Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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Okay. I think they do ask It's working. Wow. Test it again. Yeah. You should be good now. Except for the echo. I'm I'm turning it down. Why you have it turned up? It's a bit outside. I didn't turn up. It comes on like full blast. Testing. Yeah, I think that's a little bit better. Okay. All right. You ready? Thank you. Great. Okay, you can resume. Thank you. We will call the meeting to order. Thank you. And the first item is roll call.

Van Campen here. Bumo here. Molzan here. Meer here. Smith here. Pa here. Nelson here. And Schnelli here. Thank you. Next item, approval of minutes of December 4th, 2025. Do we have a motion to approve? So moved. A motion. Have a second. Second. Have a second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Next item. Uh public appearances. Just a minute. Are you here for a specific uh item? Yes. I wasn't. Yeah. Go ahead.

Here's the reason I'm asked the question. Do I have to read that entire I [clears throat] don't I can read the statement. We got one person. Come on up. Let us know what it's about. I've heard it before. So, [laughter] thank you.

I'm Ann Michaels and I live at 630 Southwoods Edge Drive. So, I'm here as a representative of the village, but I'm also representative as founder and executive director of Green Pastures Living, a nonprofit organization working to provide affordable and accessible senior housing in Dane County area and beyond. Um, I'm also a participant of the Badger State Housing Alliance. I feel like there's an echo. Okay, she's she's working on it.

Okay. Okay. As well as um towns makers where we um kind of small infill we meet in Madison working um through AAP and things like that just how to creatively figure out um the housing um problems. And so I wanted to just share with you um some of the things that have come um up with the challenges of having um working to figure out how to do affordable housing because here in Dane County we have really expensive land and we have some zoning challenges and some of those just seem like mountains we just can't get around. But I feel like especially with towns makers, we have really seen how local change can really figure out how we can make some um waves in finding ways to make houses more affordable. Um so I'm here to kind of talk on, you know, as you start the discussion on ADUs. Um that's why I'm here, but I figured since you're just discussing it, I would just speak here now. And so just like what can we do among the changes and I wanted to I take notes because I forget words. Um figure out how can we transform this narrative of housing challenges and some ways to do that is when you're considering the changes to the zoning of ADUs. Um because really what I hope to work on is the missing middle. Uh we really um hope to figure out how can we keep seniors and their families um in the communities they've lived in. I've talked to many residents who say, "I've lived here 30, 40, 50 years and I can't afford to stay here sustainably." Um and

I think ADUs can be a tool we can use to make that possible. and just kind of wanted to talk about three different ways um you can consider um in your changing of ADUs um to make things more available that currently aren't. Uh, three of them are, you know, having it attached, um, having it over owner occupied and having non-related people. Oh, there's a fourth. And changing the square footage and just showing that in kind of three different ways that it can be. Um, one is, uh, these are all real life. I just won't say who they are, but you know, I've had, um, older couples come to me and say, "Well, we have this lifetime home." Um, but we have some space where we've wanted to um have it detached so we can have a little space between our our daughter who's going to take over our house. Um, but we want to build a smaller accessible home um next on our lot. Um, but they couldn't do that. Um, and so having that zoning being permissive would give them a chance so that they can stay in a supported nearby but not too close house. Um, so that's just an example of how considering um having detached ADUs can open up more opportunities for people to remain living um on their property. And then I go on to owner occupied. And there is a young family that um came to me and saying,"Well, we um have this house that has a lot that could have ADU, but um we don't really have like family that we need, you know, to support right yet, but we would like to have an ADU in our backyard so that

