Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the August 25th plan is on the Commission meeting to order. Ken Crowder is not here. So I will.

I can call. Roll call. Thank you. Katie, please call. Absolutely. Chairman William Hardrick.

Here.

Mayor Marty Little.

Here.

Steve Olson.

Here.

Mark Giroux.

Here.

Ken Crowder is excused. Councilwoman Jessica Raquejo. Here. Janet Dietrich. Here. Angela Williams. Here. Joseph Vaughn, City Attorney.

I'm here.

Diane Robinson, Community Development Coordinator.

Here.

And I'm Katie Sanders, and I'm here as well.

Well, thank you so much. Can we please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? Remain standing. Your amendments for our service members, please. Thank you. Thank you. Please be seated.

I'm going to move the flags around. I had to keep them guessing.

Well, good to see everybody this evening. Thank you all for coming off the plan as I'm in the commission meeting. So I trust that everyone has read the previous minutes from July 28th. Open the floor for motion to approve those minutes. Motion.

What was that?

Thank you, Jessica.

Second.

Thank you, Mayor, for that second. All those in favor? Aye. All those who oppose? That motion does carry. Just read this for public record. We will now begin the public hearing. Please be advised the plan is on the commission. It is an advisory board that makes recommendations to the city council. Final approvals are granted by the city council. Okay, so is anyone here for 9509 Lackland Road? Please step forward, state your name, nature of your business, please.

Hi, everyone. My name is Gaith Daboul with Dabco Holding for the property on 9509 Lackland Road. We are attempting to make it an auto boutique and care place. We're trying to switch it from the current car wash to an auto motor place. It will be auto care and boutique. It will be more of detailing cars, mechanic work, inspections, and wrapping vehicles, anything related to the detailing of the cars.

Thank you, Mr. DeVoe. I'll straight to Katie for additional comments.

Thank you, Chairman. As Gates has explained, they are proposing to take a vacant car wash that's been vacant since 2018 and convert that, which currently has open bays, and convert it into complete enclosure with an office. Within your packet, there is a rendering of the proposed building. The location will have seven bays as well as an office. There is also variances on file related to this project. Insufficient parking, which is no longer going to be an issue once they've enclosed it and extended the parking beyond what it was required for Car wash car wash used to have to have stacking and that sort of thing Insufficient landscaping it's very vague, but that was the variance I found as well as a variance for the east side side yard setback So with those variances in place and what they've proposed for the upgrades to the site in terms of the parking there's no issues with the site plan and we have no concerns in terms of their hours of operation One thing I did want to note I did find an additional variance related to the screening along the rear property line Our code requires that there be fencing between the residential property and a commercial business It's a little hard. You can't really tell obviously from the site plan and or through your GIS mapping, but there is a small amount concrete retaining wall at the back of that property and there's an incline there's a small hill that goes up so that would alleviate any kind of headlights going into anybody's property at the rear but additionally this very odd variance that i found from 1989 stated specifically that a fence wasn't required because they believed that the fence would collect junk and trash if it was up there coming down the hill and they wanted no fence in order to make sure that The property owner could maintain that hill and keep it clean. That's all I have at this time.

Thank you, Katie.

Yes, sir.

City Attorney Jovan.

Yeah, so it's pretty straightforward. If you go to your Exhibit B, which is a conditional use, as kind of the traditional language we have in here about has to maintain licensure, when it's going to be open, et cetera, et cetera. I would say, now that I understand that it's for vehicle wrapping as well, if there's any emissions related to that. As of right now, it's licensure related to vehicle repairs. I would just maybe amend that to vehicle repairs, detailing, and wrapping. I don't know if there's any chemicals or anything like that.

no no it's basically like same as tinting materials just water basically we use water and the ramps and stuff is there any sort of special licensure you need to do that that's different from like any other automotive business it's basically auto care so it's same as any you know dobs or anything okay well we also get our inspection stations okay we already have a license got it so

In that case, we probably don't need to make that change if it's like for like.

