Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Evening everyone. Um, welcome to the August 20th regular meeting of the North Augusta Planning Commission. Take your time. You're fine. It's You're fine. Um, and we are going to do roll call very slowly to allow Commissioner Christie time to get in. Rhett Harbison, Jesse Elliot, Lisa Christie, Chelsea Wadau, and I'm your chair, Christine Crawford.

All right. So, if we could please review the minutes. If there are any changes or um edits, please share. If not, I'd entertain a motion to accept. Make a motion to accept the minutes. Second. All right. So, it's been moved and seconded. Uh, all those in favor, please say I. I. Opposed. Right. Mr. Paradise, do we have uh any changes to the agenda? U. The only change I would have is we've got a couple of discussions towards the end about training and a reminder about the U special call meeting.

Okay. Um so I will remind uh members audience that before we will start um considering applications we will talk to Mr. Paradise then the applicant will come up um once the applicant finishes sharing whatever information they'd like for us to share. We would ask any members of the community to come forward keep their comments for around two minutes. When you come to the podium, please be sure to give your name and address so that the folks out in uh Facebook land will also know who is addressing them. And we will then have the members of the community after they ask their questions have the applicant come back up to respond and we will proceed from there. Okay. All right. So, first on the agenda is go to the next slide. Thank you. Uh, Swallow Lake Drive town homes, major subdivision preliminary plat uh, request. So, Mr. Paradise.

Uh, yes, ma'am. This is in lakes and streams. Preliminary plat um, request. It affects 17.58 acres. It's zoned R seven and we'll have single family residential attached. It'll have 78 single family attached homes which is um a use by right in the R seven. This is zoned R seven. Um the traffic we looked at that it did not require a TIA. It the highest peak hour generation was 44 trips in an hour in the late afternoon time frame and you're required to have 50 before a TIA would be required. It is uh and no variances or waiverss have been requested for this. So, it's meeting everything. Staff has looked at it and it's meeting all of the requirements. This gives you an idea of where it's at. This one, I like this one better. Um the kind of teal color that you see is county. So, this is how it's situated in there. Um, and then the blue across from all sudden when we met with the developer was the length of Swallow Lake Road and all of this traffic coming down Swallow Lake Road. And as you'll notice in your packet, they acquired a lot there on Lake Greenwood and they will have an access on Lake Greenwood as well as Swallow Lake. So that'll leave the concerns that staff had there. This is I give you the general layout

and basically same thing different sheet and any questions for me questions for MS. All right. All right. If the applicant could please come forward and again give us your name and address. Good afternoon. Uh name is Philip Green, Southern Partners, 1233 Augusta West Parkway. Appreciate your uh your time tonight and hearing our application. Um as Mr. Paradise pointed out, this is uh 79 units of attached town home development. Um it it currently meets the the zoning, so we have no uh no request for zoning variances or waiverss. Um, we have, as Mr. Paradise pointed out, worked with staff uh through most of the issues that were on this property and I think we pretty well got staff satisfied other than a few pieces of paperwork which we'll we'll catch up here in the next couple of weeks. Um, it's a pretty straightforward piece. Uh, we have some uh some off-site sanitary sewer uh that'll be run. We've got some detention ponds. Um, other than that, it's uh it's pretty straightforward for a uh a fee simple town home development. Uh, glad to answer any questions that you might have.

Any questions for Mr. Green? You may not know this off the top of your head, but are you guys planning to rent these or sell these? Do you have y'all decided that yet? Is it kind of up in the air? I I would I would refer to the uh for sale units. I have a question about the pronunciation of the street names. Is that Bllelock? Blic, I think. Block. Okay. And Tugalo. Tougalo. Tuglo. Tougalo.

Okay. Well, I'm glad that nobody really knows that. That's always a fun game trying to figure out the road ends with with Aken County 91. Yeah, both good. Uhuh. Do y'all have any like renderings or you're not there yet of like are they two story, one story, two bedroom, threebedroom? Are they Thank you.

