Open Space Commission - Regular Meeting

So, you got to mute your phone, Suzanne, and then I think you're good to go. Okay, I'm muted. That is so crazy. It was having one every other time. I remember that meeting like an alarm. It does sound like an alarm or an insane teapot. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Turn it down maybe. Yeah. Or take a speaker all the way down. And then maybe sit on it. All right. So now I'm going to leave and hopefully you guys are still going to be able. These two are going to capture everything. Okay. Great. Can you would you mind shutting the door? I got it. So, Bill must not be coming either then. Right, too. Are we all set then, Suzanne? I'm all set. Yeah, we're ready to go. So, what time do you have? I have 503. Call the meeting to order 503. Um, I'd like to ask uh if someone would m make a motion to amend the agenda to discuss conservation easements after the prairie landing agenda item. So move a second. I'll second. All in favor? I um have a motion also to approve the minutes of the February meeting. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the February meeting. Second. Second. Second.

Uh any discussion on the minutes? Any questions or anything? Okay, so we have a vote. All in favor of accepting the minutes. I I will abstain here. Abstain as well. Okay. Very good. Public comments. Do we have anybody other on the line other than Suzanne? Okay. So, let's get into open space business. So, um Ann pointed out that next month's meeting partially, uh overlaps with the zoning commission hearing on Paul's Road, which I think a lot of people are interested in attending. So, there were two options. One would be to start this meeting an hour earlier, or the next would be to have it the next day at the same time. uh and um there this room would be available for that. So um any thoughts on what people would prefer what you believe that discussion and I let you do discussion because I hope you realize that you will be chairing that meeting. Uh no I didn't first time you go. Um, yeah. I mean, just from a personal perspective, I could do either, but going from a meeting at 4 to 6 and then a meeting from 6:30 to God knows when that's going to end kind of a debt. I totally agree. That was my feeling. But if the if Thursday works for others, I check the calendar. Works for me. Yeah, I take it. Yeah. That's okay for me as well. Okay. The

tent t I have you in there anyway. So that's So I will contact Michelle. She has the room tenatively penciled in and I'll contact her to confirm that we're going to change the date. So we be here at 5:00 on Thursday. Um, make a motion to move the meeting from the 9th to the 10th. I'll second. Any discussion? All in favor? I got Joan and sorry. Um, Evan. Yeah. And second. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so we we had an FYI workshop. Um, did you attend it? I did. Dan, do you want to talk a little bit about it as a former secretary and an attendee? I don't know if there's anything new, but Right. Um, it wasn't terribly new, but there, you know, there's always something that, you know, I probably have heard and forgotten. Um, for me, I actually didn't realize that you have to come out of the executive session to vote on something. So, that was kind of a refreshing. And, um, but mainly it was uh it was pretty routine. Um I think that the fellow who was presenting you know very open to people contacting if they had any questions. um you know as as I remember the previous ones I've been to um the emphasis was on you know really don't schedule an emergency meeting unless it's really really really an emergency

and that's not something that this commission typically has to do I was I had a question on on sitewalks um you know if we were going to go look at a piece of property or something that would have to be a sk a scheduled meeting, right? And is that do I understand that no business can be um Yeah. because I know the wetlands commission had all these sidewalks and then we, you know, we stand there and take a vote, right? And it was I'm thinking, wait a minute, I I'm not sure this is kosher. Well, so it all has to do with whether there's a quorum of presence. Exactly. And um and then see there was some discussion about whether the quorum number is based on all of the members or just the voting members and his he was leaning towards it being all of the members. So we have 10 members, a quorum five and um that's so I guess it would kind of depend on that. Okay, that's a good question. What counts the quorum? I was always under the impression it would be the majority of the voting members which in our case would be four. Do you have Go ahead. Well, I just one thing because I did some reading after I I sp I forgot to go to the FOIA meeting. Um but uh that there's two the spe the um special meeting I think it was in a regular meeting. There's a difference in wording between how quickly post minutes. One says calendar days and one says business days. Is that that's correct? Okay. Because I went in on It's really all right. Yeah. So that's a good point to bring up too young for your

information for my Yeah. Then I won't bug you so soon, Greg. No. Well, the point I was going to make is the April meeting will be a special meeting because it's not schedule on the uh schedule that was okay. Previously published for the year, which means the ma the basic difference in terms of the actual media itself is that you can't alter the the agenda. So like we made an an adjustment to talk about conservation agents. You not be able you would not be able to do that in April. Think of everything we might want to talk off limits. So what was it posted? How many days now? Um it's I think the regular meeting is seven seven. Yeah. Seven business day. I can't remember which is which. Yeah. And then and that's good. And then the special meeting is calendar day. So couple extra days. Yeah. Okay. Potential. Yeah. I'm not sure what I will I'm so I'll be away from the 2nd to the 14th. I'll talk to you before I leave about the agenda. The agenda. Okay. Okay. And just so you know, I'll be here in May, but for the May meeting, but I won't be there for two weeks prior. Good. We're a traveling group. I think Russell put on the most miles of all of us. Yeah. How long were your flights, Russell? 17 hours all the way to Oh my gosh. Did you go Australia or something? Just Well, he did the same neck of the woods. Yeah. Tokyo, New York to Tokyo. got to go again to five flights.

