City Council - Special Meeting

there we go

you

I'm calling this special city council meeting to order. June 8th, 2026, 530 p.m. Clerk Norris, would you call the roll? mm-hmm mayor McClellan here mayor Pro Tem Edgar here council member Radnor council member Crawford here okay we have a quorum our special business is to interview six candidates for the open City Council member position our Our city manager, Eric Tungate, will be asking the same questions of all the candidates.

Madam Mayor, would you like me to set this up?

Yes.

Just offer. Okay, so just, and we have our city attorney here too, so I want to just say section 5.7 of the charter, any vacancy which occurs in the council more than nine days before the next regular city election shall be filled within 30 days by a majority vote of the remaining members of the council. set appointee To hold office until the Monday following such election at which election such vacancy shall be filled as provided in section 3.5 for any balance of the unexpired original term That is why we're here Thank you our first candidate is Rebecca Berman welcome good evening That's the hot seat there, Rebecca, so welcome. I'm just gonna go ahead and dive right in here, okay, and I'm gonna leave an opportunity for you at the end to ask questions of us. So let's get started. Is your mic, your mic is working, correct? Okay, oh, give it a, is it the green light or red light? Red light.

Red? Okay.

Okay. All right. So here we go. Rebecca, why do you want to be on city council and describe your experience working with different stakeholders in our community, such as businesses, community organization and residents? And what have you learned from those experiences?

I want to be on city council because I believe that every voice needs to be heard on city council. There's a great council in front of us with a very diverse group, but I do feel that two voices are missing. That is one of young mothers and one of parents with children with special needs or medically complex children. I feel both those voices and I think it's important that those voices are heard loudly and clearly for the whole city. because it's a minority that's not currently filled. I've been working with nonprofits for 15 years now. I've been working with the community for as long. I've been working more recently with the special needs, medically complex community. I'm living it. Day to day, I believe that relationships, community, filling the role of hearing the people is most important. And that's really what I learned from my roles in my different positions. Hearing the voices of what needs to be done, what people want, what their needs are and what their wants are, which are different, and being able to listen carefully and offer support when needed.

Thank you very much. I'm gonna go to question number two. What steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision making process and what would that look like in the City Council?

believe that if people understood the process of City Council they'll see that there's troop transparency and everything that you do so making sure everyone understands the process and knows that their voice can be heard I've been researching City Council meetings and watching I was fascinated about the whole car wash Hours and hours spent discussing the car wash and people came and made their voices heard and in the end it was not unanimous But I think people truly understood the process that the City Council has to make these decisions Thank you Question number three.

What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process? I

Nobody's voice is louder than everybody's voice. Everyone's voice needs to be heard. Residents need to be heard. And that's what the council is for to hear all the voices.

you okay so I'm gonna provide a scenario here with question number four okay so a resident contacts you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them this never happens but of course never the resident is angry and wants you to fire the employee So part A of this question is how do you approach the conversation with a resident? And part B is after the conversation, what are your next steps?

I think most importantly is to approach the resident in a calm manner. Nothing happens with anger, with frustration. If I portray calmness, I'm hoping the resident can also take a step and calm a little bit. They won't be all the way calm. No one calms down by being told to calm down. But I think they need to be heard. I need to show them that I'm actively listening and not passively hearing what they're saying. Um, by doing that, I feel they'll gain trust in me. Um, and I think it's important for them to know that I'm taking the matter seriously and we'll come back to them with a solution. Um, can we repeat part B please?

Part B is after the conversation, what are your next steps?

Think foremost I would address this council and get their expertise on it If need be I would approach the employee of the city not as an accusation But to hear both sides of the story because there is two sides to every story and then I would approach the resident again, circle back to them. They might not like what I have to say, but I feel if I come to them with a resolution, whether to on their side or not, they'll feel like they were heard. And that's what most people want. They just want to be heard.

Okay, my final question and then we're gonna open it up for questions from you. Is there a particular city issue you would like to focus on if you are selected?

More accessibility. My son is wheelchair bound. I find that parks are not accessible to him. He was at Berkeley building blocks. They had to build a ramp for him to get into school. They didn't have a playground for him. He had to sit in his wheelchair because they couldn't adapt to his needs. And there are many children in our community that have handicaps, whether it's wheelchairs, canes, children with blindness, hearing impairments. I feel like our city can definitely work on being more accessible to all children.

OK. So then I open it up to questions from you, and we'll do our best to answer them. And then council members, if you'd like after that, feel free to ask questions.

Any questions I should be asking? I've done a lot of research on the council. It's amazing what you listen to from residents and take it so calmly and not personally. It's definitely something to look up to and inspire to. Can't think of any questions.

Okay, council members, questions for our candidate. You can ask questions based on her responses, yes. Madam HR Director, is that accurate? Okay.

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about accessibility. What do you see when you, for example, we're redoing our park next door.

Oak Park woods at Shepherd Park the long name yeah the train part it's still Shepherd Park let's just stress that

missing from the park in terms of accessibility? I didn't realize that now that you mention it, I'm thinking, yeah, do we have an accessibility problem in our parks?

So ramps to get onto play structures instead of stairs. The special needs swings, so they're harness swings, bigger swings that are harnessed for older children who can't think of a baby swing but don't have the trunk support to support themselves in a regular swing. There's something called a pegboard for children that are non community nonverbal to communicate with us or others They have one. I believe they have one at Berkeley building blocks. It's a big board with symbols then it's it's a national Sign signage that non-verbal children use to communicate with each other Braille I'm signs for blind children to be able to read what what's going on in the park Things like that

Council members, other questions?

I do have one question. You said you've been looking at city council meetings. Do you regularly tune in to city council meetings?

I don't. But now they're fascinating. I would like to. Good.

You'd be among the few. Dumb.

any other questions council members just a comment thanks for bringing those upgrades that we need to do to our parks who are attend to my attention I've never even actually knew specifically what was missing so thank you thank you for listening

Okay, thank you so much. Council members, go in once. Okay, thank you so much for your time this evening.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, and we are going back to get our next candidate. He's reading the queues.

Was that what it took? I'll be darned. That's what he said. Fifteen minutes.

Good evening. Jocelyn, please take a seat. Good to see you. Thank you for being here. Everybody, this is Jocelyn Coates.

Hello.

