Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the December meeting of the um North Myrtle Beach Board of Zoning Appeals. I am acting as assistant uh chairman or this today, so bear with me. Um there's five of us here. So we have a quorum. And in order for your motion to pass, you have to have um three people vote in your favor to get your variance passed. So we're going to start out with a roll call, please. Clerk, would you like to call the role? Uh Chairman McGonagal, Andy Thomas here, Mendelbell, here. Joe Reeves, Cynthia Lover here, Wyman Wise

here, Melissa Wber here. We have a quorum. Okay, first item on the agenda would be to uh approve or disapprove the minutes. So, could everybody please review the minutes and let me know if I have a vote to a motion to approve them? Motion to approve. Second. All in favor? I I I'm going to abstain because I was not here last time. And the next item on our agenda would be communications. Is there anything that um you need to tell us, Mr. Caldwell? No, ma'am.

All right. And we would like to swear in everybody who's going to speak, if you have an item on the today's agenda, would you please uh stand and be sworn in? The first item on the agenda is um David Cook, but I'm going to skip real quick because I know the second item on the agenda that they're requesting a continuence and we'll just um get that over with and then we can go back to the first item. So, uh Mr. Roy, are you here to ask for a continuence? Yes, your uh my client had asked me to have put this before the full board and would rather go forward with seven than five.

Okay. Okay. So, we will um is would anybody like to make a motion to continue this to the next meeting? I will make a motion we postpone BCA2-40 to our next meeting. Second. Do I have a second? Second. All All um in favor? I I All opposed. The eyes have it. Continuence is granted.

All right. Now, uh the first item on the ex agenda is BZA-25-39. It's an application by David Cook for a determination of a penalty for the improper removal of a 40 and a half inch tree at 510th Avenue South. Are you here? Anybody here? Mr. Cook? Yes, we came and uh got a permit to remove actually four trees. That was one of the four and the permit had ran out and it was just my fault. I didn't realize it even had an expiration date on a permit to cut a tree.

U so basically that's we just made a mistake and cut it after our permit had ran out. Okay. Okay. How long do permits last? I'm just curious. Oh, I mean it it was it was uh we got the permit. We got the permit like in uh 22 21 or something. Okay. So, y'all had a permit to cut the tree down. Yeah.

Permit to cut four. Actually, the wind blew one over. And the reason we wanted to hurry and cut this, we had some limb damage on the back of our house. It cost, you know, around $1,200 to have it fixed. And I was just afraid the big tree was going to end up falling on our house. But we're going to actually level our backyard and plant some palm trees. But

I I don't know how that works. It you know, so they give us permission to cut them before, but of course it was it was my fault the permit had ran out. The guy from the city came over and they were real nice and I said, "I've got a permit." And I actually went and got it. He said, "No, you should have had that renewed." He said, "It's it's ran out." So, I'm just confused about if it's a 40inch tree, how did did they come in front of the zoning appeals board to get that permit? Uh, no, ma'am. And I have a note from Elton who did the inspection back in 2021. It he says that of the four trees to be removed, only one measured at or over 16 in. The others were less than that. So, you may have to include that one.

The tree came out and one went this way and one went that way. My point is you shouldn't have been issued a permit to cut that tree without coming in front of the zoning appeals board because it was too large. It's over the 24 in limit. Wasn't that before because I spoke to Elton about this yesterday at lunch. I was going off of the application that they had submitted where they stated that they had already gotten approval to remove that one. But now I see in Elton's comments he was saying only one of the four trees he measured was 16 in and the other ones were smaller. So he may not and I'm not questioning you. I'm just we had to put ribbons on it and he actually we were there when he came out to look at them. So he

they his comment was is that at the time prior to the ordinance changing you had a remediation program in place not for trees over 24 24 inch trees. That's what I was saying what Ellen said yesterday. So yeah but I'm just saying so it was over. So they shouldn't have had the permit for the not for a 40inch tree. No, they should have had to come in front of us to get approval to remove it. It should never been issued. Well, they had one. What's that? They had one though. They had a permit for 16inch tree and three smaller ones. Okay. We don't we don't have it. We didn't have we don't have that size trees in our backyard. The only trees the rest of it our our property borders the the dunes.

