Board of Aldermen - Regular Meeting

Let's go ahead and call the meeting to order. Um, the purpose of today's meeting is basically just a budget workshop. Uh, we're not going to be making any decisions today. Um, and so the idea will be that, um, I'll turn this over to Alice here in a minute, uh, to have her people present, which I think is the protocol we're going to use, and then to keep it under control here, um, the protocol that we'll have here is, um, somebody will make, let's just say Wayne comes up to make a presentation. He'll make a presentation and then at the end of the presentation, we will go, we'll start the first one maybe with Mark and we'll go across for comments and the next we'll go back and forth. That way, we've got kind of a, you know, a way of handling this thing. Um, we've had free-for-alls in the past, led by me, I think, in the past. So, so with that, I'm going to turn it to this. Is that a fair comment, Connie? Who tends to ask the most questions in a budget meeting? Yeah, I know she's looking at me. Anyway, Alice, um, it's all yours. Thank you.

Thank you, mayor. Good morning, everyone. Uh, good morning, department heads. I passed out to uh the board a uh budget overview and economic outlook. This is something that I typically present uh to the board on the initial meeting each year. Um in preparation for this meeting, which is essentially the kickoff um we prepare to you a proposed budget that gives you an outline of what's been prepared, what's been worked on specifically with what department heads have been requesting. It gives you a a picture of what everything looks like initially at first blush. Uh the proposed budget we're presenting today has been prepared with conservative approach uh to revenues and expenditures which allow us to continue to deliver highquality services to residents and visitors alike. Um Ricky, can you um There you go. Thank you. uh expenses have been compiled by meeting with the department heads as I uh noted who will be presenting their department requests throughout today. The main objective today is to listen to department heads requests, ask questions and provide feedback. It is imperative that we receive feedback from the board of alderman so we can first and foremost ensure that priorities discussed today are aligned with the current board and incorporate board feedback into the budgets that'll be presented in the April workshops. And you can see on the screen we've outlined budget preparation priorities.

Can I just just real quick we don't have revenue forecasts in here. Correct. Not at this this we don't have we don't have a consolidated look at we do um there there's a revenue forecast going on the assumption of the numbers that we got from Wow County. So I'll be talking through that as I go through this. It's not it's not in the spreadsheets. It's in the form. Yeah. The spreadsheets that have been sent out to the board yesterday show the look of what everything is with what like I said what the department heads have requested. Okay. Uh we have not ran any models yet as far as revenue neutral which I know those the board um wants to see. Those will be at an upcoming meeting. Okay. Thank you.

So the budget pri uh preparation priorities uh that we've outlined for the 2627 proposed budget are as follows. Remain fiscally sound with a healthy fund balance. Continue to provide and enhance public safety to residents and visitors. maintain a high level of preparedness to respond to and recover from emergencies. Continue to support and balance the demands of new residential development. Continue to provide high service levels and quality of life amenities, our beach, addressing infrastructure needs and capital improvements. The budget was prepared in accordance with North Carolina General Statutes and the North Carolina General Government Budget and Fiscal Control Act revenues and expenditures. In mid-March, we received initial fiscal year 2627 taxable value projections uh as of March 2nd, 2026 from Enslo County. Uh I just want to note too that these will change as they go through the appeal process. Um so we will not know uh where we finally land until later in the budget process. And I will also um you know feedback that I got from uh in a meeting last week with county commissioners president were they don't expect to set their tax rate until they will not know until June. So you're not going to know until late on in a process where they stand. North Topppsel Beach receives uh right now they're showing a um 38.3% increase from last year in the projections. The total assessed value is 2.4 billion and excluding motor mo motor vehicles 2.38 billion. This equates to uh 10.2 in gross uh levy revenue at 43 cents per $100 valuation. For budgetary purposes, we used a 96%

collection rate uh which is 9.8 million levy. uh general fund which as you know it's allocated uh between general fund uh which is 5.9, capital improvement fund which is 12, 1.6 and shoreline protection fund 30 which is 2.2. So that's an initial breakdown. Highlights include uh general fund revenues estimates do not utilize prior year reserves, meaning fund balance, and with a conservative assumption such as not accounting for grants other than what is currently awarded, no increase in occupancy tax over the actual receipts to date in fiscal year 26, and no built-in increase for local sales in use tax. The total general fund revenue estimate is 11,17,676. General fund expenditures are estimated in the same amount which is a balanced budget. Based on current needs recognizing inflation and includes a 78,83 contingency as of right now. Again, this is early on and these numbers are all subject to change based on uh board feedback. Personnel costs account for over half of the general fund. As mentioned, department heads are presenting their budgets today. Uh we have incorporated these requests to provide insight as to how these will affect the budget to be consistent across the organization. 10% was utilized until we received feedback today. the orbit retirement match. We did get that in uh which is earlier than prior years. So luckily we had that to plug in which is 15.17% for regular employees and 17.10% for law enforcement staff and that has been incorporated. We do not have group insurance renewal rates nor all other insurance renewals at this

time. Some examples of those are workers compensation, property, vehicles, equipment. A 10% increase assumption was utilized for initial budgetary purposes. Uh for health care though, we do think that 10% uh increase is going to be uh realistic based on feedback that we got from them early on. Okay. The uh the proposed fiscal year 2627 budget reflects an overall increase of 17% or $1.6 million over fiscal year 2526 total operating budget. Looking forward, the proposed budget provides a financial plan and foundation that reflects our collective goals and priorities as a town. If we work together and strategically plan, we will continue to build upon the many projects and programs that have been initiated. Mr. Doug Carter uh with the Carter Associates. He will be attendance at the April uh meetings that are scheduled to review and provide the board insight as requested to the five-year plan and modeling. Uh staff in the next coming weeks will also be running as requested revenue neutral rate models along with other scenarios. Um and once staff is running those models, those will be reviewed by Carters and those will be discussed further in April. These models and forecasts will prepare the board to make informed budgetary decisions. I would like to express my sincere gratitude and thanks to the to staff, the department heads um who have helped in putting together this initial budget and who continue to work on the budgetary process. So that's all I have for right now and we'll turn it over to

just real quick. Wait, which which one of the spreadsheets that you the ones I'm looking at? I do not see anything that that is a summary of revenues. Which one is it? Look at governing body, administration, it planning, inspections, public buildings, insurance, retired police, police, public works, street sanitation, recreation, fire committees, and non-EP departmental in the in the list of spreadsheets. It's not we use the table to create this pie chart. I can send that to everybody in table format. I got nothing to compare, you know, got nothing to compare to. So, if you could send us that. Okay. Because when I was looking at this, I was only looking at expenses, which I guess is going to be our focus today anyway, right? Sure. Okay. So, for planning purposes, we're going to be looking at

because right now, what what she's got here includes the spreadsheet that you're going to be showing us. Um, the calculations and stuff in terms of revenues and things. Yes. I mean, I have I did not include that in the spreadsheets that were emailed, but I do have a revenue spreadsheet that again that the pie chart was created off of. That's if you could just send us to after the meeting is fine. Right. Okay. That's fine. No, we're going to be focusing on I think expenses today anyway. I just I when you we were talking about when I read this thing from Alice, which is normally what we do, I couldn't tie it back to anything you sent me. So Okay. Okay. Thank you. I will send it in format. Thank you. Thank you. The number the numbers that I talked about tie into the um Excel spreadsheets. Yes. That were prepared.

Right. There's no re we didn't get any revenue from it. They didn't get the revenue table which I will send. This is a revenue. Okay. So this this is very good. If I had the revenue sheet, I could tie it back. But when I was looking at there was nothing there was nothing on the revenue side, which I think is just as important to find out what we're because and I think that and we all in we don't need it today. Okay. We don't need it today until we go through this stuff. Okay. All right.

No worries. Um so after the department heads present um we also will get feedback um on the agency requests outside agency requests for funding. We'll talk about those um but again we'll turn it over to staff. Um who wants to go first? Any volunteers? The guy with the gun. Okay. The fire department takes it all.

Good morning. I have handouts if I may approach. All right. So, I've kept my requests uh quite simple this year, actually. Uh my main focus is going to be on a pay plan. The majority of my requests outside of the pay plan are basically just administrative changes. As you can see in the summary here, we're going to be looking at the beach ambassador line item or the beach patrol line item. We're going to increase investment opportunities for employee training. We're going to adjust our gas, oil, and tire budget obviously for the things that are happening around the world right now. We're establishing funding funding for community outreach programs. Um and our standard requests for two vehicles and capital outlay are present as they usually are. And then of course the large ask is for a department pay plan. And I have some reductions this year also. Next slide please. Our beach patrol expenses. Uh I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here because the majority of my involvement last year's budget and previous budgets was that I just made recommendations and the chief

took them forward. So I'm not sure exactly how the beach patrol budget ended up where it is. It was historically at 14,000 since its inception. We've been doing the beach ambassador program for I think four years now and it's always been at 14,000. Last year it got reduced to 12,189. We've never run out in that line item. However, we have vehicles that have to be maintained as part of that program. And if we hire additional beach ambassadors, which I know a lot of people like those beach ambassadors, we want to make sure that we can pay them. So, I'd like to return that to its historical level of $14,000. Again, this is an administrative change. I think it's a total of about $1,800. So, not a huge big deal there. Next slide. Employee training. Uh we we have always had trouble finding a place to go shoot and shooting is obviously part it's not only a requirement but it's al obviously an important part of the job right all of our guys need to be very well trained we entered into I don't want to say a contract we have an agreement with Sanctum which is a range over in Holly Ridge I don't know if any of you are familiar it's a very nice facility better it is yeah better than anything that law enforcement in this area currently provides. Uh they've agreed to allow us to shoot out there for a year at $3,500. Incorporated in that, we get training from them. We get two days a month that the range is just hours. We can go out there and shoot anytime we want. We've been utilizing that. And so I'd like to build that 3500 into the training budget. Additionally, you see 55,000's been added into that budget for the pay plan, and we'll talk about that when we get to it. Gas, oil, and tires. When I initially sat down with the town manager and the finance manager to talk about our

budget, I said, you know, I think our our gas, oil, and tire budgets going well. And then I watched the news a couple days later and our gas, oil, and tire budget's not going so well. So, I'd like to put about 6,000 extra in that just to give us a bit of a buffer. We're currently 75 expense 75% expended and we've got three months to go. That level that it's at right now was set around the time of COVID. So, it was already for about a $3.50 per gallon cost, but now we're creeping up past that. So, an additional 6,000 in gas, oil, and tires. uh departmental supplies. I've listened to you and I've listened to the town manager. I understand that you're interested in having community outreach events and this is where it was recommended that I put funding for those community outreach events and I'll just take a minute to throw a shameless plug in here. We're having a community outreach event May 15th at 4 PM. It's basically a police week events. We're going to showcase our everything that we're capable of and give everybody an opportunity to meet the officers and see what we have. So, $3,000 that's basically just to pay for marketing materials, um promotional items, little trinkets to hand out to the children. We even got uh children's fingerprint kits so that parents can keep a record of their children's fingerprints, DNA, and things like that so that if there's ever a problem, child goes missing, they have something to to hand off to authorities. Capital Out last year, we're we were at 145,000 and change for two vehicles. Again, I wasn't directly involved in that. I'm not sure what the what the reason for that is. What I've found now is that a lot of the dealerships, the the state contract dealerships that are selling police vehicles, they're

upfitting them somewhat to give you a package deal and the upfit cost has gone down quite a bit as a result. They're using state contract upfit parts and they're passing those savings along. So, I'm hopeful that I'll be able to find two of those vehicles. As I discussed when I requested a second vehicle two boarding board meetings ago, uh if we don't stay at two vehicles, we end up at quite a bottleneck. And and what happens later is we end up buying four vehicles or three vehicles and then when those age out now we have a bunch of vehicles that are deadlined or close to deadline or not in good shape that we have to replace all at once. So I'd like to maintain that two vehicle per per year purchase. So, we're at 130, which is a reduction of about $15,000 from last year. All right. The department pay plan. This is the big big ask. I shouldn't say big big, it's medium big. So, I've thought a lot about how to do this. And I've identified some problems. And the the number one problem in law enforcement in general right now is that there aren't people lined up to be police officers. When I started in law enforcement, if there was one opening, you had 10 applicants. Now, if there's 10 openings, you get one applicant. And so, we have to do everything we can to attract officers to come out here in the first place. And that's difficult to do because we're small and people know we're small. People know we don't have a high call volume. And a lot of people when they get in law enforcement, they want the running, gunning, kicking down doors and all that kind of thing that they do in places like Jacksonville, Fagatville, Raleigh, things like that. We don't have that to offer. What we do offer historically is we send them the training, right, which is something that you don't get at other agencies. A lot of larger agencies, you you check in, they hand you some keys, and you go take calls, and that's all you do for the

first three years of your life minimum. And we don't do that. We we take we use the winter time as an opportunity to send them to training that they normally wouldn't get until year five, year seven, things like you know somewhere along in their career. So that way we do that for a couple reasons. One it benefits us and also if they decide to leave they're a better qualified officer and wherever they go they're that new agency is getting a better hire out of it. So we have to attract people to come here and in my opinion we need to we need to entice them to stay. I went through in preparation for the budget I went through last budget meeting and one of the things that was brought up a lot was the fact that we need to focus on treating the employees that are already here better. And we cannot because of our size. We cannot give them a place to go within the agency. If they want to get promoted, a sergeant, a corporal, a captain has to quit or die. And that's unfortunate, but it is what it is. We only have so many places to move them to. So, what I'm proposing is uh I don't want to say restructuring, but it's a it's a different way of looking at how we're promoting our officers. So I've removed corporal ranks from from the equation alto together. We won't we will no longer have corporals. But we have a step plan in place whereby after three years of service you're eligible for PO1 or um excuse me P2 and after seven years of service you're eligible for a master patrol officer position. Both of which incorporate a pay raise. And then in addition to that, we're looking at paying for training and certificates that they receive as an incentive that's paid yearly or bianually.

So if an officer goes to say for instance drone school and he becomes a drone pilot and he's able to fly that drone anytime he's on duty and maybe he's even on call depending on the situation on a busy Fourth of July weekend, we're going to we're going to compensate him for that ability. It's a services provided to the taxpayers and it's something that uh that the town is benefiting from. So, I feel like that needs to be compensated for and there's multiple others in that pay plan that I handed out, multiple other things that you can go for to try to get a higher yearly incentive bonus. the I put a cap on it of five five per employee and importantly they have to actually use that certification. So they can't stack these certifications just for the purpose of being paid for them right and through their evaluation process their supervisor namely me is going to say hey you didn't do any drone flying this year so I'm not going to give you that $1,000 for your drone flying ability. I'm glad you've got it, but let's try to utilize it, right? And obviously there's other other ways to deal with somebody who's not working and not doing the things that they are supposed to be doing. But what I'm trying to do here is basically give people officers that come in not only an incentive to come in, but also an incentive to stay. They have something to look forward to, something to attain, something to reach for as they're here. So that after two years of being here, if a if an officer checks in and two years later he hasn't gone anywhere, he starts getting antsy and and says, you know, I kind of want to go somewhere else. So in with this plan, he has some place to uh someplace to move to without

necessarily being promoted. Um, backing up, I am asking to change the starting starting salary, the starting salary in the county, the average starting salary in the county and in the the region, not just county of of Czech Pender County, uh, as far down as um, Baldhead Island. It's $54,000 is the average for a starting salary. Now, the countyy's hurting us right now because the county is starting their deputies at $60,000, which I know we can't do, and I I wouldn't expect. I'm not sure how they're doing it, but they are. Uh, so $54,000 gets us in the average range. And I think that that number to me, it's crazy. And I I had a conversation with the mayor a few weeks ago. I started here at $14 an hour and I made it somehow. But the reality is people can't live on 40 or $45,000 a year nowadays. It's not possible. Rent is out of control. Of course, it's based on BAH from the base, but some of them are even higher than that. I mean, I've heard people that are getting two-bedroom apartments for $2,000, which is that's unreal. So, 40 $45,000 if you're single or if you don't have another source of income is just not it's not uh not feasible. One thing I did want to address, mayor, during the last uh the last budget meeting, you brought up the fact that we were we had a pay range and we could hire somewhere in that pay range. Unfortunately, and I don't I don't know the reason for this. Historically, we haven't been able to go past 5%. I don't know. Is is that written in policy?

Okay. Communication. The communication has always been that there was um ability to hire at any point in that range if a if a qualified candidate had applied.

Certainly, and we've talked about that, the communication issues there. But my point in saying this is that while I may be able to move somebody into a higher rate, I have to provide justification for that. So, if I've got somebody coming in who's a BL graduate and has no credentials other than he's a BL graduate and I move him up, well then the next person that comes along that has a little bit of credentials, I have to move him higher and we end up in a compression situation which we've had several times this year already where somebody's been here three years and is making less than the guy that I just hired. And so while the range is there, the effective starting pay is still $45,000 for $45,89 I think it is. So I'm asking to to raise that to $54,000. Go to the next slide, please, Ricky. So here's an example of what that would look like. Officer Smith, the the hypothetical officer Smith, he's been here for three years. He's a drone pilot and field training officer. He's completed his base patrol class package which which consists of seven seven different certifications that he uses daily on patrol and his current salary is 51925. Now we don't have an officer Smith but we do have an officer that meets all of those and their salary is 51925. And so under this pay proposed pay plan, he would be uh making he would be a a P2 and his base salary would be $56,700. His annual bonus would be $3500 and it could be paid in two installments. Just to give you an idea of what that looks like. Next slide. Obviously the positive impact on this town, we're we're boosting morale. We're retaining the people that we put time and money into. All right. I calculated quickly uh before I came in the the cost

of just the uniforms for a new officer is $2,360. Just uniforms. That's everything that they wear outside of their gun and taser. We keep those. We don't give new ones every time somebody comes in. But but vests, shirts, pants, boots, all the things, duty gear, $2,360. We're saving that money if we retain them. It takes us 12 weeks of training to get that person from a BL graduate graduate to being on the road by themselves. We have to pay for a psych test, a medical evaluation, a year analysis. We have to do a full background and we have to qualify them on the range and that entire process takes about two months to go through. So there's a lot of a lot of things that we're saving there. Mainly what this is is this an is an investment in the people that we have here and the people that we want to have here. This allows us to attract better qualified candidates, candidates that are more motivated to be here and and motivates candidate uh employees that we already have to stay here. Next slide. I did manage to save a little bit of money. Uh, I do not have any non-C capital projects this year planned. Uh, last year we had um, two drone um, yeah, two drones and I think we had some ads in there. So, that was where that $16,720 was going. I removed that. Uh, my professional services budget, it's an anomaly. I don't know why we had $30,000 in there. No matter. Brought it down to $7,500. We use that to pay for things like the SAG test and and uh your analysis and medical examinations. My ballistic vest grant I brought down to 4,400. That was uh inflated for a reason last year. It traditionally sits right around5 to $6,000,

but last year they added the funds from the previous year because we had not yet been build for those vests. So it had gone up to 10,000 and change and now it's back down to 6,400. And then capital outlay, as I mentioned, I managed to decrease uh $15,000 because I found better deals on vehicles. So my total offset there is 58,720. Next slide. So as you can see, my total ask is 79,411, but that does not include the salaries. That's only through my line items. Uh the salary numbers I I'm not entirely certain about. I looked at them yesterday and I would defer you to Wayne to to get those numbers and I think they are included in the package that you have. So that's my request for this year. I have focused heavily on the pay plan. It's what's important. I believe I think it's the most pressing issue that's facing the town right or facing the police department right now. And if I'm being honest, you could take all of our cool things away. give us clipboards and revolvers and we would still police this town some kind of way. But we have to take care of the people that we have and we have to attract candidates that are going to provide good services for the town so that when you look out of your out your window at night and see that police car by go by, you know that uh that that person's motivated to be here and he's taken care of or she

that's all I have. I welcome any questions. Let's start with Mark. Uh first and foremost, thank you and everyone that's involved in police service. Uh I think a lot of people do not realize it is a 247 day job. Uh at 2:45 in the morning, Christmas morning, New Year's Eve, people just take all

So again, thank you. Uh well, presentation. Um really and truly the biggest thing I take out of your presentation is the vision, the future vision. Uh I couldn't agree with every I mean I can't agree more with everything you you put forward. Uh I want to invest in the people. I want people that want to be here. Um my biggest concern is uh and I've been approached by many public uh uh residents here. the and this may be more of a town manager and public works uh gasoline. Uh, of course, we don't know what the market's going to do and everything else. Um, and then also, we know we have to leave the island to get gas, but I don't know what public works has as far as filling up uh things down there at fire station 2 and the public works. But, uh, I don't know if we're able to, you know, buy bulk containers, 5,500 gallons,

and then just swap the tankers out dealing with CAMA and whatever other, uh, issues we may have, but we currently have gas tanks down there, right? Well, I'll let Chris speak to the details of it. We do have

so I I don't know what the quantity is, but I do I do know that um we still want North Toppsel Beach going to Sneeeds Fairy and knowing their way around Sneez Ferry for uh second uh callins. Um Holly Ridge as well. Uh Sanctum is awesome. Great that you guys are going there. Also, you know, it gets people to know the areas as well. But I would like for us to look into some way of having gas on the island that we can buy in bulk at a cheaper rate than, uh, having to constantly go to, uh, Speedway every, you know, four four or five times a day it seems like. But, uh, great presentation. Um, I couldn't agree. I mean, like I said, I can't agree with I think that was well presented. Thank you. That's all I've got.

Connie,

can't can't skip me. Obviously, I'm in a unique position having uh worked with you and uh all the officers. Um, I think much like you said, it's imperative that we do focus on a pay scale that retains people, that honors people, and and what we called it value added in my previous agency. Um, but I see the same sort of thing with the specialties and certifications. I think that's vital to, as you said, there's not a whole lot of diversity and and movement here. It's beat patrol. There's detective roles, sergeant roles, but ultimately it's really heavy on patrol and allowing people to do instructor drone pilot. I think that's vital to giving the officers an opportunity to grow. Also, like you said, by letting them grow, I think it it it makes them more profitable to other agencies. So, uh, by raising the the scale, uh, and including these incentives, I think it's it's really good. Um, what do you what have you found in the past budget or the past year? Um, and what do you foresee in the future other than gasoline is to be expense, ammunition costs, um, you know, I think are going to be going up. Um what what other supply issues do you foresee could be a yellow flag for you moving forward?

So actually ammunition has gone down uh with the current administration and because a couple years ago we switched from 45 caliber weapons to 9mm weapons. That saved us a ton of money and allowed me to stockpile a lot more ammunition which we do on purpose because we invariably because of the political climate we end up in a situation where you just can't find any. So we put a good amount back. Uh ammunition is not an issue. So what what I've seen what costs the most money is the technology, right? Technology is continuously changing. Uh next year we'll be looking at renewing our contract for our body cameras. Storage is extremely expensive. Cloud storage is expensive, right?

Um those cameras get beat to death. They're on somebody's chest 24/7 and so they're constantly getting bumped into doors and so on so forth, falling, all those things. Those have to be replaced on a regular rotation. So I would say technology is probably where the uh the majority of the expense is going to go. Vehicles have been expensive since co and I I don't know if any of y'all have bought a vehicle lately, but I would not pay the prices if it was personal. I would not pay the prices that they're asking for these things. I wish I could keep them on the road for 20 years. It's not feasible, but uh but they've been expensive. So, that's not anything new. And and in the past, I we we had a vehicle sheet that you provided us with the mileage and stuff like that. Yes, sir.

And as I know, many of these vehicles are well over 100,000 miles. They are.

Um which I think reliability becomes an issue. Are we seeing a a breakdown in or or repair cost increased with the, you know, the higher mileage vehicles? Well, fortunately, I happen to be pretty good at turning a wrench. So, occasionally I'll take a patrol vehicle down to uh public works and I'll do the work on it myself and it saves the town a lot of money and it frankly I think I do a better job than some mechanics. So, not toot my own horn, but I think I do a pretty good job with it. So, yeah, we we've tried to offset those costs quite a bit. We do see more larger repairs. So, the closer you get to that 100,000 milei mark, that's when you start having things like suspension issues. Um, not really engine issues so much. But these computer or these cars are just filled with computers now. And so, you'll have a patrol car where all of a sudden the speedometer that used to be a dial that goes like this is now a digital display and it just goes away. And that is incred. You have to go to the dealership. I mean, most most places won't work on something like that. So, then you have to take that truck to the dealership. They have to work on it. And it's unfortunate that vehicles are that way. I wish they built them like they did 30 years ago, but that that's where those costs go.

I I have a lot more questions and we could talk about this all day long, but I'd like the other the other alderman um I'm sure have their questions as well. Uh Chief, I appreciate obviously everything that you have done for the department, for uh the troops, the men and women alike, as well as the fire department, which I'll compliment them when they come up and do their report. But thank you very much for your service to the town. Thanks, sir. Very good budget presentation. Thank you. I appreciated it. Um how many total officers do you have currently?

We have 13 full-time officers. Total officers, including reserves, are at 18. 13 full-time and altogether 18. Are there your reserve um officers paid as well when they come in? Only when they work. It's in the spreadsheet. I they got to read. You can't read it, but it's No. No. I wanted it so that it' be on the on the record. On the record so that people could adhere. Um are you asking for any more new employees? No, ma'am. Not this year. Okay. Um, how many beach patrol people do you have? Are you asking about beach ambassadors? Beach ambassadors.

So, we are in the process of hiring. My goal is to get three. I have one that's returning from last year. In fact, she's been with us for this is her third year. Well, no, her fourth year. She's been here for the entire program. So, I'm I'm really just looking to fill two spots. Three is is my target. And so, do you have three side by sides for them? No, I have one side by beach patrol vehicle, the little Jeeps that we drive. I have one of those and I have a Ranger, a Ford Ranger that they drive. All right. Um, and does that also include now does the beach patrol that does the overnight beach patrol, does that fall under the police?

It does not. That falls under the uh planning department, I believe, doesn't it? All right. Very good. And um what is the what is the big benefit to changing to San Sanctum versus the uh police facility at the end of Dolph Everett Road in Holly Ridge?

Well, the the main issue is the availability, right? So that range is owned and operated by the town of Holly Ridge and they get the final say about who's there and when. And so oftentime Some cops are lazy, okay? And oftentimes we all are trying to qualify at the same time a year and you can't get into the range. And so we're constantly fighting for time. Also, we don't get to train out there. We get to go out there for qualifications mostly, but this deal that we have with Sanctum allows us to go out twice a month. It's first and second Tuesday of every month, and we get to range all day long. We get to use their targets. We get to use all their facilities. They have turning targets and all. I This is the nicest range I've ever been to and I've been to a lot of them. And so

asking what tell what the difference is between that and Holly Ridge. Oh, that's a commercial. It's It's night and day, right? Holly Ridge is is a dirt pile in the middle of the woods. I I've been out there. Yeah. To the dirt pile. Yeah. Now, no nothing against Holly Ridge. If I had my own dirt pile, I'd be happy with it, but I just don't. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I've been out to the one at Holly Ridge. Um Um Yeah. So So it was nice that it was uh available and provided, but you're saying the services and the and the training you can get from Sanctum are just very much superior.

Very much so. Yeah. And they they offer they have certified instructors out there, which I'm a firearms instructor. I do the majority of the instruction for our agency, but they have people who are trained in competitive shooting, are really able to take an an officer who's having troubleshooting or or whatever, and they can hone in on what the issues are, grip, this, that, all the things. And they've offered to do that for us for free for this same $3,500 in addition to all the time that we get out there multiple days a year to two days a month for for the entire year. They they So, this is $3,500 for a year. For the entire year, for the entire department. It's all right. It's the best deal I've seen on a range. It's a great deal.

And I And I asked them, they asked them if it was going to change and they said they have no plans of increasing that. So, you can't argue with it. And I was very fortunate uh last year to have been able to have gone and qualified on that range. And same I mean, I've worked obviously in a major metropolitan area and used their range. This range is superior. Their staff is phenomenal. I think this is one of the best investments for a town that doesn't have their own range or access to it. I I just think we were very fortunate. Whoever negotiated this did a phenomenal job.

Yeah, it was Sergeant Lewig. I'll just go ahead and plug his name. Sergeant Lewig actually had a part-time job out there when they first opened and he was the one that that got us in touch. So, very very grateful for his contribution there. Well, very good. And I I thank you for everything. I thank your officers. You guys do a phenomenal job. Thank you, ma'am.

You want me to say that again? Oh, they always save the best for last. And besides that, they already ask all the hard questions, so I can ask anything. Okay. Question. The the reserve officers you talk about, how many we have? Uh, five. Five. And and how of how how do you use those timewise?

Well, there's different reasons for different ones. So, some of them I keep on staff for the express purpose of bringing them in for internal investigations, right? So, we have some that have retired from law enforcement and um when you have an internal investigation, you want to try to remove as much of the bias as possible. Those officers don't know any of our current officers. So, if I have somebody that I need to investigate internally, I'll bring them in to do the investigation. Also, uh we have some that actually will come out and and cover shifts for us, right? Without exception, with one exception, all of our reserve officers used to be a full-time officers with us and some of them long time ago, some of them more recently. So, people move on in life and they say, "I don't want to do this full-time because it's breaking my back and ruining my sleep sleep schedule and all that kind of thing." They ask to be put in a reserve status which really has no effect on the department. It's just a change of status and then when they come in and work to cover a shift, we pay them then. But they don't get benefits. They just get part time.

So they only they only get paid for when they're coming to work. Correct. Yes, sir. The the uh how often do you how often do you think that you use those? Well, it depends on um it depends on our staffing levels. Uh recently I've been using a reserve officer quite frequently. Don Yarnick. I don't know if you've seen her in the meetings. She comes in with me. She's been helping me a lot. She retired from the sheriff's office as a lieutenant and uh she has more of that administrative background. So she's been coming in to help me a lot through this transition process. Do in staffing where where do you consider us in regards to being fully staffed?

We're we're down two right well. We're down one. I've hired one that's in BL. He's not doing much for me right now, but as soon as he graduates from BL, he will. But when we're fully staffed that we we are we're able to handle most all the operations that take place. Yes, sir. Yeah, we don't have any problem with operations. That's in good that that's in busy times and slow times. Correct. Yes, we're going to handle it one way or another. Uh, of course, we we prefer to do it with a full roster. Yeah, I understand. Sure. Well, thank you. It was very excellent. presentation. Thank you, sir.

Now, the tough questions. There I did the beach patrol. Can we put up the the pay plan again, Ricky? So, looking at the spreadsheet, you've got seven officers that would get a raise to get to 54. Yes, that's correct. Right. Just so I'm I'm looking at uh at the spreadsheet, which I don't have a problem with. I'm just trying to figure out the math. Oh, wait a minute. Are you talking about when you look at the spreadsheet that that's attached to the police budget, you've got the list of the officers and their current pay without their names on it.

And on that sheet, there's there'll be seven of them that to get moved up. You're if you're moving everybody up to you're going to have the same jam again, you know, because you got people that are at the bottom of that and you got people that are um let me see if I can find them. In fact, many on this hour. Now I got it. Well, this is this is spreadsheet that I put together, right? So, but what I'm saying is you're going to um one of the things that that I would ask you to do

don't don't hand this out. I'll give this back to you. I don't like to have people's names associated with stuff on this. Certainly, just But what I'd like you to do is you're going to have if if you moved everybody that was under 54 to 54, you're going to have a problem because you got people with experience. I mean, you've got a range in here of I'm trying to find the closest one. You got somebody at 5 521 and you've got somebody at 47. So, you got a $5,000 pay gap, right? So, moving moving everybody on this thing to 54, you're just going to have the same problem you described, right? Well, no, because that that step plan that I'm implementing

is going to allow those officers once they get that experience, they can move into that P2 spot, right? So I believe that one that that you're talking about at 51 has the required experience to move into that P2 spot. So they won't actually be at 54. Okay. Yeah. Okay. See, I didn't see the new So you've got Okay. But you've got somebody going up 13,000. You've got Right. And that's based on responsibilities, right? That's a that's a sergeant, right? Okay. Oh, that's a sergeant. Is that what it is? Okay.

I was just trying to understand it because I was The one thing I didn't want you to do is have everybody make 54,000. Then you're back here next year with the same problem again. No, 54,000 would be the starting pay and that step plan is gives them a place to go. Right. Right. So after three years, they can move up and in the meantime they can start working on their classes so they can get that incentive pay because I'm trying to figure out. So that is according to this 38 that's 78,000 in payroll. Does that tie back to your No. So the the the summary that I have on here does not include payroll at all. It's just for the line item request. Okay.

Right. because you're looking at well when you look though at the at the top schedule that Wayne gave us you're asking for an increase in um in salaries of of 89,000 so 10% right but so I don't these don't these don't tie to 10% is my point so if you can the calculations that I made are what are what's in your hand I'd have to let Wayne tell you how he got to 89,132 I don't just took 10% times to pay a salary. That's what it looks like. Yeah. What we tried to do to incorporate the tier plan, which I will say right now, I know it's going to need more work to dial into the details, right?

Um because the chief did a great job giving us some details. We tried to incorporate that 10% is um people's base and then the the different levels of the tier anywhere the the reaching 54 and then 54 plus three or seven or whatever the different tiers are. So we tried to use an overall 10% increase to cover what that would be. U it probably is not exact at this moment. We need to go deeper into person by person. Okay.

Uh but that's what that 10% was to try to take where people are now. Some of it will be uh uh an increase to get them to the 54 level. Some of them will be an extra increase which will bring them into All I'm saying is I'd like to see it flushed out and and tied back to his schedule. I can't I can't tie this back to the schedule. Sure. Okay. And I'm not I don't necessarily have a problem with

with what you're talking about doing. I just noticed that there's, you know, like I said, you've gone from somebody under here has gone up 7,000, some's gone up 14,000. That math doesn't tie back to a 10% increase. So, if we can I just want to make sure when we're doing the financial forecast on this thing, Wayne, that we can tie it back to what he's actually asking for because this is this doesn't include if we did a colar anything. This is just basically a base request to to restructure the department. This expansion request is to try to get close to the proposed No, that's fine. I'm just frankly I'm just looking at the math. I don't I don't have any concerns right now because I don't know what the numbers are. You know, Sure.

Mr. Carter's not in here to be the skunk at the picnic and tell us what we can and can't afford. Right. What I'm looking at though is when I look at at what we have under salaries, okay, if we were to do cost of living or something else, it's going to be an addition to the 89,000 that's here. Yes. Because this is a restructuring number. Yes. So if we were I'm going to make a number up. If we were to say use the 10% we've used in the past then eight then I'm going call it 90. 90 becomes 180,000 and you got a completely different forecast as to what this is going to cost over five years. Correct.

Right. That that's what I'm I'm not talking about the restructuring or anything else. But if we're going to do a forecast which is Carter's going to do over five years. If this is 180,000 instead of 90,000, then you got the compounding effect each year. And I think we need to see that number and see what it looks like. Um, and back to bonuses. I saw I saw you had so sign on bonuses. A question for you. All right. So, I sign on, I get my cash, and I decide decide to leave the next day. No, that'll be tied to the amount of time you're here. Generally sign on boss or at least in my experience sign on bonuses are are paid after a year of employment 18 months of employ. So it's basically you you in order to get the bonus you have to be here for that period of time.

Correct. That that was my question too. Normally it's you get 50% then you get maybe 10 more% after 6 months and then you get the rest after like two years. Yeah. Um I'm a jack of all trades but a finance year I'm not. So I'm going to lean on him quite heavily. You and I also talked about working with the county. Um, I've talked to uh, well now four of the commissioners to try to work on ways that we can work together to cut expenses together. And so I know your commitment is to do that. We talked about it before is to sit down with Chris Thomas and find out if there's anything we can do together. And I'm thinking equipment and all that kind of stuff, too. So certainly, um, EOC is not in here. No, sir. That's not in the police department budget.

That's in a capital fiveyear. That'll be in the other one. Okay. because I did talk to uh Frankie about that. He's aware of it. Alice had already talked to him and you guys must have talked to him too, right? About doing something there. So that's in the other budget. Okay. Yes. In the capital five-year plan. Okay. Right. So just looking at the math, you know, I like the presentation. It's a good job on that. I just want to make sure that the numbers become accurate, Wayne, because if we're if we're doubling 89 now, you're at a 20% increase. Um which obviously from the town standpoint is not sustainable. So, okay. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Did you want me to take that paper back? Oh, yes, please. I get nervous when I got people's names associated with salary,

except for yours. Thank you for the presentation and kind of set the bar high for the rest of the crowd. Morning. Morning.

Um, I'm Deputy Chief Harley. Uh, Chad's dealing with some stuff, so I'm going to try to step in and do my best chief impression that I can give. Um, so looking at our budget, um, we can go through the line item stuff if y'all want to go dive in deep. Um but pretty much across the board, we're about um just a little bit increase for inflation. Um with the expenses of, you know, a $2 increase in diesel for the last month or so, it's it's gone up. Um we're still on track this year, but just preparing for next year. We increased a little bit. Um our department supplies went down um because we purchased some stuff this year that we won't need to repurchase. Um the other stuff that went up was uh uniforms. Um, for our turnout gear, we're expecting another increase. Every year it goes up. Um, and we're trying to get the uh we're on pace for getting the two sets for everybody. So, every year we rotate and get about four new sets um of gear. The other one that I saw that went um down was the dues and subscription. um we had some decrease in our uh uh what was in our reporting software went down a little bit um from what we were looking at previously and then um our communications outlay which is our radios and stuff um we increased to try to get another radio. Um as it stands right now if we were to replace every single radio that we have it's about uh almost a quarter uh 200,000 to about 250,000 to replace. So, if we can slowly do that over time, it makes it a little bit easier to swallow. Um, but if y'all have any questions in those, I know you probably just got this yesterday, um, as far as what to go through, but if there's anything in the line items that y'all see, by all means, we can we can discuss it or whatnot.