Good evening. OK, so here we are. I'm going to be asking the questions this evening. I have five questions I'm going to be asking you. I'm going to leave some time at the end for you to ask questions of us. And then, of course, after that, council members can follow up with questions of their own.

OK, awesome.

OK, so we're going to dive right in. Are you ready? I'm ready. OK, here we go. Why do you want to be on city council? And if you could describe your experience working with different stakeholders in our community, such as businesses, community organizations, and residents, and what you have learned from those experiences.

Okay. So, well, I will say that I love the city of Oak Park. I love how it is elevating and growing. I've been here since I was about one years old. And once I came back here from college, from Ohio, I was like, where do I want to live? I said, I want to live somewhere that's safe, somewhere that's diverse, somewhere that's very family oriented. I plan to have my family here as well one day. So I purchased my home here in Oak Park, my first home, well, my only home. And then I would like to just give back to the community. So I think it would be a great, in that capacity, I think it would be a great way to do so. And then as far, oh, sorry, and then the rest of the questions. So then also, I also serve on the Commission for Arts, Culture, and Diversity. And I also am the recording secretary as well. When I was appointed to the commission, There was no official secretary. So I took it upon myself to volunteer my skills. So I'm the recording secretary as well. I've also I'm a community volunteer with the Juneteenth Commission as well. And I've worked tirelessly. It's been a great journey so far. And then So with that, as far as stakeholders, we've had to talk to different vendors for Juneteenth, as well as the Arts, Culture, and Diversity Commission as well. As far as the planning for World Dance Day, that was the event that just passed. It was a great success. So those different areas of stakeholders. Trying to think what else.

um different stakeholders um i think that's about it for that question thank you okay second question what steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process and what would that look like in the city council can you repeat the question i'm sorry what steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process and what would that look like in the city council

Yes. So I would provide a listening ear. I think it's important to listen first before you are quick to act. So I would say listen, listen to what everyone has to say. I think that's the most important thing. And just be willing to compromise as well and just, you know, not taking it personal.

Thank you. Okay. What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process?

Yes. I'm sorry. Can you repeat it one more time? I'm sorry. Absolutely.

What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process?

Okay. The importance of public engagement would be, I would say, making sure that you're able to I'm trying to think, I'm sorry. Just listen to others, listening to the others, what they have to say, residents, and think about things that they may be attracted to for public engagement. What other things? That's it.

OK so now I've got a scenario I'm going to present to you and there's 2 parts to this question so let me describe this scenario a resident context you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them the resident is angry and wants you to fire the employee a how do you approach the conversation with the resident and be after the conversation what are your next steps.

Okay so you have to think about everything listen to all parties and what they have to say you have to take all the facts I think that's a very important thing to take the facts down and really investigate the situation. I think that it's important to keep our city safe. So if they're saying that, I think that you should listen to what both parties have to say. Listening to what both parties have to say I don't think that they should necessarily be fired automatically, but I think a further investigation is necessary because we want our residents to feel safe. We want them to feel that we care as well.

Okay.

Okay. And then last question, and then I'll turn it over to you for questions of us. Is there a particular city issue you would like to focus on if you are selected?

Yes. I don't think it's necessarily an issue, but an improvement I would say is just our social engagement that we have. I think it would be great to elaborate on that. I think that social media is something that we as a society it is influencing like in particular to the state of the city save the day I loved it it was so cool I thought it was trendy I thought it was very stylistic I would like to see more of that and we have a younger generation moving into Oak Park and they're They're starting their families here. I think that the younger generation wants to see certain things like that, and they want to feel comfortable and that they can be involved as well. Not saying that they can't be involved, but I want them to feel comfortable and be willing to have a voice.

Okay, thank you. So what questions do you have of us?

I don't have any questions, but I appreciate everyone's time, whether I'm selected or not selected. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be here today.

Thank you. And I am going to turn it over. So council members had an opportunity to ask you some follow up questions. So council members, are there any follow up questions based on what we heard?

I like that you wanted to listen to all parties. After the person complains to you, I didn't remember what you said you might do, like what staff would you contact?

For the scenario, correct?

Yeah, for the complaining.

Yeah. For the complaining, I stated that I think it would be important to investigate the scenario, and then they, well, the scenario, I can't remember the exact.

Complaining about somebody being verbally abusive.

Yeah, verbally abusive.

Would you like me to reread the question?

Yes, please. So the scenario is a resident contacts you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them The resident is angry and wants you to fire the employee Do you a or how do you approach the conversation with a resident a and then B after the conversation? What are your next steps? That was the question

Yeah, so you I think it's important to be transparent with them and you know, letting them reassuring them that this is going to be resolved there is a solution to this. That's what I would do. As far as in investigating the situation as well.

Okay Council members any further follow-up questions. okay thank you so much for your time this evening have a great rest of your night you as well thank you okay I believe our next you can hear that mic out there right there's

Amen.

Good evening, Miss Davis. Thank you for coming. And as you know, I'm city manager Eric Tongate. I'm going to be asking the questions this evening. I have five questions I'm going to be asking you. And when you are ready, I'm going to dive right in.

Okay, I am ready.

Okay, here we go So first question, why do you want to be on the City Council? And if you could describe your experience working with different stakeholders in our community such as businesses community organizations and residents and what you have learned from those experiences I

OK, thank you for the question. I think I am. Well, I know that I'm interested in serving on the city council because I've had a long standing commitment to this city ever since moving here a little over 10 years ago. And what I bring is my nearly 30 years experience as a licensed social worker, macro level social worker, so really understanding community systems change, navigating change, addressing systemic issues. I recently earned my PhD in organizational psychology that really looks at systems, organizations, building collaborations, And I have a 30-year career of doing that. I've run nonprofits. I've worked in the healthcare sector. And currently, I run a department at Wayne State University. So, I do a lot of policy work. I do a lot of bridge building and a lot of collaboration. I have served on the Oak Park School Board previously, and I currently serve on the Juneteenth Commission. When I ran for school board, I ran a really, I think, excellent campaign. where I went door to door, where I was really able to engage with the residents of Oak Parks and hear their concerns. I was trying to hear concerns about school boards, but you know, people just, when they hear someone listening to them, they will share anything. So listening to them in that capacity and also serving on the Juneteenth Committee, I'm working with the vendors, getting the vendors at the event, and both of those opportunities have provided me with direct experience with getting to know a little bit more about the city's policies procedures and how things are done around here thank you okay what steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process and what would that look like in the City Council So transparency is really about openness and communication and about accountability. Really people want to have access to information. They want to understand how decisions are made and understand how processes are held. And they want their voice to be heard before decisions are made, not after the fact. And I think if you provide your resonance with that, that goes a long way in ensuring transparency. And the other thing is that transparency does not mean that everyone is going to agree. But I think when people know that they are heard and that they are valued and respected, whether or not the decision goes the way that they want it to go, they still feel better about knowing the rationale behind the decisions.

