Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

There's a signup sheet. Write your name, address, uh, and restrict your comments to specific projects that are under consideration. With that, we'll, uh, address item number one, which is 4689 Brainer Road, elevation and site plan revision to previously approved plan. Alex, can you join us up here and have a seat at the at the table? Uh the reason this is being brought back to the architectural review board and its only architectural review board is that the previously the site plan wasn't completed. When it was it revealed that there was an opportunity to create a walk out from the lower level and it changes the exterior elevations of the building and therefore as to return uh to the to the board for approval. Mr. Bob,

sorry. Oh, sorry. I jumped ahead of myself. Um, can you call the role, please? here. Here [Applause] um just as a reminder to everybody out here, the day is the um this is being both recorded and displayed live on our YouTube. So, um when you speak, speak close to the microphone. Otherwise, it doesn't necessarily pick up what you're saying. Um okay. Okay. So, we're on item number one, Bob.

All right. The uh this is Domas construction uh for 4689 Marina Road. The it's been before the planning commission before and received approval uh for the uh for the new home to be built. a foundation permit has been issued, but there have been made changes made uh to the elevation um particularly a a basement walk out has been has been added which was really consistent with the original site plan, but it's that um alteration to the originally improved plans that is before you tonight. It's a sold house customers wants to have it, too. So, they'd like to have that.

I'll let you I'll let you take the Yeah. uh since the Alex Alex construction since the uh site plan of the site existing site condition allowed to have a walk out on the eastern part western part of the lot um actually it's pre-sold the sold house already customer would love to have this opportunity that's why we created uh with minor changes new elevation design and u seems to be they're okay at least you're approving that how so How come we don't have a site plan? Uh, you don't site plan is in there. It should be here. I got already a stamp.

It's not in the reduced package that we have here. We Can you bring it up on the screen, Bob? Oh, I hear I apologize. Here it is. myself. So again, where where is the uh

uh the house now faces the Pike Road. If you look at the front elevation because the Brainer Road was a uh right now the house faces Pike which is a north side and lot drops down toward the existing house basically to Brainer Road and uh that's what opportunity was created to create to have a walk out basement on the west side of it. So it's going towards Brainer. Yes. right from the street and it's heavy wooded in there too. It's you can see from the street basically what's going on in there you know walk out and if any effect on the streets view I would assume that uh when we have a landscape plan brought forward on this will be

um a patio and you know other amenities over there that we'll be looking at as well. Yeah you always review it anyways before done here. So, and and the the front of the house not changing. It's not changing. And that's I mean the right side. You see slope drops down on the right side. And again, the way you're footprint stays the same, but it's the front of the house is actually going towards pipe here. Yes. It was pre-approved before you guys had it already. Yeah. I must not.

That's all right. So, um, are there any other comments or questions on on this property? I'd like to entertain a motion for approval. Somebody make a motion for approval. So, move a motion. No, just start discussion. So, uh, I need a second. Okay. That can you call the question, please? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Item number two is 27520 Shagrin Boulevard. The urgent care building signage. um Marie Cipeletta from Sinaorama who is here I believe to present uh address the sign

uh the the new sign for uh for uh has been this proposal is for the building uh signage on the base of the building but it is compliant with uh with the sign regulations. So, it's just a a matter of acceptability to the planning commission. I would assume that this sign is similar to the all of the other signs that the other urgent care centers around the area that we've seen. They are, but it certainly is not similar to anything that's on there now.

Well, it's a different business. Well, I just remember years ago that we had a big discussion about this property having all the same signage. That was changed um some time ago. We've gone away. Originally the the sign criteria was restricted to a specific red color and since then we have um amended that to allow for corporate colors to be utilized which has been done with both Spectrum and um FedEx. FedEx

FedEx. So this is, you know, just following the the program. Are there any questions or comments in regards to the signage for the building? How many um of these patient parking spots [Music] in the parking lot? There's going to be four patient parking. And I believe on the site plan four. So that that's where it's uh it's a little arrow. Yes. And it's showing the four spots. Orange spots. Those are going to be the That's correct.

Is that based on the data that you received from the urgent care management? I believe I'm sorry. I believe so. But also I think it has to do with what was allowed there for that tenant space, what their parking was. Any other comments or questions? The uh the staff entrance is this is in the back. The staff entrance is in the back. Yes.

And this sign is going on a wall that is black. Is that right? Yeah. It's like a slatted wood. I don't really have the color. You can actually It's up walls up. Yeah. the wall. It shows black. I think Yeah, they don't actually call out of color on this because we didn't have anything to do with that.

Yeah. Yeah. The elevations have already been approved. So, it's just all we're approving is the signage and it seems to me that the color is sort of a dark brown. What? Black. It is black. It is black. Okay. Stand correct. Okay. He knows. All right. Any other comments or questions? Having none, I will entertain a motion for

approval. a second. Okay. This is architectural only. Um science planning a second. And what science also zoned? Oh, that's true. It's You're right. Correct. It's a combination.

Okay. So, we have a recommendation for approval for a combined a architectural review board and planning commission um approval and signage for the urgent care building at 27520 Boulevard. Can you call the question, please? Yes. Yes. Light. Yes. Thank you. Yes.

Thank you very much. Yes. Um, as long as we're on signage and the Shagrin plaza, we are now um have the Lakeshore learning sign that will be replacing the existing one that's there because of the new facade construction. Yes, this is um Hold on.

Yeah, the the uh this sign also uh is compliant with the sign regulation. So, it is a it is again on the front of the uh the building. It is a replacement uh sign for Lakeshore Learning, but and it is again compliant. So, so this is a push through back lit sign. It's a cabinet sign. sign. Yes. What about the I haven't seen anything on any of these uh proposals for the monument sign. The monument sign, those plans came in today with the landscaping. They'll be on the next meeting. Thank you.

So, as part of uh the building renovation when the signs were removed, um Lakeshore had one of the original, as you previously mentioned, uh red signs. and now they want to take the opportunity to bring it into compliance with their corporate colors. So, this is going to be a set of white channel letters mounted to a blue background panel. That's different. That's different than what's depicted here in which you submitted channel. It's a It looks like it's a It's a channel letter. 3-in deep channel letter mounted to a panel. Oh, okay. I I look at it and it's okay.

Yeah. Look like push through. Okay. And so it's just no longer going to be Lakeshore Learning. It's just going to be called Lakeshore. Correct. So we'll see sailors.

Um Okay. Motion to approve. Do I motion? Second. April on the motion. April on the second. Further conversation or questions, comments? Hearing none. And then we call the questions, please. Yes. Yes. Lazar. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Now we're getting into sort of the meat and potatoes of this meeting. Uh the first item uh is item number four, permanent property number 901039 Omni proposed minor lot split. Uh Gary Bialis from Omni Senior Living. It's been approved as noted by the village engineer. Give me just one quick second. I want to put the the site plan up. Let's see how what's on the board at the moment on the screen is the village engineers minor um dimensional issues and engineer is here. So if anybody has any questions regarding that but uh but it has been approved uh conditionally with addressing these these minor issues. And as I understand it, we have a an updated uh plan already. So that is being reviewed. So uh ready to proceed on that with that condition if the board is of a mind. And this is to take the commercial uh lot and split it into four uh or what was previously referred to as the commercial um lot. split it into four different parcels. Uh and that's from the board.

So pap is this lot signed? Say that again. Is this I don't see any signatures on this. No, the the law split doesn't get signed until planning commission has to approve it first and then it has to be finalized by uh and sign all the signatures but one of the signatures is the planning commission's final approval and the village engineer. So it's not the the the corrections that need to be made need to be made on that final set and confirmed and approved by the village engineer before signatures are done. So that's my general understanding and if I misstated that my Belg engineer will correct me.

And again I I I think we has this property been sold to the development. Can I answer that? Yes, you may. That's I hope you can do that.

Answer that. I'd like to pass something out though to say to so you understand the process that we're working through. So we're on the same page and I'll walk through this. Thank you. Um, first before I get into the uh the sheet here, uh, the engineer did provide uh, corrections and dimensions and we picked those up and actually added them to him. I don't know if uh, the engineer. So he he has

you concur, right? I haven't seen it.

Well, I submitted him a week and a half ago to Rob and it was it was dimensions that were asked to change. We made those changes on the drawings. Um so in the meantime, uh the way the plat works typically each of the there's three owners on this prop property which are the wine traps who own this property presently. And um they have signed this plat but it still has to be signed by the village engineer. So if he wants I have it here tonight. It's the myars. So if he wants to take back review it and make sure the changes that I submitted him are correct. Uh then that's fine. But then um I guess it' be subject to him reviewing it. Okay. So let let me go on the the the process which we're looking through is uh we have to get our overall site development approval and that's the next item on the agenda. So that's one of the items I need to close. So we don't own this property presently. The next is the lot split here which um Brian can look at and see if it's made the changes which we did. Uh the also what goes on is the wine traps, the three wine trap people in different locations have to actually sign deeds. They have signed the deeds. They are in the our escrow agent is has them also um the city or sorry the village because there's a tiff on this has to be part has to be in the chain title. Uh our attorney talked to attorney Paul Sigerman and he has those and he will have those. So it has to go into the city or villages hands for five minutes or whatever and come out. So um that

will also that's also with the title company. After all that's done we then have to we then buy the property. Okay. Um and we have two purchases. Purchasers will be buying parcels simultaneously almost. It all happens at one time in a sequence. The one will be py and one will be I call it tour but it's the orthodontist. So then once that happens we go through and get our building permit to do the I call it the underlying work because we're we're preparing the site. We're getting utilities to different users but they're doing their own site work. So we will grade the site. will bring sewer, storm, water to them. We also put a road in from Harvard to South Orange that they will tie into their properties.

So, you're you're constructing those pieces. Yeah, it's our responsibility to construct that. It's their responsibility to they're going to do everything. Bob, I don't I must have hit something wrong. I touched something. The lights on. Just talk real close. Okay. Sorry. You're going to be doing the mass grading, correct? And installing the road, correct? Will connect the properties together to Orange Place. Yes. And you're going to be installing the the main utilities that we'll be looking at momentarily on the final development.

Right. And we will we will install them to their property line. So if the storm goes there, they'll carry it on sanitary water. They take it to their buildings, take it from there to their buildings and and complete their their entire cycle, right? They'll do their paving, the curbing, everything else. That's the answer to my question is you don't own this property.

No, not right now. We have an we have a not an option. We have a a contract that we have to buy it. We just didn't want to buy it and then sit on land. So that's how the process works. That's why I put this sheet together so you have an idea of what we're doing. It was uh very similar to we did with PY property to be honest with you also on their on their transaction. We bought it and PY purchased it simultaneously almost from us. So what we're quite honestly asked to pro approve here at this in this application is for the lot split and consolidation.

Correct. home and that the plat the the myar would then be reviewed by the engineer, signed off by the engineer, right? And at the same time, there are documents that are already in t in the escrow with the title company that confirm the sale transfer of the properties. Correct. Okay.

Right. So when that all takes place, it's going to happen sort of simultaneously. Um then the property becomes yours. You can do all these things that need to be getting done relative to construction and properties can be conveyed to the the other parties that will be acquiring them all and tour

right the one just to clarify we'll be they will purchase these properties prior to us getting all the utilities in though they still that's our contract with them so we will grade it they could start you know getting their final architectural drawings done and all that. The first thing to do is grade it. Um, and we have so many days to get them utilities to their property. You have to you have turnover for a pay. Yes. Right. And then, as you say, once the engineer signs off on these, the plat would also go to the title company to sit for closing. This would be filed with the county.

County. Yeah. Brian, what what what uh item did you mention to me that you said that you did not see? What were you referring to? Can you um here so we could enjoy the benefit of your knowledge question? So you said that that you had not uh seen something. You had not approved it uh in reference to his question. I haven't seen the final the changes that were made. The changes the the changes from my last letter were basically correcting distances and and and minor bearings. It was

technical very small. Yeah, exactly. It some of the parcels just weren't closing. So, and this is in reference to the last place. The last flight, correct? Okay. Yep. They're really minor changes and those myars have those changes. Yes, they have them on here. So that's all I'll be doing is verifying that good enough. Anything else, private?

Thank you. Thanks, Brian. Sure. Any other questions from the commission? Any comments from the audience said um you know our action here on this in particular is to uh approve the the lot split before us and then uh it will be confirmed that all of the corrections have been made by the engineer and then it'll go through the the process that we'll take it ultimately to the county for filing and be able to have those the record of the fact that you will own the own the property so you can go forward with the actual work.

Correct.

So, you know, I would just make a comment that in the past, you know, we've always wanted the owner the property owner to actually own the property. Now, I do know that we have done this in the past. We have uh done a lot split for somebody, you know, based upon a contract. I know that has occurred in the past. Uh but um again the usual procedure would be that they would own the property. So anyway, I just mentioned that. So, thank you for thank you for bringing it up um in this in this instance uh because of the sort of complexity of that ownership and knowing that it's going to be transferred with um stuff that is now being held in escrow by the title company. I think we have a pretty good idea that that is going to be owned by the the developer and transferred that to the other parties involved. So that being said, I think we can approve the plat so this whole thing can go forward because this seems to be the instrument of that occurrence. So

that and I have a motion to move to approve the plan with the corrections.

I'll second Jeff Light motion and Kathy Maran a second. Any other comments or questions? Can you call the question, please? Mar, yes. Yes. Lazar, yes. Yes. Yes.

Thank you. Okay. Item number five, Harvard Road Omni Commercial Final Development Plan. Before we dive into this and recognizing that we will have another project coming before us in a little bit that will be a preliminary development plan, I thought it beneficial to describe for the the public here what a final development plan and what a preliminary development plan are there. They are successive to each other and one is dependent upon the other. The Amy development has already received a approval of their preliminary development plan and previously the preliminary development plan basically describes the character, the outline of the property, location of buildings, roads, parking, other amenities on the site. um where different elements will be addressed including such things as basic um drainage and um storm water management uh uh facilities. Bob, is there anything else that is part of that preliminary development plan?