Um, I'll move on to the big ticket items. And yes, we are asking for all the money. Um, so for our capital outlay, um, we want to start working towards the purchase of a ladder truck. Our current ladder truck is a 1999. Um, so we've got 27 years on her. Um, and she's been doing good. Um, but last year we had to replace the turbo and the radiator, um, which was about a I think total was about 25,000. Um, the engine we just sold was for turbo and radiator, which is about 35,000. So, the cost to repair um is continuing to go up. The plan that we've got is a three-year um where we put 600,000 away each year towards it. Um while we reply for the red leg grant, which is what we've got for um the engine that we currently have, which is a 0% and then the uh grant amount is based on how many people get accepted for that grant that year. Um, but as it stands right now, it's about 6 months to start a spec. Um, you know, that's going to conferences, that's looking at other trucks, looking around and everything else. Um, and then it's about a two to two and a half year process to build one. Um, and there's increases between now and then. So, we're expecting a $1.8 million price tag is what we're looking at. Um there are some uh other options, other grants and everything else and we'll look at those along the way. Um but the main one that we've we've looked at now is the the red leg um that we got accepted for when we bought the uh the engine that we currently have. Um the other one is a boat. our current boats, uh, I believe a 16 foot, um, 90 horsepower Yamaha, trying to get out, especially in, uh, rougher or even semi- rough weather, getting out the inlet, it

struggles. Um, top speed, calm water, she gets about 22 miles is about how fast she can go. Um, and anything trying to get a w a wave over the front or anything, it's going to slow it down tremendously. Um, so we have a proposed um, and we have it in the budget. We also have it in there for the grants um, so that we can look for the AFG grant. Currently, we're still they're still awarding from last year's um, due to government shutdowns and stuff. They haven't closed all the AFGs that we put in for last time. Um, but the boats were not part of it last time. So, we're expecting that that kind of stuff will be on this upcoming AFG grant whenever they they do open it. Um, so those are the big two capital outlay items that we have. Any questions?

Wayne, do we have do we have the detail behind what he just described? I can't find on the spreadsheet where he's talking about the capital projects and stuff. Is that on the spreadsheet? Yeah, it should be. I think it's the second to last um on the base request tab to the far right. Okay, that's what I'm not that that's what happened. Yeah, the base request is kind of a detail of what's on that summary page. Got it. Um and it shows 600 for the ladder, 400k for the boat, including the trailer. Yeah. Okay. I hate this on the computer. All you can get is about 40% of the spreadsheet. I'm like, I don't see it on here. Very hard to work on a laptop.

I see it now. Thank you. Um across the board, you know, there's the increase. Um trains costing more, conferences are costing more. Um the IDA just increased their per person cost for 200 $200 a person. And it's just due to everybody else's having to pay, you know, more money as well. Um be great if if it wasn't, but unfortunately we have to to maintain kind of where we're we're at. Um but across the board, it looks like we're about about the same. Um, I haven't done a full drill down of exactly what the change is, but as far as our increases and decreases, we're we're around the same as far as when it comes to our light items. The big changes are the capital outlay and then uh what's going to be our increase or our request for increase for salaries. And then um if that's if y'all have any other questions, I'll move on to salaries.

Okay, sounds good. Yep. I've got um here I got these for you guys. No, no. base firefight and I'll talk about some

um so the the sheet with all the color and the green and the yellow um that's a base firefighter pay study that we were able to do. Um, some of the notes are the Wilmington spate, the Wilmington pay is for a firefighter entering the academy. That is a non-certified non-EMT um, firefighter moving into the academy. That's what their starting rate is. Um, another one to note is Morehead. Obviously, it's the highest one. Um, it's they're just pay the most around. Um, but we tried to find other places that are either close to us or are about our size and demographics. um as best we can because we are a very unique area with uh our population and how many houses we have. So our trend median is 548 um is what we're looking at. Um what we're looking at to do and request is a

Sorry, just to interrupt you. Yeah, this is starting pay average. Starting pay. Okay. Yes, sir.

So right back to discussion about you don't have to pay starting pay to bring people on board. So yes sir. Um and and it was brought up last budget um that you know we don't have to start at the base. Um and that's correct. Uh when I first started we hired six or seven guys in my first six months. Um but since the last 12 months we've only hired one. Our turnover has you know not completely stopped but has rapidly slowed down. um that's been due to um you know I guess I would say policy changes um and stuff administratively that we can do that don't cost money or a line item. It's uh improving morale and that kind of stuff. Um but I I mean not to I may be overstepping Wayne but I believe there was a a form from four or six years ago um that showed you know hey this is the pay range and the starting salary was below the pay range and from my understanding it was so that when they came off probation they would be at the minimum for the pay range. I may be um I don't have that in front of me but when I was looking through stuff the other day that's what I saw. Um and and like you said, Mr. Mayor, it you're 100% correct that we have that ability now to not start at the minimum. It's for our guys who are behind, you know, who have been here six, eight years who we would like to keep. Um but during the time when they were hired, they were hired at a lower rate. Um so I can bring guys in now and and have a little bit more control of where they are. But for the people that we've trained who have gear, who we don't have to get uniforms for or anything else, they're behind. Um, and so what we're asking for and um, trying to request is a it's a 15% total, which would be a 5% merit, a 5% salary adjustment, which would give us the ability to move people up or not give as well because there are some individuals

that are lower, some individuals that are higher. Um and then a 5% merit so that way we can um try to get our our firefighters, our lieutenants and our captains into that pay range we want. Um we're looking at 53 for firefighters uh for our master firefighters. Um we're looking at 57 for our lieutenants, 60 for our captains. Um there are there is one anomaly, well two anomalies on the pay range. If you look at the third lieutenant, it says 21 and a.5%. Um, that's due because we do merit pay or merit raises based on your annual pay your or your uh your yearly when you got hired. Um, so he still hasn't received his merit from this budget because he didn't get hired until May. Um, so he'll receive his merit and that that percentage will change then.

Deputy Chief Harley. Yeah. Um, you said earlier 5% for merit, 5% for salary adjustment, and then you said 5% for merit again. Sorry. 5% cola, 5% salary adjustment, and 5% from merit. So, a 15% total. Um, or up to 15% total. Obviously, you know, that doesn't tie into your schedule, right? What do you mean? Not even close. You're looking at a $30,000 increase in your salaries. 15% of 973 is about $140,000. So they don't that does not tie at all.

So we didn't as far as I know it's aboutund I did the math for us at a full 15% it's like 137. Um I'm not sure I don't I don't have I don't go through do all the FICA and everything.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But like I said, across the board, if you can look what we're proposing for each one, um it's not a a blanket 15. Um because certain individuals are closer to that range because we have hired them closer to that. Um and then we have some that are behind that we we we need to bring up to to help with retention. Ju again, um we're trying to use the uh uh expansion request to bring people to this minimum that similar to the discussion we had with the chief um colas in merits were not in that. And also just for reference um for the sake of a pie chart being more visible uh personnel uh when you look at at you're looking at some of those numbers have have like the combined numbers just for the visual effect instead of breaking out FICA and Orbit and all those individual things you would have had a million little tiny pieces. So personnel is kind of a lump a lump number.

So in in the for example next comes in, we got to make sure we scrub these out because it's going to be when Doug does the forecast with you on the five-year, that's when the rubber hits the road in terms of what the real cost of this stuff is. So, Sure. Sorry. Go ahead.

Oh, good. Um, so that's that's what we're looking for. Um like I said that for the master firefighters which is our fully certified um you know we have their water rescue we do our our annuals um everybody has their uniforms and gear and like I said to help with retention um we're proposing the up to 15% not a not a blanket across the board 15%. Um, and we've kind of broken it down by, you know, current salary for the position and then where we would like to move them to. Um, and like I said, we have the the colored sheet and even on the bottom of the um the fire pay sheet that has every position. You can see a little bit more in depth. Um, these numbers were just pulled off of NEOGV um which is has some kind of salary pay, but I'm hoping that it's pretty well updated. Um, but it it could be off some as well. Um, outside of that, that's really all I have. Like I said, the big items that changes were the capital outlay and then our our request for salary increase. So,

Larry, it's all about money. At the end of the day, sir, yes, it is. Unfortunately, your button, it's all about Yes, sir. Unfortunately,

repeat myself over and over again. The the uh are we are we adequately staffed? Um so as of right now we have one opening. Um we had a captain leave to go to Onso County. Um he left uh about about 45 days ago. Um our process should close for applicants at the end of the month. Um we should look at doing interviews next month and then hiring around May uh May June just depending on who we pick and how long it takes and that kind of stuff. Um but outside of that we are at our current rate of five on every day. We are fully staffed except for the one and that's adequate.

Um I I mean I can go into NFBA regulations and everything else. Um they're just recommendations. Um I think chief has a a vision of um an additional three um staff at the end of the day to put three on um you know I mean we could we could put 10 guys on if we really wanted to. We just don't have the space for them or really the need. Um, I think Chief's vision of the three additional um would would put us about where we need to be long term. Um, but we also don't want to bring three new guys in and then have to do a salary adjustments again next year and everything else. We'd like to to work on, hey, this is where we are and we get it back on pace for the future and then look at bringing an additional three in later. Are we are we basically working are are we able to handle what we need to handle adequately with the number we have?

Um again like I said I can I can throw back policy in NFPA and stuff like that. So NFPA states it's a two in two out rule. Um you know if you've got uh no known persons inside um then for safety reasons before two people can go in you have to have two people outside. That's what they say. Um, obviously if there's a rescue or someone inside that that goes out the window because life is more important. Um, but we risk a lot, save a lot, risk a little, save a little kind of thing. Um but when you look at on a fire scene and I know we don't fortunately we don't have a lot of them but when we do um if I have the three guys as of right now I have one one individual operating both units that's two um I have a team of two and then I I'll have another team of two. So I'll have six guys on scene which will allow in for the two in two out and I'll have guys operating. So, I think that's why chief's idea of the six would be sufficient. Um, it would help us with our ISO ratings as well. Um, we also get credits for um, Turkey Creek and Surf City and and I know I think our adjustment or our re-evaluation for ISOs this year. Um, which we should be lower than what we are currently. I think we missed it by a quarter of a point. Um, something like that. So, it it'll definitely or I say definitely it should go down um from from where we currently are. So,

how often do you use the boat?

Um we would like to use it more. I'll be honest. Um it's the ability to use it when it is inclement or that kind of stuff. Um unfortunately last year when we had the um the incident around October um the weather did not allow us to to to use it. Um if we had something that was maybe a little bit more big a little bit bigger, a little bit more power um to push through, you know, three-foot waves, that kind of stuff. Um it would be more beneficial. Um and then it would allow us to do more upstaffing on, you know, holiday weekends and stuff like that as well. More present. are on the beach.

Mhm. Well, then then you'd be happy with the county wanting to put four more fire people out here, huh? So, I know the reaction to that. I mean, people don't realize that you I've been talking to them. They want to put four more fire people on this beach. The county does. Oh, yeah. Yep. So, I can tell you that's not been well received by your chief. So, so you know, working with them, I think we can work something out to get more to get more people um in terms of rescue and stuff on the beach. So, I'm not going to put you on the spot. You're probably not aware of it, but I'm just telling you that's that's in their planning right now. So

the the only thing that I would say to that is um for them to come into I mean and and and working conjunction like with obviously ser I know I know all the down I've already talked to your chief about the downside. I'm just making the point though if we're looking at staff then like I've talked to the police chief is figuring out ways to work with the county to keep the cost down for everybody is a very good way to cover these things. Yes sir. Um like I said I don't I don't think this year is um gave us money to do the stuff, you wouldn't care versus having other people on the beach, right? I mean, yes, sir. But

that's what I'm working towards, just so you know, is we'd rather have the cash, all right, than the people. So, anyway, I'm getting off subject. Let's Mark. Yeah, go.

All right. Um, while we're on the boat topic, first and foremost, thank everybody for what they do. Uh, we can what if this thing until the cows come home. Um, you know, if we have two people on a boat and two people on land looking to see if they can find a a a missing person and then you have a fire call and then you have a wreck, um, it just adds up. So, thank thank the Lord for our uh, supporting departments with Holly Ridge and uh, Turkey Creek and Surf City, uh, it goes a long way to work with one another. Um, really and truly, the old saying is it doesn't matter how new the equipment is if you don't have the people to operate it. So, uh, really and truly, we could we could have a thousand firemen and when the what if day hits, we'll still probably be short on people. With that being said, the boat, uh, I know when I got here 10 years ago, roughly, we had a 25 ft boat that didn't get used very often. We had to drive all the way over to uh, Fultures Landing to launch it or launch it here under the pier. And then if it's traffic, you can't get a 25 foot boat in there in two minutes. No way. But uh, what type of boat are you guys looking for? So, I think it's um it's a rigid inflatable similar to what we have now. More of uh kind of what the sheriff has with the um enclosed cab

beach launchable or it would uh it'd be um it would be launchable from the boat ramp, but I think there's also and I'm like I may be speaking out of term, but I think there's a a potential plan in place for a boat lift to have it pre-staged um and ready to go. Yeah, that as far as that would be awesome because I know I mean just personal history, captain's license, midlife crisis, running a charter, I'm at North Topsel Beach, man, I got it made. Next thing you know, I'm doing a spiral of death taking me 20 minutes and gas money and left and right just to launch the dag on boat. And it's not cost feasible from a charter cp point. Absolutely.

Long story short is it's it's not just having the boat, it's being able to get it in and out effectively and with the manpower to handle it and the knowledge to know the uh waters because everybody knows New River inlet is constantly moving the channel to get in and out and even the Coast Guard pulls the buoys because they're not going to be held liable for somebody using the buoys and running around and drowning.

So, a lot of uh complicated stuff you have to guys have to deal with. So one thing would be you know the size boat, how it's launchable, price tag. Um currently as well you know my old saying is need to have and want to have on the truck 27 years ladder truck. Uh it's amazing that something at the beach made out of metal lasts that long. Uh a lot of aluminum sure keep it light but uh ladder truck is a need to have for those that are watching. um if we don't have a ladder truck, uh we're out of compliance, I assume, as well as our insurance rate plummets and um everybody's uh insurance would go up. So, uh uh you know, I don't know about the price tag, but we do do we foresee needing any other vehicles at this time within the next three to five years planning wise? As of right now, as far as outside of uh an administrative vehicle breaking or whatnot, that kind of stuff, um the truck just having a fit or something like that. Um but as far as our our apparatus, the engines and stuff, we are outside of the ladder will be set for quite some time, I would feel. Um as of right now, we're using our reserve ladder since or reserve engine at the south station. um because it's outside instead of it being in the salt air for the

which is another reason we get that fire department up and running. That's another question as far as storage. You know, it's nice to have all these vehicles, but with everybody knows you got to replace your HBAC unit every 3 to 5 years. If we're storing this fire trucks outside, it's it's not helping. And thanks to all your firemen and you guys policies for washing these trucks religiously. I mean, you know, that's probably part of the uh training in fire school is how to wash a truck properly. And you guys do a heck of a job. So, I think that's the majority of my questions. Y

the vehicles are plotted on the five-year plan. You're going to see vehicles plotted for them because theirs are fairly new. Um, as far as the two that the chief and the deputy chief use outside of the apparatus. Um, you'll see those towards the end of that five-year outlook. Yeah. And, uh, just for all the newcomers, when it rains and you think that's fresh water you're driving through, don't be naive. today.

Thank you, Chief. I I I appreciate again, as I said, with the fire department. I thank uh your staff for the outstanding work they do to protect our our citizens, our property. Um you talked about fuel cost and I it looked like in one of the line items that the fuel cost remained the same at 35,000. I mean, um it went up from 38 uh let me look and see what I got over here. So, gas, oils, and tires, uh it went from 385 to 45. Um, so about a six and a half thousand increase. Um, like I said, just with with the increase of I mean $2 a gallon, right, for diesel. I mean, it's it's about 550 is about the average around. I mean, you can find it for about 515.

Um, a ways we've cut down on using our usage is it's general standard practice is about 3/4 every 3/4 of a tank. When you're below, you go to the go to the gas station. Um unfortunately with us it's about um from the north station it's about a 15 mile round trip. Um so we're burning four gallons, three gallons to to go there. Um so we've lowered that um so that we were not making as many trips off the island and pretty much fighting a losing battle. Um but just because we do not know what it's going to happen with gas fuel tires. Um it's about $1,000 a tire to have a uh a tire replaced on on a a ladder or an engine um with labor and disposal and everything else. Um so and who knows that that very well could go up and on our reserve we're getting um we replaced some of them especially on the ladder truck but we're coming close to to needing something barring a flat or an issue or cupping or something like that in the meantime. So,

and you talk about the ladder truck outside of the the town. Where's the next nearest ladder truck? Surf city. Surf city. And that's still to the north end. That's 20 30 minutes. Yeah, depending on depending on season. Yeah. Um Fourth of July may be 45 minutes an hour.

Correct. Um new radios. Uh I know the police department recently got a grant for new radios. Obviously, I would I would say obviously exploring grant opportunities for for those type of purchases are great. I think also the boat, you know, we we sit here and preach about the beaches are, you know, our main that's what draws people here. That's why we're here. One of the reasons, the people, too. Um, but I I think the the boat I'd be very curious to see a lot more of the specs that you're talking about compared to what you have currently. Um, not that I'm questioning it. I'm just curious as a public safetyminded individual. Um, lastly, uh, the the fire station. Obviously, when that comes online, there's going to be equipment that needs to be purchased. Is any of the the I I I think some of the budget items were included maybe in previous budgets, but are to outfit as far as new furniture and stuff like that, refrigerators, where do we stand? They better be this year

because it's June 30 this year. Correct. If we're next year putting stuff in there, then we got a real problem. But as far as rolling it into the next year, Miss Alice will be able to to speak a little bit more on that. Um, Chief's been handling that's his that's his baby and uh I just get the the tidbits here and there. Um, but from my understanding and and I'm sure she'll she'll explain equipment wise is all that's been already planned for and incorporated. Wonderful. Be taken care of. We'd have a real problem put that stuff in July. Thank you again, Chief. Uh, thank you for your staff for the outstanding work they continue to do. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Um, every single question that I had written down was taken away from me by my other board members. So, you have answered everything wonderfully. Thank you. Appreciate you and your and your team. You guys do a great job. Well, thank you all for your time. I appreciate it. So now the tough questions. Ladder truck is $600,000. Where are you buying a ladder truck for $600,000?