Were your flights good though? Not bad. That's very good. This is good to know. American Japan Airlines and that was Cambodia. I asked Russell if he visited the white lotus. I um so moving on to open space stewardship. I'm happy to report that apparently uh we have got the the budget as submitted was approved basically as is including $75,000 into the acquisition fund. Oh, terrific. Thanks for making a positive comment in our prehering here. Oh, it hasn't. So, when is the capital budget? The capital's way off. Okay. So, that's interesting because the last year when I went to the hearing that was all brought up at at once. That may be the case. Yeah. Okay. No, that has been to discuss. So, is there going to be another uh Yes, it's later on. I'm not sure exactly when. So, they just approved your the operating expenses if you Okay. And and when does when the town meeting usually held, but is that May or May? Yeah. May 26th. They have to meet May 26. May 26. Yeah. Pretty sure. Okay. I did that. So, um I was sorry. Well, after a little longer. Yeah. Well, I I I I was told by the first select woman that the board approved that. So,

right. So, they So, they make a recommendation to the board of finance. Is that how it works? Correct. Yeah. So select budget select person's budget now and they come up with all the numbers and changes it. So we'll talk about that. So it's about that. Yeah. The first which is good. We'll we'll talk about that in an executive session later. Um, so I think I sent you all kind of a expense sheet on on where we're at this year. Uh, we're we're we're doing pretty good in terms of stewardship funds. Um, we have 53% of our our monies left. Um, we will have some expenses coming up and we also have uh $5,600 in carryover funds. And thus far, our two stewards have worked. Peter's worked 101 hours and Isaac has worked 70 hours. Um, so, uh, we're doing fairly well there. I also think I sent you a a land stewart report where Peter Peter basically pulled back in his hours uh because he was helping his wife after her surgery. Uh Isaac uh after not putting in as many hours the previous month is was back walking the trails but uh he doesn't have a chainsaw. He he mentioned um that earphones that there was a tree that had fallen down. So, one of the things I wanted to discuss is is and unfortunately Andrew is not here is if we want to consider providing a chainsaw Isaac with a with different

materials. We wanted to provide him with a small chainsaw so we could do some of this work so we wouldn't have to use a axe for it. Um, in that regard, um, I contacted Bill Gerard who did the game of locking. that you attend. Yeah. And they're doing a course in April sponsored by the Kaggraph and Park association. And I talked to uh Alex at CFPA. He thought there were two openings available in the class. He was going to get back to me and check on that. How much does that cost? That's a good question. So among the things I asked him and said, "Do you have room for our people and what would it cost?" Uh and he said they're putting it on for their stewards. They're not charging them anything. I said, 'Well, what would it cost subsidies at all? Let me get back to you on that. Uh so I did the course under the opaces of the lime land trust and it didn't cost me anything. The other thing I just want to mention is that I have a um climbing saw that I'm obviously not using anymore. Um, and it's a small steel uh chainsaw. Okay. And if um but it needs some it needs some work. So, but I'm happy to um donate it to the commission so that Isaac can use it if he if if he can get it repaired. Okay. Well, I I think we can certainly repair it. think that I'm I'm a little bit premature in that I haven't talked to Isaac and I don't know how comfortable he would be actually running the saw. If he's interested in running it, which I hope he will be, you know, see if we can outfit him something obviously with the training. Uh in any event, Peter's already he's interested. He has a saw that he uses. Uh so that'll be great. And is does Isaac have

um are they are they both under the town uh insurance? They are. Okay. there. And what we've done, Evan, is is when we've given Isaac materials, uh, we had him sign basically a form saying, "I realize this is town equipment, and if we're right to leave town service, I'll return this to you." So, we would probably do you could do the same thing with your chainsaw. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm happy to just donate. When you say climbing saw, like it said, what kind of caliber tree could caliber? It it it will cut a 12in tree. Okay. And that got a I think it's got a either 12 or 14 inch bar. It's just a lightweight smaller version of a regular chainsaw. So, um I just don't do any climbing anymore. Yeah, I don't think he would have to really handle anything that's much bigger than that anyway. If he did, Peter's got a little bigger saw. I I found it very helpful. Um I did some volunteer work in lime clearing trails and um after a day hauling a regular chainsaw around um you know climbing climbing up the hill and down and and uh it takes its toll after a while. But um so the lightweight saw was um you know it was one that I could hang on on my belt and climb is is it a gas part? Yeah. Sometimes when you get walk so then Ann can't see us when we go out. Okay. I think they're talking about the back now but I can't tell. Hi. Hi. Somebody there. Hello.

Who's on? Who can who can you hear us at all? Or Susan and Steven Bates have dialed in. I don't know if it's us you're talking to. Uh, yep, it is. And, uh, that's fine. We just we didn't know that anyone was there and we could hear you speaking. So, if you could mute your phone, that would be great. Well, we weren't speaking, so then it's not us. Oh, okay. Well, that's okay. That is strange, but Okay, fine. Thank you. Okay. So, so as I mentioned, that that'll be great if uh I I think the cost is not going to be prohibitive even if we have to pay something. And I think it's well worth it to to have Peter do that and he's interested. The other the only other thing I wanted to mention and I don't know if that comes before your your board of finance or or um whether um it's done in house is that we do have some funds uh that were appropriated for multi-year project on fairy landing um that we would use in the fall for the last spring as part of this project. So we hope to carry those over. Do does sport finance vote on their carryovers? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So the select and approve the carryover. Yeah. So finance too. It was realize that it's a project. Yes. It was we were we've always been upfront that it was a multi-year project. Yeah. And there's a reason for delaying as well. Yeah. Obviously we're we're it's on a seasonal cycle which was by nature not fiscal years and and uh I we understand we had a couple of