I'm sorry. I was I was I was enumerating in my mind the items for that are included in

so yeah the the the it's uh if I can since I was only half listening to that I apologize but it is it is they have to provide clear understanding of the the layout of the land proposed um um the the streets the the intended utilities um uh in in the broadest strokes and what the when planning commission approves a preliminary development plan. They're giving license to that developer to take that plan and make it whole, make it real, get into all the devil, all the details, right? And if they can still comply with that original preliminary development plan, the city has given them license to proceed with that. Um, so that's the that's the critical part of preliminary development plan is they need it before they start spending tons of money on all the technical details for a project. And then we come to the final development plan which we are going to talk about here for both uh the omni commercial final development plan and the final development plan for the canyons. Uh the final development plan is about buildability. Um it addresses in much greater detail the specifics of the project so that they can be clearly understood by the villages consultants, engineers, fire department, police department, service department, uh uh village planner and building departments that they clearly are compliant with the original intent of the preliminary development plan. and then the details that will be based on the construction documents that are then the buildability of that site that that it can be constructed as initially

intended. So what we are talking about here this evening on as it relates to the Omni commercial final development plan is meeting those requirements that contribute to the ultimate buildability of the site as intended. So with that, um Bob, do you want to sort of introduce it and then we can dive into the the detail and and discuss some of the further issues that have to be addressed.

The see just a moment One of the things that is a component of all of this I think is is worth noting is that there are utilities that are being brought to the site and being facilitated in some cases by others. Um but we need to understand what they are where they are and they are um acceptable to the utility companies who are have purview over them like Cleveland water department sewer department of public works and so on that um that we have commitments from those that these are approvable or have been approved by those entities.

That is a part andor condition of an approval of the final development plan. if I can direct the commission's attention to uh page C102. I'm going to put that up on the board on the screen for a minute and just as a as a kind of an overview of what um what is proposed for the property. Um there are four lots. We just approved planning commission just approved for a four lot split. This then lays out what's likely to happen, what's proposed to happen, part of the final development plan on those four lots. What the the one of the lots A1 is likely to be split again, but right now there's uncertainty as to where that might be split. You'll see there are two retail buildings being shown on that lot. It's nothing inappropriate if they decided to keep it as one lot and have two retail buildings. So, perfectly fine to approve this general use. One of the things we look at is does it meet the zoning code requirements that was established um uh when when this property was reszoned? And so this does meet those commercial zoning code setback requirements. Um the location of the roadway is critically important. In all of these uh civil drawings, you will find the easements for uh uh access. They're sharing a roadway. So, four properties uh are sharing a roadway. They've all got grant uh easements to one another for that for the utilities, all of those things. And so, this is the overall um uh final development plan that is being proposed. Now, not everyone who's here was here for the the preliminary or the u Pinerest, but Pinerest had dozens of subsequent final development plans. So they would come in with a plan and then it would change a

little bit over time and there's nothing wrong with that. So final development plan doesn't mean you can't come back and say we need to tweak this or that but it is this plan can proceed. Uh and that's the that's the what the applicant is requesting is permission for this plan to proceed. The uh we have um uh a number of comments uh there should be before you from uh the fire department. Um, hang on just a minute. So you see uh so the the fire department's comments, um the uh village engineers comments, um the city planners comments, uh the service director's comments. Actually, I don't think we have service director comments on on

this. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a wrong development plan. I'm sorry. Okay. So, so those are the those are the comments. Um the fire department um if I can um the fire department didn't have um I didn't matter. His is short enough to No, I gave gave him the wrong set. My follow we all received the walnut hills which is subsequent to come up later

and I don't know that we want to approve we want to apply those comments to this project. [Music] So I apologize. So go back to that. Uh there might not

fire department has no comments. Has no comments. There's no fire comments. Okay. So, [Music]

the fire department absolutely did have comments. So, their their comments had to do with uh certificates of occupancy. Uh the the original plans had the potential of not having the road go all the way to orange place. Um, and so I think that question has been resolved, but their comments basically said, "If we don't have access from Orange Place to this highole site, we don't want the businesses allow being allowed to open." That was that was essentially their comment. They had no problem with the plan, but that access and making sure that it was fire department access through Orange Place, whether or not it was out to to Harbor was not particularly relevant to them. but they couldn't have a harbor only entrance and have a commercial site operating. So, I'll I'll let Gary comment on that and make sure that I didn't misstate that.

You want me to comment now? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, well, yeah. The the concern was that we didn't have a right in right out into this site only. So, we have two we have a right in right out of Harvard and a full access through South uh Orange Place. uh and it loops all it goes all the way from one entrance to other entrance so there's full access.

I think there was also some concern and I think that was addressed in the discussion of the previous item about the ability of of your organization to construct these on properties that at the moment you don't own but will own once that document that's there is filed. Correct. Yes. So that kind of puts that it's still up in the air but it can be confirmed. Well you saying to construct a road construct anything on the parcels that are not owned by your group.

Well the only thing like I said would go into the property line of parcels but they know the requirements to the fire department and lo you know of fire hydrant locations. uh fire FTC's. Those are all we sat down with the fire department and agreed where they should go. We finally are we finally able to bring the plan up over there.

We're getting there. Can we um Bob, do you have the uh engineered comments or would it make sense for Brian to um line on his comments?

We're giving dueling access here. So, I know that some of the comments had to do with um verifying approval by Cleveland Water Department for the plant connections of the water lines and you have I know you were asked to get some kind of a statement or letter of commitment from the water department on that.

Well, right now we have just a verbal where they want to put it. Uh they've asked us to there's a water line that ends uh on the east side of the entrance into Pinerest. It's a 16inch line. At first, uh there was discussion of running it down the north side of the road, but there's too many things whether it be um vault, electrical vaults, everything. So, they agreed that we would run it under harbor with a bore, not cut, open cut, and run on north side of the road. We were going to put it on our property as an easement to them. They asked us, they don't like easements. They want the rightway. So, we shifted it to the rightway. and we've submitted those drawings to them that we've done everything what they've asked for. We just haven't got the response back. If they told us what they want to do, we've given it to them. So now we're just waiting for them to review those drawings. I think it's important that we have some kind of from the CWD that that uh if that they will allow you to do what you're proposing to do as a condition of a approval for this development plan. Okay, Mr. Chairman, if I can the village engineers um letter is up on the screen. I think it would probably make the most sense to have

okay that would be great

the highlights of that it's it's not if it is the proposal the final development approval is not approved and there are a number of issues with that basically the last review has not been approved I mean I just saw these my letters dated July 30. I haven't received uh new plans as of as of yet. Um obviously your comments about uh governmental agency approvals all listed there. Uh EPA, they need everything from the EPA, water sewer, NOI, um clean water department, regional sew our regional sewer district, the department of public works. These are all, you know, requirements and approvals that they're going to need before they're even going to be able to to start being able to do any work on this. Um,

Brian, could you enumerate the specific approvals that are needed from the other governmental agencies that

Well, they needed from they needed from the EPA. They needed for both sanitary. They're they're NOI. They're they're sanitary and water. They they need from Clinton Water Department the extension for um not only the 16inch water man down Harbor Road, but they also need the taps that they're putting in for the other individual parcels off of Orange Place and off of a very lane. They need uh county department of public works um to extend the sanitary sewer up into the commercial area and the regional sewer district. So which does a complimentary review. So

you say nice things about you. Is that pretty much I think I saw some other things on your uh letter there that there's a number of other items on here as well that you are not correct.

Correct. I I I I I mean I I had issue with coordination between a couple of the parcels that that are near final. Um which I I do know that they addressed with multi-development. Um their two engineers have gotten together about that. Um, I did have issues with parcel A1, um, in coordination with that parcel because it was also in for review. Um, I just have received parcel A2, so I have not made any comparisons to that one. Um, but I do have a number of other issues like with the waterline extension where they're showing it. where they're showing it. They're not going to be able to build in there unless they're going to go under four utility bolts in our rifle, which I don't think they're going to be able to do. They they've seen my comments. I, you know, um I'm suggesting a board along their bore to avoid a bunch of these conflicts. Um and and again, I I have a number of other review items that I'll need to address. Thank you. Sure.

If they have to go to a longer bore, I'm looking at where this, you know, lines being bored across Harvard Road. Um, would that have to then be in some kind of an easement? Um, that would be on their property to then take it back into the rightway. How would

they where they come across the the one easement they're going to need, they're going to need from Pinerest. They're showing part of their proposed water man out of the right way on Pinerest property. Where that 45 comes in from there, take that street right across uh Harvard Road. It's just going to come across Harvard Road on a diagonal rather than perpendicular because that way you come to the east of the all the easements and you will avoid potential conflict with the telephone. Again, that's just a recommendation, you know, to to their engineer

CWD. Um that kind of diagonal border across. Sure. Why is it Why does it need to come out of the Why does it need to go into Pinerest in order to I I'm not sure. I I I was pretty sure that was in the the rightway. No, I can see the jog in the rightway right at the intersection of uh The reasoning for that more than likely is to avoid the Pine Crest sign and the transformer and it's sitting right behind it. Yeah, they got to get past those before they can

make any connection and try to get across hard. So, have you reached out to um Tanganger to We have what's what's the status of that Gary? We haven't heard anything from them. I mean, I'll I'll check additionally with them and if we have to, we'll revise it. So you and we'll have to go under the sign, but the sign is in not in the rightway, right? The the Pinerest sign is actually in the right. The sign is in the rightway. Okay. They were given permission to be in the right way and uh and navigate around and Okay.

So the first the first technical item is the water line. getting clarification on the water line, how that's going to get across the road, how that will then connect to this um northerly water line extension that runs across the northern property line on the southside part of the road. Correct. Okay. And then from that does that is that water line at some point connect that into or or is that just a totally separate?

No, it's a separate from the the main that goes down Orange Place. Okay. So, the the the water lines that are essentially coming in to accommodate retails in areas A1, A2, and A3 are coming off of Orange. Is that correct? No. No. No. A A A1 and A3 come off of Harvard. A4 comes off of South or Orange Place South. And then uh A4 was coming through the property.

No, PY properties for A2. Is that okay? Yeah, that's and that's a a public water man. Yes. Through an easement. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. What? Avery Lane. Avery Avery Road. Is that Avery Lane? The location placement of fire hydrants uh the PIVs has all been it it was for our conversation check again with the chief of where he wanted it.

Are you good with that chief? Brian for the individual lots as far as where the the yard hybrids will be and the PIBs, the FDC's and all that will be subject to the plans that are submitted by those individual uh

people who are the new property owners etc. So you know whatever was proposed may change depending on on building faces and size of the building and all of these things. So the fact that the water lines are being run is half the battle and we'll deal with the location of the hydrants and all the other uh pieces of parts that we will need down the road. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I think that you know my comments here is is that that there are just a whole lot of things that in my mind have to be met and I don't see how we can approve something as a final development plan. um you know and um to me you know it's it's the same song that I heard last week right I'm sorry the last meeting um you know and and I just um I'm perplexed as to you know how this developer uh you know keeps you know coming up with no answers for our people you know for the engineer and everybody else. So, um I I just, you know, would would not I don't see how we could improve something.

Well, I don't think that they've not come up with the answer. I think the engineer hasn't had a chance to review sufficiently to make sure that the answer the questions that he's asked have been answered in the way that he can approve them. Well, yeah, we've received uh the email link. Are there other comments from the engineer that you have not received?

No. No. We received a letter late Friday and my engineer responded this morning to his comments and some were clarifications, some he said, "I'll make this change." So, we're responding as fast as we get the comments back and that's just the way it is. Uh, some of the comments were new from last time. So, we'll respond again to these. We I shouldn't say we already responded to these, but there was some that he said he would add a note or change something. So, we're going to do that and then resubmit those. And the water company I somehow I've got to get them to respond. Going back to your beginning of this

April's question, Bob, is can we outline again what the uh requirements are for a final development plan approval? Because I guess, you know, my question is are we do we need a fully complete engineer center for approval? It can't be altered or amended um based on additional information requested.

See you getting the code first.

You get the code first. Yeah. [Music] As as was mentioned earlier, um the preliminary development plan is a relatively short nine item list. The final development plan requirements essentially 23 very detailed sets of specifics that are required. Um it it involves a drainage plan including and this is just picking the ones that are more complex. All right, a drainage plan including the calculation for proposed storm and detention facilities. All right, that gets into the into the question of all of the storm sewers on all of the sites and all of the grading necessary and where is it all going? Do they have easements for where that water's going? Uh not because the all that water is going off site. So those are those are pieces and parts of the the technicalities. Um you get into as um the village engineer Brian Mayor mentioned his his um list of nos was like three pages long. Some of them are relatively direct um as far as resolutions. Some of them are more complicated and involve multiple layers and other things of that nature. Um the in the end that's what the village engineer is looking at is is is is these items and all of his technical uh county engineering requirements necessary to approve these items that are on our list.

So are we required approval for final approval? Yes.

Yeah. Unless we have this approval, we don't know if they can if they're complying with all the storm water sanitary regulations or the grading. Um, so the detention basins, that's that's that's what we rely on for is to say yes, all of this ties together into a if you if you build this, it will comply with the requirement. So yes, that we rely heavily on him for that final approach. As I have looked at the drawings, all of those items have are included in this. Whether they need to be amended or address is another issue that are part of it to make it approvable. And I think the issue isn't so much is it there or not there. It is here,

but it needs to be um clearly coordinated because of how this project is being developed with individual users building their own sites and then we're depending upon those individual users complying to a master development plan and conforming to the requirements that are provided. We need to make sure that the master development plan that you've produced um that is the Bible by which the subsequent tenants are going to build and subsequent owners are going to build their properties and on these paths and I think that's ultimately what we're looking at because I know that it's not likely that you're um you you're going to be developing the individual. you're not developing A1, A2, A3, A4, A4 is PY, A, you know, um, A1, A2, so forth, uh, by others. And while they're depicted here in the plan and you're showing where water lines are going, where drainage is going, how grading is working, it needs to be and it looks, you know, on the paper it looks like it all's fitting together. We need to have that confirmed. And if there are any other subsequent issues that need to be addressed that um to meet the code, we need to know that as well.

