Affordable Housing Commission - Regular Meeting

Well, maybe that wasn't him. So, it's it's u we'll call it 510 anyways. And uh so why don't we get started and um I'm going to go ahead and seat Lori and Anthony as as voting members. And um we'll now take attendance. Uh it's Jen Miller, got Lori Walker and Anthony and um Sheila Riffle on the line and uh Amy Hoser on the line as well. So and so we'll get started. Um so there's uh any agenda additions or changes that we have from anybody. Okay. All right. So we'll get started. Any members of the public on the line or in the room hiding somewhere? No. Okay. So we'll get started with that. Um so um first thing we'll do is approve the minutes from the last meeting of May. Um, could I have a motion to approve the minutes from May? So moved. Thank you, Anthony. And a second. Second. Thank you, Lori. Any changes or discussion about the minutes? Okay. Hearing none. All in favor of approving the minutes from May say I. I. I. I. Right. Any opposed? Okay. hearing. None. Motion passes. Okay. All right. Well, let's move on. I'm going to steal your music. That's okay. I got you. We always go in the same pattern, but um so uh has anybody had any correspondences or outside contact with anybody from anywhere about our commission? No. No. Okay. Um the only general correspondence we've had um in our mailbox is uh basically that um a couple of the abutters that were notified for the

McCullik um property um zoning variance uh which was you know for the frontage of the street um to to um that went to the ZBA and that was the public hearing on May 15 17th um we had two letters returned like return to sender So, uh, they, um, I don't know if they're not here, whatever. We'll have to figure that out. But, um, as of the record of deeds and everything, they were properly notified, but we got the letters returned to us. So, u, so, uh, Fred, I'll notify Fred of that and he's he's really project managing that aspect of it. U,, but that's been the only correspondence on that end. Um, on the other end, we've been asked by uh Martha to uh to actually take a vote on the 11 Avon property. Um, and I'll just briefly summarize where we were with that. This was a uh a tiny tiny piece of land uh less than.1 acre I believe that um the town owns near Rogers. Rogers Lake. Yeah, in Rogers Lake 11 Avon. And uh the neighbor wants to buy the property from the town. And uh they uh so before Martha says yes, you can buy it, she wanted to know if anybody had any, you know, like affordable housing or anybody had any use for it. We had already come to the conclusion back a couple months ago that it was too small, it was too tight, uh it was we had too much other things going on that were more worthwhile and we said we'll pass on that. Um, so she took that, but now she wants a kind of official on the record vote on that. So, um, what I'd like to do is propose a motion that, um, we, uh, go back to the board of selectmen and officially advise them that the affordable housing commission is not going to do anything or is not able to

do anything at this time with the 11 Avon property and they can go, it would be our recommendation that the board of selectmen go ahead and um, do what they want with it. What do you guys think? So moved. So moved. Second. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And any let's discuss any discussion on that at.1 acre. It's it's not buildable and I don't think it's of any use to affordable housing. Any other comments? Okay. I agree. That was Amy. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Just one question. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, you go ahead, Sheila. your question. Last meeting we were talking about two small properties that if put together might um we might be able to do something. It I'm assuming that's something different than this. Yes, that's a different property. Different properties. Yeah. This is between two houses essentially, right? There's Yeah. I the only other comment I have is that at that size it does not allow for a quality of life for a family uh to um enjoy family halls and that would enhance the existing neighborhood. Yeah. And we had also I mean I think this is back in March that we had talked about it might just create animosity if you know with the neighbors if we were to put up a teeny weeny home in that teeny weeny place you know in between two neighbors. So I mean not that that's the most of our concerns but but it is a concern you know that we don't want to you know go overboard and we would not be able to develop that property for years. So it

would sit vacant for years. And so the best use of for the town I think would be to um just take the money and uh one of the suggestions was that we see if we could take that money that the town receives and allocate it to affordable housing um you know endeavors. And so that's still something that we could also recommend to the board of selectmen. Mhm. I like that. That's really good. Yes. Yeah. That's really excellent. Okay. So, so I I think um then um the motion stands, let's vote on the original motion as proposed and then we can talk about the other thing. So, um all in favor of the motion as I re as I cannot reply reiterate but uh say I I I Okay. Any opposed? Okay. So, the motion passes that we will recommend to the board of selectmen that we will um officially officially um take ourselves out of the 11 Avon property. Um on a separate conversation we'll have with them that we we might recommend or suggest that it might be a good thing for those funds to be directed towards affordable housing future projects or our budget in the future. Yeah. whatever here. All right. Okay, great. I'm just making notes cuz I I saw last month our transcript did not get transcribed. So, um so let's see. Um on the other general update um we had was we were going to make a um form a steering committee to kind of push forward the McCullik properties and that's one of the things that I want to this could be under any of these categories project updates or general but um one of the things that