I got the short version apparently. Sorry. And I'm I'm assuming that the price point is probably low high nines, twos, low threes. Okay.

If there are no other questions, you can have a Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. All right. Any questions, discussion? Motion. Yeah, I'll make a motion for this is going to be P24-00003 Swallow Lake Town Homes. Uh, and this will be with the conditions. Uh the approval includes certification of the use of road names Lelay Lake Drive and Tugalo Lake Court and any outstanding comments will be addressed to the satisfaction city staff. Do I have a second? Second.

Okay, it's been moved and seconded. All those in favor, please say I. I. All oppose. No. Thank you. All right. So, um Oh, I'm sorry. Did you you Okay. All right. So, uh the halo sign um illuminated sun and Lauren Fuff is going to uh I think come forward and help educate us. Oh, okay. Well, thank you. All right. If you could please give your name and address.

I'm Christian Morris. Uh we're at 426 Park West Drive line of sign company. All right. Are there some slides you want us where you I guess you were going to share with us. Um you do have a copy of these. I I'll have on the DS for you. Okay. Uh so we were trying to we're talking about um halo signage and whether or not we think it's appropriate for kind of our downtown mixed use.

Okay. and wanted. So, we've had lots of questions around how do you um kind of put some guard rails on the top of signage and and what um you know different if it's warm, cool, like I guess brightness, how you regulate some of those things if you typically um you usually just use a white light. Okay.

Um that's mostly what we use. It'll be up to customer request, I guess. Uh, right across the street over at Beacon Bluff, that guy just got a variance. He's going to have all Halo lit and it's going to be multiolor. It's actually going to change. Um, he he got that done. Um, but it can be it can be changed. Color intensities. Mhm. Warm white. Yeah, we got warm white, uh, which is more of a yellow. Okay. Um, more of a white color. That's kind of the standard. That's what you're going to see almost everywhere. That's just it grabs your eye, but it's not offensive, right?

You know, it's not it's not like it doesn't add to any light pollution. And the good one one good example I could give you is the uh the white oak picture on there. Yes. Right. That one. So, it having the light on front, you almost can't tell that those are backlit letters. So, if you had headlights or street lights, anything else in the area, it's it's going to take away from it. It's not going to be bright, you know, you're not going to get that sign. Um, and I've got a letter right here if you would like to see it lit. Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. In person. We just whipped this up kind of before we left it. all the lights inside of it.

Okay. It is a it's half the glow that you're going to get from say a facelit sign. Um but then the front of them they can they could be painted in all different colors the front will the light comes out the back. So regardless of the light color, if they're whether you know if they're off or on, the face is still going to be whatever color, you know, that stainless on this one, blue, what, whatever. So, let me let me um I know that one of the things I guess that I've recently learned in lighting is nowadays with LEDs, some lights are almost disposable. Like you can't replace. This is true. you have to just throw away the whole

um is that true? So there could be not from you all but somebody could buy halo sign from somewhere where two of the letters could go out the whole thing some portion of it and unless they replace the entire letter. No, it could not. That's not that it doesn't work quite like that. On the back these actually the body comes off of this plastic part. Okay. Okay. And these can the lights can be swapped out. Uh back in I guess back in the day it used to be neon. You could take the neon units out and swap them out. Same way with these. The individual lights can be taken out and removed. Just not one by one. You would replace a full letter a full letter strand.

I got you. But not necessarily have to replace. Correct. Correct. And we can still get you know the color range. It's on the LED so we can match it back. It's not G. So you don't have one white one, one yellow one, one one, you know, all different shades of white. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Both of them. Yeah. For sure. Okay. You want me to come up there with you? Yeah. Come on up there.

That's all right. But we also don't want people driving.

But the way they could get a color requires Okay. Yeah. Let me I'm gonna give you a mic. So, right there. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, each individual one has its own. I mean, they stick down individually, but we can take this off. Front would come off. The back stays on mounted to whatever building. And then we we run do a little bit line through the building like that.

