Board of Adjustment - Regular Meeting

Okay. The board of adjustment meeting for the city of Overland, Missouri to be held September 10th, 2025 will now be called to order. Roll call for the 820th public hearing of the board of adjustment. Dan Kipper here. Tim Jones here. Jay Fetch, no. Jeff Okano, yes. John Seal here. Okay. Legal council Joe Bond here. Community development Katie Sanders here. And community development Diane Robinson.

Has a board reviewed the minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday, August 13, 2025? And if so, does anyone have questions or changes to be made to the minutes? No. Okay. I will now entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the August 13, 2025 board of adjustment meeting. First motion. I'll make a motion to accept as written. I'll second it.

Okay. Pull the vote for approval of the minutes. Seal. Yes. Okonnell's yes. Kipper. Yes. Jones. Yes. And Fetch is not here.

All parties present wishing to partake in any discussion of the applications for variances or appeals submitted to the board. Will you please step forward to be sworn in? Once you've been sworn in, you may take your seat. Thank you. Do you solemnly swear to or affirm that the testimony you will give at this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Do.

Thank you. Period of validity and required vote

as per section 400.935 period of validity unless as otherwise specified by the board of adjudgment adjustment and their approval of it for an application. No variance granted by the board of adjustments shall be valid for a period longer than 180 days from the date upon which the variance is granted unless within such period one a building permit is obtained and the construction or alteration of the structure is commenced and pursued diligently towards completion or two a certificate of occupancy is obtained and a use or occupancy commenced. The board of adjustment may grant extensions not exceeding 180 days each upon written application without notice or hearing as per section 400.940. Approvals required vote. A concurring vote of four members of the board shall be necessary to reverse any order, requirement, decision, or determination of any such administrative official are to decide in favor of the applicant on any matter upon which is required to pass under the article or to affect any varian variation in the chapter. First agenda item 1450 Page Industrial Boulevard. Would the applicant for the record please step to the podium and state your name and address?

And Mr. Chair, can I interject before we start the case? Sure. So, as uh the chair mentioned, a vote of four is necessary. Usually there's five voting members. Um so that would mean you have to have a unanimous approval. Um, if you are interested in like rolling until the next meeting, um, I usually like to ask the applicants because you it would need to be unanimous, but um, if there's a fifth person, you have kind of one vote to spare. It's it's up to you. I just like to try to get everything moving as soon as we can. I I just always like to ask, you know, because it's it's your petition. Yeah.

Is that how you feel as well? Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Applicant.

So, my name's Timothy Bower project or not project, property manager for 1450 page industrial. And we're basically just trying to get a frontal fence and a side fence put on the property. We applied for the variances. We wanted a 7 foot fence. which I said couldn't have a 7 foot fence. This is a industrial area. There's 7 foot fence to the right of us or 7 foot fence in front of us. Everybody around us basically has their property fenced in because of the location of the building. So, we're trying to get the variance proof for a 7 foot fence. And we also put in the variance for possibly putting barb wire across the top and then putting the fence in the front of the parking lot where everybody else has theirs. And I got a few photos I can show you of the joining properties if you want to see.

I would. Sure. You can start over there and pass them. We'll pass him around. Thank you. Yes.

This is the propert. building. We're put

They do have the site plan and an aerial. So, we're just You want to go over to the road? We want to put the fence. So, hold on a second. So, this right here is he needs to make sure like you're getting on the microphone. Yeah. So, yeah. Sorry. If you want to look at the pictures, that's fine. But if you're having discussions, it's got to be caught on the microphone. It is.

There is no existing Again, if you want to pass the photos, you can, but Okay. If you're having discussions and it's not being picked up, we can't record it. It's a legal hearing.

