City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. We're going to call the City of Orange City Council meeting regular meeting Tuesday, August 25th, 2026 at 630 p.m. To order. Roll call, Kaylee.

Council Member Stafford. Here. Council Member Darmst. Here. Council Member Knight. Here. Vice Mayor Grimm. Here. And Council Member Richardson is appearing via phone.

Can you hear me, Council Member Richardson?

And then Council Member Don Tiamson is also appearing via phone. Can you hear me, Council Member Tiamson?

Yeah, I'm here.

And then Mayor Marks.

Here, okay, we're all here. Please make sure that your microphones are in front of you and turned on so that the council members on the phone can hear you also. Okay, number one, absences. 1A, shall the absence of Mayor Kelly Marks from the July 28th, 2026 regular city council meeting be excused? I'm looking for a motion.

Make a motion to excuse.

Hold on a minute.

We skipped over the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. Sorry about that.

Thanks anyway, okay? I got all these notes on here. Okay. Invocation Pledge of Allegiance is by Mike Carroll, Volusia County Sheriff's Office. Please rise.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Lord, we are grateful for these men and women who serve so faithfully to the city. Thank you for them. We pray blessings upon them. We pray strength and encouragement upon them. Guide them, give them wisdom, give them understanding, and give them insight. We pray for our first responders that you would bless them, that you'd watch over them and keep them, that you would protect them as they serve. We speak peace over them and over their families as well. Bless this city. Strengthen this city. Cause this city to prosper, we pray in the name of Jesus.

Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Okay, let's try this again. One a absence is one a show the absence of Mayor Kelly marks from the July 28 2026. Regular City Council meeting be excused.

Madam Mayor, I make a motion to excuse you from the July 28 meeting.

I second we have a motion we have a second. Any public comment on this? The and none will bring it back for the question.

Council Member Richardson? Yes. Council Member Darmes?

Yes.

Council Member Knight? Yes. Council Member Thompson? Yes. Council Member, I'm sorry, Vice Mayor Graham?

Yes.

Councilmember staffer Mayor Marks.

Yes. Okay, and the absence is excused going on to one be Show the absence of councilmember Don T absent from the July 28 2026 regular City Council meeting be excused.

I'm looking for a motion madam mayor I'll make a motion to excuse Don T. Amson from the July 28th meeting.

I second we have a motion We have a second any public comment on this? Seeing none, we'll bring it back for the question.

Council Member Darmes? Yes. Council Member Knight? Yes. Council Member Tiamson?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Graham? Yes. Council Member Stafford?

Yes.

Council Member Richardson? Yes. Mayor Marks?

Yes. And the absence is excused. Moving on to 2A, presentations and proclamations. We are asked to move up 2B to above that, if that's okay with the council, for the proclamation of prayer above the stormwater mitigation. We just need a head nod from the council. Okay with that? Okay. All right, so we're gonna move on to 2B. I mean, yeah, 2B. Mike Carroll, Volusia County Sheriff's Office. You want us to come up there?

Okay.

Just make sure you read into the microphone so they can hear you.

Thank you.

Thank you all for coming.

Before we do this, can we introduce everyone that's here?

Absolutely.

Phyllis Bartle, rector of St. Jude's and a parent of Orange City.

Mark Sears, pastor of Volusia County Baptist Church in Orange City.

Greetings. Mark Schrade, City Sanctuary Church, Deland, Florida.

Mose Hawkins, Senior Pastor, No Limit Praise Tabernacle, Deland, Florida.

Pastor Hawkins lives here in Orange City. Oh, wow. There's several pastors that could not be here, and I want to acknowledge them. The pastor at St. Ann's Catholic Church, and then Pastor Ryan at United Methodist Church in Orange City, Pastor Kel Yeager at Emmaus Lutheran as well. And they were not able to be here. And then Chaplain Milton Carrera, who you've had here come several times to pray as well, he was not able to be here as well. So I just wanted to make sure you're aware of them as well. So if I could read the proclamation and have a prayer afterwards, that's okay. Thank you so much. Whereas in 1 Timothy 2, 1 and 2, the Bible instructs us as pastors to pray for all people, to ask God to help them, to intercede on their behalf, to give thanks for them, and pray for all who are in authority so that we can live peaceable and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. And whereas in Romans 13, 1, it says, for all authority comes from God. And those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. And whereas in Proverbs 11, 11, it says, upright citizens are good for a city and they make it to prosper. And whereas in Jeremiah 29, 7, it says, and work for the peace and prosperity of the city where I sent you. Pray to the Lord for it, for its welfare will determine your welfare. So as pastors and citizens of this community, we commit to pray for this city and its people. And with God's help, we make these proclamations blessings and prayers on behalf of Orange City, its citizens, and its leaders. We pray for God's peace, for godly wisdom, for strength over our mayor, city council, city manager, city clerk, city attorney, and every governmental office official and employee. We pray that God will watch over, bless, and protect every school, every student, and strengthen every teacher and administrator. We pray for God's protection over our first responders as they serve. Give them courage, strength, and wisdom in every situation. We pray that God would surround them with his presence and grant them peace at home and on duty. We pray that God would guide, encourage, and speak peace to every medical professional. and every care provider in our city. We pray that God would place a hedge of protection around our city and guard every home, school, and workplace from harm, and that God's peace and safety would cover our city always. We pray God will bless the economy of our city, that he will provide opportunities for employment and financial stability for this city and every person and every family within it. God, we pray blessings over every person and family in our city. Strengthen marriages, guide parents, protect children, prepare our children for future leaders who will shape our city according to your will and your wisdom. God, we ask you to bring peace to every troubled heart and to heal those battling anxiety, depression, and despair. And we pray that God will continue to build this city on justice, mercy, and integrity. God in our city, let your kingdom come and let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

I, for one, am overwhelmed at this ministry and Brother Carroll and what all that he is doing here in Orange City and Volusia County. And I've never seen a chaplaincy take this kind of hands-on help and assistance. So, wow. Thank you. And thank you, city. Thank you. Let us pray. Now, Lord, everything that is written on there, oh, the wisdom of asking. You said that we have not because we ask not. And so, Lord, these things that we're asking for tonight, ongoing, I pray that you would continue to meet the need. And Lord, I pray for these leaders that are here before us. Lord, I pray that your hand of protection be upon them. Lord, you granted wisdom to Solomon when he asked for it. I pray, Lord, that they would seek your wisdom. And Lord, you said you would not withhold that wisdom. You would give it. And so, Lord, I pray you who said that you're able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we could ask or think. I pray, God, that you would bring blessings upon as a result of our reaching out to you and asking for your help. And, Lord, as these leaders acknowledging this moment, So, Lord, we're not here to take their time. But, Lord, we are before the King of kings and Lord of lords. So I ask you now that you would do what only you know needs to be done. And so, Lord, I pray that you would bless this evening. Bless the chaplains, the 17 chaplains under Brother Carroll now. I pray that you would watch over them. Thank you, Lord, for the privilege of serving you. Until we see you one day, face to face, help us to be faithful. And may Orange City be a gleaming light in Volusia County, I pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

Thank you.

shuffle shuffle shuffle

Wait, we can move up a little and put the tall guys behind us, right? You can do it.

Come on down. All right. There we go. There we go. There we go.

Does that work? There we go. See, we got it. Herding pastors. Yeah.

Thank you all for coming.

Thank you all for coming. That was awesome. It's just nice to see everybody come together like that. Okay, we're going to go back to to a stormwater mitigation strategies presentation. Mayor Nancy Miller of Daytona Beach Shores is presenting.

Good evening, mayor, council members, vice mayor, staff, residents. I'm Nancy Miller. I'm the mayor of Daytona Beach Shores, but I'm here this evening representing the Volusia County elected official stormwater mitigation and flooding subcommittee. I am just so honored to give thanks to your city manager, Christine Davis. So what this is, about a year and a half ago, we realized what a problem we were having with flooding. So we got together the 16 municipalities in Volusia County. Previously, everyone was working on their own. And we were understanding that maybe some cities were solving their flooding problems by putting their water onto another city. So now we're working all together. Christine has been instrumental, letting us know what lessons you have learned here in Orange City. So I want to talk a little bit about the committee, what we're doing. Again, it's to share ideas, best practices. And I'll talk a little bit about the Transform 386. I'm happy to say, as of tonight, over $400 million has been approved to give out to homeowners, to cities. And I'll talk a little bit about what your wonderful city is doing. And I understand that you were very, very much affected by the flooding. In fact, did you not lose your city hall? So anyway, so yours was even more. And I want citizens to know, and I go a lot of places and people say, well, nothing's being done about the flooding. That's the reason why I'm trying to go to every city in Volusia County and say, yes, things are being done. And I want to say specifically what's being done in Orange City. So I want to let you know that the subcommittee is a collaborative countywide initiative to address flooding that includes the county and all of our municipalities. want to take the opportunity to highlight some of the projects that are going on right here in orange city and i'm hoping that your residents are aware of these projects the first one is the mill lake and industrial park pump station it will significantly increase storm water pumping capacity and improve how water is moved out of the area helping alleviate flooding like orange city experienced during hurricane ian in 2022. Also in the process of conducting the Rhode Island and Graves Avenue Basin Flood Study, which is evaluating draining conditions and developing potential migration alternatives to reduce flood risk in that area. Together, these efforts are increasing known flooding concerns while also engineering and data analysis to identify solutions that can better protect the community from future storm events. And I wanna stop right there and say, this is just a beginning. Is this gonna solve all the issues all over Volusia County if we would have another storm? Absolutely not, but I think there was a lot of things that maybe we weren't proactive on in the past eight, 10, 12 years, and now we're focusing on it, and this is our first step. And I'm so happy to announce through Transform 386 alone in Orange City, $15.5 million, so $15 million has been allocated toward these efforts in addition to extra funding provided through other sources. So congratulations, staff, city manager, mayor, vice mayor. It was through your effort that you received this $15.5 million, along with other resources. Is that enough? I'm sure it's not. If you've done a stormwater plan, you know you need millions and millions of dollars. And the county's here to help you partner with you. So I wanted to let you know the projects that you have done, they represent the careful planning by your staff and engineering work and the partnership with the county that's helping identify long-term solutions to flooding challenges throughout all of your community. But this is just an example of the 28 infrastructure projects and 28 basin studies that are currently underway all across the county. I want to take this opportunity to highlight an exciting new resource that was launched last month through the collaborative efforts and the partnership of Volusia County, our subcommittee, and all 16 municipalities. So this is called a stormwater resilience dashboard. And Christine, you've heard us talk about this a lot. We want to make sure that residents know that things are being done. So I'll explain a little bit what it is. But the bottom line is you can go into this tool and put in your address so your residents can do that. And it will hone down to exactly your area, what maintenance projects are going on, what future projects are going to be there. So we don't want anyone thinking that we're not going to do anything. This tool is going to help you do that. It's a capital improvement project. You'll be able to look up watershed studies or the routine maintenance. So we want to make sure that we are doing maintenance. And when I go across the county, every time I see someone in a ditch, I'm going, yay, we're cleaning out ditches that I never even noticed before. so the dashboard is going to provide a new level of transparency into the work that's happening in this city and throughout the county so i encourage everyone to explore the dashboard it can be found under volusia.gov from the very beginning our subcommittee has recognized that flooding doesn't stop at city limits and neither should our efforts to address it this dashboard the studies and ultimately all the projects are examples of what can be accomplished when our local government work together towards a common goal again working together sharing best practices and lessons learned we're going to be continuing to share ideas and coordinating our planning will build a stronger volusia county so i want to give you a better look there's a short video right now well i forgot to say too that i'm just the co-chair of this committee along with volusia county at large jake johansen that could not be here this evening so i'm here representing this tool so kaylee are you ready for the video thank you

When it comes to flooding in Volusia County, the problem goes beyond a single jurisdiction and the challenge isn't just water, it's coordination.