So it's a threeyear stowaway. So it's not so it's not a $1.8 million price tag in three years. It's a 600, 600, and 600 over the three years because we're expecting um if we were to start today, it'd be about six to eight months for a final spec to be accepted and worked on and then about two years barring COVID or whatever else or a factory shutting down. Um I know at my time at Leland, uh they ordered a tiller and I think it was about three or four years by the time they actually got That that's where I was going because this is this is more of a commitment. Would we have to encumber the money then once we sign the contract? Do you do periodic payments, Alice? Is that the way it works?

Well, you would encumber money. I don't I don't believe it's not due. I don't believe it's due until you receive um you receive the apparatus. Okay. So, it would be basically storing away. You're paying yourself so that they that day that the apparatus is delivered and you accept it, you pay everything. And you feel pretty good about getting the same grant we've got for the current one, right? That's we'd be applying for um I we're piring for the red leg grant um which is what um was accepted last time. I think it's through the water system. Um which is a if I if I remember right is a 0% um and then grant amount is a Oh yeah, that's why we liked it. It's somebody else's money at the What's the term on that? That was 10,

right? And that is more competitive now. I know since we've done it a lot of other agencies have hopped on uh the train so um it is more competitive now and the amount for um the grant is based on how much is or how many are awarded okay but for and payment would be due at delivery for that's my question even if we encumbered it the cash piece of this stuff would not hit us until probably three years from now roughly fair as we mentioned in in the discussions I've had with with the chief Um, yeah, the the payment for the truck is due on delivery. Okay. But from a cash standpoint, this is not this would not be a cash item. It would just be an encumbrance,

correct? On a future piece. Yeah. It's always good to kick that out as far as we can, especially we don't get the trucks for. Um, and then turnover. Um, so we hired one, um, firefighter, master firefighter last October. Um, and then we have the opening for the captain's position as of right now. Okay. I was looking at the list that you gave us. Could you when you update this, could you put how long they've been here,

what the uh what the captain did? I think that would be helpful to uh when you're looking at, you know, raises and stuff like that. And then you've got all these hitting at one time. Um in terms of and same question I would ask the police captain. Um if we were to generally when you see these kind of increases it's been my experience they get stepped in not at one time because you have the if you give them the first year you got the compounding effect of that each year versus if you hired somebody today and you said we're going to move you to $60,000 but it's going to take two years. The way this is set up now is it'll h I mean and I'm just putting what we got in front of us. It's everything hits the first year.

Yes sir. So, the only thing I would say to that is that the if if you look at the current starting rates, this is based on last budget doesn't account for what they're going to be doing this year. Um, some places already have their budget in place, some don't. Um, so it could be anywhere between, you know, an average of 5% across the board. Um, and if we step in at 5%, then we're still fighting that battle. Um, I understand it's a it's a big step, but that's why we wanted to look at each individual position. That's why I'm asking about retention that way. That's why I'm asking you about retention and turnover. Um, you know, because generally, it's been my experience, people don't change jobs for $1,000,

right? For 10,000, they're probably gone. Um, and so the the question on something like that is again, and Alice, we've done comp studies before, right? What was the last study that we did? Uh the last formal study was done by the maps group which was done right before I came on board. So we probably need updates that so that that probably needs to be looked at. We talked about we included that in the budget last time but the will of the board at that time was we didn't really want to do a formal pay study. And how what's the timing on something like that? If if you got the trigger on Wednesday, how long would it take them to do a study? Um, it would depend on um, we have it in May.

Probably someone like the maps group um, who's familiar with North Topsel Beach that's worked here before. I I mean, I would say it would be a few months. So, in theory, we could have that before the budget was finally done. I I couldn't commit to that, but I mean, we would have to reach out and ask them. I can't I can't speak for that. Add that to my list for the

for the next meeting. All right. Thank you. Quick silly question. Um, beach ambassadors, just out of curiosity, I don't know if there we get into labor laws or issue there. Um, are town uh employees, would they be eligible to uh look into being a beach ambassador? I know a lot of people have side jobs with fire and police and everything else. And we've talked about police officers working overtime for some of these facilities um in the past with Chief Younger. So I didn't know if maybe that would be open to town employees because then that way we have another set of

food taking you would taking essential personnel from potentially from police and fire uh they because they work particularly on weekends holidays um I don't think we would be um taking just throwing it out essential staff to um because the role of a beach ambassador is just to educate and you know and if they because it was brought up uh last year about uh police officers working overtime for some of these special events.

But I think that's my concern is for employees who are full-time employees. If you put them on in a voluntary capacity, you're kind of following that that vague line. It would be overtime and now now you're paying overtime for it. No, that's that's the issue. It's I think once they're an employee, it's overtime no matter how you're employing them. Right. Correct. Yeah. I'm pretty sure human resource law that if they're an employee even if you use them in a different capacity that would then be yeah extra time and over yeah 104 just putting it out there so if anybody does ask question yeah thank you guys let's do one more

good morning so you're not replace in the IT department with AI? No. Okay. No. Trying not to.

So, I'm just going to go over the things that have changed and then if you have any questions about any of the other line items, uh, we can go over that. Um, the employee training line item is going back up slightly. Uh, we dropped that last year, I believe, down to,500. Trying to bump that back up to 2,000 so that I can attend training in Wilmington with the North Carolina IT association that's there. Um do some more continuing ed online and in person with the school of government for any classes they may have come up this year. Excuse me. Um the phones line item. We may need to rename that Wayne to phones and internet because phones and internet live under that. Um

none. So, this line item includes our cell phone plans. It includes our desk phones, VOIPE service, all of our internet service, our hotspots for the police cars, fire, everybody. Um, that's going up because Spectrum last year didn't get moved over to this line item when it should have. So, that's why you see the increase there.

Yes, some of the internet services were already there, but that one was not. um maintenance and repair equipment, bumping that back up to 8,000 from 6,000. It was originally 8. We dropped it down to six, moving it back to eight because um this past year we had some major AV equipment failures in here that pretty much consumed that entire line item. um dues and subscriptions going up slightly and that's mostly due to the ADP payroll um stuff that we're looking at implementing for finance. And then contracted services, that's for installing Starlink satellite dishes at all town locations and the police department's mobile command trailer. Um, for all of the town buildings, it would be a secondary internet connection if our primary went down. And the um monthly service for that is tied into the phones line item. So, that's another reason that one went up slightly. But the total cost for that for all locations is $10,000. That includes hardware and labor. And then the monthly service total, I believe, is around $500 a month for all the locations combined. And that's pretty much all I've got that's changing this year.

We'll go in weird order. Connie, thank you very much. You did a very good brief presentation. I like that a lot. Um, your Starlink, you said that's going to be a secondary service. Yes, ma'am. We we already have Starlink for the EOC or any type of emergency. It's a portable case. Um, but this would be permanent at each location um for backup. And that was my secondary question was um bless you.

Thank you. So your Starlink, you do have the capability if we did need to if there is a storm and you need to go to EOCC, you do have the capability to have a mobile one to bring with you to keep Yes, ma'am. We can take that anywhere. And um with this the police department's command post that they've got out there, it would also have a permanent solution in place so they can take that anywhere and have internet. Very good. And you have had this you have had it somewhat before now. Have you had any problems with it storms or anything? No, ma'am. We actually used it at the jazz festival last year and it worked great. Oh, very good. All right. And while she's on that topic, how often do you guys test that monthly? Is there like a Yeah.

Okay. Yep. Yeah, I think that I think that monthly you have to drag drag the case out monthly and plug it in just to let it do its updates and stuff. Yeah. Better know it works when you don't need it than when you need it. Especially during storm season, I'll actually take it outside and hook it up. And we don't need to face that again. So, thank you. I'm sorry, Con. No, no, that was good. Mark just took his turn, so that's Well, I believe actually that's all I had ready for uh to ask you, so thank you very much. Thanks for everything you do. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Uh thank you. Like you said, I think the Starling system had really did work well um out at the Jazz Festival last year and um I think outfitting the the police trailer for any incident that could occur, whether it be a water rescue or anything like that will will benefit public safety. Um a lot of talk obviously from the previous two presenters on um salary and retention. Yes, sir. Um how does our current IT salary compare to our town? believe that I have did we plug 10% in here for it as well? I think 10% was kind of across the board.

Yeah, we generally use the 10% across um in the case for most of the other departments that would probably be where your breakdown of cola and merit would come from. Uh in the case of the fire and police, we were using that to try to adjust and to create some of the tiers. So the the cola calculation is not in there at some point. at the board's advice as to a percentage we would like to use for cola and for merit would help me dial in especially in those uh other and Wayne you know social security is 2.3% cola this year. Oh wow.

Just so everybody's aware of what the people in social security are getting this year. So when we're throwing 5% out as a number for cola we need to be aware that most of the people in fixed income are looking at less than two and a half. Okay. Um, just real quick on WS is using 21 and just kind of curious if we were to add Starlink to all the facilities, could we save money by getting rid of I mean you know we're saying it's a redundancy but it's a fairly

not quite as fast. Um, the only location I think we could truly get rid of, our primary connection that we have now and replace it with Starlink would be the public works building because really the only person that's using the internet down there is Chris or maybe one of the guys when they're doing whatever they're doing. But for um somewhere like one of the fire departments, there's just too much traffic for that to be but a negligible cost, right? And while we're on that topic, just to uh would be helpful. We I know back in years back we went straight to all internet phones and then internet went out and fire departments couldn't talk to police and police couldn't talk to fire. That's we we want to make sure whatever redundancy we have we keep.

Yeah. Well, we still have traditional cell phones. Um we're split. We've got FirstNet for all the first responders are using FirstNet and then the admin side of the house is using Verizon. So, we have two different cell providers for some continuity there. Then we have the radios. Well, and then we have the Starlink with satellite. I'm I'm not saying anything about uh the elderly generation, but I can tell you right now, I'm not techsavvy. So, that's why we appreciate your department and we want you to keep that redundancy so we don't go through issues. We try to do everything we can to make sure that you're talking about contingency stuff. Okay. Sorry,

Ben. While you're talking about contingency, um, what do we have as far as cell phone boosters? I mean, I I see Surf Cities pop some up. We don't have a whole lot. I know it's probably a little Are you talking about in the buildings or Yeah, I mean, just as far as So, they're sitting in my office right now. We have Verizon cell boosters that we just got from Verizon free of charge. They're $1,500 a unit. Perfect. Um, and those are going to be going in all the town buildings that will boost your Verizon service. Additionally, we have AT&T cell boosters for the FirstNet side and we don't have any in this building because the service is fairly decent here, but public works and the fire departments and the metal buildings, they have those already. Okay. Those are also free of charge because they're on state contract.

Excellent. Nothing like redundancy. Correct. Thank you again, Ricky, for your work. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Now, I have no questions. I don't believe that if I if I started asking questions about the technology end of our business, then it would be uh embarrassing to me. So, thank you for what you do. Yes, sir. Thank you. You've seen Larry's computer.

That was well done. And just real quick, I know you mentioned this and subscriptions is all of our licenses and it's it's everything, right? Well, it's everything that use is used by more than one department. So, police still pays for their own. My my point is when when people look at that, we're not getting magazines. No, this is okay. No, that's my point. That's for all the town software and right Yeah. email licenses, things like that. Okay. Thank you. Excellent job. Thanks, Rick. Thank you. All right. Do we want to take a fivem minute break or do we want to keep going? It's up to you all. Mark already took his take. Okay. All right. Go ahead. We'll take a two minute break, five minute break, whatever you need.

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, Alex. Now, do we count that clock is it for Ricky to take care of? No. You look at the first off, we're not doing That's so funny because that's what I wrote on my first page. That's way too high. mil military only got like three 3% security like two one or two three and so we can't do more things when you start looking at those raises remember I showed you the compound that looks like in five years so I think that with the uh

I think about qualification you're going to you're going to figure we probably want to give you this you're going to ask for that much and you hope that So anybody% taxes Oh yeah.

works. Good morning, mayor. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the board. Appreciate your time. Um, so just to preface uh some something I heard some some of my peers say came on staff in July, so I don't have the previous budget years experience to to really dive into the minutia questions and details. I've prepared a few things hopefully to answer any concerns you have. Um, but I feel like this is a good projection moving forward of what we can do based off of what we've done since since that time in July when I came on staff. Uh, just kind of go in order for the the funds and line items. Um, phones had been previously established with this budget, but it was moved to its Ricky spoke on that with you uh prior to this briefing. uh utilities budget is the first line that one increased that was largely just looking at a uh a 10% increase in terms of cost fees issues across the board where either JoeMC or on was rates might adjust based on either usage. Um, a good example is the snowflakes. During during the holiday months, when we install the snowflakes through town, that utility bill changes based on the the utility pole access and the power we're drawn from those services. Um, M&R buildings and grounds, the previous budget year was was about $100,000 more than what I'm proposing moving forward. Uh there's there was one or two projects associated with that line last year uh between public works need a new roof which we're in the process of completing and uh some work here around the town hall facility. Uh th those moving forward uh in our plan have been adjusted to some of the capital outlay items across the budget. So so that cost difference uh isn't necessarily saved.

It's just put put in other places. uh landscaping expense is is a lot like utilities. It's projecting rate adjustments uh or increases due to extra cuts that Sanderson might execute, extra claims by the cleaning services, TNT, etc. Um so just trying to plan for those moving forward. So I'm sorry. Cleaning services is that is that public works building? I'm sorry. is cleaning services at the public works building where else you use it's it's the town hall um and I believe

okay so it's her that's why I was asking because that that's the person that this building it's just town that was my question sorry go ahead yeah uh but yeah my my apologies that was landscaping specific cleaning would be under cleaning services but but make sure I'm on track and not not speaking incorrectly uh furniture was adjusted adjusted. Uh this year's budget said it's 15,000. We haven't used that yet. Just to be clear, if you look at our current budget versus actual uh I believe with talking to the fire chief, there there was a potential for a shared cost with some of the FFN that might be associated to the fire department. This was this is uh for fire. Okay.

Furniture is for fire. So that's was goes to answer your question too. if we had planned for furniture for the fire station. That number encompasses

Yeah. So, so next year's projection for that same item um roughly similar cost but lower. I'm I'm looking at refreshing some of the the furniture and equipment that we have in public works once that building conducts its rehab and we get that facility up to date. Uh pest control is is a push remains the same. uh town sign M&R. That one I kind of kept from from this year to next year just depending on what the the board's direction is in terms of town signage in terms of both uh entry entry points to the town. U capital outlay did see a big increase that 300,000 is a projected amount uh based on the renovation or rehab that fire department number one received. I believe it was in 2024, uh, where they had the exterior, um, some electrical work, some some, uh, bay doors, and a few other things that were either renovated or rehabbed. Um, so I'm just projecting projecting that estimate that we received uh, moving forward and and kind of factoring in what might cost more in 2026, 2027. And then as far as uh lease payments, there was a rate increase with uh goodness Atlantic storage. Um but that's that's the cost increase. Th those are storage uh facilities for just storage. I don't know how else to explain that. I don't want to belver that point. Um, do you want me to run through every single budget under public works and then answer questions or should we do it like one at a time per

Okay. I just didn't want to get too too far ahead of myself and forgive me. I have to keep them separated that way I stay organized. Okay. Public works. Uh the public works department. What we're looking at moving forward in terms of uh the salary change is a uh proposed uh expansion using using that 10% across the board that's been briefed several times. Um but specifically for one promotion within the department. Um, there is a on the pay grade list that that I have observed, there's a senior public works technician grade that is not currently filled by anyone on staff. And my plan moving forward is to to promote someone that we have on staff into that position. Um, so that's the bulk of that increase in terms of monetary changes moving forward. Um employee training, we reduce that just until we get a little more clarification moving forward in terms of uh certain certifications that may or may not be needed uh by the by the town staff given the services we provide. Pest control is a good example of that. Um, I don't want to I don't want to spend the taxpayer money getting certifications on uh let's let's say mosquito abatement vector control if there's you know other options in terms of commercial ent enterprises coming in and providing those services for the town if the town were to want that type of service. Um so I just want to make sure the the juice is worth the squeeze in terms of what we're certifying in versus what we're providing to the town. um M&R and equipment.

If you notice the the previous year was 37,000 and we have bumped that to 52. It was probably about August or September. Um uh Deborah Mack from GWI and I had a conversation because that budget was almost completely run dry in terms of maintenance. Um so that was something that's received a budget increase just to get us through the fiscal year. Um, and based off of my observation and where we at currently with that budget, I I think that's a healthy number in terms of the 52,000 based on just constant maintenance of the maintenance equipment. I think is the the point I'd like to make today is is the cost to keep those machines up um or vehicles up that are con constantly being used to to maintain the town area. Uh, M&R vehicles increased as well. again a slight uptick cost adjustments thing things that we're going to use to maintain the fleet that we have. Um it was mentioned earlier some of the cost concerns of the current fleet that we do have and based off of what I hope um is occurring through the I work system is we're now capturing very very specific data in terms of what vehicles uh what maintenance at what mileages down to the piece part total. So, uh, my my hope and goal moving forward is to be able to provide the board with a report that shows not only, uh, total cost of our fleet, but down to the individual, uh, mechanic or technician, uh, in terms of labor hour charges and and parts, what that vehicle cost the town to continue to to run. Gas, oil, and tires was not adjusted based off of the current events. Um, so if we were to adjust it, I would say a little bit north of that to match the

police and fire departments. Um, however, if I look at the budget today, uh, I believe we're sitting at about 69% total total funds with what is it one quarter left in the fiscal year. U, so we're actually pretty healthy at least from the public work side. Uh there was also a question earlier about um fuel tanks being staged at different locations and public works does have two 552galon fuel tanks. One is uh just just regular commercial gasoline and the other is roadrade diesel. So, in the event we have an emergency, those are places that uh either public works or police or fire will have access to in order to to fill their vehicles and and keep operations running during emergencies. Um, office supplies, department supplies both remain the same. I think those are healthy budgets. mosquito control and expense. I I would again kind of kind of carrying over what the previous budget year brought in. I would I would ask that question to the board if if that's something moving forward that you would all wish to consider that then we'd keep it and I'll go search for vendors and see what we can do to establish those services. But I didn't want to start pushing that just due to the ecological impact of spraying in in large capacity. So I'll leave that up to the board. Uh uniforms stayed the same. Rental equipment increased just based off of my observations in the town. Um there was a few instances where we did not rent equipment and we saved the town some funds. We just did it with what we had inhouse is a little more uh laborous in terms of the manpower cost and time to completion. Uh but moving forward I I think a slight uptick to that is a is a healthy one. uh contracted services.