This is the proposed area of where we want to put our fence. And as you can see in the photo, the building to the left of us, their se their 7 foot fence is right there with it. So I'm going to send this to you. It's all the blue highlighted

and uh when we get to the exhibits, we'll just add another exhibit. Is it okay if we keep those copies so we can scan them in? Okay. Yeah, I have I'm just labeling them as exhibit uh A1. I have a question for you. Is I don't know if you've seen these pictures, the the ones that are bob wire, is that actually not in Overland, but in St. Louis County Incorporated? Uh without seeing them, I wouldn't know for sure. And and or when they were installed, if it was prior to the zoning code being enacted, I'm going to guess it's old and rusty. Oh, yeah. I just saw this one. unincorporated. So, I didn't know if that wasn't Yeah, it may be an unincorporated uh portion

and that's on the other side of the abandoned railroad track that's right behind our our building, right? And we're just trying to keep it. We We spent a lot of money on the parking lot updating it and then we painted the building. When we took it over, there was graffiti all over the back of the building. Parking lot was in rubble. So, we're just trying to keep it nice, trying to keep the tractor trailers and the other businesses from using the lot because they think it's a free public turnaround.

The tractor trailers pull in. They turn around in our drive in our parking lot and they pull out and just overall safety to keep our property safe.

All right. Thank you. Readings of exhibit by title only A1 through A1. Exhibit A1 agenda. Exhibit A2 application PZ25-000026. Exhibit A3 application PZ25-000027. Exhibit A4 application PZ25- 0028. Exhibit A5, staff report. Exhibit A6, notice of public hearing. Exhibit A7, ordinances. Exhibit A8, denied fence permit. Exhibit A9, site plan. Exhibit A10, GIS map. Exhibit A1 11 pics of the site pro provided by the the owner

property manager. Property manager. Thank you. Applicants. Are there any questions regarding the exhibits presented? Yes, chairman. I do actually. So, you're saying in those pictures are the existing fences currently, but you have no knowledge of when they were put in, do you? I have no knowledge of when the other buildings have put their fences in. Okay. Is there any fence at your location now? No. Nothing currently. Right now, there's nothing. So, right now, this would only be for this location.

Correct. Okay. And I guess we can talk about um the actual um applications as we get there, but that was my question. If there was fence pre previously or if you knew when the other fence was put in. No, I I have a question. Uh thank you, Tim. Dan, so the uh I get this the fence up to the lines because you said trucks are turning around there, correct?

But the bob wire I just for people or you got a lot of people walking through there, too? From our knowledge, from what we were told when they took over the property, it was an area of where I guess kids, younger generation would come in, do their drugs, spray paint the back of the building, whatever they wanted to do. And that was the barb wires just keep people climbing over the fence, right? the the you want even if you couldn't get the bob wire, you'd want the fence for the trucks, right? Even if I can't get the barb wire, I'd be happy with fence in front and 7 foot.

Gotcha. Okay. Just ask. Yeah. One question. Yes, sir. What u what type of business is it that would require this much uh security? This is this is a personal warehouse. We use it for our own personal storage. What kind of business are you in?

I take I manage personal properties and this gentleman had bought this for his they're getting ready to start maybe possibly building a new house. So, a lot of their personal high-end belongings will be going into this building for storage while they're building. And then once we're done, he'll probably end up we're trying to make it kind of turnkey so when we're done with a building, we can sell it to another company that says, "Hey, this good deal. It's all everything's done." Okay. Thank you. Move right in. Okay. Community development, present the city's case.

Thank you, chairman. On May 15, 2025, the applicant submitted a fence permit application to install a 7 foot chain link fence which included barb wire installed at top the chainlink fence as Mr. Bowers explained. Further, the application indicated the fence is proposed to be installed in the required front yard. The fence permit application was denied on May 15th due to the height of the chain link fence which violates the maximum allowed to buy our code is 4 foot. The barbed wire which is prohibited and the location required in the front yard as per section 400.360. Our code specifically says that you're not allowed to put fencing in the required front yard. Good. May I ask a question to Katie?

