Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

We're on. Okay. All right. We will begin.

All right. Good evening everyone. Um, welcome to the January 2026 meeting of the OAM zoning commission. Uh this evening we have at the table we have our permanent members Mary Joe Noel, Denise Savage Joe, Michael Foliano, uh myself Paul Orzel, alternate member Michael Barnes. Also with us, our land use coordinator Eric Knap and this evening we also have our town zoning attorney attorney Matt Willis at the table. absent this evening to date is um Mary Gardner Copala is is out ill. We're also missing permanent member Jane Marsh. So in the interim, sometimes she runs a little bit late. In the interim, I will appoint Michael Peter Barnes to stay in that position for the evening or until such time she appears. Okay. That appears to be it. All right. First order of order of business on the table here this evening is is there anyone in the audience that has any comments to make or public comments to make on any item on the agenda? And if you do, you'll be first. And if you do, um, you please come to the table, state your name, your address, and limit your time to 3 minutes. Okay, sir. Howard Marguly, six Lady Slipper Lane. Uh, I know you have a very full agenda, so I'll try to be very quick. Um, I'm on the one of the planning commissioners and I realize that you're going through

the process of revising zoning rags and we have a role in that and uh, in my mind it would be great if we can find some way to coordinate our efforts. Uh we know that you have uh Eric at our last meeting indicated that you have pretty tight schedule of what you're planning to do with your zoning straights, but uh the planning commissioner a number of commissioners are interested in looking at the POC and reviewing that. Uh typically it's been done every 10 years. It was done uh 2021, but u you can review it before that. In fact, the law actually says you should be obligated to reviewing it. We think this is the perfect time to do that given the new affordable housing law and what you guys are doing. So, it would seem if you were starting over on this project, the best thing probably would have been done is to have us review the POCD before you do your zoning rights so that in case we change the POC, you don't have to go back. So I just want to lay out that and see and let you think about the best ways how we can coordinate to get this process done uh quickly and efficiently as possible. The second thing I just wanted to mention is uh as you know we knew we have the new affordable housing law coming down the pike. Uh the rivercog is going to be the focus of um working on those municipal uh how the municipalities will implement it. I and the planning commission rep the representative to the rivercog planning uh committee and uh that committee has been turning out a lot of good information and interpretation of the new law. So, I don't know if you

guys are tied into that, but if uh as you go down the road, you may need to make changes to zoning to incorporate the new law. Be happy to if you have questions to Riverco, you can ask me and uh I can pass them on and I'm very willing to share all the information that they've given us up to date and going forward if you need that. Okay, good. Thank you, Howard. service. No public not public. Just listen. Okay sir.

Hello. Good evening. Thank you um Mr. the chairman and commission for all your hard work and and uh thank you Eric. My name is Alex Richardson. I live 41 Smith Neck Road and I'm going to talk really quickly about our point of view on 43 Smith Neck which I think is on your agenda. So, thank you for the brief three minutes. My wife and I are direct neighbors. We're adjoining. We have deep roots and really care about Old Lime and appreciate your hard work. My my wife grew up in Duck River Lane. My mother-in-law worked on the uh school board, Bun Carter, and our families protected the open space for many years through donations to the land trust. And we really care tonight about transparency and process. So, one year ago, we were in this room and and the Miriam's application for a large new dwelling was unanimously denied by this commission with over 75 to 100 citizens from attendance and virtual attendance. But instead of filing a revision for their plans, like hundreds of other old lime citizens, including me, they took a very expensive litigation approach with their new hometown, and I'm really sorry about that. We understand that the Marians have revised their plans um and we appreciate their modifications. However, no one outside the legal settlement and perhaps your team know what these revisions are. Um but be our ask before this vote is we respectfully ask this committee and would appreciate it if we could see what what what's being proposed. We would hope that it would be shared publicly so the neighbors and citizens in this room many of which are here tonight can take a look at it. No judge would deny a disclosure of a revision of plans. We'd love to get the Connecticut River Gateway Commission to evaluate the plans to see if it meets their standards and we'd love to have um the team to take

more than one week to a month to verify that that that it complies with all your old lime zoning regulations, specifically 4102.1 and 410.12.1.f. So, we're asking the commission for transfer transparency, not obstruction. just show us the plans just like every other old line property owner does in this room. Um, now the Smith Boat la boat boat launch isn't just a place. It's where generations of old lime families have launched their boats, watched sunsets, gone hunting, made memories, and just last summer, a young couple got engaged there at the sunset right on the bird area. It was really an amazing look. So, it's where we connect with the Connecticut River and with each other. So, thank you for your time. I really do appreciate and I'm grateful to your work.

Thank you. Yes.

Greetings. I'm Peter McKillip. I'm also from Smith Neck Road. I'm not going to repeat all the things that Alex has just said, but I want to just also, you know, re reiterate my concern about the fact that there should be a proper, you know, public review of this of the changes or the proposed revisions. And just to remind everybody, this isn't just any location. It's a location that thousands of, you know, Connecticut citizens and global citizens will have when they when they come up the the back river onto one of the great estuaries of the world. So, I hope that the uh zoning commission uh gives everyone the the time uh to review these revisions so that we can all have public comment. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, folks. My name is Tor Caillou and I live at 11 Ker Avenue and I had a chance to read uh Alex Richardson's uh note to the editor and I thought he made some extraordinarily compelling points. Uh it seems to me that the process that we're engaged right now is is not transparent. It's not open to the public and it's not clear to me why we're subverting a process that's worked so well for the organization for the old line for O line for the citizens over the years. I'm also very concerned about the precedent that this is setting uh because it seems to me like somebody could litigate and as a consequence of the litigation process could somehow subvert the normal zoning process and that's not a precedent. It seems to me that serves the town well and so hopefully that uh we can have an open process and a transparent process so that everyone can can provide their input and the commission uh can make the ultimate decision.

Thank you. to the spell again. Your name, please. Uh, T H O R. And your last name? Ko. K A Y E U M.

Anyone else care to make a comment on any item on the agenda?

New York. I love Attorney William McCoy. I um previously appeared before this commission on the presentation of this matter approximately a year ago. Um for the record, the Mr. Richardson and Ms. Carter, who are the owners of the budding land on the northerway side of this property, moved for intervention in the case, which was um not rolled upon by the judge while the process of the parties trying to settle the matter was accomplished. In that sense, my clients have been mocked out of the process of what's going on. um while this is online and I and I say that only to give you historical perspective on where we are. Um we have not seen the proposed revision of the application which is being considered by you at executive session tonight. Um, I had brief comments for the attorney for the Marians early on in the process and there was discussion about potential changes, but we're not aware of exactly what those changes are and how they affect the matter. I would respectfully request that rather than acting on this matter tonight. Admittedly, you're going to be going into executive session to consider it, but you're coming out of the executive session with an agenda item saying possible decision. I would ask you to consider opening the revisions to the public so that the public can have an honest appraisal of what's going on here. Moreover, I think that the Gateway Commission, which was actively involved in the process earlier, should have some input into the revisions that are being made as well. Um I I would fully appreciate that this

matter be continued at the very least to the next meeting for any any action on this. Um because at this point literally the public comments that were that were brought forward at at the at the first phase of this matter uh will be a non- entity if you if you simply agree to a settlement that none of us have had a chance to view. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Suzanne Thompson, Six Cord Grass Lane, Old Lime. I'm here as the old lime appointee to the Connecticut River Gateway Commission and happen to serve as the chair of the commission. Because our name was mentioned and brought up, I just wanted to reiterate the January 13, 2025 letter that we did send to your zoning commission saying that we would welcome the opportunity to look again at something coming through a special permit. I realize this is a section 8.8 8 uh appeal a different process and we're probably not envisioned in that section of the state statute at all. But as a unique regional organization, all the towns joined in in 1973 and have continued to revise and update the standards including the ones added in 2004 adopted by all towns that provided for this special exception permit review process. It is a different step uh but it is something that regionally we all the eight towns have embraced. So we're here um not quite sure how we fit in the process under section 8.8 but would love to be a part of the consideration.

Okay. Thank you.

Any other comments? Okay, just to be clear, this would be the only time in this meeting this evening that public comment will be allowed. So I will ask again, is there any more public comment on any item on the agenda? Okay. Thank you. All right. At this time, um, the zoning commission will be entering, uh, I believe, two executive sessions.

Well, just one session, I think, for do one session. We're going to do one executive session. We have two items, um, that we need to discuss. Um, we will go into the executive session. I'm going to ask everyone, you'll have to leave the room and you can be in the vestibule or um other sections. We will resume the meeting and call the public back in when we exit executive session. Take a motion to enter. I will then take a motion that we enter executive session. So moved by Denise to attend.

What's being discussed during the executive? There are two areas of litigation that we're discussing. Um 250 Shore Road and 43 Smith neck are the two items of litigation that are being discussed during the executive session. Will you make a decision about 43? We're going into executive session. So I I have no decisions will be made during the executive session. If there are any will be taken discussion during the executive session are there what are the boundaries of discussion is it just about the process

okay sir I mean we will be reviewing plans and other things during the session no votes will be taken if there is something that the commission would like to vote on and I don't know that that's the case when they come out of executive session those items will be basically opened at that point you will be able to see them but there will be no further public comment at that time. Okay. Um as part of that motion as part of discussion before we second it would also like to invite in attorney Willis and our land use coordinator Eric Knap. So is there a second? Second. Okay. All in favor?

I Okay. All right. We're going to ask you folks uh if you would please kindly and we will um call you back in at the end of the session.

