Zoning & Building Standards Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Let's start with a roll call.

Mr. Zellinger?

Here.

Mr. Anzetta? Mr. McGinnis?

Here.

Mr. Lamuel?

Here.

Ms. Puffinger? Here.

Okay, four out of five members of the board are present. So we have a quorum. Just so everybody knows, in order to pass any motion, it takes three to a majority of the board, no matter how many people are here. So we have a quorum. It'll take three to pass any motion. THAT IS MADE. WITH THAT, WE'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT ITEM, MINUTES FOR CONSIDERATION. THE LAST MEETING WAS JULY 22, 2026. WE RECEIVED THOSE IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING TO REVIEW, SO I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.

I MAKE A MOTION WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING.

WE HAVE A SECOND? OKAY. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

MR. LAMUEL?

I'M STAYING. I WASN'T HERE.

Miss Clevenger? Yes. Mr. McGinnis?

Yes.

Mr. Zollinger?

Yes. That motion passes. The next item is the one variance request we have today. For the record, it is application ZBOA-26-12, 243 Sutton Avenue NE. Property owner David Cotten is requesting a variance from the North Canton Codified Ordinance Section 1133.08 subparagraph E, governing fence setbacks and maximum heights on residential corner lots. The ordinance requires a minimum 30-foot setback along secondary front yards and restricts heights within front-facing sight lines. Represented by License Fee Contractor Jay Rennie Enterprises, the applicant requests permission. to establish a 23-foot fence footprint measured from the curb along Randall Circle Northeast, representing a variance of the standard 30-foot requirement, terminating one foot past the existing stop sign at the corner of Sutton Avenue Northeast and Randall Circle Northeast. Within that footprint, the applicant requests to construct and maintain a professional six-foot tall white vinyl privacy fence. So everybody knows how this usually works. This is an adjudicatory hearing. It is not like city council. We don't have a situation where we have public speaks just on any topic. We are here to decide this issue, the board. We are all residents of the city of North Canton. We are volunteers. We are not employed by the city. Our decision is independent. We each have our own you know, make our own independent judgment here. What I'm going to do, how this works is the applicant or whoever represents the applicant will get up and speak in favor of the variance request, and then I'll let anyone else get up and speak who wants to speak in favor of. The city will have an opportunity to weigh in if they have something to say about the request, and then people who have opposed can also get up and speak. When you get up and speak, make sure you give your name and your address because we're being recorded here. So everything we say could be taken down and put in writing. So it's important that you speak clearly. It's important we don't speak over one another. You'll get every opportunity to talk. You might get questions from the board, especially me. It's how I like to get information. I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm an attorney. This is how I was trained to get information. So just don't be offended by any questions I have. I'm not trying to be a pain. But it's important that you wait for me to finish my question before you respond and make sure your responses are verbal. Yes, no, I don't know, or whatever your response is. Avoid shaking your head, nodding, uh-huh, uh-huh, things like that. It just makes it easier for us to have a clean record here. So with that, I'm going to let the person, the applicant, or the person representing the applicant get up and speak first.

All right. Hello, everyone. I'm David Cotton.

I live on 243 Sutton Avenue. My wife and I, we moved in about 13 years ago.

So we've been there for basically our entire childhoods, growing up and everything. And we've actually, this is the first time that I've ever had to experience this because i grew up in kind of kind of the country world of where uh townships and i grew up in navarre so this is very exciting for me very interesting to see how how things go um ultimately um i'm sure if anybody's walked by um has seen the fence we are trying to maintain the fence but on uh my wife's direction, she really wants to replace the fence. And I don't know if anybody knows that, but whenever the wife tells you to do something, you should probably figure out a way to make it happen. So existing fence, we have been, I don't really know the measurements, but the original plan was just to tear down and replace the existing fence where we weren't trying to put any higher fence, make it wider, make it, you know, any different other than just replacing it with a really nice, nice vinyl fence. So yeah, it's been about two years that we've been saving up for this and yeah, luckily we went through the whole process before we, we committed to some material buying and all of that. We really wanted to make sure we did it the right way. So I appreciate you all coming out and I, Actually, I see some familiar faces, but I don't see all. And yeah, like I said, living there for quite a while. And we're trying to find the best compromise between what it was. Because whenever my house was built, and I think it was 1950, whenever that house was built, the cul-de-sac behind the house was vacant land. So that fence has been been up since before there was ever a single home in that, in that, in that area, which is why I assume the road and the sidewalk is so close to my existing fence. Um, so yeah, unfortunately that was before my time and, and I was born in 1986. So that was before I was even a thought in my parents' mind. So, uh, With that being said, I want to make everybody happy. I would like to have my backyard not be cut 80% for my dogs and my son. He likes to be outside and we need to make sure he's protected because he does have special needs. I'm not trying to use that as anything, but that is one of the reasons why maintaining and making sure that that fence is is safe for both the dogs and my son. So with that being said, I feel that the variance is fair. I feel that we're trying to do the right thing and hopefully I can get a new fence in because that's the ultimate goal.