we can rent out to have a little extra income and also support um maybe [clears throat] uh an older person who may want to have that accessibility um and be able to rent that out. And so that's an example where having an unrelated person um makes it just gentle density increasing yet a possibility to have it supported. And I have a personal story where that actually happened to me. Um I grew up um not having grandparents, but my neighbors next door were kind of my adopted grandparents. And so we have that relationship of supporting each other um as unrelated people but in community to keep them um you know supported and they were my grandparents all up until um uh she passed away at 97 and she was she called me the day before she died saying thank you so much for being that family to me. Um, and so that um is just a way that I want you to consider in your changes how a small town can support each other um and increase housing density. I would also consider um the adding more square footage even um I think Sonia even recommended um up to 120 square feet. Um, I think Madison is maybe a thousand or 900. Um, I think Oregon's currently 650. And just knowing, you know, I love tiny houses and ADUs, but their challenge is always the accessibility as well. And so having a a bigger square footage allowance actually gives you more um accessible turnarounds um just in the planning of a a one on onetory square footage ADU. And um yeah, so just considering those

um changes to the ADU can just really offer a lot of um possibilities. How am I doing on time? I feel like I talk forever, but I think we have a lot of people that are worrying, so Oh, okay. It's it's supposed to be three minutes, but Oh, three minutes. Let's let you finish what you want to say. Yes. Okay.

Thank you. Um but also just being on our towns makers, we just currently in our last couple um sessions um took the the changes that Madison just did to its ADUs and like okay let's see as small developers if we could pick a lot and see with the allowances that Madison just did, could we even make the numbers work on the ADUs? And so I bring that up to say the numbers didn't work because even in the changes that they thought were beneficial um to the ADUs, we couldn't get the numbers to work because Madison had um a large impact fee um as well as like some sewer and setbacks that like just made it prohibitive cost prohibitive to even try to do an ADU. And I know some ADUs aren't necessarily affordable, you know, but I feel like in a way you can be intentional in how you are changing the code to make it um more um possible to empower our Oregon residents to remain supported and sustainable living here. Thank you.

Thank you. I suspect you'd be here again. Why? I live here. Thank you. Thank you. I move on to new business then review and possible approval of an SIP plan for the new lift station at 109 and 131 West Richards Road applicants village of Oregon. Just a reminder for folks we tabled this last time you all approved the CSM and the GDP and then just coming back with some changes. So I'll let Ben walk us through those. Perfect. Hi everyone. All right. If you want to go to the site plan to begin with, Lauren or Elise, whoever's driving.

I'm driving.

Uh, so we have updated site plans and renderings uh from our discussions back in December. Uh, just to hit on um kind of what has changed and what what we've addressed. Uh so the from a site plan standpoint you'll see the only thing that's really different at this point is we have added shrubbery along the uh north side of the site. Uh there were a couple other specific site plan related comments that came from this committee or commission and uh those were reviewed uh with staff and actually uh Alise if you want to go down to the renderings that might provide a better ability to see those. uh and actually go to the next one. So this I guess I'll just talk through them as we go down. This is a view uh from the north as you come down Main Street. Uh so behind almost where the mouse is, you can see where the shrubbery would be and the relative heights for the uh infrastructure that is behind them. Um scroll down one more. Um as we look at this part of the site, we did update the renderings to better show. So, one of the comments uh previously received was the amount of space on what in this view is our side of the generator which is the smaller longer uh yep that unit. Um and as you can see that is being built on top of the old Richard's road lift station. Uh the foundation of which is shown in an elevated format now. Uh so after discussions with staff accessibility to that was important. uh wanted to maintain five feet of walking space around that without a tripping hazard. So, we have a five- foot sidewalk adjacent to the old foundation. We're not cutting out the old foundation of that lift station. Another comment uh two comments related to um grass or use of grass and use of pearl within the space. Again, after discussions with

staff and serviceability, they prefer not to incorporate those items. Uh but we also do show now uh the intent would be to paint the ballards a different color so that it is a more natural color as opposed to last time we saw it with yellow so it's not quite so standoffish. Um as well as you can now see uh it renders with a starry night. That is not a formal selection so far. The intention is uh that the Oregon art committee uh will I believe have a competition to or some sort of a thing to select a art but the intention then would be to wrap both the generator and the valve enclosure uh that is the unit in back. Um, we also have the uh generator rotated 180 degrees, so the gas service isn't in the public facing side of things, I believe. Yeah, you can just scroll through the rest of them as well. Um, couple things that were important as we also talked with uh Tom Dorne uh that uh we do maintain or improve uh the sightelines there. So it was very important to him that we select shrubbery uh that does not further impede that corner. Uh so that is going to be an arborite style shrub uh but a limited height growth uh item. Lauren, did I miss anything with that description? All right. So happy to answer questions about the lift station, take comments, etc.

