City Council - Regular Meeting

We're just doing good to go. All right, like to welcome everyone here this afternoon and we'll start this city council work meeting. First item is item 2.1 impact fees. Yes, please. He was here was discussing it the last time he was here. The old center building uh that's not existing. Um but he's since saying uh provided some updates and at your request he's he's going to be presenting on one of your requests specifically regarding helping to others single family home and so without further ad thank you. I thought I'd uh revisit uh some of the baseline um elements relative to an impact fee facilities plan and impact fee analysis uh as as a way of a reminder what we're doing here with this project. Um the impact fee facilities plan is the planning document that identifies uh levels of service and future facilities that go into the calculation of the fee as well as other requirements defined in statute. And the impact fee analysis brings that information together and calculates a fee uh as well as a fee schedule and formula for the calculation of impact fee assessment. As a reminder, the impact fee is a onetime fee on new development activities. So, this is not a fee we charge to existing development or existing residents. It's for all new uh new construction within the within the city uh both residential and

non-residential. and it's a one-time payment uh that is assessed to new development activity. There's a specific process defined in statute relative to establishing or um amending impact fees. Um that includes notice of intent and then going through the analysis [clears throat] itself and then we present information in work sessions and refine that analysis and then we're prepared for public hearing. Uh there's noticing requirements that the city will need to fulfill relative to noticing uh the public hearing noticing and then once that's completed you're able to hold the public hearing at which point you can adopt, modify or reject the impact. What we propose in the documents is a maximum allowable impact fee. We're essentially creating a ceiling for the impact fees. Uh uh the council can adopt something lower than that or fees altogether. Um recognizing that there are trade-offs relative to that that that approach.

Does that bring back fee public hearing have to be its own public hearing or can you do it as part of your month? It has uh that's probably a question for um it has to be it. Yeah, technically we have a separate impact fee public hearing that is specific to to the impact fee itself. So, and the noticing is specific to that as well that we have to notice for an impact fee public hearing and then hold that public hearing. Now, they can be on the same night. Uh you could just start one public hearing and and and end the other. But thanks.

Uh some entities also choose to hold a public hearing and then wait to make a decision. So they hold the public hearing and then uh make a decision on a future council meeting. But uh we have to hold this public hearing and and receive public comment on the the documents and the All righty. So um at a high level every impact fee needs to include these six steps that feed into that uh sixth step which is the impact fee analysis or proportionate share analysis. These are the uh steps that we've evaluated for each service that we've looked at. Uh we have to determine demand. Look at existing facilities. Establish an existing and future level of service. Uh identify existing and future capital facilities necessary to serve development. And then uh we need to look at the revenue resources necessary to finance those system improvements or that have been used to finance those system improvements. um that in could include outside funding sources or it can include bonding. Um we need to evaluate those components and then again all of that feeds into the proportion of share analysis which is a cost allocation. Um we're taking those variables and applying a cost uh ratio to that and applying that to new new development activity. The services that we've looked at include parks and recreation, public safety, uh the police and fire, transportation, culinary water, waste water, and storm water. Uh I'm going to summarize the elements that have included that we've included in the uh calculation for those six steps. Uh recognizing that the actual document is is quite a bit thicker, right, when we um go to publish this information. But this gives you an idea of the big picture relative to the analysis. So we've broken out the analysis into a citywide service area and a southwest annexation service area. And there were different components in

some cases relative to those service areas. Uh as we looked at the services that were provided to the city proper in the southwest annexation area. The demand analysis is specific to each service. So, we'll look at um acreage, land acreage, uh erus or equivalent residential units. We'll look at calls for service for public safety with trips and population data and bring all that together to establish demand assumptions relative to existing development and future development. The level of service is also specific to each service uh and expressed in a uh per unit measurement. So when we're looking at water wastewater, it's uh water utilization or production of uh effluent. We'll look at costs for service per land use type for public safety. We'll look at uh per um level of investment per capita. So for each service, we take that demand variable and look at the services that are provided to calculate a level of service for that specific service the city provides. uh within the impact fee analysis, we can include uh what's called a buyin component. Um essentially what we're doing is we're taking your existing infrastructure and saying uh where that provides a benefit to new development, they can pay your existing rateayers or taxpayers back for any oversizing of that uh infrastructure. Uh when we've looked at each of the services, we've included a buyin for transportation, water uh for source and distribution. Wastewater, we're including it for treatment and collection and on the storm water system. Uh the other services, we've adopted an approach where we're assuming they're at capacity and we're looking at future facilities only in the calculation of the fee. Uh with regards to the future facilities, I've highlighted that for

each service for parks, we're looking at 25.6 million in future investment. The methodology utilized for this fee creates quite a bit of flexibility as it relates to the expenditure of impact fees. Um we're not uh limiting ourselves to necessarily park land uh assemblage or only amenities, but it's expansion to your system, to your park system. Uh for police, we're looking at 2.8 million for improvement and financing costs. For fire, four and a half million plus 700,000 in apparatus expense in included in the in the fee calculation. for transportation. Uh there was a a separate IFFFP impact fee facilities plan um uh drafted by Wall Consulting Group where they calculated the necessary improvements for um future road costs included in the IF uh IFFFP. That's uh that sums to 3.5 million. I'll also point out in each of these when we're look when we're talking about the impact fee facilities plan, we're focused on a 10-year planning window for the purposes of calculating fee. So, there's likely going to be more costs than this um beyond that 10-year planning horizon, but we have to isolate that uh by standard of practice to a shorter planning window. And that's really tied. Yes. Since all of these are estimates, if we didn't spend this much,

a homeowner asked for a clawback on their fee that they were charged. Yes. So, if uh there there's uh within the statute, there's language that allows a an impact fee pay to to request a review or challenge the payment of impact fees and receive potentially a credit or reimbursement of those fees if there was something done incorrectly or if those assumptions weren't inaccurate. So, um we don't spend it in time. Yes. Yeah. So, that's where I was going to highlight that six years spend.

Six year. Yes. So the yeah you have six years you can spend your funds from the day you collect those uh those funds. And so the 10-year window comes from a a again a standard of practice where we assume because of that rolling window rather than isolating it only to six years assuming that the document may last a couple of years that you have um uh again a 10-year window potentially to evaluate the collection and expenditure of those funds. But most entities will like will typically update those documents within a three-year window, three to five years at at kind of the the outset of that uh planning horizon. Some will amend them uh every year based on changes and assumptions and we won't do a full revision of that study. We may amend components of the studies. So for example uh if costs are less than what are projected we could amend the document show those changes in cost but change nothing else to say instead of 25 well uh on the police side instead of 2.8 million maybe it was 2 million we would revise the document and and fix that moving forward. What I see more often is the costs that are included in the analysis are actually low compared to inflationary pressure and entities will come back and amend those uh assumptions and we'll see the impact fee tick up as a result of that increased cost. If you charge me X, I don't go up if you went up.

No, but if you charge me Y and it goes down, you owe me a refund. So we we want these to be as accurate as possible. Yep. So it's Yeah. You can't claw back for underolction. Yeah. The developer can claw back for over collection on your part or if you don't spend the funds at all. So, if you if you hit your six-year expenditure window and you haven't expended those funds, then uh you'll uh most likely have to reimburse those funds. Have you ever had any problem with not spending the funds? Not that I know of, but um I have had communities that have had that problem. we have some southwest annexation problem. What's the plus 2.2?

So that that in that instance um that uh fee is in addition the annex annexation area fee is on top of the city proper fee whereas in the wastewater they are calculated independently. So we're not adding those together. Wasn't that held up by the road then infrastructure we don't control and or public utilities and acquisition and agreements.

Yeah, there can be several variables that influence the timing of infrastructure. Uh other impacts can be general fund allocation. So if you know we're identifying the growth related portion of a project and there may be general fund matching funds or other entity matching funds and if those get there's jeep those funds uh become a jeopardy then um that could that could change the nature of spending. So uh those are all variables that uh we should watch the city should watch and and those could be reasons why we amend the study at a future point. Again, an amendment can be um in some cases quicker and easier to do if we're just changing specific assumptions rather than a wholesale update. So, something to pay attention to. Um on the uh water wastewater side, there's quite a bit of future investment needed as we look at uh capital facility needs. uh storm water. We're seeing about 870,000 in the city service area and 1.7 million in the annexation area. Uh those uh big dollar amounts for the water and wastewater you're going to see are are going to result in some bigger changes to the impact fees on that side of the equation. Um I'm going to show you again what uh what you or how you compare to other communities when we look at uh all of the fees together. So I do have a slide of that which is uh what was requested in our previous meeting. All righty. So here is the uh summary of the single family um residential impact fee uh proposed uh within the document. So this would be the again the maximum that that could be implemented uh barring any changes or modifications to assumptions uh within the document.

Um, so you can see parks and recreation a a large increase there. Um, 178% increase going from almost $3,000 up to 8,000, a little over 8,000. This is primarily driven by the cost of land, the assumptions associated with land value within the city. uh the police and fire it's a large percentage increase but relatively speaking these the public safety impact fees are typically the lowest fees on a dollar basis. So when you see a large percentage increase, this is not the primary driver for the overall increase in the impact fees that you would experience or single family residential unit would experience. The storm water um in in this case it's on a I'm showing a per acre so we can make some comparisons to your prior fee. Um but you would assess that based on a a typical residential uh single family residential lot which may be 0.2 two if that anymore 2 acres potentially. Um uh so that that would this just shows you what the the fee is per acre for um wastewater. Um here you see it per equivalent residential unit. So this would be what would be assessed typically to a residential single family residential. Um uh so here you can see the city area is experiencing a a very large increase because um in your prior study there wasn't a lot of infrastructure associated with the uh city service area whereas now we are seeing infrastructure necessary uh for the wastewater system.

Um whereas the annexation area we're not actually seeing that big of a difference in the fee proposed for that area. It's about 21

on the water side here. There's a a big jump. Um again, similar to wastewater where the city proper area is experiencing a a bigger jump than the annexation area, but both seeing a an increase there. Uh on the water supply side, this was calculated independent of the um source storage and distribution component of a water fee. That's saying about a 4% increase. And then transportation going from 49 up to $1,296 for a single family. So, uh, again, here you can see some big percentages and some big dollar amounts relative to the pro proposed impact fees. Um, can you can can you show us a total on a house that's not in the annex area? What do they pay?

Yes, that's that's going to be on this. It's going to come. I'll wait. Thank you. So, it's about um Yes. Uh when you look at your existing fee here, you're at about $12,000 for a single family residential based on a2acre lot. That's what we charging now or that's okay. Yes. And what is all what happens with all those other charges if we beat up about $35,000?

Well, it's a 180% increase 190% increase across the board uh for each either service area. Wait, clarify for me. That's based on the size of the lot or the size of the house or just that's a single family residential typ the flat fee. Depending on your service area, there actually isn't a a huge difference in the service area because in one case the water fee is a little bit higher and then in the the annexation area that flops. The the water fee goes down but the sewer impact fee. So if you're in an R8 you'd pay 30. If you're in an R12 would you pay more?

Flat fee. Uh well it would depend on your lot size. So that's assuming sorry that that's a twoacre lot that I made that assumption for this. If you're on a halfacre you're going to pay near double that. You're going to well no sorry it's just for the storm that you're assessed. Everything else it's per ERU which is standard.

Uh the storm water is the only one that adjusts. So you wouldn't see a huge swing. If you went from a 2 acre lot to an a halfacre lot, that may add $500 or, you know, on top of that fee just with that storm water feet shifting. But overall, on average, assuming a 2acre lot, they're going to go from 12 to 13,000 up to $35,000 for an impact fee assessment. Again, that's a one-time fee on new development activity, but it's a it's a hefty increase. And these are surrounding cities. Is that what

Yeah. So this chart shows uh Utah County communities. Um Whoops. We uh requested information from the homebuilders association because they'll provide um charts relative to comparable communities that they uh deliver to their members. And so we wanted to be consistent with that data that they utilize. Um we spot checked some of that information. And while there are nuances associated with the data, it appeared to be uh roughly accurate as we looked at all these communities. So, um the average if I include your proposed maximum. So, that's taking removing your $12,000 fee and putting in the $35,000 that shifts the average up a little bit. But your average for these uh comparable communities in Utah County is about $20,000. Uh so you can see some are higher than that average, some lower. Salem has the highest fee within Utah County and your proposed would be higher than Salem's maximum uh based on that schedule. So you you do push uh that proposed maximum pushes forum at the at the highest fee within the county.

If I can if I can, it's important to note too that these aren't their maximum allowables. we're talking they're currently charging. We're talking about our maximum allowable compared against their existing which are probably probably artificially low

there. There could be that. So just the fact that some communities will adopt a fee that's lower than the maximum. Um it also does not reflect uh present uh cost, right? So, some of these communities may have updated their fees in 2018 just like your last study was completed and it would reflect 2018 or 2018 assumptions. Um, I think uh Sarah or Eagle Mountain they do update theirs uh they have updated theirs since 2018. Um, and they are updating their impact fees now. So what is shown here would be again what they're currently assessing, but I know their fees are going to go up. So they're working on the transportation right now as well as water and wastewater and those fees are likely to go up. So again, we're comparing, as Chris said, we're comparing your most up-to-date information to other communities current information or or adopted information, but it may be based on old studies. It's It's not going to be an apples to apples comparison.

Do you have any idea what for example in this chart you show Highland um 24,000 or something? Yes. Yep. So they're they're probably 22 22,000. I've heard people complainingly about Highland and when they're trying to build a house out the numbers they're throwing at them like 35,000 fees.

There other things that connection is included in that. So this is the homebuilders will show in their chart. They also include connection fees, but I excluded those because that really doesn't have anything to do with the impact fee comparison or the the impact fee level of service. So this is impact fees only including Tempenogga Special Service District for example. That's a city wouldn't necessarily have that impact fee under their umbrella, but it is an impact fee that's assessed for a service that you currently provide as a municipal providing wastewater whereas a district is providing that in that case. So I did keep that out of the comparison that was provided but I did not include the connection fees which would

could be a fair amount. Yes. forward. Yeah, eventually build the house.

And um yeah, Highland's impact fees have been updated since 2018. I believe their last update was 202, but it's not 2025 assumptions. Um so again, another example of we're comparing the most up-to-date information to whatever is available relative to other communities. With that said, um often developers will look at this comparison and it does provide an economic comparison relative to ORM and other communities. Um but again, this document is intended to provide the maximum allowable impact fee and then you as a legislative body uh have the challenge of determining where you want to land relative to that maximum allowable impact fee. Do you know how much below the max percentage-wise we did when we did this in 18? I don't.

The other thing that's significant a piece of the puzzle I think is I mean if we're really trying to incentivize or deincentivize people to build homes um when you look at Salem for example, so their impact fees are high, you know, on this chart, but then their land costs are quite a bit lower than they are here. So the net net is still less than it would be to build an or could be when you look at uh land availability and [snorts] the supply and demand of that that equation and how it impacts your land cost

and I think technically we don't want to really incentivize or deincentivize. We just want to be neutral in the market, right? Um yeah, I mean that there are a lot of variables in that in that question because uh on one side you're talking about market factors um growth and economic development potentially versus what the impact fee represents which is a cost recovery or cost recruitment of needed infrastructure. So the impact fee is intended to say what do we need to build as a community relative to infrastructure and who are we going to make money for that and this by maximizing impact fees communities are saying we're going to put as much of that burden on new development activity versus allowing the general fund or some other mechanism to cover that. We we also we also have a different level of service and I would argue often a better level of service than average. We have we have a better wastewater treatment plan. We probably have again compared to average more parks acreage per capita. So I mean uses the term need. it need compared to our level of service and forms level service is that we've established over decades.

Yes, a great point. You maybe help us see and maybe you'll get to this, but when you talk about this is the max amount of we're we're allowed allowable to charge, how does a city make a determination of okay, we're going to charge less and this is why like what logic would you use to make that decision?