Stormwater systems cross city boundaries, funding programs overlap, and decisions made in one place often affect communities downstream.

That's why Volusia County and all 16 of our cities participate in the elected officials roundtable flooding subcommittee.

This group exists to ensure elected officials and key staff are talking to each other, sharing information and making informed decisions with regional perspective, not in isolation.

It's all about aligning priorities, understanding constraints, and recognizing how individual actions fit into a larger system.

The subcommittee focuses on shared standards, coordinated planning, and consistent approaches to stormwater management.

Members review flooding hotspots, discuss regulatory frameworks, coordinate stormwater studies, and identify opportunities to pursue grants together.

That collaboration helps avoid duplication, improves competition for funding, and ensures resources are used where they can have the greatest impact.

That collaboration and coordinated approach is already producing results.

Through the federally funded Transform 386 initiative, local governments across Volusia County have secured funding for more than 25 stormwater infrastructure and mitigation projects, as well as 30 stormwater studies, totaling over $110 million.

These investments reflect shared planning, data-driven decision-making, and regional cooperation.

While long-term planning is essential, day-to-day operations still matter and the flooding subcommittee also focuses on maintenance.

We work with our cities and Volusia County to continually maintain stormwater infrastructure clearing drains, managing ponds, and improving the flow, all to reduce flooding impacts whenever possible. This work is transparent, happens in the open, and is making a difference.

Subcommittee meetings are open to the public and updates are shared through news releases, social media, a dedicated webpage, and the flood and stormwater mitigation newsletter.

On behalf of Mayor Miller, I would like to thank the leadership and elected officials from each city for supporting and participating in the subcommittee. No single local government can solve flooding alone.

But when we work together, share responsibility and stay engaged, we're all better positioned to manage risk, build long-term resilience and serve the collective community. Thank you so much for having me this evening. Congratulations on all the work that you have done, and I hope to see many more plans and more funding that can come along. Thank you.

Thank you. That's exciting, right, Council? Very much so. Absolutely. Okay, we're going to move on to 2C. Haven Link Proclamation is gonna be read by Vice Mayor Grimm.

City of Orange City, Florida proclamation, whereas Havenlink is a free civic technology platform founded by students at Trinity Preparatory School in Winter Park that guide prospective adoptive parents from their first question through the day a child comes home, and whereas Havenlink has never charged a family for its services and has served more than 1,000 users, connecting 200 families with licensed adoption agencies, and whereas Havenlink works with more than 30 licensed adoption agencies across 32 states and five countries, and whereas Havenlink holds partnerships with UNICEF and the United Nations Population Fund, recognizing rarely extended to an organization founded by high school students, and whereas Havenlink is led by co-founders Asad, ooh, Sadiq, and I'm not even, Arif Gupta, I got that one, who built and continue to run working national platform while still in high school and whereas Havenlink has carried this work into the public square presenting to cities councils and Central Florida briefing state legislative offices adopting policy and where at the work of Havenlink has been recognized by WF TV channel 9 box 35 spectrum news 13 the Orlando Sentinel published commentary from the organization on July 22nd, 2026. And whereas Florida has more than 20,000 children in foster care and clear information about the adoption became harder for residents to find after House Bill 1083 closed public photo listings on July 1st, 2024, making the free guidance Havenlink offers more valuable. The families, whereas the founders of Havenlink have given their time to this work without compensation, have kept the platform free to every family who uses it. Now, therefore, I, Kelly Marks, Mayor of the City of Orange City, and on behalf of the City Council, do hereby recognize Havenlink for their contributions to the community. Thank you.

Havenlink is unable to attend, is watching virtually, so let's just give them a round of applause. you so thank you so much Thank You vice mayor thank you okay we're moving on to number three citizens comments Daryl Victor Connecticut corner update

Good evening, counsel. Daryl Victor, Thompson Bungalow on Connecticut Corner. It feels good to say that. I'm going to start off with a quick antidote because three minutes is very short. I had a historian from DeLand confront me a little bit the other day spouting about DeLand has a better history than Orange City. I had to drop the mic moment and tell him, can you name one person in DeLand who's on American currency? So for you folks watching at home, look it up on the internet. So Orange City does have someone on American currency. So what I handed out today is just an update on Connecticut Corner and why the history of Orange City is so important. The first photo is from Orange City, from our archives. You have some locals pointing guns at each other in front of, in Blue Springs. We know this picture was taken in Blue Springs. but the picture behind it is three women and these three women this collection was found in the GUNN museum in Connecticut in the West collection as somewhere in Florida so for over a hundred years these photos have not been recognized and we were able to compare and you'll see I drew a blue arrow the tree has fallen it's the same tree we have now shown the museum that is Blue Springs so we have now found a whole cache of photos of Orange City. She's like, we have more in the basement, so we're hoping we can find more. I'm speaking quickly because I'm running out of time, but in the next photo, we have a picture of Abigail Gunn, who lived at 209 North Levitt Avenue, just down the street here. I have the blue arrow pointing to her, and that's her house. We've talked about this before. Those are the Wests that are sitting with her. What's very important is the next photo, and these are in the Connecticut collection at the museum, is this picture of Abigail Gunn right here. This one is very exciting for those looking at home, and you say, what's so exciting about it? Well, what's behind her is the only picture we have that's in existence of Levitt Grove. That's it. I know it's not much, but that's what Levitt land looked like. So it's a start. We're hoping that there's more. But so people know that this is the famous 1158 photo with all the top women in there is Abigail Gunn and Madame Levitt are right next to each other. So this is the reason why Orange City deserves a museum. We have enough history, strong, strong history. Orange City women had the right to vote before anybody else in 1917. We had universal suffrage. I'm out of time. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thanks for sharing. Okay, we have a couple other citizen comments, but they go to an agenda item, so we're going to hold off on them. We're going to move on to the consent agenda. and I'm looking for a motion for the consent agenda.

Chair, I'd like to. For B, regarding the ratify construction change order, I did speak with city manager because I wanted to try to better understand why that extra money was needed, and if it was found before, during, or after the construction, and it was something that they found during construction, so it's already been remedied. So I just wanted to point that out. So are we pulling that item to discuss it?

No? Okay. You just wanted to clarify? Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. Okay. So I'm just looking for a motion.

Madam? Madam Chair, I make a motion that the consent agenda is accepted.

Second. We have a motion, we have a second. Any public comment on this? Seeing none, we'll bring it back for the question.

Council Member Knight?

Yes.

Council Member Tiamson? Yes. Vice Mayor Grimm? Yes. Council Member Stafford? Yes. Council Member Richardson? Yes. Council Member Darmes. Yes. Mayor Marks.

Yes and the consent agenda passes. Moving on to number five ordinances first reading we have none. Number six public hearing ordinances second and final reading we have none. Number seven resolutions we have none. Number eight discussions and actions. I'm going to ask the council if it's okay if we move up the 8B to the top regarding the consideration of sponsorship requests for University High School Homecoming Parade and Pep Rally. That's okay with y'all? They had asked for that request, okay. All right, so we are gonna, Lizette Santiago, is she here? Yeah, she is here. Special events coordinators present for this sponsorship.

Hello, good evening, mayor and council. This evening, I present to you a special event and sponsorship request from University High School for their annual homecoming parade and pep rally, scheduled for Friday, October 2nd, 2026. This has been a longstanding tradition for University High School and the Orange City community. The event brings together students, families, school organizations, and community partners to celebrate homecoming and show their school spirit. University High School estimates approximately 1,500 attendees and participants for this year's event. I did want to highlight one significant change to this year's event. Historically, the Homecoming Parade has traveled along US 1792, beginning near East Wisconsin Avenue and continuing south toward Rhode Island Avenue. This year University High School is proposing a new route that removes the parade from US 1792. The proposed parade will instead utilize South Rhode Island Avenue and West Side Parkway adjacent to the school. The parade would begin near West Side Parkway, travel to South Sparkman Avenue, and then return to the University High School campus. This keeps the parade much closer to the school and off of the major US 1792 corridor. We anticipate that this change will significantly reduce the traffic impacts associated with the event and possibly lessen the city resources needed to manage a parade on a major thoroughfare, while still allowing the school and community to continue this annual homecoming tradition. University High School is requesting the city's $1,000 in-kind sponsorship allowance toward city services for the event. The current estimated resource cost is $4,560, consisting primarily of police, fire, parks, and public works personnel. After application of the requested $1,000 sponsorship, the remaining estimated cost to the organization is $3,560. Staff is bringing the special event and sponsorship request before council tonight for consideration and approval.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Council. Any discussion on this matter?

Are they going to allow parking at the school for people who want to watch the parade? Like how is the parking situation going to work?

Yes, I believe parking is going to be at the school, and I apologize. We have a meeting, a logistic meeting tomorrow with the school to kind of tighten up all those things. But yes, there's going to be a parking area, I believe, where the students park in the student parking lot. That's where there's going to be public parking. And then, oh, you know what? Let me bring it back right here. Yeah, right where it says parade end, that's where spectators and the public are going to be allowed to park. And then I've also kind of put on there, you know, possible spectator areas. We've, you know, driven the road with speaking to the high school and police and everything. That's, you know, safe areas to have spectators.

Great, thank you.

Yeah, that was one of my concerns was parking, because I was thinking when we have it on 1792, they're parked in all the businesses all the way down 1792. And I'm thinking this is right around the football, where the football game is and all the parking back there. Can we speak to the principals?

Yeah, yeah.

I haven't met him in person. I think it'd be... Yeah, I just wanted to, if you could explain a little better where the parking's gonna be, because I know it kind of says on there, but it's, you know, where the football games are in the back, obviously, the student parking in the front, which the students are gonna take a lot of. Football's over here. Yeah, thank you. We probably have a pointer.

Football's over in this area, obviously, in the middle of the track. When we spoke to the police,

Hold on one second. Can you hear that on the council people on the phone?

So there's a lot of area alongside Rhode Island. Yes, I'm thinking it is. Maintain that, allowing people to back in and park alongside the road. Obviously, if we need to, we'll have that student parking. We're really hoping because we are shortening the school day. much like what the land does now. We're wanting to build that type of community and the excitement around homecoming. So school does end halfway through the day, letting kids, we're gonna have a big party in the school. Mr. Houghton, who is our head of our SGA, just gonna have a fun-filled event from noon till four for our kids. The other concern is I have the

housing development right there because I know we've had some complaints about people parking on the side of the road in front of their place and I know I haven't been back there to see but I know that y'all have changed the school boards changed like the loop and all that I heard it's very good by the way so I don't know how that affects the neighborhood there I know they have another entrance that was part of the meeting with the police and the fire department you know going in front of

that one entrance there but we are not taking it by I had originally hoped to go by the middle school to get them involved but because that would really block that entire neighborhood we couldn't do that so that's why we're keeping it on Westside and Rhode Island okay well I think uh the our staff was pretty competent to figure out the logistics but I just wanted to kind of put that out there um does any of the council women on the phone have anything to say

I have a quick question. Go ahead. I just wanted for the record, Lucette, Santiago, did you say that the total monetary was, can you repeat that amount? Because I don't know if that was a typo on the agenda or if I just heard it differently.

$4,560. $4,560.

Yeah, I'm seeing $4,610. So I guess the fee waiver that we're subtracting from that, is that what that is?

No. Once we subtract the $1,000, then it's $3,560.

We have $4,610.

Looking at the agenda item, it says $4,610. So I just wanted to double check because it looks like that's the difference. Is that something that?