Well, let me ask you this. So the fence now, and I've driven, I've been by your, I run by your yard every week. No, actually you have a really nice yard. I like your yard a lot. It's really nice. It's pretty in that area. But I do know what you mean about the Randall Circle being a newer road. You can tell it's newer. The existing fence you have now, it comes up against Howard Street pretty closer than 20 feet, 23 feet right now, right? Or is it? back to 23 feet at this time.

Yeah. Can we have that explained? I'm looking at it too. And I just want to kind of in reference, understand what's kind of going on. Okay.

Well, why don't you go ahead and describe?

You know what? I might let, this is, this is Justin. He's a friend of mine that started a fencing company years back and a local guy from, you know, I grew up in Navarre area and he came out and he's really been helpful with stuff. with all of the details.

Okay, yeah, why don't we have him or somebody describe what's happening? I just can't see the top. Okay, hold on. Everybody, one at a time. Go ahead and tell me your name and your address.

I'm Justin Rini. I own a defense company, J. Rini Enterprise. I've been on my own for five years. So I try to do it by the book. But so here's what's going on right now. So... Right now, there's a stop sign right here, okay?

The original fence... And what he's pointing at at the top, he's pointing at Randall Circle, okay, on top of the page. And then on the right is Howard Street, the border with Howard Street. So he's saying there's a stop sign at Randall Circle and Howard, right? Yes. Okay, go ahead.

No, it's not Randall Circle. Yeah, Randall Circle. So... Basically what's going on is right now. Currently this fence line right here is right here. So it's out past the stop sign. Okay. So our thoughts on this was, is, and again, this was all to try to keep the original footprint of the fence. Um, because following every single, um, ordinance and everything would literally chop his backyard from what it is currently to a 10 by 20.

If they followed the ordinance, it would be flushed with the end of that big house.

It would have to come back 50 foot this way and 30 foot this way to comply with everything completely. So here's what we're asking to do. He has a line of trees that are along here, and we're asking to basically put that fence line where it is currently along the sidewalk. That way the trees are inside, easier for him to maintain, you know what I mean, also. And then on this line right here, our thoughts were to just move it back. It works out to where it's a foot back, maybe 13 inches back past the stop sign. That way if you pull up, there's nothing obstructing your view at all. And that's what we're asking for.

Can I add to what Justin's been saying? Yeah. Last night, I met with Doug to talk about... Doug is right here. I met with Doug to talk about property lines, and Doug's property is a very unique plot of land where it juts out to where... What would you say, Doug, about two feet? Yeah. Along, like, directly right in front. Like, we're the fence line right now.

Okay, Doug, Doug, what's your full name?

Yeah, sorry. What's that?

What's your full name?

Oh, Douglas House. Okay. Under the 208 Randall Circle.

Okay, so you're on the other side of Randall Circle from us?

No, he's on the end. Further down.

Okay.

The first house as it starts into the circle.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, so I... having that meeting with Doug, I would be acceptable to move that line of the fence actually within whatever the property line of Doug's property is.

It's very unique.

If you pull up the GIS map, it's not a clean run of property lines. It's almost like a narrow arrow that goes all the way up behind My neighbor's house and behind.

I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. The line you're talking about moving is the line on the southern end of your lot?