Yeah. And none of those meet the meet none of those come together right now. I don't know if that's true. They come together there there are gaps, you know, just like the the on the the the plat before. Those were relatively minimal numerical gaps, but they were they were actual gaps between where the property lines described and were supposed to close. All right, these are gaps that have a potentially greater uh impact. And the village engineer, we we ask him to make sure that they're all closed. And at this point, the applicant has been given a list. They have responded. We don't know if they have responded with all of the issues on the list. That's what the village engineer now has to address, right? And we can't, this is the important part, we can't have uh unanswered questions in the final development plan and then have a a an individual commercial developer come to build on one of those lots when we don't know how that last piece ties together and how it affects them because we won't be able to tell whether or not his plan abides by the final development plan because there's a gap. So trying to close those gaps, make sure that he's got a fully salailable and buildable development and all of the buyers of these properties and developers of these properties have a complete uh a complete set. All right. So so that everybody's on the same page literally and figuratively speak. So here's how I see this playing out at this moment. What's important is that we have a plan here and I think the plan is complete. I think the plan has all of the detail in it that is expected. It's my microphone.

It's seem to be flickering on and off.

Um, we have the information in this package that is sufficiently detailed to determine whether all of these things have been met. Um, we do need to have the engineer be able to sign off to concur that those those gaps are closed, that the information is complete with respect to the requirements of the development final development plan in the co as it is in the code. And then if we can get a confirmation and we've asked for that previously from some of the other governmental agencies that have purview over this as mentioned EPA uh dowick um not doick the county um department of public works regional sewer district Cleveland water department um they are either they've approved or will approve the plans um based on their agreement with your discussions with them for the site. I don't think that that's an unreasonable thing to ask at this point. As much as I would like to get this approved with conditions, I think the big condition is that we need to confirm that everything works. And so would you like to add anything there? Well, I would like to make a request. I understand what you're saying totally. Uh you have to be comfortable with it. Uh what I do ask and I know if you could do this because I do want to get all this information to you and I'm working with utility comes, they're difficult. These plans are 95%. We thought they were 100% done. I'm not saying your engineer came up with items. Some were small items. Some were clarifications. We will make those

changes. we've already commented back in a letter from his uh mon Friday afternoon. So, we comment better what we're going to do. Now, I have to show that on the drawings. The other thing is I have to hound these utility companies or EPA to get something from them. Uh the way your system works though that I really want to be on the next meeting. If I can get this done within the next three days, 4 days, we're already he's already working on all his comments he made. He'll have his drawings done probably tomorrow for the drawings. In so far as you've submitted those plans already, Brian just needs only to review them. You've made the submission that would enable you to be on the next agenda.

Okay. That's why I asked otherwise it's a month from now. Yeah. And if if I may, what what I heard you say is that not everything is was corrected as of this what you sent us. What I'm saying is I got to talk to my engineer. He started working on this today. He said in his letter to Brian and I copied other people on it, here's what I plan on doing. Okay. And so, if I may, Mr. Chairman, what that means is we may not get plans in time for the village engineer to do his proper review before the next meeting. I have no objection to putting them on the agenda, but we are it's a pig and a poke as to whether or not we're going to have them in time and get them completed, get the review completed in time. So well

there's there's another way in which to do this that I think makes sense. If there are items on that list that can be addressed in a written response that can be in that can be incorporated into this. They'll review the the documents that are submitted uh for consideration and whatever may remain can be addressed in a letter of confirmation of what those items are so that the project can be completed.

Well, I will make every effort I I won't because I'm not doing the drawings, but I to have them in by Thursday morning or I'll try to get them by Wednesday. It's only Well, not Wednesday, Thursday morning. So he's only going well he's addressing these items that are on this letter. He will address those. He addressed some where something said I didn't see this or you haven't done this. He'll say go to page six. It's on item A. So a lot of items are there. It's just a big set of drawings. Other items do have to be changed or clarified. So I don't think I think we can get it to him. it shouldn't be that great a review because Brian I would think he would take this letter and look at these items and say okay those are done or not. So I would get those and then the other thing which doesn't have to be reviewed by I don't think anybody is the information from the utility companies which I will work on getting. So I just asked to be in another meeting. I'll get things to you by Thursday and I don't know if I have the utility information by Thursday, but the corrected drawings and clarification which is on this memo or this letter already with the utility companies. Yeah,

I think we can, you know, think you need to, you you've been asked about that one for some time and uh I think we need to get some kind of confirmation that particular Cleveland Water Department. We know where the sewers are going. We know what that pretty much is about, but confirmation and the EPA is something that will be forthcoming and certainly that can be a condition of approval down the road. I don't think that's the thing that's going to hold up the plan.

We've already submitted to a lot of those agencies and they actually responded back so we know what their comments are and we submit the drawings back to them. I'm going to be honest, the water company is like they don't care. They don't care. Mayor, I I'll make a motion at the table. Motion to table.

The second got it. Okay. So, we got a motion to table this item. I think you have a pretty good understanding of what what we need. Um Um, we had a motion in a second. Danette, will you call the question, please? Yes. Yes. Lazar, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. Thank you. Look forward to

as always. Look forward to seeing you again next time. Okay. Item number, what are we up to? Item number six, Canyon's North Parcel number 901 03 039, site A4, um, formerly site. Final development plan approval and uowski. Plan has been approved by the fire chief and noticing along pretty well on that little vehicle.

I'm making do, sir. What' you do? uh was chainsawing a tree down and it kicked back on me. And that sounds bad all the way around. That was a mistake. Yeah.

Is that I don't know if that needs to turn so you guys can see it. These are quite I think these are quite honestly um for both this item and the next

I'm sorry item six is the final development plan. Item seven is the request for correct trying to get that to stay up for them. So what's the [Music] So so the whole discussion on the party board and vital that's a different matter. That's the next. So that would be the next site. That's item seven. That's why you have Zindic. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. What we're talking about on item six is actually similar to what we just discussed for the Omni development, but we're focusing entirely on just the parcel that will be the town homes that will be part of the Omni piece that is being purchased by four. You want to kick this one off?

This is a This is the final development plan approval for the canyons north. Um this is the southern property um on the lot split that was approved a few minutes ago. Let's see. I'm making a mess here. You're good. All right. for clarity this

and Bob I can I'm happy to walk the group through where the parcel is through the presentation if that's easier for you. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

Um so just going through this presentation rather quickly unless you guys tell me to slow down. I did um I did attend the planning commission of J uh July 15th. uh the mayor did not have the benefit of being at that meeting so thought it would be beneficial to just do a very cursory review so we can reaclimate and just um make sure that he sees some of the work good work we're doing on this project. Um so this is just an overall map of the entire zoning district. Um, you'll see down in through here these light uh orange or yellowish uh buildings which represent 117 uh town homes and what I refer to as the canyons proper community. Uh this portion of community has already been through its final de development process. Engineering's approved. We are moving uh earth and roads are down and we are constructing that portion of project. Well,

um, you said the engineer is approved. Yeah. Yes, we are we are land developing the site currently. That's but it says un talking about the canyons itself, not canyons north. Yeah, we're talking about this single parcel of land that is referred to in the um subdivision that we just reviewed for That's right. You were referring to the other site. Yes. Yes. I'm acclimating the group with the entire project so we can know where we're dealing. I'm sorry.

Yes. So, we are actively land developing this Canyon's proper which consists of 117 town homes. Okay. The uh this page here is showing the overall zoning district site. So here uh to the east is the wooded area which I presumably in the end state probably about 35 acres worth of land. Um the red buildings up here represent the commercial u um properties associated with the previous applicants um desire to final development plan those areas. Um but also within that is the parcel A4 which is this darker set of um buildings described here. More specifically, it is along the aisleway of Avery Lane as you enter in from Orange Place. This Brian is the area up for consideration at the moment. Um, which are the 15 town home units. Again, just trying to acclimate everybody. Um, so looking at that just a little bit differently and more closely. Um, it's comprised of four uh building strings, all of which are four unit except for the first one coming in off of Orange Place, which is a three-unit uh building string. Um, as we saw earlier this evening, um, a lot split plat was approved by planning commission to allow for this, uh, parcel to be, uh, identified as its own. Um, one of the things that when we were uh when we came before the planning commission in July 15th that the village asked that I do to ensure some of the coordination of water looping um was secured in terms of u the the seller or other applicants ability to uh run their water lines or whatever they need to do. uh you know in doing that they need to connect to our water system and our water system also needs to connect down through the southern portion of our site into Warrenville Heights. So what I've

done at the request of the village is provide a letter of credit um which was predicated off an amount that was uh um arrived at by engineers estimate of probable cost. Uh that was a total of $181,000 600 uh $181,660. That letter of credit has been issued um and delivered to the law director and the village. Um so that obligation has been fulfilled. Um so I just wanted to point that out. That was a condition last time. Um the uh part of our final development plan um approval tonight includes a uh plat for uh our parcel that will now be split off. Uh in our instance, we're situating the plat into fe simple lots which will allow for the 15 individual units um as individual properties but also a certain amount of common area allocated to the acreage. So fe simple lots it's a single phase for us. Um typical lot size is about 24 foot wide um by you know anywhere from 85 to 90 97 feet deep. There are a series of easements that run through the plat uh or the the platted area traveling north to south starting with the east. There's a sanitary easement we are providing to the seller. There is a water easement we are providing to the seller. Um and there is also um storm water uh there's a a storm um system that comes through on the west side. Uh we have submitted all the engineering accordingly. We've um been delivered feedback. Um I don't know that I need to go into the status of that unless it's of concern for anybody. Um but I think we are very well coordinated at this point and um if there are any remaining issues they are minor and technical in nature.

Um uh noteworthy is the fact that there's some mounding that's traveling along the uh northern edge of the property. Um that mounding is to occur by way of art earthwork. Um so it does cross over into the commercial properties, but there is an easement associated with that allowing for that fact. Um the landscaping and fencing that we intend on that mound uh will be something that will be maintained in perpetuity through our uh HOA um for this site. Uh the HOA documents or amendments there too for the Kenan's proper have also been submitted to uh the law director and village of Orange. Um um so you know we py will be responsible for maintaining um all of the mounted area within that easement even though it is not on the uh a portion of it is not on our owned property. Uh we we have also resubmitted a tree management plan. The last time we came in, we were hovering at about 13.31% of canopy coverage um against a requirement to be 25% canopy coverage. Uh we have figured out a way to make sure that that uh works. So the new tree management plan that we've submitted complies with 25%. Um so I do think we're in a good place there.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Uh we did lose a little bit of the evergreens that I um as a practical matter would have liked to see, but I think we've otherwise come up with a nice colorful arrangement of deciduous trees which do also have some evergreens sprinkled in here and there um where we can manage. Um it's a total of an 85 tree uh count. Um we're at about 27% of those trees are evergreens. Uh each individual uh building string will also get its individual unit landscaping on top of that. Um this is a uh lowmaintenance community will serve all the same HOA maintenance um that Canyon's proper will. It is a function of the Canyon's master HOA for Canyons proper. Um, we are just amending this portion of project site into uh that same community's HOA uh with amendments such as this particular portion of site, the 15 units not being age restricted. All of the other characteristics of maintenance for the community uh will be the same as Canan's proper. Um that would also include, by the way, the partnership we have with Omni. Um their intention to build the senior living facility, which will have a variety of amenities that our homeowners will have access to as well. Uh not here for approval for this tonight, but just want to let you guys know we're thinking about the master plan planning of it all. Um this just describes, you know, part of the Kanan's proper project. We did situate a um sense of arrival at that location with a pretty substantial monumentation signage which has since been approved um by planning commission. Just pointing out the fact that we are um navigating our way through approvals with Sugaren Highlands and um the seller in terms of placing another smaller version of sign at the orange placed entry um to sort of

facilitate um you know way finding if you will but also trying to give some other sense of arrival uh for these 15 units up front as well as part of the master plan. Uh so again just pointing out the idea that um this portion of project will share all of the same amenities and benefits of HOA maintenance. Um the amenities I mentioned um in partnership with Omni would be all of their outside amenity facilities uh should they um construct them which which I think the microphone died. Hello

check. Oh here we are. Uh so that would consist of an access to an outside pool, pickle ball facility or pickle ball rather, pickle ball court rather, botchi ball, putting green, fire pit gathering area. Uh sharing all the same neighboring amenities around. Um I spoke about the HOA amendments. Um this is just more evidence of that. Um and then all of the same um you know warranty uh that PY as a builder would offer to our customers as well as the opportunity to finance through PY mortgage. Um the schedule uh is here uh in front of us. Uh we're looking to move very quickly on this project as we're um trying to grand open our Canyon's proper community this fall, late this fall into the winter. Um so to the extent we're able to um get ourselves in a place of not only final development plan approval but final engineering approvals uh we we'd like to um strive to beat uh the land development improvements for this portion of the site for our grand opening of our canyons proper. um you know, thus not destroying the roadway and in the interim and things like that. Uh while we while we're trying to access have people access it um for our site, um the floor plans uh um you guys are relatively familiar with that. Um we are setting out to offer threetory product. We have achieved um um the ability to do that by way of uh building heights and um the idea that we're not offering first floor masters. This is not a nature restricted community. Uh we are looking at offering things such as rooftop terraces to enjoy the overlook of um the surrounding area. Um we're very excited about the architecture here. Um I personally have had a a great hand in this um um just as I did the Canyons Proper. Uh we you know we truly view this project along with Canyons Proper as a staple piece for us.