Yeah, that is the million-dollar question. Uh there really isn't an answer for that because it is uh really uh taking all of those variables and saying what is most important for us as a legislative body recognizing the trade-offs. If we don't assess the maximum allowable impact fee, uh something has to happen. and either our level of service drops because we're not collecting impact fees uh impact fees to to cover that cost or we say no, we're we're going to use other funding mechanisms to help bridge that gap. So, we'll keep our level of service, but we're just not going to use impact fees as the funding mechanism, which is what you've done in the past, right? So you uh you've had a proposed impact fee, you adopted something lower than that maximum, and so you use other funding to to help um maintain a level of service for the community. And that that can work especially with a community like ORM where you have you're primarily built out other than again the annexation area. you're going to have some big needs there and you have redevelop redevelopment potential, but it it's not like um Eagle Mountain, for example, where it's really the wild wild west when it comes to development and the amount of population that they're adding every year and residential units. It's just a completely different scenario, right? So, um, it's understanding those variables and and who you are as a community. That's really what's going to help influence what you choose to adopt. Again, this is the maximum, so you can't go above it, but you really [clears throat] have from zero to the maximum as an option relative to the impact fee.

How does this affect revitalization as far as if you're going in and you're just completely olding, remodeling a house versus a house? So you want to make sure we're evaluating any development activity from the perspective of increased demand. Are you adding demand on the system or are we just replacing existing demand? If we're replacing existing demand, that would most likely not be impact fee eligible. If you're adding demand, let's say we're taking something there and we're changing its nature such that it goes from 100 ERUS to 200 ERUS. The difference between that is the impact fee eligibility. That 100 ERU count would what is what would considered impact fee eligible but not the base 100 ERUS. Okay.

If I were looking at this again, this is now um I'm stepping away from the IFFFP and IFA relative to um the question on recommendation. That's that's partly why I included that average. that may provide you some insight on a bell weather essentially or or an element that you would want to look at. Again, right now you're well below the average on your existing allocation, whereas our proposed is well above the average. So looking at that average may help you determine where you want to land. Do we want to above that average? Do we want to hit the average? Are we comfortable being below average relative to impact fees? And that that question should all be evaluated within the lens of again this is intended to collect revenue to pay for infrastructure for all of those services that we're looking at. So it's it's not um it's not for operations, it's not for a deficiencies within the system. It's saying new development is going to help us build infrastructure through the assessment of this impact fee and that's why we collect it. I did want to provide for one other piece. Yeah.

A couple of comments too. Um [snorts] one I think the average shows that it is common for cities to do less than their maximum allowed. And then two another strategy could be to phase over time as well. So rather than so we probably want to not get caught in this position again in the future. So we could essentially say in year one we get uh average just below average but then over the next five and six years we should do incremental increases from there stay more up to date.

So we're not limited to do this every five or seven years whatever we can do it annually. Yeah. And then it stays up to more current pricing. That makes sense. What you determine that a percentage or some fee? Yeah. We could just I mean, we could do straight line increase or or we wouldn't have need a new study if this year we accept 60% of the max. Next year could do 65 and the next year 70 and you wouldn't need to do a new study and you'd be pretty safe you're below it. That's right. But we are in an unusual time and that the last five or six years have been super high inflation. Correct.

And so that's part of what's causing this whole spike. Whereas long-term normalized inflation, it wouldn't be like this. And so we can use that as something of a of a gauge as well, right? CPI or something. Yes.

Yes. And and that's a great point of establishing a a schedule that phases in the impact fee. Um again, you could determine what that looks like for community. We'll just want to again make sure that uh if we're utilizing this document as the justification for a five-year plan in year three it the assumptions may get stale for example and and you may say hey we're we're going to revisit some of those assumptions and amend it while addressing that phased in schedule. So we're not necessarily tying your hands either. This would this would be a proposed schedule for the adoption of impact fees, but you can amend that moving forward or make it changes as those impact the city and that could change that that schedule. And I think it's also important to note that in 2018 we adopted less than what we could have and in seven years we never hit the top end of it for any of our impact fees is my understanding. Maybe Brandon can correct me if I'm wrong in that statement, but I don't think we ever charged the maximum allowable for 2018.

Changed it since the study. And where did we come in at? Was it like 80% 80%. It's never reached 100%. It's largely based off of we we established that cost of land as less than the market. That has a big impact. But then that's also why see such a dramatic increase in parks for example today it costs us we know it cost us at least 600 to 650,000 per acre. Yes. And we assumed 575 for the study. So we've already behind 2018 I think it was 175.

That's huge difference. Um yeah, so all of those elements um can be considered relative the adoption of the fee. Again, we we're setting that ceiling. That's the most important thing to remember there relative to the proposed schedule. I did want to point out um the there was a request also to look at just inflationary pressure from 2018 to now. So I pulled some indices relative to that. that. So your municipal cost index, this is total change, so it's not annualized. Um really we're setting about a 30 35% change just from the cost index approach. We're just saying inflationary pressure and um that takes out some some big years prior to that, but also includes some uh high inflationary years. Um, I did want to also compare that though to the national price index when it comes to the home price uh for all transactions in Utah. Uh, that's actually seen an 88% jump. So, what this shows to me is inflation has impacted development um, internally for the city as well as externally from the development community. But the price of a home is is outpaced that. So essentially what the what the home buyer is paying for that product has gone up more rapidly than just construction inflation. So um there is often an association with impact fees and affordability. And while that is true that uh impact fees o uh will impact the overall price of a home, [snorts] there are other variables that that impact the the uh the price of a a home that gets sold. Uh again, going back to supply and demand, for example,

uh and appreciation of property. Uh so that delta there um c can be telling relative to construction cost versus the actual selling price or um price index relative to to Utah. Um I also pulled another indicy here for the uh producer price index but it's showing a similar 30. So really that that uh kind of gives me some comfort relative to these indices showing that general inflationary pressure that communities have experienced. With that said, this is national indices um other than this the um that uh HPI index is specific to Utah. It is a national uh database um through the US federal housing um finance agency. Um but it's specific to Utah transactions. Um uh but the other indices are are more national. There are uh other variables that that may influence construction costs that are that are much higher than than these indices like uh concrete for example um or or uh roadbase or something like that. you know those those prices may be quite a bit higher than this when you look at a specific component of this indicy but generally speaking this this was uh what the data is suggesting relative to general inflation. Uh so that that was also requested to see what that looks like. So um again at a minimum that that uh 3 33 the 34% increase would just cover inflationary pressure not to mention level of service changes and the the actual nature of infrastructure that you need for ORM city. Um that would be over and above just inflationary pressure relative to what was presented in 2018.

All righty. Uh that's uh covers what I wanted to present. Um, so, uh, happy to address additional questions, go into more detail if you have specific, uh, areas that you want me kind of dive into more specifically. Okay. So, just because I'm stupid, I guess, what um, single family home talking about, uh, what about town homes? What about highdensity housing? Are those different indices?

Yes. Yep. So, they would have a different fee based on uh, the report formula. Typically, your sing your your highdensity housing is going to be less per unit. So, you'd likely experience the same uh percentage increases. So, they're going to have an increase to their fee. Um but uh it wouldn't it's not the same, you know, $34,000 that I'm showing for a single family residential. They typically pay less per unit. Do they have less of an impact on all those services?

Yes. So, usually their demand per unit is less. the population per unit is less, the trip count per unit is less. So all of those demand variables are less per unit, but when you look at the total development, there's quite a bit more units. Uh so their overall fee is, you know, going to be much larger than just a single family home, but we have so many more units going into that space. We ever use this to incentivize the building of a particular housing product? Uh any sort of adjustment owner occupied?

Yeah. So we don't deal with that sort of policy decision in the fee calculation. The impact fee needs to be proportionate relative to the demand. So you can't make adjustments within the fee study. With that said, I do know communities look at providing incentives for specific types of developments which may include the waving of impact fees. Um but there are specific cost benefit studies that have to be done to show that that why would you be you know why would you be doing that sort of incentivization policy. Um in addition I've seen um impact fees be evaluated from a RDA perspective your redevelopment authority and saying you know how might we uh incentivize development and utilize tax increment funding to help mitigate infrastructure impacts. The the key there is again if you if you reduce an impact fee or eliminate an impact fee, the cost doesn't go away. The infrastructure cost doesn't go away. You're just now um diverting that cost somewhere else. We're saying, "Okay, maybe the CRA or the RDA is going to cover that cost or or help defay that cost or the general fund is going to help pick up that that cost and and through that cost benefit that may be justified, but um it doesn't go away under that. Mayor, about a year ago, the council did pass a resolution giving a break on impact fees to affordable senior housing or the and and that's actually can be included in your statute. So, the impact fee act uh based on Utah state code does allow for consideration of adjustments to impact fees based on affordable housing

and that was in uh the 2018 ordinance that the council passed. So pursuant to that, this council is part of a moderate income housing plan strategy. Take that break. So that's one of our strategies that we would deal with affordable senior housing project came in. We would give them a break to encourage that type of housing use. Right.

So my question is more related to the um because in order to so how do I say this? If you want to have um multi-unit buildings, housing buildings that have units that are purchasable owner occupied, they have to be built as particular way to qualify for um loans, right? Certain FHA loans. So, they have to be built a certain way. So, can we and maybe this is a Steve question. Can we use this to encourage a particular type of housing?

I think to kind of echo what Fred has said, I think the impact fees that you charge typically have to be based on what the actual impact those types of housing have on services or on parks, police, roads, whatever it is. So, if you could do a study that showed a demonstrable difference in those, then potentially you could use those. I think you'd have to be able to show that they did have a different impact. Did we do that for the seniors or did we just say did we go through the thought process that they're making less trips? They're using the facilities less or we

basically the the state was giving us options of things and that how we met one of the requirements back the state's recommendations. It was just a check box on that form, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like a year ago.

Yeah. There was a I I was working with South Jordan on an impact fee and we received a request for a review similar to this where uh 55 plus community was building quite a few units and they wanted a a review of the impact fee suggesting they were suggesting that they had less of an impact. So, it wasn't an affordability question, but they, as Steve indicated, provided data that said, "We we feel we have less impact than than what the fee schedule suggests." And the argument could be we have a facility here with a park and a tennis court, so we're not using the public parks or whatever. Right. Exactly. Or lower household sizes on average.

And so, the senior housing could be less trips per day. So, less on the transportation.

So, they provided all that information. the city considered that and made an adjustment downward. So your your impact fee ordinance and the and the report itself will can also include a formula for the calculation of of a fee to address those issues on both sides of the coin, right? Uh lower impact, we could make an adjustment downward or if you see a high use uh uh come in and you say, "Hey, this this is really just not contemplated in our schedule, but here's the formula that would produce this fee. Now let's have a discussion. Right? So there is within your ordinance a way to have that back and forth dialogue between the developer to come to aortionate feed that

to all impact fees that it has to be roughly proportionate demand that is by that developer. Does that have to be specific to line by statute? Those those scenarios you have is that a negotiable thing? you have within your ordinance language that allows for the consideration of additional information typically by the developer. They'll want to present that information to show that reduction, but um you show that that impact. Also sometimes developers if they're developing enough a piece of land they can offer to put in

yes infrastructure in lie of the impact fee thinking that they can save a few dollars they still have to do it to our standards and double check it's another path and in that instance they're usually incentivized to maximize the fee especially if they build something that is oversized. So, let's say their impact fee is $2 million, but they've built infrastructure to $10 million. They'll want to get through a a reimbursement agreement that payment back. And so, in that instance, they want to ensure that the fee is calculated to its maximum level so they get all that money back. But that is definitely a way that they can uh also pay for infrastructure.

One of the just for future references. On this chart, uh we're showing the average as a baseline, but I really think the median would be more accurate because you've got Yes. variables in there. And I think the median would actually bring it down.

Um so with regards to next steps, uh again, this is all still draft form. Uh we do have a draft document that we've provided to staff. Um and um we feel like it's at a point where we can move forward, but we we still have the ability to modify that as needed. Um so we'll distribute that again uh one more time to staff uh for final review. Um and then we move towards the uh public hearing process which I believe is scheduled for December 9th. Um so if we maintain that date then we will help you prepare for that date by providing the appropriate noticing requirements. Uh it's it's been simplified over the years but we t we we need a 10-day notice window where we have to have all the information made available to the public um and certain requirements. And then um if you choose to hold a public hearing on December 9th, then uh I'll make a similar presentation. Uh you receive public comment and then you have the um decision to again adopt, modify or reject the proposed fees based on the documents that are published.

That wouldn't happen till next year then, right?

Yeah. So if you adopt um any increase, there's a 90-day wait period. The statute actually indicates that if there's a change to your fee, there's a 90-day wait period. But by practice, we assume that's for any increase. If there's a decrease to a fee, then we say just adopt it immediately because if you don't, they'll hand you this document and say, I want a little fee, you know. So, saves you the headache of doing that. Adopt uh any decrease to a fee is effective immediately. Any increases in 90day, which will put you into the next uh the next calendar. Are you saying at the next meeting though we would you would have a proposal or we just what are we throwing out to the public at the next meeting?

It would be uh the proposed maximum. So this document as presented those fee levels. Um again we don't uh as the third party we don't propose a fee if if you're wanting to adopt something lower than that. We just provide the information but that is what we would present at a public hearing. Um again, unless you wanted to uh go a different route, um some maybe some continued discussion relative to recommendations that would likely need to come with collaboration with staff on where that might land. But um the public hearing is intended to present the the maximum uh impact fee, the allowable impact fee, and receive public public comment after which you take action on that as a council. Well, we could either vote that night to adopt impact fees or we could say we want to discuss this and do impact fees in a future date.

I mean, we we'd need Steve to just verify that, but I've seen entities do that where they say, "Hey, we're going to hold a public hearing, fulfill the requirement of statute, but not make a decision that evening and postpone that decision to a future point." I I think you would maybe run into some perception issues if we sat on that decision for a long period of time. Um it it could create some challenges from a development perspective. That's what I'm trying to say. That's what next is if if we want to do that in the next meeting. It seems to me like you should be pretty darn ready to vote if you're going to present.

So you can only present the max allowable if you correct. Um, so again, my job is to present the maximum allowable, but yeah, I guess from your perspective, if you're saying, hey, we we want to we want to have our recommendation ready at the night of the public hearing, that may influence the December 9th deadline. If we wanted to say, you know, we want to be 15% above the average, will you put forth a new force and present that to us? Yes, that would be maybe challenging on the fly, right? If we we knew that in advance. We want you to know that in advance. Yes, we could do that. I don't want to put you in that position. Yes.

Wanted to look at doing the grade the graded, you know, so much this year that if we were leading that way. Yeah. Yeah. We could give you some advanced notice. Yes. We could have that that type of schedule prepared where we say, "Hey, based on that, here's what it looks like." Um, if I had a spreadsheet, my spreadsheet open, I could do that on the fly, but I often don't put those up in a public hearing. Good to legislate in a public hearing.

One other possibility, too, is before you have this public hearing where Fred presents the potential maximums, you could have, for example, another work session. You discuss, you already know what the maximum allowables are. you could have a work session to kind of talk about where do we want to land ultimately and so then if you wanted to adopt something at the same time you'd kind of know where you stand and do it all at the same time and not have to continue it drag it out.

Yeah. one recommendation um and I was thinking this before I came to this meeting the challenge we have right relative to the proposed fee if we go back to one of the slides probably talked about buyin buy in fee that's a repayment of a cost you've already so entities will pull that component out of the fee say well we're not going to reimburse ourselves for dollars we've spent um we're going to keep that off the table and that pulls the impact fee down. I don't know to what magnitude that would pull the impact fee down, but that's a comparison I could make and say if we pull that out, here's what it looks like. The downside of that is that's the easiest component of your fee to spend because you've already spent it is paying yourself back. So um that that creates some expenditure challenges because now your fee is 100% focused on future infrastructure and if that changes you've increased your risk uh relative to the fee. Now you already in reality have that risk because we're not reducing under that scenario we're not reducing uh or the the max proposed we're not reducing the future component of your fee. So that risk exists, but you lose that cushion essentially in the fee through that the the removal of that buyin calculation.

