an AI review to assess any potential risk of that specific AI tool and do risk assessments, independent audits, and things while actively using the tool so we can continue to ensure compliance. If we've had a tool for three years, we want to continue to audit it to make sure that it's compliant. As a part of that review review process, we would obtain technical documentation about the AI system. There is an AI fact sheet that was included in the packet. Um, so those are some common questions that we would ask to try and. Assess, you know, what are the risks? What are the potential uses? What are the potential outcomes? Is there any bias? How is the data trained? What type of model? Then we would require compliance with the policy for anybody using the tool. And lastly, we would ensure appropriate use of CIDI data within any AI tool in compliance with internal policy, standard practices, training requirements. And that would include prohibiting the use of non-public or confidential information in any sort of publicly available AI tool. Some additional elements that I'll just quickly highlight is there are some listed prohibited uses in the policy. This just lists some common prohibited uses of AI systems, and they're primarily prohibited because of the sensitive nature of information and potential risk associated with those specific tools. there is a protocol for reporting any ai concerns or incidents internally right so is there a data breach is there something we're concerned about there's a protocol and process for that there is a delineated set of rules and responsibilities so it talks about everybody's role in the process you know staff members our chief information officer public information officer etc and then there are some sunset procedures so if we opt to discontinue use of an ai tool how do we deal with that data what is the process for sunsetting a tool on this last slide i just want to highlight that this policy establishes a very general governance framework for ai use we will be developing some internal ai guidelines procedures and training materials for our staff to supplement this policy providing much more detailed guidance on like do's and don'ts best practices we also plan to conduct staff trainings and all the additional materials that we do produce would be in alignment with the policy and the guiding principles AI is a rapidly changing field, as you're all aware. So we will continue to review this policy, any related supporting documents, and update them as needed to ensure that we remain compliant and up-to-date kind of with the trends and what's going on. And I think that sums it up. I'm happy to answer any questions that you guys may have.

Thank you very much. We'll go ahead and take it out to the public. Appreciate the great report. We'll take Chambers first. Come on up.

We're on the item 11b, AI policy. Large turnout. Hi, I'm David Erickson. Again, I'm sure most of you remember me from 30 minutes ago or so. My company is a sculpted artwork LLC, and I was going through college for intelligence systems engineering out of IU. And I turned around and halfway through schooling, I realized that every day that went by, the class became more and more obsolete. uh the training systems can't keep up with it the everything everything can't keep up with how fast ai is moving um and one of the things that uh you have to kind of watch out for is as it grows you want to make sure that you're keeping up policies often to meet that criteria because those policies are going to constantly change due to the growing development of the actual the development of that actual ai that you're using uh there's also enterprise editions of most every version of ai there is out there meaning that they they have secured container versions of a network that you can use in for just the city itself so you don't leak out information stuff like that i didn't know if you guys know a lot about it but that was my two cents on that But you could do so many initiatives also with the schools. You could do STEM programs for students to be able to work on a project that you can incorporate with the city to say, oh, let's have students program machines to look at how many people are crossing in a crosswalk during the day and the typical time it takes them to get across it. And you could throw little simple projects like that and then have almost like a science lab type of or science uh what did they used to call those science fairs where you could have all the projects be you know announced or submitted and you choose one of them and you have the city go along with it so many different things you could do with the different policies to include the city itself you may even put out policies to the the public to say hey look you could go out there and uh look at and try to get the ideas from the community hey why don't we look at uh lighthouse for how many cars are coming down the hill uh right into congress way over the speed limit because it shifts to 15 and they're going probably still 30 from coming down the hill You can put a LIDAR system and try to look at that speed, maybe moving that speed limit sign up the road further, just doing little type of things that could say, okay, by utilizing AI and following the policies of the city, maybe we could look at doing these different types of things to help the city as well. So to side saddle with the city's endeavors. Thanks. That was my.

Thank you. Pleasure with that. Anybody online?

Number one line there.