We've put a lot of time and effort into making sure that the product is going to fit the part, the streetscape. Um, so I hope you guys are just as excited about the product as I am. Um, but this is just indicating for you uh what that um what that starts to look like. Um, so I've gone through each building and shown you uh the different variations. I've also gone through the effort to say for each of the four buildings, this is in fact exactly what it would look like as you look at the front of those buildings on this um um on this streetscape that I've prepared for you on the table here. Um so we've sort of shuffled the architectural elements around the colors around um making it as diverse as possible um you know staying with the same feel that we want. We think that this architecture will also complement the um architecture we're setting out to do in Canyons proper as well. Um

that on that road there. Yeah, the drive aisle Avery Lane. Which road? Am I allowed to ask a question? Are you finished? I'm finished with my presentation. Yes. I'm sorry. Oh, in fairness to Keith if he's finished with Yes, you may answer. So the uh the the the private road that's coming out of uh Orange Place there uh it looks smaller and it's drawn smaller than the other part of the road there. You're talking about Avery Lane. Avery Lane. Okay. Um the width is different. Different than what?

Well, then it is what the canyons proper. I guess issue. Well, number one, I would just want to make clear before we even answer any questions that the roadway system associated with this final development approval is it's not part of the approval. The roadway system is part of the canyon's proper approval. Approved, but it's in Right. Exactly. But we can look to answer your question. 25 ft. 25 ft back and then it goes to beyond that. It's the same. Yeah, same width. Orange Place is a different story, but that's neither are part of this final development plan approval. So, Brian, it's the same width all the way through.

It's the same every lane is the same width all the way down. Anyway, glasses, adjust my glasses, but the the road is shower on the previously approved with the final development plan for the canyon's proper development. And not only is it been approved, it is in place. That's right. And I have driven it. So, I don't think that it changes from one end to the other. As far as I could see,

that's accurate. [Music] But it's but it's still a full width. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's the same width. Yeah. Continuous. Yeah. Same width. I think a minimum standard may be like 22 feet. This is a 25. Just when I look on these plans, it looks different. It doesn't are the I'm sorry. Are there fully engineered drawings for the Canyons North? The the 15 lots. There is. Yeah.

Yeah. We we've submitted the Canyons North plans. The the plans don't involve any construction of roads at all. It's only the development of that parcel A4, which is splitting it into 15 lines. So the only utilities constructed would be uh storm sewer for like the rear yards and then uh extending the sanitary sewer across the front. Water man across our frontage is already in. Um so we've we've submitted into the city engineer we submitted into Kyogre County addressed their comments. Um city engineer just signed off uh before the meeting here. So we'll go back into the EPA. We should have our PTI in a couple weeks. Um, so our approvals are all they're all looking pretty good.

You have the village engineers approval. Uh, we have their his uh approval for uh he approved the sanitary. I don't think he'll give us his final approval till we get our PTI. So it's we're probably uh 3 weeks out I would I would think. Brian, can you address that? What approval does he need yet? Thanks.

Wise, they are pretty much all set. Um, obviously one of my biggest uh issues right now is they don't own the property. This parcel doesn't actually exist until that lot split gets filed. This parcel doesn't exist. But that's what we just correct. Yes.

Correct. So, I mean that that that all hinges on it. But as far as engineering wise, they their plans are are pretty much all up to snuff and um waiting to be signed off on. There was just some very minor things that that I reached out to condition approval with meeting your final comments. Yes.

Thank you. Anything else? Anyone else have any comments or questions? Are there any public uh comments or questions related to improvement? Hearing none. Motion approve. Motion to approve subject to addressing whatever uh comments final comments the engineer has. Correct.

There's a motion to approve and we need a second. I'll second Mr. Lazar. Thank you. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Follow the question, please. Yes. Yes. You mind giving us to the members?

Yes. We didn't overlook one piece of it. It's kind of important as landscape. Okay. All right. We did we did submit landscape plans and we've complied with 25%. Thank you very much,

Keith. I want Okay. So um the next item going up for discussion is an is ABR only and it is Canyon's model units 13 through 16 request for revised ABR approval. This is essentially looking at the exterior material finishes that had been previously discussed and there's some concern about application of vinyl versus hardy siding and these all. Where do we want to start?

The uh the building was already approved. The building design and and I I'll I'll frame it this way, so to speak. The building design is settled discussion. We've approved the design concept and we've approved the design layout and design elevation. What remains to be approved is the application of the specific exterior materials that will complete the building. So at our last meeting, you know, there was lots of discussion that people were very concerned about having vinyl

and that was the whole discussion. So I don't know where teeth you stand on that now. Um have you are we is there any change I guess as to our last discussion we had two weeks. Um well I think I think much has remained the same in terms of I had submitted a presentation to the planning commission members and Bob has that also that we've submitted and perhaps is handed out to you. It's this here. Uh, yes. [Music] It might be an act.

Well, in my preparedness, I brought copies for everybody.

It's always good to keep. So, I mean, I think, you know, just to rehash, there's just a litany of reasons why we feel that the vinyl sighting is is appropriate in this instance. Um, anything stemming from it not being a code requirement to uh better warranties um um um an installation practice that's more um conducive to the area we live in both by way in terms of having certified installers to do so dealing with weather challenges. It was brought up last time. Um, we discussed just even the simplest things such as not being able to uh paint or touch up the hardy sighting during the winter months leaves uh homeowners anxious, the community not looking great until those things are completed. Um through this presentation I've given examples of existing communities around town. Uh Lakes of Orange being an example u nearby community of uh Stonebrook just demonstrating what the Hardy scenario does start to look like over time. Um you do find reluctances for HOAs to want to splurge on the money to um keep those things perhaps as tight as they could look over time. and vinyl sighting um is a a a building material that we use predominantly across the city of or the area of northeast Ohio. In fact, um the Lakes of Orange is the only community where we install Hardy sighting and that was by way of HOA requirement. Um we were reluctant to do so, but of course we were complying with those rules uh in place whereas here that is not a code requirement. Um, but it's not necessarily um, you know, about a code requirement. It's more about all of the other um, you know, considerations that I've presented

in this uh, packet that hopefully you guys have had a chance to read through. I think, you know, it would be different, as I've said in the past, had I come in here and asked for just a regular old uh, you know, bottom of shelf 4-in beveled sighting. that is not what we're uh what we're asking to install on these units. Um I'll remind that you know having a heavy hand in all of the design of the streetscape for this project. Um and being the builder and developer that um um you know is uh it's incumbent upon us to sell the product and have a good looking product as well. Um we feel that this is the best u application using the vinyl sighting. Again, not stating that we're asking to offer a 4-inch beveled sighting. What we're asking to do and as plainly as I can put it on this on this sheet is that we use a 5- in straight lap sighting, which is the largest lap sighting that a a vinyl manufacturer offers in the vinyl platform. Um, most closely resembling a Hardy plank, but instead with all the benefits of lifetime guarantee. um you know touch-ups that don't um flash across the building as you've seen in some of the examples I've given. Um you know uh I I completely understand that the board is not um it's not your burden to consider economic hardship. Um, but I just want to say in terms of affordability and what customers are looking to have in their homes, if I equate a $20,000 price tag per unit to install Hardy on any given unit, um, I would venture to say with the background of all this explanation that a homeowner

would much rather spend the $20,000 on things like extra quartz countertops, uh premium color cabinets, luxury bathroom options, all the things that are going to actually increase the property value of their home um and turn allowing us to sell the homes for more um for the betterment of all. So, as plainly as I can put it, then the the consideration I'd like you guys to ask knowing that I need to give back as well because there is a concern about the streetscape otherwise again ensuring that I install a 5- in uh straight lap vinyl sighting. Ensure that the millage of that sighting is at a point 42 code I think it's 38. So, this is a sturdier sighting in terms of its um appearance because it won't wave as much. Um not that that's not ne not that that's necessarily an issue but um to the extent someone's concerned about that you know we have already broken up the side elevations um by way of band boards accent material changes window fenistrations we don't have long expansive walls where things can become wavy um I did uh just as a function of um returning with some of the suggested things that you you guys uh set me out to do I did provide a package package showing all of the new color schemes and how those color schemes interact with the site elevations to reassure you that we are changing the colors between accent sightings and the main body of the house. Have you guys seen that? That was in your package. So hopefully that made sense. But

do you have a hard copy of that? Yes, I do. Um so again I think where the negotiation comes in is uh in the instance where if we were setting out to Can somebody hand this to her please? Um do I have another paper in the middle there? Sorry I have the vertical siding be the same dimension as the horizontal. Uh, is the vertical sighting a 5 in lap you're saying? No, it's not.

Uh, you know what? Got me. I'm not sure. Last time it was different. The hardy versus the vinyl side. Oh, yeah. It would be vinyl. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're intending it for it to be vinyl. I'm not

vinyl thickness is the same 4 mill would be a 042 the the flat panels would be uniform I can't I can't tell you what that um dimension is between the battens that's what you're asking what is that flat that delta that dimension between the ribs um I'm not certain what that dimension is and I can't misspe tonight so I can't give you an accurate uh answer on that. So, um but I think um never it's an important question and I'm not dismissing it, but I do want to just get back to the idea that um and we can we can continue that conversation as much as you like, but I just want to just say that.

Okay. Yeah, me neither. Um well, the proposal here is to offer the 0.042 042 millillage with a 5- in uh lap vinyl sighting, but also in the instance that we do that um provide black window frames for the entire community um not only in Canyon's proper uh front, sides, and rear, but also on the um Canyon's North project. And I personally feel that the black window frames will have a better impact than providing hardy sighting um for all the reasons why I feel it's an inferior product to begin with.

Keith, you know, last meeting we requested um that you look at alternatives. Y was there something in between? There's nothing in the middle. Um there are there are products that are similar to Hardy. Um but it puts us in the same circumstance that um by and large in the same circumstance that we feel we'd be in with the Hardy. So um my position is that we'd like to install the vinyl at the 5- in lap. Um and with that provide black windows. Is this broken up more since last time?

I feel like there's a larger expanse of white sighting when we were looking at it last time.

That's because I showed you guys the um I showed you a previous presentation for the sake of showing you something. Um and that was to my demise. So um the canyons uh north demonstrates the accent colors being different as we intend and and canyons proper um we intend to do the same thing. We have grown and learned through the process of lakes of orange. When we started in Lakes of Orange, we were painting everything, including the trim the same color. Um, then we went to Lakes of Orange 7. We said, "Hey, it's going to look better if we use white trim on the siding. It's a little bit nicer uh touch to it." Um, and now we were saying beyond that, let's break up wall expanses with different colors, which is what you're seeing tonight. So essentially the difference on what we have now is accents the accent sections as well as black. That's what's different from what we saw last

the accents and what was the other piece of it? Uh and the black framing window. Yes. Yeah. We are prepared to offer black windows uh throughout the entire community uh if we do vinyl site. He mentioned that last time. Black windows. Yeah. Yeah. But we didn't have a red. We didn't have the this rendering is different based on those two items. And I have to say that you know it's not that we do not have not that we don't have

um we have many homes in Orange Village that are that have vinyl siding throughout throughout the community. Um, I believe that the the Hardy has a little more stability to it than the vinyl does, but um the uh point what is it 442 millillage is what we're able to

2 mill um is a little heavier gauge. Um my only concern, one of my concerns about vinyl sighting is that over does is is more about its um color stability over time, whether it is affected by sun because you can't paint it

in the future. It is what it is. It has to stay that way. With Hardy, it fades or whatever, you come back and paint it. You may not want to, but you can do it. Um what is the color stability? What's the guarantee on its color stability um over time?

Yep. And I can speak from per I mean first of all again the um vinyl sighting um comes with a lifetime warranty. I can speak from personal experience on my home. Um I've been there for a little over 10 years. Um but I had a little bit of fading on some of my shake sighting. I have a trained eye. I do this for a living. I see it every day. I'm familiar with the sighting contra uh um signing sighting installer and manufacturer. Um so I probably have a leg up on the average consumer. But in my case um I submitted a claim and uh all side replaced all the sighting for me for free. Can't get better.

I mean labor was my uh expense but all the material was provided to me. Uh and they gave me a certain percentage of cost towards labor. And the Hardy Board warranty, uh, the Hardy Board warranty, uh, that only comes with a 15-year warranty, but you can pay.

You could when you look around town, though, that u isn't necessarily the case about what's happening in the real world. Um, and again, there are complexities associated with painting it starting from the get- go. you know, you're we've got units in close proximity, you deal with overspray. We've dealt with that in the past where we've damaged vehicles next door. Um you get the flashing that occurs. Um so you have people that or HOAs that have a tendency to touch up areas and then it's left polkadotted. Um I'm not, you know, it's not saying it's a terrible material. Um but in this type of environment where you've got 117 town homes and you're marketing to a low to no maintenance community um it doesn't quite um resonate with us the same way in terms of the product value.

Bottom line to to material exterior material regardless of what it is. It's the um the quality the apparent quality of the product and the the you know the buildings themselves. you're in upscale community, you're selling to an upscale buyer. Y

um and it needs to be something that will appeal will have the appropriate curb appeal to those buyers um that they're willing to pay for it and of this material. Uh, I'm, as I said, I'm there many homes in Orange Village I know of that have vinyl siding on it, and it's I've done projects myself with vinyl siding on it. But as a community, uh, the desire is to have is to represent high quality. and what is what's the best way for us to put that forward in terms of the exterior choice of exterior materials that are used in your project and I think that's that's the that's the sale of this application how we how we consider it. So yeah, I would just like to I would just like to mention one thing. When I we had a little bit of this kind of conversation at our at our last meeting and um

and and we were all sort of asked, you know, what we think he held up the photograph of of you know what what the image of this community would be given the information we had received. Um, and um, when I look at the overall drawings and the overall detail, the colors, the the black frames on this, I mean, when I look at that, I see more than just the signing. I see the whole picture as opposed to a single element. And I realize that that that that a lot of people are really tuned into the site, but I just want to say that I see the whole package as an absolutely upgraded wonderful place to live. I mean, I just think it's going to be

She's your spokesperson. I'm just I'm just saying you have to look at all the all the fabulous details that come together to make a single image. It's not one, it's the whole thing. So I I just wanted to say that

well as a as an HOA facility, an HOA product, obviously maintenance is an absolutely critical aspect of of the buildings. Uh you want to have as minimal maintenance as you can have over the life of the buildings and management of the property. Um siding is not where you want to spend all your time and money. um and shouldn't be where there should be problems experienced by the homeowner. Um I think the detail of the buildings, the the facady and the the integration of var various details that you have done is really important as Kathy has referenced um here. makes for a more cohesive and you're looking at a composition total composition instead of pieces parts and but I do think that what you said is you tested this correctly people are going to look at these homes and uh and for whatever you know I'm not the guy to sit there and say vital signing is bad and so forth but for whatever reason does have a at least, you know, presents a higher end scale.

