Arts Commission - Regular Meeting

All the standards and we have rubrics and we have individual rubrics for each kids what needs to be worked on and then also group rubrics and what we're aiming for. We have worked with OUSD with Kim and John Hoy for intern hours. We had a choreographer who got intern hours. We have a future student that's going to get his tech hours with John Hoy with drama. So we have a real good relationship with them, I think. What's the specific need? We feel like half of our cast is probably diverse whether it's neurodivergent or whether it's ethnic divergent or whatever it doesn't matter because what we do is that we accept them where they are and we have them go right along with it we create the audition flyers in Spanish and in English, and it's made to every parent available. We even placed an ad in the Ohio Rec Center, that magazine that goes to every place. You probably would not find a theater ad, but it says, hey, want to come new to theater? We let you do it. We try to budget and keep in timeline. We borrow from other companies, oh yes, and we exchange costumes a lot. I borrowed costumes from Camarillo School, from Calabasas High School, from Irvine Parks and Rec. Our timeline is we start in January, in which we choose one show. We only do one show a year. Many other associations and other companies do more than one. We rehearse a couple of nights a week. early enough so they go home and first of all they have dinner at home and then they go rehearsal and then they go home so they get their first priority is getting good grades in school and graduate we know that once school's out then we kick into four days a week we um is that my time okay well i would love to say we we have 25 out of last year's students we had 25 students 16 were returnees so i think that says something for us now you can look at these pictures i do not need them back but you'll see these wonderful tissue paper flowers made by parents and students and have any questions for anything there at all Thank you Bridget for your help For this year, we did one in the first two weeks in August with Seussical Jr. It's a beast of a show. Can I say that? It has two pages of dialogue, and the rest of it is singing. So I did my thing with directing, and the vocal director took over. We don't know what our show is going to be next year, only because I put out a little secret ballot. But the ballot says, which ones would you like? Want to try out for which ones would you like to do tech for and then I we gather those together? And then I look the rights the rights are going up This is why I'm coming to the Arts Commission because Smitty knows I think and other people know that the rights for royalties Before we can even hand out script or start rehearsing the rights run anywhere between two thousand and five thousand dollars just for the property and We understand playwrights need their money and publishing companies need their money, but it's really affecting us, I think, because the rights jumped I think this year quite a bit.

Any other questions? I think you answered my question, but it was specifically that. What is your grant request targeted toward?

I'm going to say my grant request is for royalties, rights, and also for paying honorariums to these parents who work every rehearsal and the lowest honorary I gave was to a kid who did follow spot was $75 this year and the highest was $500 for producing and directing and that's another place where we have three former students who grew up through the program now they're producers so we're helping we're helping grow the artistic side of not only acting but producing and directing etc so anything else Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for letting me present.

Thank you, Gay. Give our best to the Arts Center. River's next. Mandala Medicine Movement. Hey, River.

Hi, I'm so happy to be here. I'm glad that I paid attention and knew the meeting was happening this year. Last year I missed it completely until months later, so I decided this year I was going to pay attention. So I want to first of all say thank you for supporting the Ojai Dei Mandala in previous years. And though it was really challenging last year to not have my grant go through here, it did you saw fit provides opportunity to go to the city and be funded by the city and I hope this year that it can be a line item part of the yearly budget but the mandala medicine movement is created also to have a legacy piece and I'm I'm just assuming everybody here is familiar with the Ojai de mandala and what I'm doing, so I don't need to explain. Bradley might not. You're not.

No, I'm not familiar.

OK. So for 30, this will be the 34th annual Ojai Dei Mandala painting. And what we do is we create a design. So this is something I've actually been working on all year, because I'm also team building with the younger generation. I just turned 70. I ain't going to be here forever. And I want it to continue. It's a beloved Ojai tradition. And so what we do is we create a design that is, in a sense, a skeletal structure. It's a beautiful design. And then we have places for people to paint pictures. And then we have places for people to do what we call wallpaper. which is a pattern in specified colors, and then we have fill-in painting. And so we have a cohesive design. We have so far painted with people from one year old to our eldest has been 84. And so we can do this largest public art project in Ojai with people of all skills and all ages. And it's our, so I wish I could show you pictures, but we do have a website. But before I start, I guess I better do this pretty quickly here. Over the years, I've come to understand that we're actually working with foundational principles. And I just want to honor Gay because so much of what she was talking about are things that I learned when I worked with Illusions Children's Theater. through the 80s, I worked with them for 10 years, and learned these kind of principles of all ages working together. So we have that same theme here as I stand up here after Gay. So our principles are inclusivity, love, meaning we're all friends, respect, we start with respect, honesty, we're straightforward in our communication, humility nobody's better than anybody else no matter what your skill level or age cohesiveness so we're we guide everybody to work well together creativity because everybody's creative one of the things we hear over and over I'd like to paint, but I'm not an artist. And we just look at each other and laugh. And then freedom and improvisation. So we have an improvisational aspect. People can come and they say, I want to paint a picture. So we talk with them and they can create it on the spot. And we've had a lot of wonderful things happen from that. Generosity, everything that we do when we do our event is provided for free for the public and then also we are able to be generous because of the generosity of our funders and our volunteers. The spirit of place, we're putting a foundational piece of beauty into the space and it really makes people feel like they belong. Peace, a peaceful atmosphere is promoted. I'm the mama bear, so I make sure of that. And then wisdom, because we can actually make decisions and take action, keeping the good of the individual and the group in mind. We apply our experience with knowledge and sound judgment. It is actually possible. and then legacy. What I'm here to talk to you about is one of the legacy pieces that I want to create. It's a video course series, an educational, to teach people how to divide a circle into different parts. One of the things I've found out over the years... I might need a tiny bit more time here. Sorry. And people are very... A lot of artists are afraid of math. And we actually took... My assistant and I took a video course. We're lucky to take a video course in learning how to do instructional videos. I have my first one on the website, Scribing a Circle, the Power of One, and it's in the public... May I, I'll just make this quick, okay, thank you. Thank you. So course two is dividing the circle into two, four, and eight, which is polarity, foundation, and infinity. Course three, dividing the circle into three and six, harmony and rebirth. Course four, dividing the circle into five and ten, life essence in the world. Course five, dividing the circle into seven, sacred seven. Course six, dividing the circle into nine, the nth degree. Course seven, dividing the circle into 11, intuition. Course eight, dividing the circle into 12, dozens. Course nine, dividing the circle into 13, 13 moons. And that's the first course and we'll figure each Video course, we want to make it as short as possible and we bring in obviously some philosophy, color theory, quotes by people and make it fun so that math and art go together and people are not so intimidated. Thank you.

Thank you very much. The final product is, of course, like online? Yeah, on our website.

We have the first one up right now. I mean, the production quality isn't perfect, but so far the feedback I've gotten from, I don't know, maybe 20 people is, oh, I didn't know all of that.

Thank you for that, very interesting. If I understand correctly, this is not about the mandala, which is going to be as it was last year, we hope, a line item in the city's budget. What you're looking at is a very different matter which relates to the video that you are producing. So what do you, my question is what do you need the money for and are you doing it as an individual or do you have a non-profit?

I'm in the midst of consulting to be a non-profit. I'm hoping by this time next year we will be. This is what I'm calling the legacy work because I've learned so much doing this over the last 30 plus years and The circle has so many implications to it and I feel honestly right now our world needs this. We need this to bring together. We've had people of all kinds of people come in. So this piece is an educational piece for other people who are coming in because I want the Ojai Dei Mandala to continue forward.

Right. I'm trying to get a sense of nuts and bolts, or rather dollars and cents. So it's production for the video? It's production of the video, yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you. Ms. Steiner, any other questions?

Thank you, Reverend, for everything you've done for our community.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you for a little extra time, too. Appreciate it. Amazing.

Yes, please. That's six minutes.

So should we just make it six minutes for everybody? We'll try five. It was for Brad's benefit. He didn't know what the mandala was. But thank you for your interest of fairness and brevity. Andra, you're next. Andra Belnap, I don't have the name of your project, so.

Thank you.

I will tell you. So I thought I had three minutes, so I wrote remarks. So I'll just go ahead and read what I wrote, and then I will happy to answer any questions. So, hi. My name is Andra Belknap. I am an Ojai native, and I write artful, long-form journalism and commentary for the Ojai Valley at ojailocalhero.com. My professional work centers around democracy and storytelling. I began my career as a campaign staffer to President Obama, and I held communication roles in national government and politics. After some time in D.C., I followed my passion for public policy right back here to the community, where I've spent many years artfully documenting topics ranging from the future of Ojai Citrus, to the Great Pickleball Debate, to local ICE enforcement, to local homelessness. In addition to self-publishing, I publish work in every one of Ojai's various magazines and publications, I think. My work is extensively researched, creative, and humane. I like to help people understand people, and I like to help people understand and access our governing structures. I'm passionate about telling stories that increase empathy and increase engagement in democracy. So let me tell you about the project that I would like your support on. My primary focus over the last three years has been on homelessness in Ojai, specifically the people of Ojai Tent Town. I watched as the population of our City Hall campus grew during 2023, and out of curiosity, because I'm here a lot, I began wandering around and interviewing campers. One thing that surprised me was how many fellow former Ojai Unified School District graduates and students that I met. And I wanted to understand how they ended up camping at our government center. So that's what kicked off this three-year writing and research project that I'm seeking your support to continue. In 2024, I was excited to report the news of Ojai's $12.7 million state grant to house the residents of Ojai Tent Town. I've since examined how national and regional trends have conspired to create California's housing crisis, analyzed relevant Supreme Court cases, and maintained a focus on how locals cope with the daily realities of living in a tent. So far, I've supported this effort with a small community of paid Substack subscribers and a collection of part-time jobs. I'm asking Ojai's Art Commission for support to continue, expand, photograph, and podcast this work and to compensate my local creative collaborators. Ojai's, as you may know, Ojai's 30-unit permanent supportive housing project is currently scheduled to open in July 2027. though I am not personally convinced that that deadline will stick, and I am dedicated to telling the story until the residents of Ojai Tent Town are housed. So in conclusion, I am hopeful that I can earn support for what I see as a uniquely Ojai creative project, one that is intended to inspire empathy and engagement. I'll confirm that I am engaged with a local nonprofit regarding fiscal receivership, And again, all of my work lives on ohilocalhero.com, which is a reference to the old bookstore for folks who've been around for a long time. Thank you for your consideration and for all the work. I'm happy to answer any questions.

