City Council - Regular Meeting

here. Councilman Skidmore here. Councilman Thomas. Councilwoman Wilbur. Mayor, you have a quorum. Okay. Thank you. We'll move into item A um regarding an amendment to Gatorhole Plan Development District PDD revising the TGI Friday site to a new Chick-fil-A site.

Yeah. So, I mean, this was uh two weeks ago council. There seemed to be uh you know, there's an amendment to the uh the Gatorh Hall PDD to turn the old TGI Fridays site into the Chick-fil-A. Everyone seemed to be excited about that, but uh council did seem to have its reservations when it came to uh traffic. So, um motion to postpone was past 6. So, we were instructed to go back to the developers and see if they could come up with a different way to um maybe satisfy those concerns. And I know Jim and Suzanne have reached out to them. So, um I believe they're here today to make a presentation, kind of give you more clarity as to what their plans are. And so, I will turn it over to Jim Wood or Thank you, council. Yeah, we um continued to had our conversations with them about the viability of their proposal and um I think probably it's best to let them explain their traffic study and and see if they can get council uh comfortable with their findings. So, I I would suggest inviting them to come and make that presentation. Is that my cube?

Okay.

Name is Richard Scott Springs, Florida. I'm the civil engineer. So, um, is it possible to pull up the uh the document that I provided? Not sure if staff can pull up the uh the exhibit that was shared. the the the way finding signage if not we can have those that are available online they can they can share if they if you don't have it ready okay um so I I was not aware that we were going to not have full access to this here but um I believe there is a Zoom call that is up here that can actually share so I would ask that Uh, we have some of our members that are online. They're going to try to share the the plan real quick. Um, we provided a a site plan to to staff to kind of show some other things that we were considering. Um, but I can kind of back up a little bit and describe a little bit more about what it is we're doing on the Chick-fil-A site, why it is we're doing it. Um, so let me go ahead and start there. So, um, as discussed at the last hearing, um, there were several concerns about in general about the the traffic situation, um, congestion at Ashley Ashley Loop, Highway 17, overall driver safety, um, and tourists were also brought up, um, and obviously peak times during that. And we agree there's no there's no there's no argument to that there is traffic concerns at this intersection. Um, so we're not we're not not trying to ignore those situations that are going on there. Um, the big difference that we're trying to show is we're trying to make the best of the current situation that we have. Um, there is an existing Chick-fil-A store

right there today that is, as you guys know, bursting at the seams. Um, we're leasing that current property and it looks like there might be able to share some screens here. Um, we're leasing that current property and we're trying to get this new property here. Um, this is directly across the street from the current the current store on Ashley Loop. So, there's obviously there's obviously some concerns that are going on on Ashley Loop that Chick-fil-A is currently on. The Chick-fil-A store that we're trying to uh move over to the relocation of this store is double the size of the current Chick-fil-A store and its limited footprint that it has at its current location. Um, we've we're we're improving the demand being localized at this much better location. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Um, operationally, we're doubling the on-site stacking, and that's just counting the drive-through lane itself, right? We all know drive-through does tail out every once in a while. I think staff had comments on the last uh the last hearing where it was mentioned that a certain driveway had been closed. And again, that's Chick-fil-A coming to improve the situation that it's having on its current site. Um, and what we're back to now is that there's not there's not a whole lot more that we can do on that existing site to make anything better. Um, so what we're coming what we came to the conclusion was is that we needed to relocate this site. So again, I'm not Chick-fil-A, but I'm trying to summarize the the full discussion and what's going on here. And I do have with me the operator store and Chick-fil-A and our traffic engineer as well that can also speak. So, if you want to ask questions, we can certainly bring all of them up here. Um, but again, we wanted to make sure that we're that wasn't being just left at the wayside. That that improvement to move to this other site to lease that new property is a it's a big investment and so we're trying to move over to that site and make it better for the ability for Chick-fil-A to control their cars on their site, right? Um, again, the safety

concerns. So, we talked about we we definitely did a full traffic impact analysis for the store when we moved it over. Um, Andrew, who's with me here, did the led that analysis and as part of that analysis, it came to the conclusion that if we were to move to this side of the store, we would need to add a left turn lane. That was not a comment that came from from staff. That's not a comment that came from the city. We we came to provide we came with the plan to put in this left turnway. And so what we've actually shown on the plan here, and you can kind of see it on the screen, um that that driveway that's on the very the bottom of the plan there, that driveway is currently only two lanes. We're proposing to add a full dedicated left turn lane. So that if again, as as mentioned, there is a backup on Ashley Loop. There are people to sit in that left turn lane and there's 200 feet of of stack right there on that left turn lane. The benefit of that left turning is not just so that we can allow left turns. It's also that so that we can have a separate lane for the straight to go straight across Ashley Loop to where Chick-fil-A is currently on the driveway as well as take rights. So, that's one of the major improvements that we're trying to do. Um, and we had to get that approved through the through the landlord. Um, so I'm trying to get kind of just bring it back to what we're trying to do here. And again, I understand that the the concern was mainly about frustration from drivers making those left turns. If what happens if I can't make a left turn because there's so many cars I have to wait, you know, let's say it's a minute or two or three while the light cycles to be able to make that left turn. Again, that's what that left turn dedicated does. It solves that solution. It allows them to sit there and if someone is frustrated, they're allowed to merge out of that out of that lane and go into the straight or the right turns and go around. Um there's not just so like right now currently Chick-fil-A is able to come out the the south side of their site. Um

and if you could Stuart if you could zoom in on the aerial in the bottom left. I'm kind of getting to what our next possible option to to add in here. Um but you can see if you're looking at this aerial here, you can see the existing Chick-fil-A site in red. It's kind of circled existing Chick-fil-A. It's a little fortunately it's not coming out super great here, but um you can see all the stop signs. So, right now it's coming out of the bottom of that site and it's going either towards um Ashley Loop or it's going towards 8th Avenue, which I believe was discussed at the last hearing. Those are the two ways you can get out. Right now, those those same ways are still going to exist with this Chick-fil-A moving to the new location. They're still going to be able to customers are going to be able to go straight. Again, there's going to be a dedicated left, but there is going to be a a dedicated straight and right turn. So, people can still go, customers can still go uh across Ashley Loop and exit on 8th Avenue, as well as what's being illustrated here. Um, and so he's he's zooming in right there. As well, this new site opens up a totally new avenue for customers to exit the store. And it was not discussed in the last hearing, but this green, if you could see this green line, is everyone able to see that? That green line allows people to make a right turn onto Ashley Loop and actually get to Highway 17 with only taking right turns. So there's two different ways that we can go there. Um so there's in front of the uh the existing stores or along Ashley Loop, there's ability to make that right turn and get back out to Highway 17. Um so what we've proposed, again, that wasn't something that was discussed. We wanted to make sure that was clear that there is another way out of this this development. Um and so what we shared with staff was um again we don't own this property. It is being leased but we we understand that there needs to be something done to improve Ashley Loop. Um and so if you could Stuart could you just go over to the image. So essentially what we're trying to also include is this wayfinding

signage that allows again we talked about tourists not always being able to find their way. They're going to come in the same way. We have signage at two different locations that will both get them to a way that gets them back to Highway 17 and doesn't require them to turn left onto Ashley Loop. Um, and again, that's only possible because we're adding this left turn lane, but that is that is what we kind of offered as as a um we'll call it an olive branch, right? As something that we can control, something that's on our property, that's our landlord. Um, and so that's what we're we're here to discuss today. So, sorry if I was longwinded there, but I wanted to go through all that.

Okay. Well, thank you. You did address some of the issues. I'm sure there some that weren't. We like to hear something a little bit, but I would personally, but you are the engineers. I get it. But we certainly wouldn't be doing our due diligence if we didn't question you with our concerns. Absolutely. So, we're just having a workshop here today. We're not taking a vote. We're just discussing this and then we'll this will come back up on the agenda later on. The signage that you're talking about, is that going to direct them to Highway 17? A lot of folks may want to get just get to the beach. You know, they picked their Chick-fil-A up and are you going to have a sign that says beach this way, 17 that way, or

Well, we're specifically what we were focusing on was the intersection on Ashley Loop and Highway 17 because that was what was the main concern of the last hearing. So, no, not we're not talking about a million different signs, but specifically Highway 17. Yes. But I do got a few things that I' I'm listening, but my main concerns at the meeting really doesn't seem like they've been addressed. And I do want to say since I see the news back there that I am not against Chick-fil-A. I had multiple calls after that meeting that I was against Chick-fil-A. I am not against Chick-fil-A. I love Chick-fil-A. But none of us against

So, I just did want to say that. But but that being said, the signage telling you to take a right to get back to 17, that concerns me just as much as going left because I travel these roads daily. So, if you direct me right to get back to 17, that gives me two options to get back to 17. That gives me the option that goes by Walmart, comes back out at Second Avenue. And if anybody in this room is familiar with the Second Avenue stoplight because of Lowe's, that is backed up tremendously every time I go to it. The other concern is you come back to 8th Avenue and people that travel 8th Avenue also know that that intersection backs up a lot because people are sitting there trying to go left to get back onto 17. And we're not even discussing what the DOT wants to do with the safety movements. So if you direct them back out to 17, they're going to have to then go right and try to find their way back around

just like they're doing. It just doesn't really to me this doesn't

make me feel any better about the way we're trying to fix and I'm just going to throw this out there and I know this is might not be feasible but to me best case scenario for this whole thing and I get that this also falls on the complex as well because they do have a traffic issue inside that complex but would be a roundabout back here at the Home Depot, the Walmart and this shopping center the Mexican restaurant at. So that way when you push people back out, right, they go through a roundabout, which would also help the congestion at Walmart and Home Depot and everywhere else to get them back to that stoplight. I know that's probably not what y'all want to hear, but that is probably in reality the best solution to the problem we have here. So I'm just kind of, you know, this is a workshop, so we're just kind of throwing out ideas. So I'm just throwing that idea out.

Yeah. I mean I we again we have our traffic engineer who's here who can probably speak into it better if that is the best solution. I don't know. It's not something I mean it's something we obviously

that's my idea. But also the traffic guys are here. Y'all might want to look at 8th Avenue and Second Avenue because when you start pushing because y'all are going to design a Chick-fil-A to handle what the old Chick-fil-A cannot handle, which is going to push that many that many more people out back onto Ashley Loop Road quicker than it does at the Chick-fil-A that's there now. And then something's going to go in the place of that Chick-fil-A. So that traffic's, you know, still going to be there as well. So that's my two cents on this. Can I can I pull him up just I think it might be helpful for him to explain. I mean my my my layman's version is he did include two check-ins basically in his analysis.

Yeah, sure. And glad to answer any of the any questions y'all have on the the TIA itself. Um the the way I I look at this is these are a left turn movement that's happening today. Um that certainly there would be some volume added to that when Chick-fil-A gets relocated. Um the analysis shows that we're holding that additional traffic within our site and not causing any internal problems. That's the we're putting in the 200 foot left turn lane to accommodate anything extra there. Um I would hesitate prohibiting lefts um to vehicles, you know, traffic is going to follow the the path of least resistance just like just like water flows, right? Um, Second Avenue might get busy during different parts of the day. Um, this left turn lane will get busy, Ashley Loop will get busy during different parts of the day. Other parts of the day will probably be fine. Um, I think the the left turn lane and providing some wayfinding signs for people unfamiliar with the area. Um, I I think that provides everyone that's trying to use the area, you've got options. you can sit and wait to turn left like people are doing right now today. There's probably other people that are already trying Second Avenue if they don't feel comfortable turning left. Um so that that's kind of my take on it. Um the roundabout situation, you know, at a minimum a single lane roundabout would need 130 foot diameter to to go there. So, another thing that um to keep in mind there is as well is, you know, what's feasible and and what that would actually look like on the ground. So,

did anyone talk to the property owner to see if they would consider a roundabout? Has that been discussed with them at all? I will uh Do you want to pull that one up?