Yeah, I mean, I double-checked it this evening, so I want to say the 4560 is correct. It was probably a typo on the agenda. I remember we added, I think, police or fire. Let me look at it here.

It's the $50 special event application fee waiver, so that might be what it is. It just needs to be subtracted instead of added. So that's what's on the agenda item. I'm looking at it now, and that's what I think it is. Is that the difference?

$50, right? Yes. Is that the difference? Yes. Okay. Correct. Yes, and they paid that. So that was probably the... All right, so it should be...

45 okay.

Yes Okay, sorry about that Also, I wanted to just say you okay. I also wanted to say that with the with the the housing and there's we've there's some businesses there like there's a daycare and then the 7-eleven is there too I'm gonna You know draft up some letters and go by and let them kind of know what's happening that they do for so pick up for their kids and You know 7-eleven too because it's that rope, you know, it's gonna be closed there So the only other entrance I think is around the block Yeah Council on Stafford.

Yes.

I'm trying to understand this. Okay so the balance doctor $1,000 of in-kind services and school is going to be responsible for that amount or can we do my question to counsel to you guys and to staff are we going to have the school pay any money directly to the city for that service go ahead

based on what i'm reading the requested in-kind services is now four thousand five hundred and sixty and if you approve the motion you would be approving not only the thousand that the policy allows for but the recommended to cover the four thousand five hundred and sixty so to make it clear no monetary it's all in-kind it's all in-kind but that's what i wanted to make sure didn't have to pay anything but the fifty dollars

Any other discussion from the council?

When we make a motion on this, do we need to clarify that amount?

The $3560? It's going to be $1,000 plus the $3560 equaling the $4560 in-kind services.

Okay.

Go ahead, you wanna do it or?

Sure. I'd like to make a motion to approve the sponsorship and special event SPC 07264590 for University High School 2026 Homecoming Parade and Pep Rally.

We don't have to say the amounts, we're good? Attorney? Okay. Okay. We got a motion. We got a second. Any public comment on this? Seeing none, we'll bring it back for the question.

Vice Mayor Grimm? Yes. Council Member Stafford? Yes. Council Member Richardson? Yes. Council Member Darms?

No.

Council Member Knight? Yes. Council Member Thompson? No. Yes. Mayor Marks.

Yes. And the sponsorship for University High School is approved for in-kind for $4,560. Thank you. Thank you. Shuffle in here. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna move back up to eight a adopt budget amendment resolution number 458 dash to six and approve work order number 360 dash to six with Jones admins and associates for SRF facilities plan for Rhode Island and industrial park flood improvements. Resolution number 458 dash to six Mr. Waters, please.

Thank you madam air. This is resolution number 458 dash to 6. This is a resolution of the City Council of the city of Orange City Florida amending the annual operating budget for fiscal year 2025 2026 by adjusting revenue and expenses repealing all resolutions are parts of resolutions in conflict here with providing for severability and providing for an effective date.

And John McHugh.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Excuse me. If I could start, I'd just like to say Magdalia was going to be here tonight, but her mom's in a bad way. And so for anybody who feels the need, please say a prayer for her because it's in that stage right now.

Can you state your title?

Yeah, my name is John McHugh. I'm the Interim Utility Services Director. And when I got here, I took on the process of starting to understand all the projects that were out there and there are many and this is timely to what Mayor Miller had just talked about so what we did was we looked at the all of the stormwater projects that were going on in the industrial area and the extension out to the borrow pit and with the stormwater project that the SRF loan funded from Rhode Island and Veterans Memorial it was initially a standalone project it was going to put some swales Some tiger dams and things like that to prevent the flooding up at the veterans in rhode island intersection intersection So we were kind of looking as to why it would be standalone and in the brainstorming sessions we had We came up with an idea of linking it to the um To the storm water system that was being developed in the industrial drive area the mill lake and the borrow pond Not leaving it standalone but making it a part of what we're referring to now is a backbone storm water system And what we did was we went and we had a meeting with SRF, the director of the SRF loan program, and Amy Phillips who's the loan administrator. And we explained to her our concept of what we were wanting to do with the funds on this. And they all agreed 100%. So what we did was we got Jones Edmonds involved because they were the ones doing most of the work down in the industrial drive area. I believe they're also involved in the basin management studies that the county are conducting in that area. So if you go to that next slide for me, please. So the original project, it's kind of hard to see on this figure, but it's that red line with the arrows on it. So the corridor of the project was simply on Rhode Island. So when we were looking at that, we were wondering what was gonna happen at the end of the project corridor. and we found that it would probably be better if we could use it to improve the pumping capacity of the stormwater system for industrial. If you go to the next slide, that would probably be, This is what we've come up with so if you see the red line extends down to Levitt goes across Levitt and it comes back to the back side of the public works. Aquifer recharge and stormwater ponds and by placing a pump station there the yellow line will let you see the yellow line is part of the mill Lake project project. and eventually is going to go up north, we don't have it on here, and then work its way out to the Borrow Pit. So what this does is this allows us to move all the water from Rhode Island Veterans Memorial all to that same system and create a backbone for it. The lot above the red line on the corner of Veterans will have a development on it. I think there's another development coming across the street. There's issues with John Knox Village and some of the other areas on the east side, excuse me, on the east side of Veterans Memorial. So what this does is also provide us a future capacity. So we're gonna put, what our recommendation is, and SRF agreed with it, is we're gonna put a underground stormwater line Long Rhode Island, Levitt, back to the pond. And then eventually the connections are gonna be made from the developments and quite possibly, most likely, John Knox Village into there. So that water then comes from all that area and flows out to the pond. Next slide, please. What we are asking for here is to bring Jones Edmonds and McDalia are going to be preparing the facility plan, which is the first step in the process for the SRF loan program. And that plan will identify how we're going to go about building out that backbone. It increases our pumping capacity, like Mayor Miller was talking about, and it'll be able to allow us to move much more water out of the industrial drive area. Since the loan was originally given for infiltration issues with the sewer system in industrial drive, we thought it was kind of important for us to connect it to there so that we could actually move the water out. and prevent it from infiltrating or causing intrusion into our sanitary sewer system. Let me go to the next slide, see where we're at. So what we're asking for is the budget amendment, which is gonna bring Jones Admins on. That's gonna develop our facility plan, which is gonna be due very soon. And once that plan is done, then we go into the design phases. All of this is within the same amount of funding that was originally granted to us, and it's a 100% reimbursable grant. I think I'll leave it at that. That's basically what the project is now.

I have a question for you.

So open for questions.

So I think it's great that you found a place to move the water, because that's obviously something that we all have a common goal with. And I don't know much about the water system as far as you all do, but you said that the industrial ponds, and is that off of Levitt?

No, we're going to come in the backside of the public works facility where those new ponds are being constructed. So we're going to put the pump station there. So the water that moves from Rhode Island Veterans Memorial through the system is going to go into those ponds. Then that pump station that we're putting in with this project is going to move it into the 386 project, which is eventually going to go through. It doesn't dump into Mill Lake. It goes to Mill Lake, and then it's going to be pumped out from there to the borrow pit. It's a... Perfect setup for a backbone system. It really is

So my only concern is that the borough pits on the west side of 1792 on French, right? And the west side has their own problems over there with some of the basins over there that are ruined businesses and houses and things like that off of Blue Springs, off French, all that area. So if we're pumping all the water from the east side of 1792, who's going to save the west side of 1792? Yeah. right i know we have to start somewhere but i know that in the past administration was like well you know maybe someday we can take um what's the pond where the lions club was marshall marshall pond right that's one of our major problems right and so that was maybe in the future going to be pumped to the borrow pit but we don't know how much the borrow pit can really hold until we actually start pumping there right because

It's, the capacity of that borrow pit right now is unrealized, but once it gets excavated, contoured, it's gonna be plenty of capacity. There is a, John Peters, isn't there, the county has a line that shoots across to, you remember we were talking about it yesterday? Come up and explain that because I don't have the map in front of me and I don't remember it. But there is a county line that's over there Trying to move some of the water also But this is definitely not directed to move stormwater on the west side But there is a backbone system that can be tapped into on the west side at a future date Then take that water out to the pond and if our estimation is correct to the pond or to the borrow pit Okay, so make sure There was an evaluation done several years ago with Jones Edmonds.

I've been involved with this whole backbone and Bob Pallinger, when he was here, got the West Volusia Utility Group to do a study on the borrow pit, looking at the volume, the recharging into the aquifer and that type of stuff. All the work that we're proposing will not even hardly make a dent in the total volume of the borrow pit. So there's more than ample capacity out there to do what we're talking about.

I'm going to hold you to that.

Play it through. Play it through.

It's there. But to the point of your question, this is beginning the backbone system that other areas of the city will be able to feed into. So the water that they're suffering through now could be captured and piped and connected to the borrow pit. So once that backbone gets in there. We're meeting also with the county. City manager

I just wanted to add that there are a number of basin studies that we are doing and that is where some of the other areas that we're not addressing with what we're talking about today will be able to be built in to this backbone system to get it out to the borrow pit so we understand that what we're doing today doesn't fix everything but the basin studies the five or four that will be left after we're done we were able to drop off we originally had six that were approved but we've also been able to drop a couple of them because we are actually addressing them. One thing I would like to say, and either of you can correct me if I'm wrong, what we're doing today will not impact in a negative way any of the west side that has flooding. It may not prevent it 100%, but it will not add or cause any more harm.

right if i can expand on that because i know what ms staffer is going to ask me in a second okay you already know okay um the pump station is being put in at mill lake everything that comes from the industrial area in future rhode island will go directly to the pump station it will not go into mill lake the pump station has four slots for pumps The phase that we're doing right now, we'll put in three pumps. There'll be a wall on one of those pumps to receive the water from industrial so it doesn't mix with the water in Mill Lake. The other two pumps will take care of Mill Lake. So basically it's a repump station for industrial so it will have no impact at all on Mill Lake. Thank you. You're welcome.

Yeah, I was going to say that I know it's not going to fix it overnight. I know it's a good start. I appreciate the creativeness of trying to figure this out because it's a real problem.

Point of order, can we please move forward, please? We won't be here all night.

One really exciting bit of information is we just received 90% plans for the Mill Lake project. We're in the process of reviewing that. In two weeks we have a meeting to go over the comment. So the county and Jones Edmonds have been very aggressive about getting this project designed. So we should be going to construction hopefully this winter.

okay thank you let me clarify that's not a point of order when I have the floor and I'm asking questions on the agenda item thank you anybody on the phone have any comments or questions who's speaking

This is Councilwoman Johnson.

Go ahead.

Okay, thank you. So with regard to the budget amendment for $192,200, obviously that's going to be in advance too because we have not gotten the funds that we were awarded, which was the $7,581,430 with 100% forgiveness from the SRF. We... approved this in November 12th. But so the 192, it will be put back into the budget obviously and it'll probably be a different budget year. However, I just wanted to know if we don't complete the facility plan by November 12th, does that jeopardize the money that we would get? Because I know we have to check boxes and I just wanna make sure that we haven't changed anything from our original award And is it going to be something that we go back later and say well, we didn't we didn't check this box I want to make sure that that does not happen Okay, let me answer a couple of those questions this little presentation We talked to them about how we wanted to utilize the funding

They're fully aware and are have bought into it a hundred percent. McDowell was part of that Jones Edmonds was a part of that John Peters myself licks Marie and all the staff that have been working on this So they are fully aware of how we intended to utilize the funds. So they're good on that SRF is very Sticky about their deadlines.

So we will be making the November deadline has committed to it Jones has committed to it and

We're not gonna miss that, and it's a reimbursable. We've already got the written communications with Amy Phillips, the project administrator, and she's told us 100%, even if the project doesn't go forward, they'll still reimburse us for that money.