I'll dig back into my notes so I don't misspeak. These these largely are things like Dodson pest control. Um a few other specific items which uh which kind of line up into into that which we have them come through I believe once a month. I forget which Tuesday it is the gentleman comes through. I think that's on schedule some something that can stay. I haven't seen any pest issues in town facilities. We're currently dealing with one now, but that is beyond uh the pest control company's capabilities. That's going to be like a cleaning services thing that we have to uh see with the ventil ventilation systems. Uh dues and subscriptions. Um that came down from 3,00 to 300. I know I work I want to say falls under the IT side. So that's where most of that cost was shifted to the 300 is um I've got registration with the American Public Works Association. So I'm getting tied in with them. And then any other additional training events, certifications or or uh items that we can use to increase the public works impact to the the town is going to come from that line. Capital Outlay for public works is looking at uh two vehicles being swapped out from our fleet. Uh right now we have a C4500 dump dump truck that is a little worse for wear. It's operational. Uh but we had to put it in in the shop twice this year since I got here. Um, and then our flatbed F250 uh is is also the the worst of the vehicles that we have in our department. Those are the two ones that need the most attention. So that budget, that 155

is based off of two quotes under the state contract from uh a provider in Rally. And then my my hope moving forward is every c every couple years we replace, you know, one to two vehicles moving forward just due to specifically idle times. I know you guys drive by on the island and you see the lights flashing on the trucks. Uh we got to we got to leave those things running while those exterior safety lights are flashing. Otherwise, we kill batteries and alternators and all kinds of stuff. Um but with that, we're also burning fuel. So there's there's a related cost to us having those trucks out and visible to to keep the workers safe on the side of the rideway. Um but that's the one the one with 155 for that line item. Ricky, can you go to streets? Thank you, sir. Street lights expense uh remain routinely the same. Uh again, a lot of that uh revolves around things that we we spend uh it's not directly impacted to the the snowflakes that go up, but it ties into the that that specifically is the street lights for the town in terms of the security lights, I believe, is what's defined on the invoices um versus the electrical at the buildings. Um so that one remains routinely the same. Parking remain the same. uh M&R equipment for our street budget really hasn't been severely impacted just because uh the the street sweeper was already down and under maintenance when I arrived in July. Um and that took a few months to get back up and running. And the only other thing really uh maintenance- wise for that department or division if we're going to call it that is the VMS board making sure it's batteries and everything else P preventive maintenance is conducted on those items.

striping. And just to clarify too, you did put in there for an additional VMS board because I know that that's been discussed a lot and been brought up.

Yes, ma'am. That was uh listed under the uh capital outlay for equipment. Uh striping budget current year is 288. I'm looking at or requesting 250 for next year specifically because uh when these crosswalks start to get installed um I know that that the timeline depending on this this fiscal year versus next fiscal year those funds could look different. So, I'm just projecting that forward in terms of um the likelihood, which is the majority of those will be impacting next year's budget uh specifically under those those striping funds. Um signage again there that remains the same. That's mostly geared towards uh town park signage, things of that nature, which which is a healthy budget moving forward. um entrance signs. That's the bigger project that that we're kind of taking a look at in terms of what to do with those moving forwards, whether rehabbing them or or putting new ones in. Uh storm water is storm water street paving and repair is uh 52,000 again carrying over what was last year's budget into this. Um I would expect that to grow moving forward. Just to make the the board aware, um this pavement services uh contractor that we're looking at bringing into the town to assess the roads and give a DOT level report is going to uh forecast that moving forward in terms of uh what what budget adjustments or focus we we should have moving forward in terms of the planned roads for the town. Just make sure I didn't miss anything on that capital outlay item.

Um, capital outlay.

So, capital outlay for streets. That's again, that's going to be a mixture of the second VMS board that we're looking at purchasing uh to increase our assets for the town in that department. Um, and then it's also my my perspective is from a streets budget that if we're doing like milling and pavement on the town to to update the roads, I would look at that as a capital item. I don't know how the the board would perceive that in terms of if that's a maintenance versus installing a brand new road that's got a 10-year lifespan on it. and we have that plotted in uh capital outlay on the five-year capital sheet. So, you're going to see 150,000 plugged in. Again, the town never really addressed roadway repairs in the past. So, um we're going under contract with the company to do a full assessment. Uh so we won't know the conditions and what money will need to be put aside, but we've plugged in 150,000 going forward each year of five years to allocate some funds toward roadway repair since we know that um they're going to be needed. And you also have in capital outlay outlay um $300,000 you talked about the building public works building.

Yes. from the from the the previous budget or the previous spreadsheet 300,000 is plugged into that to mirror like he spoke to before just to mirror what we did at the uh north end fire station. So reskinning um doors, windows, that's just what we went through. So that number is plugged in for 300,000. We just approved the new roof on that. We did roof correct. Yeah, the roof is phase one. The next phase of that building rehab is redoing the other parts of the building. Correct. Chris, do you mind going back just two slides for minute purposes?

Um, yeah, this one. Okay. When I'm writing down, so I'm I'm looking at the pie chart. It says personnel, M&R, gas, and vehicles, but then it also says group insurance, M&R, gas, and vehicles. So we have is that two lines for M&R gas and vehicles within the pie chart. Where are you seeing M&R gas and vehicles? So when you look up under it says personnel M&R gas vehicles capital outlay group insurance M&R gas and vehicles. I'm just you got two slices.

Yeah. I just I want to clarify if if the percentages that those two are showing are supposed to be combined or they are they are supposed to be taken out just so when I'm reporting it in the minutes it's accurate. You got the same label for both two different items. Yeah, I think that Yeah, that I think that's a typo. Okay. Okay. And that's problem. Um I know there's it's a good catch. Yeah. Well, I knew there was the M&R equipment. That one I did see on there. I just wanted to make sure whenever I'm writing in the minutes that those are two separate since they have different amounts.

Okay. Is that Yeah, it's a typo. Okay. Should they just be combined and you need me to There be two different labels is what she's saying. Okay. No biggie. I'll I'll get you the corrected label. Totally fine. I just wanted to make sure when I reported it that I had the right ones. Yeah. Thank you for catching that. Yeah. 11:15, probably 14. See what happens when Lexi takes her medication. All right.

Sanitation. This one's very cut and dry. Sanitation contract uh increased. Uh a lot of that is based off of my observation. um specifically tied into the solid waste contract that we have with GFL throughout the town. That's that's probably the biggest impact impact to this line. Um using the schedule of fees associated to the town on the town site reconciling with GFL and Onasa. This is a little bit of a soft spot in my heart because I spent a very long time reconciling a lot of accounting lines. Um but the increase is reflecting uh a more accurate billing to the residents of the town is what it comes down to. Um there there was some disparity based off of what was physically at those locations being buaso was billing for. um we just closed the gap on that and in order to to make it tidy that that brings the budget up for us to be paying what what we should be paying and the residents paying what they should be paying. um also includes um

everybody when you're when you're looking at it went up $130,000 which is 30% correct that is what we are paying in total not net of what customers are paying us

correct so so for for us to project what those cart adjustment totals change to based off of GFL's delivery of carts in December, January if I remember correctly. Um that's just bringing us up to that level of what they validated in January as being delivered and on WASA has adjusted their their invoices to reflect um that also incorporates uh bulk bulk pickup as well. So if any any instances where uh with onasa I'm sorry. What does that have to do with OnWasa

there? So Onwasa uh invoices the customer because it's associated to the water meter that's at that address and bills me directly. Correct. So you're saying then you you basically compare Anasa to what GWI is telling you. Anwasa doesn't bill us for anything except for own water. The when I say bill, I mean the resident. I'm speaking on the so the resident receives the bill from Anwasa. Anwasa, right, does does their billing for for their services and then whatever is left on their record. I know I'm on that board. That's why I'm asking because I'm like the only thing they could be doing for us is verifying that address of those people, right? Nothing else,

right? Am I missing something? Maybe I misspoke or

I know. Yeah. So, so the the issue was we we were paying GFL for a larger amount of carts versus what the residents were actively being build for. That was the gap. So, so the town was paying for services that residents were receiving instead of the residents paying for services through the town. Mayor Grant, can we put the mics on? So, what you're talking about there's a gap between what we were collecting from residents or what what we should have gotten net. So, correct. All right. Got it. Yeah. Specifically, this So, this would also be offset by revenue, too. Correct. Yeah.

That's my That's where I'm going with it. I'm like, it can't go up $130,000 for us because in theory, it should be a net net, right? What we're saying here is is that there will be a corresponding increase in revenue, Wayne, to offset the increase in cost. Correct. So on a net net in theory if they're tied together there should be a zero impact to us. Yes. Yeah. We have made the correction on on both sides after the Okay. I'm just looking at increase in expenses and I'm like what? Yeah. What you're saying is basically it's a net net to us. You're just correcting something was out there. The the bulk of it will be net net. There are services that the town pays for specifically and it reflects what the new contract is.

Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I just got blown away by that number.

Yeah, it was I had I had to check it a few times, make sure I was uh I was math correctly. Uh the tipping fees and bulk pickup again relatively the same. That that corresponds with like the large debris pile pickups uh for our what is it? Spring, fall, and summer pickups. Um, and then any additional pickups that might be impacting the town, like we had that King's Tide in October with the Nor Easter, and I believe that was about three 30-yard dumpsters and one extra dump truck that took to clear all the debris off the beach. So, um, that's what those funds support moving forward for that budget. All right, last one. Recreation the uh snowflakes budget increase that was relatively the same for what we had this fiscal year. Um it's just a a production cost increase that's that's projected. Um, I have a a plan. I can go into detail if there's questions, but there's a plan to uh psy cycle the snowflakes through our inventory year to year to where we're not spending so much time, uh, rehabbing some of these snowflakes that have been around longer than I have. So, um, park maintenance, uh, increased. That's just again specifically what my eyes have taught me since I've been here. There's there's going to be a lot of uh added uh maintenance and repair around the park areas. Um specifically some of the like the boardwalk areas for the town parks and things of that nature. Um those can get impacted by that as well. Landscaping remains the same. I think that's a healthy budget moving forward. The bike path I didn't touch just because I'm awaiting guidance or direction in terms of how we want to

approach that or or move moving forward. Um special events did increase uh just

oh I'm sorry I did I was flipping the page and then I just completely bypassed it. uh M&R dock and Boardwalk that's specifically going to going to be looking at any sort of major overhaul renovations that we're doing like at the Dolphin Shores location is an example. Um so the Nullles Park boardwalk and dock is probably one that I would recommend us taking a look at. We've done a few smaller repairs recently. Um but that one that one I I would recommend re receiving a a rehab. Um, and then the the two at Richard Peters Park. Uh, that's something that I've I've kind of had my eye on is either improving the the sound accesses that the the city or the town has, excuse me. Um, and putting those on some sort of renovation plan moving forward. Um, excuse me, turned my page and I wasn't done. special events uh is geared primarily towards the Christmas tree lighting ceremony, but there's also uh h Halloween. Um I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two others, but those are the two biggest ones that stuck in my mind this last year. uh that that tree alone, we've we've got some ideas moving forward in terms of weatherproofing it and improving it so that it's not so aggravated when the the rain hits it because it's water water resistant is not waterproof, right? Um so that's where that budget is focused upon. And then park supplies is just general supplies in terms of uh fire ant control, wasp killer, um other entities, whether it's, you know, toilet paper goods or things of that nature in those facilities. Um and that that takes care of the recreation budget. Any questions? I know that was a lot.

Yes, sir. Yeah, that's a lot of information. Good job breaking it all down. Um, biggest question, are are you fully staffed? Yes. And I saw personnel only on like one of the slides, but obviously that goes across all the realms that you're dealing with. Um, other than that, I'm good. Thank you. I really don't have any questions. I think

Yes, sir. meets the road here.

All right. Um, so a lot of talk has been about the town signage and we're getting back into the building and a lot of questions for the south end sign. I saw the the 250,000 line item and capital outlay. I mean, is that what we're estimating? Cost 250,000 from from which I I thought I saw 250. That was a striping. I had 250 in striping. Well, the the the addition of a sign of message sign. That was a small one you had up there. Yeah. Yeah. That was under the I'm just flipping back through my

my budgets. Uh VMS that should be under streets. Streets. Yeah, that was the 224 or 224,000 VMS board was was the primary focus for for that budget line. But that's also again I I kind of turn that back to the board in terms of if we're completely repaving roadways in the town, are we looking that as a capital item versus a a maintenance and repair budget line? Um, just again from a life cycle standpoint, I know that's an investment for a long-term asset. So, I would I would defer the board. I'd rather ask for it and then get told it needs to be somewhere else um than to not ask and miss it completely.

So, basically, this is almost like a new bucket to us not really having any money allocated towards street repair. Correct. I mean given the current budget the striping I I can see the intent moving in that direction to for me it was just crosswalks

and we've done um to address the street paving uh we've done street paving repairs this past year I think we did a um it was more on the north end river drive area we did a large section um that goes onto the drive on area um and that's really the only repair work that's been done. But knowing that we needed to start, the town needs to start planning for that. Um, he plugged in an initial number because we don't know what the assessment's going to be yet that the contractor is going to come back with when they do a full survey and surveying every uh every road and let us know what the conditions are. So, we plugged in and um into capital um $150,000 uh for street paving and repair going forward for the next five years. Now, that can be adjusted um again once you know the full assessment from the contractor that

that would largely determine the the total. Yes. And when will that become I mean when is that?

So, it's contingent upon award. Right now, I've got two two estimates that I've received. um one one from a a contractor we've we've already worked with in terms of town projects. Uh the first was a a contact from a pavement conference that I attended in Newburn with a multitude of DOT staff. Um, so we're waiting a third, but but once that is approved and that's scheduled and they do their complete assessment, um, the the the plan is for them to come and provide a brief and presentation to the board with their findings to where it's not just me saying this is what I think. It's it's the certified professionals, so I'll defer to them. And we're talking about these the like the sign that's out here by town hall. Is there are there have there been any issues with that sign as far as maintenance and and upkeep is

not not this main sign you're talking about the digital board? Not not that I'm aware of. Um when when we're looking at either the signs, budget lines or any type of M&R, it's it's mostly like um for example, the beach access signs that we just executed our order for to make sure we've got accurate signage to the beach accesses. Um and then updating signs on the north end. And I know that drive on access the tide likes to take some of some of our signs they'll wash up a month later. Um but we we still got to replace them in the time being. So no programming issues. Remember that. Um

you talked about Atlantic storage. What's what sort of if you don't mind me asking you how how big of a storage unit are we talking? What sort of equipment are we storing off island? Um, so there's three if and I don't have my notes sitting right in front of me. So, but but the the ones I have notes on is there's three there and it's largely either files, there's a little bit of furniture, some some extra chairs and things of that nature that we have on hand. Um, and then there's a lot of uh Christmas decorations, the tree, uh, the large ornament that you saw out front, and a few other specific items that are um, climate controlled and stored. and one is police

and two are town related. One has largely um files in it that have to be retained, right? And then um the Christmas stuff with all the events that we and it's just all looped under. Okay. Public works. Yep. Because public works facility isn't large enough to Yeah, I know. No. To house trying to do the best we can. Yes. I don't have any more space. And we talked about the two public works vehicles. Um you said it was 155,000 um for the flatbed 250 and a dump truck is also I mean we're talking Yep.

Yeah. It's a So right now it's a it's a C4500. Um it's a crew cab diesel. It's got a 14 foot uh dump bed on it. It's a great tool for us to have in terms of the large pickups up and down. Um it just I'm shooting from the hip. I want to say that that's a 2014 may probably a little bit older than that. Um, and it's got well over 100,000 miles on it. Um, it just operationally I can't rely on it if we're doing another nor easter Tide event. Uh, that thing went down pretty quickly and we had to resort to the smaller trucks which made it much more strenuous.

I'm not questioning the parts of just the price. It just seems like 150 thou 155,000. That's both both combined for the F250 and the dump bed. Yes, sir. Seems like a pretty good price. It very good. That's a state contract that that I have uh been corresponding with. We're just waiting on direction moving forward for that. And then again, hopefully, you know, two trucks every couple years. I won't stress that enough because of the beach time and maintenance issues that come with that. So,

uh, look, I I appreciate your your thoughtfulness and your report and again, as I've complimented the staff in the public safety and it I don't know if I thanked our IT staff, but, uh, thank you and your staff. Like I said, I see them out there doing a lot of work, especially during the snowstorm when they were, you know, driving up and down and scraping the roads. U, thank you to your staff as well and thank you for your report. And there was no plow in the budget. Hi, thank you for your report. Um, I have a couple questions now. For staffing, you said you would like to promote somebody to a higher position, but you don't need to hire anybody else as well. No, ma'am.

All right. Very good. And with the signs, just to be clear on that, 5,000 was going for just your random signs that you need to replace here and there. Yes, ma'am. And the 20K would be going for like the sign we have out here, theformational sign. Is that what a BMS board is for the entrance signs that that 20k is more geared towards the physical north welcome to North Topsel Beach sign? There's one at the bridge and then down at Scotch, those wooden ones. Mhm. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I'm not in favor of that at all. Um Whoops. Didn't mean to bubble that. Um for mosquito control, you said um you were going to do a little more research in there. And this isn't a question. And this is just something that I have noticed that some of the other uh municipalities, especially larger ones like Raleigh and there's a lot of South Carolina ones, when you do look into that um that the places that provide services that a lot of them are now going to the ecofriendly so you're not putting in all that horrible chemicals just if you look into that. And let's see, roadway repairs. No. you answered that one. Nope, that's all I Oh, nope. Um, anyways, thank you very much for your report. Excellent job.

Thank you, ma'am. Larry, question. You may have said something about this and I might have missed it, but Yes, sir. How many how much asphalt do we have that's not state maintained? Goodness. So, I don't have the the roads report sitting right in front of me. I approximately six miles worth of worth of asphalt. When you when you add up all the avenues and side streets and whatnot together, it's taking away Island and North uh New River Inlet Road, it's it's about six maybe six and a half miles total.

Do we have do we have any type of plan uh timewise when these things we think that they're going to need to be That's where it's getting done. That's what that conditioning survey will be. That's what's happening now. Yeah, that's that's the business getting. Okay. So, is is are are funds are funds being put away for any of those types of projects or are they just as needed?

As as needed. That's that's kind of the push for the streets budget in the in that capital fund is is starting to I phrased it differently. The the way the the fire department stated like we're paying ourselves moving forward, planning on spending that type of money. My my intuition tells me from a roads perspective that sum is going to be quite large when it when it is identified in terms of what we need. U because those roads are the the arteries of this town. They Well, and that's that that was my question I think because you know it it's a it's if we're are we just putting band-aids on things or is it stuff that when it happened it's it's cold now.

Yes sir. We're we're we're bandating it right now if if I'm being frank. when when when the issues are identified, first assessment is, can we do it in-house? Um because if we can cut a patch and and reinstall and get it compacted to prevent, you know, the the residents from tearing up their cars while they're driving up and down the roads, uh we do we do the best we can. But some of these projects, especially, you know, the north end, not to belabor the point, but the north end's got some areas that the four of us with the best intentions would it would take us a half a year to fix ourselves. And and that's going to probably be a larger project. I think that's what we're talking about almost creating a new bucket because uh this is going to have to be something that's annual

I think planning where we're that's the kind of thing that we want to be able to get ahead of to where we have some kind of a a number that we think we're going to need and some kind of time frame to where we can start putting it into a budget so that whenever it gets to be done we got the money and don't have to go look for it. Yes sir. I'm a little bit lost on the on the north end stuff though because where does the state route stop? Right. Right. The state you're on the tiki bar still on the state route. I think the state route goes all the way to where it changes from New River inlet Road to River Road and River Road is what runs the last 90° turn before you go to the access. So where we gain That's what I thought. Beach Club, right?

Yeah. So we're still in that. So the state's got to do all that although their reservicing plan is on the sidelines. So they would repave New River Inlet Road, but they wouldn't they wouldn't terminate terminate off of that and hit things like Coastal or Oyster or some of those other I understand all that, but I thought the the main problem up there was on was on New River Inlet. When I ride up there, I don't I don't see that much damage in the sides. I would say River Road to the to the termination point where you drive on to that beach at BA3. The the 90 Yeah, the 90 Cameron's house. That's that to me if if I were boss for a day that would be my recommendation is start there just just based off of the worst for wear and

and that's what we've brought up years ago was uh you know New River Road nobody realizes you know they have the 30 mph sign there now which or the 20 mph sign there and the speed limit and everybody takes the corner they're doing you know if they're doing 10 miles an hour taking that curve but so many people don't take that curve and that's maybe a recommendation we need to talk about is we've talked about the speed bumps and yada yada but you the worst case when season hits, possibly even put up a sign that says uh detour local traffic only on Seagull because the fact of the matter is the state replaces all New River inlet road and we have to repair seagull.

Yeah. I I think the only thing is we were at one time we were talking about the bike path which now if it's $10 million we're probably not talking about it because to me it would the logical part of that is if they're going to resurface New River Inlet. We just tag on and get that extra piece done and pay that difference. That's a that's a big difference in us doing a standalone project. I can I can inquire that with the Jumbo people were supposed to check on that. They'll check on the next meeting as to and I believe I believe that anything in the utilities department that's our that's our problem and not the state's problem.

We are we need to know so that we can start you know beginning to get some ideas and you're the person who's going to have to provide that to us. Yes sir. of of what kind of funds that we would need if we had to do all that so that we can make sure that we can create some kind of or try to create some kind of funds where we have a a rainy day type situation and such when that happens we can go ahead and do it and not have to peace meal because some of that looks like it's been peacemeal a lot of times. Yes. Yeah. That's that's ultimately the intent behind that that pavement condition expert to come. That's what we'll need to talk about because I think I think it's important that we do that. So, walk me out. My turn. Yes, sir. Where is the police department EOC in your budget?

It's not capital. So, we haven't seen that yet. It's Yes, it's in the capital improvement.

Okay. All right. For some reason, I was thinking it was here. The other thing too is with with the vehicles and stuff we're talking about, one of the things we ought to be thinking about is whether we should lease this stuff rather than buy it because the cash hit on these type of things is going to be a huge number for us. For example, I know that Holly Ridge leases their police vehicles, and I'm not saying to do that. And there and from an economic standpoint, it may not be better on a net present value basis to, you know, to lease versus buy, but to the extent that we can have payments over f I'll use the firetruck as a example. Put out 1.8 million or put out 1.8 million with 0% interest over 10 years, I'll go with the second one. Um,

and one of the things that Doug Carter's talked to us about is in some of those things we ought to be looking at doing financing to hold on to our cash. So, I think that's something we ought to be taking a look at as we're going forward, Wayne. Um, just to look at the options. So, thank you very much.

Yes, sir. Yeah. Uh, I'll go ahead and do uh hit the highlights on inspections first. We added a couple um uh $3,300 for uh cabinets for under equipment. And I could see it better when I was sitting down. I'm sorry. Um,

you're asking for less money.

I'm not asking for anything. uh the uh there was an overall decrease uh due to the settlement agreement and I think that there was one other thing. Oh uh training was increased uh for inspections for the deputy town clerk for those qualifications. So that's I know that's pretty standard. Is there any questions on inspections? It's all cut and dry, straightforward. If we can go to U Oh, you got planning up there already. So planning I think was all status quo. Um I don't think we requested any additional funds for anything. Any

one thing one thing to add um this doesn't have to do with the expenses but more on the revenue side is that we talked about taking a look at the fee schedule this year. Yes. Um, so at a future meeting that will be brought to the board um for potential adjustments to the fee schedule. Yes. Yep. Yes.

Enjoy your lunch. There you go. facility Chick-fil-A. That's an anecdotal thing. They had a meeting was going on and on and and uh Sharon was a county manager at that time and she said, "I don't mean to interrupt anybody, but the food's here." Okay. And that shut down all the conversation. Everybody ate lunch. So, we've got there's administration. Uh then there's just a couple of small ones like I um the requests from outside agencies.

So we'll we'll go over the outside agency requests when we regroup and then go from there.

Let's just keep working then. All right. So people want a sandwich.

Goodness.

All right, we're back live and Alice, it looks like you're up.

Yeah. Okay. So before we broke broke, I said that we would first delve into and this is in the proposed budget under governing body. Um what we will need uh feedback on from the board. I've received um requests from outside agencies and this falls under donations to other agencies. You can see that we've got in the budget. The current year budget was 13,500 which consisted of donations to the Ocean City Jazz Festival for 10,000 and then the remainder of that to the Chamber of Commerce, the Greater Topsel Area Chamber of Commerce. this year. Um, I have received requests from the Greater Topsole Area Chamber of Commerce once again who is requesting um three $3,000 and plus an additional 500 for marketing the area. So, 3500 total. Um, and then a $5,000 request from Share the Table, which is new, and also a request from the Ocean City Jazz Festival for $20,000.

Um, and last year's request for the allocation to the Jazz Festival was $10,000. So, um, thoughts from the board? Let me I'll take the first one. So, and Mark, I'm gonna direct this at you. Uh, what is the benefit of the Chamber of Commerce to us? I mean, besides showing up, because we've had this discussion every year, right? Because Joanne was like, why are we why are we doing anything? And

you're you're the you're the business person sitting here. What's what's the benefit that we get from them? Well, I'm no politician and uh some things I say might take county officials off and everybody else, but uh I think the Chamber of Commerce I think uh about six years ago they came down and we were meeting in the Northshore Country Club and they presented and uh the board was pretty much cold shoulder to them. Um I really and truly think it it helps benefit the town. Uh gets our name out there more. um just like you know when we spend money at the Lowe's in Surf City that we don't see that money back. It stays in Penrook County and Surf City. So I I personally think that uh being associated with the chamber is a good thing. But that's my personal opinion and that's coming from a commercial side. So uh just take that with a grain of salt, but that's where I stand.

And then just real quick and then I'll turn it to other people. Ocean City was 10 last year, correct? Uh, and they've requested 20, right? Chamber was two last year. You don't have to tell me. It wasn't 35, was it? No, they were um 1,500 last year. That's right. Um, share the tables new. Yes.

Um, I think the rest of the stuff is just regular regular twos. I think the So where does and I I should note TISPC is in here too? No, we don't pay dues to TISPC. Let's just go Oh, we just pay directly to the uh to to the lobbying firm. Yes. And that's under a different fund.

Okay. That that's what I was looking at. The only thing I need right now is feedback from the board on how you want to move forward with these agencies if you want to what you want allocated if any to these three agencies. Okay. Go ahead, Larry. Will you repeat the amounts of money?

Sure. Um, Ocean City Jazz Festival has requested 20,000 and 10,000 was provided in this year's budget. The Greater Topsole Area Chamber of Commerce, this year's allocation was 1,500. They are requesting 3500. And Share the Table, which is new this year, is requesting support of $5,000. So, we've not we've not donated to them before. Correct. And they want 5,000. Yes.

So, as a matter of practice, has is what was the total amount of money that we paid last year? 13,500. 13,500. And now they're wanting 18,500. 28. 28,500. Oh yeah. Yeah. Uh why why is jazz festival needing so much more money? So you got to be careful on the board.

The board the board the Ocean City uh beach citizens council separate from the jazz festival. I I don't participate in the jazz festival um organization. I volunteer and help out with it. Um, unfortunately with some of the budget cuts that have been coming from the federal and state um, governments, the the Jazz Festival is in jeopardy of not being able to fully fund the event. And since it is our only large scale event that we do have on the island that does draw people from around the region, um, I I think it's it promotes the community well. Um, it promotes the town well. It promotes the Ocean City Beach community well and um I think on top of the the staff assistance that the and the IT support that the town provides which you know is above that I would say uh I think it's hard for me to assign a dollar amount because yeah I I would like to see more money but I also understand that we have to be good stewards of the community's money and I I think if people that have attended the the jazz festival can realize the quality of the festival that occurs, I think it's ultimately trying to fill shortfalls that have been uh popping up.

Bottom line is that they're looking for somebody to throw in some extra money. Who who what uh what's the largest amounts that people donate? Oh, there's huge amounts. Yeah. They got big sponsors that are what 50 grand? I mean, they got they got some big sponsor. They have some different sponsors, but I don't I think they've even been dropping back as well. And I and I wish I had spoken to the organizer to get more information. I will try to get more specifics to help feed your The only reason I ask doubling is pretty st pretty that's pretty steep, you know, just when you double it. Okay.

Uh I mean, I I don't know. I mean, I think that I think the chamber is something that that we we need we almost have to be a part of. I think that's a a civic thing that we almost have to do. And and I think that the Share the Table is a good organization. They do a lot of good stuff with what they've got. Uh but that's that's just a matter of whether the board wants to participate in that. U I mean I I I I can't put a dollar value on the jazz festival. I think that we we need to support it because it's it's part of us. Whether it ought to be double or not, I don't know. I mean, I just think that's that that's pretty steep when you go from 10 to 20.

And I just add too with the jazz festival um this year in particular is their sweet 16. Um, so I know that, you know, it's a special year for them and they were planning additional additional things to go along with that. Okay. Now, this being Now, this being our first rodeo, so to speak, is this part of this year's budget, next year's budget? What are we We're already in for 10 this year. This is this is this is next year.

My My concern here is too is uh I've been through this a few times with other organizations. As soon as you start handing money out, the next thing you know, next year we're going to be sitting here with 20 different organizations wanting to see if they can throw their hat in the ring. Hey, maybe we get it, maybe we don't. So, this is not our money. This is a taxpayers money. So, I really think that we need to concentrate on focus on anything that has to do with North Topsel Beach first. Okay. I'm going to weigh in on this one. Um, do you want to go? Yeah. Go ahead.

Sorry. Okay. Um, as far as Ocean City goes, I would fully support doubling it. And this is why. Because besides it being historic, besides it being a real feather in our cap, it also brings in money to as f name recognition for our town. money as far as accommodation taxes, as far as spending a lot of money that goes to the town or to the county and then we get some of that back. I feel like the benefits really outweigh the cost. We've been giving them $10,000. I think um 20,000 especially that this year is going to be a stellar year for them. And if if you don't realize it, which I think everybody on the board does, Ocean City was one of, if not the first place on the East Coast that African-American people were allowed to own property. Um, it's got such a history and it's been recognized with the historic trail markers and um, I think that and actually they're not just a part of this town. the town's more of a part of them. They This town's only been incorporated since the early 90s. And anything we can do to support that and there is a benefit to us financially, I'm good with that. As for the chamber, I do agree that we need to to keep with them. We don't get as much benefit from them as the other towns do. No,

because we have a lot just just a tiny percentage of of uh businesses, commercial entities where the other towns have a lot and and being where it's centrally located, the different events and stuff that the chamber has. Occasionally they'll have something down here and they will have it over at uh like the St. Reges. They've had I think they had like a casino night or something. They do some stuff down here. So, I don't want to cut them off, but I don't really want to go to the 3500. I', you know, 2500 I'd go up to. That's just me. And share the table. Share the table is awesome. Um to start them out at 5,000 though. I'd do about half that just to that's a nice little chunk of change. And we do um have them setting out here during the summer collecting the extra food. They're an awesome organization. I don't know that I want to give them uh 5,000, but that's just me. I'm only one board member. And now I'm done.

Sorry, Rick. Outside of Share the Table as well, I think they're a great organization. Um I recently donated some some to them as well. Um I I'd like to know what sort of benefit how they serve. I I recognize that we're supporting our neighbors and other communities.

If you let me go, that's we That was going to be my question. We participate in share table. So um Lisa and I are part of Kowuanas and as part of Kuanas once a month we go and we donate the food and we do share the table. When we started doing those meals, they're for people that need them. We had about 70 people come and get meals. It's 250 now in the last couple years from from this area everywhere. So what this are this this is literally these people that's their Sunday meal when they come in. Um, and so we've seen it there. Now, in terms of giving them $5,000, if we started with $1,000 with them, I'm probably okay to make a difference on the chamber. I wouldn't go above the 1500 that we're giving them now. I I don't see the benefit. When I look at Ocean City, we only have, no offense to the puppies, is we only have one event here. Um, any one significant event in this town. We have an historic area of the town. Um, and I actually just, you know, have written a letter, I know Kip has too, to the county asking for money for them as well. Um, and Kip and I talked about this. I happen to be doing meeting with with that group. And I expressed concern, and you and I talked about it about funding for this thing, uh, about whether and my view, I know on the on the Jazz Festival is a simple one. if they skip a year, it's probably dead. I think that's a that's a bad I mean, Alice, I think you agree with that, too. We've talked about it. Um, if you look at all these donations of other agencies, you know, in a $15 million budget, we're talking about $25,000. And I agree 100% with that, but we have nothing like that in this town. Um, that's similar to what the Jazz Festival is and what it means to this town. Um, I would be fine with 20, especially because I'm going to be asking the county for more than that. So, you know,

if we go if we go too low, it's going to look pretty bad. And I I think that they they will. We got 10,000 from them a couple years ago from the county to fix the uh the walk. Um and I think they do appreciate that. If it was me, we could if we were going to do share share the table, I'd probably start them at a thousand. It it that probably feeds over 100 people. Um and I would encourage people to go to their facility. It's pretty interesting. It's not just meals. They actually have a pantry that you go into. Um, and when we're doing the meals with them, you go in there and they allow them to shop and they can pick up anything they want with canned goods and everything else. And so people live leave there literally filling their pantry when they go home. Um, I have been amazed at what those people do with how little they have. Um, and so I think that's a good one. Chamber I would kick at 1500. I have absolutely no problem with $20,000 for the JS festival because I think that that's something again my concern is if there ends up being a funding issue because of all this money being we really don't want that to go away in this town. We really don't want it to go away. So I'll get off my heart because you know I am I I watch the pennies on this stuff but if it was you know and and Lisa and I contribute to that too but that's beside the point. It's just it's it's about Ocean City. It's about what this area of our town is and a very important part of it. So,

so, so what you're proposing is that we raise it raise I have no problem $11,000. Give us an idea how much how much is the budget for that? It's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, right? I mean, they bring in real talent there. Yeah, this is not it's a couple hundred,000. I don't have the the exact I'm not debating whether whether it's a good event. I understand you're doubling up. How much money are we want to spend? Right. But I don't think in the past, Alice, before last year, did we give anything to the jazz festival besides helping out? Yes. Besides even so, it's been the town's historically um thousand. Yeah. Always given a financial donation, but the amounts varied. Okay. Thank you. What are your feelings on this? You know, you've been you see what happens with

I mean, I think they're, you know, a key part of the community and um you know, we've always supported them and everything that they do. Um the financial part aside, um I know all of staff works, public works, it's an all on board event. Um public works, police, fire, um myself helps to coordinate whatever is needed. Um it's, you know, really for $20,000 talking about it. So, you know, I I I think that you even if you don't vote, are you okay with 20 for them, Mark?

Well, I are we allowed to do a vote here for motions or anything? No. No. This is just about giving in consensus and you don't this doesn't even have to be Ocean Ocean City is the whole I've got no problem on it. It this is just a number. What do you want plugged in for the initial forecast to be ran and for at the next meeting in April, you can revisit this topic? Just going just going around the table, I'd say 20,000 and then uh 1,500 for what we've been doing for uh the Chamber of Commerce and then uh I would start out show table with a thousand with Rick's recommendation. That's me next. It's just a forecast. So

we don't need to. You're up. Okay. I mean, I mean, I'm fine. I mean, you got more money than I do.

I think it's a good deal. I I don't I I I think it's Why is the chamber increasing? Why is the chamber Does they have a We cut them, Larry. That's where they're increasing. Do they Do they have a Do they have a a tier that you go to? different money. No, this is what they've um requested based on, like I said, uh $1,500 is what we gave them last year. Um they're requesting a 3,000 commitment, financial commitment, then 500 specifically set aside for marketing um for their marketing. Yeah. Well, for marketing for the all the towns.

Well, then we pay what have we been paying? 1,500, 1500. We're staying involved. It's just I mean, we only we're not really commercial. I mean, we only have what, maybe five businesses on the in the whole town. Maybe they put together information like visitors guides and all the marketing information that you see out there that speaks about Toppsel Island. Um, you know, they they've spearheaded all of that. Well, I mean, we got we have to do something there because they, you know, they they had they had the option that if you're giving less money to give you less coverage. You know, there's nothing technically in there that makes them do that.

Well, let's just let's just run. I mean, look, we're gonna have to we're to be honest with this group, we're going to be making cuts anyway. So, let's just run the numbers and see what they look like. Yeah, exactly. Because I mean, we're on the outskirts of the major part of where their uh advertising is going. Um, so it's it's kind of like we're on deck and we're not really seeing a huge benefit because we are not an overly commercialized area. Okay, we're good. Alice, go ahead.

Okay. Well, that's um pretty much wraps up governing bodies. So, that's what I wanted to address. Um Wayne, did you want to you want to pull up the spreadsheets and we can walk through that? that you had said you wanted to go through administration next, correct? Yeah, administration. Administration is fine. I think that's the other main one.

Uh yeah, do administration. Get over there. some of the things, you know, I briefed on during my initial uh report on the economic overlook. Um but uh we can go through line by line.

Yeah. Um so we'll start in the the salary and personnel. Um basically right now we're as far as administration uh what we're proposing is uh we currently have uh the existing positions uh the town manager, town clerk, finance officer, uh the newly created accountant. Um but we also proposed including right now and uh through a agency we have an account accounts payable administrator uh that has been working with us um through Roth temporary agencies.

Uh and when we went into that contract we went into it with uh the possibility of that uh being converted to full term. So the timing of doing that would be good to do it in the new year. uh we're currently we have him as a temp through June I believe or to like the beginning of July. So it would coincide with the calendar. So that's really the only major personnel change um would be bringing that position uh into the mix as a full-time position. That's the accounts accounts payable.