work projects which I unfortunately was not able to attend between travel and coming back and getting sick from the travel but I guess Logan did a very nice job on the bridge at Bartholomew. He did. Oh yeah, that was that was really That was a great endeavor. Yeah. And and the and the weather um cooperated by um freezing the water hard enough so that they could drag the they could drag everything across the brook on the ice and not fall through. I mean, there was there were some heavy things going across that brook and I thought, "Oh, somebody's gonna go in." thing and uh and it just it it was amazing all the equipment they had too um to get the uh phone calls into the site from the truck. Um they had some sort of a trolley um that was I don't know where they got it but um I think Eversource Oh yeah. They donated loaned it all. Had we I mean it turned Yeah. obviously used for y that type thing. So yeah, you could get it through all the narrow trails and and we did have to do a little clipping, but um it was very well organized and very well carried out. Great. So it looks as if we in fact we need another bridge worked on on Bartholomew. I think I sent you all a little thing on that that it it there's less construction than basically repositioning what was already there. And so Peter will would want some help in doing that. So Andrea set a date of uh Saturday, April 5th uh in the afternoon. And from the picture,

basically, um, you need to move this over here to where it hits dry land. And then when you when you get over here, you can walk right across. And so it's um I I'm not sure I know where that is. I Yeah, I thought it was I did too. I was like, what? I'm satisfied that I was at Walmart today and I ran into Peter and I was like, are you kidding me? That bridge those kids put in we and he's looking at me like, "What are you talking about?" I didn't know there were two bridges. I didn't either. Bartholomew. He put this other one in. He said Peter did. He put the one in that moved. Yeah. Okay. And Andrea is quite keen on getting this squared away because that'll be our first hyper. Yeah. So, it it's basically going to be be I don't know what the plan is for that. If you can um put a chain and pull it or get I don't think we all want to get in the water and hoist it, but raers might have to and Peter says he has. So it it's it's it'll be a busy weekend. Andrew wanted me to mention that the next day Chris Vagos who was a biologist for US Fish and Wildlife Service is going to do a walk Champlain North behind old linemen basically to point out invasive plants to the high school environmental club and maybe they'll do a little bit of clearing but it's mostly for her to basically help them identify plants when they're out out and about which it'll be that'll be a nice thing to do as well. Sorry, what was the what was the date? Was it so that Saturday or Sunday? Sat Saturday the 5th is when the work project to move the bridge will be.

Okay. Okay. And Sunday the 6th is the the walk with Chris Fagos at North. Do you know what it's uh Sunday from 1 to it's 1 to three on both days in and the other thing I wanted to mention is is the I think the kids did a very nice job building a bench on Brooks Meadow and they used your plans and trust so that was very Andy as well. That's all I have to say about about stewardship really. Andy, would you like to talk a little bit about Andy? Sure. Um, so well there's like a bunch of different things to lead off with the most exciting which is that um well I had um a lot of very helpful advice from Evan and Fred last Thursday I guess it was. Um, and while we were on site looking, uh, we came out onto the state property there and there was the beaver. Oh. Oh my. Leaving a nice wake carry. And um, everyone thinks that maybe the lodge is is somewhere um, across like pretty much directly across from that bench to park. And that it's not the classic lodge that you see in pictures and um it's more like the Mississippi River beaver that dig holes in the bank and they they actually um have a the same entrance underwater entrance because of the ice, but it's it goes up into the into the bank of the river. So I think

that there looks like there's a tree root some tree roots and he's go they're going under the tree roots and up under the tree. So that's very exciting. The entrance on the on the land is not exposed to predators. They enter but and they need access they do that because they need access to their food supply during the winter. Uh, so that if you get a, you know, a foot of ice, um, they need to be able to get out of their house and go underwater, go fetch a a log or a stick that they've cashed in in the river bottom, and then go back and feed everybody. So, um, that was exciting. But we were there to look at the Atlantanthis trees that several have already come down and the ones that have been girdled are, you know, they're they're weak trees to begin with. So concern is that they're going to come down either on top of one of our new plantings or laying across a path we need to get to our new plantings or to get to an area where we might want to put in some more And so I think we discussed the last meeting the idea was to get some bids. And I just wanted um Evan Fred to take a look and agree and sort of help me describe the project to the tree service folks that came. Is there any risk of anyone a tree falling in the building? No, I would say not on the road. Yeah. No, not that I I can tell. It's still, you know, if it fell, first of all, it would never fall towards the road because the slope is towards the top.

Um, but in any case, well, also the that piece of property faces more or less south and that's where the majority of the limbs on a tree on that slope are going to be facing the south. So, the weight will pull. So, the weight the weight will pull. But if we get, you know, a a big hurricane in se, you know, September, October or August, every tree, I mean, when you think of what happened in the 38 hurricane where whole swaths of forest were down, didn't matter what size or Well, yeah. I'm not sure um you know plan for the 38 but um I think that one of the things I wanted Evan and Fred to tell me was um you know whether we wanted to leave the wood on site. Do we want to chip it? Do we want to take it away? Um, and so the consensus was to leave it on site, cut it into chunks that could be rolled by people if we need to. And then Evan suggested putting it, you know, perpendicular to the slope so that um, yeah. Yeah. Um, so that it could help with the erosion control. Actually, it's a good idea. Yeah. So, um, so that's the plan. And I, uh, had reached out to four different tree companies, two of whom did quite a bit on it when I told them about it. And, um, two of whom did. Uh, so I had Willox Tree come out. They got $1,500 for the project, which I thought was extremely reasonable. Oh, yeah. That's wicked. And then Oracle Tree came in a little

higher at 1,800, but still great prices. Yeah. You know, since we spoke, I actually talked to Mark about getting tree bids. Okay. She mentioned another outfit that actually we were bidding on a project and he was one of the bids. Wow. So, you might want to ask more about this. Okay. And it's a very simple project. still have to do is practice a few step to chop them up a little bit, right? But what was interesting talking to was, you know, it's going to be all work. They can't get any kind of equipment besides in there and they can't really climb them because they're dead and you might want to check this guy. Well, he he did so that job he did. He did do it. Okay. I would hope that they hope they checked. He had sufficient insurance and responded. That's I'm sure Buffet did. Yeah. What What job was it? Uh was at at the school. I'm not sure exactly the specifics, but do you know who he was or who he is? I can't remember the name. Okay. All right. How much? The court come in for 3,000 and he bid it for 600. Geez, she love his Well, that was the reason why Middle Sex tree didn't want but anyway because they keep working. Yeah, it's a it's sure it's it's a simple job, but on the other hand, um you you you hope when they do it, they're going to do a good job because I had a tree company that cut down a tree for us on cut down the big pine tree on on Horsene Creek for us uh at no charge as a as a service, but

they dropped it right across the trail and left there. Had to go out there. Thank you so much. clean it off the trail myself. So sometimes you get what you pay for, right? I mean because the other concern is and there's I think three or five of the trees that if they dropped wrong. Um we definitely take out that we wouldn't be happy. Well, we just planted a whole bunch of things there. So we want that those to grow. The majority like these of these trees are up the hill. Okay. Um closer to the road. Not near, you know, not super close to the road, but away from most of our planting. Okay. Um but three of them are much closer to where the blueberries are and where the ground cover is. And there's a there's a native there's a little apple tree there. Oh. That could easily get crushed. Who knew? It's a native apple tree. It's volunteer. volunteers and um so you know we want whoever is doing this to be to be aware of what they're doing. Hope hopefully um Jason and his crew know how to drop the tree in the direction they wanted to drop. They're pretty good. They Yeah, they've done a lot in our area. So yeah. Yeah. I I I remember when I first came on the commission, they were kind of the commission's goto arborist. built built on. Yeah. Well, they'll also like you'll be there the day that they come. So, you know, you'll you'll be able to sort of make sure that nothing that isn't supposed to be touched isn't touched. So, we did mark the little better orange. Oh, did you go did you go back? The only thing I had at home when I went down to the oven was white.

It really didn't show up very well in some of the the bark, but um it's been effectively worked now. Um well, you you our discussion with Eric and Yes. So, two things before I get on to that. Um, there were some smaller trees closer down towards the kiosk, this entrance to the property that we talked about having Peter or Isaac, you know, take down because they're they're pretty manageable. They, you know, need that big. Yeah. Four to six inches. So, get the pros to do everything we have. And also if we could get um when Peter or Isaac do the cutting if they could cut it at the dates, right? A couple of looks like somebody went after a couple of trees with an axe and they're about two and a half ft high. Yeah. Look, I mean that that could have been Isaac. And then um but he was he was just he's just learning. Yeah. And um and maybe they should um they look like they were going to resp sprout. And um so we u we should have have a some way of painting them painting the stump once it when it's right when it's cut, right? Um so the other aspect of this is that you know I was looking at the survey and um also had just in the back of my mind been wondering about the you know permit aspects of the wetland setbacks and um we had we had a permit um that we were sort of working under the opices of and it's it has expired

and um basically almost the entirety of the property is the 100 foot um review area. So, um, so I was talking with Eric now about, um, you know, what the next steps for that would be and also spoke with Mic really on the human weapons and I think what we've pretty much decided to do is to make, you know, request a new either a the permit to be reissued or um to, you know, get a new permit that will cover all the things that we want to do there. I Mike was saying and I think he's right that the way the wetlands regulations are written, conservation activities like taking out dead invasive trees are probably not considered regulated activity. That's something that's good for the property um as long as you're not bringing giant equipment in it, which we're not going to. Um but since we'll be doing the final uh spraying in the fall for the fragmitees um we should have you know our belt and suspenders on we're getting a state permit anyway but um that's the local regulatory authority actually put president state did um did Eric say that or discuss just an administrative. That's what we had. And Mike thought that it was entirely possible that if they come to do a sitewalk that they'll just offer us that Okay. on the site on the spot there. And so it's I don't think anybody anticipates it being

problematic. I think that the one date it back did you say 11 years or so? Back when we first had Malcolm Mo that. Oh yeah. Yeah. And uh I I talked to Eric Knap when we first uh undert undertook the project to address the fragies with a combination of mowing and spraying with pond and lake. uh and he wrote to uh the chair in the wetlands basically saying that we were going to seek a state permit and given that wetlands might might just basically defer to through to the state's review which included a a diversity check which led to us having the herpatologist on site. Yeah, I mean I think I think we've been pretty much by the book uh sound very well conscientious about our work there. That's very true. The law should be obeyed. Yeah, that's right. But this is a you as as Ann said, it's a little different when we're doing tree arbor tree work on the upland part of the property. And it it's I think it's a good idea to reach out to you too because it's very pro to do some type of minimal treatment in the future because money is not going to eradicate it forever, right? I mean, I I'm pretty sure we're going to have to do even if it's just, you know, individual guys with, you know, metal blade recorder type things. Um, rather than getting that giant vehicle in there, but um it it's yeah, it's it

never goes away really. But it's certainly looking good. And uh it does look good. Good amount of practice. Would it be I this is kind of like somewhat of unfair question. Is it would it be possible in the future to have a vendor u spray the limited amount of new growth that will come up without getting the big marshm thing in there? Um yeah, I think so. they can do with a backpack. Yeah. In fact, I think I want to say maybe last time there were some places where they had to have like a guy with a backpack because they couldn't access it. But maybe I'm definitely doable. So, I think that's pretty much it. We're going to I mean we'd like to use the carryover funds that for this year that we were authorized um for some of this but then we could talk also about the mapping expenses. Um but yeah the car the carryover funds we we have two carryover accounts. One is for stewardship, but the other is for this frag the fairy demanding project. And that money will basically hit almost exactly what we're going to owe uh this fall to Pond and Lake. So exhausted compos complete our our contract with Pontan Lake. I think they already use some of it uh for application to deep so they're not held up uh come fall. Mhm. But the the other the stewardship might could potentially for the tree removal. Yes. Between that and what we have in our regular stewardship, right? So we we do