So, we had the one tree. It's right in the middle of the backyard. It's right in the It was right in the middle. And uh and there's two pine trees out next to the road. Actually, the fourth tree, the wind blew it over. So, it's it's been gone for a year and a half now. But you don't need a permit for a pine, right? No. Yeah. Well, that was one of the four that ribbons around that we were going to take out, but you know, it it just kind What is that permit? Does it say take out? What does it say? Ah, they can look it up. Oh, they got it. I think they've got it. We've got a copy of it right here. I have to look the the comments. Okay. Take that.

At 16 inches. It doesn't say anything about it over 40. I don't understand. Oh, yeah. I'd like to see that. I I wasn't understanding what you're saying. So, you're thinking he never even measured that 40inch tree. I don't believe so. Cuz you surely he would have said this tree. We have the calipers. It's pretty easy to tell how many inches it is. Yeah. What it says here, a double trunk tree. Yeah. It come up. One trunk went this way

and one trunk went that way. It's probably why he didn't There's no He There's no way to measure it now because we kind of went down around it and cut it at the main. So, where it come out, it come out this way. One came out two trunks. So, it probably didn't measure 40 in when he measured the tree. what it was. Maybe it slimmed up quickly, so 3T above the ground where we're measuring now on the ground because the tree was cut. Yeah. Yeah. And what type of tree was it? I'm not 100% sure. I don't It was like an oak picture.

I mean, the permit is pretty pretty vague. I mean, it just says remove trees. So that tree was marked. Yes. Yeah. We had to mark it for him. We we marked them with ribbon so he could come out and look at the four trees. So if it was a double trunk tree bin, you would have measured it from a like technically if it was still standing where would you have measured it at? The two largest trunks is how we as how we measure multiple trunk trees. So we would measure both of these. So you would have so they not a total it wouldn't have been a total of 40 then necessarily. I mean right now with it being 40 and a half it could have been 20.

It's 40 and a half where we're measuring about a foot off the ground, right? So it would have been slightly less but I don't know how much. I gotcha. Yeah. The ordinance says how you measure a double. It has the rules for measuring a double trunk tree in it. I don't have it. We have to measure it at a certain height, right? You got Yeah. You got to measure three feet. So if that tree split before the three foot point. Yeah. It split. Yeah. Split before the three foot. That's all I'm saying is Yeah. I'm not trying to make an excuse. I just I'm just trying to figure out of the four trees that you applied for, that was one of them. Yes, ma'am. That account did that count as two trees or was that We counted it as one. We counted as one. We didn't know how to count it. It should have been counted as lit. We didn't know. Okay. But

cuz normally you shouldn't have got a permit at all to cut that tree. you should have came in front of us once before and then we would have determined if there was a hardship and set a either granted you the variance and required you to pay into the tree bunk bank and set a replacement schedule or we would have denied the variance and you wouldn't have been allowed to cut it down at all. I guess but the question is though is if you measured it at three foot and it split before the three feet like so if say it split before the three feet it grew out before that right? You have I'm not sure what you That's what he said. He said, he said, "You have to measure it three feet from the ground." Okay?

So, if those trunks split, like if it grew out and split before the three feet, they would have measured each trunk independently. It wouldn't have been measured as one unit. Well, if that was true, then they would need they would need a we wouldn't be setting a penalty for it. Well, the problem is when they measure it, when they cut it down, they measured it. They're not measuring it at the 3-ft mark anymore. They're measuring it at the base of the trunk. Yeah. is what? So they have to me they don't have a three-foot mark to go off of. Right. Is that's all I'm saying is like you know I mean it's I mean we don't have that many. We don't have You have a picture of the old tree? I may have one on my phone. Maybe. Uh you might you see if you can find it. Maybe I might be able to find one. If you find one that'd be great.

Yeah. So we can see it because we just like to see kind of where that three foot mark would be. That's what they measure it. While she's looking for the photo, um would you like to hear from the city? Sure. Uh the board is tasked with uh determining the replacement value for the improper removal of a 40.5 in tree at 510th Avenue South.

The ordinance requires that when a tree over 24 in is removed without the approval of the board of zoning appeals that the property owner shall apply to the board for the board to determine the replacement required to mitigate the loss of the protected tree. Staff recommends that the board review the situation, hear the evidence presented at the meeting, and set what the board determines to be a suitable replacement. Mr. Cook, the uh the picture you submitted uh here, that's that's the tree that you're talking about that had two separate I mean, is that one tree right there? That's the tree you cut. That's the one we cut. Yeah, it's actually two. It goes out two different ways.

