Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

Hey, Peter, why don't you start us off with explaining what's uh what's being

Sure. Um, so one of the challenges since we um made a good faith attempt to sort of reproduce the fence along the um east side of the property was getting the column and the ground and the rail proportions correct. And we this group and and and uh I have talked a few times about how best to do that. Um and by looking at sort of the the proportions that exist um trying to maintain sort of some visual consistency as you go um sort of north to south. Um we're proposing that we do in fact some of the I think were recommendations that some of this committee did um separately when they um when they took some measurements after the original um the first version of the replacement was up. So I wanted to um and most of those we continue to agree with but I wanted to sort of walk through them. Um column one which is the northernmost column um is correct as we see it um correct both um in the relationship of the rail to the ground as well as the height of the rail uh and the column. um column two and actually the last page of the photos is probably the easiest to see um sort of how these um begin to sort of vary in scale to the rail that we're trying to match. So column two um

I'm sorry Russ. So what you're calling column one is post six. Post six. Yes, I remember we had this guy.

It's inverted from the diagram here. Um but the northernmost column um column six in this case actually but column column one in terms of the priority for making changes um we didn't um see that we saw that that was accurate and and reflective of what it needed to be. Uh similar with columns two and three. Um column four however as you again as you move south um begins to reveal the gap at the bottom rail um the proportions of the column um especially above the rail seems correct and appropriate um and visually sort of as it should be. But um in order to keep the rail um parallel um you can see that there starts to be a gap at the bottom that needs to be replaced. And we talked last time I think about whether LOM was an appropriate solution for some of this. There were columns I think that we agreed needed to be adjusted but there there was an opportunity to use LOM and seed and and whatnot. Um uh so column 4 uh would be corrected where the gap between the bottom uh rail and the ground um required narrowing. column five. Um uh in order to sort of put it in proportion to the rail as the as the first four columns um are, we're proposing that we reduce the column height by 6 and 1/2 in, bringing it down to 60 in. Um then the southernmost column uh to bring it down seven and a half inches to bring it back into scale with the rail, but also um rather than move the bottom rail and have it out of alignment with the other um rails um to again repair it with lom and bring it

back so that the bottom rail matches the the clearance of the other parts of the fence. Is it is that bottom rail at the same elevation? In other words, is is this bottom rail the same elevation as that? Roughly, it's roughly slightly lower because of the way the land drops off, but but it's an attempt at being linear. Yeah.

Peter, I have a few questions. For column six, you specify that the uh needed lo would reduce the gap between the bottom rail and ground to 5 in. Um you have si similar estimates requirements for columns four and five.

Um it would need to be graded so that that it's not sort of abrupt. Um but the goal is is to have all of the rail where it's appropriate through one columns one through four um varies slightly but it's mostly 5 in and allows for mowing and trimming and all those things and it should be the same the subsequent sort of way down. So we would we would um layer that in so that the clearance is no more than five inches. Okay. So we could I hope specify that the lom is to be to be graded but in in in no event will there be a gap right um greater than five in

right I mean that's actually except for the column height the gap between the bottom is one of the most visually sort of um noticeable issues and um but that would that would be sort of a way to make sure that the railroad remains parallel with the ground um but it doesn't reveal growing gap as you go south. And then just for completeness of the form, yeah, you didn't check what is attached or included. I know you have photos. Um is is that it there was no brochure or there were there scale drawings?

No. Um I I don't have that. I just had um you know what the architect had provided us previously about recommendations. Okay. So we can check photos and then um it's not signed. Um should be signed. Um Joshua on the last page. We don't have our copy. Oh, I have copies. You can have um Joshua. There you go. Maybe we didn't get old pages. Oh, okay. This has this has

and then in addition to this obviously one thing that we've been waiting to do and it didn't make sense for us to do before we got the column height right was do the winter repair um because there are separations in the in the canopy of the columns that need to be tightened and sealed. All right. So in so where the um where the the the cap pieces of ease of the columns come together, winter has sort of forced them apart and we've been waiting to repair that as well and there'll be no visual change to it. It's just that we're going to seal those gaps.

Pet I have one more question. I don't have the measurements in front of me that I made before, but uh on your post six in the image that you've given us, it looks as if maybe this is just visual because I don't remember it from the measurements. It looks as if the distance between the cap, the top cap and the top rail is greater than imposed five. And it it it looks that way, especially in the last um page of drawings. But that may just be the photograph. Have you measured that?

I have actually. And that's and I have your measurements, Carolyn. Um uh and it they're a little hard to um compare because in the re in the recommendation that you'd made earlier, you and others um it talked about um lowering the bottom rail. So trying to get that proportion correct is a little tricky. But when you um when I um measured it with our builder um and recommended it to the to the architect um trying to keep sort of the the the topmost part of the fence and the cap um to within 12 inches of each other puts these measures put both of them in so that they're proportionally accurate. One is six and a half inches to lower it. The other one is seven and a half. I think that's what I recommended. I'm my question really is should the cap on post six be slightly lowered in order to minimize a discrepancy with post five and post four?

Um is there no discrepancy? Uh well co column four we're not recommending uh lowering except by adding lom. Column five we're talking about taking it down by 6 and 12 in. Column six. Wait I'm on post five. You want to go on the same you're using different I know. So, so, oh, you're talking about the old talking about the material that we have. Um, you're, as far as I can tell, looking at what you proposed and and our measurements, Caroline, there was no recommendation that we make changes to the exit, lowering the rail.

I I I I remember that that I recommended no change, but now I'm just wondering if my measurements were accurate just because of the photographs that you're providing us. Yeah. No, I I think that your measurements were accurate. I think the issue with that particular post um and the rail is the or the correlation to the ground. No, no, no. I'm still on saying that the diff the gap here between the rail and the top doesn't look to be the same. I think that that's a function of the photo. That's not borne out in measurements. That's what I wondered. It's It looks quite clear in the photo. Carolyn, I'm sorry. Are you talking about 06 or is this an actual photoial?

Yeah, I'm sorry. The question uh is is the potential alterations. This is actually leading to the discussion of how much column should be lowered if we lower them. My question is whether the top of post six should needs to be lowered or not. Um I would say no. uh not by the measurements that we've taken and second actually that becomes for us the reference column for the rest of the fence. Thank you. It may just be the photo pe this white here is just a tarp in some of these

No, I think that that is actually an early attempt at um seed and um hay. Oh, okay. Let's say that the edge is so straight it looks like a white tarp. Very very straight grass. That's the shading. Yeah, that's the shading from That's the shading on the drawing to show you where the loan showing where the loan's going to come to. Yeah, I got you.

Okay. Um, any further discussion? Any comments from the audience? Is there a motion? Probably should not make it. Do I need to recuse?

Um, anyone want to give it a shot? I'll I'll move that we approve the changes to the fence as presented in the uh CFA application with the understanding that the loan that is to be added be graded. But in no event, leave a gap of more than five inches between the bottom of the rail and the and the ground. Mhm. Um and also just with the clarification that the CVA application, excuse me, be modified to indicate that there were photos attached with the with the with the application. Martha, when you or Dean, whoever keeps the official copy, you really need to keep two because this copy that Peter passed out does not include all of the check boxes that appear on the

copy that you circulate. Yeah. So, you got to insert a page, okay, showing those those check boxes. So may I make an addition John just yep to your motion as stated with the understanding that post six as shown in this image um that that the discrep the seeming discrepancy between the top rail and the cap that appears in the image of post six is not um in fact correct. So I just want I just want to make sure it's remeending that the the um the distance

is the distance between the top of the picket and the top of the cap cap is the cap in post six is the same as in posts uh four and four and five. Thank you. Okay. Motion is just sitting there waiting for a second. I'll second it. Okay. There. No further discussion. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Extensions. Carolyn abstains. Peter. Thank you. I think we're set. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Well, we appreciate your great work. Your your attention to all of this concerns. It's been I feel like family now, right? And and we understand you will be coming back October or November. Yes. Um I think sooner is better. We'd like to have the same sort of early conversation with the zoning group um to talk about the changes that that are being proposed for the museum that I think um this group and the and the town general would be really interested in hearing more about

sure that would be wonderful. So Martha I think has a note for get Peter on next month's agenda. So you are you are family. You keep dropping in. Okay.

Okay. Next on the agenda is chocolate here. Yes, there she is. Hi there.

Good morning everyone. Good morning.

So, this is regarding open flag signal shop. Here's the paperwork that um the owner of the property signs. I don't know who needs to get that. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that's that's one thing we need to clarify in the form. It just says signature of owners, but we do need from the property owner. Yeah, he does. He did sign it. That's great. Let me just go through the form, Bren. Um, you check type of construction is commercial structure. You're not doing any changes to the structure. No. So it should be signed. Oh,

the flag. Okay. I just But the flag is a type of sign. Okay. Okay. Um so note that change nature of work to be done is new. Hasn't been approved before. Has not been approved before. New even though there has been open black signs there before.

