Halls Road Sidewalk Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay. We will call the meeting to order. And I don't believe Aaron has come on yet. His daughter is doing something in the way of an award or something. So he's going to join us, but maybe not immediately.

I think Chris is coming.

Yeah, he said he would.

They're doing the parade out there. So you might get caught in traffic.

Traffic, yeah. Okay, so let's see. The first item will be to review the minutes of the 13th of May, which have been sent out to you all. So may I have a motion to approve the minutes and we'll ask for discussion. Second? Second. Okay. Okay, we have moved and seconded. Is there any discussion on the minutes in a way of any changes or modifications? Seeing none. All in favor of approving the minutes, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstain? They pass. Thank you very much.

Can I make, this is Frank Morelle. I just see one error in there. It says call the order. Griswold called the meeting to order at 6134. There's an extra one in there.

100 minutes, Jim. 100 minutes. It says call Twitter at 6134. It should be just 634. Military time.

Okay. So while we're waiting for Aaron, did everybody get a copy of the meeting with DOT staff dated the 26th of May? Any of you? Okay. Martha and I were on a telephone conversation with the two folks at DOT talking about the North-South idea. And so this, I guess we can just go through this since not everyone has seen this. So she and I were talking with Aaron, and then we had Colin Horan and William Champagne. And I'm not sure what capacity each of those gentlemen are at DOT.

Colin is in charge of the grant situation. Okay. But he's also in engineering. And then Mr. Champagne is also a DOT engineer. Engineer. Okay.

Okay. So when we met last time, there was a lot of conversation about should the sidewalk be situated on the south side rather than the north side might be simpler and less costly. And it would ultimately could be a walking loop going around from Lime Street, Halls Road, 156 Ferry Road back to Lime Street. So we, let's see, we were told by Aaron, it makes sense that any switching of the sign would require the approval of DOT and require an analysis, what pitfalls it would be. We knew at the time, last time we met that the right-of-way, we did not have copies of the right-of-way documents, which may not be equal to surveys, but at least show where the right-of-way is generally. And then we were also aware that the I-95 embankment opposite the Lime Art Association Yeah, and the utility pole could present obstacles. And so Mr. Champagne indicated that there's a three foot snow shelf required in addition to the five foot sidewalk. And to be safe, he recommended nine to 10 feet should be outboard of the pavement. And along the south side, to the east of the Lime Street, there's a big utility pole right near the bridge. Now, the cars go under one arch, and then the pedestrians go through a smaller one to the west. But as you come out, there's this big pole, which you'd have to maneuver around it, hopefully not move it, because it looks like it's a big job. But then this long embankment presented a lot of concern to the DOT as to how you would have to have a fairly significant retaining wall and whether it would even be permitted because that's I-95. There might be some concern you're taking away material supporting I-95. Yeah, that's probably dry piles, cheap piles.

It's quite involved. That's what probably killed the whole thing.

Yeah. And they also were talking about the roadbed configuration, but we really weren't talking about moving the road in that location. And then we talked about 17 curb cuts up along the north side versus probably half a dozen on the south side. But Mr. Champagne said that Curb cuts are not that tough and not that expensive to do. When we did our little walk around the highway shopping center, we'll call it, I think up near Davis Road there was a guy wire that would have to be moved or put a spreader on it to get it so you could walk under it and so forth. You know, a bunch of stuff to do. And I think at the gas station coming out of the Big Y, the pole is mounted in a big bank there. So probably there would have to be some work to make a sidewalk go past that. And then... And what did he say about treasures? Well, treasures, there was... I think that was another thing that was pointed out that you'd have to have reduced the amount of access to Treasurer's stretch of pavement. Right now, you just pull in anywhere, but probably, I know in Soundview, when there was a longer stretch of pavement, they had to put a curb or some little island type thing so that it restricts the width of the access to the property. Can I jump in? Yeah, sure.

Initially, after the grant was provided to us, we had... Aaron and I called Brett and asked him what he wanted. And then Brett said, I've already looked into this. So he'd gone over to Formage when they put the sidewalks in in Saybrook. And he said, I would like the same type of setup as Formage does. So that was noted. And in the new design, that would be taken into consideration. And we understand his whole backup situation and how much room he's got.

