Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

You are live at this point and you've got five members. So just go.

You all set, James? Yeah. Okay, great.

Okay. Good evening everyone. Uh my name is Denise Savage. from the vice chair of the old lime zoning commission going to call the commission's regular meeting agenda to order meeting to order um at uh 6:34 p.m. So um we're going to start with um is are there any public comments? Um want to make sure that people realize that's not uh if you have if you're here to talk on a public hearing item, you should talk under that item. But if there's any general comments from the commission, we will hear them now. Okay. Hearing none. Hearing none, we'll move forward. Um and um that gets into we're going to do um a short discussion on the phase 2 zoning regulation rewrites. Um there's a couple things we needed to discuss um based on um some of the work we're doing. Following last month's meeting, um we received a a memo that was prepared by a consultant. Um it was sent out to the commission on the 14th and that had to do with um it was from our consultant, Mr. Gomes, and was looking at um the process and recommended um you know, moving forward at the process, what the schedule should be. We reviewed that and had made comments at the last meeting but now everybody should have should have received that um you know that memo. Does anybody have any questions about that per se looking at that? Okay. So the one thing that we have put together is a subcommittee that is looking at the process. We want to make sure it's uh real transparent on that. So, um, the subcommittee did meet and just gonna hand this out to everybody.

So, following that meeting, we kind of Here you go, Eric.

Yeah. And what you have in front of you is um where uh Mr. Gome's memo was kind of like saying what he was going to do for us and how we thought things should do should go forward. This was kind of like um looking at like how do we explain this to the public. So um I volunteered to put this together and we don't have to approve all the language per se. It's really about like do we like the process moving forward and then we're going to talk a little bit um about the um the the scheduling because we that's what we really need to to um nail down. So there's three fact sheets here. One is the overview of the update process just so people understand we finished phase one we're getting into phase two and you know what we're going to be doing. So, um, as we explained at the last meeting, we're going to be using for, you know, to gather information from the public. Um, the website we're going to have a survey that's going to be going out, and we'll talk about that in a minute. Going to be using community workshops. We're going to be using focus groups. And then the plan is um that at the end of that, you know, and we're, you know, the commission will be hearing back and forth from from Mr. Gomes and from Eric um during this whole process in terms of when we get information on from the community groups and from the work that they're doing we'll we'll be saying like well what do you think of this you know in terms of updating a a regulation or whatever but when we finally have um the proposal before us we will have a public hearing that will start with an explanation of everything that is in the new uh regulations that we're proposing um so that we don't have that information separate and people starting to comment on it when it's not part of the public hearing process. So we wanted to do that and kind of mimicking the way um you know the state agencies do that. So for example I'm most familiar with

the department of energy and environmental protection and when they're changing something they kind of have a public hearing that starts with a 30 minute overview of that and then gets into um the the process. Yep. Just one second. It was technical difficulty. Well, no. I admitted someone new had a microphone on it. So, you're getting double microphone.

Yeah. There you go. Okay. So, um just wanted to Does anybody have any questions? That's kind of the general outline. I'd love to get any feedback on this in terms of, you know, making sure it's clear. I know that you guys are just putting your eyes on it now, but we're going to be working with Craig and Eric to get this up on the website and get this information out to folks. So, um, if you see any language changes, um, just send them to me. Um, I will send out I'll have Craig send out to everybody. So, you'll also have a, um, the an email copy, so a digital copy of this, but I wanted a hard copy just to go through it uh, this evening with you and have him do that. Um the second fact sheet is on the community workshops and this is actually the scheduling. So there going to be three uh community workshops. This is going to be to gather information from the general public. Um one is on the well the first one will be on environmental issues and um GOBS is already committed that we could do something the week of May 31st. So we're going to be scheduling that and we'll talk about that in a in a second. housing issues. We're looking at the week of July 26 and commercial issues which also included parking and some other miscellaneous stuff um the week of September 27th. So that that's um what we're going to be looking at with the community workshops. We want to make sure they're well publicized and and how folks can do that. And then um the last Oh, go ahead.

Will so will these workshops also be available online? um you want to do we can make them available online. Um it's going to be a challenge to have people talking from online necessarily, but certainly we're going to try and make this as widely available as possible so we can get a link to it so that people can at least listen in and potentially participate online. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that you're looking and if you look at the description is they're looking to get people into workg groups. So that may be difficult unless we have someone to facilitate work group an online work group but that's something we can we can look at and say if if it makes sense because it's I hybrid meetings are not easy so but we'll

but at least listen

but they but they could you know listen to the to the comments so um it may be a little bit more more difficult but if there's a way to facilitate a work you know a focus group online as well so because this is not you know this is to gather of information. So, it's a matter of however Domes is used to doing that. So, I think it's one of the things we should talk to him about. The focus groups are really um and this is the term we kind of using where it's going to be that's where we're going to be looking at the town agency boards and commissions as well as you know um uh any of our key stakeholders like for example Rivercog Gateway Commission other folks are involved with us possibly some of our partners. So for example with housing it might be Habitat for Humanity. So whoever we we've got some key stakeholders here who may um have that we we need to have focus groups and the intent is to have the focus groups meet after we get input from the public. So we're going to have the focus groups all starting to talk about stuff and then we hear from the public. The idea is let's all hear from the public. Encourage the folks who are on the other boards and commissions to come to the public workshops as well. they can hear and we can distribute that information and then we can say like, "Oh, this came out at the, you know, during the community workshop. This came out. You guys are the experts in this. What do you guys think about it? Your commission really focuses on this. What do you think about this comment that we receive from the public?" So, that's what we're hoping how we're hoping to use the focus groups. We don't anticipate, and correct me if I say anything uh that you disagree with, Michael, but we don't anticipate it being a one and done with the different organiz uh uh you know um commissions. It could be that with one group, yeah, they come in for initial meeting with us, but it could be another group has like something really important that needs to be changed in the regulations and there may be some more give and take from that. But we'll have initially um

the focus groups will um kind of be under these three topic areas, environmental, housing, and then commercial. Um so we'll focus that there. But like I said, it could be, you know, and I'll just we know the flood erosion control board has some stuff they really want to talk to us about. They're under environmental issues, but you know, other groups may need to hear from them as well. So, you know, so we want to know, the inland wetland agency, for example, may want to know what they're saying. It may be the harbor management folks need to hear what they're saying. So, you know, we'll um do that, but but we may have more information from them. So, that's kind of how we laid it out. Um, again, we'll send this to folks if anybody has any very I know you're just seeing it for the first time if but it really is to take the memo that was sent out on April 14th from IMEG um our consultant and make it more digestible for the general public and how we think that this should move forward. And um I want to thank um Mike and Mary Gardner for um you know input and you know we we really discussed this and it was all of the the ideas that we had. So hopefully I I captured those in this and how we wanted to move forward. Um but looking for you know um comments so that we can you know and any if if there are any typos corrections things like that. This is really stated not well but for clarity it's the idea of clarity. So that's what we're really looking at. Two things we need to take care of today is the survey. Um did everybody anybody have a chance to look at the survey online? Yeah. So if you have comments on the survey we do want the survey to go out

fairly quickly because we're going to be have Yeah. So if you have comments send those into you know Eric um and so that we can get that survey out and online. The idea is to get the survey out approximately two weeks and kind of as the kickoff to say we can say hey take the survey and also the first work group on environmental issues is going to happen. So um so that's where we are. So if if you haven't um gotten your information to on the survey we need that soon so that they can wrap that up and then um can I ask question?

Yeah, go ahead. Um, and how will the survey be um, you know, advertised to the population? How will people know that it's there for them to respond to? Yeah. So, there we had talked before. You want to talk about that, Eric? Sure. I mean, first of all, it's going to be on the front web page of the town. Second of all, we're going to try and go out to our social media, you know, things and say it's there. We're also going to talk to various reporters and hopefully get something in Limeline and you know uh CT uh examiner

examiner there we go I lost the word there um London day just those sorts of things um we will have it posted here in town hall as well we're going to try and get it over to the library um just so that again people are aware of its existence um obviously word of mouth is a great way to make it happen. We will try and get it as widely distributed on the sort of online you connections we have and then see where it goes from there. And how and we will let we and we will let all the other boards and commissions as well so that they'll they'll have that as well. And how long will people have to respond to this?

We're going to aim to keep it open about two weeks. Okay. From when we put it out until the day of the meeting here. I'll talk to Francisco Gomez about how long is the right amount of time to have it. You don't want it open too too long. Um, so probably 10 days to two weeks is as much as you probably want to have it open. So just quickly, the survey is not asking for details on what you want changed in terms of very specific language like I want to change this to say, you know, this in the regs, but more the general feel in terms of the types of topics we need to talk about. So the idea is to inform the the you know to help um inform some of the workshops and the focus groups. So that's how we're using the survey. So the survey isn't uh going to be for example taking the written comments. Um the last thing I think we mentioned this um last time also is that um Craig is in the um process of putting up on the website all written communications on this in terms of you know not necessarily when's the workshop not those kind of communications but anything that of substantial like okay I'm commenting on the rags this is what I want to see will get posted on the website and it will be posted that we're looking at a protocol of posting within three business days. The reason we want to make sure is that people we don't want folks saying like, "Well, I sent it. I don't I want to make sure the commission got it

and people will be able to go online and know the commission got it because every that it will be online so that everybody can see that it that you know if if you sent something, you can see that hey, I sent it and it's now posted." The other thing is that everybody can see who's sending comments in and what the comments are. So that will be available to everyone in town in terms of what the comments are. So, and that so you know, so other commissions can look at that. It won't just be internal to the commission in terms of the information that we're receiving. And I think that that's really going to be important because that's one of the things we've kind of, you know, been hearing like, well, if we send them in, how do we we want to make sure the commission gets it and it doesn't just go to staff. It's like it's going to everyone's going to see everything and it's going to be available to everybody. And so, that's I think an important piece of that. Um, and we're going to be asking people when you want to if you want to submit written comments, um, you know, send them to Craig and Craig will post them. That will be the we're going to have his name up so that he can do that. There already is a landing page just on the zoning um, rewrite. So, you can already go there and see that. And then we're gonna, you know, get that so that all the dates and everything and all the processes up there. and hopefully, you know, get the work the fact sheets and whatever up so that people will be saying like, "Okay, this is exactly, you know, if they have a question, this is where we're what we're going to be doing." So, does anybody have any questions process-wise? Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Another one. Um, I think this came out of our last month's meeting. Michael might have been you had asked the commission meeting or you had mentioned that the gateway commission had had a survey. um some good information came out of that and I know the economic development particularly had one was were those surveys taken into the development of this survey or are they going to be

what we did was we sat down with um the chair of the EDC and had her review our survey and sort of come up with ideas to what to include further in it. Uh we also worked with Rachel who is the um clerk to and the staff to EDC and got her input on what's we're doing here. So we are we sort of tied ours to theirs in the sense that we said this is what we're looking to do. Do you have thoughts to how to make it better? But we're we're not looking to sort of dovetail it directly. We we want to sort of go out and do our own thing. We did knowing that they did a successful one recently we wanted to get their input on how to make this a successful survey.

Yeah. So one thing I think is that if you get back to what Mr. Gome sent us, he has a thing uh uh one of the things that he'll be working on that isn't about the community outreach is he will be looking at data gathering and discovery and that will be does it make sense for him to look at you know surveys and whatever to bring all that information. Also that's something we can bring up during um the uh you know focus groups. Do you guys did you guys have a survey or anything that could better inform us that we need to be looking at? So those are the types of questions we can ask. So that's where you bring in that other information. I think it would be you know difficult. This is a a very generalized survey. It's not going to it's not a survey in terms of um you know going to meet that criteria for um a a survey that's like unbiased and all that kind of stuff. it's just it's a a generalized survey kind of to help us. Um so it's not the way that certain surveys are done in terms of you know need to reach a certain number of people and you know that. So um any other questions on the survey? I want to I'm trust I'm watching the time too. That's why I'm talking fast. So let's um um talk about the dates. So, what we're looking at is having um again the environmental issues workshop and you know we're we know it's we've got a lot of people who have to be at at at everywhere and we're not going to get something that everybody can can go to but again uh but we do want to hear from the commission in terms of what date might work work best and I think you have a date two two potential dates.

Yeah. Um, in talking to Michelle Hayes, who schedules rooms, she said that this room is available either Wednesday or Thursday of the first week of June, which would be on that, I believe, the 3rd and 4th. Um, so we can have it one or the other of those two days. And I have not gotten back to her. I heard from her this afternoon and figured I would take a poll of commission members and see if either the third or fourth was prefer. And again, that's Wednesday and Thursday, right? Wednesday and Thursday. Does anybody have a preference on either of those days?

Okay. One in the community on those. Yeah. What I think just check and see if there's any other community things that we do. Yeah. Michelle mentioned there another there are meetings that are were scheduled for here but there's small ones that can be relocated to smaller rooms. So we're already kitting people out either of those two nights but I'll see what else is going on those nights there and see if again I may just ask the commission members who aren't here if they had thoughts as well before I get back to Michelle on this but I'd like to try and pin down the room sooner than

Yeah. And I had tentatively put in 7 to 9. Is it is it 6? Should it be 6 to 8? Did Gomes give a t you know available whenever we does anybody have a better a better handle? Should it be 7 to 9? Should it be 6:00 to 8? Any thoughts on time when how we come from work I guess to be here. So I would guess 6:30 to 7 is probably your better choice. So 7 to 9 is fine. You think? Okay, let's keep it there then. That's kind of what I was thinking. But I wanted to make sure we run that by anybody. One of the things as we're finishing up the fact sheets, Eric, is we really want to be able to have people be able to plan ahead, particularly in the summer. So, I'd really like to get those other dates set.

Okay. So, check it on the other day. I figured obviously the urgency to get this the urgency is on this one. So, we want to get that, but let's see if we can get those other ones set as well. Okay. Okay. I'll make any thing I missed or anything else that we need to talk about right now on this. Oh, the one thing, why don't we distribute that other information you had? You had hard copies of Did you Did you give it to me? I thought I given it I thought you had a separate folder on it. Um, okay.

Um, let me see what I've got. Why don't you I think I think you took back the separate folder, but I could be wrong. You got it. He He made hard copies if everybody has something he wants. It's It's homework. So 25. Yeah. Okay. That that should be on the table there. Hang on. back down your end. I know it exists. You Yeah, you have the whole folder.

Yep. Okay, here we go.

All right. So why don't you just distribute that and then again just so um this is um just an example of the type of um this is what we were emailed.

Yeah. So you were emailed that and he wasn't sure if we were going to discuss it or not but I just wanted to talk just quickly. This is a type of discovery and thoughts that Gomes is working on, you know, u Mr. Gomes is working on. So, um just something that you know to read, think about, put in your folder. Um and you know, we will be having discussions on you know, do we think you know where does this come up? I'm looking at like do we start discussing some of this so that we say like okay this is something we need to focus on on the workshops but if you have thoughts on this um

see this my opinion was that this was outside of the regulation rewrite because it comes from it 25-1 but it but it it it's going to and you need to respond to this quickly. Yeah, you can. So we're not it's not going to wait till the end here and get adopted with everything else but again because we're working with the red rewrite here. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. You're right. This this was a 25-1. So, this is 25-1 and we need to take take action on it soon. Yeah. So, I do know a separate subcommittee that is working on it, but we wanted you to have this because you're going to have an urgency to take some sort of action on it. Which subcommittee is working on this one?

There's a a joint group of zoning, planning, and housing that was formed by the first select woman to come up with ideas as to how to respond. Yeah. for traffic. Well, not traffic per se, but 25-1 generally because it's not just traffic, it's also what to do in your commercial zones, right? With what kind of units are would be allowed there. So, the traffic piece of that is is is part of it as well. The the the urgency has to do probably much more with the the the housing piece of the puzzle as opposed to the traffic piece. How do I get on that committee? Uh, well, you talk to Martha about it. It's Martha's committee. Okay.

Okay. So um so just um Martha had asked chairman Paul um appointed me and Michael to be on the committee um for the zoning commission. Um but um certainly you know that's I think one of the things that we probably should do is make sure that the committee I mean it's all notice but we should probably make sure that all our commission members get notice of those meetings so anybody can attend who wants to. Oh are they during the day? Yeah. Are they online too? Yes they're they're all online like this one. So they're all online. So

they're not and this is and this is something that we Yeah, they're not hybrid but you we do put the audio of the meetings online so you can listen afterwards if you don't afterwards you can't participate. No, it's not. No, but the meeting is the meeting is online so you can listen as it's happening. Can you? Yeah, it's it's on just like this one. You

Well, this one is not publicly we don't put the public link to this in our um in our agenda. So theoretically only commission members are able to attend and participate remotely. So okay I'll check with Martha on that then how she's handling that. Okay, we're doing pretty good because I wanted to stay under a half hour on this because it's a it's a huge topic. But um so the one thing um and this is actually I know Michael and I have had a a big discussion on this um is that the um issue of public act 25-1. How do we make sure we communicate that specifically? Because there's we're in the process of this zoning update and people I think are going to be a little bit confused that we may have to adopt new regulations by July 1st. Well, I shouldn't say we may. We

have to shall

we will because of something that happened at the state legislature. So, one of the things with the zoning rewrite is, and I don't know if there's anything that happened this year at at the legislature that we may have to tackle, but um they uh you know, this is definitely this public act 25-1 that was on housing that was passed last year um is something that we need to act on. So, I think that's one of the things we're going to be looking at communicate, you know, making sure we're communicating is that as we're trying to be as inclusive as possible during our zoning rewrite, there are things that are going to be happening almost simultaneously as we're going through that process because we have to do some changes by July 1st. And then there's als and so and so there's a whole planning process h housing growth plans whatever that are happening um in conjunction and happening at Rivercog. So um so we're going to try to um make sure that we communicate that as well. I didn't take a stab at that yet, but I was actually thinking that would as I was talking about this before I was thinking like that might be fact sheet four. What how does how does how does the zone how does you know the zoning rewrite deal with you know ch you know changes to the legislation that happened during this process which is where we are um you know we started the zoning rewrite and in the middle of it they changed the zoning regulations at the state and here we are so

the timelines overlap and the timelines overlap so it's like the uh the effect of public act 251 is going to continue beyond the end of phase two and out into 28 eight. Yeah. And beyond. So, yeah, it's going to be an ongoing Yeah, we'll be finishing up our rewrite before the housing growth plans are finalized. So, there may be things that come out of that that impact that that will impact the zoning. So, sounds like job security. I don't know about that. But, okay. So, just back. Yeah. Um, some of these decisions have to be made. Is it July 1st? Yes.