Thank you. What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process?

I think that leads right into transparency. People want to feel heard. They want to feel respected and they want to feel valued. And I think as a member of city council, the responsibility is to listen actively to the residents and take into consideration their thoughts and their ideas and explaining why things may look differently because sometimes they don't have the big picture there may be other things this guiding decisions and making sure that they understand that so public opinion is very crucial in the work that the city council does. And again, just providing an avenue for people to express themselves and feel like they are being listened to.

Okay, thank you. So let me give you a scenario for this next question. A resident contacts you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them. The resident is angry and wants you to fire the employee. A, how do you approach the conversation with the resident? And B, after the conversation, what are your next steps?

That's when my social worker's spidey senses would kick in. First of all, I would want the resident to feel heard and listened to. Over my years of experiences in leadership, there's always two sides to every story. So I would want the resident to feel heard, but I would also want to have the voice of the employee heard. But that's not my role as city council. I would help the resident to understand what my role is as city council, which is policy, things like that, not HR and employee issues. So not setting up false hope, but letting them know I will share their concerns. And even if I have information on who they need to contact, make sure they have that information, but make it clear that that's not my role and not my decision.

Thank you. Okay, finally, is there a specific city issue you would like to focus on if you are selected?

I think one specific issue that I would like to focus on is business development and economic development. I drive up and down the streets and I see vacant buildings and buildings for lease. So this is such a cool place to be. I don't understand why people aren't here. So, I don't know all the things that we do around economic development, but small businesses support the community. They make the community thrive. So, ensuring that small businesses and entrepreneurs understand what it takes to run a business here, make sure they know the policies and the processes, and help them go through red tape. and get through that and so we can start seeing people, businesses in these vacant places and be thoughtful about it though, not just fill the businesses to be filling the business, but really have thoughtful conversation and help small businesses and entrepreneurs grow and sustain their businesses here in Oak Park.

Okay, thank you. What questions do you have for us? And we'll do our best to answer them.

Okay, so I did write it down. I have my little notes. I'm not as young as I like to think I am. But one of my questions for you all would be, what do you all see as the most important opportunities or challenges for Oak Park over the next three years? And what role do you see this seat, this person in this seat helping to fulfill that need?

One of the challenges is financial, that there's this much you want to do and there's this much money and making the hard choices about how best to use those funds. uh do we hire a policeman do we improve beautification in the city these are um all good choices but you have to you only have so many dollars and I think financial issues like fixing roads and all of that is um something that we're facing all the time okay

And how do you see the person that would, how do you see the person, what skills do you think the person who will fill this seat could have to help address that issue?

I have some financial background would be lovely. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Okay. Other council members, do you want to take a shot at that as well, or are you good with that answer?

And and as the mayor said basically budget budget budget is always a big challenge for us how to allocate those budgets and then making sure that we are listening to what our residents want representing them through improvements things that we can do better as a council and making sure that all their needs are met that's first and foremost we're just here to represent the community make sure their needs are met that we're listening to them everybody and you stated earlier everyone doesn't always get what they want but making sure they're heard and making sure that we are representing them well as far as what they need.

And can I add, you asked what the next three years look like and what the most important issue, well, the community center is probably the biggest. We just raised the ice arena, which would be the site of the new center. We're looking at, we hired a construction manager, we're looking at plans we did last Monday, and that is going to occupy a lot of, I think, our bandwidth. We are also envisioning a senior residence on the city campus, which is also going to occupy us. These are brand new and they're going to um be meaningful for many years to come great so i see those as being our primary issues economic development is always going to be on the table yeah it's always going to be an issue we have the corridor improvement authority which really works with businesses and fostering economic development, fostering entrepreneurship, so we do have that in place, and it's a really good active authority.

Thank you.

Just one thing that I would add to this, and I know this is something that we've all been dealing with for a while, is, and I don't expect you to know this, I don't expect any of the candidates to know this, we're gonna need a long-term solution with the court. For? With the court, funding our court. And maybe it's because I'm a lawyer and I have a one-track mind and that's all I think about, but we gotta figure out something long-term because we keep putting on band-aids with them and we gotta figure out a long-term solution to properly fund the court to make sure they have what they need and within our budget as well. Thank you. Something to look into in case you get selected.

Thank you, thank you for sharing that. Thank you.

Okay, council members, what follow-up questions do you have for our candidate?

I'm going to just consider this a follow-up question. Okay. So you applied, I believe, I'm not sure which commissions you applied for our last round of appointments. Yes. And we didn't have enough positions, but we put you on the Juneteenth commission.

That's correct.

Were you upset about that decision since you didn't specifically want that it wasn't at the top of your list of choices? Were you okay with that?

Yes, I was okay with that. My main thing is to serve, and that was the capacity. Also, when I asked, they said somebody who had been volunteering for the commission I wanted got that position, and that made sense to me, right? So, again, it's about understanding how decisions are made. And I have thoroughly enjoyed being on the Juneteenth Commission. And it's given me exposure and experience. So I was not upset about it. I believe in sometimes getting in where you fit in, right? And that was an opportunity for me to get in where I fit in and learn and serve. And that's what I'm about.

Thank you. Council members, any additional follow-up questions? Okay, thank you so much for your time this evening.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

Have a good evening. You too.

Okay, we are right on schedule. 15 minutes. Good evening.

Okay, Jason to know welcome, thank you Okay, so I am city manager Eric tongue gate. I have met you before obviously I am gonna jump right in I have five questions that I'm gonna be asking you on behalf of City Council and I'm gonna leave some time at the end for you to ask questions of us and Then for council to ask some follow-up questions as well All right, we're gonna jump in So first, why do you want to be on City Council? So if you could describe your experience working with different stakeholders in the community, such as businesses, community organizations, and residents, and what have you learned from those experiences?