have the money to especially if if we can well the $1,500 we can handle maybe even less than that if the arbur can do the job. So, but the important thing is to try and get this done before things start to leaf out and it gets more difficult to navigate the property for that reason. So, the the other thing I I'll segue into this and let you discuss this further is is um is it last fall that Michael met with a representative from Ottaban Forest Service. So there was grant monies available that Mike Curelia flagged substantial amount of money and and uh we sent in a letter of interest to them. They came out and looked at the site and we got a letter back saying that it was denied without prejudice. You know we could reapply. But one of the points they mentioned was that this property is not permanently conserved. So right they recommended a conservation to, you know, because as town owned property, there's really nothing to to prevent then the town if it needed to or had there was some compelling reason. It could sell the property to be used for something else. um highly unlikely in this case but um they their sort of standards are it must be permanently conserved and generally that uh a conservation easement in perpetuity. So, uh, we've been looking into how we place a conservation reason on town owned land and talking with the attorney attorney about that. And, um, one of the things that we'll have to do is, um, go

before many boards within the town government. Uh, so we'll be putting that together. Um I I so I talked with Eric Math a little bit about the process and we would certainly have to go before the Boris Swapman and get their approval and he's he thought I'm not sure he's done this so it's a little bit of a new area for him but he thought we probably should go before the planning commission basically to see that our goal in in establishing the easement is consistent with the plan of conservation development which I think it certainly would be and then eventually will have to go before a town meeting, right? It is. So, an easement is a conveyance of property rights. So, it you know, it kind of falls into the same category of selling or buying land and whenever that happens, you have to good advice from Erica. So, so we have a we have a good communication system here where I guess when we discussed this last time Karen related to her board of the land trust and I got a call shortly thereafter from Sabine saying we don't want to hold these we have enough to do we have volunteers we can't handle more so I I in talking to an I I reached out to the Nature Conservancy and I talked to Erica Anderson who works with Sarah Pelgro you know, and absent a lot of detail, I told them a little bit about what we were interested in. They they most likely would be amenable to holding up the easement. Uh particularly in that they already visit the town annually to inspect McCullik and it would not be a big deal for them check two other properties out. Yeah. And they just and they just lost one uh Grizzle Point. They don't they no longer own Grisle Point. Who owns it? What's that? Who

owns it? The state. Oh, no way. It's gone. I mean, basically, it it it moved um from its position in 1976 when they when they acquired it. Um, and it's they it's moved far enough away that they they've gotten a legal opinion that it that they no longer have any rights to it. And so it it reverts to the state. And so except the fellow who owns the black seemed to think that he could do anything he wanted with it. So that was a little bit upsetting. So it can it I shouldn't bring this off, but can it be sold? Can the state sell it? Um well, there's not not much to sell. Well, I know, but I mean, heck, a lot of people kayak would buy it. Well, that's facitiously speaking, I hope they don't sell it or do Well, they own I mean, they own adjacent property that they own all of Great Island except for about 40 acres. That's that that's is that has mixed ownership though, doesn't it? Yeah, it's the Nature Conservancy in undivided interest um with Matt and Martin. Okay. So the other the other thing too is the addition is in in beyond fair and leaning we talked about what properties what whether our properties are protected or not and um obviously McCullik is believe their conservation is on on the two Champlain North properties as well although they're not inspected. Uh, and we thought it would be appropriate also to if we're going to go through this process to to put an

easement on Bartholomew as well. I was telling uh Christine that I have a file on Bartholomew that was in a filing cabinet that's awall town hall here. So trying to find where that might be to just see if there's when it was donated to the town of the family if there was any language or whatever saying he hopes it would be remain forever perpetuity whatever yeah but you need some I actually pulled a D for coral and I don't I don't know But I can give you much. I'm kind of surprised. Was it a quick claim? Yeah. Quick claim. No consideration paid grant to the town of Old Vine. All my interest. part about conveying too property description and but does it mentioned to be conveyed for open space or just convey town conveyed to the town and that was from Adelaide and Dana Baron yeah think of these things so it's yeah unless Unless Unless there's some sort of clause in in the deed saying that it's understood that the property is to be held in a for in a forever wild state or something that was um

not protected. Not protected. And you look at the town of Graten that um had a piece of open space and they said, "Well, that's it for the open space. building a high school there. So it, you know, it if you're going through the process for the one property, um the the cost and the and the hearings and all that, it's easy enough to piggy back Bartholomew on it. So we'll go with that. So we have we've just basically discussed it, but it's appropriate again to have the commission vote that it would be in favor So again, he's going on both properties. Yeah. Would you like to make a motion? Motion to both wildlife refuge and for second. Christine second. Any discussion? All in favor? I oppose. Okay. Very good. So we can put on record that the open space commission is in favor of conservation easements being placed upon those two properties. So that would take care of conservation easements for open space properties. I I believe so. The one thing I wasn't Yeah. The one the one thing I I I I I would like to check on Fred and it could be a possible third property is is exactly what the situation is is with as I don't I don't know what that is again I because I find it really frustrating I can't find these files to look through them. So, so maybe if it needs that then maybe Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Makes sense to do

