Planning and Zoning Meeting - Regular Meeting

All righty. It is 6 o' This meeting of the planning commission to order date is Thursday, March 19th, 2026. The time 6 p.m. Make sure you use your microphone. Um, so with these microphones, um, the way they instructed us to use them, you turn it on and then speak and then when you're not speaking, click it back off. So with these microphones, there you go.

Yep. You might get a little pull a little closer, Jade, and you'll be good to go. Oh god. Oh gosh, that's real close. 42. Oh, I call the meeting of the planning commission to order. Today is Thursday, March 19th, 2026. The time is 6:01 a.m. Jenny, you please call the role. Matt here. Steve here. Seth here. Mary here. David

here. We have a quorum. Next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from February 19th, 2026 planning commission. There are no changes. I will take a motion to approve. I make a motion to approve the minutes. Okay. I get a second. I'll second it. All right. All in favor? I any opposed? Can we do this training session, dude? Yeah.

Need to approve the minutes for the training session. So, I'll take a motion for the approval of the training session. I move that we approve the minutes of the training session from February 19th. All right. I'll second. All the favor. All right. All right. Next item is Continued discussion on storage and shipping containers.

Okay, I know some of you weren't here for the last meeting, but this is with the agenda. We have the draft of what we came up with for our last discussions from shipping containers. So, we went through and um made any changes that you guys recommended from the last meeting. Um, has everyone had a chance to read through it and is there any questions you have or concerns?

One thing I just want to add, um, David, you had brought up the, um, storage container definition and the shipping container definitions. And then we talked a little bit about the confusion between the two and when we're talking about each. So, we cleaned up the definition for each one and then we make it a little bit more clear throughout when we're talking about each one. So, when we're talking about both, it says shipping and storage container. When we're talking about one or the other, it says shipping container. When we're talking about storage, we're talking about it says storage container. Shipping container, we're talking about the freight line, like the freight used type shipping containers. When we say storage container, we're talking about the moving pods. So, we've done some things to kind of clean that up just a little bit. U mostly within the definition. So, those have been improved upon. Um under general, so section 50-550, we have A4. That's where we've added that um they're not allowed to be stacked, tiered, or otherwise vert vertically combined. And that applies to shipping or storage containers. And that's all districts. Um we've also think that everything else in the general section stayed the same. Let me look at the one

on the staffing. Yep. If we have a rail hub, if if we put it in a truck center for a shipping location and they wanted to use the the rail hub, would they make special arrangements so they could stack them? Yeah, we would have to. We were going to break it up into zoning. Oh, we did. must be allowed in one zone but like in your industrial or different ones.

Oh, it can be stacked in industrial. Okay. Our I think we might have misread our notes then. We we thought that the consensus was all not to stack them in any of the zones. So, we do want it stacked in they can be stacked in industrial. Is that said two I two two of them. Is that what you guys all thought? Same.

But you know bring in company. might end up being a problem like got a weight company or something like that. Yeah, I guess you own commercial anyway or you know industrial what about you know building purposes such as these super fancy coffee shop that are going in and take the seed container they stack them and make their building. I mean, would we ever want to consider something like that in the future? Want it to be cool?

I think we talked about that last time and it doesn't it's not in our code because we mentioned pow and it was something about like it's in our code that you can't use it for housing. So, we have to update that, right? It's not housing, it's business. I think Blue Springs are several. The only thing right now in the code is that you can't have shipping containers in R1 like as an accessory structure. Oh, does say that. Yeah, but you guys are talking about like in Blue Springs that like new burger place is completely made out of shipping containers. Um,

aren't you glad I'm back? Yep. No, that's part of the definition. When does the shipping container become something you know? Yeah. Yep. That's a good point. I also wonder that would be his own separate code because if they're not being used as storage a business have to be business code, right? because then they would be permanently a fixed to the ground. And I thought that what we were talking about here, these aren't permanently a fixed.

So that's where I think the difference would come in because these could be picked up and moved where that would be kind of like smalls. It would be permanently fixed. Windows cut out, electrical ramp, plumbing ramp. So I think we would have to look at different code for that. So I guess this one here doesn't I guess this one here doesn't fall under like if I wanted to take a overseas container, put it in my backyard. Okay. or other structures regulated as building buildings under the city's building

a little bit about like I know there's a fix or not but that was my question too like if I bought a shipping container port a concrete slab put it on the concrete slab it folds into the concrete slab could I do that I think the answer was

so it does in the definition for shipping container so it says a standard ized reusable metal container originally manufactured for the transportation of freight in international or domestic commerce by ship, rail or truck constructed primarily of steel and design or designed for stacking and intermodal handling. This term does not include cargo trailers, storage sheds, accessory buildings, or other structures regulated as buildings under the city's building code.

Is that different than what you had or is that Yeah, that's revised. It is revised. Okay. So

yeah, I'm thinking that I don't know because it's almost just a at that point it's just building material in the building code. So, well, I think we talked about a bit past time. So, if we run electricity to that, it needs to be inspected. And has to have building permit. Yeah. Which controls a lot of buildings.

But I'm surprised that we we didn't we didn't hear anything about the one shipping containers. I think I saw two of them when I drove around yesterday. Did you borrow one? So, we're not really doing anything with it on the book now. There aren't there isn't it? I thought I thought that what said what does it say in there? Currently,

let me pull it up. I think it just says no shipping containers are allowed in R1, but let me get that back. Yeah, that's correct because it's well be complaint based too. So unless someone complains about it. So we say not residential period. Correct. Correct. Okay. Well, let's come back to that.

Okay. It's under accessory structures. Says um steel transportation containers are not permitted in any residential zone. So I guess that's not just R1 any res. Well, that would be R1. Yeah, it's not permitted in residential at all. Period. Correct. Correct. Right. But this is updating it to just be R1. No, it'd be all residential. I thought it was 67.

This says shipping containers are prohibited as accessory structures in residential zoning districts. Okay, let's scoot down here to my version that they have. So, my understanding that we want to be able to do more No, no, no, no, no. Whoa. Pump the brakes.

We'll keep we'll keep going through the changes and then we'll come back with uh a revision to add accommodations for what you're saying. Oh, for building accommodations. Yeah. But we'll still go through the other changes. Okay. So in the general standards what we have in there is the stack. So we would want to um so should we explicitly say that they can't be stacked in residential, can't be stacked in commercial and then we'll say that they can be stacked in industrial in the revision. Correct?

Okay. If we have any kind of height requirement or stack maximum,

I think we said two, no more than two in industrial. That's what we talked about last time. six I mean a chip yard even higher than that but like city type deal I know I've seen them in west bottoms down there four and five high

they're it says on Google they're generally 8 foot 6 in tall. That's one one container. Yeah.

So, but this uh I think we talked about a little bit this semi truck trailers. No real donated in this portable wouldn't it be? I mean unless they are you talking about strip connected to it or just sitting there? No. No. To be used to store something or whatever.

Do we want do we want to put something in there that that tractor trailers would be applicable? That's really hard to look to those regulations with rules. I think refine what you're looking at. Yeah. How do you guys do it? You guys do it.