Thank you.

Okay, and then to piggyback on that, I was just curious if there was, a location that we provided them when we received these funds or if it was just this is your funds and you move forward and present us with a plan. It sounds like we're kind of moving things around a little bit for ease of use or what makes most sense as far as the topography for the city. Is that right, why you're putting those at the other?

No, that's a great question The original concept was literally a generalized concept and the first slide that we showed showed that one line That concept was originally to put tiger dams out there when the flooding occurred part of the original package included I think around $525,000 or $550,000 for tiger dams. And to raise the road profile and create some swale systems along the roadway. The problem with that was it didn't really prevent flow into the industrial drive area.

It just managed the water on the road on Rhode Island.

So we started looking at it and saying, well, there's an extension coming from Deltona side on Rhode Island.

Eventually, it's going to be coming over.

So raising the road profile now was not probably one of the better ways to address the flooding. So with the mobile pumping station we're going to put, there's going to be a pad out there We can go out there and pump immediately the minute any water starts showing up and the two ponds are interconnected So we'll be pumping from the north side pond Which will be pulling the flow from the south So that will control the level of that pond so that it wasn't Okay, so then we are not elevating Rhode Island at this time we're doing the opposite we're doing the other

situation to mitigate that we're doing it that way correct yes ma'am we're we're we're going to use okay yep i'm good so then my question would be do we have any monetary i'm sorry it's kind of hard on the phone i apologize a little skip but um anyway the is there anything monetarily involved already in the the elevation of the Rhode Island project that we will be just basically, you know, we did a study or we did a this and we did a that and it cost the city money?

No, ma'am. What happened, the way the process worked was the facility plan is what's going to define what the actual project is. And so nothing was done at all. It's just, it was just a concept thrown out there and we took that concept and kind of stretched it out a little bit to interconnect it with the industrial drive area. No expense on the city whatsoever.

Okay, perfect. Well, thank you. Gotcha, gotcha. Thank you for that clarification. That was a couple of the things I was concerned about since we are making some changes, which sounds feasible, but I just wanted to make sure monetarily that we weren't going to jeopardize anything or lose any money for the city.

Okay, Councilwoman Knight.

Regarding tiger dams. Is this going to eliminate the need for those?

Yes, those are quite expensive Yeah, they were for two of them was five five hundred to five hundred fifty thousand but rather than just ignoring the tiger dam concept We've also communicated with the county and we're top of the list for tiger dams if they're needed The key here is is that it with that pump station out there? They shouldn't be needed That'll be a big enough system out there to be able to push that. Remember when the flooding occurred, the city laid pipes along the side of the road, and then you had bumps in the road because they had to cross roadways and all those other things. This avoids that. It puts it all underground. You pull your pump up there, and you start pumping away the minute you think it's going to start flooding. So it'll eliminate any flooding on the road. It'll move the water down through the backbone system and eventually get it out to the borrow pit.

What's the pumping capacity of the pumps?

I think they're 12-inch. John, they're 12-inch, aren't they? 12-inch pumps. Pretty good-sized pump. It kept up with it and pumped it down. How long did it take it to pump it down when it was already...

When we flooded the last time, we were using a smaller pump for 24 hours to get more out of the roof.

It's a smaller pump, but it was also already flood stage or past flood stage. With this system, you would be able to address that by pumping before it gets to the flood stage.

Thank you.

When do we think this project may be close to started?

Lix Marie?

This is Lix Marie. She's my conscience.

by next week, and everything must be finished by November, so we can submit everything to SRF, and then we can move to the plan phase.

So the facility plan kicks it off, that's what she's referring to. Once that's done, then we can go to the design phase. And then the design phase, eight, nine months, maybe? Until, yes. Probably somewhere between eight and 10 months for the design phase.

Okay, so this is next year if we get hit this year Would what's our plan for if we don't have tiger dams and things like that? The county they said yes Okay At the top of the list or they said yes?

No, they said yes and we'd be at the top of the list. That's a different. But I'm of the opinion that, you know, you could be at the top of the list today and you never know what happens somewhere else on the east side, right?

Well, the top of the list could be number five and we never get chosen and then our city's flooded.

Go ahead, City Manager. What's being presented makes no difference. We would still be in the same position we are today without Tiger Dams, whether we changed the program and did the built-in or went down the path engineer and design for the to do that the tiger dams versus this this does elongate it but it changes nothing for this hurricane season whatsoever so we didn't have anything any help for this season anyway it's all for next year Yeah, we've always been on the list for Tiger dams right since they because that's a major thoroughfare That the flooding after Milton and so it's it's important not only for us But that's a county road at veterans so they they acknowledged and have said we are at the top of the list if we encounter something and need tiger dams it's just a matter of where does it hit how big is it and where do we fall in that pecking order and

Also, I think the worst case scenario, we could set up a couple of pumping stations out there if it got that bad, okay? It's not the best way to lay lines across roads and stuff like that. But when you've got an emergency, you're gonna do what you have to do to fix it. So we're hoping and praying that this year it doesn't hit us hard. And then by this time next year, we'll be in a better position to resolve the flooding. It's a fairly simple design until you get into the hydraulics. The design of putting the pipe in the ground and putting the pump station out there, that's pretty simple. But the hydraulics, the capacity of the pump, the flow rates, throwing down the ponds, all of that is the real engineering that's going to be done on this.

Okay. Can you tell me again when the construction phase would start?

After May 15, 2027, we can move to that phase and we can start construction later than that. until June 2029 to complete the construction.

So the planning phase of this begins with the facility plan, which is what we're seeking tonight. Then it goes into the design phase. Then it goes from the design bidding for the contractor and then the construction phase. All of that's got to be completed by 2029. It's a project that shouldn't be too much problem getting it constructed in time for the SRF. And they've been great. We have a great rapport. With Amy Phillips, we have a great rapport with the SRF people. So we work hand in hand with them.

So now we're talking it could go three years, but I mean, at least we're getting started, right?

It could be sooner. I'm not going to say it will be, but it could be.

I hope you're right. Me too. I just said that. Okay. Any other questions, council, or comments? No? Anybody on the phone?

Yes, I don't have any more questions, thank you.

Councilwoman Richardson?

No, no.

Okay, thank you.

No, no questions.

Thank you. Okay, so we are looking for a motion for resolution number 458-26. I'd like to make a motion to adopt. Madam Mayor?

Yes. Sorry, I would like to recommend the motion if there are no public comments. Do you call for public comments? I apologize.

No, not until after we make the motion.

So I want to make a motion to adopt budget amendment resolution number 458-26 to approve work order number 360-26 for SRF. F facilities plan for Rhode Island and industrial park flood improvements with Jones Edmond and associates in the amount of $174,694 and authorized the city manager to execute the work order and any subsequent change orders not to exceed 10% or an additional $17,469.40 for a maximum total of $192,163.40. I second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Any public comment on this?

Yes, I do.

Come on up.

Good afternoon, Sharon Safford, 461 South Clark Street, Orange City, Florida. My concern, with everybody probably know, what is this going to do to Mill Lake? What promise we have about Mill Lake? I've been here for generation to generation, and we have been flooded three or four times. The last time, it was bad, bad. What are we going to do? What guarantee, what we got in blood, that this is not going to affect our Mill Lake, East Blue Springs, Clark, Holly, Banana? Because, you know, our church was closed down for, what, six weeks. We couldn't even get into the church. What is this going to do to Mill Lake?

Well, I think you already said what it was gonna do. We don't need to go through it again. You just went through that whole process that it's actually gonna help Mill Lake, it's gonna help Industrial Park, it's gonna help that whole east side of 1792 to move water for the first phase of trying to mitigate this problem, right? So I think that's already been answered. Is there any other public comment on this? Anybody? Okay, we're gonna bring it back for the question then.

Council Member T. Onsen? Yes. Vice Mayor Grimm? Yes. Council Member Stafford? Yes. Council Member Richardson? Yes. Council Member Darms? Yes. Council Member Knight? Yes. Mayor Marks?

Yes. And resolution number 458-26 passes. There's a delayed reaction on the phone if everybody didn't notice already. Okay, moving on to 8C, discussion and direction regarding the proposed fire protection special assessment program. Devlin Moore, finance director.

Good evening, Devlin Moore, finance director. Tonight we're bringing back the presentation on the proposed fire assessment program. at the july twenty eight council meeting councilmember night noted that several of her constituents had asked for an opportunity to view the fire assessment presentation that was originally given during the june ninth workshop workshop was not recorded so the presentation is not available for residents to view afterwards as such council therefore directed staff to bring the consultant back to provide the presentation again during a regular council meeting this will allow for the presentation to be recorded and be accessible to residents for public viewing it will also provide council an opportunity to answer any other or ask any other questions you may have So with that, I am going to turn the presentation over to Sandy Newbarth with Accenture, who will walk you through the fire assessment study and a proposed methodology. And then I'll come back after she concludes and briefly discuss staff's recommended timeline should council wish to continue considering the assessment next year.

Can I ask you a question real quick? So didn't she already do this presentation at the workshop? she did and wasn't that for public to watch or no they had to come unfortunately the public workshop from what i understand was not recorded so they had to come but it was but it was noticed where people could come correct okay yes thank you

