Board of Adjustment - Regular Meeting

Okay,

ready? Yes, sir. Okay. The board of adjustment meeting for the city of Overland, Missouri to be held May 13, 2026 will now be called to order. I will now conduct roll call for the 827th public hearing of the board of adjustment. Dan Kipper is excused. Tim Jones here. Jay Fetch here. Jeff Okonnell here. John Seal here. Legal counsel Joseph Bond here. Community Development Katie Sanders here. Community Development Diane Robinson here.

Has the board reviewed the minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday, March 11th, 2026? And if so, does anyone have questions or changes to be made to the minutes? No, sir. Miss John is excused as an alternate. I don't know. I'm just not here. Okay. Well, we expected you to be here and you were out. You did tell us that you weren't going to be here, so she marked you as excused.

Would you prefer us to put alternate excused? Okay, Joe, do you have any weigh in on that? Okay, we can make that change. All right, leave it as it is. Leave it as it is. All right. Thank you, sir. I will now entertain a motion to approve the minutes of March 11th, 2026 board of adjustment hearing. I'll make that motion, your honor. Okay, Jay. Second motion. I'll second it, Tim. Pull the vote. Seal. Yes. Okonnell's a yes. Jones, yes. And Fetch,

yes. Okay. All parties present wishing to partake in any discussion of the applications for variances or appeals submitted to the board. Will you please step forward to be sworn in? Once you have been sworn in, you may take your seat. Okay, raise your right hands. Do you solemnly swear to affirm or affirm that the testimony you will give at this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes.

Thank you. You can have a seat. Period of validity and required votes as per section 400.935. period of validity unless as otherwise specified by the board of adjustment in their approval for an application. No variance granted by the board of adjustments shall be valid for a period longer than 180 days from the date upon which the variance is granted unless within such period. One, a building permit is obtained and the construction or alteration of the structure has commenced and pursued digit digit diligently towards completion. Or two, a certificate of occupancy is obtained and a use or occupation commenced. The board of adjustment may grant extensions not exceeding 180 days each upon written application without notice or hearing as per section 400.940. Approvals required vote. A concurring vote of four members of the board shall be necessary to reverse any order requirement, decision or determination of any such administrative official or to decide in favor of the applicant on any matter upon which is required to pass under the article or to effect any variation in the chapter. First agenda item, 1540 Fairview Avenue. Would the applicant for the record please step to the podium and state your name and address?

Yes. My name is Joseph Hill. My address is 1122 Dovergate Drive in Kirkwood, Missouri. Okay. Does the applicant, for the record, have any items that you would like to enter as exhibits for evidence beyond what you've given us? A no.

Thank you. Okay. Reading of the exhibits by title only. Exhibit A1, agenda. Exhibit A2, notice of public hearing. Exhibit A3, staff report. Exhibit A4, application PZ26-00007. Exhibit A5, application PZ26-00008. Exhibit A6, copy of ordinances. Exhibit A7, plan. Exhibit A8, GIS map. Are there any questions regarding the exhibits presented? Okay. If no questions, and exhibits A1 through A8 are received into evidence as presented. Hearing progression order. Community development present the city's case.

Thank you, chairman. The proposed land use was subject to a site plan review related to a conditional use permit application and it was determined at the time there were encroachments into the sideyard and rear yard setbacks. The property is located in the M1 manufacturing zoning district which as outlined in section 400.240 240 requires a 20 foot sideyard setback. The north side of the rear building encroaches 2 foot one inch into the 20 foot setback. Additionally, in the M1 zoning district, a 35- ft rear yard setback is required and the east side of the rear building encroaches 18t 8 in into the rear yard setback. On April 21st, 2026, the planning and zoning commission reviewed and recommended approval of the site plan contingent upon the applicant obtaining variance approvals.

I have nothing further. Thank you. Additional comments from the city attorney. Yeah, pardon me. This is uh just another one of those cases where we see an older building that was built um closer than it probably should have been at the time. Um and we're just trying to clean that up now that we have a chance to do a site review. So this would allow the building to remain in its footprint as it's been there for probably ever. So Okay. Thank you. Applicant, present your case in hardship.

Yes. It's present your case in hardship. Why you want this variance? Oh, because uh the building's been there since the 1960s. Um I represent the owner of the building. There's a new uh use that's going to take over the building. Uh forklift sales and rental company. Um and yeah, the building's been there for 65 years. Okay. Thank you. Comments and questions from the board. Yes, Katie. What uh when what was our uh setbacks before this? Like in the 70s? Do you remember? I wasn't here in the 70s.