Uh, no motions made, no actions taken. Motions made and no actions taken. Okay, everybody.

Hi. Now comes the fun balls. works for GE. We had to get a new just got a new microwave just say, "Hey, do you guys need a new microwave? We can get you a deal. All right. Thank you everyone for your patience. Um we're now going to continue our regularly scheduled meeting. Um, first thing I would ask the commission is for a motion that we move in section five items one and two as the next order of business addressing 250 Shore Road first and 43 Smith's Road second.

Smith. Smith Road second. So move. Second by Mary Joe and second by um Denise. All in favor? I opposed abstain. Okay. So 250 Shore Road. I would uh entertain a motion that the commission approve the special permit uh for 250 Shore Road with the inclusion of the nine conditions as presented. Second. Second. Uh that means you're making the motion, Mary Joe.

Motion making. Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Barnes. All in favor? I I

opposed abstain. Okay. Motion to approve the special permit is passed 5 0. All right. The next item is 250 I'm sorry 43 Smith neck road. I would um like to move that we have a motion to adopt the settlement proposal dated January 12th, 2026 for the following reasons. That there has been a material reduction in the impact to the site. The size of the home has been reduced by approximately 3,000 square feet. The home has been moved back 35 ft and vegetation has been added. I will take motion for that.

Hello. So moved by Denise, second by Mary Joe. Any additional discussion? Okay. Then motion to adopt the settlement proposal dated 1126 with the four conditions. All in favor?

I opposed. Okay, it is approved. 5 Z. Okay, now let's get back to the agenda. We have one more change in the order of business. We need to add was somehow left out. We need to add the uh election of officers. So, I'll take a motion that we add that uh at the end of section six, the receipt and setting at public hearings for new cases. So, move by Mary Joe. Is there a second? Second.

Second by Mr. Foliano. All in favor?

Opposed? stay. Okay. So, we'll do the election if Okay. Our next item, item four is the public hearing case 2511, proposed adoption of comprehensive revised zoning regulations. Purpose of the proposed revisions is to modernize, clarify, and update the town's zoning framework in accordance with current planning objectives and applicable state statutes. O line zoning commission applicant So there's a note on this also. The proposed revision will include a complete reforming reformatting of the regulations. An appendix has been included with the proposed revision to allow users to see where the new regulations sections of the prior versions have been included. Town of old line applicant note this public hearing will be left open until the February 9th meeting. So the meeting of the public hearing or the regulations will not close this evening. Okay. Commission members. Um we have discussed this.

Before you get started here, let me notice in here. Yeah. Do you Okay. You're the secretary, but I So I read legal notice. Okay. Madam Secretary. Yeah. The zoning commission of town of old lime will hold a public hearing at a regular meeting on Monday, January 12th, 2026 at 6:30 p.m. at Memorial Town Hall in the meeting hall 52 Lime Street, Old Lime, Connecticut to consider and hear comments on the following case number 2510, special permit application in Coastal Site Plan 80-1 Lime Street application to extend educational institution to use institutionational use to adjacent property applicant Lime Academy College of Fine Arts Incorporated. Excuse me.

You're going to read both legal notices right now. Both in. Just read them both out now to get them on the record.

And then uh application 2511, proposed addition of comprehension of comprehensive revised zoning regulations update to the town's zoning framework in accordance with current planning objectives and applicable state statutes. Town of Lime applicant. At this hearing, members of the public shall have the opportunity to appear and be heard regarding the proposed adoption of the revised zoning regulations. Copies of the full text of proposed regulations are available for public inspection at the town of Old Lime town clerk's office during regular business hours and on the town's official website. 52 Lime Street, Old Lime, Connecticut, dated at Old Lime, Connecticut, December 30th, 2025, Jane Armar Center. Michael read the list of exhibits because that's what J will do right now. Um, exhibit A is it the application with regulations. Exhibit B is the documentation of different agencies. be notified within 35 days. Exhibit C is the response from SECA, the Southeastern Council of Governments. Exhibit D is the FHI summary of phase one. Exhibit E is the legal ad published to the New London day on December 30th and January 9th. Um, exhibit F is the letter from Connect River Gateway requesting continuence to um dated 1726. Exhibit G is the response from Riverhog and exhibit H is the proposed blight ordinance um old line old old line shoreline gateway commission. Those are the exhibits we've got. Um and again you you should have copies of the rag. I have an extra copy here in the file if anybody needs a copy to look at tonight.

Okay. And at this point Paul back to you. Okay. So commission, I know we have uh an extensive discussion on these regulations. Um do we have any other comments about them uh before we open up the public hearing or are we going to are we just setting the public hearing? No, this is this is a public hearing. We agreed we would leave until February.

Got it. Got it. Got it. Um and just for the record, um planning commission when we had their meeting late last week, um none of them had reviewed it yet. So they have sped a special meeting for the 29th of this month so that they will have comments in time for your February meeting, but I have nothing back from planning at this point in time. Okay. Could someone refresh my memory on the blight ordinance? I don't recall seeing that.

You you haven't seen that. This is going to be part It's really for part two. It's not really for now. They they would like they would like somehow for there to be the incorporation of blight and it's it's not even in your zoning regulations. They're just indicating that they believe that blight is not being dealt with adequately in the zoning regulations and would like you to consider that. So So we're considering adding blight regulations to the regulations except no blight has to be handled by ordinance. It's going to have to be done by town meeting separately. not that

they've given you the I'm not entirely sure why they're telling you that we need a blight ordinance, but they've decided that as long as you're updating the regs, they want to try and make sure that blight is a is a consideration in your regulations. Okay. But a blight ordinance has to be handled by the board of select and not by this by by this commission. So there would be no mechanism because of it. It's not included in there now. No, we can handle and you have in there now prohibitions on junkyards. We have a whole junk section which you can't have. I mean, this is what like how you're managing that house on

166 Mile Creek. Okay. The trial on that is the 28th, by the way, in case you're interested. Um, we have all of that in the ranks. But an actual blight ordinance by statute is a separate entity. You need to appoint a blight officer. You need to appoint a hearing officer to hear appeals from the blight officer. All of which is set up in a separate category. So all we have from Gateway is a statement that they would like you to consider. So that was from Gateway. It wasn't from the municipality. Noate. So it's from Shoreline Gate. Shoreline Gateway Committee. Not Shoreline Gateway Committee. Not not the other. Okay. I just changed my perspective. Okay. Thank you.

So yes, they Shoreline Gateway says, do they have a drafted ordinance already? They have drafted what they want to see in an ordinance. They haven't actually drafted an ordinance at this point in time. Okay. This is this is Shoreline Gateway. This is I understand. That's why I just clarify. Okay. Anybody else? Yeah. No, I think we should go right into public hearing. Okay.

All right. So, if anyone um of of the public would like to comment on the zoning regulation um change adoption, you can you'll come forward name, address three minutes, but I just want to let you know once again that this first phase of the regulation change was simply to dot all the eyes and cross all the tees, if you will. It went through, it looked for ambiguous areas in the text. It made sure that now our zoning regulations are in total compliance with FEMA, with the state uh statutes. So, it's basically a cleanup of what we already have. Nothing new has been added. It's it's it's I guess more secretarial if you want. But that being said, does anyone have any comments about the regulations so far?

Don't all come up at once. Okay. Then with that, I guess we will move to continue. I was going to say move to continue the public hearing to February. Is there a motion? Michael Foliano. Is there a second? I'll second. Is there any discussion? Okay. All in favor of continuing the public hearing for the adoption of the zoning regulations to February for the February meeting. I I You made a motion, right? I second by no Mary Joey. I have Fiona Barnes. Oh, Barnes. Okay. Yep. We're We're right there, aren't we?

We're right there. They're right there, I'm telling you. Okay. All in favor? I opposed abstain. Okay. So, the zoning uh rigs are continued to the February meeting.

Yeah. Paul, if I could just one comment, and this has to do with, you know, we heard about updating. I I'm looking forward to hearing what planning has to say when they do their review on the 29th. But I did want to make it clear that when we're looking at phase two, which is going to be, you know, looking at more substance, the substantiative work that we're going to be doing, that we are going to be reaching out to all the commissions. And I wanted, you know, because um Howard made that comment that he thought that was important and that is our plan. So, and and there's a memo online that kind of clarifies that. So for those who are interested in the zoning rags that that's online um what the process will be.

Thank you. Okay then I guess we are ready to move on to item two case 2510 special permit application and coastal site plan for 80-1 Lime Street application to extend educational institutional use to adjacent property. the Lime Academy of Fine Arts as the applicant. Um, okay. You've already read the legal notice, so we don't need to read that again, but I'm going to read through the exhibit list, so I have that. Okay. Okay.

Um, exhibit A is the application. Exhibit B is the deed. Exhibit C is the coastal area management application. Exhibit D is a statement of use. Exhibit E is a site plan. Uh, exhibit F is an email from Timothy Herpst. Exhibit G is a review by Connecticut River Gateway Commission. Exhibit H is certificates of mailing. And exhibit I is the legal ad published in New London Day on December 30th and January 9th. All right for Hello. I'm Wendy Barry. I'm the managing director at Lime Academy. I'm Jordan. I'm the artistic director at Lime Academy.

I'm Brian McCann. I'm an attorney from Zel Shelonberg. Represent the Lime Academy. Welcome. Thank you. I can lend you off. I just hand these. I think you got most of these in your in your packet. Um,

thank you.