Good evening, Sandy Newbarth with Accenture. So as you know, we got started doing the fire assessment with staff in around February through an RFP process. Again, like Devlin said, we gave this presentation once, so I'll kind of go through it fairly quickly. Just to remind you what a fire assessment is, it's a charge imposed against property to pay for fire protection services. it does not include ems services it's a home rule revenue source so it's case law driven not statutory driven the case law has two primary prongs the first one is that it has to have a special benefit to property and that's why you can't charge ems with this the courts have said fire protection services up to the level of first responder does benefit property. EMS does not. It benefits people. So that's why we do that. And then the second prong is it must be fairly and reasonably apportioned. It has to make sense how it gets apportioned to the properties that are paying. Purpose and goals of a fire assessment, first and foremost, is to generate revenue to pay for fire protection services, provides diversification. Fire protection, fire assessments are not dependent on taxable values. They're dependent on the value of the service or the benefit of the service provided to the properties. Provides accountability. It's legally restricted funds that can only be used for fire protection services, and it provides equity. All properties will pay based on their fair and reasonable use or availability of fire protection services. THE METHODOLOGY THAT WE DEVELOPED FOR THE CITY IS THE HISTORICAL DEMAND METHODOLOGY. IT'S COURT TESTED AND APPROVED MOST WIDELY USED THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF FLORIDA. ABOUT 90 TO 95% OF THE PROGRAMS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA USE SOME FORM OF A HISTORICAL DEMAND METHODOLOGY. the reason it's called the historical demand methodology is because we look at past who's been demanding the services from the past and projected out to the future this methodology was approved by the fourth district Court of Appeals in 2010 in the desert area versus city of Boynton Beach matter and to my knowledge it hasn't been challenged again since then When we develop a study, there's four primary components. First, we want to see what type of services you provide. You have ALS without transport. What that tells us, there is an EMS component. So we know we have to remove the EMS cost and the EMS calls. We also look at your fire flow and based on the National Fire Protection Association, the NFPA standards and the apparatus and facilities that you have in your city, you can put out a fully engulfed fire in a non-residential structure up to 106,500 square feet. So therefore, we're going to cap it at 106,500 square feet. That being said, you do have mutual aid, so if there's a larger fire, it will get serviced, but it will be serviced through mutual aid, not necessarily the fire department for the city. there's only 12 buildings in the city that exceed this square foot cap you've got the walmart the target the home depot lowe's there's a hospital schools a nursing home in the shopping center so there's not that many and the benefit area is the incorporated area of the city The second component is we develop a five-year average accessible budget, again, removing the EMS costs, and I'll discuss in detail a little bit more about that. Then we develop the cost apportionment. This would be the call data analysis that we do. And then the fourth component is we develop a preliminary assessment role. So we look at all the properties in the city and determine what type of billing units are on each one of the properties. So the five-year accessible budget, we started, again, we have to split between the fire and the EMS. And so we have a methodology, again, the same methodology that we used in the desert area versus Boynton Beach case, and that was reviewed by the courts. We look at how you're staffing for fire as to how you're staffing for EMS. So based on how you're staffing, about 60, almost 65% of your budget could go into the fire protection bucket. the rest would be EMS. And then we developed a five-year average budget doing annual increases of personnel by 5% each year, 3% for operating, and then we added your five-year CIP, your facilities improvements, and your fleet apparatus improvements. We took your fire protection revenues and offset the expenditures. Then we added the miscellaneous assessment collection costs. These are the same things that you have in your stormwater and your solid waste. It's collection costs associated with using the tax bill. You get a statutory discount if you pay it early. So we add all those costs in to get your net accessible budget. Then we developed rates based off your five-year average. We usually do a five-year average, so you're not going up and down. Capital in one year can make your budget swing one way or the other. So we developed the rates based off of $4,103,031. That's your five-year average. So your cost apportionment, this is the key to your fair and reasonableness. What we did is we took three years of call data for the city, your 2023, 2024, and 2025 call data. There was 20,924 total calls. and we looked at when the fire department goes out on a call, for every call they go out on, they fill out an incident report. One of the things that they put on there is what type of a call did I go to. If it was an EMS type of a call, a medical need type of a call, they got removed. So you had 16,988 EMS-type calls that got removed. We don't do the analysis on them. Then we looked at the remaining calls, and there was 1,545 calls that went to what we call as nonspecific, roadways, waterways, things that aren't tied to a specific tax parcel. so we couldn't tie them to a specific tax parcel, so we took them out. Then we did the remaining analysis on the 2,391 calls that went to specific types of properties. And another thing that they put in those incident reports is They say what type of situation was found, but then they also say what type of property did I go to? Did I go to the grocery store? Did I go to a nursing home? Did I go to a single family house? Did I go to a duplex, a multi-family house? What type of a property did I go to? So we do that analysis based on that. So residential was 61.52% of the calls. Commercial was 17.61%. Industrial warehouse was 1.8%. Institutional was 10.08%. Your nursing home was 5.98%, which is a little high, but that's not unusual. And your land was 3.01%. So this pie chart right here is the key to keeping you legally defensible. Whatever budget you want to fund, whether it's a $4 million budget or a $1 million budget, it needs to be split into these pieces. Parcel apportionment, what's fair and reasonable for billing units on the parcel. Residential will be based on a per dwelling unit basis. Your non-residential will be based on a per square foot basis. Again, capped at that 106,500 square feet. And vacant land will be charged on a per parcel basis. Now, there's a Florida statute that says you have to treat RV parks, not mobile home parks, but RV parks, similar to other hotel, motel, commercial businesses. So what we do is we assign square footage to each RV space and then charge them at the commercial rate. So once we get all the pieces, it becomes a math problem. It's 61.52% of the calls went to residential. That would mean residential funds $5.24 million of that budget divided by the 6,000 515 dwelling units to get a $388 per dwelling unit rate. Your commercial would be 20 cents a square foot. Your industrial warehouse, 7 cents a square foot. Your institutional, 35 cents a square foot. your nursing home 50 cents a square foot, and your vacant land is $177 per parcel. This is the maximum. This is the 100% based on that $4.1 million. It's not what you have to do. It's a policy decision every year when you go and set rates, and you would set the level. We are, for this purposes, we also looked at your exemption buy-down. It's a policy decision. So with ad valorem taxes, you don't have the option of charging. If they don't have a taxable value, they don't pay. With non-advalorum, you can charge those that don't have a taxable value. We assume that you're going to piggyback off of your stormwater and your solid waste, and you're going to exempt government parcels, and the impact to exempt the government parcels would be about $314,000. then we assume you're going to continue to exempt institutional tax-exempt parcels which are your nonprofits so it would be the those parcels it's a two-prong test those parcels which are wholly tax-exempt and then the buildings that are of institutional use so that would be $91,000 and And then what is not an option is ag exemption. There's a statute that says you cannot charge vacant ag land for a fire assessment. So that would be a little bit less than $1,000. So after you did those exemptions, you would net about $3.7 million. um this so these are some rate scenarios rate options like i said you you would set the rates every year you're not moving forward with it this year so you don't have to make that decision um back in June before we knew whether you were gonna move forward or not, staff was gonna recommend $150 rate for residential, commercial, eight cents a square foot, industrial warehouse, three cents a square foot, institutional, 14 cents a square foot, nursing home, 19 cents a square foot, and land, $68. And that would have netted you about $1.4 million. I'm gonna now turn it back over to Devlin and let him wrap it up.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Sandy. As we close, I just want to briefly discuss staff's recommendation going forward. Tonight, staff is not recommending that council consider the fire assessment for the 2026 tax bill. Instead, if council would like to continue considering the fire assessment as a funding option, staff is recommending that we bring it back to the February 9th, 2027 meeting. At that meeting, council would have an opportunity to revisit the methodology, the funding objectives, the exemptions, and potential rates. And it makes sense, given that we will probably know what we will know by then, whether or not property tax reform has passed and what the minutia is behind that as more information comes out of the state. If council decides to proceed there would be two potential implementation schedules ones expedited ones using the trim notices and staff to be happy to present those again next year and weigh the pros and cons of those two and methods uh... so under each either option the assessment would uh... appear on the november twenty twenty seven property tax bill so for tonight staff is simply asking council to receive the presentation and provide direction on whether you would like staff to bring back the fire assessment uh... at a later date again we're recommending february ninth twenty twenty seven it'll give us an opportunity to find out more information from tallahassee should property tax reform go through, plus we'll have some new property appraiser data to run numbers. So, Madam Mayor, with that, we're done with the presentation, and Sandy and I are happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Any questions, Council?

I just have one. Devlin, if we went to a system like this, how much would the ad valorem go down, you know, the trim rate?

He doesn't know that.

I mean, is there a ballpark? If

I can't answer it for next year because we don't know what's going to be next year. If council had approved it before, revenue neutral rate was about 6.6 mils, if I recall correctly. Thank you.

I have a question, and I'm not sure if this is for you or Sandy, but you were saying that there's certain properties that would have to pay this fire assessment that are not paying now their taxes. Can you answer that for me? Who are we talking about?

It's all based on the number of dwelling units or the number of square footage and the rate category that you're in. It has nothing to do with your tax.

But you have to be a homeowner to pay? So you could be a renter and have to pay?

Well, a property owner. Whoever pays the tax bill, it goes on the tax bill. So whoever is paying the tax bill. If there's a leasehold and the lease says that the person that's leasing the property has to pay the taxes, then they would pay that. I see. Whoever pays the tax bill.

Thank you. Anybody on the phone have any comments on this?

I do.

Go ahead.

So I'm looking at the timeline for the next discussion and the differences that I'm just seeing on that is gonna be February 23rd, March 23rd and April 13th, it looks like. So those would be omitted on the, sorry, the expedited schedule will bring those things out, mail first class where it wouldn't be on the other trim schedule, is that correct?

That is correct. And again, there are pros and cons for either approach.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at that right now. That was my thought process. And then the other thing that I wanted to speak with Accenture and just look at this, I know that I did some extensive research on this after we had our one-on-ones, each one of our council members when we did our either Zoom meetings or personal meetings with city manager and Ms. Sandy, I believe. And we were looking at the DCA, so there is one that is 2017, and that was City of Cooper City. And so I would say we need to take all of those things into consideration, and everyone needs to educate themselves before the next time this comes up, and just look at how these things have evolved, how it's changed, and that'll be on my radar too.

So what are you talking about? A challenge, you mean? In Cooper City, is that what you're talking about?

Are you talking about there was a challenge? Sandy's asking you a question, Councilwoman T. Ompson, about is it a challenge for the Cooper City? Yeah. Okay.

The Florida, correct. Right. Florida 4th CCA of 2017. It was City Cooper. City versus Joe. And if you pull that up, we should take all those things into consideration. The one from 2000 or 2002 and then 2010 and then 2017. I'm just saying they all kind of like work in tandem together, especially when all cities are kind of, you know, established differently and have different budgets and those kind of things. So we pretty much all be taken into account.

Yeah, and you also have neighbors Giblin and Nickerson for legal counsel on this who has done the legal review and overview. Cooper City did not use the same methodology that I'm aware of. We did not develop that one. We actually did help them to offset some of their costs. I think the challenge was that they were funding EMS. And I want to say that our old firm name, Government Services Group, helped in the background with the expert witness to defer some of the refunds.

Right. Yes, there was a distinction between the two. And yeah, the original one, S&M Properties, rejected treating EMS as a special benefit while the other one integrated fire EMS together. And so that's where all that, when we had this discussion before about, you know, if it was a call that was supposed to be for EMS, but it was really not a call for anything whatsoever, it still got listed under there. So I'm just putting it out there for public record if anybody wants to educate themselves on it so they can have more clarification on that because I know that there's a lot of myths communication, especially on social media. People talking about this based on whatever they whatever they've been fed or whatever cool it's been drank. So I just want to just let everyone know. And that's just basically where I'm coming from.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Council anybody? Okay I think that we should do the February 9th thing like we originally said we went around and around but I got a timeline here May 11th June 9th June 23rd July 23rd July 28th and now tonight Like I said, beating a dead horse. We're not saying no, we're just saying let's just wait, see what happens. And I like the way that you presented it, Devlin, was we'll have more answers then, and it's safe to do that. So I think that that's our best route, and I'm just looking for a motion to support that.

Just for clarification, this would offset the ad valorem or not ad valorem? It would basically be pulled out and level off, correct?

It's your policy decision. Everyone makes a different decision. Staff was going to recommend an offset of the millage this year. I don't know what staff will recommend next year. We don't know what's going to happen in November. We have some clients that say, no, we don't want to offset it. We just want to do a little bit at a time. It's just your policy decision.

Go ahead, Stafford.

So what would happen if we proceed with the implementation of the fire assessment fee? Yeah, fire assessment fee rather than wait until February 9th. If we go ahead and start the work on it.

So that ship has kind of sailed. We don't have the statutory timeline now to make that happen. So we are required statutorily to hold the first public hearing by September 15th. And in order to do that, we would have to advertise 20 days and we're only 21 days from September 15th now. So this makes sense to wait until February 9th.

It makes sense to wait until then. Okay.

So we just need a motion?

Just need a motion.

I'd like to make a motion to return on February 9th, 2027 for an updated implementation presentation and consideration of acceptance of the fire assessment fee study.

Second. We have a motion. We have a second. We have some public comment here. Karen Stuckey.

Good evening, Mayor Marks, Vice Mayor Grimm, and the council.

I'm Karen Stuckey, East University Avenue.

Thank you for bringing the fire presentation back so the public can actually hear it. Residents paid $75,000 for this study and we have a right to hear it and to understand what the council's motion on June 23rd were actually about instead of being left in the dark while decisions were made. That's especially true when 186 properties which I didn't hear mentioned tonight are exempt and also some other properties and are currently paying nothing into fire service while the rest of us are covering that gap. I also note that it was only Mayor Marks and Councilman Tyson, both vocal opponents of this assessment, were absent, that the rest of the council voted to bring this presentation back. I'm not here to tell the council what to decide. I'm here to say that residents who paid for this information deserve to actually receive it before any vote was taken. Thank you.