Okay. Those are less decisions. Those are the mandates that are just going to have to be and IMAG is actually working with RiverCod and they through RiverCod they're providing service to the towns to come up with actually the draft regulations that will meet the requirements.

So we're not going to do it ourselves. Well, we are going to start with what Gomes is going to provide for us because he he has the regs and you he he knows where he thinks they belong. You are of course free to make whatever changes, amendments, and whatever you to do, but given the time schedule um and given what else we're working on, I I let thought it would be easier for him to take first crack at putting together some language for us that we can then play with. Gomes not not um regional IMAG is Gomes Gomes works for FHI merged egg that's

the confusing Jane is that Rivercog actually hired Gomes to do the public act 25-1 also so we aren't going to use Rivercog for our housing plan are we no two different things well we we we're not sure well we have a timeline We haven't we haven't decided July 27 to opt in or out. Okay, that's a decision to for another day. The the more urgent decision was Rivercog hired IMAG to go town to town and propose changes to the rags to meet the July 1st deadline. Y and since he's already got our rags, he's already recently revision revised them, it made sense for us to use his services for that.

This one is is good. Okay, this one. But whether we use him ultimately for the housing what Ruse River Cod for the housing plan ultimately we we'll decide later that's not we're not deciding that tonight we have to decide it before the 27th I think what I was asking do we have to have a special meeting make those decisions or do you think a year ahead July 2 I think we'll be able to handle it by July okay okay okay so is there so I'm gonna just for planning purposes. If we think we need a good chunk of our June meeting, that should go into effect, our consideration tonight for some things that we

we don't want to have it on the agenda for our June meeting. The challenge is going to be this. You may need a special meeting because at the moment we don't have the language and we don't we're going to need to publish a application for public hearing on this here. We should have a special hearing. Absolutely. Yeah, I think we're going to have to have a special meeting. Me, too. That's Let's Let's plan on having a special meeting in order to do that then. All right. So, um just quickly just looking at that, how long if we have a public hearing, if we adopt the rags, how long do you need to publish them? So, they're in effect for July 1st.

Um well, you theoretically have an appeal period of 15 days. I'm not. Do they actually have to be in effect July 1st? What happens? We don't turn into a pumpkin. No. The challenge codify it the state language. No, that's not what it says. Well, the the challenge is if you don't have rules, then whoever comes in basically gets to play by whatever rules they want to play with. Um, so the goal of adopting the regs is to make sure that no one applies during a period where the statute is in effect, but you know, your regs haven't been put put into effect yet. So, ideally, there's only just two areas where we have to have to do that. Yes.

Yes. Um, but again, and I don't know the likelihood that anybody's going to come in during that time period. So, if there is a couple of days correctly, we can't just throw anything against the wall to see if it's going to work. So again, the the the goal is July 1st, obviously. Um I need a 15-day window to do that. Um it has to be in the paper. So theoretically, it would have to be almost immediately after your next month's meeting anyway. To make all the time, that's why I'm asking. So we couldn't wait till the next week. We would have to do it sometime that week. Have a special meeting. Can we have a special meeting in May?

Um you could have a special meeting in May. Again, you need to give legal notice of that special meeting which involves 10 to 15 days ahead of time to 10 days ahead of time and I have to have the language that we're going to be having in the application which I would have. So the meeting in May could be for us to discuss what the language would be and then you could well but again the meeting in May could be discussed in language but again ultimately if this is going to be an application if this is going to be a change in your regulations it needs a public hearing.

Yes. So, how many special meetings you want to hold? Two, that's great. But we're also holding a bunch of other meetings. So, there's there's a a limit of meeting number, I suspect, of how many meetings we can have. But let's um let me see how long it's going to be before has language for me because that's going to dictate a lot of what we get can do going forward here.

But I I agree with Jane. I mean the idea of us having a meeting at the end of May so that we could all discuss it, agree on the language, we're comfortable with it because then we can put it then because then we can notice and put it forward to public hearing, you know, appro, you know, appropriately. Um, and I think that that's really important because otherwise it's not just about setting a public hearing. It's about making, you know, it's about reviewing the regs and then putting it to public hearing. Okay. Well, then I will ask for when we will have that and then I will see what we can do about having a special meeting at the end of May. Okay.

Um yeah, we have wetlands the 26th. I don't have anything the 27th, 28th. 25th is Memorial Day. So, it would either be the 27th or 28th that you'd be having that meeting if you were going to have that. What did you what did you say? May 27th or 28th. 27th meeting the 26th. Okay. 25th is Memorial Day. You're not going to have it then. Yeah. So that would leave you the last week in May of the 27th or 28th. Okay. Yeah. So let's look at that and see if that makes sense.

Everybody's dance card all filled up. I know. Really? I guess at this moment those days look good for me.

How about you, Mike? No worse than others. Not really. All right, let's see. And let's see if we can get that cuz I think it's I I you know, I have to say I agree with Jane. I was looking at that and how we needed to do that. So, we can pick one. It sounds like everybody at least here. Yep. Which is what days of the week are in? The 27th and 28th. That's Wednesday or Thursday? Thursday. Yeah. I I I do not know room availability. So before you finalize this, I mean, you can say it looks good to both. Yeah. Both these look good. I will need to check on room availability for either of those dates. Yeah, I think that's what everybody's saying. Okay. Yep. Sounds good.

Anything else about process? So, we had two things going on. the process of the big rewrite, but then also the public act 25-1 meeting. Okay, good. Yeah, the long form and the short form. That's right. That's right. So, again, you're going to have a meeting, special meeting on the 27th, 28th. You're going to have another special meeting and 4th. You're going to have a regular meeting on the 8th and another special meeting sometime later the following week. So, you're going to have basically four meetings four weeks in a row. Damn work. Yep. That's what's going to happen. Okay.

We can't you can't get around the public act 25. I mean, that's it's like, you know, and we and we just can't do it all during the regular meetings. Not going to happen. And while there are most of it is pretty prescriptive for July, there's some important options that we're going to have to to for us. Agreed. That's worth discussing. Yep. Okay. Um, we we're set with that discussion.

Okay, we're going to open the public hearing and we're going to start with case 26-3, special permit application, coastal site plan for 77-1 and 77-2 Lime Street. All right, we have two additional um exhibits. One is exhibit J, which is delivered tonight, which is um a response from Marjorie Shansky, a written response to the comments that um our zoning enforcement officer made to them. And we have debate K, which is a new set of plans revised 4726. Did you say delivered tonight? What? Did

you say delivered tonight? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Do you have more than Yeah, I have enough for everyone. Yeah.

Okay. And just for the record, we're going to seat Jim Quattro as the for Paul is not here. So, we'll just seat him as our as commission voting member. Okay. Good evening, Madame Chair, members of the commission. I'm attorney Marjgerie Shansky and I represent Lamb Academy Apartments LLC. The applicant on May 5th. Uh with me this evening is Jim Cassidy, the professional engineer from Halis Pearson and Cassidy. He spoke to you last month and took you through the development and is here to revisit any additional questions you may have and provide information. In the interim, um I on May 5th sent a letter that is uh responsive to uh Mr. Knap's memorandum regarding the criteria of section 11.25 of the regulations and um and so did Mr. Cassidy. He had his own letter. Um both of them were sent in on that day and I have copies for everyone if and to the extent you are not holding them. Uh and the conclusion that was drawn and demonstrated through the plans and in our narratives is that the plans do comply with the requirements of section 11.25 25 um and u with your special permit criteria but specifically the criteria of of section 11.25 and I know that one of the questions may I sit?

Yeah.

Yes. Thank you. I wanted to be eye level with you. Um one of the questions that emerged uh last month I understand is the issue of is this phase two? This is phase two of a development that was approved in in 2011. And um some of the uh documents that I've provided to facilitate or demonstrate that um include um the cover page and the property description from a declaration of condominium that was recorded on the old lime, pardon me, land records um in July of 2012. subsequent to the approval because as you can see both in the property description which consumes three pages um that uh the map to which reference is made is also recorded on the old lime land records. It's map number 3884 and it is specifically labeled the condominium unit allocation plan. I beg you pardon something in the air, I think. Um, and it shows that the area, the aggregate area is 1,1,75248 plus or minus square feet. And it shows at the time the units that were being developed and approved by this body. And over here is are the phase 2 units just shown as I'm going to call them placeholders for the subsequent phase. the phase two that we are here for this. I apologize I don't have a copy for everyone but it is small enough to pass around and I will also submit for the record these pages from the condominium

uh documents that are in the record and

and one additional um recorded map contemporaneous with 3889 or 3884 that I've passed in which is 3875. These are just selective of the plethora of maps that were recorded in connection with the development at that time. And this is the site plan again showing the specific units that were being approved in 2011. And then showing over here just not in shadow but in you know just showing placeholder where the future units would be. Perhaps I'll start this one on this side. Thank you. But they all refer to the aggregate 107 million etc. square feet as being the subject property and indeed on 3884 or 389 it shows the outline of the property description which is the aggregate parcel. So, uh that should dispose of the question for you in terms of the um the phasing and the uh consideration of of this application to be the implementation of what was shown in contemplation in 2011 on the maps that are of record. In in your mind, is there any time limit that ever applies for when something is a phase?

I don't know of any. I mean, we're not coming in here suggesting that we have rights to proceed under whatever those regulations were. We're here under interestingly the regulations that were in effect at the time of the application. So, with respect to is there a time limit? No, I do not believe that there is. Okay. So this map is different than the other map. That map is the same. It's a a larger scale or a smaller scale so that it shows I just wanted to know she needed to record it

half of the um development as opposed to the entire site plan which the unit allocation map shows. So they're they're doing two different things, but they are consistent and they both show the development that was approved and the intention for the future which we're here to um implement through this application. So with that um and though I'm not going anywhere um Mr. Cassidy, thank you.

Is this working? I was speaking up here. Can everybody see the board or do I need to be close? Thank you. Uh I was before you two months ago at which time I presented the application for phase 2 development by the Southwood comments uh on a parcel identified as 77-2 street here, Connecticut. Um at that meeting um there was some issues brought up about compliance with section 11-20 11 2025 the new zoning regulations and you were asked me to go back and ask her to look at the plans and confirm that we actually comply with all the requirements of that section. Um so with that we went back and we as Marjorie mentioned we we studied the old approvals uh we studied the old plans uh to find out you know what what actually approved and then also um went through the regulations to make sure we were complying with the regulations uh and I I'll go through the requirements. I don't want to bore you with six pages of it but I'm going through it. U there's be honestly one thing that changed based upon the review of this regulation. Um but I'm just going to kind of give you an overview of it. So in section 1125 special standards for multif family dwelling um the first criteria that you deal with uh is that you're not allowed to have more than 24 dwelling units in the overall development. The original phase one portion of development was 12 units. Again we're proposing this time is two buildings of four for an additional eight units. Um so that' be a total of 20 units. Um and again we are looking at this as the overall development. I'm going to flip one page. I actually have kind of a copy of the plan that Marry gave you. Uh just so we can kind of understand the area. So,

excuse me. Um when we look at the overall site, the overall property was developed is outlined in red on this. Uh it consisted of about 39.2 2 acres of property when it was initially brought in for approvals. Uh after the approvals or part of the approval as March mentioned, it was actually kind of condominium where there's actually separate condominium units. So uh this give you kind of a breakdown what those units are. The area you see highlighted in yellow uh is a driveway that services property. That's the common development area providing access not to only our two development units but also to the main development unit that's off to the north which is shown in way in this plan. The area in orange uh is called unit number two or area number two. That's the area of phase two of this development that we're looking to develop at this point. The area highlighted in the light blue is phase one. That's the area of the existing uh development uh where they have the 12 units on. There's another area you see highlighted in green. Uh that's an area of open space that was dedicated as part of that overall development. And I'll get into the numbers a little bit later on in my presentation. Uh but there was dedication of the significant amount of open space as part of the overall development originally.

Could I just ask Marjorie something? Is the outline in red was the area on the of the condominium? Correct. Okay. So, and what what is the white then? So the white is the remaining uh there's there's two other areas and they're actually owned by L schools. So they're part of the condo. Yes. Yes. Okay.

Uh and then the other two color ones are owned by county apartments. Um so they're just development. Um so again per section 11251 we're not allowing them to have more than 24 dwelling units for the overall development we're at 20 with the new eight units are putting in. Next section deals as minimum air 1125.2 11 25.2 two states that uh for the first six dwelling units, we need to have a minimum wage of 20,000 square ft per dwelling unit and then for every additional dwelling unit over that we need to have 15,000 square ft of um of land area. Um it also goes on to say um that the land area per unit cannot include slopes greater than 30%. Cannot include webs cannot include improper coverage or purpose paving areas. So we went through the calculation. If I take a look at the overall property area, it's 1,75,248 square ft. The area of wetlands on this property is 4628 48 sorry 462,862. Peruse surfaces uh included in phase one and also included in our phase two portion of development be 65,78. Um and then the the area sorry that's the area of existing purchase coverage area proposing purpose coverage of 27,475 and the area slopes greater than 30% is 59,985 leaving us a net area of 1,89,848 square ft. Dividing by the 20 units total it works out to 54,492 ft per unit. Um so well over uh the 20,000 six and also the 15,000 for the

remaining 14 units. Um the next section of the regulation 1125 deals with um basically what it's saying is you cannot have more than one multif family development unit in one district zone. So um we are uh in multif family residential district. Um Mr. As we stated, this is phase two of the same project. Um, so this is one development south common all within that district. Um, so we need to comply with that requirement. Comment 1125-4 is general step requirements except for roadways covered under section 1125 28.5. structures, parking, service areas within the multi-development project shall be located within 100 ft of a multi dwelling project boundary unless um sorry unless multi dwelling boundary continicuous to another multif family development project in another family multif family district in such the minimum setback may be or shall be 30 ft. The zoning commission may increase the 100 foot setback requirements where additional setback is required to avoid significant adverse impacts to adjacent properties or to or when public safety or health uh where conditions exist uh which affect the subject property and are no and are not generally acceptable uh to other land in the area. A reduction of the 100 foot setback requirement up to 25 ft may be granted by the commission. No reduction shall be granted uh if it is has a significant adverse impact on adjacent properties or on public health and safety. Um as part of the prior approval um that was in January of 2012 condition number 25 uh the way the phase one was originally approved is you buildings are

actually set at 75.

So which buildings are those? So I don't know if you can see the video of the aerial photo. So these are the two existing buildings in phase one. Uh they are located 75 ft up the subly property line. Um and going back through again the conditions of approval and also in a minutes it seemed that uh they held it closer to the subway property line because there was significant amount of wetlands around this and trying to protect it if it was pulled to the south. So as part of that prior approval you did grant a reduction um from 100 ft down to 75 ft structures. Uh we tried to push them as far to the north as we can. Um but when you're coming off a roadway that's already closer than under regulation requires um we ended up being about 882 ft off and we have a similar situation where they're surrounded by wetlands that are being tried to deserve. So everything's kind of brought closer to the subly problem. Um so we believe um you know and if you take a look at the original approval the schematics that were shown those units were also much closer. Um so as part of that prior approval we set up that uh the units be closer to the sub. So we're asking the 8.8 to feed off of the property. Continuing on,

but but you do acknowledge that the commission could Yes, we do not. Yeah, it's not accept. Okay,

um the next setback requirement deals with the location of roadways. Um I'm not going to bore you with all the language, but an overview. What it says is that similar to the last section, uh your roadways are not supposed to be any closer than 75 ft to or sorry, 50 ft to the boundary of the multif family district other than where your road enters off a state highway. But once again, uh that roadway setback uh can be reduced um where there's instances of um could be adverse impacts to other items on on this property. Once again, as part of the prior approval, um your location of the roadway coming in serving this property is only 45 ft off the uh off the um the to the south. We need to continue off that roadway. We're running parallel to that roadway. Uh and immediately pass unit is turning away so we can try to pull as far away, but we're asking to maintain the 45 ft off the subly boundary. So, this is a continuation of this roadway. is 45 ft off that sub.

