Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Sorry, it's 6 pm and I'm calling the Thursday, June 12th planning board regular meeting to order. Um, first order of business is the adoption of the agenda. Do I have a motion for that? I'll make a motion to adopt the agenda. I'll second. All those in favor? I. Motion passes. Um the next order of business is the approval of the April 10th regular meeting minutes. I'll make a motion to adopt the uh minutes from the April 10th regular meeting. Second. Okay. All those in favor? I There it is. Motion carries. The next is public comment. Do we have anybody signed up for public comment? Not on the form. Okay. All right. We're going to move on down to new business. Uh a sup25-00001 Osprey Crystal Shores golf cart beach parking. Okay, good afternoon everyone. It's nice to have a full house and all this participation. Uh SP 25 and I'll just say one. We'll skip all the zeros just for brevity. Is an application by uh Osprey and Crystal Shores Homeowners Association requesting a special use permit to establish designated parking area for bicycles, golf carts, and low-speed vehicles to serve the 48 uh residences of the two homeowners associations on Ospig Drive.

Uh they've the association the HOAs have signed a lease agreement with Jeff for the uh top portion of just above where the town has public parking directly in behind us. The property zoned R20 currently vacant. Um the surrounding zoning to the north is R20, to the east is R15, to the south is the Atlantic Ocean, and to the west is R20 with the uh town's public parking. Uh currently the site improvements are a crossover and the total area is total leased area is 12,100 square ft. Staff's recommendation is to approve. The uh camel land use plan classifies the property for the future land use as low density residential. The UDO table 4-1 parking lots principle are allowed uh by special use permit in all zoning districts except for Condi, which is why we're here. Um, and for a commercial plan review, I'm going to I'm going to delete that bottom part. I'm not sure how that got in there. Um, so included in the uh included with the staff report are the the submitted plans. There's a site plan prepared by Charles Riggs as well as the application itself and there's also a presentation that uh I think Greg Chapman put together um and she's not here tonight but we do have some members of the HOA that that

are here to speak on this matter. So, um they've received their camera permit and there's also uh two emails from both the fire chief and the police chief stating that they have no issues with the with the request there. Uh I've gone back and forth with NC DOT. NCDOT's comment was that if they developed within the right ofway, they would have to get a uh driveway application and a in an easement agreement. But in this case, the plans that we've reviewed are putting down gravel and designating kind of finishing it off where the golf carts can park to where that you don't have everyone just helter skelter. Um so there should not be a need for uh driveway permit NC do driveway permit or uh the down in that matter unless they decide to further develop that and make it more of a driveway. Uh, one of the one of the questions that uh, the NC DOT engineer had was um, would the town have an issue with the golf carts crossing over the multi-use path? That already occurs up and down and in some instances there's vehicles, you know, cars and trucks that are crossing over the multi-use path. So, a lighter weight golf cart should not be an issue. So, um, is there any question from the board, any of the board members before I, uh, invite them up to discuss their presentation? No other concerns. Okay. All right. Now, the present, is it possible? Can you get the presentation

on one of them? Okay, great. you know exactly what what page um sorry that's kind of loud 20 24 starts on 24 that's the print out if you want to just kind of go over that or discuss what you don't have to in as much detail or as little detail as you want we're here all night um good evening uh My name is Dave Damer. I'm the president of Crystal Shores HOA. Uh and I represent 48 families and their members here. Um I want to thank you for your your time and attention to this very small issue. Our interest is public safety. Uh we've already applied for a crosswalk in the same region that we're speaking of. We're trying to get our members from one side to the other side safely and for the convenience of getting access to the beach for their enjoyment. So, we're just trying to allow people to get their belongings, whether it's chairs and umbrellas and other things they carry with them over to the beach. We've uh received a lease of 20 years uh from Mr. Jeff and his uh land there uh for the use of golf carts and bicycles to be used uh on this piece of land, non-buildable land just to get over to the other side of the beach. Uh Mr. Jeff is in significant support of this effort. He actually wants to have this available if he does develop his property in the future and he has access to this. So, this is going to be used not just by our two HOAs and 48 families, but Mr. Jeff and whoever else he decides to invite as a guest. Um, it's a very simple plan. It's just

basically a very small plot that's going to be finished and graded with some weed retardant paper, some 57 gravel, and pictured framed in so we don't lose the rocks to wash out. that will also determine and donate where the golf carts are to go. And we have the private property on both sides of the road to go directly perpendicular across the road and do it in a safe fashion. With the addition of that crosswalk, it will be very very helpful because cars then will have to slow down and allow us the right of way. Um, this is not an area that's going to get high traffic. We don't even have that many golf carts in our development. Um, so there's going to be, you know, people, you know, throughout the week and weekends using this. It's only for our use and any guests have to be with us to use it. So this will not be a heavily traffickated area. Uh, we have discussed the plans with both the fire chief and the police chief and they have stated that this should not be any additional burden to their services which is important. So, I'm asking and and requesting the access from private to private property for use of golf cart and bicycle parking. The one thing that I would like I'd like to add that we did discuss and forgot to mention this evening u that you have a landscaper for the HOAs that's going to maintain that they're going to maintain. So, we will have trash pickup. We will have weeds taken care of. we will have this area looking good all times because the people who take care of our common areas will be then asked to take care of this area as well. Thank you. Yes, please. Um I was wondering about are you parking in place where you have to have a permit