I have a question. Thank you. Very interesting. And certainly the housing crisis is one of our most important crises to resolve. I'm trying to get the arts angle here. Are you looking to write a book?

I could. I think so. The artful angle is I think you need to read the work because it's long form creative writing. And I do see it as an art project as much as I see it as a journalism project. I'll just give you an example. Like, for example, in this reporting work, I've interviewed a lot of our Ohio Tent Town residents. I've engaged a local photographer who has volunteered her time to photograph these folks. Um, and, um, I, I think of, I think of that as a creative, a creative endeavor, the interviewing and the documentation. And, um, I'll also, so I also write my stories. I describe my stories as kind of inspired by the content that you'd read on in the New York times magazine or in the Atlantic. Um, something that not only is engaging, but kind of, uh, is creative that pulls you into. the narrative that helps you learn along with the writer so an example that i like is um in order to learn more about homelessness in ohio for the past three years i volunteered as part of the point in time count which is basically you count all the homeless people in the country like every community does this around the country and so for the past three years i have participated in that usually done like a ride along with local law enforcement to see like to find people, to meet people, and then those stories filter into my journalism, of course, respecting everybody's confidentiality. And that's a creative endeavor to me. It's documenting the lives of people.

That makes sense to me, and certainly one prong of our mission is literary, although we don't emphasize it quite as much. And long-form journalism certainly falls within literary. I was just trying to get a sense of whether as this progresses, because a book seems squarely within our charge.

I've thought about that, and this work could be that. I've thought about this work as a book as like a window into the California housing crisis via Shangri-La. It's really, I think it's just an unbelievably interesting story that we have this community living here at our government center and the fact that we've received all of this money to house them and all of the ensuing political debate I think is very revealing and very interesting. The other creative component that I want to mention is my fiscal sponsor runs a nonprofit podcast studio. If I were able to receive funding, I would be paying to utilize a podcast studio and also turning what is going to be four years of reporting into an audio story as well. And that's, I think of that as a way to just kind of make the work more accessible and more digestible.

Thank you, Andrew. Oh, I'm sorry.

Just quickly, I don't know how many of you have read her substack. It's fascinating, and I highly recommend reading it. It's individual journalism, and it's really interesting because it takes our small town to a higher level in terms of what's going on. So I highly recommend it.

Thank you, Brad.

Cool. Thank you.

All right, I also, I just wanted to say sort of to Commissioner Snyder's point. When I was living in Western Mass, Smith College was just starting a department within their writing group that was called Creative Nonfiction. And it was really interesting because Creative Nonfiction is sort of a juxtaposition and sort of a paradox. But there's a whole sort of litany and I would say framework around creative nonfiction. So I think this is where that sits.

Definitely. Thanks, Leslie.

Very cool. Thank you.

I'm going to leave a little bit of information with Bridget if that's cool.

Just leave it with Bridget here is the appropriate way. I think I'd love to... I can't stop but think of alternative facts. Pamela Grau, welcome home.

Hi, everyone. It's interesting being on that side for a change. Let me catch my breath here. So I'm going to read this because I timed myself and I thought I had less time. Anyhow, thank you for the opportunity to present this. I'm presenting a new program that I've created called Art Through the Ages. And it was stimulated by my role as art commissioner creating enrichment programs at the museum. And I will begin to read. I've spent most of my life making art, studying art, teaching art, and being part of creative communities. One thing I've come to believe very strongly is that understanding art changes the way we see the world. Unfortunately, art history, art education have gradually disappeared from our educational settings. I created Art Through the Ages as a way to bring some of that experience back into our community in a way that's accessible, engaging, and fun. Art Through the Ages is a 12-month art literacy program that combines monthly art history lectures related with hands-on workshops. Each month we'll explore a different period, movement, idea in art history. Each month, the lecture provides a story, context, and the workshop gives participants an opportunity to experience some of those ideas with their own hands. For example, the lectures would be at the Ojai Valley Museum. The workshops would be in my studio at Chaparral School. And I have a thing in my throat, so it's a little hard to talk. I'm sorry about that. For example, we might begin with cave painting and early human expression. We will look at why humans began making images thousands of years ago and what those images tell us about ourselves. The accompanying workshop would be mark making, natural pigments, texture, and primitive surfaces. So there would be a lecture, and then it would be followed by an experiential workshop. As the year progressed, we'll travel through other important periods and movements from ancient Egypt and the Renaissance to Impressionism and the development of modern art. The lectures will be presented at the Ojai Valley Museum, making them accessible to a broader community and they'd be free. The smaller hands-on workshops will take place in my classroom at Chaparral. The heart of this project is simple. Learn about art, then experience it by making something. I believe art history is really human history. It tells us what people valued, feared, celebrated, questioned, and dreamed about. And when we combine learning with making, those ideas become more immediate and memorable. My hope is that art through the ages will reach people who already love art, but also people who have never taken an art history class or consider themselves artists. No previous art experience will be necessary, and curiosity will be enough. This grant will allow us to bring knowledgeable speakers, materials, and meaningful hands-on experiences to the Ojai community and create a program that can grow beyond its first year. For me, this project is ultimately about connection, connecting history to the present, knowledge to creativity, and people in our community to the remarkable human story that's told through art. Thank you for considering this. Any questions?

Thank you, Pam, and thank you again for all your contributions to the art community here in Ojai. I might have missed it, but what is the age range for these classes?

So the lecture series at the Ojai Valley Museum will probably be for adults. because it will be scheduled once a month and it falls at a time when kids are just getting out of school like 3.30 to 4.30 it's going to be on a day when the museum's closed and they're very excited about having an outside project come in it's something that they don't have to pay for and somebody else is doing the work and it falls in there what they're hoping the museum will be about. Nice. And then the workshops will be smaller. And depending on if I get a grant or no grant, whether that'll be a fee to take a workshop or not, I'm hoping to keep the price very low. Yeah. because there's gonna be materials and things like that Would the speakers at the cellar They would be paid I mean that's what the grants for is to create a budget for speakers and for teachers and and yeah it's I'm excited and the Ojai studio artists are gonna be my fiscal receivership is that how you say it and a lot of the artists there are getting pretty excited about the idea of it

David are you ready

Pretty impressive group here of artists. As an Ojai citizen, I think they all sound great, so just for what it's worth. I'm here for the Ojai Film Society.

Wait, wait, who are you?

Oh, my name's David Bell, and I'm a board member of the Ojai Film Society. Thank you. So we'd like to first of all say thank you to the Arts Commission for your your continued support You've consistently been a supporter of ours and a champion of ours We program films in the Libby Bowl the film series in the Libby Bowl there's an we have an 11 member all volunteer board and The Ojai Film Society was founded in 1988 to bring independent foreign documentary and classic films to the Ojai Valley. It's kind of an older organization. We've got support from the city of Ojai. In 2022, we sort of revamped the Ojai Film Society and launched our summer film series. And since then, it's become the largest free event in the Ojai Valley with six screenings each summer outdoors in the community at the Libby Bowl and all free to the public. So our goal is to continue to share high quality cinema that is accessible to everybody. We hold six bi-weekly screenings at the Libby Bowl and we usually get anywhere from 300 to 700 people to come to the screenings. They're organized entirely by our volunteer board. subcommittees in collaboration with the city local partners sponsors were publicized through social media the ohio valley news street banners signs that we staple to every you know staple and tape to every window in Ojai, and so it's kind of a lot of work to sort of get the word out. We'd like to thank the City of Ojai and the Arts Commission. This is our fifth season this summer. This summer we had 2,700 attendees across our seven screenings. including we had a fundraiser at the Ojai Rancho Inn. It's been very successful. We also conducted a survey. We found that 70% of our attendees live in Ojai, 69% of them had attended a Film Society movie before, and apparently 100% of them think that it's a benefit to the community, which is not surprising. The 2026 series this night, generally we try to have a theme. We had like Shoot for the Stars. I can't remember what it was last year. This year it was a theme called Wild is the Night, which I'm just going to read this. It reminded us that when we bravely step beyond the familiar, we open ourselves to wonder, possibility, and the kind of magic that only happens after dark. Part of it is, and to sort of go off script a little bit, one of the best things I think about the Ojai Film Society is that it's kind of, it's a committee, right? And so a lot of it, you have an idea for a theme or I have an idea for a theme. I'd love to be able to just show movies that I love in the Libby Bowl. But the fact that it's this community... community structure of sort of not only picking the themes but the movies. I've actually pitched several movies. There's a few movies I've tried every year to see if I can't get them on there. And I think it's that sort of the idea that it's not this sort of just one person's vision of what it is. It's a community vision. This May we had our fundraiser at the Rancho. We had director Sara Dosa showed her movie Time and Water, which was a documentary about the melting of the glaciers in Iceland. Sort of narrated by this poet. It was just a beautiful, beautiful movie. Sort of creating a time capsule based upon the melting of the glaciers as compared to the life of his family. It was really beautiful. At Libby Bowl, we did six movies. We started off with Hunt for the Wilderpeople, which was a movie I was surprised that a lot of people had not seen before. It's a terrific movie about a rebellious, misfit youth and his grumpy foster uncle. They go off into the New Zealand wilderness. Our next movie was Selena y los Dinos, which was... Director Isabel Castro. I couldn't make that one, but I think she may have been there. But it was a documentary about Selena. Can I get another minute just to get through to the end of it? Sorry. One of the best ones we showed this year was a documentary called Cookie Queens. which I believe debuted at Sundance. We had the director there. It was about Girl Scout cookies and the $800 million empire that they're a part of. We had the director. We had some of the Girl Scouts that were in the movie. We had the local Girl Scout troop come. We showed Best in Show, which was our biggest hit. And then we did a movie called Arrival, which was one I did pitch about communicating with aliens. And finally, Jurassic Park. So, again, I've got a lot more to go here, but we'd like to thank you for your support. It's been, you know, really instrumental. The money goes to the screenings. You know, you have to license the films. We have the equipment, the big screen comes. But we also, we have an artist spotlight. So, where we spotlight a particular local artist And the money is going sort of directly to the local artists through that program. So sorry I went over a little bit. Does anybody have any questions or?