Yeah. So just to follow up on the the comment I had before, one other potential advantage if you had kind of a say a work session to talk about where you might want to land, another advantage of that is when you have the public hearing, then the people who are there to to hear it and to potentially comment, they're not just considering what the maximums are. They're not just commenting maybe freaking out a little bit over what the maximums are, but they're actually able to comment on what you're actually the level you're actually thinking of. You can have a discussion about that. You know, whether that, you know, that could be adjusted up or down obviously too based on what kind of feedback you might get.

I mean, that makes the most sense to me. Um and then there is kind of another issue I think and that is so we're talking about the impact fees that we want to raise but we've just had an election and people in this election ran on the the children and grandchildren of everyone in Orman be able to afford to live here and so this would affect that directly. So it would make sense to have those people in this conversation I think. German is saying often I like to see different scenarios myself. I mean, right now you've said this, right? But

also the vibe I'm getting, I think that no matter what, we can still be better than Provo. [laughter] There's always zero win on that. I mean, I think I think if you land in the medium, you know, you're going to be in a pretty good spot and and you could arguably be more than the medium because of the extra services that provides. But I think if you go to the you know, top wind towers over on the right, [snorts] you're going to have a problem. I mean, we just recently approved like a 100 homes, right? So then does that make them unaffordable? Um, yeah, they they wouldn't they wouldn't have to pay this fee, but they there could be Yeah, this is only for future. Well,

at what point? What's future? Yeah, I think that typically gets assessed at the time of a somebody pulls a building permit. So you've got a subdivision for example what you're being talked about. I don't know that they've pulled any building ordinance for that yet. That's 100 homes, right? We 100 coming. Yeah. Which, you know, tried to provide and now we're like, h are we making that unaffordable, you know, and typically they don't pull 100 build permits all at the same time, right? that goes in.

Well, and we're we're talking about maybe two different levers that can get pushed or pulled relative to affordability. An impact fee, you're definitely pushing or pulling that relative to um potentially the cost of a home. But I mean if if you separate that really it's supply and demand that influences almost sell for example right now um perception is the market is cooling and um uh high value homes are having a little bit harder time moving getting off of the MLS. Um, if you raised your impact fees under that type of environment, it would be unlikely that you could then turn around and see a corresponding increase to the price of a home. We raised the the impact fees by 20,000. Could a developer turn around and raise the price of a home by $20,000 to recoup that change? Again, I don't know the answer to that, but depending on the market, that could that answer could be no. They could not do that. So your price would actually remain the same regardless of the change in an impact fee. But what is affected under that scenario? Profitability. So that profit margin now is impacted, which creates its own challenges uh relative to whatever perspective you're you're looking at. Um in other markets, they could potentially raise the they say, "Hey, we we've got a $20,000 increase to uh impact fees. We could obviously price of a home more than that. You know, it could go up more than 20,000.

But isn't this why you're required to wait 90 days from the form?

Yeah, that that's really more to help with [clears throat] I think the developer proforma not necessarily address market fluctuations, but it does help in some regards relative to that. So, if I'm uh sitting on the envelope relative to, you know, pulling a building permit and I know, you know, every unit is now going to have a $20,000 increase, I better pull those now so that my profit margin isn't impacted in the short term. But that that covers you for 90 days. But anything beyond that, you know, you're going to you're going to have to absorb that. Either the market absorbs that through price increase or profit margins absorb that through reduction. had a huge change. So 2018 before the impact fees went into effect, huge amount of just prior to those impact fees.

Oh yes. Building permits getting pulled.

Yeah. Yep. And that's typical especially with if if this type of swing were adopted. Yeah. you want to capture your anybody who's sitting on the margins with that's that's a lot to risk. So I'll I'll work on and coordinate with you on scenarios um and timing. Um but we have all the information to do that to help with some additional scenario analysis. Um, what I've heard is potentially looking at removal of buyin and then looking at scenarios that may phase that in over time and what does that look like uh versus maybe just a percentage adoption saying if we adopted 80% what does that look like and so I can provide some some of those comparisons.

Thank you. Any other questions or requests of Fred or staff on this particular subject? Ju just a comment about Bren's comment. You charge 100% of the allowable and you'd still be better than Provo. They may be more expensive, but will still be better. [laughter] Just wanted to make that. Well, you are a trader, aren't you? Okay, appreciate it. Trader upgrade. Upgrade. [laughter] Trainer upgrade. That's what what every trainer says.

We're glad you're on our team. How about that? Okay. Let's go to item 2.2, general plan update, water and preservation elements minutes. Um,

hi. I'm just passing out the draft text. That's one thing. Sorry, man. stupid. Well, we'll just get the slides. What we have in front of you is a resolution for an update to our general plan. The general plan, the state legislature um some time ago adopted a new provision in our um the general plan provisions for state code requiring a water and preservation element. The water and preservation element uh is required to address certain topics. Those

topics are outlined in each section of this resolution. Planning Commission reviewed an initial draft of this back in August and put forward a recommendation of approval. It's been streamlined since then. But essentially, yes, Senate Bill 110 2022 and uh ES goals is to affect the permitted development of water on demand and infrastructure. So there's a land use connection here which is why it's part of the plan. Address methods for reducing water demand and per capita consumption for future development. Methods for reducing water demand and per capita consumption for existing development opportunities to modify operations to eliminate and reduce conditions that waste water and integration with land use planning and development aspects of the general plan evaluating water use and demand rather than assuming adequate water supply. Um these I'm going to skip back. Most of this resolution is drawn from our already adopted form water conservation plan which is also a requirement of state code that mandates that uh you have the water conservation plan. Um as the planning commission is required by the statute to provide recommendations. There are seven primary ones. Each one is identified in the general plan text with um data from our water conservation master plan support those policy goals. Also uh some potential recommendations

for uh possible future legislation but not committing the council to any particular action. Um because Reed Price is the primary lead on water conservation with the public works department. Um turn from the rest of the time. So as Matt mentioned uh the the general plan uh this this change to a general plan uh is just taking a broad overview of what has already been adopted in the water conservation plan. The water conservation plan was presented to the city council in October of 2022 where it was adopted. Um the uh elements of that broad elements of that water conservation plan have been incorporated into this uh general plan [clears throat] uh section. Um nothing uh in it should be uh surprising. Um and uh it it uh also establishes some general policies that help us to achieve uh the goals uh that have been uh that were identified in the uh water conservation plan. So, um, uh, the state just wants to be confident that communities are, uh, taking a broad look at water conservation and preservation, uh, so that their water sources will be, uh, will last well into the future.

Can I ask you a question about number four? Have we um so have we are there studies based on um contamination of our aquifers through weed killers. you know, we're doing away with the turf and we're adding places where we tend to use more Roundup, more of those types of chemicals that then, you know what I'm saying? I I'm concerned from a health standpoint, and that has been considered.

I'm I'm not aware of any studies that have done so. Um uh what is what is legally required is that that someone needs to follow what the label of the of the herbicide would be. Um but I I don't I don't know what the impacts would be on the aquifer. Um, and I don't know of any studies that uh that recommend uh prohibiting because having had um environmental factors that have affected my family personally, I think we need to start having those conversations um and affected our group here too.

So is you're what you're telling me then is that's a conversation with the legislature. Um, it's it's it's an action that uh the city council could uh look deeper into if it's if it so chooses as well. We can make a recommendation, you know, I mean, make some sort of recommendation that would go to the state. This is an important thing for our city. We'd like this looked at because we're seeing a lot. Yeah. Well, and our entire city drains into Utah Lake. So, I mean, that's where it goes.

Yeah. We and I just just to make you aware we do have uh we do have policies in place where we have uh protections set up in our wellhead areas. There are certain distances that we don't allow storm water um drainage and infiltration uh because we want to protect those areas that have been identified as prime areas that will be the first areas that the that any deep well would pull water out of. So, we have taken provisions to to prevent uh that when it comes to uh storm wateration within certain areas. I don't know how the rest of the council feels, but that's a conversation I'd like to have.

I'd like to bring some awareness to that. It's just happening too much. Mayor, if I may speak to that, the um the purpose of this document is to capture policy director from the council ultimately. And so if the council would like to study that issue in more depth, that certainly could [clears throat] be a policy goal or consideration implanted into this text that further look into that issue. I think it's an unintended consequence that we need to look up

this document you hand out the third whereas since a public hearing was was considering this was held either in 2020 2000 2025. I assume that meant 2025, but I don't see this on the public hearing for today. No, this is this that was a placeholder date and I didn't I So, some future date we will Yeah, when I first drafted this, I assumed we were on public hearing and I was incorrect when I drafted that. So, that should just be a blank for a future date. Thank you. We're not adopting this. No public hearing. This is aformational at this. Thank you. This has to be adopted by the end of the year. Yes, this does have to be adopted prior to December.

One more date. That's right. It It's going to be on the December meeting because state law requires us to adopt this by the end of the year. And can we put in what Len raised as a future goal? Yeah, sure. I'm not comfortable with that right now taking that um flip the strip thing. I don't think that the unintended consequences have been fully studied on that. It looks good. You know, it's the little virtue signaling thing, but do we know exactly what that is bringing to our city?

How how would we do that? What does a study look like or how how do we gather more information on something like that? Or is it just out there? Maybe somebody did it. I don't know. There's potential that it's out there. I haven't I haven't heard of it. So, it would take some research um and uh to to determine impacts to aquifers. We could we could certainly look into it. In the meantime, if if this is a concern, it's we should probably remove it from uh from the general from from this update that we're doing. We can always add it in later if we want to. Is this something that's required? There were there were certain elements.

No, number four, I believe, is what her This is uh yeah language in here. Number uh five very broad I don't know what that means. The actual state code reads the planning commission shall include a recommendation for landscape options in a public street for current and future development not require the use of lawn or a party strip. That's straight from state code. Now that's a recommendation, not an enacted order. Oh, it is a recommendation.

I should include a recommendation in [clears throat] the sponsor. It's just saying do not require. Correct. That does not prohibit. It doesn't prohibit the use of which isn't that what people can do anyway or do we have a requirement for right there? Our ordinances already allow for either option. So what can I cover? What we say here tax is estates just that satisfy the concern. Recommendation for landscaping options. Oh, are we recommending it? I don't want to recommend it.

Well, what we're doing is we're answering the states uh soften that. So, it doesn't sound Well, the the language here is just a quotation from state law. They ask you to have a recommendation. The response in the text is that you have already responded to that by adopting an ordinance that does not require it. So, it's already in effect. So in effect any recommendation made has already the solution's already been created. That's what we're just outlining right here. How do we This is already fulfilled. How do we send a message?

Do we if you want us to? We we need to. So, uh, it would be working with our our local representatives and expressing concern about this particular issue and what could be done. So maybe that's just good recommendation that we do more research on the impacts of non strips particularly herbicides in our strips where non purified Well, that's probably the best we can be right now, right?

It really is. State law is requiring us to do this in this document. We're reflecting what we have already done. But we could put in language in there and because again, it's a general plan. It's not code. We're not saying people you have to do this. We can say uh for lack of better language right now. for next time we can amend this area and add in something like the city council intends to study uh the issue of pesticides in in uh the aquifer as a result of zeros escape and weeds and things like that and then that doesn't commit us to anything. It just says that's our intent. And then in the meantime, from a water resources standpoint, a planning standpoint, we can engage with state organizations and and city council with state legislators about this concern that has anybody looked at this. This could be a big problem. We don't know right now what's happening to the aquifer.

So you could position it as a stud that we're going to study that something along those lines. But ultimately the result of that study would be to come up with solutions that minimize the use of herbicides and Roundup and that sort of thing. That would be the goal. That is the goal. Yeah. Yeah. So you want to add that to the graph text. Anything else on that additional questions? Thank you. 2.3

come back to that. Yeah, be short probably. All right, let me short. This one's going to be 45 that far. Seems like that's long. Um, so do you want to go last? Yeah. Should we do the next the last two and then we'll come back and let you Yeah, we could we could do that. That's a good idea. Let's do that. Let's go to item 2.4, local limits for wastewater ordinance. price. You guys just can't get enough. That's it.

Oops. Okay, city council and mayor, thank you for putting me on the agenda. There we've got some uh some code cleanup that we need to do. um in the uh water reclamation. It was an error on my part, which I'll I'll explain. Um but before we dive into what that error is uh for the for the general public, I thought I'd quickly go over uh what pre-treatment and local limits are. So pre-treatment is a federally required program that regulates pollutants and wastewater flow from certain industrial users to reduce pollution at the source, protecting the environment and extending the life of ORM's infrastructure. So we have a pre-treatment program. We have employees that go around to various industries, sample what they uh what they're sending us in their sewage, testing it, and making sure that they aren't sending us anything that's going to be dangerous to the environment, to our employees, or damage our infrastructure. Um, in order to determine uh h uh what levels of contaminants we can receive, we need to do a study and determine what are called local limits. And local limits basically define the amount of certain pollutants that are allowed in wastewater discharge by certain industrial users and commercial users. So just because it's a pollutant doesn't

mean that our wastewater treatment plant can't handle it. It can it can handle a certain amount of it but not too much of certain contaminants. So what we do is we limit the amount that industry that would that would typically send those types of pollutants to the wastewater treatment plant to a certain amount. If they exceed that amount, they would be uh given a search charge. They pay for anything over a certain uh concentration that they send to us. Again, this protects our workers and it protects ORM's infrastructure. So, uh previously um this, uh city council, uh last year approved, uh made we made some changes. We did some cleanup to uh the uh chapter 20 of of the [clears throat] code, which addresses water reclamation. uh we made a standalone pre-treatment ordinance which is in the health and sanitation section chapter 11 and we included those local limits there. This was approved on June 18th of 2024. However, um shortly after that was done later in the fall, uh when we were looking at the local limits, uh the numbers that were presented to you on the screen, which were correct, we realized were different than what were what were reported or provided to you as well as to the state of Utah. a draft copy was unfortunately sent to uh the uh state of Utah and I am the guilty culprit and I'm accepting responsibility and have taken measures to get it corrected. Um so this draft was approved by both DWQ as well as the city council. When that was determined, uh, we sent a corrected copy of the report to DWQ. Um, uh, last December, by the time they got through all of their process of

public comment, uh, we received a letter from them on July 31st of this year approving uh, the the new document. So, this was the original slide uh, that I that I presented back in June of of last year. Um and you can see that uh and and this these are the correct numbers. So what was presented to you on the screen was correct but again the document was was not. Um and [snorts] uh so what we what we show here is that there were certain analytes that went that the concentration that was allowed went down. Those are represented by the red numbers. And then there were certain analytes that uh the concentrations that would be allowed that went up. So we could we determined that we could uh treat a higher concentration of of those at our wastewater treatment facility in conducting the local limits uh study. And so this is what should have been approved. Um it was represented to you and and it still is true that uh that there there would be very limited impact to our uh commercial and industrial uh businesses that would be regulated by this. Um the ways that it was caught was we were sampling at an industry that had higher than document said uh in copper. Um we were you can see that copper uh went from a 089 to a 2.71. So we can take more copper but the the actual approved copper amount was less and made us look at at the document a little closer. So this is the uh this this shows what it was previously. This is what the paperwork said and this is the correct amount which was again shown to

you on the screen. You could see that copper went from 089 to 07. So that's a a drastic decrease in the amount of copper. That was incorrect. Should have been 2.71. So again, the the correct paperwork was was submitted to the state, re-reviewed by them, approved, and now we're bringing it to you to to re to reapprove the correct documents and thus establishing uh these local limits for so um this particular ordinance uh is on today's consent agenda. for your consideration. Um, if you have additional questions, now's the time to ask them. Again, this was already approved by you. We're just uh

doing it with the right numbers. Initially approving the document with the right numbers. Uh once it's approved by you, I will take that report, send it to DWQ and let them know that that we've we the city council has approved the correct documents um by by resol I know by ordinance or approved an ordinance creating these these local limits. So So does anybody have a problem with that? I'd like to hear the argument if you do. [laughter] Zeke Steven and I were just discussing if a public flogging or caning. [laughter] That's our only question over here.