Good question. I'm going to pull up uh this is Adam. He's uh with Chick-fil-A corporate. Good afternoon. Thank you for your time, council members. Um, Adam Nelson, 4201 Beach Creek Court, Holly Springs, North Carolina. Uh, thank you again for the time this afternoon. Uh, regarding the question, uh, we have engaged the property owner after the council meeting. Uh, we had hoped that, uh, they would potentially be able to attend this meeting and if not, uh, maybe if subsequent if needed, uh, because obviously some of these discussions get into, uh, their owned property as opposed to ours. um we lease from them. Currently the plan would be to lease from them again with the new property. Uh but as far as improvements on their property are concerned u certainly would need to be uh something that they would uh agree to and then some of the details specific to that as far as um who's going to fund so forth would include them. As I understand it, Ashley Loop is a private road. Um, and so I think from that standpoint, um, the the city wouldn't necessarily have involvement approval of course, but not necessarily as far as u some of the design and and um, uh, best uses or uh, options are concerned um, uh, for that matter. So, thank you for the question. Happy to answer uh, anything else that there may be. So my question was has it been discussed with the landlord?

Uh yes. So we have reached out and I do not know yet uh the nature of those conversations. We have a real estate department um uh one of my counterparts by the name of Jenna has reached out to engage them and share um what came from the city council meeting two weeks ago. Um, and so we're waiting to uh download um Jen and I as far as uh what's been discussed at this point and um their potential interest in uh helping us solve the concerns that were presented. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

I do have one question in regards to the new Chick-fil-A. Is it the same size or is it larger, smaller? Yes, sir. It is going to be larger in all regards. both square footage, uh, number of parking stalls. The, uh, desire here, of course, is with this opportunity to be able to get more of our, um, both team members that drive in as well as customers to be able to park, um, almost solely on the leased property, which is not uh, necessarily the case uh, at all times right now. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I have a question for for the uh, the traffic engineer.

Yes, sir. on in just in in in round numbers um looking at if you were to design an intersection similar to the one now that at Ashley Loop that we're talking about where the potentially the roundup about could go

what I mean what are you looking at as far as in a in a square area what do you I mean how many feet what an intersection like that typically take up if you're designing one today I I don't and I'm assuming this one's is relatively current. I'm just trying to to if if you're looking at 130 ft for a roundabout, you know, and and if you're saying that this section, this intersection here currently would be approximately 100 by 100 if you were design one. I'm not asking you to go measure this one, but I'm just make sure we're even somewhere close to having a conversation about something that makes sense. Um, so I'm not sure if you're asking of the the square footage of a of a traditional intersection versus

Yeah, the traditional intersection that we have, you know, basically you've got, you know, one main thoroughare, you know, as Ash Loop is and then another your two your two cross streets on that. Yeah. As far as the size of a traditional intersection, I I don't know anything off the top of my head, but I will say, you know, if you center a 130 foot diameter roundabout on that intersection, you would be cutting into the curb on every single corner the lights and utility and drainage on those corners. I was just trying to get an idea whether that if that's 10 feet, 20 feet, 50 feet that you know because a certain point it doesn't it

you know it it's not practical and and I understand that that you know parking is is always valuable to all the the merchants even though that not every day it's used but they're they tend to at least the large box tend to to design things for for their their handful of peak days, Right. Yeah. I would say just roughly you'd you'd probably be cutting into each corner several feet to to get that to to fit. And just that's just the diameter of the circle, not not counting, you know, your tapers and and trying to curve the traffic into to that area as well. Yeah. And then there also the required green space and other

y areas. All right. Thank you. from a as a traffic person, would a roundabout help uh facilitate this traffic in this location? Um, I think a single lane roundabout I think would would function um in this situation based on the volumes. But would it make it better or worse or

um you're going to you're going to reduce some conflict points going to a roundabout. Um level service delays would probably be a little bit better than than the stop control situation there. Yeah. Okay. Um, how many drive-through lanes are you going to have at this store? And I guess you're going to tear down the existing building and um, so there will be two drive-through lanes. Currently, there's only one on the existing site. And yes, we will be closing down the existing store. Yes. And how many parking places would you would you have in your design now

on the existing store versus No, no. what you're planning to do. What we're planning to do is about 100 spaces and five of those well 105 spaces, five of those are handicapped spaces. And what do you have now? Right now, we've only got 44 spaces. So, you can see the dilemma. Do we have any concerns from the other businesses around there? Have they expressed any concern about the traffic that might impact them? I mean, they haven't reached out to me. I don't know if they're planning path is no. So,

well, I mean, you know, currently you have a Chick-fil-A and it's got pretty much three exits to get out of it and so we're not going to we're not changing the amount of traffic that's coming on that road. Our biggest concern is that left turn is getting them on 17. Currently, there's not that many people that use that left turn coming from the opposite side from where you will be in the new building. So, that is the biggest concern is figuring out that left turn. And if we do no left turn, then they're all going right and then we've got to get them on Second Avenue or 8th Avenue. So that, you know, clogs up those intersections as well. I mean, realistically, a roundabout sounds the best option to control this traffic and make it flow and help the shopping center. And that's what I would push to the landlord is they already have a terrible traffic jam at that Windy Hill at that I'm sorry, Walmart intersection anyway. So, if they would agree to do this, it helps everybody. It has helps everybody in that shopping center.

Can we go back to the first part of that? I think you originally were talking about the operations of the store. I do have the store operator. I think he wants to Is it okay if he comes up? Yeah. You know, I I go to Chick-fil-A a lot and I know how much traffic's over there and I know you need a new location. Uh, you know, what I'm saying to our council is, you know, we're going to have the same amount of traffic. It's just coming a different direction than it is now.

Yeah. Uh Jeff Cash, North Myrtle Beach. I'm the owner operator there at this location. Um first, let me just say thank you to you guys for tableabling this and putting it, you know, into a workshop and not just saying no right away. That means a lot to me, means a lot to my family. Um 2015 we moved here. Probably the best decision we ever made was to come to this city. Um you guys have built an incredible city and so we're thriving as a result of it. Uh so obviously we've got a great problem that we're trying to deal with. Um and I'm truly grateful. Um, I think we're the best city on the entire Carolina coast. Um, and I tell my fellow operators up down the Grand Strand that as much as I can.

Uh, you know, I I would say if you've if you've been to my restaurant, we've certainly hit capacity. Uh, we we've done just about everything we can uh to get as many people on our lot as possible. My my concern right now is how we're affecting our neighbors right now. Um, you know, I I think it probably could be frustrating to be some of these other businesses around us, especially during the summer when they're parking on their lots and coming to our restaurant. That's not the kind of neighbor I want to be. And so, this solves a huge problem by allowing our guests to come and and only be on our lot exclusively. Um, I think that is an important good neighbor move uh to to make. Second, if you guys have been been to our restaurant, I think we've become professionals at chasing the bottleneck. um and we chase it and we solve it and we create more capacity and then we go find the next bottleneck. That's the very nature of something like this. Um and so, you know, for me, I'm I'm very committed to having traffic, you know, on my dime out there with my my resources to push people the direction they need to go uh based on what's happening. I mean, we're the second most seasonal restaurant in the whole chain. Um but the beauty of where we are now is you guys have built a a city that allows us to thrive during the offseason, too. Um, and so I don't I don't want to only look at this seasonal moment. That's going to be a challenge. I think there's challenges like that all over the city. Um, I think you want a business to thrive there. Um, it it's by far one of the best lots on the entire development. And so I I I I think by putting Chick-fil-A there, you're saying you want a thriving business to go to probably the best, you know, site. And and we need a new site. Um, and then my commitment just as the local owner is to say, "I'm there on the ground and we're going to put people in place to to push the traffic where it needs to go." I promise you, the customers that are pulling out of my lot, I want them to be so happy. Um, I don't want them to be stuck uh at a stop sign making some left turn that maybe feels dangerous or frustrating. Um, we're going to push people in the direction that they need

to go to keep them safe and to keep them happy. Um, and so I would just ask that, you know, as as we do work maybe with the landlord to continue to chase the bottleneck downstream, I think Chick-fil-A's very committed. Hopefully you guys would, you know, believe we're the right partner to have there to have those conversations with the development as time goes on. Um but you know ultimately right now we we've kind of reached a cap where we are and and I think that can be a little frustrating as a business owner when you know we've got you know six to eight people sometimes out with iPads taking orders but we can kind of only do what we can do when the lot is as small as it is. So that that's my take. I mean just just would be as the local owner um I'm there on site you know and I think innovation is is one of our other competitive advantages. We're going to get out there and just try to solve the problem every single day. Um, so but thank you for doing this and tableabling this so that we can actually have

What is your timeline with if if everything gets approved? What what what are we looking at as far as open doors? Oh, we still got quite a bit to go through as far as permitting through through the city as well as some other agencies. Um, I mean, we're in step two of the process of a, you know, 50week process. Um, obviously that we're taking the time it takes to get this done right, but um, we probably still got another year to go before we're able to to work on this project. Um, and so, you know, that's that's roughly what we're looking at. And that's just to get permits, right?

Well, you do an incredible job at the Chick-fil-A now getting that traffic in and out of there. I love going through there and and it's it's I just it's amazing how um you just get people in and out and and uh I'm sure you'll do a great job here. I know we have some concerns and one of those is mainly for you too. Yeah. Is if you have, you know, unhappy customers, and I hear you say you're going to make sure you're not, and I totally believe that based on what I've seen you do here. Um but if you did, you know, that could hurt your business. Yeah. Yeah. And I I So, how do you feel about that when you look at that design and you hear our thoughts? I share in the concern for sure. Um and and I think,

you know, you kind of do the best with what you got. That's kind of like the name of the game sometimes. And and I think we know for sure we have to solve the problem we have right now. I got you.

Um and my concern is I mean, you guys know there's just not a lot of spots that you can go get in North Myrtle Beach, um that make sense for your customers without having some crazy huge impact. Um, and so I I think this is I had to get comfortable with it and and I think once I I did I'm you know I'm I'm all on board now and and I feel like we can make this work. Um but you know at the end of the day I think this is going to be a longstanding conversation with the development over time. Um my fear is that it'll get hung up right now and you know I certainly don't want to predict all the problems and that's what stops us. I think it's very fair what you guys are doing as a council to just ask the hard questions and and force us to have those conversations, but um I feel comfortable with it, I guess, is what I'm saying. Okay.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you guys. Any other comments by council? I I I think we we're we appreciate you all working with us and your in the whole the whole team. Um you and and we we share one thing with you is you know we don't want people to say hey I I went to Chick-fil-A the food was great but we got wrecked. So that and that's our concern. I mean that that's really the at the end of the day and um you know Yeah.