On the Randall Circle lot. I am willing to do both Randall Circle a little bit to get off of Doug's property and then also bring in the Howard Street fence to give a better line of sight for that area. That stop sign.

Okay, so... Oh, it's way down there.

Yeah, we're not here to negotiate a settlement. You made a request for a variance of 23 feet. Okay, so I'm not here to... I'm not mediating anything for you. We're here to decide something. So yes or no, and maybe with conditions.

Yeah, this is perfect.

You know, if you're not... I want you to be clear on what you want us to do.

Originally, I would have preferred to have just the one side moved in, but again, I want to be a good neighbor as well.

My main concern, your lot is very unique. I like your yard. It's a pretty house, pretty yard. It is a unique situation that was thrust on your property when they developed Randall Circle. You're on a peninsula, basically. And it's that kind of unique situation that could warrant a variance. What usually overrides unique situations like this for me is safety and whether people can see around when they're turning off Randall Circle onto Howard. I want to make sure they can see people coming from the east, you know, with your fence line. And usually there are guidelines. ODOT has guidelines on that. There's traffic engineering studies on that. So I think whatever, that's going to override whatever you're requesting. And obviously, I'm sure that's what the concern of a lot of people are. But anyway, do you have anything else you want to add?

I do. Yeah. So... Where we come up with where to try to move that line on Howard, it does comply with the 30-foot vision triangle. So basically, that's where we come up with the request. Fix the thing that we thought was a safety hazard. It's not a safety hazard that it's only six inches, eight inches off the sidewalk on that back line. It just happens to be close. So our thoughts were was, move the line that's causing an issue to still allow him to have as close to the original footprint because that, can I have that other picture back that makes sense? So this originally was 18 foot. So we're already coming back in 12 foot from what the original footprint is. So, like I said, we just, and again, it's, it is supposed to only be four foot, but the size of his dogs and everything, the four foot kind of eliminates, you know, he has six foot there currently. So that's really all we're trying to achieve is as close to the original footprint as there was, because again, When the original fence was put up, none of these things were in place. And there was no original permit, nothing like we're starting from scratch. So that's why when I originally applied for the permit, I figured, well, we'll just shoot for exactly where it's at, knowing that I was seeing some issues. And honestly, that stop sign is... It's pretty far back to begin with. It's not even, I don't know, it's at least 15 feet off the road. So you're pretty far back to begin with. We're willing to work with whatever the council decides, whatever.

Obviously, ultimately, we want everyone to be safe as well.

It's a safety issue, but just so you know, the reason, it doesn't matter what was in or not in place legally when that was erected. It's what's in place now. Because you're asking to replace the fence. If you were to just repair your fence and keep it, you don't need us for that. Just so you know. But anyway...

Yeah, okay. That's a really good view.

We're talking being a foot on this side so that you can clearly see the stop sign and you can see what's past it.

And then also, I hate to touch, this is great that this picture is up, but Doug made a comment whenever we were talking about a diagonal edge cut out of that that fence i haven't talked to you yet justin about this but a diagonal edge potentially being a solution to where the site you know you can see better and not lose as much of your yard so that was another another thing that that came up and we can definitely talk about that later if that's an option but ultimately we're just trying to keep it as close to the original footprint as possible, like Justin said. So I don't know if diagonal from post to post would open up the site view on that. Potentially, that could be a solution to have it be a win-win. I always try to look for win-wins, right? You know, where everybody is happy. So that's just some thoughts.

Anybody else have any questions? Mr. Cotton? Mr. Rooney? Anything else?

No.

Okay. You'll get another chance to talk and probably answer more questions. Yeah, that's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Does the city have anything they want to share at this point?

So, three ordinances that the fence does not comply with. One, a long hower is considered a side yard. It needs to be maintained as a front yard because of the way the plot is set up. So therefore, along the fence line, or along the house line, like you were saying, from there back could be six foot. Past that is considered the front yard, and it could be more than 48 inches, 24 if it's solid. The second is a vision triangle, which has already been addressed. The third is a double frontage lot, so therefore it would have to have a 50-foot setback from the lot as shown in section 1133.08 E5B. So because of the uniqueness of this lot and the way the fence is, there's multiple issues.