I'm No, what I'm asking is has the setbacks been changed recently? So in 1988 was the last time that our zoning code was fully revised and adopted. And so I would assume if there was anything that was different, it would have been prior to 1988. But I did not review to see what they were prior to 1988. All right. Thank you. Yes, sir. I guess I would add that uh just looking up and down the street at the aerials, almost every building is at least as encroaches at least as badly as this one. So, I think it must it must have changed at some point since these buildings were built.

Thank you. Comments from the audience. I will now entertain a motion to approve a variance from section 400.240. 240 point D.4 point B sideyard setback to allow a 2 foot 1 in encroachment into the Y into the sideyard setback of the rear building as presented within the applicant's plan and due to the practical difficulties as demonstrated by the applicant. Do I have a motion to approve? Motion to approve, your honor. Second. Yes. Oh, go ahead. Okay. Pull the vote. Okonnell's yes. Jones, yes. Fetch,

yes. Seal, yes. Okay. I will now entertain a motion to approve a variance from section 400.240 point D.4 point C rear yard setback to allow an 18 foot 8 in encroachment into the rear yard setback of the rear building as presented within the applicant's plan. And due to the practical difficulties as demonstrated by the applicant, do I have a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Second. Yes. Okay. Okay. Pull the vote. Jones, yes. Fetch, yes. Seal, yes. And a yes.

Thank you, sir. Good luck. Second agenda item 2904 Lesmer Court. Would the applicant for the record please step to the podium and state your name and address? Jared Challenge 2904 Lesnar Court.

Reading of the exhibits by title only. Exhibit B1. Agenda. Exhibit B2, notice of public hearing. Exhibit B3, staff report. Exhibit B4, application PZ25-000040. Exhibit B5, denied build denied building permit application and letter. Exhibit B6, copy of ordinances. Exhibit B7, plan. Exhibit B8, pictures of violation. Exhibit B9, GIS map. Are there any questions regarding the exhibits presented? If no questions, then exhibits B1 through B9 are received into evidence as presented. Hearing progression order, community development, present the city's case.

Thank you, chairman. The property owner constructed a pergola within the 30foot front yard setback. The pergola was constructed without an approved building permit. the zoning coordinator has included uh within your staff report a lengthy history of how we got from day one to where we are today. Um if you've had an opportunity to read through that because it started back in I believe of July of 2025. The property owner constructed the pergola which violates section 400.180 point D.4.8 a front yard setbacks which as I stated requires a 30-foot front yard setback and as stated previously the property owner did not obtain a building permit prior to the construction of the pergola. The pergola measures 19 ft by 8 ft and fully encroaches into the 30-foot setback.

Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Additional comments from the city attorney. So, this is a case. I mean, usually with our front yard setbacks, you're looking at things like porches, uh, carports, uh, buildings. Um, this is kind of unique in the sense that it's it's a pergola. So, it is a structure under the code. It is an encroachment. It's slightly different than what we are usually trying to prevent people putting in their front yard, like sheds and that sort of thing. Obviously, if it was just planter boxes, I would assume that that's perfectly allowable under the code depending on how big. Sure.

Depending on how high is if it has a footing or a pier, but if it was just a planter box that was on the ground, right, you know, 8 to 12 inches up. Yeah. Correct. So, for what it's worth, I mean, it is a structure. That's why we're here. It is different than what we would typically see like a garage or a carport or a a shed with a permanent roof or something like that because it has footings and stuff like that. That's kind of why we're here. But, you know, that's why this is slightly unique compared to what we would typically see with like a a porch encroachment or a any other sort of front yard setback that we're typically used to seeing. I have a question for the

Joe. Um, when I put in a fence, they came through throughout the period of putting up the fence saying, "Oh, okay. Now you can move to the next stage. How do we get past that now that it's completed? We just approve that it was done through those exact you know like mine was I don't know what it was called freeze level or something like that for the post and all that I think just accept everything as

so I can respond to that if this would be approved by the board of adjustment we would then issue the building permit application which he did apply for once he received the letter but it had to be denied because it encroached in the front yard. If you approved it, we would issue the building permit. We would make them dig along the peering or the footing to verify that it was 30 in deep and then the inspector would check the framing to make sure that it was built to code. What if it's not? If it's not, then he would have to pour it specifically. Our vote whatever would be null and void.