Anybody? Oh, Patrick,

I I appreciate everything you've done. Okay. The shrubbery looks good. The wraps in theory look great. Uh I still have a hangup on the concrete. I understand why you want it. Here are my concerns. Number one is uh an impermeable surface, right? So, we're adding to runoff a little bit more. Um, number two, my main concern is that kids are going to play there, that they're going to take scooters and skateboards, and I'm just worried about them getting injured. Uh, and then again, I think looking at pavers or some type of alternative solution could potentially be less costly. I don't know on that. So, those are the three reasons why I don't like concrete. So, I don't know if you have any comments to that, but

I guess ultimately it it come down to it's a it's a similar arrangement to what's there. I can't disagree with you from an impervious surface standpoint, though it is a limited amount of space. Uh pavers would be more expensive. We have bid those side by side before. So, and yeah, a paver with some sort of an in between to make an improvement. Okay. I know part of the space is currently parking lot for

Yeah. So, there's We are actually taking a couple stalls. So, it's not all new impervious surface there. Uh we we the village acquired property from Dorne. Uh that includes [snorts] three or four stalls, I think it is. You can tell on the site plan if you look at that. Anybody else? [clears throat] I think Go ahead.

Um I agree with Patrick. everything that you've said is an improvement over what we had presented. I think that um for me the biggest benefit um beyond the landscaping was the fact that you changed the color of the ballards. I think that was huge. You know, if I'm 30 feet into a site, last thing I need to do is have an insult with a big old yellow ballard. Yeah, I know I'm going to hit it. Y

um so uh so I'm glad that you were able to change that color a little bit. Um, I guess my question is, can you go into what the difference is between um a crushed granite um versus a a poured concrete might be instead of, you know, I understand pearl, you get into it, it gets rough, you dig into it, it's never level, it it packs, but it doesn't really pack. Um, like a crushed granite is a nice walkable surface that um compacts well um is semi-perviousish um and it's a lot softer than a hard concrete surface. Um is there any opportunity to maybe swap out some of those surfaces from a poured concrete to a crushed granite option? I think the the ultimate answer there is just serviceability by village staff. you know, they're plowing, they're shoveling this in the winter, they're maintaining it, and there is a strong preference by them to not uh go to some sort of an impervious surface like that.

So, the intention is to shovel and Oh, yeah. That's going to be a fully accessed site year round. Yeah, it has to be. Yep. Okay. Wasn't aware of that. Sure. Okay. Sorry about that. Okay.

All right. That that answers the good good question then. So, thank you. Anybody else? Elise has a some comments here, you know, about the flexibility of uh setbacks, etc. And then there's also down in [clears throat] the under her recommendation for approval is the recording of a certified survey map uh to combine the two prop or the two addresses, I guess. So, those are all part of a motion if we have that or you can incorporate into it. So if anybody wants to make a motion to approve or I can see what's the recommendation [snorts] to the village board right or no

station I saw I'm sorry approval of the SIP plan for the new lift station with the um comments made by lease in her memo. So move. We have a motion. We have a second. Second. I have a second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you.

Okay, we'll move on to item uh 6B, review and possible approval of resolution number 26-01 recommend recommend the adoption of a public participation plan for a comprehensive plan amendment.

