Municipal Council - Regular Meeting

Apologies. Thank you all for coming for the Nartown Municipal Council meeting uh Tuesday, May 5th. Uh can I have a call to order? Wait, why is this backwards? Sorry, Madam Secretary. Why are we Hold on one second. Pardon me. Can I have a moment of silence and pledge of allegiance? I'm just trying to read it from this piece of peace.

I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Now, Madam Secretary, can we have a roll call, please? William McCoy, present. Ver Robinson, here. Jasmine Griffin, here. David McMahon here. Dustin Queen, here. Rashad Bates, here. Uh, do we have a motion to approve last meeting's minutes? So, move. Second. All in favor? I.

Thank you. Uh we did have an executive session on personnel and that's all right. Cool. Thank you. Uh Vice President Quinn, do you have any announcements?

Yes. Anybody? Uh if you need a translator, we have Jess back there. Um just go see her. and uh smoke alarm outreach blitz in Norris Hills area May 30th at 10:00 a.m. uh smoke alarm outreach campaign by Northtown Fire Department and fourth district councilwoman Natalie Coulson uh will reach the following streets in North Oh, there's a couple of them. Um, so block uh 600 blocks of Carolyn Drive, Gary Lane, and Linda Lane, and 600 blocks of Tmont Avenue and High Street. And that is May 30th. And Dave, I'm going still go to your thunder. Uh there's a town hall meeting with at large councilman uh the handsome man down there, David McMahon at Hancock Fire Company at 8:20 West Street, May 7th, 6 through 8:00 p.m. Make sure you're there. This man's he's out there trying to make sure he's available to you guys. That's it for me.

That's all for you, council. Any other announcements? Nope. All right. Happy birthday, Terrence. Sean, should I wait until we get to the presentations to open the agenda? Uh, yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll move on to public comments. Tiffany Todd.

Good evening, council. I've been up here on a few occasions over the last five months talking about rental issues in Nortown. And after another zoning meeting, I'm back here before you again. And to that, I'd like to thank my representative, District 3 Councilman Dustin Queen, for showing up at the last zoning meeting and being moved to speak out, as well as finally seeing burough legal representation to speak on each agenda variance. Having a member of council show up at every zoning meeting should be a common sense thing. There have been quite a few zoning meetings that I've sat beside a member of our current council, but this last one was the first where I've seen so many and a burough rep from the solicitor's office speaking at each variance. It's crazy some of the reasons from the most recent zoning meeting that landlords, specifically 17 Willow and 1415 DAP, gave for letting their rental license expire for years. They literally said life and personal issues got in the way. You can hear the responses on the most recent zoning meeting currently up on the municipality YouTube channel. Beginning at minutes 1 hour and 51 minutes 37 seconds for 1416 Dalb and minute 1 hour 58 minutes 52 seconds for 1711 Willow. The landlord for the 1711 Willow address mentioned that his wife had a baby and that was just one of the examples of how life got in his way and how he let his rental license lapse. During this period, one of his tenants was living in what one can only describe as less than desirable conditions and utility issues. Meanwhile, another local resident took it upon themselves to do a little research and found that also during this time when the rental license laps for 1711 Willow due to life issues, one of his issues must have been the fact that he'd purchased a half million dollar home during that period where not in our town. Can you imagine if that was one of us living in Arstown? Life got in the way and I'm late on my taxes, my storm water bill, a million other things in the burrow. As I've been attending these zoning meetings, there are so many abandoned duplex, triplex, etc. rentals that one can only imagine how many are

actually out there that are actually in a rears, not being paid on. And that's how much money is not coming into the burrow. But our taxes went up this year. When these abandoned rental licenses come up and as they are approved, if there is not some type of additional fine or late fees tacked on for each quarter or at minimum year, it has lapsed. If homeowners in Nortown have to pay additional monies on late taxes and all the other fees that we pay to the burrow, let's start actively adding on and collecting late fees from landlords. And I know that we are short staffed, but Norristown, we must get out and inspect every rental that comes across the zoning board, whether they are approved or not, as well as getting to every rental property in the burrow for inspection, and not on a two-year basis, more like twice a year, or at least to start actively going back to the rental license fees owed. You already know who and where all the properties are, at least the legal ones. And as an aside, I would also like to know if there is an interim public works director that people may direct questions andor concerns to, and if so, who is that person? And if not, what or where are you in the process? Essentially, what's the plan? Thank you.