Is that a common practice? I think so. I think a lot of people source up like with the wheels on them still. They take the wheels off. Oh, they take the wheels off. Storage just sitting around where? Yeah, he's got down here at the end of a big thing in his driveway. the big giant

and I just looked. I think the typical is 5 to seven years like but they go higher if they're empty. That seems very high. Yeah, that seems concerningly high on May and 8th. made like businesses pull a semi-trail out there, but a lot of semi-trailers obviously are not in you know

they're using regular swift cargo trailer but yeah that's a problem sometimes They sit there for years. I think that's just an enclosed utility trailer. Like people like they have access to one like say grandma passes and then utility pass.

Yeah. Well, that's actually pretty dangerous also because your landing gear fail, you know, and all now you got the trailer or you got kids go and play with the landing gear, somebody don't get hurt. I think there if they're going to be stacked or stored, there needs to be something in there about it's got to be off the trailer. It's got to be like an inner model type off the trailer. That way it's ain't got like that be a lot easier to include it in this same favor work

include I'm sorry I missed it would be a lot easier to have it say are you talking about for tractor trailers still yeah are you talking about tractor trailers still or are you talking about stacking I'm talking about trailers. Oh, you are okay. Like what what style of trailer are we talking about? That's where it's going to get semi. That's where it's going to get all muddy because you guys

Well, that's like what the one Hannah showed. That's just a enclosed utility trailer which is different. than what we're talking about. So, I think the one you were talking about though is just a regular It's the one I'm thinking about. It's the one right down there that that you can't see around. Yeah, just regular regular dry cargo trailer. That's where I was going with that because she brought that up. Okie dokie.

I feel like you could almost drive it on there just like semi tracker trailer.

Yeah.

I don't think so. Are you sure? I don't think so.

Well, yeah. The asphalt gets hot. I've seen I think you can be ticketed for specific types of trucks parked on city streets. Um

I don't know for me he all the time would be a good question for Yeah, there's a section of the code that says no vehicles larger than a pickup truck may be parked or left unattended on any street of the city between the hours of 700 p.m. and 6 a.m. daily. That's on the street. That's changed a lot.

Mine's a midsize. Yeah. My F-150 was quite large. That's on the books. Say actually says it. Yep. There's all kinds of people on the street. Larger than a pickup truck. Oh, larger than a pickup truck. My father. Very good. That was originated in 1998. That needs to be updated next.

Um, okay. Anyway, moving on to agriculture districts. So, this one we kind of went back and forth from the consensus of the board. We did take out we took out the part um let's see, we took out the last sentence structure there. So, we took out or we took out two parts of that. So we removed five and then section C. So five said not to be used as commercial warehousing, contractor storage yards or non-aggricultural business operations. And we took out storage containers are prohibited on vacant agricultural parcels not actively used for agricultural production because under general it says that it says containers placed on vacant lots are prohibited unless associated with an active permitted construction project or remove removed upon completion of a project unless otherwise permitted by this chapter. Part of the problem with that when we talked about that actually when there's something going on when they

eat real on Okay. Any questions or concerns on that section? Are you sure about that? Well, what he was saying about the active and not active and things, I guess my thought is is you're out agriculture for farmers,

but you're not. You're in Odessa city limits. Well, yeah. Yeah. this law just file for I think we use my piece of property as a example surrounded by far on all three sides. So that's I think that's it a little bit. Yep. If you're in the county. Yes.

Okay. Um, so moving on to residential districts. So we simplified this one quite a bit. So this one just says shipping containers are prohibited as accessory structures in residential zoning districts. We originally had that storage containers can be pro permitted for the 45 days. We still have that section, but we moved it to the end where we have a section dedicated to temporary use permits because we felt like that was also a temporary use permit. And we also felt like the 45day permit could be there could be a business that also needed to utilize moving pods, not just residential. So, we felt like it would make sense for it the moving pod permit to be applicable to anyone to be able to obtain one. So, you'll find it now under temporary use permit section 556. I guess maybe I'm not I'm not understanding what you mean by accessory structures. They are prohibited. I thought they weren't prohibited.

Or is it saying that they are prohibited? They're attached to the ground. I'm very confused. That's what under residential districts. Yeah. The a storage containers are prohibited. No, as the the as accessory structures is what you're what's bothering you. Oh, no. I was just confused by like the makeup of it. I just couldn't picture what I was talking about. Oh, okay.

So, if we said this, if we said good here, what we do about what's already in system says it's not what is it? It says it's

it would it would adopting this would cross that part out. It would repeal that and apply this what's already in there. Under the residential, are you going to put in there that they're not grandfathered in if they're so that section is under 557 and that applies to the whole division? Where have you seen 557?

It's 50- 557. Sorry.

Yeah, your packet has the newest draft.

Okay. So, for commercial I that is a discrepancy though because this says use as a accessory structure. This says accessory boots. This is accessory leaves industrial use. I think I think you are right, Seth. That was a discrepancy under residential where it says shipping containers are prohibited as accessory structures. It should say use

to figure out like is this a building or is this Yeah. What are we talking about here? The all the other ones are said shall be permitted as accessory uses

uses. Yeah. Okay. So for commercial we have um they that they are permitted as accessory uses and commercial zoning. Um we have a quantity maximum of two containers per law unless approved through an administrative site plan review. Placement must be located behind the principal structure when feasible. Shall not be located within the required front yard setbacks. Um minimum setback of 10 ft from any residential zoning district boundary. Screening um where a container is visible from adjacent residential property or public street. Screening shall be required which may include solid fencing minimum of 6 ft in height, evergreen landscaping or a combination of burm and landscaping. Oh, and then dur duration shipping containers used for seasonal or overflow storage exceeding 90 days consecutive day shall require administrative approval. I didn't see anything in there about the stacking.

Yeah, I need to move that because I put it under general that no stacking's required. So, I need to revise that and put stacking is allowed to I was going to put too high if everyone's in agreement about that in industrial. What you going to do if they got several lots? I trying to be a double. If they have several lots, they can put more than they can do two per lot. But I guarantee you get some big companies in there, you're going to have a fuss over that because they're going to want to stack them thing because they use them all the time. Two and three high. I mean, I guess we get a minute or see what happened at that particular time. Well, if you guys think they should be allowed to be stacked more than two too high, then we can address it now.

Yeah, I almost think that would be Well, I would think too high for commercial district. Yeah, that's what is plenty good. we get a big shipping company in or a trucking company there. They need to be in an industrial area anyway. So we should maybe So two highs permitted in commercial this would be industrial but you're talking about that instead of commercial they could stagger more than two that that's my thought. Yeah that no that makes sense industrial. Yeah and we lay out how high we're allow there. That makes sense. But for commercial just

two just there's no need to go higher than that. You got to go higher than that. Build a building. Okay. So, how high do you think in industrial? You don't want to set a limit on no limit. Why? Well, I mean, we don't really we don't really want to end up like a a seapport shipping yard where we got them stacked crazy high. I mean, we were to say, "Hey, you can go four or five high," you know, something like that.

I will say we get complaints now with them stacked one high. I'll just say that we get in industrial. No, in on industrial lots, we get that. Just people don't like it. I mean, we also have that we're putting this in industrial. We have industrial right over there. Yeah, we have industrial in the middle of Main Street. Industrial over there like Yeah, we could literally put because then we just rezone right behind the commercial. I think from uh they went to from industrial to commercial.

