Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, it's 6:02 and I'd like to call the planning board meeting of North Topsel Beach July 10th to order. Um, we move on to the first order of business is the adoption of the agenda. Do I hear a motion? I'll make a motion to adopt the agenda. Can I second it? I'll second. Okay. Um, any discussion about the agenda? Okay, that motion is approved. Oh, all in favor? I'm sorry. I

I I Okay, motion is approved now. Sorry. Next is approval of minutes. And um this is the June 12th regular meeting minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the June 12th regular meeting minutes. I'm sorry. Okay. Any discussion about the minutes? All those in favor? I I motion carries. Okay. Now we've um moved on to public comment. Is there anyone signed up for public comment? Brian Wilkins from

Brian Wilkins 2338-2 New River Inlet Road. Hi Brian. Hi guys. So it's the first Yeah, I'm an IT guy. Kinch tell. So, it's the first time I've actually came in and talked, but we've watched it for a long time. We moved here two years ago. Uh, my wife and I, we actually live in the beach house. We don't BNB it out, and our neighbors connected to us. Uh, Mary, many of you probably know her. She's like 90 94. Her and her family comes out every week. Um, the reason why I'm speaking today is there's been some issues and complaints about the tiki bar. I assist Mr. Carrington and Mr. Barefoot. I do their IT for them. I actually do security. When it gets a little crazy, they hire me on the season. Um, a lot of people come out to that bar. I don't know if a lot of you people know this. And there's a market there, too. Even when the market's closed, they open it up for the tourists. There's not many businesses on North Topsel. I came from a town of 300 people in Nebraska. and I watched that town die away. I watched all the businesses shut down, the schools closed down, and the only thing left was a bar um in my small town. So, what I don't want to see is businesses get pushed away, especially during the season because in the off season, they don't make any money. It's just me and my wife and a few other friends come up there. Um I don't feel like driving to food line to get some milk. It's a long ways. So, I hope you guys understand Mr. Carrian's trying to work with you guys and there's a lot of things going on about permits. If you get the permits, I know he'd work with you. I'd rather have the market stay there and the bar stay there and the little community area where they have volleyball and kids play in the summer. And I've met people in the last two only two years. I've only been here two years. I don't have much to say, but

I've seen people in the last two years that come again and again and again. If you go up there and look at all the signatures that are signed all over the place of the people that come in, that's what keeps towns, small towns like this going is more people coming in, money to come in in taxes. So, just take it under consideration. There's a lot of things going on about noise, but it's usually just one person complaining because, well, in the last four weeks, we haven't had a complaint. That person's probably not there. Um, so we I listen to them and we try our best to make sure keep it down. And there is no fighting. They want to actually do what you guys want to do. So listen to them because they're trying and maybe work on the permits and then come together. That's all I got.

What was your address? Thank you. 2338-2 New River Inlet. So about 5 houses down from the end, like the very far end where the ocean hits my steps sometimes. All right. Anybody else? No.

Yes. Yeah, my name's Alberto Salana. I uh I built the house up here up about 5 miles up the road, 1695, New River Inlet Road about 6 years ago. And one of the best pleasant surprises was find the tiki bar up there. A place where I could meet and socialize with local people who live here year round. And uh it's a great place to enjoy a drink. You can play volleyball. You can play all sorts of games. You can bring your kids there, your dog. And it's uh very upsetting to hear. They're my closest. Very quaint place. probably the only one in this town that's like that. As opposed to all the uh many hotels that you folks seem to just want to approve with supposed to be, you know, only seven, eight, nine, 10 bedroomedroom homes, supposed to be single family use. And you get you get a whole bunch of different families and people staying there. And uh you see them on the beach. They tra they walk over the sand dunes. They put they leave garbage there. They they don't clean up after the dogs. And and it's upsetting to me that, you know, supposed to be a town, but this is really not a town. It's a a town of businesses of many hotels of investors from out of state uh coming in and and built these houses and uh whatever is going on. I don't know what's going on, but the place been

there since I believe 1983. The structure survived all the hurricanes and uh the tiki bar itself. I think it's about 18 years has been there and I urge you to do whatever whatever you got to do to keep that place open because it services people who live here year round and uh it's a place to gather and speak and socialize and you get help if you need some somebody help you bring a piece of furniture up you go down there and somebody comes with you it's a great place and uh I think it's a big asset to the town and the people who live here year round. That's all I got to say. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak that did not sign up? Okay. Thank you. Next, we have the oath of office for Lisa. and repeat after me. I, Lisa Brown, I, Lisa Brown, do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support and maintain that I will support and maintain the Constitution and laws

the Constitution and laws of the United States of the United States and the Constitution and laws and the Constitution and laws of North Carolina of North Carolina, not inconsistent there, not inconsistent therewith and that I will faithfully discharge and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of my office the duties of my office as a regular member as a regular member of the planning board of the planning board of the town of North Topsel Beach of the town of North Topsel Beach. So help me so help me then. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you and congratulations Lisa. Okay, moving on to old business and that is SUP25-00002 tiki bar compliance review and I will be turning this over to Miss Hill and our attorney Pac. Okay. Hey, Chip. Do you want to go first or No, go ahead.