Thank you,

Roco. Roco guys, how you doing? Uh, we going to do anything about this neighbor mine and shut them down a little bit till 1:00 in the morning. It's terrible. They making noise. Look at this night. They were hammer in next to the bedroom till 1:00 in the morning. The night before they kick and run. They got all kind of look like a B. It's a barn. It's not a house. It's like a bunch of animals in there. If you guys want the address, ask Keith. He got it. Ask the chief. He's got it. Okay. Another thing on a corner beach or cone. Can you guys reinforce a little bit more? They have no cars parked there in a corner. They they parking them trucks come around. They can go around and they come knock on the doors because they know who I am. They because they know the people. They ask me whose car is. I said I don't know. Couple nights ago about a week ago, two weeks ago, there were two cars parked there. They the officer get come but they don't give him the tickets. I don't I don't understand why we got to do something about these EV bikes. You guys better put pressure on it because one of these day they going to be run over. Like a couple days ago I had a green line come through as a guy fly right across.

Okay. You guys got to reinforce the the code and I need I need that noise next door to stop. Okay. Because we can't I've been living there for 54 years and never was this bad. Never. It's getting worse every day. And these people don't care. If we knock on the door, they never open the door. They try to tell them to shut them down. Quiet down. They don't care. They just want to do whatever they want. Like the other side, I had to call the fire department BECAUSE THEY HAD A FIRE IN IN the in the yard about 4 feet high and now THEY GOT A BIG couch against the fence. CAN THEY GET THE ANIMALS going out? I don't know what the hell they do. And one day they're going to light up it again. I called Chief Okconor. They send the truck down the last time. I don't know if they gave him a fine or not, but it's getting bad the neighborhood. If you guys don't straighten it out, you better straighten it out now. Okay? Because if you don't, my wife is going crazy, you know, when with these people, you got to do some I don't know what the hell's going on. And then if you get a chance, I like get my blue paint in front of my house and whoever in charge for that. Okay, I'm done. Have a good day.

Thank you, Tim Waters. Good evening, council. Jim Waters, Hamilton Street. Uh, I told you I'd be back. Look, um, I broke my ankle and that's why I haven't been here. But God works in mysterious ways because I was locked in my library and I began to gather all the documentation about the flooding and how the D hasn't done their job, so on and so forth. and you all had gotten it bits and pieces as time went on. Uh I was here at the last meeting that was cancelled and I had a opportunity to kind of like given a summary uh to President Bates and and by his nod I I guess he understood what I was saying. Sometimes it's hard for a technician to be able to explain something because not everybody's a technician. Now Dave has issue three. Councilman Dave has issued three of this. Um, it basically started out being a flood reduction task force that I confronted Senator Capetti with. And as this evolved, um, I ended up filing a formal complaint with the D with the D as a veteran claiming that Riverfront Park and the condition of the river, you know, in an our south side of it was an environmental crime. So, I'm standing on that as a veteran. So, I will be wearing veteran stuff until the cows come home or we get some of these situations taken care of. Now, January 31st, I began to get my, how would you say it, my stuff together from being a onelegged man in a wheelchair again. I sent you guys an email and and it pretty much

said that the focus on 2026 economic development through tourism. Now, what I'm talking about is the river. I'm talking about the shad that aren't migrating. Uh the big bucks of recreation on the river. Uh all in all, uh it boils down to Nortown is losing $11 million a year based on the Eerie Canal and tourism up there on a navigational system that wasn't destroyed by coal mining. So the the idea is the same thing as the prison. If they allowed us to do something with that prison in the year 2000, that would be producing money. My complaint to the DP is they did not take care of the Stony Creek and that has affected our budget. Where would we be if that was entertainment? And look, I took a lot of pictures and I've been doing this whole story on Next Door. So, you all have caught my act before, right? We know. I should turn around talk to them. Anyhow, this task force is going to move forward and going to continue to document the incompetence of the fish commission. Appreciate your smiles.

Um, there's a email like I'm sorry.

Excuse me, Mr. President. There's an email from uh Olivia Brady that I need to read. She couldn't make the meeting. Okay. All right. So, this is from Olivia Brady, resident. I'm sorry.