Okay, so we'll close the comment on 11 B, bring it back to the council. I will just lead off on this 1. I think this. I mean, obviously it's well put together. It's an excellent report. It's extremely clear. I found the policy to be extremely clear. And I think that we, you know, used our resources that we do have to create it. And I think it's a great strong point. And, you know, as we go forward, we can grow it, change it, revise it, add regulations to it. And then the attendant activities that might emanate from the policy or be related to the policy as mr erickson spoke of so um i am fully supportive i like to put this in place tonight i think it's a great idea and then i'll listen to everyone else councilman burrell thank you

So AI has gotten a lot of attention lately. And a couple of things that I have concerns about. One, I've seen where if someone submits a resume and they use the particular type of AI, I won't call anybody out, Google or ChatGPT or Microsoft, whatever. Is that it will go out and find the other resumes that came out of. Chat and those are the ones that will get preferential treatment. And so what I want to do is just make sure that as we're looking for people, that we're not relying on AI to do any kind of filtering that may exclude a candidate just because of the type of AI they used or one or two trigger words that may reject their resume. So the HR component I'm concerned with. I'm also concerned with the sustainability piece given how much natural resources all of this data mining takes. And I think we just need to be careful if sustainability is our core value, we need to make sure that our AI policy supports that. And then the third thing is I think that we need to put this on the schedule for annual review to make sure that we're meeting not only the goals, but also taking a look at some of those other components to make sure that we're not

um missing the mark by the values that we say that we have and ai is not supporting that so those are my three three thoughts okay so i'm hearing support for the current policy but then maybe perhaps bifurcate to direction to the staff to bring it back annually for a review okay go ahead councilman garfield

Thank you. So as I'm listening to Ms. Halaby talk about this systemic application of any AI systems, I'm struck by how much time it takes staff to research, evaluate, and once something's chosen, to train, to implement, And that's a significant challenge that we're all facing in a time where we have scarce human resources. So I'm wondering if this consortium has helped get this so far can also help with identifying the most appropriate tools underneath the AI umbrella and how they can be deployed efficiently and effectively without having to reinvent the wheel. So are we going to still stay in this consortium and work up to death?

yes so to answer your question very quickly yes um the government ai coalition has a plethora of resources they actively meet monthly have different subcommittees and so a lot of it is exactly to your point of like how to make this more efficient across government agencies how to ensure it's ethical somebody's doing research right they have databases of what platforms are being used and how and so there's a lot of resources to pull from and a lot of support to lean on

Okay. And then I also saw that our insurance joint powers is aware of this and is working on this. So will that continue as well? So we're not taking some, there's someone else helping us identify risks that are inherent in using an AI system.

So CJPIA has vetted this specific policy and application generally as we assess AI tools. This is where that AI review would come into play where we look at like the algorithm, the fact sheet, the information from the AI vendor to assess, you know, is it a high risk use? If so, how? You know, we would consult as necessary depending on the type of use application, the type of data depending on any concerns that may arise at the time that our IT team reviews the initial application.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Council Member Paduri. Yes, thank you. And thank you for the staff to put this together. I know it took all the departments to come together to review this, so I really appreciate everybody channeling their energy and time to get this in place. I would say just a couple of thoughts. I'm open to certainly the Gov AI i mean every ai is such a thing that doesn't matter where you go it's it's like you hear about it uh and people are really using it and by the time you blink an eye like there's something else going on so uh the so my point is uh galia coalition is really spearheading the effort to kind of like channel things with respect to what is happening in this universe uh and so i think it's good for the city to just uh fall back on what they're doing and kind of like implement whatever structures or policies that they have and bring it back to the city because they are considering all the cities and municipalities that are there uh in their in their mix so so annual review is great uh but i think if they have an annual policy if their policy and i think we're kind of like basing this off of their policy some extent so if if there's any change from their policy i think we should Kind of like try to replicate that here, because to be honest, even the way AI is shaping up, it could be a whole different thing a few months from now. So the other thing is I was there at the CGAPI conference, and I had a pointed question towards what is the liability when something AI-related happens. is going to happen, who is responsible for an AI-caused issue. And they were not able to answer that in that particular forum. And so I'm just bringing that up forward to say we should probably think in terms of possibly putting something out on our website if we're planning to use AI extensively or otherwise to say where the liability falls. And that may be an item that we need to review internally. I don't know if it will come under this policy or not, but certainly something to to think of uh so so the the blame doesn't fall on our end and this is not just uh this would not just translate to the website itself it will also translate to any kind of uh contracts that we have because we we are dealing with a lot of suppliers for for various things with consultants contractors etc and so technically this policy will will have to kind of they have to follow the same kind of adhere to the same rules so hopefully we'll get there And then I did want to call out that there's a lot of prohibitions here. There was an emotion analysis, for example. But I think the prohibitions are going to grow. And I think the one thing that I've seen throughout my AI experience here is that every little interface says AI results may not be correct. So I would say we should just put that disclaimer somewhere for sure, no matter what we do. So anyway, but great item, and thank you for bringing this, and certainly supportive of the annual requirements, too. Thank you. Thank you, Chaps.