Along the railroad tracks is industrial along the road. Excuse me. I nurses I your industrial town is all I

twoe the railro they got those two containers sitting out there. They got to have you know something like that. I mean the mindset people complain. So I kind of also get it too because like I don't want your kids running around

giant stacks like right here. But like we were a big right off this highway like because I like right well maybe we need to say the same thing like we're saying in commercial with screening and it does say that oh sorry

well and it's no I think it's a part of the conversation it in industrial it says for both industrial and commercial. It says that screening is required when adjacent to residential, which I I feel like is generally fair, open to interpretation by you guys.

You say when it's when it's next to residential, would we have a scenario where we have this for next residential, I guess? Yeah, that'd be Yeah, we do. If we allow somebody to go into a industrial area to put a house, does that mean that that changes the industrial area? No, it would change because you build up in industrial. You get put in zone for R1, R2. They're saying if industrial was there first basically.

Um I'm not really sure how that would play out. I wouldn't quite be fair necessarily. You build your house in an industrial zone. You better be prepared to have industrial things happening around you, right? What you got? Yeah. I mean, maybe we should put something in this code though that if like something was zoned industrial and somebody wanted to build housing and we agreed to build that should be a reason it should be on the person building the lot to put the fence up, not necessarily the industrial lot that was already there. Yeah.

I that's definitely something for this group too. That's definitely in your wheelhouse. Maybe not for this ordinance specifically, but that's definitely guys, that's you're in the right area for you guys. So, well, if we go back to the intent, which one? If we go back to the intent, gives us a little bit of guidance.

Yeah. So the purpose of this section is to regulate the placement and use of shipping containers and storage containers in the manner that in a manner that allows reasonable business operations in commercial and industrial districts. Protects adjacent residential neighborhoods from visual and operational impacts. Establishes clear and objective standards for duration, placement, and screening. and provides administrative flexibility through temporary use permits. So, are we still on uh two high for commercial, too high for I1, five high for I2? I too. So like heavy industrial zones,

which would generally not be in in town and be on the outside of town. So if you're going to allow too high in commercial, right now we have a maximum two per lot. Do are you wanting to increase that then if you're going to allow them to stack? Yeah, because then they'd just be one on top of each other. That's your two. you still stay with a total of two. Maybe somebody doesn't have room to set up side by side, then they can stack. So, okay.

And there's there's um opportunity for an increase for with administrative approval. Okay. So any other changes in commercial necessary evergreen landscape? Okay.

What are we meaning by that as far as there's all different kinds of evergreen things you can do? So I put a little bush out everywhere. We're requiring them to have if they go over a fence six feet high. I could go put a little shrub out there and call that my ever drain screen. That's typically what will happen.

Little evergreen bush. He's good. I think in the the intent of the uh sentence before that talk talks about screening shall be required and screen one little bush isn't going to screen a whole container right a whole short

the intent is that six foot on any of those. Yeah. Or do we just take out evergreen landscaping if we don't want to wait for it to grow? Because that's the point of it is that you have six. Yeah, true. So we can we can put parentheses evergreen landscaping parenthesis minimum six feet in height. Maybe more costly than a fence. I don't know. Give them options.

We say that minimum six feet of height needs to be at section of the planting of them. So they can't say, "Oh, I bought this and in 10 years it's going to be six foot." Yep. We can do that.

And one more question about commercial. Do we need to add anything about setback like cannot block driving views or anything? Like if we're allow allowing this stack too high here like there need to be any more like you can't do it if it's gonna you know blind spots or you know kind of like there's a hill you know they put them right here and you're trying to see around that hill. There's setbacks though there

Yeah. And that well it says you can have uh for whenever um the 10 ft from residential zones and then shall not be located within the required front yard setback. Yeah, that's true.

Would you go down into industrial district 25 set? Yep industrial. It also says in the general section that it can't be placed in can obstruct fire lanes, drive aisles, parking spaces, access points, utilities, drainage patterns, or required setbacks. So right there it says you can't put it in any setbacks at all. Period. I think there isn't a set there.

So they can put it right there and cause we could just put in the all districts in that same obstruct where you can't obstruct anything. We can add um like something that is says something about like driving lines of sight or something like that. Yeah, probably have to get a footage from center line above the road so you could actually do a manual because like you're going to have somebody sit there and say, "Oh, well, I can see around it." Well, yeah. If I pull out the middle of the street, I can see it.

Yeah. do a hey you need to be center line of the road or edge of road whatever however you want to say it from that we can research what language to is best to put there I was going to say that that was what I was thinking okay see what they prefer because I feel like they get the complaints of seeing enough accidents they would say like, "Oh, yeah, that's going to cause usually

I so on the one that says shall I'm just thinking off the cuff here a little bit, but we say shall not be located within required front yard setbacks." I almost feel like it should say shall not be in the front yard at all. Just a thought. Sometimes it's harder to see what the front is on a business. But I also think about where the old bar was down there. What was it called?

Yeah. Which side is the front of that building? I could tell you maybe whatever your address is whatever street is. Yeah.

No, I agree. I just think I use that building just because there's roads in front of it on both sides of it. So like it could create a blind spot on either side, you know. Okay. Commercial we get tricky because like they don't have yards or they would have to right there. Yeah. But when you're talking about uh the setback that they were talking about, you can't build a building past that point anyway, right? Or you can build a building up to that point.

So, I mean, it's the same thing as a building being there. It still limits it how far it can be out there. Yeah. Well, when whenever you have whenever if you build an addition anywhere near commercial, you're going to have to put a buffer in there with duplexes and stuff like that. You can't just put house up against it. Don't we have to have a buffer in there or duplexes or something? You just can't start building houses. On residential, you do, but a lot of commercial you don't have to. There's no setbacks in our code. Yeah. Which is probably something we need to look at. Yeah. reflex stuff, you'd be a little more not quite this 25.

Well, and back to our cumulative zoning. Um, that's one of the problems that we see is that we have a lot of commercial zoned lots that people are building residential on. They're built specifically building multif family on. So, we're our commercial commercially zoned lots are dwindling. We're losing them to residential to multif family. But when you build multif family on that commercially zoned lot, you're able to build it to the commercially zoned rules. So now you can build a multif family building that has no green space, no yard for the multitude of families that live in that space.

I still think that should have been made where whatever you're using it for, that's the zoning it goes under. I agree. It could be a commercial law. But if you're doing R3, it's R3. I agree. I agree. Next meeting. I agree. We have a lot of work to do. I agree. But that's what's happening.

Guess it's just ignorance is wrong. If I put in a If I do something that doesn't require a building permit, how do I get this information? What do I do? If I don't if I don't have if we don't ask them to have your building, how are they going to find out what the setbacks are or we wait until we fight it in and then tell them? I'm just asking what Yeah, I don't know how.

Well, it depends on what the scenario is for this. I mean, we can we've been doing a lot of website improvements where we put more information on our website. So, we can hope that they do the research. It'll obviously be in our code, which is on our website and available on the internet. Um, it's just kind of you have to do that due diligence as a business owner or property owner before you make those um decisions. I think really question somebody would ask that question.

Yeah. Okay. Any other changes for commercial? We still have parking to get to. All right, moving on to industrial. And the same screening requirements from commercial applied to industrial. I would say with the exception of I2 higher

you need to have true yeah I have to cover both of them up you couldn't see them no I'm more thinking I'm not worried about the view in industrial because industrial is industrial I'm more thinking of kids hopping six foot pets in there.