we're getting into now with the McCullik properties is really pushing forward on um you know getting the subdivision. So the as you know pro the I hope you know the uh the zoning board of appeals and the public hearing went well and it was approved for the variance that we needed. Uh so the next steps are to go to um the planning and zoning um per se. Um one of the things that will come up there is the driveway issue um for that. It's a 12 foot driveway right now. Needs to be a 15 or some say 16 foot driveway. Yes. Width. Um and then also uh there is no agreement with hope who is currently deed that driveway that we can use that driveway to then extend that driveway up into the Habitat properties. So that that needs to be resolved. Um so um that and many other issues. That's the number one issue though right now now that we now that we've got the uh frontage variance approved. Um so what we'll need to do is um well Fred and I think and let's discuss but what Fred and I think is um that we need to have a sort of a standing you know couple of people with um this committee but also with like uh Eric um you know Olsen and um Nappen Eric Nappen um other people in the town and the engineer and um developer that uh Habitat that in this case to work with them to figure out exactly what the best case scenario is. Um so we were told um you know third hand uh by other people that doesn't necessarily need to be 21 ft wide, doesn't necessarily have to be 16. It

could be 15, but it probably should not be 12. Um, and so the culvert also is meant for just two homes with normal traffic, not with four homes and things like that. So it may need reinforcement. So there's a bit of engineering things that need to be considered in the um in the design and then the maintenance of the driveways. So um so far what the what uh Eric's position is uh informally this is not like a standing informal position. This is just an informal um discussion was that um well Habitat and Hope should split it, split the cost of it of the maintenance going forward and the town should just stay out of it and it and gravel was certainly cheaper than asphalt and you know and that kind of thing. So um so anyhow the driveway issue is a certain thing that needs to be resolved um um and agreed upon by the town hope and Habitat. Um the comp the complicating factor is that um as you know hope um is trying to give habitat those properties and so it could be the burden could be all on habitat but that's for them to decide not for us. So, has because I know you were involved with Habitat, just a couple questions. Uh, have they offered some kind of informal opinion on this? Maybe they bumped into the situation before. Well, informally, yeah, informally, both of them would like the town to maintain driveway. I'm not on board for that. Well, you know, it's it's affordable housing. Is it 12? Is it who dictates whether it's 16? Is that a uh there's this there's a town ordinance. There's a town

not ordinance. Not the right word, but there's a town the uh mandate the width the fire department. Yeah, fire department. Fire department two houses. I know that. But it doesn't the width is not also dictated by it being a common access to more than one truck. No. Yeah. It's just access. It's just access. Yeah. Ambulance. Yeah. I mean, originally, this this goes way back that uh originally um open space um wanted like a little shootoff parking area like go up the driveway and then they wanted like a divergent so they could park there and people could access the trail from there. But uh that hasn't been discussed since since a year more ago. Remember that? Yes. Yeah. So that so you know there's so it's definitely kind of an issue that needs to be resolved. But the the bigger issue is that we need somebody to focus on you know that issue from our team and then also um u we need to put together who it is that we need to you know coordinate. So, why don't the owners uh maintain the driveway? Cuz they're on affordable housing. No, but but but when you say affordable housing, it's going to be middle class housing, right? It's going be what they 80%. No, you don't. Hope hope started out they were 30% when they started out. So, is that what they plan to do is to rent to a family that's 30% of your immediate? No. No. There's no plan. It's just under 80. So, it's 80 or under. Yeah. What happens is that you know I'm my I what happens when you structure it you might do it at 50 to 60 and don't forget that's household income if it gets to 70 you're getting the middle class housing if you look at the area

medium income gets a lot and driveways honestly if you really talk to people with manage property or develop property they're not expensive to maintain particular well travel is expensive. Yeah, it's a long driveway. It's a long drive also. Uh and it's downhill and it's not paved, is it? No, it's gravel. It's all gravel. Um but so so the the thing right now is that hope on the deed is responsible for maintaining the driveway. They have not been doing that, which is apparent to the engineers. I'm not a driveway expert, but that's what they tell me is that it's got ruts and that kind of thing. So, so somebody needs to kind of solve that issue. Amy, go ahead, Amy. Sorry. No, I was just wondering what happened um will happen at that point. And then you said you had to resolve it. I was just saying that in another way. Never mind. No, no, that's okay. Yeah. So, so that's, you know, I kind of think that um what part of the remit is and the next step is to figure out that driveway and cover and responsibility. Um and um Fred and I or Fred or I are are happy to kind of move that along um or to help somebody on this team move it along, but I don't think Fred nor I have the bandwidth to kind of like How long is it charge forward on it? Huh? Do you know how what the offset is? How long is the driveway? Um, it's in the site plan, but I don't have it in front of me. Um, it's it's over 100 yards. Easily. It's over 100 yards. Yeah, that's expensive. Easily over 100 yards. Yeah. Yeah. And uh and the culbert is like a I'm gonna say it's like a maybe a 36 inch tube, you know, but it's but it's over 20