I agree. And and I think the the other concern too is is our drive off rate right now is really high. And so, um, just from a revenue perspective, there's there's a lot that that's getting missed. Um, because because it's so small, the line does form on Ashley Loop, which I think is a huge problem that we have to consider that right now we're sometimes we're backed up all the way to the stoplight in the summer. Um, it would be awesome if I could get all of those on my parking lot and let that be kind of my my issue to solve. Um, so yeah, I think you have, you know, some safety concerns at your current site. Yeah.

Because of staff and no parking and kids having to get out of the cars and there's just nowhere to go because the traffic's going all the way around building. So, I do think there are cons some concerns at your current location that would be resolved moving to this new location.

Yeah. And if I could just speak to that, too. You know, we installed a couple speed bumps, you know, currently at our site. Um, mostly because a lot of our walking traffic has to walk through our drive-thru right now, which to me is I mean that has to be solved, but we can't we just can't solve it where we are. And so the nature of this new building is that that's not going to be an issue. We we can wrap the drive-thru around, you know, the outside of the parking lot, which is obviously the new design of Chick-fil-A with safety of the customers in mind. Um, and so again, I I just think this this solves more problems than it creates, and I think we're willing to help along the way um solve solve the problems. But I know you love Chick-fil-A, and I appreciate you saying that. You know, I love the council, man. So,

I eat there all the time. I I do. So, I understand I understand your point of view where y'all are busting at the seams. Just as a council member, I I I'm just concerned with the the traffic. I understand. Absolutely. But of course, I want y'all to do good and do well. And I I see exactly why you want to move over there. Yeah. Um and another thing I'm just thinking about while we're sitting here is the other fortunate side, even though you are busting the seams, most of your exit points take rights coming out of your place now. Um and it's like we've all said, it's that lefthand turn we're concerned about. Sure. I understand. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you guys. Thank you.

One more thing. Uh, Council Member McCumby just wanted to close the loop on the question you asked. I was able to text my counterpart in real estate. She's reached out to uh, the landlord for a second time yesterday. She thinks that he may be out of the office since her first uh, inquiry with him. So, we will continue and make sure that we align with them to discuss this. Keep us updated, too. We certainly will. Okay. Thank you all.

And I do have one a question again to the traffic study gentlemen. because I'm a Chick-fil-A fillet fan and I'd like to go there more often, but you can't get into places so busy. So, it would be a good move. However, I'm still uncomfortable. We're talking about increasing the size of the building. We're going from 100 44 spaces to 100 spaces and we're going to stack them all up in there. We can get them in there. How can we get them out? Is that going to be can you how much can you tell me as a traffic person are we going to be better off or we going to be worse off?

It's it's a fair question. When we do a traffic impact analysis, we're looking at, you know, what's the expected traffic operations out there in the future, you know, without any changes. What's that going to operate like? Um for this site, there's going to be people turning left there, whether Chick-fil-A is there or not. Um, when we're doing the impact analysis, that's what we're looking at. We're looking at the impacts. So, what does that look like in the future if Chick-fil-A does move over there? What what are those impacts? What's the change? What's the difference uh with Chick-fil-A? And you haven't completed that yet, have you?

That's that's what the TIA is, is looking at the future if Chick-fil-A doesn't move and the future if Chick-fil-A does move. comparing those two scenarios from a traffic analysis perspective, looking at the delays, looking at the cues, uh taking all that into consideration and and determining, you know, what is the impact that Chick-fil-A is causing versus what's something that's already there today. Um, you know, we've we've looked at the analysis. Um, I don't see anything internal to the site of the the stop sign turning left where we're causing any issue for people backing up into the development and and causing any issue there. We're we're kind of taking care of that with the left turn lane. Um, I don't know what what to tell y'all. I know the big concern is the left turn lane that's that's there today. Um, to to me it's it's it's a it's a little bit of a gray area of is this something that is is there today and we're going to add some volume to it. Um, but we're adding in a left turn lane to try to take care of that or is it something that's um

Could you pull that up again? The left turn lane that you're proposing. There you go. Yeah. So the it's going to be would that would now be the middle lane. Correct. Yeah. Right now it's just one lane coming in and one lane coming out. So that would add in a a separate dedicated left turn lane exiting the the site. Okay. Does that include a change to the curbs? or is it working within the existing curb to curb change anything on on the site there?

Yes, we you can see those those dotted lines there. Those are that's new pavement that we're doing to widen that driveway to Okay. So then so essentially the curve from the uh is moving towards 17. Yeah. Moving towards 17. Okay. Correct. So, you're expand actually expanding the driveway width there. Correct. Okay. In order to add that second. Yes. I'm I'm sorry, Hank. I didn't mean to hijack your question, but that was I did have a question. I think I do believe I think staff here is is here and since we're talking about the traffic impact analysis, can we can we discuss like we did get an approved traffic impact analysis. So, I just want to make sure that like maybe they could speak into that

and that analysis because I don't know maybe I just didn't hear it. The analysis pointed out that with these changes and modifications, we're going to be no worse off or better off. The there is we're not creating an impact. We are moving the impact to a new location. That's a pretty quick summary. Well, so if you want to get really really technical,

um the delay exiting the site, so on that that driveway, the delay there is a level service F today. It's going to be slightly higher level service F in the future with or without the Chick-fil-A. Um so to say is it getting better or worse? I mean it's it kind of is what it is. Um we're not making that queue, you know, any worse within the site or anything like that. So in the new site, correct? I struggle with that. I do too

because you've got a TGI Fridays that used to be there. That's a sit and dine. somebody can come and stay for an hour. So, you're not loading them in and out. So, you're going to have a huge difference in the impact at that location than somebody that's coming there to sit down and order a meal. Would you not say so?

We're looking at we're looking at what is the delay at that intersection. It doesn't really there will be more delay there because there'll be more vehicles exiting, right? Um but to get that that nuanced in it with of you know in in in 20 years of experience doing these TAS if it's already a level service F we do what we can to to not make it worse than it is. But when you're already at capacity basically that's a level service F. Anything you add is going to make it make it we could add one car and it's worse. Does that make sense? like tech if you want to be technical. It's already a bad intersection no matter which way you look.

Yeah. If you want to be technical with it, we could add one vehicle and we've made the intersection worse. So, let me ask you this. This is this is a big big change. What if they had a exit back behind? I don't know how much land is there, whether the landlord would be willing to do it, but put an exit lane through the back of the uh coming back out onto back over there on the road at um at Walmart. That's a that's a big change, but there some some I just can't imagine. And I love Chick-f Play to death, but I know as successful as it is and this new location and we can handle 30% more people, that's a lot of cars and they're trying to get out of this little choke point. It's bad enough as it is over there. If they had a could diffuse it and take it back behind the existing stores coming back out onto the Walmart road, that would give you that would that would that would do a lot. that would give you an opportunity and that's a busy road already but still it would be it would diffuse some of that traffic.

So they pulled up the aerial here. Could you could you explain you're saying uh going like what extending the the driveway left? No, when you go back to the new to the proposed site coming back behind the existing buildings there. Um or take your marker to the new site. Okay. Go back in this back parking lot. Uh and then coming back behind the existing buildings that are adjacent to you going in the in the back of them as a as another exit to get the traffic out of there. You know, you got your your white see your white rooftop.

I think I think I understand what you're saying. So you're basically saying we would discharge the cars at the rear of the the as one of the discharge points. an extra uh uh they give you two discharge points right now. They got the main road coming in there and then you could go through the parking lot and shoot over there which is got to drive all that traffic in front of those people. However, there may be enough room to put it in the back. Um yeah, there should already be an existing road back there for trucks and, you know, deliveries and Yeah, they got a Yeah, they got some space back there. you know, whether you could put a lane in there, a discharge lane in there and add it to those trucks have to come back there and unload and do all that kind of stuff.

I mean, we do have the there's a whole driveway back there right now for the team members and their parking back there. So, there's already an access point that we're providing at the rear of that site. Um, I don't think we're prohibiting them from making what that red line right there that's been put on the screen. We're not prohibiting that with the current plan either. There is two driveway exits if you want to go back to the the public plan. So technically they don't have to exit. Um so they don't have to exit south. There's also a driveway. I don't know if you can see that. Um they could turn right there, but they Yeah, they can go exactly like he's marking up right there as well. They can mark up or they could they could go right before that stop sign, too. There's a whole driveway there where you can see those parking spaces just north of that. So they're able to go that way if they want. Like if if there let's say there's two cars sitting at that stop sign right there. They can they can go towards the um the Buffalo Wild Wings with this plan. There's another driveway north of that.

But that's in front of Buffalo Wild Wings and but they would be able to turn right or left. So they could go in front or they can go behind either way. I don't know that anybody wants to go back there. I mean that's the back of the store but um that's not prohibited with the plan that we're doing here. Well, I'm thinking that that would give them another option because otherwise I've got to come in front of all these stores. There's a lot of traffic versus I'm trying to figure out a way. I don't know. I just trying to get comfortable with it that we're not creating a bigger problem than we've got at the existing site.

Yeah. And and I think I've driven that exactly what you're talking about with that thought in mind. Is that something we could do? We'd probably have to talk to the landlord. They'd have to clean it up back there a little bit. There's dumpsters and stuff and cars parked. I mean, that's that's normally access for the back of their building. Um so we'd have to have to work that with them. And ultimately the goal would be when it when it's super seasonal, we we take them down that green line in front of the actual strip center so that they can get a little further upstream and then make the left turn. I think one of y'all mentioned that in the last meeting. How can we just get them a little further upstream so it's safer? I mean, at the end of the day, it's if it's in the middle of July, everybody knows it's just going to be a little wild uh some days, but it would be just be a matter of pushing them a little further up to to make it safer. Um but and I would also say from an impact study where we currently are versus I mean most of our traffic is still coming over to Ashley Loop where we are now crossing two lanes of traffic who are trying to make right turns at the main stoplight on 17 to make a left turn. I mean it's right now it's not safe just getting off of Ashley Loop. Um and so there there's still a tremendous amount of traffic coming from our restaurant to that same exact spot. from an impact moving our restaurant to a new spot.

It's I think that's where um it might be a little bit of a wash in terms of of people that are pulling out there. Um so I would just keep that in mind. the um if you were to come back I think that back road should be part of the plan to help diffuse that traffic. But now you got a whole council up here. That's just my two cents worth talking about behind the strip center. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean something they can discuss. I I guess just to clarify, Richard, you were saying that's already part of the plan, correct? There's there is a connection there. We're not prohibiting. I mean, I guess I don't know how we make it more accessible um without sacrificing like the the if we go back to the main plan, the mo most important part of this entire plan is to isolate that drive-thru from the parking. So, the only way that we could isolate the drive-thru further would be to or I guess to get the driveway to come south would be to combine it back up with more parking, which kind of negates the purpose of I think what you're looking for, but they can access that driveway by two different ways with this plan. Okay.

So, I don't know if uh if you if you can uh see my cursor here. This cursor is basically like they would be able to come out here, make a right or a left onto this driveway that connects to Ashley Loop. they could also take a full U-turn here and go down that that driveway. So, it's a it's a a cleaner I mean a quick quick U-turn around some landscape islands as well. So, it's I would say that we're we're kind of providing for exactly what you're looking for. And I think that's where I would put a team member there at that entrance and make them turn left would ultimately be the way we'd solve it day in and day out without putting something that everyone has to deal with all year long when they don't even need to do that. But in those moments when they need it, we're there to do that. Um,

I mean, there was considerations. I guess just pull cards on the table here. We considered closing this driveway completely. I don't think that's a solution that's going to happen all year round and could be a good decision. Um, maybe during the peak times it might be like he's talking about when we can when we're at that the capacity you could have them turn right and make that left turn. Then you have more places to stack those left turn lanes and those right turn lane uh car stacks. Uh, but it doesn't it doesn't know I don't think that we considered at the end of the day. Does that really solve for what he's going to be dealing with every single day? Probably not.