Give me just give me 30 seconds to a head start. I I have a question that doesn't have anything to do with the document um but more the gathering of the information the samples is that done at the facility and is that on a regular basis? Does it kind of surprise show up and to do a sample test? Well, that's a study that we do. Are you saying on the industry? No, I'm talking about how we gather those numbers, how we get that information, how we know how much copper, how much, you know, what all of those things that are in the water. I'm just curious how we

we'll take samples at the influent and then we'll take it at the affluent and compare them to see what our removal rates are and that helps us to we were able to calculate what the treatment capacity of the wastewater treatment plant is to be able to rem remove these pollutants. Is that we an annual basis or we do that every five years? Yeah. 5 to 10 years.

We work with the consultant on that to develop that. So there's a pie chart, if you will, and that shows all of the different contaminants and and what our capacities are in that facility. And we have to limit these locally at each of these sites so we don't exceed what our treatment plant can actually treat and take care of efficiently and effectively. And I did I I failed to mention we don't cover Roundup in any of these. So I don't know Len on that if she's concerned, but just kidding. [laughter] Different. But I could be wrong. There's our contaminants, but not in our sewer system.

Well, I appreciate your patience with me to take up a little extra time, but uh I'm being held accountable. I'm making sure that we get this correct. I'll sweep it under the rug and help us. You'll help us catch the phantom dumper. Get out of this case. He moved out of town. [clears throat] Scared him away. Okay, thank you very much. Um, okay. Next up, we've got item 2.5, CDBG participation plan, Cox.

Okay, this should be short and sweet. So every year we approve a CDBG partic citizen participation plan. Um and really all this plan is is required by HUD for us to be able to say this is how we allow our citizens to participate. These are the comment periods the windows you only have to pass this through the year. of this resolution we have today. There is one small change um at the request of MAG that we're going to that we have put in here and really this just applies to the year-end report called the caper the consolidated annual performance and evaluation report. This is our annual report that says um what projects we completed and um how those projects benefited low and moderate income residents. So, the only thing we are changing and adjusting this year is um we're shortening the the comment period for the caper from 30 days to 15 days to better align with um HUD's recommendations and reduce administrative burden and that's the only change that we're making this year. As an exhibit to this resolution that is on the presented agenda is our citizen participation plan. So, this has been reviewed by our legal team and and really that's the only change that we're planning on making.

And this was in our sent what you sent out, right? There except for the one change evidently. Any questions? Speak very shortly. Thank you. All right. Um I think we'll go ahead and bless and grab the food and we'll have you go after that also treats as council member Tom McDonald most recent share that with Brent Summer we were a week or so we we can celebrate Brent too.

You have a volunteer or somebody who would like to say a blessing on the food. Sure, I will. Mayor, if you would like. Father in heaven, we're grateful to be gathered in favorable circumstances and be able to discuss the needs of the city. We're thankful for the food that's been prepared for us and we ask a blessing on it. Help us to uh think clearly this evening as we go through events and uh be able to serve the people of the Lord in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

building heights. There's a home on Palisade with flat roof that has caused a lot of consternation in neighborhoods. And uh as we talked with you last time, what the zoning code does is it describes a box within which you can build a home. Uh rarely does somebody build the box. Uh and which is basically what happened this time. So we've been looking at some possible solutions and uh Jared and his team has looked at some. So, we have a couple of approaches that we think we could go that would resolve this issue from happening again. We do have uh flat roofs in the community and you'll see them around. Uh rarely does somebody max out where you build to the 35 foot single family height limit and then it's just a rectangular shoe box. It's it's the the shoe box that Shaquille O'Neal's shoes come in is basically what they built. So, we'll let Jared kind of now walk you through this and then we can uh talk about what if anything there is that we can do about the existing home.

Great. Okay. So, um as we as we go through these, just feel free to jump in anytime if you have questions or comments. Um, like Gary said, um, we allow 35 ft. I thought it just would be good to really quickly run through the standards. They're in 2268. You have, uh, again to read that section, feel free. Um, right now, so I've listed the R20, R12, R8, R75, 65,6, and 5. Um, 35 ft is basically the height that's allowed. I neglected to put right there on those. and 75,65 and six as well. Those are all allowed at 35 ft. The only difference is that in R20 and R12, if you if you are in those two zones, you can 20% of the roof area can go up to 45 ft, but you have to be in a greater setback. But the only kind of nuanced um version of anything we have really in our height restrictions for residential. Um other zones that allow single family would be open space zones, and they're all just allowed at 35 ft period. They don't actually include the language about the 45 foot exception, although they're on 5 acre lots and 1acre lots and things. So,

and and we're proposing to keep this standard in and basically, yeah, with maybe some modifications to be made um like Gary mentioned, it's very seldom that somebody wants to go all the way to that 35 and then build out to their setback lines too. That doesn't happen often and we don't have anything that would prohibit that currently. Um, we do have a couple of state codes we have to make sure we step around and don't uh fall foul of. Couple other things to note as we're talking about height is that we measure from what we call grade level. Um, you know, if a house is on a slope and the street is grade level, it can be 35 above that even though the back part might be higher. That's the definition we're going to decide on

kind of right now. The definition of height is vertical distance from the grade to the highest point of the structure. and grade is our average elevation of the finished ground level at the center of all the walls of the building. So this is kind of a simple illustration of what that would mean. If you're on a slope, we take those four corners and all those elevations and average them and say that's where we measure our 35 ft from. So regardless of where you are, we do more complicated versions of that, but that services most lots. When a developer artificially raise the ground level with that definition with that, well, yeah, lots get graded all the time in subdivisions when they're making subdivisions. They can raise lots up. We we worry about differences between subdivisions heights for grade between subdivisions and grades between lots.

You have anything regulating that?

No. And that happens frequently and that's one of the issues and we'll probably see that on Canyon Park be able remember the uh word perfect uh reszone as they go in there to meet all the sewer grades and things like that. They're they have had to bring in some fill. Uh and so now you'll bring in fill of five feet and then you'll go up 35. You could go up to 35 ft from there. So this is this is a thing that does happen and our code doesn't prohibit it that some communities might have uh a total absolute uh height or they define grade differently. This is a very common way of defining grade and this is what we do.

This is problematic for me just for Yeah. and and and this is a is a related but slightly different than the problem we have on uh Palisades where somebody built the box.

Yeah, true. Um does that make does that make sense though? The how we do it problematic notwithstanding as long as it makes sense. There are there are other there are other ways to try to do it that that might make more sense depending but right now that's what we do. Um a couple of things to note is Koopalas and domes and things like that aren't subject in our code that that does say those are exempted from that 35 ft. An uninhabited dome um parapits that are hiding uh or pertinances like air conditioners on roofs that kind of thing are also exempted. um they don't get to account for more than 50% of that upper floor though. Um so with those things established and that's how we those are our definitions, a couple of um things we ought to talk about. We may want to start defining what flat roof is versus a pitched roof. Um, in looking at lots of different examples of homes and things like that over the over the month, um, the 212 and 112 pitch, that's that's an inch of of rise over a foot of run. At 212 and 112, it basically looks flat as you're looking at a at a at a structure. So, a lot of that same problem that we're having or we've had with that Palisades home, it'll be an issue if that was considered pitch. and we were trying to to delineate between flat roof structures and the heights that they're allowed and pitched roof structures. So if we define pitch uh or flat as 212 and under, flat is 212 and under and pitch is anything greater than that. That's something to consider. Um those are just kind of examples of what that looks like in real simple forms. um the exceptions. I don't think that there's any reason in in looking at the places where they're allowed and the kinds of lot sizes that get that get uh put in place in the R12 and R20 zones. There's probably not any reason to be concerned and we don't have any cases where people have been super concerned about that 45 ft that's allowed when

you're 50 ft off the property line in those two zones. So, we haven't we haven't thought about proposing getting rid of that necessarily. Seems like 212 is still pretty new. It is. That's we would say this I would suggest that it might be appropriate to define flat roof as this is a flat roof and that's a flat roof and 012 is an absolute flat roof. Right? But I was thinking you might say flat is 312 or 412. So you get a anyway I don't know how much 312 how many inches on 12 3 in to 12 in. What's that on a normal size? Uh if you've got a 30 I don't know what's 30 20 ft. I don't know. What do you have? 20 ft.

I I don't know what that would be. 20 20. So 3 * 20 would be uh 30 in. That's only 2 1/2 ft. It's not a lot of rice. It seems to me that we'd want to define flat as something more than 212. It's my thinking. Absolutely. I don't know if it's 12 412 or 512, but something 412. I do 412 as your base. Keep in mind, too, that a lot of times there are multiple pitches on a on a house.

Yeah. So you could you could not to over complicate it but you could also say hey no more no portion if any if more than 50% I'm throwing out a fake number here now if more than 50% of the different roofs or roof structures in this building are 312 or less that's a flat roof building and that's going to be your standard. Uh or you can say any pitches that are like that. If we go if there's sections of the home that are bigger pitched like 812 that's a that's a 45 degree angle or 1212 is 45 degree angle but um I think that's 30 sorry if different pitches could have different heights allowed so if the flat roof section of your home it's 312 and under or whatever that's got to be a certain distance or setback or maybe that's subject to different rules wherever you choose to define it

or if it's lower than 20 ft like over your front door you can have that a little shed roof over the winch or something like that that's a lower slope That's where it's seen. You don't see in Utah with snow loads, you don't see a whole lot of really low pitches or flat roofs changing because of the products that are now available for flat roofs. Right. Right. So, and and changes in the weather, too. So, we don't see as much snow load anymore. Getting to older, but they just we can consider all of that, but you don't see a whole lot of a whole a whole house with a 212 pitch or something. It's just not close. But it it can be done. It's not prohibited. Common a traditional common single family home. Is it typically 812?

812 is pretty common. 812, 412. Uh the 312 you usually see on shed roofs on porches and things like that. A lot of garages. They're attached. They'll have a lower. It's like a I have 612 and 812. Yeah. You probably don't go 35 ft. Yeah.

And then the different sections will have different pitches a lot of time. Um it just depends. Um so that's something to think about and we could that's a number that could be set. You guys just need to think about might mean how flat is how leveled out is too flat. Um one of the things that we talked about doing sorry make sure I do this varied heights for varied roof styles. Flat roofs if we were talking about a flat roof a maximum height of 24 ft is pretty typical. Some some cities allow 28, some say 20. Um, but 24 for a flat roof maximum, we could go that route. And then pitched roofs would still be allowed the 35 ft. And then leaving those exceptions in place. Another way that we could look at it is to say different roof types. Pitched roofs, any greater than 212, get that maximum 35. And then flat roofs, you could say flat roofs at 212 or less or 20, they get 20 ft or one and a half stories. We haven't used stories to define our heights, but we could with something like flat roofs. Part of the issue with the the house that brought all this up is that it's three stories above grade.

And no basement, is there? There's a floor and a half below. Oh, is that Jeez? Basement and crawl space. They really filled that box even underground. Well, um yeah, there's a lot of space there. You know, there's a sign out front of the house now. I I didn't know that. Never seen that. Okay. And it it just says, "Hey, we're building this because housing is expensive. It's multifamily." They go through seven or eight little reasons and don't worry, it'll be done by Christmas. We just don't know what year. Nice.

Well, this this picture of the home um kind of just to illustrate some of those issues. Uh we could say look flat roofs like this would get 20 ft or one and a half stories above grade whichever is less at the front setback that's required. So 25 ft in this case front set back if they wanted to go higher then they set back an additional uh 5 to four is a typical ratio from the front or the back or both from the front. Um I would propose and I'm going to go to the next slide and say there's there's an interesting couple of interesting concepts we could look at for sides because sides are are an issue as well. Um especially as lots we're more built out in ORM as lots are more infill. Um yeah,

there's not as much space around people anymore. Let's I want to introduce this concept and see if this is something that's interesting to you and we can look at it further if it's something that that we should explore. It's called the graduated height envelope. Um they do this in in Holiday is where I found it. Um what it is is it's an in addition to an allowable height. The home is limited by a graduated height envelope that's created by you take a starting point at 8 ft on the property line. So this is the property line. Here's the total allowable height right here 35 ft at 8 at the property line. This is a sideyard right here at the property line. You go up 8 ft and you start right there. This imaginary line at a 45°ree angle. And you do that on all all side property lines and go toward the center of the lot. And everything on the home has to fit inside that tent that you just made with that 45°.

Although that one part doesn't, right? Right. And that's an exception. The window or whatever that thing is out front there.

This gable right here get gets an exception. And I'll I'll go to that in the next slide. But the basic concept is the roof line and the bulk of the house has to fit underneath that plane to create. And if you wanted to, for example, if they didn't want to gable that, they could still do that. They just have to push it back further from the sideyard to get under that imaginary tent. And what that does is keep you from having it protects those sideyard neighbors from a large blank wall like this. If this was on the interior side right up against somebody's 10ft sideyard on their side, ostensibly there'd be 16 or 20 ft between them. But looking at a 35 ft wall, no one expects that. They expect, like we've talked about before, they expect a shorter wall and then a pitched roof on top of that. you don't think about that three stories of box.

So this kind of concept would keep that from happening. The other added benefit it has is this little gable right here. Let me go to the next slide here. That gable would be an exception. And that kind of puts people in the position of saying, well, I want that room there. I can't have the flat roof over there. I can't just do a normal straight out pitch that way. But if I gabled it, that provides interest and kind of varied varied architectural feature that we're not allowed to require under safe mode anymore. But this isn't requiring architectural feature. It's just incentivizing you to use it if you want to use your height right up to the edge of where you're allowed on your setback. So that's an added benefit of that. Chimneys and other minor architectural features are not part of that envelope, just like they're not for our exceptions in our in our overall height, too. And they're not subject to this kind of graduated height envelope where they wouldn't be. So if you had a chimney on this

same is that the same as like a covered patio that's below the 15 ft. So it's okay. Yeah, that would be below that. So you'd be all right. You guesstimate how many homes in Orum would in line with this currently? Like how many of our properties now would I I couldn't tell you that. I we'd have to we'd have to do more work. like generally most of them some like any kind of

a lot of them would I I think this is because most people most homes in the city are either either they're older stock homes and they're not they're not built right to property lines or if they are they're simpler roof lines or they're newer homes that have steeper roof lines and more very different pitches all over the home and so you don't have that problem on the sideyard that's 10 ft or where your soil lives with a second story straight up with a blank wall but this ensures that doesn't happen. I I wouldn't wouldn't dare guess a number because I would be way off and uh you know if you look at that but again that's that's one of the things there is a simpler version of this. So I'm glad you asked that. Let me go to one. This would this also this would be for sideyards. They um holiday does not apply this to front yards. They don't apply it to public street facing or a street side. So it's not for the front elevation. It's for the sides. kind of protect that where it's in the closest proximity. Usually there is an alternate way to do this. Salt Lake City does this. Um they just have a simple exterior building wall requirement 20 ft. So your exterior building wall is limited to 20 ft and that that's imposed where the home is placed at its direct setback. So let's say your setback is required at side interior sideyard at 10 ft. Well, you can have a 20ft wall there, but then you've got to start uh pitch. That's the highest wall you can have. Period. Now, if you want to increase that, they they do Salt Lake City does a one over one ratio increasing. So, you're 10 ft. You want to go a little higher. You want to 21 ft for the wall, you need 11 ft of step back, and you just keep going. And that's where they've had infill homes all over the old city. That that works for them. So, you don't get uh you don't get this. If there were a home right here, that's kind of a lot of wall to be looking at if you're only 10 ft off of that. So, they wouldn't have that. That be further over. It doesn't limit anyone's ability to build a taller house. It just increases the setback if they're going on certain walls. That's a simpler way of doing that, of

accomplishing the same thing that the graduated envelope does. And then people like me don't have to do as much math, which is a win in a lot of ways. The less math I'm doing, the better off you all are. Less chance for mistake. But Jared complicated math. She was like coign of a tangent or something. Both of these options from what we understand fit within state code.

They're both still in use in Holiday in Salt Lake. I don't know that they've been tested, but they seem to fit it as I read the code. Yeah, they're not directly requiring a certain pitch or certain architectural elements. They're still dealing with setbacks that we're still allowed to regulate and height that we're allowed to regulate. So, they're tying them in a way that seems to I don't want to say skirts the state code, but doesn't fall a foul of it. And the idea, the concept behind this is we're redefining the box. And rather than just a plain vanilla shoe box, in this case, it's uh the box is has uh you go up a certain height, then the box goes in on a 45 degree angle. board or uh the box. If if you can have the box, you can have this box here, but if you're right next to the uh setback, you could have that box, but you just got to move it back a little farther and do things like that so that you just don't build traditionally just looming over your neighbor. So, we're really trying to merely define the box. We're not telling anybody you can't have a flat roof. We're not telling anybody what pitch it has to be, what kind of roof, anything like that. We're just if somebody's going to build the box, we want to enact an ordinance that has a better box.

So, how do they I mean, I I'm thinking of these these developments out in Lehi and Saroga Springs where you basically got 50 100 houses and you can't even tell which one's which. Yeah. You know, I mean, they're houses, but there's just hardly any space between them. Yeah, they're all stacked in there. This wouldn't work with that, would it? No, it would not. This would prevent this. This would not allow that. It wouldn't work for that. You'd need if you want to do that, you'd have to have some other code to do that. It would have to be a different exception or a different kind of zone, one that we don't have, but those are those homes. This seems like works great for single family neighborhoods and our traditional neighborhoods. If you were doing one of those truly small lot

Yeah. truly small lot developments would be hard to meet these kind of the exceptions. This this alternative exception is maybe a little easier to deal with in those instances. Then they wouldn't be super tall houses all together like that where they basically taken town homes and separated them with well feed. Yeah. And those those might have their place. They would not deal well with this. But you could have a different zoning area or something to deal with that. You just have to have special exceptions for it code for.

And this really is designed for existing single family neighborhoods. You know, our our our standard R8 neighborhood or R10 neighborhood that somebody's going to an older home burns down, they replace it or something. You know, some of the housing stocks getting a little older. We're going to see this more and more for if somebody wanted to come in and do a development say where and you'll see this all the time. You have a six foot sign yard set back on this side, the other side of the house it's zero and you've got only six feet in between homes. Well, this code and our normal zoning code is not for that. That's a special housing type development that we'd have to work with. But anything new, somebody wants to do an R8 subdivision, this would work well because that's a traditional neighborhood. This is a solution for the traditional neighborhood. I

I like your example with your sandwich box, Gary. Thank you. So, if if it's going to be just a plain box, you make it small or you set it further away or you make your box, dare I say, house- shaped. when it's trying to [laughter] say and my first house was a flat roofed house. I hated that roof, but but there it is. They're they're out there in the world. It just you don't see three story ones and this wouldn't allow that anymore. So, this is one way to approach it. I don't know if any of these ideas are do these make sense or this is this the right kind of direction do we think or what do we Do I have a question?

I think there's a place for this. I think in our neighborhood I saw a house go in that I thought, "Wow, that's really not appropriate there." But um I think there's a struggle between overregulating and protecting neighbors. Like where's the happy medium that what is the least regulatory approach we can take to this and still protect our neighbors? Sure. Um I think let me go well I don't need to go back to a slide like a home like this. These are unintentionally these are flat roofs. This is a very nice home. It's on a very big lot. There's there's no if if you were working in our code

in in our code right now, you could do this. And if you were working in this code right now, if we were proposing something like we're talking about tonight, you could probably do a lot of this because you've got enough space on the lot to move the house away and make it unobtrusive. This is really designed for people trying to maximize regular size 8,000 foot lot and really going crazy with that. If we did something like this alternative, the 20 foot, 20 feet is still a lot of wall. That's still a story and a half at least. Even with a vault in there, with a vaulted ceiling somewhere, that's still plenty of wall to start the pitch of your roof. I don't think it would really harm. That's pretty easy one to do, the Salt Lake version. Um, so I but it's a good question and I think they are kind of like Gary alluded to, they're kind of separate questions and the mayor's question leads to that too. There are places where we would want to do potentially smaller lot kinds of subdivision where it makes more sense. Um in the in the neighborhoods like on Palisades where this has happened. No, that's not where where we're looking at that. This would make more sense perhaps and maybe not be overregulatory in a small lot neighborhood or somewhere where we wanted to do smaller infill true infill housing developments as opposed to an infill lot. Um yeah, it might be overregulatory. you'd want to look at different possibilities for those but we have that kind of zoning right now PRDS

I would suggest [clears throat]

um I think the state to some extent prevents us from over because they don't want it to be purely design or aesthetic standard I think uh the intent here would be for essentially to encourage um being a good neighbor and to protect sight lines And so I think as as long as that's the focus and the main priority of the [clears throat] regulation then I think that naturally keeps us in check to to a large extent. here Gary or Jared is it oversimplifying it to say like what we talked about at the beginning if it's under a pitch of four 412 I think you mentioned it's got a 20 foot limit and if it's up that you have the 35 ft limit would that solve most of our problems

um well we're going to show you a house right now I want to see Did you adjust for your setbacks? No, not in this at all. So, that's a new home in or a significantly rebuilt home next to two older homes, right? No. They probably don't like them looming above them. Yeah. And it's and it's you got a major uh I don't know if that's completely flat, but it's flat. Yeah. Yeah. Don't quite know what it' be. Let's assume that that's a flat roof and you could could go there. Yeah. But that's probably not much over 20 feet. It's only two stories, right?

Yeah. It's it it's two stories. Um 20 right about there. Yeah. This is kind of a good example what I of what we may start seeing in Oram as older homes are tore down as lots are not available. This is in the Hillrest neighborhood by Hillrest Park. It's a beautiful home, but it really stands out against the existing housing stock. That's probably within code. I mean, everything's good on that, isn't it? It's all within code. We just want to give you a visual of kind of another instead of just a shoe box, but shoe box with some really The homes next to it are singlestory homes, right? Maybe with a basement. Ramblers with a basement. You can see the pitch on the He has a flat roof darn near

pitch right there. That's only a high home. 12. This is probably so it depends on what your goal is, right? I mean, it's arguable that, okay, this is the new house in the neighborhood. Maybe the other two will become like that, too. And you wouldn't have the issue. So, add on or something else, even if they kept the bones and added on or something. We don't want to overreulate and prohibit people investing in the property. Was that a total demolish and rebuild? Yes, looks like it. So the I think the conversation that also also has to be had is the property rights on both sides of the fence. You know overregulate well what who uses that definition? The person who wants this.

Yeah. But the person next door that says I don't want that threetory box next to me. you know, um they're not um the the property rights that they thought they had in place when they bought that house or built that house have now been violated according to the spirit of the law, right? According to that um landscape of that area. Yeah, this is certainly outside the expectation most people who currently live in that neighborhood have. And we're going to see this more and more as Oram redevelops all of these older homes. I grew up in a neighborhood just like this, you know, and

not the white one, the brick one. Yeah, the brick one. And you know, that neighborhood's a 1960s neighborhood. Yeah. And more and more homes. I drive through the old Ancestral Manor area and every time I go by, it's like, "Oh, wow. Somebody's doing something like this in that area. But also another thing is the trend, right? That looks to me like you've got 10 foot walls here. Yeah. 10 foot ceilings. Well, maybe at that level. It looks like a high level, right? Most likely. Yeah.

Like level for the garage. So you've got 10 over there, maybe eight over there. So right now the trend is 10 12t ceilings. I mean, you know, is that going to change the height or um it would just depend. It would depend on the architecture. A lot of times it's not the whole first floor vaulted ceilings, but part of it effect. So, tell me about the back setback. So, the rear setback is just is the 25 ft. So the the yeah the stuff about the sorry the the ideas about the the limits on the height of a wall here the external wall or the exterior wall height or the the envelope deal. They're mainly to treat the close neighbors which would be on the

here it's assumed is going to have 25 ft and another 25 ft on the back end of it and 50 ft between. So you're not going to have the same kinds of impacts front to front and back to back. You're not going to have the same sorts of problems. we do with we have the visual problem of of the palisades house just because it is so boxy. Um but that overall massing and height isn't as isn't as big a problem for people when they're looking at it across 100 ft of yard. That first example you gave in holiday. Yeah.

That makes things fit better, wouldn't you say? As far as so you don't have have this problem. It just makes people's houses forced to fit on their lot in a way that's not overwhelming their spot.

It it that's exactly what it's intended to do. Their purpose statement for it says this is I think it uses the term overwhelm to not overwhelm the adjacent. They they go further in in Salt Lake with that external building height and match heights and massing and things like that for homes on the same block face and things. suggested that because that's a lot more um [clears throat] that that starts to impact people's ability to add a second floor or whatever as you're looking at little homes that have not changed in years and years and years. And um

so I think we really have to define what we're trying to accomplish, right? And and what started this whole thing is that house on Palisades that has all kinds of issues, you know, for the neighbors. And so that's that. So I don't know if there's that. Then we've got the bigger issue of is is lots are sold and houses are because why this is a problem is because the lots are so stinking expensive that somebody takes out a lot now they want to put as much as they can as far as a house but then you've got to make that all blend. So it sounds like these are a little bit this is a big conversation to try and bring it together because we're trying to address the infill future of where we're going with this

address the issue without impacting the future ability of sure if I may can we also say from the time you pull your permit till completion has to be done within a year or year and a half or you start paying some penalty fine I mean the other thing Christmas isn't good enough yeah being done by Christmas which year I mean not only is it bad it's It's an isore for the whole. Can we set a limit on how long the permit's good for? That's a much more difficult question to answer and I don't have That's why I asked you, Gary. I knew you'd answer and and I'm going to give you a a great answer that uh you will appreciate. It depends. Thank you.

Under the building code, you get your building code and you can move forward. And what it says is basically as long as you have you're making progress which is basically defined by you get an inspection of something every six months you go on. So and and the building code is uh imposed on us by state law. We have to adopt and use that the building code and follow the rules in there an issue. Could we have something else in place? That's I don't have a good idea for that right now. That

I know they have like extra two years to get their lawn in or whatever, right? That there's some requirement. Seems like we could do something on start to finish and there have been some things uh uh NIT's been out there and they have some enforcement going on right now for some issues. But even if they had an issue with the building code, I don't know that the remedy at the end of the day would be uh you're tearing that house down. Well, I know, but you find them so much and then they get motivated to finish it. Yeah. And and but that issue something we need a lot more research and thought about.

So could we also I would like to look at flag lots and the impact. I believe we have different standards for those different stepbacks for them. same height restrictions between different setbacks. Okay. So when you say different setbacks and height restrictions, is that going to create more obstruction? Can there be more obstruction in a flag lot? Um right now not not really is the same side you're you have to have two 25 ft setbacks. We just don't tell you which one.

Okay, but let me tell you this. What I see with flag lots, instead of the house facing this way, you're pulling in and they set the house this way. So then the impact on the backyard neighbor becomes a sideyard which is 8 ft instead of 25 ft, right? Well, or 10 depending on 10 or 10 depending how you split it, right? So that's what I want to have addressed because that e expectation of having your backyard neighbor 25 ft from your fence should be the same. those those people who are already living there should be able to rely on that expectation of that setback. Okay, that's my opinion.

Bottom line, I think there's a fix that's fairly easy, could be fairly done to stop something like the shoe box house from being done again. Now, having said that, the issue of uh redevelopment in our neighborhoods as that happens, that's a much more complicated issue, I think, as you can see, than just the shoe box house problem. So, and you know, and the uh where do we measure grade from problem, you know, be because think of it, the grade problem's similar to if you had a 70 foot tall pyramid, it would only be 35 ft tall because you would measure from the middle of the pyramid. And you know, and that's not doesn't really make sense. So, we need to kind of figure that issue out.

Those are two separate discussions is what you're saying. Yeah, I think those are two separate discussions here.

Yeah. So, there's there's something we could do, I think, with the shoe box issue, but then these other issues, I I think we need to have a more comprehensive look at what do you do in a community like ours that's now redeveloping older neighborhoods that were built in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And you you've probably heard of McMansions and things like that. That's they refer to that when really big homes come into neighborhoods where they're traditional, you know, a rambler or a split level or something like that. And now people want to come in because they can afford to buy the home and tear it down and then maximize the box. Right.

So, yeah, to wrap up here because we're going to have to jump. I just have a quick question. Go through the agenda. Yeah. So this graduated height envelope, how does how would that have affected the house that you just showed us? So So my my my take on this, I think this is a really good thing to explore that graduated height, but that's got major implications. You go through all your redevelopment,

right, as far as that top floor. So I I think you I think like what we're saying is we need to have separate discussions about this. Well, we need to have a path where we're going to go down this path and number one is fix the shoe box house situation. We don't have that again, but then have a real serious conversation. Take some time to go through redevelopment and what we want that to look like and how we can I mean because basically you have you have to visualize these redeveloped neighborhoods, but then you've got to do it in the constraint of these are smaller lots. So, this will be a really good project for you guys to figure out. [laughter] [clears throat] Looking forward to it already. I can hear that coming. So, here it's like your gift to us to keep on giving.

Okay. But I I do I do think it's really important and it's super timely. So, I think those are things that we should keep going down this path. So, so fix the shoe box house and you guys come and I think this is great. that white house next in the I like that neighborhood and and that's the good thing we want to find out what's good and what works so that when we enact regulation we don't prohibit that by mistake okay all right thank you go we're going to run through the agenda really quickly Um,

Jeff and Tom, you want a one minute report or not? No report. Well, we need a report at some point. Um, do you guys have a short? I have a short report. I don't know. Jeff, he has none, evidently. He left the room. Left. [laughter] He's got me back up here. You want to now, mayor? Sure.

So, I serve on the following committees. Utopia, which is almost 40% complete. Norm, and Bren, I thank you for sending out that information we got today. Thank you. Um, I'm on the IHC outreach committee, but for future reference, they're not going to have that anymore. They're changing. They're doing a more uh regionalwide IHC reach out, so that probably won't exist. I'm on two uh Utah League of City and Towns committees, but have have been uh released from those. The audit committees once a year, and I probably won't come back for that. And CB CDBG, we had a great report today. So that's those are my committees here. Mayor, thank you.

Uh my my commission's uh the transportation commission. Um we've been

had a lot of great discussions. Um happy to see the the 1200 South roundabout completed. Uh that's been on the agenda for years. And uh also 1600 North and 400 East is a continual discussion item. uh hawk lights and and bike routes and do exciting things there. Um I also serve on the UVU uh outreach commission and uh we deal with little things as they pop up uh concerns with neighbors or or other things that come along. Um serving on the care commission uh with Dave, we've done our work there and that'll come around again after the first of the year. We'll wrap up for that again and we'll be hearing from Adam Robertson tonight, one of our major recipients of those care uh grant dollars. Um and then the ORM Youth Council. Um we just got our new council put together uh couple months ago. Um just looking around to see if any of the staff that were involved in that were in here with us. Jen and I serve on that together and uh they're amazing young men and young women that are excited to learn about what goes on in the city and how things work and and uh we had a mock city council meeting in our meeting last week and uh we could we could strive to emulate their enthusiasm. They were so cute as they were participating in that and learning from that. Jake and Trevor both had some great points of discussion for them and things to think about and kind of internalize. So, but excited excited for them and great things that they will do. Also, they've got some fun projects lined up

throughout the year, service projects and different things that they can serve in the community as well along with their learning process. So, I forgot to mention Chris and public works and the great work they do. I'm on that committee and it's neglected to mention. Thank you.

