Ethics Commission - Regular Meeting

Secretary and Nicole Duailleur.

I'm here.

Members of the Commission. So. Taking this into account, our two today's guests are two candidates for the Commission on Ethics. Welcome. Thank you for submitting your application and for your interest. So, we will immediately move on to the agenda. The first item on the agenda for the Commission members was the approval of the meeting protocol on July 14.

I propose to accept.

поддерживаю хорошо есть какие-либо обсуждения нет кто за я хорошо я тест первый пункт принят я согласен хорошо хорошо второй пункт представление кандидатов в комиссию и прежде чем мы перейдем к этому я хочу сделать два заявления и комментарии First of all, I want to clarify the rule of law on the freedom of information regarding your statement and your right to consider it in an open or closed regime for the public. The reason for this is the protection of confidentiality or issues of private nature that you may have. So, e. In other cases, when a commission, council or committee goes to a closed meeting, it is closed to the public. and the approval of two-thirds of the Committee or Commission members is required to allow a closed meeting. In the event of an appointment similar to the one we are holding tonight, you, as a representative, have the right to agree or not to agree, or to express your preferences, since we cannot go to a closed meeting on confidentiality, if you want the meeting to be public and open. Therefore, I will ask each of you a question. Do you have any concerns about confidentiality or not disclosing information as we discuss? It can be an open meeting or a closed one, as you prefer. You may have the same or different preferences.

We don't record when the meeting is closed.

No, yes, it is.

We don't record. I block it. I have no objections to an open meeting.

Good. So, I also have no objections. Good. Excellent. Thank you. Good. The second point, and I want to read the statement on disclosure of information for the protocol, and I will give you a copy of this quote. Or I, more precisely, we will attach it to the protocol. Good. So, before we start considering your statements, I just want to disclose information for the protocol regarding my participation in the assessment of one of the candidates, Vivian. Vivian is an old friend of our family, and professionally she previously worked as a realtor and helped me and my wife buy a house in Old Lyme almost 10 years ago. And I also assume that, perhaps, in September I will enter the board of directors, a member of which is Vivian, in a non-profit organization to provide housing for elderly people. I discussed these circumstances with the city lawyer, and from our conversation I realized that these factors are not a direct conflict of interests and do not require my withdrawal from the voting or the interview process. But for the sake of extra caution, to protect the honesty and impartiality of the process of consideration of the Commission, as well as to avoid any impression of favoritism, pretentiousness or inappropriate behavior, I decided that I would not, or rather, abstain from conducting an interview with Vivian, as well as abstain from participating in the discussion and voting on her candidacy. Good. Nevertheless, I will continue to fulfill the administrative duties of the Chairman of the Behavior and Moderation Assembly in accordance with the agenda of the day, but, I repeat, I will not participate in the substantive consideration of the candidacy of this statement. I am not sure. So, I am making this statement so that the reasons for the restriction of my participation are clearly formulated and reflected in the protocol.

Excellent, excellent statement.

Well, thank you. In any case, once this is over, it sounds like an ethical act. I'm glad you're in the commission. Yes.

That's exactly what it's all about.

Of course. Yes, of course. I just want to be honest and I think we all want this. That's why I wanted to make this statement and include it in the protocol. So we could move on to the discussion, to the interview process, if you want to call it that. Yes, and we have both of your applications. They were sent electronically to all members of the Commission. Yes, maybe we could start, and I suggest to each of you, if you want, or if you have a desire, to introduce yourself to other members of the Commission and me. If not, we can immediately move on to questions. Or, if you have questions, you know, do not hesitate to ask them at any time. Yes, I do not know, did you want to make some kind of introductory or introductory statement? Something, something, what do you want to share?

I just say.

Yes.

I, I, I'm fine. In general, about myself, I have lived in Old Lime since 1994. My husband grew up here, finished school here, and when we thought where to live, I wanted to choose Old Lime, because I considered it very charming. All my life I was a product of corporate transfers, from the Fairfield district, and I really liked the atmosphere of a small town, the opportunity to raise our child, sorry, we have only one child, in a permanent and stable environment. Therefore, I was quite happy to move here. As for my career, I worked in corporate personnel services for the first half of it, and there were several main areas. One of them is the international department, associated with personnel policy in places, implementation of rules, then the international compensation system, and later labor relations at the corporate level in the company with sales offices and factories throughout the country. Then, for about seven years, I worked in Hartford in United Hilt Car. It was the work of a consultant on labor relations, where you have to solve issues that require confidentiality, impartiality and analysis of situations, because HR is balancing between the interests of the leadership and the protection of the rights of employees. Therefore, trust, ethical behavior, objectivity, deliberation and the ability to solve problems are critically important skills. And when this stage naturally came to an end, I thought, what should I do? What do I like? I realized that my skills are mostly consultative. And I thought, I've always liked it at home. I will sell real estate. Who would have thought? And so, fortunately, I have been working as an real estate agent for the last 20-22 years. My office manager called me the best secret agent, because I'm not very comfortable with the sales process, but I'm doing great with the consulting part. In general, this is my professional path. My son went through the old-line education system from Ida. And we are very pleased with this system. I think it is important to participate in the life of society. I was a member of the Council of Directors of the Lyme Youth Bureau, again, because it was related to the family, which is very close to me. And then one of my colleagues said, we need a member of the Council in Lyme Woods. I asked, what is Limewood? This is, well, in general, a non-profit organization in Old Lime. Perhaps you saw it there, right on Route 1. It provides subsidized housing for elderly people. And the functions of the board of directors are there, unlike LVSB, where the board mainly collects funds, as you probably know, well, not so much management as such. Of course, there is financial supervision, but this is primarily an advice on collecting funds. This is their main task. While in Linwood, the main mission is to control the work of a professional management company. So this is completely, completely different. But again, the balance of objectivity and justice is critically important here. In general, this is where I am now.

Okay. Yes, my name is Chris Roy. I grew up in Connecticut, studied at a college in Boston and there I started my career in commercial banking. For the last 18 years or so, I worked as a commercial creditor, mainly in the banks of Boston, and then in California on the west coast. I also worked in private credit funds in 2020, when the pandemic began. We were 3,000 miles from the family, without supervision of the children, so we decided to gather and return to Easton. We stopped at my brother's house in Point O'Woods, in his beach house, and planned to buy housing in the area of ​​Boston. But we really liked the time in Old Lime, here they just put the house for sale next door, twice cheaper than we were going to spend there, so we completely changed our plans and made Old Lime our home. Now I have a fifth-grader and a second-grader, they go to the Volt-Lime school. And yes, returning to my career as a commercial creditor. I think, like you said about the balance, the work of a commercial creditor is always balancing between convincing the client to accept the conditions of a bank or private credit fund. And then you need to convince the bank to justify the risk of providing the borrower with capital. And for those who may not know, every commercial loan is accompanied by a set of legal documents that both the borrower and the creditor must comply with. Therefore, it is critically important to accurately formulate the position of each loan agreement so that the legal language reflects the true intentions of the parties. To this day, I have worked with hundreds of borrowers, maybe even thousands. In various institutions, companies at different stages, from technological startups at the seed stage to large distributors. So, I saw a little bit of everything. Again, you need to work out the wording very carefully and then guide them very carefully. Because, as our lawyer will certainly confirm here, if the wording is not made very carefully, she will make a calculation. Yes, she will have to spend a lot of time on this. So, I have never, never worked in any public commission. But you know, recently, seeing the formulations that we discussed at the Assembly of Citizens, I, you know, began to study these texts. And, you know, it's funny, even when you make credit documents, they are viewed, well, let's say, from 5 to 12 people, and then you don't even suspect that the initial idea was missed, until the problem appears after 12 or 18 months. And then everyone starts in a hurry to look for a solution. So I raised a couple of questions at the assembly of residents that we discussed. You know, I then published them on Facebook on the city forum. EE, which, I think, were quite indisputable moments, and it seems to me that they are justified from the point of view of most people who have met my post. I'm not sure if you know this. EE, but, you know, this is in combination with the fact that EE people called me to start showing activity, led me to submit a statement. That's how I ended up here. So, yes, thank you for your attention. Of course. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. I think, perhaps, on the other hand, we could open a session of questions, if they are at the members of the Commission, to any of the candidates.

Did you understand that, offering us to determine or list every violation of ethics, you asked us to do the impossible?

I think you attribute to me what I did not say. Therefore, I, perhaps, ask to clarify what exactly you mean. Your proposal is that we should list violations of ethics.

I have no problem with giving examples of what is a violation of ethics, but insist on the fact that we would find out everything that someone could have done that would qualify as a violation or would be acceptable. It seemed to me that this was counterproductive.

I am still not sure that I understand what it is about.

We can wake up after 18 months and say, God, we didn't even think about it. Maybe you will explain your common position, but I am not sure that I understand the essence. Let us hear in more detail about your claims to the Code, and then decide what to do next.

Yes, you see, I haven't studied the entire ethics code, but regarding the proposed changes that have recently been introduced, mm, it seems to me that you, perhaps, are talking about canceling the 100-dollar threshold.

No, no, absolutely not. No, it's not about the threshold. At some point you said that it is necessary to list everything that is a violation of ethics, and I believe that this is the way back, because it is impossible to predict everything that can happen.