Yeah. So, that would have been measured as two independent trunks. No way he could really get an accurate measure because well I guess they tree was cut down. He couldn't get to three. So it it have been measured each trunk would have been measured in 20 and 20. Is that what we're saying? Would you agree that that would have been measured independent? Technically it should have been measured independent at three foot. Huh. It should have been measured at three foot. So it would have been split and they wouldn't have been together. Um we usually if they're if they're right up to each other we usually count it as one tree. Yeah. I'm just saying. But it still doesn't fall under the 40. Would it fall under the 40in total caliber? It probably would at three foot just naturally how trees Yeah. But if you look at this picture, it's it's coming out of the ground split. Mhm.

So at 3 ft they wouldn't they would have been the trunks would have been separated. Well, you would usually measure both trunks and then on a tree that comes out of the ground like that. Yes. But you So you combine it Yes. into a total caliber. That's why we have 40.5. They look about the same. So we probably measure about 20 and a quarter for each one. So it doesn't matter that they're not connected. Mm-m. That's how we've always done it. Okay. I thought you measured each trunk independently at the 3. It had to the total caliber was based on the the 40 ines at 3 ft. Mhm. Okay. Not either. So, are we under one thing? If I cut another tree, I'm going to hire a lawyer.

I've ran a business since I've been 18 years old. I've never been in trouble in my life. Yes. Okay. So, for discussion purposes here, are we all in consensus that it's a 40inch tree we're deciding a penalty on? Yes. If that's how the city's saying that's how they measure it, that's how you see it, right, Ben? Yes. It is. It doesn't matter that it has two separate trunks coming out of the ground. If they're if they're, you know, a few inches apart, we would count them as separate trees. But I think right at ground level there, you can see that they kind of come together. Oh, I have a picture. It's it they separate. You can if I can just I know I've got a picture somewhere. Well, I mean you can see they separate from that picture.

Like if you stood beside this, how tall is it? How tall are these stumps? And that's also sort of I mean they might be foot and a half off the ground or something. Okay. So that would I already know where they cut it off at. Okay. There's a picture could be deceptive about how far it is where they split. I mean, normally you see trunks, trees come out and then the trunk split, right? But you got you literally have two trunks coming out of the ground there. It looks like they're joined together at the bottom. What the base? Yeah, but the the city did what the city did. So, I mean, that's that's the bottom line. So, if they set it at 40 in, then that's what we're determining.

Well, we've been cleaning up Hurricane Helen. I've got 1,500 tree pictures in here. It's probably better than going through 4,000 pictures, you know. So, anything further from the city? No, ma'am. Any questions for the city? Everything you

I said they've already got the picture. I'm thinking if you all you just said you had 1500 trees you're cleaning up from Helen. We we've picked up way more than that. We've been at cleaning hurricane Helen up for over a year. So So I would say you where you're from I'm guessing you have lots of trees and maybe they're just trees to West Virginia, Eastern Kentucky. So, and we're not we've never had this process down here. Here at the beach, we don't have a lot of trees. So, we they're not they're a lot more special down here than they are up where you have thousands.

Yeah. And then, Mr. Cowwell, this was a couple that came down last month that didn't know the meeting wasn't advertised and had to turn around and drive all the way back home for a meeting that didn't exist. That's right. Okay. I wasn't here for that one, but okay. Just want to make sure. Yeah. Is there any discussion? Anybody want to I mean I don't feel have any thoughts on this? I don't think you operated with malicious intent. No, I don't see that at all. Um but still you still have to set a penalty and a replanting schedule. Did I read somewhere where you a palm tree is not a right?

A palm tree only counts uh 25% towards interest. For instance, for you to say he had to replace replant 40 inches of trees that he'd have to and he wanted palm trees, it have to be 160 inches of palm trees. Um, so you can make a I'm as the chair, vice chairman here today, I'm not supposed to be making motions. So, it's up to you all to set a schedule. It could be a combination of hardwoods and palm trees and money. Robert's rule says you can make a motion, but I'm always told I'm not supposed to.

You can. You sure can. So, it could be a combination of palm trees, hardwood trees and money or just money or just trees. So, whoever makes the proposal um can make that, you know, put that on. I know you want to put palms back, but do you guys have any opposition to putting some protected species back on the property as well? Like towards the back corner or anything like that, like another hardwood? we need to do.