Yeah, we went through the agenda really quickly here. We've got uh item six in vacation this Tammy Rodriguez allegiance debt introduce them um you got item 8.1 report neighborhood advisory commission 8.2 2 a report from the Metropolitan Water District. 8.3 a presentation hope forumorum gold star memorial donation 8.4 presentation lights [clears throat] on preview 8.5 a report with Sarah 8.6 Six, presentation from the fire safety event recap. And then we have nine, personal appearances. Item 10, consent items. Uh, approval of meeting minutes. September 9th, September 23rd. Approval 206, city council scheduled. Uh, 10.3, appointment, neighborhood advisory commission.

Are they all new or are they reassignments? All new.

Then we got item 10.4, before a resolution on the CDBG participation plan. Item 10.5, an ordinance approving local limits for wastewater. Item 11, scheduled items, canvas, acceptance of certification of the 2025 city of general election. And item 11.2 two of public hearing resolution fiscal year 2025 2026 budget amendments and the one we never we always have but we never do what we'll offer financial information and item 13 Ren and then item 14 to close our session but we're not going to have that closer session

so we'll that was by mistake unless you want to talk I shouldn't care. So do what do we need to do Cleveland that from the agenda? I just ignore it. Basically move to the meeting. Thank you.

Made everyone stay. Stay longer for that. Oh, dang.

It was it was beautiful. They had like toys for there. They have their little dress up. They got butterflies. They have ladybug, of course, flower pictures, like

so many pictures. Yeah. And then they did like um finger foods like they had sliders and she loved these little donuts. So they had like beautiful open house wasn't like she was there was no right. It was just an open house. But it's still this what I do prefer my standing although he's going to talk about feisty funny because where they had it where like I've been there one other time it's dark on like 39ish at might be. Hey, are you home?

Um, but it's just beautiful. They have you walk in and they have a memorial room over here. So, you that's where you put the candles and the photos and like all that. And then over here like the whole captain, they have like a video room. Then you go in the back and a big outside. They have fire pits with all these conversational areas. Like it's really it's an old home that's been remodeled into this like I don't know how long it's going to say.

Yeah, maybe it was a house. I don't know. Starks. Test test test. Yeah. So thanks ladies. Yeah, you got this.

Test test test. testing one, two, three. Can you hear me? Okay. Uh, yes, Chris, we can hear you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I have any stuff. Oh, yeah. [laughter]

Right. You have your You have your $4.55 uh Carl Hers sports card. May I know some of those others? Visiting artists for the America 250. Yes. Boiler down.

Yeah. She's like,

thank Okay. Station. You should say pretty nice and trust. relationship. Mic. I'd like to welcome you to our city council meeting tonight. And we'll start off. We'll call this meeting to order. and we'll have an invocation by Tammy Rodriguez and a pledge of allegiance by Debbie Lamb. And Len uh invited these folks to come. And so if you'd like to introduce them, Len.

Yeah. So Tammy and Debbie serve on our neighborhood advisory commission and have done a wonderful job there and want to tell you we are grateful for your service. So thank you for coming tonight. Okay, Tammy, if you'd like to give the uh invocation and then we'll have Debbie come up after and give the pledge of allegiance. Our father in heaven, we are in great indeed grateful for the opportunity to gather together as a community this evening to discuss the needs and the progress of ORM and ask for thy spirit to be with us that as we discuss these things that our minds and our hearts might be touched to be open to new ideas and that we can remain uh positive and work together for the betterment of Arharma. We are grateful father for all the blessings that we have especially for this land of freedom that we enjoy. And we pray for these things father in the name of thy son Jesus Christ. Amen. Please repeat after me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll move on to item 8.1. We'll have a report from the Neighborhood Advisory Commission with Debbie Demo. Uh Reed Farnsworth if you'd like to come up. Uh thank you for inviting us to do this today. Um let's go to the first slide or even let's go to the second slide.

While she's bringing up this slide, ORM is divided into neighborhoods. Each of them is about a mile by a mile in size. We have and then we combine them together to form neighborhoods. So we have nine neighborhoods. Uh I'm the commissioner of one of them. In fact, each neighborhood typically has two commissioners. If you go to the next slide, it shows what those neighborhoods are. Um and who the commissioners are. If you look through the names, you'll probably recognize some of those people. We're a varied group. There's young and old, male and female, and our opinions are varied, and we all care passionately about ORM. I'm sure you know the value that comes from having a variety of opinions that are passionate and care about the city of ORM and how it all works together for the better good. Let's go to the next slide. Oh, these commissioners typically serve, they're invited to serve for about two years. Some have to quit early because of family things. Some continue longer. I'm I think on my fourth year now going on my fifth year. So, it's a good group. Over the past year, we've been working together to learn more about the city and worked with the ORM city council and staff to plan and execute ways to get our residents more educated about, involved with, and connected with our community. Uh let's this is the fourth slide here. Okay. We've been learning from public safety, the community oriented policing, neighborhood improvement team, the community development, uh, regarding planning. Um, we've been learning from developers, engineering, and various divisions, and the Oram city legal team regarding short-term rentals, etc. We had a wonderful uh meeting last week where we talked about the concerns and it's interesting because now we get a

feeling for what you have to deal with. These are not easy decisions and a lot of people pro and con on each side and we uh appreciated learning that and look forward to giving you some input on what we think might be the best direction to go based on what we learn from our neighbors. We continue to work with the city to improve communications, ensuring all residents are informed about events, happenings, and other activities in their neighborhoods and throughout the city. This is something we look forward to continuing and enhance in the future as we work together. We had a kindness week, shared activities. Let's see. Are we in the right slide? Let's go to the next slide, I think. Yep, there we go. We had a kindness week where we shared activities on social media platforms with the communications team, celebrated Oram's 106th birthday, had kids activities at Nelson's Grove Park, as well as service projects, cleaning up the flower beds, police awarded students who they caught doing acts of kindness with gift cards for treats from the chocolate. We hosted a booth at the Sharon Park, My Hometown grand opening. Some of you were there. It was quite memorable. We distributed information from the neighborhood from the neighborhood improvement team. We gave away candy uh ORM city jigsaw puzzles, challenge coins. Had kind of a windy glitch. We call it the ORM NATO. Uh and I appreciate you putting me first today because as soon as we finish, I'm going to head over to the chapel two blocks away to participate in my hometown. I every Tuesday night I tutor students who need help with homework. That's just one of the things we do. We have English as a second language, Spanish as a second language, sewing classes, piano lessons for free, homework help, uh lots of good things

for the neighborhood and it brings a lot of people together. Uh let's go to the next one. I think we held three open houses. two for Sunset Heights at the Orm Recreation Center and one at Hillrest uh at Hillrest Park. Let's go to number six, slide six. We absorbed the beautifification committee and are awarding 36 $25 gift cards to winners along with a $100 gift card for the grand prize. We judged those last week in our meeting. It was a difficult uh competition. We have some beautiful homes in our city. Uh slide seven. As we look ahead to 2026, we're considering small-scale service projects that will be planned and and coordinated by district leaders. And we have unique challenges in each of our neighborhoods. But we are working to to build a better community each day. As you well know, each of our neighborhoods have different needs. And it's a good committee that we have that gets together. They know their neighbors. They're getting to know their neighbors more. We do a lot of outreach and we try to get input from the community and we try to take information from the city back to the community. Thank you for this time. Any questions?

All right. I think we're done. I just want to say Reed, we appreciate your service. Um, I'm over the neighborhood commission and we really do have a lot of energy on that commission. Um, our members care about ORM and we're so grateful for that. And I really liked how you touched on our goal of creating connection and unity and service in ORM. And I don't he didn't really say there there have been opportunities that you know we've seen our commission members pass out breakfast at the at the oh my gosh what was that rockfest called? Um we get come together rockfest.

Come together rockfest. Uh you've been in the booths to sign people up for the ORM newsletters. I really appreciate the car shows. Thank you for all of those extra hours you put in. Thank you. I'm going to go do some tutoring at my hometown. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Can I can I have one more thing? We have some commission members here. Will you stand up? Those of you who came for this presentation just kind of in support. So, thank you. Thank you all for coming.

Thank you. Next. Next [clears throat] up, item 8.2, a report from the Metropolitan Water District. And if Chris, if you'll all introduce yourselves.

Sure. I'm Chris Sheri, Orum Public Works Director. Casey Shaw is the district chairman of the Metropolitan Water District of ORM. I'm the vice chair. Reed Price is here as our uh well our manager actually our general manager for Metro Orum. He also is my assistant director at Orum Public Works. We don't have any other members from our district here present, but I'll turn the time over to Mr. Shaw.

Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity. I've been challenged to make this concise, so we'll do that. The ORM Metro District is purpose is to provide and protect the water supply for ORM citizens now and in the future. And our our uh district is fully staffed and functioning. We recently completed our audit for the 2425 fiscal year. We received a cleaned opinion and uh indicated that um we were in good shape both financially and and controls in the district. Um a couple of issues we are facing. The current Deer Creek um outlet is uh many years old and is being reconstructed because we have water rights that uh with the uh organization that runs Deer Creek. We're responsible to pay a portion of the cost. That's a $100 million project. Um the city has been gracious enough, the city council, to approve a special um water fee on our water bills to take care of that. And uh they're finishing up and and anticipating that they will come in under budget. So that's a good thing for us. Um you probably have heard that uh although Oram is no longer an agricultural city. Um se two canals that have been historically uh have historically served Oram are u being in the process of being dissolved. the canals can no longer um they don't have enough users and they have uh a lot of trouble keeping them up so the water doesn't leak out and they've uh elected the water users have elected to dissolve those water companies. We have a good portion of our water in those water in those canal companies. Um and we've been working with shareholders. They're mainly um [snorts]

homeowners that water their garden or their lawn. a few remaining uh uh urban farmers do fruit trees and we've been working with them to provide them alternatives because the water will no longer be delivered uh as of this summer and they're in the midst of dissolving those companies right now. Um and we're participating in that uh in that dissolution and perhaps we'll be able to pick up some additional water uh for Orm City as well. Um anything you would add, Chris? Yeah. So, uh, between Reed and and Casey and myself, we have met with a few, uh, shareholders who are interested in connecting to Orm City Supply. And for those larger users, uh, those that may have 5 to 10 shares, um, we've encouraged them to consider looking at drilling a well on their respective properties if they wanted to continue to farm on their agricultural area. So, we have developed a plan moving forward to accommodate their needs and if they have if they are interested, we have a 0% interest loan for them. They can pay us back over 5 years to to help them um make this transition.

Mayor, if I may, they've all been informed. Everyone who's affected knows this and has communicated with you. That's correct. Yes. Thank you. We have no other info unless you have some questions. hot dog. Thank you. Okay, thank you for that report. Appreciate it.

Okay, next up, item 8.3, a hope for Orum Gold Star memorial donation. I was hoping my friend Gary would be here from the VA, but I'm guessing he is stuck in Salt Lake traffic. Um, thank you for having me. Um Kathy Ambrose from Hope for Orum and thank you staff and council for having uh me here today. Um I think it's fair to say that everyone here has been affected in one way or another by mental health issues or suicide. In 2018, our nonprofit was founded by Janice Lindley because she was uh deeply moved by the suicide crisis in our city, especially with young adults and teenagers. Since then, our mission has been to support ORM through suicide awareness, prevention, and mental health resources. As the executive director, I work continually to research and implement effective strategies to help reduce suicide in ORM. Since our be beginning, Hope for ORM has awarded more than $10,000 in scholarships to high school seniors at the three high schools with a essay they write on what does kindness mean to them and how they implement it. We've also uh given several grants um over $60,000 to local schools and their PTAs to run their uh suicide prevention curriculums [snorts] and help help them embellish these programs. Uh we also do community outreach uh our yearly booth at Ormfest and our yearly mental wellness fair at Library Hall. All of our services are complimentary. Our goal of giving individuals and families the tools they need to support

mental wellness and prevent suicide. We know the challenge is great, but we remain fully committed to this work. When we learned of the Gold Star family memorial, we immediately began working on a contribution of $1,500. Recognizing that veterans and their mental health is a critical part of the suicide prevention effort, supporting this memorial aligns perfectly with our mission. Hope for ORM is also part of the Utah County Hope Task Force, a coalition of nonprofits and mental health partners working together to reduce suicide throughout our county. It's a membership of hospitals, um, Wasatch Behavioral Health, Aspen Grove Health, um, many more that I can't list. BYU and UVU are part of this coalition. Um, I had invited Gary Blair from the VA to speak about his mission with the VA on suicide prevention. Um, but we will excuse him. But thank you. And I have the fake plastic check cuz I walked in here and gave the real one to Peter because I know I would lose it between here and there. So, he has the real one. So, thank you very much. If you'd like to come up take a photograph. One, two, three. Excellent.

Okay, next up we'll have item 8.4, lights on preview. Perfect. Well, we are just going to preview what's coming. for Lights On this year and excited. Can you guys just introduce yourselves? Oh, so sorry. I'm Sydney Wong or Bailey, whatever you want to go with. Um, and I'm an events coordinator for the city. I'm My name is Kenise Whitaker and I'm the events manager with City of War.

Perfect. So, yes, we're just going to talk about Lights On our upcoming Christmas event in the park. Um, the Hallmark special, per se. an exciting one to finish the year be December 1st, 5 to 8:00 p.m. That's the Monday after Thanksgiving in the city center park. Um, and we are going to have a lot of holiday tree lights. Obviously, that's where the magic happens this year. 105 illuminated trees. You can see the colors on this map is the colors of the tree and then over 700,000 bulbs, which is more than we've ever done. So, bigger and better every year. We will have a program on the stage which starts out with our own ORM High jazz band. We'll start us off and then we'll have a short program where the mayor will introduce um Santa Claus to the arena and we will have a lights on where we'll countdown and turn on the lights. We will also have a drone show following the program. Yes, [laughter] should be a good time. It's about it'll be about 12 minute show with lots of fun um holiday lights and images that will be illuminated in the sky when the drone shows ends. The fun still continues with stage activities and entertainment. So we have some returning activities that we've seen in previous years again that on stage um stage entertainment like she said the Oram high jazz band. We have an ac capella group that's at UV um from UVU. We have Steve. He does the saxophone, which maybe you guys have heard before. The live reindeer will be back. We'll have letters to Santa and pictures with them. Yes, the holiday drone show. Cross your fingers it works. Um we'll have the rides on the ORM Express. Free hot chocolate thanks to um Trio and Walker Sanderson. And then the holiday market will be back.

