Township Board - Regular Meeting

Yeah.

Wow, thank you very much.

Pledge of Allegiance, everybody. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Well called. Well, everyone's here except Ed, who We'll probably be joining us later. Public comment.

In August of 2025, the Board approved the purchase of an updated version of the Civic Plus hosted website and renewing the contract with Civic Plus. This updated version went live this March 3rd. With all due respect and four years of frustration, I am taking a different approach with my campaign for a more transparent, accurate, consistent, timely, and user-friendly website. Hopefully with the presentation, you will see, a visual presentation, you will see as well as hear my concerns. I invite you to follow along. This is when I asked Ed if he would bring of the website, but I also, I don't know if you can, but I have, you'll have to share them. I have some hard copies of the website pages that I'm going to. Well, yes. These all say name. This is a hard copy of the computer pages or web pages I'm going to mention in my presentation. I don't think you guys, I don't know. Do you want me to bring it to the front so you can all follow along on the website? How do you want to work this?

You have like three minutes. Can you do this in three minutes?

Maybe not.

Okay. Well, maybe a better thing to do would be to have you on the agenda and make an agenda item so we have a full agenda. I don't care, but you want to get done what you want to get done?

Yes, I'd like to get done. If you need to cut me off, then cut me off. Okay. I chose six examples to illustrate the shortcomings of the website as a powerful tool and resource. for communicating with the public the priorities, actions, and decisions of the elected township board committees and township departments. Staying with the left side of the home page, under news and updates, there are four items. All were posted May 8th, 2023. All four provide information on the same sign-in procedure for township notifications. With the first page priority placement, I'm baffled that something labeled news and updates would feature three year old items. Further, with the previous version, I signed up for alerts and notifications without creating a password access account. Only a valid email was required. I now have to have a password to receive them. Thank you, Jennifer, for sending me a personal email with today's agenda and board packet, since I have not created a password required notification account. I'm confused because I continue to receive Civic Plus emails regarding parks and recreation, but no other township boards. On the homepage, Click on Agenda and Meetings tab under the photograph. As you can see from the Agenda Center, the only posted minutes for any board, committee, or commission are January 8, 2026 Harbor Commission. Thanks, Jim. And 2026 January and February and March Parks and Recreation Committee. Thanks, Vic. There are duplicate tabs for board special meeting and township boards. Staying on the agenda page above board meetings, agenda and meetings, it says agenda and meetings prior to 2025 can be found in the document center. Click on document center. Within the board meeting tabs, the minutes are not listed in chronological order within the various years. Also, Under the archive system, there are no minutes for the 2025 township board meetings. Only the trail project and master plan documents are archived. The Open Meetings Act of Act 2261 of 1976, passed 50 years ago, states, in enacting the Open Meetings Act, The legislature promoted a new era in governmental accountability and fostered openness in government to enhance responsible decision-making. Nothing in the OMA prohibits a public body from adopting an ordinance, resolution, rule, or charter provision that requires a greater degree of openness relative to public body meetings than the standards provided for in the OMA. The OMA requires proposed minutes must be available for public inspection within eight days after the applicable meeting. Approved minutes must be available for public inspection within five days after public book body's approval. The proposed and approved minutes should be placed on the website within these time frames. Requiring the public to come to the township hall to review the minutes is not using the base technology. It is treating the 1,529 non-primary residency-exempted property owners, PREs, differently than the 792 primary residency exempted property owners. And it is a robot to an informed public. Next, I draw your attention to the differences in the bio pages of the five board members. The pages do not have the same format, nor do they contain the same information. From the top of the homepage, click on Government, then on Clerk. As you can see, no picture, no statutory duties, email, or membership are listed for the clerk. It only states she was appointed in March of 2025. It does not state if and when she needs to run for the position. On the left-hand side of the page is a tab labeled Application for Township Committees. The only committee, board, or commission that lists the expiring terms is Parks and Recs. It makes no sense requiring an application for appointments to boards, commissions, or committees and not provide public with the expiration of said terms. Click on supervisor. There's a picture, phone number, a statement of when he was elected, length of term, and a link to his email. A list of statutory duties and a list of memberships. Click on treasure. There's a list of statutory responsibilities, list of staff, a phone number. There is no list of memberships and the page states, and I quote, he was appointed to fill a vacancy in 2020. and was subsequently elected to a partial term ending 11-20-20-fold. If you click on Ed Bradford's name, it will take you to a second page with a more detailed biography, a picture, and an email link. Staying on the Treasures page, on the left-hand side, you will see a tab that says Fiscal Year 2025 Adopted Budget. Click on that and you will see the approved fiscal year 25 budget. We are in the third month of fiscal year 27. Clicking on trustees page, Cindy and Matt's name are listed. If you click on their names, their email addresses appear. Please go back to the home page. Please click on recycling at the bottom of the page. There is no information on which days the bins are empty, the June 20th Onekama Trash Day, the Hazard Material Waste Day, or information regarding the long-term plan for the recycling bins. I listened to the May 8th special meeting of the board on the Manistee Public Television Station. Based on public turnout and public comments, the citizens not only pay for but also support the recycling efforts of the township and county. They want to help with them and they want more information about them. These illustrations are only six of the shortcomings with the website. On behalf of the 792 free property owners and the 1,529 non-free property owners and myself, I am asking the Board to take the following official action now to make the taxpayer-funded website more transparent, accurate, timely, consistent, and user-friendly. Please provide the financial resources and personnel necessary to ensure this important and vital asset is supported in the same manner as the assets and personnel of the fire department, parks and rec committee, or any other township committee or facility. Please seek public input on the website. Please notify the public of the timeline for the improvements to the website. The public deserves a website that reflects the commitment of the board to serve the public and provide the public with vital information on decisions and events that directly affect their lives and their pocketbooks. Having served as an unelected and appointed public official, I realized that members of governing boards often know, and I quote, the story behind the story. Through my education, professional experience, and my participation in Onekama affairs, I know the Onekama general public does not. An informed public creates trust in government, hinders rumors and inaccuracy, and makes for a stronger, more cohesive, and better community for all. I, as I am confident other Onekama Township taxpayers Look forward to learning of the board's action plan and timeline for making the website more transparent, accurate, consistent, timely, and user-friendly for everyone's benefit. Please make that sooner rather than later. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else from public comment? Joe, go ahead.

Thank you.

Some of the, you said I could do use public comment to do this.

update for the Onekama Walks project. Yeah, is that okay? I said I'd have him do it later on those things. That way we can get a brief program. Okay.

So just to update you where we're at with the Onekama Walks project out of the PLA Community Collaborations project. And I want to thank the board for the letter of support on this. Mary Jo McElroy and I are heading it up. We've had multiple meetings. We've had pretty good success. Good updates for you on probably the three main partners in this program are going to be the village, which has to be the applicant for Safe Routes to School, the school, which is registered, and they've done that already. They've already submitted student mapping information for the Safe Routes to School and the PLA in this. As you noted in your letter of support for us, it's a two-part project. Fix the north sidewalk through the village, and then also possibly collaborate or combine with Safe Routes to School, which is a state-funded program where we met with the Safe Routes to School people twice already. And what we learned was, Onekama has three schools, not one. We have an elementary, a middle, and a high school. Each school qualifies for $300,000 in grants for doing sidewalks. They also qualify for $15,000 each in grants for additional grants, so $945,000. After we toured the village and looked at all the aspects of it, The coordinator said that they are flexible and we could probably qualify for more than that to do it. It's a complicated process. It'll be about a year to complete everything and make the application. So we're targeting for next June next year. We've also, they turned us over to Michigan State University School of Planning and Development and Michigan State School of Engineering who would basically do the heavy lifting in this. The fee for that's gonna be about $9,000, which I believe the village is going to fund. And they do all the heavy lifting and all the engineering work like for the trails project, MSU is going to do at a nominal cost for it.

And the interesting thing was

The head of those two schools was there in 2011 when there was an original Safe Routes to School attempt made. We tried to figure out why it failed. We've narrowed it down to two things. At that time, there was a requirement for a number of students walking to school and also matching funds. Currently, there's no requirement for any student to be walking to school. There is no matching funds required. Currently, there are about 12 kids walk to school. There can be between 50 and 60 kids currently that would walk to school, but the schools told them it's not safe. And the school has shrunk down their busing routes and made them available for pickup. So it's about encouraging kids to walk to school. We've also, MDOT has contacted us and talked about for the main trunk line on M-22, we're looking at putting in two additional crosswalks. They will fund that. If there are other traffic calming measures that could be acceptable to the community, they will fund that. So we've got a pretty good grasp on it. So far, we've gotten support officially from the Village Council, the board. I want to thank you, Onegma Consolidated School and its board, the PLA board, Orange Lake Garden Club, the Safe Routes to School folks, MDOT, the Chamber of Commerce, local businesses. We're meeting on June 30th with the Manatee County Community Foundation to see if we can gain their support. On June 24th at 7 p.m., we'll be conducting a town hall meeting at the Forest Center, which I invite all of you to attend. The purpose of that is right up front. This whole thing is in a conceptual or foundational phase. We have an idea. We don't have a plan yet. We don't have a lot of answers. What we're looking for from the public right up front is We want their input, their ideas, what they'd like to see happen, kind of a chance to submit a wish list, ask questions. We'll provide as many as we can, but we'll provide a good overview of where the project is right now at that meeting. So that's my update for that. Again, I thank the board for the letter of support, and we'll keep you updated on it. Thank you very much.

Somebody else on their hand? Yes, sir. My name is Jim Miller. I'm here with my wife, Sue. We bought a cottage six years ago here. We're here most of the year, and we're here today to support Libby. She's a neighbor, a great, great neighbor, and keeps us posted on a lot of everything going on that we need to know, and I think her comments about the website would support but there ought to be somebody in the area that could keep it more active and timely. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, just a couple comments on the website. I agree with Libby that there's a lot of room for improvement, especially given the funds that have already been expended on it. It's interesting, in terms of legal requirements, the Open Meetings Act only requires... a meeting to be posted 18 hours, a special meeting, that's it. General Property Tax Act, certain assessing information is supposed to be posted. So by law, the township doesn't have to do much of anything. And I'm sure as the clerk's aware, the clerk's office, it's not a statutory duty for the clerk's office to maintain a website. But I still think it'd be a great idea to hire somebody to keep it, you know, up to date, you know, maybe Shelly Jackson could come in a few hours.

Well, I'm not going to say she would do that. Well, I didn't talk to her about it. Oh, I thought maybe you already solicited it. No, but you deal with that. It's the thought. She's busy, but okay, thank you. Anything else, Tim? That's it. Thank you very much.

Dave, when can I expect a reply or an answer or just tell me you don't want to do it? That's fine too. I just, then I can stop

I can't answer your question because it's public comment. I guess we'll discuss it. Wait until Ed is here and talk about it.

Okay. I need to get home, so can I call in and still get into the Zoom meeting?

Yeah, I'll still be going, I'm sure.

I have a commitment, but I will try to do that. Could I ask that, Dave, you let me know what the decision is, and then I could share it with people who are interested?

Sure. Thanks. Thanks. Anybody else from public comment? Going? Going? Gone. Proof of agenda. I need to move two people up. One is Vic. Maybe right after minutes. And then Katie would like to go. She doesn't want to be here until 7.30. She can go after Vic. Brian, did you hear from him? I did not either, so. He may have told me the other day. Okay. Minutes. The approval of the regular board meeting minutes, May 20th, 2026. Anybody? I'll make a motion. We approve the regular board minutes from the meeting. It's all about running. It's on the 26th meeting. Support. Any discussion? None. Anybody heard? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? That's carried. about the special meeting minutes of June 1st, 2026. I would make a motion to approve the special meeting minutes from June 1st, 2026, as presented. Okay, second? Second. Second, thank you. Any discussion? Anybody heard? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? That's carried. Mr. Dantz. Mr. Dantz. Mr. Vick. Okay, thank you.

I've got a house full of people, so I appreciate going early. The only really action item, you know that we're working on the five-year parks plan. Last month, we had to submit to the county the community description, administrative structure, and the DNR history, which you guys proved. And Katie was kind enough to allow us to just Use the website so it's out there and they're going to grab it off the website that's done We have two deliverables for July 1st one are the goals and objectives Those have been on the website now for a couple three months. You may recall I've submitted those to the board So unless I hear something between now and the first we're going to go with those As I said, they're on the website The recreation inventory is also due. That's in process. We've completed all the things that are on the recreation map, all the Mecklenburg Township road ends, but we'll be looking at the county road ends and that sort of thing just to make sure that's clean, but that will be due by the end of the month. I don't know that we'll have to do anything for you guys to approve that, but we will have it submitted and then otherwise I think we're set. There are several examples of potential projects in the five-year plan that are already out on the website for people to look at. The specific projects are not necessarily part of the five-year plan, but they're out there seeking public input. We had a couple of new items that people had come up with that we'll consider, one being Outlet Avenue, the

Portage Point Summer Resort Corporation has the public dock on Outlet Avenue, and they also have the Sunset House.

And there was some thought about maybe doing some improvements to Outlet Avenue, maybe even a Sunrise House and that sort of thing. So we'll put that on the website to get public input. So that's another potential project. And then the other thing, this group knows that the original project TRAILS PROJECT THAT WAS A VILLAGE AND COUNTSHIP PROJECT WAS DISBANDED, BUT THE TRAILS COMMITTEE IS GOING TO LOOK AT DOING SOMETHING MUCH LESS THAN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, AND THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS NOW OF WORKING ON SOMETHING. MATT, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT OR NOT, BUT THAT IS ANOTHER POTENTIAL PROJECT FOR THE FIVE-YEAR PLAN. SURE.

AND THEN THAT'S A COUPLE PHASES. ONE WOULD BE THE FIRST PHASE THAT WE POTENTIALLY CAN try getting funded and working through more so local vision, which would be from Portage Point Road to Bayview, that intersection. And that would be like an expanded shoulder, because right now there's maybe some spots that might be three feet, mostly about two feet. And there's a ton of pedestrian traffic, bikes, strollers, you name it, on them all summer long. So we're just looking at a way to improve the safety for pedestrians up and down Portage Point Road, and that would connect us to North Point Park, the back entrance off Bayview. And then the phase two would be connecting Portage Point Road at M-42, a walking path of approximately five to six feet heading this way, which would be east from Portage Point Road, and then connecting to the village sidewalk that ends that prospect. there's a lot of work to do with that. I mean, part of what we did at the Trails Project, we started at Crescent Beach Road and tried to work all the way around the lake. There was just so many obstacles between wetlands, a need for easements, and the utility cost of moving those utilities was stretching into the millions. So we looked at some other options to try. And Joe just kind of gave an update of what the village is going to try to do, and then what we're, as the township, are going to try to connect in towards which would be the far west end of the village at Prospect Street.

So just in concert with that, our plan is to go all the way to Prospect. Correct.

So that if you're going to come this way, we can make the connection. Yeah, and that's what we're using the stuff that MDOT and police and Vanderbilt came up with using some of their engineering that, um, and we still have some, um, funds left through them to try to get, we want to try to see what we can, they had, they had way bigger and more in-depth stuff on Porsche by road, which I don't, I mean, I, I know why they did it. And that part of it was because it's, if you build a AASHTO required bike path, it has to be a certain width and the ball distance. And it just isn't that room. And so what we're proposing is something more like what exists there, but better. Because right now, I mean, you look on Horseback Road on each side, there might be something above the wives' table. And in some spots, it's not quite. But they're looking through surveys right now to see if there's enough for a roughly five-foot path on either side. So there is something in the works to try to get something done that goes to Portage Point? Well, and then comes from Bayview, if you're familiar with Bayview, there's a back entrance. So there's a North Point Park down there that would connect that North Point Park and you can walk up Bayview and then hop on that expanded shoulder all the way to Portage Point Road towards M-22. Second phase would be Portage Point M-22 connection coming around, which would be the lake side with about a five to six foot, depending on what we can sneak in there.

And then it would connect down to Prospect Street and

with like a crosswalk, which is way out in the open. And I don't know how many people have noticed that, but I noticed, I'm going to say within a couple days after they did it, when they re-striped that whole section, that's now in a passing zone. And we were asking for that for, as part of our initial plan was to not have that passing zone in there because people were trying to get, you know, you think by the...

Sorry, trouble hearing you.

By the Glenwood. And if you... would have thought about that maybe a year or so ago. It was a legal passing zone going back by the Glenwood. And so people are coming out of the village or coming in, pulling around people and passing there. And it's still 45 miles an hour. So that's a double yell. So we're getting traffic calming measures put in. And then the next would be having a nice trail coming. So, and the idea is to help non-motorized traffic move from Porsche Pointe And that whole area of the camp and everything to have a nice, safe way to come into town and get ice cream or get a coffee.

Yeah, and I would like to mention that where my motel is, which is Portage Lake Motel, people coming out of town around that curve are hauling up. And it's so dangerous. I almost got hit myself, let alone a lot of my guests are older folks, and with that, They walk a little slower than I can across the street. And I don't know. I've mentioned it multiple times to county police that we should get, and I don't know what we need to do to get a change, to get that speed limit changed.

That would be a tough one. It's not impossible, but that takes – the striping was a little bit – That took years.

Well, we started out on – I only got on the trails team like maybe a year and a half ago, and it started maybe – six or eight months or even more than that before I got on, eight months. And that was one of the things we were trying to do was some traffic calming measures. And one of the things that was on the slate from the very beginning is to try to get that switch to a double yellow line so people don't come around that corner and hit the gas. And then it's a passing zone. You can just go blowing around. And then you think about in the summertime by the Glenwood, there's people parking both sides of the road, like by your hotel, all that stuff. So that's one good step. And then the The crosswalk or transition point, as they call it, would be somewhere right around, would be slightly west of Prospect, somewhere we'd have to find out where the village and the township, somewhere in that area. And it's open view from each, you know, you can see quite a bit east and west, so it'd be a very safe thing. It'd be a motion or light-activated crossing that you can push a button and lights come on, and that way, provide a safe way for people to get back and forth across there. Do you want to stay on the right-of-way? Yeah, everything has to be in the right-of-way because that ship sailed a while ago. That's why at first they were saying we have to do this 10-foot with the fall zone. It's not even close. Without getting multiple easements and moving, I think we got Oh, my gosh, it was over 100 utility. Between poles and the AT&T boxes, it was over 100. The poles, they said, depending on what's up there, was between 10,000 and 12,000 per pole. It was like over 100 that needed to get moved, starting way over by Crescent Beach. And we just got to the point where we're like, okay, we're kind of beating our head against this wall, trying to jam a square peg in a round pole. It's not going to work. And so now we've kind of, we had a trails team meeting where we, everyone met, we voted to kind of try and go our separate ways, so to speak, but we're still working together. The village is working on their part with Safer House and trying to do some stuff with the sidewalks and businesses. And then the township, we're focusing on the Porch Point road area. And then that section from Porch Point into town that would help bring in the non-motorized traffic safely in town. So I just don't understand, is that the concept for Porch Point Drive from N22 to Bayview, is that a separate sidewalk or expanded shoulder? Expanded shoulder. So like if you drive down Porch Point Road right now, you see the white line and then there's a little bit of maybe, like I said, maybe, yeah, some places maybe as wide as it's taking, maybe it's less skinnier. What we asked F&V to do was to take a look at Porsche Point to see if we can sneak about a roughly five-foot expanded shoulder down both sides. Because right now you're talking maybe like this, so we're talking maybe enough for two people. Well, you know, they added about a foot to the shoulders on Crescent Beach, and that's really kind of what's happening. Yes, and the other thing that we're asking them about, and it's some traffic calming measures for Portage Point Road, which I'm guessing most people would appreciate, except the kids that are driving real fast. One would be eliminating the passing zone on the first part of Portage Point Road. And here's the thing, the speed limit is 35. The sign flashes at you 35. And if there's a passing zone, I don't know how you can... Usually when it's flashing, I think it's a little more than 35. Yes, right. So... The goal is to make it safe. Yes, right. His goal is to make it safer. Yeah. And so eliminating that passing, making it double yellow, and then potentially that I believe the lane is are about 12 feet wide and taking that lane down to 11 feet. So that would gain us a little bit. And then we'd have a little bit more on each side. So yeah, it's nice. And people could walk back and forth and come into town and not worry about getting run over. Yeah.