So, so is that a um it says the setback is proposed for 80.82 ft. Is that that road should be 45? So, is this type is that a typo? Yeah. So, what So, what did you say the road is? 45 ft. Yes. This one he cuz he had 82 80.82 82 for 11.254. So 11.255 should be 45. 1125.5 should be 45. 45. And again, you're asking for that, correct? Yeah.

Is a continuation of what was previously approved. Uh so continuing on setback requirements um for the purposes of maximizing efficiency of setbacks uh specified to section 1128.4 4128.5 the file limit shall be met at least 75 ft of the setback per section 117 sorry per section 1125 I think I got a table there 1125.5 I apologize I messed up on some of the section numbers when I went to go do this I realized you just said updated regulations the month before I grab some old section numbers but uh they 25 um and um 75 ft specified in 11.5 and 35 ft specified in section 115.5 should be left in natural state if wood or landscape division um landscape or visual buffering is not however in order to promote healthy forest management clearing of dead trees dying trees and bases may be promoted um so currently um the vegetative area the preserve is 25 ft that's so we're proposing to continue with that roadway um so the vegetated buffer from the roadway uh of the existing base went into this would be also at 25 again reserve additional buffer

so just quickly um right now it's 25 is there a way to it says um shall be left in its natural state if wooded or landscaped for visual buffer buffering if not wooded. So I'm assuming that extra 10 ft is not wooded. Would you would you um be able to do some landscaping to increase that to the 35 ft?

Put some additional landscaping in that area if we had that additional 10. The next section deal with landscaping is in the event of said that is construction shall be restored and supplemented um with natural screening. We acknowledge that request landscape on the south. Um the commission may require submission of landscape plan which demonstrates the visual impact of protecting on adjacent uh as to as minimized uh standard. What we're trying to do here is protect as much of the existing vegetation as we possibly can. Uh we try to minimize the clearing that is actually required. Um but if there is a recommendation we add some additional landscaping um we could accommodate that also.

So could you provide that plan to Eric after the fact? I'm sorry commissioner. What did you ask? if you could apply the landscape plan if you could supply it to Eric after the fact doesn't have

election section 115 minimum flow areas each dwelling units and multiple dwellings should have a minimum flare area for dwelling purposes of 500 square ft for one bedroom unit plus 120 square ft for additional each additional bedroom uh such area such areas, express streets, school hallways, storage, foyers, closets, porches, bathrooms, and basement for eligibility to be counted. The number of bedrooms in the dwelling unit shall not exceed two. Uh the floor area having floor level above uh the second floor above finish grade should not be used for dwelling purposes and no floor area having floor area below the finished grade should not be used for dwelling except for recreational storage and utility rooms. Um the building plans. So again for this develop we're using the same building that was previously built as part of phase one. Uh we went through the analysis to make a determination as to what we have for the dwelling area. Uh based upon that design uh we're looking at a total of 794 square ft per dwelling unit. Um based upon the requirement for two bedroom unit um need to have a total of 620. So we're going to meet exceed that requirement. Uh I'll let you know that they are living space on the first floor and then there is two bedrooms on the second floor. Um so the first floor living area worked out to about 383.7 ft. Uh and the second floor area for the bedrooms again excluding hallways, bathrooms and storage areas was on 410.7 ft. So we do see the requirement. Um we also acknowledge uh that these units would be two bedrooms always two bedrooms that require your regulation. Section 1125.8 A is occupancy limitations. Um I'm not going to go

through them. We we read that we acknowledge it and that would become part of the lease agreement. Um so any requirement you have for occupancy would be uh as part of the actual lease agreement. So we comply with that requirement. 1125.9 served our storage space. Uh in addition to closet space in the dwelling unit, each dwelling unit should provide with usable enclosed storage space having a minimum floor area equal to 10% of the dwelling. Uh halls, stairs, foyers, closets, uh porches, bathrooms, basements should not be counted in determining the floor area compensation. Um basically if I take a look at the units that are 1400 square feet um what we're proposing is that and this has happened in phase one is there is an attic area consisting at least 140 ft in each one of the units. Uh so we'd be at least 10% of the actual overhaul period 1125-10 service areas service areas and other service facilities shall provided as follows. One or more pave service area for the use of grinding area or temporary storage of garbage and rubbish shall be provided at the rear of the municipal and such area shall be enclosed protected uh by suitable fencing construction. um in your decision letter um back in January of 2012, condition number 26, this requirement was waved and the requirement was waved because if you go to the next section, the trash service is actually held by handled by roll out camps. Um so actually stored inside um but not outside. So there is no dumpster area on the site uh proposed or or will be uh that would need to be screened.

Uh the storage of rubbish barrels shall be in one or more suitable road approved containers having at least 50 gallon 40. Uh this is acknowledged and again each of the units will have a roll out trash can that we pick up curbside on a regular basis just like a residential structure. So there's no dump there's no C uh radio television facilities uh shall be service by master timer only. Uh no external uh individual radio where television antenn uh this whole project is serviced by cable and underground utility services. So there are other kinds post as part of this project. Um the D is the distance between dwelling units uh sorry the distance between each dwelling unit and the nearest driveway parking space and garage servicing such unit shall uh each shall be in 100 ft. Um we have located uh take a look at the overall development. Again, this is the revised layout. These are the two four unit buildings. Uh the only parking area we have is between the two units. Uh consisting of eight parking spaces and new park sections. Um but they're well within 100 foot requirement, the 100 foot requirement. 1125-12, I'm sorry, 1125-11 deals with water supply. Um we do acknowledge that we need to provide a minimum of 450 gallons uh per unit for each dwelling unit. Um this project is going to be served um by a private well. Uh ultimately we need to get approved by the department of public health. Um unfortunately we cannot approve that until we actually have a

zoning permit and we go through the process with them the actual sign off. Uh there's three steps involved. uh sighting uh that we need to actually drill and testing of the well. Uh so we're not going to be doing the drilling and can't prove the yield for such time that we actually have a site plan. Uh but we are committing to a legisl project that we have a yield of 450 gall.

Yeah. Could you I really want to talk about that phasing if we allow for that. Um would you do the well first so that you're not going to do any vegetative clearing any you know um you know earth moving or anything until we know that we've got water if you want to make that condition that's what we have to do cuz I mean it's like doing all that work and then last minute and I've actually seen it happen. It's not a pretty thing when all of a sudden you don't have water after putting the whole, you know, the whole house in a lot of money to start building infrastructure and foundations and

and is there a reason you can't put, you know, figure out the well now? Um, well, I mean, prior to approval, I would think we need to work out where units can go and lay out things comply with their zoning regulation first. And now agreement with location of buildings and roadways. Then we can move to the next step. We can go to DPH. We can first step is to um site the well and get them approved the site location. Uh then after that we can actually go and drill and determine and be able to well. Yeah. Do you think that there's a potential that um you might have to move the location of your buildings depending on where you can get well water?

I don't think I will move location of two buildings within the development unit. I think if anything has to move, it's going to be the well. Um, there was no issues with the wells in phase one. So, we're anticipating no issue with these. I know we had a question on that last time because of the where it is in that upper corner where you were proposing the well. Yeah, it's very similar if you look at the utility. Um, so we're proposing a well up in this southeast corner of the property. Y, it's actually mimics the well that's ing phase one it's the same basically if it comes over the property line is the same amount

uh again if it doesn't work out here some reason DPH doesn't approve it there then we're probably have to talk to the joint property on site yeah I think that the topography it's it's I think the topography on the site is going to dictate that and that's what I'm concerned about because you're you've got very different topography on you know in that corner where you're proposing to do that. Mhm.

So, continuing on with garage spaces, parking lot spaces. Uh section 1125-12, garage parking areas and driveways access roads. Uh parking areas uh can access the problem. A at least one parking space and other shall be provided enclosed garage for each dwelling unit. Uh the floor plans in the building that we provided show a garage that's another so we do have one parking space in a garage for each unit. Uh the in addition to a parking area provide accommodate one automobile for each building unit. uh but not a single parking area containing uh shall contain more than eight parking spaces. So we have eight units. We are proposing eight additional parking spaces. Those parking spaces are in between the two buildings. Um so eight parking spaces one continuous area. Um so we meet that requirement also. Um u sorry oneway driveways for parking area show with a width of not less than 12 ft. two-way driveways shall have a width not less than 24 ft. There are no oneway driveways proposed in the development. It's only a two-way driveway. Uh it is proposed within 24 ft. Uh in addition to I will note that we are providing a turnound at the end of the main roadway. Um this was to accommodate it.

What's that? Did the fire marshall okay that already?

Yeah, the attorney. Yes. Um, again, we just had to work out some final details on the fire tank with it. We wanted a fire tank and it was basically the configuration of suction pipes on the tank. We had to change push a little bit further. Um your next um requirement D uh parking areas uh servicing park I'm sorry parking areas and driving serving parking areas and garages shall have a suitable 2 in sty concrete placed on 2 in 2 in two 4 in layers impacted gravel um as part of the year prior approval. Um this is I had a little question on it. Um you actually required 3 in of paper in two layers. Um so actually a bit more. Um we are looking to do the same. Uh the driveway is pretty good. Um so they continue on with what's out there today. Um so we're asking to be equivalent to what's out there. Eat the tum lip curve similar quality shall be used on all parking areas and driveways where necessary for drainage. Um when you go to the first portion of development uh they use a Cape Cod or multiple saddle curve. Uh we're proposing to continue with the same type curving. So it's a lower profile curving. Uh we're looking to do the same thing in this development. F uh the main access driveway roadway leading to this school development or Walter family development shall be planned and designed in accordance with design and structural standards for town communicate and applicable provisions in the sub regulations line for section 5.58 of the subdivision regulation it

says the maximum length of a dead road is 2,000 ft. Uh when we look at the original development the to the end of the roadway which stops here right now it's about 1,450 ft. Um with this continuation of our roadway into our development we're at a total length of about 1,850 ft. So this is the one in 2000 that's actually required. Um the both design and construction standards have to do with more things than just length. road profile crosssections. So you're going to comply with all of them.

Yes. And that was one of the reasons we want to stay have again road standards will call for cross-section. So we're setting up more like a road. Okay.

Um so the regulation I got on last time was 1125-13. My apologies I did not pick up on this. Uh says a minimum distance uh between multiple family dwelling buildings shall be 60 ft. If you recall in the previous previous plan, two buildings were parallel to each other. Uh but they only had a separation distance in 2014. Uh we reworked out the the footprint, the layout of the overall development. Um we turned the two buildings at angle to each other. So now they are slightly over 60 ft. Um they're at 60.5 ft. So we see that requirement. Uh we also had to shift the location in South. is in a very similar location as was originally proposed but did get shifted slightly. Uh we also had to change the road configuration slightly to accommodate uh the new angles of the building.

So for maintenance purposes and that type of thing, can um can we get vehicles to the backs of the buildings if you need it for maintenance or whatever? Can you get and like for can you get to the back of the buildings? I just want to make sure we can get to the back of the buildings like you Yes. So I mean this we want the back side but um we be able to get equipment light equipment around it from maintaining painting washing the building. Um we'll work out you know walkways and other items as part of the final design. Again we're working with the footprint of the original. Yeah. I just want to make sure that that's you know that we maintain that access to the back of the buildings because a lot of times people forget about that. Um, so the other thing I'll bring up as we talk about the configuration of the building, I think the one item that came up is what are we doing and the MBS? Uh, one of the things I took the opportunity with changing location of the building and I think it was a question about roof leaders. Uh, you'll see on the plans now we have two rain gardens to each corner of the building. So all three roof leaders discharge to a rain garden. Um this one uh has overflows would continue off into the woods and eventually into the wetlands area. This one has a air drain uh at about a foot above the bottom crates. So high level overflows would go into the yard drain uh and then into the drainage system eventually into our storm water management area that's at the phase one portion of the project. Uh so we did try to incorporate something again that was the one interesting thing I found when I got involved in this project is when you take a look at that initial plan that was presented and then they created the condominium lines on it there wasn't I guess it wasn't a lot of consideration for how do you when this condominium mirrors how do you handle storm water management how do you handle utilities such as septic systems so that's what made it kind of challenging if you look at the original plan was 12 units so I actually got cut off four

units to start accommodating subjects to accommodating storm water management areas. Uh it became quite challenging but we may work with it. We have left for a development unit area then 1125-14 space um practice. So, as I I stated um and Marjorie had brought up also um when going through all the conditions of the approval and prior minutes and meetings, it seems when they approved it, uh there was a compensation for open space as part of the project. Um and when we go through the requirements of the open space, um what what it's telling me uh is that we need to basically dedicate 40% of the property um as open space in this zone. Um so we went back through a map excuse me and again uh the open space that was provided which is all highlighted in green on this plan consisted 687,920 square ft uh if I divide it by the underlying area um which was 1,75,000 uh there was actually dedication of 40.3% of the overall property is open In addition to read through the section further, uh what it also says is can't just give you weapons, can't give you flood plane, can't give you sleep. We need to give you some area. Um so we also went through that requirement and again conducted all the wet those areas um which worked out to about within the open space was 378,96 96 ft. uh the sweet steep slopes area over 30% which 695,000 square feet um giving you a net bill area of 308, 374 square ft. So percentage of buildable area within the open space

worked up about 44.8 again the requirement is at least 30% needed to be needed to exceed that requirement. Um and then oh then the final the final provision of 2515 uh is gives multif family for nonprofit um hopefully for housing uh the San is not nonprofitly housing development so the requirement of this section does not apply so hopefully um that goes kind of try to summarize keep time now it's a long thing but hopefully it kind of summarizes This is what we found with the review 1125. The only final thing I'd like to bring up is there was a question brought up last meeting about we are proposing on um we did have our vendor pull together a phototrics plan. Um what we're looking at doing is go to the first development their period style fixture fixture uh style fixture on a 12T pole. Uh we're proposing to do something similar with this development other than the light fixtures would be newer dark sky client full fixtures. Uh the light fixtures are proposed to be located basically along the outside perimeter of the drive. Uh in addition to uh there would be some at this corners of the park lot and then the corners of traffic safe lighting. We try to keep all the lighting to the rear of the development away from Richmond this point and as part of this quoted metric calculation uh what we do is take a look at the lighting levels on the overall property based upon the type of picture. The orange line on this plan represents we're going to take beyond that the lighting level is at zero. Um, so we tried to keep it to pertain it just to

the roadway, just light up the roadway, uh, and not having spray onto the joint property. Uh, I know that one of the property owners, I think Miller's here again this evening, uh, I brought up concerns about the the lighting fixtures. Um, I represented him last month that I would get out there and take a look at it. And this was during as part of phase one to see would be done u to correct any problems. I would still do that. um to see if the shields needed. Um and as part of this project, the one thing I'll point you to point out is if I take a look at the light source in comparison to the property line of Mr. Miller, it's about 1,200 ft away. So it's a pretty significant distance through the woods through another development and back through the woods. Again, um the way you can handle and again I had to take a look at the lands and see, you know, what the potential problem is. And I did go out there at night. I don't want to knock on your door at night, but it did go out there at night. And one of the issues is uh when you have that period style fixture, you tend to have 360 degrees of clear glass around it. Uh it can be corrected uh where you don't see the lighting source by putting a solid panel in on one side. So that prevents light being seen from entering property. Um and I'm am willing to do that still and work with the uh developer and see if we can do correction uh if there is a visual light source. But based upon photometrics for this development that's really looking for what is to spray a light within this development does spray onto adjoining properties at ground level. You know if if you're looking way through the woods you know across the marsh here and somebody has a light I'm probably going to see source. So we're going to see a dot of light um but it's not spraying late property and that's what this plan demonstrates is that the spray light on the ground would not exceed uh zero for campus um beyond that.

So the the lighting that's between the two buildings on that um sort of excess parking area. Is it possible that instead of making them 12 ft tall you could make them 8 ft tall? We we can but what happens is when you go with a shorter light you need to have more to create your safe light level. I think a better option I think one of the big issues is you can see the light of source even if again if if you can see the light source you're better putting a solid panel on the back of it. So are you going to put solid panels on all these

the side face is put a solid panel so you can't see the house the house can't see it. So, have you done all the testing at this point for the for the on-site septic or is that something you're waiting on too?

So, we were we were working through the the logistics of positioning of buildings and again it's very tight sites so we had to make the septics work. Um, so we have put into the health department. We will need to probably do some confirmatory soil testing. I'll let you know that they have test beds all around the entire perimeter of this. It's just within the actual area for a couple test beds, but that's typical during construction. go up and do some additional testing. Um, but we designed for the the worst case of what we found in the overall area. The worst case layout was further closing the wetness down on the far west side here. So, you don't yet have a septic layout plan. Was it full?

Okay. It's part of your plan. Okay. Do all the testing. So, these two areas in green are two individual set systems, one for each building. Okay. But you're still doing the soil testing on them. Yeah. And um I think last time, and forgive me if I'm confusing this with another application, did we ask our engineer to take a look at this? We have not heard back from Jacobson. We sent him the updated plans as well. We still have not heard back.

We have not heard back. Okay. I I was talking to Craig about it at six o'clock and as of six o'clock we still have not heard back. I have my email open that hasn't showed up while the meeting's on here. So I have nothing else to offer you on that one. So do you have anything else presentation wise? Also does that mean the commission members have? I do. Um the lighting that the neighbor has a concern over. Can you point that out on your diagram? So again I had a chance to do it personally. Unfortunately, I didn't get his number last time and I didn't want to just pop in. Where where do you think it's phase one? Yes.