So yes, maybe I'm just overthinking that. I don't know that we I mean every industrial is going to be a little different. Like the industrial we have now doesn't necessarily have a fence so or I don't know

you setting a precedence. It could be made to put the fence up for Yeah. Um, one of the things I was thinking about for section B, so it's saying containers shall maintain a minimum 25 ft setback um when it abuts uh residential zoning and the screening requirements which would be the fence or the evergreens. So, is that should that be an and or an or 20 or 25 ft away from residential and defense or 25 ft or a fence?

And if I was an industrial owner, I was use all the space I could. I wouldn't really want to have 25 step back. Like you're saying, you'd rather have the fence and then utilize the property and you're want to do a whole bunch of storage on there for your whatever. What's the building set

for industrial? Let me see. We already got regulations on the building set back. What would it have to be? Don't we somewhere the actual building?

Oh, most of the time when I see these it's 25 ft. 25 so it's doesn't matter it's irrelevant kind of A2 we not encroach on required setbacks is that the same thing yep it is so which one you want to mark off I mean, I think we really were drilling that. We're really hammering that in. It's also in the general section.

Well, and it tubes different. No specific front or side yard. So, 25 ft was I1.

Oh, I is different than I. So, we might need it in there. So since we're we're breaking out I1 and I2 with how many you can stack, we need to break out the rules. So I1 there are setbacks. I2 there are no setbacks. No front yard or sideyard setbacks in I2. Rear yard. Uh, no, no setbacks for I1 or I2 match. I 25 because we said I should have two and then I zero.

Are you talking about R1? Is that what you said? I won. I sure. Okay. Say that again, Seth. So we would just make the this code match. So I1 would be the 25 ft setbacks. I2 no setbacks with the fence. that too.

But then like with the uh defense portion where we left because it says here screen consistent with the commercial, we're allowing evergreens in the commercial. So having five stacks and some evergreens out there, I feel like it would have to do a 10 foot or something to be something a little more robust. I mean whether that's a a 10 foot I I don't know if necessarily calls for a panel but like a fence of some sort.

Yeah. Now up here it says you know solid fencing. Right. Right. Right. But it says you know solid fencing. But even to that point of like what yours I had, you can get six foot chain link and put the the screening on there or the plastic strips that that go in and that right there. So I should have brought that up earlier. I'm sorry. But yeah,

so we need a stronger definition of solid fencing or or options I guess because I guess if you think solid fencing me it's either like you're going to have corugated or you're going to have wood fence or something like that. But the whole point of that line right there is screening so it's not seen. I can do the same thing with a chain length fence of six foot and privacy screen. Yeah. Put a solid fence if you couldn't put a chain link fence. You have to be Yeah, you're right. A solid fence. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So, does solid fence not say that then?

No. I feel like what we're getting at is like a chain link fence with a screen almost.

I think we have some of that. I think advance has that behind their main building. I think I think that's it's got that. So if you just Google what counts as solid fencing, it says a barrier con a defined as a barrier constructed from substantial materials such as wood, metal, vinyl, or concrete that obscures visibility and typically has less than 30 to 40% open space. These fences are designed for privacy, security, and noise reduction, often featuring tight fitted panels, boards, or sheets.

I just keep thinking, what is a a lawyer going to say when they go to something or the city doesn't enforce something, they're like, well, your your thing right here just says blah blah blah. I put up this again, I'm probably overthinking it. apologize but no I don't think you are because I I agree with you like I think because by that definition doesn't Yeah even with the screening

so like you would have to specifically word it that somebody could come and say well I don't want there because I don't want to try put a giant wood fence around my whole property kind of the standard end in industrial and most commercial places anymore is some type of a chain link due to costic. Well, and we don't want to in all fairness like we don't want to like I don't know who just said that but yeah I don't want to bring my business there because I don't want to have to build a solid fence that's going to cost me 50 grand. we're trying to bring into business.

So, I mean, I feel like a solution would potentially be added or a dendum or whatever to like you can do a chain link fence with the straight or whatever. You run lines to that plastic B like that close it up something. I mean you have to have something

we just define number one right there under the the commercial how we are under B2 of the industrial you know C take a look above and that's your deal if we just define that a little more and explain what we're meaning by Instead of the same solid fence, it must be, you know, constructed in these ways or whatever. These are your options. You could use the chain link with the uh mesh screen or you could use chain link with the the vinyl, that kind of thing.

Okay, you can do that. And I do think we need I do. Yeah. Well, you can add the definition of solid fencing in with your in your general standards just like we defined shipping containers and everything. Yeah, that's probably what we'll do. Going to come in place if you have a residential. Next would be industrial which most time you're not going to have residential surrounding all four sides or three sides or it's probably only going to be one side most time. True. So that's the only time they have to worry about it, which you know if that's the requirement, that's the requirement for you to build there.

Yeah, true. That's a good point. Okay. So I think the only thing I'm a little do we want basically for I2 are we wanting the setback to be further than what the setback is in the zoning? Are you comfortable with zero setbacks for I2? I agree with you with the zero setbacks.

I think zero setbacks as long as it like if we're talking like what you and I were talking about been like towards a fence at zero setbacks. But if it's front at a road then like you know if it's the front of the business then there should be a setback. But if it's like in the the fenced area and it's not blocking any view then I'm like zero setbacks. I take the insurance place up here that does all the car. Let's say they go out of business and then we get a trucking company up there. They could run those shipping containers all the way up to the fence that surrounds it. That's kind of my thought. That gives you the most area that you can easily use for your business.

I see that the only problem is if it's next to residential and you want to see three carbon containers like out your backyard. I mean, right up against where the fence is. No, I mean, I I I hear you, but then it kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier. If you're going to build next to an industrial, you're going to have to deal with industrial plants. So, you're saying you'd have a setback and then you put the containers right back up against the fence plenty inside that. So you're thinking be another set back behind the fence, something you're going to talk about in in one talked about 25 ft back from that fence

and defense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so but within in two we were going to do that. I thought it Well, right now it says right right now it says that right says both. So I can see if they if I go to buy a house or build a house and there's three containers sitting there, I'm not going to buy that piece of property probably. You know, unless it is set back, then you don't see it as much. Yeah.

I mean, but then you kind of get to the same thing like at the airport where people were complaining about planes flying over them, right? You knew you were next to an airport and you were going to have planes. I mean, I'm sorry that you I don't know. Well, something else that we have to look at is was it last month that we we changed or that property was brought in with city limits? Changed to residential. Yes. On the north side of I7,

what happens if we say we're going to bring this next piece of property in, it's going to be industrial? I brought that question now. That's where you got to have the duplexes and stuff. Don't you can't just have the setback on the industrial houses. You have to build the you know I mean just like if it's the county what because the county can do anything they want to do. Basically we can't make them do anything. So what would we do up against the county lines? We automatically have to put a set, you know, duplexes or something to insulate before you get in into the houses. Is that is that what we'd have to do or something like that? Exactly what speed did. Yeah. I mean I think it would just be scenario based. We'd have to kind of we change the laws in I guess if we you know where that zone R1

Yeah. If the next piece of property is putting is industrial. Yeah. What do we how is there buffer there or

Yes. What we're talking about there would have to be a buffer. Yes. And I think that would be really where that um well we could if it was commercial we could use that commercial residential trans transition overlay district. If it's industrial I don't think that because there is no industrial over there. I don't think that that would be a decision that this board or this commission would do because there isn't industrial over there

and that but commercial would be likely because there is commercial over there and then we have that transition opportunity that we can use to to make sure that there is some buffer between residential and commercial

if need the 25 foot said that may be a moot point in the fact that they have to have some way to get to those cargo containers and so they can have the road there by the fence in order to to get to those. Otherwise, they have to have a road on the other side of it. You've got to have something to to reach in there with forklift and get those. So they and they're going to have to have if you're going to pick one up and turn it sideways and it's a 40footer, you got to have more than 25 ft. So I don't know that it's it's really a problem with the 25 ft set back.