I see now it's not going to be help. I mean, you can snake your way around back there, but if you're in the if you're doing the drive-thru thing, it's not going to help you out that much unless you go back around and round your elbow. I don't see a fix for that. Thanks. Thank you, chairman. Thank you. Thank you. All right.

Are there any other comments by council? Any more discussion? We'll open up for public and take a few people from the public. Does anybody from the public want to speak on this issue? Have some comments they'd like to make? Please come down to microphone, give your name and address. We have a threem minute time limit. three or four or 10 feet uh around those curb lines and get a a traffic circle there. I think personally I think that's going to solve all your problems and I suggest you consider that. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? Okay, we will go into item B, amendments to chapter 22, vehicles for hire of the code of ordinances of North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, regarding towing from private property.

You want to Yeah. So, at the last council meeting, um we were going to have uh up for consideration on the agenda was to um change the fee structure for our non-consentual towing to be consistent with the same rates that uh we use for um consensual towing. Now, this was something that was driven by interest from numerous council members. So that's what the catalyst was for getting it on the agenda. Um when it was simply just the idea of changing the rates, it seemed simple enough. Didn't really have to go into too much detail about it. But as we got it out there, then we started talking about um you know, other aspects of that whole process, like the reasonable amount of time for our officers to be on scene uh when a uh vehicle is towed from private property. Uh and then we got into the discussion about uh you know the no tow fee which is the fee that we charge if you know the owner of the vehicle comes back to the vehicle prior to uh the paperwork all being filled out and that way uh they can just un unhitch it and they pay a very very small fee and then they can just drive away. Um and then we got into um you know the idea that it's currently a problem because uh the towing companies that or the towing company that that uh engages in this type of towing uh didn't have the ability to offer uh digital payment or credit card payment on site. So people who did come back out to their vehicle uh in a position to just take it and drive away um you know if they didn't have cash they were um not in a position where they could they could even take advantage of the no tow fee. Don't know how um accurate that is there just stories that we've heard but if there is the idea that this day and age that the towing company says they can't um take credit cards on site I think that's something that we probably want to

explore. But given all of those things, the discussion and uh you know the changes weren't just as simple as changing the the fee structure. So uh there's a lot to it and we felt that that made sense um to postpone it. That's why there's a staff recommendation to postpone it to a workshop so you can all um discuss it and let the council members who are pushing for this articulate or justify why uh why it's needed. So that's that's the need for this this discussion.

I don't I'm not comfortable with telling a company do they have to take credit cards. That's that's their private business. I don't think I should demand that. Um uh the least we have to do with private business I think the best we are and this is what we're doing. Why are we going to a private toe as a police force? Why is that needed? So, and Ryan, I'd like before we dig into this. Yeah. Um, I'd like to kind of for the people in the audience that aren't familiar with what we're talking about to kind of give them a back history.

So, year year and a half ago, I guess maybe we uh Councilman Thomas asked if with other items too if we could visit some different things and towing was one of them. And I was happy as I do a lot to help other council members as they want help taking care of things or discussing things. And uh so it was my assumption is that a tow company had reached out to Councilman Thomas asking him to revisit the tow fees because we haven't had tow increases in many years. And anybody who's in small business understands the impact that our small businesses have had, especially through COVID with the cost of everything going up from the cost of our equipment to our insuranceances, so forth and so on. So when we started digging into this, we realized that the state had set out their own fee sheet and a lot of municipalities follow that. So we thought that was a great idea. just lean on the state, let them they did the research on what they consider fair to standard toe rates and just lean on that and and then let that be what it is. Well, um at the last minute, a former council member decided to pull out the non-consentual toe. My fault for not questioning it, to be honest with you, I'm not a tow person. It's not my business. I didn't even know what a non-consentual toe was. So, I didn't say anything and a few years later or a year or so later, a tow company reached out to me and uh asked if I had minded looking into it, which of course he's a a business person in our community. So, I was fine with that. And I didn't start there. I I didn't stop and just go right into it. I wanted to talk to some of our other tow businesses in and and our larger tow businesses in the city. So, I I reached out to one who said that they don't get involved in non-conensual tow and they're getting out of the toe business pretty much in general, so they didn't really care, but they did say that the fee was too low for the time it

took to do the process. I reached out to another gentleman who also does a lot of toes. And he he he went into it a little more. Said the same thing, but also said that it takes twice as long to do the toe. And when he comes to a city tow, he has the keys. A lot of times the car is damaged, so there's less liability in in damaging the car when he does this to. So hearing that, it really made sense to me that we revisited this. And to me, for y'all out here that doesn't know what a non-consentual toe is. A non-consensual toe is private property. It has nothing to do with city, city parking, city, anything. This is private tow business. Um, and I for one member just don't think that we should be involved telling a man what he should get paid. Just let that be on the state and uh follow the state fee sheet. And that's that's kind of where I landed with this. And that's why I started, you know, trying to bring this back in front of council. Thank you. And one thing about the uh you brought up the credit card uh not having a credit card or having a company and and I get what you're saying, but I did look it up online and there are multiple cities that do require tow companies to carry them. So, I mean that would be something to talk to our tow companies about and see if they'd be willing to do that. It's pretty with technology today, it's very easily done. But uh if and that's the only case you would use that for is if the whoever parked in a um you know where they shouldn't have parked and they come back to their car and the uh they say look sorry you dropped my car you know and they don't have enough cash so they can pay with a credit card.

Yeah. My confusion is why we are involved in towing in the towing situation on private property. the private business owner put a sign up saying if you park here, you're going to be towed and they park there, a tow truck comes, gets it, takes the car away. Why is the city involved? Why do we have a police officer that has to go to that business and tie up that parking lot with a police car and a tow truck? If the policeman can't get there in a quick manner, then that parking lot is tied up with that car and that tow truck waiting for a police officer to get there. And I feel like our police officers have more important things to do than go and sit at a business with waiting and waiting on a tow truck to, you know, pick up a car. I just don't see where we should be involved with private property toes. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna let Dana explain why it makes sense, and I'm I'm hoping that after she's able to talk, it will make more sense. But, um, if if it was a perfect world, then everyone, uh, you know, did it in a way where it went smoothly and we didn't have problems, um, then, yeah, there wouldn't be a need for us to be involved. But I mean, you imagine you go on vacation, you park somewhere where it's not that you're intentionally doing something uh wrong. You're just ignorant to the way it works or you don't see the signs and you park your car and maybe you're only in there for 10 minutes to run in and get something and you come out and your car's gone. Um so you can imagine people are going to react in a variety of different ways. Some of which would require us to come and respond because number one, the person most likely thinks the car is stolen. Um, but you know, if we can send things in place to where we're aware, we have to lean on the the towing companies to give us the information we know that we need to know, but we're not doing it, then we have to set in uh motion these further um procedures to make sure that we get

the information that we need. And um you know, I I don't want to this has been around longer than I've been here, but Dana Dana could give a better explanation as to why uh why we have to be involved. Can you guys hear me?

Yeah. Um, so I guess I'll give a little bit of the historical uh perspective here. This is before my time when when this really this ordinance was changed to how it is now and and how the police department is involved at the time. I believe I was the special events lieutenant. So I didn't have anything to do with Towen, but my office was located right beside the uh the two gentlemen that did uh Lieutenant Sworth out and Sergeant Pollock. And I can tell you that I could uh from especially Monday mornings when we would come into work, you could hear the voicemail after voicemail after voicemail of complaints um that they would have to follow up on with someone coming. You know, we had a judge that came into town, he parked, went into his hotel to check in. When he came out, you the the 10 or 15 minutes it took him to check in and get his hotel keys. He comes out, his car is gone, his luggage is gone, everything's gone. That's within the first 15 minutes of him being in the city of North Myrtle Beach. Uh, and there were there was story after story like that. And I I do have so in May of 2020, at the time our director of public safety um went to council and I know at the time a lot of council members were getting these same phone calls. They were getting the same complaints about what was going on. and he went, this is an email and I I have a copy for each of you guys if you kind of want to see historically how we got here. Um, Director Fernandez asked at the time city manager Mahaney if we could have the business license pulled of one of those uh towing organizations because there were just a lot of complaints and it it involved there's there's one location in the city where it is signed and and I I don't disagree with anything you guys are saying. if if it's your personal property, you should you should um be allowed to say who's going to be on and on not on that property and who's going to be parking. But I think sometimes maybe you guys

think that that means that there's an owner that's calling on the phone and saying, "Hey, there's somebody in my parking lot like I need the car towed." But that's not always the case. Sometimes it is just the tow company is pulling up. It is March, so they're towing the vehicle. And there at the time especially there was not an agent um on record at the location. So that's not the way that's supposed to work. U there was supposed to be someone on property and but there was a dispute between the tow company and the city of whether that was accurate or not. But also that agent on record was supposed to sign a piece of paper and that tow company was supposed to contact us so that we just contact our dispatch. I think state law says within one hour. Um I know that other municipalities or organizations say within 45 minutes of that tow that vehicle being towed we needed to be contacted and there was just incident after incident of that not happening. So I can give you a copy and it kind of goes it starts in 2016 and it's just some different incidences and and issues that they were having at the time. So that's kind of I think we started workshopping it then and this is what the city came up with was a way for us to be able to minimize some of those complaints and since this has been effective we haven't had any issues. Um, sometimes it does. I think one of the the issues or one of the complaints that the tow companies have is especially like say Fourth of July weekend, you know, we can't get there within five or 10 minutes. And I do believe that they were promised some things at the time that like an officer would be there within five minutes. Anybody that lives in the city knows that that's not a that's not a valid promise for us to make as a city. But we have done u every year we meet with the tow companies. We try to to work hand inand with them and um we've done some studies to see we we get there within less than 15 minutes

88.9% of the time which I think I mean that's almost an A average. So we we do a very good job of getting on scene and and trying to take care of business. We have I believe that the fee used to be 150 and like you said you insurance has gone up, gas has gone up, you know fees have gone up. So, we did decide as a city to go with the the state to marry the state statute, which is now up to $272, which I think that's fair. Um, so we try to try to work with them, but I mean, as a city council, like what do you think is a fa if if you were to go out of town and you were to park, what do you think is a fair fee for you to if they hook up to your vehicle and you show up, what do you think is a fair fee for you to have to pay? Because in the in the end of the at the end of the day, it's not like a lot of work's been done. So, you know, they've arrived on scene, they've coupled to the vehicle, but they haven't they're not out gas, they're not out, you know, to storage fees or anything like that. So, I think that's what we were trying to say is as a city, what do we think is fair? Um, the season's just now starting, you know, and I can give you guys story after story, and a lot of times I think what happens between the police department and the tow companies is our missions just don't marry. You know, you guys know, you've dealt with our police officers. We are here to help. We're here to to make We want everyone who comes here, whether they live here, whether they're visitors, to have a great time. Um, a couple weekends ago, we had an older lady that came in town with her husband. They had they came from Arizona. They came straight here. The first thing they wanted to do is go to the beach. They park in the wrong parking lot. Uh, it takes, we watched the video, it takes them three minutes with him and his walker to get them across the street. Within 15 minutes, there's a tow truck there to tow her vehicle. um they've they haven't hooked to it yet. We're filling out the paperwork. She does she doesn't have $40 for the noto fee. She doesn't have she doesn't haveund so she ends up having to um to go to the ATM. But if she would

not have been able to do that, if she wouldn't have been close to somewhere, she could have done that. They would have towed her vehicle. And so you guys always say, well, we don't want officers to be spending time doing, you know, dealing with that at we look at it as we're going to be because who's going to be out there with that elderly couple? who's going to be making sure that they get to their hotel, you know, if if they don't if they if they're not really good with technology, it's not like they're like us, they would just call an Uber or whatever. So, it's it it puts that ownership back on us, however you slice slice that pie. Um, and I think the way we looked at it with putting this into place was that we could deal with it on the side of the road when we could actually we could hear both sides of the story and we could make a a a determination on what happened. It's a lot easier for us to do that than it is dealing with it on Monday morning after the people have already left and they're saying one thing happened and the tow company saying one thing happened. You know, we were showing up. There were there were fights. You know, that's just part of the business. people come out, they get pretty fiery. Um, they don't want their vehicle towed. So, and we we're going to deal with these issues. And this isn't something that is just specific or unique to the city of North Myrtle Beach. Myrtle Beach has a has a towing ordinance. Their their towing ordinance for non-consentual is a a police do not have to be on scene, but an agent on record has to be there as well as the tow company. They have to let them know within an hour that that it's been towed. and it they don't charge the full fee. Um they have a I think it was a $30 no tow fee and if the if they've already coupled it was a $60 decoupling fee. Um so they don't just charge the the full 272. But like I've told you guys before, all I can do is is give you the information that I have and how we got here and then let you guys make a decision on what you think is best for the citizens of North Myrtle Beach and for our visitors. Um, but again, Alison, can I give these home or

you want me to?

Chief, thank you. And I know we've talked to this about this a lot, but um and and I get that um that you feel and and and I trust you and believe in you, respect you certainly. So, I'm not even going to talk about uh whether or not we get our police officers not involved. I mean, I'm going to leave that alone. Um, but I got a question and I mentioned it to you, but I don't think we ever came to a conclusion. And I know it's only maybe 15% of the time or whatever. Maybe it's in July, but if there was a a time when a police officer couldn't get there, if our police officer were called up in other things, more important um and and couldn't get there if if there was like a 20 minute or time limit or something like that where the tow company or the agent or whoever could call dispatch and say, "Hey, look, it's been 20 minutes. Can we go ahead and tow the car? Go ahead and have that set up." That was just something I would like um for you to consider and think about because and the only reason is is if um you know if if I put and we're trying to do things not only for our residents but also our our visitors but if you get there and you got to wait 45 minutes for a police officer to get there before you can get your car unhooked that's going to you know that could be a huge issue and turn into it could just escalate the situation. So, I'm just trying to figure out I think our police offic because you and I you said that when our police officer gets there, they dis deescalate the situation. And um but if they're if it takes them 40 minutes to get there, that might be a little bit too late. Just something to think about.

I I agree with you. I I don't disagree that we could have a time and and we spoken about that with the tow companies. Uh, but I think we need to we would need to say what starts that 20 minute time, not just them saying, "I've been here 20 minutes." Because they could they could pull in the parking lot and say, "I've been here 20 minutes, so I towed the vehicle." So, what would start that 20 minutes and what would end that 20 minutes? Sure. And would that be like you would they have to call in and say, "I'm on scene." Um, one of the tow companies did mention that they have a a um software management and if we could somehow connect with that software management program, uh, we think that that would be a way to do it, but that we would have to do some research to look into see if if we what we would have to do financially and um, just physically be able to to tap into that software program and that's that's a possibility. But otherwise, I think it would just be sitting down and saying what would start that time and what would end that time. And we're not opposed to that because like I said, 88.9% of time we're getting there less than

than 15 minutes. I think one time this year it was over. And a lot of times I feel like we talk about the outliers. We talk about the one time it took us over 50 minutes or the two times it took us over 30 minutes. Like that's not happening all the time. However, when we did look at our numbers, we did see that sometimes there is a difference between like especially if dispatch is really busy of when the call is received and when they dispatch it out. And we're always going off of dispatch time. But that's typic you're not talking, you know, five or 10 minutes. You're talking, you know, three or four minutes, but that does make the time.

How do you get notified now? So, when the tow truck gets there, they call the police department. the agent on record and the tow truck have to be on scene and then we get a phone call and then we from one or the other from the property owner or manager at the property or the tow truck. Yeah. Yes, ma'am.

I have a few concerns. I don't I just really want to state my concerns more than I need I do anything else just to to put it on record, I guess. Um, I try to look outside the box a little bit, not just at when I make a decision on with the city, but also how my decision affects the private property owners and the businesses. Sure.

Um, and that that's my primary concern here is the process and and the way it affects the the burden it puts on our businesses and especially businesses that have very limited parking. Um, you've got some restaurants that have very limited parking. You have some hotels that have very limited parking for their guest and you get this situation that happens and you tie up their parking lot and the customers are coming in to stay, check in, do whatever and they don't have the space they need and and you know because they just can't get right out. Um the other thing that it's like the judge and I hate that happened that went in and they pulled him out while he was checking in. It seems like that situation would police itself. So, if I'm the owner of that business and I've hired I've contracted a tow company to monitor my parking lot and he keeps towing my customers, I'm going to find a new tow company. Um, because he's impacted me. Um, and the other thing, I don't mean this bad because I I value our beach parking. I understand the benefit it does for us, but us starting beach paid parking and then beach paid parking on the second rows, the side rows, the third rows, we've implemented a process that has burdened our private property owners. Our process is the reason that our private property owners are dealing with what they deal with today. Um, so I'm just saying that I'm not saying I don't like Beach Paid parking because it does benefit us. But that process, I mean, I'm sure if you ask any of these towe companies, they didn't really deal with this until we started doing paid parking because the other thing, and this might have been different 10 years ago when paid parking wasn't so common at beachfront communities, but about any beach community you go to on the East Coast now, they have paid beach parking. So, it's pretty normal for our visitors to come and expect that. So, you know, I

hate to say it, but a lot the majority that are parking in these private parking lots that have signage posted all over them are probably rolling the dice trying to see if they can go to the beach without having to pay to park. Um, that's just kind of my two cents. And then of course, always I always try to look at the liability side of things. And I did talk to Chris and he said that if we got named in something because of an incident that we would get out of it. And I do understand that, but Chris doesn't work for free either. So there is the process of getting to the point where our city is taken out of the lawsuit. If that happened, it might not, but we never know. And then the time of our police officers responding to all these calls, that obviously impacts our taxpayer as well. So that's just some of the things that I I just want to voice my concern on. Thank you. So what I mean we really want coming out of this is some direction in terms of what you want us to bring back to you. So I mean um you know for me the pro I mean yeah we have a lot of people that that park in private lots that they shouldn't but that's that's not a problem with the ordinance or how it works and that that we have it in place. Those folks have a vehicle by which they could call and have have those vehicles towed from their private property. So, um, that's it's the solution, not the problem. The problem, um, yeah, we've got the officers having to show up, but I feel that if this wasn't in place, we'd be showing up a whole lot more and not into a controlled environment. You'd be a more hostile environment because that's why we're there. Um, and you know, I I just feel like this is one of those issues, and I'm not trying to I just feel like sometimes we try to solve problems, create solutions for problems that don't necessarily exist. I mean, all I know is I again, I wasn't here before, but it sounded like there was a problem with the way we did it. This was the solution and it works for our police department.

I don't hear any complaints from our police department about how this functions. The, you know, the private property owners who have people parking on their lots, that's a problem. Yes. I don't get any complaints from these private property owners about the I don't hear them though. That's what I'm saying. But they're not getting to me and I don't know if they're getting to you, but I don't hear complaints from those folks. So, you've got um these two entities. We're the on one end of it. You got the private property owners who are the ones wanting this done. I don't hear complaints from the those sides. And I don't hear complaints from those who are getting towed where in the past we got plenty of them because it just wasn't handled in a way in which um they felt respected or it was all above board. Um, so I'm not getting complaints from people who are getting towed. Uh, so at the end of the day, I don't I don't know who the the problem is other than the tow companies. And if it's just about money and what is the what is the acceptable rate, I mean, it's the free market. I mean, obviously, they engage in this this type of behavior, this type of activity because it's lucrative enough. No one's forcing them to do that type of towing. If we had a situation where all of a sudden no toe companies are engaging in this, well then yeah, we have a problem. we got to raise. We'd have to allow the rates to be raised because it's not lucrative enough. But the one the one tow company that engages in it, they do it for I'm sure they do it for a reason and that reason is to make money. That's their business. But um I I just I I just don't want to go down this road of trying to fix all these things that aren't really a problem. If it's just about the rate, that's fine and that's simple enough and that's what it initially was. And if they tell us that's all we're going to do, just make all the towing, whether it's consensual or non-consensual, all the same. keeps it easy and simple. And I don't know that you necessarily have a problem with that part of it or any of us do. Um, but if we're going to get into this these other things, that's that's fine as well. I'm just we're going to need direction from you guys as to what you want us to to change and what to bring back to you. Well, I mean, right now this came up about the rate and then of course, you know, other concerns have come up, but

um the rate matching the state fee. I thought that was the way we should have done to start with with content consensual tow. And like Councilman Skidmore said is the reason is you got more liability in a consensual toe or non-consensual toe than you do if you're going to a wreck car vehicle. Um it takes just as much time if not more. You got to wait on a police officer. Um, so I just think that fee, we ought not to pick that fee. You know, that's just my thoughts. But, um, then, so then there was, um, it came up, but I think it is right now. Let me ask you, if you, if a owner shows up and they drop the car, the tow company can actually charge this the total amount of the fee if they want to. They could choose to charge less. No, the way that works is so what we we did at some point in time like last year we changed the fact because before they could not couple to the vehicle until an officer arrived and so we did allow them to couple to the vehicle before we arrived as long as they took a photograph of it of the vehicle there. Mhm.

So, um there has been some dispute whether that means they can then charge the full fee or if it's a $40 notto fee. So, the way the ordinance is written is it says that all the signatures have to be there. So, it's basically an officer arrives on scene, an officer is filling out the paperwork. When the officer, the agent on record, and the tow truck driver signs that paperwork, that vehicle is then the tow truck companies and they can charge the full amount. Prior to that, it is a no tow fee. And so, like a couple of weeks ago, and this is on us, this is on my officer that was that was on scene. They pull up, the vehicle is already coupled, the tow company is saying, "You owe us $175." Because right now, it's not the $275. The $272, it's $175. That's the most that they can charge for non-consensual. The people are, you know, upset. They're like, "This is a racket. The city of North, they're the city's just trying to get money. We're just trying try here trying to eat." And and the the agent on record is saying, "Hey, you it's properly signed. You shouldn't have parked here." And they're totally right. Um but that should have been the $40 no tow fee, but the record company is charging the full 175. Well, then within 30 minutes, I believe we're right back there at the parking lot across from it, which is closed. So, and I get what you're saying, like, hey, there's nowhere for people that are parked here. There's nowhere for patrons. Like, it's a closed business. We get called to come to a a noto for or I'm sorry, for a tow for a Ford M F-150. By the time the officer arrives, the person in the Ford F-150 has already paid $175 to get their car dropped. And there's two records there and they're both they both have a vehicle. So now within 30 minutes there's three vehicles that are paying

the 175 for I mean and that's what I'm saying like that and then those people are upset. They're I'm not saying they should have parked there. I'm just saying they look at that as they're being prayed upon like so they're just circling and while we're on scene you have the tow truck drivers who are saying over and over and over hey I'm not getting paid unless I'm towing and so when you get a job and you're basically working off commission, "Hey, the more cars you tow today, the more money you're going to make." Of course they're out trying to tow as many vehicles as they can. So,

well, I think there ought to be a a drop fee for sure because you're not, you know, it save everybody a lot of trouble, but I don't know what that number is. So, and I get there's different details, but that I was just really trying to get into the issues because Ryan, you said what are the, you know, what where are we going here? And we're going talking about batching the state fee with a non-consentual toes as if I got this correct. And we're talking about a drop fee and we're talking about credit card uh machine that uh and then of course it came up about not being involved at all. I don't know. you know, that's, you know, that's depends on where we go, even if we want to go there. But, uh, anyway, uh, that that's kind of what we're looking at right now, right?

Yes. I mean, if it sounds like it's going to take further conversation, but we talked to Myrtle Beach today and they do it differently than us. And I think it the way they do it might possibly work for us, but it's just kind of set up in a different way where um you know, we still would have a requirement for them to notify us that the toes, you know, the towing all the paperwork would need to be filled out. Um and you know, audit for

then we would Yeah. Then we would be in a position where we would go and audit make sure that all the tickets that they have all the tickets for all the toes. And then there's fines associated with it. So if they're they don't do what they say we're trusting them to do what they say they're doing and then we go audit it after the fact. And if they don't have the necessary paperwork, they can't show that they have what they need, they'll then fines would be associated with a tow, which would be, you know, significant if we patterned it after what Myrtle Beach does. Um, and we could do that in a way where it wouldn't require our officers to go out to every single toe. Um, but that's a way to in to incentivize the tow toe companies to make sure they do everything we need them to do. Notify us, make sure everything's above board. Um, and then, you know, just the idea that we could audit them at any time. Um, that would be the motivator so that they don't get fined. But, um, you know,

state have a drop fee. So, the state doesn't the state doesn't deal with non-consentual towing. Their fee is only for like vehicle accidents or hazardous vehicles. So, this is something that is typically Ory County does have some some like hotels, but this is typically something that the municipalities deal with.

So, I just know from experience that there's a drop fee. And I I I only know one for me. I was in the county looking for a duck hunting piece of property, me and a buddy, and we came back, our cars were hooked up, and we paid a hundred bucks to get them dropped. And that was about 10 years ago. But I've heard of other people doing that in other cities. I just hadn't. Myrtle Beach and Or County does it. Or County. We read their ordinance today. It's like they'll whatever the the full fee full rate is, their drop fee is 50% of whatever it is. So I don't 40 might be too low. I don't Yeah. And I don't know. I don't claim to know what it what the cost $100. I know 10 years ago. Yeah. So remember

let's look at that as as like a a service call if you were to call a plumber to your house or something right like that. I mean obviously they've got expense with it. Um you know they've mobilized whether whether that that record was at their yard or whether it was you know next door. I mean there's a certain amount of overhead and cost with it. Yeah, I mean somewhere in the in the you know around 50% of the normal one would I don't I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's just I don't don't know what that number would be and I'm sure that would be um% of the 272 would be 136. But if you're in a position where you could save them the trouble of towing it back that vehicle owner have to go drive

half half or something. We need to study that and think about that though. But we do have is anybody else got any I mean we want to hear from our toe we have some tow companies here. One more thing just and I this is personal experience. So, and as a property owner, you have the right even if you're closed not to want people to park on your property. And prime example, so and I'm sure any any of the police officers in here know across from Moto's that little pancake house, Moto used to party at night and slam beer bottles and everything down on the ground. And then when that pancake house would open the next morning, they had to come out and clean that parking lot up. So that primary, for an example, is one reason why a business doesn't want people parking in their parking lots because you get people that don't care and they don't respect it and then that business opens the next morning and they've got to pay to clean up somebody else's mess. So ju that just being said, I mean, just because a business isn't open doesn't mean they don't have the right to say, "I don't want people parking at their private property." And I think everyone agrees with you. I just want to clarify. I'm not by any means saying that people should be allowed to park on property they don't own. And I believe we have the framework for anyone can call it to have them towed. We're more concerned about the process and making sure that the process that we have either keep the process and just change the

the rates. That wouldn't really be that much of a disruption for us. But if you want to change the way we do it, I think there are other ways we can discuss it. But this isn't about not having people. I get I get it. This is just uncomfortable for me because this is private property and I got the way I my beliefs this is uncomfortable for me. Yeah, I get it. How many toes did happen last year? I mean

187 to 187. Um and 24% of that was from almost 25% of that was from one property which was out in barefoot and we had zero complaints or zero issues with it. It was a one of the establishments out there that called um it's we typically have no issues whatsoever. Does that include drops 187 incidents with whether they were towed or dropped?

Yes. Yes. Um, and something uh Chris just brought to my attention is, you know, we still have a lot of the communications that we were receiving back when this originally started in 2020 when it was brought to you guys to begin with. And it wasn't just like people being on property and they shouldn't be there. There were a lot of people who um maybe had displayed their tag in their vehicle and it had fallen and so it would it would be laying right on the seat, but because it wasn't hanging on the rearview mirror, they would come out the next day and their their car was gone. And then when they would get in their car, they would send pictures of, you know, my tag was right here, the due diligence wasn't wasn't done by the tow company before because it wasn't like there was a property owner saying, "I have a problem with this car being here." Like, it's there and it should legally be there. And so then they would send the mayor at the time, they would send the council members, I paid x amount of dollars to be here. Imagine my surprise when I walked out this morning. My car was gone. You know, I I diligently, you know, displayed my tag. It you know, so it was it was all kinds of issues. It just wasn't one type of thing. There were business license issues. There were us not getting contacted when a vehicle was getting towed. Um so we we don't know that it's been removed from the property. It was it was just a lot of layers on top of layers of us just having a difficult time controlling what was going on with improper towing and um you know other other municipalities have a person that that's all they deal with is complaints from or because the tow companies do have to be audited. The they have to be the records have to be inspected and we we do not have that now. So if we are to make changes then we you know we'll probably need someone that that's what they do on a daily basis. So

what do you mean by I'm sorry but when you say so that would be adding a staff member. Um I think we would I think we would need to see how a after we make changes see how that works. see what kind of work volume that adds to someone before we we wouldn't just inadvertently ask for somebody without having the knowledge of whether we'd need or not. But possibly maybe we do not have the same amount of um towing companies that other organizations have either. So, we have someone that does it, but it's on at a part on a part-time basis. Now, just so we're clear, this is for non-consensual towing or this is for

It would be all for all towing. Yeah. Yeah. Not just non-conentual. We have several tow company here. Would you like to come up and say anything, ask us any questions or How are we doing today? Great. How are you?

Care about a microphone. My name is James Gau. I'm the owner uh of Gau's towing in Little River. I operated in the city of North My Beach. Um when this ordinance was first started, I bring attention to it. It was over 450 complaints about predatory towing in North My Beach. I think in the last year, we had less than 20. Those the law you have in place works because it stops people from stealing people's cars. I would say that first. I would say secondly, in modern day times, if you can't put a credit card except on your phone, something's wrong. Every towing company almost in Ory County can take payment on side of the road or in a parking lot or anywhere they have to because called a square and it's modernized. If you can dispatch from a phone, you can take a credit card from a phone. So, there's no excuse that it can't be done on the street. Dropping fees, you do need to have a drop in fee that's a little bit higher than 150 175 I think what it is now. It it cost us to operate myself. I pay almost $80,000 a year in insurance. If I come out, it's worth more than 40 bucks to to hook a car. Just being very honest. It needs to be around somewhere around 100 bucks, $125 where we should be to keep up with modern times. And that should increase about four to six% per year because that's what goes around when it comes to insurance. The fees that go along with the state as far as towing vehicles, we need to be in line with that as well. They give us about a $3 to $5 raise each year, which is probably a 2% raise because the insurance goes up 10%. So, at the end of the day, we need to keep up with that rate as well. But we do need a better drop in fee and it needs to be able to be done on side of the road because if they can't do it on side of the road, they shouldn't be towing. Modern day times, if they can tow a car beside the road, they can get the fees on side of the road. If not, there's a reason why. The reason is you don't want to take that fee because you want to tow it back and get the whole 272. That's what it boils down to. It's about money. I tell people all the time, if it stinks bad, it goes to the money. That's what we got going on. Second thing is um

probably 10 things. I know my three minutes are almost up. U wait time on the scene. I don't do a lot of non-consentual towing, but the ones that I have done, I get there, police officer there normally a very timely fashion. I don't expect them to be there in 20 minutes when there's a accident going on down the street or the bank robbery. You can't expect that. You got to have common sense when it comes down to the the times. If you want to do it right, you'll be cons you'll have time to do it right because they will be there in a timely fashion. Um I think that if you open the door for predatory towing, you'll get predatory response. If you keep laws in place and keep rules in place to control the atmosphere, you'll get the right results. City off my beach is on the right path. I would say that not putting any other toying company down, but when you allow the door to open, snake crawls in. Keep your doors closed. Keep it terminated. You won't have any problems.

You have a question for me? I do. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Hit a button with me. You said predatory towing. Yes, sir. Because a man is contracted with a tow company to police his private parking lot. Yes, sir. So, if he's got a contract with you or any other tow company in this business and you're doing your job, why is that predatory to Okay, so here's what predatory toying to me is.

Okay, I run to company. A man hires me to do his job. Okay, I have a right to do its job, but I also have to be fair about how I do the job. If a person comes there and they have a sticker that says it must be displayed on the D on the wiper on the um rearview mirror and it falls off on the floor, I can clearly see it. Is it right to tow that vehicle? Well, technically yes. But morally, no, because you got to have common sense in what you do. So, if it's on the floorboard, I walk into the car and look at the VIN number. I see it laying on the dash beside the VIN number when it should be hanging in the mirror. If you take that vehicle and you can see it, that's predatory toying because you have to have some type of morals. And if you're not ethical, it's called predatory towing.

Once again though, and I don't disagree with you. Yes, sir. But that falls on the owner that's contracted with that toe company. He should find him a new tow company.

Well, here's the thing. In the city of North My Beach, you're limited on how many towing companies you have. There's seven, six or seven. Two of them I own, two of them coastline to owns. Then you have four other towing companies. Not many people want to be bothered. I choose the path of less resistance. I don't do a lot of um non-consentual towing. I don't choose to fight with people. I don't choose to go there and take their vehicle when they're angry. I would much have you have you call me on a much easier circumstance. So I choose the area of less resistance. There's other people who is very profitable and it's a lucrative business. I just don't choose to do it. Property owners can't find many people to do it in North Beach. So, what are you going to do?

Are you going to put up with a a complaint from your customer who you're going to see once a year or the police going to get a call every Monday morning from thousands of them who get it done wrong? Well, and I don't disagree with you. That job is not a pretty business, right? And every time you go, you don't know what you're going to get into when you get in there. And and Mr. Goff, I like you. You know I do. You were the gentleman I called that told me if you could get paid paid a fair fair wage, you might be more inclined to get into that business. Correct. So, as a city with what we've done, we've hurt our private businesses there as well because at the such a low, which we're correcting that we're fixing that, but we have impacted our private property owners there, too, because the pay fee was so low that they didn't have any options.