Yeah. Uh accounts payable administrator. So okay, we already know my question. If we go back if we stop doing a paid we stopped doing a run every week and we cut that back. I understand we've got stuff that you have to cut out like that, right? But you know this just she's not here but you already know that the question with Laura was going to ask is if you cut that back, right? Um,

yeah. I mean, cutting back how often we mail out checks, the the volume of bills, invoices, vendors, and things that we're playing is is not going to go down. Um, and also as I listen to some of the potential projects and things that we got proposed coming up, um, keeping in mind everything that we're doing, processing those invoices and paying those vendors is this person. Uh, so I would be more than comfortable in saying that is a full-time job. Uh, prior to Mark, GWI had uh, one person dedicated to that solely. Um so again it it is definitely the workload is full-time and with the upcoming potential projects again paying all those vendors all the invoices paying all the bills in general

but but you have him coming on as an employee or as a contract person he is a contractor right now I understand that but there's a huge proposal is to bring him on as an employee uh starting at the first of the year because you know the benefit of having be a contract employee is if if it's 20 hours a week It's 20 hours a week. If it's an employee, you're paying them full-time. And I just know the issue about pay accounts payable, you know, because we've talked about this odd nauseium is I don't think we got to be doing check runs as fast as much as we're doing. I'm no company I've ever worked for does them like we're doing. Now, I understand that has a lot to do with contracts that preceded everybody here and those kind of stuff, but it's something that we at least need to look at because I know Laura's going to bring it up in the next meeting. So, you might as well be prepared.

Yeah. And we we've discussed the as far as the processing and mailing of the checks moving to bi-weekly as long as it doesn't there's a couple vendors that it may cause an issue with uh that we would have to deal with. Uh but again it isn't going to reduce whether we issue the checks bi-weekly or weekly. The overall volume say on a monthly basis that we're processing is still going to be the same. It's just a matter of when we issue them and mail them out. But but you you understand under that theory we could do a check run every day and still have that same document. Yeah, I do. Or you could have once a month and you still have the same argument. So it's right. All I'm saying is something we need to look at. Okay. Right. And on the payroll side, are we have we outsourced payroll now?

Right now? You mean as far as that position like? No. No. Are we how are we doing our payroll now? We we talked about that some time ago about having done by ADP or somebody. We we have the contract for review. We're at the point Alice and I have been working together to pretty much I think sign off on it, but then uh the next decision is going to be like the time frame for implementation. You can't you can't expect staff to go through um an implementation with ADP right now when we're trying to do put together the budget stuff. All I'm doing is I know what the questions are going to be in the next meeting. So you ought to be ready for them. Is Oh, I'm ready.

Yeah. Yeah. And and and honestly, uh I know that was kind of a separate question, but that the payroll is not a process of this position. He's full-time pay paying the bills. Okay. Yeah. Um and and the the the only concern I have is if if we keep it as a contracted position is turnover. Uh these folks come in generally speaking looking to eventually be a full-time job. And if if we keep him as a temporary uh or anybody else, we probably will lose them. And then you're going through the constant retraining cycle. And my last question, contracted services, I'm assuming you don't have GWI anymore.

Yeah, the contracted services line, if you look, has gone down significantly. A large part of that was this previous year was the GWI contracts. Um, yeah. There's nothing incorporated for GWI to do any work forward going forward other than what you already contracted them for. What about Carter? Are they in there? Um, Carter um is Yes. Yeah. Yes, we have them incorporated.

I just want to make sure I think that a mistake that we made is a board that is not a reflection of a staff is that we should have kept Carters on board. um on a continual basis just to give us advice on some of the financing stuff that they were able to they saved us millions else when you spearheaded getting all the refinancing and the stuff done and we're going into a period right now um with like you said Wayne with projects and everything else we need to have somebody that can uh you know get debt for us get all those type of things and and Carters have like I said I can't remember I can never find that slide Alice but I think when red did the USDA contract it was millions of dollars saved in interest. Yeah.

So, I mean, just as a quick highlight, um line by line, most of these uh did not change. We kind of carried them forward. Just your general expenses, postages, office supplies, things like that. Um really the only changes we're adding that position. uh the the big reduction in the contracted services related to GWI and um I think that's about it. Um

yeah, it's fairly flat other than those changes. Uh a little bit more I believe there was in the um uh the dues and subscriptions or related to training, but just some of the certifications for uh the clerk, for myself, uh things like that. um that will be coming up like my eligibility to go into financial officer certification would be I think the next round of classes is is like July or August. Now we do a this has happened in the past because we didn't really have that structure in the budget. If we had to do a lot of reclassifications on stuff like it was sitting in somebody's budget now it's in somebody else's budget and we did that didn't we do that last year a fair amount when

most of those I believe were taken care of last year from what I can see all addressed last year the I think the few Yeah, the few minor ones um the department heads addressed like the the spectrum moving to Ricky and things. So, there weren't a lot of expense reclassifications this time. I think you you all cleaned it up fairly well last year. I cleaned up any other questions. Sorry. So, GWI is included in the salaries line. Is that what we're saying? No, no, no. GWI is out of the budget after Yeah. this next year's budget. They're not in it at all. So salaries was 608 372 and is going down to 583 and

yeah there were a couple other there was another position in there last year um that is not in it now. Um so yeah there is there is actually a little bit of a reduction. Um sorry when you said 10% and then it goes down 4%. That's what I was trying to figure out the math. Uh yeah, the way it worked out without that position that the difference in some of the folks that were here that have retired uh versus what the new positions are, it actually does come to to a slight reduction. Uh now I did uh caveat, I did uh make the assumption of a town manager salary at the salary that you all brought in the interim. Now I being aware that that could be different, but we're not going to know.

That was the assumption right now. Know until they get back to us. Yeah. So, yes, you're correct. Thank you. No, I'm good.

Okay. Um, the other couple categories that uh are not specific to apartment u a department. Let me see if I can pull this up real quick. I believe the only other one um very general and vague I think. Is it insurance? Ricky, do you have one? I don't even know. We may not have done a slide. Um I do not have one for insurance. Well, inspe inspection was dead, but yeah.

The what? Oh, the five-y year dep Okay, that's the last one. Um, honestly, for the insurance, Alice kind of touched on it in her opening comments. Um, you're you're covering uh your your workers comp. Um, just the different insuranceances that we have. And we assumed a 10% increase just based on general market comments, comments that um even in working with the company that we uh have our benefits through. Uh she's saying to expect about a 10% increase in in most insuranceances, probably hitting around August is is when she was saying, which would be in next year's budget. So that's why I accounted for that as a 10% increase for insuranceances in general. Um, no other changes there. Uh, the last part, I don't know, do you want to address the five-year?

Yeah, there it is. Before we get to that, um, one thing that, and while I'm doing that, can you pull up the five-year projection, um, the one thing I did want to get some feedback from the board is talking about the fire tax in particular.

Um, because there has been discussion at the county level about revisiting that, looking at it. It might change. Um so the it may stay the same, it may go up a little and then it may not be there going forward. Um so my question um at the meeting I was in last week uh that the county was there was okay so how how do you advise we plan and budget for for the fire tax? Um they suggested while they couldn't guarantee anything because it was a different committee and they would be talking about that just like we're talking about the budget um you know to plan for the same or maybe a little bit more. Um my my approach

dollars or cents cents which equates to dollars

that's my question. So, um, my approach would be and and this is just, you know, being more on the conservative end, if there is even a remote possibility that it's going to go away, I would say to put that at zero, but that, you know, that that's my question to the board is what do you want to plug in for that number? Because I know the city of Jacksonville is planning for zero as well. I I don't think politically they can go to zero. They just gave the u the volunteer fire department five cents. Um but I'll I'll follow up. Let's let's leave it at three cents but on the new one.

Um and then um if that's okay with you guys and I'll follow up with them. I I just don't know that politically they can make this thing go away when they just signed an agreement with the volunteer fire departments to give them 5 cents. And obviously I'm pushing for five cents. Okay. So the five-year outlook that we put together, that's what you see up on the screen right now. A lot of these items in here, these are items that have been pulled from that you heard the department heads talk about uh earlier this morning. So you can see the police department replacement vehicles. Um you can see um the plan for two going forward each year of the five years uh which was based on their requirements. Police department expansion. This is something um it's plugged in for $5,500,000. Um this is something that's been talked about in the past by the board as a priority. Um I had asked staff to put together uh numbers to plug in here. This is something that the board will need to decide whether you feel this is a priority and if it is if it's a 26 27year priority or if it's an more of an outyear priority. Um so that's something that you could consider as we go forward. Um, so we have weapon replacements. I don't think we don't have those. Uh, we don't have anything plugged in for that because within the next 5 years, we don't anticipate weapon replacements. Uh, body cam equipment we have plugged in for $56,000 2728. Uh, Roxer vehicle. Um we anticipated

these are the beach the beach vehicles that we have that um police use. Is there a question or she just asked what it was right before you said it. Okay.

So so the rocker vehicle is that uh it looks like a hybrid of a jeep and a ATV um that you see going up and down the beach. So, police use that um as well as our beach patrol have used that as well um to patrol the beach. Uh we've got that plugged in for 27. No, that was 3031. Sorry. Uh okay. Uh fire department. Um we mentioned, you know, there was a question on vehicles earlier specifically to the uh fire department. They have relatively new vehicles uh for the chief and deputy. So we you can see those plugged in for fiscal year 2930 and then 3031. So spacing them out a year apart between the chief and the deputy chief. Um engine replacement. So we don't have anything plotted for that obviously because we've been we've taken care of that. Uh the ladder truck replacement there's been discussion on that. Um we have $1.8 million just plugged in as a number. Um for 2728 um it will take a year to um or we would get two years to build from what the information we're getting and then payment would be due whenever it was is received. So we just plugged it in initially there. That was um because in preparing this, the thought process was was to get from the department heads and the things that I knew to put on a spreadsheet so that Doug has something to work from when he's doing his modeling. Um okay, South End Fire Department, obviously that's taken care of. Um

equipment replacement, there's uh $35,300 plugged into each each year. You know, examples are radios, um extrication tools, um that's been done in the past. Um she felt that that was a a good viable number to plan for for future equipment needs. Um cascade system, that's something that um we have taken care of um or about ready to we're ready to pull the trigger on that now. So that'll be taken care of. Um, next items go down to public works area, street pavings and repair. We've talked about plugging in number for future uh roadway repairs. Um, $150,000 was uh plugged in uh for to start so that you had something to look at and budget for. We do anticipate like um Chris said once we get that initial assessment in that number could get bump way up. We just don't know because they have not been addressed. Um replacement vehicles and this is for public works. Uh Chris talked about $155,000 in his budget that's been pulled over to this sheet and that's for the dump truck and the flatbed again. And then we plugged in um he requested a desire for future replacements. We have 70,000 plugged in um in um two of the outy years crosswalks. Uh it looks like a number did not get pulled over. A number does need to be plugged in for that. Um so for some reason that didn't carry over. So we'll have that plugged in uh before it goes to

Douging number that is for like the Villa Capriani style system that's in place and any type of striping for a crosswalk. Okay,

mowing equipment um we have, you know, we talked about and we joked about um snowblowing equipment earlier. um public works. Um we're in a process now of um you're going to be approving potentially you approving a piece of equipment and at the next meeting um that's going to um be able to address not only mo not only mowing but have the capability to if you do get another snow event to help clear roads. Um, so it'll be one piece of equipment. Instead of buying a piece of equipment for each type of application, it's going to be one piece of equipment that covers a myriad of issues that could come up. Um, and the board will be considering that at the next meeting. Um, I know that it typically hasn't snowed here in the past, but I can tell you it's it's snowed here every year since I've been here. So, um, I do think you need to address it uh, and be prepared. No. So, yeah. that maybe with me leaving you'll have, you know, better luck on that front. I don't know.

I wish you the best. Um public works building, we talked about that. The roof is underway or about to get underway and the next step will be um allocating money for um repairing the building which is again like the repairs that we did at the north end fire station when I came on board. Uh because that station was in the uh starting to go in the same direction that the south end station was if it wasn't addressed. So, reskinning the building, the windows, um, and just rehabbing everything. So, we have a 100,000 plugged in for that. Um, I'm sorry.

Your goal there is to avoid us having to replace a whole fire station.

Correct. And if you recall, we had a um an engineer assess that building to determine that it was uh it did not require uh an immediate tear down. It wasn't in the condition that the south end station was. um that you know we're in a position to be able to to rehab it as opposed to a total tear down and replacement which is great. Uh VMS board um this is uh something that uh was talked about. We have a new one plugged in the general fund budget, but we also plugged in an outyear for the replacement of the old one. The old one was bought secondhand years ago that predates me. So, how many years left you have in it, I don't know. I mean, staff feels that it'll get through a couple more years. Um, we will see. So, we plugged in $27,000 for an additional BMS board down the road. Park upgrades, $100,000. Um, this is for any potential projects that you're going to be looking at um, as far as um, court resurfacing, pickle ball, um, anything like that, things that come up um, that that I know that I'm aware of that public works is aware of that the board will likely want to consider in uh, future years. off-site EOCC storage. Um, there's been a lot of discussion about having the importance of having a off-site area. This is off of island for an an emergency operation center. So, if we were to have a major event, um, right now, where would staff go? Where would we operate an EOC? Right now, we have

agreements in place with the school. Um and also um the agreement that I had put in place with the county to use the library. Um also agreements we've had in the past with um area hotels with arrangements that has availability to accommodate us. But this is for a um a standalone site right now. Um we referenced earlier we've been talking to uh Frankie with Onasa. I have provided him a plan that was put together uh by Captain Paige for a Quanza hut type facility that would house uh all of our staff and a lot of our equipment. Um this $300,000 is the cost that we anticipate that would cost to construct that type of facility. Um of course that would you know be dependent on Wasa um accommodating us with the property. Um, I can say over the years we've tried um I know that I've brought different things to the board over the years on property that's become available. We looked at um you know and and the board um decided not to go forward at that time.

How much they they wanted like five times, right? Yeah. So there's there's there's been options. Unfortunately, you know, land is very expensive. Uh so uh hopefully the uh an arrangement can be worked out with on MOASA to where we would just be able to construct this facility which would be $300,000. Uh DOT bike lane project. Uh $10 million is plugged in. And that's something that the board will I know there's a lot of thought going into that.

Um on whether you want to go forward with that or not. You can leave it in here just as a placeholder for now. I was going to say you can unplug that one. That's what four times what they five five times what they told us initially. Yeah. Uh computer replacements. Uh, so you can see we've got uh sitting down with Ricky, we've got $90,000. Um, I Yeah, I think that that was another I'm not sure why that was pulled over three times. Um, and that that should have went under

28 29. So if we can make the correction on that. Okay. And PD vehicle computer replacement $30,000 and that's for 2728 and then inspections. Um this for this is for the building inspector replacement vehicle of $50,000. Um I I plugged that in not really knowing the full um condition of the vehicle

um that the inspector we've been without of an an inspector. So uh we have of course the agreement with the part-time contracted service that we're using and then also relying on county services. Um, so I'm not sure what the long-term um, prospect of that uh, department will be. Um, but I did want to make sure that it was included in case another vehicle was needed for $50,000. Looks like on the next one, you got the same problem.

Planning and then planning we've got and I don't that shouldn't be carried over three times either. No. People used to buy them every year. Is there any questions on this? But this is what I will take and give to Doug will get a copy of this along with our operating budget so that he can be prepared to come back with different models um with addressing the board in April.

Okay. Um if I could I'll make a comment then we'll pass it. Um Doug is going to have basically a living model for us. Correct. So what I would suggest is take the bike lane out. Um I can tell you right now we can't afford $10 million for a bike lane. Doesn't matter whether we that's a priority or not. Um the other thing too is I think Wayne you're going to you're going to work up the revenue neutral calculation for us. Um would you have Doug run a scenario that has the revenue neutral revenue for us versus what we're looking at just to show what that looks like in terms of you know expenses versus revenues in addition to you know you can do the full thing which we've got in now which is the new the new tax base you know at 43 cents but we might as well know what that looks like if we try to go revenue neutral

staff will have to run he's got to do it right yes Doug will review it because of his position as a financial adviser, he is not able to to run those for the board.

I'm sorry. I should have been clear about that. Wayne's got to run revenue neutral number. Okay. And then he gives that to Doug to run in the model because I think as a board we need to see what that looks like, especially because of the county is going to have to do exactly the same thing. Um, and figuring out what people are going to be doing. We don't want to be in the position that some of the other towns were in last year where they're digging into reserves to keep from changing things. Uh especially because Doug's going to give us some real big numbers on expenses going forward, the beach project and all those type of things. And he's already let Alice and I know um that we're going to be looking at debt no matter how we do this thing. He's almost he's recommending that you don't burn all your cash on these projects because if you get into something like we talked with Deborah Mack, everyone that everyone that FEMA thinks is a reimburseable, which means if you don't have the money in the front end, you can't do the project. Uh and the classic example that Alice brought up in our last meeting was we would not have been able to do uh the

TCA. Yeah. PC, we didn't have that money. Um, and you know, now we hope we'll get the money back from FEMA, but four years ago that project wasn't going to happen. And if you really want, we'll be circulating at the board meeting an analysis that Deborah did on the FEMA stuff. Um, and when you're still seeing Florence money out there, you realized how bad financially structured we were at that time, which we cannot get into that thing again. We've cleaned up a lot of stuff in the last couple years. Well, and a lot of issues that were surrounding that too was and it wasn't that staff did anything wrong in the past with um with how those projects were addressed because FEMA did

say and they do say that you can combine projects but that that just makes it makes things very messy. Um and that's you that's why you had projects that you know lingered out there for so long and they were so co-mingled and mixed up and you know staff leaving new staff coming on board. Um you know there was a lot of untangling that had to be done but it again it wasn't because of anything that you know it wasn't what staff had done. was, you know, because FEMA advised that they could. Um, and so they were just, so I look at it more simply, we didn't have the money to front a lot of these projects. And so a lot of the delays was you still had to have the money in the front end,

right? And with the USDA side agreement, we weren't allowed to do any beach projects. So we're kind of stuck on that, too. So all that's been cleaned up, and we've only got one more payment left, right, in May, before that's clean. And that will be a really nice balance sheet. So, thank you, Alice. Uh, any other questions for Al?