You know us well and you've probably heard us say time and again that very quickly the film society has become the centerpiece of Ojai's summer. So thank you for that, but indeed we know the good work you do.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it's great. And I say, I mean, I'm always a bit surprised at just how fantastic every showing is. I really think the Libby Bowl is one of the greatest places to see a movie. I mean, it's like the Chinese theater or something. It really is amazing. You know what I mean? It's just a fantastic venue for that.

And you're able to get your dates done.

Well I mean you know that's a that's a thing you know it's a it's a it's it's a bit there's a bit of a push and pull you know I mean it's a public venue but we're we're engaged in a discussion I mean we got our dates this year I mean they weren't they weren't the ideal dates that you know they weren't you know our first choice but I you know I mean we could help again we tried to last year and be a liaison on that I'd really like to see those dates on the weekend yeah i mean friday's i think a better date for us kids and for the community because uh it's summer and it gets late yeah right and and as smitty said we we helped last year and we're here again and i'm sure the city council would agree as well well we really appreciate all all your help and we're we're working on it ourselves and we're committed to doing it and to making it happen so thank you very much anything else thank you so much

And our final presentation is from Paula Power with Miners Oaks Park. I'm so glad you're here, Paula. Oh, you have a.

Okay, here we go.

um thank you for the opportunity to come and talk about the miners oaks park so my name is paula power and i'm the president of miners oaks parks we're a 501c3 non-profit we formed in 2022 and We're working directly with the county to create a community park in Miners Oaks at the old car wash. So we're converting abandoned commercial property into a vibrant park that everyone can enjoy. So here's a map. of the property. This is El Roblar here, and this is Highway 33. And it's a nature-focused park, walking path, lots of native trees, native plants. There's an area for children to play ages 1 to 5. There's a lot of features around the park for older children to explore and play on. So one, there's a parking lot. There's going to be the first and only bathroom and drinking fountain in Miners Oak. So we're really proud about doing that. It's really a pain in the neck, but it's going to be worth it.

And that's paid for.

Yes.

Well, I mean, I'm saluting you because I know you got a grant for that.

So one of, you know, this was this big idea that I had in 2021. I'm a retired Park Service biologist with the National Park Service, and I'm an Ojai native, and my parents were artists in Ojai. And so for me, how could I possibly do a park without art? So a couple of years ago, I saw a notice a call for proposals from the California State Parks for planning art in a park. So I applied for that grant and I got it. And so we did a sculpture competition and we advertised as broadly as we knew how to advertise. And we had over 20, I think it was 24, submissions and we had a jury of four people. One was a woman who's now a curator of art and she went to Oak Grove. Um, another is an artist in Ventura and, uh, another was, um, his name is Noel Courtney and he, uh, is in the art world in L.A., but his son lived in Miners Oaks and his son worked for the Forest Service, so he has his connection to Ojai. And then I was the fourth one as a community member representing, you know, what the non-artists think is nice. So that was interesting. Anyway, we made our final selection, and it is a piece.

It's this, and I'm going to

Just take this off the board and pass it around. And then I'll explain to you what it is. What I'm going to do is read the artist's description of what it is, so I don't have to make this up. So it's called Hive Mind, and it's a honeycomb-shaped sonic structure designed to magnify the sounds of plants, humans, animals, and insects. It'll be interactive and encourage park goers to tune into the natural beauty of Miners Oaks Park. through a heightened sense of sound and bodily awareness. So I could go on and on. And I think if you would like, I can just give you her description. But it's just really cool, we thought, very elegant design. And you can move it around. So if you want to listen. kids over there you want to listen to the birds or the chirp bells you can move this around so um this project is about a 1.5 million dollar project we have raised over a million dollars for it and um the art in california parks had a second call for implementing projects and by a miracle we got that also but they had to like cut back what we asked for in order to fund more projects so we originally asked for a hundred and $39,000 and they gave us 110 so we're $29,000 short and that's why I'm here is asking for money for support for the sculpture so since I have I think I have somewhere two seconds I grant you at least two seconds go ahead If you want to see more later, I can talk about the mural. I didn't know that there was this whole thing about murals The city of Ojai I'm kind of like in my own little world over there in Miners Oaks and so our board selected an amazing studio that the artists live in Miners Oaks and they're working with a school district who they do the design it's kind of a paint-by-number thing Not to interrupt you but she spoke with us a couple of meetings ago I know your time is tight so we're not going to

If I understood correctly you have received two grants is that correct?

That's correct we got the planning grant and now we have the implementation grant so they like this enough that they said boom you've got it but not everything we asked for

And you're 501c3. You're separately raising funds. Is that correct?

We are. We have money from the state of California from completely separate. We have money from foundations, grants, and private donations. Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you. It's very exciting.

If I may say one more thing, I am new to the Arts Council, but I'm not new to Ojai art because my parents were members of an organization called the Ojai 20. And I don't know if any of you remember that, but they were a group of 20 artists in the East End back in the 60s. So they were like a precursor to the Ojai studio artists, which my parents were members of too. Wow.

So I'm new to you guys, but I'm not new to Ojai. Legacy Ojai.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Chair, did you want to take a break after this or do you want to keep going?

I have no need for a break. Okay, just checking. But I did, so we can like greet them or something, yes. But I'll just make some closing comments and then we'll take a break. How's that sound? So that we can greet them. So let me make my closing comments. What are they? I did want to say you guys are welcome to stay but it's just sausage making regular government but thank you so much for bringing this joy to our monthly meeting and it's so cool when I think about you know because it's at the end of the day it's council's money or council is your money and council is your elected representatives that decide how it's how it's spent but it's so beautiful to see it just come right back and then and then see you know it's you know you can fill a pothole and we should fill our pothole but i think we should see uh doing your projects just as important as filling a pothole and even if they're 200 yards outside the city limit for example on miners oaks park uh we have We have gotten exceptions for our commission and for our grants to be able to award anywhere in the valley. And because we recognize that art doesn't know those boundaries, so thank you very much. So we'll take a short break and say goodbye to you.

I'm going to set a timer for ten minutes. Ten minutes? I'd turn out all the, five minutes? Five minutes? What do you think?

In closing, I just want to thank everybody for coming. Five minutes. If it were up to me and it was a single vote, I would fund everybody for everything. It was amazing. It was really, really just to hear. Thank you so much. I feel almost artistic. So thank you. uh meeting thank you thank you and we'll be in touch

Can you just switch further and different things? Can you just switch further and different things?

Okay I think we're ready Let's get started again here consent calendar has one item just the minutes I have reviewed them I think we're live okay thank you any any any questions or ideas on the minutes from anybody I make a motion we accept the minutes and thank you secretary for submitting do I have a second

All in favor?

Thank you all right ad hoc committee been looking forward to this Commissioner Wright Bradley second sorry taking the minutes

Hello where is this should I just jump into this or do you want me to summarize the administrative report the city asked that we go over the ad hoc committee composition and confirm its role the timeline and scoring of the rubric So I would first like to introduce my ad hoc committee for the 2027 Arts Grant Cycle. And I think this is news to everybody, right? You guys? No, no. So it is my pleasure to introduce the four wonderful members of our community who have agreed to serve along with myself on the ad hoc committee for the 2027 arts grant cycle. First, we have Elizabeth Herring, who served on last year's ad hoc committee. She is an Ojai-based artist working in photography, sculpture, and installation. Her practice explores the intersection of historical narrative, material, and American consumer culture, often through unexpected and humorous combinations of found objects, images, and characters. Her work has been exhibited nationally as well as in Berlin, and her photography has appeared in publications including the Editorial Magazine, Sleek Magazine, Esquire, and Vice. Elizabeth's artistic practice has also led her to community building, curating, and organizing. From 2023 to 2025, she co-operated Spore Space, a small project space for emerging artists in Ojai. And in 2022, she co-curated and produced a public exhibition at the Ojai Historic Jail, which was partially funded by an Ojai City Arts Grant, you might recall. Earlier in her career, she also organized and curated artist events and exhibitions in New York City and Berlin. A lifelong Ojai resident, Elizabeth holds an MFA from the California Institute of the Arts, a BA from New York University Gallatin, and a certificate from the International Center of Photography. She brings to the committee She brings the committee an artist perspective as well as experience in creating opportunities for other artists in the community. I am also especially thankful for the institutional knowledge she gained last year that will further help facilitate the overall grant process. The second member, Joel Mahari. Joel Mahari is a creative director, writer, designer, and photographer whose work encompasses websites, brand identities, advertising, and film. Over the course of his career, he has worked with companies from Ojai to London, and has received recognition from numerous organizations, including the One Club, Print, Communication Arts, the Hatch Awards, and the Addies. Joel grew up surrounded by artists and went to build a career working with large firms in Boston, San Francisco, and New York. Since moving to California in 2002, he has established a creative consultancy serving brands and fields including health and wellness, sustainable energy, music, active lifestyle, food and hospitality, and consumer technology. He has collaborated with hundreds of artists, photographers, writers, filmmakers, and musicians, which has taught him how to evaluate creative work with sensitivity and clearly articulate the reasoning behind his aesthetic judgments. For the past 10 years, Joel has lived in Ojai, and serving on the committee is personally meaningful to him. Ojai's creative community is evolving, building upon a long legacy of artistic exploration and excellence. The Ojai Playhouse, the rejuvenated music program at Libby Bowl, a resurgent Ojai Underground, the Ojai Music Festival, and many others are contributing to something significant. A vision of Ojai as an arts gem, a place where taste, sensitivity, and creative integrity count. A place not too small, just big enough, comparable of building a creative infrastructure, capable of building a creative infrastructure that can sustain a vital arts economy for decades being part of the committee and the selection process gives joel a chance to participate in and contribute to our city's evolution our third member kathleen schaefer Kathleen Schaefer is an Ojai-based author, leadership educator, and civic strategist whose work focuses on helping individuals and communities recognize their strengths, deepen connection, and create meaningful change. She is the founder of the Human Being Store and the Center for Understanding, where she brings together leaders across sectors to explore new approaches to leadership, community well-being, and systems change. For nearly four decades, Kathleen has designed and facilitated leadership programs for public, nonprofit, philanthropic, and community organizations in the United States and internationally. She has also been deeply involved in Ojai's civic and cultural life, including serving as president of the Ojai Film Society during its transition to the free community-based summer film series at Libby Bull that we have all come to love. Through her many years in the Ojai Valley, Kathleen has developed an expansive perspective on the vital role that artists and creativity play in shaping a vibrant, connected community. She brings to the committee extensive experience working across sectors, a longstanding connection to Ojai's cultural life, and a particular interest in how the arts contribute to the public's benefit and well-being. Last but not least is Betsy Watson. Betsy Watson has lived in the Ojai Valley since 1996 and has been an enthusiastic supporter of Ojai's artistic community ever since. She regularly attends local exhibitions, tours, and openings, takes classes from our local masters. and she has a collection of works by Ojai artists in her home. Betsy brings substantial experience in community service and grant making to the committee. As a longtime member and past resident of the Rotary Club of Ojai, she has served for many years on its Community Grants Committee. She has also served on the Grants Committee of the Ojai Women's Fund. Her community involvement extends beyond the arts. Betsy has advocated for Ojai senior citizens, first as a volunteer and later as administrator of the Gables of Ojai. As an avid cyclist, she is a long time advocate for active transportation and its community, health, and environmental benefits. She is also a past commissioner with the County of Ventura Area Housing Authority. Betsy is honored to serve on the Arts Grants Committee and brings a strong belief in the value of Ojai's artistic reputation and the importance of nurturing and protecting its creative community. She looks forward to applying her experience and discernment to the thoughtful and fair allocation of the limited grant funds. Together, these committee members bring the unique combination of passion for the arts and professional expertise across a wide range of disciplines. Their collective perspective will bring rigor, thoughtfulness, and care to the grant review process, ensuring that each application receives the attention and consideration it deserves. I am confident that their leadership will help foster a process that is both equitable and efficient while supporting the City of Ojai's commitment to a vibrant and thriving arts community. On behalf of the entire Arts Commission, I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to all the ad hoc committee members for generously giving their time and expertise to this important work. I look forward to collaborating with you as we move through this process.

Any questions, Commissioner?

Okay, let's put some structure around this. Are we going to have just vote on ad hoc committee members today or was it part of other, I saw there's other things in the report. Do you want to, like we've already approved the rubric, right? It's just attached for our interest and the timeline.

Yeah, she revised it a little bit, right?

So why don't we make a motion? I'll make a motion to accept them, and then maybe we'll have a discussion.

And I second that motion.

Okay, discussion now. I think a good way to do this.

Okay, so I guess I'm going to piggyback on what Brad asked. He asked, where did you get these impressive people? And I just want to compliment you because you brought together last year Quite an impressive ad hoc committee, and you have done the same this year. There's diversity and intelligence and knowledge and experience, and brava to you. Thank you. Good luck. And I must say, I know how time-consuming it is to pull together so many people with difficult schedules, so good job. Thank you.

I can tell you it was not easy it's one of the more stressful parts of the grant process for me a lot of people are extremely busy don't have time to volunteer the amount of hours it takes to thoroughly go through these grants so you know I started with my list of people that, you know, I have a running list, basically, of people who tell, oh, Karina, next year you should think about, or, you know. And I, as you know, I always ask my commissioners for recommendations, and I thank you all for your input. It's invaluable. And I have to say, this seems like each year just keeps getting better, so I'm super happy about that.

I would like to add my sort of appreciation, but also not just for the work you've done, but what you're leaving behind. I know this is the last year you want to do this, but what you left behind is this format that fits into the city's calendar it's it's three layers of approval for spending cities fund you know and I wanted to commend liaison rule as well for helping us put this in the format that that is fully agendized and transparent. And I think it's one of the best selection processes I've seen for spending government money, people's money that I've ever experienced. I see a lot of ones where there's a lot of talk and paperwork, but at the end they're really just throwing something together and doing everything they legally need to. But this seems like a great way, and just the results of what we had last year, the way it was spread across the arts, the way it was spread across evolution in an art organization's lifetime. really made impact and you know during the and when it's followed up with good strong communications afterwards we've been advertising to the public now when these events that they do or these projects that they do are taking place I think it can continue to give people a better hope that government and the arts can work together so I want to thank everyone at this table you know for your part in doing that

Another aspect of this discussion item is to confirm the timeline and the scoring rubric so I thought they were solid already So let's we're confirming so do you want to first

vote on the ad hoc committee yeah let's do that should we uh how do you want to do it well there's a motion it's seconded yes there's been discussion any more questions all in favor aye all opposed is that good enough thank you unanimous No, I think we voted on the rubric last time, right?

We voted on the rubric, but as we did last year, We would like to keep bringing to the public's attention the uses of the rubric and how it interfaces with the grant decision process. And it's included on this administrative report. The rubric, I just wanted to bring it back. We made a change last time with that. And you can look at the example. I just wanted to bring it back and make sure that my commissioners note that I got that right after that robust discussion. It's the asterisk, right? And if there's any other questions about that, that is the flexible extra credit, the quote plus factor for new applicants, and that flexible extra credit at the discretion of ad hoc committee.

I move that we adopt to the rubric with amendation You vote or you make a motion? I'm making a motion. Can I second it? Then we can discuss it? Because we can't discuss it yet.

I just feel like this is how we did it I thought but Well it's the amendment I don't think it's been amended. I thought we did this last time.

That we discussed it. You guys discussed the flexible credit last time and decided to go with the plus factor rather than her, how many years, one, two, and three. Is this different? A little bit, yes.

Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah. All right, discussion.

I would just say you know I was taking the notes during the meeting and does this read the way that we originally wanted it to be perceived I think it provides flexibility which is what we were looking for and also teases out the problematic issue that we were seeking to address

Okay, great.

If no further ado.

All in favor? Aye. Aye. Good.

Was there a second to that? I'm sorry. Yes. Smitty. You do. And then.

Because we have so many layers of this, this is, you know, approval, unapproval. I know, I know. But I like that.

I like that.

Because it's not, we don't award the grants based on your rubric score.

No, and exactly.

You just bring it to us, organize it.

The rubric is a piece, a guidance. Obviously the grants are not solely decided on your rubric score. And the other piece of this is to confirm the process that the Ad Hoc Committee uses to its process in reviewing these grants. we have the calendar attached there to remind us that of our expected deadlines of presenting the information back to the Arts Commission we have the deadline there of November 19th as the vote amongst us and as I've said before the ad hoc committee reviews the grants on their own and then we come together and discuss them and then we present the materials to you for you to review and then we vote on that day so it's the same process as last year and the year before

Basically according to the administrative report if we approve it we just do nothing So I propose we just do nothing

I'm going to propose something before you go on. I wonder with this, and I'll ask Liaison Bridges as well, would this be useful, I just come from a franchise business background, to set these calendars such that um we have somewhere like the last friday in august or something or the first or the last the third thursday is basically the third third third thursday of the month right but what i mean for the uh calendar items so that in future councils all you have to do is look at the calendar that year because you're changing the date every year and uh you know i don't want to accidentally get something on a saturday like so this is set up so that It's open the whole month of September, right? So it closes here on the 30th because I think it's a Thursday this year, is that right? But I'm trying to save future commissions the math. You know what I mean, yeah.