or something or are they requiring you to have permits or saying you can park? So it's our private area. Okay, that we're leasing. So there will be no need, but we will be policing it on our own to make sure that people are following the rules that we have created, that they are going to be respectful to that land. Trash will be picked up and so forth. So we're going to designate where they actually park so someone's not just going off on their own. And again, there's a few people with golf carts at this time. We're thinking that once we get this built, more people will purchase a golf cart so they can get their things to the beach and not have to walk the half a mile or 3/4 of a mile to the beach. Okay, good. I I just have a a question. Where the yellow arrow is, is that where the uh crosswalk is where you're thinking of putting the crosswalk and Yes. It'll be just adjacent to that yellow arrow. So, our property actually extends down to the south there that's not actually seen. We're going to put gravel on our side, if you will, the non-beat side. So, the golf carts will have a place to go. Right now, there's a very goodized pothole that exists right there. Uh, but the golf carts will be delineated to go there and then we stay on our property and we can actually be perpendicular across the road. where the telephone pole is. It's the property that's just south of that telephone pole that enters the 50 foot parcel. So, it's 50 foot in the width, but it goes the length of the beach 123 ft. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Okay. And I really couldn't tell. It looks like there's a dune there. So, was there a crossover once you park the um golf carts to access the beach or do they have to walk down the multi-use lane to get to a crosswalk? Good, very good question. So, there is a u primary burm and a secondary burm.

These are both actually sand that's been pushed there. the actual dune that pre-existed is completely covered over with the land that has been covered with sand from the storm restoration. So, we actually have uh just two areas. We're planning to leave mother nature alone as most of the areas that we can. We don't want to touch the vegetation and other growth there. So, we're actually going to be walking around the secondary berm to get to the primary burm. And we presently have that we've been approved for a walkover beach access. Okay. So, in an ideal situation, you don't anticipate the golf carts traveling south on the multi-use path? No, they're just going to go crossing it perpendicular, sir. Okay. And they'll be and DOT will put the crosswalk in. Who's going to put the crosswalk in? Well, we made a request. So, you have to make a request with the DOT and you pay for the paint. So, we have that all ready to roll with this project. Yes, sir. Okay. It's it's really pretty simple, but they they have certain paint that's required and they want it done a certain way, and we have to follow those rules. Do you have um something in place to prevent other tourists or other people looking for a place to park? Golf carts. Because uh what we're have, and I'm glad you brought this up. So, our idea for the parking area is to have a very narrow area. Golf carts are four foot wide. So, we'll have this about five maybe six feet just so people don't hit the post. And we're going to have it roped off with posts. And then there will be a designated area for the golf carts to be parked. There's already a sign that's posted right at the end of where the proposed parking area is. It says private property. Only HOA members of Osprey, which includes the two HOAs for use. Prosecutors will be vi or violators will be prosecuted, excuse me. Um, so we have the sign there and that's

at the very top of the golf parking area. Then before you go over our beach access walk, we have the exact same sign that states the same thing, private use only. And then we have another sign that's actually from the beach side coming over. So someone's not accessing it from the beach. So they are clearly marked with those intentions. Thank you. So, if somebody brings a motorcycle or a bicycle and tries to park there, unless they're a member of your group, they will will you tow them. How how are you? So, because we're going to post the rules and they'll be posted at the bottom of those signs. We will be able to then contact if necessary police to have them removed. Hopefully, we won't come to that. Hopefully just one of the members will say, "Excuse me, did you see the signs there? Can you please be respectful?" Um, we're only expecting bicycles and golf carts. So, no motorized vehicles. There's not going to be any oil, gasoline spillage. It's just golf carts and bicycles. And we're going to put a bicycle rack so that the bikes know where they go. Thank you. But I don't think there are any more questions, are there? Well, again, I want to say thank you very much for your time this evening and the questions were very helpful. I'm glad we were able to clarify some of those issues. So, thanks. And Deb, much thanks to you. Thank you. We're going to need a um a motion to approve as staff. We had uh is Mr. Yes. Did you want to speak the next topic? Sorry.

So, I need a motion to approve. I'll make a motion to approve SU25-00001. Um as staff has written that compatible with the comprehensive plan. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any discussion? Okay. All those in favor? I I thank you. Motion has passed. Okay. We're going to move on to SUP 2500 two. The second application is by Mr. Chris Carrian uh for modification to the conditional use permit 10001 for the Palm Tree Market in Tikar. He'd like to keep the existing structures uh particularly the two decks with the tables and chairs uh and add additional parking. Um he's willing to work with the town and uh states that he is also trying to find a noise buffer solution. So the property is zone B1. It's on the corner of Newer New River Inlet Road uh opposite of Topsel Reef. Uh to the north the property zone R8, to the east R8, to the south is R5 which is Topsur Reef, and to the west is R10.

The uh site improvements are the convenience store, couple of wood decks, black top, and a shed. The size of both lots combined is a little over a half acre at 6277 acres. Staff's recommendation is to approve with conditions. The future land use map from the Camel Lane use plan classifies the property as mixeduse business. uh for the conditional use permit that was approved in 2010 in in the Palm Tree Market commercial site plan by Weston Lyle dated May 25th, 2010. The applicant then Sean Cook had obtained permits for the proposed development and passed final inspections in July in July 2010. Subsequently, front back patios, sound stage uh were not indicated on the proof site plan and built without permits. Handicap ramp was removed. Increased table and chairs increased the required parking and there's m uh no parking plan submitted. Uh the covered deck was enclosed without permits and was in violation of the town's flood ordinance. The second application that was approved for the property uh was a couple was a couple years ago in 2023 for uh the site plan which authorized the addition of commercial uh EV charging station. Now now here's uh 2.23 23 for commercial plan review. Commercial plan and design requirements. Development plans involving new construction or commercial space must be approved by the board of alderman before the issuance of the zoning permit. UDO article 4 allows alcohol uh beverages, packaged retail