I don't think I've ever used the word list in the last 20 years, so I don't quite understand what you're talking about. These are my words. Yes, so I can't exactly say what you're talking about. All that comes to mind were three moments, but one of them is the cancellation of the 100-dollar threshold. Well, let me just voice my three points. Maybe you can help me understand what you are leaning towards. But one of the points is the cancellation of the 100-dollar threshold or its replacement for a significant benefit, and our lawyer will certainly confirm that the 100-dollar threshold is for Potential financial benefits are quite a clear and understandable criterion. And significant benefit turns into a rather extensive gray area. Do you agree with this?

No.

True, you can determine what is significant benefit.

That's the problem. For me, this is a swamp that drags us. If we cannot give an exact definition, so that it serves as a guide for city employees and officials, we did not help the city much. I guess you confirm my argument.

Well. We had a definition of $ 100. Yes. We removed it and replaced it with a significant benefit for people in a similar position, which is also not determined. So explain to me, please, how is it clearer and more useful for the city than to say that any city official or employee who has received a profit of $ 100 and more should report that it is more understandable for residents and for city officials who must live according to these rules.

These are employees and officials should live with it. But now is not the time for debates. You, you yourself raised this dispute.

And it seems impossible to say that the significant benefit for people in the starting position is defined more clearly than the threshold of $ 100. May I? Well, let's put it aside.

Yes.

GM.

But then we need to mention.

Yes.

In fact, any significant benefit. What is a significant benefit?

This is also $ 100. Correct.

Ultimately, this is also a monetary benefit.

Correct. What is the amount? Итак, я. Скажем так, допустим, я живу в доме стоимостью 5 миллионов долларов и получаю выгоду в 5000 долларов. Угу. Для меня это не так уж существенно, верно?

I mean, I think, what, let me just share my point of view. So, most of my work is to check policies for universities, employers, other institutions and cities. And my view on such things is that this is a living document, right? You make changes to it, based on the situations that arose. what you have learned in these situations and you are trying to make the wording better than they were before, but this does not mean that you always get it right. Therefore, I think it is important that we remain open to questions like these. Yes, the positions work in practice and continued to receive feedback, because it will only push you.

And I know that Vivian will agree, because she has worked with employees for so many years. And, in my opinion, a complaint about ethical considerations is the last step in worsening relations. Someone is so angry at a colleague or a city official that he complains about ethics. And partly our job is to see if we can discharge the situation and restore it.

collegial relations instead of this but but but let's say I want to say that I think that such a way of thinking assumes that any complaint is an attack on someone but I don't think that the ethics code should be exactly like that

Oh, he doesn't have to.

We don't. He, he, he needs to protect the city from unscrupulous people. That's right, we don't. Therefore, the assumption that any complaint is an attack leads me to the next point, which even concerns the opportunity to file a complaint. With the new wording, this has become an impenetrable task for any ordinary person who is not a lawyer or has not hired a lawyer, to have the opportunity to go and file a complaint with the demand to impose a time of proof on the plaintiff.

I don't think it's possible, because you can always come to the commission and just ask, is this situation an ethical issue? I am not in the commission. Just ask.

Just ask.

That is, you object to the complaint containing evidence of violation. The bar for the plaintiff was raised. You read. Let me first correct this before discussing the wording.

I read, I read, I read the proposal. No, but, Chris, if you will. Yes, there are two standards. There were two levels.

What you say is actually wrong.

The first level is the presence of sufficient grounds to assume that there may be evidence that a reasonable person has enough to allow the violation of the Code.

могло иметь место, могло иметь место.

Второй, это когда вы устанавливаете, что нарушение произошло на основе ясных и убедительных доказательств. Вы смешиваете эти два понятия. Но чтобы получить слушание, чтобы получить слушание, нужно предоставить. Нет, не нужно. Все, что нужно сделать, это предоставить достаточно доказательств, чтобы разумный человек заподозрил, что нарушение могло произойти.

Yes, well, then we should look.

Yes, I think, you, I really think that you are mixing these two concepts. Well, maybe we move on to the question of intentions in contrast to the formulas you have. Yes, let me say something else. Well, we all have a text in front of our eyes. No, that's right, that's right. I just want to say that I don't think we should dive too deep into your Facebook comments. I mean, I know what you said and, well, these are essentially the same comments that I made when we talked. You sent them to the city council. And you have the right to your own opinion. Like all of us, of course. So, I think, we should not dig too deep into these statements. I think, from our point of view, when evaluating your candidacy, it would be better to consider this in the context of what awaits us in the future, okay? What would be your approach to the ambiguous term? What would be your approach to the accusation? And how would you avoid hasty conclusions without proper listening to all the evidence or all the facts related to this accusation? So I would suggest that we try to formulate questions from a perspective point of view. Because I respect your right to express your opinion. This is normal. Well, this is exactly how I imagine the work of the Commission. Formulations are proposed, and then they are finalized during discussions. And I want to support Nikol. Yes, as the old saying goes, the best is the enemy of the good. Yes, we have made changes to improve the previous code. Are they perfect? No, I think no one at this table would say that they are perfect. This is an iterative process. Can we get back to them? Of course. Right. And I also admit in my comments here and on Facebook that a lot of good changes have been made.

The consultative conclusion was intended to simplify the interaction of people with the Poetics Commission without the need to submit a full statement. That's right.

And most importantly, it removes your concern about the time of proof. MGM.

When addressing the Kambudsman Council or the Poetics Commission. MGM. Okay. MGM. So, going back to the words of Lou, I am curious to hear from both of you, how you see the role of the Poetics Commission and how, in your opinion, we could improve it.

Кто-нибудь из вас? Да. Не думаю, что я могу высказать мнение о том, как улучшить работу, потому что не знаю, как она работает сейчас. Вы не могли бы говорить громче? Хорошо. Не думаю, что я могу высказать мнение о том, как улучшить работу, потому что я действительно не понимаю, как она устроена сейчас. Так что, знаете, единственное, что я знаю, это то, что прочитал до сих пор, и у меня нет мнения о том, как это улучшить. I believe that it is always important to keep the unambiguous, always look at things wider. Eee, this.

I think so, I can answer your question without experience of work.

Yes, this. Situations.

Which we discussed and which came or did not come to any conclusion. MGM. And you know, we reviewed the Code, because during the review of complaints we understood, my God, the Code does not really clarify the essence of the issue. For example, this is one of the steps towards improving the work of the Committee on Ethics and its legal document. Right. But I think that while you have no idea how it works in practice, I have a few thoughts about the formulas that can be improved. And about how the commission itself functions, I just can't say, because I don't know how it works today. But your question about the role of the Commission on Ethics and, I guess, I would add about the Code of Ethics as well. M. It would be, again, the protection of the city and the citizens from unscrupulous people in the city administration. M. So I think we need a balance here, which we talked about during our career. M. I think, on the one hand, we need to make sure that the Code is not written in such a way as to provoke listening and complaints of citizens against city officials. Right? They need confidence to fulfill their duties and roles from day to day, without being subjected to, you know, I will call it persecution. But, I think, this code of ethics should be favorable to the informants, who submit justified complaints, which the commission should consider. And, you know, I don't know where the line between ethical hearings and the definition of ethical violation and judicial investigation goes, but this is what, I'm sure, goes deep in the gutter, which we should not worry about tonight, but... So, Chris, let me just ask. Okay, just a question. If you were appointed, would you be able to apply the code in the form in which it is now or in the way it was adopted? M, taking into account your In some cases, there is a discrepancy with your personal opinion. I think this is a yes question. How would you cope with this? I have to do it, I have to do it every day in my role as a commercial creditor. Okay, I see a company that is sinking month after month, but they have not broken any contract conditions yet. You can't really do anything, yes. So I guess that

The real, real question is whether you are comfortable with the Code, so that you are ready to adhere to it as a member of the Commission for Ethics.

I mean, I would, I would, I mean, you know, I would also live by the Code in the form in which it is written. M. I don't know if all members of the commission are involved in listening and trying to determine whether there was a violation. I don't know how many violations are actually happening in this city every year. I hope there aren't that many. I hope there aren't that many.

M. I know, it's the same.

But I would, probably, raise the same questions that I raise today. Now, let's say, someone got a profit of $ 2,000. I don't know, we would have to, I think, there would be much more discussion about whether the violation took place than with the previous wording. This is my only argument on this.

But there is.

This, this, and, as everyone noted, these are things that can be updated and supplemented, just as amendments to the Constitution are included.

Or discuss when, when it is applicable. When I was the chairman, there was one person at the reservoirs who constantly wanted to file a complaint against the violation of ethics against the port captain or the one who introduced the ban on creating waves. This should be a complaint against the violation of ethics. You know, I'm tired of saying, read the codex, and in the end I just said, no, this is not a question of ethics. There are a small number of people who perceive the Poetics Commission as a group of mercenaries. Mercenaries.

Maybe, maybe, this, maybe, this, in general, this is a bad perception that people have.

In the view of some people, this is a punitive organ, and one of the things Even in cases of justified complaints, it is sometimes difficult to separate this punitive aspect from clear ethical facts. But by the time the case comes to us, there is often already hostility. You know, people are angry with each other, and I would really like them to contact a consultative conclusion more often, maybe it would help to reduce the degree. So that we don't have fights here without rules.

This is a step that can be made before filing a complaint. Yes.

Yes, there is such an opportunity.