So I'm on the, if you don't know already, I'm on the Berkeley school board as a trustee. So I've been there for three and a half years now. I still have another two and a half years of my term left. And in learning, I quickly realized that all of the decisions that I make is for the children. It isn't necessarily for the special interests or any other political groups. Every decision we make is for the children. And that is the number one thing that I, Would bring to to the city but the reason why? Would like to be a part of the city's council is that I've been a resident since 2008 Absolutely have loved living here I've lived in a couple other places in the metro area and and the All of the moves that have been done since I've lived here have been absolutely astonishing to me, and I'm a very big fan of all of the moves, and I would like to be a part of keeping those moves going forward and not stopping the momentum that you guys have all put forth.

Thank you very much. Question number two, what steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process, and what would that look like in the City Council?

For transparency, good question. Well, being on the Berkeley Board, we're very transparent. Every decision we make is within the Open Meetings Act, so there's nothing done nefariously. We always make sure that when we are out in public, we're not talking business if there's more than three out of the seven folks. So that's one of the big transparency. We do push for our administration to be as transparent open and honest with our Educational community as possible. I think that that as a trustee that really translate also to the administration does that as well so not just our superintendent, but all of our Staff do and we all talk about that as a vital part of our role on the on the board so

Okay. What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process?

That's a good one. Public engagement is extremely important, especially if you're making decisions that are potentially controversial or potentially, you know, causing some drama, so it's definitely good to let people voice their opinion. My occupation is in change management, organizational change management, and so one of the biggest things we do is we try to work with those stakeholders so that they feel that the change is happening with them, it's not just happening to them, and I apply that, and I think that that's also vitally important for any governing body to do that the same thing i think anytime there's a change initiative anything you should involve those stakeholders and you know give them a voice so that way they feel that it's happening with them sure

Okay, question number four. I'm going to present a scenario and there's two parts to this. A resident contacts you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them. The resident is angry and wants you to fire the employee. A, how do you approach the conversation with the resident? And B, after the conversation, what are your next steps?

Very similar to the board that we have is that our one employee is the superintendent. I would assume that it is, I'm under the assumption that it is the same thing with your role, is that your one employee is, you know, Mr. Tongate. And so when I deal with people that are upset with employees or upset with individuals in the organization, is I say, who have you talked to? Have you talked with our liaison or have you talked with the person that's in charge of that department? Have you had a conversation with them? If all of those answers are yes, I've done all of those things, I typically would direct them directly to the city manager, in this case would be the city manager. For my role would be the superintendent of the school district. If it is even more so, then there's a conversation with the board. But typically, I lay out the plan, let them know who they should contact if they haven't, help connect them with the person if there's issues with it. But as our role, we have one employee. That's literally the one employee is the only person that we care about at that point.

Okay. Final question. Is there a specific city issue you would like to focus on if you are selected?

Hmm. Overall, I am very happy with the direction the city has made. When I come into any organization, whether it's professionally or when I started with the Berkeley District, I like to dig in first, learn as much as I can before I make assumptions and make snap judgments on what I think should be corrected or improved. In regards to the city, I don't really have anything that I see as negative. I just think that there's areas of incremental improvement, but I think overall, the city is doing a really great job moving forward and taking these amazing steps, especially considering when I moved in in 2008, it was a very struggling time, and to see it now makes me so proud. I brag about our city constantly with anybody I meet about, you know, you should move to Oak Park, you should move to Oak Park.

OK, thank you. So what questions do you have of us? And we'll do our best to answer them.

Good one. I would say the one question I would have is, what do you see as the most important or the biggest focus for the city to continue the progress that you guys are all making? Just to give a question, is it funding from the state being reduced or not being growing at the same pace of inflation, or is it other things that potentially could hamper the progress that the city has made?

Council Members?

Do you wanna ask your question that you gave about the issue of building city?

Oh, so you're aware of what's going on here in Oak Park. So we are, the next big project is our community center.

Yes.

And we're looking at, correct me if I'm wrong, Eric, but three years down the road, we should have a new community center. It's, people are passionate about it, which is good. So that's what I see as sort of the big issue. And then everything else, working on funding, you talked a bit about the budget. I mean, we really live very close to the bone here in Oak Park. Economic development. That's what I would say are major issues.

Any more follow-up, council members, to that?

The only thing I would say is thank you so much for what you're doing so far, because I live in the Berkeley School District, and I don't send my kids there. I send my kids to Jewish schools, but we very much appreciate what you guys are doing over there. Thank you. Because having good schools is important for everybody. Thank you. That's obvious. So keep it up. Really, really keep it up, please.

Thank you. Hopefully you see all the construction that we're doing also as well. So if you do have family or friends that send their kids to our district, they'll start to soon enjoy our amenities for all the kids.

I'm actually excited to start watching the softball. Oh, yes, me too. It's going to be taking place by Tyler and Avery.

Me too. And I'm also talking with our superintendent and the collaboration that he's had with you guys as well. It's amazing. The way that you guys have worked really well together, especially, you know, he has great praise for you, but the collaboration you guys had about that lot over there, where it was really just a squishy little mess, and the new softball that's going to be there, and the bathrooms, and, you know, it's not going to be all squishy in the walking path and all of that stuff, so... And I heard nothing but wonderful praise. Some of our other communities have been a little grumpy about some of the initiatives we wanted to do, but Oak Park has always had a very, very optimistic relationship with our district.

I have a question. When you joined the Berkeley School District Board, what surprised you the most? Was it your first elected position? Yes.

Yes. What surprised me the most I don't discuss on humble bragging but as how functionally efficient our board is and how there is we do we absolutely strive to to at least present ourselves as a unified board in regard to regard to we don't agree in the background but from a they see us as a unified board, they see us as a very cohesive group, and I was surprised at the beginning, you hear all these other school districts in the country where there's a lot of infighting and a lot of deep strife, but getting on the board, that to me was the one thing, I got on the board, everybody started talking, very respectful of each other, everything worked, disagreements were easily handled, And then once we went to the vote, you know, we presented at least as a unified board. And that was like one of the biggest surprises to me. It was like our cultural norms for our district.

What other questions do you have for us?