Yes, sir. There are options for fencing higher than six foot. Correct. 4 foot, right? Like privacy fences, wood fence. Wood fence. Yes, sir. What about like the new vinyl fencing? Is that included? So, that would be included as well up to six foot. Um, I will caveat this conversation with that. We are actually looking to revise our fence code. Um, it's nowhere done. It's in the preliminary stages at this time. Um, one of the things that I am recommending specifically in the industrial areas is to increase that to a minimum of a six foot.

Um, which, you know, is at the discretion of the city council. It's not up to me. It's not up to our city attorney. We prepare it. We propose it. Um, but again, that's preliminary stages. It's not even You're right. You're right. Radar for them yet. I understand that. Um follow barbwire we are still stating to be prohibited in the revised code. Um the question you brought up earlier was the location of the pre of the building next to them. Do we know where our city line is? Is it being broken by that building? So if you look on the GIS map that was given to you in your packet. Yes.

You see the purple line to the south of their building. So there's that's that's the corporate limits. So they're right at the corporate limits of the city. It's behind them and it's to the south of them. So to the east and to the south, they are on the dead end of Page Industrial. And then there's railroad tracks. Yeah. So Mr. Bowman, what reference are you using? What building is that then? The reference that you showed us earlier. That building. So if you're standing there looking at our building, the cracks are on your right. That building is directly to the left. So it's appears to be within Overland.

Oh, yeah. Anything on Page Industrial, those on Page Industrial are in Overland. And then the building that's directly across the street is still on page industrial. It's just they So, from what he tells us is City of Overland, when you come in, you got the building to the left of us with their big seven foot fence. As soon as you get past that building where uh the can't remember the name of it, a dent wizard I think and then there's another building attached to that.

Everything from Dent Wizard backs back is not maintained by Overlander City. It's that little bit of the road. If we want to fix it, we got to fix it ourselves. Or St. Louis County, right? No, I don't even think county deals with because the Dent Wizard, the guy who owns the complex of Dent Wizard actually owns that little piece of the road. Yeah, some of those, from my understanding, some of those streets back there are privately maintained. So, they're in the city limits, but they're privately maintained.

Again, look at the GIS map. You'll see what he's talking about. 1451, which is just to the west of him. It's not across the street. their properties actually touch. Correct. Gotcha. Yep. I I have one more question. When when we voted I probably two years ago on a fence on Midland for sound for the buses. Wasn't that all the way at the front of the property line? And wasn't that over 7 foot? So it did come up. So if you remember that that didn't enclose that whole front yard, but it did come up on the Midland side that was around their parking lot. So that was also on the east side of that building that also has two front yards. Oh,

if you remember, it goes the other street going the other way. Correct. So kind of a different circumstance. Okay. And one way I can see where you're going with that, but they actually have access on both sides. So on Midland and then on Shelly, I believe it is. I see what you're saying exactly because it wasn't the front of the building at all. Really? Yeah. We we have a automatic gate proposed in that front line that open up that basically that a big section of that fence when day use is needed or deliveries are coming. Okay. Thank you. Additional comments from city attorney. Go ahead.

When he brought up the the point that he's willing to, you know, do something different, would that make uh us have to look at a different application? No. No. Uh if there were uh differences that were kind of proposed and discussed here. Um, that could be all determined here as well. So, not that you're saying this or you're saying this, but if he said 6 and 1/2 ft, we could deal with the variance for that specifically, we would just amend the motion even though the application was for seven. Correct. Understand?

Um, so in looking and uh Mr. Chair, you asked if I had any additional comments in looking at some of the other properties. Um there there is some uniqueness to the way that the building is set back at the very back of this property. Um obviously, you know, a lot of these are bigger industrial buildings that are on corner lots just how it's set up, but this one's kind of um kind of a knob end where the buildings in the back. Dentworth is is similar, but that build that property probably extends back further. So it is it does have some slight difference compared to some of these other industrial properties. Um other than that, you know, the fencing that might be in and around might have uh existed before annexation or um might be in unincorporated or something like that. So it's hard to know what that is, but it it the if the images show it exists, it exists. So, you know, take take with that what you will, I guess. But any other questions specifically for me.