Again, going back to what you said, why do we have to have the five-foot snow shelf? Or three-foot? Sabrec doesn't have any of that.

I think it's because it's a different type of road. it's more...

Both were one.

I know that. But it's developed a little differently than what it is.

Maybe because of pre-existing conditions, everything.

When you put a sidewalk in, you're supposed to have... And I know that the sidewalks weren't completed in Saybrook this past winter. They were still doing some construction on them.

Yeah, they're still working on them now.

And through Westbrook. And that was a joint thing. I don't know who did their engineering, but

I know that- The same fellow that's doing ours.

Colin and Aaron did the engineering for Saybrook and Westbrook. But they were on, we had a meeting initially before I even applied for the grant with 20 engineers. They looked at Halls Road from every single aspect. And they said, you're better off doing the north side because the embankment, after you go over, if you turn left onto Halls Road from here and you go over the Lieutenant River, The embankment on the left-hand side is extremely steep and you are going to have to fill. And there are, I think, three telephone poles down in the embankment. They don't look tall from you because they're actually in the embankment going down, but they are there. And those would all have to be re-justified.

I'm a little curious if we could possibly do like a combination of the two things. Like we come over, and we'd often talked already about a crossing at the post office, right, to get over to the other plaza, to get over to the hideaway plaza. So what if it came over the bridge at the existing place, then the sidewalk crosses over at the post office with a crosswalk, and then continues up the big Y side, that way you would eliminate all those crossings of school children over multiple, multiple openings and closings. I mean, I think to me, it's not the money for the curb cuts. It's like putting kids in the way of like teen traffic comings and goings. I mean, why are we doing that?

When you come off the bridge, anybody that's coming off the bridge now is going to have to cross 156, And then they're going to have to cross across Route 1. And we all know what the traffic's like there, especially in the summertime.

Well, you've got all new crosswalks and crosswalk lights going in the next year, year and a half.

Again, it's still going to be difficult to cross as opposed to most people that are going down the sidewalks would be heading on the other side of the road.

Inside curve. Yeah. But you're saying that you would have to have a huge retaining wall against 95. And I understand that that could be problematic, too.

You don't necessarily have to build. There were supposed to be a support walkway and it may not be built. You have to wait. We'll see what the design is. The one that you saw on paper from BSC is just a rough sketch of what we anticipated. But once we get the surveys, because they have changed over the years, and once the surveyors are done, we'll know more what we're doing. So we really and truly shouldn't even waste our breath right now until the surveys come back.

Well, when we, in terms of a crosswalk at the post office, if that was going to be a real, you have to cross type thing. I know the DOT was, when we talked about this before, way before this, the DOT was not in favor of another traffic light there.

Not a light, just a crosswalk like they have at the other one.

You know, they put in another crosswalk.

Somebody, Frank, Frank, Frank has to mute.

We're getting a lot of feedback.

Just mute and then you can leave the talk. It'll be okay.

Aaron, can you hear us?

Yep, I can hear you.

Okay. Can you hear me? Okay, good. Feedback seems to...

Does anyone have their phone here?

I think it might be Aaron. Let me see what I can do here.

Aaron, you can just mute until you're going to talk.

Sounds good. I'll do that.

Everybody should be on mute when they're not talking.

Because this is Jacobson's number, isn't it?

No, that's Frank Morelli in the blue. Frank, can you please mute yourself until you want to speak? Turn off your mic. Thank you. It's technology. It has its own rules.

Does a mute symbol show up on that?

He's still on.

Well, the blue ribbon went off, so.

So is there any sense that we could do a combination of those things? I mean.

The purpose of this committee was not to choose a side. The side had already been decided.

Then what is our job?

Your job is once the surveys are done, you can probably take July off because they're going to come back. Then they're going to start doing designs. Then they're going to start asking you for feedback. And that was part of what you're supposed to do.

Feedback on what?

Well, right.

It seems like a fed up.

They're going to be options.

Yeah. Well, what kind of options?