No. So the variance would run with the land. So if he were to put a essentially if he were to approve this, it would allow the same footprint pergola to be reconstructed if it weren't built up to code at that time. So okay. So if it meets the code, he'd have to bring it up to code. He'd have to bring it up to code. if this would allow him to do that. And but let's be clear, if that was damaged over 50%, I just want to make sure that everybody understands if we issued the variance and it was damaged at 50% over 50%. That variance would allow allow him to to build another one. Correct?

Just so you know. So if you approve this variance, he can have a pergola in his front yard, 19 ft by 8 ft in the same footprint for the next 100 years or longer. How deep are the peers having to be? Pardon me. How deep are the peers? 30 inches. 24. We we say dig down 30 inches. You have to at least have a 24 inch. Well, you can probably answer that now. I can. We're at uh just at 30 in because that's as deep as my go. But again, we would require him to dig along the side of it to verify. Yeah. Chairman, I have another question for Katie, if I may. Go ahead. Does this set precedent then? Anybody can do it. Start building. I mean,

case by case basis. No, but it would be approved. Nessa, I think it's a slippery slope and I don't know that I want to answer that question. I mean, he didn't obtain the building permit. That's in violation number one. And then when he did buy build it, he built it in the front yard. That's violation number two. So, cuz what I'm saying is he could have three in his front yard. Well, I think if in terms of what we have before us tonight, we'll start there. We would write the variance very specifically for the size of that pergola, specific to the plan that's attached to it and the location so that he couldn't put five more and we just give him a, you know, a free pass to put whatever in his front yard.

Yeah, that would be number one. Um, but in terms of answering your question, does it set a precedence that he built it and now you're going to give him a pass on that variance? Well, what's to stop him from doing it again or the neighbor from doing it? Yeah. So, I think you have to consider that. What's his hardship? Why is this pervolent in the front yard as opposed to the back where most people have or the sideyard because he's on a corner lot

that has a fenced lot. For what it's worth, in terms of precedent, um, ideally each case is unique because it is turns on the unique circumstances of the property. Um, if there if the variance is granted in a sense that doesn't rely on the uniqueness of the case, you could find an easier instance of precedent. So all that's to say that's why we try to tease out these hardships because everyone's hardship is specific to them. If if we can't find hardship all the time then some of it is presidential or can be for what it's worth. I mean again when we talk about certain cases usually if it's in the same footprint that it was forever we've typically granted those

because that makes sense in this community. Um but you reference like sheds For what it's worth, I mean the reason the chair reads kind of this big long block of text is so we can tie it into the specific plans. So it would be for a pergola because of that's what the plans are submitted. If somebody else were to submit something like a a shed, I think that's a different case for what it's worth. You know, this is impervious. We would deny a shed too in the front yard. Just so we're clear. It's not a norm. It's not a normal pergola. It's a garden pergola where he's got plants. It's a structure. So for in terms of for our considered a structure though,

it's a structure that's in the in the front yard setback. Front yard setback is intended that no construction or building is in that setback. Right. Well, chairman, if you want to ask a question or follow whatever hardship, I want to hear that. That's coming, Tim. Yep. Okay. Any other questions? Okay. applicant, present your case and hardship.

All right. So, I started with the two uh 8 by4 garden beds that are underneath the parallel. I filled those with probably about 4,000 lbs of dirt. I then planted some beautiful flowers underneath. Well, that's the one spot in my front yard underneath my giant three pin oak trees that got full day sun. So, my uh several hundred dollars in flowers started to die. So, I made a garden ornament and that's how I labeled it on the uh permanent application so that it could provide shade for the hydrangeas that were underneath. So, and I also use those uh garden beds to grow food as well.

Okay. Why not move the plans? Questions and comments from the board. Go ahead, Tim. Why not move the plants? Why not move the plants? Because it's several thousand pounds of dirt. Okay. But wasn't this expensive build? It was about 460 bucks, I think. Yeah, Mr. Chairman.

Go ahead, John. It's my understanding of the code that the uh 30foot from the elevation of the front of a house to the street was to make it uniform with all the all the other houses and keeping people from adding a porch and then ultimately adding a porch and then adding uh more living space to the house. Now it's closer to the street. This is clearly not going to be additional living space. And I I think it's considered as more uh lawn art, lawn decorations than anything else. Okay. Any other questions? Okay. I've got a couple. Um I seem that Well, first question would be why'd you put it in the front yard? You have a big section to the to the as facing the house. You got a big section to the left with a big fence running down. Why didn't you put it over there?

So, it's in the front yard because uh one of the garden plots is for food exclusive and I have uh animals that are in the back. So, I have fruit trees. I have 10 fruit trees now that are planted along the back. Right. But um but as you look at your as you look at the picture of your property, you put it right next to the driveway when the house is next to that and then you got a fence all the way over here. Why didn't you put it over here like on the side of your house coming out to the front? Have you seen this instead of instead of if I may? Yeah.

Instead of right in front of your house at the driveway. So, are you asking why I did not uh put the pergola over next to this garden bed? Yeah, that is because there is an 8 foot gate that leads to the backyard. So, if I put the pergola there, the 113 in sections would not have fit. H because it looks like it would have it wouldn't fit between the opening of the gates because the gate opens about 2 feet to the left of a garden bed that is on the left side of the house. Okay. And you've got a garden you got a garden bed or something on that fence right there. Correct.

And what you couldn't have put it in front of that or I mean and and also you know fruit I mean when you're growing vegetables and stuff they usually require full sun. I mean, we have we have a couple beds in our backyard and we grow tomatoes and peppers and stuff like that and beans and stuff and they they require full sun. So, what I mean and the and the the flowers that you put in there, there are many flowers that will that are good for full sun. And I'm just confused why you I mean I'm I'm confused why you had to put it right there instead of over there and you had you got something there in front of the fence anyway and uh to say that it doesn't fit because you got a 8 foot gate there. Well, you've got a bed there already.

Correct. The gate is to the left of the bed. Why not in the middle of the yard? Because that's not where the garden beds were. I built the garden beds first. Well, I think his question is why there? Because that's where the garden beds were prior to that, right? No, prior that you moved in and they were there. No, I did build the garden beds. That's my question. Why build them? Three months later, I built the park. I understand. Pre-existing garden bed was No, no, no. He he built everything. I did I did build everything. However, there was a succession of events being garden beds several months later. I I hear what you're saying. Why not anywhere else for the pergola or for the garden beds? Garden beds

because that is the best place to put them for the footprint of what I was looking to do. I thought that it looked the best outlining the driveway. I could not expand the driveway. I wanted to do something with the lamp post that was already there other than just cut it down because I hang bird feeders on it. So that is why I chose to put the garden beds there. And there are a lot of vegetables and plants that do not require direct sun and they actually die in direct sun. Lettuce being one of those. So spinach and celery. Did you get any advice on like getting a permit prior to this? I did not get a permit prior to this because it is not a permanent structure. It's not a what?

Permanent structure. Permanent structure. Well, it is a structure, right, Joe? I mean it is under the under our code. Under our code. Absolutely. It is a structure because it is something that is built. It is not permanent because it is not in the ground. Are the posts in the ground? The posts are not in the ground. So how is it secured? How do you keep it from blowing into the neighbor's house? So the posts are screwed into brackets that are cemented into the So So they're attached to a concrete pier. Correct. Okay. So that's a structure. So technically it it is Yeah, permit.

For what it's worth, uh, different codes interpret structure, building, all this stuff differently. Our code is pretty broad on what we determine what is or isn't a structure. This would be a structure. So, this doesn't have a foundation under it. Uh, it has footings. Footings. It does have footings that go in, right? Okay. But the posts are not 30 in deep. The posts that flush with the ground. But the peers are 30 in. But that is what I do. It's all connected together, right? Okay. So, it is 30 inches into the ground. The peers, correct? Okay. You got you got just the one light in there. Is that what I'm seeing here?

I have one gas lamp post. Right. Okay. And are you going to are you have any plans on screening that in? I do not. Okay. Okay. chairman. Go ahead. And you know, I look at the picture, the second picture, I look at the picture here, and especially this big one here, and it shows, I mean, it shows that it's shaded by the big tree in the front yard, and over here, it's sunny over here on the side, but here where you put the structure, it's already in the shade. I invite you to come by at 12:30 to 1:00 when it is in full sun for the rest of the day.