It's not a lot of math and it's an internal document on the website has specific dates For the most part these dates are commissioned meetings or a council meeting so that doesn't change Thursday or Tuesday I believe that we have laid out this process now in extreme detail this is the third year and I think that we should not have to keep laying out this process in extreme detail any longer

I feel like I'm gonna squeeze every bit out of you before you're gone. That's what I'm trying to do.

I think the process has been proven. We started this because we were doing something new and we want the public to know how we're going.

Did we extend last year or did we do it in 30 days?

We did it in 30 days I mean that's not entirely true that we were doing something new I think the reality is that we did something wrong in an earlier commission and so we were super attentive to fix it and under your guidance we did fix it like the transparency I like the detail and I think you know we could maybe shorten people's bios which are very impressive and interesting to me but but I do think we want this level of transparency because we certainly don't want any future Commission to make the mistake that past Commission made and we want to be transparent to the public I mean, you could write it down and we could just like look at a procedure. I mean, that's another way we could do it, but I vote for the full transparency or I urge the full transparency.

That's fine. Maybe it's one vote starting in July where we just this is grant season and this is what's going to be happening September meeting and the ad hoc is announced It could almost happen without a discussion I don't see or if you get your ad hoc committee together before then good for you but I think that there's a lot of other pieces to the grant cycle that we can be spending more time on and like the end of last grant cycle I will have the report for you at the end of this grant cycle in ways in which we can improve the grant cycle I want when

when liaison rule goes and asks for $200,000 next time. I don't want anyone on council to be able to say, well, how were the reports at the end of the year showing how it was spent? I want to have that answer. And by whom? That's right there and my home too. So I'm preparing future commissions and council from not being able to say no. So you're in the thick of it and I want to make sure that it's not about us and that it can continue into the future. That future councils will see the benefit of this investment in the community. And it should at least grow it according to the size of the budget or the size of the population or if it's really going to serve the creative economy.

200, I'm going for 250. Do I hear three?

There we go. I know.

But because that's one where I still feel like it's not entirely transparent is at the end of the year, I don't even like these one year cycles, but we're kind of stuck with it in government. But at the end of the grant cycle that there's an audit so that we can say yes, this money was spent as it was supposed to. That's something we've never done well other than just ask people to kind of report back. So that's where I still think I would like for no one to ever be able to question that.

Well those all of those grant summaries are received and logged and I assume completely accessible for everybody to look at we probably could even do a summary report on that if that would be helpful to the Right or have some sort of even you know if we had staff here that like the arts staff

you know part of their yearly things to do is well make sure how much did you spend you know and what was it for you know they spent it all that is for sure

So that is all I have on grants. Look forward to everybody getting their applications in by the 30th.

The only change we made on this is the date for the press release, so I don't know that you need to vote on it. No, I think not.

For this year.

Yeah. Is there enough information that Is there enough information that it's worthwhile to create a manual for applicants just when someone says I want to become part of the process that sort of lays out to them the timeline, what to expect, and how to go about doing it?

I think the directions are very comprehensive I would like people to follow the meetings of the Arts Commission then they would be up to date on what the process is and read instructions. Bridget and I are fielding emails and questions this entire grant cycle. One thing we've discussed here is having a grant workshop. And I don't know if that would be attended or useful. Get everybody to ask their questions at one time. They're also always... invited to come to public comment, so.

Sure, you know, most of the grant, I've been applying for grants and very often they'll have a webinar or two, you know. I know Simi Valley does that too. Just like a Zoom meeting that you can invite everyone to. I don't think we need to have a motion on that.

Our application is very straightforward and we're not, like some organizations we're not asking the applicant for a horse and pony show we just want them we don't want them to you know put in ten thousand dollars worth of time for their two thousand dollar grant so i think it's very streamlined we tuned it up this year and we'll tune it up again next year

We at least should have at the top of the website the link there for info and application for ARG grants. I just scrolled down to find it, but there is one link and the document has both the application and the instructions on it.

I think what you've done is absolutely amazing. Totally amazing. The people who you've gotten to serve on this are stellar. I'm very impressed.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm very, very happy.

Well I've been beaten the communication side on the social media I know you guys don't go there and so I'm fielding a lot people are just coming to me and saying well I mean I don't you know if someone comes and says can I just apply for myself I'm an artist I mean that's just a really but my point is I like that I mean we want them we want to encourage that we want to say Yes, and everything's on this link. And I mean, I'm not going to try to fault them for not have been following me or us in the past, because we're doing a great job. Fantastic, thank you for institutionalizing it and for your blood, sweat, and tears. And looking forward to what pops up. You guys only have 13 more days, I think, right?

Who's leading this one are you Bridget City Council meeting or is that my discussion item

it's mine all right well i've prepared a very detailed administrative report as you can see at the end here uh we're gonna do uh the october 13th it doesn't need to be voted on or anything it just can be a discussion just so you know it doesn't need to be voted on it can just be a discussion yeah yeah okay so October 13th now is that a regular Tuesday and it's before is it yes that's their regular meeting but it's at what time y'all's will be at 5 I believe for one hour yeah

Point of order Mr. Chair before we review what we're going to discuss I'm unable to attend that meeting and I would like very much to attend it especially because we're only five people I As a beleaguered commission member I get exactly one vacation a year which happens to be in my October and I would like to recommend that we see if we can find a different date to hold this meeting

I'm not opposed to that this I this I believe is the mayor's call right this is a mayor call thing so I don't have a lot of I don't I don't know what might be worth just asking if you can maybe switch with a different Commission if you know talking to another Commission saying if they want to change their joint meeting with yours just like working it out it means worth a discussion yeah and including Weston in it Weston would be the other person to make sure you

I recognize that we serve... Is that my position?

Is that my... Because it's not my meeting, you know what I mean? So I don't know what the process would be to... Because we'd have to pull maybe...

If you would like, I can take this on and discuss it both with city staff and with the mayor and see how that would work the best way. I'm happy to do so. That would be really helpful. That would be great.

Happy to do so. Great. I guess one question I'm available all the time except during those two weeks Would you be available the next City Council meeting That's not ours to offer One of us might not be available either and we'll check if we could have a quorum too And I mean, you know, feel free to go ahead without me. I get that. I get that entirely. But I guess one thing that irks me a bit is why was it sort of summarily scheduled? Is that what always happens, Bridget, that they don't ask the commissions?

Well, it's never happened before. Last year, it was done differently. So it's hard to say how we usually do it. So last year was the first year.

Last year, it was scheduled.

It was. It was. And they came to us and asked for dates. That's how it happens.

That's my point. This was only known to us when we got the agenda. Yes, correct. So there was no chance of rearranging travel plans and such. Yeah. Anyway, we can work on that. Yeah.

Great, thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Lisa. Would it be worthwhile, however, to discuss some things that we would like to discuss at the joint meeting? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I have some notes from previous- I have things to say. yes please go I would definitely like to discuss the it's here the recommendation adjustments a grant price process criteria public engagements etc regarding the grant process specifically Dividing the grant into two grants, one for individuals and one for organizations. And deciding on maybe a percentage of the grant budget for each one of them, 75, 25. Because the individual artist against the organization is always going to fall short. They just don't have the same impact, criteria, etc. So I would love to see two separate grants.

I know you would but I think we may be going backwards here too because we serve counsel for ARC's recommendations and that would be that would that I would say that is our action we don't need them to do that Correct yeah this is just a report out to them so you they don't have to change any of your processes you you would change them here We choose our own processes.

Previously, I'll cue the videotape. We thought, understood that to make such a change to the grants that it should be approved by the city council.

That was my recommendation as well.

If we're going to rearrange the grants as they are into two separate

I don't want to get into discussion about that particular item but I think I remember there was discussion that this was sort of a best practices for small cities because of the legal requirements and we would almost have to go to staff and ask for a legal recommendation on what it would take to be able to for the city to be award grants to a individual because they were different than a 501c3 I don't know that it was go to council I thought it was go to actual to try to staff to try to get guidance on that I'm not talking about awarding grants directly to individuals I'm talking about separating out the

jury competition between, so all individuals are only judged against other individual applicants. And only non-profits and organizations are judged together. So that they're two separate, so that an individual artist is not in the same pool as the- I get that, but what do you want from council on that? I would like to know if we can drastically change the grant formation.

Well, I think we can decide that within ourselves here.

Okay. We're gonna need I just know we're gonna need some legal advice though well oh you're saying still keeping the same Exactly the same but we have and the application process can be exactly the same we just have to I would like to know and I think it is a City Council issue

I guess my question is why is it a city council issue Because they created the grants program No we created the grants program We brought this up numerous times and it's been kicked down the road

think if all you're doing is separating out the process I don't think it needs to go back to the council unless you really unless you feel like you would like to have that step of approval we could put it on a consent item and it could just pass by but it doesn't seem to me that just it seems to me within your purview okay But I'm talking like a lawyer. I have no idea. That's all I can say. But I can check with the attorney as well.