But other than that, yeah, it's pretty straightforward.

Thank you. Any questions from the commission?

Not a question, but a comment. It would be wonderful to see this property put back to use. It's been vacant way too long.

Definitely.

And your quarter machine ends up being like $20. So whenever you put that back up, you're going to have me. That's what it is. That's what it is, yes.

I have a comment about how many bays. It said seven, but there's only six in the picture. Unless that end one that's larger is a double one.

I think maybe one of the pictures you have is the older version that we...

I initially wanted to make like an open car wash there. Dave, can you speak into the microphone?

Yeah, I think initially was, I think the picture you guys have, maybe the initial design was the last bay stays as automatic car wash, but we changed that. So all closures will be seven closed bays on all of them.

And then I also have another question about these, this is just for my information, about these taxes. Who does that go to, St. Louis County, Overland, the state, back taxes?

That is a great question. I'm going to defer to our mayor, who's going to probably look to the city attorney. Yeah, I can answer, but I won't choose.

depending on the nature of the taxes um some might be county some might be ours obviously you know when you pay it it just kind of gets divvied up whichever tax is owed i mean i don't know the exact taxes that it could be i'm guessing it's real estate taxes which is largely school district fire districts but it's a county tax the real estate tax

And when the sale goes through, I would assume that that would all be cleared up because they can't sell it with back taxes.

Anything else, Ms. Janet?

No. Thank you very much.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

Just for general information, seven employees on maximum shift? Yeah. Okay. Monday through Friday 9 to 6 and Saturday 9 to 5? Yeah. Okay.

No outside storage? Rock and roll.

Any other questions from the commission? Anything from the audience? Any comments or questions?

Okay.

Seeing no further discussion, open the floor for a motion to recommend approval with condition use permit with stipulations as presented and discussed.

So moved.

Thank you, Mark. Is there a second?

Seconded.

Thank you, Steve. All those in favor? Aye. All those who oppose? And motion does carry. Open the floor for a motion to recommend approval with site plan with stipulations as discussed and presented. Motion to approve. Thank you, Mayor.

Second. Thank you, Mark.

All those in favor? Aye. Aye. All those who oppose? The motion does carry. Thank you, Mr. DeBull. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. I'm pretty sure Katie may follow the additional information. I'm sorry, Ms. Diane.

Hey, my bad. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Thanks in a way. I appreciate it. I needed it.

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay, let's keep on rolling. Anyone here from 2554 Woodson Road? Please step forward, state your name, next of your business, please.

Hi, my name is Tanika Jackson, and I am looking to open up a level of social, sorry, which is a social arcade, sorry, social arcade place for families. And we're thinking about later on in the evening closing up and just doing adults 21 and up.

Tell us more about this.

So it was an old gym, it was CrossFit I think it was, so it's open 3,000 square foot space. So right now just open floor plan and we just plan to just fill it up with arcade machines, pinball machines, like basketball hoops, just something fun to do, bring to downtown Overland.

Thank you, thank you so much.

I'm gonna come back to you Jess, I gotta go to Katie first.

Okay, any additional? Thank you.

You're fine. You're fine. Hi, how are you? Good to see you again. Likewise. So as she has explained, this is what we call a recreation establishment within the zoning code. It would be an arcade, the previous business, gym, fitness center. There are multiple variances on this property. As you can see, it's a unique little property there. So there's You know limited parking there's no landscaping but all of those variances were put in place back when the health and fitness center was established. So there's no issues with that. I have all the same information that you have within your packet which includes the hours of operation. I do believe that originally it said that there was going to be alcohol sales. Is that correct Diane.

DIANE DEBACKER- Yeah we thought about doing it but I don't. No, that's not on the table at the moment.

Okay, and then additionally, I believe Joe wants to touch on some of the machines and gaming aspects of this. So I have nothing further beyond that.

Thank you, Katie.

Thank you, Chairman.

City Attorney.

