Board of Finance - Regular Meeting

Thank you, Michelle. Just to make sure that my punctuality is noted all the meaning of 7 p.m. Yes, I have that and everybody's here so we don't have any folks passing them out. Well, the meeting's been called to order. And while Anita's passing stuff out, why don't we approve the minutes of March 17th? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of March 17th.

Second. Does anybody, if they were circulated by email, does anybody need to be a hard copy? There are our documents here if anybody needs them and agendas. Hearing no yeses. Any motion been made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. Any oppose say nay. Any abstensions? You're looking here.

Okay. Okay. Well, let's jump into the budget which I think is just conservative.

And as you will remember at our last meeting, Anita uh raised and we discussed uh several areas where the draft budget as of that point in time could be reduced and Martha was going to bring those suggested reductions to the board of selection. and you can tell us, but my guess is that most, if not all of them were approved by the board of selectmen and that they're incorporated in the budget that Anita just distributed. Is that right? Correct. The um all that was approved is in the front. Say what? They have they have

I know this is what we approved the draft copy of the two cuts that we made. So the first column Well, yeah. Yeah. The first top part. Okay. Yep. And then um and Anita has then since swan and changed everything in this copy that you have. So this is the most updated copy, right? So that this copy in incorporates incorporated in Yes. Okay. Well, let's take a minute and let cover

and I can give you a little bit of um information on Axon body cameras and uh if you need information on that can talk to you about open space that we did talk to Greg Ftoma. Um I do have Ed here because he's um concerned about the bus barn paving. So, um it's not bus barn. What is it? Bus parking lot, whatever it is. Anyway, um so Ed is here. So, because I know we had questions and concerns, so Ed decided to come out for the night. Thanks, Ed.

And um I'm happy to answer any questions. And Anita worked really hard on this. Yeah. So everybody take your time to look through it, but it looks to me like the bottom line is a an increase in revenue of $100,000. And I'm not sure I understand that. That must be from the ARPA fund. That's a interest from the ARPA fund. So interest. Okay. We do not have to that's ours because we put it in the bank. So that's the interest that's been earned on the ARPA funds. Okay. That can come directly over, right? And that's 100,000 that was not contemplated in the last draft of the budget, right?

And then there's a decrease in expenses of 431,000, which means a net improvement of the budget of 531,000. Sounds good to me. Um, while people contemplate that, Martha, just u a quick question because I took a look at last year's road schedule and I don't think we got a detailed road schedule like we did last year in our book. Do you remember if it's in the book or not? You have the book with you? I do. So, I would think it would be in there if Anita put it in. Did you put in a road schedule? hand I handed it out.

You may she may have handed it out as a supplemental, David, when maybe when you weren't here at one point in time. But I will tell you this. I will tell you this that we have we know that there's one um road that is um which is Rogers Lake Trail that should have been done for 26 and we are to or next year starting in you know the 26 27 fiscal year. Um, I am going to write a grant for Town Woods Road and ride through the trips grant program. Uh, which has to be in June 6. And because they're both very well traveled, I'm going to cross my fingers, but it's up to $2 million that you flexed for road improvements.

Yeah. And so let's let's put the source aside and and look at the uses because um last year we upped the the um from 800,000 to a million

and that was based upon what I'm looking at right now after we figured out like two years from now it's going to be 34 grand. So let's actually look at this a little bit more closely. When I look now, just using last year's number, um we're we're closer to uh over $7 million for the next five years. So, I would just observe that. not going to do anything tonight, I don't think, without really digging into all sorts of things. But that's a big delta and especially if we've got nearterm projects that are going to exceed that million bucks because what we've allowed for in the budget is, hey, if it costs a million bucks, we're all set. If it goes above that million bucks,

then we got to do something about it. go to, you know, town meeting or if it's, you know, 19,9.99, we can do something here. But th that's going to move the needle very materially. And especially because Rogers Lake has needed it forever. 1980 or whatever it was originally done and then we chip sealed it like every year for 15 years, which uh was was no good. But that was the purpose of Ed's behind you with the history of what he's done to that. That that's okay. Yeah. Um but that was the purpose of the cash flow projection that I did last year.

And so we're again back to doing things a little bit in a vacuum. And I I would hope that we would use our time to use that template to get to some good longer term planning because now we've got other things. I had the I had the 5 to 10 year plan for you at one point in time. It was handed out on papers like this

for for the cap not not not not for just cappu I'm talking about overall. So, uh, with three and a half% increase, you know, for expenses or whatever it is, but we've also got because a lot of it is capital, but we've got Grassy Hill, those um, those bids are, I don't know, five years old now. Bids for the Grassy Hill Bridge, the 1.4 million that we're looking at. Well, we the grant has gone up because we've asked for an extension until next year. I'm just just saying a lot of the numbers that we're working with, we know are probably stale. We will have the num the updated numbers for you in December of 26.

Yeah. As far as the roads were um 2627 the projected roads are going to come to 94 estimate 943 927 depending on what happens to I think when we talked about roads during capital there was discussion that the plan for which roads were being done was changing and we actually needed an updated yes projection of the roads because the fiveyear plan had changed based on what you were seeing this season. So, I don't know that we ever got the updated list of the roads that are planned and I know last year we went out to bid and saved a lot of money on paving.

We've done that again this year. Yeah. So, the the numbers and the estimate, I don't know how good those are. We just got our bids in for this year. We're like what? 670 Ed for all the roads this year. 670. not including including um pull up a check Rogers Lake Rogers Lake because it had been missed on his list. So well it was pushed off last year.

Well, it was and they promised that it would be done and I've talked to Dave Ivers and um Brian um Pendleton and we've had conversations and they know what our plan is to take care of it for them and we will do our best to Uh, I interrupted a motion. I apologize, BJ. No, you didn't approve the minutes. So, we did it. You seconded talking so much. I know. I seconded. We're all set. So, David, I will work to with Ed again to update there. What happened was there were two road list and they got

there was one that had been updated last year and that was the one we were supposed to work off of and did and Ed got a copy of the old one and was working off that and that's how we went about to do our bidding for this particular year. Not to say that those roads Browns Lane is worse than Rogers Lake Trail right now. Yes. So I'm so it is and Flat Rock. So, those will be done along with um Hatchets Hill and Hawthorne and what's that other little street that's out there? Bond Whitman. Yeah, those would be the ones that would be done this particular year. Brier. Brier Hill.

The nice thing about that too is that that it won't interfere with any of the shoreline area and they can be done at any time. We don't have to wait till season is over.

So, I'd like to go ahead confirm what she said. Um, that's good that we have a plan, but if anybody driven around this past winter really took five more five more years and then one of them Browns Lane and all that they take they've taken a real big hit this year and it's, you know, trying to keep them together and now Rogers Lake was one of them. obviously was the last time I was paid Harris was super understood. So I think you know to Dave's point where we'll end up circling around to our undesated fund at some point here. And I think you know our infrastructure like our roads are going to cost more than a million dollars a year as you've pointed out Dave and Ed sitting there nodding never mind what the price of oil what happens to the price of oil over the next five years um because that'll have a huge impact on it and great for getting the bids in early. I guess

right now you can figure if you got a price last year you can add 20% to it this year right right now and it's still oil is still blowing off you but in in part because of the recent spike in oil right hopefully that will five weeks ago yeah if you got your home heating bills already well Daniel shows up every hour on the hour happy to unload Yeah, it's going to cost a lot more just because of that. Yeah, in terms of projecting three to five years, we really have to take a hard look. But could come down again though in a year or two.

But the immed will be down by a year or two. Well, I think to the what we need to do tonight is probably look at what's going into road paving this year, right? anticipating that it's going to be expensive and we don't want to go to town meeting if we can anticipate that. Well, you've already got the bids in, right? Are they locked in? Don't have anything to do with any change in price or is there a no little footnote at the bottom that says we're going to choose our person by the end of the week.

We're just Ed and I are doing reference checks tomorrow. Now we gota remember what the world is doing that's over a billion dollars easy. Well, four mile you've talked about.