We have some fun new activities that we're introducing this year as well. Last year we had kind of a spontaneous uh photo opportunity happen with our own Orums Grinch. And so this year we're making it a little more intentional. He'll have his own spot where you can come and get your fun picture with him. The events commission has also introduced a family scavenger hunt where families will be able to look for um special moments in the park and encourage them to explore all of the activities that we have to offer throughout the park. When they complete this scavenger hunt, they'll earn a special ornament that will commemorate the lights on for this year. We also wanted to provide a couple of activities and options for the community to give back. So, we have a holiday wreath auction that we'll be doing this year. It's kind of our culminating fundraising um event for the Gold Star Memorial. We have some community members who have donated, some wreaths, and also some of our own city employees and some departments who will be donating wreaths for people to start auctioning on and they'll be on display at Lights On. The youth council, our youth council is also hosting a donation drive where you can drop off some donations that night at our information tent. Any new books or toys or clothing for children who are in need. Um, we'll have some really fun photo opportunities throughout the park as well that Sarah is donating a Santa sleigh and we'll also have some custombuilt uh [clears throat] or opportunity like photo opportunities. So, make sure to check those out. Um, in celebration of America 250, we have one of our trees that will be dedicated in red, white, and blue. and we'll have a little story in front of it about the Liberty Tree from the Revolutionary Time

period. So, make sure to enjoy all of these fun new activities. We certainly couldn't do this without some of our very generous sponsors. We have Mountain Star um who is our Tempos Regional Hospital. Also, TRIO and Walker Sanderson are providing our hot chocolate complimentary to our attendees. Um, Utopia has also generously provided some cash donation as well as Rocky Mountain Power and the Sarah of course is going to be there supporting us in uh with master of ceremonies and also with our decor. Do you guys have any questions?

I I just want to I I just want to frame this for you guys as as [clears throat] far as what a big deal this is. So four years ago, we had we had a lights on celebration that we'd had for years with a few hundred people and it was a, you know, it was the traditional lights on. And then the next year after that, we started construction of the new city building. And so we were told that we would need to cancel lights on and just bring it back after the new city building was work was done. But instead, our innovative staff came together and said, "No, we're not going to cancel lights on." And we went from this small little lights on to the first year was 2500 people came. Last year 7,000 people came and uh we we're we're now up to 700,000 lights. So this just shows the innovation of our of our staff and our team and what you guys do. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Speaking of innovation, Pete's team is working on like several videos to get um whether or not we want that many more people in the park, but we have follow social media. There's some fun videos coming out. They're very creative. Watch one of them today. And stay tuned. Yeah. Can I ask a quick question? Um in years past, we've left the lights on well past Christmas and New Year's. Is that the plan again this year? We don't know, but we Yes, it's But it's kind of a surprise. We will keep the surprise hidden until later.

Yes. Tune in for the surprise. [laughter] Any other questions? No. Thank you for doing an awesome job.

Thank you. Okay. Item 8.5, a report from our favorite the Sarah Adam Robertson. Oh, look at that. Well, thank you very much for having us today. We're happy to come and and talk to you. We um we love being a part of Family City USA and uh that's that's important. This year we uh we just started our 92nd year at uh as an organization and just completed our 41st summer at the Shell this summer. Sarah's mission is to enrich the mind, touch the soul, and unify family and community by producing and presenting wholesome and affordable arts, entertainment, and education for all ages in quality facilities. Our goals for serving the community are to produce, present, and provide a wide variety of opportunities for citizens of all ages to be enriched, entertained, and educated. whether it be as an audience member, a student, an artist, a teacher, a performer, or a volunteer. And we have our great Sirrus Center here. Uh it's quickly turning from fall

to Christmas at the Sirrus Center. Uh as we have a lot of Christmas decorations, as I mentioned, um at the Sira Shell, we just completed our 41st summer. Uh we're so grateful for our partnership with the city and and uh are still just enjoying this new beautiful fence thanks to our partnership with the city uh and new add-ons this year. We love on the north entrance there the the new benches and and uh cans and on the south and makes it much much more inviting for people as they come and go. Of course, if you didn't see the tulips in the on the north end there, they just looked amazing this year as people uh came to the shell. We're also doing everything we can to continue to update and enhance the facilities. Uh just this last summer, we added uh two new pads and and um electrical and and pavilions on both sides of the the main concessions area. This is um this is the summer season that we just completed. Uh there's some many of you were there uh through many of these, but we had some great great productions with Newsies and uh there's Lonear Annie of course on the stage. We've got lots of slides here so we'll go. There's Hunter Hayes. We didn't get them all in here, but Hello Dolly was a fun show. This was our 20th year for Dancing Under the Stars. This is one we started uh with two other studios uh 20 years ago and everyone that is huge in the dance world has been in this show sometime in the last 20 years. Uh in fact, many of them for the 20th f did video messages like Derek and Julianne Huff and many others just said we grew

up on the Sra Shell stage in this show. and and so it was kind of fun to to bring back some of our favorites. Of course, uh every year we have the national award-winning cougarettes on there as well. This was just our our closing number. Lots and lots of upandcomers uh in the dance world. Uh Aaron Tvate, big Broadway star, uh movie star, and of course we love our partnership uh with the Utah Valley Symphony every year that that we produce that concert with. Um, again, more concerts, lots of fun. Yeah, Commodores. And then, uh, I I thought this was fun. Our our concluding concert was the the Beatles. And I loved the couples dancing. So many of them, uh, just up and dancing. It was great. Of course, we ended with a paying at the end of the summer. Our outdoor movies continue to be very popular. People love to come out under the stars and see on a big big screen uh and lay there and and have fun, watch good movies. Um we continue to have a great relationship with Centennial Elementary. Um as they come, they have an every student in the school comes every month. Um and so it it there's only three three or four classes a week, but they come through and have an art experience, a dance experience. they come up and they we do Q&As's uh with them and and they learn the technical aspects of shows. Uh it's a lot of fun. [clears throat and cough] Every month we have different exhibits in our gallery. Uh this is the public art show that's currently in the in the gallery uh which also serves for recital and and meetings and and other things. Our volunteers are awesome. We have more than a thousand volunteers that come, youth and adults uh come at the both at

the center and at the Shell. And of course uh it it's always worth mentioning we're 100% community theater. So every single person on the stages are volunteers also. Um anyway, Shell, lots of kids. We also have a lot of community projects that come through. This was one just a few weeks ago uh with the day of giving in the courtyard working along lots and lots of special events. Uh literally hundreds of groups use the Sierra that are not Sierra. Um and we also have many special events of our own. This was just last weekend. Our our annual celebration of veterans. Our Christmas makers markets coming up this December 12th and 13th outside. These are handcraft handmade items. It's always a lot of fun for the kids. Um, and Sarah likes to come alive as well. And, uh, nowhere near 700,000 lights, but we love Christmas. Uh, always love participating in the in the parades um, as well. It's so so fun. The Colonial Days, which we heavily support every year, is a a favorite of the community. Um, lots of community workshops. Uh, of course our annual fundraiser that we do at Sierra. We love our partnership with the UVO culinary arts program. Um, they do a wonderful job and always tie it into whatever theme we have each year. The the Zans Indie Filmfest is another collaboration that we've we've done for many many years. Um, this was just last year when Brandon Fugal talked about Skinwalker Ranch and all of all that they're doing. Uh, lots and lots of special events at this era. 2026 marks 50 years since the founding of the ORM Heritage Museum. So, we're gearing up for that as well. Uh it was founded in

1976 and um was for many years in the basement of the friendship center and um for whatever reason as the programs continued to grow there uh they said we need more room and and the museum moved out of the basement and that was fertuitous because a few weeks later it burned down and all of the ORM Heritage Museum belongings were in our storage unit and safe from that uh that inc. president. It then uh in the early 90s uh was home uh in housed in the the second floor of the Sira Center and now of course in the historic uh seminary building. Um we uh in preparation for this 50 years have done a lot of work ourselves in uh resurfacing the entire outside of the museum getting it ready new sophet fascia gutters um lots of upgrades so that it is is ready. Um, we also have the the shops building uh behind the Sierra where we paint and build and all the props are are there. The costumes um are we have we just have the greatest staff uh there is out there in my opinion. Uh they're always working hard. Our arts education is absolutely huge. We had um oh I wrote it down here. Um, number of children, teenagers, and adults attending arts education programs, 63,000. Um, some know some of those were one class, some of those are multiple classes, but that's just in one year. Uh, lots and lots of programs. Our choir, uh, we just started this year the

Sierra Chamber Singers. This is a large group of adults. Um, and they've had one concert already. They have a Christmas concert coming up. Our dance program is exploding with all kinds of ages of kids. Uh, adult programs are expanded and growing. Uh, this is some of our youth theater productions. Uh, they do a wonderful job in the youth theater department. And of course, the high school age kid, the oldest uh, age group uh, in in our theater department is acting up. This is their production. and they just finished last spring of lay miz and um you know so we we talk about quantity a lot at the Sierra we've got a lot of qu we've got a lot of kids a lot of people but how what is the what's the quality like and the only way you know that is if you leave your comfort and and go out into the world and compete with other theaters of your age and you're we're in the advanced category uh the largest group on this side of the Mississippi is MTCA, the Music Theater Competitions of America. And uh groups from Canada, Florida, literally all over the country come they they go to California and they compete in many divisions again acting ups part of the advanced group and every single year without fail they come back first or second place in the nation. Uh so we we feel like there's quantity and quality. Um they took first place in the group ensemble again this year. And you can see all the second place trophies and things. Many of these kids uh also garner scholarships at this competition that they take with them to university. The Sierra Art Studios is growing and expanding uh as well. Our puppet studio,

our pottery studios, our adult classes. Uh this was our event that we had on Memorial Day of this year. Our uh our pottery event that we had for the public that was fun in the big pavilion. Our art classes, our one night only paint the nights are very popular as well. Um there's some stained glass students. Um lots and lots of fun. And of course our one of our largest programs is our theater for young audience programs where we do one in the fall and one in the spring. We kids bus in from all over the county and see a one-hour show based on popular children's books. Uh we just closed this show uh right right around Halloween time and um and then the the kids get to come uh after the show. We're doing Peter Rabbit in the spring. Um and afterwards they come and they ask questions and um it's interesting. We always say how many are you how many of you are here for the very first time seeing live theater and nearly 50% every time are being exposed to the magic of live theater and it's fun. The questions that they have at the end are are just are great and we each show we bust in around 10 to 12,000 kids for each show. They do 21 shows uh of these. Our indoor season, we just kicked off uh and just closed Hunchback. It was very popular. People loved it. It was a well well done production. We had Joshua Creek in concert. Our annual Tricks and Treats was fun. Uh just last week, the Truman Brothers with their uh statewide tour. Uh we just closed on Saturday night, the night of Broadway. Again, these are these are people that are from all over the state and all over the county who um

come and share their talents. It was it was just fabulous. We opened on December 5th the best Christmas pageant ever. Very uh great message for the holidays. We encourage you to come check that out. Lots of other things coming up. We've got a storytelling night. Acting Up's doing Hades Town this year. School of Rock and uh Ryan Inennis, Alan Bis. Uh we have even a little bit of sunshine in January with our luau. Lots of fun things coming up. Our cinema classics continues to grow and become popular. I put both of these on there because uh we're just we just finished today this this last one in the fall and then we have another 12 weeks of our winter coming up. And just today we had 300 and something uh seniors that came at 10:00 a.m. to see a good old classic. So anyway, they love John Wayne. Um but but lots of fun things, lots of fun fun movies. Art has the power to transform, to illuminate, to educate, inspire, and motivate. And I put this up. The creative arts are the measure and reflection of our civilization. They offer many children an opportunity to see life with a larger perspective. The moral values we treasure are reflected in the beauty and truth that is emotionally transmitted through the arts. The arts say something about us to future generations. Um I just in closing um you know we we uh we're already gearing up for uh in just eight short years Sarah will celebrate 100 years of Sierra. We've got lots of plans in in the making for that. At the same time, the Shell will celebrate 50 years. Um and uh so that's that's lots of fun things planned for that. Um

we we love our collaborations. We collaborate with the Utah Valley Chamber of Commerce regularly, Miss Oram, the Utah Metropolitan Ballet, Zans's Film Festival, I mentioned, Center Stage, the Mr. I miss inspirational uh pageantss, the Freedom Festival, UVU, BYU, um lots and lots of um great collaborations. Uh SIRA is uh the percentage of expenses covered by ticket sales and operational revenue is 76%. That is the opposite of the national average. So, we feel like we're doing really, really good and we very much appreciate the support of the care program and the city uh which helps make up the difference um to nearly a quarter of a million people who come through our doors and gates every single year. Um and we've had in the 41 years at the Shell just a little over 1.5 million people uh attend something at the Sira Shell. Um, lots of nearly 5,000 people a year visit the ORM Heritage Museum and learn about the history of our of our great city. Um, we live in a wonderful place. We're lucky to have an organization like Sierra in our community and we very much appreciate you guys and what you do. Do you have questions?

Just admiration. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Tom. I I just would like to say thank you for bringing the community together. As much as I love the arts, and I do, I love even more that you bring the community together in such a great way, doing positive, uplifting things. So, thanks for your efforts there. Yeah, thank you. Um, you know, one of my favorite things is to stand at the top of the hill during an event and watch people wave to their neighbors across the way. And it just really brings that community together. Uh, many of you are nodding your heads cuz you've seen it. you you see that community and to think that that's right in the middle of a 30 acre park in the dead heart of our city uh is is just amazing. It's it's a great thing.

And I had a child who participated in your productions in the outdoor shell and just that um opportunity of community theater. I mean, she's majoring in theater now at BYU. Just um was it, you know, you couldn't replace that with anything else. Um it was so different from the high school experience. I mean, you had a professional tap dancer come and teach them how to do some of these things. And anyway, thank you. You run a quality program. It's fantastic. Thanks. Thank you.

And if I could just add my two cents as well. Um Adam just recently received an award from the Utah Valley Chamber of Commerce. So, it's not just us folk here in ORM that recognize and appreciate your great work, but also the the entire valley. Uh, you do an amazing thing and and I just want to uh comment on you talked about the quality. Um, that's one of the things that that we've noticed. It it just keeps getting better and better and better with each year. The productions um just keep improving. And I know that takes a lot of work and so thank you to you and your amazing staff and all of those volunteers who make it happen. Thank you. You really do make

Family City USA feel like a family. Thank you.

Thank you. I I I just want to add as far as um Adid and I have gotten to know each other really well over the last four years. And if you were to try and create a community, arts and entertainment uh situation, you couldn't do any better than what the Sarah does. And um when the Sarah has always been independent and it's an independent organization and it's best that it stay that way. And then the city of ORM is uh like a partner and we support and work with. Uh but there have been times when that relationship has been a little rocky and it's been more difficult and what we've tried to do over the last four years is to bring that relationship back to where it needed to be and to make it really solid and so Bren's worked you know tirelessly with Adam just to merge that together bring that together. So, I would say that right now the relationship with ORM and the Sarah is in the best place it's ever been and I would encourage the council to keep it that way and just keep that growing because it's a it's a fantastic relationship.

Thank you, Adam.

Thank you. Yeah, I I uh I will tell you I've been at Sierra 23 years and we have never had a as good of a relationship with the city of ORM and the staff and the people here than we do now. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Item 8.6, fire safety event recap. Derek Spencer, if you'd like to take us through that. I'm Derek Spencer, the fire division chief over fire prevention. Um, every October we have uh fire prevention week and this commemorates a what's known as the great Chicago fire. It happened in the late 1800s, killed 250 people and left over 100,000 homeless. So, so every year we um do a fire prevention night to provide education and and we try to be a little more entertaining. We go into schools and other groups all the time for education, but this is more of a fun night for us. And you can see in the video that Pete's team put together, we'll show here in a minute. Um, we have a lot of different support from different participants in our that we work with like the hospitals and and I I can't name them all now or I'd forget, but uh if you want to go and show that video, Pete, we'll um talk about it here. There's some good sound with it, too. But you can see there's a lot going on there. Um, in a minute you'll see a fireball, and this is to show what happens if you uh have a cooking fire and you try to put it out with water. Everyone knows you put fire out with water, but if you have a cooking fire and you put it out with water, then then um it really creates a problem. And and this, you know, unfortunately, we've had these fires here in ORM and and other

things. But this night's a good opportunity for us to throw some education, have some fun. Um, we get a lot of donations and and there's one of our restoration companies that showed up and put out fire for us. And there's the cooking fire. That does a lot of damage to your cabinets. Don't put water on grease. And it's, you know, it's not intuitive. You know, we all know we have fire hydrants and fire trucks with a lot of water. You can see there's a lot of energy there. Uh we had a lot of help from other departments in the city and we certainly couldn't have done it without them. It wasn't an ORM fire department alone show by any means and we appreciate your support, selected officials and the city management support. Do you have any questions or comments, concerns from the big fireball? I don't think we lost any eyebrows, but Okay. No, nothing really. Just you guys also do a fabulous job.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, next up we've got item nine, uh, personal appearances. And I don't know if this is a first. Probably not. There's been a couple, but there's no personal appearances. So, we'll move on. Uh, item 10, consent items. We've got uh item 10.1, an approval of the meeting minutes for September 9th, 2025 and September 23rd, 2025. Uh item 10.2, an approval of the 2026 city council schedule. Item 10.3, an appointment of the neighborhood to to the neighborhood advisory commission of Jayce Anderson, Lisa Leser, Laurel Martinson, Deb Beaton, Cheryl Radmull, Steve White, and Court Kendrick. Item 10.4, a resolution for the CDBG participation plan. And item 10.5, an ordinance approving local limits for wastewater. Would somebody like to make a motion on these items? Sure. I'll make a motion that we approve the consent items.