Right. And uh estimated start date and completion date I guess could be today. Um and then um the instructions that required information for work to be done includes um specific materials to be used. What is the flag made of? It's attached fabric. Is it

I mean I mean we've got pictures talk about the types of fabric that we would consider um it looks like it's polyester polyester f yeah I would say polyester yeah because like like a nylon type polyester right okay And did you send around a picture of the Yes. We need to we need to check that also on I sent it with all the meeting agenda.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So with on my phone too, but phone with those details um

is there discussion question? Um will it come down at the end of the day? Yes. It'll only be on the building from 11 to 5 Tuesday through Saturday. And obviously when you're not open, the open sign is not correct. It's taken down. Yes. Um is is there a sign already there? I mean, how many signs does this property have and how many is allowed? That's the only sign.

We have a chocolate shell sign. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's permanently on the building to one sign identifying the property, but this one just says open. Well, that's what I'm I'm just the general question for a business or is is there a limit to the number of signs on the any establishments on Long Street? There's another sign. There's another the Vitality Spa has. It's not out quite as consistently. I mean, but they have a flag, too. And they have the they have the same thing. Vitality is gone. And then they have an open sign. Yes. Homework collective basically two signs,

right? Yeah. Homeward collective had we approved the open sign for home collective and like the Florence Gris Museum has what two signs? In other words, is there is there a president or here's what our guidelines say on density and number of signs per property. That's what I'm asking.

In reviewing CVA applications for signs, the HTC will consider the number of signs on a parcel to avoid excessive clutter in the district and not approve more than one sign identifying the occupant of premises. So, how many ancillary signs would we allow on a property? It's left vague. It should it should avoid excessive clutter. I'm thinking precedent here is why the reason why I'm asking the question is precedent.

The signs have been there, you know, for for a long time. Yeah. You know, so that's the president, right? Does the under new owner sign constitute a sign or that's already taken down? Okay. Oh, you mean the one that was inside the window? The window. Yeah. So, basically, you'd have the chocolate shell sign and then the open flag. So, we have two signs, right? Right. The size of the sign is 3 feet by 5t. the flag. Is that consistent with the other flag? Yes. Perfect.

There any further discussion? Let me move that just so I can get all this out. Um, include all my notes. um that uh we approve the application for an open flag with the condition that the flag be removed at any time the store is not open. Uh and with the requirements that the CFA application be amended to indicate in paragraph three that this is an application This application does not apply to commercial structure but just to the sign that there are no changes to the structure. That the nature of work to be done is new. Uh that the estimated start dates and completion dates be um indicated is today. And that's in paragraph six. And that the paragraphs eight with the description, we add that the open flag is polyester. That and in paragraph nine, we indicate that photos are included with the file. So that's the motion. Approve. Second.

Deb seconds. Further discussion. Any comments from the audience? All in favor? I I I and thank you for making this practice now legal. Right. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day. You too. You're you're you're right. As we as we face specific issues, there may be occasion to reconsider. I was going to bring that up later in our discussion.

Okay. Um, next up is 72 Lime Street.

Hi. Hi, everyone. Hello again. I'm back. Um, we have found a new builder that will keep the design integrity of what we initially wanted, but we'll build it all in wood. Um, we're working with Atlas out of Old Sabbrook. Okay. Um, so really same specs, same location as last time, same look and feel, but in full. Um, yeah, you have a photo showing horizontal words, correct?

And you have vertical. Yeah, their drawing the photo is the accurate representation of the clapboard. Their drawing is like a dimensional dimen it was for dimensions. That's the correct one. Correct. Okay. So, each clapboard will feature like a 5 in return which will match the 5 in return of the clapboards on the house.

It does look the same as the very similar. starts off. It's It's very very similar. So, the distance is the difference is that uh the the clabboards would be wood versus the vinyl. Correct. Um you mentioned Okay. I see the window boxes. I think um on this last photograph you provided there, is that already in place or No, it's it's just photoshopped.

Photoshop. I just don't know how to do that. So this would be the view from Maple Lane. This is the photoshopped one right here. Correct. It's It's still visible from last, right? Yeah. A little bit. It is. Yeah. Did we have discussion last time about vertical versus horizontal sighting? We did. We did.

I think because that's our previous manufacturer only manufactured something in wood that had the board and batten. Correct. This new builder can achieve the horizontal clapboards in wood. The previous builder could only do it vertically. Mhm. And your house is our houses are horizontal. Okay. Discussion. Great that you went and you you've got um you've got shutters on the house. So you've proposed shutters

for there will be shutters flanking both windows on the front of the shed. Black to match the house. Okay. Oh, I see here. Yes, of course. Motion Doug. Um, is there Yeah. Any further uh discussion comments from the audience? I'm sorry. There we go. The size stays the same. Size stays the same. Correct. Sure. And the size is indicated on It's 8 by 12. It's indicated on that dimension. Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep.

Do the shingles match the house or similar in color? They'll be white. Same as the house. Oh, the roof will match the house as well. Yeah. Okay. Uh Carolyn, did you have a motion? We accept the uh CFA for the shed at 72 Lime Street as submitted. Are the one other question or that the So the cla are the same width? The height of each wooden piece is the same height of the clapboards of our house. they can adjust it as they're building it.

We should note that the reveal. Thank you. The clamor reveal is will match the um Can we add that? Can we add that as an understanding to your motion or where the stipulation that the collaborates match the house and and that the roof matched of the house just for clarification there? Second. I'll go ahead. No, Russ. Go ahead. All right, I'll second. Seconds. Any further discussion? All in favor? I thank you very much. Thank you. Of course. It is going to be It's our first time, so we're we're happy to work through the process. Great. Awesome. Thank you guys. It's going to look great. Thank you. It is.

It's going to be great. We're very excited. Okay, next is uh Erica.

Hi, Eric. Got some progress going on there. Just inside now, pretty much. Have you moved inside? Oh, no. I'm hoping for Christmas. The contract says January, so they're moving along. Well, tell us what you're what you're proposing here.

Okay. So on the DFA today is the pool, the pool fence, um the hedge, the stone leading up to the front porch. And Martha, you had a question about the um walkway. the walkway. But if the driveway is approved the way it is, it's only going to need a couple of those stones that I that I took a p, you know, it's a faximile, a picture of the stones leading up to this. Yeah. Just a granite one or two probably. And the driveway, which is um we're proposing an asphalt apron, which I guess is pretty much in concert with what exists already in the town. Um, and the actual driveway is a ribbon with grass down the middle, gravel with a grass strip down the middle hopefully. I mean, this has been a very interesting project doing it within the tariffs and

extra hard copies if people want photo. So, that's currently and I think I sent you a picture. So, I sent you a picture of the proposed fence. Is that the fence around the pool or is that a property fence? The the wooden fence. Just trying to understand that we're not doing. Oh, you're not doing that. No, I think that's from an old Is that That's not happening. Okay. Doing hedges all the way down. Okay. Instead of that hedge. Yes. Great. That's along the property line with the person we just

from the back 72. No, from the back of their neighbor Conrad's. From the back of Conrad's almost all the way. There's a tree that sort of delineates. It's not going to go all the way up to the iron um fence because I think it'll look weird to just meet the iron fence, but pretty much to their house. I don't need to point. Um, so pretty much to their house there's a couple of trees that it will sort of run into and then there'll be a gap between the hedging. There's a hedge there. Okay. What kind of hedge is it? Is this a picture of the actual hedge? I mean the plant you're using. Yeah.

Is this is that is that that's one of the hedges? Yeah. That I picked out of it's a combination of the viburnum and the arbor vid. And the arbor vid will mainly be between Conrad's house and my house where they're so close to me that we want, you know, something tall there. And how what height would they reach? Um well, they reach whatever height. I mean, they Yeah, they grow. I think we're we're putting in six or eight foot is the plan um to start, but they grow pretty quickly. I just think it'll look so much better. I looked at the I looked at a couple of fences and I was just like this I'm going to want to plant in front of this fence anyway. So

I think the hedge makes more sense. So the fence question that I had then is I'm seeing the pool and I'm seeing a fence around the pool. That's just for the pool. And what is that? That is metal mesh with um cedar uprights, cedar posts. And it's just a very simple pool fence. It's sort of a typical thing that you do. It's what I had in my pool on Blood Street. It blends into the landscape behind the edge. Is there a hedge around that fence or is it No, no, it's just fence. Fence pool. Got it.

Yeah, you have all the I feel like you might have some old stuff then. Is it just drawing? That's Yes, that's the pool. That drawing has the pool, the proposed driveway, the turnaround for the driveway. And there go. Where's the turnaround? This in this image. No, that's just an image to show you what the um pool and the That's as close as I can pool and the um what the fence will look like. The only fence that's going in would be that fence on the whole property. tough to see from Lime Street. You're not going to be able to see it from Lime Street.

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of hidden. And also, you're not going to be able to see it from Maple Lane because this um I should have delineated. There's the hedge starts here and goes all the way down to here. You have another Oh, I see evidence. The hedge starts at the end of Conrad's property and goes almost all the way down to the That's the fence. That's just for the pool. Got it. It's a lot of little things that we're doing here. The head starts here. There. Yes. All right. So, and goes to about where these trees are. Yeah, that's exactly right. Actually, very very long hedge.