Or it could have been granted by a variance. Has one, have you had any problems with that? Uh, brings you here this evening for this request. Just the only problems we're having is people thinking that it's an open parking lot for their own usage. Dent Wizard, they come over, park their cars quite a bit, and then the tractor trailers delivering heavy loads of metal and stuff, they instead of pulling up and backing back out like they should, they just say, "Okay, we're just that's a nice big parking lot. Let's tear it up." And it just it ruins the asphalt.

Well, all that weight. Haven't found any vandalism to require barb wire and No, I haven't we haven't had any more vandalism since we've done the painting in the parking lot and we got cameras all the way around the building now. So, we haven't seen any more vandalism. The barb wire, like I said before, if that's a make or break the deal, I can throw we can get rid of the barb wire. Okay. And you said you got a new a new automatic gate that you guys are using to keep the track. We don't have it yet. It's on the plan. If we put the fence up, right?

Then they'll we'll have an automatic gate for whenever we need to access it or we have tractor trailers coming on our but that'll help keep the other people out, right? That'll keep everybody out. Okay. Thank you. So, would you consider uh changing your 7 foot fence to a sixoot fence? I asked him that to begin with. He's like, I want He He's really adamant about a 7 foot fence. Sixoot fence. I mean, might as well not

Well, they're talking about changing the ordinances to sixoot fence chain link instead of seven foot fence. We could get out in front and do a sixoot fence maybe easier than we could approve a seven foot fence. Again, I mean, I know what the owner of the property wants. He really wants that 7 foot fence. And we're we're tying onto a 7 foot fence. not really tying on to it, but it's close enough to where it's going to look like it's a continuous fence where if we do a six six and a half or six foot fence, you're gonna okay, then your curb appeal is going to look a little goofy, too. All right,

if that makes any sort of sense. And I I it says the applicant presents your case in hardship. I think you have. Are you anything else you'd like to add? No, I don't. That's okay. Comments and questions from the board. Yeah, I'd like to exclude the bob wire. I agree. I would like to amend this to be just the fencing would be an option. Yeah, I don't have the problem with the 7 foot. I have a problem with wire. Okay. You okay with that? I'm good with that. Okay. Still have to vote on it, gentlemen. Right. Right. Well, no. No. Yes. Absolutely. In charge. Comments from the audience. Thank you.

Okay. I will now entertain a motion to approve the variance from section 400 360 point D.2 fences and screens to allow the construction of a 7 foot chain link fence higher than the 4ft approved above the surrounding grade as presented within the applicant's plan due to practical difficulties as demonstrated by the applicant. I have a motion. I'll make that motion. I'll agree to that too. Pull the vote. Kipper, yes. Jones, yes. Seal, yes. Okonnell,

I really like six foot better, but yes, I'll approve it. I will now entertain a motion to variance no bob wires within the installation of three strands of bob wire permitted at top of 7 foot fence as presented within the applicant's plan due to the practical difficulties and demonstrated by the applicant. Do I have a motion? So we would reject this if that's what if if you have to approve this to put the you have to make the motions and to and then vote on it. Right. Okay. I'll make a motion to bob to approve the bob wire. You're saying no. At least I can speak for you. Approve it first and then then we're going to reject it. That's what she's saying. I have to make a motion. No, we cannot make a motion.

I know. I don't know. Katie Kattorney, it's my opinion that a a motion should be made and voted to dispense with the issue. So, um I would say a motion to approve it, making that motion and seconding it and then roll call would count the vote. Not necessary, right? Well, you would still roll call and say no. Right. Right. But I mean, if nobody makes a motion to approve, then it's disapproved. Right. Well, it just kind of sits in the ether. It does and it's doesn't really die. Generally, my opinion that we should vote and dispense with the, you know. Okay. A motion to approve. I make that motion. Second.