Thank you. Patrick Murphy?

Patrick Murphy, 678 Swan Range Road in Orange City. I've spoken before in favor of this. Personally, I would like to see the council move forward tonight with the concept for next year. Then you can set the actual assessment at that time. However, I'm encouraged that the council seems to be leaning towards this as a method, as something in our toolbox that we can use I'd love to have a special assessment district for police as well and understand that that's not a way that we can proceed. So again, I encourage the council to move forward in whatever way that you decide at this time. But I would like next year for this to be in our budget something that we have with or without passing of Amendment 3. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other public comment?

Chairman Safford, 461 South Clark Street. I do want to thank you, all counsel, members and mayor, for giving us the opportunity to see where the $70,000 went. My concern before was we paid taxpayers' money, but we weren't able to see what you spent our money for. So I just wanna give you thank you for giving us the opportunity to see where the $70,000 was sent for.

Thank you. Any other public comment? Okay, I just want to make a comment that you know, we do have workshops and they are public, it would be nice if everybody would participate. So that we didn't have to keep saying the same thing here. And, and we can move on to other business, but I'm glad that y'all had the opportunity to see it again. And we'll move on from that. Excuse me. Okay, city manager reports?

Yeah, we did not call the vote.

Oh, sorry. Okay, we have a motion, we have a second. Public comment's over. Let's bring it back for the question.

Council Member Stafford?

Yes.

Council Member Richardson?

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And the motion passes to bring it back February 9th, 2027. Okay. Moving on to nine reports, a nine a city manager.

So I've handed out the items on this week's manager's report. I attended a rise and shine in the city at Encanto with the chamber. We held our budget one-on-ones, and all seven members successfully were able to participate the week of August 3rd to the 7th. Myself, along with council members, attended the Florida League of Cities conference on August 12th. We held two coffees with public safety, one on August 19th and one on the 25th. They were very successful.

Upcoming, we have some union meetings tomorrow based on our executive session.

We have the 2026 West Volusia State of the City, the draft video. It's due from the mayor's recommended contractor by September 2nd. Mayor Marks will actually give that presentation at John Knox Village on September 10th.

I will be attending the Volusia County Elected Officials Roundtable on September 14th. We have a Team Volusia meeting I'll be attending on September 18th.

And then the next coming Militia League of Cities dinner is in Hollyhill on September 24th. If there are any questions.

Any questions, council? I had a couple questions and comments. I noticed that you're working remote from home, and I was wondering, usually that's something that you let the council know when you're working remotely, city manager. That doesn't sound right.

I have not worked remote.

we do have some times that you were not there so i'm not sure what you're speaking of it just means i may have been off okay well the question the question is do you let us know when you do that or you do ask permission for us to do that because i know in the past the past city manager would always say is it okay if i take off today or if i work remotely and so so we know where you're at

I have not worked remote. Therefore, I would not have a need. And I do not believe my contract would require me to. However, I have not worked remote. Okay. Thank you.

And then the other thing I wanted to thank you for the organizational charts that you sent to us. We started getting them on Mondays. I don't know if you all have been checking them out. And I went back and referred back to May is when you sent your first one to us until the one we just recently got. And I noticed a big turnover in employees. And I know that way back when I got a lot of flack from people saying that I caused people to quit and things like that but when I look at these charts and I'll be happy to pass them around but it looks like we lost a lot of employees lately in the last three months and uh... we've only gotten one resignation letter sent to us which was a positive one saying from our public information officer that he was going somewhere else for other reasons but it's my understanding that from a reliable you know advisement that we have let's see your your assistant administrative assistant is is leaving and then when we move on to finance we have two in finance we have excuse me we have four people that either have resigned or resigning in the utilities department and then public works we have um three we have two va three vacant four vacant uh looks like one just resigned and then i was wondering the stormwater equipment operator is no longer has a position who's running our stormwater equipment

I would have to look at who you're speaking of, but there's more than one person who can operate heavy equipment in the city.

I'm just looking at the organizational chart, and that was one of the positions.

It falls under public works, so we have an equipment operator who could cover if either the stormwater equipment operator was out or the public works operator was out.

so it seems like things have been shuffled from may and that's why i'm asking the questions to see because we don't as a council we don't know who's coming and going that's not our job that's the city manager's job to hire fire but what i see is a big turnover and i'm starting to question why i also noticed that john peters engineer services has moved to administrative offices and i was wondering why that happened if he's over with public works he works under my myself in either area and he's working under me at this point okay well we didn't know that so that's what i'm saying like we don't really know what's going on and who's if there's major people leaving like robert lawler made a um presentation here he was one of our best water people here very smart big loss for the city and he's gone right after that presentation he's gone Darren Romero our chief mechanic you know it seems like all our leadership's falling apart here now we have John McEwen as acting let me get to the right page here We've got John McEwen as the utilities director, acting utilities director. Are you aware of that, anybody, council? Because that's a major director. So I feel like we should know as council who the directors are in case we know what's going on in our city. Because people come to us and ask us those questions and we don't know. So that's why these flow charts really help. That's why I asked for that. But what I see is in the utilities department alone, there's a whole line of, I mean, if you can see this, you see all the red? That's all the people that resigned. That's scary. Our public works, our utilities department. So I want to know what's going on. Why is everybody leaving?

I would say that there's a multitude. I know these individuals.

I've worked with them for years and being These are personnel issues We could get in a situation where we might have to litigate this so I strongly advise against speaking about this in a public meeting I

okay all right we will move on i just wanted to make everybody aware of what's happening here i will hand out elisa's resignation letter and i will say for the record that both justin elisa came to me and wrote the letters for the very purpose to convey to not only the mayor but their council members that them leaving was not a reflection on me and i would also encourage you as a public record to consider reading their exit interviews and because that is something that you can look at and see in maybe a little bit or have a conversation with me because i do know these people personally individually for a number of years and there's a variety of reasons why people leave everyday

Well, I don't want you to think that I was pointing the finger at you was why they left I was asking why did they leave because it just seems like the departments were falling apart and I know that you're in charge of all the departments but just trying to figure out what's happening and then I like I said, I had a reliable advisement that it may it may not be what we think here and and so I just I have to have to say something because that's our job to make sure that our city is running and

what's happening he was just cautioning me again that this is not appropriate and that okay all right well we'll move on thank you any other comments questions for a city manager okay city clerk any questions for the city clerk okay

Moving on.

I actually do have a question. I was looking back. Sorry. Do I have the floor? Go ahead. So I was looking back at some of our meeting minutes and sometimes I like to go back and just read it, especially when we've discussed this, um, the fire assessment fee in particular, because I want to go back and look at historical information. I know at one point I asked for meeting minutes that they were not done yet. So they sent me the whole transcription of everything that was recorded. And I just kind of read through that, you know, sometimes you get, um, you get texts that is just picked up and the words are incorrect. So you have to kind of like read between the lines, but I'm just wondering at what point are we going to catch up? Because we received, what was it? May or June? We received meeting minutes from October and November of 2025, and that's as far as we've gotten. So I'm not sure what's going on, but I just really wanna ask that question because when people wanna pull the minutes, they really can't.

Sure so meeting minutes are actually in the process of getting caught up currently for a while there it was just Aaron and I in the office and attending around 10 different board meetings a month requires about 80 hours worth of our time to do the minutes and there are other items that statute the minutes which would include public records requests. Our office has received over 1700 public records requests since January 1 of this year. So there are a number of items that statutorily would come prior to minutes. As of right now we have most of the minutes In a draft form, we're working on the final edits, and we are about to flood your agendas with minutes for approval, to be completely honest with you. I was kind of waiting until all the budgetary stuff kind of went through, because that does make the agendas a little lengthier. But you will have numerous sets of minutes coming for approval in the near future.

That would be amazing, because you are the You're the head of the fish over there at the clerk's office. I know there's a lot of public records requests and I understand that the meeting minutes may be kind of cumbersome. I didn't know if there was maybe something that you thought that could be a remedy to either or of those problems because it seems like public records requests and meeting minutes take up a bulk of time in the clerk's office, and now that there is three of you, I was just curious, is there, if you've gotten a, changing the way that you're doing it to where it would make it more streamlined, or if you have thoughts In place that would make it better.

I mean we can outsource minutes, but there's going to be a cost to that I would also state that my office also handles business tax receipts Which is not a normal function of the clerk's office in any municipality So my office is handling all new business tax receipt applications We also do all the renewals which is around thirteen to fourteen hundred renewals a year We're right in the middle of that season. So Most of the time, that is Rebecca's full-time job. She really doesn't have a lot of time to bounce back and forth between meeting minutes. To be completely honest, to handle the public records request and everything else going on in the clerk's office, I really do need an additional person. We just don't have the funding. So I chose not to ask for an additional person for the last couple years, likely because it's not going to be funded. unfortunately most of your other municipalities are running a clerk's office on five they have five employees in there um we have three and then we're also dealing with business tax receipts so it does it gets a little tricky sometimes as far as like priorities go what i'm hearing you saying is that maybe so what i'm hearing you say is that sorry interrupt that the phone kind of uh gets a little pause but anyway um

To interrupt you there, so it sounds like some of these jobs need to be shifted somewhat. It feels like maybe you're saying that it's a little overwhelming on that side.

I would agree with that, but I would also agree that the other departments are also overwhelmed. So without handing over the responsibility and the current employee to that other department, I don't think we can really shift those responsibilities without either the clerk's office giving up an employee to another department or without us hiring an additional employee. But I mean, minutes should be caught up within the next couple months. I'm not sure how many sets of minutes are acceptable on one agenda for you all. but ultimately they are all in draft form. Um, we have looked into outsourcing minutes, but of course there would be a cost. Um, there is, you know, AI that you software that we could purchase, but additional cost as well.

Yeah, no, I think once we get caught up, we can stay on top of it. Um, the, you know, I'm just putting it out there just so the public is aware of it as well. And so, I mean, these are the struggles and the strife that the clerk's office has as far as, like, what you have going on in your office and the amount of people that you have in your office. So that's why I wanted to bring it up. And also, I'm very excited to see the minutes and go through those because I do have some questions with the past. I know we can public records request, but why go through all of that? It seems very messy. So thank you so much for that clarification.

No problem.

Councilwoman Knight. You know I'm in technology and I know AI is not always popular but I think in this case and probably in several cases within the city government we have opportunities to utilize AI to streamline a lot of processes and help with those loads. It does require human intervention but AI does the bulk of the work. The human intervention comes in with reviewing the work to make sure it's accurate. and then you move forward.

I'm sorry, Councilman Knight, I can't hear you.

Uh-oh. So I was saying that AI... Is something that probably could benefit the city. It's an investment You have to look at the different types of AI tools that are available out there But I think that this is something that would benefit not just the clerk's office But probably the city as a whole when you have all these public records requests you have You know all these other minutes and stuff like that, AI can go in and read all those for you and it just takes human intervention to review them. So it's a very time-saving process that I think would be beneficial for the city.

Yeah, and to your point, I know that we just paid $6,000 for a chat CBT business model and it would just take a drag and drop into that and ask it to perform meeting minutes and it would definitely be able to take Everything that's been recorded and do that for you.