So, to the group that where the arborites has the um the arborites would just be the mainly here I think. Yeah, I understand. Okay. and certainly because his house is very it's sort of on very close. So we don't So the pool is really not going to be visible from Maple Lane because you're there's there's already a hedge there. Yeah. That belongs to your neighbors. Yes. It won't be really right along Maple Lane and then you're putting in another one along your hedge at your property line. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So where the hedge is right in the back, right? There won't be anything in the back that's visible from my It would be visible from the neighbor on the other side up here

unless there's a We also are planning on doing a shorter head. I'm sorry. Oh, sorry. We're all over the conversations here for the records. We one. Yeah. So, Russ had some comment or I was just trying to understand where the hedge is, which I think I understand now. Uh on the um let me get my directions right on the south. Is there a hedge or anything being proposed for the north property line? Your other neighbor? Yes, but we haven't decided what that is yet. But that's not part of today.

It's not part of today. Yeah. It's not going to be as long because they have a lot of hedges already, right? Um, so it's really probably only going to be as long as the house. It's 28 feet. Well, let's table that since. Yeah, it's not on here today. Decided on that, right? That's what we're trying to And I also want to talk to Henning and Amma about it. So, we have Ed Hedge. I think I understand that. We have a pool that's being proposed behind your house with a fence that's shown in the photo. Um, which is a cedar post fence with describe the the mesh between

material. It's a metal 1 in black mesh so you don't really see it. It goes Yeah, I got see it. There's nothing, you know, there's no cap. There's no cross um wood at the top. It's just the posts post. I had it on my house in Blood Street and the lovely thing is I had a beautiful view there and you couldn't even really it goes away and then and then your proposed is I'm trying to understand the turnaround that you mentioned. Is that the proposed parking on this drawing or is there something else that I'm missing here?

Okay, let me just look at it. Okay. So, this drawing, this is um potentially parking for two cars if I was having a party. I mean, I'm going to park in the garage. Um and so this is, you know, this is uh the gravel driveway. This is gravel. It's a gravel square. And then this leads up to the front porch, which isn't quite built yet, but the foundation is there. And then just um granite steps. And then the granite step entrance to going up to the front the wood porch.

The wood porch entrance. Got it. Eric closest to this isn't the best drawing. I really should have had them do it better. It's smaller so it's hard to see. Teeny. I know. Yeah, it's really hard to interpret. Okay. So, are those the steps? Those are the steps. Okay. Got it. Up to the This is the porch. Those are the steps up to the porch. This is the driveway with this turnaround or potential, you know, parking and and all of that would be gravel.

Gravel. Yeah. And then this strip right here leading from the port. This isn't Yeah. This strip right here is um plantings in front of the wood garage. Right. That is very small. Yeah. Where are the plantings? Yeah. So, this strip right here in front of the garage. Yes. So, you drive in. This is additional parking. Turn around. This is the garage. And then this is planting. And hopefully an espal.

Will there be planting on the line street facing side of the house eventually? You mean on the front camera are you asking about and where is the viburnum hedge who understand the viburnum hedge viburnum and arboriday go from this line Will's line all the way down to I believe it's this tree and what is the what is the relationship between viburnum which is not evergreen and arboriting which is evergreen the viburnum I think that he's chosen is I wrote Um, Novaks are working on this and I think it is evergreen. Oh, really? Maybe there is a type that is

most red burdens aren't, but there may be a straight. Yeah, I know. It's We were looking for native. So, and would they be alternating? What's the pattern going to be? You know, I have to be honest. I'm not really sure um what the pattern is, but I know the arbor vid are going to be centered around this area. Um, I mean, I just took those pictures, which is Will's Conrad's house because it's very high. You can see right into my backyard from the second floor. Conrad's house. The one we just Oh, it says it on here, but it's very very

So, it's the second one in. Don't show any mechanicals on here. The mechanicals were already approved and they're all behind the house right here. There's a strip of mechanicals. Generator as well. No generator. Erica, you're never going to have a generator. Well, I have a pull out generator. I'm hoping it works. Um, one question on your steps in your front porch entrance. Um, remind me, does that require a rail or not? In other words, do you have a is the elevation such that there's No, as far as I know, it does not require a rail.

So, you wouldn't you wouldn't need a rail as you're coming up the steps or you're not proposing. It's I think it's only one step. Yeah, I'm seeing two little I'm not saying you need it. Yeah. No, I I think it's only I think this has already been approved by the town, right? That's Well, that's I'm not I'm just making sure if you have a rail, we need to know what it is. But it sounds like you don't have a rail or need that. I have it. I just know how many I thought there were four steps. This is just an example. Stone. That's just a Yeah, I was trying to find a picture. A single stone. I'm seeing two on one stone. One solid solid granite because there's two on here. And where are the mechanicals right now? Because on this drawing,

I'm sorry again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, but I can show you. multiple conversations. If that were it, I say why David, could you just state your question for the record and then Dev and then Carol? Uh, I was asking her whether this photo of the pool is actually her house at Blood Street and it's not. Mine is prettier, was prettier. Okay, view. You say that mechanicals were already approved, but where are they? because all I'm looking at is this drawing and they're not in here.

This strip is the mechanicals and there will be um have you seen the siding that we have the wood siding on the garage? On the garage. This will have the same wood siding which will you know it's sort of like a fence but it goes around. So you're saying they're in this strip right there. Okay. So what what is it? What's there? Heating and cooling. Um, propane tank. Okay. Is pool equipment if we get approved for the pool? I was going to ask, is there room for the pool equipment? Yes, there's room for all of it. Is it in this? There is no room for This is why I don't have a generator. There is no room for a generator there. See,

is there are these mechanicals in that indent? So they would not be visible from the street and I understand. Yeah, they won't be visible from the street. They're in that little area. This is an entire hedge. They won't be visible from the street. That little bump out right there. Got it. Mhm. Yeah. Okay. Which is the garage, right? Yeah. Right behind the garage. Yeah. And is there a wall around that or No, there will be a wall around it. That's that's the same as the um garage siding, right? Have we approved the wall around it? I believe so. I mean, I don't remember discussing it, but that might be my memory.

Um, it was on the plans and mechanicals were approved. The location of the mechanicals was in the October 7th approval of last year. It said everything else as approved on the as on the plans. So, that was included. Did the plans show specifications for the wall? for the wall. I I don't know. It should have happened. I assume our general details, Erica, our general rule of thumb is that the height be enough so that what's behind them is not Oh, yeah. No, I don't want to look at them. No, it will definitely be as high as they are. Okay.

But if that needs approval, that's something that can be done at next month's meeting because I don't think that's going to be started. I think because we're talking about pool equipment in addition which is new, right? I think we had we had the pool on the last plan, didn't we? I don't think so. So So if the pool is new, then the pool equipment would be new, right? So where they go and the shielding of that and the height and that could be part of that whole discussion is what I'm thinking. Okay.

Yeah. Everything fits behind here. And I guess I I mean I guess I assume that it was already approved that we just have a Can you see that from Lime Street? No, you can't see it. You can't see it from Lime Street. You're not going to be able to see it from Maple Lane. Certainly not going to be able to see it from Lime Street on this end. Yeah, little bump. Um, this little Have you considered cut what are they called? The Belgian blocks for apron. You have

We originally were considering it. Yeah, we were originally considering it, but because everything has gone up about 20% in terms of the, you know, that I'm having panic attacks over the cost of this house, right? I had questions regarding the driveway. Um, specifically a concrete apron,

whereas your house is really not historic looking. So I think you really in my opinion you need to have something that really makes it historic because you can see it from Lime Street driving up and down. So I think the coffee apron would is really not appropriate. You just saw earlier somebody else coming in with Belgian block. I think the grass strip that you would propose is great but not to have a concrete apron. It's it I mean also you have to understand we we don't like as uh we approve it only because like if it's resurfaced it's resurfaced on something that's that's already here but usually for new

it's not my first choice either obviously I would love something else I mean I can look into the cost of the Belgian block I don't have any idea what the cost is um yeah I mean I I Are there any other options for an apron concrete have it colored and I don't know natural natural stone natural stone it's just an apron that you're talking about right it's not a big expense so the cost is not going to be big amount amount of it does anyone here have an idea of how much that cost to have an apron and block.

And then the proposed parking that's on there and there's a vehicle that is all crushed stone. Right. Yeah. Or peace stone. Right. Right. Well, Erica, I mean, we'd appreciate if you're coming back to to check on that before we approve the the asphalt apron. Um, so you said you would be coming back with other The only things I'd be coming back with at this point that I know of that you would have to approve is whatever that um fence will be made which is cedar currently, right?

Um, hiding all the mechanicals. This is a fence on the on on the back side. But is there also a fence on the north north side? That's the drive. That's the entrance to the drive into the garage. Right. There's really no other fence besides the pool fence and then which I haven't really been calling a fence, but right. I mean I I'm confused because this is a side you're talking about putting the hedge on. Yeah, I'll show you the direction.

What are you What if anything are you thinking for this side? We are thinking about I want to talk to um Henning and Amma about it before and I just got in touch with them. We're thinking about a small because they have so much shrubbery. We're thinking about matching their private on this side. Okay. But a small expanse of it, not a lot. It's not going to go all the way down because I love this view. I get to see their pretty house. You know, it's just like a privacy part because that's my bedroom in the end. Right. And have you have you given thought to landscaping? It's not

this is all the daffodil field. So there'll only be grass where the cherry tree is and beyond because this entire area is a daffodil field that we'll keep as a daffodil field. But alongside the front of the house, which would be behind the daffodil field, you said there will be landscaping eventually. We, you know, I hope to put some landscaping on the on the front side. Yeah. Right. We think that's important. Yeah, I think uh yeah, there have been comments that several comments that some softening would be would be great.