years old, you know. So they're going to have to expand it, which means they probably have to they can't hear you. Yeah. So they've expanded the width. They have to put a new culvert in. And then that's over 100 yards is a lot of whatever right material you have to put in here. Potholes. I mean, I he could dial that in and he knows what the it's expensive now. I see. Yeah. Well, we were trying to get estimates on on the um construction or reconstruction and construction of it, but um we just haven't been able to get enough um detail in time um because we know we're just dividing up the lots. They don't exactly know where the houses are going, you know, that kind of thing. So the site plan is so draft right now that you know it's hard it's difficult to say where are the current driveway will split off to the new two houses. Let me ask um or if we can even use the you know I this is exploratory. I'm not all for discussion. Yeah, but you know um we received and I've been tracking that uh affordable housing bill 5 house bill 50002 which is now public act. Yeah, we'll get on to that later. Yep. I know I'm not going to get into that, but there's monies in there and there's a lot and I'm wondering if we can go to like the department of housing in order to make these two houses viable for affordable housing in our town and get a relatively small grant about 25 $30,000 to pay it done. Then no one has to maintain. Well, that's what we were trying to that's what we were trying to get with the small cities grant. Yeah, but there's no there's no new money flowing down out of this bill. Well, so not out of that bill, but out of the small cities grant, what we were trying to do was to get the 100,000 for that and the Mckim or the Kimick property. Um, but that is um because we don't have

any detailed plans like we don't have an engineering site that says this is going to be this and we don't have a cost plan for it. We just threw out a number 100,000 and what they want to see is like the detail like x amount of gravel, x amount of paving, x amount of this, you know, um barriers. Yeah. So, we could still apply. There's a number of grants we could still apply for. Um and and whatever comes out of 5,0002, we don't know. But, you know, uh housing also offers either housing or CFA. I can, you know, they're pre-development seed money. So, if you need to do an engineering plan, they might be willing to give you 15 $20,000 for pre-development costs, which have nothing to do with actual, you know, they it's the step because a lot of people, at least in my business, they're smaller and they don't have the pre-development money and that's what stops them from developing. So, um I know that you you've talked to Mike Utoro. He's mentioned a number of times, maybe we maybe it qualifies, maybe it doesn't. Exactly. Pre-development money at least we get an engineering solution to it and a good cost estimate. Yeah. And that goes a long way and some you know state might give us the money to do. Yeah. Because even just I think the engineering estimate for both of those um would probably eat up half of our budget for for the next year. So I'm trying to get the mic over to answer. Well, that's okay. Yeah. I don't we're back for the steering committee like trying to figure out um who could serve on a steering committee and that would include Eric Knap I I think he would at least need to be an an either an ad hoc member or or you know or consultant to you know the group and then we've been working really well with Tom Metaf and Dick Gates and the two of them have been just great as far as McCullik and

they're also going to be doing the uh Kimick property great. Um, as far as testing, soil testing, um, the health district has been great. Um, they've been phenomenal, meaning Ledge Light, Ledge Light, LHD. So, they've been great. So, all of that has been coming through very well. Um, so anyhow, what what we're looking for is just putting together a small group of people that can um, you know, can only be two from our board. Okay. Um but um at most two um and then you know just kind of tackle that issue um and then there will be probably another issue after that you know that comes up but that this is kind of the immediate issue um to get that solved and make sure that we get through planning and zoning um with that information and then once the deeds are transferred working with Habitat um a representative from Habitat to, you know, then progress the project of McCullik, you know, and make sure not make sure that they do it, but that make sure they get what they need from Old Lime to progress the project, you know. Um, so I don't think we want to be sitting on those properties for 5 years while they continue all their projects in Norwich, you know. So, um, we we do want to, you know, have constant communications with Habitat once it's deed over to them that, you know, we can make sure we know, we can tell the citizens to hold on, oh, you can expect this, that, or the other to happen. Um, but once we hand it over to them, it's all in their control and and based on our memor memorandum of understanding that was signed a couple months ago, you know, it is under their control essentially right now. So we're just doing sort of the permitting process for them right now. So um so anyhow given that I know we don't have a full quorum

but why don't uh we think about uh like who might want to uh volunteer for that. I'm an alternate so I would not be comfortable and you should be a full member. But let's think about that. And um if anybody wants to do that, just either give Fred or I or both of us a email or text or call and we can figure that out and I'll make sure it gets out to Jim and u um I think Jim and Sean and Sean. That's right. Jim and Sean. Yeah. And make sure that they're aware of that as well. So, let's tackle that maybe at our um well, we might have to just do that over email in the interim, you know, wait till August. Yeah. Um Okay. All right. Any other further questions on um what the uh what the role might be as far as the steering committee is? No, I do think it you probably would before it gets formal reduce it to writing, you know, short Absolutely. Yeah. Just so you have guidance so people know what they're going to do in this ad hoc capacity. Yeah. And um and Sarah Leler, who's the executive director of Habitat um ACT, she also has some thoughts on it, you know, because she doesn't want us of course, you know, finagling in her stuff, but um she did said say like what exactly will you be doing? So, so we don't want to interfere with it's theirs, once it's theirs, it's theirs. But, you know, we don't want to like how how can we help, you know, how much money do you think you need? Like, what's the project? What's the site plan look like? You know, that kind of stuff. So, we want to be able to communicate to old lime. I say that u comment about being alternates. I would I would agree with because you you