My problem is is I'm going to level, you know, my backyard goes and the sand is washing down taking what backyard we have. So, we have to take it all out and get a retaining wall put in and we do that kind of work oursel. But my problem is getting enough guys freed up to get here to do it. We're so busy. But, uh, but if there's some kind of schedule you set, we just have to meet that schedule. No, I mean, yeah, we can put a timeline. We can extend the timeline. I think right we're okay with that. Um but when we say schedule like so say we would like you to replace 20 inches of the 40 that you took down. We could include some of them in the pond but we'd like to see a couple hardwoods replaced back too.

I I I was thinking somewhere around 16 cuz that's 40us 24 is 16 inches. So I was thinking he put that 16 inches in hardwood. They basically come out of the ground as two separate trees. Yeah, they do. They look Can you go show Mr. Can you go show Mr. Caldwell that? Who's Caldwell?

Mr. Cwell. That gentleman right there. Just want to stay in one place. here. Oh, okay.

Mhm. I don't think that I think they were two trees that were close together. I don't have grew up. Can you show them just grew up? Can you show them as a lover right there? Also, Ben, is there a way for us to find out what the expiration date is on permits for? It's a year from issuance. It is a year. Okay. Is it stated on the permit? It is. Okay. We just got, like I said, we're not familiar with the It's moving. I'm moving process. We got the permit. I got a glimpse at the bottom of the closet. That's what when they came by the house, we were like, "Oh, yeah. We've got a permit." Just take a second to move.

Oh, okay. I didn't video. I wouldn't cut it, but it's definitely going to end up order.

Is anybody prepared to make a motion? I don't mind making a motion. Um, we don't have our cheat sheet tonight. No cheat sheet. No cheat sheet. That's all right. Um Oh, man. said 16 inches. Woman, that's what I was saying. I just took the 40 and a half and it said 40 in and it's anything over 24, right? So, I just subtracted that and got 16. You're dealing with two trunks. I think that's fair. Huh? I think that's fair dealing with the two trunk issue. As long as Ms. Lubber is okay with that suggestion as well. I I just want him to be replant I want him to replant hardwoods, whatever palms he wants to replant. That's his own. Yeah. Yeah. I was saying I was saying 16 inches of Yeah. hardwoods

of like a oak tree or you know two oak trees that eat and how he wants to do it. Yeah. You see the happy little squirrel on there. I want that squirrel to be happy again. Yeah. Take a while but how these guys how these guys just being nosy. It's none of my business but around the you know around where our house is they're building a lot of new stuff. How do they get permission to go in there and cut 15 20? Do they have to pay you for each tree they cut? That's That's Mr. Caldwell. I have my own problems with that. Trees over 24 in are protected. Trees that aren't pine trees. So, anything less than that, they're exempted if they're in the footprint of a proposed house or swimming pool. Yeah. Okay. Um,

so I should have drove my plans up. That's where we're going to end up put. We're going to eventually put a swimming pool. If you would have waited, applied for the house permit, anything in the footprint that's less than 24 would have been exempted. Okay. All right. Then if you'd say, "Well, I'm going to put a pool there." Then you still would have had to get a variance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but we we have to come we have to come back before you to get permission to put a pool in or we just have to get a permit. What about removing? No, I'm just saying if that tree was still there and you wanted a pool, you still would have had to come to

How about removing the sand? That's a whole different I have to get a permit from from you. Okay. cuz I know there's a lady there that she walked all over my property and was telling me I wasn't on my property and so I know when as soon as I do anything it's going to be a problem. So I want to make sure everything's right and you have to have a survey for every well everything you build now. Yeah. You've got to get come if you're going to build something you've got to come in with a survey. So if somebody's telling you there's a question about your property line that's your best thing is to have we've got our maps and stuff. the when the people from the city, they showed us our property line. We actually own two feet back more than we thought we owe.

But just so you know, for the new process, you'll have to have your lot reserveyed. That's the new process. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, but so Mrs. Lover, I we don't we're not really offering a variance here. We're kind of setting a penalty. So I for the var for the BZA agenda item 25-39, I make a motion that we assess the applicant with a penalty of 16 in of replacement trees that have to be protected species hardwoods to be replaced on the property. Second. All in favor? I I All opposed. Guys have it. So you have been your penalty for cutting that tree down is that you have to replant 16 inches of hardwood somewhere on your property.

Okay. Okay. And they would be like oaks, maples. Mhm. Hickories. Uh there's a list of them Ben can provide you with. I'll send you a letter with all this. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Have a good night. Anything else on the agenda? No. And I have a motion to adjurnn. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor?