Planning & Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Recording in progress. Who are we waiting on?

OK. George, did he leave or he was staying? No, he went to the restroom.

Give me a second.

Heidi's in charge.

She's the one with the law degree here.

All the rest of us just pretend to be lawyers.

Once you learn your place, everything goes smooth. Sometimes I pretend too. We're married now at 57.

Oh, peptides.

Yes, Wi-Fi. You changed it? No.

I've actually been dressing up more lately. There's nothing different. I'm just wearing a tie. And it's been cold out, so there's been a reason to wear a jacket.

Did you take a bath?

I take four showers a day, so I don't, you know... One before the gym, one after the gym, or three. Maybe three or four. Definitely three. Did it work?

Yeah.

I would take a shower in the middle of the day if I could. That'd be easily four. We actually have a shower in our office building.

Well, you may need a fifth. I'm just saying.

Orlando, how you doing?

Good, how you doing?

You want to speak?

Do you have anything you want to say? Hold on. I got to speak to this.

We're just waiting for Heidi to get set.

Good evening.

What's this game? It's

Yeah, the morning's been really bad lately. Really bad.

I noticed it this week. Yeah. Who's in charge of that? Why can't they get out of there quicker? Okay. all right we'll call traffic into order this meeting into order um if you could please stand george if you could lead us in the play

You want to do roll call?

Board member Lozada.

Present.

Board member Murphy.

Here.

Board member Abramson. Board member Turbides. Present. Vice Chair Gonzales. Here. Chair Shaw. Here. We have a quorum.

Great. Could we get somebody to approval of the minutes from the last minute?

I want you to approve.

Anybody second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. We have one ordinance that we're looking at tonight.

Wow. Let me read the title.

Annoyance of the Mayor and Commissioner of North Bay Village, Florida, amending Chapter 11, signs, and Chapter 15, form-based code to address current legal requirements to establish specific standards and regulations and to consolidate all provisions related to signs, provide them for sub-ability, provide them for codification, provide them for conflicts, and provide them for an effective date.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman and board members. It's been a while since I've been at one of these meetings. My partner, Tony Rezio is normally with you or Danny Simo. Tony will be joining us this evening, but I'm gonna go ahead and get us started on the presentation on our sign code amendments. This is a project that we've had in the works for quite some time.

Can you hear me, John?

Okay. Tony is online. Have you had an opportunity to look at the sign code at the ordinance? Okay, okay. So what I'm going to do is just give you a brief overview of what the ordinance does. What you'll see on the screen is by no means intended to cover every situation. The sign code is very detailed. And so we're not going to sit here for several hours. But I at least want to get your feedback on some high level things. So With that, what we've done is unified all of the sign regulations in chapter 11. Right now, you have a chapter 11 sign code, and you also have a chapter 15 that addresses your transect zones. So your T624, your T630. And there are oftentimes in the chapter 11 regulations that you are directed, or whoever the reader is, is directed to look at chapter 15 for sign regulations. So we wanted to make it more user-friendly and just make it efficient for people who are looking for these regulations to fight them. So a lot of this, a lot of what you'll see in this very long ordinance are reorganization things. It's a lot of strikethrough and it's a lot of movement from one section to another. And I'll point out some of those as we go. You'll also see that we've provided an extensive background on legislative intent. We've done this really to support the defensibility of this code. There's a lot in the code that we didn't have any legal issues with. It's policy decisions. But we do want to make sure that everything that we're doing is something that if we were challenged, we can defend in court. And so there's a long history on the legislative intent. I'm not going to go into that this evening. There's several pages worth of intent that you can read over when you have time. I talked about number three in the definitions. That is where you'll also see a significant amount of change. We have reorganized the definitions. We've made it alphabetical. We haven't really eliminated definitions. And I went through an exercise to make sure that everything carried over into this version. But we now have 70 definitions where before it was we had a definition and then subparts to that definition. So we've made it just more straightforward, or at least that's the goal. And then what we've also done is we've included some illustrations of sign types. Those illustrations are currently in your chapter 15, and we've moved those over to chapter 11.

Okay.