know you might you you might work on this and then not be able to sit in a position of influence or to vote on it. So I mean I think it's the first alternative maybe someone who's a full standing member could do it and then if you have to go and select an alternate approach I'd do two steps and see and but you have to fill the position understand and then that way there someone would have an opportunity as a full-time member okay to get involved that's my own good point I totally understand okay and uh Amy or Sheila any further comments on this issue Nope. No, thank you. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. No, you're okay. Got it memorized. Um, so the other the other topic um real quick um is on uh see we did the driveways funding. Yeah, I'm just running down some notes that Fred gave project update. Um, anything on um over there by the firehouse um across from Kimick. Any Kimick? Yeah. No, no. So, they're going to move um Dick Mechaf and Tom um um so I got that wrong. Tom McAff and Dick are going to move over now um from Makulla over to uh and do the same soil testing, perk testing, map out the sites, uh um do a couple of site plans for us as far as potential accessways. Um as you remember, um hopefully that there used to be a house on one of those lots. Yes. And so there's already some remnants of

a septic, etc. And well and well yeah and so um so that should be slightly easier although it's you know it's already tree grown overgrown with trees and everything now but um but the other same thing um we'll need to do the access way probably some kind of variance um for something I'm sure will come up and uh a lot split and uh and that kind of thing. So uh so that they're going to move over to that that's a separate RFP. Um, so we'll be going to a different bucket of money for that, but we do have the funds right now for that. So, uh, we anticipate we do anyways. So, that should be all taken care of. Don't have any concerns with that, Amy. No, I that's great. Okay, good. Um, and then, um, I think that was all on those two things. So, um the other topic as far as um funding opportunities, we had to cancel the um public hearing on Monday for the grant for the small cities community grant for two reasons. One is we don't have any site plans or we don't we have a site plan in general, but we don't have a specific plan that is good enough for what Dominic or what the Department of Housing is looking for um in their in their design. and they want cost estimates with a specific plan, you know, that says here's where it is and how that's why you need it. And then the second thing is uh totally on me. It was we needed to publish 3 days in advance um in addition to the 14 days in advance um a notice in the paper which is unique for housing or this particular housing grant. So uh and I didn't do that. So um that would he said that wouldn't have been that wouldn't have mattered too much. It just would have been a little

ding, you know, but um but without the site plans for the driveway um that's like um nothing we could have, you know. Yeah. Well, we should follow the rules. Like any citizen in town has to follow the rules, you know. So yeah, it's just a little delay and Yeah. Well, um so you know, you get points for all these things. So did you have this point? Did you get that point? You know, so it's just a matter of points. But um but we're not ready for it in the end, you know. Anyways, so I think with this project team being set up and now that we have the zoning variance and we got through that public hearing and um uh that's all looking very positive and um there's no reason that we should have any uh you know objections you know going forward. all the abutters have been notified. Everything's fine and um and then Habitat signed the memorandum of understanding and so that's that's all good. So everything's on board with the McCullik project. There's no issues whatsoever except this uh you know right now the next step basically it's not an issue. It's just the next step that's the driveway. Um and um if we can get a variance from 15t to to 12 feet or you know we don't think that but 16 ft to 15 ft or something like that. We just have to map it out and and Tom and Dick will you know kind of figure out what the width is for that and Eric didn't think that it would be a problem. um you know no nothing formal this is just talk but um you know to go from 12 ft to 15 rather than 16 ft and and I don't know why that one foot makes a difference honestly um because I haven't been you know as a realtor it used to be 15 ft you had to have 15t width the 16 is new to me

that might be because it's four houses more like a road instead of two huh four houses well there's do hope and then there's two habitats. So, yeah, there's four houses off of that road. Like what I'm calling a road is a driveway to you. Yeah, it's a very very long driveway. Well, I'm just curious uh how you know I always look at the affordable housing commission not being the experts. You know, we're the facilitators and we have you know hope and habitat for humanity and people sitting there. How do you get this far into the project and find out about this comic access and the driveway being a potential issue? Well, because we always thought the town was going to take it over and maintain it, but there's no resolution that the town is going to do that. Okay. So, so when Michael and I first started, the the sort of what do you call it? The bottom line was, you know, they're not going to, you know, they're going to variance the road frontage and then they're going to um take over the maintenance of what we're calling the driveway. Um but that has not ever been agreed. So that's another avenue. We could still petition the town to uh to do that. Well, you know, it's it's a yeah, it's very common in my world that when you develop uh reduced housing or affordable housing called now that you can only make that work if you have parties contributing to it, including towns. Oh, sure. And it's very common to have it in in all contracts. I have one jumping all over the state of having uh services that are provided by the community to the development particularly if it's going to stay in perpetuity and that would be something