Well, Aaron can give you more of that. But once they start to do the design, there's going to be options on how you handle it. Just like the change orders were for the senior center. Things came up. We had to make decisions and we had the committee. to make decisions.

Well, I guess when we were there, there was talk about having a sidewalk go away from Halls Road up to the stone wall of the Hideaway Shopping Center, go through the platter. And so I guess that could be something good, better, and different. And the surveying of the north side has been started. it was pretty well concluded in the meeting that the selectmen have given us the charge to implement the plan. We questioned it and it seemed like it's not an easy thing just to say, okay, Southside's a heck of a lot better. Let's do that. It has some advantages, but also apparently it's been looked at thoroughly by engineers and DOT and

I guess my main concern is that is that was contingent on something that was a much larger project. And so when that was sort of conceived, it was part of a bigger project at hand. And that agenda drove how that would work. And I wonder where that where we are in that process. You know, if you know what I mean, it's like, yeah. Are we serving – I mean, you say the projects are different. You say that the bridge, the Bow Bridge project and everything else, we shouldn't think of that, and they're not. But, Martha, they are. It's all a piece, though. If that bridge goes forward and we're planning the sidewalk because we believe that in the future that we're going to build that bridge, then – It is a piece. It is all a piece. It's organic.

People on the federal side are telling us they don't want us to do anything on the south side because they're not sure what they're going to be doing on 95. I get that. I understand that. And they don't want to change lanes. So when you put sidewalk in on that side, they are not willing to move. DOT said, we're not willing to take out the sidewalk on the other side, the existing one that's there now going over the river. It's not a great one. We're not willing to move that and shift lanes, move lanes. They're not willing to do that. So you do not have enough room to have sidewalks on both sides. So you have to choose one. And the north side is the one that after a two-hour meeting with them, with them going up and down with Google Earth, pulling up schematics that they had, they said, this is the side we would prefer you start with. And if you'd like to put sidewalks in at another time on the other side, we'll be further down the road with our plans and we'll know what we're doing on going 95 south. They also told us in that meeting, there are other grants that we will be able to apply for, not only for the north side, but also for the south side in the future. And some of those come with more money, up to $3 million.

I think the Lieutenant River present bridge poses a problem because on the north side, you have a lift. I think the concrete is actually goes up a few inches to make a sidewalk. Otherwise, it's bituminous, which is no big deal. So to simply move the lanes to the north, you have that. I guess that could be kind of a bike lane, but there is a lift there. And I don't know how you could chisel that out if you had to.

But still, I understand the Embankment 95. I get all that. I think there's a really valid argument about that. But then when we get to the post office side at Andy's, what stops us from having one of those blinking cross lights to go over to the post office side, which is really... And then going up on the big Y side, which... just to me, makes so much more sense to not put people in all those. And we're going to have all this, like each one of those curb cuts is going to be like this sidewalk that's going to go up and down and up and down. And people are going to be crossing pretty busy entrances and exits. Does anybody else feel that way?

Well, they have a potential buyer for the Hideaway Plaza that's working out of jinx and they're probably going to redo.

Have the merchants been asked about the sidewalk on the north side? Do they welcome it, do you think, in general? Pardon me?

The merchants, he said.

Well, like the shopping center, hideaway shopping center, you know, handies and then, you know, you get to the bank and Dunkin' Donuts and so forth. Are they welcoming it? Obviously, the south side could be going along and you can enter one way or the other into the shopping center. But I just wonder if the merchants are really saying, yeah, we would welcome the sidewalk on the north side.

They've been asking for the sidewalk on the north side for a long time, Tim. even when you are in office, because of the fact that so many students walk to the dance recital. The dance recital place, they walk to Andy's. There are some that work within the plaza, some at Hideaway Summit. And they walk there, they walk to Dunkin' Donuts. Some of them work there in the late afternoon before they close. There are reasons. Now they use the new station, gas station, They go there for snacks because they have food. They have pizza. They have hot things. They're there as well. There are very few that if you talk to the kids, they'll tell you they go to that side more. Guarantee there is a sidewalk there. So it is safer at that point. I mean, it's not a big, great one, but it is some. But that is where they walk. And that's where they frequent. I mean. Andy probably knows everything.