Yeah, so I guess I will start off by saying Be gentle, Joe. I will say I'm in favor of the CUP, but you will see some language in here that kind of Make sure that it doesn't become like a place for the gray market machines that we're seeing in certain convenience stores, liquor stores, what have you. Those have been determined to be illegal by.

What does that mean, gray market?

So those machines, so.

They should be gone by now, and people who are going to call us

Oh, you mean like the gambling? Oh, no, no, no.

I figured you weren't, but I also have to build that in. And then there is sort of items in here that talk about it's not a place where people can play table games, do craps or anything like that. I'm not saying you would. This is just the first time we've looked at one of these. I want to make sure we're... Looking at it holistically.

It's not my jam, Joe.

I didn't figure it was, but, you know, I would be derelict in my duty. So, yeah, essentially, that first condition, you'll see stuff about table games. If anything is regulated by the Missouri Gaming Commission, they're not supposed to have it, you know, because they're just two different things. Obviously, you're not running gambling machines, but. There are some quirks in our code that are from the 70s about pinball machines and stuff like that. So part of this is just putting you on notice and There's an additional paperwork piece of this about keeping an inventory of these machines. Essentially, each, depending on which machine it is, it might be either $10 or $50 per machine per year. Just that's how the code is written. and how I've developed this sort of inventory is I think ideally to help us and to help you pay those on time and to keep everybody kind of in the same understanding of what those machines are. Essentially, And we can develop this internally. It's just a spreadsheet of things like, what's the name of the machine? When do you install it? What's the serial number? It's all laid out in the CUP. But the goal here is to make sure that we know what machines are there, that you know what machines are there, and that we're making sure those licenses are being paid. Because we don't want it to be something where we're going to have to, you know, come in and inspect or do anything like that. But this is sort of a quirk of the code because of the licenses. I guess, do you have any questions for me while we're talking through this?

No, I don't have any questions except I was I wasn't born in the 70s so apply to me but I Get it I understand and we can make a like a mock-up I'm just envisioning it's just like a little simple spreadsheet that'll help both of us in So would it be something with, like when we do the business license renewal, God willing, that we would do all of that at the same time? Okay.

Yep. And then the way the code works and I don't think anyone's looked at this since the 70s. But the way the code works is it's essentially every August 1, those licenses need to be renewed. So essentially what we'll try to do is in the run up to that, while you're doing the business licensing renewal, we'll check into that inventory document and then just say, OK, you've got 15 machines. Here's what they are. It's $10 for those machines, $50 for those. And then that's the fee that gets spit out. It is a quirk of an older code. That's just what that is. There's additional language in here regarding if any of those machines do end up becoming regulated by the Missouri Gaming Commission, that they have to remove them, because obviously they regulate gambling machines. I'm just trying to belt in suspenders. I'm sorry that you have to be the first victim of this, but I might have drafted this a little overboard. I'm originally from Illinois where these gambling machines popped up and I was like, how do we get rid of it? So just trying to keep us all on the straight and narrow. There is language in here that would authorize them to seek a liquor license. I don't see that as being problematic. Obviously that doesn't force you to do that. If you wanna say, yeah, we're not doing that, that's not part of our business plan, but five years later it is, I don't want you to have to come back here to amend this to do that. So what we would do is we would just authorize that up front from a zoning perspective. You'd still have to get a liquor license, go through that process, but now you don't have to amend the CUP. This is just, you know. so you don't have to file more paperwork and come back here and do all this, even though we would love to see you. Other than that, it's a very straightforward CEP. So I'm happy to answer any questions. I did kind of a deep dive on some of this to try to look at our code, harmonize it with what they're trying to do, and go from there. So happy to, any questions that you have for me, I'm happy to talk about.

She said no liquor, but is there an open liquor license?

So liquor license, the only ones that are capped are liquor stores. So she would likely sell by the drink. So she could only seek those that are open. The way the zoning usually goes is you can seek an alcohol license. If she came in to try to do like packaged liquor.