Cause when the curves on Portage point road,

And I like to do there.

And it's really sketchy to do them because, you know, everybody knows there's people that drink and drive. Or on their phone. Or on their phone. And it's only a matter of time there's going to be somebody getting hit over there.

Yeah. And the other thing, I mean, is this a little side thing we would like to try to do too is sew up the well where everybody goes and gets water. I mean, most people aren't familiar with it. kind of, I don't know, probably an inch step down around the well. And then there's a kind of a gravel area for parking. We're going to, that's another attempt of making something handicap accessible. There's a lot of, you know, people of all abilities wanting to go get water. And if you were able to park and we would make a handicap spot potentially and have, could have paved where the parking area is instead of having gravel that somebody could, get out with her walker or whatever i mean i i can use mrs samsel for an example she's i see her down there and she's with her walker and her little thing of water because she waters trees out of north point park and i mean there's this one person i know personally that uses that and goes in this water and then make the area kind of around that well something that if you didn't if you step off you're not going to fall in the bushes So they're just wintertime and get some really sketchy next yes so those are just some things that we're talking about and We need to solve a plan and then present it very similar like the village is doing was presented to the public And started looking for funding sources and look for One note for a man.

Yeah, because you're on my agenda Dave is And I said they'd wait to see us put three calming measures and in the village, and one of them is up by the village park, down the porch, next to your motel.

But I don't know, the thing they've discussed is bump-ups, but there's, I don't know if that's feasible for the village, so. It's kind of lousy to plow them. It's kind of lousy to plow them in the winter. Yeah. Back to Parks and Rec. You know that we've got this south section and we've done that over the last couple of years. We got the grant. The money has been received. Deposit has been sent.

We hope they have the remaining sections making it a U from the north to the south. And we're hoping that that will be done next week. That's the plan. We're also talking about a webcam on the pole. I've submitted an application to Consumers Energy to see if we can use it. Power washing started. We've got Northern Disposal coming out there, the Gazebo painting. I can get a chance to stop out there with all this damn rain, but hopefully it's going to be done if it's not done already. So good stations at North Point Park hopefully will be installed next week. We're trying to get them in before the 30-day thing then. We're going to then come to the board and say we'd like to also do an ADA upgrade to make sure that you can get from the parking lot to the fitness stations and we have enough money in our budget to do the match and see if we can get MCCF to provide us the rest of the match to make it both a fitness station and ADA accessible. Get rid of the trees at North Point that were a problem. We've got some repairs going on at Avenue E where it's all been washed out. Sklodorski is going to repair that. And we are working on the website to make it up to date. And that's about all for the group.

And the Glen Park tree got cut down?

Yes. Two of them did. Two of them that were going to fall on the bridge, and he did it. in such a way that they didn't fall on the bridge, they're down, and then pass would cut where there is a path. And I think it was Jean or Mariah were out there and said, you're a real length job.

Vic, is the only grant that's open with Parks and Rec, the ADA walkway right now, the foundation? Yeah, that is the only foundation grant right now. And then, of course, you know, we have the

BEING DONE I'M ASSUMING THE GRANT CAN BE CLOSED WITHIN 45 DAYS UM YES IT COULD BE OKAY AND THEN BUT YEAH I AM GOING TO GO FOR A SMALL FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR GRANT THAT ADA ACCESS TO THE UH TO THE UH FITNESS STATIONS AT LARGE POINT OKAY OKAY BUT I MEAN I WON'T DO THAT UNTIL I COME TO THE BOARD AND GET THE BOARD'S APPROVAL TO DO THE INQUIRY But that's in our plan because we want to make that ADA accessible.

The only reason I'm bringing it up is one discussion you and I had. Right. And I actually, I was trying to get a hold of Sarah today and didn't get a hold of her, but I wrote an email because I want clarification on that because of another agenda item tonight regarding the DNR boat launch. So I just want to get clarification on that whole I didn't have two grants and

Yeah, and I don't know the, since you can't have, they just want to have a status of it. I don't think that would get in the way, but I would make sure we get clarification before I ask for an inquiry.

Okay, thanks. Jennifer, do you want to, should we act on this approval of the five-year plan now or wait until Ed gets here and do it?

No, I think it would be fantastic to have a motion. Who would like to offer that?

I would make a motion that we Prove the five-year plan, goals and objectives for the parks and rec.

Second?

I'll second.

Discussion? The only thing I wasn't sure about, I saw you made a comment about potentially altering that.

No. We submitted the original goals and objectives, and then we received the finalized version of the county survey. That county survey has had one minor change to that. That change was submitted to you guys last month. So, no, everything that's on the website is final.

Do we have to do a roll call? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

Opposed? That's carried. Okay, the only other item, and I don't think that it requires board approval, is we'll be updating the recreation map as well, and we'll get that done by the end of the month.

Right. I don't think you need board approval for that. Well, that's it, sir. That's it. I guess you can... Thanks a party. Thank you very much. Thanks. We'll be over for dinner. I'm going to enjoy the sun. Yeah. I'm glad I rented a fondue, though. Everybody's dragging Santa. Yeah, me too. I should be able to enjoy a sunset tonight. Here?

That was dripping. Couldn't you tell that was dripping with sarcasm?

Katie, you want to go now? Yes, please.

Good evening. I am back for you tonight to talk about the zoning and blight service contract. I did not make any changes to the contract document themselves, but I did incorporate the additional updates that we had discussed last month. Some of them were pretty minor things like removing what Cindy had called out from the comprehensive services that was in parentheses. And then the biggest thing that we discussed that I added was requiring a copy of a certificate of adequacy or finalized building permit and finalized well and safety permits as well upon the closeout of land use permits. I did have a chance to talk to Tom about this as well. And he felt that, or he feels that if that's something we're going to look to require, he would strongly recommend that it's spelled out within the zoning ordinance. We went through the sections and he agreed with the fact that like the dwelling standards do require that you're compliant with, you know, state and federal. Yeah. And that you're compliant with the health department, but had some concerns of, um, how legally defensible it would be. Should someone want to challenge us requiring those documents at the close out of a permit? So his recommendation would be to amend the permitting section to, um, require, you know, to spell out that those things are required. So that it's clear and then putting it on like the application documents and the permitting documents, these things will be required at the end. So in the meantime, you know, I had said, well, what if there's ones out there right now that we're wanting to require this documentation? He said, of course, you can go for it. but we may be challenged and shot down in court. So Tom's take was kind of like, shoot your shot, take it to the magistrate. If there's ones that you've already permitted that you then want to require these documents for at closeout and give the reasons of it's in the dwelling standards, it's a public health safety and welfare concern, you know, we're it's understood that these other agencies may not be looking to litigate over these items. So like we're taking it into our own hands to do so through the zoning ordinance. But again, strongly recommended that if that's something that we're going to do going forward, that it is identified within the zoning ordinance. So with that, I think that could be, you know, a conversation for another day, unless you guys wanted to get into that tonight. But regardless, I'm happy with it. I'm happy with leaving this in the contract. So it's very clear that as having the planning department as your zoning administrator, that this is something that we will do and uphold under the new contract. And then we would recommend along with your attorney that it's buttoned up within the zoning ordinance if this is something we're going to require for land use permits issued. Outside of that, I did not make any further changes. You guys still have the marked up version of Appendix A, but those were the only tweaks that were made from the last board meeting. And with that, I would just ask for any questions, comments, or concerns. And I am seeking, if you guys are looking to sign on with us again for the next three years, I am looking for a motion to that effect. I'd like to take all the contracts to the Board of Commissioners in July for approval.

Hi, Ben. Okay.

And you guys have two versions of the contract. You have the existing level two, and then I put together the level three for us acting in a more staff capacity for the planning commission, which would obligate us to attend all the planning commission.

I was going to move that we approve the contract for the level three service with him.

that was ed was in favor of kind of getting more of that he was but he's not here i see that is there a second i was second okay any other discussion one thing i'm saying the other thing for the permit is that we did require that we i believe we would have a change of learning agreements because i don't think we have enough power for those for you guys to just say I'll give you an example of the health department. We have that issue right now where they said it's not good, but are they going to do anything? Don't know. How does that fall back on us? I don't believe that it should fall back. That board order. Well, it's in the zoning order.

Right, right. And I think the point that David is making is litigating on behalf of the other agencies feels a little bit unfair. If the health department has a violation for an approved well or septic permit and they're not necessarily going to litigate on that in all instances, you know, the township can step in and do so. Same with someone not complying with their building permit. A state will red tag a building, but they're not necessarily going to deem it on not be viable or take someone to court. From my understanding. That was only conversation time. Yeah, I've had.

So then it's... What if we could do something like with the fire department? Mutual aid thing. No, you can't burn it.

And build back the agencies. Right. I don't mind doing something. Here, I'll give you an example. They pay a well septic permit cost, I don't know how much is it, 500 bucks? Probably more than that. So now all of a sudden they want us to live a And we spend money we never collected to enforce a rule that they have that we don't even have purview over. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. We can't bill them.

No, no.

Bill them. Yeah, we can bill them. Send the bill to anybody.

And, you know, we could see how one in particular that I know we're all aware of plays out. Yeah, if the township does not pursue enforcement initially and... they're occupying the property and the health department is fully aware. I mean, we could kind of hold out and see if they do something.

Let's say they don't get an occupancy permit because you're saying they don't have a well and septic, okay? I can tell you of all the houses we've done in the last 40 years around here, less than probably 20% get an occupancy permit. If it's a builder using a bank, yes. Right. Is there anything other than that?

Well, and that's why I put in here finalized building permit. I mean, it's kind of one and the same. And that's the same thing. Yeah, right, right. And we can find those on the State of Michigan website. Those are really easy for us to just, like, check if people are pulling them and if they're final.

It just seems odd to me if it's a public health and safety thing where if someone, let's say, Bill, not where it needs to be, and it's next to a creek, let's say, and that creek could potentially start being contaminated by this person's, that is also flowing into a lake that we're all trying to protect.

It just seems like we're not doing what we should. Well, do you want to go further? We haven't voted on this, have we?

Have you done talk about this right now?