Okay. So, at the planning board's last meeting on June the 10th, you made the recommendation to um put the application forward to the board of alderman or he could return to you with the site plan. So, uh on June 19th, I had recommended that Mr. carrier to make an application prior to the July 2nd through citizen serve for um zoning and flood for modification to his parking and to building zoning and flood for renovating the covered deck uh for NFIP flood regulations building code compliance. On June the 20th, I notified Mr. Carrian and uh Weston Lyle that the board of alderman had formally remanded the special use permit application back to the planning board. As a result u I revised the notice cancelling the hearing uh for his application. Uh, I am administratively authorized to approve a permit for the renovation of the tiki bar to gain compliance by removing the walls, installing no more than two engineered breakaway walls, and a system that would be compliant with with FEMA's freedom of obstruction requirement such as open deck railings and awnings similar to what uh Sears Landing has if you've ever sat on Sears Landing's deck. Um, and he could also use um a uh lattice or those louvers that you see. Does everybody know what I'm talking about? Okay. Excellent. Good. Thank you. Uh the front and back patios with the two four tops increases the required parking by two spaces. There's four spaces indicated uh on his site for the uh EV charging station.

So he could uh install those and then he would be, you know, we'd have to do a a bar stool tabletop count to get an accurate number to make sure that the uh what he had matched the spaces that he had available. Um and I let him know that uh if he decided to proceed with renovating the tiki bar that uh he would need to have a engineer Those breakaway walls need to be engineered. Um, and try to get this and I asked him to let's see if I don't I don't want to skip ahead too far. All right. So, and I'd asked him to remove the trailer being removed as a sound sound stage in the event that he and I had suggested that in the event that he wanted to have live music that he submit a special event application. Uh, some town town cities do require that for amplified sound, some don't. U, I think the town manager decided not to do that. U, on the 23rd, Mr. Carrian responded that he would like to formally withdraw his application that was previously submitted to the tiki bar and that he'll certainly apply for a renovation permit. The trailer will be removed ASAP and that they'll apply for a special event application as they hire bands to perform which as I said is that will not be necessary. Um and that he said that he that they will install landscape timbers ASAP. So, uh, on Monday, June the 30th, I I had explained that I still needed a the engineered diagram from the from Weston Lyle. And on the 30th, I had received the

complaint that Mark had moved the trailer stage back. On June 30th, uh, he sent a picture of the parking with the landscape timbers. I notified him that that's not how the parking was indicated on the approved plan. uh referring to the special use permit that was issued for the EV charging station. Uh placing the trailer stage back is concerning and will not be received well as I had informed the manager and the attorneys that he said that he would remove it. Um on July the 1st, uh I notified him that I was hoping that we'd make some progress towards compliance prior to the board of alderman meeting which was uh the next day and uh before the 4th of July holiday. As the board of alderman remanded the application to the planning board and the application was withdrawn, the town attorney and I have been directed to give an update to the planning board, which we're doing this evening. Um, and I have been advised that I cannot sign off on the ABC zoning and compliance form until the site is compliance with the approved special use permits. Um, and the application was pending receipt of the breakaway wall detail for the parking I've already mentioned. Um, and I stated that my intent was and still is to assist him to come into compliance to satisfy the town managers, the town attorneys in the most expedient manner possible and to sign off on the ABC zoning and compliance form. On July the 2nd, I received a complaint that the trailer was still at the tiki bar. Mark had posted a sign, I guess, posted a sign free shuttle to town hall. On July 3rd, I notified Mr. Carrian that taxes are regulated. And um coincidentally, effective July the 1st, 2025, the state had adopted a new tax uh a new tax for

both taxi and ride share services. The town's UDO also requires an application for taxis. Uh and the permit fee for that shall not exceed $15, so it's a minimal amount. On July the 3, I received a complaint with Mark's Facebook post advertising karaoke and bands and that the trailer was being set up. Uh on July the 3, I emailed Mr. Carrian asking him if the trailer was back at the T key bar after he said that he would get rid of it. I did not get a response from him at that time. On July the 4th, I received a complaint that Mark Mark was outsmarting me, that he built a parking lot and put up a sign to use in the front entrance so they could charge people, and that Mark was building a shade over the back, and that he does what he wants and follows no policy or ordinance. On July the 4th, Mr. Carrian sent me a picture of a text, someone complimenting him for turning the speakers around. Yep. And so the current status as of today is that the uh zoning flood and building applications remain incomplete. I'm still waiting on the uh engineered design for the breakaway walls and there's no progress towards compliant compliance has been made.