That sidewalk exists now, though.

Yes, I know that, but it's not a true sidewalk. It's not a safe sidewalk.

So what would be like the big chain, like it would be a big wider sidewalk going over the bridge and everything? Yeah, five feet. On the bridge itself, they're going to put an extension.

Aaron can tell you all this, but we're not there yet.

Yeah.

We have to get the survey done. Sure. And that's why... We're really and truly waiting for the survey.

So we might as well just wait till the survey.

That's right.

So the survey will though strictly be on that side and it will not look at the other side at all.

It's time. Now, I don't know what the, whether the big, the Olympe Storrs folks, I don't know what their interest in having a sidewalk along the south side, you know, they might want to do something. They might.

Yeah, put that state.

They may be interested in putting in sidewalks from Halls Road into the plaza because they have sidewalks on the store sides, but they have no access in. So maybe they could be a partner in the future and help us along.

Well, I think since Aaron's here and on the clock, we ought to ask him for input. And then, you know, going forward, it seems to me that we're probably going to have a hard time pushing for a south side sidewalk. And Aaron has, you've begun the survey work on the north side, Aaron, have you?

Yes, I believe the survey has done the research for the property lines and the state right-of-way, but... As far as the field topographic survey, I'm not sure if they've actually – oh, they've actually located pins. I saw that. But as far as the topographic survey, that's still to be determined.

Would the pins be from a DOT survey or the right-of-way or what? Some of them.

The one I saw, I just peeked into their drawing earlier this week, and they had some – what looked like CHD monuments. So that would be the, you know, the DOT monuments. Yeah, they're really establishing the property and street line now.

Are those monuments tantamount to a survey or they might just be, they have to be confirmed that they're the correct?

Correct. Yeah. Yep. That's what, that's, that's the license survey part, you know, so they're, they're going to develop a plan with topographic survey, basically identifying anything you see on the ground, Um, and then also, you know, the property lines and the street line, uh, they'll put all that and really, that's really our, our starting point, you know, from, uh. You know, what we're going with is that that concept drawing, uh, we'll have topographic survey. That'll basically be an update of of what they had. Um. What I envision doing is is going through here, laying out the best scenario sidewalk. And then meeting with you, you all, and actually probably provide it with you in advance, um, showing you what can work. And then getting your feedback on that, uh, as far as the layout, you know, do you want, uh, we talked about the hideaway, you know, do you want it back against the property or the street line? Or do you want it, you know, up against the curb or do you want a snow shelf? That kind of things and then what I can discuss as we go along is the pros and cons of of those decisions, you know, um, and also. Yeah, that's pretty much it. But at this stage, we don't really have anything to talk about, you know, design-wise. But, you know, hoping to get that to you as soon as we can.

Okay.

What sort of a timeline do you believe would be for the survey that would be something we could look at?

Probably July. I think there are survey crews getting pushed back. So, um, July, and then I would need some time to, you know, to work with it and, um, really put something on the, on the plans that, uh, that can be built. You know, I don't want to provide a concept that can't be built. Um, cause if you all agree upon it and then I get in trouble. So, um, yeah, so it'll take a little time. So honestly, um, you know, with the survey, if you want to just look at the survey, that's one thing, you know, as soon as that maps developed, I can provide that to you, but, um, probably another month after that. Uh, so maybe like August, uh, having some survey with some, uh, you know, concept sidewalks, uh, also with that, you know, the, um, we had, uh, site lighting proposed in the, um, plans. We also have the boardwalk, so those are things that I can present to you guys with some options. So that would that would be some decision making process of, you know, what style lighting I don't know if there's a standard light that the town uses. If so, that that may decision may be already be made, but. Um, also, you know, even I know there's a big concern. The last meeting was the overall cost of the project and with respect to what. Funding amount is available, so there may be decisions on, you know, limiting the number of lights or or maybe we put conduit in and obtain funding in a different future thing for for site lights and stuff like that. So those are just decisions to be made. There'll be plenty to talk about once once we have a plan sitting in front of us, but we just don't have that yet. Right.