So I did mention, you guys mentioned that the... community center is probably gonna be the biggest effort I know that as well as school districts funding is always a conversation of topic with potential for the administration in the state being turned over in the next little bit is there concern or is there a healthy healthy balance as a group for the future funding for the city

I'm happy to answer it, council members. I'm trying to be quiet. Can we confer this to our city manager? I thought you'd all be amazed at how quiet I've been so far. So, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we're similar to the school district. I mean, we're going to look for every opportunity to find funding, regardless of whether or not our voters have approved bonds. I mean, if we can pay those bonds off early, bring down that debt we're gonna absolutely do that we've always done that my entire tenure do I think I think to your other part of your question about Lansing do I'm always concerned there's a lot of unfunded mandates oh yeah that have really in the last few years even percolated up I think the bigger thing is is one of the biggest unfunded mandates for us is the district court unfunded mandate in a lot of ways And so it's a huge cause for concern. And so do I think Lansing is going to solve all of that? No, I don't. I'm not very optimistic about that, regardless of what the outcome of the election is. So I've said this a million times in the past, and I'll probably keep saying this, but we have to do what we have to do. We've got to continue identifying new sources of revenue, and we've got to continue to run a more efficient lean operation at every turn. And that's the Oak Park way. That's the way we do it.

And over the years, I've seen it, and I appreciate all of your efforts with that. Thank you.

Pleasure talking to you. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

Thank you so much, everyone.

Thank you so much, Jason. Okay, we've got two more.

Two more.

I'm going to be asking you five questions this evening. And when you are ready, I'm going to jump right in. Okay, here we go. Okay, I'm going to leave some time at the end for you to ask questions of us, and then council members will be given some time to ask some follow-up questions as well. Okay, so first question, here we go. Okay. Okay. Why do you want to be on city council, and if you could describe your experience working with different stakeholders in our community, such as businesses, community organizations, and residents, and what you have learned from those experiences.

Sure, so first I wanna thank you all for allowing me to be here today. I'm thrilled that you selected me as one of the candidates. I was gonna say, I am a lifelong Oak Park resident, except for going off to college. My grandparents, my late grandparents, Moved here nearly 50 years ago. My mother went to Oak Park High School, class of 84. And from there, she had me and I've been here. She owns a daycare center, started on Majestic as a home daycare center. And she ventured off and moved to West Nine Mile Road where she has her daycare center. From there, I feel like I learned firsthand what it feels like to give back to the community. I've seen local families. I've helped, I've dealt with public safety. That was my background starting off in public service. Later, I became one of the first communications interns for the City of Oak Park for their pilot program. I learned so much during that internship. Being a correspondent for OPTV, helping out with the Fourth of July parade, It was such a great experience. I will say there were challenges. During that time, the 2014 historic flood happened, and I was one of the interns that would take calls from residents in listening on what was happening and get help with resources and what they could do. So that happened during my internship. Later, that internship really excited me. I later went off to Wayne, continued at Wayne State, And I studied broadcast journalism where I got my bachelor's degree. I work in the University Marketing Communications Office, where I am now doing public relations and connecting communities together, working with students, research. So I have a long history in Oak Park. I would like to add, I've also helped with Draw My Story, writing stories. I have talked with residents like Tiffany Pugmire. She was the person who created the Oak Park Art Walk during the pandemic. Everyone was locked in. She bought chalk and created art on Oak Park's sidewalk. Other residents like Dale Teachout, who created the Oak Park art installations. Those are the reasons why I'm here, talking to residents like that.

Thank you so much. She also designed one of the city's t-shirts, by the way.

Really?

Okay, thank you so much. Yes, sorry, that was a long answer. No, no, that was great. Question number two, what steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process and what that would look like in the city council?

I believe listening is very important with accountability. telling the truth, being honest, being open and honest. That's one of the most important things of being transparent and accountability. You're sorry, repeat the question one more time. Sure, absolutely.

What steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process, and what would that look like in the City Council?

Sure. So, yes, taking accountability, listening, being a listener, taking notes, holding myself to that standard, like, this is the truth. Tell me the truth. I think that's important.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Okay, question number three. What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process?

So I believe residents are all open to coming to board meetings or coming to city council meetings, listening, going on social media, voicing their opinions on Oak Park neighbors or things like that. I believe that helps in making decisions or voicing their opinion about things. the city can hear you, like city council, city manager. Those are really important things to do. You can't be quiet about topics. Now, there's a lot of people that are on boards and on commissions, but there's also people outside in the community that's doing a work for the city of Oak Park as well. And it's no offense to the commission or boards, but there's also neighborhood groups that are helping out or talking to neighbors trying to do these things. Will say that Okay, this next question.

I'm going to present a scenario to you, and then there's a two-part question okay, okay, so here we go a Resident contacts you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them the resident is angry and wants you to fire at the employee a How do you approach the conversation with the resident and be after the conversation? What are your next steps?

Sure. So I would definitely take notes and listen. When things like that happen, everyone wants a listening ear. I would listen, take notes, and let them know that I am going to move this along to a leadership or a department who's in charge of that employee, and then let them make the decisions from there. But I would definitely follow up and see how everything turned out. with that individual because we want our residents happy. Some of these people have been here lifelong residents, some are just moving to the city. So we wanna make sure our residents are happy so they could continue staying in our city.

Absolutely. Okay, number five and final question. Is there a particular city issue you would like to focus on if you are selected?

I wouldn't call it an issue. I would like to continue improving our community. I'm excited about everything that's happened with the 11 Mile area. It looks great. I use the mother hands on a lot for coffee shops. coffee shop dates. I would love to see Nine Mile and Coolidge improve. I grew up when it was Arbor Drugs over there and when it was rallies on that street. So it's going back many years. I would love to be on board to improve that community. I've also would like to say the dog parks that are there now. I'm very excited about that. the Juneteenth events that are happening in the community. I think those are awesome things that are happening. So I would like to be on board with events and helping improve our city, just making it look prettier. Absolutely.

Okay. What questions do you have for us?

Sure. So when you are bringing on a new city council member, what do you look for?

Sure. I'm sorry, was I not talking to them?

Okay, so when you are looking at new city council members, when you elect someone, what exactly are you looking for?