No. So, um, Madam Chair, just just to add to what Deb just said, I think, um, Mr. Carrian or his predecessor, um, got a conditional use permit back in 2010. Uh the mechanism that brought uh the non-compliance issues to our attention was the ABCC permit which has a statutory requirement that the town sign off that um the TP bar is is in compliance with zoning. Um we we dead went out and inspected it. There were a couple issues. Um Mr. here are going to have a choice of either submitting an application for a special use permit uh or coming into compliance with the 2010 conditional use permit. So, I think we started down the special use permit road. Um that's what was before you last time. Uh and there's been a little bit of a shift in gears here, which is obviously Mr. Carrian's prerogative to come into compliance with the 2010 conditional use permit. Um, I think Deb has done an admirable job working with him, I believe, um, in offering suggestions and and alternatives. Unfortunately, um, we're still non-compliant. Um, so I don't think there's any action for planning board uh, today. I think Deb can we can handle this administratively. Um, but we just wanted to provide you with an update to try to kind of close the loop. Can I ask a question?

Sure. So, with the tiki bar still being in non-compliance, what's their operating status?

They're still operating. I know that I've heard uh the Mr. Let's put his thing away. I don't want to mispronounce his name. Give me one second. Uh Sana had made a comment that uh something about, you know, the town was trying to close the tiki bar. Uh I've heard other remarks to that effect. That has certainly not been I don't think that I have heard anyone say close the tiki bar. I think that what I've done from the very beginning is try to address the non-compliance issues and also uh try to mitigate uh try to mitigate the noise in the process. So, you know, at no time have I whispered or typed or yelled that my agenda was to shut down the tiki bar. And I have not been given that direction to shut down the tiki bar from anyone else. So, I'd appreciate it if y'all just took my word for that and stop it because all that does is continue to keep things stirred up and split people whenever we're trying to um incorporate the development as you know accommodate the the development as well as the um benefit of having a marketplace and someplace to go and have a beer with your friends within walking distance. So, I still don't see any reason why that can't be accomplished.

And I have one more question. Um does this non-compliance affect their ability to comply with the ABC license to sell to sell beer? I I cannot sign off on I cannot sign off on that inspection sheet until they are in compliance. If I had if I had to sign off on it today, I would have to uh basically report what I reported to you last month and again today that they're that they're not in compliance. NF the NFIP Eastern Planner has confirmed that um the covered deck and that's how that's how it was originally approved in that um SUP 1001 was that it was a covered deck and it's turned into a covered deck into into an enclosure. And so I had asked her, I said, "Well, um, can they," I called her up and I said, "Can they have, you know, breakaway walls?" Thinking that strategically you could put breakaway walls up and that would, you know, help. And there's also the question of security. Uh, if I had a bar, I would be concerned about having it open and kids getting in it or teenagers getting in it or people like me getting in it, you know, and and so there's got to be a way that that uh that can also be secured. you don't want to have to go in and put all your liquor up and then at the end end of the night take all your liquor down and put it in the store and lock it up. So, so uh she agreed that two breakaway walls would not constitute a violation of FEMA's freedom from obstruction. And so I said, "Well, can I have three?" And she said, "No, absolutely not." She goes, "That's we're you're walking over the line on that one." So, it was a push to get the two approved. And so, and I know that louver the louvers and the lattice are are not considered a wall structure. So, I

didn't I didn't ask her about that. And I didn't give her the opportunity to tell me no on that one like I did the three walls. But, um certainly even with like the railing system and the awning system, I uh at least two or three options you know that you could resolve um resolve that compliance very easily and very inexpensively I might add. Um so until until we can get uh you know the parking and the um the covered deck into compliance. I can't sign off on that form and I've been told I cannot sign off on that form

and the general statute in terms of general statutes don't allow for me to sorry

I I think in terms of operation um you know I think if you break it into two pieces the town has responsibility through its ordinances for the operation of the tiki bar um we are trying to work with Mr. Carrian Deb is trying to work with Mr. Again, we have not issued notice with a timetable on it yet. Um I think we're we're probably getting close to that time frame. Um in terms of uh so he obviously since we have not noticed uh him uh he can continue to operate in terms of his ABC license. Um you know we can't sign off as Deb said on the zoning um inspection form um what that what the implications are for Mr. Carrian's liquor license. I don't know. Um, but that's, you know, that's between him and the ABC that he may be operating at risk, but I can't comment really on that.

So, I guess from from our standpoint here and Deb with what you're saying, nobody has been said anything about, you know, let's shut the place down. It's, you know, it's we're trying. We want the we want them to be in compliance. Build it from a building code standpoint. The building needs to be safe. Um the sanitation facilities need to be need to be there. Um meeting fire codes for occupancy that that kind of stuff, you know, emergency, you know, how emergency vehicles going to get in if there's something going on. Those are the kind of things that that we need to make sure are in place. Um, now as far as if I understand the ABC laws, the ABC laws dictate when he can serve, what he can serve, and who he can serve.

Right. We just have to make sure that where he's serving it is is is a safe is providing a safe environment.