sales, both as accessory and principal by special use permit. The convenience store was permitted by right. Retail uses require one parking space for each 200 square ft of gross area. Lounges require one parking space for each four four seat seats at a table. I wish they would say uh not a four topper. Is it a four topper? Yeah. Uh uh four seats at tables and one parking space for each two seats uh at counters or bars plus one parking space for each two employees. So included in the application are the submitted plans from the U CU101 as well as the site plan for the EV charging station. Um and the application as well as a little presentation that I kind of put together just to give you a visual and go through it pretty quick. [Music] So, can we put that up on both screens or what do you have? Uh, uh, down past that one and then go past his application. Yeah, that's it right there. made that a little bit bigger. Hopefully everyone can see that. So hopefully you can hear me. Okay, I'm going to turn around sideways. Uh can you bring it? Yeah, just a tad. So the plan in 2010, uh they had the existing 840 ft convenience store and uh they had the deck and proposed a metal roof on top. They were proposing a walkway with

portagons and a handicap access ramp and there was already an existing walkway in front. So as as time goes by there's these and you change owners and leases there's little incremental changes that happen through time. So, I had contacted um the owner in in had uh s had recommended or suggested that he could request a modification to the application to where that we could bring the site back into compliance. So the as as part of the ABC promotes the police department police chief does an inspection uh building inspector myself do inspections as well as the fire chief. So we're in the process of addressing all those and uh working with the owner management to um bring everything up to code. So on the next one, Deb, could I ask a question? Yes. So you're asking then for us it because it's not up to code now. The the decks were put in without permits. when you look at what is existing now just on the overview compared to what was approved by the board then and and Chris said Mr. Carrick had said that he would take that. He goes, "Dev, if you want me to take those decks out, I'll take those decks out." And I and so I had said, "Don't do anything until we take it before the planning board and the board of alderman." And when you ask

for a modification, whatever it is that you want to keep, you know, then say, you know, I'd like to keep the decks with the chairs. Previously, those decks were not there. Therefore, and the tables and chairs weren't there, so they didn't get counted in to what the required parking was. So, we would be voting yay or nay based on coming up to compliant like that they would be in compliance or right and that's what I had said. I I don't like I don't mind if those decks are there as long as he meets the parking requirement and as long as the building inspector says, you know, yes, these are built to code. And I did tell them that I may require that when we get through this, I may require a letter from an engineer where an engineer has inspected it and said and says yes, this meets NFIP requirements. So we would be saying say yay based on your final approval. Is that what you're asking of us? Um you would be making a my recommendation is is outside of it. I don't have the administrative authority to approve something that was outside of that initial conditional use permit or that initial um site plan approval for the EV charging station. So when Mr. Carrian says um you know I want to keep the decks, I can't approve those decks. I I can say whenever he says, "Well, Deb, I'll rip them out if you want." I can say don't rip them out. Hold on until we get through this process to see what you know what the planning board say recommends and what the board of alderman approve. To me it would be a waste of time, money and effort for me to say you need to rip it out.

you need to rip it out if it's something that the planning board doesn't have an issue with and that the board of alderman are willing to approve. Does that make sense? Because I'd make out and I'm just trying to figure out what you're asking of us then. So, we're either approving it or not approving it with conditions. Correct. Okay. Correct. Madam Chair, I'm sorry. Um, can you hear me? Yes. Okay. So, um under the ordinance um this permit application has been um is to be initially reviewed by the planning board and the ordinance language is that the planning board shall pay particular attention to consistency of the proposed use with the camel land use plan. The planning board's written comment shall then be presented with the staff report to the board of alderman. So, consistent kind of with what Deb was saying, um it might be advisable for the planning board to review what's before them, comment on it to the applicant, um and then pass those comments uh of the planning board's review on to the board of alderman. They are the uh final granting authority under the ordinance. Thank you. So, I had a question, Deb. Do we have a parking site plan that will show that they can provide enough parking spaces to bring it into up to code for what's required? At this time, we do not have a parking site plan and but but I do believe that he's got enough there's enough area for parking. We just need to identify it. Those parking spaces need to be identified. And then will they also be required to get a driveway

permit for the new site new parking site plan or because it doesn't really there really isn't a driveway. It's just one wide space. They don't need a driveway permit. Well, the bu the building was the building was built like in 1984. So, I'm quite sure that much of that asphalt that is currently there for the parking space has probably been there for quite some time. I'd have to go back through the and I do I went back through I think 2007 between three three different mediums looking at aerials of what it was like in 2007 and 13 14 15 19 to today. Okay. So your conditions are that or some of your conditions for approval are that they bring the parking up to sufficient parking spaces to meet code. Well, and and so when we were discussing the requirements, um I had estimated that about 16 parking spaces would be required based on uh what the actual number of bar stools are inside in the tables like the four top tables. So there's a table on the front deck, table on the back deck that are four toppers and then there's this one little like beastro table with two I don't want to say high chairs, but taller chairs. Um, so that one wouldn't really count, but uh currently I think there's one handicap parking uh space and nine and nine other parking spaces there. Okay. I know they also occasionally have food trucks. The beignet truck is there. Yes. Does that impact this at all? No, because that would be considered

temporary. Yeah. And we're and we're permitting those food trucks through a um mobile truck mobile food truck permitting process. So, we're track we're tracking those between inspections and planning department. But with the and that was one of the things that we had discussed. decided to ask Chris, you know, down the road or at some time if he had a restaurant or if he thought about putting a restaurant in there. Being a being a business owner and having a business that's at the north end of the the island, one, your your clientele is going to be, you know, kind it's kind of like a community bar where it's a lot of people that can walk there. Um, so you want to make it as um I guess attractive as possible. And certainly, you know, there's been there's been complaints. There's been noise complaints just like there were noise complaints uh back when Sean Cook had submitted an application. So we, you know, that's one of the things that we, you know, would like to address as well. And Chris has indicated that he wants to work with the town to uh minimize those those effects. Is there any parking in the back? There's a volleyball court in the back. There might be uh certainly an area for parking where the side as you first come in the road where where the big tall sign is. Uh there's certainly room for parking there. I I the reason I'm asking is if they're moving the handicap ramp to the back. The handicap ramp was there and I've been told that it was put back

there. Uh they've not called for a final reinspection on the initial non non-compliance issues that were identified during the inspections. I just was wondering if you have a handicapped person who came in and parked how they would get back to the ramp if the parking wasn't back there because the ramp is in the is in the back. You have the ramp in the front. Yeah, he's Oh, there's two. Yeah, he's got there's a longer ramp. It seems like a longer ramp in the front. That was the one. It says existing wood ramp. I assumed because it was existing and then it proposed that you were taking out the one in the front and No, no, no. No. If you want to can you slide through some of the pictures for me until you like get to one of them like the next one? Yeah. So, that's the this first picture I think is the most current GIS aerial in 2024. Um I should have it labeled there. And so you can see the uh access ramp Right. That comes up through. And then this is a little deck with a little four topper, five topper there. And then on the other side of that is um and I might have an overhead aerial that'll show that. Can you go to the next one? See if I have a That's the front. Yep. There we go. So that one was up to like January of 2018. January through March of 2018 for the aerial on the right. And so this was the ramp back. There were two ports here. So it was fairly consistent with what you saw in the 2010 site plan. And then there was a little handicap access ramp that went down off

that deck. Okay? And then this excess ramp coming up. Thank you. So get to So can you go to the next slide? Yeah, that one. There you go. So, this is the site plan that was turned in uh with the request for the EV charging stations. Here we go. Which were over in the corner. And um this kind of changed a little bit. We added a he added a handicap access over on this side, but there were there was additional parking identified. Um So that's how we got the EV charging station in. Um, is there just one charging station or two? One. Yeah. So that was one of the conversations that we had because I said, "Well, and I had added I had put on his tab four parking spaces of the EV uh charging stations." And he says, "Well, why four? I only have two." I said, "Well, because I just put two on your site plan." Told me you were going to do two. So, you know, the the point is is to be consistent. So, when there are changes that we can work with with the business owners and property owners um to come to get back into compliance. So, if you go to the uh

I think it's two more slides down. Yep. Uh one more. So, in the back, this is a better view of the back. So, you see the table and chairs and then you see the deck and the table and chairs. The deck and the table and chairs that has been added here. And there was not a handicap access ramp when I went out there. So, uh, if that's not been put back, that needs to be put back on the other side of it. On the other side of Okay. So, and then there's this mobile um, this trailer which is my understanding that it's used for like a sound stage whenever they have fans and stuff. So, even though that's temporary, that that may be need to be addressed if we're talking about sounds. So, Um, I included I included in the staff report the required uh parking. And so that kind of leaves the door open too, though. You know, you have a table in front, you have a table in the back. And if you had more room on those decks to have like two tables, you know what I mean? to kind of ex expand your seating area. This is kind of the time to say, "Okay, what's uh if I have to put in like two more parking spaces or one more parking space to get another, you know, table and four chairs out there, this would be the time to kind of maximize what your use of that space is." Does that make sense? Okay. What constitutes a parking spot? Would it have to be skull or can you just pet grass?

Uh that would be that's going to be up to the both planning board and the uh board of alderman. If you wanted to propose that it was um say natural grass or if you wanted to gravel it, I would recommend that you at least put like landscape timbers or something out there to where that it's identifiable to me whenever I want to come out there and have beer. And I and every all the other parking spaces are full to where that I'm not parking over in the neighbor's yard cuz I didn't see where I could park at your place. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. So, so one of the things I talked to Chris about also is um how initially the tiki bar was approved as a covered deck and then there's like this the wood panel halfwood panel that was on the side and Um, and then there's plastic sheathing that comes down, but it it's these little changes that one it by one that we're it was compliant uh in 2010 and we received a letter from an engineer certifying the roof and how things were built. Now, we've got all this other addition to that covered deck that has uh not been inspected or certified or or let's start out with the permitted part. And so, um we need to address that. One of the things that I had suggested, I had reached out to NFIP to the NFIP planner to ask if it was like three and a half walls, would that be considered an enclosed space? and they came they the response back was

well it's those walls become uh a violation from FEMA's freedom from obstruction because now we have those those solid walls there even if they're half walls they're considering those um violation of FEMA's freedom from obstruction so one of the things that I had recommended to a couple of things that I recommended and of course it'll be up to whatever you know Chris wants to do with it. But um if you may have seen louvers on ground floor enclosures, some of them are stained and look very very nice. Uh that would certainly meet the requirements and he wouldn't need a permit for that. Um, the other another option is how I keep throwing this stuff at you like options whenever we should have like this final plan coming through, but I'm just saying that all these things um there are solutions to any of these um non-compliance issues that have been brought up. So, if any of you have ever been to uh Buddies and Surf Sitting where they have the bar on the inside and then they have this little uh louver thing or it's like a barn door or something uh that either lifts up or slides over. I can't remember which one it is. And to where that the bartender is still on on the inside and can walk out and serve people that are sitting under the covered deck. And it's also like whenever they close for win for winter, all that is shut and closed and secure. So that's another concern. That's another concern. Um is helping Chris fix this to where that the space is also secure.