And it wasn't modification, but I apologize. I kind of adhered to this project. So, I don't know the whole history of past here to try to correct. Would there be any possibility that when you was meet with the neighbor and you look at the situation if it's a a lighting fixture that perhaps could be moved is that besides putting the panel in is that something you could do move that lighting? I'd have to work with the with the developer. Um, a lot again, a lot of times if I do a phototrics based upon what I see for the location compared to the property land,

it's going to tell me that I don't have any spray of light on the property. I what I visualize is the issue is that through the woods you can see the light source. Okay. Through the woods maybe the seasonality, right? Correct. And then so and the winter months, yeah, you can see it. So the way to correct that is again have a solid panel on the side that you can see it from. I think it also had to do with the cars because the cars were pulling in and parking with their headlights facing him.

So it was more and they were supposed to have some kind of vegetative um obstruction for that. So that wouldn't happen. And I guess that also didn't succeed in some way. Okay. Well, commissioner will come up. Yeah. Explain that a little bit more. Okay. That's something I have to work on with the applicant. Any other questions from the commission? Um, will you submit a corrected one of these? Yes.

Any other questions? So, we before I open it up for public hearing. All right. Um, so this is now opened up for public comments from the audience. Is there anyone who wants to speak to this 77-1? I have a question for the engineer. Um, Jeffrey. Yeah, come on. Come on up and address the commission and if it's appropriate to ask the question if he can answer it. But yeah. Um, Jeffrey Miller. I'm at 81 Lime Street and budding a property owner. Mhm.

Um my question is I heard a statement uh when um the um um the water supply was being discussed um it was brought up that well what if you don't have water it's a good idea to find out ahead of time and one of the comments was well if we don't have it we can speak to adjacent property owners. So, was that a suggestion that they would tie into our wealth system? Um, and what if that's the only opportunity? Who were the adjacent property owners? I'm one of them. Mhm. Um, so that is what I heard was that it would speak to the property owners.

Yeah. Would you like to address that? Yeah. So, it would not it would not be your property. Uh, again, there's a large portion owned by the school that was part of this development. So, it wouldn't it be it'd be within the same development area. Um, okay. But just a different property owner within the within the development unit owner. I should have clarified unit owner within the development if we had to move it. We're not looking to go we're not looking proper. We're not looking to go on your property for well. Okay. So, and and we're looking, you know, we we're going to definitely discuss that more in terms of that water supply because it's something we need to pay attention to. So, any other Thank you.

You're welcome. Any other questions? Um, it's not really a question, but could we get a copy of the the shaded plan? Sure. Yeah.

Anyone else? Okay. Um, question. Go ahead. Is there any uh discussion about signage on the property? Um, no. There's no signage proposed. Thank you.

Okay. So we um do we want to deliberate now or do we want to close the public hearing and then take go through all the public hearings and we do it both ways. So which way would we want to both close it and then then go back deliberate? Okay. All right. Yep. Okay. So I'll close the public hearing. I'll make a motion close it. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? I public hearing is closed. Thank you.

Are you deliberating now or you deliberating later? Yeah. Do you want to deliberate? Yeah. Later. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. So, um, next public hearing 26, uh, 111C, special permit application, coastal site plan for 18 Old Shore Road.

Anybody all set? We need a little break here. Not yet. All right. We will before this meeting is over, though. We'll keep ours brief since we were here last month. Um, for the record, Joe Ren, professional engineer of Indigo in Old Sabbrook. Uh, with me is Dave David Noey from uh, 360 Design Plus, also in Old Sabbrook. And, um, last month we were here and went through generally the site overview uh, with you. Uh, so I think we'll focus more on uh, the architecture this time. Just one update. Um,

can I just um I think we have some exhibits from cuz there's one that was submitted. Exhibit G, letter from River Gateway 427 um engineer review 430. So those two must have come in certificate of mailing. Sorry,

that's okay. I was just going to about to mention uh Gateway. Uh so we did go to their meeting. Um since um again like I explained last month, this is like on the very farthest fringe of Gateway. It's just inside. If it were on the east side of the road, it would be out of gateway. Um so not visible from the river uh at all whatsoever, but it is in the gateway zone. So we did have to go to them. Uh we have again on highlighted on the plan we show the 50 foot in pink and the 100 foot uh from the title wetlands highlighted in yellow and then we also have inland wetlands here that's highlighted in pink on that west side of the property. Um Gateway did review it. They didn't really they didn't have any comments since everything's fully outside the 100 foot review area other than of course their general conditions for um lighting and non-reflective glass and so forth. uh which is all of course incorporated as we describe to them uh as appropriate. So the lighting on the house will just be minimum for safety and security like we all have on our homes most mostly no spotlight shining out into the wetlands. Um and the reason why we're here of course is because the house's total gross floor area exceeds the 4,000 square ft. So it requires a special permit for us to go to Gateway and to come uh speak to you as well. And could you just show us where the addition is again? So everybody's

uh Well, this one is a brand new house. Uh this is a vacant lot and a brand new house on this one. The other one that I'm doing I'm sorry that's I jumped down. Yep. It's okay. The architect is here for that one as well, but this is a brand new house on a vacant lot. Okay. So with that, um so we don't have to talk about this. Um, so Gateway did say they recommended downward facing, full cut off, dark sky compliant, and limited for safety and security. So you're committing to that? Yes. The non-reflective glass will be used in windows. Yes.

Those are standard conditions for gateway. You usually the non-reflective glass is the glass that's facing the the source or the marsh. Um, so the back side of the house for that. So you're doing the back side, not the whole house then. The whole house will be anti-reflective. Yeah. Non-reflective. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

So that's even better. But typically gateway just asks for um the marsh areas or if the river the river side is on that side because they see the reflection of the river and the marshes in the glass um and they think they can just keep flying through. Uh on the front side they don't have that reflection but in this case it's all non-reflective. Okay. Thank you.

And as Joe had stated, um the dark skylights will be consistent throughout the property. Um yes, so this is a a new constructed house. Um four and a half bedrooms. Um twocar garage. So yeah, it's typical coastal design. We'll kind of go through the aesthetics of it. Um, so you can see, you know, it's an open floor plan. Um, open floor plan, our two-car garages on this side on the west side. And then as we move across, um, standard layout, kitchen, family room, dining room, and living room. Um, and then we're going to have an office on on the far east side. So the water's down down here.

Wow. um island signs down there and in the backyard um of course there what Joe was showing and we are fully out of the wetlands and um the flood zones. So we did take a lot of uh consideration make sure we're out of all those restricted areas. Um the second floor that that's where we house the uh four bedroomedroom two four bedrooms um in the two the two baths. Again, pretty standard issue layout. Um the four bedrooms are here. We have the uh supporting the supporting um program in the center of the house, the laundry, the two bathrooms. Uh, and then we have a roof deck to the east side so the owners can look out over. There's a large open uh, field here down to the water. So, the idea is you can go up to the roof deck and look out. Um, look at the exterior. Um this is the front facade facing um old shore road and then this is the roof deck here and we're using traditional gables um and a shape look across the front of the house. Um again all this is anti-reflective glass um ASAC AAC trim throughout. Um, and then this is, you know, our garage here. And then on the west side, you can see the garage and the gables beyond. And this is the rear of the home. Um, again, same gable aesthetic.

Um, same trim work. That's kind of And that's the side that faces the river. Uh this side faces the river here to the water here. But not the river long. No river wouldn't sight. Yeah, we pulled the we pulled the house pretty far back from the the road. So how far back do we drive? 75 ft I think

from the from the property line itself. It's like uh nearly 60 ft and then even further to the road. Yep. Um I think um our engineer had said something about he'd like to have some information on the plans about um pavers the pavers and the distance between the previous pavers. Did you guys get that?

That was that detail was provided to them but it's a move point because we had all the impervious surfaces go to the two drywalls on the plan. Um but we did um for the patio in so the driveway is paved the sidewalk and the patio are pavers. We did u send them a detail of the purpose. Do we need to accommodate that Eric in some way that shows that our engineer was responded to that question? I I don't if they've responded to it then they responded to it. I think we're okay at that point. If I hear anything further from Jacobson, I'll let you know. But I mean, I think at this point, cuz we don't see we just had the April 30th.

Again, it's a moot point. Even if they were not, we did some detail. They are pvious and we have that uh called out on the plan, but even if it wasn't, there's enough dry well on here to accommodate for all the impervious surfaces more than what D requires. And have we heard back from DEP on this? I have not heard back from D.

D requires us to accommodate 1.3 in of runoff from all the impervious um surfaces on the site. Um and the two drywalls that we have accommodate more than 1.5 in or more than what they require. And where is the well located? The water supply well. water supply wells here with the 75 foot radius around it. Okay. And then the subject system and the subject tank are down here outside of that radius of course.

With the dry wells, do you think that it's a with enough separating distance? What kind of soil type do you have in there that do you have? Uh because a lot of times we have you know very sandy soils very sandy soil high percolation rate but we're more than more than 75 ft away from the well. Yeah. But usually with wells, you know, we ask working with the Natural Resource Conservation Service, we usually used to say, you know, doubling the the setback distance from the well when you have really, you know, excessively well drained soils. Our work rate was not less than 1 minute per inch. So we were not required to double the wall radius by a health.

All right. So you don't think it will travel. You think it's just going to go down. Do you know where you're correct? Go down vertically and travel generally toward the the wetland area. Yeah. And not into the well. And it meets all code separation requirements for wells and subject systems. And was approved by health as well. Does anybody have any other questions? I just Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Do you have anything else you need to share with us? Otherwise, I'll call for the public.

We didn't you said Well, that's all I asked you. I asked you if you got I thought he this morning. Does anybody else have any questions about you know TM application? We talked about pvious. We talked about storm water. We talked about we're higher than the 1.3 in retained on site. So I think we covered all those. We're not in flood zone. We covered all the cam triggers. Okay. I apologize. Any other questions? No, I just concerned we didn't have our delay. No, I'm sorry. It is what it Yeah.

I don't they've expanded that and they can't keep up with it. So we see a lot of these that are not within 100 ft of resources not coming back from the D. If you read their regulation, it generally says uh projects in flood zones within the coastal zone. So I think they're focusing on the ones that are in flood zones and then all the excess ones that they're getting that are like this that are away from everything and not in flood zones are just not they just don't have the capacity to respond. So, and that's that that is one of the reasons that we have to make sure that you you know meet the storm water conditions and the storm water permits because

so that you don't have to go to D for your storm water permit. If we don't issue and say that we're not handling that then you and we don't have a you know a storm water management plan officially it would have to go to DEP for storm water management. Yeah. if there was a certain amount of disturbance on the site, which these smaller residential products are usually under the 1 acre, 1 to 5 acre disturbance. So, um, but that's what I'm saying. They defer under five acres to us. Mhm. But if we don't do it, then it's not deferred to local.

Understood. But we still, whether it goes to DP or not, we still incorporate all their mandates from their manuals into the sight lines. So now you're moving on to 15. Well, going to have I got to ask for the public comment. You seem to have new new picture. Yeah. So like to um is is there any public comment as this is the public hearing on 26-11C um 18 Old Shore Road. Anything from the public? I really can't see the public here. Yep. Come on up and drive. Thank you. Not very plans on file in the town. Yes.

I've not seen them from the resident on button ball road. I'm just curious. Does the driveway exit on button ball? Uh exits on that one. Go back to exit on the exits to the south. So driver comes up here past that triangular. Okay. So right at the bend of of old road coming down button ball go past the triangle you know the triangle island

past that about 80 ft or so and that's what the driver is right in the corner as far west I grabbed your exhibit there. Sorry about that. Got in my pile. Any other comments? I have a quick question. Eric, should do we have a notification for when we're having a public hearing that the neighbors get notified. They're supposed to come back to us for certificates of mailing. So, we I believe in the file. That's what I'm saying. Should we should have that? You should have mail. We sent out all the mailings out and the proof.

They came just wanted to double check on that. So we do have genius since we have there's an exhibit there. The mailings come since we had somebody here. I just wanted to So it was mailed. Let's learn how to read a certificate of mailing. Look at the postmark up on the upper right now. Yeah, but you can't read it. 51. I think I remember that date. 51. Yep, they were sent out on 51. Okay, sounds good. Anyone else comment public hearing?

All right, can I have a motion to close the public hearing? Second.

Any further discussion? All in favor of closing the public hearing say I. I opposed. Any abstensions? Okay, public hearing is closed and we'll take that up after as well. Okay. 26-12 city special permit 15 Smith Neck Road. Ready? Again, for the record, Joe Ren, professional engineer of Indigo in Old Sabbrook, uh this one, uh as you had mentioned, 15 Smith's neck road, uh in Old Line, um the Galante residence. Again, we were here last month. Uh similar to the last one, the mailings went on on the same day on the first certificate of mailing to notify for the special permit. And similar to the last one again, the reason why we're in front of you is a for coastal area management um and also for special permit since we're special exception since we are more than 4,000 square ft within the gateway zone. Um if you recall um uh this from last month uh north is straight up on the page. So you can see the green line highlighted here on the on the west side. Uh Rick St from Point Architects will go through some renderings that were submitted into into your record previously which shows um the house uh has a nice tree background from the river and from the marshes are so extensive in this area from the navigable portions of the river. It looks very very uh very very small and kind of mundane because of the tree background. Uh there's hundreds of feet of meadow in front of this and then

tidal wetlands. Um uh plenty uh distance before you get to the actual navigable portion of the river. Um so the house is here. There is an underground septic system there. And then we have uh the meadow with some sparse trees and some trees along this side. Um last month we did talk about this um very nice mature hedge that comes down and screens the driveway on the right side. Uh Rick will get into that, but those uh plantings are uh going to be replanted since the house is there uh over in that area to cover uh cover that gap. Um again, we went to Gateway for this one as well. Um similar comments about the non-reflective glass. So, uh Rick will talk about that and also the lighting. They're same standard comments. We're not adding any fill or doing any grading to the site. Um on the plan it shows these four pink areas. Um so the largest addition uh is a one-story addition and it's on that northwest corner of the house. These two smaller interior ones are existing covered porches that are just being infilled. Um, and then this uh south southeast corner edition here also is a onef flooror edition with a screen porch and Rick will show you that a little bit closer. Um, we also have two other buildings on the site. There's a garage or I should say three because there's a small shed here too, but a garage and then a carriage house. Um, and uh the carriage house is served by the same septic system uh on that west side of the house. the distance from uh the marsh or the the tidal marsh here. This is the 100 foot buffer line that's highlighted in green. And then this no over here says we still have about another 190 ft um to um

uh to that line. So we're about 290 ft to the tidal wetlands uh and 200 ft or so to the coast jurisdiction line. or hundreds of feet away from any of the critical coastal resources. Plenty of opportunity for uh infiltration on the site uh prior to getting to any critical coastal resource. Um we're way below the um the allowable coverage on the site. Uh we're allowed total ground coverage of 30%, we're only at 3.8 and building structure coverage, we're allowed 10%, we're only about 3.3. So, we're very small fractions of the allowable coverages on the site, including uh all the buildings and the pool and everything else on the site cuz it's a larger uh it's a larger property. Uh so, with that, I know we covered a lot of those spaces last month as well. Um I'll turn it over to Rick so I can show you some of the nice uh color renderings and go through the additions.

Can I just ask for a question before go to the nice colored pictures? Is there anything that was required because of the flood zone that you're in that we should discuss? We're way above the flood zone here. We're not in a flood zone. There's flood zone on the property, but we're way way above the flood zone. This your application FEMA AE1 flood zones. Yeah, cuz it's on the property, but it's the house is not in it. Okay.

So, the property is very large and the low end of the property on the west side of the river is in it. The marshes are in it along the title wetlands, but the house is up at elevation, you just said 8012. The house is up at elevation uh get a better look at that or over 20 um yeah, elevation 20, elevation 22 uh around the house. So, we're 10 ft above that elevation 12. That's the first question I always ask as well, the flood zone issue thing because that's that's the nightmare thing. Hi guys, I'm Rick Stub. I'm with Point One Architects in Oline. Um, I do have an extra couple drawings here which are not part of your package that you have, but I will go through some of the package drawings in a minute. I think one of the questions earlier was what what are the additions and where they are basically on the property. I think that was one of the comments. So, um, this rendering which I hope you all could see. You know what? I actually have um these I can hand you. I have two copies if you want to share them. You can see them a little closer. So this is the view from the southwest. So Joe on your site plan that's basically looking from Sorry, I'm going to point over here. It's okay. um this corner of the property looking right at this corner of the property looking um into the house, the rear of the house from that side. Um that's the southwest corner. So the existing house contains three main blocks just to kind of put you in perspective of where things are. So the three main blocks are these twotory structures. There's one which houses two bedrooms here. There's the one in the middle which is the main kind of living and dining block and then there's another block over here which is mudroom and kitchen zone and then some bedrooms on the second floor. So the four small additions that we're doing one is larger than the others. Uh one addition on the norththeast northwest corner sorry is a the primary

suite uh closet and bathroom edition one-story structure. Um, and Joe mentioned the idea of the hedro that has to get removed in order to kind of uh accommodate that. That hedro has been relocated on the site. They're actually um it's um kind of a process doing that. So, they've actually got start started with some of that information doing that right now. Um kind of thinking about how they're going to get that done. The second edition happens to be underneath the covered porch here. It just extends a portion of the living room underneath that covered porch. And then there's another third addition which is under this portion of the covered porch which is the kitchen addition that's happening here. And then as Joe mentioned the other really addition to the footprint is the screen porch component over here which is again a a one-story building. You can actually see that the roof pitch on here is really shallow. So it's a very um maybe about 12 ft tall from the lowest grade to the highest point there. And then the addition over here has a little steeper p uh steeper grade pitch roof and it gets it about I think 15 feet or something like that over there. So, I'm looking at your drawing there and I'm looking at the aerial photo and I'm looking at this. Could you tell me what that circular

area is there? That's this patio right here. There's a terrace with a low stone wall. All outdoor space. Okay. So, that curve right there. So, that comes out there. Is there any any willingness to plant a tree or a shrub somewhere in that um big green area? Uh well, we got a lot of plantings coming around the foundation wall there and some shrubs there that stick up a little bit as opposed to a few inches. Well, when So, let's when the homeowner bought there, there was no trees there. So, that's the purpose of our review. I understand. Yeah.