I wonder if many people know about it at all. I wonder if many people know about it at all.

Well, we had one who came and he was too.

Yes, three last year.

If they are not going to read the ethics code, no, they will never find out about it.

Yes, that's right. Often.

Yes, how many pages are there? Three, four pages. This is not such a terrible task to read it. Yes. Understanding it is another matter, but...

Yes. I think most people do not understand or do not appreciate. I mean that the main focus of the Code of Ethics is a conflict of interests due to personal or financial interest. It is not intended to investigate crimes or alleged crimes or criminal violations. Or even other civil violations. We really have a rather narrow direction. If you are appointed, you will see, eh, that there are a lot of messages that the Code does not spread at all. Yes, because it is outside the scope of the competence of our Commission.

It just throws them away. Yes.

We will not hold a meeting on something that has nothing to do with ethics. This is not our job.

Everything is fine, yes. In general, are there any other questions?

Chris, you need to fill out a declaration of conflict of interests. What to do? Fill out a form on conflict of interests every year.

I have to fill it out. MM, on my current position, no.

Maybe that's why you have problems with this hundred bucks. What do you mean? Well, we have to, I have to fill it out every year. This is a large university of the Plyusha League. And what everyone remembered is 100 bucks. These 100 dollars.

Yes. I saw it in all the other codes that we had to study from other municipalities. There is always this figure. Perhaps you would have known if you yourself had to fill in such a form.

I'm trying to remember if there are these 100 bucks there. You see, I don't think that in the form that I sign as a Realtor, there is such a definition. It just says significant profit, this is material profit.

It should be. I think it's already mentioned in the code. In 6, 7 or 8 different municipalities.

Give it to me.

The amount of 100 dollars is most often used to determine a gift.

Yes, it is related to taxes, related to taxes. For example, pizza. It will also go there.

Yes, then it will be 100 bucks.

Yes, but this is if 10 people each paid 7 dollars. That's how it was with us. You can ask why you announced your candidacy on Facebook.

Just so people know what will be in the next meeting and what, what. Did you expect them to come? No. No, this is not a pre-election campaign.

Yes. I was just curious.

I rather think I knew about the meeting because Lou sent me a letter. MM. Ugu. You know, I've lived in this city for six years, and until recently I didn't really attend city meetings. To be honest, I was the first.

Why did you come? Because of the school council or because of the ethics?

Because of the review of the Ethics Code.

School council and ethics, I studied the entire agenda and thought, oh, damn it, at least we need to understand what is being discussed there, right? То есть школьный совет тоже вас интересовал? Да. Понятно. Да, да. Да, безусловно. Я тоже недавно был на семинаре по зонированию.

О, ты тоже там был?

А через пару недель будет еще один.

Понятно, хорошо.

В общем, да, стараюсь быть более активным гражданином. Это хорошо. Да.

Это здорово.

Но суть в том, чтобы люди знали о собраниях и вакансиях. I am trying to participate and I advise you all to check the list of vacancies, because there are quite a lot of them. As Martha Schumaker noticed, when we were at the zoning seminar, it seems to be here. MGM, was it discussed at the meeting before you came? Yes.

Of course, Facebook sees more people than on the city site, so I think.

Yes, exactly, yes, no one goes to the city calendar to find out what meetings are scheduled, right? But no matter how much I don't like social media, I really like it that thanks to them I better understand what is happening in the city. That's why I still like to live in a small town. You know, everyone here has much more opportunities to be heard if you just start participating. Unlike the town of Dan in California, where 100,000 people live, you understand, this is a completely different matter. Completely different scale. Chris, you answer in a row, we have a free conversation here. This year you answered many of the questions that I had, but one, I'm sorry if you've already talked about it, but how do you provide a ruthless approach to accusations? And you won't draw conclusions until you listen to all the arguments, evidence and problems. I mean, what's yours? I think the process of thinking or approach to this. Yes, how would you do it? I think that's exactly how to ask questions to make sure you know all the facts and circumstances. And then compare them with the code of conduct. You know, I think that's exactly what needs to be done. With any potential violation, this is not much different from violating the terms of the loan agreement. Although everything is a little more unambiguous there, because you are mainly dealing with financial obligations. So here, I believe, there are much more nuances. Right. But yes. It should happen. Okay, thank you. I mean the openness of thinking and a lot of questions. Right?

It would be. And I know that Luna is having an interview with you, but I thought this question was very good. You don't mind answering it too? M, well, please, repeat it. Because I'm sorry.

Well, I won't repeat it to you. I'll repeat it to everyone in touch. I think I got it.