Okay, Deb, I have a question. Yes. Um, I I guess I'm trying to figure out what comes first and I'm wondering if we they shouldn't come to compliance first and then we'd have a clearer picture of what we would recommend to the board and what we wouldn't. Okay. Um, do we have the cart before the horse here? because I'm trying to picture what you you're asking of us, but yet on the other hand, I'm hearing, you know, well, they're not in compliance here. We may, you know, we can do this or we can do that or they can do this or they can do that. And so I'm wondering if it would be easier or more streamlined for them that we're not going back and forth because I guess I'm a little nervous about just recommending something or not recommending something based on potential, you know. Okay. Yeah. I have the same concerns that Terry has too cuz I assume they'll make all these adjustments and corrections and again compliance, but we don't really know that. Uh it's just sort of a good faith that they will and we're kind of approving something with the assumption that it will be in compliance. I'd like to say at least see some more plans that show that once what they do will make it in compliance. Okay. And uh they don't necessarily have to do everything but at least has show something where the parking is in compliance where some of these other issues are in compliance and then approve it at that point.

Right. I have a question. um pursuing those that way of thinking. Have no objection, but keeping that in mind in the interim if they were going to come into compliance before actually getting something from the board more helpful, would they be in any sort of bind operating the business without the 16 parking spaces? I think as long as we could so I guess two of the the identifying the parking spaces is one. I don't think that there's any I would not have any problems with the uh either natural either the natural grade or gravel and then doing the landscape timbers. and that that's a fairly inexpensive and relatively easy task to accomplish. Uh the parking space is divi is defined by ordinance by 160 square ft. So um and like I said, I'm I'm confident that he's got the area in a little over a half acre out there to identify additional parking. Um, I don't want to hold him up on the approval process and getting into compliance. Um, and this has I have no idea what his finances are, but being sensitive to any business owner, uh, I would like to be able to come up with a solution and move forward without holding them up. as long as they're as long as they're willing to work with the town. So, if it was a

matter of the boards and Chip, are you still there? I am. Okay. So, in answer in response to the board members questions, there we go. Sorry, I'm gonna look like an idiot walking around this podium. So, Chip, in response to the planning board members questions and concerns about making a recommendation before they've got like a solid what if and and I and I want to take responsibility for that because I'm the one that has added in the you know, Chris, you might you know, you could do a louver or things like this. The louvers wouldn't require a uh building permit. Uh but it would certainly help as far as securing the space. So if Chris said tonight, I'll take out those non-compliant walls or provide an engineer signature where they are breakaway or whatever, but one or the other. And or uh I'll take that out and I'll just put straight louvers in there and make everything 100% compliant. whatever it was that he would be willing to agree to, the planning board could still make a recommendation to the board of alderman based on those conditions that Chris agreed to tonight. Is that not correct? I think the planning board could. However, I would be concerned that there's got to be a lot more substantive proposal to appear before the board of alderman. I think my sense of where the planning board is is that it depends a lot upon what the applicant wants to try to do to come into

compliance. Um, and I think those decisions and those determinations are definitely going to have to be made by the time uh it reaches the granting authority which is the board of alderman. I think it's up to the planning board whether they want to agree to move this forward with some recommendations on which direction they would advise the applicant to go, but ultimately it's up to the applicant on what he wants to do. Right. Okay. All right. I've got a question, too. Um, it is coming. I mean, we're in peak season, so This is when he's got to capitalize on the business. However, how long are we going to is there a time frame that we're going to say this has to be brought into compliance by whatever whatever it may be, the engineers signing off on it, the the the walls, whatever. Right? It's it's still out of compliance and we need to bring it into compliance, but it's a very time sensitive situation, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And and I'll also say that this is his he's making a request to modify his application. I can't authorize him to do anything because this is part of that conditional use where uh 160D 403 or whatever it is that any modifications to an approved development plan have to go back through that approval process. Mhm. Right. So when he says, "Well, I'll tear out those decks." Okay. Am I authorized to issue a demolition permit? Yeah. You know, I don't think I'm any more authorized to I mean, possibly if

that was non-compliant, but for him to um fix something, anything that required permits would certainly have to go back before the this review process. So, if he's trying to fix things where the decks the deck that's there and he could provide a an engineer's letter for and then also show the um parking spaces you know, that are available. Um, like Chip said, I mean, that's up that's up to you what your level of comfort is. And you know, my intent was the board of alderman meet on July the 2nd before Fourth of July weekend. So any approval could be contingent on conditions and you could make your recommendation that way or you could say come back to us whenever you have a site plan. If you want if you want to keep the the tables then provide a site plan. And the other option is get rid of the get rid of the decks, get rid of the tables to where that you go back to where that you just have that covered deck. put that ramp if the ramp's there, but make sure that that ramp's there to where that it was like it was back in 2010 uh when it was inspected by everybody plus the EV stations that were approved. Okay. I guess my question is if we defer action till we get more information or an updated parking plan and knows what he's going to do with the getting compliance with the breakaway doors and so forth. Can he continue to operate during I don't want him to lose fun be able to operate. I mean this is the time you can make some money. I don't want them to be to we have to shut them down.

But by the same token, I don't feel comfortable approving this without some more assurances than we have right now. Okay. So how um to know what's the background I haven't met him where you from and buying that and moving here. What's the story? So I've lived on the island had a home here for 26 years. So I'm in Dolphin Shores. I was the first home that was built in there. Okay. I have five daughters and uh that Yeah, these are my two youngest. So, I originally bought the place to have good ice cream. Okay. For them to walk to some place to have a, you know, a familyfriendly event. Now, this the the gentleman that was originally running it for me when we bought it 2016. I assume he was going to take unfortunately he he made some business decisions and he had to go away. And uh so next thing I know, I had another gentleman come in and take it over. So, I haven't run it from when we originally purchased it. I had people subleting it from me and these enhancements to the property or these decks were done. I assume they were there before I purchased it. So, it's been they've been there a while. Uh so, I just assumed and we had about two years ago we went through being approved and they came in the inspector and all that and everybody approved us. So, when I submitted this one, I assumed you know was just going to go through again. I didn't realize there was all these concerns. So, uh, you know, the EV charger and then the, uh, alcohol, you know, board and all that. So, this sort of came as a surprise when Deb said, "Hey, we got some problems here. Uh, I know we've got noise issues and we're trying to deal with them." And that's what I was going to ask you guys, what