That road I anticipate Rogers Lake Trail and there's two roads off that be close to a million more. But you thought the roads this year were going to be a million and there lot of big roads coming in. That's why I've been trying to pull them off and see if we get some money in the bank because I have small roads that lock in with them where people live that like we've got trees should be done woods. So Martha, the $2 million that you're um the grant that you're applying for, if you get it for Rogers Lake, um if there's any overage, could that be used for some other road that

I'm going to put in for T Ed and Anita and I went through the big roads that need to be done. Okay. And we're going to put in for all of them. Awesome. And then we'll see what we get. So we're also going to do area and and you got loads around trying to get them all done and locking them together. So, so the D piece is done and you're not going back over Brandon P and grinding. That's what will happen at Browns Lane. Now, all that whole area will be finished whole clip and it'll be done for 20 years. And Ed will make sure that the bidding next time in 20 years goes out early, too. Yeah. Right.

So, my question is that 2 million that's the grant you're applying for. So, what what of the cost that's going to be spent next year? How much what percentage is that? 2 million. That's that's the number I'm trying to figure in my head. Is is we spending5 million two? I'm I'm just I'm just going to say that Anita and Ed and I followed the your lead. Last year, you said we want to put a million dollars in a year and that's what we did projecting out. We did a million dollars a year. That's what you asked us to do last year. We went out to bid for the roads this year and we said we'd have answers for you before the final budget. We have our answers for you. So now we are just Well, we didn't ask you. We

No, you told us you told us last year to make sure that we were budgeting at least a million dollars a year. Well, your road schedule, right? Right. That's what it was calling for. I know that. But you you were upset because last year we only did 800 and then you said you should be but we pution in there to save we build the fun up and we need more than that one million only that one million will come from the budget but the fund will have the extra money in it so that we're not the taxpayers are not paying attention.

Right. That's the whole reason we're doing one million a year was if the roads only cost us 500 this year, that other 500 is going to sit there in that fund designated for roads. So next year when it's 1.5 I think Tom's question was of the amount that you think you're going to spend this year. Do we have enough in the fund? Do we have enough in the fund to fund that? And then this extra $2 million project, does that have to get done if you don't get the grant? No. No. It'll go it'll be in next year's budget and we'll have a better idea of what it'll actually cost because But it'll be a $2 million project on top of whatever else. It may not be a million.

Well, I know, but I'm just saying like we're looking for that much money. So conceivably, you're going to have whatever the plan is for next year, plus potentially a $2 million neighborhood ballpark project that at some point in time, we can't just keep saying, "Oh, we didn't get the grant, so we're just not going to do it this year." Like, at some point in time, like when is the drop dead date on we must have several million dollars to cover Whipperwill, Townwoods, and Four Mile River Road?

Well, next year. from she was here coming then I would say probably the year after that two years probably year after building so let's let's assume we don't get the grant uh the the current the fiscal year that's going to begin July 1st what's our uh how many dollars are in the budget and how many dollars do we think we're going to need for this next fiscal year. Currently, we have a million dollars in the budget. The bid came in at six changed

bid and we have currently 860 sitting in the road. But we have 800 in the fund. We're going to put another million in and maybe we'll only spend 6 or 700. So that's fine. But then have have you three run the next five years forward and estimated No grant, no magic money. Um, what would the the annual road maintenance cost be for the next five years?

We have to sit down and finish that by the fact that we're waiting on a bid. So, we can get a dollar amount to start with because the dollar amount we were projecting on is based off older numbers. So, we want to base it on current numbers and then increase that by a percentage every so many every year. So but to to David's point, so the answer to that question is relevant to the the undesated funds and how much money do we need to save for future expenses year but we have to work on the up to five years.

But we need to we need to think about it tonight because we have to make the decision tonight. and putting aside the $2 million extraordinary expense. Um, otherwise is a million dollars a year insufficient. You think it's up 20%. So a million2 a year. I mean any ballpark of what you think the the average over a period of five years annual maintenance expense will be looking forward. My opinion 20% going up a year is probably we should be increasing that every year because prices go down. They said after I don't see they can tell you all they want. I will not see even if this mess is straight up not see also according to the current one of the one of the strategies we have this year the estimate was 943. It came in at 6 change was the bid. Next year he has out 560

561,000. So the bid might come in maybe at 450. So there's still going to be that surplus of 500 except we have to add grass. We have to add the project. The year after is one million is the year after and these are with the old projected numbers with a 20% increase. So they have an increase built in. So these numbers are and then 2930 projected with old rates at almost 2.5 million. And that one has I don't have that schedule. Do you have that she's talking about?

She's looking at it on her computer. She did send you out. She did give me one. I don't I I look through everything and I don't have it. I don't have it in my binder. I don't have it here. So we have one conversation. This is what we This is what we decided on. you know, if you put a little rain, they put money in for that, right? We ran a little big project, the money was there and it's going to work. It's working right now because we went off the bid as far and we're starting to see a savings in in what we're doing, but the market's just killing us.

Well, I think that's okay. I think that we just need to know for tonight if we're going to pull money from the undesated fund. If we actually need that money in there for say paving next year, that would be a reason to leave it there so that next year we could say or if we need to put you know 1.2 million into the road fund that right now. right now. That would probably be what I would suggest if you're especially if we're going to have to do leave that money in there because we got enough if we get the 1.2 there will be over $500 fund not a slush fund.

Well, if we're at 800 and we're adding a million currently, that's 1.8, right? And we've got 670, so 700 grand. That does not include Town Woods and Rogers Lake Trout. Right. Correct. Correct. There's a one. Those are It's Flat It's Flat Rock, uh, Browns Lane, and Brier Hill and the two Whitman, Hawthorne, Brier Hill. That's it. Right.

So, we would be down to one one. we'd add another million and we'd have at least these two that we would be doing plus according to last year's budget another million on top of that. So we could either add some tonight or wait until next year and add more. Right. Well, let let's let's put this on hold and come back to it when we get to decision time. But it sounds like we're covered for the next year. It's taking the can down the road. Well, yeah, but it's the can of the undesated fun. So I think how much do we want to Dave? Yeah.

According to that schedule is year five, the really big one because I remember last year we calculated out, okay, the next five years are $5 million of paving and we said, well then we need a million dollars a year going in there. No, it was two big years. Okay. So you had 750 and then a million, a million, then 24, then 21. It was about seven million. Yeah. And I don't know if this had an escalator in it or not. That's Anita said it had a 20% per year in it. Yes. So I mean that would say we need to be putting 1.4 million a year in there.

Yeah. Well, we we have in front of us distributed tonight of projections for the next at least five years, more than five years. So, let's let's get to that in a minute. I just want to go over this stuff and make sure I and you understand the numbers starting with the summary sheet

that you need to hand out that mark drafts on the tops. Um just just to tell you what what I'm seeing it's that the uh dropping it to the bottom the change from uh this year of 138 to next year of 146 represents a total increase of $748,000 more or less of which 187,000 is in capital and 561,000 is in operating and that total budget increase is 5.39% comprised 1.35% is some capital and 4.0 of general government. That's the snapshot

and the general government also includes um the um the water sluff and they we're going to do a half a year on the police officer. Um they want to do as in January. So we cut out for a half a year because the time you hire one will be till January. So we only put a salary in for a half year. It includes a new public works and it includes the tax um assistant becoming full-time and that's what gave us the 4. Hey, where did uh region 18 come out in terms of population?

82.7% Russ. Was that the same as last year? It went from 81.9% to 82.7%. So almost 1% 1% 8% up number of overall students in front of me. I can pull it up. 1445. No, it was closer to 1235. The increase was um 714. The number of students, do you have the student number? So, the bottom line, he didn't have it in the sheets. I had asked him separately and I think I wrote it anywhere. I can't remember.

No, it's not in there. Was he I asked him separately because it just came out the other day. April 1st numbers came out. So this reflects April 1st numbers, right? It's okay. Yeah. Thanks.

Thank you. I mean, he still has he has his under designated fund is 3.5 and um his and the projections of what were going to be completed had not been completed. So he's got a little bit in reserves, but I mean if he needs it for special ed, which is what he's saying, when have we ever not been reimbured 100% by the state the I think for special ed, students. Yeah, the 900 line, 40. What's that?