So it's the fence height. it's the 30-foot setback. Provision triangle, correct.

And what was the third one? It's because it's a double frontage lot. It has to have so much of a setback from the second street.

And how much is that setback supposed to be?

50 foot.

Yeah.

Okay. One thing, Chairman, if I may clarify, on the property line, Typically, it's not a hard and fast rule, but typically the property line is 9'6 back at curb. So any of those dimensions that Mr. Rick has just cited would be from that 9'6 behind the curb. So we're, you know, add 9'6 if you're going to measure to that point. Plus the 30 plus the 15. Exactly. Okay.

Okay. What about like traffic studies or ODOT guidelines?

Is there anything on that? So the vision triangle that's in the ordinance in 11-3308 is based on, that's a general rule. We will run each of the scenarios that we have any concerns on the vision triangle by the city engineer who ultimately makes the determination on. whether it complies and whether it's safe, and he uses the ODOT standards for that. And one of the big deciding factors on that is the speed limit on the roads for the particular intersection. And Ben did run this application by the city engineer. Ben, if you would share that.

So the city engineer took a look at where it is now, and he was completely against where it is now. because of how the fence exceeds the stop sign.

You mean what's being proposed now? Correct.

Well, what is currently there now.

What exists now.

Correct. Yeah. His biggest concern was because of where the stop sign is and the fence exceeds it. According to the engineer, your front bumper needs to be in line with the stop sign. Where it is now, there's no way to possibly see. how you're stopping. He said that you have to be almost in an hour. Your front of your car would be in an hour before you could actually see.

You can see that in that picture.

But what about what's being proposed to be built? What does he have anything to say about that? He didn't specify on that, sir. He what? He didn't specify on that. Okay.

Did you talk to Triangle with him?

Yeah. Okay. But would the city engineer have to approve whatever's built here or only in regards to the site triangle okay yeah okay all right anybody else have any questions well just what's being proposed for the stop sign what's being proposed would that be acceptable i guess we don't know that we don't yeah we don't we don't know what the city engineer has to say about the site

so what's proposed is within the 30 foot site distance triangle so that's where the property owner where'd he go oh there he is mr cotton had referenced you know putting an angle on the fence that could potentially get that out of that site triangle so so so long as we're out of that site triangle the city engineer wouldn't have any objection to that so if Jumping ahead here, if an approval of some sort is what the board seeks, you could possibly place a caveat on whatever comments that you would place on it. Have another one that to be approved, city engineer to approve the site distance triangle or configure fence outside the site triangle. That would give staff the latitude to say, all right, We kind of have these parameters on what is approved, but we may further have to trim that back based on that site triangle as determined by the city engineer.

Okay, and whether we do that, what they're proposing is you'd be able to see how we're better because they're farther back. Am I understanding that right? Because that was my first question, and I don't know if I got a good answer, but the proposal, the fence would be behind the stop sign. Yeah, so where's that pointer at?

Justin, could you help with this here? Yeah. So if I'm understanding you correctly, this line here is going 12 feet that way, so you're going to be back here going that way, right?

Yeah, it actually... So yeah, it's a whole foot at least. It might even be a few inches more back past this fence. So it'd be... Right in line with the bottom here.

Okay.

So, like I said, that stop sign, in my opinion, is back way too far anyway. If I'm not mistaken, there's another... Well, look at that. Look at how close that one is to the corner. You know what I mean? A standard stop sign is, let's say, five foot from the edge of the street. That one's more than ten.

And I guess that was my question earlier. Why is a stop sign where it's at?

That's the thing right off the bat. That stop sign should probably actually be right here instead of where it's at. I'm going to say, I mean, I'm not in the back way too far to begin with. So all we're trying to do, like I said, is make it to where you're not obstructed at all. You know what I mean? Not at all. I actually think that it does moving it back there i'm almost positive that it don't conflict with that vision triangle at all even without putting a 45 on the end yeah it's it it clears that okay well yeah i think okay well i think um well we'll just keep talking we'll let people talk in a moment we have a gentleman here who has information on hard stuff oh yeah dug out um

The reason that stop sign is so far back is if you moved it up where they're talking about moving it to, you're close to that sidewalk as it is.