that. Um the other thing I wanted to to mention to get into is is I sent you some information about uh the website. Uh Ann and I have been looking at the website. Uh Russell went through it and made some good comments. Christine did the same thing. Um, I think there's a lot of good information in there. I think the site is as it exists today is really poorly organized. I have to apologize that uh when town transition from one platform to another, from one vendor to another. Um, I don't think any of the the boards and commissions were involved in that process. It was a small little in-house committee that did that and they made a lot of decisions on their own. Uh, one of the things that that one of the decisions they make that I I wish they had talked to us about beyond the actual organization of the site was um they did not keep uh a lot of the old content. The old site had all the minutes for the open space commission going back to when the commission was was um formed and that was kind of searchable. that's all gone. So, I mean, minutes exists in the town clerk's office, but obviously it's not as convenient to be able to look at them online. Um, I I sent you basically the notes on that we're looking at. Um, and and Christina has offered to do some writing. Uh, I don't know if you're interested, Russell, but anybody would would like to do that. I think when we start to to whittle down to specific pages and so forth, if anybody would like to do any of the writing for that, would be much appreciated. And Evan, I've talked to you in the past. If I could twist your arm gently to to to

write something uh about what would be the advantage of selling property to the town uh in terms of uh and and also uh to a bargain sale. uh why why might one offer a bargain sale to the town? Obviously, there might be tax advantages or whatever. Yeah, people should check with their financial advisor or accountant or whatever. Something, you know, we would certainly welcome if someone wanted to. Yeah. Enter into talks with us, write a paragraph or two on that. Okay, that would be terrific. Continue whatever we need. So, okay. And that kind of segus into into the other thing that that I wanted to talk about is is the the mapping. Um I know um that I did I sent I hope I sent that proposal to all of you. Yes. Do you want to talk a little bit about it and Russell? Um for very long this afternoon she did when we first talked before I left you know I asked him to put it peace meal which she did there's a couple things missing I didn't talk anything about pricing and timing just here's all the data we gave and see what see what come It seems everything I've looked at that he has done and he gave us some links for previous work is very nice. I mean he's very very skilled what he does and presentation wise and visually it's it's very very nice. So you know I have faith that he would would do a good job. Yes, I I I I I agree with Russell in looking at the work he's done previously. It it

looks really professional, really nice. Um he he gave us what looks like a kind of a two-part. Uh one part would be basically if you can do everything online, uh take the existing data and work with that. The other part of the more expense and that would roughly cost u about $2,600. Um I have a number of questions about what he's going to do uh that we would we'll discuss with him. And the other bid, roughly just a touch over $5,000, would be if he actually has to come out with his equipment and walk the trails and and mark those trails. Um, and so one of the questions I had is is uh clearly he has more sophisticated equipment than than we're ever going to have, but if we were to use our phones with a Venza or some type of other map, we walk the trails. Is there any way that that we could actually um generate that data in in a format that he can use to make the trails and and whatever you know a couple of a number of us went to a benza training uh maybe there's a different app that you can use uh that you can train us with but it'd be nice if we could do that that would save a substantial amount of cost for us. We have some questions there. He he made some comments in there too that I I wanted to ask. He talked about basically um that some of the the data uh in the town GIS system is is needs to be data need to basically be be adjusted and updated. I don't know what that quite means. Um, uh, he talks about some of the CAMA data. It's not populated, but I think maybe we can talk to,

uh, Melinda Crownfell, the town assessor, uh, about that. I think be a great time of the year for that because I think now maybe the next month or so is when she's works with the GIS vendor to populate the maps with the new information. Uh and as I discussed with with uh Russell at the start of the of the meeting too that one of the properties is McCullik is missing there and that's actually a property that we probably need to have him walk or somebody needs to walk because we've rerouted the trails and we need to adjust the parameters of the of the property to reflect the fact that six acres will be removed from that property. And also uh we got we will add in an equivalent amount or maybe a bit more of the Joseph parcel that was provided to the town as part of the great oak subdivision. So what he did ask him was in the text of his proposal he could do points of interest features very easily. He did the walker and that was something if we did it partially on a he had to do on something else. He wasn't sure because he hadn't seen the data yet. He wasn't sure how how that would be to facilitate kind of a finished product. So that's something we probably need to push on it to understand. Another thing that's that another job that we need to have done and and I don't recall but we discussed this with you Russell if you discussed it with Steve is is uh we had Nancy Merritt do some uh work for us in mapping drone mapping and so forth and she said that she gave us the files to begin to be as she called it stitched together uh to

make an overall image of both Sugar Laney and Bartholomew properties. Uh so maybe we can talk to him about what that would involve and what that may cost because I think I sent him the images on anywhere on that information and he didn't mention that in this meeting. So yeah, and I noticed I was telling Ann today and looking at uh at the town website that the town has the town hired uh apparently a couple new employees in the land of office. uh and there's a a person who was listed as the planning uh inland wetlands specialist uh in in looking at her background. She's a GIS expert. So we can talk maybe she consult with us either as part of her job or maybe on the side to help us which would be wonderful. Um the the uh we we talked to a high school student who did some work for us back when he was in high school and he did some some drone flights and images of Ames. uh and Andrea contacted him and asked him if he could use the the uh imaging that Nancy did at at Bartholomew and unfortunately uh his free GIS program was not able to handle their data. He needed an ARGIS program I guess which I guess probably runs into four figures. He was willing to invest in that software. Well, I think Sperry is a great resource and um you know, we just need to decide what the priorities for you are and what you know what you can do with what's already available and uh and then kind of go from there. So, one one of the