No, I'm just thinking out loud. Do you want to do a roll call or just simple I think I'll do roll call because it's kind of trashy. Yes. Cindy? Yes. Jennifer? Yes. David, yes. Ed is absent. So picking nothing on the health department. But when it was high water around here and those systems weren't functioning, they're in water, their stand was to do nothing. Nothing. Okay. Okay. That's not appropriate either. When you send me a letter, it says 65% of the systems are not optimal because of the high water table. Well, then the field was in water. Tanks were in water. The water was, you know, so high. Everyone forgets about that. But there we are. Can't make somebody fix some. I know the whole deal is. I got it years ago. I had a permit. It was valid. Just because the water came up doesn't mean it's not valid. Thank you.

I agree with Katie that the kind of work not in concert with the health department on this is a lot of problems. Shane Machen, if you go to the health commissioners, Okay. So you got Shane Machen from, I forget which, she's one of our county's representatives on that. There's Nick Krieger, who's also an attorney. They're looking to hire a new attorney at the health department. So I think you have to contact those people, not just, you know, if you're talking with Frank, I mean, I don't know. That's Frank's boss, so I don't know who else. Max Borkman, who's his boss? Yeah.

think you got to go over if you want something done you're going to have to go over there ahead okay okay good thank you yes sir i don't know if katie's going to rush out the door or not but um jennifer sent me a generic certification of decision for the zba so that the zba and we had a when we have a meeting right now and come to a decision and we do our vote, it ends up in the minutes and then the findings of fact have to be typed up and days. And this would be a form that we could sign on the spot and give to the applicant so that he could come to the planning department and get the permits that he was after with the CBA decision. And I just wondered, are we going to start using that or are we So are we going to see that at the July ZVA meeting?

Yeah. Yeah. We can make sure to bring that to the July ZVA meeting. And we won't put all the findings on there. That will still have to be in the draft minutes. And draft minutes made available a little later than eight days after the meeting. But the real purpose of that document is so that the appeal period kicks off. Right. 30 days. So that's what the whole thing is. But yeah, we will make sure to bring. I'm proud of you for that meeting.

Okay. Anything else?

Not for me. Thank you all. I look forward to continuing to work with you. I know. I'm going to go get dinner at the Bluestone Bar and work with them. Oh, my gosh. That went until 7.30, so I had to make sure I was out of here at least by 7.

I think that was the all-time record last time.

No, it wasn't. It wasn't? Anyway.

Well, thank you very much.

Well, thank you all. Let me know if you need anything from us on like border point and develop. We've been meeting with Dave on.

Thank you.

Okay.

I'm going to wait until I add or just treasurer's report.

The treasurer's report has been supplied to the board members and posted on the website in the packet. And so whatever questions you have, you'll need to hold them until the treasurer appears.

A clerk's report.

So the clerk's report, community cleanup day will be Saturday, June 20th from 8 a.m. until noon or until the bins are filled. We have a primary election coming up on August 4th. You're going to see on your ballot a millage request for the Council on Aging, countywide, Dialeride, countywide, and the ISD, countywide. And I think last month when Heather was here from the Library of She mentioned that there would be a library millage proposal. It will not be on the ballot. It is my understanding that somebody missed a typo in the ballot, and the ballot language submitted says that they would raise $1.5 billion in the first year. It was inaccurate.

Maybe they lowered the price of oil. That is inaccurate.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect you'll see that on the November ballot. It will not be on the ballot. Yeah. For the township, our road millage will be on the ballot. And that is a renewal and technically a tax increase. We're asking to have it back to the original one mill as it was. But Pedley amendment requires that awkward verbiage. And then the other thing that we're going to see is the Onekama Schools has a sinking fund marriage proposal on the ballot. Okay. So those will be on August 4th. We will have early voting, the nine days of early voting in August. Those will be at the FAR Center. Everybody in the county will come to Onekama and vote at the FAR Center for the nine early days of voting.

How many people in the town are going to vote? How many other townships vote here?

Everybody.

Everybody? In the county, if you want to vote early. Oh, there's only one. I thought they were having, okay, I misunderstood you. I thought they were having one in Manistee and one here. Nope.

Nope, we've decided to just, we, all of the municipalities decided we would do one. It's more cost effective, obviously. Correct. And that is it.

Okay. primary election reports of the fire department. Rob have a... Rob submitted a written report. It's in the packet. Right. So I talked to, I didn't talk to Josh from the fire truck. But that sale should happen next week. They don't have to check out. So it's supposed to be here next week. The wheels of checks turned very small. I saw them all practicing on Portage Lake last night with the fire boat.

Oh, were they? I thought it was our fire boat. It probably was.

A large stream of water shooting from there. Oh, okay. Okay.

Harbor Commission, Jim. The DNR has finally given their approval for the FITPAC model. They have all those Finally found out who would have talked to Laura. They wanted $250 for a snow fee. And Cindy and I discussed this when we said we would reimburse Spicer because it would be the best way to get it to them. So Shane admitted that either Friday or Monday.

And they have it.

And today Shane said that he can't really tell me how long it's going to take, but he says there's nothing there for him. It's just a pagan project. So he expects the turnaround to be quite quick.

So the check for 250 goes to the DNR?

No, whatever it is.

Licensing regulation. We're trying to fix their launch. I mean, they own that, right? I mean... Every time you turn around.

But they're, if that north side parking area, they're going to either gravel it or pave it, so they are going to do a little bit. They are? Yes. Okay.

That was, Jim got stern with them. Okay. And we're going to have to come up with more, I'm assuming based on the 10% thing, you're going to want a little bit more money?

So, And sorry about the late send last night, but I was trying to deal with the Lara thing and understand how that impacted it. So I sent you the documents. Even with removing that, the potential exists, it could be 110,000. If you notice the one document that I sent you the numbers, the estimate, is $91,059, but since it's not a formal bid, I believe Spicer Group added that 20% just to kind of cover the dollar amount. What I was trying to do before the meeting, which I haven't been able to talk to the foundation, I felt that we needed a solid bid before I could submit the grant. but there were people disagreeing with me that we would be able to do it with the Spicer Group proposal. I don't know if that's true or not. I was trying to get confirmation.

Mainly due to that 20%?

I mean, this isn't a solid number. So, I mean, if we were going to make a motion tonight, the only way I can see us making the motion is that we would approve writing a grant for up to $110,000. We'll have to talk about the match in a second. The 10% match. Right.

We can award it that way.

That way we have it. Not to exceed $100,000. So that way I can see us doing it.

I mean, we've been monkeying around with those people for a while.

You want to make that motion? Sure. So apply for a grant up to $110,000. the 10% match from the township? Correct. Okay.

You just want it to say 10%?

Up to? Well, 10% because if it's less, I think everybody only wants to do 10%. They don't want to give a larger match. We have $10,000 in the budget.

And if it goes to $100,000, we get another $1,000. Okay. I think that covers it.

Okay.

You got that, Jim? Okay. Discussion? I almost think we better have a roll call vote on this, too. Matt? Yes. Jennifer? Yes. David, yes. Did they say when did it take to get an answer back from

Maybe the foundation, that's the next cycle, which is... Well, so the question is, and as you may know, I mean, between Jim and I, there has been conversation with the foundation for 18 months at a minimum, maybe up to 24.

So this isn't going on for almost two years.

Last two conversations I have had with them, I have continued to talk about doing an off-cycle grant because the last conversation I had, I knew that we were... not going to have this till now. And if we wait for the cycle, we didn't have the money till November. And they said they would entertain looking at it. Saying they would do it, they would entertain looking at it. If we do off cycle, we would know probably within 45 days. Okay.

Which should give us time to get it done before November. Okay.

Cool.

All right. Thank you very much.

No, have you ever worked so hard to fix somebody else's problem?

I know. No, just a reminder, which was what started this delay way back. We will have, which we'll have to do a separate motion, but there will be that gift document. Oh, that's right. We've got to say, hi, we did this for you, and now here you go. Give it all back to the DNR. So you're not surprised when you see that.

And each one of us will get an investment tax credit.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Me again. Okay. So you got another late email from last night. So we did do the preseason survey with Kaiser Associates and PLM. Phil Sattermeyer, who is my member of the committee, Roger Berger, and Doug Berry, who was chair, were all on the pontoon doing it. The really cool thing is other than like what I call hotspot areas, like the marina and some other areas where there's a lot of traffic, the efficacy of the treatment last year has proven to be really successful this year. And they didn't see anything like really alarming or unexpected. Natalie, you know, at this point. So that was really good news. And there will be a treatment. For those areas, but we're actually, and we had our meeting last Monday, had a discussion about a different product that's not the same type of chemical that people are concerned with being in the water. But there are two new products, and I'm sorry I cannot give you the name, but they deal with dealing with just phosphorus and things like that. And so we're talking about potentially using that. But I'll give you more information as it becomes more available to us. I don't think anybody on the committee was ready to go again. But what did come up, and I was... About the album, Around Little Ball? Yeah. So, no, what came up is I sent you the email or the communication regarding the Phragmites. on township property across from this gentleman's private property, which he has had treated. Well, what we realized, he had sent this to us and we did talk about it in February, but what happened, we didn't take any action because of the question of, are we even able to treat this under the special assessment district? So, I had a quick conversation or text with Ed, and the way the Special Assessment District reads it, and I wrote you guys a memo about it, it talks about that the purpose of it is to eradicate and control aquatic weeds around the Portage Lake area. And so there's that term around. How do you define that? Does around mean literally the perimeter? Does around mean in the general vicinity? So we weren't comfortable making a decision on treating this without coming to the board, although we recommend it should be done. Tyler Dula, who is with the Manistee Conservation District, mentioned that all of the special assessment districts that he's familiar with, usually instead of saying around, talk about particular watershed. and that way we would know the boundaries. So when I read the district language last night, it mentioned that for the control, like I said, around Portage Lake, and then it mentioned that the board was appointing the Invasive Species Committee under the kind of like watershed management, and that committee would be a you know standalone committee to make recommendations so that made me start questioning was the intent that around does mean the watershed but anyway that's the reason i wrote the memo last night and the invasive species is recommending treatment doesn't say in or around just as well around

It could be the wetland that's right around, but not in the water, but for me, it would include that.