All right. So, a couple months ago, we had um actually I think I ended up representing Hillrest Bible Church because we were moving them meeting along so quickly they didn't make it in time. But um Hillrest is planning on annexing about 2 and a half acres of farmland just to the east of their property on um East Netherwood Road on the other side of 14. So, um part of that process is um currently that land is shown as agg in our future land use map and it's going to be moved to institutional. the the plan for that property is to be part of a it'll be combined with the larger Hillrest Bible Church parcel. Um that portion will be u a new parking lot and then we'll be seeing later on probably later this year an expansion to their church. So a site planner vision um and the parking lot is to support the larger um square footage and an expanded use of the church. So, um, comp plan to get that piece of property moved into institutional. It'll obviously be contingent upon annexation. So, we're hoping we can kind of line up all of these, um, approvals probably later in February or March at the board, but um, if you haven't been here for public or for a comp plan amendment, it's been a little while. We haven't done one with our new comp plan yet, so that's a good thing. Uh, we we did a good job with those future land use categories. So this is our first one. But we do need to do an updated public participation plan that basically just um outlines um that people can participate at this public hearing which will be the next planning commission meeting. It'll be a joint meeting with village board. Um so come and hear the presentation. Um you all will vote to potentially recommend it to the village board and then at their later February meeting that'll likely be on their agenda as well. So, um, this is just part of the process when we do a comp plan amendment. So, um, have that

resolution for you all and just kind of explains [snorts] why we reach out to the public, letters have been sent, things like that already to neighbors and neighboring municipalities for the comp plan amendment. Okay. Anybody have any questions about that? Is this the only proposed change to the comp plan? There's not any other cleanup items or anything on your list? Not that we found right now. All right. Pretty straightforward. Okay. We need a motion uh approval of the resolution 20 number 2601 recommending the adoption of a public participation plan for comprehensive plan amendment. So moved. Motion. We have a second.

Second. We have a second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. And that again will be uh at our next plan commission meeting which will be combined meeting with the village board on the 5th of February. Okay. Moving along to item six C for discussion only. Um conversation regarding potential zoning text amendments. Reason is accessory dwelling units ADUs.

All right. So, um, probably towards the end of the summer, early fall, I brought to you all a list of potential zoning text amendments now that we've moved on from chickens and bees and metal fasteners. Uh, we can we can get to other things. So, um, you all just give me the direction of whatever we want to tackle first. Let's let's just take them one at a time. So, um, edus, accessory dwelling units, also known as granny flats, tiny homes, um, backyard cottages, all those things, um, has been a a topic that comes up actually quite frequently with questions from neighbors. I would say, you know, probably a handful of questions a year about is the village going to make any changes here? Um, you know, explaining different situations. a lot of um properties, especially in older neighborhoods of the village, that are large lots that might have a carriage house, might have a large um garage space. A lot of times it's family situations, you know, um children coming home from college and kind of wanting to have them close and give them a little bit of their own space and a head start on, you know, their first place to live or older family members that want to live on site. Um, sometimes it's folks looking to expand their income and wanting to have some kind of a short-term rental option um on their property or u just add to the housing stock. You know, maybe they would like to move to a tiny house, they want to stay in their neighborhood, they would maybe rent out a larger house. So, a lot of different situations and a lot of folks have been kind of waiting for us to to tackle this. So, I reached out to Sonia at Vanal just to have us have a memo put together about u what do we currently have on our books uh what other communities have and just sort of what are the topic categories that different communities kind of get into how do they vary uh we don't have to get into all of we can have as much discussion as you want tonight um or you take some time to read this over and we can revisit but I

figured since we had a lighter agenda I would at least get this in front of you so um I won't read this all, but she just describes a little bit about what are ADUs. Here's a graphic kind of describing there's, you know, different types. Some are attached to homes, some are detached, above garages, basement, um, units, things like that. Um, currently we have something called an ARU, an accessory residential unit or granny flat. Um, this is only allowed in our SR6 zoning district, which is a single family zoning district, small lot. They're typically um we only have a couple areas that are these, but usually condos or alley loaded units. So like the um the narrower lots off Peterson Trail across from the park, those are SR6. Um the condos near Heidiway, Charles Court, those are SR6. Um I believe it was sort of intended for um units that would have maybe a separate garage but an apartment above. Um I don't believe there's anything that's actually built like this in that zoning district um anywhere in the village just because you know the houses weren't designed with that you know space kind of envisioned. So we do have some language already here. Again it hasn't really been applied but yeah there's references to you know limit you know only up to 640 square ft or it needs to be um you know just for one to two people. um different you know connections to the road frontage um how things are metered things like that. Um we do also have something called an inf family suite which also [clears throat] I've heard called mother-in-law suites or just attached unit. So a separate you know maybe wing of the house that is still attached through a living area um to the house but can have its own you know kitchen laundry um kind of function