That's correct. Now, as far as being a bar, this I'm going to use use an analogy we do back up in the country where I came from. When you go when you move into a rural area next to a hog farm, don't start complaining about the hog farm stanking. You move into a neighborhood, there's a bar. When I moved here, there was a bar. It was a nice, quiet little place. You didn't even know it was there. Got no problem with a bar being there. But over the last year and a half, two years, the noise from the live music has gotten out of hand. Um, now we the town has has a has an ordinance in has an ordinance in place and if I'm understanding it properly, um, from 9:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m., uh, the sound level can't exceed 70 dB. at 1000 p.m. that falls to 55 dB. Is is that is that the correct number? Now,

I it it sounds it sounds right. And to the best of my recol recollection, the town also increased that level to accommodate the ticket.

Okay. Um and like I say, I have I couldn't find that in writing, but I looked to see what our neighbors down the road are doing. Surf City and Topppsel out Topsel Beach both they're they they extend theirs to 11:00 and on Friday and Saturday it's a maximum of 80 and then it drops back to um then it drops back to 60 at 11:00. I've talked to a lot of you musicians and different bands that play in these different locations and some of the some of the ones that I've been asked to leave at at times over the years. Um, but at curfew time, which is right now the way I re you know, right now North Topppsel Beach is 10:00, Surf City is 11:00, Topsel Beach is 11:00. That's your curfew because that's when your noise level drops. And the guys know that if you're playing at one of those one of those facilities, you better be done at 11 o'clock because you're turning your stuff's getting turned off. They respect what the what the towns have given them as guidelines because the the business owners want to stay in compliance. The entertainers want to stay in compliance. So, they've got so they've got somewhere to go and play. Also, um I'm on I I live right I live on Seagull Lane right across across the street tiki bars in my backyard and 12:30 1:00 1:30 in the morning. It's not unusual to hear things going on over there with the karaoke machine still going or the the band still playing or whatever. Um, I think if you if we can get into some compliance from the noise standpoint when that first curfew hits,

not telling you you got to close up and go to the house. The ABC board says you can stay open till 12:31, 1:30, 2:00, depending on, you know, what time of year it is. Just turn your music down. You can stay there and drink and party all you want to. Just turn the amplified music down. And I think if we can get if we can get in a habit of that, um the complaints will go away. I really do. Um and like I say, that's that's just that's just me. Um and my my own opinion, but I think we get a safe environment for the folks to come in. Got no problems. But I think we need to look and get get some teeth into how our how the noise and the and the peace is is is being monitored and not and I'm not 100% certain how how the things are zoned, but everything you talk about, you know, the the the 11:00 curfew times and the um increased increased allowable decibb of noise are in or set aside for commercial areas. Now, that's a very small commercial area. If I want to have a party in my backyard, which I've had one just a few weeks ago, we shut down at 10:30 and my maximum allowable after after 10:00. I had I couldn't exceed um I had to be in the 60 to 60 decel range the entire time I was there. Um so the commercial guys the commercial properties are given a little bit more le leeway but I think if we get us kind of kind of designate where that where that um curfew is and start getting some

compliance to that. a lot of this noise is going to shut itself down. Just a point of clarification. So since the current status is that the flood zoning building applications are incomplete and there's no progress towards the compliance that has been made that has to be made. This is justformational. So this is just an FI FYI for the board today and then the owners Mr. Carrian knows what he needs to do to go forward. Correct. That's correct. That's correct. Thank you.

So they I assume then that they will have to come in compliance go to the board of alderman and get referred to back to us or just come straight to us? No, because I have the authority to sign off as long as he doesn't want to change anything from the two special use permits that were issued and structurally he meets building code flood and zoning requirements. There's no reason for him to have to go back to the uh for there's no reason for him either to come back to the planning board or to uh go to the board of alderman. He's withdrawn his special use permit application and and the point of and I know that I kind of threw you a curveball whenever I brought him to you to begin with without a site plan because you're used to seeing a site plan with every application. So, but he wasn't asking for anything. He wasn't asking for anything outside. He was saying, you know, tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it. So since the special use permit application has been withdrawn, the planning board really isn't doesn't have to take any action at all.

That's correct. Okay. Yes. Tonight was merely an update for everyone to understand where this started and where it is.

Yeah. It's also to apologize for interrupting you. It's also to memorialize in writing in a in a public meeting because it was a um it was an application that was submitted to you for your review. You did make a recommendation. The board of alderman did in fact rem remand it back to the planning board. So somewhere along the line somebody might say well what happened with that? So we need to kind of put a bow on it and say he withdrew his application. We were going to take care of the uh non-compliance issues administratively. Sorry.

Sounds fairly equitable. I'm sorry. We're not taking any comments. There's four mistakes. I'm sorry. We're not taking comment. You had your opportunity before. Anyway, thank you though.

Okay. So it sounds

sounds like this subject is finished unless there's anything else from anybody. Okay, moving on to new business. Southeastern North Carolina Regional Hazard Mitigation Plan. There we go. All right. So, I'll do a a quick little intro. There's a on the next slide. There's a fourm minute uh video that explains what a hazard mitigation plan is. I know that we've got some new members. Um the video was so concise, short and concise and accurate, uh that I didn't feel the need to plagiarize it or make up my own. And so I thought I'd just start that off as an introduction for those of you to uh kind of get an idea of what we're talking about with a hazard mitigation plan and the and I'll go more into detail you on the importance but I think that they hit u all the bullet points. So Rick if you can go ahead and start that for us. It worked upstairs.