I think that may be um a perception issue more than a reality. I agree. If you put people in front of two houses and one was with Hardy panel and one hardy siding and the other one was vinyl siding, tell me what you think the difference is. There will be none. Well, you know, he did that last the last meeting and we could tell.

Yeah, it was it was it was a white product though and that was, you know, my concern last time was the large expanse on the side of the building. Um, but I feel like this image here, especially with the white farmhouse, um, helps to break it up a little bit. And you know, especially because it's only on the side. I mean, the front I I'm not really concerned about the fronts. I think there's enough going on in there, enough detail, enough complexity, um, that you would notice a difference between the vinyl and the given the dimensions between buildings. Yeah.

You don't have, you know, I think we have so Um, go ahead.

There is some, you know, there is some of the um attempts to break it up a little bit with some accents that helps a lot. I mean, the biggest concern and one of the ways that just doesn't look good long runs and light color. So, we're avoiding that a bit. It's only going to be these are um four there's four uh units per unit. So, side most sides are I mean some of this is all people are okay

I guess at the end of the day the question is will somebody walk away because it's vinyl instead of art the other council person is she a customer yeah it it could it very well could be I Nice. Um, are there any other Anthony? Did you have any other comments or suggestions? You want to interject?

Uh, no. I think it is perceived by more of a comment of the different products than it is a visual. I think the buildings are broken quite nicely and I think it's actually appealing. Uh I don't see that the way these are developed and designed and articulated I think are uh you know creates the look and the feel of a higher end product. So they don't take exceptions in this case because they are broken out. I want to say planks or minutes. Thanks Anthony. Uh are there any public comments? Anybody want to weigh in on this? Hearing none. Um the question is before us is to approve the application of the vinyl versus uh for the exterior material. Um I entertain a motion to approve the material as the proposed vinyl 42 dimension material as depicted with black vinyl. Black window frames

and 5 in 5 in lab. So 5 in lab42 black frames. That's the motion. Do I have a second? So I'll give Jeff the motion and we'll give Kathy the second. And these these are approved. Are these approved? these renderings like I I just want to make sure we're not going back to something that's might have longer expanses.

Well, each individual ARB submitt will require its own approval. Um I'm just in a position where I have strategized through what our entire color collection will be. And so the images represented there reflect what those packages ultimately will be what we come in to gain approval for. But they're not approved. Those are not approved for you. That's correct. We're here to simply approve the colors on the materials on the model building. Don't forget colors. I'm more concerned about the penetrations. So the accents,

if I may. So So this building buildings 13 or units 13 through 16 has been approved and it is now just being modified to be allowed to be used vinyl vinyl signing. The subsequent buildings that come in of course will have those those similar I just want to be clear this building gets approved. This cluster has been approved. So we're just we're just deciding which material.

Okay. Any further comments or discussion? Well, you know, I think the motion should also indicate that building accents on the accent. So, there there's four conditions of the approval potential. 5-in lap, black window frame, 42 gauge accent on side on sidewalls. Sufficient. Good. This motion Kathy second. Okay. Dette, call the question, please. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. No. Yes. Off you go. Thank you very much. Pedal yourself out. Okay. Limping, but in a good way. I I need a little break here. Any other item number eight?

I'm letting you know this isn't Stone Brook. This is one show. That's my house. Don't take it personally. I know it cuz of the lion and I know the window. Did I put I must have put the wrong Yeah. This is orange hell. I recognize all of these houses, too. Yeah. So, so you can appreciate what I say about the people. Well, I'm looking I'm like, jeez, our windows need to be replaced. This is our living room. So, like you don't even see it cuz the trees and the bushes there. Yeah. But I like I'm a homeowner. I never heard of Hardy Port. I just know that when we went to have a power wash, power wash people said we can't do it cuz it's wood. You can't maintain it. And I said, well, I said I don't think it's wood. I mean, yeah, it's cementicious.

That's what they said. Hercules told the cement board. So, I was like, so what do we do? Because it definitely needs painting or doubling. That's you just have to find somebody who spray paint it and hope for it. You have to pay your paint your entire house. You have to strip it down, paint it. I mean, it's I mean, the irony is is it possible that the front could be this hardy and the second the side could be vinyl? Cuz I think the sides are different. The sides seem very like they don't look like this at all. It doesn't feel like like this looks like wood. I think you know you have to do probably custom corner treatments to one end to receive the Hardy and the other the other side to receive the vinyl. I don't know. I mean ours was the You're asking for the sake of your house. Yeah, cuz we we we know it needs to be I mean we don't like the looks of it.

I mean you could you could do that. You could do that. You could do that. Spray and paint it or both spray spray and paint it all. You could also do it already on the front and transition to the side vinyl on the side. It is vinyl. I think it already is. Yeah. That could be okay. Don't take it personally.

Okay. Everything else. Thank you guys.

By all this stuff, I like your

Thanks. It's a donation basket. Let me answer the answer. I can watch the next two.

Sure. I care that curious crack. My leg is dropping. Okay.

To help with contraction. I love it. I have an allterrain coming in.

How long you going to be riding? Yeah. Anybody seems [Music] small get a small size Does anybody ever really read all this um stuff in here? Jeff,

is that the notes? All the notes. Does anybody ever really read that? Yeah, exactly. [Music] There's something wrong with it. I'll be done. You need to put in Jeff. Years ago, we jimmed up what we call the beer spec.

Yeah. I need to work on this. [Music] Funny part.

I put that spec. Try to make sense of this. They see they price it. What's going on here? Pardon? The budget. Yes. Well, contractor used to donuts proposals. I like it. Do you have one of the plans

with me? What is that? [Music] Do you have the landscape revised landscaping this one? Say more should be store. [Applause] There we go. [Music]

Yeah.

Well, time's a wasting. Okay. you. Um, item number eight, Lakes of Orange Phase 8, landscaping plan, Randy Curtis, Curtis Enterprise, and Jeff. Jeff, you want to um entertain us with your computer skills? That's That's not going to go well. [Music] Hey Brandon, make it go.

Now this is this is essentially the master landscape plan. That's just for the general areas. The individual landscapes will develop by multi for the individual units when those come forward. Yeah. So, we're looking at basic landscaping that will be on the ba the per perimeter of the property at the entrances and around the detention. Correct.

Some of the streets [Applause] Yeah, they're individuals. Jeff, the areas outlined with blue dashes, those are the areas that under control.

No, that's for the that's that's honestly it's for developer responsibility. It really doesn't have anything to do with this. Yeah. Versus what what does versus what Randy

to answer your question. Uh we we're hoping that we'll be doing the landscaping around the pond area, the entrance way, uh the around by the culde-sac, the parking pad, and because of the tightness of the site, they would be installing the landscaping at their buildings, the street trees at their buildings because to put them in that would of course get destroyed. and uh any backyard uh trees that would uh subsequently go in uh later on as well. But what's depicted on here would go in by us and PY when they did it uh plus their individual landscaping plans for each of the uh uh units or buildings.

Um so I have to be a little and I like the tree selection and I think generally where the trees are a little bit later, you know, we can work just fine. Um I was a little curious when I was looking through the figures that you have on here because you know these days one of the things that we're all about preservation 25% issue or idea and um and I'm looking at these two plans this one uh L 2.0 and 2.1 and they both call out you have two different tables with 23 and 25

and and I'm curious because on the first sheet on on L 2.0 know it says uh that the 25% requirement is the 67,674 square ft and you're providing that same amount. You're providing that that 25%. On the next sheet, the second table is incorrect. It should be the second table is incorrect. It should be okay. There's no reason for that to be on two sheets.

All right. We won't worry about that at all. All right. Good. Um, so, so thank you for doing the 25%. Um, not that you don't have plenty of room to do more, but we'll take the 25%. I'm sure ultimately when the actual landscaping going in on each building, there may be some additional trees, you know, with the backyard or something like that.

And that would be that would be great, of course. Um, so the other thing that I'd like to talk about just for a minute is the front entry area. That's [Applause] the fencing and uh the landscape. So, I see how the how the trees are are sort of located in all of this, but you know, maybe part of the bigger uh picture that we just looked at. Um, and I think that your fence with your pillars is very nice. I think that your Mine is great with one exception and that is that it is very low. My notes show it in front of it. So you're typically going to have like a 6 in bed. Even those little dwoods that you're putting in there are going to get up 18 inches tall without the block and uh so you're going to be two feet up and and I'm I'm concerned about that. This is this is something that that we want a lot of these kind of signs and I think that it's a beautiful

things like we we don't have a problem raising that up. Uh well actually one foot is to uh like the stone ledge right and then you've got the ledge and then you've got that. So I I don't have a problem raising that up another 6 8 in and giving more in is not going to be sufficient either. If you're looking at putting something even as small as bay liies in there are going to grow 18 in. You're going to have 6 in of top soil and mulch. So, you're going to be up to 24 in. How high can you how high can you go with the with the sign itself?

6'4. 6'4, right? Can you go up to make that that one foot? Can you make that 30 in? Can you make that 30 in? The world is your oyster in terms of what you can do under you know more than just granular. Yeah. Does this match the other? Yeah, this sign is being built to the same design as the other ones. Ask if this what do we have landscaping wise with the other?

Oh, they they put in um Oh, I can't think of the name of you know I don't know one plant from the other. Uh I just build them. Um, they're like colorful, you know, lower plants that just sort of fill in, spread out. I don't I don't even know the name of it very to address um Cathy's understand. It looks to me like you could raise up, you know, because you have this arc center. Um, this center sign panel has an arc to it and it has two lower wings. You could bring those up a foot and line up essentially with the top essentially the top of the the cap.

Yeah, we we wouldn't have a problem doing that. I think to make the entire sign your foot higher uh possible w would take it out of proportion

and it really doesn't matter. I mean I mean I'm really only interested in giving you more space underneath that signage so that you can do something more significant than day release. I'd really like to see something that's going to give you some impact more than just the five minutes out of the year or less that they lose as you're doing that thing. Um, the other opportunity you have there in terms of landscaping, you have a little bit of room on each end and I'm very aware that you don't want to ever do anything that's going to screen that sun, but it would be you could do something a little bit more substantial on the ends. And if you raise this up, do some d in front of you if you especially like that look. But I think simply surrounding dillies doesn't doesn't really do justice to that beautiful stone and that beautiful brick and the whole fence work that you're doing. I'm also seeing that in the past what you've done with the fencing which I I love that as part of an entry feature particularly with the columns in it is that you have used some clusters of ornamental grass I think model and and I didn't see that on this and I would love to see that kind of thing incorporated on this uh as you have on on other entry webs that you've done

that I mean that's not a problem you know we've we've done them with not every single one I think they've done them like sporadically in there the picture I was recalling I was going back through I think phase seven that I was looking at and I remember we had a conversation about this and um I just think it would be it's the calling card to the community uh not just the homeowners. Um and uh I just think it would be great if that could be punched up. Yeah, we we could do that like I think it's every other one that Ben has been putting in. Well, you can do Yeah.

Right. They give it more substance, right? These are big spaces that you want in these are these are some stretches. They're about 8 foot on center and then there's there's one really long section on both ends. Right. And I get that between the columns. Yeah. Right. Between the columns, right? Right. So that would be a spot where you could do something a little bit more substantial. So you don't want them you don't want them around the column. You want it in in the center. In the centers. Right. And and where, in other words, where there's just that post as opposed to the stone columns.

I don't think that I would do any along the angle portion of the fence because you can't do it on the side where the sign is cuz it's eventually going to block the signage when you do that, right? Um, but I think back in there on that longer section and maybe where that corner is, right? You know, right in front of the trees there would be nice. So, Kathy, what about what about the freeway? Say that again. The freeway. You know, you see where the freeway is? Is right up there? You want me to Brian? You want me to plant flowers on the freeway?

Yeah. you know, more trees there. 25%. Well, you know, I just think that, you know, the more trees you do put there, the more you're going to be able to screen that off from Brian, the height differential right now is tremendous. Yeah. Yeah. Freeway. It is. It is. So, you know, you you could put twice the amount of trees there and it's not going to screen anything. You're you know you and I should live so long as those trees get as tall as the freeway.

Yeah. It just softens the action and over time it'll grow in but it'll never get within our lifime meaningful along there. By that time the this little cluster of trees if we added more in there they kill each other out each other. Well, well, I like the idea that you have these are you have some London plane trees in here, right? I think that's that's a great choice particularly where you want where you've got something large. You just want to take the view away. And I think that's a, you know, that's a good selection, you know,

but I would suspect those homeowners that are going to be living there are going to, you know, have some noise issues in that. Well, actually, I spoke with ODOT about the possibility of putting in sound barrier. They will not because when this was when 422 went in and when this development occurred, their requirements for sound barriers. They don't have an obligation to do so.

Yeah. And and you're talking about the retention pond area. If you go over there and you look at it, the retention pond is lower than this de than the actual development because that's the low end to take all the water. I mean, this thing's you giant redwoods to get to the height up there. So these trees um are are uh the sigmores are 30 ft on the center and the and these uh are the is that birch tree. Yeah. Uh the river birch um they are 40 ft on center but it looks like they have maybe spaced a little bit differently. We could use a couple more birch trees in there would be nice. Um, you know, that would that would give

Where where are you suggesting putting those Kathy? Between the three birch trees so that you'd have to grow there. What is the grid like there? Well, you're you're working in a real tight area because you've got the uh retention pond and then you've got the bank coming down and you don't want to preclude any uh total access from getting around that retention pond. So, where do you think you could add in some birch trees here for Brian? His front yard. Put some takes.