The main question was how to keep the innocence when we are accused. M, well, a conclusion before we hear the evidence. Yes, this is extremely important. This has always been extremely important in all HR roles. And, believe it or not, even in real estate. Even in real estate. I remember one of our office managers, in particular, he called and complained. You believe in blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. And she always answered, this story has another side. Always. Always there is, always there is another, always there is another side. Therefore, you need to ask clarifying, you need to ask questions. You must ask clarifying questions. You need to listen to what they say. And then, when you, for example, if you need to assess this with regard to something, M, perhaps, in fact, for example, the Code of Ethics. There will probably be a discussion, because, as far as possible, I have not studied it. But I believe that the situation is as it is, and this is what it is. There are no regulations here. We do not live according to the Napoleon Code. that judgment will always be carried out. Does the behavior described here correspond to what is written here, both in spirit and in writing? So, you know, there is something to think about here. And not only this, but also the behavior that was described, which was described, but is it true? This, this, this is another aspect. Because if there is a complaint, then where is the other side of the complaint? But I, as I understand it, it's like a complaint first, and then some kind of information is enough to say that you really need to study it. Then, I guess, you need to go to the other side of the attempt to get to the facts presented, and then apply the Code. And this is not, you know, it will be evaluative, I think, probably, judging by how it is written. Another point is that all this should be confidential. Of course. It will remain forever, because this is a stain on your reputation, and the case should come to the stage of analysis, before becoming a property of the public. You know, there should be enough evidence to publicize it. Because otherwise, you know, it's, to be honest, I don't understand. At what point does it become, at what point does the case become public? Aren't complaints, in fact, justified? I had a client's wife who filed a complaint against me in the attorney's office for ethics. She was rejected. At that time, the recording of the complaint was left in the department forever. In the end, the rules were reviewed and five years later it was canceled. But I was threatened to live with this for the rest of my career. And she wasn't even my client.

I, it seemed to me, I read in the Code of Ethics that any complaints should remain confidential until now.

Until, until it is not. The final decision has been made. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And so that no one makes hasty conclusions, since I write to Facebook from time to time, I just wanted to emphasize that there is a huge difference between discussing public changes in the Code of Ethics and confidential cases. I would, of course, never do that.

I know, but at what point does it become public? I would not write anything about the commission on ethics on Facebook or other social networks.

Not about the commission's activities, but, I think, Chris makes a distinction.

Yes, my argument is exactly in this distinction, but I would not do it. Because for me it is an attempt at confidentiality.

Yes, everything can go wrong. Your, your wording can be superfluous. And this is just a bad idea. I mean, confidentiality and honesty are two pillars on which this commission is based. But Vivian's question was actually about what exactly moment it becomes. Public? It turns out that everything we do, for example, a survey of people who have filed a complaint or discussing a complaint against someone, is not an open process, it is not public. Right. And how then does this agree with the freedom of information, protocols and other important things? Because this is ethics. We have other rules. We have the right to do this. And that is why the Poetics Commission itself chooses its members. We do not want the Council of Administrators to appoint our members, because this creates a potential conflict of interests, and you definitely do not want the members of the Poetics Commission to choose by voting, so that they lead the pre-election campaign and give people promises. You know, this is a good situation, if 99.9% of people have no idea what is happening in the ethics department. This is exactly what we are striving for.

MGM. Like the Supreme Court.

MGM. Oh, I beg you. Please. Just don't start. I thought it was more like a revision commission in a public corporation, where the revision commission, so to speak, must stand over the board of directors. And only, well, kind of, yes, kind of, presumably, yes, yes.

Are there any other questions?

Did you carry out an investigation while in the personnel department, or was it not part of your duties? There were several complaints of sexual harassment. Yes, they had to be considered. And also, ee, cases of racial prejudice. MGM, okay.

It was a long time ago. Yes.

I want to ask a question. I had to conduct training on these topics for leadership. Yes. as well as on confidentiality issues. MGM. In my current profession, confidentiality, I know, people do not believe in this in relation to real estate agents, but we have a very strict ethical code, including five points, one of which is confidentiality to death itself. And this applies not only to transactions, because we learn a lot of information about people, their personal and financial life, and even when facts become public, this, of course, is related to the motivation for buying and selling and how it affects the price. But besides that, it's a secret to the grave. It doesn't matter that the house was sold 15 years ago because of a serious divorce, because we will learn a lot of details. So what? Okay.

If there are no more questions, let's move on to the next item, the discussion of commissions and consideration of applications, in fact, this is voting on the candidates we have presented. So, the conversation was quite free and productive, I don't know if there is a desire to move on to the discussion or we will vote right away. Here's the question. I ask this question. I don't care.

How better? I'm sorry. What? I don't care. How better? I'm in. Okay.

Well, what are they?

I also don't see a fundamental difference.

Okay, then why don't we just get down to business right away?

Okay.

Put them to vote. M, as I said at the very beginning, I'm sorry.