Shoot. Do you still have the link?

Did you email that to me? I was going to There was one that I emailed to you that that was the flooding and I didn't want to get into that. I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole. If he can't get that to play, I'll I'll send y'all the link so you can do that later. Um, so we can go ahead and just skip to the next part to the next slide.

There's there's also a link on that that Oh, there you go. What is a FEMA approved hazard mitigation plan and what role does it play in securing FEMA funding? Today I'm going to answer those questions and more. So, first, what is a FEMA approved hazard mitigation plan? It's a written plan or document developed by a state, tribe, or local government, and it identifies ways to reduce future damages from natural hazards. FEMA requires a community to be covered under one of these plans to be eligible for certain types of federal disaster assistance, including grants for flood flood relief projects. Now, rather than every community having a separate plan, there's also multi-jurisdictional plans such as a county plan that can cover participating communities within the county. So before we talk about the details of the plan, let's take a step back and discuss who would be involved in developing one of these plans. So typically there's a lead agency or department and a planning committee which provides input on the plan. For multi-jurisdictional plans, the county would be the lead agency and each participating community should have at least one representative on the committee. In addition to the committee members, the public and other stakeholders must have opportunities to be involved in the planning process too. So once the committee is formed, the plan preparation can begin. Let's look at what information is included in the plan. So first, a hazard mitigation plan establishes goals and priorities. The goals of the plan are used as a guide throughout the planning process and they help prioritize action items. Once the goals are established, the plan will then identify potential hazards like

tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, and flooding. Then after identifying the hazards, the plan assesses the risk associated with each hazard. In essence, how likely will each hazard take place and at what severity? This is where we look at historical data and disaster declarations within the planning area. Next, the plan will develop strategies to mitigate or eliminate the risk. This is a critical step where each jurisdiction develops specific actions or projects to reduce vulnerability from natural hazards. So, that's the general makeup of the hazard mitigation plan. But how does this relate to grants for flood relief projects? Well, as I mentioned at the start of this video, having an approved plan is a requirement for FEMA flood relief grants. Each comm participating community must have specific action items in the plan. And ideally, the project you submit to FEMA for grant funding would be listed as an action item in the plan. This shows the project will mitigate future damages from natural hazards and will show that there's a longstanding need for the project. It isn't just thought up overnight. Make sense? After the draft plan is ready, the lead agency will submit the plan to the state emergency management agency for review. The state is once the state is satisfied that the plan meets all of the requirements. They will send it to FEMA for approval. The lead agency and participating communities can either adopt the plan through resolution before or after it is submitted to FEMA. Either way, FEMA will issue a letter stating which jurisdictions meet the participation requirements, and FEMA needs a resolution adopting the plan from each jurisdiction. Without formal adoption, the jurisdiction will not be eligible for certain FEMA assistance. But once

approved, the plan is valid for 5 years. If you don't have a FEMA approved hazard mitigation plan, FEMA's hazard mitigation assistance HMA program provides planning grants for communities looking to develop or update their hazard mitigation plan. So, do you have a hazard mitigation plan ready? If you do, click over to our highle overview of the benefits and process of flood mitigation grants. Pretty cool,

right? So, uh, there's a link. Anybody that's watching this when we broadcast it, you can take your, uh, cam your phone on your camera, hit that QR code, and that'll take you to the to the survey. Uh, I emailed the survey out to the planning board and board of adjustment members. Uh, so hopefully all of you have had a time to do that. If you have not, please do. Um, and Ricky also sent the uh, link to the survey out on the Sunshine List, and it's posted on the town's uh, website as well. So, the more input that we can get, uh, the better that we can define the the public and the planning board's um, uh, priorities and concerns. And this can be a very valid document, not just some document that we do and put a check in the box. Okay. Uh, next, Ricky. Uh, so there's also a QR code and a link for the, uh, project website. So, uh, next, see if I said it. Okay. So, prior to 2020, the town participated in a in the Enzo County multi-jurisdictional hazard mitigation plan. Try saying that three times fast. Uh, but we were with the county up until 2020. And then in 2020, um, we joined Pender County, uh, Brunswick County, and New Hover County along with Enslow and did a regional did a southeast regional, um, hazard mitigation plan. And so this year, uh, we will be doing an update to that plan that we did in 2020. Also, FEMA came out with new requirements because, you know, they're going to you can't just do it once without them changing the rules. Uh, so in 2023, they