as a little apartment. So those are allowed in um pretty much every residential single family residential zoning district as a secondary use. Um so there's some language there about that. Um she just shows us um here what's allowed in each um of the residential zoning districts either by right or or not at all. The comp plan obviously there's a lot of goals that are touched here from housing affordability to different housing types. Um, edus are often kind of touted as a way to add density to a community without changing the character of a neighborhood. Um, they're often not very visible and usually because of the cost of construction and, you know, impact fees and other things. Um, I think a lot of communities have sought it as an affordable housing solution, but um, they don't end up being that affordable. It's essentially like building a small house. And um I think there's different ways that I've seen there's land use trusts and other things that maybe there's a company you can you know rent out space land in your on your lot and they'll do all the building they'll do all the you know rental management things like that. That's I've seen that in larger cities. Um but typically it's just a homeowner pursuing this and and whether it's for a rental property or for a family member or something like that. So, they're usually not um many. I think Sonia told me since Madison did their update a couple of years ago, there's only been I think she said

49.

Yeah, not too. Yeah, not not many. I think they were expecting more. Um so, can just kind of going through some of the um what should be evaluated. Um, so housing costs, neighborhood character, environmental considerations, um, a lot of pros here as far as I'm seeing, but again, how do we make the successful? If we really want to see this as a potential housing solution in the village, what are some barriers we can cut down to allow more flexibility? Um, maybe make them a little bit more affordable and and straightforward in the permitting process. There are other communities too that have a um approved kind of pre-approved [music] blueprints for edu. So if people are interested in doing this, they might have a couple of different units and say, you know, these meet all of our requirements. There's maybe a variety of different square feet um options or something like that. But another way to um maybe reduce the barrier and provide um those plans for residents if they want to take advantage of that. So, um, these are kind of the buckets of different, uh, details of ADU or ordinances or or sections of a code that most communities get into. So, which zoning districts are they allowed in? Um, is owner occupancy required either of the principal, the main home, or the ADU? Um, allowing either is generally recommended to provide flexibility. So sometimes again those homeowners want to stay on the site but they're they're comfortable living in that smaller space maybe a newer more accessible space. Um setbacks um sometimes it's just treated as accessory structures. So you know we currently have 5T from side and rear property lines for accessory structures like sheds or detached garages. So are we comfortable with that? Do we want to

see more setbacks? um size and square footage, height, parking requirements, um different design standards, um and then utilities addressing. Uh another thing to note is I believe quite a few of the newer neighborhoods in the village probably in their covenants deed restrictions would be prohibiting detaching. And so that's obviously a portion of the village, but um you know, we can only have control over our code if there are restrictions that are above and beyond what the village requires. And that's you know, up to each neighborhood and an HOA to be enforcing um or or dictating. So um there is some um there are some pending state bills around ADUs. um it is very pro- ADU. So if the bill advances, I know that they're still working a lot of the language, but um it would require that local governments cannot ban ADUs. So I don't think we're likely moving in that direction, but just wanted to let you know we're keeping an eye on that assembly bill. Um and then she provides some different examples. um city of Middleton and Madison here um with some of their language and then a table. We did something similar when we were doing the chickens and bees for some of our neighboring communities. But um what do they call it? What's permitted or is it conditional? Um the owner occupancy question how they handle that. um if they limit number of people or number of families, the size limit, any um parking rules, uh requirements or not required at all. And then um kind of other notes about design. So just kind of a [music] comparison, but um again, not sure how much you all want [snorts] to kind of

discuss this or if you want to digest and do a little bit of digging. Um, I haven't done enough reading on this yet myself to kind of come forward with recommendations, but I can certainly do that at an upcoming meeting and and come with a set of what I think would be appropriate for Oregon and then get your reactions to that. But guess if there's any of these topics that you really feel like you either want to dig into or you want to take more of a hands-off approach. Um, communities have have been all over the map as far as how in the weeds they want to get with ADUs or if they leave it pretty open-ended. So, just kind of curious about what you care about related to this topic, if anything, and if you'd like to um I guess how you'd like to move forward.