Um I can give you an idea of what we're talking about with what we presented to Gateway, uh which talks about trees a little bit. Um I mean, I think it's good that the architecture is all broken up. That makes it a whole lot different than some of the other ones cuz it doesn't just doesn't give that mass look with glass and light all the one story editions help out. It looks looks much better. But I just wondered about just one or two maybe. Can I can I do one? Yeah. From the those renderings from the river. Yeah. But I also want to show there's a really beautiful tree right here. Uhhuh.

So it's not being seen in the any of these renderings here, but there is a really beautiful oak tree out there on the on the on the bluff. So you guys, I think have a copy of what was given to Gateway in your submission, I hope. But if not, I'm going to present this to you and kind of go through it with you if that's okay. We do. So maybe so Gateway doesn't share that with you. Okay. And go ahead. Okay. So um this is what we submitted to Gateway as part of the review. Copies in there.

This is the view from actually the Connecticut River. Uh we took our drone, we flew it out there, that's about 5,000 ft away. So when that Connecticut River starts, that's the view in the house. If you want to kind of see it way down there in the future where the arrow is, that's that's where it is. Um as we fly in closer, we get to about 2500 ft. And there's still we're still over the water. It's not ne technically the Connecticut River at this point. There's some other I think it's called Black River. Back river. Back river. Yeah. So that's 2500 ft away. Still nowhere near the proper uh seeing anything really clearly there yet. And this is where I think you can start to see some of the trees that are here that help us. So this was the thousand foot. We're just starting to get to um marsh land

basically. And if you look there's the tree um see it properly here. This oak tree right here is consistent in front of the home itself. And that existing profile of trees has been there for I don't know how many years but at least uh 20. Um so that's that imagery. And then this actually gives you the better view of that tree from coming up. You see that tree in the foreground? So I can show you guys. And gateway also looks at the background too. So it's has a background frame of trees. It kind of blends in with the natural landscape. So is that with the additions or not with the addition?

So I'm going to get to the next the next piece of this for you. So the next piece shows you the same photograph with where the additions are going relative to the house. So those little white blocks are where the additions are going. The one on your left is the north edition and the one on the right is the screen porch lower piece. And zooming in a little closer, there is the north edition. And then it doesn't really matter so much. This is just the height over here. Uh 19 ft to that roof. portion fills which I don't with that. And then this is the um south edition kind of falling in there

on that side. So can we stop on that picture? Oh, stop right there. Yes. Look at that picture and tell me how that reflects what that circle is on that map. That's that's a new circle. That's a new terrace that's happening. That's what I asked. Yeah, it's a new terrace that's happening. So there's an existing terrace there that's being re reconfigured which is basically over this area. Joe has a line of work that happens there and it's getting reconfigured to accommodate how the addition. So you're putting additions on but then you're also doing the terrace. There's a reconfiguration of the terrace. Correct. And all the numbers that Joe has calculated include all that stuff. Okay.

Yep. I don't I don't have any more to present. Good. I like the drum photos. Any for me? Any questions from the commission? Jean, do we need to have somebody submit as exhibits at this point? Yeah, I need something one of those color things cuz we don't have that. You can have them. Okay. Thanks. And then I have the the renderings too here for you.

The renderings are reading blue, but this same sighting that's currently there. Nothing's changing on the exterior of the house. Okay. As far as material is concerned, question I think you know we often ask for to see it from the water and sometimes we've had applicants that weren't able to provide that. That was very very helpful with us. Um, Eric, do we have anything from DEP on this? It's also a coastal. I'm sorry. Same thing up out of the flood zone from the water. And um, and we do have the gateway reports.

So, is that what is this right here? Oh, there's trees. They're staying there. There's a garden that's currently right here. Um, these two trees on the site plan that you're looking at the tops of those trees. I guess you just can't see it cuz it's in the shadow over there. Well, this is a rendering. So, this is not a photograph. This is a rendering and it's as close as possible. You can see that right there. That's typically rendering that the drone is up above the trees facing down.

You can just barely see the top of this. So yeah, the there are um really no other kind of changes to the to the topography or the um you know vegetation on the property. So any other no questions here? All right, I'm going to open it up for the public then. Are there any comments or from the public on our application? 26-12C at 15 Smith Neck Road.

Okay. Nobody from the public. Um, I'll take a motion to close the public hearing. Motion to close the public hearing. I get a second. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Jim. Jim second. All in uh any further discussion. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Any extensions? Public hearing is closed. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. So, now we get to deliberate. 26-3 special permit 77-17-2 Lime Street. Does anybody want to start? Sure.

I think if depending on how uh we continue, I want to make sure that in our conditions that we sent statements as complies with all planning commission uh regulations and subdivision regulations. Do you think we should wait for Jacobson's report? Yeah, I was going to ask We haven't had Jacobson's report on this one. Okay. But can we talk about what we want in Yeah, but we would be Okay. Do you want Don't you want to wait? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, we can still discuss it. Okay. Figuring that we would continue this one and Yep.

Well, I think um to your point though, there were a few things where we have to make a decision. Mhm. On our rags because we can there were a few setbacks where the regs asked for one thing, but we can wave that. Yeah. So, I think we need to go through that very specifically. um for uh the setback for it, you know, for example, it was either 100 I think last time they waved it to 75 and it's like they've got it at 80 or 80.2 or something like that. So, we need to decide whether we're going to wave that. The pivotal one is the phase phasing, isn't it? We assign that. Yeah. Whether we accept the

one is accepting the phasing, isn't it? Well, I mean the the the threshold issue is is this the same project as the original? If it's not, then really there's a bunch of things that just don't meet the regulations. You can't approve it. So, I think the first thing you probably need to do is re check the box. Is this one project or is this two projects? Um, if it's two projects, then you're not approving. If it's one project, then at that point, you can move forward with whatever the rest of your own deal is. But we can safely say there is no phase three, right? Yeah. I mean, there's this is it. You've seen everything there is to see. Okay. Um

Okay. I I feel like the applicant did a good job of convincing me that it was uh phase one. I wasn't on the zoning commission at that time, so I'll be anxious to hear what you think, Jane. But I do think um it appears to me that it was considered um at the time of the original application. There is no evidence to the contrary that I've seen. I agree. I'm I'm okay. Yeah, I'm good. Okay. So

I agree. Yeah. If you agree that this is one project and everything else sort of falls from here and we can go from from here and again if you want to wait on voting until the next meeting when we have Jacobson's report we can certainly do that but if there's anything you else you you want to stick around tonight this is the time to do it.

Yeah I I I do think we should get his report. Um, you know, it's a we need to be looking at the storm water and all, you know, and any recommendations he has about any of the engineering, especially since they just relocated all the buildings. And, um, I think we need to make sure we get that cuz it's it's going to be important. Um, I will say that, you know, we need to be looking at the the water supply and we need to be really emphatic about no construction will take place until they have, you know, have water because you can't start all this construction and now I'm talking about no nothing, no earth moving, no vegetation removal, no construction activity will take place until we have the wells. because if they can't get water, there's no reason to do this.

And I heard it, it sounded like a real desire to work with the neighbor on the lighting concerns. Yeah, that's going to be a condition. And then well the one condition I was looking at is they have a vegetative buffer that's is existing at 25 ft but it should be at least 35 ft and is there you know some augmentation to through a landscaping plan to increase that buffer which may may help with lighting depending on where it that is. Who knows?

Okay. But we need that. But but I think um the you know requiring the landscaping plan. Okay. Landscaping landscaping plan. They're going to give you a corrected memo. Right. You ask for corrected memo. Yep. Um the water supply would be demonstrated prior to site clearing.

Meet the fire marshall requirements. meet town design and construction standards for their road systems. Complete their soil testing shielding on phase one solid panels and vegetation and on phase two. You can have Okay. It's also on on this when Amy does her minutes of it, she'll be able to pick it up on here. Yeah. Okay. And we have the time to continue this to our June meeting, right? Yeah. Because you just closed public hearing tonight. You have 65 days to make a decision from here.

And I'm I'm personally okay with the 80.82 set back instead of 100. Yeah. Cuz that's uncomfortable. And the 45 foot one. That's me personally. I don't know if how the other people feel. Yeah. No, I felt comfortable with this, you I mean he he messed around with the designs so it trying to comply with as many things as possible. Yeah. I mean I'm really comfortable with the design I think and I think you know we want to have the information from the engineer from a storm water management but that's all just I think can be taken care of. I think the one thing that we can't take care of is the water supply. That's the that's the the tough one. So,

but if we can get water, then we're good. But I think it it needs, you know, like I said, I I've seen too many houses go in where the water is the afterthought and that's not a good place to be. So, um, do I need a motion or should we just or do I just say that we'll continue this till June? Well, let's make a motion to continue decision till June. I'll make it. Okay. Jamie's making the motion to continue to June. Second by Mary Joe. Any further discussion?

Before you move on for the public hearing is closed and the applicant can't talk to you directly, but um the applicant has concerns that Jacobson may bring in additional evidence that they would like the opportunity to respond to. So, they are requesting that you reopen the public hearing to allow them to potentially respond to anything that Jacobson says. It is your discretion as to whether you'd like to do that, but they've related through me that that's something that they have concerns. I'm okay with that. Reopening the public hearing. Yeah. Continuing it instead. Yeah. For the limited purpose of giving them the opportunity to review whatever Jacobson was given. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. We I guess

Okay. Having worked in another town, that was just a given that they would provide that they would provide that that detail to you to respond. Well, I understand. I just the public hearing closed now. So, if Jacobson says something that they feel that they will have to respond to, they can't respond. So, they've asked the opportunity to potentially respond to whatever Jacobson says, would you mind reopening me to allow that to occur? Okay. So, I'm going to modify my motion to um suggest that we reopen the public hearing and continue it to our June meeting for um this particular project. And I will get consent from the applicant to allow that that to occur because you're beyond the time period to to do that. So, we'll need something in writing from them that just concurs that that that happens.

Okay. You second Mary Joe. Any further discussion? Okay. All in favor of the motion say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? Continue the reopen the public hearing. Continue to the June meeting. Thank you. Okay. Okay. I thought I was getting rid of this, but I'm not.

Sorry. But again, I I think just you should put on the record here that the goal of this really is for the limited purpose of Jacobson's letter and response that we're not going to start all over again from scratch next month. So hopefully we'll be a little quicker next month. Thank you very much. Okay. Um, case 26-11C, special permit application and coastal site plan, 18 Old Shore Road. Any questions or concerns from the commission?

Uh, if we're going to approve it, I made a couple of notes. Comply with the gateway conditions in exhibit G letter 42726. Comply with Jacobson's recommendations. Now, Mr. um engineer said that they didn't need the pavers, I guess. So, that comment about pavers in his I think it's more to the point that all of their drainage goes to their drainage systems anyway. So, I don't I think it's he's saying it's moot. It's not that they don't need to comply with it. his his statement is that they already have demonstrated compliance even before they even before Jacobson responded

before they put the paper thing note on there. So I I I would just if you want to make that a condition I think it's perfectly okay to make it a condition but he's saying that they've already met that condition so I'm not sure it changes the the nature of what you're doing one way or the other. And and what what is your feeling Eric about the no not having heard from Cam? you agree that we're really not going to get anything abuse

back when they changed the statute on this DP sort of went to a bunch of seminars and said if it's a single family house and it really doesn't involve shoreline issues there that they view getting back on every single one as more of a option not a requirement. Um so I think in this particular case that they're sort of exercising their option not to respond. Um, and in fact, what they've told us is in some of these cases, don't even feel the need to send it to us because we're not going to respond. Um, we send them everything anyway, but I I think it's it's probably an honest assessment that we're probably not going to be seeing E responses on every single one of these we we send to them at this point.

So, would it be fair to say that there really aren't very many coastal resources on the property in that spot? Yeah, as uh Mr. Ren indicated this is literally the last property in the gateway and it is very far inland on the uh on the coastal resources there. So I I don't have any there's no coastal resources impacted by this application to the best of my knowledge. So that would be something we have to we have to make a finding about CAM. So we just say that there's no impact on coastal resources. Yeah. No significant impact.

And so um but the conditions you were talking about Jane, you were talking about you know complying with condition letter. Yeah. And then and and Jacobson's letter too even though it may be moot. Well, he's saying, yeah, I guess he was saying it was moot from the perspective of they don't have to have impervious pavers, but I think if you're going to put them in, they should work. So that I think Jacob was Jacob was just making, you know, recommendations to make sure they work. Yeah. So So that those would be the only conditions and the finding of no impact on the coastal resources. And you're going to make a motion. Yeah.

And also to find it in compliance with the or no significant impact in terms of the coastal zone. Yes. So, I'll make a motion that we approve it with that condition. And I a second. Second. Second from Mike. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? Motion carries. 5. Okay. Special permit application coastal site plan 15 Smith Neck Road.

Thank you. Yeah. Same thing. Same thing. Comply with gateway. You didn't have anything from We don't. Yeah. This one we, you know, we're not going to have anything from probably just a tiny bit disappointed that they won't put one shrub or something there, but it really is pretty far away. Um, and coastal site plan, same thing. Yeah. You know, no significant impact. Okay. Can I have a motion? So, great. Okay. Mary Joe, second.

Second. Okay, so that's the motion with the comply with gateway and no significant impact on the coastal site plan. Any other comments or I should say we have a motion. Any other comments? All right. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? 5 Z.

Okay. There you go. Okay, moving along. Receipt and setting of public hearings for new cases. Is that the municipal coastal site plan review Miami Beach sewer? Can I make a motion? Sure. For a two minute. Two minute. Oh yeah, sure. Two minute. No, I got to take a two. I'll take a two-minut break. I was actually going to do that after we finish this. Actually, we could take a five minute break. I'm just gonna move this.

No problem. I appreciate while we're waiting. did that. Take it. I told him to move it to the front of the end. cuz I'm too tired to talk about it at the end of the agenda.

Don't you just want to be chairman every time? Oh, yeah. It's true though. Anything this far late, every it's like after something we had a good discussion which wouldn't have been as productive. No, it wouldn't have been any discussion. We would have been like I'm done. I was like, "No, we can't do this. We need to because this is too too important. Oh, Martha keeps asking me about it." Combining the planning and zoning commission. What I tend to find is that the zoning stuff always comes first and the planning stuff's always at 9:30 at night. No one wants to talk about it. It always gets, you know, sort of kicked around. So,

I think it worked great to have them two separate commissions. Well, I did get a political call one way or the other. Yeah. sort of said, look, what I tend to find is on combined commissions, the planning always gets shifted to the back because there's a deadline on the zone. It's got to get done by a certain time. So, the planning, which is more amorphous, always tends to get pushed back, pushed back, pushed back. And 10:00 at night, no one really wants to talk about it. You just need to you just need to do it right. If you just plan for it, it works. I understand, but it takes a a talented chair and a talented staff and everything else to make it work properly. Yeah.

Um, and Farmington where I spent 17 years has a combined planning, zoning, wetlands, whole wetlands I disagree with, but that's just because that's a whole different jurisdictional. But planning and zoning mesh a lot. So, but they don't really cuz I've been on planning and zoning and they're just not really. Oh, are you kidding? It's like everything we're talking about has to do with like it should be in the POC and then it's like there's the planning piece and then there's and the whole subdivision piece. Yeah. I I just I find that it's good to have two separate groups of brains on it.

I I think because there's nothing coordinated. I guess that's my I don't feel it's coordinated. It isn't coordinated. you can have different policy views and and different types of uh I just feel like I don't feel like the planning commission works with the building commission right now very well. But you know what? That's why I'm here because it was that it was that particular point I moved from one commission to the other cuz everybody said that two commissions don't work together very well. That was you were going to be the onus.

No. No. They wanted me on uh zoning because they said that they were stalling and they weren't adopting regulations because m at the time Mr. Smith was the chairman he was really slow. He really was. He deliberated on stuff over a long long period. It took him years and years like five years to do a regulation rewrite or something. I could see this is a no I jump ship. I was asked this is this is a small town on the planning commission. If you could do it in a large community, you can do it in a small community. Almost all the large communities have combined. Yeah. But that's when kind of that's when you get loose touch, I think. Anyway, that's just my personal prejudice.