We had members of the committee that felt this should be included, but because of that language, that's why the recommendation is coming to you.

Is there a way that we can't change it? What are you going to I don't think you can automatically modify that.

Ed and I just texted back and forth, and I said, we've got to resolve what's around these, whether we have Tom Greer give us an opinion on it, of what is defensible, or whatever. When's the treatment going to take place? Well, if we were to treat it, and that is a communication we would write... Based on Kaiser and PLM, the best time to treat Phragmites would be August and September. I mean, we can do it now, but... No, no, that's fine.

Do we have some time to figure out this? You need to run it by count. It's just more effective if we wait until August or September. Do you want to call him or do you want us to call him? I'm happy to call him. Well, you're more familiar with him. You want to do that. I think we just want that definition. Yeah, right. And then it could imply the watershed. Well, it could imply the immediate area around the lake.

It might just mean the shore of the lake. I don't think you want to imply the watershed.

I don't think you want to imply the watershed.

Because you see those signs that are... Well, and not all of Onekama Township resides within the Onekama watershed.

Well, it would have to be within Onekama Township, because the SAV does say that. But... Which is why I would avoid watershed language. Invasive species doesn't care what the answer is. It's just that I want to know what the parameters are. Okay.

So the treatment area is going to be way smaller than last year?

Not that one in the lake.

As of right now, yes. Okay. Well, that's good news. Anything else, questions for Cindy? No. Planning Commission? No.

We have a meeting tomorrow. We're going to have a presentation by Mike Sicola from the Networks Northwest. He's bringing programs to a lot of planning commissions for looking at child care ordinances to be added to townships or villages, book of ordinances. There is a grant from Community Foundation that basically pays for all of the, all of the publication of, in the newspapers of an ordinance being proposed. They have, well, they've done all the work. All we have to do is decide it's a good idea. And tomorrow meeting would also give the sport the chance to hear it as well for the village. save Mike an extra trip. Okay. I would report that we had two meetings last Friday with Bob Gazan. Did you go back for the second one? I did. Oh, you did? For the second one. And I must have been very encouraged with Bob's attitude with some of the decisions he's made. And I think we're going to be seeing some some real changes at Portage Point Inn in the coming, probably, it's going to take two years, but... It's a positive change. It is a positive change. And I think it's going to please the neighborhood.

So... In regards to the sewer, I actually contacted the consultant for the village and got ahold of him to was we didn't know but we thought there was no well so the consultant actually told me which i called bob today i need uh they have meters on the well bob has meters this guy wants to know what that flow is and he can tell me if in fact the village can take them on based on their flow because their flow is just for three months and it's in the summer not in the winter so much so if you've allocated by month it changes what they can do because they can handle where they run into trouble. So there might be capacity because you're off, you're only in summer here, what, three months probably? High water flow. So if I get those figures and give them to him, he'll calculate it out. So it's another option that I thought was better. So it may not be. So the other option was him putting

second meeting with Bob was with the fish pack engineering.

And this is the kind of stuff they do. Okay. Okay. And Bob, Bob has a horizontal ring machine that can go 3000 feet or needs to come up for air. That's a big bar. Just two inch just a little bit. It's just a two-inch pipe. It's 3,025 feet to the ball field.

So they'd have to come up rare and then dive right back in the water. Oh, okay. Anything else, David? I don't believe so. Okay, good. Thank you. Assessor and then roads. That's kind of a weird combination, just sitting there.

Well, it's only because you give both of those reports typically. When the road manager's not here... often compelled to update us.

Okay, so we're out looking and we're doing for testing, we're out doing permits. In fact, most of them are done already except for the newer houses that are being built. We're going to start doing sectional acreage for checks this year. So you'll probably see us driving around. We have to do 20% a year and we've done lake shore we've done village we've done i don't know i think what's left is sectional acreages which is all the all the sections coming back in towards town so uh if no one's home we knock on the door if no one's there we leave not supposed to be there the state has kind of changed the rules so you can't or used to measure before we can't do that anymore we just leave if we knock on the door and you ask us to leave you are home we will leave So we'll assess it from the road or from a satellite, actually. Can't run, but you can't hide. Roads, we have, well, obviously, I don't know if you've been, they start seal coating. I think we've got quite a few roads done already, don't they? Yeah. They didn't do Porch Point Drive yet. Okay. They did Joseph Road today, and they did Erdman Road. So I have the... Agreement, so they've already started doing it and doing it. We haven't even signed the agreement There should that be a stretch To negotiate it. Yeah, the board said I got good news of bad news They passed it, but they only agreed to half the money Then probably the last project they had for us Anyways, the total project cost six hundred sixteen thousand three hundred forty four dollars and The Road Commission agrees to match the amount of 50%. So the township match would be $308,172. Recommended contingency is $28,016. We have a 2025 unused advance of $6,627. So the contingency is in the figure. It should come in at He's thinking it's going to come in a little bit less than that. So, but I need a motion from someone to go ahead and sign this as there is a matching amount of 50%. The actual cost of the township will advance. We're supposed to advance 25% of the townships match prior to beginning of construction.

is they have only had so many days and the days have to be the right temperature.

Everything's got to be right. So they won't do it tomorrow if it's raining. It's going to rain tomorrow. It's good now to keep the dust down on the stuff actually. It's pretty good. Does somebody want to make this motion?

I would make that motion that we finish signing the contract that we have with the Farm Commission.

For chip seal for the 308-172 in advance of 28016. and apply a $6,062.70 payment off the bill that they send us. Yes.

OK. Second? I can sign it back. You can.

I appreciate that. Is there any other discussion? No. Matt? Yes. Cindy? Yes. Jennifer? Yes. David, yes. And then Ed is absent. Everybody has to sign this, Jim. Is that correct?

Okay.

I declare that a pass. We sign it with a pass.

Yeah, I think that would be our last road condition project. Are you safe?

We can go with a bang. Yeah. Okay, the next one is the, the other part of this was where they talk about doing a two-inch overlay on Berker roads and Otter Road after it was seal-coated. And they seal-coated it the other day, and I was, all the loose-ups there came in and said, thought they were supposed to pave it, and that was a snafu on my part. They are paving it, but they seal-coated it first to seal up all the cracks. and then they'll go over within two inches of payment, which is what we asked them to do last month. So that work order is a total cost of 310,755. Township match is 205,377. They would like an advance of 51,344 and recommended contingency of 18,671. So if someone make a motion to Do that, and we'll advance them to 51-344. I would make that one. Absolutely. Cindy? Second. Cindy, second. Any discussion? None being heard. All in favor? Oh, no, I'm sorry. Ma'am? Yes. Cindy? Yes. Jen? Yes. David, yes. Ed, absent. Okay. PLA community collaboration report.

We already had that.

That was his, okay. I'm not going to walk community engagement. What did he say the date was on that? June 24th.

It's also in your packet.

Thank you. New bid. Wow, we're already in the new business? Yes. Hire two new per diem workers for cleanup day. Do we have anybody?

We do have two workers for cleanup day. We have Mr. Will Bradford and Mr. Tom Bradford. And I would like to make a motion that we hire Tom Bradford, Will Bradford for cleanup day at the rate of $100 per person.

For the day. Okay. Is there a second? I would second that. Okay. Discussion? I'm being heard. All in favor say aye. Aye.

What's that, David? Did you advertise for that?

I think we usually just scrounge around for anybody.

Are you available? No. He wants to be the dumpster guy. Nobody really lines up for that. We usually take When they start bringing it, never mind. You need to go and watch what people bring, and then you'll know. Okay. I'll stick with that. That's actually, yes. You might be better. Okay. Mr. Munn, so he brought that packet in. It's got to be in the office. What color was it? It was a white, it said.

It was the surveys. Well, it was the whole closing packet. Vital insurance, everything.

But he brought it back in here, and somehow it ended up in the office, and we've looked, I looked, and nobody walked out with it, and he handed it to us right here. And he said, I'll make sure. Yeah, so we're going to have to go look, but it's got to be in there. But anyways, go ahead and develop why you're here. It's not for vacation, for a road vacation, because he doesn't want to vacate the road. Go ahead. After we've had Keith here from the Road Commission saying the road was there, he's not asking to vacate it. He's just asking to develop it on the road, not to vacate it.

Basically, it's not a county. The county road manager stated that they did the investigation, had the lawyers go back and look, and it is not part of the Clark Road right there. So it actually is right here. It runs up right off of Portage Point right here. And it is a county road and then that road actually goes up into this parcel and there's a turnaround. But there's a right-of-way right here that comes up and I'm just asking the township to grant permission to utilize that so I can get back to the five acres that I have back there. And it's already established. It just needs to be approved so that I can access it.

So it's truly not a road vacation. And Keith was here last month. I remember he talked about that it's not in their purview. He didn't think at all anymore. Somehow it falls in our purview, probably because it's a paper road. Even though somebody has driven on it, it's truly never been developed in the past. We've just given permission to the property owner on some of these paper roads in Wickley. If you want to develop it, you could at no expense to the township, but you had to figure out where the road was, not us.

Not the township. So I'm going to have the five-acre survey and the right-of-way surveyed so that it's staked out so I know exactly where I can access it. There's an old road there. It looks like Yeah, right. At one time, that was utilized. It could have been 40 years ago, 50 years ago, but it was already there. I'm just going to basically, you know, start using it. Let me put this whole thing off, if you want to remember.

He went and asked Brad, and then Brad told Brad, the fire manager, told him, hey, no problem. We'll survey it. We will do all these things, and we'll put a culprit in for you.

And then when he first called me months ago, I said, well, they've never done that in the 40 years that I've known him. And this gentleman here was there. He reaffirmed that. He was there and heard him state all these things on occasion. So it was, I don't know what, I just went by the county road commission.

Well, I know, I know, and then you called me, and what did I say? I said, no, they couldn't have told you. Right, and that guy's not there anymore. Right, and then he's no longer there. And then I said that he's no longer there, and maybe that's one of the reasons he's no longer there. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, so truly, it's not a road vacation. He's just asking us permission. When I saw a road vacation, I thought we were doing something different also. That's why I asked him. before the meeting tonight when I went over there and said, are you asking to vacate that? So just use the existing right-of-way paper road. The paper road. We've done that in the past. I don't know what the correct terminology is that we would say. Is it granting them an easement? No, because the road's already there. The road's already there. There's no easement. It exists on paper. All those roads. I don't know how it ends up back in our valley.