Yeah, that bank near the gas station, which has the light pole for the stoplight going into Big Y, that's very, very close to the road. And I don't know. I guess you'll be looking at that, of course. But you might have – I don't know if you could go behind that thing or move it or what, but just put it in. Yeah.

And then also with this – I believe it's, you know, Brett's property. That was a concern. So, you know, we got, we got to work through what to do with that. And that's a lot of court. Well, not a lot, but a coordination with the state about what would be acceptable because, you know, they, they, they kind of, I want, I want to speak nicely, but sometimes they're, they're a hard target to miss or to start hard target to hit on what they would require and what they would allow. So I just need to sit down with them, show some proposed options and see what they find acceptable. I'm sorry, go ahead.

And just see what Brett can work with it because he knows about those requirements. Sorry.

And, you know, the other thing, just, you know, last meeting, a picture of bollards that were from old saybookers brought in. Just to put that to rest, that's not a requirement. That would not be a requirement in this scenario. But that's the things we need to work through. So hopefully, I don't know if Brett is there or not, but, you know, if there's a fear that you're going to have big, bright blue bollards sticking out of your property, I wouldn't be too worried about that.

Okay, well, we, you know, we looked at your proposal, the engineering proposal. And I think the this was going back to January of 26. And it totaled out between consulting 65, 350 and Jacobson itself, $107,900, which was $173,250. So we have money from last year, which I think is close to $79,000. And then the budget was approved for $200,000 addition. So it looks like we have about 100,000 more than this estimate. Not that we want you to go spend it, but it seems like we're in pretty good shape for the engineering. And then, of course, once that happens, what do you figure all this engineering timeline would be? A year or what do you figure?

Yeah, I think a year. I... As my home computer, I'm not as savvy with it as I am at work, so fumbling around here, but. Let's see. Yeah, I I think a year. Uh. Let's see here. You know, just kind of, I'll just run through the task real quick, obviously, the survey. We need to get wetlands flag marked out. Also, due to the structure, we'll have some borings completed. We will have a couple meetings with the state, you know, just to basically get them to sign off on a few of the plans. And then we have permitting. The permitting, you know, it'd be the Inland Wetlands Water Force Commission. The design is actually in a floodplain, so we'd have to do a flood management certification. I mentioned district two sign off. And then all of this, also, sorry, do a public involvement meeting. So to bring this, you know, sort of a, probably a 90% plan. at least what you guys would agree on and what you'd feel comfortable presenting to the public. I believe that's part of the funding requirement. And then once we get that signed off on, we really get into the final design, really get down to the fine details. And that's where you start putting together the specifications, the contract documents, the bidding documents, really putting spot elevations in the detailed information. opinion of probable costs of the project. Yeah, and then go out to bid. One of the big items that takes a long time and would be really a decision of the committee, what I'm going to present you with probably is some locations of where the sidewalk would be better fit on, I'm guessing, you know, that if we took, you know, put the sidewalk on private property, That would be decisions like, here's the upside of that and the downside of that. However, where I'm going with that is if any permanent easements would be required and that would be required if. The sidewalk ended up on somebody's private property. Obtaining those easements tend to take a long time. Just generally they do so. It's 1 of those things like a hurry up and wait, we get this thing to 90% and we have, you know, proposed easements. And then it's really handed over to the town attorney, and they pursue those easements. But you can lose a year on that. It's not uncommon. So generally speaking, I attempt to keep it in the state right-of-ways, just because I know that timeline can get away from you. But that's a potential problem.

Aaron, I remember another thing on Ferry Road was that we had a power pole that there was a guy wire that we had. We asked, I think, I guess, I don't know whether it was a telephone or electric, but I think the job was done. They still hadn't done it. So, you know, moving guy wires or moving poles even are another big deal.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a, that's a, you know, that's anybody's guess. So just generally speaking, how I do, you know, sidewalks is, you know, I try to avoid, obviously keep it in the right of way. I don't want to go after easements and I don't want to relocate any utilities, utility poles, but at the same time, I don't want this thing. I don't want the sidewalk to, zigzagging around look like it was afterthought, you know, so you try to put it in, make it look like it's, it fits in there like it was intended to do. So, um, that's, that's at least the goal anyway. But sometimes, sometimes you got to move a utility pole and sometimes, you know, sometimes you got to end up on somebody's property. Um, but generally speaking, I do everything I can do to, to not have that happen.

Aside from lighting, what other amenities shall we call it? Are you contemplating like plants or trees and all that stuff?

Yeah, plant. We did not incorporate a landscape architect in here, but plants and trees, you know, to my limited knowledge on that, maybe somebody in the Commission has a lot more knowledge on that, but we can we can propose. You know what, whatever you'd like. Obviously, you know, native plants would be preferred. But let me...

I mean, is that in the engineering task at all, or that's kind of an extra?

To an extent. Obviously, if you want to start doing some decorative stuff, but if you want to call out a few trees and a few shrubs and you tell me where you want it, you know, I can put it in and that would be included in. I'm not going to, but, you know, there's, you could take that really far. You know, we're not, I wouldn't be doing any decorative landscaping. Let's just put it like that.

But Martha, didn't you say that later on you could apply for grants too?

Yep, we can do that. Mm-hmm. You can do things to enhance your downtown area. So there's Main Street USA.

And that does stuff with plants and things like that?

They offer different things every year. There's something unique, and it can be $25,000, $175,000. It depends on what you want. But we're happy to work together while all of you put things together. Thanks.

And just in my experience, I literally have a project going on now that was the first phase was just the sidewalks. And then the second phase was under a different funding source. But that second phase funding source included the lighting for the first phase. So it's they're very, you know, they want to spend this money on, you know, sidewalks and beautification and stuff like that. So they're very accommodating when it comes to stuff like that.

Probably the lighting would have to be part of your plan if you're going to have underground wiring and all that stuff.

Yeah, when it comes to like that, generally, you know, the site lighting, if you're doing like a decorative lighting along the sidewalk, you know, you would typically just run a conduit along there you try to um and then what happens is is when you decide where those sidewalks go you would basically just you know cut down um far enough back that you can do sweeps and put in a foundation and put in a light so it's really just by putting in the conduit at this stage you've done really that um soil disturbance all that with the sidewalk soil disturbance so that's sort of all done and then when you come back and put in this the lighting it really minimizes the amount of um you know disturbance that you you have to do and also cost too you know you don't want to start digging up against a sidewalk that you just you know the longitudinally along a side

Did I understand correctly that as far as requirements for the grant money, lighting is not necessarily a requirement. Is that correct?

Correct, yeah. Yeah, lighting is not a requirement for this.

Just so we know what our options are. We could even inventory what lighting there is.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Tim, I just want you to be aware there's a meeting here at 7.30. It's now 7.12.

Okay. So just timing, we probably, if we have a meeting, which I think is, oh, gosh, the 8th of July, that's probably too soon to have anything tangible to look at, isn't it?

I would think so. If I tell you, if I get a piece of paper with the, you know, the topographic survey on it or multiple papers, I can make that available to you and you can make that available to the committee. And then, you know, in the meantime, I would. Yeah, like I said, I think I think August would be probably a more reasonable time to actually have something substantial on on that on the design.

You can probably take July off. And then he can send you the topography, and you can have it to study for August. And then he'll have more information for you come August.

Anybody have any more points they want to discuss there now? Nope. Me? Okay. Go back and work with your daughter.

Yeah, I got to learn about toads. That's what we're doing.

Oh, boy. Yeah. What? Okay, so just in the interest of time, anybody, any public comment?

Can I just ask a couple of questions? Who's going to own this side of the line? Town Hall line or the individual property owners that it passes? The Town Hall line. Town Hall line. Who's going to plow and sand it?

Is that right, Aaron? If we put the sidewalk in, it's the property of the town, or is it really the property of the state and we have to maintain it?

No, it would be the property of the town, yes, and the town would be responsible for maintaining it. As for clearing snow, that comes down to the town charter specifically, so that's different based on different towns, and I do not know what it is for Old Lyme.