1,258. 218 is line 140 old line. So the state shorted us this year. That's the first time in 18 years that I've been on the board of finance that we haven't. Well, we had some unexpected amounts of money. We went over 900,000 for special ed in budget. Will that ultimately be reimbursed this year because I'm not on board anymore. So I haven't been in on those. the number that I had that I gave you in the revenue total is the number from the state that they're giving us and I think for this fiscal year though because if you get a kid that comes in the final fund

you're probably getting screwed up in the next fiscal year probably the following two years from now

okay so if you go to the before we go to the projective the budget itself Um this first sheet doesn't show the schools. The last page of the of the whole budget does. And if you look at it, the um school district is going from a 315 budget for the current year to a 335 for next year, which is a 6.57% increase. And when you combine that with the municipal budget, we go from 45.394 to 48.213 for a 6.21% increase. So the way this budget sits today going to the taxpayers, we're talking about a 6.21% increase in the budget. Now these are expenses, right? This just we're not talking yet about revenues and so the tax increase is going to be more or less than 6.21%. We'll get to that then. I'd like to and would you walk us through the projections because the projections include not only the roads but other stuff and they'd like to look at

in which projection the fiveyear projection going forward. Capital. You're talking capital. Say what? Capitals. You're talking about Well, this is general capital general fund budget and capital project funds. Yeah, but mine is longer than yours. I don't know why you have the short one. Oh, I have I just grabbed the wrong one and I'm trying to find the totals.

The back. It's just capital exchange. page total at the bottom of these. Yeah, that's on five years. She can do it on her BJ was asking for five years. It's not on there. It's not there. BJ, it's not there. She's going to read it out. That's capital. That's just capital.

It's not. Well, but we don't have a cut off. I'm sorry. When I did my print area screen, that bottom number cut I'm sorry for 2728. Um, the total of all the column was 2,1 19900 um 2829. Yep. The whole government don't just total. Okay. for the five the next year after that 1,854. Yeah.

The year after that 1,780. Yeah. 1,780,000. And the next year is 3031. 3031. Right now it's sitting at 35900. 100. Yes. Oh, that's right. Yeah. because something was added. You mean 359,000? Okay. So, on order of magnitude, it's consistent until 3031. And what fell off for that year? Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Road improvement doesn't have

Yeah, it doesn't fire engine. Sorry, I gota add that because that was just the total transfers and the general government. I am sorry reading about wrong two. You want to start again? Start all over again. Okay. Um 2728 the total for both

transfers capital all that is 2 million714773 2829 273751 2930 1,989464 303 31474905.

Okay. So, I'll I'll re ask the question, why did that year drop down so much? Fire apparatus. Is that right? Yeah. The road improvements didn't carry out to that year. We only decided up to the five years. So, we did roads is not included because we only said a million for five years and then they were going to rebal. So, that's not included. So within this time frame, how many of the dollars that you just stated are for roads? A million per year. Per year. Not inflated, just a million even per year. That's what you decided last year.

Okay. Okay. And if you look back uh Anita started with 2728 and gave us 2.7 million. You look back at the uh 2627 um the number is 2.6 million and 2526. Um our current year is 2.4 million. So in terms of order of magnitude I'm just saying the numbers are within a few hundred,000 you know maybe 15% or so. And it may be that the variable that we're identifying tonight that's omitted is roads. In other words, if we were going to tweak these numbers looking forward, the principal thing that's come to our attention is an under allowance for roads. And I think we have to consider our town buildings. They're continuing to age. And there's going to be stuff we need to do.

Yes. And there's a five-year project plan for each building in your books that Eric provided. But is five years enough? Well, you know, I think that's I mean that's great, but I think we're we're we're now looking at the roads at just five years. We know we have to look beyond that. Uh because some of the roads that were done 10 or 15 years ago are going to be done again. uh in the next 10 years. Um

okay. And so what we have to do tonight is uh vote on and approve the budget and then uh at least preliminarily uh look at a at a mill rate which is going to implicate the undesated farming. So does anybody have any questions? And I don't want to rush into it. take a look, you know, look look over this budget. Anybody have any questions about the existing budget before I call for a vote? And before you call for a vote, there is a couple things to bring up. Um, currently this year, we borrow 800 from fund balance. Yes. 800.

Currently, doing the projections out, it looks like we will not be touching that 800 for the current year. We won't be touching it. It looks like currently and I will have a probably a better number for you after April but looks like they're going to be sitting with a million about a million. So that our designated fund. Okay. So if we look at the undesated fund as of the end of the last fiscal year June June 30 of 25 the undesated fund was 153 or something 15590. Okay. And you're saying based on those estimates it could go up by a million? Eight?

No, only a million. The eight would be included in the million. Well, because we never took away the 800 wasn't Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Never reduced it by the 800. Okay. So, the undesated fund um could be 16 590 in that range. I also going to depend on how the attack I I also want you to know that we do have the update on the painting of the building which was also a concern painting of this building.

We did get a quote for the entire building of $47,000. They also went through the history. Uh the north side was last painted six years ago in 2020. West side um was painted in 2021. The meeting hall and the rear entry were painted in 2024. That was two years old. Southside is 2 years old and the east side was 2 years old. According to Martinez, he thinks that you can do every five to six years depending on the type of weather that you have. But he's good with that. And 47,000 is what he gave Eric as a rough estimate right now to do the entire building. if not that we wanted to do it this year, but we told him we were thinking of what if we just did the whole building in a year versus one side.

It's quite a savings to do it all at once, isn't it? It is because they come in, they do the scaffolding all at the same time. Everything is done. It's 47 compared to what for one side? We paying about 8 8 n 8,000 9 10,000 per year. Mean for one side. Well, 40 9* 4 is 36. What? Yeah. It's not a savings. Yeah. I thought there were four sides. We're not, are we? There's four sides, but then they count this part, I guess, separate. Well, that would be important to know in that in in what we've paid in the past. Um I would think the east and south sides. Um let's see.

Um sides, this is the history. The east front and south sides of the building were powerwashed and the whole building was the whole building was washed, prepped and painted. The cost was 285 in in 2024. Those two sides but the whole sides were two years ago. And then the south and the east side would have been were 13 and 15. So 28. Um, and that contractor honored those quotes from early 2023. But you're So I think I just heard that the whole building was painted in 24.

No, just so it looks now.

And as far as funding, this is what Eric is suggesting. There's right now $8,275 in the fiscal year 2526 capital for town hall exterior painting. This could be used for power washing this spring and summer and the balance moved to for fund four allocated to future exterior painting to fund the coded cost of 47290 plus inflation. He said you can spread between fiscal year 2627 and 2728 or put the total amount in 2728. Also, Martinez said that they would come if once they powerwashed, if they saw any trouble spots, they'd come in, fill them, and do a a quick refresh on that area if there was a problem.

What do we have in the current year's budget for painting, Anita? Current year painting is 8,275 and the budget you have in front of you, he has 16,550. I don't I don't understand what's what's the eight versus the 16 8275 this year. So what's in the budget for next year? 16550. That's giving you like 24. It's like half half and then worse there is money. So basically by 28

building improvement fund have money in it and some of the money is in there for a city projections is about 10,000 but there's also in maybe 30,000 and I I want to focus on our endgame which is the budget for this coming year. Martha, if we have 165 in the budget for this coming year, do you are you comfortable with that number? Uh I'm comfortable, but then next year you're going to have to add a little bit more. I don't know what he's got projected. So projected out right now is 173 the next year. Have 24 at the end of next year, right?

Yes. 16 plus the eight bill of 24. That's almost half of what they're projecting. 47 to paint the building and the year after 17 and then he put 17 in the next year and 18 in the following year and you've is that when we need to paint the whole building we have to up that a little no 18 35 you' be at 35 plus 24 that's included in the projection okay so back to the decision at hand um is is the 165 550 okay with everybody for painting in the in next year's budget? Yes.

Okay. There are there any other questions, comments, concerns about the next year's budget? Was going to give us some information about the 237,600 for the paving of the bus bar. Oh, so it was not we we Martha asked him to come and just give us the history and and what's going on. But so to to set the table, what Tonda is saying is that we have 237,000 in next year's budget to repay the bus barn parking lot.

We have we have 137 374 will be paid out of the bus barn um from 29. 100,000 will be coming from the curtain from next year's budget and a 100,000 will be in the following year's budget. That was one of the changes that they did make. So it will be on the June July when they go to pay it next summer. They'll pay it in like June and finish it in July. So it'll go over two years. Oh, two fiscal years. But you're talking about June of 26 and July of 26. 27. 27. Okay. one, not this year, but you're extending waiting until the end of the next fiscal year, correct?

Um, so how much is in the current budget for the next fiscal year? 100,000 coming from general fund 374 coming from 137. Okay. So 137 is going to be in the 2627 budget and then the plan would be to appropriate 100,000 for the following year's budget. Right. Right. Right. And then have a total of 237 to do the paving in Juling on July 28th of 2027. As long as there's no increase.

Fair enough. But so go ahead Tom. Did your question. give you a little looked at back when I started supervisor that bus barn used to be the old sewer doors and when I came here they' already done the short hills we had some blasting done they brought all this blasting material down and filled these two big lagoons that rank at that time that Here we also drenched Rogers Lake. All that material came out of Rogers Lake, which we know what it was. It was mud was dumped in those holes. So when we saw him now, they can make it a bus bar got the deal and he we did he did what he could do. We put gravel in there and everything. The base of the thing was decent, but it's not a real good base. So by pulverizing it when you pulverize it all that black out it becomes a now a good base and you grade it and you roll it and it now that's what black needs a good base so it's going to crack. Now about crack sealing it. You could crack seal it, but with the base moving like that, you've already got 16 years out of that black, which is a lot for parking. But with the base moving or whatever and the black starting to go dead, that crack is going to sink. If you get a year, two years out of it, be lucky. Then it will you'll see a seal and it'll go down. Um, and given the increase of what the materials are, I really think we should keep do it because I those holes were big and I'm surprised

it's lasted this long. And if you talk to any paving person, they'll tell you that a parking lot is the worst thing in the world and that you can't get away with just milling it. You have to pulverize it, regrade it, and then you use that material as a base. It's a question. Yeah. You It refers to a 24 email that So, who looked at it for you in 24? Pastrack. Who? Charles Pastrack. He We don't have that document, right? That's not in the book.

Okay. So, he looked at it for 24 you have to pulverize it because it's not going to last. Right. But he also has been one of our high biders. He's also been one of our high biders. Yeah. But he still is a reputable paver. Is there a difference? Is there a difference in the quality of paving between? Yes. So you might pay a little more. Okay.

You paid for it a lot to it. What what repairs? So 16 years ago was put in the the the base wasn't good. They made as good under 10 or 12 inches as it could. What repairs have we done over the years on areas of the parking lot? What have you had to spend to keep it work? Nothing. So we've done nothing for 16 years because somebody said there were some repairs or ballards. Is that correct? Didn't you seal it at one time? Seal it. Did you seal it around? So we've never we've never sealed it. Okay. So we striped it

once upon you get 20 years out of the road. We got 16 years out the parking lot which all in is bus and turning and backing up and you should get 15 to 25 depending on in this area of Connecticut and as you say it's 16 now without the good base is starting to go. I found you got a home. You're pushing that 25. So what's the bid coming in? What are the bids coming in at for this? We haven't put there was any bid. There's a 24 Okay. 24 assessment which was not in a book. I didn't we didn't have an opportunity to read the fellow.

I just got confused. I thought you said Pastor Neck was a higher bidder. So I just got on the other. Yes. Yeah. We haven't we haven't we haven't gone up a bit on this. Okay. No, I think he spoke two years last gave him his last and what was that 250?

It was 220 and wasn't it like 220 is what he bid. it was like 220 230 but you know he's he's a wonderful guy and he does great job but there was no bid policy followed for years and he just would hand us out a number and we just go ahead and do it and that was the last year that he didn't we didn't we never we bid after that and and I saved a lot of money your questions answered yeah I just I was just wondering what the basis was the 237 bid because there was nothing there was no backup in the in the thing wanted to hear the history 16 years

you've had we haven't sealed it if we and so the other issue is that I share with everybody is if we make this investment there's some guidelines we're talking about sealing at the end of the first year sealing every couple of years to protect that investment so maybe we get the 20 or that you'd like to get future you talked about the wrong person about sem I don't like stealing. I feel like it stops the black from breathing. That's just me. But that's what you want to do. I mean, that's just I'm old school. I mean, people seal the driveway in the next year. But it may be premature to decide that. No, that's not that's an expenditure for now. But I just

That's what I'm saying. Back to the budget, right? The 137,000 that's today in next year's budget. Um uh we understand that an additional 100,000 may not be enough for the following year's budget, but I want to worry about that a year from now. We'll have it in the next time we go out to bid next year when we go out to bid. Actually, well, then we go out to bid. we should address Tom's question about the plan, you know, and uh

so this project we will go out to bid right after the plans vote uh flows in November because that's their best time to bid because they're trying to line up their jobs for next spring and summer. So if we can go out to bid in late November and get the bids back before Christmas, we'll have a better idea of what we're going to be looking at. But there were um nine of the biders came to the opening of the bids and they all told me that that's the way to go. They said, "Get us right after the plants close. Start putting your bids out because we want to line up all our work." And the more we can line up ahead and tell the paving plants what we're going to be buying from them, the better price we're going to be getting from them the next year. And I think what was also saying with the money we have left over from this year bidding of the roads.

No, it's in the bus. Got to stick with the roads. Just stick to the road. We're going to need it on the roads.

Okay. Back to the budget. Any further discussion uh uh on the budget? Hey, I we were talking about increasing the road allocation from a million to a million too. If there's serious thought about that, let's postpone it until we look at the total and the mill rate and so on and then come back and have a road schedule as well. Well, we got to make a decision tonight on the budget. Okay. So we got to go to the town in two weeks and present it to it can still be changed

within two weeks. We can approve it and then if we also you know a push and pull with the with the undesated fund if there's enough in the undesated fund to cover the road expense. Let's just take a look at what the current increase in the tax rate is before we So the bottom line number is 48213 522 on page three. Correct.

4821. Yes. And then on the uh mill rate calculation page here um the total number um net property tax requirement is 43215575. Correct. So the difference between those we got because there others there's other money coming in. That's the other revenue.

Where is that detailed? I gave you a couple. Okay. The only difference from the one I gave you a couple week,000 transfer in that I'm going to be taking from the entrance and that's on the on this the only difference. Okay. So I have a question on this draft piece of paper here. What is this second column? Is that is that just showing you?

Well, we've got the it says transfer in fund number nine interest from ARPA and it says 100,000 and it says increasing revenue 100,000. Those those are not related to the numbers below. That's just showing us that that's where it's coming from and that it's revenue that is reducing reducing the rate because we're bringing but only by 100,000. It's not changing. Okay. And this is bringing then we're reducing expenditures by 431. Right. Okay. And so the total with the two of them was 531 583. Yeah. Just not having the columns labeled is confusing.

So let's each just take a minute to look at

I thought you did a good job at the spreadsheet here. I'm getting a little confused on the last line, the carryover the um just the way the this page printed out. Anita,

oh on the first page, the the line on the left begins mill rate was 700,000 from surplus and then below that with no narrative is 800,000. Is that the number for 800,000 with the very top of the next $800,000 impact carries over on that page that basically the the number of the lines above that narrow I think it's just a cut off on the page 700 700 Oh yeah, eight's on the next page.

That's what he's saying. We're just saying we're missing the line. Just got to go to the next page. So with an 800 red Oh, it's not. It's missing over there. It's the 16.23. Right. So with the 800,000 in surplus, um the mill rate would go from 16.23 this year to 17.02 next year or a 4.83% increase in the mill rate. Right. Isn't it 0.7? No. Right.

The mill rate goes up 78 78 mil 4.83% 83% home improvements material amount 15.9 million bucks of new stuff probably would be more well I I thought that the assessment would have reduced and so had any new stuff would be off doesn't matter it's never gone down since we hired milit back in the front field.

What was our collection rate? Um, right now they're keeping it at 98.5. But what was it actually? It was a little over 98. This year was a little bit down. hit 997% of the box or something like that. Squeaking it in. Okay, we're adding a person down there. We were at like 99 plus forever. Yeah.

Is that fun though? That's not funny. moving to full-time because right now we hire part-time when we hire someone else to come in during the heavy season and when Suzanne's gone we're we're paying people to cover um that's the way it's always worked. Yeah. What that's the way it's worked historically. She had a part-time or a temp I think during the heavy heavy just like we did and we do do that. That is during this is that gonna stay that would probably stay. Yes. But she's there's enough work in there that they are humming all the time. I mean well the collection is not reflected. Yeah.

If you if you look back the last 10 years, take a look at what was just described as our collection rate for last year. I would be curious as to what that trend is. She said u the other when she came here she said we're slightly down this year over the previous year. We are I'm only asking because we have increased this number in the past because we've always been over so far over you know it was at like 98 and then we went up to 98.25 because it was still well over 99. So we were like trying to figure out why we were correct

had this overages. So we're much closer. It's just that it's you don't want to see it go to like less than 98.5. And if she's already lost, you know, a percentage of a percentage point, we're getting into that that territory of like how do you Well, let's see. How do you balance it? If you um How did Judy do it? Because you had to come in with a check.

You did. I mean, like 60 grand forever, but they were dead. the auditors how they do their calculation. But if you look well when she just gave her numbers today um so I'll get your financials out her overall from what the budget is always goes over right what the budget is actually set at. So she does go over. Well, what's the budget set at? Like is it obviously lower than the 98.5? Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. So she is always over that. No, like this year

we're talking about actual collections last 10 years. What were actual collections and what was last year for example? And that should be the metric for a tax collection. Well, the other part that really doesn't show right here and it it doesn't it all you could do is guess. You don't know is supplemental. Supplemental every year is really guess because it goes off of what people bought last year for college. So you don't get that number until actually January like November. I think that number comes in put a number in the budget like I went up to to but that is one number there that we don't I don't think we're going to act on it. I think tonight, but that's apples and oranges.

I'm just talking about absolute collections. Do you know what the collections have been for the last few years? That's what he wants to Yeah, they're in the audit. Yes. I I have to go. I do know that the auditor did mention that we went slightly down this year, but still above 98.5. Yeah. Now we're adding somebody fulltime. And they have the ability to pay online, so they don't have to come in with a check. Remember like those old days, everyone had to come in with an actual check. And what does that cost us? Oh, no, they pay that. Yeah, I think they do pay the fee. They pay the fees, but they have a tool at their disposal to be able to do something that that Judy never had, right? So, I don't know. I'm just saying. Anyway,

the other I think the other thing that would be interesting to know is how much we've collected in back taxes and does that get count that doesn't get counted in this number I would assume. Will they get counted? It's got to be counted somewhere as income. Back taxes. Yes. The revenue. Um Okay. Like 70,000 also included in your property tax over That's anything that was suspensed off all goes into that number.

Okay, let's let's let's get back to um the mil raid interplay on designated fun. And to start that off, Candace, your committee has thought about that a little bit. You want to tell us what the thinking was? So, I want to start by clarifying that we're not really a codified committee. We are okay. You you bunch of scallywags have been talking about this.

Um so a group of us have been talking about it and I'll start by saying that as we mentioned previously the um undesated fund was calculated at 15.6 when the in the audit report but um Anita reported that she thinks it's going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 16.59 million. So 30% seemed like kind of a a water watershed for us. Um having an undesated fund that exceeded 30% of budget um doesn't really gain us a lot in terms of our reputation with with the bond people or or any of that. That is a a diminishment of returns when you exceed 30%. So, um, if we say that our budget that we're we're considering tonight is 43215575, 30% of that comes out to 13 million approximately. So, um, you can see from the numbers of the undesated fund we were we were kicking around somewhere between 15.6 and 16.6. There's a few million there. um that are that is daylight between us and 30%. So um I'll just close by saying, you know, with with the discussion of the roads, um you know, it might not be prudent to go all the way down to 30% tonight, but I would recommend um going somewhere close. And I'll let the other people who were in on that conversation chime in as well. I think we need to be careful with that because monies, let's say we were to put a couple

million towards it, towards this year's budget from the undesated fund. What are we going to be able to do next year? We can only do a million dollars next year. That's an automatic million dollar increase to the taxpayers next year without us increasing anything in the budget next year, which we know it's going to. So it has to be a controlled and certainly um calculated um path to if the goal is 30%. We don't do it in one giant step because it'll burn us

down the road next year that quickly. Well, we have a a draft document um and Al Elena just finished putting the changes to it and we plan on sharing that with the entire board um at our meeting on the 18th of May or I could could we we could even send it out before that um for discussion once this job at hand is is off the table. Um, I just I'm I was not part of this group discussion, but I just want to remind us that we also talked about the use of the undesated fund as a tool to blunt the impact of the um bonding at the schools over the next well last year, this year, and then over the next two or three years. So, keeping in mind that there are still several years of that peak in the bonding for the schools. Um,

and then we got the high school coming up, right? Right behind that. Y I um I may have the numbers with me, but the the increase in the in the school debt this year is a few hundred,000 and then the next year or two is going to go up by two or three hundred. Then it's going to start going down and at some point it'll go down when the old bond drop off dramatically.

It's the old high school bonds drop out in the next three or four years. Yeah. So I I don't think that the concern with um maintaining money because of future substantial increase in its current uh school bonds is a is a big worry. But Andy's right that if we it's like people uh are going to become addicted to a $1 million withdrawal or an $800,000 withdrawal. And if we were to stop that, then the tax didn't go well. All I'm all I'm saying is that when we're looking at the at the surplus and how much you'll withdraw, we should keep in mind that whatever we're withdrawing this year until there's some positive change in the calculus, we're going to want to continue to subsidize it just to maintain the status quo. And I mean, we were fortunate this year, we're fortunate last year that there was actually a surplus over budget, but there's no guarantee that's going to be true in future years. But that's just one comment I have. Another is I think uh in in terms of what should be the minimum, I take I understand Candace's analysis or the the gang's analysis that from a borrowing standpoint, you you don't need more than 30%. Right. Um, and indeed you can probably get away with less than 30% if you need to. But if you want to just set a quasi arbitrary minimum, that's really good. 30% is in my view a very good percentage. But it doesn't mean that we should draw down to that number in any particular year. You have to look forward. It's, you know, theoretically you'd like to keep that in the future. The other things that come into play, Ed

talked about roads. Those are not going to get cheaper. Uh the other big expenditures are fire apparatus. Those are not going to get cheaper. Um you know, we we're looking down the road that Quint that'll end up being replaced, I think, after 25 years in service is going to be well over a million dollars for one truck. Um Edge's trucks don't get any cheaper. So it's and the capital projects, never mind the capital project. Yeah. PJ, can I say something?

Yeah. I think that um those are all things we should be thinking about except we talk about this in a circle every year at this time because we don't have a schedule of even estimates and say okay we're over 30% because we want to keep a 30% floor 25% floor whatever we decide because that's what we need for bonding. In addition to that, whatever is in this fund, we're going to spend it intentionally on these capital projects going forward because that would give us a reason to have it in there. But we sort of just dance around this every year and we're like, "Yeah, it would be nice to have all this extra in here. We should have we have this, we have Grassia Hill, we have this, we have that." But we never actually say like with intention this overage of say $3 million. We're going to put it towards X, Y, and Z projects. And that's why it's there. that's why we think it should be with there. That's why we're comfortable with it there. Um, and I think all of these projects are g we have to do them. But at the same time, we've continually taken money out of the fund to lower the mill rate and then we don't actually end up using it. So, it stays there and it grows. And I think that's not necessarily what taxpayers would like us to be doing. I think it would be much better if the the budget was what we expected it to be every year. That's what you got taxed and we planned better for these projects. And yes, of course, there's going to be projects that we think are more than we expected or projects that don't get done, but overall I just this is the same conversation every year. And um

so the cash flow projection I put together last year was purposeful for just exactly what you're talking about. Exactly. We didn't dance around last year, but it got politicized. It's the same thing, though this year. I don't We We again It's the same thing. We don't have a cash flow projection this year.

Correct. We We just This is This is But we still took out the 800 and then left the 800 and now it's potentially going to be a million. So, at what point are we going to say that's too much? like we're adding too much to this because there isn't a s a a definite suggestion. I mean, I would say at a minimum here tonight, we take out the 1.5

because we don't have a specific purpose for over 30. Yes, there's a whole bunch of things that we would like to get done, but until we do have a cash flow document every year to point us in that direction, I just think it is borrowing people's money and and us conversation. I don't think it should be 1.5. I think it should be one.