Let me just tell you. There's something in the zoning ordinance about it.

And that's why Tony probably has to get a hold of Jody to find out. There's probably some minimum standard that you'd probably have to. It won't be 20 feet either. It's only one carton. I don't know. I've been guessing. I've been lying to you.

That's why I need to get it surveyed so that we know exactly where it is. And it's staked out and it's surveyed. And- It's in the right spot. Yeah, it's just in the right spot.

That old road could be eight feet from right, you know.

Right, right.

Because they started taking trees and somebody says- Because somehow the county followed out. The county road commission has no control, so it falls back on our back. No, but here's my question.

So, he's stating that he needs to have a property survey. You're stating something about Jody being involved. So I guess my question is, what are we doing?

to work on that road right away. Somehow it's in our jurisdiction. Don't ask me how because I don't understand it. I think I'd like some input from the attorney.

Because I have some conflicting information. I'm not knowledgeable enough.

What is your information?

My understanding is that he would still likely have to go through the entire process of suing, informing all the neighbors, etc., etc., and that even if all of those things went your way, it's Public access you can't make it a private.

No That's not where I'm asking I'm asking just to utilize the public to get right around to get to my property He's not asking to be a driver, right?

Well, I knew that he just the road isn't honest. It's not an easement on his property actually something. It's a planted paper road It's not an easement. It's not a vacation. He's not asking to have an abandoned He's just asking to improve it. To get to his property here, he's using a public roadway, which they do all over the township. All of them are like that.

Yeah, and I think as I remember our discussion is if you improve it, others could use that. Absolutely. Yeah, somebody drives, they just can't go on his property.

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, anybody can use that. Right, right, right. Is there a turnaround at the back of it? If somebody does drive, they can turn around and There's a turnaround there now somehow before I get into Clark Road.

Yeah, there's already a turnaround that goes into that other property that the county turns around in there.

They follow up there and they have to turn a plow truck around. Yeah. But you want me to check? I can check with Tom because I don't know the correct verbiage we give him at the meeting and say, okay, we're in favor of doing this, now how do we do it, right? can do that tomorrow if you tell me you want to go that route i'll be glad to do that so we could make a motion then to grant his request to be able to improve that a plastic paper road but i'd rather talk to tom and ask him how i'm saying but then subject to the attorney yeah absolutely that way

If the time's good, we don't have to wait another month. That's all I'm trying to say.

Because if you survey your lot, you're going to know where the road right-of-way is without doing anything. But we'll know one side. You'll know one side.

Yeah, it needs to be completely surveyed. Right, the whole thing. The whole thing.

That way, the road ends up in the right-of-way and then someone's going to pop in and say, Hey, you left my neighbor on my property.

Yeah, they have. by a public authority. It can be a private road. You've got to be careful because each abutting landowner does them to the center line. So I'd be asking for permission if I'm cutting trees down on the other guy's half.

Well, if it's an easement, people going home to the center of the road, that's only on a regular road. They still don't own the property into it. They don't own anything. Yeah, they don't own the right-of-way itself. Yes. Supreme Court, 2010. Bound family to us. That's how it was determined. So then you're saying every road that's been cleared that is in the township, then how did all the trees get cut down?

There's other laws that give the public authority the right to cut down or travel. Dan, as far as I know, this is out of the subdivision, so I don't know. I'll ask Tom all that, but it just might do sense.

Is there any measurement on that that shows you how wide that paper route is?

Oh, yeah. Okay. I think it's 30 feet. That's great. Okay.

to refer to it according to the map.

So what?

Could you restate your suggestion?

Well, I remember we asked him to bring his dogs and his back because I thought he wanted to look at looking at the title work and the survey.

One of the two of us has filed them somewhere. He'll file it anywhere. It's got to be just sitting back there in a round world. I'd say, look, but I want to call Tom first, too, and ask him what the correct... I'd like to know what the correct verbiage would be so he's given the right permission so we're not back here three months from now. Yeah, I see.

When do you anticipate your survey being done?

Well, I've been waiting on this first.

I mean, I'm not going to... How about we do this? How about we do...

there's time to find you. Because like Brad said last month when he was here, all I have to do is once I have the board's permission to do access and utilize the easement that's there, I just have to pull a permit with the county to tie in to Clark Road right there. That's all they request is a $25 permit access. Yeah, the road commission. Yeah.

Okay.

I think I'm not necessarily comfortable. Can we get some clarification from the attorney?

What would it be his language and how to go forward with granting permission to use this or improve this paper road or access to whatever that

In the past, we've only... And I'm not saying it's right. In the past, everything... And I'm just going to preface that because we would make a motion that says, give you permission to go and prove this, pay per road, and no expense to the township, just get it surveyed. And if you have to follow a road standard because it's whatever the zoning administrator would say. Which isn't... I don't think in this case... In this case, I don't think it's very much. It's only... One-laner We got a lot of these that are developed and there's they're only had to be why right there look at their everywhere. Yeah, they're everywhere This is the same I'm saying I don't for making them on a little ball go because of that But I know you're the clerk.

We're looking at a difference in property But if somebody would like to Articulate a clear motion. We'll be happy to report that in the middle. Oh

Making too much of it, but what do you want to do?

Could you make a motion that you contact Tom Greer?

I don't think we need a motion for that.

Well, no, I'm just saying in the context of how... How about directing me to call Tom in the morning and say, how do I accomplish this? That's kind of what I was going to say. To access this piece of property, whatever property number it is. Right. That way it gives him some guidance. Then he'll get a survey, right? Yeah. Okay. I'll do that in the morning.

I'm sorry, what's your motion?

There's no motion now. The board is directing me. Is that okay with everyone? Yes. Weaving our wand on you. Weaving the wand, but waving the wand on the attorney. I think it's as simple as that. We'll see how wrong I am. It's the first time that's happened.

Sure. Oh, you label it or go with it. That's what I'm hoping the problem is, to make a motion to do what?

Well, let's just say it. What's the motion for? We're in favor of letting them do it if we can just figure out a way to do it right. Yes. There you go, right? And that's what we want. Yeah, we just want to make sure it's done in a way that's right.

I mean, it's just, you know, how do you word it? Access of an easement that the township... No easement. Don't say easement. Well, not easement, but access to... Access to so-and-so property.

You want to clear an existing paper road make a development to put a driveway into access through property off the existing Baker Road or something to that effect. I agree with that. Okay. I'll call him first thing when he's out of that. But that shouldn't be that difficult an answer, I don't think. But just so you know, Keith spent like two days with their attorney to get out of this. I don't know how that worked out. I thought he was going to handle it.

But then he said they had no jurisdiction after all that, right? Yeah, the county. Yeah, the county. Yeah. He said it's Township. Okay. Very good, sir.

We'll find that thing. It's got to be in there. I noticed because I took it right in the office after all. You brought it back. I think we're at the almost the end of the meeting with somebody else. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Thanks. Repair radar sign. Is the radar sign broken?

Yes. The radar sign is broken.

Which one? The first one, the second one.

I think it's the first one. And the cost to fix is $1,350. What's wrong with it? So many things.

So many things.

It's not that old. It broke. No warranty.

Can Bob fix them?

No.

Bob's out.

Bob's out. Also, we don't put Bob on ladders or anything.

That's true. Yeah, bad suggestions.

We don't want to end up in court.

That's why people are speeding. They don't know how fast they're going. Yeah, right.

It's been a while, yeah.

It's weird. I think it's something to do with the winter. You know what's actually wrong with it?

Never getting enough sunlight.

I have the estimate.

It doesn't look good.

It doesn't matter.

Someone make a motion.

I'm going to make that motion right now.

Thank you. I'll second the motion to fix the speed thing. Thank you. Discussion? I may heard all in favor say aye. I oppose. That's scary. On that thing, people have asked about putting any more of these up. Has anyone got an idea that they want another one of these somewhere? Have you heard from anybody? David mentioned it to me.

We have a new resident, a fairly new resident, last year in Red Park. It was right at the corner of Crestle Beach and Miller. You just can't believe it. The The speed of the car should go by. And as I mentioned to our president, association president, I'm aware of the cars at speed. They've always speeded. I'm also aware that, you know, there's never been an injury accident.

What stretch are they talking about? From Miller Road? Right at Campus Evo. Oh, okay. I know of one, but that's been a long time ago. Can people go flying through there too?

Mostly they speed up on the straightaway. I drive slow now. Just east of there. Okay. Once they get to like Doug May's house. Yeah. Going that way.

Coming into town. You want one? No. You don't want another one?

I wonder if it's something we need to, at some point we can

we address this with the sheriff's department or something and ask them, like, what do we need to do to get a patrol car here between Memorial Day and Labor Day weekend on certain times?

I don't know.

Because I've called and asked, and they just said they are short on... Don't they do the... State police are in quite a bit. I contacted the sheriff's.

You know what's interesting? And I don't know if Colin would do anything, but what I've noticed, I know there's been a lot of complaints of people in Arcadia about the speed going down 22. And now I've noticed, I'll bet you three days out of the past five, that there's been a sheriff sitting there.

Thanks for the tip.

A lot of where now sending? Arcadia?

After the 45 mile an hour. Oh, yeah. They're sitting like around where the Big Apple was.

Because it slows down.

But my point is, I don't ever remember seeing anybody sitting there. Now I'll think they've been there.

So I'm just saying there may be a way down.

Yeah.

When the radar speed devices were brought up for discussion and I was in favor of them and you guys voted to get a couple of them, I think there were like 5,000 apiece.

No, they were 15.

Okay, $15,000 apiece.

Two of them.

I asked specifically if we were going to be able to get data from those machines. Right. you know, how many cars went by, how many cars went by too fast.

Not to identify the cars, but just that would be nice.

I don't think that we bought had that capability. Well, I guess I'd like to make sure we didn't buy it or we did buy it and we're just not using it.