I mean, if they're they're stacking them five high, they're going to have they're going to have something bigger than that. Those ones that actually drive over the top down clamp pick up just like this shipping yard. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. So at that point I think if we just say do not encroach on required setbacks we'll probably be fine. But there are no setbacks. Right. Exactly. So, yeah. So, that kind of set us do what you want.

Yeah. Look, look here. There's no setbacks. So, you're good. If you're in a commercial area and you got to have these setbacks, you look and say, "Okay, I got to have these setbacks." This rule says I got to

I just don't know that there's going to be scenario where if we're doing our jobs right, there shouldn't be I2 next to residential. Okay. Um, we have the transition overlay district. So, this says shipping container shall not be placed between a principal building and a residentially zoned property. That's when you have commercial. Actually, that's that should just say commercial transition overlay, not not industrial. Um um enhanced screening shall be required when visible from residential districts. This really we've already hit on this really. I don't know that it's 100% needed. Additional buffering requirements may be imposed during site plan review to mitigate visual impacts. So

yeah. And then we have the temporary use permit. This is for construction projects, seasonal inventory, emergency situations. And then we have the storage containers and the temporary use permit for storage containers which would be applicable to industrial uh commercial or residential. And then we have the existing containers. Um that this this kind of does talks to the grandfather clause to uh basically give anyone who has containers now the 180 days to um rectify any current containers that they have.

So there's nothing grandfathered in. We can take them in 180 days. Yeah. and they can get a 90-day extension if needed. And just to make sure I'm reading this right, someone does have to get a permit to get a pod at their house because it says temporary permit. Mean like when they move and you just put in your driveway. Yeah. You're going to move and load it. It would be a temporary use permit. So do they have to pay for that? Do you want them to pay for a permit? Okay. Then no, they do not.

Okay. That's what I'm just trying to make sure because like if I needed I wouldn't want to pay for it, but I don't want it to be worded in here where the city at some point could be like, hey, you're moving. I need that $20 permit for that pod in your driveway and you're like, I just paid $120 for that pod. Okay. So, yeah, no payment. Well, then you can afford 30. So, that was just my concern.

That's fine. Okay. Any questions? We'll revise it again, bring you another draft, and then we'll check that draft and then we'll bring another version to you with uh public hearings. One thing can we can we get to a little bit to see how this would affect advanced administration? They have a lot of, you know, a couple different locations. Yes. I've been trying to I've been thinking trying to figure out is it, you know, I don't have anything to do with advance, but I'd hate to, you know, they're a pretty good employer in town. We we've been doing that. Okay. Keeps out trouble.

Yep. Uh, one other thing that just just to give you a hard time, uh, duration. I think that was how do we address your we just avoided that

the intent uh standards establish clear objectives standards and administrative uh flexibility. You see somebody down safe?

Actually, not your your neighbor, you know, the alderman. The point of the the temporary storage container permit may be issued. I feel like that needs to be rewarded as well because it does not like you need a permit there. You was talking about note, but like where are you at? I was very I jumped back there. temporary use permit. Yeah. For the one for like the moving loan, I feel like that needs to be rewarded because I feel like it does apply, but like I need to call her to be like, "Hey, I know I'm moving in 20 days, but yeah, maybe we don't."

And since it's worded very weird, like I have to have a permit or I have to notify the city that I have this storage unit or this spot on my property. Yeah, you some trucking company like ABF freight runs out them short and they pulling doubles they take one of them park in your driveway and let you use that like a pod. So I don't be nice like a pure short track trailer they park that you load that and they'll all for you like talking about that.

Well with the temporary storage containers I think the intent was that you would notify us when you have a temporary let you know where I asked to say okay so we know that it's there for 45 days and not How do we enforce it? Because the problem is we're putting it in the code and there's no welcome to city government. I know. That's all I'm saying policy. That's why policy. But like if there's no punishment for it. Oh, I see.

You know, like and we're not saying you have to take out a permit for it, but we have to notify someone for it. Then it's a new point of I don't have to do this because there's no retaliation if I don't your neighbor too clean that sh but then it's like oh I've only had that out there since yesterday you know like who's going to prove that it's been out there for six months you know flat door right so just thought I mean do you guys think it's necess necessary to contact the city prior to

Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Just tell them, "Boy, you got to say this what I'd like to do." Thank you. But if it's just a phone call and not a permit that there's no record to show when we actually had that conversation to do that, I mean, you're paying for that. So, yeah, you're going to sit there forever. Yeah. That's why close your thing. It's kind of like dumpsters. We don't have permits on dumpsters.

It's like this point, you know, maybe one of them little puff trailers. You can buy those and now you just park it in your driveway and it's still marked ABF. We move you. True. Like you could buy like but like you could buy the like you could purchase one that's like they they've been having them rented out. I see themselves usually don't have wheels, do they? Oh yeah, those pod things. But I mean but you could purchase a pod and now you own the pod forever on end

and that and that wouldn't be allowed to his point. And something we kind of didn't allow in here, but I feel like maybe we need to have this conversation. My dad's moving from my hometown to Florida. They're bringing a semitr and parking in front of his house. Movers are going to move the semi truck, move that to Florida, and it's overloaded. But that will be there. He should probably contact the city just in case to be safe. Yeah. Like we don't allow that. So, I feel like we also need to put something in there and then that would be a

like if you're going to have a semi to move you kind of like ins these guys are going to come up park it right at the street, you know, right next to the curb. These guys are going to go in and front door loaded and be gone.

And I just sit that as opposed to whereas this I think maybe the solution there because then there would be a punishment I had to pay the permit have it there and then that starts your countdown time and then that gets the ability to drive by 46 days. Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm trying to deal with somebody buying one of them wooden paws that they lift up with their little

Well, that's I think that's our our intent behind this. The maximum duration of a temporary storage container was 45 days. So you cannot permanently have a temporary storage container beyond 45 days at all. The bottom not 45 days. Well, that's what we're wondering is how do you start that clock? Mhm.

Because if we put it in this code and it's never been that way, how do we inform the city as citizens that if you have this, you have to call city hall to alert you maybe a little ticket say hey need a permit for today before you do this or something like this. I guess I don't know. I guess well and that's the other thing and we're not going to like day one this goes live here's your ticket here's your ticket like there'll be an educational the likelihood of getting a ticket for this is nil it'll be hey going fine

go get your ticket or go get your permit you know if it's over 45 days are we saying fine for it no fine Yep. I know. I agree. I agree with what you're saying. Yep. Yeah. Because it's like we're saying we're I think we're all on the same page. We don't want stuff there longer than it needs to be. But if we don't put if we don't make someone do a permit, then how do we start? In order for in order for there to be a repercussion, there has to be a fine me. So like and then if we Yeah. You're over there 45 days. What's the point? like we come take your time and be like, "Oh, nope. That's not important." You know,

we don't want to do that. Oh, no. That was not a joke. I was trying. Yeah.