So I'm just going to go as quickly as I can through the sections, each section of chapter 11, there's 10. So bear with me. If you have any questions along the way, I have no problem with you stopping me and asking me this, this is, this can be fluid. So what I've tried to do for each section of the code is provide what the existing provisions are and what the proposed are. As I mentioned earlier, there's no way in a slideshow like this to encompass every provision. So I just gave you the high level things. But if there's anything that causes you concern or heartburn, let me know. So section 11.1 is the intent. Right now it's about a four line paragraph. What we're proposing is about seven to eight pages worth of legislative intent, addressing constitutional cases from the U.S. Supreme Court and federal cases. And it also incorporates your comprehensive plan, state provisions, county laws, all with the effort of defending the sign code should we ever need to. Of note, and this is one of the provisions where you'll see that we are reorganizing. There were legislative intent provisions that are later in the code dealing with temporary signs. We've moved those, again, just all into an intent provision. Section 11.2 is where you'll find all of the definitions. As it shows there, I guess didn't carry over on the existing side. Disregard what it says on the left-hand side under existing. I should have just said existing definitions are provided in 11.2. The proposed definitions are just reorganized as I said earlier. We have a few definitions that are new and I've pointed those out here. There's a definition for commercial message, digital technology signs, freestanding signs, inflatable signs, traffic control devices, and vacated premises. Then we have a new section, 11.2.5. These are the illustrations that I was mentioning earlier that are currently in chapter 15, and we've just moved them into chapter 11. Under section 11.3, those are your existing non-conforming sign regulations. We're really not making any significant changes here. What you'll see is that we've introduced just one, really one word, which is legal. The idea being that legal non-conforming signs are the ones that can remain. If you have someone who's put up a sign that was done without permits, without the proper zoning approvals, then that sign does still need to come down. So legal non-conforming signs can remain. I think that's it on that one. Then we start getting into the actual substance of the code. In 11.4, you have your sign regulations. Currently, this regulates the signs everywhere in the district except those transit zones. Those are in Chapter 15 right now, so we're moving those, and you'll see that on the right-hand side and I realize that on my screen, this is a lot larger than what's on the screen here in chambers. But we're incorporating clearance regulations, science types, specific regulations from Chapter 15, all under Chapter 11. We've also addressed regulations about intensely illuminated areas, just providing additional parameters for the village's police department to be able to prohibit or restrict those within 100 feet of intersections or crosswalks or traffic control devices where those could impair drivers or pedestrians and create safety issues. What we've also done is there's provision within 11.4 there's general regulations. And when I started going through this and collectively, this was, I should say, this was a team effort. One of, I had two of my partners working with me on this, Craig and Sylvia from our village planners office. We've all had insight into this new sign code and really the goal being a, the constitutionality of it, but also the user friendliness of it. And so what we realized is that there were, regulations in 11.4 that were limited and throughout other parts of this chapter. They were limited to, for example, the T6 zones had certain prohibitions on signs. And when you read the list, you scratch your head and say, well, why isn't this prohibited village-wide? So we really wanted to just include that all under one encompassing area. So you'll see more of that as we go along. So 11.4, what we've done is Again, reorganization of the code. Right now, there's zoning district-specific regulations in Section 11.9. Those have been reorganized under this 11.4. The idea being 11.4 is titled regulations. Might as well have the regulations in one place as opposed to now go search in another section for these provisions. So the district-specific regulations have been reorganized here. Right now in Section 11.4, we've added the single-family regulations, which simply provide that no signs are allowed in your single-family districts except for a nameplate to identify the owner and, of course, temporary signs. And we'll get into temporary signs. I know that that's one that people are always very interested in. When we get into your multifamily regulations, we've also retained the same regulations for multifamily within this new subsection within 11.4. And so you'll see there on the left-hand side what's currently allowed. No signs are allowed in multifamily except for temporary signs, exempt signs, accessory signs, and directional signs, identification signs, and signs on the valance of awnings, canopies, and roller curtains. So is there anything else of note here? We did add, and this will be a change that we'll need to make for first reading once we move forward. There's regulations for RM70 within Chapter 8. So under 8.16, you have your accessory regulations. Within that, there are specific sign regulations for RM70 properties. So we're going to move those for the next version of this ordinance into, there's a reference to it. There's a reference within this ordinance to 8.16. I'd rather just take those out from 8.16 and move them here with that continued goal in mind. Your commercial regulations are, again, staying the same. On the left-hand side, again, is what you currently have. No signs are allowed in your commercial district except for temporary exempt accessory flat signs on the facades of buildings, projection signs, detached signs, and signs. I call this the shopping center signs, right, where you have signs in a plaza and you have multiple businesses within it. there's a requirement that those signs are supposed to be consistent in style and color throughout the property. Your transit regulations are also being moved here. No signs are allowed in the transit zones except for a very long list of what is allowed. So you've got your temporary signs and the exempt signs. Those two are across all of the zoning districts. And then you have a sign restriction table, which starts on page 30 of 43 of Exhibit A of the ordinance that you have before you for this evening. Let me make sure there's nothing else I wanted to say on that. so that sign restrictions table I think is I did put it in so what I've done here is I've taken the table that's in the code and I just want to show you what we are proposing. So you'll see, and my apologies, again, this is much smaller than I anticipated, but I guess the one over here is more visible. On my right-hand side, this TV may be a little easier to read. So we go from everything from A-frame signs, awnings, band signs, also known as wall signs, and canopies. The provisions are effectively the same. There's a few places where we've added language of what the sign can say for an awning, clarifying that it's limited to whoever the tenant's name, their logo, and their address. Some of the provisions are more technical in nature, like canopy signs, how high Can the copy of the text be on a canopy sign? So we've added 18 inches there and other regulations and where these signs can go. And so that table, again, starts at page 30 of 43 at line 939 of the code. And then the next few slides show the distinctions among those signs. Craig, I don't know if there's anything that you want to point out on the sign restrictions table and any of the technical changes. Do you want to do that now or later?