things we wanted to do, Karen, is is to revise the who's who brochure. U that that's a really popular brochure. I was talking to to Katie Balaka and Michelle Hayes. They each have like three copies and they hang out to anybody. Uh but the main map, our our our text has been revised uh for us. Um you you I think you will eventually want to add excellent I presume onto there. Yeah. And we need to revise the map. Yeah. And we we specific if you want to just make note that Yeah. A portion of Ames is now called noise and plus um uh Harbor Management is interested in having Nickn added onto there as a as a as an area for the town too. So we'll we'll we'll talk to Steve Perry about doing that. Yeah, I I know there because I I think mapping on the agenda just set out a thing and said what's our position on mapping and they're saying it's not something we want to take now. Yeah. You because you guys use uh Lisa too I believe as your your photographer. Yeah. So you you're probably where we we were and I mean clearly you can go with whoever you want but yeah I who did it I contacted u Carrie Chadwick from from uh Yukon Clare and she is the one that recommended Steve Perry to me and you could you could probably contact her together other names as well. Chadwick Carrie Chadwick she she's her office I think is one of her offices is in I think uh Hadam where the the cooperative extension service offices

are are you going to to the uh CLCC conference Karen I am not Is anybody from trust going um yes Um, I believe Olaf is going. I think Sabine might be going. I'm not sure about Ned. Ned went to the treasurer thing recently and you reported on that, but I I know that Olaf was was checking on Olaf is kind of one of your acquisition guys, is he? And who who is doing your your is I know Mary Deans is is in PR. Who's doing your like publications? Um, outreach is kind of Mary. Um, I know we I have um Jacob is doing a lot of um acquisition stuff with Sabine also. Jacob. Um, our publications are kind of, you know, I mean, I do a lot of it on the, you know, the notices and stuff like that, but beyond that, I I'm going to be kind of tangentally involved in a workshop there with Carrie, Chadwick, and if Sabine or wants to meet her, I'd be happy to introduce him. All right. and I'll see you guys at the at your annual meeting probably before the conference. Yeah. One thing on the mass since we're still kind of on that. It's not clear that you pick the second more costly that doesn't include all the first nonGPS. If you read the text, it's the same thing. So I wonder that's not clear from the part of this is not. So I'm thinking that 5,000 gets you the

top add. Yeah, it does. But but the first is existing data quality control. producing data quality control one more time. So, so the two the activity um they overlap. Yeah, they do. They do. So, I I and I that's one of the questions I had. For example, he he talks about existing data control. Uh he has that as an activity for both different price points for that. The map production is the same in both both. So, I'm guessing that it's either 2600 for a smaller package or it's 5,000 for both the smaller package and the GPS would Okay. Yes. I I presume the 5,000 would be Yes. It would include include the first passage 2600 and then right he would add his field collection to that which would make expanded work 5,000. Is that how you read it? Yep. So it just to make it clear, it's not 7,000 total. I think correct. 5,000 total. The bottom half is 2,3 correct. So yeah, that final section is half. That's a good catch. I don't think I would interpret it that way. So well, when I first read it again, I said I just looked at it this afternoon. Um, since they're repetitive, we'll have to make sure that he needs to clean that up a little bit. good way $5,000 first the GP it's actually quite a lot of work and and it's my expectation unfortunately is that it's going to cost us a little bit more than both those figures you mentioned he doesn't have some properties in there so there'll be additional work that we have to do which kind of segus into um according to

um the bylaws of the commission We need approval to to do any expenditure of $2,000 or more and this will certainly exceed that. So, it won't be cheaper. That's for sure. Yeah. Would you like to make a motion, Russell, that that commission approves me working with Steve Perry and getting a quote that would exceed that? Sure. Okay. Would there be a motion? Okay. I made it. Okay. Uh a second. Any discussion? Second. Christine. Christine, you guys got to speak up. Opposed. Okay. So, we we will All right. Was the motion to just motion to work with them again? The motion would motion would be to authorize uh the commission to expend $2,000 or more uh to uh complete a mapping project for all all the town open space properties. Okay. Okay. Yep. I didn't get that at all. I got this including all the little bits we have. Well, that's the other around town. That's that's the other thing I wanted to. Do you want to talk about each one? Yeah, but that and and Ann's kind of doing Ann is becoming kind of our ourarch not title search our research mall very exciting thing and um yeah it's fascinating. So, um, I asked the assessor, I was trying to get a list of town owned properties and sort of winnow down from the past what could potentially have evenness on them as a result of either a subdivision or um, you know, in addition to outright

conveyances of of um, and you know, it's it's um it's kind of Um there's a lot of ancient history left and not all of it has been documented extremely effectively. I was thinking trying to but um so I did get a list in fact that Melinda had and then turns out um Greg had as well the there's a list uh that Diana Atlas put together of easements in favor of the town line which I guess doesn't spec doesn't specify that it's open space that's in charge of them but I think that that has if if we looked at our job description that that's kind of what one of the things we're supposed to be doing. Um, I've been going through that list and you know the problem is some of these are so old um that they a they've changed hands I'm sure a number of times um from the owners that are listed now but also this the list of the PDFs on putting it into Excel in order to actually be able to work with it. Um and it's really just the tip of the iceberg I think. I mean I don't there's if I had to guess it's 35 or something um properties on that list and so I I don't expect to find you know 35 more but um in addition to properties that you know where we're holding the eman there are probably just small parcels of town land there's a number of parcels that the town owns in feed that