Well, for one hour, I'm not sure. It's not for 1 hour. It starts at 12:30 to 1 when it is in full sun for the rest of the day. So, for the majority of the midday sun and the heat, that spot, that entire spot from the street to the house, uh, is in full sun. So, back to your statement about the trees in the back. There's just no room for this in the back. There is no appropriate spot for it in the back. Your

honor, I went by there and looked at it and I thought it looked really nice. I mean, I don't know where he bought it at or anything like that, but it it looks like a real nice structure and I think it adds to the uh character of the uh house in that corner spot.

What the chairman mentioned earlier is saying about gas light and everything like this. Did you even think of that being dug there that you could hit a gas line? I called the 8100 dig. You did? And they approved this? They did. Okay. Well, as much as they approve, they come out and mark where it lines up. It looks like it's it's a walkway. Then there's additional I can't really tell. Is that right? It's like boxes space boxes. Correct. There is about a 10-in gap between the two boxes for the lamp post and so that I can read around. So, it seems like you're really into articultural here and everything like this. Are you going to grow this and do more of this?

Uh, I'm not going to do another pergola if that's what you're asking. More boxes. I will probably be doing more boxes in the front yard. Uh, I would like to do some on the sideyard and some in the backyard. There is a lettuce that I like to grow and it needs shade. So, the sideyard next to the carport would be a good place for that. Does this plan on being stained or painted any way? It is uh strictly treated lumber. Uh, whenever it starts to age, I will power wash it. make it look as it does now. And also in the front, I see you got some kind of PVC post in the front. I do. That is a garden trellis. So, you just put things up like this all the time. I mean, well, the garden trellis is within the

But you're not a professional gardener. You're just a home gardener. I mean, define professional garden. Someone who would be paid to do it. I mean, I pay myself with the food I eat. Okay. I think what he meant was you're not selling the produce. That is correct. I am not selling the produce. I do occasionally give it away though. Everybody's got too many zucchinis. Mr. Chair, I I do have one question if I may. Uh you'd mentioned there's animals. Is part of the reason that you need to plant this up front because the animals in the back would get to it. Correct. So, I have a dog and uh if I had put it in the backyard, dogs like to dig in soft dirt,

but that's the animal. Great. Got it. Okay. Any other questions or comments from the board? I do.

Um part of the agreement that when we always do these things, we have to get approvals or at least notify the neighboring community around you. What would they say? Uh I I they would say that I have knocked on every door. I submitted a list of my adjacent neighbors and then plus some uh for uh hearing notices to go out. I know of one neighbor that received that letter. I also did not receive a letter. Uh but I had invited other neighbors uh the people that are sitting behind me neighbors and they would say that they don't mind it that they like the look of it. uh every neighbor that I talked to said that they don't agree with uh having an issue with it. However, they are not here to speak for themselves. So, why would I say that they

just to be clear, we don't mail a notice to the applicant. In terms of the public hearing notice, you're notified by the coordinator when the meeting. I would say that I have email saying that we mail a notice of public hearing to you. Correct. That's not our practice. Okay. Just just so you know, I believe it came from. Okay, I'll double check. Thank you.

Okay, I contacted Mr. Kelly and asked and then I got a reply from who I believe was can't guarantee without looking at my phone saying that I should receive one within the letter to attend or email to attend meeting. to the applicant to you. Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that there was a difference in those two.

Yeah, there is. Just just to be clear, they're they're sent a notice of public hearing. It's sent via US Postal Service, which unfortunately we can't guarantee will be there within any amount of days. But then you're notified specifically via email of when the meeting is going to be held, the day, the time, and the location. And you should have received an email for that. I did not receive one until I reached out. Okay. Which was about 10 or 11 days ago. Okay. Generally, we don't we send them like the week before. Okay. All right. Kitty, I don't see that where um they were the neighborings were notified. It's on the back of the application application that has all the addresses of where they're sent to.

See over here on this side. There they are. They were mailed out on April the 17th. I guess the USPS code doesn't stand so much anymore. US what? USPS.

Okay. One more thing. The uh position of this is looks like it's been well built and well thought out by uh everyone concerned here. Uh and it's really not much different than the than the man who came by here for a variance to build a deck and a swimming pool in front of his garage door. So, uh his his idea here was to put it there and uh uh for his purpose and you know it it is well built. I think it looks nice. It's very nice. Okay. Thank you.