I'll second. I I I I I I the consent items are I Sorry, mayor. Thanks. I Okay, I didn't I didn't realize Chris was on there. Okay. Thank you, Chris. Okay. The consent items pass. Mayor question. Are any of the people that were just appointed to the neighborhood commission? Are any of them here this evening by chance? Maybe we could recognize. Yeah, if you'd like to stand up if you're L if you can introduce. Yeah. So, we got Steve White and Lisa Leser and of course we had um well, those are our new appointees, right? Perfect. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Okay, we'll move on to item 11 11.1 a canvas. That's acceptance and certification of the 2025 city of ORM general election. All right. I don't come before you guys very much. So, um it's a little exciting and a little bit scary, but um I am here to talk about the election and um we will be going over the results and then um then we will ask of you guys to um certify the election. So, there's a couple of forms that you have. Um, one of them is the election stat sheet and the other is the general um, certification form. Um, and then I sent some other ones by email that you can also review. The other one we sent was the county's um, numbers and I've just um, to simplify it for you guys, we've put it in the spreadsheet. So um, we're going to go over a few things. So, for this election, we um we have 45,553 registered voters and 18,835 of those voters um chose to participate in this election, which brought us to 41.35%. Which is up from 2 years ago and also four years ago. So this was um a like a

I guess a more we had more participation than um in some years that we've had uh that we have got the numbers on here. Uh we'll just quickly review uh for mayor Dave Young had 956 Karen McCandless had 9,574. Quinn Mikum had 9,474. Crystal Mulestein had 9,12. Doyle Mortimer had 8,628. Angel Molton had 8,57. Len Millet had 9,077 and David M. Spencer had 8,789. Um we had 96 um votes for our uh write in Truman Vancot and then there were 99 um uncertified write-ins which means they either check the box, didn't write anything or wrote a name that was not certified. Um so that's where the difference. know if they write a name that's not certified and vote for three council members, does that invalidate their ballot?

I don't know, but I would think so because I think you could voters do the three. Um, so um they have no counts for city council. So hopefully they were very trying to be funny and put because I was there they had some Mickey Mouse and stuff like that, you know. So then they're they just canceled everything.

They may have canled all of their city council. If they had done three and the write in. If they did it the correct way, they can still be funny but and only picked two or less. Then they would have been I mean they would have just that one wouldn't have counted. The others would have. So um you know there's a chance that happened. So we're going to go over some of the stats because um we have some regulations that we have to do in our Canvas. Um so as we talked about the active voters there were 45,553 and then um kind of a new rule is that we have to break down how they are classified either as public voters, private voters, withheld voters and that has to do with the information that is provided um about the voter. So public voters um they allow a certain amount of general information that is given out and it's just public. There was 16,734 of those. Private voters, there were 22,33. Um the private voters have them withheld, but there are certain groups that can get that information. that would be um you know people running for office their um like their campaign they can ask for some of those and it does give them a little bit more information. Um I think the idea is so that you can reach out um and you know be able to send them information about the candidates and things like that. And then withheld voters are kind of a smaller group. It's 6516. It is a group that you have to be accepted into. It's usually um people that maybe need to keep their information private for like um safety reasons or um they may have a job that

um certain things need to be kept private. And so um that process is determined by the state. So of the So now they're going to break down how the voting worked from the mail melon ballot. So, people who mailed their ballots in, 46,114 voted that way. There were 411 um correction, 46,000 had their ballots mailed to them. They didn't vote it. Most many of them didn't vote.

Oh, yes. They were they were sent. Correct. And then of those 411 um I think were on a do not mail list. So, those ballots probably didn't get where they needed to go. Um, or they asked not to have their ballots sent. Um, the ballots counted actually is 18,541, which was 98.44% of the ballots cast. Um, there were some ballots that were not accepted. 333 and these are for ORUM. Um they're they on the county website or the state website they do have them for the some of that information for the county but these are specific to OR. There were um so there was 333 that were not accepted. 14 of them were unsigned. Um 147 the signatures did not match the voting voter record. Empty envelopes there were none. return pass deadline were 172 and then there was no others. I have a question if the if uh it was because the signature did not match the voter record. Was the voter informed? Yes. So that will be part of um the let's see signature not m yeah so it should be part of the um cured ones. So then they would reach out and have them try to either come in with ID or there's different ways that they can get you to validate um because there are times that your signature may look different um from the electronically sent ballots. So these are we call them yukava. They're kind of the ones you send um overseas or if somebody um has a disability and it would be difficult them to either vote by mail or to come in and vote um they can sign up for

these. there were 118 sent and 32 of those um were voted. So that's.17 of the ballots. And then um there were no uh none of those ballots of the 32 that came back um that were not accepted. They all were accepted. 243 people voted in person either in early voting or election day. So that's 1.20 20 1.29% of the ballots and then of the total challenge there was 460. So 299 of them were cured which means they were able to verify who that they are who they say they are and those ballots counted and then there was 161 that they were not able to verify. So either they couldn't get a hold of the person or they didn't respond. um provisional ballots. There were 25 issued and 19 counted and um 12 of them had did had to did did same day registration. So they became voters at that point. Of those 12 that were not count, let's see, of the six that were not accepted, one was they had already voted and maybe forgot they'd sent it in. one was an incomplete information on the form and four um did not provide the adequate proof of um residency. So that's why those didn't voted. So the total B um ballot count came to one 18,835 which is a 41.35% turnout. Um, the other thing that is new this year that they are doing that, um, I need to inform you guys about is it's called the public cast vote record. Um, and what it is, it's a spreadsheet of

every single vote and how they voted. And each vote is um, assigned a number so that it's still private as to how you voted, but it shows how every person voted. So, if you wanted to and had a lot of free time on your hands, you could go through it and you can tally those votes um the same way kind of like the county does. Um because it's the entire county, it's like a humongous spreadsheet. So, what we will do is tomorrow we will post that on our website. It'll probably also be found on the state website so that that is um accessible to the public. We just wanted to make you aware that that will be um on on our website for um review for um citizens to

do you break that out or is is that the entire state or it's the entire county. So the way you um So is there a breakout for ORM on that or is it just the county?

Um it hasn't been broken out. It's the way that it is it's it's like a big long list. So, it is downloadable as a spreadsheet and you could like take out um know the columns that are not ORM, but then you'd have to go through and just find all the lines. If it's blank, then it wasn't ORM. And then ORM's votes cuz it doesn't say like which precinct or anything. It just has a number and then it would be like this, you know, their first their three votes are like, you know, or for mayor it would be whichever one of the two they voted for city council it would list the three people that they voted for or if they voted less. So,

but does it show for is there a way to break it out so you can just see or voters? You have to literally go in and delete the lives because it's run by the number voter like how they came in as a vote. It's not broken up. So it's like but so it's this massive spreadsheet but then they are identified as ORM.

Um yeah. So they'll you'll know it's ORM because it will only under the ORM columns there'll be names but it's not I mean we could break it out but it would probably take like we'd probably have to post what we have and then break it out later because it would take like manually going through and taking out the lines that are not. So they didn't they didn't give it to us as each city. They just gave it to us as a county. So it's candidate names is what you're saying. Yes. So it would say like a number 118 and it would say, you know, like mayor Dave Leong or Dave Young, Len Elld, but it should work out to where you have 18,541 lines.

Well, uh, balance. Yes, [clears throat] it should work out because if you're doing it kind of depends like I guess if you only voted

I mean the I mean but it should match according to them. If they did it right then it should match exactly the numbers that are on here. So you would you would expect Dave to if you counted them out to be the exact same number as is on this report. So but it will be on there available and I can work on getting them out. I just probably wouldn't have them ready by tomorrow. Um, so, you know, it's just it would take a few days, but we could get that out there if we wanted. Um, do you guys have any questions? Oh, I guess I shouldn't officially announce that be with the numbers. Um, the election results are Mayor Karen McCandless, city council Quinn Mikum, Crystal Mulestein, Len Millet, and now do you have any questions? I forgot that was the last part. Okay. Um, we just want to thank everybody who ran. We understand that um, it's u a big ask of our citizens and we also congratulate the winners. Thank you. Oh, yeah. I guess I just want to clarify too because there's been some questions on this. I've had a number of people reach out to me and and just to clarify, so when we certify the canvas, we're basically certifying everything you just told us. And and we're we're not certifying um if there's any other questions in the election or things that need to be looked in. We're not certifying any of that. That's separate.

Yes. You're certifying the numbers, right? um that have been reported not beyond that. Right.

May I'd like to make a motion. I move to accept and certify the 2025 city of OR municipal general election results. Second. I I I I I I I Okay, election results are certified. Thank you.

We're up to item 11.2, two, a public hearing on the resolution for fiscal year 2025 2026 budget amendments. Our chief financial officer Brandon Nelson.

Thank you, Mayor. It is on, right? All right. Uh all right. Our first uh budget amendments of the the new fiscal year. uh as we we come together usually uh uh three or four times during the year depending on uh what things we have going on to make uh budget amendments as uh operations change throughout the year particularly in relation to grants and donations but uh obviously there are other things as well. Um so first off just like to uh thank you for your participation as you uh uh work with these um and ask uh have interest in in any of them. So, uh, first off, uh, items noted with a a one u, those are the ones historically that, uh, we've talked about that are on here every every time, uh, related to those grants and, uh, donations that are received by the city. Uh, of note, the ones I want to particularly, uh, identify and just, uh, note on here are some of the larger ones, particularly down here. Too fast. Right. So, right in here, uh, we received a municipal recreation grant, uh, of $228,000. Um, though that grant, uh, will be used, uh, for the competition pool and deck refurbishing. Um, so that's why we received that grant as part of uh, uh, from the county. And then other one I I which I'm sure you you might look at and you might go what is right here the ORM foundation which is related to the gold star memorial which you can see down here. Um no that is not all of the funds that we've received for that. That's kind of a cleanup item from the prior fiscal year. uh we will the next time we uh meet for our budget amendments there

will be some uh much much bigger dollar items in relation to that amendment at that time. Uh honestly we've just uh with the audit and everything else we've kind of fallen behind and paying attention to the foundation as far as getting the money from the foundation to the city to be able to um cover those costs. So but that will be coming. Um item number two, which you can see right here, uh our 2021 uh water, sewer, and storm water bonds, uh we have actually just finally completed spending all of that money. And so the last item in relation to uh closing out uh spending all of the funds related to that is the uh interest earnings that have been earned over about the last 6 months or so. So that item will do that. and then those bonds will basically be completed. Um then right above that number three our new bond that we issued back in July of 2024. Uh the sales tax revenue bonds that are for the fire training facility and our um improvements renovations over at the public safety building. Um those are the interest earnings uh that we have received also kind of during that same time period that kind of April Mayish uh to current. Um and so so that gets added to those as available to spend towards those public safety projects. Um number four, are there any questions through those three? Great. Number four, I don't remember where. There it is. Number four, um in our senior citizens fund, um we have uh some needs there um in relation to uh funding uh some supplies in the kitchen. Uh a kitchen plumbing uh issue that arose that we need to take care of as well as some hot

water and air handler coil uh issues. And so those uh the funds, two of those are coming from surplus funds of the senior citizens fund to be able to pay for those. Um and and so those are kind of somewhat emergency items that have come up um as operations there continue. number five [sighs] right here. Um, our uh task force uh had some uh see I remember my got to remember my notes. Uh oh. Yeah. So, they had some a finalized budget that had um when we do the original budget, we're just guesstimating as to what those are going to be. When the task force finally uh finalized their budget, then there was an adjustment to the participation fund revenues that they um had uh agreed upon amongst all the chiefs. And so this adjusts for for those that additional those additional funds. Uh number six, which I think was up here. Um so we also uh identified a an ambulance that uh we are in essence kind of uh on the trying to test out with Vineyard in relation to um a non-standard uh ambulance that we have. And so we identified funds that we had received u from insurance a couple of insurance settlements on some uh vehicles that had uh previously either been wrecked or I believe part of it was also some remaining funds from the uh fire engine that caught fire. monies that is um and so this uh we've pulled those money those sorry very Derek

um uh so we pulled those funds we it's been saving those funds and now using them for uh this purpose [snorts] uh item number seven uh the police uh we act as a holder of the funds in relation to the public order unit which um for uh things that they uh purch purchased in relation to kind of a mass gathering um equipment. Um and so uh we've received some fees in relation to the various um entities in the county um for that the purpose of some of the items that they need to buy. [snorts] Then number eight um down in development fees uh let's see I got to remember what that one was. Is that a vehicle? Is that which one? Oh yeah. So we had uh a transfer of an asset and in order to cover the the cost of that asset that uh we were transferring uh that we had to make uh some budget amendments to uh make make that transfer happen for that particular asset. And the last item up here at the top uh library hall we have visiting artists that come periodically and sell product. Um, and so, uh, we collect the monies on those sales and then remit whatever portion, uh, it is that goes to the artist, uh, out of the expenditure account that was tied to this, uh, revenue source. And so those are all the items that, uh, we have in the, uh, budget amendments for this particular time frame. Are there any questions about any of those? Mayor, I move to approve by resolution the fiscal year 2025 2026 budget amendments.

Second. I I I I I I I The resolution's approved. Thank you, Brandon. Okay, next up we've got Oh, you know it says public hearing Steve. Steve. So, okay. Yeah. Sorry. We don't think we did open it up to the public, did we? We didn't. Brandon, come on back. Tom Tom got carried away.

Had to wake these men up. [laughter] Good catch. I did say I and then I was like, wait a minute. Okay, we're down to like seven people. Do any of you want Let me open this up for a public hearing if there's anyone that has any comments about Brandon's presentation. Okay, this is your last chance. [snorts] Okay, I'm going to close the public hearing. Take two. And [clears throat] I move we approve by resolution the fiscal year 2025 second. It went off halfway but I

Oh, you were asking for eyes yet or I didn't hear a second. We're asking for I second. Okay. Okay. We are really getting bad here at the end of Jeff. Well, the mics turn off automatically. Okay. We'll start with Dave. I I I I I I I thank you. I thank you. The resolution passes again. Thank you.

All right. Now we'll move to item 13, city manager information items. Bren,

just one little quick item. So, in addition to lights on next week on Thursday, you would have gotten an an email. Just want to make sure you know as the council you're invited to the employee Christmas party. It's at the Sierra again this year. There's two options. So, please feel welcome. And there's also um a a heavily discounted rate if you want to bring some of your family members as well. So, if you had a have a chance, take a look at that email and add it to your calendar. Thank you, Bren. Okay. Would someone We're going to adjourn. Uh would someone like to make a motion to adjurnn?

Well, I move we adjourn this meeting. Second. I I I I I I this Thank you.