common because this would be for this kind of housing. So it certainly is not a a an orphaned project. It's very common. So we have contracts. You know the city does a lot of things for public housing throughout the state. One one example I give you is Oldchore Road and Oldchore Road is maintained by the town and there's only one house on it and so then it's a gravel driveway and they have to come plow that driveway every year and fill it in and you know and it's half like a quarter of the length of this road or driveway. Um so so there is there is an opportunity for you know us to still have that as an option. That's still an option. Nobody's ruled it out, right? I'm more comfortable looking at it that way because, you know, the community has skin in the game and they're going to u that's the way we originally envisioned and and the struck improvements on the property, going to pay taxes. Yeah. First first thing we need to figure out the the engineering of the driveway. Then we need to go to the town and say, you know, here here's the proposed here's how much it's going to cost. Yeah. And and Hope and Habitat cannot support it. So there you go. No, I get it. In my mind, that's that's the path. I think I like that process. You know, we do some pre-development work and then we ask them to Yeah. to, you know, provide some services and uh plowing I don't know, but maintenance I would I mean cuz that's the more expensive side. People get a plow to get up and down there. But if you can get the city to do both, that's great. At least maintain. Yeah. There there's already examples where you can do it in town. So that shouldn't be too much also. It's just that it's twice as long. Three times as long. Um but anyhow, okay. So um anything else on Mullik or Chem or Okay. All right. So I think that um the only

other thing then as far as um um old business would be the well new/ old is still the fair share you know in the bill 50002 that passed the Senate and the House the other day and I don't did Lamont sign it. He did. So yeah so now he signed it. So um so what the what we're planning on doing is um getting together with uh various other commissions uh planning and zoning and planning and zoning and um and uh like the selectman of course and things like that and putting our heads together to figure out um you know what the impact could be to old lime. Um so I'm just looking at our our fair share here. you know would be um 388 to 452 uh affordable units. Those are affordable units. Those are not total units. Those are affordable units. So um if you know if that comes to be which um people are still debating whether or not that actually will ever happen. Um so in order to do that of course if 300 is 30% of what? So, um, so we would have to build a gazillion units to, um, to kind of a developer would have to come in and and do that. So, so, you know, that that's still to be. Um, I know that there's a lot of chatter going on between different boards and commissions and the selectmen um to and the board of selectmen to to put something together on the agenda to um get the heads of those groups together and u see what the impact is um do an impact assessment then figure out you know what approaches we might take and of course working with Rivercog and a council of small towns and um you know

figuring out what their approach would be. And the feeling is uh that from Rivercog um at least on the um housing side of Rivercog, I'm not on Riverco, just the housing part, but on that side is that um they might want to just put together a consolidated approach. You know, that all of the small towns within Rivercog, which make up the shoreline basically, um we all have the same issues except for maybe those that have transportation hubs. Um then uh we would put forth a you know a a counter proposal if you will to what the ride free share act you know is. So yeah I can I comment on this bill? I cracked this bill. First of all uh this surprise was a surprise to everyone. this omnibus bill had been discussed that Rohas from East Harford would push it and he's had trouble doing this over the last couple of sessions. It literally showed up with really no hearings. Memorial Day weekend. Yeah. Memorial Day weekend. Memorial Day weekend. Um people influencers like with his fair share. Yeah. Uh no one wants to admit where it came from. It's a very imperfect product. No one knows what the algorithm is, how you come up with that many units in a town like old wine. It just goes to show you cannot run housing programs which are generally private sector from the top down. So everybody's upset about this. I would probably anticipate that they're going to formalize this and that will be maybe guidelines, but no one's going to be able to come close to that. They just somehow divided it up and It was it was based on actually the um the

affluence of the town divided by the number of properties that Connecticut as a state needed um times some kind of thing about the percentage that we already have. And so correct because we're an affluent town and we have low low um affordable housing units on the books then we get a larger fair share. So yeah, I know but that's that's nonsense. I mean, you know, people I mean, it just shows you how imperfect the bill is at so many points and this is one uh I you know, the conference in a conference of municipalities will probably be taking the lead on this. Well, that's why it never got out of committee for the last two years and now it's all of a sudden law. So, yeah, it it was that that I will tell you something else. There were provisions that affected public housing drastically. And so I made the point before it got the final vote, you know, in the Senate and miraculously, and I mean miraculously, someone, we don't know who it was, offered an amendment and stripped out these provisions that were very noxious to our public housing community on governance. It just disappeared. Showed up, gone. And we said, who did that? Our lobbyist in Hartford doesn't know how that happened. Yeah, that was Monday afternoon, Memorial Day. Yeah. Yeah. On 2 o'clock Monday afternoon. You know, I don't know why I don't know why we put up this hanky panky. It's no way to run a state of this size and sophistication. It is not for us to to know. Well, for me to comment on it was you for you to comment. That's But it puts like us and community in tough spot. Yeah. And and every everybody um the board of select men is very sensitive to that. They understand um zoning and Paul they're all everybody is in the same you know