came out with new guidelines for hazard mitigation plans as well. So, and and the emphasis is that if you anticipate any type of funding or grants from FEMA, you must have that hazard mitigation plan. That's there's two federal laws that require it. It's also in the state law that requires it as well. Um an extra bonus to using the planning board because you know for me the world revolves around CRS, right? So with the planning board uh re reviewing and participating in the development of um of the plan but in particularly the capability assessment and the mitigation plan uh we get extra points on uh we get extra points for CRS when this I think it's ESP firm when this firm took over uh they're very mindful on the localities that are participating in CRS. So that whole document gets graded, that whole entire plan uh gets graded as part of our CRS and it is a substantial uh scoring of points that that we obtain because of that document. Okay. And so for the I I'm envisioning that at our meeting in August that I would have a draft I think I should be able to have a draft available for you. Um I might be wrong on that. We might have to have like a public uh like a sharet uh but I should in the next month or so have a

draft of the uh capability assessment as well as the uh mitigation plan updates. So we want to and you'll be a part of this process identify new capabilities or adjusting existing capabilities and anything that we've uh any projects that we have currently going on that should be noted. Uh coincidentally I have a mitig I have a hazard mitigation project that I'm working on now with the state. Uh so we would include that in there that that would be in progress. Hopefully I we'll be able to say that. Um and then on the mitigation plan to pro on the mitigation plan to provide detailed status update on each action and that's the things that we said that we were going to do and they're assigned to individuals whether it's the town manager or myself or the fire department or whoever. Um and this is under this is in depart all the departments town manager we are all involved in this. It's not just the planning department and the planning director. Okay. Uh but it's a plan. So, you know, it's mine. So, um uh and also brainstorm. Think about new actions to address existing gaps or weaknesses. And we don't have to go very far from your TV hearing about the sirens and alarms and early warning systems and things like that. how critical they are. Right? So, um I was going to really get into that on the front end, but I decided you probably understand and embrace the importance of this document without me uh dredging all that up and rehashing the news for you. Next. So, the project schedule uh they had a kickoff meeting May 28th and then a

larger stakeholder meeting on June the 19th that both the town manager and I participated in and um they should have a public meeting number one within within 60 days of what we did. So, two two months from the last meeting we had on June 19th. Um, and then, uh, you can read the there'll be another meeting in late summer of 2025, mitigation strategy meeting early fall 2025. Public meeting number two, two weeks prior to the draft submitt. Um, the company will put the draft together and deliver it. They proposed a date of October the 18th for deliverables and then the ex existing plan uh the 2021 plan that we have expires uh April 28th of 2026. So, we we have time to do a good job on this and to put some thought on into this. And I'll send you a link to I'll send you the link, but you can find it if you go on the town's website under departments and under planning department. Uh down at the bottom there's a PDF PDF that says um southeast regional hazard mitigation plan. If you click on that, because that is such a volumous document, uh what I would recommend is that you type in in the search bar like North Tops Beach and I think it's in there like 15 times. So when you go through look at the and they've got a tremendous amount of data uh that this firm has incorporated in this. So it's that data I'm sure will also be being updated for the 2025 time period as well. So when you look at you'll get to um I think the hazard mitigation part and I think that might be like four or five pages. I'm not sure. It won't take

you very long just to look at it and be familiar with it to where that you get a flavor of what direction that we're going in. So when you think about hazards and u certainly I don't want to spend a lot of time on it tonight. I just want to get you thinking about it but when you think about hazards certainly we think about flooding for here on the coast. Uh hazards can also be sink holes. Hazards can also be wildfires. Hazards can also also be health related such as CO that we went through. And there's a lot of data in that uh 2021 document uh pertaining to CO. So um tsunamis even though we haven't had a tsunami that's still a potential hazard, right? So we don't have dams but if we had a dam a dam breaking would be uh considered a hazard. So, um, hurricanes, of course, wind, you know, tornadoes, uh, so then they've got a different they'll have the hazards listed and then they'll have like mitigation strategies. And the mitigation strategy is either going to be something that is existing or it's to mitigate what could be something that hasn't occurred yet, but you're going to protect yourself a little bit more. or it's going to be something that's existing that you can uh mitigate the impact like it like a house that is not elevated properly or and that's had repetitive flooding. So, there's like three strategies that you would have to mitigate that house that's constantly flooding. One would be to elevate it. One would be to acquire it for the town to uh obtain FEMA funding to acquire that property and then to demolish the

structure and relocate the family. Okay. Uh was that the end? Was that the last slide on there? Sorry, you got to stop me because once I get rolling on hazard mitigation, it's like I start I have a question for you. the at one of the um board of alderman meetings there was talk about a special project about flooding on the street. We were getting a thought it was a grant or something to Would that fall under this if that was

it? Absolutely would. Uh we started out there was a um resilience grant like two years ago that I worked with uh Surf City in Topsel Beach through I think three phases of it to get it started and to where the we were getting up to our shovel ready projects but we had all the engineering and all the all the data up to that point and there were I think we had identified 18 I'll say hot spots, but it's flooding spots throughout the town. And uh uh I think that Alice might have submitted some I'm not sure how many, but had submitted some for

Yeah, I thought that's what I was wondering. The one south, right? One day by the South. Yes, that's certainly one of Yes. So, I was wondering if that would be part of this mitigation project.