And we don't have one? We don't have it in our, we don't have it.

And he's going to have to hire some more people to take care of the silo.

No, because there's, like I just said to you, we don't have snow removal in our charters. So I gave it to them at the first meeting that this is something else that we're going to have to start to think about. Because according to all the records, it was never an agreement to do Lime Street. It just started to be done. It was supposed to be just to do The schools were doing the school sidewalks. We were supposed to do town hall, and it grew into a bigger thing.

We didn't have any slip and fall insurance issues or anything like that. In other words, if somebody didn't have ice on the sidewalks and somebody fell, would the town have any life?

Well, that's why we get involved with other towns that have done this similarly, but they haven't had any problems. But certainly talking to Carl in Old Saybrook, and some of the other towns in Westbrook and the different selectmen along the way. They put in sidewalks. What do they do? Waterford had put in sidewalks from their town green down to their historical building.

So we need to figure that out, but we have

Probably four years before we have to worry about that. So that's the long-term project.

Yeah, we have them in halls. I mean, we have them across Lane, down in Soundview.

How do other towns do it? And we'll find that out. Even in Chester, they have sidewalks in front of them.

And Essex is still dry.

And Essex. And so talking at River Cod to those leaders and saying, how do you handle it? And what do you use? Not everybody uses a plow like we do. Many of them have snowblowers of what they do, but a lot in the residential areas, the residents are expected to do it themselves.

We did buy a snowblower.

We did.

The thing, tractor for Ed years ago, probably 10 years ago, specifically for Lyon Street to do everything. So. And, you know, obviously the town maintains the sidewalks and is responsible for the sidewalks.

Well, according to Tim, Bonnie, and Ed, it started to grow. Oh, I believe that. You know, and now it's very low. And when is it going to end? How many towns do you know plow the sidewalks in residential areas? Yeah.

Well, the more you put in, the more likely it's going to be one of those rules. You have 24 hours to remove the snow.

And I don't believe in that. I mean, that's, you know, you're forcing a sidewalk on someone. And now all of a sudden you've got to pay taxes, but you've got to clear the road for the town. That's not right. So if they own it, they own it.

I know in West Hartford, everybody has that.

We're not West Hartford.

Well, that's probably... beyond the scope of our committee, but... Can we let Aaron go?

Because he's on the clock. He's paid off. Go, go, go, Aaron.

All right, bye. Thank you.

Thank you for... Gotta save the engineering money. Be with the toads.

Okay, then we... The next step, I think we got the next step. There's going to be some engineering... information coming up probably by the August meeting. And in the budget, I outlined that very briefly looks like we have 270 between the two pots of money. And when we looked at the grant, the DOT people said the grant doesn't have to be done by a certain, doesn't have to be started by a date certain, doesn't have to be completed by a date certain. I think I'm correct. He was pretty flexible in saying, if you want to extend it or whatever, it's easy. We did that with Ferry Road, which was a steep grant, small town economic assistance. We got a one year extension with no problem. So it's not like this money's got to be used by a certain date.

They just ask that we'll have to do periodic updates of where we are.

Yeah, probably quarterly filings or something.

Yeah, not so much with financials, but just giving them a written summary of where we are.

So is there any other business that people want to talk about? I'm hearing none. I guess we will plan on that meeting in July and we will, the August meeting is the 12th and it will be in the meeting hall. Then we have to, because you get into budgets and stuff like that, we start bumping around in smaller rooms, but we're small anyway. Big idea is small. No.

Well, geez, the, geez. Early, what's the primary date? Anybody know? You may not be here August 12th. You might be in another room, depending on early voting for primary. I don't know what it is.

Well, if we get bumped, we can adjust. We can always find a place. But usually primaries are on a Tuesday.

Yeah, but early voting has a week before. I'm just looking it up.

Yeah. All right. Well, if there's nothing more, we can entertain a motion to adjourn. Who's going to make the motion? Motion to adjourn. Second? Second. I'll give it to him.

All in favor? Aye. And adjourn.