I didn't know that. I thought we capped for a bar.

Nope.

Okay, so just.

Yep. We only cap specifically liquor stores, which are those that have a certain percentage of floor space. So you can still be like a corner, not a corner liquor store, but like a bodega or something and sell some beer, and we can still consider that. Is that it? Go ahead.

Do the individual machines have a sticker on them that says they have a license?

They will, yeah. And we'll probably have to come up with a form for that, Katie, because I doubt one is going to.

That's actually through the administration department with the business license clerk. It's been many, many years ago, but I remember issuing them. And they're a little sticker that goes right on the sheet.

Yep. And what we'll do is we'll. essentially with this inventory I'm envisioning is we'll have the name, the serial number, manufacturer, installation date, and then we'll feed that sticker number onto that. So if we ever have to look at it or if there's ever a question of hey, I thought I paid for this one or hey, I took that one out in the past year or whatever, we can cross-reference the whole thing. So we don't have to have any guesswork. The goal is to kind of be holistic with this and make sure that we're finding all the machines that they're aware of what they have to pay and stuff like that.

Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions for Joe?

Yes. Actually, Ms. Jackson, will the machines be operated by coins or will they be a card swipe?

No, we're actually going to do armbands. So they would pay $20 and have an armband that would last two hours. So don't plan on any coins getting taken. I got you, girl. No coin shuffling, no change machines. Don't plan on having any ATMs or anything like that.

Joe, you might want to consider the language because it says coin-operated.

Coin-operated is the parlance from the code. It does say, it talks about essentially anything that is tokens or any model of payment or anything. So it doesn't have to take a coin, because I thought about that. It's like, well, if they're all modern and none of them take a coin, is that, but our code is broad enough, I think, to cover that. But yeah, they're all called coin-operated machines, so. Thank you. Or coin-operated amusements.

Yeah.

Any other questions? Anything else for Joe?

I was looking at your concept layout. Yes. And you have seating and social area. Do you plan on having beverages sold out of there, sodas, or –

We're not currently set up to sell any types of food and beverages, but for the sake of if we do that in the future, just wanted to make sure that we did have a space. But it would really just be for people that want to sit. If their kids are playing video games, they just want to sit there because we will have a TV posted up where they can watch the sports games.

games and stuff like that just kind of a i'm thinking back to my arcade game days you know when you did have to drop a quarter in um yeah so i was just thinking so are you going to allow people to bring in beverages no no no that's a whole different ballgame right and of note we do have the hookah lounge which is across the street yeah right

So that was another reason why we were really kind of like, uh, liquor, you know, we would kind of be competing against ourselves if we did that. So we're still kind of like, yeah, I don't. Okay.

Thank you.

No problem.

And right now your hours are listed Sunday through Thursday, 1 p.m. to 1 a.m., Friday and Saturday, 11 to 1.30 a.m.? Yes.

Okay.

Two employees owner-operated? Yes.

Two, maybe three. I don't anticipate having, because they're just coin-operated machines, and we're not selling anything, needing to have more than three people. Just depends on traffic.

I got you.

That's primarily, one of the reasons we look at that is for parking. This is all street parking. I got you.

Have any additional questions or comments from the commission?

I noticed on, on this paperwork, there are two different owners of this property is, I mean, one of them is, um, Mr. Bennett and the other one is, um, Mr. Robowski.

Okay.

I mean, is that, I mean, I don't know what I'm asking, but I just noticed there were two different owners.

They both own the property.

They both own the property. Yeah.

They're under Oberlin restorations.

Okay.

Any additional questions from the commission or comments, anything from the audience, please step forward, state your name for the record, please. And your address. And you're social.

This is supposed to be a quick meeting, John.

John Moyle, 2412 Spencer. Just a quick question for Joe. When you mentioned table games, what were you referring to?

I meant like craps.

That's what I thought you were referring to. Yeah. Poker. Poker, craps. I was making sure things like Monopoly were still allowed. That's cool.