But people are driving pulled out from my own driveway is now people just come down the 22 like way too fast. It's like luge. I make those curves, and I make the curve on Porch Point come around by Porch Point Drive. They're going 65, so, you know, you're not going to stop that. I don't know how you stop that. Okay. Carol's driving, too. Well, if you have enough police to be set up. I think what works is putting the sign up. It tells you how fast you're going, and it blinks. They do that test thing. Maybe the thing that was asked the sheriff, and he would do that and set that up over there. That just makes people. On the trailer thing. Yeah. That kind of works if you get the same people seeing it, they realize that, hey, you know. Yeah.

And that's like, we had all these meetings and MDOT was like, they are very confident in their traffic calming measures. Right. I mean, anything that we can do to, but the issue of M-22 is greater than like a Portage Point Road, which is the county road. We have a lot more control over that M-22. Yeah. Because it's a state trunk line. They have to have like If you want to reduce speeds or whatever, it's a major undertaking. Okay.

All right. I'll call Tom in the morning on that other issue. Do you want to do anything on another one of these? No. Not right now. Another one of what?

No. Yeah, harpoon launcher. Going 50 over.

Okay, we're going to go to, well... I'm going to bring up Libby, what she brought up on her new business. I'm just going to put it there and say, well, it could go on unfinished too, but we're going to go in closed session. So is the, in fact, we need some updating on the website, obviously.

Sure. That's not a problem, I think, between the clerk's office and the treasurer's office. We can, once we get past the audit here, which is this week coming up,

You think we can do without hiring somebody? We can hire someone if you tell me we need to hire someone to help. I'd be glad to think of that.

I don't think we need to hire anybody for this. The rollover has been, you know, full of all sorts of little things that need to be fixed and aren't right and et cetera, et cetera.

So these things she brought up about the meds and that, that's accurate what she's saying, that some of them just aren't on there?

Yeah, and some of them from the past, like, they're up there, but they're all dated the same date. I don't know why that happened when they rolled everything over.

So, you know, it was like minutes that I had previously posted were like gone. I have zero explanation for that.

Yeah, when they combined them, the old and the new, because we were working on it in Parks and Rec, it kind of, there was some things that were there, some things that weren't there, some things that got move from a specific area to a totally new area.

So it was just a kind of a... And Vic has spent a considerable amount of time on his portion of the website. He also, you know, made extra effort to bring over people's names, etc.

It sounds like this is okay almost.

I have.

This portion of it.

Because he spent more than a full-time job's worth of time doing it.

That's what I'm asking you. Do we need to, at some point, do

I don't think so. I think it's just learning the new ins and outs and tips and tricks.

You know, Cindy volunteered all her extra time to come in and help.

And I appreciate that.

Right. And now, as summer is here, that is, time has gone. Her extra time is eight minutes a month. Eight minutes a month.

I currently have three subscribers, and I can add Libby manually to the list, but I only have three subscribers asking for it. updates.

So those didn't carry over either then? No. Nobody's carried over. That just hit me because I'm a subscriber. Nobody's carried over.

There's a lot of little things that are just out of whack.

You have to resubscribe. Yeah, I didn't even realize that.

So can you put Libby in without her having to? Okay. Libby, are you still on there? Libby?

I'm still on.

We didn't realize she'll add you on manually so you don't have to do that.

I appreciate that. And I beg to differ with you on having somebody make this their priority. As I said, I've been talking about these issues for four years. And when you I'm computer challenged. I admit that. But any conversion I have ever been part of, if you don't have it there, it won't show up. And what you put in comes out. So I just think that, I think it would be valuable to ask somebody from the public to actually have some input. I have a whole notebook full of suggestions that I have given for the last four years before we converted. So yeah, I really think, again, there is obviously discussion about this consolidated fire issue district there's a website that you can go to but you can't find it on the township website that makes no sense to me no link there's no link the only link i found was in the minutes the draft minutes that I was in the packet today, it, it, it doesn't make any sense and it isn't that hard. And I know I'm defensive, but really four years is long enough. So I want someone to actually, or yeah, I want somebody to actually fix it.

Okay.

We're talking about priority.

Thank you. I, I don't disagree with, um, some of Libby's very valid concerns. I will say Parks and Rec has had the advantage that Vic has donated a lot of his time and also has the access to the website to get these things out there seconds after they happen. And if they aren't there off there quickly, it's because Vic had a family emergency or something. But when the when the Planning Commission has a, we had a recording secretary who had forwarded draft minutes to our regular secretary who then had to get them, who didn't really know that she had to get them to somebody who could post them onto.

Well, that's not totally true because I worked with Michelle and Beata and got all the minutes from Planning Commission and that hadn't been put up and I posted them. This is going prior to the conversion, but they didn't flow through. Or at least last I looked, they hadn't flown through. I think the agendas were up, but not the minutes as I remember. And that's when I got lost.

Okay. I'm moving on. I guess we'll talk to Ed Why don't we make, I guess, I didn't realize that conversion did work on 100% of that. I knew there was a little bit of things, but it sounds like they put the same dates on everything that came over on the conversion like that, right? It wasn't like that on the old website. Will they not go back there and fix that, the company? Or can they? Is that something we manually have?

Well, that's a conversation that Ed and I can have with Civic Plus. Okay. I don't think it's anything this board can decide right now.

Why don't we have that discussion with them first and find out what happened and why can they fix some of this stuff, right? I think that's important before we decide.

Has some of it been fixed? I haven't been on it since I first know if stuff was minutes were missing. Is that texture we need to do it?

No.

I don't know that I can give you a definitive answer to that. Okay.

All right. The discussion, let's talk about, you and I can talk about it next, but let's look at it so I can see what she's, because I'm not. All right. The bowl property, we're going to unfinished business, but I'll skip the porch point and ball field first. Other than nothing, right? I mean, The discussion there is he's talking about not doing the boat barn, and that would be where the septic field for the end was then, though.

He stated to us that the boat barn would not be happening as was permitted in the 2017 amendment.

This bit of unfinished business doesn't pertain to the boat barn. This bit of unfinished business pertains to the blight.

Oh, I'm sorry.

And getting that area cleaned up. I personally have had a conversation with Duncan and also mentioned it to Mr. Sternberger. Right. I believe Mr. Sherbrooke has gone out to look at it. You'll note the precipitation we've had. Mr. McCall at the time told me one of the reasons they hadn't addressed the brush pile is that it had been dry out. He made that comment after. We've just had two inches of rainfall. Last two days have been great days to burn a rush pile in the rain. So I think that's what that pertains to, not the- Okay, I'm sorry, Ben, I didn't, okay.

Part of that stuff out there on the bowl field is those pile of bowl lifts, the aluminum ones that look like they're scrap metal, I'm sorry. Those are Mr. DeVos. They're not Mr. Gazan's. They're on Mr. Gazan's property. But Mike informed him that those were his lifts and he wanted to save them for whatever I know. I don't know for what. They're scrap metal. I told Mike to get rid of them too. So anyways, okay. Oil and gas lease.

Yep. So I sent this afternoon an email. to the members. I forwarded the email chain of my conversation and my actions since then on this. I don't believe we have enough information at the moment to do any action on this presented lease. The township attorney advises we would not sign this lease. The way that it has been presented, he also advised that we seek an attorney with expertise in that area. To that end, I reached out to Richard Wilson at Michael Myers because they're of counsel as well. And while they do have attorneys on staff that could handle it, those attorneys are working, they're representing CORE, LLC. I have worked with an individual, Mr. Joe Quant out of Traverse City. He's with Kuhn and Rogers out of Traverse City. And I reached out to him today. He is willing to assist the township with this endeavor, but in transparency indicated in the past, he has represented for LLC, as well as individuals who had transactions. He used a different phrase for it. Yeah, he used a different phrase.

Interactive slide. Opposition interactions. Yes. Opposing viewpoint. Correct.

Correct.

Adverse parties. Adverse parties is a good one.

Yeah. He mentioned in the past he represented parties transactionally adverse.

Transactionally adverse for LLC. That's costing you some money.

He currently has no active cases representing poor, but did want to get an opinion from the board, a consensus opinion, Would we like to secure his services to review this?

Would he give you an estimate about how much it costs? No.

No?

He should be well-versed in what the whole thing says if he worked for them. He probably knows right down to them. Okay. What's the board want to do? Yes?

So I guess my question is, are we seeking... legal approval because we're considering signing it.

I guess that's the first thing you should discuss is the township want to...

So if you, yeah, I mean, I suppose if you want to tie up the property, regardless of what the lease looks like.

Right. Fundamentally, that's the first question you need to ask yourself.

I mean, if we're focusing on the lease... I would think we would only do that if we were saying we were going to execute the lease.

Well, if you sign the first one. It's not a lease. It's an exploration. But it turns into a lease if, in fact, they find pockets of oil, whatever. It automatically turns into a lease for more money. But the exploration part of it is cheaper.

If you scroll all the way down to my original email with Tom, I listed... 10 concerns I have with the lease as written and an additional five things that I think the township should require if we were to pursue this.

I'm not in favor of tying up the township.

It's the very first email. If you scroll all the way down. Sure. Excessive duration and lack of termination rights. I oppose automatic leases. The township should require separate negotiations of any lease. low bonus consideration of $15, extensive post-production cost deductions, no market value or gross proceeds protection, broad pooling and unitization rights, title warranty and risk allocation. The way it's written, you have to reimburse the lessee. There's weak indemnification for the township, nothing mentioned about environmental contamination, no mention of restoration to pre-operation conditions, The lessee has the sole discretion on the operation methods, minimal surface protections. The lessee can assign the lease to another company. No mention of naming the township as an additional insured with regard to liability, pollution, or environmental damage. I also think one of the parcels is not correct. I've kept that with you. Additionally, they mentioned that Helen is still the clerk. Well, they didn't put a lot of attention into this then. My additional thoughts were we need to require a performance bond, mandated compliance with local ordinances, zoning, and environmental regulations, include an attorney's fee provision for enforcement, only consider short-term, require a higher bonus, and a $5 million general liability insurance policy naming the township as an additional insured Those are just my first reasons.

So at this point, she would be a no.

That is correct.

I know that now. Where would Cindy be?

For me, I don't understand why we're doing it.

Okay, then you would be a no.

Well, or else somebody have them come here and explain.

Yeah, that's what I don't understand. What she would do. I just didn't have to do that this month because I thought we should discuss this and figure out if we wanted to even go forward.