Well, I don't think we need the lawyer. My concern is do we have the authority to say, We're only going to give one grant to one individual artist for $2,500. That is going to be what is going to be awarded this year. And maybe there's going to be 15 individual artist applications. They're all vying for that one grant. Okay, so that's an example. Yes. And so we would be dividing the budget of the grant. So part of it would be only for individual artists and part of it would only be for arts organizations. So considering that we would be changing the budget in essence,

Right, so I think if you were to say we are going to give two grants or three grants to individuals regardless of how many applications we have and we're going to give the remainder to nonprofits or LLCs or whatever. I would say that if you were to stipulate in that way, that hardcore line of this many for this and this many for that, versus we're going to look at all of them I think if you're going to decide a certain number for one group and a certain number for the other group, like just not dollar amount but number of applicants that you will fund, it's a little bit trickier. I think if you were to look at everything, I think you could look at both groups and decide the merits of each and then decide which number without going in with a set number beforehand. that's what i would say i would say if you have a set number beforehand then maybe you should go before council but if you're just going to evaluate you know based on the applicants that you get with no set number because in this particular year five individuals came in that were just stunning Versus last year where there were only three, right? Are you understanding the distinction? So that's what I would say I would also say that if you wanted to do it You could just put you know a consent item like we did not give you any instructions on how the grant process was to go So you are not in any way veering from anything that you were you know

Even though for the third year in a row, I'm getting direction from the city on how to run the grants.

Oh, I did not know you were getting direction from the city.

Well, I mean, isn't that what these administrative reports are? No.

No.

No.

Those are prepared by us or staff, yeah.

it's just a report to show the public what this item is about okay and that's actually what i was going to say karina i mean certainly we would address these issues and we would tease them out as we go forward and i think if if you as the chair and we as the commission in good faith and transparently make determinations about how to proceed with that advance information, then I think you're perfectly squared away. I mean, you're right that individuals are disadvantaged because they're judged against groups that are funded and that have experience, and it's sort of difficult for those applications to sort of rise to the top of of the pile and maybe they should be treated differently but I think that's your that's your call as the chair to convince us all that that's the way to go and I think what our council person is saying is it's it's your it's your call Commission

Yeah, it is your call. And I would just say, and I agree, it's just about transparency. It's just about making sure that the public has an opportunity to comment on anything that you're doing. That's what transparency is all about. That's why the 72-hour agenda item. Right. the public has a right to know what any of the Commission's are doing especially as it regards financial you know money but other than that that's what transparency is and that's all you're really required to do So maybe we just need to bring your issue up again as an agenda item here for this meeting I think we should have a special meeting tomorrow

You can call a special meeting with 24 hour notice but I would suggest that you try to give the 72 hour notice that is standard.

It's up to you. I'm just saying. If the ad hoc committee came back and wanted to give all the money to one artist, it would be within the purview for them to come do that. And they would bring that to commission, and then we would probably have something to say about it. And there are reasons that individual artists need permission. And we might do that.

Yes, we might do that. The reason I further brought it up was I feel like it's a philosophical question. And I thought maybe the city council might have thoughts about it.

No, we would leave it back to you. We would throw it back to you saying, you are our commission, please recommend, we don't need to. Okay, great. Yeah, I'm almost certain that would be the response. Right. We trust you, we like you, you do it.

Okay.

And I would actually bring in like when you brought this up I remember going to the county and asking them about it and getting pretty clear legal reasons why it was dangerous on individual grants both but

We'll save that for a meeting It's not legal advice that they're dangerous You explained it well the last time you spoke about it.

Let's let the record speak for itself I was eloquent wasn't I

It seems to me that when you're judging large format organizations against large format organizations and artists against artists, you can do that on your own without any sort of permission. And I think that we set up, it would be wise to set up criteria for individual artists that is different than criteria for larger organizations. I think that's quite legitimate. I think it's important that we carry a distinction between them for a whole variety of reasons. They may need less money. They may have a certain kind of art that we find interesting or not interesting. But I think it's really important to judge each of them on the value of what they present and whether or not it's worthy of a grant, regardless of whether they're an individual or an organization.

Very wise but we can't discuss that today so this is for another topic and it's not been agendized as a subject for today I would just like to add that I was on the ad hoc committee last year and I think the process worked very well in considering grants from nonprofits along with the individuals we had

very robust conversations about you know the various applicants but in the end I think we came to consensus and proper resolution What I'm going to discuss now and I have a little list of things that I want to hit the agenda when we have our joint meeting and I know there's stuff you guys have brought to me so the things that I'm going to make sure is on there the continuing talk about some staff responsibility that's directly an arch person so that when we have And when we have these responsibilities for pushing things through, that we have the ability to do it. That's why there's staff out there. They heard that before too, continuing to talk about uh uh carve outs for are we able to have music recorded music here at the meetings uh libby bowl it continues to be an issue that as um we feel like because it is in our in in our jurisdiction we're supposed to advise the council on all things pertaining to art in the community and that kind of happened without us and Now there's little things happening that I think that we can help with and should have been, but maybe in the future we can be brought into those discussions the way our one big venue that the city does own presents programming and how it impacts the community. We talked about the poster for Ojai Day is going to be an item that I have on there too. And there was one more, somehow the AI, we had a meeting with Kim Mang last week and I brought it up to her too. We who?

What do you mean we had a meeting with Kim?

I'm sorry, Carolyn and I about social media. we were talking about technology and everything and um uh what happened at the last council meeting was that there was an ai policy that was decided for the city and it just sort of i i tuned in because i thought it was gonna i thought to be a line out the door of people to have something to say about it and there wasn't any public comments on it at all and there was discussion it seemed like a cordial thing between uh council but then i came away with it with a Knowing that it was just decided that all employees and officials and even volunteers that work for the city can only use certain AI tools. And that just sort of happened.

That sounds like a good idea. That there be some policy? I mean, I think we should see it.

Sure, but there's no way to do it. I was sort of wondering the next day, I'm not allowed to use AI for doing anything, any city business. There isn't one in place for me, and I'm not allowed to use mine. I mean, it just sort of happened, so there's some. Okay, so those are the things I want to at least get on a list that we'll choose from at our meeting.

So, may I? Yes. So, Smitty, I think that's impressive, and your list dovetails with mine. But first, I've got a few questions, and that is, who prepared this thing? Where did this come from? Did you do this?

No, I think it's a spoiler plate that they all got to the way the meetings are going to be conducted.

The admin report? The admin report. Yeah, it's just a copy of what went from last year. I just took it from last year and changed it.

Okay, thank you for that. That makes sense, and it makes sense that you. There's nothing here that's going to- With no offense to anyone, especially since we don't know authorship, and let's assume there's no pride of authorship when it comes to these matters, we have nothing here but gobbledygook.

Right.

What does this mean? I have, in the margins, what does this mean, what does this mean? collaboration with community arts organizations and artists opportunities for partnerships with local cultural groups it's uh policy guidance uh upcoming initiatives when i when i write an admin report i send it off to the person who's involved they can change it anytime so no i understand again i'm saying i saw this no fault to no pride of authorship may i continue please So, and probably, you know, I saw it as well, maybe in advance, but I'm bringing it up now. I think if we're going to have a productive meeting, both for us and also for the city council, we need to talk about real stuff. And I think the real stuff is exactly what you're saying. We need to understand why we're not a part of Libby Bowl programming, because that is our charge under the statute. It's no one else's charge. Why is the Ojai Day poster not under our purview? That is our charge, not the recreation department's charge with respect to art. And most importantly, and what I have been saying every meeting for a year, we need to address the copyright policy. And I spoke about that to the city council some time ago last year. Nothing has changed. And it makes sense that the council didn't address it because it's a question that should be addressed by the lawyers. We, in the meantime, changed lawyers and the lawyers who put it together had clearly no understanding of copyright. It is a technological problem, and it has a technological solution, and the solution should be quite simple. And it is adversely affecting our community. So if I may, I would suggest that we take out all of this gobbledygook and we put in real things like copyright policy. That's what I'm doing. Libby Ball.

That's what I'm doing.

When I saw this I- This was only meant for brainstorming.

I know I understand but there's no branch in it is my point and again no no you know we could have it's just a guideline to a discussion Bridget sent it to me I actually told Bridget this is blah we can do whatever we want with it and she said yeah and that's what my list is here and I will give an update on the policy later I would like to just quickly note imagine if we could have had audio visuals tonight with these grant no i mean it's just a travesty it's offensive i'll give an update on that in my report later so speaking of reports if i may and then i'm not going to say another word until you call on me for a commission report i promise will you revise this and bring it back to us

and it will contain these prongs we discussed May I also suggest that we discuss with council lines of demarcation and authority what is our authority

independent from the board from the council that is can we do things without it going up to council and if not what has to go up to council what doesn't have to go up to council what is within our purview is libby park within our purview As you said, is Ojai Day within our purview? It may be within the purview of multiple commissions.

Can we see grants, for example? I think all of these questions, we need guidance from our parents.

I've done some work on some of these since our last meeting and because you guys told me to and I did and a lot of these things we can go to staff first and ask for some guidance on it and I did on several of these and I got you know even if I got a no go away I wanted to have that you know because that sets us up for you know well I don't get a no-go away I get a no-go to council is usually what I get and which I can do as a citizen as well you know so I and I have some of those and so I've been collecting those so that we can have a more productive meeting when we're in front of them too so that's why I had this list coming in here too so I'm really just listing other things that are on the list because I whether or not we discuss them with council I want that list to be in front of council to know that what we think is important Well, I remember...

It was good camaraderie.