we'd be allowed to do to plant trees or do something, but I also don't want to block their view. So, you know, it's we're trying to be family friendly. We're trying to, you know, cater to the locals. It's a great little store that they can go there rather than drive five miles to the food line. So, we're trying to be friendly here. So, I'm not sure and we'll do whatever you got to do. I'll put in the lure walls or whatever, but we live in Raleigh. So, uh I have a general manager that's running it and um so I haven't been that involved up until about a year and a half ago, I'd say. So, I'm not here dayto day, but you know, whatever you guys need me to do, I'm happy to, you know, make it problem. Okay. Well, Dave, who would make the decision? Is that something that the police chief or the fire chief would I mean who would make the decision as to whether he could continue to operate or it would be you that could make that decision that he could continue to operate in non-compliance? I would have to ask the town attorneys that question. You know, my focus is to work with them to get him into compliance. And so whether or not the town wanted to step in and say you're to me the things that are to me the non-compliance issues are things that can be fixed. You know what I mean? Um yeah and and and they're relatively easily fixed. uh and he's they've been in business for years in non-compliance that I'd hate for him to have to stop. But but the same token,

I don't think we're doing a good precedent if we allow somewhere to continue in non-compliance. Otherwise, why have compliance? I I think that we're I think we're doing our job if we're trying to work with property owners to come into compliance whether they're a small business owner or a homeowner. Deb, I have a question in regard to the parking. Is that an increase so they can have more people within the facility? that is strictly for that's a a zoning that's a typical zoning thing to mechanism to uh come up with the number of required parking spaces based on uh either a restaurant and there's there's a table that's in the UDO whether it's a I want to say bowling alley that's not one of them but my I'm having trouble thinking of uh the long list of items that are there that um like if it's a beauty shop how many chairs or how many parking spaces that you need to have. If it's a restaurant or a bar, it's based on the number of tables and chairs, bar stools that you have. Well, I'm asking because if we have an issue of sound that people have already complained about, right? If we're if it's adding more parking, then I have to assume you're going to have more people and you're going to have more sound issues. Do is that a concern of ours? Do we care? Well, I mean, part of me thinks we should because it's the whole we have to take care of the whole town, but on the other hand, I mean, where does that line come? Well, I think that's a very valid point. If you have uh a deck with table and chairs in the back and in the front, and then you have a trailer where a live band is playing ampl amplified music, then you know, you know where the sound's coming from. So

the question is how do you address that in prior to prior to and part of the conditional use permit uh I want to say 2010 around that time frame u the town adopted the original language in of sound and noise and the ordinance was no amplified sound. Right? So a radio is amplified sound. The moving box that you take to the beach is amplified sound. So the town tried to um put measurements on that, you know, bring it up to today's standards of u audio meters and whatnot to where that you can have sound, you know, and what sound is reasonable during certain times, right? So, so the police have been out there when they have not exceeded that sound limit. The police have also been out there when they have exceeded that sound limit. So that responsibility falls squarely on the owner to make sure that his establishment is taking measures to where that they are not becoming a nuisance and that that sound does not increase above that level and to continue working and to continue working with the police. Chief uh Chief Younger is not here, so I'm not going to put words in his mouth. But to me, it's um I feel a responsibility to work with a a business owner for the investment that they have rather than to try to make it harder. You know what I mean? So certainly addressing the sound issue is one. In an ideal world, it would be nice to have a neighborhood bar that people could go within walking distance and not

driving and go down and have a beer and watch the game with her friends and, you know, walk back home. Um, I don't think it's reasonable that it should sound like a rock concert at 2:00 in the morning in a predominantly residential area. And I even though that particular area was zoned commercial, you for some of you that may remember whenever Joe Rodriguez had it, he had requested to resone it from uh commercial to the um R8 I think it was to where he could develop it with the duplexes that are there now. Right. So, um, but around outside of that circle or that square rectangle, outside of that rectangle block, here we go. You had Topppsel Reef. You have duplexes all the way around. You know, he's surrounded all the way around with with those duplexes. So, it has been predominantly residential. I think a big this island up this way. Even Topsel Reef has changed a lot and we have less locals. It used to be I mean we've owned since 2006 when we first got there that bar was a guy with coolers. Mhm. Um and it was locals pretty much. Um, with the advent of all these new people moving in, all these buildings going up, they're coming in and want to change what was there. We had a bar. I know what that's like. Um, ours was in Surf City. However, the

bar was there before condos went up and they had to make a happy medium and it was a time thing. However, it was where if you got so many complaints, you had to turn it down, turn it off. You paid a band. But it's it's a it's a it's a way we're all h going to have to coexist basically I guess everybody as far as the noise concerned as far as these items. I'm wondering how where we are in the process. Has um the inspector looked at anything? Well, this is this is an opportunity. The only thing that staff has right now or the police chief has right now is the noise ordinance that was adopted. So in this when you look at this case if noise is an issue identifying you know the the times or meth or methods times that it's an issue and also how can we mitigate that and that mitigation or however you come up with that mitigation can be a condition that's placed on his modification his request for modification. So if he says if he says you know for me for me to be and I'm just talking hypothetical here if he says you know I really need to keep these two tables just to break even right you know if I have you know this these chairs just to be able to break even what do I need to do do for that and he and he says you know