It absolutely would be. So any progress even to the point of doing the plan, identifying those areas and then um uh whatever whatever grants have been awarded and whatever progress has been made um to include that in the update. And there are there are some uh grant applications that uh if you if you've mentioned it in your uh plan that you get you score points for it. Some grants you can't get unless they are mentioned in your hazard mitigation plan. So

would another mitigation um thing be building codes to hurricane fortified structures or is that out is that fall into this or would that be outside that purview? I think that it would be it would be related. It's in response and I kind of I kind of uh because I think because everything is so closely related when you think about emergency management. Uh Kate and I just went to I forgot what the date was, 29th or it was on a Friday. Uh so I think it was like the 29th or whatever. Uh Kate and I had attended a um damage assessment team meeting in uh Anel County with Anzo County's EOC. Right. So had we had a full-time building inspector, that building inspector would have been there also. Uh other towns also had were represented by their fire department. Um I think uh Swansboro had their town clerk there, town clerk, per permit specialist, building inspector,

inspectors,

inspectors. Um it's really an all hands thing. It needs to be an all hands thing. Uh unfortunately, that's not always the case. Uh but when you're damage assessment is kind of when you think about hazard mitigation if I can stand up think when I stand up when when you think about hazard mitigation that's on the forefront that's on the pre kind of the pre-event thing where you're planning to you're preparing for whatever hazard it is how you're going to deal with it and then you have the event and then you have the damage assessment team that comes in. And I was telling Kate, what would be really cool if there was just enough of us and enough hours in the day and all the rest of it is to kind of connect that loop to where that when you have the planning, you have the event, and then you have the damage assessment team that whenever you're doing that damage assessment team, you're also looking at what you said you were going to do to mitigate it and what things worked and what things didn't work to where that you could adjust as you went along. and things that work that you made sure that it was carved in stone and that you absolutely did that. Things that didn't work, then figure out what didn't work about them and do it better. Does that make any sense?

Unfortunately, there's just there's not enough staff, there's not enough hours, there's not enough money, yada yada yada. You know, but in a perfect world, think about hazard mitigation and damage assessment in that event in the middle as a continuum where we're constantly learning lessons and constantly building a better mousetrap.

But would it then require like just to use a simple analogy like the three little pigs you build your house of straw but we have hurricanes here. So we found out after the first hurricane straw doesn't work. Would it then be tied into changing permitting or codes that you can't build a house of straw anymore here or is that part of that mitigation or you you could on the flood side on the building code the building code comes down from the international code council

and then each of the states adopt their version of what was passed by the international code council right so that's on the department of insurance side so so building inspectors report to Department of Insurance. Uh flood plane managers report to uh North Carolina Emergency Management. Right. So, we've got like two different branches. Although, um most everything in that flood ordinance is also in the building code. There is however an update and I just did this yesterday, day before yesterday. um American Society of Civil Engineers ASCE24 was just up was just updated in January of 2025 that's being incorporated and and talk about those things where we learn how to do things better. that's in that engineering ASCE24 document uh that was that was adopted in January of 2025 that is being incorporated into the ICC for the building code but that won't come out until 2027. it it takes so long to get, you know, for that review and adoption process and then once it goes through the ICC, then it has to go through uh North Carolina DOI and for the for the state to adopt it. But certainly for things like that for like if it was something just as an example like if if you paint your house red, hurricanes wouldn't hit it. Just I know that's ridiculous, but just say that we figured out that all the red houses, none of them were hit. So, we wanted to what you could do is make an amendment to the flood ordinance and say, "Okay, all the houses have to be red, right? We couldn't mess we couldn't we can't tweak the building code, but we can tweak our zoning ordinance and we can tweak that flood ordinance." Now that ASCE24

actually is has higher standards than what NFIP through which is where we got our flood ordinance is that those standards regarding flood etc uh coastal building coastal development are higher standards than what NFIP has in the state models flood ordinance. So then there might be some school of thought. Okay, well if the building code is higher, why can't we do that in the flood ordinance to where that the uh flood plane administrator is telling the contractor the same thing that the building inspector is telling the contractor? That would be my recommendation. Okay. Is everybody taking notes just in case I decide I want to retire soon?

Yeah, right. I'm not saying I am. I'm just saying, you know. All right. When we have hurricanes,

we've learned new things that we didn't that didn't work like the holes that in communication that we had after Florence and those things are going to be incorporated in our medic mitigation plans. And so that's that circle that we're going to make from finding out what worked and what didn't work because we found out a lot after Florence. But every hurricane's different. It comes in different ways. It affects different places and each time we learn a little more.

Yeah. I I'm kind of getting choked up because it's like you read what I deleted, you know? And and to me, uh I was home during lunch. I'll just tell you this really quick because I promised Kate that I'd get out of here. Get her out of here. And you didn't call you didn't call for I'm not a voting.