Yeah, well, that's productive. That is. And I remember what I heard from them was, you know what, all the commissions say this. You know what I mean? And I felt both, wow, we have to do more to... make our own special case and or I also felt like wow we have comrades you know because in some ways commissioners last longer than anything else in government you know you know the councils roll over with the with the elections and staff you know how staff changes you know so so commissions in some ways are responsible for the kind of the what's it called historical

However, I agree with Karina that it didn't seem that anything concrete came out of it. For example- Let's change it. Let's change that. I made that suggestion that public works identify an individual who can sort of shadow our conservators. Everyone was thrilled that there was a concrete solution to actually job security, part of your creative economy issue. But there has been, a year later, absolutely no movement on one very simple, very concrete solution.

Well that's our job in a way so you know there's a legal way that what comes before council is what comes before council and this joint meeting with them does not bring things before council it just it was it was almost done as like a bunch of new council people and here's some commissions we don't know what you do last year but there's a better way of doing that and i and i think we should take full advantage of this to not turn it into a gripe session but to present them with here we are your experts, how do we interact with you on these what we consider important issues, and what issues do you have for us that we're your experts on, too? So, you know, it's not part of law. This is an opportunity to put a different color on it.

And actually, that's a good point, the coming back to us as well in terms of arts. It would be good to hear from the commission what they see.

I would suggest that we have four, perhaps five, solid issues that we want to discuss with council and that we present it. For instance, it could be Libby Bowl, could be one, manner in which grants are given too. pick out four just pick out four because if we have yeah we have one hour pick out two pick out three but Yeah, because otherwise it's going to be a discussion that's going to be just all over the map. There's going to be 10 people there, each of which has their idea.

The mayor runs this, and he's in charge of the meeting, and he'll do a good job, you know, keeping it. But we also have to realize if there's not been a report for discussion about a particular item, there's not going to be anything solved at that meeting, you know, because they have to have something.

well to to discuss and vote on uh it is a kind of a camaraderie thing as best i can tell and i think it's our best advantage and i'd love for you to come in yeah i mean the best way i see this working is that you come in with four or five things um that we that we discuss them and you know we just get basic ideas out then we call for an ad hoc committee members to come through with you know delving more deeply and coming up with a recommendation and or an agenda item for the council to move forward on the ad hoc gives that you know it's it's findings you know just findings whatever you know close enough to findings suggestions and then it becomes a agenda item if it needs to be an agenda item i think that's the way to go because nothing can be decided in an hour i mean you need an you need more time than that for each item and you need people to think deeply and to understand completely council members to be able to go back to council and say you know this is the recommendation and this is why it is and here's the discussion let's do 10 minutes and move on that's what i would suggest and i would be happy to make sure that that ad hoc committee suggestion finds form and a vote and i have i'm pretty sure that it would move forward and that would be my suggestion too from the city council i'll collect these i may have collected them now and then i may have a call with you to help prepare our best list Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

It'll be Andy's meeting.

Right, yeah, but it's your meeting too. I mean, it's supposed to be the chair and the mayor together. It's a joint meeting, but the mayor is the presiding officer in any meeting, so that's true. But we'll get the votes for an ad hoc, and then we can delve deeply, and we can take those four issues, and they can come back. And if we believe that we need to have a council vote on it, we have a council vote on it. You'll have two commissioners already. Move it through.

Mm-hmm. Nice.

I know when the city manager was here, he was giving us guidance in real time about things that we don't have to bring back. So maybe even in this joint meeting, they could say, no.

Yeah, make your decision on this. We don't need to. Yeah. I think that would be a really good use of the meeting time to find out what is within your purview and what the council believes should come back and should go through the ad hoc, perhaps.

yeah the city manager will be there the city attorney will be there these are the things we're gonna be working on in the next quarter making decisions on do any of this well if it's things we already know what we're doing and we don't need their help just doing them an overview and which of these and then they can let us know which of these they would want to play a hand in

Right, right. These things are up to us. And there's things we keep going back, and they're here and again and again. And so that's what I'm getting the list right now, guys. So this is your opportunity to give me the list, all right? And the process will happen.

And the first point on the list, I think, is whether it can be a date different from October 13. But if not, I get that entirely.

Yeah, I think Bridget's going to handle that. Well, she's your staff liaison and she has a really good approach. We just talked about it.

We know how good Bridget is. Yeah, I am not here tomorrow, it's my flex day, but Monday it will be my priority to send this off to the mayor, city manager. I will keep Chair Wesson, council member liaison, council member role copied in this so that everybody's in the same page and she'll be able to- No, no, no, and I'll back it up. All your fault.

And I'll back it up. I'll subtly back it up during meetings, so.

May I suggest that...

I think it's essential that the vice chair of the commission is present at this joint meeting.

Absolutely agree. And Bridget has a good strategy.

Can I suggest that, Smitty, that you circulate the four or five topics so that we may comment on them and say maybe one... Right.

Well, I'll make sure that everything... Right. Yes, I will. Good. But I also want to make sure that everything I named, at least, is on the list, even if it's not the top four, you know what I mean? So that the council kind of has an idea for what's going on. Because I don't want to give the impression we're trying to usurp power, but what's happening is with these issues where we can just see in the community where we're not involved, there's problems in there. You know, and people are running around and need something, and we're there to head these things off. And that's our job.

Following on what Brad said, will you also take the gobbledygook out of this? That's just trash. I remember I told... Okay.

I didn't want to spend an hour rewriting something over there.

Do you think it is a good idea to address the social media questions that we've had?

We'll have a report tonight on social media and we'll see. Did I have that on here? Yes.

Okay, great.

Social media, right there.

Vice Chair and Senator, when we get to this meeting, Totally different report, this will not go to that meeting, okay? It won't look like this, I promise.

That was just a placeholder for my list, I didn't want to write something. I understand, thank you for that. I wasn't allowed to use AI to write something.

You just need to change a couple of words. Yes. You just need to change a couple of words in the AI version.

But I'm not allowed to use the tool. I don't have access to the tool you have.

Oh, oh, oh. You're talking about, OK, you're talking about. None of the commissioners have access. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, got it. But you will.

Yeah. I do know that that's something they're discussing, making sure that you guys will be able to have in the future. So it's not. Sure. It's not. Well, I've already had some. I'm sorry.

I'm moving on to commission reports and that's going to be my first topic because I did after that AI policy flew through and I did contact the the manager and the manager was out of town, so James Hahn, the city manager, so the IT director popped in and then the manager came back and they pretty much decided it was, no, I'm confusing it, I'm sorry, with the social, no, with the, okay, let me go down my list here. It was the copyright thing. Yes. All right, it was a copyright thing that I had discussion with them too. And they did reach a point where they firmly described why it is where it is and why it is and said, no, if there's a problem with that, talk to council. And so I've reached that point in just this week, and so that's the plan, okay?

Good, can you update me on those meetings?

Yeah.

I don't think it has to happen now.

No, but I will, I will.

It's clearly a, it's really not a copyright problem. It's a technology problem that has to have a technology solution.

Yes, and yes there'll be an update on that i got so much to say i'm not going to say anything um and i've been trying to take some of these issues and see how far we can take them under the brown act and with limited you know involvement with a commissioner because it's coming back and i i do have some stuff so uh now on the um on the social media i'm going to let you report on the social media are you prepared where you that's not now but it'll come to you too so uh that's something else that's taken place uh uh the poster is not but it did come up with their discussion with kim bang and i think uh uh as well uh the bowl i've done nothing on communication i've been writing um a lot and talking about i wrote a little piece on commissions and what they are and what they do i wrote two pieces on the um on the uh uh grants process and you know there's 100 what would you do with 100 grand you know what i mean and try to get some excitement out there and and i i could tell that it is generating um calls and interest and people are here tonight as well that have not been here before I wrote a piece on AI and the arts. I didn't sign that as arts commission, but I know it's an issue that's front and center at the city right now as well. So that's what I've been doing on communication. Noosa should be talking to individually. I know she was on a vacation, but on the update of the strategic plan. And I don't think I had anything on technology. Oh, all of us went to the, not all of us, but everyone, I think, Four of us happened to be at the county's strategic plan public input meeting that was held at the Miner's Oaks Library last week. That was an interesting meeting for David Yoshitomi, and that he had four commissioners. It was five of us, by the way. Oh, and Bridget was there as well. Thank you, thank you. So that was mainly him listening to us I mean he came with a presentation but it turned into him listening to us and that was a beautiful thank you commissioners for showing up at that and giving the input into the county's slow moving but deliberate moving the the position itself of of cultural and arts manager at the county for this is the first year that supervisors are actually paying for it rather than that grant that they had the cover grant that they had too so i was pleased to do that I did have another meeting with David just as an update, a private meeting with him. And learned about, did I report to you guys on the, they're building a calendar now at the county, yeah, I think I told that, must have been from the previous. So that's my report. Vice Chair Steiner. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have nothing to report with regard to public art. There is no update. I want to thank Bridget for all her work on getting the documents together with the Public Art Fund. We're at least finding our way towards sunshine there. I do want to note that one of the members of our community who is also a former commissioner, Susan Stensmulin-Amond, was elected to the College of Fellows of the American Craft Council, which is quite a great honor. She is also currently in a group exhibition at the Corning Museum. And so I think when we see in our community these these honors and the stature of our artists in this little hamlet of Ojai when many other people getting these awards are in New York or other Los Angeles. I think it's really quite an honor and so I'd like us to congratulate Susan for this great achievement.