Okay. We'll look that up. We'll probably get with OPD and see what the best course of action is. Okay. And then I will also um come up with some language on semirractor trailers used for storage specifically um and um shipping containers used for building material. When we get on that I got a question I'd like to ask. Easy question. Should we also put something in here that no livestock can be stored?

Yeah. I didn't say anything. I mean, I think it's a valid question. You got refrigeration. I mean, why not? I mean, it's from a farm. Yeah. Like for chickens or something. If it's on a farm. Oh, like using a shipping container for a chicken coop. If if it's on an agriculture piece of land, that's storage for agriculture. Do they have a chicken coop? Do you have chickens in town? There are your chicken coupe cannot be bigger than 4x6. True.

There are specifications so you couldn't But there are pots that are smaller than that. I'm just saying I feel like we should just put let go of live animals can be stored and these on your property.

Who knows? I mean, that's the whole point though is you can use these shipping containers for like anything. Better be safe than Okay, moving on. I have a question. Oh, yeah. Ask your question. I know Bill Street, you know, we 63 acres out there that we know residential when he turns in that permit, you know, first thing we got to go through and all that. We have any say the size of the house has to be big or little nothing period. Tiny home. Well, well, they build three or four little addition like that.

We have a lot size. We have a minimum lot size requirement which I think is like eight eight. It's based on the size of the lot. So within R1 there is R1 A through E I believe that's based on the size of the lot. So but the minimum a lot can be in Odessa is like 8 8,400 square feet. 8,400 square feet. Okay. That's the bare minimum. Very good question. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, moving on. This one's also a big topic that'll probably take us a very long time.

So, next up is parking and driveways. Um, this is a we have frequent questions and um also a lot of variance related to parking. So, we thought it would be a good issue to talk about. I know in the past I think some members had concerned before I was here about the number of parking spaces allowed on properties. that has come up in the past because how's enforcement doing more they still well they still doing 50/50 doing inspection one way and enforcement on something else you as far as having a person do it we find something wrong who's going to go out and last time you said they have to split the time they do half

yeah animal control and code enforcement 5050 yeah we still have it like that okay speaking of both the same where They do where you at.

So what I've done here, I went through a couple towns here, Blue Springs, Grand Valley, Higginsville, Lexington, and Oakrove. And in your packet there is kind of a spreadsheet of what um we allow versus what they allow as far as parking spaces. Um we've had a lot of concerns lately with permits, people asking about materials used for driveways. that comes up frequently. Um we really have no restrictions now as far as coverage of a driveway. So someone can literally their entire front yard could be a driveway. Um the only um restriction we have is the ingress and egress cannot exceed 25 ft in width. So once you have your driveway, then you can go out literally as far as you want. Um and then another frequent variance we have with the board of adjustment is uh commercial parking spaces. Right now um if it's not a classified commercial property then it's one space for 150 square ft. So some of these larger buildings that's a lot more than they need. So that's something we wanted to look at as well. If the driveways in the house is concrete and they just pull a gravel driveway and make it another driveway or that make it concrete.

Uh right now we do not allow gravel driveways unless that's been grandfathered in. Some people they just got a driveway here and then perpendicular put a bunch of gravel in they park three or four cars in the gravel. Right. That's the driveway ain't it? They they they would do that without a permit. That's not permitted. So they just do it. They get away with it and that's okay. Einstein be a jerk, but I mean that's pretty much it.

I mean they would Yeah. Yes. I mean they would they could technically get fined for it and have to go to court and have to do all the things, but that's they're not doing it right. They're not following the code. the the the um implications could be very drastic by not doing it correctly, but people choose to take that risk. So other than somebody driving, there's really no consequences to it. There's no fine and nothing you can't think of.

There there are there are consequences to it. I mean know your property value or something like that. That's some Mickey Mouse looking deal with I mean you could end up in in court and have to pay fines is the consequence make change. Yes, we can. Well, don't you have to bring it up to code? Right. If code would even exist or something like that, you could do that and the code is going to have you straight shot in so wide, you know, like that. You can't get perpendicular to it for pour more like that. with that thing.

You can That's what Jenny was just saying. The only width restriction on driveways right now is that the ingress and egress is 25 ft wide, but you could go there's no general width restriction on driveways. So, it doesn't say the driveway width restriction is 25 ft. It says the ingress and egress restriction is 25 ft. Do you see a lot of problems from No, we do not see

we we have been seeing like in some of the new builds where it's like we have been seeing where they've been, you know, they have been doing that utilizing that and um especially the ones on Johnson Drive because there's no parking on that street. So, they need the extra need extra driving. I understand they had another parking space site but you had you mean the kids come home you get 16 or something. you need to act. That's one thing, right? When you turn an act, anyway, okay.

I don't think it's I don't necessarily think it's a problem. I think it's a better opportunity, but um I I think it prevents people from parking on the on the street. But in in reality, you could you could literally pave your entire front yard technically. about that. I guess you wouldn't have to

lay down that much concrete concrete down. There you go. I know one of the items that we that really started this whole conversation was we were talking about this group was talking about Pine Creek and how the Pine Creek multif family has um each unit has one garage and they're required to have two parking spaces per unit and so the garage counts as one unit and the drive or one spot and then the driveway parts park counts as the second spot. So when they're back to back like that, one person ends up parking on the street. So the person in the garage can get in and out, which creates in a multif family where it's fourplex town homes, six plex, you know, multi- I don't even know how many plexes there are in those town homes, but a lot that creates a lot of people parking on the street and then you have an abundance of street parking.

One way to that and division that I lived over there. We had that same thing. You had your SRA and you had your driveway. And then they came in and put no parking on the street signs and they would they would be on you about it. You have your two parking spots and no parking on this side of the street. You park on that side of the street. That way you can still get fire trucks and all that stuff down there because people work. they were blocking up the whole street. What's the solution?

So, for our code, well, we'll just talk let's just talk about that one first. So, for our code, it says two garage parking spaces for each unit for single family. And then for duplexes, it says two parking spaces for each unit. Multif family, two parking spaces for each unit. It does not say two garage parking spaces. Um what the other city that we saw that um did directly call that out was Lexington. They have for duplex and multif family they have two per dwelling exclusive of garage interior space. So they say two per unit not counting your garage. And that's where that conversation started because of the jump and drive people parking on the street

with only be one parking spot in the yard or on the driveway and then the second one being counted as the garage. Most people are using their storage. Yep. Oak Grove says for duplexes, two exterior per dwelling unit for duplexes. Um, and then Indiana side to side.

It doesn't matter. Just two exterior. So, two not including garages. And then for multifamily, this looks a little complicated, but it says 1.25 per efficiency unit, 1.5 per one bedroom, two per two plus bedroom, all exterior. That's multifamily in Oak Grove. So, there's a few ways to slice and dice it, but it seems to me what from the first conversation we had about this was that we don't want to include for multif family specifically, we don't want to include garages as a parking requirement for two the two unit requirement.