Yeah, just to piggyback off that comment real quick before I go to Mayor Pro Tem here. I would say I'm not kind of lawyer up here because I'm not a lawyer up here. I'm the mayor up here. But I'm still considered to be a lawyer, I think, under the standards. But in any event, if we do something with AI and it causes damage, we're going to be liable. I mean, that's just I'm pretty certain of that. But I think we should probably think about it that way. But, you know, that's subject to further review by staff and depending on the various you know, intricacies of the situation itself. But I mean, if we push something into motion with AI, I think, and it causes something to go wrong, I would say we're going to be liable for that. Just, that's just my opinion about it. But yeah, I still think it's good to think about all these things. And this is a very interesting discussion that we're having on this. I wasn't expecting. So this is great. And I'm going to recognize Joe now.

Okay. Thank you for your presentation. I'm going to make a motion in a minute. It happened to me the past couple of days where I was trying to get a hold of someone. I wanted a person, but they kept going away. Dial number A, dial number 1, dial 2, dial 3. AI is frustrating at times. I'm just talking for myself. And my wife also had it happen twice, and she was quite frustrated. But I'm going to make a motion. I agree with this. Adopt a resolution improving the artificial intelligence policy, Council Policy 2007. I'll second it.

And then we'll take discussion. And we also had a secondary motion that one of us can make on direction to come back annually. But on discussion, I'll recognize Council Member McDonald.

Thank you. Yeah, I think that this is very timely. Actually, it's probably late. It's always the case with AI, unfortunately. But I'm definitely glad we're doing this because, as everyone said, AI is being utilized. But there's a lot of... misunderstanding and lack of knowledge around AI. So in a world where there is AI, it's critical that staff have the opportunity to get well trained so they have knowledge. It's critical to know what the benefits are because there is a lot of time and efficiencies that could potentially be gained, but it's really important to be trained and understand the pitfalls as well, knowing that they hallucinate. I have a friend who recently asked a question. I gave an answer and he's like, are you just making that up? And I said, oh, you caught me. Yes, I am. So just knowing that AI, if it doesn't know an answer might make things up and training people to ask again, another way to, to, to dive deeper is really critical prompts. still important in how you ask the question will drive the response you get. But when the average person is just using AI and doesn't know any of that, it's really easy to get potentially misleading and not in-depth responses. I'm really glad that this involves a training component because I think we've been talking very much about council goal being about having more efficiency for staff. and with a good ai tool and a good ai policy that definitely gives tools to save an immense amount of time they're sort of forcing us to use it at work i'm glad because i have found ways to save immense amount of times in certain areas so there's an initial cost in learning how to interact with it potentially but the amount you can save over time is Tremendous. Iteration, very important. As the technology changes, it will be really important to stay on top of that. So I appreciate that we're using the Gov AI model so that we are continuing to evolve with what's changing in the industry. So, and again, to the idea of having the enterprise versions, we use it for PHI. So, knowing that there are versions that you can use that are safe for the system, I think is really helpful because it can actually help with the modernization we've been talking about needing to improve some of our systems and in finance and other things but i appreciate very much what was said about being careful and utilizing ai for selection in hr we're getting to the point where everybody's just a bunch of stuff gets spit out just read an article about how cover letters are obsolete because everybody just does an ai one and you can't tell the difference anymore So really looking at how in the age of AI, we really use it to make sure we're going deeper and finding the good candidates. So I would support that recommendation. And I would definitely, as part of the vote, want to have us come back for the annual review as well so we can ensure we're staying up with the gut AI recommendations. Thanks.

Thank you.

Yeah, so big congrats on this. This is a really well-written document. The only thing I just wanted to point out is I do see this growing over time, and as that grows, I do see there's some opportunity, especially under the accountability and compliance, is to be able to, for any of the contractors that we hire out, is to be able to go to them and ask them what portion was used for AI. I'm thinking about, say, the housing element that went through.

very important that that did not hallucinate under if they used it at all to be able to go back and i could help a little bit with how uh either our boards or councils can take some of that responsibility to ask those questions even though it's still going to fall upon the city so thank you thank you all right we're going to go ahead and take a vote on the first motion um i'll take a voice vote all in favor say aye aye any opposed hearing none passes 7-0 and then as the second uh motion mr or councilman rao would you like to make the motion

Yeah, I'd like to make a motion we add this to our annual review. Moving forward second.

And I'll just make a amendment all ask an amendment to we review this no letter than July 1st 2027. Acceptable amendment. Okay, we'll give us a timeline. So we're going to get a motion and a second. We're going to you second that. Okay, so then we're going to go ahead and take a vote on coming back within a year to review the policy and let Joyce be creative about that. If that's okay. All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. Passes unanimously. Thank you very much. Thank you, Joyce. As usual, well done. Very nicely done. We're going to go to our final item of the night, I believe.

11c so we didn't hit the 12th of the 13th tonight good evening mayor and fellow council members uh so tonight we're presenting an update to our current city's purchasing ordinance so the last time it was updated was in 2020 and just to kind of give a background the idea of the purchasing ordinance is to help us to operate a purchasing system designed to for the city staff to secure high quality goods and services um at their lowest possible reasonable cost while at the same time maximizing financial accountability and helping us to maintain good internal controls within the city so staff as a result is proposing a few changes uh the following changes to the policy so uh as i mentioned it was adopted last adopted in 2020 so we are proposing a change in the amount of contracts that are going to be approved by council from 40,000 to 50,000. And that's based upon the review of the Bay Area CPI over the last several years. Just to kind of remind council, we had a couple of years with COVID where we had very high inflation. There was one year, in fact, it was like 9%. So that's why it actually goes up to, proposed to go up to 50,000 as of 2025. um in the current policy right now um it allows for incremental increases um every five years of basically in the amounts of five thousand dollars and that again is based upon the bay area cpi um other proposed changes we have in the ordinance uh is basically to formally adopt the delegation of some of the duties currently stated as though the purchasing agent handles to certain levels of either the administrative services department or other staff Um, clarify some bidding and surplus requirements, um, including allowing a city to donate, um, surplus items to other governments and charitable organizations. Um, and also to exempt from bid request. Um, currently it's at that level of 5,000 dollars. We were proposed to raise that to 5,000 according with inflation that has been raised in a long period of time. And with that, we're recommending that we introduce and hold the first reading of the ordinance amending municipal code chapter 2.16, which is the purchasing system procedures, and that we direct that a summary of the proposed ordinance be published as approved by the city attorney. I'd be happy to answer any questions. Thank you so much.

Public comment on the last item of the night, 11C, purchasing procedures. We'll go to Ms. Duemer. So we'll go to her.

Ms. Duemer. Thank you. I have to be unmuted.

I have, well, some concerns here in that shalls have been changed to maybes at least three times in this document. And why is that, I would ask? Because shall is a legal term, you shall, and maybes are maybes. at least three times in purchase orders, bids, and designated agents. And why in the world would you change shalls to maybes? And in the administrative services, I have another question of who exactly is administrative services and how many different people are designees or could be, or who exactly are these people? And supposedly the accountability is the same, but when you change shells to maybes, I'm not sure that's true. Thank you very much.