I think once I mean we don't get to say I have to plant X, but just in general that landscaping also you might consider relative privacy to the pool, right? because you've got, you know, from your neighbors. And then the only other question I had relative to the pool is, do you envision any kind of hardscape or sidewalk or not sidewalk, but pathway from your house to the pool area or is that going to all be grass? Um, currently it's all grass. I'm just thinking

if we do anything it would match the front granite. So you might want to think about like if you're going to have a path there, you know, have that part of the pool. Yeah. Well, the pool approval, what can the pool be approved today or is that something that still would need to be considered? No, because getting into October ends up being I think it says shown that's shown here. I'm just trying to get through my There are so many little things that need to be approved to continue with it. We'd like to get the pool done with the finishing of the house instead of next spring so I don't destroy the driveway.

I mean, this is this is the sort of apron you are envision. Yes. Very simple. And what are the isette stone? Um, it's currently priced out as blue stone, which is what I had in my previous house, but I sort of like a paler, less hot stone. So, I'm looking for other stone that would work, like a lighter color. The blue stone just burns with your feet. Yeah. And Erica, I remember probably maybe I misremember, but my memory of the discussion of the window frames that and the front the live street facing side of the house was that they would be a dark color, a dark gray or and now they seem to be white. Do do I

always think checked on? Did she was it white, Martha? I guess we just discussed it. Yeah. But we changed, we made those windows larger, the last two, and we put the panes in. We did the um Yeah. Or square or whatever they call. What else did we ask about or did I ask about the color that we had questions about? Um yeah, the uh on our approval for the um October 7th, 2024,

um we had it Uh we specified that the uh the windows would be um white and

wasn't there a question about the roof? the roof. Um it just said standing seam metal roof um as specified on the CFA application and the detailed accompanying architects plans and brochures. So whatever was originally on that is what we approved. Well, um I don't know what to say about the stone around the pool if you haven't picked it out. If you can do the pool without the finishing stone, you could come back and

Yes, definitely. Wouldn't the stone would go in by October? Yeah. Um I think you need to know the or identify any pool approval mechanical location. Right. And it's if in other words, if we were to approve the pool today, we'd have to know where the mechanical is going to be and that it's going to be hidden properly. It is going in that strip. There's room for it, right?

But we don't have to prove the mechanicals today, do we? We have to prove the size, don't we? We have to know. If you approve a pool, you got to prove all parts of the pool. You dig the pool. pool. Well, that's a hole in the ground. Yeah, but she's asking for a pool. So, what comes with a pool is water. It's a natural It's a pond. Okay. Finish is I I agree. You know, you can do stone and stuff later, but I just think you have to state in the in the approval of a pool where it's going to be and

and where the mechanicals will be. Yeah, the mechanicals will be in that section because they've already that was the discussion that we had about the generator which will not fit back. I understand. Yeah, but the covering will be this will look exactly the same as the front. I'm talking about process here. Yeah. Okay. It's got to be part of the process. the dimensions. Yeah. Right. Um just quickly, did we approve the uh the actual structure going around the mechanical stuff when we approved that's that's as far as I know that

approved that structure. um it was included in the broad approval that said who everything else on the plans basically was approved. So if behind there do we have to have a separate approval? My question. So

to me to me that's if we we've done pools before and we identify on a pool the the structure of the pool itself the mechanical systems that are serving it where they go and how they're shielded uh and then the fence around the pool. Um the the to me a pool approval you have to think about those three things because the mechanicals what if they don't fit that area? I'm I'm sure they will, but in terms of precedent, you have to think about where they're going to go and the potential impact to the neighbors and to the town visually.

Well, we can approve it for the location she specified and and to be covered by a fence that is at least sufficient height to correct shield. That's right. What's the size of that area now? Do you have the installed right now? Uh, currently there's just the HVAC installed. So, what is the size of that spot? I believe it's 24 feet. It's the same length as the garage. Okay. Pretty big. Garage. Yeah. Low space.

So, can you do the HVAC and if you are going to do propane and your pool mechanicals all within that? Is there certain spacings that they need to be? I know they don't like to put propane tanks really close to the the generator if you're going to have one. I'm not having a generator. There's no generator. Buried tank or is it a I think it's a tank above the ground.

There's no there's the generator isn't there because it won't fit there with the pool equipment. If the portable generator doesn't work or if you have more funding available in the future, you might very well want to put in a generator. So, we're sort of hoping Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Anticipate where that would go and whether that would go in this section with the mechanicals, even if not now. It would have to go elsewhere on the north side where your our where electrical service is in the front. No, north. the right side. The right side on the back, I guess. Yeah, I'm not sure. Anyway, that's that's for another another day.

Or solar and battery. That's what I have. Yeah, that's nothing. That's what I want. I have nothing because we because we always have it restored pretty quickly on Lime Street. True. That's sort of what I thought. I mean, I had a full house generator on Blood Street because we because we have the schools and all these things happening. So, it does here. I figure across from the fire across from this across from the fire department and the schools that they probably are the first you don't even have to have the solar you can still have a battery backup. Yeah. Yeah. So that's another option.

Yeah. I mean fingers crossed that I don't need a whole house generator again. We we did discuss with the Jones's issues and I'm fuzzy on the details regarding the placement of propane tank because it could not be too near what was it windows was it heating the heating it can't be too close to the generator itself and windows that's right there are no windows on that okay but close to a generator okay so I guess

no generator All right. Let me try to just my uh matter of review go through each of these four things you're requesting um and see if there are any more questions on any of them. On number one, the the driveway seems to be non-controversial except for the asphalt apron, which you would would check on the fe. Okay. So, what you're saying to me, I just want to make sure I understand. You're saying you would not approve an asphalt apron? Correct. Yeah. Agreed. No. Okay.

Um the second is uh French pport steps. Um and I gave you a faximile of what that will look like. Um porch light we haven't discussed but you attached a picture. I attached picture the pool and fencing. Our discussion is focused mostly on uh the the mechanicals which we would today presume to attach a

a stipulation that they be in the same area. shielded um in the same area as other mechanicals. And then the um the the the shrubbery um we've discussed briefly the understanding is that this would all be ever evergreen. I think the viburnum it says on the CFA that the viburnum is flowering. Yes. So, I'm not sure if would be odd to have a flowering plant that doesn't drop its leaves. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Well,

what is the name of the dendrins are blue?

I can find out from Brandon. blue muffin arrow. Huh? Oh, it says it's there 50 different I know there are a lot. Yeah, it's a native. It's a native plant. It is deciduous. It does lose its leaves. I think we need and flowers. But then when you have a mix of things, still going to be good screening. I think

I mean for me the most important screening is really by the Conrad's house. It's the same right where you're putting the house. All right. Um are there any with all this discussion any comments from the audience? Okay. Uh did you do you discuss number before doing it?

Yes, we have ascertained that the viburnum is is is flowering and if someone wants to suggest that this be approved with uh the understanding that it particularly in the area of the neighbor's house that it be sufficient to shield year year round. We could but it's deciduous. It's deciduous but not the arborite. Correct. But the viburnum is deciduous. Yeah. So I mean I think Brandon suggested this because he thinks it's pretty and I looked at it and I thought it was very pretty.

Is there something else that you have in the past that is an evergreen that's native? People always plant the viburnum in front of the arborite. you know, the little pockets on it. It would be pretty, but it wouldn't serve as a screen. A screen, right?

All right. Let me take a shot at a motion and get that on the table. I move that the uh project descriptions as shown on the CFA be approved with following stipulations. that the driveway apron not be asphalt and the concrete I'm sorry concrete asphalt

um and uh that the um commission will consider alternatives next month. And that the pool mechanicals be situated in the same location as ex other existing mechanicals with a uh fencing of sufficient height to cover all the to shield all the um all the mechanicals. And that the shrubbery uh be installed with a sufficient density of uh arborite to shield the view from the southside here year round which would leave Erica you you know with the option to to to use the the deciduous plants in in in pockets,

right? Gotcha. Of color. I can actually I've been back and forth with Brandon Novak about how that's actually going to be and you know he's very busy this time of year and he isn't really that responsive. I think I mean that's my understanding. Did you include the fence on the pool? Well, it's I just said as stated, right? But maybe yeah, the description of the fence because the photo is just a a style photo. What's stated in the submission?

Fencing is 4 foot high cedar post with one by one wire mesh and 10 to 15 feet around pool. Does that mean feet back from the pool? Yes. Um we haven't specified how close together the 4T cedar posts are. I believe it's 8 ft. eight feet. Clarify clarify that.

And and on the the screening for the mechanicals, is that two-sided against the house or is it three-sided with the door? In other words, does it go all the if this is the facade, does it go all three sides or is it two sides with an open entrance or is it all three sides like with a door to enter the mechanical area? I can have them draw that out for you. Why don't I do that is have them draw the mechanical area. might be a little easier than trying to because I know obviously you have to access it, right?