That that would not be okay with the other because then that would be considered uh internally and so and that is that is not okay. Okay. Um but the answer is yes we can. Yeah. Yes. Yes, it can be done. It is possible. Cannot be done in downtown I believe. Those would not be considered, right? If they were face light is coming through. Yeah. So, yeah, this if the light comes out this side is face lit out the back back lit,

that would be a halo lit letter. Even another good example I could give you is wing stock. Those all have it's the light doesn't come out of the back of the letter. There is like a it's called a cloud and it comes out the back of the um if you like the floating panel you had a floating panel the light comes from behind that rather than each individual letter. So that that's another option. That's another type of Yep. It's still considered halo. Yep.

Cloud or individual letter. Yeah. My question I think that that would be most helpful to kind of what we're trying to do is is I think we're probably I I'll just say for me I think I'm leaning towards just saying white only. Um how would you obviously even with this these are all considered white but the different temperatures. That's right. how you being from that world, how would you think we should word because you know I don't necessarily have to say only 6,000 Kelvin like how should we word a regulation of I mean we could just say white

and then now you could say no uh RGB which is red green blue that's multiolor lights uh that's just what they RGB is all multiolor lights are called RGB lights so you could say no RGB BS and that would limit it down to that very small range. Okay. Um, like I said, the large majority of what the design company, the signage industry uses is that 4,000 to 6,000. We we very rarely get into yellows. It looks old. Kind of looks dingy, you know. Yeah. The natural

in some areas. In some areas, you know, it depends. It depends. Again though, if it's going to be especially in this area lower to the ground with street lights around, your street lights will easily drown that out even if you do go with bright. Well, so and it and I don't know if this helps or not, but part of it is um downtown Georgia Avenue kind of making it more pedestrian friendly. So, it's really about walking and those smaller buildings that are right close to each other. Yes, ma'am. So, that's also the look. So it's not so much kind of as many of the monument signs because the the the buildings are right the way the buildings are set up. Right. Right. Right.

It'd be more for buildings I guess you think. Right. So that's the context. Right. Yeah. That's going to be honestly a halo lit letter is going to be perfect. It's more uh modern, elegant even. Yeah. Any any more questions I can help you with? I mean, they come in a variety of finishes. Uh, brushed brushed stainless, any paint color, um, gold, brass, you know, anything you want. Different fonts, different different. Yeah. Heights.

That white oak one, those letters were, I think, four feet tall. And then we get them all the way down to this is about as small as we're going to get. Um but then we have done some as small as you know five inches tall and you know this one's also very thick. This is this was kind of an older one. This was modeled after a neon would be inside this. So literal glass. Um but we have made them half that thick. So we can get away with some pretty pretty interesting stuff nowadays. Just the thinness of how small some of these mods are. These LEDs are.

How far off the wall do they usually about that far. So when you're looking at it, you you can't tell. You can't see the depth off. But yeah, anywhere between about three and four in depending on the letter height. Mr. Paradise, I have a question for you actually and maybe maybe not for you, but I think for you. Um, when we're measuring for the square footage requirement for these zones, are we just going from tip top of one letter to the I mean, I guess it's it's could not be a full thing. So, if you draw a box, right,

perfect. I think I'm satisfied. Um, just a What would um if you had a city block, right, getting this downtown, right? What would your worst nightmare in terms of with these all on all at the same time? Every building has it. You mean? Yeah. I would love it. Okay. I would love it. It's not a nightmare at all. That's a dream. He said, "Give them all my phone number."

Yeah. To be to be honest, they look I I hate to say that a facelift letter looks trashy, but compared to a halo lit, it's almost old school, you know? It really is. When it's not they're not so bright as to where like this one is shining on that one. They really are very at least all the ones that I've seen are very self-contained. And to be honest, if they were to be so bright as to be a problem, they would not do the customer justice because you wouldn't be able to read the sign because it'd be too bright. So, all the ones that I have seen have been very I mean, it's it's perfect. It's it's better than even like you said the the light shining on signs, which we have a lot of. Um I I personally like the Yeah.