Oh, council members. um well we always look for someone who is able to um not only be an active listener um in the community but amongst the council um because you have to be able to really be a team player um you have to lead your leader but you also have to know how to be a team player to listen to the other council members and be able to come to a decision without too much emotion or too much confrontation. So we look for someone who has a calm demeanor, who's able to work well with others, and someone who is able to lead as well as be a great team member as well. That's very important. That dynamic, that dichotomy is almost

essential um for a good city council member that's what i would say my okay um my next question um what challenges do you see going on in the city right now challenges some building them well i mean we we're gonna have the bond to build a new community center so we'll be working on that and it's just it's always It's nice to work on something that's happy. In terms of challenges, we talked a little bit about just budgetary challenges. You know, we were fighting with Lansing, well, no, directly fighting, but, you know, the city wants equitable funding, like all cities in Oak Park. We have issues like vacancies, the commercial vacancies. We have to deal with that because that is our means of raising money. I mean, it's the property taxes. So that's an ongoing challenge. Funding retirements, ongoing challenge. Really just, I mean, basically, I mean, people, when they come to city council meetings, they often talk about speeding on side streets. That's a big issue. We have to deal with it. We have to continue to fix our streets. Those are just ongoing challenges. And money, employees, and making sure that we prioritize because we're not a wealthy community.

Yes. Okay, thank you so much.

Do you have any other questions?

No, that's all for me.

Okay, council members, how about any follow-up questions from you?

So you talked about social media, and of course people use social media a lot to talk about what's happening in the city. That's good, it's bad, but oftentimes people will just sort of complain online, and then everybody joins in, and how do you deal with that? If you were a council person, you're selected, and there's a conversation thread that is getting bigger and bigger and bigger, What do you do?

I've learned over my years of being in communication is to be open and honest and join into the thread and to say something, whether it's inviting them to a meeting or having them come sit into an event if they didn't like the way the event or maybe ask them, like, hey, you don't like the way we designed, I don't know, the dog park or our new updates, businesses to 11 Mile. What are your ideas? You know, we have boards and commissions. I wish that was promoted a little bit more, the boards and commissions. I think that would be a great idea, just offering them things, like letting them know, instead of joining into like the argument, just letting them know like, hey, I think that's a great concern. Please bring that to our next board meeting in July. I think things like that will be very important.

okay any additional follow-up council members as white thank you so much for your time this evening thank you for having me thank you

Hello, last but not least, I'm Karen.

Erin, it's great to see you. Just saw you last week. I know. Good to see you. It's a long time, Erin.

It's becoming a habit.

Right. She was at the East Oak Park neighborhood block club meeting. OK. So I'm going to be asking you a total of five questions. And then at the end of that, going to leave you an opportunity to ask questions of us. We'll do our best to answer those questions. And then, of course, council members can ask follow-up questions after that. So with your permission, I'm going to jump right in.

Sure.

OK. why do you want to be on city council if you could describe your experience working with different stakeholders in our community such as businesses community organizations and residents and what have you learned from those experiences all right well first of all thank you i heard i was part one of six people so thanks for that um

I guess I've actually never thought of being on city council. I hadn't even thought of it until Julie approached me at one of the volunteer events and said, hey, there's an opening on city council. Why don't you go for that? And again, I've never thought of it. I never thought I was qualified enough, but I do volunteer at quite a few different events, whether it's our neighborhood association, the steering committee, volunteer cleanups, whether it's for our own neighborhood committee, which one of our steering guys puts together, or the city's. I try to get involved in Family Fun Fest. The Trunk or Treat, last two years I've been the Candy Land Car, so I don't know if anybody remembers that. Businesses, I honestly haven't really, outside of going to visit businesses, buying from them, whether it's Shearer's Ace Hardware or Yarmulke Shorma or whatever, I've really not communicated a lot with the owners, to be honest with you. A lot of that has had to do with me just working. 60 70 hours a week which now I do have a lot more free time since I recently retired and I am trying to get more in-depth in a lot of that stuff So, I mean, really what I've learned, and in fact, the last candidate that you had in here, we were talking, and I said to her, you know, one of the reasons why I never thought of being part of this, really part of the city culture, is I've always considered myself to be an introvert. which I found out that, hey, I actually like being this outgoing person, chatting it up with people, our residents, really like connecting with kids at the events because those are the connections that they're gonna remember, I think, down the road.

Thank you. Okay. Question number two, what steps do you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision making process? And what would that look like in the city council?

I actually try to get all stakeholders together. when making a decision. First of all, I don't want to be the responsible one for doing something and it falling flat. Also, I really think you do need to have Different opinions on something right even if I know something is you know, the way I'm going to do something is going to run perfectly I'm I'm adamant about it. There could be things I didn't think about or just Just other points of view that could make things better as far as how it would translate to council I would I would take that same approach first of all I would be a new council member I I wouldn't come up here and say hey you know what Julie or Stephanie we need to do this or that right because I mean that'd be pretty egotistical of me to think that I know it all so honestly I think being on council really the first I don't know let's say the first meeting or so it's it's more of a learning experience I think

Okay, thank you. What is your opinion of the importance of public engagement in the decision-making process?

Super important is the short answer. you know i i've read some things um whether it's on facebook or just hearing about them where people are upset about hey we didn't know they were going to put a pocket park in our in our area or hey we didn't know where they were going to demolish the pool in fact i actually read somebody commented earlier this week saying is the pool open So yeah, it is super important to have that public engagement to let them know what's going on. But to be honest with you, a lot of times with the community, I see apathy, right? They don't really care about anything until it's directly affecting them. I'm sure you heard that with the pocket parks, right? There are all these surveys going on, asking for people's opinion, nobody bothered to respond, but then when it's out there, it's like, hey, wait a minute, we did not want that. So while I think it's super important, I think the challenge is, okay, how do you get the public to engage?