Pull the vote. Jones. No. Seal. No. Okonnell's a no. Kipper. No. Okay. So, you understand, don't you, sir? Yeah. Thank you. I'll now entertain a motion to approve a variance from section 400.360. C.1 front yards to allow the installation of a chain link fence in the front yard as defined within the zoning code up to the property line as presented within the applicant's plan. and due to practical difficulties as demonstrated by the applicant. Do I have a motion? I make that motion. Second. I'll second.

Okay. Pull the vote. Seal? Yes. Okonnell are yes. Kipper, yes. Jones, yes. Okay. You have your front yard and your seven foot fence, but you don't have the bob wire. Appreciate it. Okay. No, thank you for for understanding. Thank you. So once we get the variances uh processed and signed off on, we can release the permit for you. So they'll contact you and let you know.

We'll contact Easter to let them know. So we'll we'll process the variances, get those signed, and then we will process the building permit because now we can release the building permit and we'll let them know it's ready for pickup. It's for the seven foot hygiene fence to include the the area in the front yard set back but not for the Yeah. Technically there will be like a denial letter potentially that also comes with it. The denial is because it's correct. Yes. So there'll be two. So don't see denial and be like oh crap what happened? There'll be three separate variances just like you apply for. So one for the seven foot chain link that'll be approved. One for the barb wire that'll be denied. And then there'll be one for the prayer. Yeah.

Thank you guys. Thank you. Where did freak out warm up? That's it. You're done. Yeah. Take a break. Let's take on this daycare.

There he is. Excuse me. He didn't abandon us. Okay. Second agenda item, 9636 Midland Boulevard. Would the applicant, for the record, please step to the podium and state your name and address. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

My name is Christy Slum. I'm the regional manager for the OD Kids locations in Missouri and Illinois. Um, I'll be representing ODB Kids uh early education. This is Amber Bleley. Uh she is the prior facility director for the 9636 Midland Boulevard location. Um and was with that with that school pri under the prior ownership as well as through the acquisition and the rebranding. Okay. Does the applicant for the record have any items that you would like to be entered into exhibits for evidence? I don't have anything in addition to the original application for variances.

Great. Reading exhibits by title only B1 through B8. Exhibit B1, agenda. Exhibit B2, application PZ25-000029. Exhibit B3, staff report. Exhibit B4, notice of public hearing. Exhibit B5, ordinances. Exhibit B6, denied signed application. Exhibit B7, site plan. Exhibit B8 GIS map. Are there any questions regarding the exhibits presented? If no, then the ex exhibits B1 through B8 are received into evidence as presented. I will now entertain a motion to approve a variance from section 400.840 pointb.2. too.

Do you want to talk about it first? Well, I don't have it on my agenda. I was like, when do I interrupt him? I got a question. It's not on my board. It's not on my paper. I don't know. You're right. Dian said, "My bad." All right, let me let me back up. I thought you would have this down by pad. You look like a priest now to you. Let's get out of here. We didn't We Are there any questions regarding the exhibits presented? We already did that. Community Development. Present the city's case. Thank you, chairman. I don't know how it got missed.

OTB Kids was formerly BrightArt Academy. They'd been there for years. Um, actually, back in 2023, they had applied for a sign permit for the ground monument sign that was there and it was denied. We historically have not been able to find a sign permit that was ever approved for that ground mounted sign variance. Nothing had been issued for that. It's oversized. The sign was too big. everything violated and it was just one of those things I guess for years and years and years nobody paid attention to until you guys applied for that sign. It's been denied since then. Um and I forgive me I forgot her name but she came in from Florida. Michelle, perfect. Thank you. Um she came in and applied for this sign permit. Um they're trying to eliminate the ground mount mounted sign which is behind their dumpster anyway. Um and place one on the building itself. Attached wall signs are permitted. The size of the sign is fine. It's that height off of grade, which is requires 10 foot by our code. Their building's not high enough to get 10 foot off of grade. Um so we had to deny it, but um they're trying to come into compliance as best that they can. Um so that's all I have.