I mean, you could you could do you could do them, you know, just in a straight row or you just offset them by four or five feet. You don't have to be offset by 20 ft. You have plenty of room in there for for burseries. I mean, they can go, you know, certainly there's one little there's obviously one a couple little areas where you might um be able to do that where the culdeac I don't know if you're noticing, but this is where the retention right. No, no, no. This is the area that I was thinking. You've already got something here.

What is that? I don't know what that is. Number one is grass. Grass. Nice try there. So So they go right there.

We could probably spread these two out here. Maybe another one in between there. I'm talking about one in here and one in here that way between this one and this one over a little bit. Move this one and move this little This is a little bit wider and this little

tell you what I Kathy I think has probably some good suggestions and ideas that are worth considering. I've made a couple notes that I think are salient to this. Um I think we can We can recommend I'll just phrase it real quickly. Recommend an approval with um if there's further discussion on potential opportunities for additional landscape suggestions if they can be made uh administratively and working directly with you and Bob. That

I would like if we could we could revise that just a little bit and say that that that that you would they would give us a proposal that would include two more trees along that along that line. I'm sure they could do that. I mean, we've just we just marked it in. And you can make the trees. Okay, let's let's do that then. Um we've just marked it on board.

There were, you know, a couple other things that I heard in the course of conversation that I think are worth uh bearing in in terms of framing a a recommendation for approval subject to raising the side panel to allow an additional foot at the base. Um, add some larger plants as the ends of the the sign um structure and some ornamental grasses along the drive uh against the against the fence at the at the entryway. and then adding two more trees into the area along the highway. Yes. Does that cover it?

Yes. Thank you. I'll make that motion and and Kathy will second.

Further discussion hearing none. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Okay. Now for the the main event we've all been waiting for the entire night to get to everybody. Reason we we decided to do this in this room was because we thought that there would be a huge uh audience that would be here. Sure. you should have learned by the previous attempts

and uh and here we are all all on our own again. So, that having been said, um before we get into the what we're going to talk about, which is item 9, Walnut Hills residential preliminary development plan, I wanted to um uh introduce some information that I think is important to this group to understand and recognize and for those in the public who are here and those watching at home. Um, in order for this project to move forward last year, the developer came to the village and proposed an increase in the height and density of the project in order to be able to advance the project. Uh, that was approved at planning commission uh in the uh what was that a meeting in December? Wasn't that December, Bob?

December 3rd. December 3rd, I think. December 3rd planning commission meeting. I think we already have that. So already I made 37. You killed all the trees that Kathy just planted. I did. He used the one that Keith cut down.

But we're not going to we're not going to address that issue in the context of this development uh at this time because it's already been it's already been determined and agreed upon. We are going to consider the plan and as noted before this is a preliminary plan development approval. Uh and the requirements of the prel pre preliminary de plan approval are somewhat signific not somewhat significantly less than the details and requirements for a final development plan approval. The purpose of a preliminary plan approval is to enable the developer to allow um his team, his engineers, architects, and so forth to move the project forward and to create more detailed drawings that will become the final plan that will then be submitted at a later date for its approval. So, Mr. Bob, is there anything else you wanted to add to that? Before we leave, I got to talk to someone else.

Sounds good. Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman. I I've provided the uh commission as in the packet as well as um this evening with the the various comments from uh the uh city um village officials. Um uh Chief Gova, Fire Chief Gova offered his comments. Um but essentially you do have them there. But I will u his primary concern is regarding the lack of vehicle access to the rear of the two apartment buildings. Um uh specifically the inability to deploy aerial device in the event a rescue is required. Uh he goes on to say that that having said that um state fire code and building code allows these things under certain circumstance so that it will be permissible. Um and he's he's aware of that but he just wanted to make it make the point that that would be preferable if that could happen to have that access. The village engineer um did his preliminary review uh and offered a number of comments regarding uh potential traffic study um which he suggest should be done a few years from now. We have uh the uh the PY um project at the canyons finished and we have the other development for the commercial uh at uh at Omni finished and then this property up is running and we can have a a better handle on the actual rather than um u potential um traffic issues and have to deal with that in the future. Um, I'm going to ask um if Brian, do you want to refer to any of this stuff? You

want to take us through your other comments on that?

Well, before we get into those comments, I think it would be altogether appropriate for the developer to present the project. Sounds good. So, why don't we do that first and then we can and dive into some of the comments and concerns of the diligent professionals. So, take it away, Mr. Curtis. Okay. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Um, I have with me this evening the, uh, engineering firm an associate. No associates. Yeah,

it's late and I'm tongue tied already. You got me all confused with the trees, Kathy. You know what can I tell you? Uh, and Bowski and Associates this evening. The, you know, we looked at all the comments and have been able to address most of them. The fire department we just got this evening and we can address that as we go through the plan. But, uh, as you're aware, we've been working on this plan for almost 10 years. uh to get it to this particular stage right now. And we've come up with what we feel is a high-end development. The two apartment buildings will be built as condominiums should that never market ever change in the Cleveland area where you can do that in a multi-story building as opposed to where you have town homes. Town homes would be all for sale units though. Uh the site plan has gone through many iterations as you're well aware. We've taken into account a lot of different comments from the different planners that we've worked with at the village over the years. Uh we've tried to uh maintain certain styles that we happen to like and hopefully by the time we build this the market uh is asking for those styles or we may have to change a little bit with the architecture for the market at the time. But again, this is a preliminary plan. This is a vision that we have for it uh currently. uh from uh an engineering standpoint, we've got a very tough site to work with, and I'll let Jeff get into that in more detail, where in some places we've got 50 foot from one side to the other

going uh east to west, plus uh it undulates as you go uh north to south on it. The uh main entrance right now is coming off of Orange Place. There'll still be although we originally had a driveway along uh the shopping c center's uh parking lot uh at this point we're uh showing a walkway across there for pedestrian traffic and then going out on Walnut would be a resident only uh entrance and exit by uh transponder on a gate. Uh the roads would all be private. They'd be maintained by the association, plowing by the association, trash pickup uh by hopefully the village for the town homes as they do in other areas. The apartments would be, you know, private collection. We've got storm water uh area for retention. We've got sanitary sewers going uh through one of the parcels out to Maple Crest and then uh meaning the uh trunk main that goes down the corporate line with Woodmar. Uh water would uh loop through the property as would uh some of the other uh utilities. We've got a big grade differential backing up to some of the commercial. So, you'll see on the plans there's some retaining walls that need to be built um to make the uh grades work with the property because of the uh cross and the undulation in this property. We've also got some stone that we've got to deal with up in that area

as well. Um, at this point I'll uh have uh the architect go through it. I'm going to have Brian B. You've got Do you have yours plugged in there? Y. Okay.

Thank you, Randy. So what um we'll show you here tonight is a very similar presentation that we showed back in December, but supplemented with some additional information um regarding the for sale units on the southern side and then obviously supplemented with the civil engineering drawings. So I'll run through kind of the the first couple series of slides rather quickly since we kind of see those previously before. So just bear with me for a second while I through here. Okay, gotcha. Okay, so the plan that you see here obviously just going all the way back to 2013. This was the original kind of vision slide uh that sort of set up all of Pine Crest. Um as we know it's has evolved in different states. Um but this is really what sort of set the first marker of the project. So, as it was developed, um, you know, the first, uh, southern half of the mixeduse lifestyle center, obviously de deviated a little bit from the 2013 plan, actually increased the square footage, you know, by 150,000 ft, I believe, um, and really didn't pay any attention yet to the residential area. Of note, it did not include the Beachwood in parcel uh, as well. And it it really kind of created that surface lot behind the theater. Then sort of fast forward. Uh that was a note about the Beachwood Inn. Um fast forward. Apologize for the uh delay here.

Slowly forward. Yep. That's what is it not loading? No, it doesn't seem to be loading. It's taking a long time to load.

Cut to you have any uh tricks up your sleeve? Probably not. Whose computer is it? You don't have your computer with you tonight, do you? I do. If it would be easier to to start that isn't that our computer. Yeah. Is that Ryan? Is that on a flash drive or is that uh right now? I think this is what Bob had it load up on. I don't know if this is a flash drive or if

it's easier, we can load up this flash drive. Maybe there you think it might be easier to use this one. Cheers. You want to throw your computer in there? Yeah, it just needs to takes a second. [Music] Yes, we did.

Is it loading? We should need a new computer. The Hope your battery is good. Should be fully charged.

Probably at 6:30. Tomorrow you start up. There we go. [Music] Okay, sorry about that folks. Hopefully your mouth looks bright.

Okay, there you go.

Okay, so just fast forwarding a little bit and picking up where we left off. So, um, as I mentioned before, the when the Pine Crest sort of lifestyle center component got built, it did not yet include, you know, this portion of the Beachwood in property. So, the original plan back in 2013, it had 220 units. um really didn't pay that much attention to the topography change that Randy kind of indicated that falls 50 feet from east to west and undulates as you kind of work your way to the north. So the plan that we had presented back in uh January or I'm sorry December you know contemplated Walnut Hills Drive coming off of Ashen creating a pedestrian centered uh really streak through the property as it works it way down to the south to a forell for sale neighborhood and then back out to Orange Place. So what you see here is 20.2 2 acres, uh, two buildings, multif family, seven stories, and 159 units each, uh, for a total of 318. And then 75 for sale town homes, villages, and one. So, very similar to what we saw back in January. Um, again, just some precedent images of what we were hoping to accomplish with the apartment buildings. Um, so really walkable residential streets, bringing residents down to the ground, um, engaging in that streetscape uh, experience, providing outdoor residential spaces for them, um, as well as elevated courtyards for that, you know, outdoor living um, that we've incorporated on sort of the back sides of the buildings. So, kind of unpacking these these buildings sort of floor by floor, what you can see here is the first level. So this is the the Walnut Hills Drive going out to Sugarin over here on the left and then down to the for sale units uh to the right. Um there are 14 uh twostory

town home units um fronting the street on either side. So these buildings are basically replicas of each other just sort of mirror around the street. And then behind those units are the uh uh covered enclosed parking spaces. So, two levels sort of taking up that volume of the town home units there. And these would be two story town home units for rent. Um, and then with a center lobby for all of the units that are up above. So, as we move ourself up to the second level, again, that's the second level of the deck, the second level of those town home units, and then on the third level is where we start to integrate, you know, the double loaded corridors. These are primarily two-bedroom units. Um, per the ordinance, you know, these are luxury large units. Um, you know, quite honestly, a little bit larger than you would typically find in other, you know, neighboring communities. Um, taking advantage of the disposition of the building are some outdoor courtyard areas in each building. We envision uh the one on the west side to incorporate a pool that would be used by both buildings for those residents. And then the others being more passive recreation areas that might have some green space, some sitting areas, things of that nature. So what you see on this the third level here is another sort of amenity space that kind of connects those uh outdoor courtyards together. And as you work your way up the building, so the typical residential floor, which is really floors four through six, you get more of a double loaded corridor condition. And then where the amenity space was, additional units. And then on the top level, the seventh level, this is really the penthouse units. So these range from, you know, a single uh bedroom unit of maybe 890 ft to three bedroomedroom units upwards of 2,500. The idea here too is that these units could be customizable uh you know, depending upon who wants to uh rent those. So really kind of creating that

flexibility and that uniqueness to really give yourself, you know, personal flavor. Um, as you'll note too, the penthouse unit, you just kind of sit back from the edge of the building below and that's what you'll see in a moment to kind of give some architectural push and pull and uh, you know, some visual interest to the building. So you see here each building again 159 units total. So as you look at a site section kind of from east to west. So this would be Orange Place uh on the left hand side and then uh Maple Crest Road on on the right. You can really start to understand the drop of the land there. Um you know going from from high to low. Uh what's really unique about that is the the the properties on Orange Place it a little bit higher. So the building, you know, when you really kind of look at that from the public view from orange, it's really only a three-story building with a roof effectively the same sort of level. And it's as laying out the building as we did to put the courtyards on the east and west side really kind of breaks down the mass along that property line. So you just get the building, you know, in sort of pieces and parts. It breaks up the mass so it's not a, you know, 400 foot unbroken facade. Um, then the center area here between the two buildings is a really nice almost one to one proportion of roadway width, the building height. And you can see here how that building starts to kind of step back a little bit to allow for, you know, views and sunlight and everything down into that that roadway. And then here's a a conceptual kind of idea of what the architectural design would be. Obviously, you know, this would be flushed out uh during the final development plan, but we thought it would be helpful to see, you know, what that would be. So, sort of a contemporary architectural feel, timeless materials, you know, brick, uh, metal panel, glass, you know,

maybe a woodlook element on the top level and start to push and pull those materials a little bit. Uh, and then really, you know, I think the the key to this is is the streetscape and making that really pedestrian friendly, a median to allow for additional landscaping, wide sidewalks, you know, but set back to allow for those uh private stoops to occur on the town home areas and then kind of shifting towards the south end of the development. So, this has been updated from what we had shared in January. So, uh, what you see here on this plan is a combination of town homes sort of in the light blue kind of grouped primarily in three units together. There's some twos, um, you know, where it made sense on the site and then in the darker blue are uh, duplexes and there's one sort of solo villa, but that's really the same floor plan as the uh, duplex units. This uh totals 75 units um uh when you look at that and the the roadway is very similar to what you saw back in in January, but we've kind of tweaked and pushed and pulled the units a little bit to get adequate spacing, you know, between side to side and backyard. Um and as you'll see in a moment, kind of taking the grade into consideration. Um, also what we've done is, you know, found areas for potentially the mailboxes where guest parking would be. Although each unit has a driveway, um, you know, that can house parked vehicles. You'll find those other locations uh on site. So, we have a couple hidden parking over here by the retention basin down by the south end of the site and then some on street across from the town homes to really kind of allow that to be shared strategically, you know, around the site. and then a sightsection uh through here. So this is on the north half of that for sale area. If you can kind of see the key plan up in the upper right hand corner, you can really begin to understand how that grade really does uh

dramatically change. So the existing grade kind of following this line and then where some cut and fill would have to be to sort of balance out and make the roadway system work appropriately and where we're taking advantage of the great dips, you know, providing opportunities for basements uh to occur at the walkout level. So to really, you know, activate take advantage of that great job um great drop where appropriate. And this section is taken a little bit further south on that. So closer to uh the Pine Crest uh commercial district, you can really kind of see if you toggle between the two on the lower section, you know, how that grade changes from north to south um in addition to east to west. So we're looking at threetory units um for the town homes, twotory for the villas, the duplexes, but with some exterior space, which you'll see here in a moment. So, looking at the floor plans, uh this is our typical town home u you know, twocar garage on the lower level, uh stairways, finding opportunities to place potential elevators for all of these units. Um and then, you know, integrating Soponus rooms and a terrace to take advantage of some of the u exterior space. Ryan,

interrupt you just for a second. Can you go back to the two uh cross-section drawings because I think it's important for everybody to to really see what you know what the grade actually is. The existing you can see the existing grade lines on those two drawings and what you have to deal with in order to make this site work. Yeah, it's a substantial amount of earth earth moving that's needing to occur. What are you doing with that soil? Are you removing it from the site or are you trying to trying to cut and balance a lot of it?