The question I don't have an answer to Because the footprint's fairly large of the properties they want to sign up. Can they force cool us?

I mean, if you didn't sign up, could you be put in a unit? Yeah, but there'd be no reason you wouldn't want to be put in a unit. If you're going to pay you a royalty to be in a unit that's on a neighboring property, would you say no?

Previously, I have. Oh, okay. I was on personal property. An oil company threatened to force pull us. And I said, great, I'll see you in Lansing. Because it was a lease written just like this. Unending rights, huge.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, I went to sign. All of that.

Yeah. Well, I can't answer your question. We need to have this other attorney weigh in, obviously. I'm not ready to make a decision with you. Okay. And what is the benefit at some point? If they hit oil, the benefit would be you get your little bit of... Well, I don't know. It depends on what they hit. My taxes would go down? Absolutely. Yeah, right. Wow. It'd go down enough. Yeah. It depends if they hit a good well. Obviously, oil is $80 a barrel now. The benefit is you would be... Yeah, right.

But that could be... The thing I didn't like right off the get-go was the tying up of the property for, I mean, for a long time, 30 years.

Well, to me, there's almost two questions. Do you want to let them perform their seismic tests on the property and then prohibit the automatic conversion?

Which we could do. There's that option, too. We could ask the attorney if that's a viable option.

Anything's a viable option. There is no such thing as a standard contract in law. The contract is whatever the two or multiple parties agree to. Boilerplate, yeah, this is probably boilerplate. That's not standard contract. Do you disagree with that assessment, sir?

I just wanted to ask public information, because in the minutes from the previous meeting where this came up, there was actually a typographical... error, so that the text under this heading actually referred to the Portage Point Am.

Yes, it did.

So I don't know if you can disclose it, but what township properties are we talking about?

No, it's parcels up on Erdman Road on the north end of the township, up on the cemetery, and a piece on 11 Mile. And I think that was it. Why, Jennifer, those two or the three? I can't remember. But it was that acreage, a 40-acre piece, and there's another. Yeah. Oh, that's why I had a call. Okay. I couldn't figure out why someone was calling me saying they're drilling a well at Porch Point. I went, what? Is that why? Did it say Porch Point Inn?

Mm-hmm.

There's like a button paste error.

Oh, okay. I didn't say that. Anyway. Yeah.

Okay. It's up there, Dan. It's a vacant property, apparently. So what they're doing is the seismic... They probably asked to do yours? They did ask to do ours. They asked to do ours.

They've not presented me with an agreement, but... This would be the benefit.

I thought we were going to put the data center up there. No, that's not... Yeah, that's a good idea. Well, that's unfortunate. I'm sorry, Libby, what?

This would be the benefit of posting the minutes within eight days and five days, because I saw that error in the packet and I assumed it was going to be corrected at the meeting when you approve the minutes, but I left the meeting and just tuned in. Had I seen that on the website before this morning at 12.01, we wouldn't have this problem because now you have to correct the minutes.

Okay, thank you.

So again, that's the benefit of using the website to communicate what the Township Board is doing.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Libby. They have been heard and received. Please don't raise your voice at the board.

Okay, Libby, thank you.

Give that stuff to the attorney that you want to... Well, I don't think we have a... We don't really have a decision as to whether or not we want to encumber the township property in the first place.

Okay. Or do we need... At this time, I don't see... I mean, the way that it's written is it is not even slightly in our best interest. So until they decide to get serious and come back with maybe something that is maybe more appealing into the township, then I would say maybe we run it, you know, by the attorney. But as it reads now, no. Okay.

That's just my humble opinion. That's a big no then. Let's move on. I don't need to talk about it anymore. The only thing I would add to the lease is put non-developmental if it ever gets to that. which means you can be in a unit, but they can't develop anything on your property. It has to be, you could be in part of the unit, but maybe they drill over here and you're included, but not making an oil pad, not putting a road in, not putting a pump jack, not doing all those things.

Well, in the way that's written, it's not advantageous. I mean, the advantages don't fully aim there.

Which really answered the question as to whether or not you want to encumber the property. Because I think if I were the field man for the gas and oil company, right, if I just... For a second, thought like how they might think. The township came back and said, we're not going to sign this as is. What else you got? I, as the field man, are going to say, what do you need to see? Right. Do we know?

No. So I asked you, do you want to hire an attorney and answer that question, or do you want to let it just... Because we haven't answered the first question as to whether or not we're open to encumbering the property. Well, yeah, I have. I got three that said no.

Oh, well, then there you go.

Can I ask a dumb question? I mean, how much money can something like this bring in? I mean, it's always trade-offs.

Like $10,000 a year or $100,000? How good a well is it? I have no idea. You're asking a question I couldn't even begin to answer. What would a good well bring in? In terms of, I guess, royalty. So if it was a 300-barrel-a-day well, it would be 80 times 300 times 80 is... Intentions 24,000, right? No $24,000 a day times 30 days is So 70,000, huh? No. Yeah 24,000 times 76 whatever 78 a month Okay, and you would get I think it was written in an eighth which I would never sign for an eighth and sign for 3 16th or a quarter but never night anymore and So it would be an eighth. Let's say it's an eighth of $75,000.

Is that $75,000 after all the post-production costs are subtracted?

Well, that's the problem here. So now they've added that new little sliver in there, which is they charge you post-production costs, which they never did. So this is another way to get all their share, more share of the money out. So then now you add up your portion of the core. Okay, so that's a great well. Now, what if it's a marginal? Well, it does 25. Amplify it enough for me. So like on an annual basis, it works out to like how much? Well, if an eighth of seven, an eighth of, so it's an eighth of 80,000.

Well, I think you're asking a question that you can't completely answer because you don't know what the post-production cost is.

You don't know what the post-production cost is. What are they going to charge you for that? You don't know. That's all spelled out by a dollar value. It just says, oh, post-production cost. They eat up all the money. They eat up all the money.

I mean, you're just humoring me. I have no idea. Is this like $100,000 a year for the township?

I would say it could be $80,000. Yeah, so it's not worth it. But that's if it's a grapevine. That's if it's a super duper. So what happened is when Shell came in, the history briefly is Shell cherry picked all the grape by doing seismic They took the ones that were, oh, that's going to be a good well. And then once they got out, the independents came back in and went around and said, okay, we'll look at more seismic. And a lot of the independents hit wells. And then now you've got two. They've never done any wells farther north than I think the farthest north one from here is Packers. Or the one I know, the one off Christensen Road. And they haven't drilled anything to the north of that. Because the thing runs like this across the state. So that's why they haven't done anything up here. The odds have hit some, slim to none, to me. And the odds of hitting something super duper is slimmer to none. They got a bunch of investors probably to put up money and someone's putting up money to drill. And, you know, government's got deals going to drill, I think now.

Mm-hmm.

So fundamentally, if not, we'll just drop it until next month. We can bring it up and try to figure out. I mean, you can think about it. If, in fact, you don't want them to do it anyways, what's the sense of entertaining it? The odds are, like Dan brings up, that's the highest it could be. What if it's the lowest? What if they hit nothing? And then you get a check for? Eight bucks. Well, I get a check now from the gas thing that I'm in on Millard Road for about $16 a year. Oh.

You're not doing very well.

I think that's $150. They sent me, they did. They actually sent me some. 16 bucks. If it's the accountant, she goes, what is this again? But it used to be good years ago. Don't get me wrong. I think that has to do something with the price of fuel and gas too. We're moving on. Dan, we're going to have to go into closed session. I'm trying to hang around. Do you have Yeah, we are.

I need a motion to go into closed settlement.

Under devolved property. Can you do it regarding the fence and the blight and self-judgment, et cetera, et cetera?

It is to receive information from the township attorney.

To receive information from the township attorney on that sad situation. so i will part thank you you want to leave or we'll leave no i mean do you want i will vacate okay you want to come back in or you're going home thank you okay if something happens i'll let you know what happened thank you sir very much okay so wait a minute pause the recording we're going to pause the recording click more let me is that all right

understand what's happening we need to have a motion someone needs to make a motion it's just a moment i do understand and i'm signing off so you when you come back i don't want you to look for me is i'm trying to communicate so i'm signing off thank you very much thanks bye so i want to press this though so that we can come back yeah i've never done it um i don't think it even

I can't buy it.

Ma'am, did you make the motion? I'll make the motion that we're going to grow a session.

By the way, today's the first day I noticed we had a new door.

Been here for 10 days a week.

Did you know? It's very nice.

Did you know? The other door was great, wasn't it?

Custom built.

It's very nice. All I can tell you is the other door was gray, right?

That is correct.

And then it has a nicer window.

So I have a motion to go into closed session. I have to quote the statute.

I think I had to talk to Libby more than once or twice a month. So we're still recording the meeting.

She's correct. We have to stop that if we're going to go into closed session. But I need a second. I'll second it.

Now, David's not here.

Now, we can start the roll call vote.

Okay, go ahead.

Mr. Meister, I'll vote you.

Okay. Vote me to one.

Mr. Kiefer votes aye. Ms. Wangbechler? Aye. No, it's absolutely.

Oh, I thought you said it on. Like, oh, we're still on. No, we're still on. Yes.

No, I know. Yes. Yes. Mr. Bradford is absent. Motion carries. Okay. So we're still recording the recording. Or shut it off.

I'm just talking about Carozza-Wells.

She's working. No, he's making a phone call.

Mr. Greer.

I know, but I want to make sure.

Hold on, we're shutting off our Zoom meetings. Okay.

Is there anyone else on there? No.

It doesn't matter. We need to stop.

What I'm trying to do is pause this so that we don't, so that we don't have two files. Right.

But this is in the worst case scenario. We have two files. We just have to.

We're trying to show off the Zoom part of the meeting found. Can we unpause everything?

Select pause reporting. This isn't what I'm going to do. It says hit that and look for pause reporting.

This is strange. Yes, that's something because If you just pull the plug.

Well, I was trying to. I know what you're trying to do.

But it's not doing what it says. It's a record button. I wonder if you just hit the record button. It'll stop recording, but you're not ending it.

Well, we can try it. I mean, it's not doing what this says. So, of course.

There.

Pause, record. Well, see.