No. I thought the vote would be at the next meeting. No, okay.

No, we'll hold it tonight. Yes, yes.

M. We need to leave.

I think we need to leave. I think we're still discussing. Maybe. No, the vote should always be held at an open meeting. Okay. Discussions can be closed, but we decided not to, based on your preferences. Okay. M. We have two candidates and two vacancy categories. Two vacancies, one for the main member and the second for the reserve. So, M, I think we could approach it this way if everyone is okay with it. The proposal is this. We vote for the main place. And then, by default, we will vote on the candidates. All members. Yes. What? Yes, Jin, speak. We are going to vote for one of the candidates for the main place. Good. And then we will vote for one of the candidates, for the remaining candidate for the reserve. Good. So, you are a parliamentary expert, let me, we just want.

I would.

Divide the vote or survey.

I would ask the members of the council for one place, and then for another. By voting.

Okay, I think we're talking about the same thing.

Yes, we don't always have to raise our hands together.

No, no, no, okay.

Ask them.

Okay, okay, then you'll start first. First, I'll ask you.

Okay, I, I. Just, despite the words of the city lawyer, I believe that we need a Republican in the council. She says that the party-less are as good as the Republicans, but I ... I'm not sure it's for the party-less. I'm party-less, yes.

I, Vivian's biography convinced me that she is a good fit for the role of a full-fledged member of the Poetics Commission. So my vote is for Vivian.

Good. Vote.

I agree. Vivian. I would vote for Chris.

I'm sorry.

I would vote for Chris.

Good. Good. So I can't vote. M. Good. So you will.

Good. So, one, two, three. So I will abstain from this vote.

Yes. M. You announced the results of the vote. So, vote 2 to 1 in favor of Vivian. Good.

M. I'm sorry, it looks like I made a mistake. Vivian. Vivian.

Chris.

M. M. Chris. M. M. Good. I'm sorry. I'm just thinking.

I, I, in general, we have two to one. Two for Viv, one for, three, this is a quorum. This, does this mean that Vivian gets the appointment?

We have a quorum for voting. Yes.

This is two to one.

The question is, do you need a quorum to unite around one candidate?

To confirm the appointment. Is it so? No, I, I, I guess, I ask this question. I don't think it's so.

Then don't create a problem. I don't think so.

No, okay. You want to say that someone needs to have at least three votes for, to get a place.

That's what he's asking about. Yes. I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I don't. Both lawyers don't think so. I think, while there is a quorum for voting, it is also legal to abstain. Right. The result of the quorum vote is important. Okay, everything is fine.

Or we'll redo it. Okay. So, Vivian gets the assignment to the main place. Okay. Now, M, the assignment to the alternative place.

Хорошо, я, я впечатлен Крисом. Думаю, он лучше подходит для комиссии по планированию. Планирование? Да. Да, потому что?

Я не изучал вопрос планирования.

Вы, кажется, видите более широкие проблемы, и комиссии по планированию нужен кто-то вроде вас.

Я ничего не знаю о вакансии в планировании.

I have no idea, but I could recommend you to the planning commission. That is, you would be useful to them.

I, what is it, good. So, I think, but he submitted a request for poetics.

And we need to vote for poetics. I, I, I think, Chris is good for the poetics commission, so I will vote not for Chris and send him to planning. That's where he would be a real asset.

Good. Go on.

I vote for Chris. Me too.

Me too. So, put in the protocol three votes for.

Three, two, one. One vote.

Against. Good. Okay. So, Chris is appointed to the Ethics Commission as an alternative member. Yes. And, if I'm not mistaken, Kris, alternative members can participate in any meeting of the Commission. And, as far as I remember, you can vote instead of the absent member.

If you are appointed instead of the absent member.

Most of the two-thirds, or in this case, these are three members of the commission. That is, at the meeting, if someone is absent, other members of the commission can appoint you to vote on behalf of this participant. And they never appear? Another deputy?

I think, I don't want you to consider this a less significant position.

And so he can, he can, the deputy can replace at any, at any particular moment.

It's not only you, right? Participate in the discussion and substitute. For voting, for voting with the deputy member. Not in the discussion.

Yes, right. And? This applies to both regular and special meetings.

And those, and others in one day? Yes. And our other deputy rarely comes with us. I don't think I've ever met him. Well said, this is good.

I will definitely appear.

Well, he is an international lawyer.

Really? Welcome, welcome, thank you. We appreciate your interest and your time.

And here is the best news. Next meeting.

Okay, I put it on the list, and the specific reason why I did it is that the next meeting is scheduled for October 13, it seems. I will not be in the country.

Okay, so what?