Look to you guys. What do you think? Um, it's I don't know how much of you've read Have you read this? I have read the whole thing, so I apologize. I did read the whole Of course you did. I know you. Um, I thought Sonia did a very nice job kind of summarizing it. I thought the the table was the appendix was the most helpful. Uh, I was shocked that Madison has only had 49 units. I don't I don't remember the time frame, but I would have expected more. Um, from the appendix, I agreed most with the APA best practices. I'm assuming that's American Planners Association. American Planning Association.

Yeah. So, I agreed with just about everything uh that they suggested. Um, I like the there's some language on page 27 about I think it's from Middleton's on their architectural language. Uh the accessory building must often be architecturally and aesthetically compatible with the principal dwelling. [clears throat] Personally, I prefer that we be as flexible as possible [clears throat] uh in what we write. Having said that, I wouldn't want us to reduce any setback requirements. I think that's um heading into some dangerous territory. Um, and then one thought as you were talking about how do you encourage this is could we be flexible in reducing our fees or building permit fees for

ADUs.

Um, I guess the closest example that we have on the books is for um affordable housing. There's an ability for affordable housing developers to request a waiver for impact fees. Um, so park impact fee, library impact fee, if there's a park, park improvement, park acquisition, kind of depends on what's applicable, but um, and obviously those are per unit. So if you're doing, you know, a multif family unit, that that adds up quite a bit. Um, I don't believe we've had actually had anybody request that um, yet, but that is in the code. Um, so, um, we can definitely have a conversation with the village attorney to see if there's something related to is it ADU specific or does it have to meet any kind of affordability, you know, details to to qualify for that, but that could be one avenue. Impact fees are pretty, you know, substantial per unit. So, um, depending on the fees, it's usually I think all those fees are between like 800 a unit and be 1,600 a unit. So, um, and there could be up to three impact fees. Um, so that could be one thing. Building permit fees as well. Um, we just updated our building permit application. A lot of it was based on square footage. So, um hopefully the fee overall would be inherently less, but I can certainly look into what fees is it just impact fees or others that could be um waved or reduced for ADUs?

What kind of timing do we have on something like this? I mean, is there kind of an idea do we have if we want to address this? What kind of an end date are we looking at possibly? year.

It's well, as we learned, the the other zoning text amendments I thought were lowhanging fruit took us three years. So, [laughter] um I that's why I kind of want to take one one topic at a time. I think, you know, the mistake there was lumping a bunch of things together and obviously there were some hot topics there. So, it's it's up to us how quickly we want to move on this. Um, you know, Vanoval has a lot of experience writing the code and and I don't have a lot of time right now, so I'll probably lean on them to come up with some example language. Um, and then suggest what sections of the code would need to be updated. There's different tables that would need to reflect, you know, zoning districts and things like that, too. So, um, we can move as quickly as we want, but yeah, I probably won't take on another zoning text amendment until we wrap this one up, but I would imagine I mean maybe six months or something by the time we have a couple drafts and then we have to have, you know, an ordinance and a public hearing and all that.

Well, that's that's kind of why I'm asking, but you know, I don't know how much anybody else has knows about this or has comments about it, and you haven't had time to really look at that much at this point. So is it something that we can I don't want to kick things down the road. However, we want to make the the time we have useful instead of just talking a lot about stuff. Y um how what you feel is what you all think. I this this topic is you know very uh very forefront in in my industry and you know across the country and you know in the

trade journals and things like that. It it's you know it's it's an old idea that's come back new again and it makes sense for a lot of the reasons. Uh I was fascinated with Sonia's uh kind of summary of things and surprised that neighboring communities weren't more [clears throat] uh up to date with this because it is it is a you know hot topic. Um you know we we we have plenty of staff resources, our our consultant resources and our commission. I mean, this this should be right up our uh our alley to tackle this and make a an ordinance that makes sense, you know, to see this in Oregon. So, I'm fully in favor of it.