Having having lived in three different communities in Connecticut, I only know this. I lived in Coventry. I lived and worked in Greenwich and now I'm here. So anyway, um, is everybody back? We're going to start up again after our break. Okay. Um, Miami, he got ready to work. I got Hi. How are you? How are you?

Um, Lyn Ray with Bustin O'Neal, project manager. And this is Walter Dig. Um, he is the project engineer also with Bustin O'Neal. Um, representing Miami Beach Association, the applicant for coastal site plan review. Um just uh letting you know uh we were here um at the April 13th meeting and presented on the project. The project's sanitary sewer installation storm water drainage improvements with an existing um rightway and disturbed area. Um we just as part of a special permit approval um on February 14th, 2002 for the MBA project 2022

22 was um an engineer an engineering review was completed by the town Tom Metcap um for the project. the project has not changed. Um and on uh April 28th um we were informed um by Eric Knap that the zoning commission requested um a review on issues of drainage and erosion. Um and we received comments from Jacobson on uh 54 on May 4th. Um so as of um May 4th uh it's our understanding that there's no additional comments that were received and that the deep statuto review period has ended on the 22nd of April. Um so I guess we're going to kind of just talk about those responses to the comments

um that we received from the engineer. Um I do have some slides but I can't get them to to come up on the chat but um do you want to just some Yeah, just run through them comments. Yeah. Yeah, we can see it.

Yeah, and you can see it on the if everybody can see it here too. So the first comment um as Lynn read through they Jacobson went through a whole paragraph summarizing the history of everything that's happened um talking about how there was some work between below the coastal jurisdiction line and permit was submitted for that. There was also the general permit for discharge of storm water and dewatering waste waters associated with construction activities. That permit has been um received and approved by D as of March 31st of this year. And the first comment they had was ground level groundwater levels shown in the drawings would indicate that most of the work will require temporary lowering of groundwater levels in order to install sanitary sewers, storm drainage, and the replacement of culbert crossings, most likely through the installation of well points or pumping water from the excavation area or coffer dams. Since the discharge of pumped groundwater, particularly from pumps located within excavations, is often discolored with sediment, a description should be provided regarding measures that will be implemented to control the discharge of sediment. Um, so as stated, we have or this project disturbs more than 5 acres

of land. Um therefore the Connecticut general permit for disch discharge of storm water and dewater and waste waters associated with constructions was procured. Um and that permit outlined the best management practices. Additionally, within the project manual that the contractors bid on is that permit as well as a specification outlining the erosion and sediment control measures required and shown on the erosion sediment control plants. Um, we went through a lot of these last month, but I will reiterate quickly. So, there's a frack tank. Um, on the plans it says location varies. That's just because this frack tank is proposed to follow along the contractor's work. So as they're working on Pond Road, it would be located here in Pond Road. As they work their way up Corsino and Biscane and the other fingers as it gets to 156, the frack tank would move along. So that way there's not thousands of feet of hose connecting to that frack tank. Um, also included are silt sacks at all the existing catch basins to capture any mist groundwater um that is pulled out of the excavations. And additionally, there is silt fence. So for instance, from the end of Fifth Avenue, there's Dory Landing which comes off of Portland Avenue in Sound View. Dory Landing is actually part of Miami Beach. of silt fence is proposed through that whole construction easement as well as other silt fence along this is for instance up Biscane Avenue where Swan Brook crosses. We would have silt fence along both sides of that existing covert to protect as well as um silt socks which is just the tube filled with um whether it's

compost or straw also be called the straw waddle. And so just to give an idea of the details again all the way here on the left Oops. too much. Just to give an idea of the details, we would have the silk fence. Um, there's also a dewatering bag proposed. So, if there's a small area that they're doing a lot of construction excavation, they can use dewatering bag. Um, we would have construction entrances installed in anywhere that a road surface wouldn't be provided to keep any dust and dirt down. Um, here would be your filter fabric at a catch basin or the catch basin inlet protection. It would go underneath the grate and catch any sediment as it goes in there. Here's another example of it. Um, similarly, there would be stone check dams. This would be to slow any of the water as it's coming downhill because Route 156 is at the higher elevation. It's all wanting to go down towards Long Island Sound. And then finally, here's an example of the silt socks or the waddles that would be proposed in addition to the silt fence kind of asking like a belt and suspenders approach. If one of them was to get knocked over, you'd still have something there to protect the important wetlands or other open water bodies. Um, so that's comment number one. Comment number two was while it stated that all new catch basins will include 4 foot deep sumps except for provided by shallow bedrock 4ft deep sumps are only considered in the Connecticut storm water quality manual to be a pre-treatment best management devices which are also recommended to have hooded outlets to capture floatables such as oil and trash. Hooded outlets should therefore be provided since deep

sumps catch basins require routine maintenance to remove accumulated sediment and debris. A routine inspection and maintenance schedule should also be provided pre and post construction. We find that comment three was also very similar to comment two. So I'm just going to read that at the same time and address both comments at once. Um given that the physical site constraints proposed by the dense residential development and high groundwater table, it would appear that on-site retention other storm water treatment practices may be difficult to incorporate. However, in retrofit situations such as this, proprietary devices such as hydrodnamic separators could be utilized for treatment and should be considered prior to each storm water discharge point into wetlands and water courses. So to give an idea of these specific outfalls that were mentioned in the comment, um for instance on Pond Road, the existing pipe is on the north side of Pond Road and actually exits out of Miami Beach's jurisdiction. and we're proposing to stop within Miami Beach's jurisdiction and connect into it. And that goes out into Swan Brooks Title Wetlands. The other outfalls don't believe I will be easier to see on the um

Can I ask a question? Depends. Are you saying what side of what? Um, so on the west end of Pond Road towards Hawk Nest Beach Association. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that helps. Yep. Yeah. And then of course in the intersection of Corsino. Okay. Yeah. Sorry.

Yep. No problem. Um, the other spot is over on Could have had all the sheets printed without a lot at the end of Biscane. Biscane does a long loop around and ties into Corsino. Hawk Nest is here. Um, Swan Brook flows along this whole western edge of Miami Beach and then cuts in between Flaggler and Biscane as it goes up north. Um, the existing there's an existing storm water pipe that comes down Biscane here on the end from Corsino. Similarly to Pond Road, we're planning to just replace that pipe and connect in prior to entering the tidal wetlands here. And then the other spot, it is up here on Clifton Street, one of the culverts that's being proposed to be replaced. All the storm drainage from north down Washington and Columbus as well as Flaggler all flows south and then east into the tidal wetlands of Swan as well as everything that's coming down Biscane over here is going in to the tidal wetlands and I can just

So are you saying that you're going to um implement his recommendation at those points? Is that why we're being told where these points are? Um, I'm getting to that. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I just wanted to highlight orienting where I just wanted to highlight everything so that way

because I know there's a lot of plans and documents to flip through with this project. So, I just want to make it clear to everyone. Um, so those are just to highlight to give you a better visual with it. Um, so as part of our application, we had included an engineering report. Um this was attachment 18 I believe as part of it and in that report section 5.41 41 discussed storm water treatment practices. And so as Jacobson had mentioned with the high groundwater um it would be ineffective to perform some infiltration because you already have high ground water you can't really add more water to the ground. Um, the other thing is our proposed improvements are not increasing the storm water runoff because we're not changing any of the pave surfaces.

We're just cleaning it up.

We're just cleaning it up. Um, so therefore, any other underground injections as talked about in comment 3 where they would say to do on-site retention um would be difficult and not really effective. And then thirdly, we looked into a hydrodnamic separator um which is a similar would do a similar thing as a hood to a catch basin. They both filter out the trash and debris. However, our concern was with the tidal wetlands influence as tides come in. those uh hydrodnamic separators would not be effective and work because the backwater would be pushing against it and not allow the actual water to get out and therefore it wouldn't be functioning properly to surface as they're supposed to. And so the other thing is we were saying to use the

So you're saying it's not feasible. Correct.

And then we proposing the 4ft sumps along everywhere. um to alleviate any of the sand buildup. If we were not to have any 4ft sumps as we're so close to the ocean, we've seen in other associations that the sand does get into those catch basins. If we have the 4ft sumps, at least for a temporary period, they can handle that, but yes, they will need maintenance to be sucked out so that way they can continue to function as designed. So from a maintenance perspective, do we make are we where we're putting these? Is there access for maintenance? Because that's one of the challenges. Sometimes they get put in areas where there's not good access for maintenance and as part of your storm water plan from a permitting perspective that you will do maintenance on them.

Correct. So to answer that first part, all of them are going to be located on the pavement surface. Okay. Um, I think one of the questions that was brought up or comment that was made last month was about grade to them and they'll all be to that existing pavement grade or brought up to the pavement grade to help get the water to the actual basins. Um, so from access point, they'll be easily accessed in the roadways.

Okay. And are there any of those basins that then have a pipe discharge that could fill up with sediment or sand so that there's, you know, we're looking at how we clean out not just the sump itself but the system cuz if this if the if the sump fills up but now the water can't get up because the rest, you know, where where the sump is discharging to. So, have you looked at how that's going to work? Um, that was the idea of the 4ft sumps to capture that sediment and then be able to clean that out. Okay. So that way the pipes wouldn't get clogged. Did you do you have a um schedule for that of how often they're they should be doing that?

Um, if that wants to be one of the conditional comments, we can definitely I would think that you would cuz that's what's going to get forgotten. Yeah. Yeah. as part of the there needs to be some and I would look at not just you know month you know monthly or yearly or whatever you it needs to be based on storm events y so that you know okay they should be checked prior to a a major storm event coming in and they should be done after you know major events so that you know so that you know they get inspected at those times. So just make sure you incorporate that piece into it. Yeah, we can definitely do that as part of the highlighter on it.

And and then and then in terms of the things that that the hooded system supposed to do, which is trap oils, trap trash, trash and whatever, are we looking at like, okay, so how are we dealing with that? Um, so for example, are we looking at, you know, putting in the the the floating like, you know, there's different things, but they're floaters that trap the oil. um you know filters. So like they use them they use them in buildage pumps and stuff like that too but you can put those in. Are we looking at something else if we can't use the hooded to take care of this? Um our main concern was obviously the maintenance aspect of it

with the hooded. Um if there's something else that the commission wants to recommend to be looked at, we can evaluate it. But as discussed in the engineering report, we had looked at those hydrodnamic separators, you know, like a vortex system or something. Exactly. And the main concern was with that title influence being pushed back through. It wouldn't be effective. And similarly with the hooded system, if something got stuck in there, a lot of those are actually bolted into the catch basin or bolted into the concrete structure and they're not as easily removable to get in there and maintain.

I'm just looking at, you know, how do we deal with, you know, the oils and whatever and how do we deal with the trash cuz that's something that, you know, is going to be problematic. So, what do they do in East Lang system? Yeah, they just did the whole system there. I should I would have to get back to you on that. I wasn't part of that project. Yeah. I don't know who the engineer is, but the per the folks who helped with that um that you might talk to was Eastern Connecticut Conservation District. Okay.

They really did a lot of work with um Niantic on that. I don't remember who the engineer is. I don't know if it was also can't remember who the engineer was, but Eastern Connecticut conservation district. They did a lot down there. I don't know if they were involved very specifically with what what kind of sumps they were using,

but that's a good idea, Mary Joe, cuz they did a lot there. more. Those were the three comments that those are um I think as one stated we didn't get anything from D that we're aware of unless the commission's aware of anything that D.

So just quickly, so we're saying we couldn't do the hooded, but we didn't propose something additionally to take care of it. the 4 foot sump. We think that we can take care of the the the sand just by having it be four feet and and add the maintenance schedule and add the maintenance schedule and skip the hydrodnamic separator and then in terms of the groundwater discharge from construction with the erosion semicond measures. Yeah. With the fract dewatering bags

and all that's going to be with the responsibility of the contractors and as the engineers on site we'll have to make sure that those implementations are met and followed and if they need to be repaired they'll be directed to repair them as the constructions occurring. Okay. Sounds like they gave us their Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm looking at So, with the So, do we have a copy of the D permit? We should have that on file. D the storm water. Um, we can send that to you. We can send that. Um, we should have that on file

cuz that's going to be the major thing that we make sure that's on file. Yep. You might have given it to us last time. They I don't they don't I don't think they they didn't have Oh, did you have it for last time? Yeah, because it was just a renewal before they changed. Oh, yeah. They changed the new regulations. So, then they reissued like the um So, cuz we renewed it on May March 31st. Yeah. March. Yeah. March. They gave a renewal versus But we can definitely get a copy, too.

Yeah. We should just have that on file because that's where most of us need of this is. Any other questions? Speaker, no comments. I guess I have a question. The maintenance is key obviously, but not being a um having any experience and how often you do that. I think the storm prep and followup makes perfect sense. But how about in between? Well, he's going to he's going to give us his professional opinion. schedule. They got to put a maintenance schedule together. Put it in the document we're going to accept. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Do we feel that when they gets filled up with do we want do we want to see everything before we approve or should we approve and say they need to get back in with us with some of I think we should just approve it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we can definitely provide that as partition. Yeah. So, so get us the maintenance schedule. I think getting us information on if there's anything that could be used instead of the hoods for, you know, the reach the oil. Yeah. Yeah. Check and see where these line and uh see if they have any cuz they they've got in the conservation district. We'll reach out to them and then we can provide you that permit. Yep.

Okay. Any other comments? Nope. Now I get a motion to approve. I will make that motion with all those articulated conditions. Okay. The second second by Mary Cho. Any further discussion? All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? Thank you. Thank you so much.

Mhm. Okay. 115 Hillrest Road, coastal site plan. Do we have a file that 26-13C? I have an easel. You haven't seen this one before. You Well, you might have seen the house. But I mean recently, you weren't here. Yeah.

Okay. Uh good evening, Tim Dearome with DO. Um for uh uh Dominic Nardy at 115 Mil Crest Road. Um we submitted an application. There's a few things that are sort of um u uh logistical matters that I I want to get out in front. Um we're here tonight because uh the go backwards. There's a uh this property is at the the tip of the point of woods uh air neighborhood and there is a uh time period from June 25th to Labor Day where no construction can happen. Um, this property was uh under a notice of violation for some work that had started last spring and has it has sat now unfinished until hopefully very soon. So, what we're trying to do is this is the last lake. We've been working with the DEP because the work was done in the water. Um and uh they have uh the permit for this work is imminent. They uh they're going to issue the permit. Public notice for the D permit expired on Friday uh May 8th and I had correspondence with D uh today telling me that they received no comments and they are they have um sent it off to get signed. So we should have the D permit for the work that is in their jurisdiction their jurisdiction. So just to just to give you some some reference, this this pink line here is that's the mean high water line. The D's jurisdiction is coastal jurisdiction line. It's that

heavier line that's just inland of sorry just inland of that. The work that was performed was in this little area here. Um th this property this is the dwelling here and then these these yellow lines here this is the various flood zones. This is a uh VE14 AE uh V19 and and an exone over here. Right? So um what's important about this is um the the uh I have a couple of I have one photo in particular. I'm sorry. I only have I only have this one um of before that we could find. So, we did not get uh our company did not get involved in this until after a notice of violation was issued and we were asked to help resolve uh the uh the situation. But this is a photo that was uh that was we found that dated in May of 2024. And I just want to pass it around so you can see there's the steps that come down this side of the house over here. Mhm.

They they predate the the work. And the point is is that the u that the owner was what he was doing was modifying what was already there. This is off this is a complete rock ledge.

He was making it a little bit wider. He was making a little bit flatter, safer to walk on. Uh he was redoing the stairs. Everything is chiseled out of the ledge. That's the extent of that work on that on actually on both sides of the house from the from the this front of the house from this front of the house down and the steps into the water. Um all this work is chiseled out of the stone on this side. It's it's also very difficult to navigate on foot. He's this this area here was chiseled out to be a little bit more flat. So as far as drainage or you know uh everything is impervious. There's nothing here. It's a big rock. Right. It's rock.

Okay. So there there's that.

So I I so that's where we are. We we we're here to get approval so that he can complete this part of the work. It's it's left sort of half done right now. The other part is the access from the house. There's this patio here which is also on it's all on rock and it's slope it's sloping down in one direction right now and and to get around from the front entryway down here he started to construct this patio here. This wall is partially constructed as it sits right now. This is a photo of of sort of a view more recent this past winter of how things looked on that particular side. So he's in up here.

Yes, that's up there. That's up there. But again, that's all on rock and he's just putting a stone patio on top of rock. Um, so so so again, what is the violation with DP? The violation was performing activities in their jurisdiction without without a permit. Okay. All right. Potential adverse impact which is um hopefully you know uh the D did not seem to have a problem approving it. There were no comments. There were no questions on that. We filed the application and they proc Oh, they processed it. They processed it.

So what you're approving is some part of the upland. Yeah. cuz this everything you're doing a coastal site plan application so that he can complete the work that was started. So the only thing he wants to do is finish the patio and finish carving out the steps. That's it. Okay. Yeah. So we also this this also has been referred up to D. We're still we haven't heard back from them. Yeah. This is something we I have to say they issued a permit for it, but I think from a coastal zone perspective, it would be the same. It would be really good to hear from him on this.