It should. It we're hoping that it ends up being fairly well balanced. It also depends on how much rock is found when when we're in here and what that expansion is on that. The hope is it's mostly balanced. You know what kind of rock it is? Is it shale or what? You know what? I I don't recall. I actually thought it was some sort of sandstone. A lot of it's sandstone cuz we did some test holes and uh hit the sandstone, it's it's breakable. Uh but what's below the sandstone till we get to any harder rock, we don't know yet.

Thanks. I thought it was worth making note. We didn't got it there, but I think that's an absolutely critical um piece of information as we understand the property and how you're dealing with it

because we've got so much earth to move out there. Literally, the site is going to be cleared out to be able to do all this cut and fill uh to balance the site and try to make it workable. So, the roads aren't all that steep. There's going to be some slope in the roads of course, but to make the levels buildable till we get to the uh s uh the northern end where it's a little flatter. Although we got to deal with the hillside going up to the commercial where the western uh apartment building is and the recreation proposed area is

and digress. Go ahead. Go ahead. Great. Great points. Um, you know, so going back to the town homes, you know, the second level is really your living level with, you know, open kitchen, living, dining, potential den, uh, behind it. Again, collecting sort of the vertical circulation off to one side. Um, full bath, you know, on that level as well. So, that den could swing as a potential bedroom, guest room. Uh moving up to the third floor, uh two bedrooms here, the primary bedroom, uh suite, you know, with a large bath, walk-in closet, secondary bedroom, uh with laundry facilities, and then up on the rooftop level, you know, creating a penthouse that would open up into a terrace space. Um so when we looked at this architecturally, you know, we looked at a couple different options with Randy and, you know, how to make these things uh distinct, you know, personable. um when you're looking at, you know, rows of those together um and also looking to kind of bring a a contemporary feel, you know, into this portion of the neighborhood that would be consistent and complimentary to the the the apartment buildings. So, what we came up with were were really kind of two different schemes. Uh the first one here and you'll see some similarities but just you approaches applied a little bit differently but creating you know a masonry base to that uh you know the primary body of the building um with some sort of horizontal siding material and then expressing you know that vertical circulation component in in a glassy form that sort of wraps and encapsulates the penthouse unit and allows for an exterior you know terrace to occur. And then as that would work sort of in that three-unit module, you know, taking those same materials but changing the pallet ever so slightly, you know, so you have some uh you know, personal personal personal uh you know identity to your home compared to the next one. And then to kind of break up

that monotony, you know, of form, uh, kind of changing it up sort of like every other building form perhaps. Um, still using sort of that three-story concept, uh, with the, uh, you know, masonry base, but letting that kind of creep up, getting integrated, you know, by another kind of glassy form. And then in this respect, you take the, uh, vertical circulation, you know, make that a distinct material, in this case, you know, wood element, um, to differentiate itself. So to give some variation, you know, along that street street edge. Then moving into the duplexes and the villa, you know, we looked at two potential uh floor plans for this and little subtle variations of it. So the one on the left here is showing a twocar uh driveway and garage. Um you know, off of that, a mudroom kind of laundry facility off of your main entrance that's on the corner to allow a little bit of glass to occur there. Den space, powder room. again looking for opportunities to integrate residential elevators into these properties and units. Um then that would open up into your large kitchen living and dining and then ground floor primary bedroom uh suite with some outdoor patio, you know, right off of that and off of the living space. And then sort of the the subtlety, the unit next door would actually have a threecar uh wide uh garage um which has some subtle like variations where the mud room den. So in this case you're kind of swapping out a den for that third garage space. Then moving to the second level, uh you'd have two bedrooms, uh a den, potential loft space that overlooks the twostory living dining area. Uh and then going up one level further to again a penthouse unit with an outdoor terrace. And you know we we talked a lot about you know the extents of what that terrace wants to be and really the potential there to make it um you know as big as tenants

potentially want it to be. Um but we thought you know architecturally it was good to kind of separate uh the entranceways get a little space on the upper levels that you see here with a little roof u area in the middle. Uh so when you look at that from a mass standpoint, you know, it kind of reads as a two-story unit from the front street, but there is that third level sort of penthouse area in the back. And then in this case, you know, creating that water table again, some horizontal siding, you know, lots of glass and then expressing that uh penthouse unit with a different architectural feature. Um, as that sort of flips onto the other side, um, really kind of you can see the subtle variations of, uh, you know, the twocar versus three car and the potential for, you know, glass in a either laundry area or the den space. So, this is a an aerial kind of looking south back to the north back towards grand with the two apartment buildings there just to kind of show everything in context and how that, you know, might start to play together. I think the last time we showed this in January, you know, it was kind of the older design married with the new design. Um, so this one I think kind of tells the complete story now that we've kind of worked through this end of the same. Um, with that going to hand it over to Jeff. Jeff, do you want to talk any specifics?

I don't know really have much to say.

There's not really a whole lot that hasn't been covered. I mean really the grade is the the story there on the the first slide. Um but even really the grading plant as well. Um and Randy Ry's really covered it with utilities um as the far as the sanitary coming to the east uh over to Maple Crest. Um the storm water management over over to the east side. Um that will handle the the entire development. Um, and as far as the water main goes, it is it's been planned for and it will connect to the Pinerest development and circulate throughout the development. Um, but other than that, I I honestly think that it's been pretty well covered as far as the the civil elements. Um, but I think that the uh the thing we'll harp on is the grading. The grading is is a significant challenge and that has certainly driven the development. Yeah, we we've seen the uh engineers comments and a lot of those things are uh addressable more in the uh final plan, but I'll kind of go down through a few of the things that he had in here uh as far as uh sanitary sewer sizing. That of course would be more of the final plan for engineering drawings. uh the uh wood mirror. As far as the sanitary sewer, uh I had spoken to Ed Rand, their engineer, several times over the course of many years about bringing the sanitary sewer there uh going uh with a parallel main to the uh trunk main. It's owned by Wood Ren, which another one of uh our companies uh owns and operates and we've got the capacity for it. Um, we uh looked at snow plowing, the internal snow plowing. There's always there are areas that it would be pushed to and once it got too

large, like they do in most condominiums, they get hauled away. Um, there was a question from the service director about still plowing the uh roadway. As I said earlier, that would be done by the private uh contractors within the development and at the gate areas. Um he had a question about how would the uh village trucks get past there. You know what I had suggested was that they would be that all village uh service vehicles as well as emergency vehicles uh would have transp transponders so that they got there they the gates would flip up and of course those gates are easy breakaways. Uh I happen to know because uh one of my vehicles actually went through a gate one time and just like dropped on the ground when you touched it. Um, so the village would be plowing the uh actual rightway of uh uh Walnut up to the gate area up to the our property line, lift their blades, go through, we've got the roundabout where they can turn around, come back, go out the other way, they go through the gate, they drop their blade again and continue plowing. So, uh, it's a workable situation and we'd work with the service director to make sure the mechanics work properly. Uh, the engineers comment about the, uh, uh, roundabout, uh, having a hard surface for vehicles to go over. It uh, is well taken. we can make sure that it's got uh an area where vehicles that are large that just can't quite seem to cut a corner properly can go over the edge without damaging grass and hitting trees. Although we want to try to get as many trees in there as we possibly can. We were even thinking of putting trees

in people's driveways to increase the coverage, but that didn't work real well getting in and out of the garage. Um the uh landscape plan, we know we've got some slopes that we're working with and in the final grading we're going to be working uh a lot more with uh that the pond. Uh Jeff will work with the village engineer to make sure we've got a workable pond for the uh retention in there. The question was the demolition of the hotel. Yes, the demolition of the hotel would be done as part of the development. In fact, I talked to one of the contractors that would like to probably use it as a staging area for all the rest of the development because of all the uh mass grading that's going on. They really won't have an area to park their trucks and vehicles for quite a while until all that heavy grading and clearing is done on there. Uh as far as the uh uh comments uh from the uh arborist about changing some of the tree types, we have no problems at this point noodle different types of uh varieties of trees. Our plan is preliminary to try to get as many trees in there as we can. And when we get to getting cut off again here,

I'm shaking it a little bit. works there, right? Okay. Thank you, Brian. The uh we get to the final plan u and address all the different comments from safety and service uh and engineering wherever we've got a place to put a tree and we're certainly going to place a tree uh to get as much coverage as we can. um the comment from the fire department about uh looking to see if we can get circulation around the buildings. What I've discussed this evening with uh Jeff and Brian uh is to work with the uh fire chief on trying to address that concern the best I can. Whether we get circulation around one or both of the buildings or we work some additional uh uh that uh stair towers, you know, fire stair towers with a corridor that they would enter, they go down to as an example and can get out of the building that is fire rated so that uh people have a good access. It's going to be fully sprinkled the entire buildings as well. So, we'll work with the fire department and try to address their concerns to the best of our abilities. But, uh, knowing again, we're working on a sloping site and one of the buildings is actually cutting into that hillside. Uh, so complete circulation may be difficult, but we'll address as much access as we possibly can to that. The, uh, tree coverage right now, Jeff, what are we at? 9.12.

We're we're at 9.12. And if you look at the plan that uh he's presented, he's got trees anywhere and everywhere he could place them. And you it may decrease if we're able to put some additional circulation around the apartment buildings uh around the back sides uh for fire safety or coming down further along the sides or widening those out. But we will be placing trees wherever we can. You'll notice we don't show trees between the town houses uh the rows in the backyards because the grade until we get the final grading. Uh it's almost impossible to tell where uh how many trees we can put there that actually work that aren't going to be sitting on a middle of a slope because you do want to put some screening in there between the backyards, some fencing and maybe some evergreens or what our provides would work in there to offer uh privacy between the units. So, that's something that we'll address, try to get more coverage if possible in the final development plan. But right now, we're short on that. Um, I don't think there's much of an area to put in trees. But again, once we get to more of the final grading, we'll see exactly where we can put anything in. And if we have to eliminate some to address the fire department's concerns, we may have to eliminate some. But uh fire safety is a concern of ours as well, especially as I'm planning on moving in one of the buildings if that can happen. So um the comments on traffic uh and I you can see I addressed the the service department's uh letter on the traffic and the walkways. There are going to be walkways

on one side of the roadway. Uh then we'll connect to uh Orange Place connect in. We plan on having a walking path through to the shopping center. Um and I apologize. I didn't even look today to see if uh Walnut Hills had any pedestrian path at all or sidewalks on it, but we'll take it to an edge of our property line. And um like phase 7, if the village wants to add sidewalks uh across any other properties or have the property owners add it, uh you think you really only have the car wash property, which is paved. Wendy's, you've got the drive-thru right up on the edge of the ride ofway. Uh, and then you've got that one small office building that has its parking lot almost right up on the right ofway there. So, um, how that would work out later on, I I honestly don't know. It's narrow. The village over the millennium, I'll call it, has allowed those properties to come right up into the right of way. Um, it's almost where you can drive down the street and reach over and grab a cup of coffee at Wendy's drive-thru. And uh no mayor, I'm not going to buy the Wendy's. The hotel was enough. Um so I think I've covered as much as we possibly can on the preliminary plan uh at this point uh as far as addressing any of the other concerns. I know Jeff will look at Brian's other concerns and you know issue probably a letter at this point how he's going to try to address those in the final development plan. As I said on the fire uh department, fire chief's uh comments, I've instructed the architect when we get to our final development plan to try to work with him on that and uh also Jeff to work with them on that to see how much circulation

we can achieve or uh add some internal extra fire safety to the uh the building itself as well. some areas of rescue assistance, things like that.

Yeah, we'll we'll, you know, we want to make them as, you know, safe as internally as possible and work with the site the best we can, unless you want to give me permission to build one even taller building in the middle. First of all, I want to thank you for uh putting together such an extensive and detailed presentation for us this evening. There's a lot for us to unpack in this project. It is, as you have said, it's a long time in coming and we're glad to see it finally arrive at the village to consider. Um, there are a few areas that I'm sure are comments um that members of the panel uh might want to engage in. I'd like to before we do that uh is ask our professionals to see if there other comments that they would like to add over and above the letters that they've already submitted and their previously um made comments in the critiques of the site plan.