kind of place. Yeah. And and Rivercog or at least the affordable housing part of Riverco. I don't know about the rest of them but and you know so everybody's in the same place. So um and not just not just old lime you know other towns. That's why use a lot of people and the fair housing commission is another element that's controversial. So, um, so anyhow, so we won't comment any more on that because there's nothing we can do about it right now, but just if you want to read up on it, there's so much so many things out there that you can read on. And I would urge everybody to read the both, you know, the one side and the other side, you know, so it can mush mush them together, you know, kind of thing because uh, desegregate CT, you know, has been pushing the live free or die or ride, sorry, live free or ride. And um and uh and then CT169 strong has been advocating for you know uh every local local zoning. These groups have no expertise in housing and and I will tell you this the experts in housing the multif family developers and public houses who do this for a living were not at least our industry was not contacted at all. Right. We were just shut out really. And even though we met with Rhos and had relationships and communications with him and his staff, we would all back door deal. No, the the advocate group certainly won the day on this one. Well, let them build. That's what I say. All right. Well, let's move let's move on because there's nothing we can do there. Um, so is there any other um new business that has come to your attention? I I just want to make one comment which uh the other issue with this bill is the fair rent commissions and what happened is that uh the law changed if your community was less than 25,000 people you didn't have to have a rent commission rent control commission.

They lowered it to 15. Then someone said, "Oh, if you're under 15, you can be put into a regional pool." Yeah. So all of a sudden, and if you read the the the law that's on the books that they have unbelievable powers to control rents. I mean, it's amazing. So all of a sudden, the old line is in this consortium. And I don't know how that's all going to happen. And people don't live in line, old line, Essex or wherever are going to be weighing in on rents. Yeah. It's probably Riverco is probably how they're going to split it up, right? So I mean if who wants to develop if you've got this group these out oftowners controlling what you can get for rent in this community you want to develop in or even the threat of it or you can lodge uh complaints to that and you're investigated. Yeah. Parking spaces. Well that's parking spaces. That's I know that that was that you regulate parking spaces. Yeah. Well, okay. Enough about enough. Anyway, that's my last comment condition. So, so um so anyhow, bottom line, we'll be exploring other funding opportunities. We're going to wait for the board of selectmen. Anony's having a fit over here. Um board for the board of selectmen to uh come back to us with what they need from us as far as participation and any kind of uh collaboration with the other boards. um and what opportunities, you know, we might find there. And um yeah, so uh Sheila or um Amy, any questions or comments? No, I that's good that they're meeting on that. Okay. It seems like we're um we're on our own sometimes.

Never mind. Yeah. And you're not because River Cog is of the same mindset. everything that we have done and are thinking um I find the same thing with Riverco and so that's 16 other towns so that's you know so all those towns are thinking the same thing that we're thinking apparently so we're not alone you know in that um there there could be some one-offs but as a as a general speaking you know and the council of small towns across the state of Connecticut is also speaking the same language So, um may just be the four large towns that are dictating everything. I don't know. Um but anyhow, let's move on. Uh any other new business? Not not for me. I'm just uh I'm anxious to help out in whatever way that I can. Not in the in between. So, um I think you and I were going to try to connect. I think I hear a volunteer. Yeah, I think I hear a volunteer. Yeah, I don't know about the steering committee, but um yeah, is there I guess a question that I have is is do we have a uh a a group um contact sheet or or something that we can exchange numbers? Yeah. Um so that should be um I should have sent that out. I thought I sent that out to everybody. I'll send it out again. But yeah, it was confidential. Okay. If you sent it out, I'll find it. I'll find it. Yeah, it was ear early days. Like when you and Sean joined, I updated it and then sent it out, but um I'll make sure that you get another copy of it. Just there might be something that appears on the town website too that I always look at. Yeah, it may not