Let me ask a question. What's the difference between this one and the one that is up the street? There's a pagola up the street. There's a burglar like item. It's only smaller and made out of metal. It was clearly store bought instead of mine that was made. I do not comments from the audience. Can can you come up and say your name? Thank you.

Also, we need to confirm that these individuals were sworn in for what it's worth. Right. I don't think you were sworn in, right? Okay. We'll have to go back and swear you in. Raise your right hand. It's here somewhere. I've got it. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you will give at this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you. And then if you can just state your name and address. My name is Joanie Challenge. Thank you.

Sorry, I'm short. Um, there we go. Sorry. Um, it's my house. It's my yard and garden. I enjoyed that he built it for pretty flowers and to grow vegetables. We've gotten into growing the vegetables and another space that looks nice. And I've had no complaints from the neighbors. Lost compliments the garden. another added to make the house more us. Okay. Thank you, chairman, if I may. Yes. Go ahead, Tim. Okay. What was your reason for it being by the driveway? Why not in somewhere other place in the yard?

That when we talked about putting the garden beds there, I thought it was a nice idea. We couldn't expand the driveway. I wanted to make it usable and seemed like a nice place to put it. problems with it. And the one of the is just going to be for pretty flowers just for me to look at. That's the only reason we put it there. Use the space. Okay. You guys have said twice about you can't expand the driveway. Why can't you expand a driveway?

We have a light there, gas light. We have to cut it down to expand it. And that's just a lot more work to expand the driveway with concrete asphalt getting rid of the gas pole. Okay. For what it's worth, that might also require a separate variance depending on the size of the driveway and all that stuff. And that's more more permits, more actual physical labor. It might understand that the driveway can only be a certain amount be 20t wide. 20 feet width. Okay. Not necessarily. No.

Okay. Just so I was just confused about that because that's, you know, I have I have a double driveway, too, and you know, I put in a double drive. So, I just wanted to clarify that for you. Okay. Okay. Anybody else? She was sworn in. Yes. We just need her name and address.

My name is Ela Overheim. My address is 10219 Westwise Court, which is just four doors down from them. Um, I knew the previous owners and to be honest with you, they would absolutely love what they have done with that yard. Uh, also I watched it be built. They took a lot of time. There was a lot of effort that went into building it. They, uh, they've done a lot of gardening. I get to be one of the recipients when they give away some of that free vegetables. Um, most of the neighbors actually actually really love it. And there are other structures within Overland that should just be an encroachment. There are others. There's one that sits on the corner of Lackland in Sims. A great big chair. I guess that's how you say it. Great big blue green chair that's bolted to the ground. I don't think that's 30 feet from the street, but I don't care. It's their yard. It's how they want their yard. That's how it should be. But there are other people that have other structures in their front yard that are just as close, if not closer, than this is. So, I think that needs to be taken into consideration. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. I will now entertain a motion to approve a variance from section 400.180.4A 4 a front yard setback to allow a 30-foot encroachment of 19 ft by 8 in pergola into the front yard setback as presented within the applicant's plan and due to the practical difficulties as demonstrated by the applicant. Chairman, just to be clear, we'll write that variance for a pergola 19 ft by 8 feet within the 30 foot setback was a little backwards the way that it was in your your sheet there, but just so you are clear how we'll write that ordinance.

Okay. Excuse me. Variance. I'll put a note on that. I'll make that motion, your honor. Okay, Jay, do I have a second? Second it. John pull the vote. Jones no. Fetch yes. Seal yes.

Annel Connell is a yes. It's been denied. You have to have four votes. Now I believe you have the option we had talked about before since we only have four here that he can come back and bring it back to us. No. No. Okay. Give it to I sorry. Okay. And how does that is there an appeal process since there is only four and that would take a full house?

Uh the appeal process would be to go to circuit court. Um, obviously, you know, you can do that. And, um, I'm trying to think of how we would go about that, but generally speaking, because there's only four, we typically have five. We've had issues with getting a full boat. Um, but because there was only four today, um, that's all I could hear the case. So,

okay. So, uh, just to be clear, my option is either take it down or appeal for circuit court. Okay. And I do that where or how. So we can send you absolutely but we can the appellet courts in St. Louis County. We can tell you that. Right. Okay. Well, thank you for your time. Thank you. Okay. Need a motion to adjurnn.

Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second. Right. All in favor? I We're adjourned.

Thank you, gentlemen. CJ. Yeah. J.