I am too. I think this is a a good topic at a good time for us. Um and I think that um what we need to do is figure out it's sort of a two-headed monster in my mind. we've got um how do we develop existing conditions and the other head of the monster is how do we develop for future development or how do we plan for future development and I think that the difficulty is that if we try to put everything in a box and in an existing condition we're missing out on an opportunity for somebody to make something really kind of special and fun and let's face it quirky. Um so I think that part of the joy um energy that people might get from trying to do this in an existing condition is cut off at the knees because of some regulation ordinance or limitation. So my gut is to tell me if I were to get to a quick answer my gut is to tell me that existing conditions should be like a conditional use where we offer some flexibility a quick proquo kind of thing. Um whereas new construction maybe they start to do something where they write it into a covenants or um language for their own specific zoning as a development um which would offer them flexibility to do that. Um I think that sort of two-headed approach sort of answers the solution of how do we how do we handle existing and how do we handle new in my mind.

Um so So just to clarify, are you thinking like for future subdivisions for example, would that be something that we would be encouraging, requiring, you know, trying to maybe limit subdivisions restricting them? I think that I don't want to give that answer. And the reason why is I think that just like I don't wear the same color clothes you do, I don't think that some subdivisions are going to be for everybody. So I think that we leave that up to each individual development. My my opinion

I think if we wrote a code that was similar to like the best practices here and then have something in that code that says that for existing conditions there's a conditional use type application maybe that that doesn't so the best practices is for new construction if they want to include it in their development or whatever it's there it's a framework for it but then that doesn't you know prohibit somebody from coming back with something that doesn't match but it's it's quirky or it's appropriate. So are we are we are we saying at this point that maybe have VanDeral make some kind of initial suggestions to review? Yeah.

In the meantime we should all review this again. Look at some that is that makes sense to everybody. We could do that but you know I guess keep it moving and but not having VanDeral go to a lot I don't think a great deal of extent because obviously we're going to have comments about it right. Yep.

Yeah. We won't put it in ordinance format or anything like that. sort of a draft, you know, notes and things. I will say just as far as conditional uses, um, since I'm trying to remember what act it was, but since about 2018, conditional use permits have really been discouraged by all of our legal counsel. They don't really have a lot of teeth anymore. And if they meet all the requirements, you don't really have any opportunity to deny them. And it creates another step with the public hearing, creates another application fee. You know, I think depending on where you want to go with it and how much influence you want to have as planning commission on approving these, if there's a way to make the, you know, the process simple and enough um, you know, I guess detail that you all are comfortable with that things can be approved at a staff level or a building permit level. That's another barrier and another fee. Um, and time um, sort of spent. um time is money for for a lot of these different projects and the construction costs, you know, never go down. So, that'd be another thing to really investigate. Do we want to make anything a conditional use permit when we're kind of being discouraged to I think it's act 67. Yeah. To eliminate those where possible and what things we really care about. If they're meeting all those requirements, is there any reason that they can't be approved at more of an administrative level? But that's something we can get into when we look at some example language. And it doesn't have to be a conditional use permit, but something with that type of flexibility. I think maybe

is there a mechanism that allows us that flexibility on the back side? I think that's kind of what I'm after. Allows you as planning commission or allows the village. Well, I I think that I think that it would be nice to be able to review some of these things on a plan commission level. With that being said, I don't want to do a thousand of these a year. Um, so I don't know,

right? I don't think we'll get a thousand. I'll be I'll be in overjoyed if we get, you know, [music] two a year. Um, so I mean, yeah, from a timing perspective, maybe it is just like a some kind of a site plan review or something like that, too. But um you know if if there's a set of requirements and they're meeting them you know is it architectural type review or something like that that you're doing or

well to your point about costs and fees you know we could set up a separate cost structure for this type of development. um where the fee structure is such that instead of having to go through making a name conditional use site plan review we call it ADU I don't know right and it's it's something some nominal fee that um gets buy in from a client or from a customer makes them feel like they have a commitment because they're writing a check for something but it's Not so much that it makes him prohibitive to want to do it.