Thank you, Katie. Additional comments from city attorney. This is just a quirk of the sign code. I you know I don't usually say this about most variances but this is really benign. It's not a big deal. Um I believe we've also varied from this code section. We have before two years ago for a a home daycare business. Yeah, it's been longer than two years timewise. Yeah, it's probably been like four almost four, but yes, very similar situation. It was for an adult day center facility. Um the same situation if you guys remember it was right off Morvin.

They can't get the height. The building's not big enough and our code doesn't allow them to go above the roof line or put something on the roof. So they're trying to just make sure that they have some branding and um if you guys haven't seen their facility here, they have another I am personally aware of another facility in Wville that they built brand new. It's a clean operation. So this isn't, you know, going to be falling down in a week or a month or a year. applicant, do you have anything else to present?

Yeah, I mean I I would just be happy to kind of talk through the process so far. I mean like you stated, you know, this the previous sign was there for well I mean it was over 25 years. Um you know that was obviously however that was constructed that was done by our prior ownership and board president who we are now no longer associated with. Um and it it feels like you know since that that permit was that, you know, we've just been kind of picking apart all of these little details. Um, we have removed the monument sign. Um, the pillars are still standing because we're having difficulty finding someone that wants to take away that debris. Um, but the sign has been removed. Um, and yeah, I mean, we're just we're just trying to advertise our school. I we're a nationally accredited child care facility. We provide care to over 100 families. just want to do the right thing and understand, you know, the code and be in compliance, but we can't help the height of our building and we don't want to do anything that would jeopardize the integrity of, you know, the sign. We don't want something that's going to be it just seems like there's not very many options for us and we really just want to have a sign on our building like everybody else does.

Okay, question. Uh do you do you own the building next to it still also? Was at one time didn't that daycare own both buildings? So we purchased the property next he's talking about to the east. There's the other daycare. They're not affiliated. Oh, but at one time didn't the previous owner own them both? He rented that property from a prior owner. That is where the that is where the business started. They leased that building and then due to some issues with flooding and um the property manager that they were working with, they decided that they didn't want to continue that leasing agreement and that's when they constructed the school where it sits now. Okay.

And and Amber's correct to the west they purchased that property. There was a house on it that was demolished. They consolidated that lot. They've done a lot. Yes. Yes. Yes, sir. My son's but under a different name. He turned out any other comments or questions from the board?

I do, Jeff. Yeah, chairman. I'm sorry, chairman. Um, B1 has a letter well written, but it also has options that you wrote. So, from what I understand though, they get larger as we go with options. Okay. So, you're asking for the smallest option, right? 51 in diameter, circular. Yes, that's what's on the sign permit application. My understanding that they were in order of preference. Okay. Right. So, I just want to be understanding that like those other ones are not going to happen. I mean, no. Okay. Okay. And um the um um option of doing this is real soon, I guess, too. Putting this up as soon as you can.

Yes. Good. Okay. Because it is a beautiful building. Thank you. That's all. chairman.

Thank you, Tim. Any other questions from the board? Comments from the audience. Now, I will entertain a motion to approve variance from section 400.840 point B.2 Two, attach signs to allow the installation of a face mounted sign on the front building wall of 3 and 1/2 ft above the ground or pavement and shall be recessed where involving a pitched roof location as presented with the applicant's plan and due to the practical difficulties in demonstrate as demonstrated by the applicant. Do I have a motion?

Make a motion to accept. Second. I'll second. Pull the vote. Seal. Yes. Okonnell's a yes. Kipper, yes. And Jones, yes. Okay, you have been approved. I really appreciate your time and thank you for hearing. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you bringing the business and to overland here. We're happy to be here. Fantastic. Thank you. choice. We get the variances signed off. We'll get the sign. Thank you. Have a good night. Make a motion to adjurnn. Thank you, Tim.

I second that motion, Dan. All in favor? I I We are ajourned. Thank you. The sign code thing that was easy. I mean,