I'm willing to whatever with regards to amplified sound live bands hours that the music's playing or what the levels are, right? I I guess and again, if that's if that's a concern, I I keep coming back to that. Um I I I'm on both sides of the fence here because I do understand a business and the need to keep things moving, right? But without a a a specific site plan to know what is actually being done and what we would recommend like even just to be able to see to say, "Okay, they're going to do ABC D." And if they do that stuff, then we would we would uh recommend that the board of aldermen approve this or we wouldn't if they didn't get that done. But I I just feel like we're kind of Yeah, it's just it's there's nothing specific. It's kind of vague and I'm a little uncomfortable with the vague. I ask you um because this was just brought to my attention. I had really no idea. Just the other I mean this came to me and said, "Chris, we got some issues we have." I was like, "Okay, so if you give me a couple weeks and say, "Hey, get this done, this done, and this done." And I guess that's what I for me personally, that's what I'm thinking is that if you as the owner say, "Okay, we're going to do I'm going to do this, this, and this. This is what I'm looking at for this. This is what I'm looking at for that." And then come back to us and say, "This is what I've got accomplished. This is what we're still working on." And it's something specific

in a site plan that we can point to that just keeps everything above board and there's no misunderstandings or anything like that going forward. I think I can do the walls. I can put in more parking. Right now they just park on the grass and there's plenty of parking usually. It's not been a problem. Right. But see all of that's vague and I get it. I get what you're saying. That's worked. But I I don't know. And the decks are only a foot off the ground. I mean, it's not like somebody get hurt. It's the basic things that we can have panic rather quickly. Is it possible to put something together as a site plan and and decide what you want to do, what kind of doors or whatever the breakaway walls and then come back before us next month. Yeah. The the louvers wouldn't even require a permit. Oh, or well, whatever. See, and that's one of the reasons why I had why I was trying to help him out because I'm looking at having that open and the security of it. And to me, whenever it's open, it's not secure. Right. Right. So, the louvers meet NFIP requirements. Um, and and they they're not an obstruction to uh they're not a they're not a violation of FEMA's freedom from obstruction. It's kind of like a double negative in my brain. Uh, so they meet that and they don't require a permit and it would be able to help him secure that. That's the only thing that I can come up with or think of other than it going back to a covered deck, which is what was to begin with. How how they've kind of pieced that in there is I think that there was an attempt to try to make it a little more secure without putting solid walls and making a, you know, a complete building out there, right? So, they had the plastic, you know, plastic hanging down and then they had the walls, you

know, at the bottom. And like I said, I checked within FIP to say, you know, if they had three and a half walls, um, would that be considered an enclosure? And they were and they were like, well, it's still a violation of freedom of obstruction. So, I've I've been trying to work with the NFIP planner on how can I help him be in compliance without having to rip all of it off, all of it out. You rip all of it out and it's back to it's not a secure space, which becomes a huge liability. Right. But I think if if I understand, if I may interject, if I understand what the board is struggling with, it comes down to the fact that BE's proposed movers. Does that mean the applicant is going to do that? Yes. You've got you have you're not in compliance because you have tables but not associated parking spaces. If this is put then to the board of alderman, is the applicant okay if the board of alderman says get rid of the tables or do you want to put the parking spaces in and keep the tables? Right? I think these are the matters that should be um memorialized in a document that then is put forward as a plan that then the board particularly the board of alderman which is the permit granting authority can approve or disapprove. Okay. I would advise the board of alderman right now that there's just not enough information to do anything about this and that I think is that sums up our concern as well. So Dave, do we need to make a motion to defer this item to we get more specific details on what actions will be taken to get in compliance? Can could I request a five minute break to talk with Chris outside? Is that possible?

Chip, is that okay if if can I request a fivem minute recess to talk to That's up to the chair. That's up to the chair. Okay, you can have your five minutes recess.

Call the meeting back to order. Okay. So, we also have somebody else signed up, but I'll let uh Chris uh we have somebody else that signed up to speak also on this matter, but I'll go ahead and let uh Chris address the planning board. Yeah, turn it on. Turn the hit that little button. There we go. Um so, after just discussing this with Deb was certainly I really want to work with you guys. I mean, this the the local it's such a staple there. Um, whatever we can do to accommodate. I didn't know those decks were not in compliance since we had it inspected two years ago, I believe. So, this is all somewhat new to me. I didn't even know you couldn't have walls in that uh covered deck. I mean, we I will certainly make it a point to take those out. Um, if we put additional parking areas for people to park in, there's not going to be any more people. I don't believe it's a lot of foot traffic. It's a lot of locals just walking over there. So, if we add six more parket spaces, if that what makes us compliant, we'll certainly do that. We'll take the walls off the if you can give me a few weeks to get it done, I'll get a contractor to come in and be beautify it. If you need me to take the decks down, I'm happy to take the decks down, but I think I'd rather keep them. They're not they're 8 by8 and then the backside. It's not much bigger than that. I'll also remove the trailer that where the live bands play on. We'll get that out of there. So, I'm willing to work whatever you guys need and uh and try to work on the noise. I I gave strict instructions that, you know, at 10:00 we got to get that thing down. So, people are going to be there till noon on midnight or 1, but I I'll make sure that we enforce this and I'll try to put up a sound barrier in the back. My other alternative would be just to sell the property and, you know, develop it. So, that's and I know a lot of the locals would say, you know, we want a store there. We want to be able place to go

and I think it's it's been great for my kids to grow up and walk down there. So, we really want to work with you folks. Just let me know, you know, give me some time. And uh obviously this is the busy season. We employ about nine or 10 people. So, they'd lose their jobs if we and there's not many options here on the island. So, you know, that's what I will do. Any any questions for Chris? Okay. Thank you. We have somebody signed up. If you'd like to come up and speak, please state your name and address. Mr. Anders, 136 Seagull. Uh, first off, start out like I mentioned a while ago, the rumor of everybody saying that we're our problem and everything. We want to destroy the bar. We want to get It's It's false. We do not want the bar destroyed or change or done away with. Okay, we understand it. Now, first off, any actions by anyone on this island that would make things better, look better, and improve the areas, we know we're all for that. Okay, but again, we have to follow policies. We have to follow ordinances. We have to follow town permits to make sure everything's good to go. Okay, we all understand that the plan that he's proposed for the uh market that you've seen right here and stuff like that. Um trees and bushes, they're not going to hindrance any noise that comes across that or live music or something like that at all. Looking nice, it's going to probably look a lot nice. I mean, the improvements that he has on his plan, we're all for making it look a lot better around there instead of what it was. Again, Susan, you know for a fact it's changed drastically around there. Um, people that live around there, like Larry has been here for 10 years, and he said he just loved to go sit there and