No, I don't have any that I want to point out.

So these are pretty straightforward. And then you'll see that there are parts of this table that are shown in strikethrough. For example, the for sale signs on the prior page, banner signs, commercial construction, and window and yard signs, open house, estate sale signs. All of those are being removed from this chart or table and placed in a temporary sign chart because they really aren't the permanent signs that you would see. For example, an open house sign is a temporary sign, right? You're only going to have it on the day of your open house or maybe the day before. Also within 11.4, you have your prohibited signs. Those start at page 33, and there's a long list of what is prohibited. And when you look at the ordinance, you'll see that there's some language that is shown in underline, which is an addition to the text. I say that it's an addition, but that's not exactly accurate, right? It's a reorganization once again. So even though it looks like we're adding a lot, we really are just moving it from other parts of the code into this section. And the example I was giving earlier, on line 974, you'll see that there's billboards and outdoor advertising signs, signs that simulate emergency lights on emergency vehicles, signs that use intermittent lights or strobes. All of those were prohibited in the transit zones, but they weren't specifically prohibited in all of the zones. And when I read that, I didn't think that you would want to allow those within your commercial or RM70 or other districts. So that's why you see that now as all in one prohibition section. Section 11.5 is not the most exciting section of this code, but it is the section that says you need to get a permit to get a sign code, to get a sign. Permits are required. That still will remain the same. What we've done is add an additional requirement that signs cannot be moved or altered without additional approval, excluding, of course, if you're maintaining or repairing, repainting the sign or if you're removing it. The exempt sign section is in 11.6, and that is, again, another list of exempted types of signs that do not require a permit. So they can be put up. For example, temporary signs, so long as they meet the regulations of another section of the code, 11.7, which we'll get to. Temporary signs don't require you to come in and ask for permission. You can just put up your yard sign or your open house sign, for example. Then we get into temporary signs, and temporary signs are really one that I think cause, and I don't know if Orlando is sitting in the back of the room, but temporary signs tend to cause code enforcement in the community the most angst, particularly when you get to election season. People get really concerned about those. Part of what we're doing this evening is trying to, and through this code change, is ensure that we are allowing speech, right? We have to provide for free speech and First Amendment rights. That's really at the heart of a lot of this. But we also have Supreme Court case law that came out at this point almost a decade ago that really put sign codes on their heads throughout the country. And so where people in the past, you were accustomed to knowing that in a given code, you could have a political sign up for 30 days after an election or 30 days before an election or whatever the timeframe was. And if it said vote for Mr. Rallison, that would be fine. You knew that that was a political sign. Nowadays, it's a little more challenging because we can't per se base a decision on what the sign says. So what you'll see is that we are tying signs such as that, such as what we would typically consider a political sign. We're tying it to an event, and the event is the election. So you'll see that the time frame for people to have an election sign, a political sign up, is based on the timeframe before and after the election, with the election being the date. Let's see. So right now, you've got temporary signs for events. Generally, events must be removed within seven days after an event concludes. Political primaries and elections are treated as an event. Temporary signs unrelated to events must be removed within 30 days after being erected. temporary signs can't be lit. And permits, again, are not required for temporary signs, although I do want to make the caveat that while zoning approval may not be required, you still may need to obtain a building permit depending on the type of sign. As I shared earlier, we took away some of the intent language that's currently in this provision of the code and we reorganized it under 11.1. And then the regulations for real estate related signs like the open houses, for sale, for rent, all of those are now consolidated under 11.7. And what I've... noted here is that the for sale lease rent signs must be removed within seven days of the sale lease or rental. Open house signs can be installed the day before an open house and removed the same day of the open house. But in no case can they remain for more than 48 continuous hours. And of course, you can only place these signs on the referenced property. So you're not putting it on your neighbor's property, you're putting it on your property. or down the street for that matter on right of way. And there is a prohibition on signs in the right of way. 11.7 is the chart that I was explaining. This is one of the charts. So right now you have your temporary sign standards in 11.7. And as you'll see here, there's some proposed revisions. These revisions were proposed about two years ago when we were doing a cleanup of the ULDC. And the cleanup, of course, became much more than a simple thing. And it was... It wasn't quite a rewrite of the code, but it felt like a lot more than a cleanup. And so some of these revisions had been made at that point. They weren't adopted. They were just part of the materials that you looked at back then. And I know some of you were not on this board at the time. but just this board reviewed it and the commission, it was part of the package, but we removed it before second reading so that we could just do a standalone sign ordinance, which is what we're doing now. So some of this language may seem familiar. I think to me, some of the most significant changes are the first line, which is currently you are allowed to have three signs per parcel in single family and three signs per parcel in multifamily and four in commercial. The recommendation from two years ago was to change it from a per parcel basis to a per frontage basis. to provide one, two, and two. So where you used to have three, you would have one per frontage in single family, two per frontage in multifamily, and two per frontage in commercial. Other than that, the sign height maximum is proposed to change from 24 feet to 10 feet in the multifamily and commercial, and also reduced from 25 feet for the minimum sign setback for ground signs to five feet. And those two changes are on the multifamily and commercial side. And then the maximum aggregate for all signed messages is being decreased from 120 square feet to 20 square feet per frontage on multifamily and 40 in commercial. So in other words, if you have... You can have up to two signs, for example, and each sign can be, I'm just looking at the column on the far right, if you're looking at commercial, you have two signs per frontage, each with a maximum square footage of 40 square feet. But overall, this number at the bottom can't exceed 40 square feet of signage per frontage. So you can choose to have one sign that's 10 square feet and another that's 20, 30, and you can get to the 40. So it's the aggregate of all the signs. It continues, the temporary signs for T6 zones. Again, these are currently in 15.6.E of the ULDC, and we're moving them over to 11.7. So you'll see here Again, we're speaking about temporary signs, and this is just showing the strike through and underline of what would be placed in the code. For those at home and here who are looking at this later and saying, wait a second, this is not exactly what's in the code, Heidi. That's right, because since we were striking it from this other chapter 15 and moving it into chapter 11, All we're showing in chapter 11 is an underline. And we're not doing the strikethrough since we struck it completely. So here, I do want you to be able to see the actual changes because they're not quite as obvious where they've been moved. 11.8 of the code is about maintenance, abandonment, and removal of signs. I don't think there's a whole lot of change here, but we are moving the requirement about appearance and functionality into this section where requiring removal if a use is not reestablished or a new use within two years of vacancy and requiring removal of movable signs during high wind events. And then this is my last slide for those who are holding me to the 10 slides that I said, or 10 sections. 11.9 currently provides your district sign regulations, as I have emphasized, those are moved to 11.4. And then 11.10, which is your current variance process, that's being renumbered under 11.9. And 11.10 is now a new section related to ADA compliance for science. That's all I've got. I can tell you that presenting this was much faster than preparing for this. I can assure you of that.

Yeah, I bet.

Any questions?

Does anybody have anything? I have something. Sure. You mentioned something about legal nonconforming science. Yes. What does that mean? And can we incentivize somebody that has a non-conforming sign to make it pretty? I feel like one's going to be ugly and one's going to be pretty, but because it was there, we could keep the ugly, but I would rather incentivize them to make it pretty.

Okay. So a legal non-conforming sign is a sign that at one point was legal. In other words, today the code says you can have a sign that's five feet by five feet on the side wall of your building. And tomorrow we adopt an ordinance that says you can't have a sign on the side wall. And so that sign that at one point was permitted and it was allowed under our code, it now becomes a legal non-conforming sign.

Does that make sense? I get all that, but if it's not the size or the color, it is what it is. You just said it's in the middle of something that probably shouldn't be there. Now it's not aesthetically pleasing to the village. How do you incentivize them to move it?

The idea is that you're supposed to phase out legal non-conforming signs. When these regulations were adopted, currently, it actually doesn't say the date, So your current regulations say that the non-conforming signs would be required to adhere to our new regulations within five years from the date the ordinance was adopted. When you look at old versions of the code, there's a 2018 version of the code that says it gave a 11.3. The 2018 version said five years from September 19th, 2017. So presumably after whatever five years from 2017 is, that would be 2022. So by September of 2022, those signs should have been- Updated to the new code. Correct. Correct. Right now, your code doesn't say the date. And that is something that I want to make sure that we're able to when we update it.

So can we say 18 months from when this is enacted?

We can consider 18 months. I think the reason that they had five years is to give people the ability to amortize the use of the signs.

So if they're... Maybe we can like see when they purchased it. Maybe if it was like past five years, then they have another 18 months to get it done. If they just bought it yesterday, then maybe they have five years. Your amortization should only be five years. And if you just so happen to not conform, we're giving you an extra 18.

So you're suggesting 18 months from the... Enacting of this.

Unless you've had it for less than five years, then we'll, like... You said amortize it over five years or whatever.

Okay.

So if they've had it for five years, they have 18 months. If they've had it for more than five years, they have 18 months to...

bring it up to date if it was re if it was under the five years then exactly yeah that's good we probably want to refer to the permit date the building permit date or the sign permit date yes that way we have we have a starting point if you gotta if you have if you have a building permit prior to some date then you have 18 months if you obtain your building permit after that date, then you have whatever other time, maybe it's five years.

Is that telling? It is.

Yes, and I'm sorry to interrupt.

Heaven was talking to me, you know?

My apologies.

All right, so made a note of that.

And then I have one other thing. You have certain amount of signs for parcel, but how is that like the Lexi over here with all the retail? I mean, they have like 10 businesses. How does that like affect it?

Give me one second.

I think your first draft mentioned by storefront.

It does have it by storefront. It does have... So... You're able to have... Yeah, it is this side. Okay. So you are able to have flat signs on the facades. You're allowed to have one on each frontage, but you are prohibited from having signs on the sides that face residential areas. Okay. For calculation purposes, maximum single building storefront sign is limited to 75 square feet. In the case of a commercial or office use located on the ground floor of a multi-story building, only the first floor facade area shall be used for the purpose of calculating the permissible sign area. And where an establishment fronts on more than one street, the above area of signs may be permitted on each street frontage. Craig, by any chance, do you have offhand the number of signs? I think each, I can't find it right now. I think like what the chairman was explaining for a building like the Lexi next door that has multiple tenants, each tenant can have their own sign, right?

That would be correct. Each tenant can have their own sign.

Trying to find the provision, but I can't right now.

That's it?

That's it. Okay. These might already be included in the documentation, but I didn't see you addressing it in your presentation. One, variance. Would something similar to what our code allows that somebody has a hardship is that something that someone can come up and request a variance on maybe the size if the sign is placed far away i'm going to give you like three or four and then you can answer each one okay okay so is that something that's going to be allowed in in the ordinance for someone to you know request a variance for um size The other thing is banners. Are banners also considered signs? Are they subject to the same size regulation, the 40 feet, etc.? And what materials are we talking about? Is that addressed also in the ordinance where the sign is wood, plastic, canvas? that and um securing the sign uh if you got a big plank board you know um and it's not secured properly you have a wind event what kind of safety might that might you know issues that might bring And finally, content. Does it have, do we, I know that First Amendment, all that, but content can be an issue. You can put up a sign with some sort of like racial slur or, you know, something that it's not appropriate for what we expect here at the village can happen. anything be done about content as well. So those are the four things.

All right. So we'll start with hardship. I'll take them in order.

To his list? Generally, yes.

Generally, yes.

And I also have one thing. In the Grand, not to single them out, but at Grandview Palace, they also have a structure that has a list of all the storefronts.

Mm-hmm.

How is that sign regulated? Because I didn't see anything in the ordinance or explain today how that would be regulated as far as for any other property or that one in itself. Because they have a standalone structure.

And that one I know is permitted. I'll have to find where in the code, but there is a provision for having a sign that provides a directory. I think we actually define it as a directory sign.

Okay.

Okay.

That one's pretty big.

The dimensions? Yes. Okay. And I think, again, these... dimensions get adjusted throughout the years with each sign code change, right?

But it also falls into the light near an intersection with traffic devices.

That's why I was... But is it an intensely illuminated sign? That's what I was referring to earlier when I was bringing that up.

No, it's not. But someone else can come in and put spotlights on

They would need a permit for that. Okay. So going through the list, hardship variances. We've actually clarified that. I don't. It's going to bring up the actual text, but I'm not going to flip through. So right now, variances are granted the same way other variances are. But in lieu of the hardship criteria, you have criteria that provides that the variance has to relate to the particular piece of land. The variance can be granted provided that there's no substantial detriment to the public good. The benefits of the deviation provided by the variance outweigh any detriment. The variance would not substantially impair the intent or purpose of the village's comprehensive plan and or zoning ordinances. And the variance does not authorize an outdoor advertising sign, in other words, a billboard. So those are the standards for variances. And those are all in Section 11.3. Currently, they're in 11.10. They're proposed to be moved to 11.9. Your next question about banner sign regulations and materials. So materials are addressed in the code. I don't think that there's any one. Each definition, and this is why the definitions, particularly in the sign code, are so important. Each definition utilizes, let me not say each definition. Most of the definitions address the type of or where a sign can be placed. the depth of the sign. So if it's, for example, the North Bay Village letters that you have behind you here on the dais, those project from the wall a certain depth. And so throughout the sign code, you see regulations that are actually within the definitions of the type of sign that say it can't project from a wall more than X number of inches or feet. And then there's others where it talks about the type of material where the sign can actually be or be made of. And that's just scattered throughout. So for banner signs, the definition of those and part of what has made this a little bit more of a challenging topic exercise is that we had definitions in chapter 15 definitions in chapter 11 and now we're we've reorganized them and so part of the exercise and and we're going to continue to check this before adoption and as we progress through the hearing process is making sure that if we kept if if the definition and banner sign specifically had a definition in both chapter 11 and chapter 15 if we're keeping the definition from one chapter or the other really making sure that is that the best definition for for us do we want to use the 15 definition the 11 definition a combination a totally different definition okay So for banner signs, since that was your question, those are signs possessing characters, letters, illustrations, or ornamentations applied, and here's where the materials comes in, applied to cloth, paper, or fabric of any kind, either with or without frames. So here you're not getting, at least in the definition, a regulation about, for example, the projection and how far out it can come from the wall, but there's other instances where you'll see, And of course, I can't find one quickly. But there are other instances where the definition will say it can't project more than a certain number in the actual projected or projecting sign definition. So that's where you'll see something like any sign that's affixed to any building or wall and extends beyond the building wall more than 18 inches. that would be considered a projecting sign.

Are they also restricted as to the square footage change?

Yes.

So they have to meet that requirement, the square footage?