Terry, Mike, Ryan, Larry Bob, I have I have one. Um if if the people coming down the public coming down south on Walnut Hills, Yes. isn't if it doesn't have a transponder can't get in, how do they turn around uh and leave the site? Uh just like they do now where the where you've got the barrels up, they back up a little bit, make a Uturn

going on properties. Well, they may have to on private property, but if it's posted not a through street and just like any area where you don't have a through street and people don't listen and think they can cut through, uh, sometimes you got to do a three point or four point turn in a rightway in the street to turn around and go back out to learn the first time they go up through there. There would likely be some signage as well, you know, warning you in advance.

I think that one needs to be looked at a little bit. I think that relying on using a private another private property as a means of circulation. Um, not recognizing that people are going to go down there unintentionally and maybe sometimes intentionally and thinking they can get in or it's a shortcut to get off of Shagrin Boulevard. um is going to happen and we have you know have to be be able to get them back out. Fred, did you have anything you wanted to add?

Thank you. Um couple comments by me then I'll um turn it over, you know, ask for the colleagues on the commission to talk. Um it was mentioned of having a traffic study and I think there's now that we have a bigger overall development in this area um with the Omni development across the street the up-to-date and final um situation for Pinerest the update for the Bahama Breeze project forthcoming and your project forthcoming. I think a traffic study to look at what are all of the the traffic infrastructure that we put in what are the needs for the future and to do it right now I think is is a waste of time and money. Um I think we need to think about I believe we need to think about creating a resource to do this as the village would undertake it with a contribution from the various developers to uh to do this. So the the questions can be asked and I'm not looking for something right now but I think it's something you need to consider. Um I I think that turnaround off of Walnut Hills is is kind of critical. Um I know that you have indicated that um off of Walnut Hills on the Shabbrin Boulevard it would be right in right out only and it would be restricted to residents. Um but we need to think about what that bigger picture looks like. We don't know what and if and when Shugrin Boulevard is going to be reach its its development. Um the uh I wonder if and you haven't really probably had an opportunity to talk to

the new owners of Pinerest, the Tanganger company to see if there you know what connection can be made between your project and their project because obviously when this was originally designed they were to have been one development and finding some way to make a connection. Um, if there's a way to get a vehicle vehicular connection, that'd be great. But, uh, if nothing else, some kind of a a well-considered pedestrian connection because we know the people that are going to live there are going to want to shop and and dine in at Pinerest. So, and one last thing, and I guess I'll offer it up as a consideration for thought is sustainability and um energy uh development for the project. maybe considering photovalttaics or some other um alternative energy that might be a valuable asset to the project and an attraction to potential residents. So that's those are my comments initially. Um I will go down the panel and ask for input from my colleagues and I'll start at the end with Kathy. Uh well, I would uh just like to say that I was not here. You presented that portion of this in January. Is that right? Or December.

We did. It was uh December 3rd. Okay.

I thought that I was at that meeting, but I don't remember this. And I've got to tell you, I am just surprised given where where you started with the overall concept and and where you are now. Um and um I'm trying to wrap I'm trying to wrap my my brain around it. I like I like I especially like of this program. I especially like the first two buildings. I like the concept. I like the look of those. I think that that you know that works well. I'm concerned about the density of this area uh with the with the smaller units the smaller homes. So that's my initial comment.

Anthony I mean just get my head around it but conceptually it works. slopes of seems to be appropriate to try and utilize that to minimize the height of the building. developed there and I think like you mentioned the connection pine crust especially to walkways and you know access to the residents there I think it's important feature to consider and make sure is developed

as is as I understand it with regard to the connection that um they're required as part of their approval to provide us access actually for a roadway. Um so depending upon how that grade actually would connect to what we've got there and how much of their infrastructure they want to give up or contribute so to speak. We planned on at least having uh a nice landscape pedestrian walkway going through there because you can see they pretty well impinged upon that uh access they were supposed to provide with the parking lot and then put slots sticking in that way even further. And if you ever walk up there, you on their parking lot look over the edge, you can see there's a pretty good grade drop over there as well. So, uh yes, we'll be contacting them. Uh in fact I had a quick conversation with Adam Fisherman.

They have some obligation there. I don't think they can abdicate altogether and uh finding a way to make this better connection is I think it would be valuable. Would that be another secure connection? Like how would that work? Well, I don't know what the connection will be yet. So, oh, what is the grade difference going to be after this work is done in the area what the parking lot is?

Well, the parking lot is going to be much higher than us. You can see there's a retaining wall that's that's shown because they unfortunately without permission graded that parking lot slope into this property. So, if they want to maintain that parking lot, they're going to have to install some type of retaining to hold up their dirt. Uh, as far as the grade with the walkway, uh, the drive coming in from the hotel, actually, you get to a crest level and then you start diving down into the property. Jeff, what's that drop in there approximately? Here.

Yeah, about 5t. So, you got about a 5ft drop in the back to get to our property. Yeah. And then you've got the drop that's naturally there right now from the old Walnut Hills behind that parking lot. So, it's all going to have to be worked out in the final grading plans. Right. You saying we have stairs here, but this is this is a connection here.

Yeah. But yeah, keep going. Um, yeah, I I actually a lot of my thoughts and initial concerns uh were similar to what the mayor um immediately addressed. I think traffic's a real issue, especially with just these these two points of entry. It's it's going to be really vital to have a strong connection to Prest trying to do here. I mean, that's one advantage of the density. Um, and it it looks like it's going to be somewhat difficult with the elevations, whether it's vehicular or even the pedestrian connection. That may be kind of tough, but I I like what's happening with the grade. I thought I mean, it's it's interesting. We don't see there's not that much of this on the east side of Cleveland, I'd say. And it's it's kind of an interesting look, the town houses and and the villas and how they're incorporated into the grave. Um, you know, it's it's but it's dense and it's going to be um really interesting to see what how the roads around us are going to um deal with this. And we are going to have a dead end on one side which is a main entree. The main entries, but just right in, right out, right in.

Well, the entry point in Shrin Boulevard. On Shrin Boulevard right now, the traffic is the right turn only. People can make a left going westbound into the street. That's not prohibited uh at this time. It's difficult at times. Yeah, you got to watch the traffic. Uh but once you're in boulevard, it's widened through that area there. You know, traffic patterns may change with the turning lanes. It may that be that at some point the light that is at McDonald's gets pushed further up the street. I don't know. That's Is that something scheduled or long-term? What the widening? Yeah.

Yeah. Um I know that uh Woodmir is pursuing funding uh through the state. Uh I believe that they have they they will be moving forward. Randy, you probably know better than anybody else because your building is affected by

they they've already uh settled with us for the appropriation of property along Sugar Boulevard on our properties there and uh so it is going to be widened. When they're going to actually physically start it, um I don't have a date. They don't have a date yet. They've got some to acquire as the mayor said some additional funding. Um, but they've already had the uh I'll call it some of the softer utilities move their lines uh out of what the proposed pavement is going to be and see if it works again. Little shake here. There we go. What electric?

Uh the uh uh like our sanitary sewers that are in the roadway there were are going to be all rebuilt. They've been relined right now for water tightness and all the manholes will be redone once they finish breaking them when they redo the roadway because to do them now would be feudal. But it is in a plan and I would venture to guess probably in the next couple two years they should have construction underway. Yeah,

that I know is their uh timeline that they're really trying to shoot for cuz we've already had to cut back the canopy at the Sharin Center and get that out of the rightway cuz the two columns were sitting in the road. We offered to put a toll bridge in but they wouldn't go for it. Anything else? No, I'm great. April,

um, I think you guys have done a great job. I really I really appreciate the work you put into this package. Um, so I just have a couple comments. The the large um, multif family buildings, they look a little, it might be just the the print out, but they look a little brutalist to me. I you know where the rest of it is a little more natural and I don't know if there's some way to soften that a little bit. These these are more these are preliminary conceptual we want to go.

I understand. I'm just thinking moving forward like because I feel like I I noticed this last time too. Um, and I, you know, I know you have the wood up there, but just moving forward, it would be nice to maybe integrate some of the things that you've done at the um, the villas and whatever is down at the other side. Yeah, I think to Ry's point, there's a lot of flexibility here moving forward. Um, okay. Um, but I guess my biggest concern is, and with what my Cathy had on is the trees. Um, because that's a significant decrease obviously to what our requirements are and they would fall under there's no reason they wouldn't fall under our requirements either.

Well, I think this project has and we can talk about this down the road, but this project has a little bit of what I call grandfather to it. Okay. Because it was because it was, you know, approved under the original Pinerest development and uh but I think we want to do our level best with it to approach what our objectives and goals are for tree canopy. Is the requirement 25%. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. So I mean I know the individual lots have not been um included on this on this plan but they you know in the code that would be included right the individual lots the landscaping of the individuals right residential lots. Okay. So there is some more opportunity for

Yes. As I said, we didn't even look behind the units because of that grade until that we get into final grading plans and see what kind of room is there because we'll need swailes to pick up water so it just doesn't run into the buildings behind. U so we'll do what we can to place more trees in that area. Now, one one of the questions I had that I didn't ask, what what's the spacing um building to building and the the town houses and um [Music] just go back to the overall site plan here. So, from side to side to space,

yeah, from side to side you have 20 ft um from from building to building and then behind them 25 ft um from back to back. Pretty tight. Yeah, the only area that that deviates a little bit as you can see is where the sanitary line is coming through out into Mapler Crest. That's obviously wider to allow for that uh utility he's went down. Is there was there a density approved with the There was a fixed number. Yeah, this is actually it's come down by two units, believe it or not, from what we showed last time. Yeah. Yeah. that as I mentioned in the beginning that was that was a settled discussion last year.

Yeah. And you'll notice we did eliminate some of the single units in favor of putting in some threecar garages. But as you saw in the plan that roof area became vacant. So, we were able to provide some threecar garages, which people uh like, especially with a little larger units, because those units increase up to sometimes what 3,500 plus feet. Yeah, they're they're they're rather large. Um large, you know, almost uh with a threec car, you know, they're almost 4,000 square feet. Um when you take into consideration the penthouse level

and that does that include the garage or not? Uh that does not include the garage and the other town homes are and the town homes themselves are 3200 ft². So they're actually not small units. I knew they were around 3,000 square ft. U it's got a smaller footprint, but they have the vertical in there to work with the grade and get them up and out. Anything else? Okay, Brian, last but not least. Um, so, so yes, I like trees. Yes, I like fire protection. I know you can do both of those at the same time. Thank you very much.

Well, we don't want to have a forest fire either. Forest fire, right? Only you. Only you. Um and um you know I mean this plan certainly substantially does what you showed us in December and you know all the you know so that's that's I you know it is what it is density issues all the other things but um saying all that you know I I I I do like the way the thing lays out as far as the the buildings and so forth. as far as the apartment buildings and that kind of stuff. Thank you.

Is that it, Brian? That's all I have. Wow. Blew me away. Um,

well, as I said, there's an awful lot to unpack unpack here and in order to um uh put together a intelligent u approval with appropriate conditions. I think that uh I'd like to table this for the meeting on the the 19th and we can finalize um our comments there. It'll give everybody a chance to give further thought to to look at further look at the plan and give some further thought to some of the conversation that we've had here this evening. Um we'll hopefully be able to have it in the other building. We didn't have the audience I had expected we would have this evening. Hopefully everybody's watching at home on their YouTube.

So, um I want to thank everyone for their patience this evening. Oh, well, first of all, we need a motion to the table. Um motion from Brian and second from Jeff. Uh any other further discussion on it? No. Dette. Mor. Yes. Yes. Lazar. Yes. Lights. Yes. Yes. They're fine.

Yeah. Thank you. As I said, um or beginning to say, I wanted to thank everyone for their patience and perseverance tonight. This has been an unusually long meeting. I remember a few of these that were on Kathy's watch since she would have adjourned probably an hour and a half ago. And we never would have gotten to this. excitement. So, uh I appreciate everybody willing to stay, particularly air professionals and uh and staff. And uh thank you all for for coming and we'll do this again soon. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. First on the agenda, please.

Uh Brian, you have the I do. You can keep those. They're suitable for Friday. Thank you for uh spending your time with us this evening. Thanks for all the hard work. All right, Bob, what do you got? You got 10 years worth. We still have stuff to do here. We're not adjourned yet. Um building officials reporting. That would be you.

That would be me. Still me. Uh so we have I am sorry to say another oh nineish um item meeting next time. Um we have four um of the of pies uh four unit buildings for canyons are coming at the next meeting. All right. So some consistency there. Um we have a um some solar panels um on on West Ash which is going to be kind of interesting because they want to have them visible from the front of the street. Planning commission has the authority to approve that under certain they have to they have to they have to justify that there's no other way to do it um effectively. So they're going to um and the HOA is implied in the conversation that I have that I hasn't put in writing yet that they're going to be supporting that. So we'll see uh exactly how that progresses. I'm waiting for the actual paperwork before I put them on the agenda. Um uh the uh we'll have Omni um uh tour um has submitted uh their plans. uh so uh then for their fund development plan for the the Omni site. So that's going to be a further complication. They do get all of this set up with uh with um with Gary's revisions and Brian gets through them. Um, I I'll go ahead and put them on the agenda, but we may not have a final development plan and commercial plan for them to then be approved uh on the agenda. So, we'll see

how that goes. Um, we have uh the orange uh plaza monument sign is coming back. That has been submitted. Uh, we have a new dwelling on Emory. Uh, and all in all, that's pretty much it. So, only game days. I can't imagine there's another topic for discussion this evening. Andy's coming back, too, of course. Yeah. So, that's another one. Yeah. Uh, Randy and Gary aren't weren't in that list that I just went through. So, so there's really

Yeah. So, we're looking at at least a We have here today 10. Um, any other topic for the good of the commission minutes? Motion on the approve. Second. A motion and a second on the minutes. Uh, any comments or questions? I can't attest to them. I wasn't here. So, I can She does a nice job. She does. She does a very thorough job. very pleased with the work that we produces. Um, Danette, sure. Maria,

yes. Ski, yes. Lazar, yes. Lights, yes. Fitz, yes. Mayor Klein, okay, meeting. Thank you. We're taking that away from you. Yeah, it's the first time I'm ever organic.