So, can I make a comment? The thing that has been mentioned has not been mentioned here is one reason why it's suggested that old lime have a higher reserve is because of our shoreline vulnerability. That's nothing we can plan for. That is an unexpected catastrophe to our tax base if something happens and wipes out, let's say, Hawks Nest, our largest taxpayer used to be the Garvin family. And yes, we'd be able to tax the sand, but let's take a look at

what the taxes on their buildings are versus what their property is. And if we were to lose that, yes, they'll probably rebuild, but if we were to lose that revenue for two years, what would that do to our income? Well, have we looked at communities? Have we looked at communities like in New Jersey that got wiped out by Sandy and how they made their budget work in in those years? One of the other things to consider is the status of FEMA right now and money from FEMA or lack of it. FEMA's gone in and fixed places or helped homeowners rebuild in

these areas. $13 million or $16 million. It's not enough. Oh, it's not. You're absolutely right.

So, I mean, this is sort of a moot point to I mean, yes, I agree with you that we need to have some money set aside so that we can bond for projects, but as we have seen in a bunch of other communities, if you specifically designate money for that in in your undesated fund, it's not a it's not a special fund. It's not anything. you just say, "Hey, we are going to reserve always 5% of our undesated fund for resiliency projects because that helps you with that bonding for this these sorts of situations. But just to say in the case that we lose our biggest tax base for two years, this money isn't going to cover us. And on top of that, at the end of that two years, when this fund is completely drawn down and we have nothing left in there, we then have to come up with a new plan to build it back up again. will be like every other town in Connecticut.

So, so that's why I just I look at this and I say exactly, it isn't just going to be old line that gets hit with a storm like that. So, there there will have to be funds from other places because we can't possibly do this all by ourselves. So, yes, do we need to come up with a resiliency uh uh objective? We do, but I don't see how taking $1.5 million out of our undesated fund right now is really honestly going to make a difference if the whole shoreline gets wiped out.

And my my concern with the shoreline argument, which has has always been made and isn't irrational, but is that it's entirely speculative. The the likelihood of it occurring um is speculative and the quantity, the amount of damage to the tax base is speculative. and and therefore the number of dollars that we want to reserve for it is speculative. I mean theoretically we should say we just keep you know increasing the undesated fund forever because I think FIA thinks it's speculative. They have a hundredyear flood plane and that suggested and 1938 was the last major event.

But statistically, I think I statistics was a long time ago for me in school. That doesn't mean that in 2038 we're going to have another hurricane. It means there's a 1% chance every year, regardless of how long it's been, right? You could have 200year storms, right? Year two years back to back. It just means there's a 1% chance that it happens. I mean, I think so, we shouldn't do it,

but but procedurally, we don't have to do anything tonight. And it sounds like we're going to get some additional information prior to setting the mill rate. And setting the mill rate, we always look at this sheet one more time. Well, uh, we we have a board of we have a hearing, a public meeting in two weeks where I have to tell them what the mill rate is that we're proposing, right? So that for the public hearing, I have to present the budget that the board of finance has approved and the mill rate that we are recommending. That equates to

that that equates to, right? And we always used to do like four different versions of if we choose to draw down, here's what that would look like in terms of an increase for your your own home. If you have a $400,000 home, we we we give we illustrate for the taxpayer the impact on their taxation. Yeah. Of the increase in the mill rate, but we always go to that meeting with a proposed mill rate. And tonight is the last meeting we're going to have before the public hearing. So, we've got to decide tonight. I always thought we just had we had like three or four scenario.

No, those were they weren't variable mill rates. They were home values if your house is 400,000. I remember that piece. Yeah. But we never we I don't recall having we go with So So it sounds like we've got a rug trade right now. So, u I heard a million five. Do I have to vote on anything? Yeah. Before we Did you say a million? I would support a million. Candace,

I just wanted to summarize kind of some of the ideas that were being kicked around. And I agree with BJ that our mission tonight is to set the mill rate. Um and the issues about shoreline, about fire trucks, about what we're doing with the undesated fund is not going to be resolved between now and when we set the mill rate. I had envisioned that um that's a bigger project and a looking into the future I would like to see transparency where instead of saying everybody sort of having different ideas about what the undesated fund is for we would be very transparent and say this portion of it is for resiliency and by the way if you make that statement you get all kinds of favors and and this town of Brford has already done something like that. We could take another portion of it and say this is for roads or we already have a firetruck fund.

We have a road fund. So and we have a road fund too. So we get another project education. Maybe it's for schools. It's that you say what is the resiliency project that you'd like to do? It's it's just exactly it. If someone comes forward with one, we have said, "Okay, we have this money set aside." So, it's available if someone it's within the undesated fund. It's not a it's not a separate fund unto itself. It's a percentage that we're willing to take out of the fund to say this would only be used in the case of doing some kind of resiliency project. And and that has looked favorably by the bond companies for shoreline towns. I designated

Yeah. It's not on if you say this percentage is going to be used for something that's designated. I agree with you, but there's some sort of the state has allowed this. This is Brford has allowed for they it was one of the first towns to to use it. This the legislature offered this up as something that shoreline towns could do that you can say you don't actually have to have a specific fund for this. It is allowed that you will say so put it aside. We don't have a cash flow projection. Right? Andy's point is right. We can't take three million out today because next year we're we're going to take zero out

and who knows what happens during the year. We took out $1.1 million three years ago, I think, um during the course of the year, but we had to go through town meetings through town meetings. So, we do have some very expensive projects that we don't know where those are going to uh fall out. So I I would say uh because we rarely do touch this so we overbudget totally agree with that but a million5 I mean why not you're going to run into some issue I agree. Um so a million bucks seems right to me but we don't have the information to do anything except for road trade.

Um can I ask one more question? Not yet. Um I think the defense of the million five you're right we always overbudget at least in recent history right and we end up with a long history of well and so this year we overbudgeted by a million5 and a taxpayer could say okay you've got a million5 extra at the end of the year give it back or we collected more the $100,000 we

but for whatever for whatever reason um a million5x excess give it back. So that's one comment. Second comment is if we have a catastrophe, the 30% is not a magic minimum. We can go down to zero if we have to, right? Uh it's just we're depleting our savings account and the average in the state is probably 15 or 16%. So again, just in the event of catastrophe, we can go down below 30%. And finally, who knows what our fellow towns have been going up? Who does anybody remember what we the paper has every day discount going up x% went up almost 6%.

I think I read somebody else seven or eight%. Is it nor was nine this morning was in the bill? I feel like East Line was eight, but they're a mess. That doesn't I have a question that Anita maybe can answer. How much have the schools um not used or given back to us? I know they we don't they don't get give us a check back, but how much have they returned that we also have not used? It is. It is. And and I think that

our percentage total sum of the refund was 535 865 98599 went to line 437 266 came to plus they got to keep 2%. So they overbudget every year by 3%. They used to budget 2%. They could only keep to 9%. Baseline is 8.7. You know, we don't 8.7. Saying that we overbudget is inaccurate. We don't over We do not over We do not overbudget.

We we end up collecting more revenue whether it's in taxes or from the building department or in town hall. And we have department heads and boards and commissions that don't spend all their money. And that's which is okay. You don't, you know, if they don't need it, they don't buy it. You don't want them on June first saying, "Oh, I got $100,000 left here. Let me find something to spend it on." So that's what contributes to our fund. Turning over budget to be a negative criticism. Well, that which I think we have to be careful of that because we're we're not budgeting.

No, no. And I agree that that's unfair. My words are we budget conservatively. But then when we end up with a surplus, the question becomes, what do we do with the surplus? And that's what we're talking about. Let me just point out that the the numbers at a million dollars, I need to make sure I'm doing this right. Yes. At a million dollars, the uh percentage increase in the mill rate is 4.36. At a million5, the increase in the mill rate is 3.16. So, just to

Okay, you're doing I'm doing it with from what our current from what our current is I counted. That's why we did the if you do the million. He's just looking at the We're just looking at your sheet. That's what I'm saying. Well, but you've got mill rate. I did. I included where we were with a million from surplus. Yes. Is.7 is the right and then 4.6 what is you know counting where we are today really if we didn't take the 100 we would have been at 1655 so that's why I adjusted the total

right so more realistic compared to the mill rate we're charging this year yes I was using that so that's why the numbers are a little off than if you did the math um but if you took the million the million we're going to be here and it's going to be 16.94 so it would be That was zero. Okay. Or 4.36%. Yes. I'll make a motion that we take a million dollars from undesated fund to offset uh the increase for the 2627 budget. Second.