I agree. Yes. on this particular which is why which is why I'm here tonight because because I wanted to get all of you up to speed on this in case there were any issues, concerns or questions that we wanted to get resolved between now and next month's meeting because if we can do that, we'll have an answer from them by next month. And then if we can if I can walk away with an approval next month, we can still have a 2 to 3 weeks for him to finish this before before the end of June. The patio needs a retaining wall. Yes. Okay. Yeah. You want me to read what it what we're doing?

So it says, "This project is to adhere to Connecticut deep notice of non-compliance blah blah blah. to retain a 10- foot wide by 4 foot deep multi-step landing chiseled out of ledge below the coastal jurisdiction line with a landward access path. So that would be our part. Also construct a stone masonary retaining wall to support a stone patio along the front of the house. Our purpose of this project is to retain a ledge chiseled walkway with steps for safe shorefront access and provide a safe flat area at the top of the bluff for people to catch their breath after sitting.

So the one thing I know at Buena Woods is that um you know people walk on the rocks and it's a public access area. all of rocks. People walk along the whole area of rocks. So, do you feel that anything he's doing or do we know that anything he's doing is going to then restrict people from walking on the rock? No, I don't believe so. No, it he's if he's doing anything, he's making a little bit safer. Well, I mean Well, yeah. But I Well, so someone if All right. So, if someone wants to traverse the rock, they're coming along the shoreline and they're walking along here. They're going to they're going to encounter a flat part right here.

What I'm I'm looking at a retaining wall. Is there any Oh, that retaining wall is way way up way up. It's at elevation. Okay. It's at So, the retaining wall isn't going to create a barrier for people walking. No, it's at elevation 12 cuz we all know the fishermen all are out there and if we if we approve something that's going to limit access, it's not going to be we're going to be in trouble. No, it's not going to limit access. This is way up on the top of the bluff. Okay. Okay. That's what I just want cuz I just know that that's what how people use this particular neighborhood. Right.

So, um so again, I don't expect that you uh to for you guys to make a motion tonight, but I wanted to u make sure that you had all the information in front of you. Um and uh if you have any other questions, I guess that's it. I mean, I suppose if you are inclined to make a motion tonight, I I wouldn't uh wouldn't Yeah. Exactly. What other information would you all be waiting for on deep based on what we're reviewing, which is the

the the stone pathway, which is almost done, right? And then the retaining wall for the P patio, right? like what's going to change between now and or what additional information could we request or do we possibly need? So, make sure I have this right. Are we still waiting for the permit from D or is it We're still waiting for a permit from the D. Okay. They they just So, what happens is they and they still can't and they can't start it. If we give the permit, they still have to wait for D. Yeah. Right. Well, not for No, no, no, no, no. The work that all the work that's in their jurisdiction is done. Oh,

okay. This is an after the fact thing. The stuff that's in your jurisdiction is not done. And do we have any information on the retaining wall? It's a stone masonry. I mean, the retaining walls on the neighboring projects. Are those retaining walls in this picture? Is it going to look like that? Well, there's a photo. This photo here. It's hard to see. Can you see the stone there? I know it's a little hard to see. Yeah, it looks just like it's going to Yes, it's going to look just like this stuff. Well, do we know how high it is going to be? I do.

Top of the wall. Top of the wall is going to be at 18.5. The patio itself is going to be at 17. Okay. the the foot and the bottom of the wall varies at on this side. It's eight grade is at 18 and then it comes down to around 12 down here. Okay. So, it's about six feet in this in this in this low spot over here. Better make it nice and sturdy. Okay. So, a couple of questions and know and that is and then that's and that's part is in the flood zone. Couple questions. So it's in the flood zone.

Yeah. The whole thing is in the flood zone. The whole thing is Yes. Yeah. Well, let me let I'll say this. Let let me let me let me expand on that. It's all in flood zone. This is V19. V19, which right the top of the wave is at elevation 19. This entire thing is underwater during that event. So it's really not doing any kind of flood control. So, it's it's it's going to get flanked on the either side. So, there's it's not as far as I'm concerned, it's not a flood and erosion control structure. Oh, no. I wasn't looking at it being a flood erosion control structure. I was just looking more like to make sure the structure is solid and stays in

place. That that we can be sure of that we we don't want that to come down. So, question when you're constructing, do we need to do any drilling? Do we need to do like you know putting pins in or said drilling? There are or they've already they're already in. Okay. Okay. That stuff is already done, so we're doing it after the fact. Okay. Why didn't he just finish? I mean, how did the deeds come in? And did I think they There was a phone call. Yep. Well, and that's why I'm asking the question because in this neighborhood there's people who are like saying like, "Okay, what's going on here?" Yeah. So, so I It's a conspicuous. Yes. As high visibility.

High visibility. And um I mean God bless him. He he he wants to you know we had a come to Jesus discussion and now he knows that he's got to do what he's got to do and here we are. All right. So um and his his mason is ready to go. Um uh if you're you know I guess I I I guess the one thing the only look what I'm looking at is just making sure there's no restrictions to access by you know putting in I get understand the retaining wall isn't there but let's not put up railings or whatever. We need to be able to make sure people continue to have access on the rocks. If you want to put a condition down on

I say people walking on these rocks are taking their life in. It's slippery. It's dangerous. It really is. Um which is why he's doing what he's doing. But but um aside from that, I mean, if you want to wait until next month. Yeah. There's the remnants of like a diving board off of one of these rocks.

Yes. Yes. Yes, there is. Yeah. That's a that's a a story I heard. I used to rent a cottage about five cottages down. That's why we've been on these rocks. That said, it's very it does get really tight here, but I still want to just make sure I I think from a neighborhood perspective, just making sure that there's no restrictions would be important. Yeah, I I'll just add practical matter of of leveling out some of this stuff is just really for house maintenance. to be able to, you know, pitch a ladder along down there safely. You know,

he wants to be able to Yeah. the rock the rock. So, um, so, you know, that's that's where we are. And, um, you know, it's up to you whether you want to you want to continue with or Okay. So, the the last question I'm going to ask lighting. Is there any lighting? No lighting proposed in any No lighting proposed on the patio or whatever. No. Okay. And no lighting down the steps or anything like that? No. I I would like to get this one out of the way because there's no reason to have it hanging into I might I'd make a wish myself and my computer died. You're afraid?

No, I don't I don't have the reference to make it. I don't have the wording. That's dead. Oh, well, it's just a matter of here. Let me make a motion. You need to learn how to make it. a motion to approve for the close to site plan. Yeah, you're going to Yeah, I still have that. Here we go. We're making a motion to approve the upland portion of that statement. So, which part of which part is just say the statement in his description of of part uh a of his application? You're making a motion for the commission to approve the upland portion of what he's describing there. Which is specifically what though?

It's the stairway and the patio and the retaining wall. So, you don't meant this part. No, cuz that's that's D's jurisdiction. That's what they're made of. But you don't have to recite it. You just have to say that's where um Eric will find it. Eric knows how to find it. Okay. So, I had a motion to approve this this language referenced. This upland portion of that. Yeah. But where are you getting the upland portion? Well, that's our jurisdiction. We don't have jurisdiction. Just say the coastal site plan. It's fine.

Yeah, that's what I was Yeah. Uh, I make a motion to approve the coastal site plan as referenced here. And I would just like to put on two restrictions. One is don't it doesn't limit access and no lighting. And do you want to include railing? Well, the access Yeah. I Well, that was the you know, do not any nothing that limits access the railing. And the D permit. Yeah. So, we can This project is to adhere to Connecticut D notice. Well, you said the permit is in a different hand. I know, but you think we should have the permit. I I agree because it's overlapping jurisdictions. Okay. Got that. Eric got it.

He's got it. I'll second that motion. All right. Sorry. So, any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Thank you very much. Any extensions? Okay. Um, let's see. What time is it? We got 9:33 and we've got just a couple things left. Formal discussion regarding potential development at 244 Shore Road.

Can I can I make a motion or can I have a discipline discussion? We we have the number B informal discussion about Mail. She was here last month and I know Mr. Marada was not. Could we move her up? She's here. She was here last month to move her up in the discussion just out of courtesy. Is that possible? It's up to you guys agenda. There are few Make a motion that we move the 8B up above 8. Please second. Second. All right. Any discussion? All in favor say I I

opposed extensions. Okay, we're going to take up nighting gales first. Sorry guys. Thank you. Oops. Oops.

Hi. Thank you. Um I sent this to Eric. Um hope everybody got it. I just wanted to make sure you did it. We're just here to clarify what we are doing at night and gales into um we've always we're a music organization. We um have light cafe service with our music programs. Preandemic we really tapered off during the day. We were closed for almost two years and now we're sort of getting back going again and want to continue our music programming during the day and want to um our the cafe has always been accessory to the music and um we want to continue that. We're going to be having workshops during the day in the mornings and into the night. So, we're just here to clarify and um just make sure we're all on the same page with it. And I think there it is.

I think I've worded it correctly. I'm not sure how to Excuse me. You know, I I think one of the things that jumped out me this time instead of last month was that you said you're working with Laurel Laurel Kitchen, a licensed kitchen. Would it really matter who the name of the the vendor is? No, for our purposes that she's working with. No, I mean I just That's the difference though. She was not having a a vendor before. She did have a

Oh, no. I did always have a vendor. I always had somebody working with me. um just because I run two magazines and I can't be there. Um but she knows what she's doing. She's just a licensed she has a license cafe. She's going to be providing light service. Um nothing will be cooked there. Um it'll all be brought in. Um but it is, you know, I want to make sure you understand it. It is a um coffee service and light.

Yeah. My issue last month wasn't whether this is a vendor or not a vendor. The issue was whether the restaurant service had the primary use and the music accessory use. And and working with Gail here, she is now trying to clarify that the music remains the primary with the service as accessory. And if that's the case and you agree that that's the case, then I can let her go forward with what she wants to do. But I think we need a determination from the commission that they you agree as described that this is consistent with the already approved use. So there be no food service unless there's music happening. Is that basically the idea?

Well, the the the primary use will be music. I'm not sure she's promising you that there's not going to be food without music, but I think she's promising you that the the p the predominant use will remain musical. How do you enforce that, Mr. Eric? I guess if people are telling me that there's food and not music, I word will get back to me pretty quickly. Music back in. I'm not going to be going there every morning for breakfast.

But I suspect if if I start hearing from people that there's 40 cars there for brunch service and people are getting food brought to them and there's no music, people are going to hear. But obviously it's a very easy to find location. Um, so we've always been a very sleepy little place. Yeah. So, if this turns out to be the hottest new restaurant in town, I'm going to hear about it pretty quickly, I expect. It's hard to hide when you're two doors. And we're only at level two. Um, the the license for us through Ledge Light is a level two cafe. So,

and I think that's where you're going to get tripped up. If it turns out they start making food there because the demand for food is so high, that's probably and we would stop that too because we don't want to go beyond, you know, we don't want to be a fullervice restaurant by any means. We're really about the music. But the demand is there just to be providing the kids with something after school, snacks or um an early morning breakfast, you know. That's the problem when you say that as opposed to what it says here. Yeah, that's if you could stop saying that. Well, sound actually as good as that does sound

frequently. The the the primary use, I can guarantee you is music. Again, that's going to have to extend even to the morning and noon portions of what you're doing. Your primary use has to be music. So, that's what Yeah, that's the commitment I need. No saying that you're providing that for Okay. So, so Eric, I I I understand why you that clarification, but is there something that's changing? I mean, her activity is there. Yeah.

So, why why is she here? What what what did you notice that changed that triggered this? as as originally brought to me, it sounded much more like we were having at least for the breakfast and lunch piece food and maybe music and yeah, basically they were changing what the original approval was. This is an R15 zone, so it is not zoned for high commercial uses like restaurant type uses. not zoning.

So the previous approval as permitted by the zoning commission was we'll let you have this music service here and if you happen to get food with the music great but again music as a primary purpose here was allowed by the zoning commission. So what I've tried to work with Gail to do is reconfigure what she is proposing to emphasize the music piece of it. so that you guys can say we agree this is consistent with the previous approval granted and that's really when she came last month I I wasn't sure we were there yet. So I worked with her at your request over the intervening month to try and rework the language so that we were more on the music side and less on the food side. Um and as part of all that I pointed out to her that her registration had left secretary of state and she's now put that back in order as well.

Yes. Um, so yeah, we're we're trying to get her in the right direction. So you're looking for like an affirmation. No, I mean all I'm saying determination going to say what she has said anymore. Yeah, she's not I think what we're going to rely on is this piece of paper that she has submitted to us as the basis for what is going to be going forward. This will be Major Feast putting the file and if she is inconsistent with this representation, I will have to take some sort of action to bring her back into consistency with this. Is everybody okay with that? We have nothing to vote on or nothing to No, no, we're supporting. No, I just want to make sure that we can make a community and I want to make

Is there a consensus that we agree that this is um basically a a music foundation and that's there and that that's supported by the food but the primary use is music. Is there a consensus? Yeah. All right, we're good. Okay. Thank you. I'll do my thing. Thank you. We don't want to see you again. Thank you. Come visit. Okay. Thank you for your patience. 24 22 24 Shore Road. Piece of cake. Ours is ours is real simple. So,

okay. My name is Sean Tesco. I'm the general superintendent for Geneveseci Construction. And I'm Doug Whan. I'm the chairman of the Old County Beach Club Association who has contracted Genevi to do our sewer project. Okay.

We're going to be doing this sewer project for uh Mr. Wheeling, excuse me, in association with some of the other sewer projects that are going on. Alls we we're here for is um Frank Marada has a piece of real estate we want to use for layown yard just to store equipment, pipe, supplies, that type of stuff. Um, I don't even think we really even need a permit, but Mrs. Genevese is pretty proactive with the community. She wants to just come down ahead of you and let you know what we're up to. Just um, so you know what our intentions are. Excuse me. Our little schematic is simple. We're going to put a tracking pad in, standard sill fence. Our proposal is to put a protective fence around with a green scrim or a green covering just so it's less of an impact to the neighborhood that this actually a lay down yard for construction site.

I'm I'm just a little lost where we are. This is Franklin self storage facility that got approved but never built out at 224 shore. is sort of down the street from the recently approved 50 Shore Road self storage site. Um it's sort of behind there's a house in the front and then an area behind that was going to be used for four buildings that were for self storage but again it never got built and again the reason I asked them to come in front of you is that again their approved use for the site is self storage right this is not self storage

is an accessory to self storage um and this is in my view more of sort of an industrial type use and not allowed in the C30 zone. Um, it is theoretically a temporary use, but again, part of why I wanted them to come to you is I didn't think I could easily ignore the fact that it didn't sort of comply with the permit and was potentially not consistent with the regs. Um, so I wanted to sort of get the commission's temperature for whether this is something that we're allowing on a temporary basis or whether I should basically say this is not not approved use of the zone. So that's that's why we're here

and and I just wanted to let you know Doug Whan, chairman of the Old County Beach Club Association, as you as you know, we're under a D consent order to put the sewers in. So the D consent order is a state directive. Municipality zoning cannot be used to obstruct compliance, you know, with our statemandated environmental remediation. Connecticut courts apply the balancing test and D consent orders for water quality almost always wins the balance. The state interest in Long Island Sound nitrogen reduction is at the top of hierarchy. As you all know, it's very limited. Our our area areas down there when we have this sewer project, we have no place to store all their equipment. There's no place to put it. We have like maybe four different spots and we have three different companies that are going to be doing this sewer project. We have Genevi, Baltazar, and another company coming in to do this. So, the clean water fund financing flows from Connecticut General Statute Chapter 446K. Connecticut water fund projects are reviewed and approved by DEEP and OPM, which we did get approval. In fact, we're working with DEP and OPM right now to get all the funding in place. should have it in the next couple weeks. A municipal zoning officer cannot use section 3.2.2 to nullify a project the state has financed and ordered. So, I just, you know, want to make sure that we're all on the same page here. Uh, Connecticut General Statute 8-24, which we did come in front of you for an 824 referral, uh, governs municipal improvements. Old Lime's own regulations classify sewer facilities as government services. Sir, we've never said anything about not approving your sewer.

It's approving of this particular use, but this is part of the sewer project. It was never previously shown to this commission or any other body in town as this location being approved for this. So what we're just asking for is just we've we've provided there's very limited res I mean this is the only spots that we can put this stuff in and all we're asking for is to allow this to to go on and this is a temporary uh numerous provisions are being made to protect the area during the temporary conditions and it will be restored back to its original condition. So what's the expected timeline? Uh 753 days is the maximum. So

you know we're at 753 days. I mean it's it's a it's a sewer project that's um has a 753 day they're they're regular actually the contract states they have to be completed within 753 days. So So is this the property line? Where's the property line on on the property? Hold your question. So in my defense the gentleman that drew this up is in Florida. His grandmother just had a baby and my boss just had a baby. So, I was as daughter just did. So, um I'm not sure how much of this portion of his property is, but we're just going to occupy I believe he's got where the fence is laid out. It's just where the pink line is.

That's a silk fence. Y right along with the silk fence that will be wrapped with our protective fence and has a gate through the front where the tracking pad is. Can Can you get the site cleaned up cuz it sure doesn't look very nice from up above. Will it look better than what it is when we're done? 100%. That's what you're asking. 753 days. So, yeah. So, so just a couple of questions on the um ent entrance pad. You might need to do some grading, but is there any other expected grading on the site? I think I think it's just scrub. It's a basically a flat flat site. So, there's no earth. You don't have to remove vegetation. You don't need to do any any of that.