Sure. Okay, for the fourth question, I'm gonna present you with a scenario, and then there are two parts to the question. resident contacts you and reports that a city employee was verbally abusive to them the resident is angry and wants you to fire the employee a how do you approach the conversation with the resident and be after the conversation what are your next steps I think first what I would do with the resident is just listen to

you know to their concerns because a lot of times they just want somebody that's willing to listen to what their complaints are or any of that uh the second thing is i would probably then go to that department head and and you know speak to them right not you know maybe soften it a little bit because I was not part of what actually happened so to to relay verbatim what a resident says it's like okay how much of that is exaggeration how much is it and you know just have them you know maybe they talk to the employee maybe have an additional training or you know get their side of the story but it wouldn't be my position to just say hey fire this person right because that's not i don't think part of the day-to-days you can correct me if i'm wrong of city council right you would let the appropriate department handle that after you've spoken about the the residents concerns

okay okay and finally is there a specific city issue you would like to focus on if you are selected um i i think i already mentioned it uh earlier i i think the biggest issue uh because what i see right now in the city is

you know we've got the momentum and all that which i think is great but again there's this apathy that's going around with the residents whether it's our neighborhood association which these two behind me are part of you see the same people at the meetings the meeting you attended eric was a little different you know they heard you were coming so they showed up for you you know you see the same people you see the same people volunteering to do different things you see the same people at cleanups it's like okay how do we get the how do we get the residents engaged that is something I'd be interested in doing sure okay what questions do you have of us I wrote them down while I was waiting. All right, so these questions are not to anybody in particular, so whoever wants to answer. First of all, what challenges did you experience when you first joined the council?

When I joined the council I Had just beat a 20-year incumbent and the other four members of council had worked happily with him for many years so I was The the out member at that time so that was challenging but I I think you can work with people and reasonably and find common ground. I think all the issues that come to us are new. Some repeat, but many issues are new. We're building a community center. We haven't done that before. We've done other buildings. But whatever issues come up on that and what kind of senior housing do we want, All of these things require research and study. So it's not so much knowing ahead of time about it, it's when the issue comes up, doing the research and doing the homework. Anybody?

Ditto.

Well, I think that there's a learning curve, for sure. I mean, you know, you have to just be willing to learn You know, ask yourself, are these issues interesting enough to want to devote the time to?

I think there's also time commitment. I think for me, I didn't realize, the learning curve is definitely real. But the good thing about it is, this is an amazing council that you can pick up the phone and say, hey, I don't understand this. Can you assist me with it? But the time commitment, I didn't realize, it does take a lot of time. Whether it's attending events and listening to residents and getting to know or I should say, really hone in on your craft. So you really have to be organized and you really have to be a good time manager, especially if you're working, which most of us are, when you agree to balance work, counsel, and then your home life gets a little bit of a piece of the pie there. So once you learn to balance that, it works out fine, but that is a challenge.

Okay. Karen, other questions for us?

Uh, so how long before, um, you felt that you really had a grasp on the issues?

We'll let you know when we do.

That actually is a good answer.

Who says we have a grass? We're clueless.

All right. We're weighing it. I mean, fair enough.

I think because the regular things get to be regular that come around all the time, the same budget things, they start to be familiar. But there are always brand new things and a new crisis of the day to handle. And you need to see crisis as opportunity.

So, most fun part of the job.

Being in the parade and riding in a... Yes, in the car.

No doubt.

In a fancy convertible, right? Talking to residents. It is the most wonderful part of the job. The number of amazing residents we have that you don't know yet because you're on one part of town and you don't meet the people on the other part of town. That is amazing.

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was going to say I personally like how I see you guys around town. engaging with the residents. So yeah, I appreciate that. One more question. Stephanie, are you going to bring your lemon cupcakes to our picnic this year?

You know what? When I saw the invitation, I said, oh, they didn't say bring a dessert.

Oh, you're open.

I still think about those. All right, I'll bring some lemon cupcakes. She got me down for it.

I have a question. Why are we just hearing about these lemon cupcakes is what I'd like to know.

Karen, that's a shh.

Well, you know what? It's not even just a lemon cupcake. She actually has an outfit that goes with it. I do. She's got this dress with a bunch of lemons on it. All right. See, it's those type of things I remember very well.

Yeah, and that's important, being on city council.

Council members, what follow-up questions do you have for our candidate?

You talk about apathy, and it is a problem here and everywhere. What would you do? I mean, you're not apathetic. You are engaged. That's how I know you. So what would you do? How do you get people to get interested?

Yeah, that would be difficult. You know, I've been kind of thinking about what other cities tend to do and could we do things that are maybe low cost? You know, I've thought like like Ferndale the Public Library has like a tool library, you know, maybe doing something like that I think I've you've heard me say talk about, you know doing community gardens or Where my sister lives they actually she rents out a plot of land from the city and you know that she takes care of which really, you know, I I don't know how far that would go to resolve that problem, but one thing I was thinking about while listening to NPR one morning is, I don't know if you guys have ever listened to StoryCorps, where you have somebody telling a story to somebody else, and I thought, you know what, we have a lot of seniors in this city. Could we get them engaged by maybe having a little storytelling or story core with them? Just telling their story, whether it's about Oak Park. Because like the mayor said, there are some amazing people and amazing stories in the city. And a lot of people don't know about that. So just little things like that. And it would allow, first of all, seniors, it would allow them to build this sense of worth amongst them it would allow some of our residents to hear the history and i i just think it would be a nice thing for the community that's really almost no cost to do thank you council members other follow-up questions okay karen thank you so much for your time this evening is much appreciated thank you again for inviting me and hopefully i'll see most of you on the 18th July 18th? Is that our picnic date? They're part of the steering committee. It's the 18th. It's July 18th.

We also need to see you on June 19th, June 30th, July 9th, and then July 18th.

Busy calendar. It's a good thing I retired.

June 19th is Juneteenth. June 30th is the ribbon-cutting State of the City address. July 9th is the ribbon-cutting for the 11-mile parking lots.

July 3rd is the parade.

July 3rd is the parade. And then June 22nd, I think it is, is also the ribbon cutting for the Oak Park Woods at Shepherd Park project, too. We have a few things going on.

Just a couple. I would never miss the parade and Solomon pulling out his red, white, and blue suit. I love that suit. That's always the highlight of the parade.

Keep in mind, the parade is on Friday, July 3rd this year.

Yes. Looking forward to it. All right. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay. Any parting comments aside from the fact that we have just met six amazing residents who are talented, bright and talented and energetic.

I think it's going to be tough.

Oh, my heaven's sake. This is going to be a very tough decision. Gracious. They all bring so much good things to the table, you know, and different strengths.

I don't know.

So what is the process now? We can talk it out later.

Madam Mayor, there is a 3B item on the agenda, which allows for deliberation on the appointment of a new council member. But if you're asking me what you do now, it's completely up to you.