I'm thinking it's three sides, but I'm actually not sure. Right. So, you might want it screened so you're not looking at it when you walk out of your house and between the house and the pool, right? And and the um the other question will be ventilation like how much air? So, it might it might not be a solid like your garage is a solid beast. It's not solid. It's got little teeny spaces. Oh, it does have some space. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, then this would have something like that probably air flow. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still hesitating about approving this aspect because we don't

we're not sure about the design of this enclosure. We're not sure about the dimensions of the enclosure. And I think in the past we've always been quite specific about that. the dimensions of which of the the enclosure of the screening of the screening. Yeah, we have no no of that. We don't know the dimensions. Well, we have what's on this plan, right? I I can see it here. But that's right, Erica. For your timetable, if we if we hold off on approving the specifics of the screening till next meeting, that's fine. Yeah, totally. So, just not approve it now.

Yeah. and I can get you a drawing of exactly what that will look like. I I'm okay approving the pool with the statement that the mechanical will be in the area shown on the plan subject to screening. Subject to screening, right? Okay, great. That's in other words, that way we know it's in that area. It's not growing, right? But it's the screening will be defined and we you could even say that the design is based on the garage or your Yeah. Did we have a second Martha? Uh we don't have a second yet.

Okay. So let me restate the motion. We approve the project as as specified on the um on the uh CFA with the following stipulations. first that um the apron for the driveway is not approved and should not include asphalt. Um the second is that the pool fencing is understood to be half cedar posts 8 ft apart. And the reference to 10 to 15 ft refers to 10 to 15 ft.

It's actually drawn on that plan even though it's really hard to see, but the it varies. It actually varies a little bit. So you Yeah. So in the I think it's 15 ft that front side and then it's 10 ft the west the rest of the way around it. Yeah. Well, the gate coming in 15t. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure that it's backed from the pool, not backed from any apron that you later.

Yeah. Um and that uh the the approval does not include the stone apron around the pool. And the approval is given with the understanding that the pool mechanicals will be placed uh with other mechanicals um subject to um a screening fencing screening that uh will be approved in the future. I would say not just other mechanicals. I would be specific and say the mechanical area that is um west of the garage.

Okay, that's a friendly addition. And that um the the proposed shrubbery be approved with the understanding that the uh non-deiduous arborite be sufficient in in density to shield uh the the that side of the house. Sort of surprised that he gave me a plant that's not I mean I just thought it was pretty. I don't know anything about plants. What did you say, John? I'm sorry. The shrubbery approved that the non-deiduous

be si of sufficient density to serve as a a a screen for the property. Once this is all done, nobody's going to see anything from Lime Street. You're not going to see it from Lime Street. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second. Further discussion. Favor. I I extensions. Motion carries. There you go. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I know you all work so hard on this and I appreciate it very much. Doesn't take care of any work you're doing. enjoyed it mainly. I've enjoyed it. It's got to be kind of fun to plot out your space. Oh, I've loved that process. I've loved every second. I want to do it again. And everyone thinks I'm nuts. You need sheep. I need sheep for the field. Well, the back field. We're only going to um the whole back field. I don't know if you noticed, we cleared it. I I can't focus. And it's just going to be field and I'm hoping to have a little two sheep. You can come hang out with them. I look like a farmer to you.

Because I can't read this. We we have just sorry there's some discussion about who's who's voted how people voted down here. Okay. I I asked the people entitled to vote are the regular members. Yeah. I asked for those approving and I heard eyes and I asked if anyone was opposed. I was okay. I didn't I missed that. I didn't hear. Martha, did you hear that? Yeah. And uh no abstensions. I abstain. Oh, and one abstension.

Okay. Um, so the motion carries and I I'm just curious what do you know the approximate distance between the pool and the what what's the back of your property? Does it go down to the river? It goes to the river. We currently um we're so the one is only going to go to about here and this is all field right? But do you know approximately how far that is to the river? To the river? I can tell you. I I can't read it. Let me see if I can bring it up on my phone. And

well, there's there's a 100 foot wetlands area indicated on the on the drawing right here, John. That's what you're asking. Yeah, the wetlands is there. This line right here, that horizontal line, it's okay. a way well well you're well beyond the and there's a valley it's a it's it's a concern also not just wetlands but your jurisdiction of the gateway commission and if you're planning any pretty much anything tree removal whatever in the gateway district that's another

let me just be very clear where the gateway district is ft back 100 100 feet back from the Oh, okay. So, it's hard. Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. That's not off for your information. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. Um, Eric, we were actually ahead of schedule. 10:30. We're not anymore. We're not ahead of schedule anymore. No. Okay. So, what's the update?

Just to update, um, we the RFP for the work went out on Friday. Um, we'll have a meeting next week with any interested parties. Bids due back on the 30th of this month, September, with the work uh hoping to get started two weeks after that through the month of November, depending on, you know, their schedule. Um, as of right now, the plan is just to do like for like replace what we have as we discussed last meeting. I do I don't know if I need to file this something. I did a like for like application uh for your records if I just leave that with you guys today. Okay. Um, we'll know on the 30th if there is an option to go with, as I talked about the last time, using concrete on that front apron in front of the bays would be your preference. That would be the preference of our public works director because it's stronger, more durable. Uh again, it's a cost um uh issue. So, we'll see where those bids come out. I understand that we would have to go for CO COA uh with you guys if we do change that. Knowing that's the 30th, if we do change it, what is the pro I wanted to come today. What is the process for us to file that COA with you? Well, we it's a it's a separate form. Yeah, you have that or we can buy that. It it it requires a public hearing. So, we need it ideally what 10 days in advance of the next week.

I would I would recommend that you assume that you're going to do it, okay? And just file everything ahead of time and then if you decide not to, we can just cancel it. That way, we're all draw it. But okay, you have all your stuff. There's time. So if I did it today or this week, file it. Then it would be on the next your next month's meeting, which would be prior to when we want to start the work and then if you don't need it, we just Yeah. Okay. Draw it. That makes sense. That's a good idea. Okay. Publicize it on the first, which is would give you time give us time for the meeting on the

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've done that before. Yeah. And then people have said, "Oh, we changed the plans. We don't need to do that." And that's fine. Okay. All right. That's easy enough. I I will take care of that. Uh so if we don't do it, should I plan on coming back at the next meeting just to let you know what we're doing? Is that good for you guys? Or if it's like for like, you don't need to come back. Okay. All right. I will communicate that with you and saying, "Hey, we're just going to go ahead and replace what we have." Um I mean, let us know one way or the other so we know. Yep. Yes, definitely. So, okay. So, I will file the Say that again. Will you be painting it the way it was?

That is the plan. Yeah. To be exactly as is. What? So in the front it has that stamped area that doesn't look like it was painted but you know now because it has worn off after 20 some odd years but that is what we would like to do. Um so it looks like uh it does now. So I will um like I said I'll keep you guys updated then. So any other questions from you guys at this point? Okay great. I will just I just leave this with you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Rose Lane, Wendy Elizabeth. Hey, we need to we need to probably pull up a couple other chairs. Hi, I'm Wender Johnson. I'm working with Felner Architects together with our client. Russell actually picked it. I'm not voting.

Okay, this has very light lines. So, even though I brought a big draw, you still might not be able to see it. Please vote if you like. Um you saw their application but we are proposing an addition to their house which is coffee. Is this it?

Yep. That's this is the site plan here but we have those um also attached. We are at the very northern tip of your historic district on the corner of Rose Lane here. And this is the house. Um it's a traditional cake that was built in 1956. And um we have proposing to do is to enlarge the kitchen, which the kitchen um presently is at this corner of the house. Um I'm sorry, which corner? This front corner you can see. The

corner farthest from Lime Street. Yeah. If we look at the um site plan here, Lime Street is here, Rose Lane is here, and the driveway comes in here. And this photo is taken from this uh view here.

Um an interesting fact about this house, um I'm not sure which previous owners did this, but there used to be a new approach or a former approach to the house where this is actually the front of the house. And so the driveway came into the property this way. So we're actually um coming down the driveway and approaching what is really the former back of the house. Feels like the front now as you arrived there as a new person. But um it's a confusing house. Oh used to come around. I see the kitchen in the back. There's not a front door on that fac. You go between the garage and the house

to enter the front door. and we're going to maintain that entrance. Um that's okay how we like it. And um when we enlarge the kitchen, we'll also have the opportunity opportunity to obscure this door which um visitors come and they'll encourage people to go to the front door right now instead of their front door. Yeah. Good luck.

Um this is the site plan. um very lightly shaded and with a blue line is the addition. Um I'll show you in a larger plan and what we propose to do is low fence along the driveway to keep this a private garden entrance to the kitchen but make a more formal um pronouncement of the entry with two pillars that you pass through to come up to the front end front of the house which is really here. You'll see it better. This is good.

So, here's the um the existing house. I think I need to be on this side. Um the dash line indicates where the existing footprint of the house is. And this new portion, it's 2 feet on this side. Um and then four feet here. And then a little bit deeper here. I don't have that dimension there, but um let's see. That's 10 foot eight here. So, what that allows for is to increase their galley kitchen to a more functional kitchen where they have a center island to work around, little workspace, and then they also get a breakfast in that kind of landing spot, homework area. And then this is the line of the new wood fence that'll um divide the private garden from the driveway and the um there'll be a a small little private deck for actually the passage. They have a nice grilling area here. So the passage from the kitchen to the outdoor grill is still maintained while still keeping the main formal front door in it.

So are you are you proposing to change? I know the basic driveway stays the same but is is it the driveway itself going to be expanded?

Driveway stays where it is. Um, what we will do is this is the existing Bilco hatch to the basement and we will move that out the 4 foot so it stays in the same place it is now, just shifts closer to the driveway, but the edge of the driveway remains the same. And these are the proposed elevations of the new addition. Um, we went through many design iterations. Um, we all might laugh about it, but we've worked together very closely to make sure that the new addition didn't take a prominent um prominence away from the main mass of the the cape, the beauty of the Cape World Beach Preserve. And then our new addition is just is a one-story edition that we think speaks the language of a porch almost more um scaled down to nice people's eyes and um provides a nice view out from the kitchen. And then this is where the dining nook bumps out. And this is where the Bilco hatches and another window from the work area of the kitchen. And then this is the low fence. um proposed to be similar to the existing fence they have now. Um I already buried the what I do.

Oh, you guys haven't. So, does the fence show in there? No, we're just proposing a lower this. Oh, this the back fence white stuff over here. Are you matching? I assume you are, but to make sure matching the windows, the new kitchen windows to other windows on the house. What What type of windows do you do you are you using?

We're proposing uh the Marvin elevate windows, which are wood interior and fine outside, but they match in size. this one along this facade um casement windows here and then double hung on this face to match these. So, and these two match on the Thank you. around the counter top. Same volume, same size. Yes. And then the siding will be nice

wood clap work to match the existing and the trim work will u be a composite painted white to match the existing and the roof shingles will be an architectural asphalt shingle as the existing houses. Can you can you do a asphalt shingle with that that slope? What is your slope on here? The slope is 412. Oh, so you're good. Yeah, I think we can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Questions, comments?

I look nice. Um it's as you know we have no say over interior um just exterior structures and this is an issue because this is visible from from Rose Lane if though not I guess Lime Street. So, you know, all the exterior stuff you've mentioned includes the deck, the fence, moving the basement, entry, windows, labor trim, roofing. Am I forgetting anything? Exterior

pavement maybe or the paths which will be blue. Yeah. So when you come in formally, that's that's your your your checklist. But I for one I think it'll be I think it looks like a great project. So what do we need to do then to to have that happen? What's our next step?

Okay, the next step is to file what we call a certificate of appropriateness application. they're they're online or we could send one to you. Um, and we like to have accompanying details. Many uh we've got the drawings already, but um samples samples of material or failing samples, pictures of the material you're proposing to use, all the specifications for, you know, the window size and material. It's it's it's pretty much laid out on the on the form that we're

we do have a collection in the office of the things to bring to the next meeting. So, we're ready and we do have a copy of your CFA here. So, um we'll be set. Yes. And we asked that we get the application about 10 days ahead of time because it is a public hearing. So, we have to do advertising that few people read, I'm sure, but notices go out to at least the immediate neighbors. We read the notices we got from you all. Some people read them. Okay, there we go. Yes. Um, the next meeting is October 6th.

October 6th. So that would push your timeline back to about uh September 26th for having the the forms brought in. Um and I understand we can get a copy of the um the bunners and neighbors that we'll need to distribute from the Okay. Yeah. And I send those notices out so you don't have to do that. Oh, okay. You don't need to that for Yeah. Oh, do you collect it or do you collect the names or do they give you the names?

Um, they you generally give me the names, but I also do a search on the GIS for a butters, too. So, got a full list of them. We'll collect and pass it to Mark. Y. Okay. Great. All right. Thanks. I had one one question or thought and and maybe to be part of the presentation is I see this this angle here. Um, actually the photo is pretty close to it, but actually if you're coming down Lime Street, the primary sight line is kind of the the corner where the Bilco door is to the basement, right? Two questions.

Lime Street, you can't really see anything. But but that could change vegetation, right? A lot. I mean it's a it could it could change forest.

All I all I'm what I'm and and when you turn down Rose Lane that's the primary view. So two thoughts. One is is it possible to move the bill code door to the other side of the the new bumpout? May or may not be possible. The the other possibility is if it needs to stay in that location, think about what visual landscaping might be in front of that that would reduce the view of the Bilco door. So this is the view, right? Right.

And this is the Bill code door, but you can't see it because of all the grass. So I think we could probably do something. That's so as part as part of the presentation. Um just describe some kind of vegetation in front of that. Yeah, sure. Great. Thank you. Thank you.

This is the door leading back to the grill area, right? Um, and this is the tiny booth you'll see from the other elevation. Terrific. Great. Thanks so much. Thanks for being so prepared. It's great. Great.

So, next up is this realtor sign discussion. that changes from the last meeting. I changed a word on the first page. invasiveness to intrusiveness that was not directly related to what we're talking about strike out in paragraph nine because um that information is covered in paragraph 13 which is everything that's new and my thought is once this is approved to send letters out to the different realtors and contractors that we know of and to say here's the here's the guidelines. I think it would be kind of nice to once we start getting acknowledgments in to include in the secretar's report that's appears in the minutes every month. Here's a list of folks who have met have signified their agreement to um the the the the conditions uh set out in our signage guidelines.

One thing I thought of was you don't really specify how that acknowledgement should be worded or provided. Would you like I just wondered would you like to have a form and then the realtor and the construction person would say yes I've read these guidelines and acknowledge her or do you want to just leave it ad hoc and people can acknowledge however they want. It probably would be cleaner than just saying we agree. I mean, I suppose should have the exact title of the document that they're agreeing to and the exact provision so I can I can uh write up a an acknowledgement. Um, how about instead of a written statement, a form submitted to the T HDC, a form acknowledging their compliance?

Maybe I I was a question. Yeah, might might be just clearer. These these signs are made out of metal. Which signs? The the the realtor signs. The the posts are wood. Most of them I mean mine, for example, some of these ones are all made out of metal. I mean, the posts are are wooden, right? But this

But the actual signs themselves are are uh are are a metal Well, then we could say RC signs and posts shall be made of wood or woodlike synthetic material or metal. Well, no, we don't want metal posts, right? The the post will be made the structure signs themselves are Well, but if somebody wanted to do a wood sign, they could. They could. Yeah. So, but here it's requiring that they be made of wood.

Yes, I understand. Wood woodl like synthetic material or metal. Yeah. It's just we're not we're not specifying then what the signpost should be made of. No. Should we? Should we? I mean, they should be wood all like our arm, right? They're all like this and along not just the realtor signs, but the signs that we ask other people to do for their businesses are wooden post and arm. If they're metal, is that like they probably will never be, but they have a square. I haven't seen a metal one. Have you?

Either. Yeah. Why do we need to preclude that if Well, it just I mean the wood I guess looks to my eye more historic

stark metal sign. We require the wood ones for for the other signs that I mean for example at Armisia and all these other signs we we've always required at the library unless otherwise specified like at the academy that their metal and the one but we we've specified wood posts I think it's common practice too for real They could do plastic. Yeah, we don't really want that. We don't We don't They could eventually

It looked like wood. I mean, well, I'm really picking that's woodike. That's woodike synthetic wood like synthetic is okay. That's what it says. So, I've got an RC sign should be made of wood. Woodlike synthetic material or metal and an RC post They'll be made of wood or woodlike synthetic material. Yeah, I think that's I mean the folks who will have trouble are the contractors to have these little wire signs, right? And I just had a quick question about that. Um, has anybody measured those signs because they Yes, they're two two square feet. Deie was out.

I measured in the rain. But yesterday I called her up and say, "Could you double check six by 24 for the little ones and it's 24 by 24 for the main one. So 2 by for the for the you know the dangly name of the realtor." So no, I was talking about the contractors. Oh no, I haven't measured that. I just think they're slightly bigger. Oh, I thought they were much smaller ones I've seen. Two feet by one foot. The wires are measured. signs. They're not four square feet. 24 by 18. Two square feet. No, no, but we the signs it can be up to four square feet. Okay. It's a dangling little appendages.

You're talking about realtor sign. Yeah, I'm talking about contractor sign. It just he's not talking about real realtor sign. Oh, no. Contractor sign two square feet in size. That's the size of the real estate sign. No, no, the this contractor sign. Yeah, but I mean I'm just saying that's the same size what the real estate sign is. Just so that people can have it in their head. Um they haven't, but they can't use they can't use wire signs, right? But they do use wire signs. They will they're not approved wire signs.

They're not approved by the historic commission. I never John I was just thinking about two by one and I they look bigger to me than that. So I I mean two is the whole width of a I we can find one and measure it. I guess might be a good idea just because we're trying to be clear who has one out there. Okay. So, why don't I make these changes and write up an acknowledgement form and try to find a contractor sign and measure it and I'll come back next month.

Meaning like landscaping, any of these signs that get I think there's one in front of front of Jamie Child's house. Something's happening. What about mattress signs? Yeah, do you want to take your tape measure next time you go walking? Never leave home without your tape measure. The way to intrude on your your peaceful walk. And what about the clutter sentence, John? What? Well, did you is the clutter sentence in this document? Clutter multiple science. Well, that's a different issue. I know it is, but I I didn't know if you were dealing with that now or if you're not. If you have suggestions um

is it why don't you pass it on and I'll put it in the draft. Okay. I think it's final final draft for next thought is that clutter as stated is too subjective. Of course every judgment is subjective but I think the word someone else could say well this isn't cluttering this is perfectly aligned or whatever. So, if we can find a a different way to state that, I think

it's hard to for me to I mean, we could put some maximum number of signs that no place would conceivably ever use, but it's, you know, place like the museum or Greyville shops need more signs than What about the Obl men? They have two large ones and then they have then they have the one in the fence. Speaking of which, did you ever speak to that? I I did. I thought it was coming down. To me, that's a sign that's not approved.