You're going to your cost too. You're going to make it cost you put garages for everyone. Yeah. be a lot more or you or you don't put garages in. So, we're looking at new construction. Yes, it would be this would apply to new construction. That's just multi family, not single family. Um, currently single family in Odessa says two garage parking spaces for each unit. So you you couldn't in Odessa you would have to build a twocar garage

that when did that get added because that's not how they've been building because there's a new house the those new little houses that's true are not two garages. That's a good point there. That's where this conversation started at is these new houses that are being put up are one garage one parking spot. That is a good point. So that's where we started the conversation because the code was the ones on dry in well dry in and right there by the nursing home those are single single

because that builder's been popping left and right now I have noticed that some of them do have like the driveway has gotten wider on some of them that's what we were talking about the ones on Johnson but you know and I think the conversation was really like they need at at at least have two off street parking spots not including the garage. Mhm. But I mean if it's too cuz that's the debate. Like could someone do like the beat out? Where does it say that? Jenny and R code like my house like a garage. Yeah. R just have a really long single car wide but it's some people.

Not the mistake. I have a twocar garage out building that was built. We know we went way after the original house. So what we're saying, I guess if I'm following this right, is your house right now. If you were to build a house, you're required to have a twocar garage with that house. Yeah. And we've clearly missed that in previous recent new builds city staff have.

You have to decide on the side of the house, too. I mean, you have that setback on each side of your neighbor because you can make the house a lot longer. something else too. So every every house now have to have at least two driveways and two garages. Is that what you're saying? Well, two garages and it's just saying two garage parking. Two car one garage big enough two cars. Yes. Yeah. Do that. Okay. That that would be do that, you know. But do I guess that's a qu Let's talk single family first. Do we want it to say two garage parking spaces for each unit? Or just two parking spaces for each unit, right? garage

exclusive of the garage two parking I is that that sounds like that's probably what we wanted to say across the board. Yeah, I don't think a garage count as a parking spot just because most people don't use their garages for that and with the way cost is going people are needed extra space people that's a whole storage and

yeah but like it should just be kind of like houses that have been built without like you should just have be required to have two parking spots in your for whether it's this way or this way. Mine is this way. Yeah. So I can get four car five cars in my deal but it's this way you know. Now granted, everybody has to drive through my sideyard to get out the morning. My daughter's parked in front of me, but you know, she doesn't get up.

What's What's the uh ruling on parking in the street or is there

It just depends by the street. Um it's not it's not it's uh Let me see. Hold on. It's let me think. It's not like each street is is going to be different depending on what the scenario is. I do remember seeing it says if the street is a certain width, then city staff can make the street no parking dependent on need. If it's greater than a certain width, then the board of aldermen would have to make the street no parking. Uh but it would if it's no parking now, you know, it's not like all streets going east or west or no parking or whatever something like that. It's just based on what they are today.

Back to this gentleman's question. So every house is going to have to have at least one garage and if it don't have at least you can have one garage and two parking place spots out front, right? Even if it didn't have a garage, still got to have two. But they'd all be required. Would they be required to build at least one garage or one car garage? No garage at all as long as you got two places to park. Yeah. Okay. That's that's Yeah.

Okay. So, that's for single family. And then for multi or for duplex, you want it to say the same thing. So, that would be two per dwelling ex excluding the garage interior space for duplex. So that would be then four outside spots. Yep. Yeah. I mean I wouldn't necessarily Yeah. Yeah. Four. Sorry. I was thinking the garage was going to count. I was like, "Oh, sorry." And then the same thing for multif family. It'll say two per dwelling unit exclusive of garage interior space.

That but that would be if you had a complex building all inside, you had parking all the way around it. That'd be a whole different scenario than would you know what I'm talking about. just simply explain what walnut or not anyway right off right behind the count but it but the town homes like Pine Creek would be it would be applicable to that too any multif family but it would still require two per unit yeah I guess no matter who you have but all unit we're trying to get away from them counting their arrive at the parking spot because they don't use okay at the parking spot right so we want to force them to say hey you're going to have two parking spots outside. No, you can't count your garage as a parking spot. Okay. So, you're going to have every house going to have two at least.

Yes. Right. Very good. Right. Right. That's the same exact same as what city of Lexington does. Okay. Correct. To alleviate street parking. Well, I mean, you can't eliminate it. Well, you know, when we when we were looking at the the 1912 school and changing that, we were talking about the parking, you know, we got parking back here in the back. The last carrying groceries, I parked out here stream and go right to my door. Right. Exactly. You know. Yep. Even if there was a place to park.

That's the one I was just thinking about in my head, actually. Well, in that case around buildings like that, the alderman could put a temporary parking whatever slides up around if it became an issue. Yeah. Yeah. Like they could put a 30 minute show the signs or something. I don't know.

I mean, you'd still allow for street parking. I feel like like if you have guests or whatever the scenario is. Um, another place that we've been having conversations about street parking is um the entrance of the new Hill subdivision where there's the duplexes um on Lake View Drive, which it's not a huge problem now, but whenever there's 25 more homes there and everyone's coming in and out of the entrance, if there's people parked on the street, that'll be really snug. So, speaking of that, you can replace the sites over

9th in Mar. Okay. Now, driveway coverage or driveway material hot button topic. We do get asked this a lot. Honestly, it's very frequent. People want to put it in a gravel driveway or more recently the PA bricks. A lot of people don't want to spend the money on concrete. So, they're asking if they can especially to to park like campers or their boats. That comes up quite often.

Just need to lay it out as to how it has to be engineered. That's the easiest way to do it. You got to follow these rules to do it. You got to have Do you guys have the packet that we have? We show what the how the other cities word it and I think we might be able to pull from what they're saying to piece together what we want to say. The first one is ours, right?

The second page of the spreadsheet, it says materials. The first column is materials. The next page after that, the next page that says materials, it doesn't have the cities listed. Very good. Thank you. One more thing. Yeah. Second to last material driveway covers. So the first one is Odessa. Yeah. So we allow for other approved paving material.

Right. And that's where we get it gets a little hairy because it just says other approved paving materials and then we get into this interpretation issue of what that means. The city has historically said that we will do asphalt or concrete and we have not been lenient on pretty much that asphalt or concrete but there's argument that other approved painting materials what does that mean? Who approves them? Is it approved by mean? We need to clean it up so we can stop having this back and forth of what that actually means.

So, what's the issue with that? I think just the mess of the, you know, if you're getting rocks and dust in the street is probably Yeah, there's some little bit that's a that can be debated because there the different I'm going to use the wrong word here, but the different because I have a gravel driveway. I'm in the city, so I can grab all their right. But if you go with the smaller one, it's dustier and if you go with the bigger one, it's not. And so

it does Got it.

example my my driveway um I live in a duplex one side of it the concrete is falling apart and all that gravel washers right out into the street right there hopefully he'll Some of our sew is not real good in the streets. You're right. They just they my house ain't eat redone. And we also have larger lots where people have outuildings where they want gravel in the back of their yard. Yeah. Which is I guess you what you say for negotiation as

what' you say? Well, what you're saying if you the driveway to that like a mass you got concrete driveway all the way concrete and as well that's okay. But what you're saying you somebody put a out building back there want to ride a driveway back to it would that be gra as that's what I was asking because that comes up quite often too. Do I have to because that can get expensive to get concrete in a larger lot. So just we're asking you asking how concrete we're asking you how to change it. Whether it's coming in off of an alley or if it's off of a main street.

I was say most of my alley is I can't tell if this is live streaming or not. So, just from I'll just use myself as an example. Okay.