be updated. Okay. Yeah. Um that's a good point. So, um yeah, I did I was browsing on there the other day. Don't if you sent it, Jen, don't go through the trouble of resending. If you sent it, I'll find it. Oh, it'll take me two seconds. No problem. Easy to resend. Yeah. Okay. And um and Yeah. And so the website, there are a few things on that website, by the way, that just need to be updated a little bit. So, I'll get um Tom to help me with that. The uh the IT guy, Meer. Yeah, Meyer. Uh he's been good. I just got access to the mailbox. um last week and so um there's a lot of stuff in there um pertaining to um you know so the summer fest or midsummer festival midsummer festival summer festival which is July 26th Saturday July 26th yeah and so if you recall um Michael had asked us to consider if uh we wanted to have anything at the table there's going to be a nonprofit table yes um and so Sarah is going to uh so uh the director of um Habitat for Humanity Eastern Connecticut. Um she was probably going to just have some brochure. She didn't think that she could have a person standing there all day, but um but she thought she could just have some Habitat brochures or, you know,formational pamphlets. Um, so I haven't talked to um Carla at Hope yet, but um they wouldn't really be promoting anything really for for uh Hope because they, you know, they're doing the rental thing. Um but uh so if anybody has any ideas or wants to stand by the table in a hot July, there's so many community groups involved that day, it's really hard stretched thin. Yeah. So, um, so that's one opportunity. The other one, just keep in mind, is an ongoing one, which I

don't think the next deadline's until July sometime, is the, um, magazine that comes out quarterly. Um, so that's basically like a that our town magazine and it showcases, you know, highlights things from Old Lime and it's like a 150 or 300word article we could put in there about like what we do or what we've done or what we might want to do or what we're doing, that kind of thing. Good idea. That's a good idea. So if we want to be part of that one, the deadlines are a good two months ahead of publication date. Um, but I have the publication dates. I'll send those out to everybody. Be good. Give us a little publicity. Free. Yeah. Did we ever I don't think it happened, but did it ever come to fruition? We were going to do like a a one or two page um graphic, you know, kind of a marketing piece kind of explaining to people terms. And um I think it got caught up in some people leaving the commission, but I don't know if they ever did any. Yeah. No, it wasn't going to be a direct mail. Yeah. I think it was the consultant from Rivercog that was leave that left. So um we had a communications consultant that helped us with the five-year plan, right? And um and she had some ideas, I believe, that well, you know, we can condense it down into like a like a primer. And and who was the principal that really nice guy? He was I think it was a principal Billy Bill he had some ideas. Bill had some ideas and I think he was and then he left you know he's teaching Spanish full-time now. Yes, he is. Um but yeah um I I'll make a note of that and um I can see if I can follow up on that in conjunction with this aspect of communications, you know, with the

magazine and the Midsummer Fest and and all that. So let's make a note of that and see what we can do there. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't heard from Bill since he left us. Yeah, he's I hope he's well. He's fine. I see him fine. such a nice walking line street having a ball. Yeah. Yeah. He's a nice nice person. Okay. All right. We'll check on coms on that. So So communications Yeah. is still going to be an ongoing aspect. Yeah. There's there's a there's an aspect of this that you know we we had thought we could get ahead of you know the community in in doing so. And you see how kind of that Halls Road thing blew up. Um you know everybody was saying affordable housing. I was like, "What? There's nobody said anything about affordable housing there." So, um, you know, and then how it was misinterpreted as like basically section 8 housing in my mind. Um, you know, so there's extremes how people think about affordable housing. You know, they think about it as this way or um, you know, the way we think about it as workforce housing and starter homes and, you know, things like that. And I think starter homes and workforce housing are more applicable to our community. Um, and you know, we do have like unbeknownst to people, we do have section 8 housing here because there are vouchers and they use the vouchers during the winter to stay at motel that are not occupied here and stuff like that. So, so we do have section 8 housing via vouchers, but we don't have projects, you know. So I mean it would be good to do communications and reach out to people like if you have a house that you wanted to donate or things like that land that you wanted to donate. So it would be good to try to do more right community units you know adus. Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah that all

that will get wrapped up kind of in the zoning uh re re uh reregs what do you call it? Reoing of the zoning laws. So yeah have to revise it. Yeah. So, and we'll be a part of that, too. So, once that project gets going with the zoning and planning boards, um, you know, they'll be asking for our input on those things as well. Um, so, um, so that would be something that we need to stay on top of the regs for and, you know, have our input ready for them on that kind of stuff. I know Michael is part of the zoning board now, which is awesome. um you know, but I don't want him to have to carry both, you know, burdens of zoning and affordable housing regulations throughout the state so that he can comment on that. But uh which he'd probably be happy to do, but but you know, we should we should, you know, make an effort to provide them the information that they need, you know, kind of thing when they ask us. I'm not sure when that's kicking off. Um but I know that they they got the funding for it when the budget passed the other day. So, so um that should be pretty soon. All right, that brings us to the end of new business. Any other um any other agenda items that are on anybody's mind that we think we should cover besides these um next things? This communication stuff for Midsummerfest we should probably do kind of in the interim between now and the end of the month really um because of Midsummerfest timing. Um so we we could do that offline. Um, so anybody that has any ideas other than habitat and maybe a condensation um um Anthony of the you know a primer basically on um what is affordable housing in old lime kind of thing. We could do like a one sheeter on that or something. Yes, a one sheeter. Yeah. And um yeah, I think that's could

we or never go ahead Amy could you broke up a little bit. Yeah. Um, have we done anything on ADUs since they seem to be um probably one of the most s salient options for old lime like um we yeah we old lime u affordable housing have not um because it's under the purview of zoning and so um but but zoning is trying to that will be on their agenda on the uh do revamping of the zoning regulations from A to Z. So they will be doing that. Okay. And when are they doing that again? Uh well it just got approved in the budget. So that will be July 1st starts. So they could hire a consultant which I believe they already have in mind. Um uh so hopefully soon but I don't know the I don't know the ins and outs of that. Okay. Okay. So, any any other ideas for the Midsummer Fest table? Um, just let me know and um um um by the by probably in the I'd say the end of next week to make it, you know, feasible for us to get something out um and and we can put something together for that. Is there like a little trifold? Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. And we could do maybe the same thing that would go into the magazine. Yeah. The same message. Keep it the same message. Yeah. Some messaging. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll go back and look at what Bill had together. You might have put something together. I Well, it was it was kind of like bullet points. Bullet points. Yeah. what we're looking for to do something and I lined up someone who

was going to donate services to refine it and then handle the mail. Yeah. But it just stopped. Yeah, it stopped. Yeah. I I think uh everything was about timing and stuff back then, you know, and everything and a lot of things postage money. There was a lot timing in this little town. What? Yeah. All right. So, um um so as as we know, we um canceled our meeting for July. Um however, if there is enough pressing need in in the interim that we see that we might need a special meeting, it won't be July 2nd, but it could be, you know, maybe the subsequent week or week after. Um if there's a need for it. Um and depending on how things move. I don't think anything's going to happen with 502 and the town. um you know during that time cuz it's the holiday and summer season and everybody's gone on vacation and stuff like that. So I don't anticipate it'll be before at least the early August before that happens. So um so the only thing we're concerned about right now is uh getting that driveway sorted out and then um the marketing materials for Midsummer Fest. Uh do you think anything else that you thought of just your ad hoc committee said you would put together? Yeah. Well, yeah, the ad hoc committee for the driveway basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I think that committee that would be the first project or first step of that committee. So I would like that committee to stay together, you know, for the duration. Um so um so that would be you know good. So to have continuity with you know the both the nonprofits and the engineers and uh the town and the town people for the mccullik property. Yeah. Specifically only for the mccullik property. Yeah.

Yeah. And the financing. And so we we uh we we got in the budget. Um I just haven't got clarity on what we got out of the budget. So we put in 15. I believe we ended up with 13. Um uh but we have a little bit of money we can roll over and all of our bills are in for as far as I know for this year um or this fiscal year. Uh uh so they have to be in by uh next week the 15th. And um and right now everything's cleared out of our queue. So um I'm going to make a last call for the bills to you from the attorney. The only ones we have is the attorney and Shapiro and the engineer. um and uh Dick. So, uh so hopefully there's no other bills that we have coming in on that. Um but we're in good shape with that. We have a little bit of money to roll over because we definitely didn't use all of that. All right. Final thoughts, anybody? So, my calendar says our next meeting is Wednesday, August 6th. August 6th. Next meeting. That's good for everybody. Are you here? Are you I'm here. Yes, surprisingly. No, I am here. I'm here till September. You missing? Yay. Well, that it's nice. I like meeting in person. I hear better. Yeah. Well, even so, well, hold on. No, that brings us to Labor Day because September 3rd is is the following and it's Labor Day. I flipped the calendar and thought I just thought the same thing. Monday, the first is Labor Day and then we meet two days later which is always a busy week. Yeah. Would we like would we like to talk what are you guys' thoughts on September 3rd which is uh two days after Labor Day or uh moving that to the 10th and we definitely have to have a meeting in September. Yeah. I think it' be

better attended on um September 10th. What do you think? I would not say again Sheila. Go ahead, Amy. Oh, I would not be able to attend. I Sheila and Amy are battling. I'm gonna go Sheila first. Go ahead. Okay. I would not be able to Oh, wait. Yes, I would. Never mind. Um I have another meeting that night, but it's later. So, all set. What do you prefer, Amy? Um I prefer earlier. Um the Was it the third or the fourth? Yeah, the third I've actually I've got it in pen on my calendar. So, if we just want to be consistent. Do you want to play it by ear and then we'll we'll decide in August? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Maybe when we have more more people in attendance get Fred back might develop, you know. I should be okay, too. But Okay. Yeah. We'll hold off on that then. So, we'll wait. We'll wait and decide on September later. So, August 6th that is. Uh, so that'll be our next meeting, August 6th, unless um unless we Fred and I need to call a special meeting sometime in July. Okay. All right. Good. Sounds good. Okay. Could I have a motion to adjurnn? So move, Anthony. Was that Sheila? Second. Okay. The time is 608.