Correct. So, but that and I'm sorry, but when you said predatory towing, it just hits. You didn't like that word. But, and once again, I think if somebody's there yanking vehicles that shouldn't be yanked, the private property owner should find another tow company. And I get this the struggles, but if they're going to get paid a fair wage, hopefully they'll have an easier time finding another tow company. Yes, sir. In my defense, when we had that discussion, I said very clearly to you, $150 was not worth me getting shot at. Right. And I said this to the council and to the audience. $150 was not worth me getting shot at.

A 272 toe would also allow other people who don't do it because it's not because here's the thing. If I'm paying $80,000 a year for insurance on my tow trucks. I can go down the street and get an accident or impound for 272 and I'm back at my yard in 30 minutes, 45 minutes. That's a good business.

I'm not I'm not afraid to tell you. But if I got to go to a parking lot, I don't have a key. I'm looking at a $80,000 $100,000 vehicle. I got to be extra careful with I got to put dollies under the wheels. I got to strap it down. I got to take my time and then still waiting on the police department. Is that very lucet 150? No, sir. So, yeah, you get 100 $270. You make it more competitive. More more companies are going to start doing it. Yeah, they're going to have a lot more people to choose from. But you got to make it worthwhile. You can't go to a job and get paid $5 an hour at McDonald's when you can get $25 down the street at Burger King. Where you going to go? That's the answer. I appreciate you. Yes, sir. Thank you. I'm a very straight up person, so I'll be very honest with you. Any more questions that I can answer for you? Thank you so much.

All right. Thank you for your time. I appreciate you.

How's y'all doing today? Good. Please give your name and address.

My name is Richard Paid on Coastline towing and affordable towing. And I'm sure most of this what we're talking about today has probably got to do with my businesses. Dana, I want to appreciate everything you said done for the city. I respect you and appreciate everything you're doing. There's a whole lot to say. I don't know where to start, but I just kind of want to start from the beginning. I want to do like kind of like Dana, if y'all don't mind. I mean, uh, it's going to I'm going to be here for a minute. This whole thing started I don't know, I'd probably say seven, eight, 10 years ago. started when we had Jay Fernandez as a uh North Per Beach public safety director. I've been doing towing in this city for over 35 years, longer than any of these guys back here. Excuse me, except for your problem. Uh I've dealt with storms, I've dealt with uh fires, we've dealt with anything to do with the community. We tried to be there for the community. end of the day, uh, towing is an issue. The city of North Myrtle Beach not too long ago was not the size it is today, but it is. You know, obviously when people come, that means more cars, more people, more people parking where they weren't supposed to be. And, you know, this beach is probably not any different from normal beaches. It started out small. You know, my family's been here since the 40s. Uh, I grew up in this town. Uh, I've seen a lot of changes and and we got a lot of stuff that was built back then. Probably a lot of it wasn't even permitted. Uh, a lot of these older mom and pop motel don't have the proper parking. Uh, in the early days, probably in the late 70s when the condos started coming around. Uh, they were building, but obviously they didn't have the parking straight. Today, you know, I don't think we have that problem today. I think y'all realize what's going on. on when y'all permit a building to get built, y'all try to allow for all that. But anyway, long story short, I want to

kind of go back to where this started. Uh we were towing used to if we had an issue, I could walk into city hall anytime. Uh go in there and see the police chief. Uh we would talk about an issue, we could probably have it resolved in 10 or 15 minutes. Uh then the city grew, you know, got to where you couldn't even get in and see the mayor. I can remember times that I went to see uh a previous mayor that was here, just left. I went to city hall and asked to see her. She wouldn't even come out and see me. Also went to the city manager, tried to go see the city manager uh before you were hired. Uh he wouldn't come out and see me. You know, I'm a person that's I got several businesses in the in the city.

Richard, I don't want to cut you short, but we need to we need to move on to the topics at hand here. And I know the whole, you know, I've been here the whole time. I understand that. Let Let me get to Jay Fernandez. Okay. Well, we know what he said, too. So, he said there'd be a police officer within 3 minutes. We all question that. So, we know we that didn't work that way. That's No, what I want to talk about is the the paper he had us he come up with a paper he wanted us to sign to do the property impounds.

He wanted to get a control on what was going on and and and what we were doing. Well, we didn't mind doing that. So anytime we towed a car, we always always called within 30 minutes. Always when we towed a car. So he wanted us to fill out a paper, fax it over to the city when we got finished with the tape. So we done that. We probably operated on that system for a year, maybe two years. Uh eventually things started breaking down. Uh the city's uh fax machine was not working. uh they couldn't receive tes. We'd call and ask what to do. We just keep on keep up with them, send them through. Well, I don't know what happened, but over probably another year or so, things like that kept happening with the city. We continued filling out those papers. We had those papers. Uh and I'm not sure if Dana was here or not, but I think one of the gentlemen over there was here. Uh at at this time, we probably had over a thousand of them uh that were never sent in. And the reason why they never come got them, fax machine working or not, don't know. But at that point in time is when they went to council and told council there was an issue and they needed to do something about it. Uh and I just wanted y'all to know that the whole time we were doing what we were supposed to do, but for some reason it didn't get across the full council. Uh and I'm glad again that that Dana did say I reckon y'all heard her say that they were trying to take my business license. Uh and just to let y'all know, uh gentleman over there, he had us audited. We had the fire department on us on not just one business owned several businesses that I owned in town. Uh had the county uh called the county police on us called sled called even the addressing people. They were trying to put us out of business.

You heard you heard Dana say that's she said that this ex city manager that's correct wanted or or mentioned I don't know exactly what her words were but said something about the ex city manager nobody else but look Richard let's don't go into all that what we're doing is looking for the future not at the past. Yeah, I realize that. I'm just I'm just trying and I just want to know if you got any solutions that like Mr. Goss over there, you know, brought up some great ideas. I like, you know, I I want to just hear if you got any solutions we Well, my solutions is this that, you know, we try to get to a deal on paper on what we can do. In my opinion, this is a civil matter. Would you agree this is a civil matter? I think y'all know this is a civil matter that

we shouldn't even we shouldn't even y'all shouldn't even be involved in this. This is between property property management and well thank you for that your comments on that. I get that but

all right. Uh so I just want to understand you know y'all to understand that it should be that way. Uh obviously I see where I'm going here. I can't say what I really want to say. So I'll just I reckon I'll end it. If we need to settle on on the money for the what we talked about how this whole thing started, you know, we don't mind for doing the leave it where it is. Uh I think right now it's $175. Is that where it is? Okay, if y'all don't want to do 272, let's meet there. Uh if we if we need to meet in the middle, let's meet in the middle. But but again, I just want to say that I think the whole process needs to be looked at and and in my opinion needs to go away. Okay. I think it should be between a property owner and a and a and a towing company.

And some council members agree with you, but it's kind of a Well, well, I Well, I appreciate that tough situation. Thank you so much. Thank you, Richard. Richard, hold up. When you said that about 175 towing fee, are you talking about $175 to tow or are you talking about the drop fee? No, I think what Dana is concerned about is the drop fee. Uh and I and I the current drop fee for you when you uh the current drop fee now is $40, I think. Okay.

Uh but what happened when that was never reset when we went over to the highway patrol thing a couple of years ago and it was all supposed to been adopted. The whole uh highway patrol was supposed to been adopted and I think council thought it was going to be until the last reading and we had one council member stand up and said that she didn't agree with it and was not going to go along with it. So it was changed and I think y'all are part of the council at that time didn't realize what was going on. So so they took they took they took the non-consential out and set their own fees. So what do you feel like the drop fee should be?

Well, I think listen like Mr. G said things cost a lot. I'm sure the police chief will tell you the same thing. I hate to even know what her budget is a year. I'm sure it's a lot. Uh but our stuffs are not getting cheaper neither. We don't want a reduction. You know, I mean, I think we should get I think personally the whole thing, but if y'all don't want us to get the whole thing, then I think leave it at $175. Uh you know, and and I think I had a conversation with y'all. If we need to do half, we need to do half, but not $40. you know, and and I talked with the chief about this before we got into thing. I I sat down with her the last record meeting and there was five things. Uh, can I mention what those five things are? Would y'all mind if I do that?

Would you mind, Mr. Mayor?

Go ahead. I think one thing that's been a concern if y'all are going to lit this thing and the way it is now and I just want y'all to understand it. I don't agree with it. I think it needs to be out of out of the police department's hands and and into the private property. But this is what we asked. I asked the chief if she could come up with a with minutes. I think you heard her say that she thought that 20 minutes. Am I right? And I think you told me that and I think at that time that I said 15 minutes is what we were asking and I think we both just kind of looked at each other and smiled. Uh council that's going to have to be y'all's decision if y'all decide to go that way.

We brought that up on the table.

Correct. Correct. So, you know, whatever y'all decide on that would be fine be fine with us if y'all decide to do that. Another thing we ask is is I think we've got to uh we don't agree with a with a hookup deal as far as when we're coupled or not coupled. We got to go out and do a job. I think Mr. Gauls even addressed this. When we crank our trucks up, it costs X amount of dollars to show up on the scene. All we're asking for, you know, is a is a fair rate and to be paid. If we get on the scene, we never charge if we don't if we don't leave with the vehicle or hook to the vehicle. And I think you thought that we had sometimes when we get on the scene. We don't do that. We've never done that. So, just so y'all know that if we get on the scene, the people walk out, have a good day, we'll see you next time. Uh, so we don't charge for that. But I think that we should, if we're coupled, we should get the $175 or or whatever y'all fee if y'all decide to do that. whatever the feed y'all think we should get. Uh

okay.

Uh non non-consential. Uh let's Yeah, it gets back to uh we asking y'all to match the state and and the the county. Uh and obviously y'all know if y'all do that. I think one of the other reasons why because we went almost 10 years without a raise. And I don't think any business should have done that. Uh, with doing this, everything across the board will go up as the highway patrol goes up. And as Mr. G said, most of the time it's only a dollar or $2, $3, $4 at a time. And sometimes it don't raise at all. Uh, just so you know that. Uh, let me see. Yeah, we already addressed it. We don't charge if we're not hooked up to it. Uh, let's see. I think this has been an issue and I think Dana addressed that this weekend or last weekend. Uh when Mr. Fernandez was here. One of the big issues I had obviously also about the time was if we get on a scene, uh I had to ask him if we get there and there's five people, we call the city, the city comes down, the it was my understanding that if the police officer gets on the scene and there's five vehicles need to be towed, write them up there because now we have some police officers, not all, some police officers, they won't even let us tow the cars. They'll tell us we got to call back into the police department. We got to have them send another car when there's already an officer right there in front of us. That's if y'all going to continue with that program, please. If there's five, they should be able to write five or how many there's there on the scene because it cost again for them to show up for us to go back and come back, especially when we already have somebody on the scene. And the biggest thing is, guys, safety this day and time. Uh, you know, there's a lot of people out there doing some crazy things and I don't want to see any of my guys get hurt and I don't want to see any of Dana's officers get hurt. Uh, I think

that in a situation like this, and this is another reason why I think that it should be between the owner and a and a tow company, you know, we can get there and get hooked up and get out without without any problems. If we're waiting, and I'm not saying it's all the time, mayor, I'm just saying that sometimes uh we should have a limit.