Oh, the sidewalk on this side of Randall Circle.

Right. It's back away because it's got the handicap thing right there.

Yeah. Well, yeah, the city will have to make a determination on that.

Yeah, that's what this is about. You guys are making the decision. It's just everybody's input to help with this. I don't think anybody's against him putting the fence in. Well, yeah, we'll get to you guys. We're coming.

Anybody have any other questions before we move on? Okay.

Can I say one more thing?

Yeah, real quick. Yeah.

As far as that other side, with it being on that property line, honestly, we were not aware that it was actually over that line or we would have addressed that also. Yeah.

Okay.

Wasn't trying to get around it. We just did not know.

All right. I'd like to have a letter that people speak. So anybody else speak in favor of the application? Go ahead. In favor? Yeah. So Paul Provella.

I live 200 Randall Circle.

Okay.

So I'm actually a developer from California, and I live and turn on that street every single day. And I'm going to tell you a couple things. One, that's why I wanted to see that map, because the way that you guys have the map is you can't see it. It's all up here that we're talking about. And that picture represents it better. The curvature of the curb is why that stop sign is so far back. You can't move it up because you're not going to see it because of where that fence is. As a developer, I see this all the time. That property is super unique. So there's not a lot of options to make it perfect. However, being that my wife's a terrible driver and I do want her to have a better view when she's driving down the street, what they're proposing is the best option for that. Because when they take that back, it's going to give the views. You're not going to stop at the stop sign. We stop up because once again, that unique curvature of that curb, you can see it right there. It's different than a lot of other ones. So if they move it back, it's kind of like the perfect scenario, and that's the way I was looking at it. It gives him his yard, which he deserves, and it gives us that line of sight to where you can turn comfortably without worrying about a car coming up or down, like I said, to where you're impeded. So once again, we were walking it yesterday, and like I said, because of the uniqueness of it, you're not going to have a lot of scenarios. And what is being proposed with that setback, I feel, is very fair, and it does solve a problem to where, once again, you're going to have to use down that street and eliminate this. I mean, you've got kids riding scooters down there. So you want to be able to see, and I think that's great.

No, I noticed that I drove over there today, and I went through down Randall Circle and back up and turned. right onto Hauer and it was hard to see the other way. And I see it all the time. Like I said, I see it all the time. I'm down in that area a lot. So, okay. Thank you, sir. Anything else? So anybody else want to speak in favor? Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. And just again, you're Doug House.

So I'm Doug House and I live at 208 Randall Circle, Northeast. which is the first house as you go around the circle. I'm the one that has that unique property line that goes all the way down. I have no idea why it is what it is. Dave and I talked last night, and he said he would move that fence on the other side of the trees. If that does happen, that'll open it up even more to move it on the other side of the trees. The variance that he's asking for would be okay. in my vision. There are some other people to speak, but him and I talked, and even if they, as the builder for the fence, if that diagonal piece goes in, if that's something that can be done, and if he moves the fence on the other side of the trees, that may take away the need for that diagonal. But him and I talked, Dave and I talked last night, and You know, we had a good agreement to that. In fact, I don't like the fence over on the property that I have. You know, then it's my fence. Then I don't want that. And now they're going to do the fence. Let's put it where it needs to go. On the other side of the property line, that's all. But other than that, you know, I think that is a viable plan to do once he gets with the

fence guy to move the fence over and everybody will be able to see even more I think with that fence okay okay thank you yeah one question does the application have to be changed when you're talking about that other angle is that not effective his comment about getting the fence off of his property does that require another variance for us I'm doing my own

You could place that condition on the approval that the fence be located, the fence along the circle there be located on the other side of the tree.

Or on Mr. Cotton's property. Yeah. Anybody else? If you're against, people speak if you're against it or you have concerns or questions, those people speak now. So if anybody else would like to get up.

Yes. I think most of our concerns have already been met. But the biggest thing we have is just you have to pull almost out into the intersection to see anyone coming up on the right. So whatever solution comes up, that has to be yesterday I'm coming up going out and the jogger was almost in front of my car that popped out behind us. And then the kids come up and down, walkers and women with their kids in their strollers walk up on this side of the street. So if you look at the physics of it, the line of sights cut way down because of their closeness to the curb. So however you fix it, that needs to be approved.

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Anybody else? Yes. Um, I'm Jeff Vose, 194 Randall Circle. Um, can we go back to the overhead picture of everything and I can show some- The hand, the hand drawing or the- No, that's, this is- Oh, there's a lot, yeah. Can you pull it down just a little bit? And do we have, I won't touch the TV, here we go. Uh, the other way. There you go. Um, so the fence where it is now, everybody agrees, it's, it's bad. We have to pull out into the intersection. to see down if anybody's coming from Sutton Street. I checked tonight and when I'm sitting in my car and the front of the car is at the stop sign, I could see to right here. I could not see the intersection. So it would be better. It would be better than it is now. I don't know if it would be as good as being able, I like to be able to see down a little bit further because people being people. So I would have to pull beyond the stop sign to be able to see the intersection to pull on that, pull on, on out on the Howard. Now, I don't want to say 30 feet because I, that's, I think that's outrageous as well. But what I didn't consider was if, if the fence along Howard were moved into their line, again, that five feet or so, that might take care of the sideline and get us further down here. That would make me feel a lot better. I'm not forward against it. It's just a concern that pulling the fence back will help a lot. But if this fence stays the same, stop the stop sign, pull forward three feet to be able to see on further down. John lives down over here. I don't think any of the police officers are going to stop us, but we're not supposed to do that. So anyway, I don't know if this is for or against, but just saying that if they pull it back, if they leave this fence the same, pull this fence back 12 or 15 feet, I can see to here. I can't see any further down. So again, it's better to... Dave's point, I've almost hit somebody pulling out.

You have to be sure when you're creeping out like that that you look left and there's not somebody like a kid on an e-bike on the sidewalk coming down or shooting down that hill. I understand your concerns, and I think that's why City Engineer and ODOT have standards on this stuff. You've got to have so much...

clearance to see and with a street that's with speed limits 25 miles an hour you got to have so much space so you can see cars coming at a certain speed so um anybody else yes kathy shoemaker 185 randall circle that is one of the problems that there is no on how there is no sidewalk so any children who are out there and i'm a retired teacher so bear with me. I care about that. Anyways, there's no place for the children to do anything with their bikes or whatever except on the road. So if there were a sidewalk there, it would be safer, but that's not going to happen.

Yeah, well, yeah. I hear you there. Anybody else?

Can I chime in again? Mr. Cotton, go ahead. Just to clarify some questions here. so with this lot where it is right now if we were to come in here would it be required to come in here as well if we put a 45 degree cut in in the in the uh the post would you guys be able to answer that right now or do you need to that that's not it but Again, I just want to be clear because the original variance is to leave this alone and bring this in type thing. And as we're starting to brainstorm different solutions to this problem, I'm thinking of how that works.

I'm going to tell you, I think if for me, if I'm going to vote to grant this, it's going to be subject to the city engineer approving anything that's done and being okay with it and being within you know guidelines that ODOT sets or traffic you know the traffic standards so and you guys can work if we grant it then you can work that out with the city later um And that's if we approve it. That's what my feeling is on it. So you can work that out later if we approve it. But that's kind of what I'm thinking. We can't work out the particulars here.

Yeah, because basically what I'm hearing is I want everyone to be safe as well. And I want you guys in the cul-de-sac to be able to see. But I also don't want to lose a lot of my yard because...

where are my kids and where are my dogs gonna gonna go like sweet awesome so let's yeah let's with that stuff yeah so so yeah yes okay so we'll work you gotta keep work that out with the city if we approve it okay so that's gonna work so um does anybody else want to speak in that one anybody else uh yes ma'am what's your backy vitale 193 randall circle um