Different signs will have different square footage requirements, location requirements, and all of that is set out throughout the... Is it over here? A lot of that is in this chart. So you'll see that an awning, you can have one sign on an awning per sloping plane plus one per valance. So it's almost slope that comes down and then the valance in the front. And then it provides how much of the area, it provides the height here in the regulations of how tall can the letters be, because that's also something that you're able to regulate. Can the letters be a foot high in the text, in the copy, or can they be 20 feet high? Does that answer that question? Okay.

Satisfied.

Okay. Spanner wind events. So one of the additions, and it may have been somewhere else in the code, but one of the additions is that during a wind event, if you have a sign that's movable, just trying to find where we had that. It's an 11 point. I can't see this on my screen.

That'll be 11.8. Thank you.

I have the bar for screen sharing at the top and I couldn't see the section number. So in 11.8, we've added that during a high wind or storm event, you have the requirement to remove a movable sign. So if you have, for example, an A-frame sign outside of your storefront, you have a restaurant and you want to put out the specials of the day on an A-frame sign, that needs to be removed during a high wind event. Is that what you were going with with that question?

Yeah, I mean, that applies to what I was asking. But I'm also thinking about if you put up a temporary sign, for example, a wood plank, plywood plank, and you put it up there and you're just nailing it in. And it's difficult that, you know, it's not just a sign you can pick up and bring inside, but it could become a safety hazard in a wind event. How are we addressing that and who enforces that those signs are removed? you know, in that event.

So to the extent that a building permit would be required for that, then you would get a citation for not having a building permit and our code enforcement department goes and enforces that.

Okay.

Um, I, I, I think temporary signs are generally movable. Um, you know, a campaign sign, a yard sign, those are movable. Um, I'm trying to think of a plywood example.

Yeah, we've had them blow.

We had a situation when we had a wind event and

Building that's right across. Yes. Okay. And we had signs and we had other things to just blow up into our building.

Yeah.

I mean, if it's a permanent sign, it should be permitted through the building department and up to code on whatever the wind regulations are. And that's all Florida building code.

Okay.

Yeah.

There's a lot of debris that blew up.

What I would say is if there's a sign that you think probably shouldn't be there, call our code enforcement department. I'm sure. Orlando and Murillo, they'll go out and investigate. Okay. Content and obscenity. So there's sort of two categories, right? You've got commercial signs and non-commercial signs. And those are your two buckets when we think about sign codes. As far as obscenity, we get that question a lot. We tend to defer to the state regulations. There's some state law provisions that prohibit... Hey, Tony. There are state provisions that regulate obscenity. It's the, I know it when I see it, it's obscene. There's a famous Supreme Court case where I think one of the justices said he knows obscenity when he sees it. And so because it's such a delicate area of the law, if there's an issue, My prior statement was code enforcement will go out if you see something that's concerning. I'm almost certain that we will get a call if there's something that appears obscene or discriminatory or anything like that. And then we'll do the analysis on our end as to can it be prohibited? Should the person be cited? Should it be immediately taken down? all of that. And there's that analysis that we would need. Here's a copy.

If I may, to that point, I think that's a worthwhile recommendation to make, that we include some statement prohibiting obscene or offensive text or anything like that I think that would be a worthwhile recommendation okay including uh 24 within 24 hours so it could be an immediate like removal you mean um I think yeah we could yeah let's address it we'll make it as aggressive as we can possibly make it you know without uh infringing on anyone's first amendment rights yeah

That's it for me.

I'll make a motion to approve yours. I'll second. So there was a motion by Board Member Murphy and there was a second by Vice Chair? Nope.

THE VICE CHAIR. SECOND.

ROLL CALL.

BOARD MEMBER MURPHY.

YES.

BOARD MEMBER LOZADA. YES. VICE CHAIR GONZALEZ. YES. CHAIR SHAW. YES. BOARD MEMBER TURBINES. I'M SORRY. YES. FINALEZ.

GREAT. ANY OTHER ITEMS?

NO.

ALL RIGHT. THAT'S IT. I'M GOING TO ADJOURN.

YOUR NEXT MEETING I HEAR WILL BE MUCH LONGER. You have, just giving you a preview. You can go. You'll have, your planning department is planning to bring you many, many applications.

That's fantastic. What is the next?

Your next recording.