So we do have that currently so I appreciate that Yeah, and the way I understand it though that that is not something that's being used across all users or any Let's let the clerk go clerk city clerk would like to make a comment I

So we have actually tried to drag and drop our audio files into ChatGBT and it will not accept them. So that has been something that has been explored. We can transcribe the meeting minutes and then put them into ChatGBT, which is kind of double the steps. And then ask it to write the meeting minutes, but I would also state that meeting minutes are legally binding decisions of this council So if you have a four-hour meeting and you have chat GPT write your minutes You still have to go back and listen to that four-hour meeting to verify that all that information is correct that AI did not miss any additional steps When it comes to meeting minutes, if you have a four hour meeting, you can guarantee that meeting minutes will take the clerk eight hours to complete. You would double the time. It is the same thing with public records requests as far as BWC, which is body worn camera redactions. If a video is 30 minutes, it takes us an hour to redact it. By the time you pause, type something in, notate something, start your recording again, back it up, oh, I couldn't quite hear that, need to listen to the vote again, who voted yes, who voted no, you might as well double the time of the meeting. 30 hours worth of meetings a month between council, code, CRA. I go to the technical review committee. I attend all the meetings, the youth advisory council, the historic board, the planning board. So if I have 30 hours worth of meetings a month, that's 60 hours doing minutes. on top of everything else that's going on in the clerk's office. So we are exploring the different options with what we currently spend as far as software solutions and whatnot. We're just trying to navigate that without purchasing additional software.

Anything else, Councilwoman Thompson?

Yes, I just wanted to say, so it sounds like AI is not a viable solution at this point. It sounds like it puts a little bit more work into your plate, as it were. So thank you for that. Just wanted to make sure that we are getting caught up regardless.

Thank you. Councilwoman Knight? There are a plethora of different types of AI out there. So it's not just chat GPT. It's not just Microsoft Copilot. You've got Claude. Google has their own. You've got some that extract verbal interactions from video. And yes, you have to purchase them. But there's a ton of different types of AI out there that can be utilized.

Yeah, I was just gonna say, I like AI, but it's not reliable yet. It's still new, and I feel like what the clerk said is you still have to go back and spend the same amount of time to make sure it's right, because these minutes have to be word for word of what, they have to be correct. So if AI makes a mistake, then that's in our public record, and that's not going to look good on public records requests. She's already got enough. She don't need more, right? Right. So go ahead.

But you have to understand how to use it. So you have prompt AI. So once you teach it, it becomes very reliable. We've been using it at work. We just got a new AI update. That where I was able to go and bulk update like 150 user stories and we had two and two stories that were incorrect, but it's learning. So as I've done it more and more over the last several days, it's picked up, hold on a minute. It's picked up and learned. What is that absolutely necessary? So it's a matter of playing with your prompts when you work in AI and telling it what to do. You have to kind of play around with it for a little while, but once you get that prompt right and it understands your prompt, then it learns and then it remembers and then it goes. So it's just one of those things.

Councilwoman Thompson.

Yeah, I just wanted to bring it back. My point was this, I was just wanting to get our meeting minutes caught up, and so that was all the point I wanted to make on that.

Thank you. Councilwoman D'Arms?

um now that we're discussing this having been at the florida league of cities um i wish this was something i had kind of thought about i would have liked to have asked because we met so many people and my cons my my thought is with all the towns and cities that are out there in in the state there's got to be others that are using

You can bring that back under new business if you want to talk about that as a discussion right now We're just we're on just maybe find out who's using it. That's it's working So bring that back when we get to new business and we can ask the council do that. Sorry to interrupt you. I Had a question for the clerk I had We had Way back when we had a problem with a conversation between me and Councilwoman Thompson with some words and I had went into the clerk's office to ask her if she had a public record for that. because it was brought to the council meeting as a discussion about, it was printed out and brought to the clerk's office is what she told me. Somebody dropped it off to her. My question is, is how did it get to that person when this discussion was on a city-owned device? It was on a city-owned device. Excuse me, I'm asking the question. So my question is, how do we find out, because you're in charge of the records, how do we find out how they got a hold of that record? Because the only places it could come from was a city clerk, which you said you did not give that out, or IT.

Excuse me, attorney, can we have a point of order here? Because this is, it has nothing to do with.

I'm asking the city clerk a question.

And I'm asking our attorney, as an individual council person here, point of order, can we move forward?

Can I answer, Madam Mayor?

Go ahead.

Okay, so point of order is used if another member is violating one of the commission rules.

Okay.

So what is the commission?

The commission rule that I feel is being violated is, it's personal. It's all personal. All this, we went over this for, it all started back in November. We're in, almost in November again. Why are we trying to continue to dig up find out when initially the clerk told them someone brought it in, drop it off at her desk, and left. So how is the clerk going to pull a rabbit out of her hat and say, this person brought it in?

I'm not asking her to pull a rabbit out of her hat. I was just asking how we would move forward with finding out how a public record became to someone and there was no public records request. And so this is city property and it was public record on a city device. And there's no other way that a person in the public could get that conversation between former vice mayor Thompson and myself unless it came through a city person. So that's why I'm asking, how do we find out that?

Attorney, I'm just I'm just trying to find out under Robert under the Madam Mayor, man.

Yes. So under Robert's rules, if there's a point of order called, it has to be decided by the chair. So and the chairs asking the question Stafford has

has um stated a point of order she stated the reason and now as chair uh as chair i hear your point of order and i'm trying to explain myself that i would like to know how this got out to to the public because we have standards and transparency here and like she discussed she does the hours on end giving out public requests she has a a

That does not mean that I have access to everything.

Okay, so how do I find that out? That's all I want to know. Hold on, let her answer the question.

So to answer your question, you came in, it was like two weeks ago, and you said you wanted to know the name of the individual that dropped off the records, and I told you that I did not collect that information from them because ultimately people come in and do drop stuff off on a... It used to be a normal basis for the most part. And if they do not offer up that information, I don't ask for it. Correct. So that I cannot answer. I have no clue how the record got out there. I have to ask other departments for access to records. The only thing I have access to are the records that I create on my computer, my emails. Anything else I would have to go to department heads to the IT department and request those records So I think you would have to ask the person that Dropped those records off and I do not remember the person's name off the top of my head That's I can't do that because I don't know who it is So the bottom line is is it's it's an it's an interior problem with our city and we need to figure out how it got leaked out

And and so I don't really consider a public record being given to the public as considered like a leak It hasn't been requested formally so it's if there's Attorney can you answer that?

I mean it's public record is a public record

Right, but this was not put out as a request.

So can I ask you a question? So if you find out that it was a city employee, what are you asking? Are you asking them to be punished first?

No, I'm not asking anything. I want to know how it got out. That's all. Because it's... It's basically from a city device that was turned in from someone that's dead now. They're not here with us anymore. So who got it and who exposed it to the public for somebody to just drop it off randomly? That's what I want to find out. So I was asking you for guidance on that as the city clerk. That's all. I know you said you don't know.

Unfortunately, I don't remember that person's name that dropped off the record. Okay.

Okay, I will forward this. Attorney and myself will talk further about it then I just wanted to ask if you knew where I proceed with this so we can move on. Councilwoman?

I think the reason, and I'm not faulting anybody, the reason that it's coming, it's just being presented wrong in how you do it. I understand what you're asking for. I believe if memory serves, the lady who turned that in got up and spoke at a council meeting and said she was the one who dropped it off. And I'm not sure her, I can't recall her name, but if you still maintain the... Record for that meeting? Or...

comments you should be able to go back and find that thank you okay thank you okay there's nothing else for the city clerk we'll move on to the city attorney there's a lot going on madam mayor but nothing for the group okay thank you you're welcome okay we're on to new business uh councilwoman darms would you want to bring up your new business sorry

Yeah, this thing with the AI is very interesting and could be very progressive in helping with a massive problem. And being, having just come from the Florida League of Cities where there was hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of people from other cities, you can't tell me there aren't others that are not using this AI concept. Now I wish I had known about this. I would have been asking people along the way so I'm guessing maybe what we could do is if we can somehow reach out to some of these towns and find out do you use it and what do you use and I think the whole concept is finding out what they're using that's being productive and then go from there so you're asking the manager to maybe reach out to other cities and then bring it back for a discussion When she has time.

Is that what you're asking for?

Well, I just, I don't know what the procedure would be, but I'm thinking if we could reach out, how can we, I mean, I would be willing to even help.

So, go ahead. We have groups, the city clerk, the finance, city managers. I would ask, I would suggest if this is a head nod, that Kaylee and I work together to reach out to the city clerk group and get some feedback, and then it'll boil down to us coming back with a recommendation that would have a price tag, and then we could consider it at that time. And a recommendation either way. Yes, we think this will work. This is why. No, we're not quite sure. But it all comes with a price tag, so we're not ready for this budget, but we could definitely look at bringing it back at a date in the future based on that survey that we would do.

This thing would be good to use, something that's been working for other communities.

So we just need a head nod and then we'll ask for a yes or no from the phone. Is everybody okay with bringing this back for a discussion in the future? Okay, and yes, okay.

Madam Mayor, are you asking me, Madam, can I speak?

Did I hear yes on both on the phone? Yes, okay, go ahead, go ahead.

So as you know, our firm represents cities all over the state. The issue with Orange City is not minutes. The issue with Orange City is public records. Our other clients so far this year have had between 100 and 300 public records requests. Your city has had over 1,800 this year. That is burying staff. And if you get that wrong, there are criminal and civil liability if you get that wrong. So that is the issue more so than AI in minutes. It's staffing and public records. Just putting that out there.

Thank you.

I have a comment for that.

Go ahead.

Yeah, so then I would say if we are that much further ahead, and I don't know that you said that just one city is 300, but if we are that exponentially inundated with public records requests, I would have to say that there's a red flag somewhere. So we need to kind of figure out what's going on and maybe do some sort of investigating what records are being requested. And is it the bulk of it police? Is it fire? Is it city staff? Is it normal everyday business? Those kind of things.

bulk of it is police um and we do have a records coordinator position starting on thursday to assist with the big amount of public records requests so the pd is hiring an additional oh a new position nice they are hiring a records coordinator i wouldn't really i don't think you consider a new position i think he kind of i don't know what we did but um think jerome may have given up a position maybe um to afford to have that records coordinated position because ultimately they are the bulk of the request between body cameras and everything else it does require a lot of time and attention so okay anything else councilwoman t amson no that was all okay vice mayor new business

Yes. Okay. This morning on Fox News, Mayor Avila from Deltona talked about residents abandoning animals in the city. They had their meeting last night, and the council voted unanimously to fine these people. $2,500 first offense, $5,000 second offense, $7,500 third offense. This will help with animals being dumped in the city. Is this something we need to investigate in Orange City? That's my question.

yes council you want to bring it back for discussion absolutely okay uh council women on the phone you okay with that yeah okay all right thank you thank you thank you any other new business councilman knight um i've had some conversations with some parents who have some uh

disabled and mentally challenged children as well as young toddlers who want to enjoy our splash pad because we do have a really nice splash pad that they're able to do if you're neurodivergent obviously you have issues with how you interact with those types of things and they're having problems with the water up and neurodivergent children which we do have quite a few of autistic individuals within Orange City and surrounding areas the parents after speaking with them felt like if we had a feature, a water feature that maybe showered down on the splash pad where those children and those toddlers could better enjoy our splash pad, they felt like that that would be a great addition to the splash pad. I did have a conversation with a vendor while I was at Florida League of Cities. And he explained to me how expensive something like that could be. And I explained to him we have an existing splash pad. He said if you have an existing splash pad, he said you'll save a ton of money because they literally just take the feature and bring it and they go ahead and set it over an existing hole where the water is. So I would like to see if anybody would be interested because I would like to be able to see some of the neurodivergent children as well as the younger toddler children be able to enjoy that splash pad every day like regular children do. So I just wanted to see if anyone would be interested in looking at that.

Okay. Council, you okay bringing that back for discussion? Yes? How about on the phone?

Yes, we can discuss it.

Okay. Thank you. Any other new business? Okay.