So, um, my name is Brian McCann. I am a land use uh municipal and zoning attorney with Zel Shelonberg. Um I represent the Lime Academy of Fine Arts. Um the Lime Academy of Fine Arts um is located at 82-84 Lime Street. Um they have an existing campus um where they do art instruction. Um they create arts. Um they have um they had an opportunity to acquire the property next door 80-1 Lime Street. Um that property was owned by um an artist named Gil Burrow. And um Gil um constructed a um a barn on the property, an art studio and a barn. And he um had an outdoor a public outdoor showcase um to the rear of the barn between the barn and the and the water's edge. um that was open to um the public. Um the um there is an existing um crosswalk between um LA and 80-1 Lime Street. Um I use Laffa because it's easier than Lime Academy of Fine Arts. Um the the the reason for this um crosswalk is because um the Lime Academy allowed uh visitors of the outdoor showcase to use their their parking lot. And they also encourage students to go um uh view the

outdoor showcase and interact with the sculpture and um and to learn um as I said the the the opportunity became available to um upon uh Mr. Burrow's retirement the opportunity became available to acquire the property. Um that is something that um LA was very interested in and um with the assistance of a u um a donor they were able to accomplish that. Um so they have um acquired the property. I know a lot of you um heard our presentation at the pre-application level and I'm not sure that the property had closed at that point. So I wanted to bring you um up to date on that. Um, LFA does own 80-1 Lime Street and um they are here tonight because um they're interested in expanding their educational use um onto 80-1 um Lime Street. Specifically, they're interested in using the art studio barn on the property. Um they um have plans to their immediate plans are to uh improve the uh crosswalk between the two properties and have more of a safe um connection uh between the two properties so that um students can can cross and access the property safely. Um the parking will remain on uh 82-84

Lime Street. Um, as I said in my um in my memo, um there will be some um use of the there is a driveway that runs um um on 80-1 but on the side of of 8284. Um that was um actually one of the few zoning permits that I did file find in the file. Um there was an application to uh improve that driveway as well as install some um vegetation along buffer along the sides of that because for those that aren't aware um 80-1 is u a rear lot. So there is a a property uh in front and I think at the time that the the idea was to kind of have some visual buffer for that public access that that that may occur. Um the driveway as we are uh proposing its use will be primarily for um deliveries u of art materials um and such. Uh there will be a few parking spaces adjacent to the uh art studio, but um all of the students will park on uh 82 Live Street. Um the uh property is uh located in RU40 zoning district. It's well over um the required 1.3 acres. Uh I believe it's four four and a

quarter um acres. Um there is a main residence on the property. Um that property uh excuse me that residence is going to be occupied. Um and it's going to be occupied by um someone with a volunteer position at the art uh school. Um there's currently an ingground swimming pool that the uh academy plans on filling in. Um and two additional out buildings um and the affformentioned outdoor sculpture display ground. Although um it's my understanding that the sculptures have been removed from the from the property. I believe they went with the former owner or to

other locations. Um, according to your zoning regulations, um, you do allow in the RU40 district, uh, private schools, profit or nonprofit as well as philanthropic, educational, recreational, religious uses by, uh, duly organized nonprofit entities. And we're essentially applying under both because I think they laugh of qualifies um equally under under both of those um categories. Um the main use of the property will be in the um art studio. Um however there will be some use of the surrounding grounds on the attached site plan. Um we have a shaded an area shaded in yellow that's um that is um called out as the exclusive use, but it's not the only use. So I want to be clear and upfront with the with the commission. There will be um some shared areas around the property including the sculpture ground, including the outdoor um work area. But um I think for purposes of the special permit application, it's important to point out where those direct um you know classroom functions are going to occur. And what we've done is we've proposed some um some visual and um noise screening. I

think we have a um a vegetated buffer as well as some some fencing around that area. Um the purpose of that really isn't to screen or buffer that from the remainder of the property. The real purpose is to screen and buffer that from adjacent properties. Um because the dwellings on the property are going to be occupied by students or f uh students or um um positions at the school. I don't really think that there's going to be a problem with the resident or residents on the property at 80-1 lime. I think it's mostly um to assist with the visual buffer and noise buffer from adjacent properties. Um there is um outdoor sculpture area and um one thing that I did want to point out which was actually caught by the uh Connecticut deep and I appreciate it was that in my narrative I have said I think there's minimal or or virtually no um physical improvements that go along with the special permit application. Well, one, there is one um and I'm glad I was caught because we should be clear on the record. Um we are proposing a covering for the outdoor um workspace. So, that's important to note for um the record. And there will be and and I'm not trying to represent to uh the commitment that there won't be uh renovations um down the road. In fact, I think they're discussing some

some renovations, some there's certainly some deferred maintenance that needs to um be fixed. Um, so there will be some renovations down the road, but um, specific to this special permit application, I think the two physical proposals aside from the buffers and the plantings are the improvement of the walkway um, to make something that's ADA accessible and the covering for the outdoor um, workspace. Um, I've walked through in my memo. I don't I I I think you could read the memo. Um, so I don't want to belabor uh the points, but what I did do is I walked through um the special permit criteria. Um the property is 4.25 acres. So I think there's some ability especially given the fact that the residences are need to get a quick bearing. The residences are to the the adjacent residences are to the south and the east. Um and so there is some um a pretty significant amount of of space uh in between the shaded yellow area and the area the the classroom area and the adjacent properties. Um so in concert with the the physical separation and the again the vegetative vegetative buffer um we believe that there's um minimal uh intrusion onto the uh adjacent

residential properties. Um, as far as um traffic um traffic and parking, as I stated, the um existing campus property 82 will be the parking lot serving 80-1. Um there are no plans um from LFA to um increase enrollment as uh a direct consequence of of acquiring this uh art studio. So there should not be an increase in traffic or in parking. Um the um another thing that I went through in the special permit criteria is that the um art studio barn was used um by the previous owner for uh metal fabrication, um art creation, sculpture creation. um and custom contract work with with with metal fabrication. Um those uses will no longer be uh made of the property. This will be the laugher proposes purely um educational uses on the property. So they're not going to be the same contract work from private clients. It's going to be instructing students on um sculpture and art. Um there will also be creation of sculpture and art. So um

just to clarify, sorry to interrupt you. Are you sure you want to say that you're not going to be doing the existing things? There will be there will be like the the welding of the Those are sculptures, right? That's art in essence, right? So, I just want to make sure you're not procluding yourself from that ability by saying you're going to abandon those uses because if the uses are existing right now, if I was I'd leave them attached. Yeah. No, I think what I meant specifically though is the commercial. I I understand contract work. I'm talking very myopically, I guess. Um, but yeah, because the way I interpreted that was that the that they wouldn't do those things.

Oh, no. We will be doing those things. That's why I'm clarifying because I wanted to we will still be making sculptures. Yeah, I I I understand. Yeah, that that part they definitely will do. Um so, thank you for that clarification. Oh, and also the the outdoor um art showcase. Uh they intend to continue that as well. That was one other question. I don't want to get you guys off topic. So, if you prefer me to wait questions for the end, I'll be happy to wait till the end of your presentation. No, we

um but as I'm sitting here looking at your thing and it's just to the same point, I see the whole green area for tenant only. If I'm not mistaken, some of that area was used as part of the display of some of the artwork. So, you're absolutely sure that the college doesn't want any art space outside of this green area. So, that's for the lease agreement in terms of kind of clarifying, but we the the tenant plans to offer us this. It is offered in the lease agreement, the draft lease agreement that we'll be able to have access to it, use it and plan shows, use it. It's very collaborative use of space. I I see this as it says tenant. So to me that means the art academy is not going beyond the yellow. But if your intention is for it to go beyond the yellow, maybe it needs to be defined differently.

Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask sort of the same question was can we have some sort of hatch area or whatever it is that says area to be you know possibly used for future you know art space or whatever else just so that it's clear that you're not literally just limited to the yellow yeah you're requiring the whole property so you want to make sure that you have access to the whole property and not just that yellow shaded area and my interpretation of this application right now is it's just that yellow area okay that's fair

again the the if you weren't I'm not sure if it was who was here on the informal or not. But there are a lot of questions from Jane Marsh regarding the tenency and the mixeduse nature of this and um again if the majority of land is going to be for the tenant and the minority is going to be for the uh for Laffa. Um it you know you're sort of straying into an area that I'm sure Jane Marsh if she were here would have lots of questions regarding what's the the primary use of this space as opposed to you know if you're asking for the primary use to be the arts academy that's great but that doesn't seem to be reflected in what you're showing on the page here. Okay.

Yeah I agree with that. I was involved with the and actually we had um Mr. NAP gave us some good comments and we actually had reached out to um a surveyor. It wasn't able we we intended to do a full survey. Unfortunately, it couldn't be completed in the time frame that we had liked. Um but Wendy's right. the the the site plan, that particular site plan, the the shaded the colored one was uh created for the the lease. And the intent there was that there be areas that are um called out that are exclusively for the art instruction. And we had designated that yellow just as a mere exclusive use. But the uh resident of the property is an artist. Um the resident of the property is involved with the with the um academy and um and actually the resident of the property is here tonight. um that outdoor work area uh excuse me, sculpture um showcase is an area that's going to be um used by the academy. There's no there's no question that I mean I don't know that it can that we could say it's going to be exclusively used. There's going to be a shared use because of the um because of the tenant. But

yeah, and we've talked about really for the purpose of students, right? So the students shouldn't have the ability to just wander all over campus, right? Agreed. So for that purpose, this makes sense to us that there was an original kind of lease agreement that that's their property. Students need to stay in their instructional area.