And and what I think I think I mean the the shops is that there's multiple businesses, right? So each in my mind what we're setting is each business or entity that's operating gets one sign that states who and what they are and then what we're setting as a precedent is they have one additional sign that shows some kind of function whether an open or it's closed or we're having at the flow grids we're having an event this exhibit it it it kind of seems Like that's the trend, but that would be a temporary sign, right? Because the open sign is it's only there part of the time.

Just to prove when you say temporary, do you mean temporary during the day or temporary during a year or five years? I know we'd have to specify, but Right. I I think if you that there might be a way to say one permanent sign, which is the nature of the entity and no more than one temporary sign, and then we could define it however we needed. In other words, you don't want My objection to the old line is that that's always there. It's not just occasionally there. It's just a permanent part of the Again, that hasn't been approved. They're they're hanging that in violation.

They also had a new sign up. I didn't notice it today. Maybe it was just for the weekend, which was a sandwich board sign, but but wood with a slate. Again, in violation. Yeah. Oh, I said dinner. So, what we have to do is we have to decide what we're going to approve. I mean, people are in violation. They're in violation until somebody slaps a fine on, right? So, but what we approve, I think we have to set a precedent of what we approve. And maybe your idea is right that it's one one operating entity has a state of business or permanent sign, permanent sign,

chocolate shell, like Connecticut. And then and then there's one additional And then that way you avoid clutter because you're allowing two or one extra one temporary. What is the with respect to the old line in you want to talk to them again one more time Russ or do we well they said they were going to come in a letter or maybe Martha could write them a letter and say we're waiting for you to come. Please come please come in. We're looking forward to looking forward to coming in. several issues relating to the end. Yeah, I tried the friendly way which is and and and still be friendly.

Oh yeah. Um but then I guess the question is we have the flow grids, we have the um uh lime academy and then we've got in other words the the other institutions library and that have that often have more than just two signs, right? Well, occasionally events and such they have permanent and then they have a Academy has slime academy then it has exhibitions art store right these

so what I'm getting at is if we start talking about numbers to deal with clutter that you have these kind of exceptions to that rule um very true so maybe you know I don't know I don't know how we delineate I mean those are larger institutions maybe the amount of of footage footage that's exactly where it's going. The amount of footage on Lime Street, you can only have so many signs per per 200 feet. I don't know. Or they're larger and they get more sign, right? How about the old I'm in? How much is its footage? Pretty long footage on street.

Well, it also goes around the corner along the exit and that's where they have a sun. Right. Right. So, all right. Well, if if any of you, but Carolyn especially have thoughts for wording for the next meeting. I I have I'm not resolved. Maybe Brush should take a crack at it because I don't know how to specify. I think that your questions are exactly right. I just don't know the answer. I think we have to decide as a committee what these It's not just wording. It's it's what what do we want to make our statement as to what the sign should be um regarding clutter? So you does you prevent a property from having you know I would

five signs I would really like the clutter issue if it's going to be debated for a while not to hold up the realtor sign issue right inquiry from realtor since January that's not a clutter thing. No, no, no. But I'm just saying, yeah, we don't we can revise these guidelines every other month if we want to. So,

we we should all give thought to clutter and to talk about what we would like to to see. But uh so if folks have thoughts before the next meeting, I can suggest alternative language, but I would urge us not to hold up approval of the realtor portion. Yes. Because we're So let's approve the realtor. Do you need a motion for that, Doug? Well, we we I we could approve it subject to but it's going to measure a contractor signs. You want to do it that way. Great. Like

we could approve it for a standard contractor's a limit for a standard contractor signed dimension. Well, but just say two to be determined. Is there a contractor sign? Give me discretion in ED to modify that that phrase. Yeah. Okay, great. Do we need to say do we need to specify no more than one contractor signed per property or is that most of the time that's all? Well, let me ask that question. What if you have multiple contractors? You have a landscape person and you have a if you're building a house, you have,

right? I'd say one. And it could be that I mean in the commercial world it's one sign and they all have to go on that one sign. In other words, all the different the architect the Yes. I don't know if that works in the work but two square feet. Yeah. Right. Well, very small print your firm your other firm firm. It would be hard to limit will say well they have a sign. What about me? So, I I think that's still an issue or still something we want to put a little thought into. When I I mean, I know that I shouldn't really bring up my own, but when I rebuilt my house, the contractor sign was there,

not every subcontractor, right? Like plumbing people and all the roof. I mean, these people didn't put out signs. It was contractor. Right. Right. Well, and for revisions, it's usually one thing at a time. roofing sign if you're roof. So, let's limit it to one sign per property. Um, it could really be uncluttered if you let

Yeah. So, but if I had a line saying limit of one realtor sign and one contractor sign, the property at the same time. So if it's just an HVAC person, then that's the sign they get. Yeah. Right. Right. The general contractor does something like a big project then you have Yeah. And they again they could

if they wanted well they well they could have one signed and list multiple if they wanted if they wanted to to go to the expense of that. Right. Um, okay. Well, if you trust me with the language, fine. Otherwise, there are enough changes. Maybe just come back next month. Nobody's been banging down the door. And where's your answer to my Janu January inquiry? But we'll have it done within a year. Okay. Next month.

Okay. All right. Next item. website revisions, Carolyn or Julie. Um, it was material out here. This Caroline sent as supplied I'm not sure time to talk about it today. It's already 1110.

Well, should we postpone it until next week and give us time to read and digest it?

Maybe. Yes, I think maybe we should re update. So I tried to um consolidate and eliminate redundancy and cluster and reposition in a more logical at least logical to me um arrangement of the information that is provided on the HCC website. So that was my goal to re to make the arrangement more logical. Having them the primary things in more prominent locations and subsidiary things unless for example you know the railroad or something is not absolutely essential to our uh our deliberations. So you can see what you think about that. I also consolidated the language and you asked that I put in a uh you know a sort of oversight over general statement of what the HTC's purpose is. So I just took that um we've written before I just cut and paste it John had provided um and there's still uh I need to include the if you sent me the GIS map to include I I I didn't see it. So the GIS map and a headnote to the GIS map still is not included. The FAQs need to be revised, but that's the last step once we get all the other information so that those aren't um redundant,

the signage guidelines and lighting guidelines. This is a lot Carolyn, thank you so much for doing this is terrific. Yeah, I tried to I think this is in an interim step. Maybe one more time we can we can decide the the content and if you have any recommendations about the placement the the overall design of the website that that's great but this is one I took one crack at it.

Julie said by the way that she liked it very much so I know she's studied actually the design maybe more in detail than I have. Um, this is great. I'll I'll think urge each of us to read through it and send to Julie and Carolyn any any suggestions. Thanks. Thank you so much.

It' be very helpful. And then the uh last oh there is one issue I think we could take care of today. Um, and I've already confessed to Deanie and Martha my my goof, but we we have in the signage guidelines the requirement that applications for structures have to be submitted by the property owner, which makes a great deal of sense to me. It ensures that some tenant not do something that the property owner doesn't like. The property owner is ultimately responsible. So my goof was when we did the dedicated examiner sign here, we had the tenant come in and submit the application and I just blanked on it.

Right. Yeah. Um we caught it here. I think what Bren handed it to Martha was a statement from Jim Greyel basically saying he agrees to or he signed off. He did sign it. Yeah, Jim signed it. That was good. So going forward, I think we should insist on that. But one reminder might well be in two places on the CFA form where it says signatures of all owners. we specify that it be property

property owned just insert the word property and um there was a second place I don't have the full form because these forms Griswald forms were not

I have a blank form oh yeah and then under number one it's owners ers should be property owners. So insert the word property before owners in number paragraph one and in at the signature line at the end. So if I could make that that motion to revise that form. Is there a second? John, I did not look at the forms. Oh no, no, no, no. I I the wording of the forms. I only looked at the wording.

Yeah. And this wasn't they probably deserve another review, too. But I just it's not a there's no reason not to update it for the future. So, yeah, I second. I think we should have clarity discussion in favor. No, clarifies. I Okay. So the the demolition guidelines that were circulated um Deie, do you want to give a little background about Well, do we want to do this now or do we want to wait?

Not not in detail, but just why why it's coming up now? Oh, it's coming up now because we had um as as all of you know there was a new revised uh plan of conservation and development POCD

and uh there were there um suggested that the HDC be involved or the HDC and the selectman or the anyway one of those things one of those issues that they highlighted was uh the uh potential uh need for a demolition delay in the town, not just not just the HTC. We have we have as um John has pointed out here in the state statutes some protection as within the HDC. So the question for the POC was do we want to propose or work with planning to propose a demolition delay for the

town? and and John suggested that maybe we could tighten up what we have within the HTC guidines. Well, yeah. I mean, there's really two in issues. The the the well there's a complication to the PLCD issue which is noted at the end. local government. There there's a state statute that off that specifies what can be authorized by local government ordinances. Um and that refers to only taking steps to protect the historic architectural character of properties. Oh, it says or districts. Okay, never mind. Uh or in the whole district is on the national register. Is that right? So, okay, we're we're good. Never mind never mind that last point.