We did the approval minutes already.

council and mayor's comments any council comments a couple weeks ago city manager talked about it we went to several of us went to the Florida League of Cities and attended their conference and I just want to kind of give you what my experience was this was my second year attending from the minute we got there Up until we left it was non-stop You have session to session to session some sessions overlap that you want to go to you've got to decide which ones you want to go to It was three days and nights of sessions conversations We learned from other cities and talking with people who deal with some of the same challenges that we do here in Orange City We heard from council members and commissioners and mayors we even had a Pulitzer Prize winning author who was a speaker of um who has her whole life has been just completely engulfed in in the political realm in presidents and and things like that um and her her you know listening to her was just amazing we met vendors who offered some solutions to real problems along with services that um spark some ideas of some things that could benefit our own community and it was a lot but it was worth it and we came home with a wealth of knowledge some of my key takeaways is social media has become a huge thing and we've worked hard to try to make sure that we're transparent with our citizens by increasing our social media presence and stuff like that the last couple of years. They did have a session that really stood out was that Coral Springs had shared that they have a rumor has it program where they create short videos responding to rumors or misinformation circulating in the community, and residents can submit rumors or questions on the city's website, and staff researches the facts and responds. Of course, we don't have the staff to do that, but the big takeaway was that responding to social media posts matters, even if it doesn't change the original poster's mind, and other people see the response and recognize that the city's being more transparent and engaged. So that's something we've always said up here that we need more of is transparency and communication, which I think we have improved on 150% in the last two years. But I thought that was pretty an interesting take on how they handled some of that. Another session that I attended was called Small Cities, Big Ideas. It focused on practical ideas that smaller cities can actually use. Some of the stuff that stood out to me in that session was that fixing roads and sections. Because we always know roads, everybody's complaining about roads around Orange City. Harley Strickland is horrible, we already know that. But they talked about fixing roads and sections instead of waiting until we can repave an entire road. Some cities fix the worst parts first and finish the rest over time. um harley strickland we we kind of talked about all that um and you know if that was an approach we could take but we've already got some some plans for that there was creative community funding one city partner with a local elementary school for a public family movie night they wanted to have something we already have a movie night that we do here in orange city for our families and our citizens But they wanted something that was a different kind of event. It was a movie night, but it was expanded, if that makes sense. It had more food trucks, that kind of thing. So they had partnered with the local elementary schools for a public family movie night, and the students raised funds, and the city handled all the purchasing setup and everything else that was needed for a big family event. So that was pretty interesting. We talked about making tough decisions. Sometimes decisions have to be made that aren't popular. We know that. I was warned about that before getting on council, that it's very difficult because I want to be a voice for citizens, but at the same time, we know we've got decisions we have to make that's best for the city as well. And we talked about, you know, a lot of them are having issues hard time making decisions that are tough because sometimes you don't want to make that decision. You want to make it differently. And they talked about listening to people's why and being able to explain the why behind our decisions is important and to be empathetic and not emotional. And I thought that was a very a powerful statement when they discussed all of that. One was public and private partnerships and to think outside the box, to educate residents on municipal government is responsible for. Our city already does that, I feel like, because we have our own Citizens Academy, and I think that really helps educate the public. When you take an interest and you take the time to sign up and go to it, I've talked to a few folks who have taken the Citizens Academy, and they were just amazed. They had no idea what all those other with city council, behind the scenes with city staff, what all it takes to get a project up and running, and how long it takes to get something to a construction phase. So I thought we've already pretty much met that for the most part. We've probably got some other things we could do with it, but another one was seeking state support. We already try to do that. We try to seek state support. But one city had petitioned the state for funding to help residents who needed roof repairs not covered by insurance. And the funding also helped with other community improvements. And it was something that we could explore for seniors and residents with critical needs. Because we all know what the economy is like right now. A lot of people, food costs and all of that have gone up. Um, they talked about council cohesion, which I thought was very important that a council that listens to each other and works together and doesn't work against each other gets more done. And honestly, that's the kind of collaboration our residents deserve. And I think we're working towards trying to achieve that, um, over the last few months. Um, another one was expecting the unexpected, um, cities have to plan for uncertainty. whether it's funding changes, property taxes, and economic shifts. And this is what we're trying to do right now with budget reviews and looking at fire assessment and planning ahead. We're trying to be proactive so we don't end up having to be reactive when that time comes. Another one was transition and sustainability planning. They talked about cities need a plan so when mayors or council members or department heads change, the city can continue operating smoothly and continually. and continuity matters on that, which it's almost like you have your contingency plan, right? So when you have that shift, because we don't, as a city and city council, your city council members can change with elections, your staff can change with turnover, and that kind of thing, so you just have to have that plan. Another one that we went to was Beyond the Cone, a practical disaster playbook, which was very eye-opening. I did not know this, but Florida has a statute that allows the state to take over electronic billboards during emergencies. And that's so they can broadcast important information, which I thought was quite interesting. They talked about being proactive versus reactive in responses and how cities have to prepare for a storm when it hits like staffing, food, water. I think this is something our city already does. We're already proactive in that we get prepared for storms ahead of time. We talked about county and state coordination. Smaller cities could reach out to the county first if we think we need help. and the state's prepared to respond statewide, but we should not expect much from the federal government during emergency response. I was really surprised to learn that FEMA realities that residents often misunderstood what FEMA actually provides, and the maximum homeowner assistance is usually $86,000, and that is adjusted every October 1st of each year, and the average homeowner assistance is usually only $4,000. So that just tells you where you can turn to and who you can't turn to. Communication during disaster is very important where leaders, including council members, need to be calm, clear, and affirmational and people need to hear, here's what we're doing and here's how we're doing it after a storm happens. And I think that's very important that we communicate out to the community for that. And another one is educating residents. Now we need to explain ahead of time what FEMA is and isn't and what the city does and doesn't do and what the state handles. And those conversations should happen before a disaster and not after. And I'm pretty sure our city has those conversations prior to. Florida is pretty good about making sure that they have those conversations. But the Florida League of Cities was packed with information and ideas and examples of what's working in other communities, and it reinforced the importance of transparency, collaboration, and preparedness, and thinking creatively. And we came back with practical tools and new perspectives that can help Orange City continue moving forward in a responsive and effective way. And I just really want everyone to understand that when we go to Florida League of Cities, it's not going down there for a party. We actually go down there, we attend sessions. We work with our peers across the state and have a lot of good discussion. And it was just, it's always educational. You always learn something new. So I just wanted to kind of share that.

Thank you. Anybody else? Councilwoman Stafford?

Yes, Chair. I would like to... I would like to apologize to our residents, our city clerk, our city attorney, city manager, and the staff. We realize, I also went to a meeting down in, when we went for the Florida League of Cities, and the knowledge that you get, especially when you go in person to those ethics committee training, It was unbelievable, unbelievable. And city clerk, one of the things that he really, really, really went on about was our city clerk is not our administrative assistant. Our city clerk, along with everybody else, her major duties is to make sure the city is ran efficiently. And she is doing that with everything that's going on. And I want to take my hat off to you and apologize to you. Apologize to the residents because we are not this council. this council which i am part of we're not doing what we should be doing for our residents we have too many personal and like some of the residents came to me they told me you get too emotional up on there stick to the facts hey you can be passionate about your city but all this emotion has to go and i agree with them we need to focus on the business of the city not anything personal whatever whatever is going on personal shouldn't come into business so and once again i take my hat off to our city clerk with everything she's going through she doesn't allow her personal life to interfere with her professional life none of our none of our staff does And if we stop, if this council stop giving our staff just, we have too much going on and we're giving them stuff that we can address at a later date, but we want answers right now, right now. And they still haven't completed the task that you gave them in November of this year. We need to consider people We need to consider how hard they're working. We shouldn't question, well, we should question if they are abusive or any of their duties and responsibilities. But we have a great staff here in the city of Vernon City. Yes, we have a turnover now because some of the people that I spoke with when they left, They said because the city, they probably would stay, but they're getting better opportunities and our city is so unstable at this time now that they don't know if they come in here today and they tell them you no longer have a job. So they have to go where they have security at. I apologize to the residents because we are not doing this council. We're not being individuals. We're not being individuals speaking up what's in the best interest of our residents. And that's what we're not doing. We're taking it so personal. And maybe I have taken it personal sometimes because I love my, like they said, my city. I've been here too long not to.

Thank you. Anybody else? No.

There was also multiple classes on Amendment 3 that's coming up. There's a lot to this amendment. There's a lot of websites out there for and against how it affects small cities, large cities. So know before you go. You really got to research this amendment before you vote. Thank you.

Councilwoman Thompson, you got anything?

I do not, but I do want to piggyback off of what Councilwoman Stafford mentioned. I feel like we are doing our due diligence to the city when we ask questions and questions that they do have, whether it be on social media or face to face. And we bring that to city council and ask those hard questions, whether or not it's in your timeline or someone else's that's just something that we need to do so that's what i want to say to revive thank you councilwoman richardson nothing at this time thank you um i'll just close with um

I'll concur with what Councilwoman Thompson said. I think that some of us are doing that up here. Maybe not all of us, but some of us are. I really wish that we would say our city, not my city, because if we're gonna work together, it should be our city, all of us, not my city. That offends me, okay? Because if we're gonna work as a team, and that means residents and the council, then let's say our let's start with that that's one way to get started here because i would rather get things done and do that also and when i hear all the things from league of cities i remember saying all of you you know i'll i'll stay back because we were we were saying about the money and all that and i was like we'll save money i've been there eight years i get so much out of that also i love it The opportunities, like Councilwoman Knight said, is to meet people that are in common troubles that we're in, to share those things, to talk to legislators. All that is such a great experience for us, and I think it's well-spent money. I'm the only one that stayed back after that whole conversation of let's save money and not go. I say, okay, I'm not going. And then the rest of the council goes. so the mayor wasn't there because i thought we were saving money but that's okay i'm glad y'all went i'm glad you got a lot out of it you could share with the residents so they can see that we're actually trying to learn something up here to make things better for everybody um and i think that's a good way to start with what what you're all saying is you know let's let's let's do something here let's get something done when i listen to councilwoman knight say about the um the citizens academy that was one of my initiatives other all you got to do is not reinvent the wheel look around the other cities they're doing it and people love it so so that's what we do up here we come up with our initiatives our new business to bring back things to make our city better for the residents right um and so social media when i came on the council eight years ago we didn't we didn't do social media that much it was it was a no-no um and i think it's because we were kind of scared we didn't know what we were going to get out of it and so i kind of pushed that too let's do it let's do it and the council jumped on board right away and said let's do it we're going to be transparent We're going to connect with our residents. We got the OC Connect. We got all these things to know what's going on. And I think that was a good success for this council to do that. Sometimes it bites us in the butt because we get some social media posts up there that they just don't like us too much. Or like you said, that one app or whatever you were saying at League of Cities with the, you know, Saying things rumor has it. Yeah, we already have that rumor has it. It's just not us doing it. It's social media doing it so all as I could say is I'll close with don't believe everything you read and Have a good night. We just need a motion to adjourn Yes

I just want to make sure, so I think there may be a misunderstanding of what council member Stafford was saying. I know when you say, she says my city, and you're saying you get offended from it. I think what she's just doing is she's explaining that she's got a personal stake in it.

We all do.

Right, right. But it's just the way I think maybe it's perceived. I don't think she meant like my city. I think she's making it personal, not just for herself, but for everyone.

Also, I'm saying is we've all been here whether you've been here generation after generation. I've been here 11 years I care about my city. I got staking it to whether I've been here three generations or one So let's I was just let's just say an hour.

Can we adjourn please? Excuse me.

You don't have the floor

Motion to adjourn, please. Anybody? I make a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor say aye.

Aye. Meeting adjourned.