The agreement is though that the full property is open for us to use with the you know with discussion with the le that it is open grounds for us to have. We've also had a lot of discussion about uh them having an actual role in the academy as being kind of a hospitality fellow which there which means the home then becomes a gathering space which we don't have on campus without dorms. Um so there's a larger role for the tenants to be in there but so while it's not reflected there and if we need to re that makes sense but the intention and the understanding is a very collaborative one where everything is working together to serve the students.

Totally understand. I just modify your map to reflect that because as I see it right now, they're two separate things and I just don't want if this tenant leaves at some point in time. If this is what you filed on the record, right, then this is what you're saying. Yeah, there are co- primary uses here. Well, that that's we can sort of talk about that. And also just wanted to make sure we reflect on the record this is a sort of a life tenency and that okay it will terminate with it the death of the the current owners or her current occupants I guess it is correct so that just also needs to get put on the record eventually this will all be in LFA's control

and this application is going to follow that so that's why I'm saying whatever things you want to correct correct next step on your toes here and and it is owned by LA it's currently owned by Laff So I mean one could argue that it currently is in LA. No, I understand in title you have even the tenency will be in in Okay. I'm confused when you in your write off you said it was going to be leased to the the donor. The donor. Yes. Leased to the donor. Correct. Or other significant financial contributors to the property. So some after his teny is up under life use. No. No. That's That's what I That's what I read.

Yeah. So, the school can use the house after the tenency is but we can't he the life tenant can't transfer his tenants. I understand that. What I'm saying is after the Is that what I said? Okay. I'm sorry if I misspoke, but that's what I'm concerned about is just making sure that you can still do all those things that you want to do outside of the absence of him.

Yeah. The application says the the plan is to lease the main residence attached garage and certain surrounding grounds of subject property to LFA affiliated individuals parenthetically fellows instructors senior directors entirely which is sort of open-ended so and and so that is at some point in the future because it doesn't say in here that that there's a current tenant that's a life tendency Well, that's why we're trying to get that into the record here. That's

Yeah, there is a life teny. I the the the plan the current plan for Lapa is that um after the life tenency that a faculty member or fellow would assume the teny that's the way I would what else you going to do is have an empty house or more right? So I think that's an advantage to the campus is offering a residential space to somebody of your campus. That my personal opinion,

but even with the current uh people that will be living there, part of the agreement is that they actually do share parts of the homes in terms of social gatherings. There's an apartment upstairs above the garage that will be for our use to have faculty members, their visiting faculty and artists be able to use it. So that residence itself is not while it's their residence to lease they have made it a shared space and serving in a role to serve as kind of ambassadors to the students in terms of hospitality. So that house will be used to support the student you know student body. Yeah. So the lease is with the owner or the donor. There's no lease then for the other visiting related people. It's there's not a there's not two leases or

No. When we have visiting faculty or artists, we just put them up someplace. This would just allow us to not have to go put them up in a hotel. Okay. The application some of apartments as well. Yes. Just one single apartment. I read there's two. There's one in the barn. Um it's very small. It's a studio apartment. And then there's one above the garage of the residence. That's that are existing apartments. Yes. Yeah. And are they going to be leased separately or

So we don't know what we're going to do with the one inside the barn. Um it could be you it has to be it needs a lot of work. Uh we've thought about whether it could be an independent apartment for like somebody who works at the academy. Um there's opportunity for visiting faculty, visiting uh artists that use it. Um, so it's not been determined yet, but the one above the garage is been given to us in terms of part of our agreement is that it would be ours to ask them to say we have people coming in and we probably would use it numerous times a year, more than So, how are those per currently permitted? I don't know how you find that in the record. Um, I'm not against it. I'm just trying to clarify so that way is it actually truly a permitted apartment? Yeah, I don't. Yeah. I

Does it have a CEO or is it just something that's there? I know there was a I don't know about the apartment above the garage, but there was a permit for the the bar. Yep. Yeah, that was actually one of the few. I'm all for being able to house your staff if there's a possibility or mechanism to personally. Yeah, you've talked about having like a living groundskeeper. Well, that was say a grounder. Again, going back to some of Jane's questions, how does this all come together? Is it educational primary with the residential parts accessory? Is that

Yeah, I mean the theory and you guys struggled with it a lot when we were talking about it was that again as a primary special permit use this is educational and that as part of educational you do have people living there as part of that. So the barn piece of it all of that seemed to work. where Jane kept getting hung up was it's not typical for the donors to live in things that of this sort. The the sort of workaround that was being proposed is what they've been talking to you about is having them sort of contributing to the art program by being by offering their house for certain art functions by you know doing art related activities that were part of the college. Um, and I'm not sure you all had a great comfort level, but that was sort of h how it was being discussed in a way to address those sorts of concerns. Whether you believe that's sufficient or not, that's a judgment call for you to make. But again, as they are presenting it, they're saying the donors are retaining some art function and some college function even though they're going to be living there.

Check the box. So check the box. I mean, that's where I was last time. that seem to be continuous with the mission of the of yeah academy and again if you want sort of further description on the record of what how how they're going to participate in the arts operation I'm guessing they can do that they have a donor here tonight so um that's up to you but again that that's where again Jane was sort of struggling with it and again that the thought was they were going to sort of contribute to the college in some way to to sort of address that issue

we have kind of formalized the name of it as being a hospitality fellow role and kind of outline what that role would mean, which means uh when you orientation uh different um holidays that we don't have a space on campus that can be more of a social activity space. It's mostly all educational classrooms and then some small kitchenets um but this would serve as kind of an extension where we really could have more intimate gathering, more privacy for visiting faculty and artists um but more of a casual and social space that we could use that's not part of the actual campus. So, they've been incredibly generous in talking to us about how they could support programs that we often can't have on campus or are limited and make them feel not very social. Um, and so it's been a great process at least talking about how it could be an extension of the programs in a more kind of welcoming and hospitable way to have people to have it served that way.

The application has the enumerate some of the possible uses. I think it would be useful and and at the end there's kind of an open-ended clause there. It says other stuff. So, um I think it might be useful to tighten that up to say that whatever the other stuff is, it's going to continue to be continuous with the with the mission and not the beer. To your point, Mike, that's where I think Jane was always uncomfortable is what h yes, you guys have the academy now. It's not going anywhere. We hope you know like but a few years ago that was a possibility, right? So, I think she would always get hung up on um what's going to happen here if you didn't continue to occupy this space? What's the unintended consequence of somebody else occupying this space?

That was that was really both of our concerns. I was very well. So, yeah, I knew I heard it somewhere, right? So with that in mind like um is there a way to craft this in such a way where it's as opposed to a variance that runs with the land can this condition can this approval be conditioned specific to the lime artmy's no you're not able to do that but again because this is a life use tenency you do have sort of a builtin limitation of how long this can go on I mean it can't go on indefinitely um so you know it will terminate question of when it terminates. I'm not even talking about the I'm talking about the apartments.

Oh, but the apartments again, the apartments are approved as part of the educational use. Okay. So, if someone else with an educational use goes in there and they want to use the apartments, they certainly can do that. If the educational use goes away, then the apartments go away and whoever comes in has to come in for a new special permit for whatever they're going to be doing. Okay, that's what I just want to clarify so we're not trapping ourselves into some sort of agreement with something that's not supposed to be Okay. If some other academy wants to go in after this academy and wants to use these for professor apartments, that's basically the special permit that we've already given. That's that's I was trying to clarify.

But if someone wants to do this as a retail storefront, which is not allowed in the zone, but okay, whatever. If they're if they change the primary function into something that is not educational, they have to come back you to you and start entirely from scratch. I think it's an unlikely scenario, but I had to ask it because I know Jane would be asking. Yeah. So, I think it'd be useful to close that open end. Okay. Are these apartments do these have kitchens? Uh what are these apartments consisting of? Oh, they're barely a kitchenet. Um I think the one inside the barn literally just has not even a one of the electric hot plate kind of situation. No stoves. That's usually the requirement.

I don't think it has a stove. Uh I think has a mini fridge. The one above the garage I think has more of a The one above the garage is it's about this big that the sink in the cooking area. Yeah. I mean there's a stove when it goes to like 12,200° right? They're they're not Yeah. They do need some some some work with them, but they they're not meant to be they I don't think they for our purposes they're not going to be live in year round places. These are going to be they're there most of our visiting artists are there for no more than a few days maybe a week. We some of our faculty they come up weekly from New York City for example they stay one night and go back um and so this would be a place for them just to sleep.

I think it's phenomenal. I mean personally I think it's a good idea. Is there any problem in our regulations allowing for that? No that's again part of it being an educational use is you have facilities for faculty whoever else that that are able to stay there. So, the fact that it's transient as opposed to permanent, that's I don't know if the regs really care about that. Um, as far as the code issues about that's where I was going. That's a building code, fire code thing that I'm going to stick other people on. Um, but yeah, I I will send the building official in there to go take a look or I'll send the build fire marshall in there to take a look,

but I'm not sure that that's a zoning concern necessarily in the sense that zoning mely says are you using it for a allowed zoning purpose and if we're saying it's an allowed zoning purpose, then we have to trust that the other people do their jobs. I think we did this also with the uh old bean thistle. So like that's an educational organization now and I fought pretty hard to because I was concerned they were going to abandon their use of the dwelling units in that building but I think ultimately we determined if you recall that they can use it for the visiting do or visiting scientists and all that separate building. I agree and but there was sign it was also in the third floor of that building. Okay.