And when you talk about how far back and so on and so forth, I get lost because I'm not a designer. I don't know. The architect, I don't understand. But I will reiterate that what everybody has said is that that is a dangerous intersection. And I also have hit almost a person that was jogging up that street. It doesn't help that on the other side of the street, which you can't see either, But that's neither here nor there. That's a private issue. But that stop sign, I have to be able to see, and I cannot see. And it's an incline, so it's an incline that comes from the other street where the stop sign is. So even seeing halfway down still doesn't take into account that there's an incline on that street, or a decline, whichever way you're looking at it.

yeah it goes up a hill the road is up going uphill to the west so it's it's on a hill yes anybody else if sir did you want to have something it's just real quick not to poo-poo this other idea but it's not going to work this corner here and

I'm sorry, but it's just not. You've got to move this fence back. The way that it works, if you do that angle that you're talking about that you just threw out there and left it at the same thing, you're still going to have no visibility to that street because of the way it's like, oh, I walked it. I was there before you came out yesterday. I took that into consideration and said, look at the angle of the fence. are we going to have a view or not because of the way that you set back. So I just want to throw that out there before we get too far into it as an option. It's not going to work. You're still going to be obstructed by your view. And the whole purpose of this is, is I want him to have as much yard as he possibly can, but also everybody here being able to see around that corner. The only way is, is the variance that was proposed to take that fence back. And like I said, I looked at it at different angles.

Okay. To clarify, you bring up a good point. One of my concerns with that approach as well is this meeting was noticed in accordance with the ordinance. City Council has told us what we have to do as far as notifying the public on that. It was noticed for the 12 foot. If we reduce that 12 foot, that's increasing the variance rather. We would have to re-notice the meeting. We couldn't We couldn't push that fence back out there anyhow. This would have to come back before the ZBOA. Some of the minor modifications that we're talking about, that's not furthering the variance. So that would not be a conflict of the meeting notifications on there. So we wouldn't be able to do that from this meeting. If maybe you wanted to reapply to ZBOA with some other information, you can do that. But with what we've noticed, we couldn't push that fence closer to where it is now. So I just wanted to clarify that in case.

Yeah. All right. Anybody else? Okay. Anybody else have any questions or anything? Well, I don't know what you guys think. My thinking is, and I want to make sure I get the conditional language correct. My thinking is one. we can approve this variance subject to, one, the fence going on Mr. Cotton's property only, and two, that it be subject to the approval of the city engineer and ODOT guidelines, and that approval be given.

Does that make sense, what I'm saying on that? if we could do something along the lines we could get on the property line where placed outside the site distance triangle as determined by the city engineer that way if it does need to be moved we can move it at the staff level and not come back unless you wanted to review it then no no i think that would be fine yeah okay so okay so we i'll make a motion unless anybody has any thoughts if he does nothing it's less safe

It's less if we do nothing. So why do why are we putting the language in there for the site triangle when site triangle doesn't exist now?

Well, we want this will make it. This could potentially make it even safer than what's being requested. Yeah. Of course we can approve it and you can still do nothing anyway. Which I've seen that's happened. He's not obligated to go do it anyway. I was just thinking of, wait, I want to make sure whatever is done is compliant with the traffic, with the traffic sightline rules. Yeah, well, if we just approve it as written, they don't. Technically, you don't have to do that. We're saying you can bypass any approval. Well, I'll make a motion to do it subject to it being on the property and located outside the site distance triangle and subject to any approval that the city engineer would make. I'll make that motion. I'LL SECOND. AND THEN IF YOU GUYS... I'LL SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY. THEN WE'LL GO AHEAD AND CALL THE ROLL.

MR. MCGINNIS?

YES.

MR. LAMUEL?

YES.

MS. BLEVINGER? YES. MR. ZOLLINGER?

YES. OKAY. THE VARIANCE IS GRANTED SUBJECT TO THOSE CONDITIONS. SO YOU'LL HAVE TO GET WITH THE CITY, WHATEVER YOU DO, YOU MAKE SURE YOU WORK WITH THE CITY AND MAKE SURE IT'S... done and i hope you do it i hope it becomes more safe than it is now and um everybody who lives around there just watch out if you're out driving at four o'clock in the morning watch out for joggers what do you need no harm he has a light he's trying to be safe it's early in the morning when nobody else is out okay uh