Okay. Discussion. And what just um so that I can have an idea why why the million like what where is what's the thought process on why a million versus any drug trading number? Well, that's what I'm asking. It's a lower number. Okay. So, we're just doing a negotiation. It's $200,000 higher than last year. I feel like that's where we're at. Yes. Two 200 Well, that's where we are because we don't have a cash flow projection with identified uses as you rightly pointed out. Right. So we do we do this in a vacuum. Well, it's not I mean that's not fair,

but we we we have what I would describe as a pretty rough projection of expenses over the next five years. What are we going to spend on grass on uh Hall's Road next year? So we we have a pretty rough projection of what we're going to spend over the next five years. And the predictability or certainty of that is is low. I mean, you know, we don't have we don't have the lot higher. Well, maybe, but but it is what it is. And we have not currently identified other than roads any substantial increases in this budget. I don't think that that's going to elicit any um additional arguments from Andy besides I would like a million dollars. I not to put words in your mouth.

No. Well, that's that's fine. I'm just objecting to the notion that we're doing this in a complete vacuum. noting. Okay. Any other thing is one of the other reasons is it puts the increase below 4 and a half%. Is that correct, Anita? Yep. 4.36. I think that's pretty good headline. Um I think it's responsible short-term and long term until we have a better cash flow projection that goes further out. as do we have an idea where that leaves the undesated fund as a percentage? Well, we're going to put it back

590 which are we using we're using the tax requirement as the denominator or are we using the expenditure? I haven't in the past but that makes sense that we should I'm using the 43215 number as a denominator. Which one? 43. Is that what you just said or? Yep. Okay. So, the gross property tax requirement. That's the number we're using. Okay. And it is defined in the audit. I that is how much is needed, right? That is how much is needed to make the budget,

right? I mean, I'll just note that at least it covers the give back from the school district and passes that savings on. Um and then another 500,000 really I mean I'm giving a rough number but 30% I get you know it comes out of the reserve so there's the justification there that we're taking the school surplus and giving that back to the taxpayer I think that Maria has that comes into play the the number that the school reduces how much we pay is that is included in that 33 33 they take it off our bill that 33 They take it off our we don't get a check to us.

Yeah, but we still collect it. We still collect it. They come off their number. Each year last year% next year after the million is taken off, uh the the 15590 equals 36% of our tax gross tax need for this year. still very healthy on this fund. Still puts us probably in the top top seven in the state in terms of percent. That's what the auditor said. The auditors

I mean I think it additionally says something that we pulled 800 last year and don't need it. Like I think that says that there's more that could be done especially when life is expensive. And

I think it would be nice to see the the money that the school doesn't use, the 437 I think you said it was for old line and the 800,000 that we didn't use. If those two were combined, so that's roughly 1.2 or 1.3. I think that that that to me is like a number where you can say, well, this is why we're using this number this year. And I would like to help any anybody that wants to do if you want to do that cash flow projection and get a real idea for next year so that we're not in this. We did it and nobody took it up. So I'm all all done with that sort of thing.

Okay. Um because I do think that would be really helpful for us to look at it and say these are the upcoming projects. We know we anticipate going to town meeting to take out another million dollars throughout the year. If we have the ability to do that, then I think it's really important that we have that discussion. um in these meetings. But that's where I would I would I'll move the motion. BJ, I So can I ask a quick question of Anita? Yes. Region 18, the number the 33,587 is that our reduced billing number, correct? Okay. So that's already netted out. So that's already netted out.

That's already netted out. That's not like again we're not getting half of $425,000 back. That's less the 425 already. Prior the numbers 3425. I just think though it's sitting just that number doesn't change. That's what we're going to be build in July. Okay. Or a 12th of that. So I'm getting ready to ask for a vote. Any other comments, questions? So the the motion on the table is to withdraw a million dollars from surplus. All in favor say I. I. All oppose say nay. Nay.

But I think that was three nays to two eyes. Motion does not pass. So it's only you don't vote. No. No. You're not. I just thought you were my voice. Okay. So, back to the drawing board. I'll move 1.2. Second. Okay. Uh 1.2 million has been made and seconded. Any discussion? No, I mean I think we already have discussion. I think that I just think there's more that we could do.

I'm not pitching people talking. Does anybody want to say anything? I I uh just would reiterate that I just think that we are well over the 30% and we don't have a specific purpose for why. Um although there are lots of things that are out there and it's still very healthy. Um and well over 30% if we take out 1.2. And I just think that at this day we're we're all talking about how there is so much need and how costs are going up that anything that we can help with right now because this is money that the taxpayers we collected from them and I think it's beneficial to give it back. Any further discussion? All in favor say I.

I. All oppose say nay. Any obstance? Okay, that motion passes. Did you get the vote? Well, thank you. Just um I mean, you know, when you're dealing with money and millions of dollars and there no hard black and white criteria side, it's a discussion. I think this is good

and I look forward to next year having more concrete information around it. Um, I actually have the Kelsey Oldline 2526 budget and balance estimates right here on my computer and um, you know, hopefully we'll have that. And I'm also looking forward to a spreadsheet um, which lists out the capital projects that are projected and we'll have a better conversation a year from now. I think we should start adding Sorry. Yes ma'am.

I also with some of the capital again that's I have to brought up with all the departments that they have to give me their number and they have to go out and get quotes. I asked for so much and I can't go out. Well, I I'm only as good as like the partners that come to me with their numbers and none of the numbers I have to use for a budget

and and we have to be strict in the fact that if you don't go out and get your quotes, it's not going in the budget until you give us the quote and it's back up. um our our next project in our sites. Um Elena just sent me an email today saying she was would start work on a policy having to do with how capital projects are proposed and maintained and carried over.

Let me I' I've been busy. I know that you circulated an email and and to maybe everybody about a presentation that is going to take place in May. What's the subject of that?

So, um, when Fred and I went went to CCM, we learned about a, um, a tool called Clear Gov, which is, um, an electronic application. And so, instead of getting this stuff, you can get something on this stuff. And, um, I have floated the idea with with Anita. Anita said that the current uh tool that she's using, she's um looking to have an upgrade. Our current software does not work with Clare Gov. Um our current software. Um so one, it would all be manual entry. I worked with Clare Gov before. Okay.

It's all a manual entry. So I would have to input all the numbers. Every time they change, I would have to input them because we do not have the bridge that it needs. Okay.

Um, so I know that the software will not the software is 6,000 for the base model and that's a conversion fee of like 3,000 for the first year which I've also done conversions for in a previous role. Um, so currently we don't have the capability. What I would like instead of clear gov is let's go to immunis project uh software which is about $30,000 a year and it has a budgeting tool included because we want to use the budgeting book that is part of clear job that's $20,000 a year fee on top of the 10,000 conversion. So I would rather have the software that is just as good if not better because it would be our financial software that can give you better reports. Everybody would have view capabilities. Um and it's a larger whereas the software I have now we only have a couple users on it and so no one else can access it. No one can see their reports. So to me cler gov right now is not doable here.

Okay. Yeah. I didn't I I don't want to get into a substantive discussion of changing the entire accounting system of tonight, but if you want to do it, you talk to her and you talk to her and that's that's fine. Um but but not tonight. I was only interested in in in the procedure. Is it an in-person meeting or a Zoom meeting or what? It's just a Zoom demo. All right. So, somebody raised the question of FOYA. But my my point is if you want to invite people to attend a Zoom meeting, isn't that fine? No, it's not. Can't have more than your quum. Well, but there's no opportunity for

First of all, if you wanted to do if you wanted to do a presentation, we do this at board of fine selectment all the time. Just invite the presenter and they spend 20 minutes of a meeting presenting to you and then you can ask at a at a public meeting. Yeah, that's what we do all the time. Okay. Um, make it public. Well, it sounds it sounds like we need to go back to the board drawing board anyway because um I'd ask for forgiveness, not permission. An Nita and I had been had a few email exchanges about clear. Yeah, maybe if we made it open to everybody that it's no longer just us. Okay. Next item on the agenda is um our first select woman want to revisit. No,

we have other business I have that's that's under other business me. Yeah, we've got we've we're going down the list here. I I just have a couple of thing good things to tell you.

Um Eric and I have looked into a program with Energia. We didn't qualify, but because we looked into it, uh, Eversource picked up on the fact that we were looking for energy savings and they put us in a weatherization project for this building and they will be um insulating this building for $48,000 96 48,9667 free of charge to us. Um, and that will be they're bringing out the letter of agreement. It's um a program that they're running this year and if they have money left over, they'll look at some of the other buildings. Terrific.