I've got one question that's just popped up. Uh, going through all this as far as I love the fact that we're trying to get a new bucket for doing the roads annually or whatever piece by piece as we go. But, uh, I assume Jones Enslo's responsible for all the power poles, all the electrical lines. I assume is responsible for all the water lines underneath the ground as they deteriorate over time. Um, as far as fire hydrants, is that covered underneath the town or is that on Wasa as well? Okay. All right. So, and with the general and with the general public with the general public listening and watching, I just want to make sure those are some questions that they may be asking as well

that uh we want to make sure. I mean, if we had to take those big numbers, yeah, those are huge numbers. Uh, some of these small towns that have uh 60 and 80 year old piping in the ground. Surf City C's got their own water and sewer, right? And when you look at the numbers, they're going to have to come up with good luck. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. At the last meeting that was brought up about a beach access north end, um whether it be an accessible one or or one in general for um up that way. I don't know if that's something we need to not propose. Okay. I didn't know what

you guys have. Yeah, you'd have the legal issue about property and all the other stuff, too. I think that would be but I think the other thing that's not in here is the whole idea about how much of that can we do with outside grants and all this kind of stuff. So what Doug's going to run for us is just a model assuming we're using our own cash. Right.

Right. And as far as beach accesses go, when we delve into shoreline protection fund, you know, there's a there's been a plan for the last um four years at least um that, you know, we've looked at and planned for so many per year to replace um because again, that was something that was wasn't historically addressed was repairing and replacing the beach accesses. So, um we'll plan for the shoreline protection fund. You'll see some money going into that for x amount of replacements. Connie,

I'm wondering if we could keep the bike lane in there, not for this year, but out like about three years or so, not that number either, under the assumption that we would ask when they um are going to repave New River Inlet Road if we could if we could pay for the extension at what is it, four feet on each side or something. whatever the extension is, just kind of keep it in there as a placeholder, but just a a percentage just so we don't lose it. And for future boards, I mean, none of us are going to be here forever.

My only concern with that would be uh you know, as it counters up, you know, if just say today 100,000 this year, 200,000 next year, and we're working our way up. Is that that I know before you have to be careful how you term or use the terminology of how that money's there if you were to need to move it. I mean, one one of the concerns stuck in that spot.

One of the concerns that I've had out there, and I would rely on our finance people, and actually Deborra Mack brought it up. Once you start putting stuff in buckets and you designated it for something, it's a it's a major change to start saying, it's one thing to say, I want to put stuff in for capital projects. If you say, I want to put money away for this project in this time, then we're encumbering the money for a specific project. And so and and back to your thing on the bike lane, the problem with with putting any number in there, Connie, I have no problem with if you want to do some placeholder, you know, three or four years from now. One is without them reservicing the road, I don't think financially we could do the project. Okay. And right now, I agree. Um

they have told us now it's not going to happen within the two or three years that we thought it was going to happen. Um, so what I would do as a placeholder, next time you guys go to the Jumbo meeting, just ask them. Um, I understand from a inside source that there is so limited amount of money for resurfacing now. It's like 10 miles a year or something is all the all they have in this county. Um, and also the county just put away what do they call their roads? They're not abandoned roads. They call them something else. Um, but basically the county doesn't want nothing to do with roads at all, but they've put $2 million away for these, you know, it's it's a little little side road going into and there's a name that they've got for

orphan roads. Orphan roads. And that this is the first year they've even talked about putting money aside and $2 million in this county is not going to get anything done. And so it's a you know it it's a big big number and a hot button issue for the county when they start talking about the roads. So, sorry. Go ahead, Kim. Yeah, I I I like what Connie said as far as keeping it, you know,

keeping it in there, whether it's a ghost of something at least so that um because I mean I see the the bike traffic here along Island Drive is extensive and I know that obviously the New River Inlet folks um if they had that same benefit, yeah, I'd like I'd love to be able to see if we could partner with some sort of um some sort of organization that grant money could be available, but a $10 million grant I think is obviously pie in the sky, but I I like Conniey's idea of at least moving it out just a little bit as far as keeping it on our radar. But it comes back to what number are you going to plug, right? I mean, if what was the original est I thought was original like a three.

All right. I mean, if you want to plug something at three and do that. The other thing I think assume that he's going to do and I'm going to use the uh the firetruck the million eight as an example. He's not going to when he's doing the forecast cash forecast, he's going to show that either being financed or something else, not a lump sum that year, right? Yeah. Because otherwise that year we're going to be so far underwater with a main and aid hitting. Um and so those kind of assumptions have to go in. Well, plus with Carter's helping out, I mean, if we put 600,000 to the side of we're putting that in the bank that's drawing interest or whatever.

You don't even do that. Basically, until you sign the contract, and Wayne, you correct me, it's not encumbered. Once we sign a contract, then we have to encumber the funds, meaning that we've segregated the funds. Um, and I asked the the finance guy for the county every at every meeting what they're looking for, and that number's going down, Wayne. And they're still looking at like three and a half, 4% is what they're earning on the stuff on on our cash.

Anything else? Okay. Nope, that's it. Just to be clear, you want me to put 3 million as a placeholder out in like 2930? I would put out as far as you possibly can. Okay. To the end of right now they they've already kicked it three years, right, Al? Right. And also keep in mind when we're looking at that, did they ever get back? Did KMA ever come back and tell them what did they ever get anything? Remember that was one of the issues is that we know they're not going to widen the bridges. But no, they're not going to do that kind of stuff.

I'll reach out to them to ask for a up another update. Um because the last update I got was about two meetings ago. So I'll ask him for another update so that and I'll give it I'll send it to you and so that Doug make sure he he captures it in the right year. Yeah. I mean because K did did post signs all up and down New River in Road and so the residents were aware. Yeah, you can ask them where's 100,000 bucks to

so motion to adjurnn. resolution. One one quick question, a lot of numbers in my head right now. Um, we talked about it on on several different uh reports. Is there a number to to zero in on the salaries and the adjustments and things that we talked about? Is there a number for cost of living and possible merit you want me to plug in in lie of the 10% that's in there? So when I come back next time, we are at a more accurate number. Here would be my suggestion. I don't think we can go over what social security is doing for for cost of living. That's even less.

I can answer that for you if you'd like. So social social security ad uh office has already put their number out for the year. They put it out um quite a while ago actually. Uh it's like 2.8% I believe is what they said. I was going to recommend a 3% um cola was my original request.

I I can tell you that I did I got a completely different number from them. I thought it was 23. I know that on is using 21. Um what I would suggest is I have no problem with plugging in a 3% number there and don't put anything above that in. Just see what the 3% looks like. um because the merit if the merit's going to be on top of that and we're making adjustments to pay and stuff like that, you're going to be looking at a number that's very large. Okay. So, I mean that's just that's my recommendation. So, so you're looking So, what are you looking at plugging in for merit?

That that was one kind of my question. the 3% cost of living. Um, this year there was 5% up to 5% um merit because the uh if we if I do not put in a merit adjustment um the departments that are not trying to restructure which that basically encompasses police and fire all the other departments and other staff would not get a merit increase. Do we is there not a step system currently in place or is it not an automatic or is it determined each year? No, it's determined determined each year by the board.

Yeah, I I think it's important that we recognize the the rest of the staff just as much as we do our public safety. Obviously, I speak strongly for public. Okay, we've got a math problem. Let's just let's just say that we use it is 2.8 for social security. I thought it was 23. Thank you. Here's the problem you got is if you plug in a a 5% merit on top of that increase plus you're talking about all the restructuring which is about five or $600,000 you're going to be looking at a payroll increase that's probably 12%.

And and I'm just telling you I even though I don't vote I can't vote for a 12% pay increase. So we're gonna have to figure out how that works. So what I would suggest is that you plug in the recommendations for the other departments and then maybe just do forget whether it's coal or whatever just do a flat 5% across and figure out how that works. Not distinguish between merit and and that just to see what that number looks like when it comes out because you're already Wayne from what the numbers you've shown us we're already going to see a big number because of the restructuring. Correct. Uh yeah, the the restructuring this this initial pass which will hit you in this first year to bring everybody to the base and then the re you know going forward it will phase itself in but yes it will be an adjustment to get to the base that they're speaking of. Um yes

and so all I'm saying is if we do five across and I'm just talking about a placeholder until we figure this out. You did five across that's supposed to be cola and merit just to plug something in and make those other adjustments. What have been previous year's merit up to? Last year was last year was 3% and then merit was up to five. Yeah. Cost of living was three up to five. And and we say up to because it's uh at the discretion of the department head when they do a performance review. But it's varied from year to year. Yeah,

I get that. And I think honoring or at least respecting our our our town employees is is vital. And I think uh I I recognize that we're being good stewards of the town's money and and our taxpayers money. But I I think if the taxpayers should be appreciating the the hard work that's being done and the fact that we need to retain people and if we don't give any sort of merit, I think it doesn't reflect well in the board. And I'm all for giving putting a 5% placeholder up to a 5% placeholder for personally for what? For the merit and then top on top of the cola. Absolutely. Because

just just so you understand the argument you're going to be making. Okay. I'm just being clear with everybody. You're going to stand up and you're going to tell people here that two cents property tax that they're not getting as a reduction is going to pay for those things and you're okay with that? Let's see what the numbers are. Yeah. I I think I can tell you that's where the numbers are. It's going to be worse than that. Okay. Well, I'd like to see the numbers and I don't think it's outrageous for us to be respecting the the hard work that our employees do. I think you're doing that in the restructuring, aren't you? Well, that's that's half of them. What about the other half? Yeah. When you're restructuring the salary, that's just police and fire. That doesn't affect any of the rest of percentage wise, what's that percentage of our pay? 70%.

I have not run those numbers. I'm not I'm not trying to say that everybody's not valued, but what we're talking about is a substantial change in compensation in one year. In one year at a time where the taxpayers here are getting hit with property tax bills that are off the chart in terms of value.

Okay? And so don't distinguish between, you know, you and I are just going to disagree on this. I don't think you're disres disrespecting people at this point by just saying let's figure out what 5% looks like at the board because we may have to phase in some of the restructuring and still be able to give people. I'm not all I'm trying to do is figure out what that number is right now because right now in front of us we've got something that shows we're going to get $3 million more in property taxes and we just spent 2.3 of that in those forecasts. All right. And even though I don't get to vote, that's not acceptable to me to have a $2.3 million increase in one year in a town this size and and a lot of the stuff is things we can phase in and taken care of. And that's why I've asked a question about turnover. Okay? And it's easy to say it's not my money. Um, but I can tell you it would have been a different election if this had been the surf city thing and we were raising property taxes 30%. what we went through. And the problem we've got is we've got people in this town that have fixed income. And it's not about not respecting the people that are here, the people that are hardworking and everything else. Um, but at the end of the day, if we tried to do everything at one time, all right, the math isn't going to work. Um, and to me, it's just it's just that simple. and and I have been in an environment that did not do cola and as a result of not doing cola for 5 10 years. It resulted in a very disproportionate distribution in salaries compared to the region that I was in. So I I think that if we're not keeping up with uh cola, we're not keeping up with merit. I think merit is exactly what we're saying. It's merit. We're recognizing the merit of our staff and we have to send a message as a board. I recognize the I recognize what you're saying. I I I get it, but I'd like to see the numbers as far as honoring and respecting our staff.

Okay. And and here's where this is why I love to get in these discussions because I come from the business world. Let me tell you what the business world in my company, the way we do that is if you take on additional responsibilities and if you do those things, you get a bigger bonus. Your salary doesn't go up every year. All right? And that includes coal and everything else. I've not talked about not doing a cola increase, but if somebody did a great job this year and you give them a 10% merit increase because they did a really good job this year, they're going to be earning on that inc on that performance every year after that, not just the year that they did the performance in. And that's the compounding factor. It doesn't mean that they had any more. They just did a really great year. We had a great year to to take care of all those things. And when you look at the compounding factor of doing that year after year after year, we're going to have a $10 million payroll in five years. And you know, if you're willing to support that, you know, you're one vote, I'm one vote. I'm just telling you fundamentally that I have no problem with compensating our people well and taking care of those things. All right? But it also comes back to being good stewards of people's money. And um to me, when we've done these increases in the past, and you look at the creep that we just saw in the budget that was just presented to us, okay, nobody in this board would get reelected in two years. I guarantee you it would be a complete wipeout and then you'd have another board come in here and just cut the out of everything, which is not what we want to do. And it's why I've been pushing for a five-year plan. All right? Is to is to treat our employees family and understand that we're also stewards of other people's money because we're not spending our money in here. We're spending somebody else's money in here. Okay? And performance enhancement in the real world are you don't get a raise every year based upon your performance. you get a bonus.

And again, that's the business world. That's not the government world in my experience. I think I've said what I've said. Um I've got no problem taking a look at it because the staff if you just if you run five, remember you're talking about $700,000 in this 10% restructuring plus you're going to be adding another 5% to it. Okay? Take away the staff. What becomes of the town? If we can't retain people, we can't have people here doing the work for the citizens. What becomes of this town?

What happens if we lose taxpayers? What if we have people that come in and and it's a different board and they come in and say, you know, we don't really care about that. What happens if that happens? What happens right now when they're looking at taking away property taxes from us at the state level and that money's not there. The only money we can control is that. So what if they came back and and said, "You can't do that anymore, Kip. You can't raise your property taxes anymore. So, who you laying off? Because you can't you can't keep anybody going. Those are the things that running a business you have to look at five years from now. Okay. And you keep talking about that. I don't see I don't want our pay not to be fair to the people that are here. Okay. But you're acting like it's a zero sum game. Oh my god. If we don't raise everybody's pay by $15,000 for some of these people that everybody's going to walk out the door and we're not going to have any staff. And I I don't see that. That's not the real world. We're not right now. We're in a world where everybody is laying people off. And what you're telling me is that we should be concerned that they quit if they don't get a 15% raise. And I don't I don't see that dynamic.

That's absolutely not what I said. What I am saying is working in a government environment um where you can raise taxes to get money. Go ahead. And I'm not saying we're raising taxes. I mean, if any that aside, that's a different discussion. I've said what I've said. I think that it's important to honor the the staff and I have no problem paying merit for fine work that our staff does.

I don't think anybody's saying that that's not the case. I mean, I think I think that people, you know, you've got to appreciate people's work and you've got to do what you do. But, you know, if you're if you're if you're making you if you're making Maseratis versus you're making Volkswagons, you got a whole different price structure that you're dealing with. I think what need to happen I don't I think what every listen and listen I think what needs to happen is you need to put the numbers together. We don't have to you know that that doesn't have to have a final end today. I think what you do is you look at the numbers what we we've added a lot of money and we need to look at that to determine I I think that we did we I I hear what you're saying. What you're saying is that with the police and fire there there is things that we've approved here and so you're talking about the rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest of the employees

and so I think that there's there's nothing wrong with having uh some kind of a some kind of a a maximum uh some kind of a maximum based on but based on merit I mean if you've not got somebody that's worth getting more money maybe you don't want that person how how difficult is for you to run the numbers Let us look at all the numbers. I don't I don't agree with Kip in that you just across the board go and do it because you've got to see what kind of numbers you're dealing with. I mean, how difficult is it for your staff to do three and then do five and that way we can look at the numbers. Yeah. Just I can plug it in at with the three and five as individual.

Exactly. And then that way we can look at it, regroup, reevaluate. It's not it's not a matter of what the value of employees are. or madam what what we're able to do for what what production you got what income you got to have and and what have you got to do and and we've we're we've just spent a bunch of money today and and and so I think that so so I I believe that you know I believe that there's there needs to be an answer to the question but I don't think it's just whatever that we have to take a look at it yeah I think we need the data to make it a decision yeah okay all right I have some thoughts Okay.

All right. Reading that um North Top Sale Beach showed a a 38.3% increase in our valuation. I don't know where and I don't really care of where, but I want our expenditures cut. I would like to have our I would like to have our tax rate at 38.3% less than the tax rate is right now of po of 43 cents because I would like it for people's uh taxes not to increase at all this year. Of course with that that's an average. Some people are still going to have their taxes increased some are decreased. This is just I'm not from the business world, but this is uh I run a household budget and if I know what my budget is, I have to plan accordingly. And like Larry said, sometimes you can't get a Maserati, you got to get a Volkswagen or a Kia. That's what I drive. Um but I would like to see um it doesn't h actually have to be bare bones but some any time any place

that we can cut expenditures in a wise manner limit them limit them because I don't want to I don't want to put us in any jeopardy and I certainly don't want to um the in Kip's words I don't want to disrespect our employees because we have great employees. Um, that being said though, this is the taxpayers money. This is what we are were elected for was to represent the taxpayers. The taxpayers, they are our are our that's why we're here. Okay, that's me.

Well, it's just like if you put put $100 here on the table and say this is all you're going to get now, where are you going to spend it? You know, and that that's that's where you are. Okay, we're dealing we're dealing with taxpayers money. We're not dealing with our money. We're not dealing with with with me producing something that now I'm you know I'm making more profit off of it because we're not sitting here making a profit. What So, but we're charged with with running a tight ship and making sure that things get done and and that's balanced whether you whether you're talking about salaries or everything else. We have to be we have to be uh competitive with the marketplace in order to get good people. Well, and I think just so you know when he runs the revenue neutral mark model for us then you'll see what I'm talking about in terms of what we need to look and see what we got. It's not a matter of whether we how we feel about what we ought to do. It's a matter of what we got that we can do with

right and I take umbrage at being you know this is about not treating the people with respect.

Okay. It's a two-way street. I want to be fair to our employee employees and also fair to taxpayers because I can't tell you the number of calls and emails and everything I get about they don't like this rebound. What are you guys doing with the money? Okay, why are you spending it on this? Why are you spending on that? Why are these We were hiring a I forget what it was. A $50,000 clerk and getting because that was too much money to pay a clerk. Okay. And so at the end of the day, you know, we're not a college that we can raise tuition. We've got one way that we can move money around and that's in property taxes. And it's the one that hits the people that are that are the fixed income people here that are not renting their places out. Those are the people that get the hit the hardest in property taxes. Okay? The some person that's got a 12-bedroom house that's renting it out for $15,000 a week gives a whether it's property taxes went up a thousand bucks a year.

Okay? But the stuff that I get from people constantly in meetings and everything else is what are you going to do? And I go back to something Mark said and that is what are the have to do? What are the needs to do? And it could be that we just reallocate money to be fair to our employees and other stuff. And maybe we've got to kick projects. We're not, you know, we're not going to do a bike path now. Okay. But I can tell you what, it's going to be a very hard sale to tell people we're not doing a beach project because we gave everybody a 15% raise. Um, that's not going to play to anybody that I've seen whether their homes are in jeopardy because we don't have the money to start putting sand back on the beach after next. Well, and you mentioned this before, if if social security if people in social security fixed income are getting 2.8%

and we're saying it's fair to give our people 8, nine, 10%. That's a hard argument to make in in the market today. I mean, it's, you know, you've got everybody doing layoffs and we don't want to do that. But the other problem we get into this guys, if you want to be honest with it, is at some point you're better off contracting out services that we're doing ourselves. And that's not a path that I want to go down. Okay? Um, you got people that you can contract almost everything out to somebody else. And we as a town, I don't believe we want to go there. So, all right. So now

mic microphone. Yeah, I did that on purpose for that. Oh, okay. Motion to adjurnn. Thank you. You can motion to adjurnn. Yeah. Do I hear a second? Second.