Thank you. No further hands, Mayor.

okay and there's no members of the public in chambers at this point so we will bring it back to the council uh for action on item 11c who would like to start go ahead i actually wanted to ask the question perhaps for my edification too there are a lot of maybes in this to begin with uh there are also a lot of shells and there are some shells changed to maybe some maybes to shells make a difference

I mean, shall is generally, you know, you have to do it maybe is is conditional. There is case law that, you know, goes into deep. analysis of that um but i think what you're being presented with here is just to sort of clarify what's going on so legally there is a difference the question would be then uh are those differences acceptable to you so in other words where it's a mandatory shell does that work for you and where it's maybe um are you comfortable with that i don't know if if mr marsh has further explanation as to why i mean that's exactly it i mean the idea the changes were just to really give staff a little bit more flexibility you know in this this is one of the main reasons we kind of because

currently the way it's written before the changes it had everything really going through the um purchasing you know the purchasing agent as a city manager and that's really not how it runs in any city at all and what i tried to do with this was minimize number of changes but really have it reflect more of the operations of our surrounding cities as well too and how they implement their purchasing policies

If I could follow up on that with an actual example, just from my understanding. So 2.116070 purchase orders. It says purchase orders. Previously, it was purchase orders shall be required for all expenditures. Now it says maybe. So does this mean not everything goes through?

yeah so that's a great example and this is an example why i changed it from michelle to may because there's a number of examples for example anything that's under seventy five hundred dollars doesn't i mean well current five thousand but proposed to go to seventy five hundred that doesn't the way we do it right now does not require a purchase order there's some standing items for example a good example is our debt service payments which you know we have to make every year that we just you know those are just regular invoices that come in for those there are certain Most of the items over basically will propose now $7,500 would require a purchase order, but that's a great example of why I changed that to May because there are some exceptions to that. Okay.

Thank you. Look, I'm supportive of this item. Thank you for forward thinking. Obviously, there's a cost increase everywhere, and we're recognizing that. And it seems like you're being efficient by saying every five years, we're going to increase it. I don't know if I should be happy about that or sad about the fact that we're surrendering to the cost of living. But either way, I think it's forward thinking is what we're doing here. So I'm supportive of what is going on. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else?

Go ahead, Council Member Garfield.

Yeah, I'm in support of this, too. What I see in this is that you have clarified some of the processes that might have been a bit muddy up to this point so that everybody understands who does what. And we don't have a bottleneck. I'm sorry not to say that Mr. Mugginson is a bottleneck.

He is not at all.

But when everything goes through one person. um that's an undue burden on that individual when other things other arrangements can be made so um yeah i think this is this is a real improvement and i'm glad that you're looking for things that we've been kind of not doing just the right way and getting it nailed down as to how it's supposed to go for process so thank you very much and one thing i just want to quickly add for council we've actually we had a uh

a procurement manual basically that was about 100 pages and this is for staff much more detailed but it i was able to slim it down to about 20 pages and we've had a good um discussion with all city staff about that for going forward as well too so that was just part of the evaluation bonus i love that i love that okay anyone um

Thank you. Yeah. And I had also looked at the May shell, although so kind of looking at that, I did notice that it seemed to be likely where things might be optional. The example I noticed, too, is that you may provide the low bidder with a written explanation. So it's not an obligation, but you have the option to do it. So it looked like it was based on when it was optional and fit with with regular practices.

of gave us like like in the chance we forgot to give that notice you know we don't want to be penalized i mean we want to strive to do obviously the best things that we can for the city but at the same time i tried to look legally a little bit you know obviously i'm not an attorney but you know i tried to look at those things that you know basically are not going to negatively impact the city is the way to put it.

Yeah. And I do appreciate that this helps further our goal, our council goal of having more efficiency within our government so that we're not having impediments that actually slow down our work progress, but they're things that are legitimate practices. So thank you very much.

And I have to give staff some credit too, because they gave us some really good feedback, which we incorporated into the ordinance as well too. Great.

So thank you.

Thank you for your presentation. Uh, it's about. That this was increased for the, uh, 40 to 50. I'd like to make a recommendation. Uh, Mr, uh, can I go with number 1 and number 2 together? Okay, I'm going to go make a recommendation number 1 and number 2.

All right. Motion on one and two. Second. Second by Raul. Motion by Emilio. And any further discussion on the item? Okay. We'll go ahead and take a voice vote. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. Passes unanimously. 7-0. And we've reached the end of the agenda tonight. It was a fun one. Appreciate all of you that stuck in there until the end. See you on the next one. Meeting's adjourned.