Yeah, I mean like table games in the gambling sense. Obviously, if you want kids to play Sorry or something, that's all cool.

Okay, good, because I have those games.

Yeah, that's all fine.

I'm like, wait, we have Sorry and Jigga?

Can I not do that?

Yeah, you can do that.

We don't leverage money, though.

Yeah, just so long as, I just didn't want it to be like, oh, we're doing poker nights on Friday nights.

We got a mini casino going.

Right. No.

What made you decide to go against the alcohol?

Competing factors with the hookah lounge that we have across the street. Also, because we're not, we would have to put in a sink because there's not a hand washing sink or wear washing sink. It just seems like, is it really worth it? I think what we really wanna do is see how the revenue looks without it. And if we can sustain, we don't need it.

Makes sense. Any additional comments or questions from the audience? I'm seeing no additional comments. I'm looking forward to the space. It's a really nice idea. Thank you. It really is.

I wanted to do something a little different.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

Well, seeing no additional comments or questions, open the floor for motion to record approval with conditional use permit with stipulations as presented and discussed.

So moved.

Second. Thank you, Steve. Thank you for that second, Mark. All those in favor? Aye. All those who oppose? That motion does carry. I open the floor for motion to record approval with site plan with stipulations as presented and discussed.

Motion to approve.

Thank you, Councilwoman Raquel. Second. Thank you, Angela. All those in favor? Aye. All those who oppose? And motion does carry. Thank you so much for your time this evening. I'm pretty sure Ms. Dan will be in touch with you. Our next council meeting is here. Eventually.

Thank you.

Who's going to get to her? Who's going to talk to her?

Ms. Diane. I was right that time.

Thank you so much. Thank you, guys.

So I know tonight we had a third item on the agenda that was amended, that was modified. Is there any kind of public comment for 9465 Midland Boulevard? Any kind of questions or comments when he made for that space? It's not on the agenda, it was removed, but just in case someone is here for that topic or for that address. Okay. Keep on rolling. We will move now to our director's report. There are no, give it up for Katie Sanders.

Thank you chairman. Um, no comments in terms of any administrative CUPs. I did kind of want to just touch base because I did speak with Mr. Crowder this morning and some of you may see some activity going on at 10,041 and 55 Lackland, which was the former dollar general. Um, it's been vacant for awhile. Um, there is a new property owner of that property. They are currently moving materials and supplies that will be needed for the renovation of that building. Contacting a structural engineer, they'll need to get their permit, that sort of thing. So if you get any calls or anything on it, there's hopefully some positive movement. Everything I've gotten is secondhand, but I was told an office building. I haven't spoken with anyone directly. I believe Jason has. And I got it from another person this afternoon as I was just trying to make sure I had some updates for everyone. Shared space? Okay.

I just know the talk on Facebook for the Overland community is that, yay, they're doing something. It's, you know.

Yes.

Yes. That's a big deal.

So, well, and you're going to be the ones probably screening any of the calls, so I just wanted to make sure to touch base with you and give you an update. But other than that, that's all I have this evening.

Thank you. Any updates with the old King Grill building?

That's supposed to be a Thai kitchen. We approved that already. I haven't heard of it.

I wasn't there that year. On Woodville building? King Grill on Midland. Oh, did that close? It did. Yeah. Oh.

Yeah, a lot of people were sad, but Thai Kitchen's supposed to go in. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember that.

Okay. Okay. Thank you, Katie.

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Any new or unfinished business we need to cover? Okay. I would ask Ken, do we have any jokes, but I guess not tonight. I will open the floor for a motion to adjourn.

Second.

Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mark. All those in favor? Aye. All those who oppose? Motion carried. Meeting is adjourned. 6.31. Thank you all for your time. It's an exciting time in playing in the zone. I tell you. It's an exciting time.

It's exciting.

Look at that.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Jocelyn, what's up, man?

I have truly been away from that. Now I have.