I got it. Uh there should always be a plan B. Uh that's my thinking. Uh one more thing, signs. I think we talked about the signs. Uh I don't know if y'all know this, but North Myrtle Beach is the only city that I'm aware of uh in the county, should I say. I'm not going to say about anywhere else because all I can speak is about the county. Uh Mr. Fernandez had her change our tow signs from at that time to 24 by 24 signs. Well, I know y'all seen my signs. They're all over the beach. They're huge, big stick out like a uh they're twice the size than any other tow sign. The city of North Beach, y'all's tow signs are 12 x 18. County is 12 x 18. Highway patrol is 12 x 18. And most everybody's 12 x 18. Uh do you know of anybody else got 24 x 24 signs? Dana, excuse me, chief. Uh I don't know of any. And and I know that just seems small, but that's just something to address. Uh there's a lot of expense in getting those signs that that size. Uh Chris, is there anything else?

Thank y'all for your time. Thank you, too. Thank you.

I'm Regina Allen, Allen's Auto Service, 16:30, Highway 17 South. Um just to answer some questions, we've never waited 20 minutes on the police department to my knowledge. Never. Um, when we go to a private property, if the people show up, this is North Myrtle Beach, and while the population is exploding, we still have rooms, condos, and houses to rent. We don't want to run our tourist off. My drivers are instructed to let them go. I've never charged a drop fee. I'm losing money, I guess, but I've never charged a drop fee. Um, I think that the police officers do diffuse some situations. They're not all bad, but they do diffuse situations. And so I am in agreement with keeping the police officers coming to the scene for private property. Yes, the owner is the one that calls it in, but when you go to hook up to somebody's personal car, they become our rate. Um, even the calmst person can become rate.

Thank you so much. Thank you, too. Is is there anybody else from a tower? you with a tow towing company. Oh, okay. Is anybody else from a towing company? Because this kind of workshop on a fee about a tow uh but if you're not I don't see anybody else from a tow company coming. If you can come up and please give your name and address and we we'll move into public comment. We have a threeminut time limit. Okay. Thank you. My name is Don Porter and uh I live in uh Springs Towers at 2200 North Ocean Boulevard. I'm a permanent resident there and owner. I'm also the president of the HOA there. Yes, sir.

And uh we've been going through this towing thing for a long time. I mean, back in the 2000 early 2000s, but uh since this ordinance came through, it's been very burdensome on us and I I would like to seek some kind of relief or streamline the process somewhat. You know, currently if I have somebody I have to tow, have to call the police, call the tow company, wait for them to come. When the when they get there, the police come in and they check your ID, run it through their computer. Then they get the license number of the vehicle and run that through the computer. And then they have this form they fill out. It all takes a lot of time. If they could just somehow come in and say, "Okay, go ahead and tow it and do the paperwork later." That would that would probably help a lot to streamline the process. There's there's most likely other things, but uh where we're located there, it's extremely I think it's a lot different in most places because we have at least four maybe five businesses there, busy businesses and they don't have any any parking spots and people do not like to pay for parking. Snookies, for example, they have no parking basically. And on their website, they say there's plenty of parking across the street, which happens to be us. They also have a lot that they rent some spaces, but then you the parasale guys that they're coming in, they have no parking. Murphy's has limited parking. Benny Rapids has basically no parking. So the people don't want to pay. So they

want to come and sit there, but we don't have enough places to handle all that. So sir, if we got to go through all this rigma roll to tow, then I think it'd be nice to try to streamline it some so it can go faster. Thank you. And if you have several trucks to tow or cars to tow, then you have to go through the process each time. And the police will only do one car at a time. I understand. And I don't see any reason why they couldn't do all of them while they're there, but Thank you. Okay. I appreciate your time. Yes, sir. Thank you so much.

All right. I'll just tell you my experience. My name is Jimmy Michael. I live at 1800 Parin Drive. And I've talked to you about this before. My problem is the fact that I'm being one responsible for having to call a tow truck as a resident. You're kind of putting me in with as a resident versus a business that that's that's handling that. I should have to be able to call the police and they should be able to handle towing the vehicle. So, what my problem is was was with castaways. They just told them to come park on my property. And so I called the non-emergency 911 number and they said, "Nope, you have to call the tow truck and then once you do that, then you can call us back and we'll come verify you're the property owner and then we'll tow the vehicle." And that's not resp that that should not be my responsibility if somebody is invading my private property as a resident that I think that should be handled by the police totally just to stop anything from happening because it really aggravates me that I spent a lot of money on a piece of property and somebody just comes and parks on it and it that's going to come back with this new hotel going in. It's going to be the same problem and I should not have to be the one that has to deal with that. I I've got the signs up there. I've had all that. I You can come down Pin Drive now and you can see they're parking all over it now. They don't park in mine because I'm out there every day now. I was not a full-time resident until uh till recently. But I've owned property there for since the mid70s. My family did. And then I've owned a house I've owned a piece of property there for almost 10 years now. and and but I I don't understand why I should be responsible for getting a tow service and deal with that. I I should not be lumped in with a business that has to deal with towing all the time.

I understand and I I don't know how to answer that question. That's something we'll have to look into. But I do know uh that because I've had it happen to me where I had a car pull in and park blocking my uh driveway and I I called and I couldn't get it towed. It's been some time until I got to they went through all this scenario. So, I'm not so sure if that's a city or state or something, but no. So, we actually that is one change that I certainly believe we need to to make to our current ordinance because when it was written um private property like a residential area should not be lumped in with commercial. Exactly. But so, but that being said,

we certainly don't have anything to do with your private property. So you should be able to call and tow anyone without us having to be involved. You're the homeowner. That is between it's the commercial. So we should have named that towing ordinance the commercial non-con, not private property. Okay. So it's kind of I'm not going to say I really agree with what you're requesting, but I do think that ordinance should be changed. I called and they said that I have to deal with I have to call the tow truck. That's what the emergency 911 for North Myrtle Beach told me.

Well, that you do. You do have to call the tow truck, but then we also are have to be there. That was never originally that wasn't the spirit of the law. It's not We did. We We just needed to add commercial to it instead. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you.

I have a question. This made me think of it. So, this has been years ago, but I had a random vehicle at Foxfire that parked in the middle of my street. And so I actually called at the time was Coastline many years ago and asked him if he would come tow the vehicle for me. Well, I had to get signage and then I had to get registered. So it took probably two days before I could actually get that vehicle towed off my private property roads. And the reason this just triggered with me so at barefoot right off of 37th to go to Smith Street which is a very traveled road going to Food Line and all that to go into my office area I've got a rolling gate that I open and close. So, and I'm not registered with anybody at Barefoot, but if I come to work tomorrow and there's a car parked in front of my gate and I don't know whose it is, what's going to be required of me to get that car towed? because they're blocking the entrance to my office.

The way the current ordinance is written, you would have to comply with the the current ordinance. So, that's what I'm saying. I think that needs to be separated and commercial as well because that's commercial. Well, we I think we could say that that's a hazard if it's blocking the actual roadway. That's a that's a I'm just generally concerned because that could you know I mean the likelihood of that happening, but it did happen to me at Foxfire and it took me two days to get to be and it was parked in the middle of my street. That's that could be considered a hazard. Okay. An actual safety issue. Feel better. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Thank you.

Hi guys, I'm Dana Brown. I live at 2314 Veraway and Longs. This is a very complicated issue. I did not until I listened to all this and I agree with most of you. Private property we shouldn't be involved in. However, when I listen to this gentleman, if I've got a guy that pulls up and parks in front of my front door on my yard and he's drunk, I don't want to be the one to call the tow truck because he's going to come out, you know, doing who knows what. So, I would be calling the police. Um, and and as far as all the commercial stuff, not all tow operators, I think, are using common sense possibly. You know, some of them were charging draw fees, some of them weren't. Um, and maybe there could be some kind of a graduated fine since they're all running these VINs or license plates. You know, maybe the fine or the drop fee the first time is 40, maybe the second time it's 100, and the third time it's, you know, 300. I don't know. Something to consider. But I like the city manager's idea of having some type of audit because that kind of keeps the tow truck drivers, I think, in check as far as being too aggressive. Um, I don't know. It sounded like sometimes maybe some of these guys are just laying and wait for a car to pull up and they can Oh, goody. We got one. I think about the doctor. We're a tourism county. You know, we don't want to be towing all these, you know, brand new people that don't know, you know, that they're not supposed to park there. So, um, again, I would look at maybe some graduated fines. Um, the square, operating the square, there's a fee usually involved with taking credit cards. So, that's just something to consider if we're going to force businesses to do that. that's just going to cost them more money. So, it's it's complicated, but I like his idea. So,

thank you. Thank you. Okay, we'll take one more comment.

Good afternoon. Less Woods, 1625 South Ocean Boulevard. Um, I agree with Miss McHenry that uh if it's my property and there's people parking on it, I should have the right to just call a tow company and get it out of there. I don't think we need the police. I would much rather have those 187 calls uh time available to deal with much more important issues. And 99% of the time, the land owner should be able to have things that are parked on their property removed uh as long as they have proper signage. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um well, that will conclude our workshop. I need a motion to adjourn.

Hold on. Second. Is there a second? Oh, I'm sorry. What? Oh, sorry, Hank.

That's okay. I think it's probably one of our better workshops in quite some time and there's a lot of things that have come out today. Uh some of them that and I agree. I think Mr. Goss and Mr. Pate brought up some very good points. I heard both of them say I think I heard both of them say that if they're not connected they would let the people just walk. And I think that's awful generous because you still had to get there. I also agree that for $40, I mean, if I call a plumber or electrician to my house, I'm probably gonna pay $125 just to get there. And these and that's guy with a $50,000 truck versus a uh I don't know what those things cost, $250,000. So, I think that the uh the towing fee or the the drop fee should be more. You know, what that magic number is, I don't know, half $125 uh would would be something. I do think that the credit card issue u I think it's important that you do that we require they have credit cards. The reason for that is if I walked up there nowadays I don't know that I'm going to have $100 or even $40 in my pocket because I just about live off of a credit card. So I know it's so but you can add that fee in uh on the cost of the of the card. So, but I I would like to see that as a change. The residential towing that I feel like that needs to be changed. Somebody parks in my yard, I don't want to have to fool with the police. I want to be able to call the tow guy, tell them couldn't get this car out of my yard and uh not entangle me up with and and convolute the situation. So, I'd like to see that explored. I may no may council may not feel that way. Seemed like to me there was something else.

I think that was it. That was uh the signs. I like the big signs. I know it costs more money. Uh but you can't almost advertise. If it was eight 4x4, I'm not sure they would still get the message. People just want to try to slip in there. But uh I like Richard. I like your Mr. P your 24 by 24s even though it cost you more money. And that's my I think that's that's a kind of a summation of what we've we've done here today. So I would like I just say one more thing.

Okay. addition of the credit card. They get back home, they cancel.

Yeah. What you need to do is there Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank y'all. And I I will agree with that because at our office we have that same issue. If we don't get a copy of the of the driver's license and all that stuff, give them all kind of receipts and copies and stuff like that, then it can be disputed. But but we're talking about in our case getting shammed if we don't do that by thousands and thousands of dollars. We'll look into that.

So you so moved. Is anybody else got anything before during the meeting this time? Anybody want to make a comment? No. Is any questions by staff or anybody got Okay, I need a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Is there a second? Second. All in favor say I. I.