But there was significant involvement with code and and and I know because there was fire marshall was over there all through also if you recall for the autobond building. Okay. Okay. So we're an accredited institution which means we answer to many power you know many different and one of them would be anything around the educational space. Not only do we have to be in local code uh local code but there is also just making sure that for educational we have to be accredited which means we have to hit our own standards which in some cases can be more than what's required but from a local code we'll meet whatever we need to meet in terms of making sure it's yeah safe space

yeah I don't it's not unsafe um it just needs updating you have I mean you have a carrier for an educational purpose it's a little bit different than your homeowners policy. Um, but we look at this to go back to the first question, we look at this as predominantly educational use. And I have to agree with you that that's a deceiving um, site plan. It's just an illustration that needs updating. Yeah. Yeah. If you'd like to make a commission of your approval, if they gave us a modified version of this that that reflects areas that will be of shared use, that's probably a a useful commission approval to add. Okay. And I think the open-ended part of the the dwellings are intended to be used for educational

purposes, accessory purpose, and close it there. So, leaving it open.

Well, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to add, especially after what happened at Providence last month. So your safety requirements for a school uh carrying over into a private residence, will you be um can you ensure the students, the parents, the building will be up to standards as far as um ingress out egress and um all of that. It's a small little campus. I get that, but I you know we live in a different time. I mean our insurance um we work really closely with them to make sure that we talk about anything that happens on campus and off campus and this would be considered part of the camp. So we would work with the insurance company to make sure that they're appropriately insured but also that we have the safety measures in place if it's going to be heavily used for students then yes we have to make sure that it meets the requirements.

Okay. Thank you. I believe there'll be a fire marshal inspection but in connection with the CEO. Yeah I'm sure there will be. Again, I will this is not to be I I I said I will send they'll have to go anyway. I'm not in charge of sending your fault. We won't blame you for it, but we'll expect it. Um, also Eric, there's a future residential dock for exclusive use by tenant on here. Yeah. But, you know, we have no plans. We don't control that dock in any event. That dock's deep. But by approving this, do we approve them? We have no we have no regulatory authority to approve or disapprove that duck.

Okay. The dock is entirely under Deep's control and they will have to go get a permit from Deep no matter what we do. So you guys know that now if you didn't know before. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. And speaking of of Deep um the coastal what we haven't mentioned yet, this is also a CAM site plan. I want to mention that. Um and the um deep review came in today and you that was for the coastal site plan review for the coastal site plan and that was not included in our submission. So I just want to call that out. It's attached to your handouts from tonight but it was not included

well deep issuing a permit. They're authorizing it through the they don't even need to authorize through the coastal site plan because it's in their jurisdiction. Right. Well I think we're talking about two different things. You're kind of dovetailing on Eric's comment about the dock and I I agree with him but well I'm trying to clarify the coastal uh site plan application requires a specific review from regarding potential impacts to coastal resources. That review came in today and and it finds that it's consistent with all applicable uh coastal resources. So that's good news. Yeah.

Well, I mean at this point you're not really You're just proposing a change of use. You really haven't done any site plan changes for the correct.

The couple of things that I was looking at was making sure that um like I know you want to have parking over there, but I also had talked about access for deliveries and that kind of stuff. And if you're taking that into consideration, want to make sure that you have access to the backs of the buildings. So, um, so that's where, for example, you have this, you know, this fence up and then this exclusive use area, which we know we're going to get rid of that, but I'm just saying the way we have this designed right now. I'm looking at how do you maintain a building, you can't get to the back of the building. So, I know it's yours. The way that the site plan is looks at, it doesn't look that way. So I think it's really important that you get this right in terms of if the primary use is education, you need to give yourself access to everything you want to use on the site plan. And then um you know the because the secondary use is the residential and that is definitely not clear on the site plan. just looking at what you've given us right now. I'd be hardressed to prove this because it's doesn't say what you're te what you're telling me we're gonna do. I'm like, yeah, but what it's saying is not that at all.

There is a road on there. So, are you looking for like a gate defense? I agree with you on that. The site plan doesn't match what they're describing as far as the activity. I clarified that in my opinion on that perspective. Well, the issue being you want to just make sure you can get to the back of the buildings. How are you going to do that and to the barn building? Yeah. To the backs of the building. So, just make sure that you know you definitely can. There's actually a door on the other, but when you know that that access way right now, which is fairly narrow and it actually goes down and it's horrible in terms of just safety,

they the goal is to actually at some point raise it, make it flat, widen it so much so that even say we can get a car to deliver do deliveries from our side of campus, right? Not use the main driveway. That's a whole different potential improvement. But the um the walkway is around the back. Um yeah, the around the back of the building there's a door there that um it would still be within there's access door points on the back of that building that we would Yeah, I'm not ask I'm I'm talking about vehicle access for doing

that's actually a turnaround that goes around this building there's um when you come down by the barn there's a little out building but right it's actually a circle that goes around that little shed that becomes an area that's actually where the fire emergency trucks and anything else would go. Okay, I see it now. that improved road goes all the way down to the waterfront. Yeah. So, what I'm saying is that it's on the aerial photo, but it's not on that site plan. So, they're not you're not you're not showing us on the site plan what ex what's existing. The site plan just doesn't have the detail and you should really be just show showing us what's on the aerial photo

and so that we know that then you have the you know the the access. Um, I think you had said you were going to fill in the pool. Is that still the plan? Yes.

He actually mentioned I'm assuming that they weren't able to get Hendricks Associates out there to do an updated site plan based on so this is they're working off of an old survey plan because they couldn't get Tony out there to do what he needed to do in a timely fashion is my observation. Yeah, I guess I, you know, like I said, that's that's just a couple of things I was looking at is just making sure that when you do this, it's like, okay, this residence is going to be used and whatever you do with your tenants in terms of the use of the property and where you're going to be, but you need to be in control of it. So, that's where we need to, you know, from an educational perspective. So I I just think it really needs to be clarified as Mike pointed out to the start,

but I'm looking at it from that issue of access, what else you might want to do, where you want to have the sculpture garden, and you know, if you're going to cover, you know, put the cover on. Those are all things that, you know, right now you're just saying a change of use, but you're not telling us what any changes are. So, and you'll have to come back with that, I guess, with a site plan, but

Absolutely. Yeah. And there will be there will be you know we don't want to be koi or opaque there will be site improvements that will occur. I think right now um there are a couple different um drivers. Um one is obvious the lease agreement which is already executed. Um, another is, um, that they would hope to, um, get into this space. Um, and, um, they wanted to just prioritize the special permit for the change of use and then come back like Wendy said, I mean, when this trail that's also in a coastal jurisdictional area, so we're going to have to come back for um,

if you want to improve that beyond what it is right now, beyond what it is. and and so there there will be um subsequent applications. Um but I think the real priority is the is the change of use because that this this this uh art studio is um one of the more recent uh constructions on the property. It's it's it's probably in the in the best shape out of all the buildings and it and it could be with min minimal modifications. It could be occupied in two or three months if they wanted it to which is not the case for some of these.

Well, just out of curiosity, so this this application is for the zone change, right? Right. Change of use. Change of use. So, but we're still doing a coastal site plan review as part of this change of use. Yeah. It's because a special purpose. So to that point, instead of making you come back with a separate application, since we're already doing a coastal site plan improvement uh application here, would it be in your interest to modify and get the up-to-date maps and then come back next month and then basically give us your updated site plan with the improvements that you're intending to make so you're not having to make application twice as far as can we make the improvements that they're going to want to make part of the application of the change of use to not we haven't designed them out yet so I don't think that that's okay. thought and I to me it seems like everything was already on here.

I appreciate the thought of the efficiency side of it and making sure but I know that there are kind of for us the two steps in our mind of actually building out those plans based on whether we have approved um and then also getting forward with the sculpture program that will take place. Well, I just know as of right now you're going to be giving us a separate updated site plan with the changes. So, I was just commenting in that moment. No, that's a good that's a good suggestion, but I think like among other things, we didn't want to assume that we would be Yeah, you don't want to cloud it. Yep. I got it. Eric, forgive my my my forgetfulness. We were talking about two ways to possibly do this.

So, one was where we are now looking at this, but what was the other way? And did you guys finish exploring that? Do you remember what I'm talking about? I think we should wait for Jane because she's probably the one that you talking about Jane's ideas. No, I think I mean I think we all were talking about that. Would it would it make more sense to to separate these plans instead of having it Yeah, there was a question about whether to merge the properties or not merge the properties. That that seemed to be what we were talking about. That was that that's not that to divide. Yeah. Okay. Right. I remember that that the setback was the issue.

Yeah. So I because I know you were gonna talk about that explore that a little bit more. So and that's where it's like okay have we explored all that we're all certain that this is the way this needs to go is what I guess I think we're okay on that piece of the puzzle. The question for you is do you want to leave the hearing open for them to come back with additional materials or revised mapping here other things just you know clear on what we're asking for. Um because again it seems like there's sort of a lot of questions you particularly have that say uh what are we really improving tonight? I would agree with that and also I would feel more comfortable if Jane were back. I would agree and um could discuss that if we do do that Jana will not be here next month. Um

special meeting I'm okay. So no she won't be here at all February anywhere in the area. Oh she's going to So we would have to if we did this we would have to continue the public hearing to the March meeting. So our only concern is that classes begin in end of September and if we were going to uh you know another two or three months delay uh not delay but you know in terms of processing um that would just you know be it be a challenge for us is there what about can we revisit the conditional well I guess one way to that maybe possibly but what it would what if we got a second meeting this month for this special meeting for for Jane to be present if she could

well I I I don't know how long it's going to take you guys to to do what additional materials you need to do. So, um, so I again I as you're I guess you're you're hearing the sense from the commission as to where the commission is at. Do you have a sense as how long it would take you to to revise your materials to to to address the commission's concerns?