So, that came and we'll have the letter of agreement checked by legal just to make sure we're all good, but the company's reputable. Ke Eric's already gone in and done all the background. They've been here. They've checked building, etc. And as you know, when they exposed the second floor beam ceiling in land use, they never went in and insulated that attic area. So, that is one of the things that we insulated. Not to mention that Michelle and Anita are hoping their offices are warmer. So, that'll be good. Um, and then also, um, you had asked for information about the town engineer and the we sent over the bid, uh, policy. We sent over uh everything that we had set out for proposals and this is the answer on the question of whether or not the described engineering services are routine professional services within the meeting of your attached bid policy at exception 9. We agree they are routine. So that is for the Halls Road engineering. Um, also just um my other thing is that um Jim and John and I agree that um 102-1 that we need to be responsible to this town just like we asked people to keep their yards neat. We need to keep our yards neat and we want to um pay TRC to do that phase one. I had asked for the $4,500. Uh Nita says we'll find it in the budget this year. somewhere somehow. I just did one to be transparent with you because I didn't want to take it from something that might not totally quantify as a phase one, but um it's up to you, but we had the conversation again last night at our meeting. Um we're the board of selectmen. We researched this for three, four months and we went out and we got a bid that we felt was proposed what we needed to do

and we know that we have a site planned forward to try to get grants for free to do the cleanup if necessary. So, um, we're adamant about this and we would appreciate your support. I think I was the lead in questioning that. So, I just appreciate you looking at it further and if you decided that then I'm fine with that.

So, I don't know what you want to do. if you want to appropriate $4,500 and then it's legit or we put it out in Ed's engineering budget which is kind of my engineering budget because I just telling so it's up to you it's not truly an to me it's just not truly an engineering thing so that's how I had a hard time basing it out to that so it's up to you guys because I was asking for your advice otherwise I'm gonna ask hers I mean I I think that like you. We don't have to vote on this per se, do we? Unless you want, but we do if it's an additional appropriation and we don't cover it then somewhere. But you want to do

I mean I don't see the point of phase one property. So I And how much is it? $4,500 and it's easily available in today's budget in the current budget. We'll find it. Yeah, we have 1.5 million bucks. Huh. We over budgeted by Okay. Um, not apologies. I we we uh David and I decided not to vote on the budget until we had gone through the mill rate thingy. So, we haven't voted on the budget yet. I want to I want to do that. Um,

I have one more question. Going back to the Halls Road engineer conversation, um, I in conversations with region 18, they did not have an owner rep. um overseeing the Mile Creek project which I think has led to a lot of uh messiness. That's cuz they went with they didn't go with design build like we did with

it's that that's here nor there. But my point is um the town engineer just seems like that should be someone who sort of is acting as your owner rep on these sorts of large projects. So, who is going to if well, if they're their the they're the engineer, how are they also then going to be overseeing from our perspective their work? I I just think like there's a little bit of a conflict there because you're saying they're going to have a $170,000 contract to do this work which I mean I know you questioned it so that rightfully I think but then who is going to oversee that to make sure that the survey for instance that's in there for $20,000 is getting done to the specifications that we need it done to and that at the end of the day we don't find out like oh that wasn't quite done right we need to go redo it because that's what's sort of happening in this situ situation right now and you're like, "Wait a minute. Why are we redoing things? Why are we fixing things over at Mount Frequin? Had someone been overseeing this on behalf of the customer to say, "No, no, no, no. That that's not the way this is going to get done. You're going to do it this way because this is what we said in the contract." I'm just from your perspective, I think I'm a little concerned. I think you were too that these guys were going to be the town engineer and therefore engineering this. But then who's looking out for us

in this? But let me ask you if that's part of their contract and their job. Yes, it is. I don't see it as a contract. They are looking out for us. In other words, they're they're preparing the designs and specifications and then ensuring that they're carried out, which is typically in a different scenario what an architect would do on a construction project, right? the architect does all of the drawings and the construction drawings and so on and then uh has as an critically important part of their work overseeing to make sure the work gets done right. So it it doesn't trouble me from a conflict standpoint and as I told you DOT is going to be huge on this project because of the fact that Okay. So as long as you're comfortable that somebody is going to be because we don't have a guy in the in

it doesn't need to be separate because it's not the AR you have a project manager. Yeah. You have a clerk of the works. That's what we did when we renovated the town hall. We had clerk of the works. Right. There was a third party that administered everything. That's what the school has not done. Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's what got us into trouble and got us to 57 million bucks worth of stuff that we may or may not have needed. Um, so did the design build group. We had a project manager on our site that was working for us and worked on both for EOC and it worked out especially as the numbers get bigger.

You have to have owners rep you have owners meetings every week. BJ, you were part of them for the senior. I'm just saying for the Halls Road purposes, is this company also going to be performing that task for us? Even though they're also the ones who It would be one thing if they were just doing the design and then they were like, "Nope, this is how the design needs to be executed." But now it seems like that contract looked like there was more stuff involved. That's that's what happened at the schools and that's what happens at the senior center and everything else. So I think you might have an argument there to go back and be like, "Wait, aren't you guys just supposed to be the ones who are maintaining?" Yeah. coming up with the document engineering part, but if they want to get involved in that construction part where the real money is, you need a third party. The boat house had a clerk of the works.

Well, first of all, our first halls road sidewalk committee is tomorrow and um they will they will be looking at the proposal as well. Uh they'll all have a copy of it and um cool. Tim is going to be my pencil and pen. He's the king of clerk of the works. So then what was that document that was kind of like this paramount document that was like we found it we saw it in 2019 then again in 2021 there was a notation it was updated that sort of governs how the yeah

we talked about it a little bit I wasn't here but it seemed seemed to me that it was sort of would help clarify what goes out for RFP what what does not so about debating policy. Y I have it. It does. And and we do. And that's that was the part that you asked me to send to him. Did I ask for clarification of three 3 A and B those two? And he said and he said yes. He said he said that is your that's why they did approve it drafted it. We hired I don't even think it approved. It's why we hired is it was completed but never approved by the board of selectman or the board of finance like a long time ago. Are you talking about the bidding policy?

Yeah. The one that I brought to you when I took office and said you did you approve this and you said yes. You were sitting there. Andy was sitting there. I said did you approve this? And you said yeah we took care of that. And Bonnie says you also voted on it. And I can go back and find the minutes but she said it was approved. That's good news because I was told that we didn't do it. Well, I didn't think you did either because it's not noted on the bottom that it was amended. It said it was amended, but it doesn't say amended and approved. But I'll be more than happy to go back and dig through the file for it right now. And Martha has the Bonnie says it was Bonnie says it says approved 12219. Yeah. Okay. That's one in the office.

Okay. I I'll move the budget. Here it is. Approved by board of selectmen December 4th, 2017. Reviewed and amend and amended January 22nd, 2019 by the board of selectmen. There you go. There you go. You don't remember it, but it's okay. You've moved a lot of things since then. I don't know the water or the bridge. Yeah, let's go. The along the budget as presented tonight has been approval of it has been moved by Dave and seconded by Andy. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. Any oppose say nay.

Any abstensions? It's approved. Thank you. Just like the bidding policy. Just like the bidding policy. More prominent than in a very small. Um, any public comment there? There. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead.

I have good news for you. Um, Ed gave me a few vehicles and we put them on the public surplus site and for the total of the three vehicles, we received $20,800. We sold the N we sold the 1997 International for $7,300. We sold the 2008 Ford for 11,200. And we sold the full animal control little van for 2,300. And we have And we have another And I have another one out. And we have the police car out for 2500.

2500. That someone called me today and said, "If I give you 25, will you take it off the bid today?" Um, so I'm waiting to make sure they're good for so we'll have even more. And so the parking lot at the police station will be a little lighter. Ed's cleaning out. He's doing spring cleaning over there. solves all our budget problems.

And there's some revenue and you did anticipated revenue. Yeah. Amazing. Final item on the agenda is public comment. Anybody online want to comment publicly? Elizabeth is on. Elizabeth, who's the 1886? That's Martha. Oh, that's Well, I had to be on so it would take Elizabeth. Do you have anything you want to say to us? You're muted. She's asleep. You're accused of being asleep. Okay. Motion to return. So move. Second. We're done. Whatever.