I think we take it home, read them over, and think some more. But that's me.

Should we then put it on the agenda for Monday?

Yeah, it's on the agenda for Monday. I mean, look at my Madam Mayor.

Yes, it has to be on the agenda for Monday because if it's not, it'll violate the 30 days window.

Yeah, that's and Monday is the 30th day.

It's the 28th day, 28th day.

So Monday we make it. We announce our decision and Tuesday Ed's. Where is the person in?

I'm going to throw out a crazy idea. Well, actually no, I'm not. Okay, I'm just gonna throw this out there because I think that, I think we should at least try to talk it over now a little bit and I'll tell you why. The reason why is simply that if we come back on Monday and it's on the agenda and we appoint somebody then, it's gonna look like we were talking about this over the past week with each other, which we're not allowed to do. We're not gonna do that, and I want the residents to know we're not gonna do that, but I think that there would be a perception that that's what happened.

think so i think we i think we should at least try to talk it out now i think we go home and look at the tape again of the meeting and look at the candidates again and look at the applications again and um and um make a decision then i know why no that's fine i just i would love to do that okay fair enough we could split the difference we could talk um right now just

or impressions of the candidates, and maybe we could narrow it down to a few, make it a little bit easier to review. I mean, everything's fresh right now. I feel like we just heard from everybody, and it's top of mind.

I'm not ready to mark anyone off yet. I don't...

So how do we, then on Monday, What if we don't have any unanimity?

We have to come in with a name. Yeah, we have to.

Like we came in with two names of people that we wanted to interview on Monday. We need to come in with one name of the person we would like on city council. No, we can't do that.

Yeah, we can't. We can't do that. What do you mean? That's the concern. We can each do it on our own.

Right, that's what I mean.

Oh, you mean we each come in with one name?

Yeah.

Oh, okay, fine. And then talk it out next week. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I thought you were saying, and that's the concern they had, is we're just going to come on Monday with one name and, hey, this is what we decided. No, no, no. Okay, I see what you're saying.

We each came in with two names of people we wanted to interview. On Monday, after we thought about it, we come in with one name of a person that we would vote for. and see if we have any kind of agreement or or if we need discussion or if if there's one person you know what if four of us pick four different people that's right then we have to talk it out we have to but then we have to we have to figure it out yeah we have to figure it out on monday during the meeting i i do think for me

Literally all six were fantastic, but I'm going to say three stood out for me. I don't know if you guys wanted to discuss that and come to a consensus with maybe those two or three star players and then deliberate that as opposed to going... Overall six I have three in mind also and I'm curious if you have three that yeah, yeah, probably not a mayor Hmm met a mayor.

Yes, may also just weigh on it Counselors, I do want to I know we have our HR director here if you'd like her to provide any input But I do want to just mention again that we have the scoring matrix behind each one of the candidate interviews that you are welcome to don't have to but you're welcome to

go through this rewatch it whatever you decide to do the way we do it at the city obviously as we our interview team ranks the candidates and then we go from there we do have to do this by Monday yeah yeah okay yeah so if we each come in then with one name but I I would have to agree with councilwoman Crawford I I concur I think there were three that stood out maybe they're the same problem but yes so maybe maybe there's consensus what's that I'm guessing there's at least some overlap here between the three of us

But I acknowledge it's going to be very tough to narrow it down mercy mercy Well, I'm going to be rereading Employment applications tonight, that's for sure and coming up with one name is going to be a challenge Yep, and I don't know if we would agree on the same three best I Interesting. Can we adjourn and take this home and study it?

Absolutely. I'm just curious because it's not a regular council meeting. Madam Mayor.

Call for audience.

Madam Mayor, could I just before, could I ask a quick, make a recommendation? Just another thought. Council members, if I think I heard you guys saying you wanted to each give one name. I just consulted with our city attorney. I think if you were to give me your one name confidentially, because again, as has been stated, you cannot have deliberations outside of a council meeting, and then I can gather those up, and then when we come back on Monday, if there's not a consensus around that person, I will bring that to your attention, and then you will have to vote until you have a consensus on a candidate. Can we make it two? Let's change it to two.

I think it should just be one at this point.

You're going to have to keep voting until you have a consensus.

We can't leave Monday until we have. Yeah. So we have a trigger. A special election.

We gave you a name. We would give you just one right now.

That's what he's proposing. I think it's a good idea. Is that by next Monday?

Oh, do you want like to give two names and see what happens?

well so so let's do we're going to have to chisel it down by the end of the day on monday yeah it's not going to be easy we're going to have to do it regardless you're going to building until no no exactly agreed so if you want to come in monday with two names instead of one name well if eric if we give the name prior to the meeting

But do you want two names?

I think it'd just be one. Because then it's kind of like the silent ballot, the secret ballot. If they're all the same, then he can announce at the next meeting, you're not going to believe it. Everybody said the same thing, which would be great. But if not, then we're going to have to talk it out. And if we each say two names, it's just going to be that much harder. So I think we should all just say one name and just keep it. As long as our attorney signs off on this, just keep it in confidence and then All right.

Worth a shot. Okay. Because, I mean, you're going to have to decide Monday anyway, regardless.

Right. We can't leave Monday until we pick somebody.

It'll trigger a special election. Yep.

Would it really? Yeah. Let's just do that.

Just, yeah, change the charters so we can have all of them. They're fabulous. They are. Amazing.

Okay, so just just for clarity Madam mayor council members, so you're each gonna give me at your top choice Confidentially, give me your top choice today. I'm going to gather those whenever you're ready by Monday by Monday. It doesn't have to be today Okay Call to the audience.

Is there anyone here of the two of you who would like to speak?

All right I

Do we need to read the disclaimer, Mayor Pro Tem?

If we don't have a decision, there's a special election. But we're not going to leave next Monday until we have one. We're going to keep punching each other until we figure it out. May I answer that?

There can't be a tie. So if there's not a majority, which is three members who selected the same person, then they will have to come back and select a new candidate on Monday. So there cannot be a tie as far as this part of the operation goes. All right.

That was a very good question. Yes, it was.

Call to the council. Is there anyone would like to speak? Thank you for coming. Thank you for helping with this process. We'll see you next Monday.

All righty. Good night, everybody.