The whole commission is leaving the country. That's why I would like to ask you to go to the meeting. Can you postpone the meeting, maybe a week earlier? It would be or could be, well, I'll only be back on the 24th. A week before that, I'll only be back from the trip. Or you can hold a meeting without me, that is, me.

What will happen at that meeting? Who knows? Well, there is still no agenda for whether we have it.

I don't think I have two things that I want to include in the agenda, but given that we have a special meeting. I don't know if I can mention them, but we cannot take any measures or discuss them on them. Because it would be. So you want to include them in the October meeting? Yes. Okay.

Yes.

First of all, I would like to turn to the city not to turn, and I would like to inform the commission, since we did not have the opportunity to do this about the city council. And to include in the protocol some questions that were asked. including those that Chris gave us before the city meeting. Because I think that some important points were raised there. And again, this is an iterative process. Therefore, at that meeting, I want to make a note with an explanation for you, Chris. I called to vote on this issue, because I was not there to discuss changes in the proposed project. Yes, I did not think that the changes would be approved. I came to present the proposal, and therefore I initiated it or asked if it was possible to put it to vote. So I did not try to ignore anyone. Yes, no, I did not perceive it that way. Okay. Hey, let's get back to business.

The essence of the issue. In October.

I would like to raise a question about the assembly of residents, well, not about the assembly. I would like to bring to our discussion all the public comments that were made, including Christopher's comments. Okay. And second, after the announcement of this meeting, there was a request for a consultative conclusion, which I would like to present to the Commission.

Oh, so we still need to meet.

Yes, we need to meet. Yes, I told this person that the question will be considered only at the October meeting.

And they don't mind?

Yes, there was no answer. I guess they don't mind. But I think it's important.

Okay, good. Perhaps it would be best to send a request for availability for the new date of the next meeting. Right?

Yes.

Can we? We can still call it the next one.

Oh yes, it will be the next meeting, yes.

But, yes, no, because people bring it into their calendars.

We are transferring the next meeting.

We could, if we can't get to the top this week, because the consultative conclusion will be considered at the closed meeting. So there will be no audience, except for Connecticut Examiner.

Well, even this will not happen. I'm sorry. And we will have a video conference.

Well, what would you like? I would like to hold a personal meeting, if it is convenient for everyone.

Yes, it suits me. Everything is fine.

Okay, this is how it works for you. Yes. Yes, okay.

The problem is that ...

It will be good for you.

We probably need Katie to start. Yes, the video and everything else. This will be an obvious problem. Are you satisfied with 17 hours, at least, as the time of the beginning of the meeting? 17 hours, 17 hours 30 minutes or we will appoint on October 6? Okay. What, what time is convenient for Nikol? 17 hours 30 minutes.

17 hours 30 minutes.

Let's do that. Meeting for us.

Is October 6 suitable? Who knows. This is the day of the meeting.

Хорошо, так и есть.

Думаю, да, вы входите в совет, разве не?

Консультативное заключение. Шестые мне подходят. По сути, это рекомендательное заключение.

Шестого октября, хорошее время для созвона, вам подходит?

Знаю, я, я не знаю.

Хорошо, давайте проверим, подходит ли это, и подтвердим.

Нам также нужны, мне нужны. Есть ли у вас адресы электронной почты в заявке? Эээ, да.

I have, yes, they are in the application, yes, and ULU is mine, yes, okay, okay, yes, thank you.

Because I will send a list, so I will add. Okay. Okay. I will send the availability request again on October 6. We are in full form for the first time for eternity. Pretty good. Thank you.

We leave here with a souvenir.

Did you get it? No, I got it.

No, oh, I only had, I took only two for these guys.

I have enough paper.

But Katie can get it for you. Yes. I'm fine, until the new code comes out.

Okay. I don't need the old, outdated code.

Code, oh, I guess, we should see what to do.

Yes, this is the old code.

Yes, the old code.

This is the only correction.

Okay, that's all. So, is there a proposal to complete the meeting?

I think we can just finish. I need an offer. I don't think so. I already put it in the protocol for 6 hours and 30 minutes. Can I, as a dubber, submit an offer for completion?

No, no, but you raised a good question. Eh, I will send Vika to the city secretary tomorrow or tonight, the results of our meeting and your appointment. And now I can talk to you, Viv. Oh, okay. Eh, but you both still need to make an oath. Oh, right.

Before your appointment becomes official.

With a cow behind your shoulder, a picture with a cow behind your shoulder.

So this is ... True, I mean, honestly, right in a certain place. In general, I will send her a short letter so that she knows that you were appointed at today's meeting.

And all you need to do is come to the office, tell her why you came, and she will give you ... It will take. Confidentiality statement too. Yes, I understand. And just for your reference. Okay.

This, this.

Accepted. Accepted. Conclusion.

Okay. When we go to do it, I was like.