Um,

so we could we could do two things. I'm I'm trying to stick with guidelines. So, we could do something similar to the signage guidelines, but hopefully not remotely as as detailed so that somebody who's considering demolishing a property could could have a sort of checklist of the factors that we look at. And I included some samples from other towns, many in other states, um, to give you, and they're they're mostly brief, but just some ideas to look at and think about what we might want to include. The second issue, which is is what Deanie's referring to, is um do we want to work up an ordinance to send to the POC that we would support? And our work is made significantly easier by the fact that the first sample ordinance, the first listing in paragraph 3 is um something prepared by Preservation Connecticut, which is basically a moder ordinance.

This is two issues really. Do we want guidelines to add to our growing collections of glue sticks is coming soon. We we we had an example of this in real life when the children's learning center um was bounced down to us from from from from upstairs um because they wanted to demolish it and I think that was a very good outcome for us and so the process as stated worked

but if somebody's considering it as a preliminary matter it might be a place to say, "If you're thinking about this, here's who you'd contact, get ideas before it happens in the middle of the night." Yeah. Right. And so a great idea to have you too tly worded guidelines for demolition in bold just so that people because there are some places along in the historic district that you can imagine come we can agree on that same thing. Okay. You know. Yeah. All right. What was what was the other issue, Joe?

Well, the other issue is a formal ordinance that we would not adopt, but the that the town would adopt applicable to historic to the historic district, but also to other historic houses in town. So, that's not so much an issue for us. No. Well, but we'd support it. We would Yeah, we would send our guidelines to them maybe. Okay. We could send our guidelines to them. We could say if we like it, we could send the sample uh preservation Connecticut ordinance to them and say here's a good to consider a a good template.

So please glance at these samples and say, you know, here are the two or three or four or five features that I think should be noted in guidelines. and then I can write up something for the next meeting and would be responsive to the PICD. Is there anything that you and for example may I ask one question just looking ahead? Um do I have to do anything about the annual town report or is Martha doing? Martha has done it. I did it. She has done it. You already told them that's what we I can send you a copy if you want to make some comments time. Thank you Martha.

Thank you Martha. I just copied last year's and put in the updates updated. That's all I did. Yeah. Yeah. There were significant revisions last year and so I think the templates pretty good. Did we announce our new guidelines in part of this? I think I did mention that that we had signage new signage guidelines. Yeah. Um co-chairs report very briefly. Thank you Carolyn. Thank you.

Um the only thing I have to report is about the train. Uh two things. There was a newspaper article few months ago in the Providence newspaper and there was a line in there and then there's an accompanying map showing somebody's rendering of where the line should through old lime should go should go right down Hall's road and through the museum property. to the north side of of 95. North 95. So,

um, in my backyard in your backyard. Yeah. I don't I'm not taking that seriously, but um, it did prompt me to try to find out who's behind that. I don't have an answer yet. Amtrak is completely ignoring the repeated requests for information informally.

So, I've drafted letters that Deie has looked at to go to the Connecticut DOT and to Amtrak um saying, you know, what's the timetable for this project? this study that was supposed to be done uh within 18 months of of January 24. Um it it basically I mean Greg Straoud and other sources suggest it hasn't really started yet. Um, but it will I mean it I'm I'm presuming there's a mandate that they complete this study and figure out some way to eliminate 20 minutes of travel time between New Haven and Providence.

We have to get our demolition guidelines in place. Yes, you cannot demolish a national historic landmark. It was a big help. I mean in the first time around as you will remember the Florence Griswald is a national huge same category as the white house right so that was very helpful in averting now they've just targeted it so now it I like these these examples that you provided pretty much preclude demolition of the it seems like demolition of the bar

helpful it really is helpful. We really did learn that um all along the way, not just here, but in some of the other towns during the time when, you know, everybody was opposing that that these national historically registered places do have meat to them in terms of um history. Yeah. Well, uh in halting federal projects. Yeah. Um, Martha, is it is it uh you do a real quick summary? We can read your read your report in the minutes.

Not not very much is new from last July. Um, the only thing that I noticed really is that the uh 74 Lime Street original CFA expires next month. So, we will need to Erica. Yeah, Erica's Yeah. Doesn't Dave's project on Lime Street, the railing also expire? Um, the uh Dave Vitali 38 Lime Street that expires in November. Yeah, that's coming up too. There's a bunch of those things that just need to be removed, renewed, rather.

The other thing is what's the story with the fence the corner of Ferry Road? Yeah, it's very hard to get a response from her. Well, is it is it is that another one where we should just send a letter and say, "Come on." Yeah, you have spoken politely. I know you've spoken to her, but you can't email back and forth, but fence. We don't know the plans. Yeah. Ca for taking down the fence. Yeah. Yeah. It's one thing if you if it's falling over and you take it down, you replace it exactly like that and it's like for like, but that doesn't usually take a year, right? And that's been gone for a long time.

I think it's been going on for over a year, hasn't it? I think it's like I think she took it down in the summer of 2024 or the late spring of 2024. The guy that died. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, that's over a year. Yeah. A year and a half. Yeah.

I just had a thought because um relative to this demolition thing, what if we started accumulating like a parking ticket? In other words, if you have a violation with the historic district like this that the building commission and any other permit relative to doing anything on your property can't be cleared

until until you resolve the the historic district commission issue because they have to come to us first anyway, right? So if there's an outstanding issue, violation if you will, um that I mean to me that would actually carry the most weight uh of anything that we could do. I'm I'm not quite following

what what I'm getting at is if if you property owner chooses to do some do something that's in violation of the historic district commission code, whatever it is, tear down a house, tear down a fence, um put up a building that's not in compliance, um you can't add an HVAC system to your house because the the people that are going to approve that are going to say, "Well, you have to get approval by us first, but you know what? We're not going to approve your HBAC until you resolve this issue." You see what I'm saying? That it's it's it's almost like But they'd have to come to us for an HBAC, too.

But what I'm saying is they can't come separately for that until they resolve this. I think we could say that. Sure. But make that I maybe it's a policy. I don't know. It just popped into my head. How can we solve these ongoing challenges? One suggestion had in the past had been um to put something on the land records. Well, it's pretty clear you can't do that. They just restrict what can go on the land records. We we have the the minutes publicizing, but yeah, it's a good question. What What else can we do

with Mr. uh Castano or whatever his name is with the AC unit up on the porch. Didn't we kind of hold him up on a few things until we had to address first things first? Right. I took a picture in Mexico in a historic district and they slap these big signs on the house that they're in violation. They had these big things. You're in violation of this. Big rats that we put up front. Can you say there was a railing that we temporarily that's still up there? Fell away. They slapped this big red thing on.

Remember that? Yes. Salinger. Salinger. Yes. So, he passed away. What do we do about the rail? Um, it was installed as a temporary thing as long as it was needed. It's not attached to the house. It's not attached to the house. I can just write a letter. Wait, which house comes from Library Lane? Why don't you add that? The greenhouse that Okay, so that's right. There was a railing there. He was sick and we just approved a temporary. Oh, yeah. It's too bad. It's nice to see him. It was okay. Martha, anything else? Um,

no. I Anything else that jumps out? They started working on the uh the beauty parlor and the Yes, that looks good. Yep, that looks good. Sorry. 62 L Street is starting to um Martha is still trying to finish her report, so I'm sorry. So, the 62 Lime Street um Mr. Monty's building there with the storefront windows. They just started working on that. We're just mentioning that. Yeah. Yeah. That's a like for like and it'll be curious whether it's in fact a like for like we'll find out soon. Those tarps come down. Okay. We'll see.

Uh new and ongoing business. The only thing I have is we'll probably hopefully be able to come in next month to have Everybody knows we had a fire. Yeah. And everything's fine. Trying to put the house back together. But as part of that, we are trying to maybe do some work that we've been envisioning trying to do. Why not? At the same time because we're not in the house right now. Really? Yeah. Yeah. We're we're we're living uh across the river. So, but so we're work just starting with an architect and hopefully we'll have not unlike what we just saw right at the corner at Rose Lane. Something about like that

I think we might be interested in doing as part of this restoration and uh so we might want to be on the docket for October as a preliminary discussion. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Great. And did that start with lightning? Isn't that incredible? Gutter and hit the gutter and the nail and the nail smoldered overnight and Jill was able to put it out with the help of the fire department. There's smoke. There was smoke damage. Smoke damage. We have two rooms that were gutted. That was it an attic? No, the the fire the fire actually started at the very foot of our south um west foundation.

Okay. Excuse me. uh Southeast Foundation. Okay. Um on the exterior, the big column and uh but the smoke came in, the fire department came in with water to, you know, get it all put out. And so we had two rooms that we we we saved the panels, the the church panels that were saved from the church fire in 1907. So that's all there. That'll you know we didn't but we had to do do demolition of all the plaster and all that all that has to do discovered as besties maybe. Yes. Yes. Keep it maybe.

Yeah. Maybe. Sorry. Yeah. So anyway, so we're hoping to have some thoughts and ideas to share and I'll recuse myself of course from any process on that. Okay. Is there a motion to adjurnn? I'll make the motion to adjurnn. I will second. Have seconds. All in favor? Thank you. We got through a huge left and