Thank you. Commissioner Wright?

we could do a resolution are we doing reports and comments no just reports at this point

disregard I that was a comment have you been doing anything Karina we have no idea you can conflate them you can see the previous hour for my Commission report and I do want to add that I'll wait till comments sorry nothing to report sir

Commissioner Tabak-Bank I have nothing to report As chair West indicated he and I

Well, a couple of months ago, and correct me if I'm wrong, Council Member Rule, but the City Council adopted a draft social media policy, correct? And Council Member Mang and Rachel and Lang are the council members who are assigned to

Communicate yeah, they're the ones who brought it forward.

Okay, they brought it forward And so I came across that in reading the minutes of the the median and I brought it to councilmember West attention because communications is a very important part of our strategic plan and Social media is integral to our our plan as well. So it's important for us to understand that The extent to which the city's social media vehicles are available to us. And in reading the draft plan, it appears that only a designee of the city manager is able to utilize the city's social media. And so we need, Chair West and I were exploring with, we met with Council Member Mang, we wanted to explain to her what our concerns were because if we're not able to utilize the social media, we need to have a designee who will do that for us, or we need to use our own social media. Do you want to add anything? No, please. So we're next going to meet with Council Member Rule at her convenience about this as a liaison to the commission. So we're in the process now of just exploring what our options are. And do you have anything to add, Bridget, because we've had a lot of discussions about what we can enter, events that we can enter on the calendar. We do have a Arts Commission website. So the question has been, what can we really do with that website? And so I'm exploring with Bridget if we can enter events. Smitty and Nigel, a previous chair of the commission, had done videos of walking tours in Ohio that, in my opinion, should be posted. And there's other information that could be posted as well with the city's authorization. So that's kind of where we are now.

Thank you for your work with that and for your involvement in both the county people and our own council members as well it's hard to get meetings with those people The city and the parks department are the only ones who have it right so there's no commissions no other departments but we use our Tripepe Smith for posting on there I think the parks takes care of their own so maybe your suggestion should be like we maybe a commissioner can take that responsibility to update things on the social media and on the Facebook instead of going through our you know things our program that we have taking it away from there and giving it

Well, at the end of the day, no one goes there because there's nothing good there and it's terrible. Hasn't been updated since the 21st. I don't send anyone there because it's terrible. It flies in the face of our communication strategy for sure to not have clarity on that. So thank you for your work on that.

Is that all you've got for us, Carolyn?

Only to say that many of us here have been meeting with David from the Ventura County Arts and Culture Department and it's been we're exploring with David ways in which we can collaborate ways in which we can learn from one another and Chair West and I are going to be meeting with David at the end of the month to discuss some possibilities. For instance, on their website they have a, I haven't discussed this with anybody, but on their website they have a form that members of the community can complete and indicate, are you a visual artist, are you a photographer, videographer, etc, etc. So that would help us build a database that I've been working on with others to create a very robust database and eventually website of everyone who's involved in arts and culture in the community. So David has some ideas that we're exploring with him.

thank you very much thank you for your activity uh uh i think we have future agenda items but is there anything we're missing we've been rolling it over and and we're just been keeping a good list here and i think we talked about them tonight next is going to be some more next meeting will be probably robust uh presenters i would expect them

A lot of these future agenda items are on your list that you're going to speak to the council about. So I think once you get through that, then we can put them on a future agenda.

Yeah, good.

Did you guys just feel that little rumble?

Do what?

Feel that little rumble? I think we might have had a little rumble of an earthquake. But maybe not. I could have just been imagining it, but I felt a little rumble. Just want to say.

Seismic retrofit of City Hall is top of my list. It could be anything in this old building.

It could be. You're right about that.

I'm going to move on to our staff liaison report I've been looking forward to since

First of all, to answer Commissioner Wright's question, we have five grant applications in as of today, which is good because last year it took them a lot longer to get to that point. So I'm happy about that. The public art fund report, I have finished. I've given it to you all. It is posted on the public arts page and the arts commission website. And I did pass it along to Mrs. Freeman on her public. records request so I wanted to make sure you guys all had it I can bring it to the next meeting as an agenda item if you want to discuss it or we can wait till I'm not sure if you'll be here but what are we can wait till November yeah I agree I agree But we got there I think we got there with your the numbers you guys were trying to say it would should be 181 194 15 it's a lot closer than it was before and We've pulled all the weeds out. So it's not just you know, we did we dug deep and we got all the answers. So I We could clean it up a little bit, but we're not making changes to any of history, just so you know. I can make it look better if you needed me to, but anything that's here is set in the spring book. It's in the finance. That's where it's going to be. So there's that. I have been trying to work on the arts events calendar on the arts Ohio arts page so that we and I would encourage everybody to let everybody know about it go sign up for it so if anything changes they get the email they could you could do by email or text I believe You can just enter it right in there can't you? not on the arts events page but on the regular events page so on the city city of ohio this is specific arts events so i uh me and commissioner wagner have been working on trying to get some city art events in there so she gave me a list here i'm going to go through and try and get them up to date but anything you guys want to share with me i'm i'm happy to put it on there it'd be nice if we had some kind of image I agree I will do that I did put in I had the songwriters people I'm sorry it's on if you go to the Arts Commission page there's a thing it says Ojai Arts on the side click on there and that's the website we are using not just the Arts Commission page the Ojai Arts page because it has events it has the public tours It has all of that stuff. And then, because I did have the storyteller, I forget what their name, the storytellers, American storytellers, he was going to apply for the grant, but, song book, there you go, but he can't, so he sent me his Dolly Parton tribute list, so I did put it, I said, I'm sorry you can't come apply for the grant, but I'm gonna put your event on our events page so it's out there for the public to see. Beautiful. I really want to start trying to work on this Ojai Arts page and get it a little more nicer to look at. So I'm welcome to changing photos. I'm learning a lot about how to change the website up. So I'm open to suggestions. And it might be even a great idea to everybody to take their own part of the Ojai Arts website and work on it with me. The events, obviously me and Commissioner Wagner are working on that and the tours. I'm sure that I could work with the Commissioner Steiner on or whoever So go to what are you what page are you on? So if you click on government and then you click on Arts Commission under the boards and commissions and Okay so when you so here's see over here it says click it's got a little star or something I don't know what that little knot thing that little knot it says click for Ojai Arts yeah do you see the star there the little knot it's like a knot I agree but for now this is where it's at click there This is the Arts Commission page so when you went from government and it's probably gonna look a lot different on your phone than it would

We're already at four clicks This page right here is its own website that's what I'm trying to it's it's run through our website but it is the Ojai Arts website so all you have to do is go to Ojai Arts I guess if you I think We don't want you to guess we want you to tell the community

It ends up 92% of internet users are using phones now.

Yeah, I do.

Oh yeah, you're in charge of it.

This is impossible.

Not on the Ohio Arts page, no.

Well, let the record reflect.

No, and they're not listed on the main page either, and that's something I would like to change. I would 100% like to change it.

What does Trump say? He says, govern yourself accordingly.

Thank you for your attention to this matter that's it Well thank you for your attention to this matter I'm trying my hardest to make this page a better page

let the record reflect confusion on our most uh educated member of our commission and um that uh it's not yes exactly thank you for that socratic method of making your argument thank you my dear council member rule we can't wait to hear what you've been doing

I actually I think that I have contributed as I would have what I would have saved up to the end so if you have any questions I'm happy to I'm happy to discuss that I am responding now to meeting about the social media policy this has given me some insight is to like what about that you wanted to discuss so look for that and we can meet and that's pretty much it

I'll tell you what I like. I really like that you're sitting here with us instead of in the audience. I know that that's a change, but I think it's a great change.

This is the only commission that does that. And it's just happenstance because I sat here last year to watch the performances. But I'm happy to do that. Is that the pleasure of the chair?

I didn't want to lose her in the audience.

Yeah, so I'm happy to do that. I'm also happy to not contribute so much during the actual meeting. No, I like it.

I think it's great.

Okay, thank you.

Was that the pleasure of the chair, not the vice chair, okay? Yeah, no, exactly right. And the chair enjoys his pleasures. Indeed, he does. We had a little name tag there waiting for you.

Yeah, no, I thought it was very helpful for me as well to really be able to participate in real time. Yeah.

All right. I would like a mute button for her mic, though. Can you put it right here? No, for the... Of course, I joke. My dear. Commissioner comments? Who would like to go first? Yes, Ms. Corrina.

Just to further belabor this, I've now learned tonight that we are free to do what we would like to do with the grants. Doesn't that put us in jeopardy that what we present to city council is not going to be traditional status quo ergo reducing our possibility of a unanimous pass of our grant recommendations just saying something I have been concerned about And furthermore, I'd like this meeting adjourned.

Let's do it, and I'm happy to talk to you about that issue offline.

Don't use question marks on your comments. These have exclamation points at the end. Anybody want to talk about upcoming art or something?

I think there is nothing wrong with us being decisive about what we want or believe to be uh appropriate including choose choosing who we give grants to and once it goes up to the council they have every right in the world to say we don't like that we want something else instead i mean all of us are subject to somebody above us telling us what to do and that's you know but we should be free to express what we feel is right because that's why we're on this commission

Exclamation point.

Exclamation point, double.

Thank you for your comment. Any other Commissioner comments? I'm going to do, it's my show, but Dear Evan Hansen in October, we have 40 youth from the Valley doing a show over two weekends. In fact, it'll be October 16th weekend and October 23rd weekend. Produced by Julia and Richa Badami, or directed by those two as well. So that's a beautiful art thing I wanted to advertise. Yeah. Move to adjourn. If there's no movement, this is the pleasure of the chair. We are adjourned.