I want to make my driveway wider because it's a single car width. Okay. I feel I should be able to put a gravel addition to it to make it wider. Now, my actual entrance is going to stay the asphalt off of the road. I don't want to add gravel out to the road. I simply want to come back and wide it to get another parking spot all the way up my driveway, but not have that out on the road. And my thought is that if you engineer it correctly where you put your geoteexile down, put everything down, do your base, this is where it's got to be, we would have to got to write it out and explain it. Okay, you got to have X, Y, and Z or it's not allowed. Same with your your papers and stuff like they're laying out here. You know, we already tell them, well, we don't, but everybody else does. You know, you got to have 5 in concrete or 6 in of asphalt or 3 in of asphalt with an 8 in base. So, we would need to lay out, hey, you got to have a minimum of half inch clean gravel. You got to have a textile down, you know, for that type of scenario. for your papers. You got to have, you know, six inches of face tamped and whatever. You know, you got to have your your borders down, a solid border for your pavers so that you know when you're driving in and out, you're not just they're not just falling all over the place. That's what So it looks like uh Blue Springs, Green Valley, and

Higginsville all have the exact same language that say single family/multi um approved asphalt, concrete or paper brick. And then it says 5 in of concrete, 6 in of asphalt, or 3 in of asphalt with 8 in of base. They all have it exactly the same. I mean, I feel like we're just a little bit more rural. Plus, well, Higginsville's in that list, too.

Um, and then Oak Grove also has that same language, too. I also want to add ours does elaborate just a little bit more. It says, um, shall be constructed and maintained with asphalt, concrete, or other proof paving materials. And it says capable of supporting supporting all vehicles used thereon in all weather conditions without emitting dust or mud onto an adjacent street or adjoining property during normal and customary use. It says that in R2. I'm not 100% sure that it says that in every section, but it definitely says that in R2. It is R2. Yeah, it's the exact same verbiage.

Okay. So, it does say without emitting dust or mud onto the street or joining properties, but the problem that we have is that it's only asphalt or concrete and then it just says approved paving materials, but it's like approved by who? What does that consist of? We get a lot of requests for chip seal. I say a lot. We get requests for chip seal. We haven't recently, but we have gotten them. Recently, it's been gravel as

chip seal not fall under the asphalt. We haven't we haven't honored that.

And Matt, on your situation, you already have a driveway. I'm talking about it. It talks about driveway at least 9 feet wide and 20 foot length. Yours is 100 foot or whatever. You already So if you built onto the side of that doesn't look like it would be a problem because you already have the minimum of what that is. That's already concrete. No, that's not how that that's not how it when I went to ask about it before I was basically just shut down. They were like, "Oh, yeah." They were like, "It don't matter." No, that's just a minimum size requirement in general. Like, you couldn't build a driveway smaller than that.

So, like just like an example, some of these new build houses that only have the one parking spot in the garage or one car could not come in and put gravel on the sand. That's why I I this is a a battle all battle, but I think that like Matt should be able to do that. I think other people should be able to use gravel. The world's expensive enough after the police task force, you know, building materials are expensive. If I'm, you know,

I think you devalue your neighbor's homes. I mean, it depends on the neighborhood, but if you're in a neighborhood with nicer homes and then somebody cement gravel, you're taking away the aesthetics of the neighborhood. I think you're going to make a lot of people happy by doing that, but you're also going to make a lot of people angry by doing that. But we don't live in an HOA. An HOA can decide that. I I will I'll argue this point until I'm blue in the face. I don't think that we should, you know, I don't necessarily think you're going to devalue somebody's property. Personally, I get your point, but I don't think that you're going to.

Well, with that property, you wouldn't be that good. But if somebody's got a garage there, a driveway anyway, you got put a a gravel driveway next to it would be bad. His situation would he's already got a valid driveway, got the whole thing. He just a little wider. But it's like going to the outgoing make when somebody wants to make a gravel like concrete. I guess it's in their backyard or something like that. I guess No, I'm not talking about a full driveway. I'm talking about just the addition. Well, well, what he's doing, yeah, that would work. But I'm just saying if somebody wouldn't put another gravel driveway beside a concrete driveway that would

What if we What if we limit it to only additions and it h it can be no bigger than the what what was it? 9 by 20 or whatever. What if we do that again?

Like we we um we limit it to only additions to existing con to existing driveways and you can only add a 9 by20 addition of gravel like so so we don't end up with like entire side yards of gravel. I don't know. I'm just I'm just trying to find a middle ground. I don't I don't know. I would say Yeah. I don't I don't know. I'm just trying to find a middle ground between allowing gravel and not allowing gravel.

I would I would even be willing to negotiate one additional parking space with gravel. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I'm saying. It sounds to me like we've got new construction, we've got existing construction, and then we've got trailer bags. We call it trailer surfaces that trailers have to be on a driveway and not gravel. Trailers have to be on a paved surface. They can't be grass. The trailers can't be on gra. Oh,

all technically all vehicles have to be registered and on a paved surface. RVs, trailers, vehicles, everything. You can't park your vehicle in grass.

This is This is a tough one. I do think that maybe we should sleep on it.

Something pretty kept that tough deal right there. I don't know how you do that. I think one of that one of the things um your ingress and essress has to be paved. I you know that keeps the gravel the mud from going out. If you come in there and you want to have a section beside your driveway, that's something else cuz normally that won't be washing away over your concrete. And that's one that can be 9 foot by 20 foot. What are you talking about there?

9 foot by 20 foot is what we what our code currently standardizes as a parking spot size dimension. And I guess we live in a nation has restrictions that won't allow that and that supersede the city's talking about right

um I do think it would be easier for us if we said new construction. Yeah. An existing construction different. Yeah. Yeah. That might make Yeah, I agree. The new construction has to be a certain way, but these two gentlemen are talking about maybe a slap or something like that. Guess so. Yeah. Okay. Do we want to really briefly talk about commercial parking requirements? Um,

so right now our commercial parking requirements say one space per 150 square feet. And um that's requiring like a lot and so almost all of our new commercial we we don't get a lot of commercial um new commercial buildings very often and we have been recently and almost every single one of them is having to go to BZA and get a variance because it's requiring them like to build to have a a massive amount of parking requirements because of how our code is written currently. So you go around.

So like the gym I don't do you remember what the gym's requirement was off your top of your head? 20,000 square feet. Yeah. Well, I think one of the things when people design a commercial building, whoever's designing them will tell you your capacity that people that are able to be in there, they require or they'll suggest so many parking places for that building. If you have a hundred occupancy, then you're going to have so many parking p places you need outside of that. Mhm.

And that might be why other cities they have a very extensive list of different type types of um commercial buildings have different requirements. What are some examples? Um do what? Okay. Yeah. Based on here's um Blue Springs. I mean they have it broken down. Adult entertainment, airport, animal care, auditorium, bank, bar, car wash, cemetery, private club, college, construction, sales,

correctional facility. I mean it goes on and on by chance.

Yeah, that's what I want. I would like to avoid that. Yeah, theirs is pretty pretty similar. Adults entertainment, airport, animal care, auditorium, bank, bar, car wash, cemetery, private club. Yeah, it's a long so long list. I don't want to like cut everybody off, but it's 8:00. We've been going at it pretty good for two hours. We want to Y

we could go at this all night. Yeah, we can correct. So, we will uh pick up this next time. Um the next regular meeting of the planning commission is scheduled for April 16th, 2026. If there's no further business, I'll take a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn and second. I'll second that.