have a beer. He said things changed 18 months ago when when certain two people came in to manage the place or try to manage the place. Um, they have no respect for people around there. They their attitudes are terrible. One of them left, one of them's still there. And the more things happen, the more the worse it gets. Okay. And not to contradict Chris a lot, but there is nights, Saturday nights, karaoke and some other nights, there's cars parked all over that area back in there. Okay. So, and it's locals, too, of course, renters and stuff like that. We understand that. Um, the biggest problems we do have is like I said, the noise problems. Okay. Um, we have bass drum. We have a bass comes every Sunday. A bass guitar and a guy comes out. That bass is so loud you could hear it all the way down to Oyster and sometimes at the other end live bands put in the backyard. I mean just blaring away heard all the way to River. People from River has actually called the police. So you know it's not just everybody's pointing to the people live directly behind him. It's all around the area. B everybody knows a base and a drum carries through a building. Okay. Um so that's got to be worked on. It's got to be understood. Um we we like I said um there's it's not just Seagull, it's not just a new apartments. It's people across the streets, people down the street, people in River Road that that are again, we just want things turned down. We want to kept to a reasonable understanding. We all can get along together. Um we all live together up here most of the people that doing stuff like that. Um the music's just got got to go down. like tonight karaoke. It's It's unbelievable the microphone. It's like a carnival at the state fair. The way you can hear the the microphone talking and screaming and hollering and stuff. Okay. Citations wise, I've asked

the police to give me a run. 18 months, 10 citations, over $4,000. That's that's that's a nuisance right there when you have in a year and a half that many citations written. That must because of just not wanting to work with the people around there. again. Turn the music down, please. Okay. Um, like I said, the back door at one time Chris did did do that. I I saw things that Chris had said before. It's it's right back to being left open. You know, it's it's it's just like I I I I feel from Chris. I've talked to him one time in my backyard before. I feel that he's coming, but the other side is the person running the place. It's it's not not Chris's it's not Chris. It's him. Okay. Um, so I I mean there is workable things. I think Chris knows it and I know it and everybody else knows it here. We can all work to ensure that thing no that little 8 foot deck they put bands out there. Why? Inside everybody knows it's 10 by 10 or whatever in that little area there. Okay. There is nights I think tomorrow night this little guy got a guy with a guitar come inside. We're fine. We're fine. There's one one bar keeper. Close the door at 10 o'clock. It's fine. Everybody around there is tolerable. We understand it and we all can go go to bed. But there's other times it's just absolutely it's more like a roadhouse than it is a tiki bar if you look at the way it's trying to be run right now. Okay. Lighting. Um I don't know for some strange reason two weeks ago there's a string of lights that went down the back of our property and shined right up into our houses. It's like why? You know, the common sense with thing is turn them back in toward the inside. If people want to, you know, they move the cornhole things back to our back property line. Kind of tells you right off the bat what's going on, you know, and then the lights pop up. It's like,

you know, it's, you know, I I think Chris wants to work with us, but I don't think the the management wants to work with us. They work the opposite way with us. And we do not want to close the bar down. A lot of those folks around there won't go back to the bar anymore. They used to go and they want to go back to sit on the porch to sit in there and have a little beer, not have to listen to just blarry music. Okay. Examples are good. 8:30 in the morning, individual shows up, opens the bar up, both doors, opens the window up, turns music up, and goes inside to the market. The bar doesn't open till 12:00. You know, it's just a constant wanting to, hey guys, we don't want you here. We're going to run you away. You shouldn't come here in the first place. You know, it's like instead of saying, let's just all get along. There's answers to our question, our our problems and stuff like that. And I hope Chris will work with us and all come together and, you know, he can he can have a really nice bar, nice area over there. And hopefully the people will start that used to go tell me is that hey they go back over let's go over to have a beer. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I have an I have another question for the attorney. If we decide not to make a recommendation tonight, does that preclude the board of alderman? Say Chris goes and gets a um a site plan and has it ready, maybe even does a few things before the the board of alderman meeting. Does that preclude the board of alderman taking this item up or do we have to make a recommendation for them to move forward? U Madam Chair, that's a really good question. uh the ordinance says that the

request shall be initially reviewed by the planning board. So the question is does this constitute initial review? Um you could argue that it does. Uh you could argue the planning board could argue that it doesn't and you want to hold it here. Um I suppose that's you know really kind of up to the planning board. If the planning board decides to take no action, if they don't object to this moving forward, then um it could go uh it could go to the board alderman and this could constitute a review, I suppose. Thank you. I'll make a motion that this request for conditional use permit be deferred until such time that the applicant can prove that he will be in compliance or can prove approve or can prove to the planning board he is in compliance at this time but is free to present his plans to the board of alderman for their approval on July 2nd. Does that make any sense? I'll second. Okay. Is there any discussion about it? Any more discussion? Did that make any sense, Chip? Yeah. Yes, sir. Okay, I think that's fine. Okay. All those in favor? I I Okay, motion passed. And is there any more discussion about anything tonight?

Okay. Do I hear a motion to adjurnn? I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All those in favor? I I thank you. Meeting adjourned at 7:27.