I just think we we definitely want to stay away from like flashing colors and everything like that. And and once you start getting into certain shades of blues and reds, they'll all bleed together if they're facelit. The just that red is so vibrant, it's hard for your eye to make out lines in it. So when you start getting facelit, yeah, reds and blues definitely run together. Whereas face lit, not so not so bad. Um and I think the only other but you said the letters can be smaller because I don't know the size make sure that the size of requirements for signage we start and can

the minimum height that we've ever built is probably about 6 in letter and that's pretty small and and Dr. Crawford, whatever. Unless y'all change the square footage for signs. Yeah. They they'll have to meet those same square footages. Okay.

All right. are there. Um, so let me just and as a so we could specify um either natural or cool white as a type in the or is that not necessarily I guess will that is that is that a standard definition or is that just an example? I guess is difference between standard and you know as far as limiting that that's going to be kind of difficult. That's leave that on. I'm put that on y'all. Um, but like I said, anything maybe maybe put it ab above a certain uh color range. Any signs above 4K or Okay.

anything else. You just don't want that. You don't want that one. I'm here to tell you don't want the warm. Excuse me. And I guess Yeah. And you know, some of this is hard, but when we're writing this, it may be around 10 years from now, right? So, we also don't want, you know, they if they come up, somebody comes up with 20K, white, like is that right? Do we need a upper lip? I mean, I just that's a concern, right? I'll be real with you. Once you start getting into I think 85 or 9,000, they start turning blue. So, yeah, that's you've seen those blue headlights coming down the road. Yeah. Yeah. 95 and higher. Okay. So, greater than three and less than say nine. Yeah.

Yeah. Would it be from from enforcement point of view on would it be instead of saying natural light or cool light specify temperature? Yeah. Would that be better? And and there's be no way for me to measure that. I'll be honest. There's no once it's up. There's there's no way to measure that temp range. When they order it, do they say I want Yes, ma'am. And you just it's somewhere in the 4,000 range. Correct. Personally, we don't put anything less than 4,000.

It's like I said, that's going to be really standard for the signage industry. You know, it just looks dingy once you start going past that old. So, so we could see somebody's sign that looks blue and they could say it's white because I ordered white. And then we would have to then I guess from an enforcement standpoint, they'd have to prove to us that it was within this temperature range. So yeah. So that would be the which it was fine. I mean I think and and my thinking is when they submitted the permit for sign review, would you put the temp of the bulb in there?

Typically no, but uh we could. Typically no, but we we could. That would be a way for us to check it. Right.

But it's not difficult information for you to give us, I guess, is the question, right? Okay. Not at all. That's something we have to specify when we order the LEDs in the first place.

Are there any other questions? All right. Thank you all so much. Thank you. We appreciate you.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. All right. And then now we're down to storage. Unless y'all want to discuss those, I would I would just say I I like the um no RGB. Yeah. And then the color temp. What? 4,000 to 9,000. Yeah. Less than less less than nine. the original. I think it's four to six. Okay. 4,000 to 8,000. Yeah. I I wouldn't

see six 6,000 is a cool white. So, I would say between 4,000 and 5,000 or four to six, somewhere in there.

See, I I guess where I'm falling is I am on board with a little bit. I don't want every side to necessarily look exactly the same, but maybe this is the small business owner downtown coming out of me. Um, you know, I think hopefully any business owner is going to want the best for their business and they pay attention. Obviously, not everybody is going to make the best decisions, but at the same time, there's just there's room for both. But but I I don't but I think that when it gets if the whole point is to not have RBG then to to know that it starts to appear blue even if it's not at more than that is going to cause it because somebody could do white and it's going to look like it's blue then somebody else could do white have two blues you could have. So it inter it interjects a color when we're saying we don't want. So

yeah the letters can be whatever. Well, I'm good with like four to six. Like I think that cool white is fine because again that it's a it's a whiter white. It's not brighter. Yeah. And and Dr. Crawford, I I will say this is one thing. Y'all are going from zero internal illumination to some internal illumination. Maybe you go this route.