Um, we it it it may take some time. Um, I only I believe that in part because I was the one charged with with with uh working on the on the site plan and um after about two dozen hours learning about how someone's semi-retired but working for an engineering firm that's not in town anymore and um I think what we're going to have to do um is probably just start from scratch with a whole new um site plan book really. Um, yes. Yeah, I do.

I mean, this one is colored differently right now. I'd say we go for it. The condition I can give you the conditioning the conditional. I mean, if we can, you know, rather than starting from scratch. I Well, no. What I mean is, um, I think we're going to have to hire it a a a surveyor to do an a an updated A2, but we're hoping we're hoping that we could do that at the time of the site improvements. That that was the discussion that I've had with the clients.

Um, again, right now, we're not misrepresenting anything. If we can submit um without redoing the entire survey, if we can submit a revised plan showing that outdoor um showcase area um as part of the educational use um as a as a

possibly as a condition of approval. I mean, this is we're literally just going to reshade this this this same plan. And then at the time when we come um eight months uh from now when we come to you with um some of the site work, then I think it would make sense to invest the $10,000 into the into the site plan and and get that done appropriately. Is the covered area part of your sort of phase one or is that is that in the That's part of phase one. Yes. So, you have that on the site plan, too. Is there any lighting or anything like that involved that you're going to be doing? Um, none. None. No additional lighting.

I don't think we're very familiar with just how much lighting yet. I mean, there's it's very well lit right now when we see it every night. So, I don't anticipate anything like that. I mean, the problem the way you've presented it to us is, you know, what was laid out earlier is that you've got all this area that has nothing to do with the school. Let's say exclusive use for residential or or exclusive use for tenant of most of the property, but you want us to reszone the whole property and yet that use is not changing. That use is residential. We're not I don't agree with that. We're not reszoning it, but we are changing the

well use the use. But but changing that but I'm saying changing the use is basically this is saying that so if I if we approve this site plan the way it is it looks like we're approving what you put into a lease which is you might not want to tie yourselves to the lease

in terms of our zoning approval and that's what I'm so and and my concern the way you've presented it is that for the public who might want to look at it. Let's just say, you know, that they don't know about it now, but you know, we this is what always happens is now all of a sudden somebody one of the neighbors will find out, but they look at this and they're not going to they're not going to know what we're really reszoning because of the the coloration just doesn't say what we're doing. We're looking to reszone the whole piece of property. Yeah. I mean, two two things on that point. Number one, we we view this as a educational use. We view we view the whole property as an educational use.

The Lime Academy of Fine Arts owns this property. The Lime Academy of Fine Arts has given a life tenency to a particular tenant on the property

and that has a position with with the school. We view the whole property as an educational use. As far as the the the the particular shading on on this map, um we we this this particular drawing is one sheet of of 40 or 50 pages that we've submitted to the the the zoning department. Um, we've explained why uh that this has this shading and it's because of specific negotiations on exclusive exclusive use of this. In other words, meaning that LA is not going to allow the tenant at the property to use this portion of the property. But the inverse is not also true that that they are going to be able to use the outdoor showcase and other spaces of the property. Just because there's an exclusive use doesn't mean that there's no other uses.

There's not what exclusive means. No, no, but what I'm saying is that there's there's you've defined the there's exclusive use by lap of the yellow shaded area. What I'm saying is that there's not an exclusive use of the green by the tenant. But that's what you're No, that's what it says. Read what the map says. It says exclusive use. Green area exclusive use. That's why I'm bringing this up. That's news to me. Yeah. So this arrow right here. Okay. Exclusive. That was not the intent. Yeah, I understand that was the intent. I want to tie you guys to this land use.

You need to be Yeah, you need to have that has the rest of the green space has nothing to do with the tenant. the way it's described in this site plan review in essence or coastal site plan review and this change of use. So that's why I was articulating from the beginning, are you sure this is correct? Because if this is what gets filed, even if we agree to a condition where it's changed, we're still not familiar with the changes that you guys are doing, we're leaving the DEO to make that assumption, right? That it's that it's good enough for the people sitting here. Yeah.

So that's why I was like, maybe we can do a special meeting if if if this in this case, if you're not trying to redraw the whole site plan, you get this CAD file or however you get Hendrickx down there. I I feel hopefully 20 days somewhere before Jane leaves, there might be an opportunity to reshade this map or however you plan on doing it and show us the changes that you're going to make as best you can without having to go do a full A2 because somebody's already done the A2. You just need someone to redelineate the draft work here. Um, yeah, I would I would re look at all of these boxes that you've basically telling us how you're going to use and modify the language and change.

We don't need to know all of that. we it's like if you want this as it's going to be used for you know a school then we should know that in the narrative you can get into okay this is what the tenants's going to do so that it's not just a tenant so that we can say and I think that's important you were discussing that they were going to you know offer their house up as whatever hospitality or or do something they were going to be some part of the educational piece that's I think the important narrative here you're giving us stuff that like really confuses the issue and would confuse the public if they went into the files and that's where we don't have anybody commenting on it now. But this is where it will come back to bite us if this gets into the file.

I understand the intent with the tenency and the tenant and his area to use while he's there for his life use. I understand all that. It's just not reflected here. Yeah, we can fix that. And I apologize. I didn't know the exclusive I knew about the exclusive use of my What's that? Generous. It's wonderful. You know, I think we all just want you just want it to be right. That's exactly right. Yeah. And to that point, do you think you guys can get if you don't want to wait till March, is there a mechanism to get it done sooner or at least try on your half because if you can I think the resources of the person who who made this donation as far as the his skill, you know, the people that he's worked with, I'm sure he's got somebody that can get out here and get a survey and get this thing done and get it back here before the end of the month. Does it need the full survey? Can it just be

there's already been there's already been a full survey done. You're just taking somebody's draft work on a CAD file and reapplying it somewhere else and putting somebody else's stamp on it. That that we could do. Yeah. I mean, I think I I I'd be more interested rather than trying to get into all the land area. It's like, okay, this building's going to be this building's the barn. It's going to be it's the art center and has an apartment in it. This one has an apartment. so that we kind of know and and the fact that there's an apartment in the residential unit is kind of saying, oh, and we are going to use this unit. I mean, I think that's an important thing that you need to document, you know. So, so I'm looking at, you know, just tell us how the building's going to be used and then, you know, so that then it

it's um supporting your application for educational use. Sure. And the other apartment's in the instructional space. There's one apartment in the yellow that inside the yellow um on that little anti-anex area. It's above that. I don't want to over complicate. Would it be useful to delineate this into instructional? It's all owned. You own it all to delineate into instructional space and housing. Well, they they they did that, but they just didn't define it as clear as I think they need to make it. We can certainly delineate which ones are apartment spaces which are in the context of owner and tenant right now not instructional and okay I'm sorry which ties it to educational but not

right because it's like owner who's the you know like we understand who the owner is but like put a little different color in for the the housing embedded in your in your instructional that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. And and and even when you say an instructional then it's like okay because then it's like when we're doing the the housing then you can say like okay how does all this housing t you know that's the that's what we need in the narrative how does all this housing so it justifies our our change because that's our challenge is we don't supposed to have this mixed use because you own it all and it's all educational right. Yeah. Okay. So then it's then it's

I did address that housing in the in the narrative. You did. I'm just saying just make that really clear. That's visual learners is what I'm saying. We need that. Well, it's the map for interpretation. Well, it's definitely not art. I guess what happens is everybody turns to this. Yeah. And this is like so confusing all the boring. So, and it's just make sure that it's nice and tight in terms of what we need to do. Why is where the tenant is using it? Why are we going to say this? And and I know you do have some of that narrative in there. benefits all of us to have that. As far as your map corrections, I saw the gentleman nodding in the back that he seems to think he can probably get this done in a timely timely manner. So, we're in our school.

You can redraw the map. Sure. You got CAD somewhere. Okay. So, do we want to question social media? There an appetite for that. Maybe maybe we should find out when you get yours done. It's a deadline. We'll get it done. Well, we don't we haven't spoken to Jane. We don't know our schedules. So, I would say, as one maggot said to the other, work in dead earnest, okay, to get it done. And um I think No, that's a no. But that's an old one, you know. That's a real old one. Say oldie, but a goodie.

That's right. But so, yeah, if you get it get it done, then let Eric know. And then at that point, we'll look at trying to get everyone together for a special meeting if we can. If not, then because Jane is kind of key in this, she was very key the very beginning. So, um, if not, we're off until March. Is there a way to bring her up to speed in advance of that meeting? She can listen to the uh the meeting um to so that she can hear what our concerns are. But um yeah, she can do that. But I think the best thing for us to do is for you to tell us when you think or contact Eric when you think you're ready

and let Eric maybe have a first pass through to it and then he can then let us know and then we can take it from there for scheduling. Just quickly, do you know when she's leaving? I don't I know she's going to be gone the entire month of February, but I don't know when in February or whether she's leaving at the end. January. It's January. Okay. And you're off. I said earlier that you're off in February. There's a meeting. No, there is a meeting, but Jane will not be here. And I think Jane had a lot of questions on this proceed procedurally. Do we want to just say we're going to set a no special meeting? No. So that way you can continue. No, we're leaving it open till the next meeting. If we have a special meeting, we'll but then we'll go ahead. We can't.