were intended to be open space, right? And when when was the state when was the state statute um calling for land set aside in subdivisions? It's a good question. It's a good question. Sometime in the 70s or I think that's an automatic thing that happens when the there's a subdivision number of blocks. No, it's not automatic. It's up to the It is up to the planning commission. If a developer comes in with a subdivision that what the statute says is that they he may not shall and that's the that was the issue at the um neck road on neck road on 156 right by the highway. um they didn't want to do it, so they didn't have to. It was also a if if if the property wasn't useful to, you know, to the town, they could do a a fee in lie of property. Oh, okay. Which would um do if that's ever been done, Evan, was that Do you recall if that's ever been done? Yeah, it was done on Benny Road um years ago. Um, I remember a piece of property that um it was too it was steep and and um it didn't it wasn't going to be useful to the town as open space. So um so it goes to the new owner for a fee or it goes to goes Yeah. I I guess it goes to the new owner. I'm not sure what how they whether the lot was simply sold or

held. Got it. Yeah. So that that money that would be paid for the fee in lie of of open space that would go into the acquisition fund of it. I think so. Okay. Yeah. But you're saying all kind of stuff state I think the state statue is what kind of statue is that shaller man it's goes on in is what goes on in Hartford and that's another story and I and I think I'll so the land if there's land reserve for open space it need not be given to the town could be given to an HOA as well Right. Yes. I had a question about that in your researching. Have you come across what is the status of uh HOA land that was set aside responsibility with what's the intersection with open space with that? I don't know that I'd have to ask either Eric or you know that quite as much track between Hill and that's an interesting question. You know, I in in in contemplating that further, I would be willing to see if we can have Mike Kerry look into that for us, Frank, because there's a a number of properties that land, even if it's deed to the HOA, it should have the same conservation protection as given to the town. It does in the case of farms. Yeah, it does. Well, so my question, but we still own it. Yeah. Association owns it. Is that so the association is a nonprofit? Because my understanding is that you either have to be a municipal educator or nonprofit to hold these. No, not these. I think the own. Oh, they actually own the land. Okay. All right. But I mean these two properties, it's

interesting. Testing Hill the Bucks Hatches Hill over land trust and it it actually makes a bigger open space area maybe there should be some hiking trails on there. Well, it I I I recall the net road property that that unfortunately the the the gentleman that was a staff person for the Connecticut River Gateway Commission suggested to the to the developers that they reserve protect a certain amount of land directly on the river uh and give it to the HOA which the developers jumped at. Uh neither Suzanne Thompson nor I or the Gay reps were even told about that and both of us were kind of upset that Gateway didn't ask for more land to be included in that set aside. The only other thing I I I have to mention before the we go into executive session this this Friday is the last day to register for the CLCC conference and I know Evan is going, Andrea's going to volunteer. I'm going to be going on behalf of Gateway. Joan, we signed up. If anybody else is interested in signing up, let me know. You can register. You're going to pay for your registration. But Zor is going to close pretty quickly. I teach that. So, it's kind of expensive to pay for a whole day, but yeah, three hours. But I'm not able to read those. No, I'm not. Okay. Question. So So that's all I have for the for the regular meeting in case anybody else has any business they want to bring up. I I have a quick question. Okay. Sure. So you're going to schedule John to look at the Bieber receiver?

What was that? Are you going to schedule John to come? I think it's John the Bieber. Yes. Thank you. I I but I did call Ed and I was had a phone call conversation with him. And what did he he had he indicated he thinks it's also the the where the water's coming up is too high. Okay. Okay. I I Andrea uh was was out there. Andrew was out there last week with Peter looking at this spot where where the bridge needs the bridge needs to be readjusted and asked her how does the to see her look and she said the water's high but it seems to be flowing but I will talk to John Egan about coming out and taking a look at it maybe if you're interested Fred you the way it's set is the water will be higher than it ever has very high marks it has been in the past okay that's why it's be well above you know because of what because of the either activity around the the the pipe now pipe up and that will determine the height. I I you know I'm I'm I'm not I'm not a physics guy Evan but as as Fred mentioned the the terminus of the pipe by the road is higher than the entrance and he said that was deliberate but I couldn't quite grasp doesn't have to be quite that high. Yeah. Yeah. So he just has to lower the the outfall. Yeah. comes out. Yeah. And and so we we did fortunately we we uh entered into a one-year contract with them. So any work that needs to be adjusted, whatever, will be at um Beaver Solutions expense, not that expense. So, and he did say he was going to come out and do an inspection. Uh and

he said since we have a contract if um there's any other issues with beavers in town he would look at that without extra charge. I don't know that we have any now but becomes a second tank in here. That's something to keep in mind. So I think we just should do that before the beavers get active and start building the dam comes up. It's going to be easier to work on. Well the the beavers will the beavers will only m will maintain those um as much as they they need and once they reach that level they they'll repair but they're not going to keep building the beavers I understand but right now there's not much worse so it's easier to work there once once they build it up to that height it's going to be fairly deep it's like two and a half or three feet if they I mean and and obviously In much colder clims, they need to make it deeper because of because the ice gets to be much thicker and then they they lose and if the ice is all the way down to the bottom of the pond or stream, then they can't access their food. So they um but so the we don't we don't have that much ice. Um that would be unusual certainly these days. When is it that they start to become active? All right. I was saying as soon as Well, if you guys saw a beaver Yeah. I mean, they're out. Yeah. They're actually I guess question. Okay. Yeah. And I don't know that they aren't active all winter if there's no ice because that the only reason they need

they need to do that is for predators. You know that they go under the ice and look for food because the predators can't reach them and then they go in the under underwater entrance and so they're protected from predators pretty much all year long. You think we could arrange that? Yes. Yeah, I'll give my Yeah, I I'll give him a call tomorrow. Fred let you know. Okay. So, um that's all I have for meeting. So, someone would make a motion to go in executive session. I'll make a motion to go into executive session. Second. I'll second that. I I if you could, we'll give you a moment to get squared away, Suzanne, and shut up.