So y'all are changing or expanding the capabilities. My suggestion, and it's the suggestion, is to be real tight in the beginning, and you can always open it up later on, but if you're not tight in the beginning, then it's forever grandfathered. So, yeah. So, you know, I would say 4,000, 5,000, 6,000. Then later on, y'all want to change it. Yeah. But you you understand where I'm coming from. No, I think perfect.

So I think I think what you're hearing is interested in in that. So if you could please um I guess take a stab at adding that to the code appropriate place start. Do you want me to draft something for a text amendment at the next meeting or maybe come back and fine-tune the language and then do the text amendment? I think we fine tuned it. It's between four and six. So, I think we could do a text. Yeah. So, I think if we four to six, um,

and I probably would just go ahead. Four to six should cut out any colors anyway. Like you said, the no RGBs because some of the some of them what they'll do is they'll have the LEDs have all three. It's the weirdest thing, but actually white light you can have all three that make the white light. So if if you just you know if one color of those go out then you blue or something. So I think if you just say no RGBs in between four and 6K that would kind of cover most of okay

until we get surprised with something we haven't thought of which will happen like I honestly didn't think about the colors of the actual letters but I think that should be covered in other sign code. Sounds good. We'll give it a try. All right. Thank you.

Then the next one is um self storage facilities and and I sent you a memo on that as we we talked a lot about it last time. you know districts what's by right by special exception you want architectural requirements or any other requirements and after the discussion when it all boiled down I got the impression that y'all were leaning to just putting them by right in the industrial section with no architectural or other requirements. Um, and if that is what y'all want, I will get that drafted for text amendment for next meeting as well. And if it is not, then let me know.

Sounds good to me. I like it. I'm in favor of it being by writing and everything else required. Yeah, sounds good. So then that should be two to All right. All right. So, that pretty much, I believe, covers the regular meeting, so to speak. Okay. Um, but I do have a couple things for you. Um, remember the joint city council and planning commission meeting um on the trolley? Yes,

the trolley tour. September the 22nd, we'll be leaving here at 5:00 pm from 5 to 7 and we'll be touring some of the development sites. And also, we need to get our inservice training done and do you want us to go with a consultant that we have the past couple of years or look for some other training? I will tell you that the BCA said they would like to go with the same training in the week the Wednesday after Thanksgiving.

So we were um the only thing I so I I like the consultant. The only thing though that I asked for additionally, and I don't know if we have time or budget for both, was some kind of um sewage wastewater 101 so that we could because we've talked about impact fees and we've talked about um but it's been in a very abstract way that we know that we do need more from utilities, but we haven't had much of an ed. I don't know anything about that. And so, um, I'm not sure if there's a way if it's internally, but as part of that to also get some kind of, yeah, wastewater sewage 101 utilities. I will I will certainly ask her that.

Okay. But is that And does the Wednesday, which would be December the 3 work for y'all? Yes, this December 3rd as far as I know at this point. Well, let's mark it on your calendar and um I'll reach out to her this week. Yes, ma'am. Got to let folks that get off at 5 get here. All right.

And that's pretty much it for me. the July performance report. Right now we are I am the we we are going through re revisions on plans. We have not received any new plans uh per se and a lot of our activities as far as me have been focused toward code enforcement the last few months. It seems like um we're trying to get some of the hurricane debris cleaned up.

It's summertime. It's time. Um yes, you may be arguing with your insurance company, but it's impacting neighborhoods. Time to get them back to normal. So, that's it for me. Okay. Well, as always, uh we thank you and your team for all that you all do and know that code enforcement is probably um particularly stressful. So, uh appreciate your diligence um and thoughtfulness around that. All right, that being said, u motion to adjourn. So moved. All right, we are adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you, commissioners.