Okay. Cuz that's right. Okay. So we might have the response by February, not March. I'm thinking it's not going to be heard again till March. But in essence, it could be this public hearing. I understand. We're leaving the public hearing open. So depending on whether Jane can provide input um in that meeting or before or whatever that allow depends. So we're not going to schedule anything until we get procedurally. Michael, I can't just open-endedly say there will be a special meeting, but I can't tell you when or where. No, I was going to say just pick a date and then they can get a request for an extension to the next meeting if that wasn't I understand what you're saying. That's fine. Okay. And do you need to because it's a public hearing, we need to ask No, we're going to Yeah. If there's any additional then well we're still going up. Yeah.

Okay. Any more questions then for the applicants or have we kind of like enough? No, I think we did good for you though. I do feel that. I think I appreciate if I wasn't asking I'd feel pretty good right about now. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. You need to open it full of comment. Right. So, is there anyone in the room um here this evening behind us that would like to make uh a public comment about this application?

Okay. So, there is no one that right now at this meeting would like to I will entertain um a motion that we continue the public hearing for the Lamb Academy. Forget exactly what it is. 80-1 Lime Street until the February meeting. So moved. Moved. Is there a second? Second. Second by Jane. Uh by Mary Denise. Denise. Looking at Mary Joe and I'm saying Denise. All in favor? I opposed abstain. Okay. So this will be continued then to the February meeting. Thank you. Okay.

All right. So we're down in the hour here. We're We're pushing our limit. We can do it. But we can do it. Yes, we can. You can do it. So, with this this old business that was 80-1 line street and then could be 11 seaside lane at this point be 11 seaside lane. Application to remove and replace pavilion all within the existing footprint. application in the town of O line. This is quicker than

um this is my first time coming before you guys. So um I think you were given um in plans we sent it up to Cam because it's obviously on the water. This is White Sand Beach. Okay.

The existing gazebo pavilion that's down there, it's been there for quite a long time. Uh, the town would like to take that down and put in a new structure. So, this is the DP comments that came in today saying it's fine. Okay, let's see what we have here. Okay, this is the right file on this thing. We're not increasing the size of the structure or anything like that. Basically just keeping it as is. The only difference is that we have to raise it because it's in the flood V14. Uh so we have to raise the bottom of the roof line. Um so other than that under the the height restriction I you know whatever that 35

total height of building probably 18 ft with the roof um and you know four posts on a roof and a concrete slab. So but the existing footprint in in the existing and tunnel through this construction. Uh no we went out to bid we received bids where we haven't you know okay done anything yet because of approval. Okay. We'll do like the demolition some of the side work, you know, drop it here. Uh the post.

Eric, when do they plan on getting the construction done? Uh as soon as we get through all of our program. We'd like that. We want it done by April 30th. Separate question. But the bid, you guys want the bid? Yeah. Municipality for the construction. Well, it's budgeted. It's budgeted. Yes. The the town over the last two years is has set aside money for this. So, we don't have to, you know, we're not looking for more approval. It's we need the zoning and building approval. And then So, the bid's already been awarded this. No, we haven't awarded anything yet. We just it went out to bid. We received four or five bids.

Um, so now four posts. They are. So these right they'll go down I think it's 30 feet total that post or the beams are 40 feet in length. So it it's overkill I understand that but we don't have any what wants us to do. So So there no changes since the presentation we got from DACA. Yes he did talk about it I think at your last meeting in December when this was set. So yes. So that's who was doing the Is there power to the structure? No, there is no current power to the structure proposed. We would I would like to, but I don't think it's going to be able to fit in the budget, you know, because there's power at the bath house that's over here. Yeah.

So, there was a discussion to possibly put that in. It started there and worked here. Well, there's also the issue this is the whole reason it's doing this is because it's in FEMA. So, any anything you have would need to be up above elevation funds would have to be up on, right? So, I mean that's that's like a wish list, but whenever they do anything down here, they I guess they run an extension portal from the bath house. So, but that's not that's parking wreck. So, it's a big umbrella. Yep. 200 basically $50,000 umbrella.

Big umbrella. There'll be a new uh ADA ramp from there's a current ramp. Now, it's wood. The the platform or the concrete pad will be lower than what's there. So it's lowering, you know, the ramp length, you know, whatnot, but it'll be a for concrete ramp, ADA accessible. Um, you know, and so now it's SEA compliant and DE said it's okay. Yes. Now it's ADA. And what are you doing for seating underneath it? Just have table. Yeah. Probably two picnic tables that'll, you know, they'll purchase some nice picking tables and put underneath there. Is that like a little coupon this thing? This thing's lacking some curvature.

We're trying to keep it as low as possible so the neighbors It's a wind issue. I mean, it's a wind issue. It's It's low, but it's ugly. So, I wonder if there's a way to like make it look better. I think we got a really detailed report. Yeah. When we were looking at it, we went over it pretty close. So, I'm ready to make a motion. I am. I am. Yeah, I'm ready to. So, um business. So I'll make a motion to approve the 11 seaside lane application. Okay. Second. All in favor? I abstain. Okay. Project is okay. Well, thank you. Good luck.

We'll chat tomorrow. Yes, exactly. All right. Good night, everybody.

All right. Good night. Thanks, Eric. All right. Where are we? Okay. Receipt and setting of public hearings for new cases. We got a plate full. All right. We have case 26-1 special permit application 29 Smith Neck Road. Application Fed 425 square feet addition to existing caretaker dwelling RU40 zone and within the gateway conservation zone. John Kenny, applicant. Um, what number?

261 29 Smith neck. You have anything? Well, we're proceeding sitting here public hearing. I was going to let Bob talk about it and see what you want to do, but I have the application in front of me. In the interest of time, if you could give us a uh brief overview, that would truly be appreciated. As you're not the last item on the agenda,

I hired a a young engineer and he he went to a wetlands meeting for me in Madison. Yes. And he did the public hearing, you know, by Zoom. He goes, "There's the house. There's the driveway. There's the pool. What else do you want to know?" Perfect. See you at the public hearing scheduled for It's a 5.5 acre parcel. We're adding 4

33 square ft um to the house. Um, just for reference, here's the addition is in green on here. Um, the existing houses. It's it's one building that's connected by breezeway. Um, the property record card shows it as three separate structures, but it is connected. Is it a single dwelling or is there more than a single dwelling? Yes. But they call this the caretaker guest house. And this is the main house. And this is a accessory, but it's all connected right out through here. Covered breezeway or

Yeah. Yep. Built in 1968. How many square feet is it? Um, just from my memory, probably going to be refurbished. Yes. Um, I have it in my I feel like I should ask. No, you should. In my statement of use, I have it um identified. Was it on your lot coverage map done? Um it's um two existing residences on the property because the property record card. One is 3,946 square ft for a single story. Uh yeah. Okay. And one is uh 2,8 uh square feet

for a single story, right? And you're adding 432 to that one. Yep. Single story. So the total on that one is Yeah, it goes up. It's It's right here. Got it. It's just for the record. Eric, what's our schedule looking like? I mean, next month we've got Well, next month we've got the regular got the regs and you got

Academy if they come back here. Um and then we've got again the things we're receiving tonight. Um again, we've got three different special permit applications here. One of which is for the lime uh apartments uh single family dwelling, which we're going to hear from next, and the others are sort of backed up behind this. So, how many of these three that you're receiving you want to set? Well, we can we can do this one for February, right? You can probably do this one for February. I mean, so let's My suspicion is given what you did or didn't hear tonight on the regs is that maybe the regs aren't going to take up as much time in February as potentially they you were fearing they might, right?

So if the if you have as many comments next week month as you have this month, we'll go through them rather quickly. You go through them pretty quickly. So you can probably schedule as many of these for February as you want. But I think you have space on your fe February on your February agenda at this point in time. Well, okay. Well, let's start with this one. Let's start this one. So, I'll take a motion that we set up receive this case 261 and set the public hearing for the February 2026 meeting. By Mary Joe, second second by Michael Barnes. All in favor? I. All opposed, abstain. Okay, sir.

6,300 square f feet. Yeah. on a single story. And it's over 4,000. That's why we're here before you. It's Yeah, we're getting good at this. But it is it we're squaring off the building essentially. Yes. So, I'm sorry. Just to reiterate, you said it it looks like three buildings, but they're all connected. This is connected by a covered medic. Okay.

Um we've gone to uh we've gone to health um have their approval. Gateway. Uh gateway um uh we are exempt

because it's existing. Why are you exempt? because it's a minor addition to get around. Um and and I specified that I um it was on our plan coastal boundary um gateway conservation zone. Um yeah, we haven't um that it just gets referred to them. Um for coastal boundary um we are exempt um per section uh 4.2.3 billion which is a minor addition. Um well you're not even in with the critical coastal resource setback line. So no no we're well outside the

five feet out but yeah we're three we're 346 uh.7 feet away from there it is five what are you five feet from the side what was that 55t from the side property line. Um yeah, 56 feet from the side property line. Yeah, this is the um um Connecticut River or the beginning of the Duck River. All right. Thank you. We're well outside the 100 foot um review area from postal jurisdiction line. Thought it was only 50. Thought it was only 50

from title wetlands 50 from title wetlands in oral jurisdiction line gateways interested in the 100 ft. I think I know the answer to this but will there be any uh you anticipate any any disturbance to existing topographic forms as a result of this? Nope. Okay. And how about the the windows that you put in this? Are they going to be um the new bird proof? Less birds flying into them material, whatever that's called. Yeah, the reflection. Thank you.