So, but I I was at home during lunch. I was at home during lunch. Uh and I had the news on because I'm a news junkie. And it was they were still doing the search and rescue which is part of damage assessment. I mean it's all we're all we're all like this right? If communication is so integral I mean it is 99.9% of your success in anything is is being able to communicate. and they had the sheriff's department up there and I I had it in my notes and I had the guy's name and everything else that I was going to tell you, but they had him up there and he's saying, "Yeah, we did this. We did this. We did this." Um because you know how fire and sheriffs are. They got to tell you everything they did, right? Just saying. And so, but then somebody, one of the reporters said, "Who was supposed to have gotten that message? Who was supposed to have sent that message? who was supposed to have received that message, right? And the guy just looked like a deer in the headlights. Walk away from the microphone. And I was like, dude, don't walk away. You know, and I felt like my heart pours for the public and for the citizens that are wanting an answer like how in the Sam Hill did this happen? and you know and and then also the and not just the deputies. They had to have so many volunteers that were looking for you know in their search and rescue as well because there's never enough police officers. There's never enough deputies whenever there's a crisis. There's never enough of us, right? And and I'm sure that that's something that they have not gone through, weren't prepared because they're still their mindset. They're like a German Shepherd.

They're still on the hunt and you're asking them why didn't why didn't they get a phone call? Who was supposed to have called and that meeting heated up if you saw it and if you didn't see it, I invite you to go back and watch that. That meeting heated up like just like that. They got on the defensive. They're they started getting angry because now you're not answering me. I've asked you repeatedly. Yeah. And I told you repeatedly. We're still looking for bodies, you know, and that's not that's not who we are. That's Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. in Florence. That was the that was the biggest complaint because we lost um cell cell phone tower and the uh internet went out.

Yeah. Well, now we have better technology. Well, and and it grows each time. So, that all has to be and we have a full-time dedicated IT person. Yeah.

And not your not your planning director trying to go fix things with paper clips and rubber bands. right now. So, and it makes a difference, but we don't when you're looking at that mitigation strategy, I want you to think we do not want to be responding to responding to a death, you know, that type of crisis thing. Let's go on the forefront. Let's go on the forefront and be proactive rather than reactive. And it's okay to look and see what happened to some of these localities up in even the flooding up in Asheville, you know, and you know, whenever you have camp counselors that they can't have a phone, well, that's a problem. And you don't have the you don't have the sirens cuz you didn't have the money for the sirens. Okay. What did you have money for? You know, we every single every single government, whether it's small towns, big cities, state or federal government, they spend money on stuff that they want, right? Often times neglecting what they need. And so, as you're going through this process of mitigation strategy, do a little mini needs assessment. you know, be your own detective and say, "Hey, do we have this? Do we need this? Has it worked in the past? What works better?" I mean, we had we had internet, we had broadband, but it was c, you know, it was cable. And the cities that had um fiber, fiber optics, not one single one of them lost communications.

You know, one thing I'm surprised you don't see any evacuation signs

make the bridges. I mean, you don't see anything that says hurricane.

Okay. No. Are are we finished with this subject and can move on to any discussion? Yes, ma'am. Is there any new discussion that you had to bring?

Yes. I'm sorry. Thank you. uh on right here. The only thing that I wanted to bring to your attention was uh I had received an email on June June the 17th that due to re reduced funding of to the CRS program. FEMA will not be requiring the annual reertifi reertification submittal this year for North Topsel Beach. The town is considered to remain in good standing in the CRS program as long as we continue to meet the CRS program prerequisites and implement your credit activities. My intent is to go ahead and pretend like I am going through a not anyway because when they've done this in the past like they did last year. Um they'll give you they'll give you like a pass, but then whenever they get back on their feet again, they're going to I I'll bet you dollars to donuts I'll get an email saying, "Uh, Deb, please send us all your records from August the 1st of 2024 to August the 1st of 2025." So I want to make sure that that document is there and archived whenever they do come back and get it. Um there's been a lot of speculation amongst my colleagues. Uh no one knows what the future for FEMA NFIP or CRS is going to be. Um, for those of you that don't know, and you should cuz you're on my planning board, and it's something I'm that we all should know, is that we have an ISO rating of a five. There's only one place that beats us, and that's Meckllinburgg County, and I don't know how many flood plane administrators they have. I'm sure it's more than one. Uh, but that results in a 25% savings to uh, NFIP policy holders in the town. Okay. So, so we want to do

whatever we can to continue to maintain that. If you're sitting up here at this planning board, and let me just say this and I'll shut up the rest of the night. Kate's saying you should have shut up 25 minutes ago. If you are sitting up here, it means that you are a resident of North Toppsel Beach and that presumably you're not and you might have other property that you're renting out, but you're not renting out the house that you're living in. Right? Some of you aren't eligible for uh CRS because you're in Cobra and that's a whole another kettle of fish, right? But for those citizens that are living here and and some may be on a fixed budget, right? That that 25% helps Right. So,

all right. Do I hear a motion to adjurnn? I move. Okay. Second. I'll second. All those in favor? I meetings adjourned at 710.