Um when you're talking about storing um uh you know, obviously, you know, pipe or construction materials, equipment and and equipment. So, um, do they have a, you know, so one of the things with equipment is sometimes they leak oils and whatever. So, are there we do the stand we do the standard things. We got a spill kit with each machine and all all that type of stuff. Okay. So, if I think it would be good if we had that. So, um, you know, to come in with, you know, when you come in with an application, just give us that. So what's what's your best operating you know your best management plan? That's almost I don't I didn't think Eric we actually had to do an application. Well this is I guess what I'm asking

he's already said no. So if you're coming and saying no he didn't I don't think Lee in my mind he said no. I think he said he he wants everybody to be on the same page. Well what I said is I I don't think that under rules of my rags that this fits in the zone. But again, what I'm asking the commission is this is nice a way he's he could possibly say no. Do you want me to enforce against this or do you want me to just say it's temporary and let it go? And that's really I want to know what we can get in trade because it looks like this place is not I mean are these old vehicles out in the back? Is that what that's that stuff is?

You know what? We don't know. But we can I mean that that would definitely get cleared up because they're going to be using that whole spot. This is the idea is that if you're if you can tell us how the town benefits from um having this temporary use that really isn't in conformance with the with the zone and that this is temporary and it's only for you as it's a old colony beach to put your sewer in. But um and this has been a problematic site too. Let's be honest. A previous zoning commission gave them gave Mr. Marada the opportunity to build something he never built. Mhm.

When you say temporary, I don't know if it's going to be temporary. Well, that's where stuff there if we're going to me that's a different concern. I don't I'm not sure I can put them through the special permit process for a use something not allowed and so on. So, I'm not sure what I would tell them that the use is. That said, I mean, if you want to essentially work out some sort of essentially informal contract with them saying we agree to forego enforcement in exchange for which you will do the following. Um, I think that that's a legitimate place to Yeah,

I I I'm okay with that. Yeah, ultimately, you know, contract zoning something else. can't do contracts though. What we have here is a situation where if they are agreeing to do certain activities to bring the site up to greater make it look nicer or get the dunk cars or whatever else out of there in exchange for our not enforcing and letting them do this temporary basis. I I'm willing to go along with that. But that requires again coming up with sort of a list of what you think you guys want to make this happen. So if take a step back I agree it sounds a lot more like a light industrial use than than

residential or commercial. So and and part of that the reason for for that is to separate out uses that have uh safety impacts. So can we just explore is there going to be truck traffic coming in out of there? Is there pedestrian access that need to be needs to be controlled? There's no pedestrian access there. It'll just it'll just be you know there's a driveway. It'll be a regular driveway. Yep. Yeah. And he's and you're also going to have signs that say truck traffic. Yeah. He's also indicated that, you know, either either end of the access and egress, he's going to have a truck entering sign. You know, we'll put some, you know, standard signs up. We're just trying to expedite his project, you know, because of limited limited access.

Right. So again, just looking at the at the safety implications for just what do you estimate that the the truck traffic is going to look like? Is it going to be frequent access? is going to be all day project is going on. Are there going to be trucks rolling storage? No, I think there's there probably going to be some, you know, steady steady access going on. I don't want to, you know, it's a construction site. They want us out of there. We want to get done. We're not going to be killing it, but there's going there's going to be, you know, repetitive activity there. Deliveries, pardon me, deliveries of pipe will be received there.

Uh, we're going to try to get as much on the job, but you'll get some you'll get some deliveries there. you know, probably some gravel and stone, you know, clean product in there. So, not as much equipment storage as I think the equipment should be really on the job. That'd be more, you know, for pipe and that type of product. What about the mobile construction homes or a a trailer? Yeah, trailer. I we didn't even think about that. We have a conics that we use for our mobile office, but we weren't looking for temporary electricity or that type of type of setup for that. The house is occupied. No, the business is empty. the building their house. Is that the one? I don't think this is it's not where they're doing this setup area. They're off. There's no They're not near the house. We're on the side of

They're just in the open lot. That's So this is I I understand that this is residential. It's a different use, but I'm looking at can we wave the zoning in restrictions, make a decision, you know, um for temporary use. But this is more like a ZBA type thing. Yeah.

I know. Well, that's what Well, that's and that's why I'm asking because I think I think us this is what I feel. It's like it's very hard to just look the other way and say like, oh, if you guys do all this, we won't enforce zoning because then we get a complaint from a neighbor and now where are we? So, I don't like that. So, I'm looking at is there a way and whether it be ZBA or us, is there a way to say, "Oh, we're going to, you know, you're not going to give me the history." So, no, ZBA can't give them a history. Okay?

So, they're not going to ZBA. All I will say is zoning enforcement is a discretionary tool.

Okay? I don't have to necessarily enforce against every activity either. we can't endorse that. So the question is if I am not going to enforce why am I not enforcing and if the answer is because we are getting one it's temporary we've been told it's temporary 753 days whatever the number is two the site will be restored to a better place than it was when we started again I'm not saying I agree that that's the right answer I'm just saying that if you are looking to allow this to proceed that is a way to allow it to proceed. As your enforcement agent, I can tell you this is not something that I would allow to go on under normal circumstances. This is why we're here tonight.

On the other side, is this old colony right here? No. Um, so this is not even the same beach. It's a No, it's across the street from Shore Road, right? Yeah. Where's Old County at? old county would be um actually that spot is uh Miami Beach. So So how soon are you looking to Yeah, I wouldn't want to do this unless you got the people from Miami Beach to say okay. Well, this all there he is. He's right there. He's saying okay. Well, I mean the people it's all it's all part of the sewer project. I represent the people, too.

Yeah, cuz they were pretty upset about various other things that were taking place across the road. How far from old colony is this? I don't know which which which is where. Sorry, but one, two, like two blocks or like 30 blocks? No, no, no. Like three blocks over. Three blocks over. They're all within a short of each other. All the associated What's the time frame? Not how long. When is it? When are you when are you looking to start? We're waiting to get notice to proceed. It should be we got the notice to proceed. So

shortly. So uh we're actually May 18th. We're going to be having a uh meeting with deep that's going to be where the deep says go ahead and start the project. So we're thinking uh probably the June 1st or the middle of June is more reasonable that this is going to start. Will this entire site be fenced or portions of it or whatever area we're going to occupy is going to be is going to be fenced. Yeah. And that's why we wanted to put this scrim up. It kind of closes it off to look look as you know it doesn't look like a construction site. It's, you know, you'll see you'll see it here the activity, but it's not going to be unsightly to the area at least with the fence up there.

I mean, how much weight do we give making this allowance based on the fact that this is for the benefit of our own town? Like I mean, in general, trucks trucks are going up and down the road to get to that site. Here we are. We can't stop it. you know, question. Since you brought that up, so the same trucks that are going up and down roads, are you saying they're going to also go up through Miami? The same ones that No, no, not all of them. There's a lot Old County. Shore Road to Old County. Yeah, just Old Oak. So Miami when they do their projects going to need a set down, too. They're going to have a separate area where um

I'm not sure where it is right now, but I believe it's going to be temporary spot. It's going to be right next door. That's That's a problem. Yeah. All right. So, we need to be right next door. It's not anymore allowed. There's an empty lot next door. I know, but those are not allowed uses either. Well, according to 8-2, um, you know, municipal zoning, uh, cannot say that it's not zoned for that if it's a con municipal improvement. So, and this is, but that's not what it is. It's not the it's the improvement is happening in your areas. These sites are not being improved. This is part of the project. It wasn't part of the project. That's the problem. Nobody ever said that this was going to happen. So, now you're coming in and asking for

they need a lay down area for the project. I understand. So, I guess my question to the zoning board is what do we do for a lay down area? They did have another area. We did have another area. Well, we had no no other areas. That's not a question. Just a point of reference. The current lay down area that's like a little bit down from this where the that big augur is laying on the ground. What What is that being used for? Like it's like I forget if it's What is that East? Yeah, that's 250 Shore Road where we lost a lawsuit for self storage. Correct. So, what's being stored there? or I know it's not originally they and again they have a violation on that site too

for water there was a water pipes the condition water was putting in piping here and so they were using that as as their storage area and I gave them a violation notice okay yeah this is all relevant okay and so I have emails out you know right now to Calvin and um let me pull up the email since I've got my computer open here. Um cuz inconsistency can be problematic. Yeah. Here is what I told um we're looking to get out ahead of it and not not cause a problem. That's why we're trying to be proactive.

On May 6th, um I wrote Chris Calvinise saying, "I am out on medical leave. The first black woman is emailing a photo showing work on the site. Can you please update me on where things are? I am pursuing Frank Lauder for using his site for the sewer project without obtaining permits. If you are planning on using your site for that purpose, I'm going to have to treat you the same way. If this is in preparation for the self storage units, I would appreciate it if you would build file a building permit application to allow our department the opportunity to make sure this site conforms to configuration and erosion control requirements of the final approval. Um so that was sent to Chris Galvanise on the 6th. Um

but that activity that's happening there is unrelated to any building that's going on. It's being used. the previous work and storage that was there was in connection with the water improvements that were being done by Connecticut Water Company and they were given violation notices for that storage unit storage there because that work was inconsistent with the approval for that site. So they already are on notice at 250 Shore Road that they cannot use that site for a layown area. Okay. So they did not come to us and seek approval, seek temporary permission. They're under violation notice for that work. Okay.

Is there any way the three beach associations can get together and and work out one lay down that is that those two those two spots those two spots are the layown areas for the all all the contractors. I need the commission along with Genevi is the first one to come in front of you to try and get ahead of the program. But yeah, that's But you had just told me minimum Doug that that these these trucks are just going to go to the M the old his trucks ours. There's five there's five contracts going on down there. So both ours the other Okay. So those were they're going to do Miami. So

Okay. So the three companies are going to be laying down in Mr. Morata's spot and Mr. Kelly Southite. That's the plan. That's the plan. That's the only spot that we have in the beach community to have the layown areas. There's nothing else in that area. And there's nothing nearby either.

Wow. Wow. Yeah. So is it possible that you with the selectman's office could work out some kind of arrangement so that we aren't the ones that have to do this because you understand the precedence and that when you do it fair um that uh because we're really not trying to hurt your approvals. We were we're we've approved that, right? But this issue just didn't come up. And of course, you know, when you look at this particular property and say we like to do it there. It would require us to then approve it in the future

repeatedly for a temporary for a temporary use. Temporary use. All we're asking for is temporary use. It's a temporary quasi municipal use is what I'm thinking that it can be. You guys are supposedly we are municipalities by chance. Yeah. I'd still like it to be um unless unless the the usage isn't contingent on the fact that we leave it in a better condition. Whatever we do, we can't do that because we can't say that to everybody. I thought that's what you asking earlier. This is discussion. You know, this is discussion. Our commission, we have regulations and we're supposed to adhere to them. It sounds I mean, we know what you want, but it isn't in our regulations. It is not in our regulations. It's not in the approvals

and and it wasn't part of the approvals. um we know what you want. We don't necessarily disapprove of what you want. So, I'm wondering if if con in connection with the town government of all of the town that you could work out some kind of a deal where it could come to us as a temporary um uh non- enforcement for Eric um but not be an approval by this commission at all so that we're not breaking any of our precedences at all, but just a deal that you make. And you know, to me, what we want Eric to do is see if we can get the site cleaned up cuz you it'd be in a perfect time to get it done.

And that would be the benefit to the town as a whole that it got done. So, let me think about this. So, we've approved the sewer. Yeah. We just changed our approval to do something different. Yeah. On Miami. Can we amend the pro the sewer approval to say these are temporary construction areas you could because that would get we don't have anything in our zoning regulations. Well, that gets into the municipal improvement piece that he's talking about

change their application I guess right section 3.1C 5.1 5.2 government services public utility facilities and 6.16.2 to trailers construction storage office available by zoning permit in every district. So I don't you know that's what I'm looking at. Can we look at that? I guess the only problem with that is as they an amendment to their special permit require application public hearing notice whatever that's putting you 3 months out and they don't have three months. That that's really at this point they they this came to us moments before they're about to get started. Why is it going to be 3 months?

Because I don't have an application. Yeah. So they have to do an application. So they you will receive it at your June meeting. You will hold public hearing in July. I publish notice after the July meeting that puts them at essentially beginning of August to get the work done. Okay. So we couldn't hold a public meeting in June. A public hearing in June. If I don't have an application, I don't know. I'm saying we get an application.

I I mean you haven't I mean traditionally you receive it instead of public hearing. You applications are received at the first regularly scheduled meeting following it coming into the office. The next regularly scheduled meeting is not until then. If you want to at your special meeting should choose to receive it at your special meeting. I guess you can do that. um if it's on the agenda to be received.

I'm trying to look at how we facilitate this and and then how we do it legally because basically saying, "Okay, we just don't want to hear about it because this is what I'm looking at. We have a neighbor that all of a sudden makes a complaint and then they're coming to us saying, "Why are you allowing this under zoning?" So I'm looking at the legal thing is to amend if you know looking and I I mean I'd like to look at that statute but it seems like the best thing is to these are all the statutes.

I was going to say would it help if we got an opinion from our from our council that that the state statute applies and and we need to do it. I think so. And I als let's look at that and then I don't see why we associations. You guys got the apartment trucks in there somewhere. And just setting a public hearing is no big deal. We can we've got multiple meetings coming up. We can definitely set a public hearing. We can put we can add that one thing to the agenda to set a public hearing. We had an opinion that that the the state statute was dominant in this. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what else to do, but I I would prefer doing

I have all the state statutes listed there. You can look them up. And it says zoning doesn't, you know, allow that doesn't allow zoning to override state uh mandates. Well, then why aren't you here? I mean had Eric because all he was trying to do is he was trying to work trying to work with

and again what I would argue is what Jane has argued the we're not interfering with the use that D has mandated which is putting in the sewers. No one up until a week ago came or two whatever two weeks ago talked to me about the layowns. There was nothing in any of this for 2 years leading up to this that talked about that. We understand that and therefore

but that's where if they came back to us with amending so this is where this what would apply if they came back to us with an amendment to the permit we gave them and we didn't do it and this is the only place they could put the then by not allowing the temporary construction site we would be in violation if we can get our council to confirm that I I will talk to Matt about yes how that work. I'm I'm I would be satisfied if we can get that our council to confirm. Then we're all off the hook someone above our pay grade because it gets brought up by the next person

and that's the reason we're here is we don't we don't want to go in there and then have neighbors complaining and start off on a wrong foot. Again, that would require all three associations presumably to come in for both locations with an amendment to the sewer approval process to say that we need to include this in um so yeah, we'd like to we'd like to get the attorney's opinion too and we're going to get our attorney to look at it too and review it. Let's do that first. you get mad at us an opinion if if we could do that by them reapplying and saying this is our lay down areas that it is temporary you know no more than a two years

753 days yep and there's no way to supersede the whole reapplication process with just his opinion correct no because again we have an approval for this project the approval doesn't cover these two lots. So, if you want to include these two lots in the approval, I I think you got to go back and and reopen that approval. I don't really see I think that's I think it's the best way to do it. Okay. Cuz rather otherwise I I I don't know. I I think it just puts you in a real bind just saying like No, I I agree. I mean that that that's why there's I'm trying to protect I think that's not a good place. My question is how's it temporary use? Sony temporary use.

Neighbors have temporary uses. Temporary uses all uses only temporary temporary temporary okay my regulations talk about temporary is 90 days or less you are 753 days which is some factor of 90 that I get too tired to calculate but it's not two years does not qualify as temporary under my zoning regulations so that's why we need to go back and figure out if we can so if we're all agreed that we'll proceed this way cuz I would it's past our deadline. Um and uh this

so you understand plan I will try and reach Matt tomorrow and figure out the best way to move forward. All right. Thanks. Okay. and then to you. And what I will then do is if you guys need to get an application in for these sites, I will let you know and then you need you need to get it to me as quickly as possible so that I can get it in front of my commission and get the ball rolling because there are publication deadlines and help both ends of the perspective and I think we need to have the application reflect all the companies, right? Not just your company. Yeah. 53 days or whatever needs to apply law.

I mean, honestly, the the the parties that I need to see are the two property owners and the three associations. The builder piece of it can come and talk about it, but the applicant needs to be the associations and the owner needs to be the two owners. And that's that's how how the application needs to read. these guys, God bless them, they're doing wonderful work, but they're not the actual applicant here because the applicant needs to be the associations.

But Eric, if uh Mr. Calvinise says no because he plans to build his project in in within those million days and so that is not a lay down site. Do you have enough room at the Marada site to run the whole project out of see I suspect My understanding is we let's let's just so we can get through the rest of our agenda. So, thanks everyone. Um, Rivercloud rep, do you have anything you have to tell us tonight? No. Okay,

we'll save that for the special. Okay. Approval of minutes. Um, approval of the April 15 minutes. Can I have a motion to approve? Second. All right. Any discussion? Any changes? Hearing none. All in favor minutes? I I abstensions. All right, folks. Thank you. I didn't expect that last one. I wasn't. That was the most interesting of all