Um reduced reflection so that the birds don't see a tree reflecting in the window. Yes. Okay. Good thing there's not many trees in front of that one. No, there. And lighting. Do you know have any idea on that? What they're lighting? Do you have any thoughts on lighting? Um, just come prepared for next month. I don't know, but I'll ask the designer. Okay. Since you're coming back next month, don't spend. Yeah, I say let's just move it along so that way you can get home and next applicant. We'll see. I'll be briefer next month. No,

next month need to be a little more detailed, but I beg you, no one shows up. Okay, perfect. All set. See you next month. Thank you. Good evening. All right. Second item is case 26-2, special permit application in coastal site plan, 100mile creek application to construct a new single family dwelling with a total area of 6,113 square feet within the Gateway Conservation Zone. Alan Todd, applicant. Good evening.

Good evening. Um, good long evening. Yeah. Uh, for the record, Joe Ren, professional engineer out of Indigo over in Old Sbrook. Um, similar to the last application, be very, uh, very brief here. 100 Mile Creek Road. There's just a small single family dwelling on there right now, 400 some odd square feet. We went to zoning board of appeals to allow this to be built as a primary residence and then this to remain as eventually an accessory apartment on the property. We already have that uh variance in hand. So this application since this house is more than 4,000 square ft in the gateway zone uh and it's not just the house, it's all the structures on the property. So the two sheds are counted. We have a gross floor table here plus the 426 odds or 62 whatever it is for the accessory and then plus this it's a one floor um dwelling however it's a walk out basement so the whole basement counts towards your floor area. So the number of uh the house it's all listed here is like 29 and change on the on the single main floor living and then 1,900 and change on the the bottom floor plus the other um units. That's where we get up over the 4,000 square ft. Black Hall River just starts over here. There's a little tidal creek title wetlands. Uh we kept everything including all the grading and the septic outside of the 100 foot. Uh so we don't have anything in the 100 foot or the 50 foot at all. Um we're out also outside the flood zone. So we're flood compliant. Um we don't need any other variances other than the one I mentioned for the accessory dwelling. Uh so we're zoning compliant. We do have a coastal area management because that applies to pretty much everything. Um now um and so we have that in there, but we do have drainage around the house. There no gutters. So, we have a 3- foot wide

rounded riverstone drip edge uh to collect the roof runoff and um get it into the the coarse sand and gravel that's below. Um so, that's everything in a nutshell. If you have any questions, I can answer them or we'll be ready for next month as well. I'll just make a comment. Um just so other people are familiar, the town of Old Lime, this is a town of Old Lime property back here. It's about 2 acres on the Black Hall River frontage. This is a 15 foot easement that goes across this property to get back to this access point.

Um I know recently that these people I was hoping they were going to bring it up at ZBA, but I'm bringing up to you now because it's it's going to need to be addressed. They planted trees on they improved the landscape along the along the u stone wall where they removed a lot of brush. But the town has not done a good job of maintaining the 15t road that goes to the back of this property that that goes to the inside of this uh interior lot which is owned by the town of old lion. So they recently planted some evergreen trees here and right when they planted them I tried I called the selectman trying to tell them that hey somebody should call them and let them know that they just planted all those trees within the 15 foot rideway of the town. So that's going to at some point have to be addressed.

Yeah. Is that a rightaway? Is that under the conservation commission? Um it's goes into it's it's not the property has not been maintained by anybody. It's not okay. So so um it's actually an old dumping ground. There's substantial vehicles and different things that are back there. However, I just want to clarify that there is a road that's supposed to exist. It's not an improved road currently. I'm just bringing that up because I don't want to snag. I don't know about the word road, but there is a rightway and the owner knows about the rightway and and we've done everything around it to preserve that space. So, you physically can still walk from the road. Right now, there's trees that are in in the improved road. Right. Well, in in the improved road of way.

Correct. So I'm just saying you only need three feet to walk. So yeah, but you can't preclude that the town may ever be able to use this deed right away, which at one time is in essence 15 ft wide because it was a road. Yeah, probably the easiest thing for him to do is just put it over the driveway shift if he wants to do that. But I mean, I probably wouldn't want to share a driveway with the interior lot if I didn't have to. No one uses that property. No one knows back there. I know no one does now, but that's cuz people didn't know it was back there. Yeah, it's there are buried vehicles. It's the old dump basically, the old town dump. So, it's other than being having some title wetland frontage. It's I know.

I think the point is that if we have an existing rightway, we don't want to lose it. So, we want to make sure that the site plan comes in. It's in the deed and it's preserved as open on here. But presently, it's not because he just improved trees on. Well, we want trees, right? We can get on the right way wants trees. Well, no. Half the trees just moved. Have 15 ft. That's like as wide as these two tables together. So, even if he has a tree on that side, there's still plenty right there's a right of way. We need to make sure the right of way is shown in the map. What gets what the right of way gets used for will be entirely for separate people to worry about, right?

All you guys need to worry about is that nothing that they are doing interferes with the use of the right of way. that that is the limit you that's what we're looking at is the point actually the purpose of this application just because the house is over 4,000 ft nothing that's more of a civil matter not really you again you're demonstrating you're you're not proposing anything that is in the right of way otherwise interferes with the right of way so as long as we can look at your plan and say that then that pretty much finishes what we're going to be doing here okay yeah we were very careful to to work around that we understand it's there it shows on the survey And it's it's it's open other than trees. I don't know, you know. And it goes to gateway. Did you say that? What's that?

Did you say it goes to the gateway for review? This will go to gateway for review. Any referral that comes through here for this type of application should automatically go to Gateway. Um because the house is over 4,000 square feet or the the gross floor area on the property is over 4,000 square feet. So that automatically triggers um the coastal regulations of your your zoning regulations which the only reason why they're necessary is because of gateway. I think it's an unnecessary regulation by the way. So you know that so you know that the windows will be

all that stuff. We were in front of gateway all the time. I know all the so all dark sky compliant, full cut off lighting, non-reflective glass, all the propens down lighting is full cut off and dark dark sky. Dark sky compliant, right? Well, we um we're more than 100 feet away, too. So, they don't really have if the house was inside the 100 feet, then they could be more particular about that stuff. We're outside of 100 feet, so it's more of a courtesy more than anything else. That's why I was saying how that the gateway has implications of properties that are further away from the Connecticut River because it says in its tributaries and Black Hall goes all the way to the highway. So, let's have a several miles.

Try and focus minds here, folks. We're in 926 and things to do. So, let's um I'll take a motion that we uh receive this and schedule it for the February meeting. Second. February 2. I'm just got one question. Can will we hear from Gateway by then? Yes, we should hear from Gateway January 22nd. They should take it up at that hearing. Thank you. Thank Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.

All right. And the last one uh is case 26-3 special permit application and coastal site plan 77-1 and -2 Lime Street application to construct two buildings containing a total of eight residential dwelling units MFR zone Lime Academy apartments. They're not here tonight as you can probably tell. Um again they were originally contemplating the the buildings in the front which been there for like many years at this point are eight and eight. They were going to do duplicate that in the back. Um they turned out to own less property than they thought they did. Um after the wetlands approval

after they had to go back and modify the wetlands approval. Yeah. Um so they are only proposing four and four instead. Um, again, they're not here to sort of argue their case, but up to you when you want to set the public hearing for on this one. I would probably say we should put this one to March. Yeah. Okay. Take a motion. Did we set this receive and set it for March the March meeting? So move. Mary Joe second. Second by Mr. Fiano. All in favor? I opposed. Abstain. Okay, that's in Marcus. Okay. So, we moved the election of the officers for this year to this section of the meeting.

Uh, do we have to do it with all the members? Like, do we need to have all the me? No. No. If you're not here, you get the role anyway. Well, technically, Michael, you don't actually get a vote because it's only regular members who get to vote. Um, so that's what I'm saying. Sure. We tell the other up to you, but I mean next meeting he and Jane are not going to be here and you guys need you need officers between before now and March. So I'll dial in the next Oh, I don't know. I'll dial in. Okay. So, do we need to make motions for people right now? You know what? We're getting we're getting a lot of people who may not be here next month. I want to just add that. I didn't know you. vote. Well, Jane's not you're not how I will call in.

That's what your alternates will do. That's what your alternates are for. Yes, but they don't get to vote on officers. I'm talking about on No, I'm not. It has nothing to do about the holder. I just It feels like a lot of people just not just a couple out. So, I can try and call in because I I'm not going to Oh, you're out, too. Yes. So, we have a forum. We can we can vote. Yeah. So, starting at the bottom of the ticket, I guess, Miss Marsh. Um, do we do it in abstentia and say congratulations when she returns or Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I'll make a motion that, um, Jane Marsh for continue with secretary for the commission. Second.

Second. Okay. I'll make a motion that we go for you for uh, chair. Well, we're not to listen. We got a vote here. I thought we just did. No, we didn't. for secretary. Now we're doing for vice chair. Now we're going to uh vice chair. I would like to put into nomination the name of Denise Savageo as vice chair. I second. Second. Okay. Now we move on to that coed possession position. I nominate Paul Orzel as chair and I second.

Oh well. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, with that slate, um, all in favor of the secretary, Jane Marsh, Vice Chair Denise Savage, and myself as chair. All in favor? I opposed. Stain. Okay. Congratulations. I think Congrats. Should be a good one next week. Oh, yes. next month. Be a doozy, as Hazel used to say. Hopefully our tires aren't slashed outside. Okay, two more things. Um, minutes.

We have the approval of the December 8th minutes, which I read and make a motion to approve. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Second. Is there any discussion? All in favor? I I Okay, so I guess we can adjourn. It's not on here. Can we do it? It doesn't say adjourn. You can always adjourn. We adjourned at 9:31 p.m. Eric's been here since 8:00. All right. having taught on this like just Thank you everyone.