All right. So, it sounds like you're going to ask Bandy Wall to just kick some ideas our way and we're going to address it hopefully at the next meeting depending again the agenda if the agenda gets really full. Yeah, we'll see how long it takes them to put some language together, but I think we have a lot of good examples from other communities. We're kind of a little I mean not compared to all the Dane County communities, but we're a little late to the game I think nationally. So, we have the benefit of seeing what other communities have written and what's working well and what's not and kind of take the best from all of those.

Good. All right. Thanks. Thank you. Uh there's no other new business. We'll move on to communication miscellaneous business. Uh status of public works public and private development projects. So, on the public side, um we have two projects actually posted for bid today. So, it's going to be a busy January. This kicks off, I think, a um list of four major construction projects that will be posted this month. So, today we have Gryish Park is up and um the Alpine and CC intersection right over there. the signalization and reworking of the intersection. That project is up for bids as well. So, um optimistic January tends to be a pretty good time for bidding. Um and we're we're hoping that we get some good numbers. Um I believe next week the senior center is going to be posted and that'll be a longer bidding period and then a week following that we'll have the intersection at Park and Waterman Street as well. Um, also kind of in the background, but certainly moving ahead is the reconstruction of East Lincoln Street. That is a statemanaged project. So, we did receive funding from the surface transportation urban program. And so, with that, they do actually manage the bidding um, and then the construction inspection. So, I believe their let date for that project along with the rest of the state projects is in early February. So, we'll find out within a month and a half probably where we land on that and then move ahead with that this summer along with all those other projects. Um,

excuse me. I'm sorry. East Lincoln or East Lincoln Street or Road? East Lincoln Street. So, East Lincoln Street between North Main Street and Perry Parkway is getting reconstructed this next year. Yes. Yes. Okay. I used to live there a long time ago. Yeah. We figured that since we did Oak Street last year, we'd just rip the band-aid off and make the school district really hate us for like, you know, just two years and then we'll then we'll leave them alone for a little while. All right. Um, thank you.

I will say because I just kind of teased them, they've been excellent partners on this. We've uh we've really inconvenienced them and um they've been wonderful to work with and uh we have nothing but good things to say about the way they've worked with us on that. Um, I think that's Oh, no. We still got the utilities to cover. So, wastewater treatment project. Um, again, pretty boring, and that's a great thing. It's continuing very well. It's on budget. It is on schedule. Um, they do have the major foundation for the new intake station and preliminary treatment building poured, and they're moving ahead with uh with building that up. They've also got most of the concrete work for the clarifiers and the UV treatment building up as well. Um, as you just heard, the Richard's Road project that will likely start in late 2026, so we still have a ways before that one gets going. U, but that will be the same contractor. It's all under the same contract. The well projects are our last big ones, and those are finishing up. So that's wall three and wall six. Those will both finish up around the end of March. Um well six will be a lot more big construction, visible construction. Well three is kind of a lot of moving pieces but interior to the building's a little bit less visible what's going on there. But those should both be online and ready to go by the end of March um going into spring and summer.

Okay. Thank you. Uh upcoming plan commission meeting dates again Thursday uh February 5th as a joint meeting with the village board and Thursday March 5th and again uh you also have in your packet the planning staff meeting agenda from December 3rd 2025. Is there anything else? U did you have anything for private development? Um, guess you want to talk about any of the subdivisions just what phases? I don't know if there's any update from last month that we Yeah. going into construction.

Yeah. um the former manor, the u main street senior living. Um they're still working with their contractor and the fire department and building inspection to do um some upgrades to the fire suppression system on the twotory side closer to North Main Street. So still some work to be done there um before they can kind of occupancy of that side. They have not started construction yet on the renovation of the one-story wing closer to Soden. um but just spoke with them I think yesterday or the day before. So that's um work still happening inside. I think there's anything any other projects um I'll let you guys know MSP the South Main Street senior project that's due to funding that's going to be a 2027 um construction likely. So I think that's it.

Anything else? Okay, a motion to adjurnn. So move a second. Second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. Opposed. Most carries. Thanks everybody. Good meeting.