Yes, I have one. Thanks. Good evening, members of council. I come to you today with a major concern. I have been reading about municipalities all over this commonwealth who have been made to decide whether a data center is to be built in their towns. Municipalities as close as Limmerch, Plymouth, and Bucks County are being proposed now. As you probably know, these data centers arising all over the country. While they are good for the traveling of data and lining the pockets of the developer, they are horrendous for the community. They consume large quantities of water, which is not a renewable resource. They are noisy and they raise utility rates for the communities in which they are built. It is very possible that if the one in Plymouth is constructed, that we will lose water in our town. So, with all this said, you must all be living under a rock. I've been hoping to see this council be proactive and pass legislation on data centers to regulate them. I find it extremely irresponsible that you have not because without such laws, we are left to accept any of the demands of data center developers. I find it extremely irresponsible that you are leaving this mun municipality unprotected. As you know, zoning laws provide a way for municipalities to develop their town in a way that they want to have it done, not in a way that developers demand it to be done. We can cannot outlaw things we don't want, but with careful legislation, you can safeguard our municipality by not allowing a dangerous development to occur. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter. Sincerely, Olivia Brady. And that's all there is.

Thank you. Well, you know what? Just a quick thing of that. She has perfect timing because you can correct me if I'm wrong, but our our lawyer just submitted something to us that he's done uh writing up um was it the ordinance ordinance that we're going to put into effect. So, I I guess something was beating our ears because we literally just finished it and got an email. Was it the same day or the next day that we It was yesterday. Oh, we just got some yesterday. So, council, I know some councilors want to make some suggested amendments. Uh, I would anticipate probably being a motion at the next meeting to advertise.

So, just let everybody know that that's almost done. Like potentially next meeting would be moving on up. Yeah, no problem.

All right, Sean. This is where I need your help again. Uh, so I want to open up the floor for our storm water appointment. So I want to uh have a motion to open the agenda to add an item to it. Um, so I need a first and a second for that. Council, there has to be a motion to amend the agenda. Okay. So I'll re I'll resay that. Uh, council, I'd like to make a motion to amend the agenda. So move. Second. Um, all in favor is good. All in favor? I. All right. Okay. And then I'd like to make a motion to appoint Terrence Barnes to the Stormwater Authority Board.

And is there a specific term he's being appointed? Uh the term would be until I believe it's December of 2030. Yes.

Okay, that's fine. Thank you. Um, so now open the floor to uh the public if they have a comment or concern or question about that. All right, seeing none. Um, so we had a first and second. Okay, Madam Secretary, have a roll call, please. William McCoy, hi. Dear Robinson, hi. M Coulson, hi. Jasmine Griffin. Hi. David McMahon. Hi. Dustin Queen. Hi. Rashad Bates. Hi. The eyes have it. Thank you all. And we're going to do a little move around here on the agenda here. We want to do the oath of office appointment first uh for Corporal Edward Todd.

Thank you for that. Do you want me to spin this thing around or you do I don't I don't like to move your thing. I don't want to get in the way.

I will soon. Okay. Good evening, U members of council, council president, uh, and the community who are in 10 this evening. A very great and auspicious night this evening. We're going to uh gather to recognize and to swear in uh Corporal Edward Todd. He's been a member a long-standing member of the Norristown Police Department. I I'm new here. However, I've known Ed for a number of years because we've worked together on the Montgomery County Major Incident Response Team. I've got to see him grow in his career and uh it is an absolute honor to be here tonight to recognize him as being sworn in as our next corporal as he takes his first step in his leadership journey with the Nortown Police Department. So, congratulations All right. Good evening, everyone. I'm Judge Hakee Jones, and I'm also honored to uh to swear in one of Nortown's newest corporals. All right, Officer Todd, are you ready to take the oath?

I'll ask you to put place your left hand on the Bible. You can raise your right hand. All right. I'll ask you to repeat after me. I state your name. I do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support, obey, and defend that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America the Constitution of the United States of America the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the Charter of the Municipality of Norsttown, the Charter of the Municipality of Nortown, and that I will enforce the laws of this Commonwealth and I will enforce the laws of this Commonwealth and the ordinances of Narstown. the ordinance. And I will discharge the duties of my office

And I will discharge the duties of my office as a police corporal for the municipality of Narstown. as a police corporal for the municipality of Narstown with honory with honor and fidelity with honor and fidelity. I do further swear I do further swear that I will uphold, obey, and defend that I will uphold, obey, and defend the law without consideration to a person's race the law without consideration to a person's race color color sex sex religious creed religious creed sexual orientation sexual orientation age age national origin national origin ancestry ancestry handicap handicap or disability or disability

congratulations Awesome.

Congratulations. All right, we'll move on to presentations. Oh, and if the family and friends of uh Corporal uh Todd can leave with him if you guys would like to, but feel free to stay if you want.

That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. Hello chief. Hello members of council. I'd like to introduce you governor center local government services and will introduce her team and present the findings of their fire service study that they completed for the municipality. Thank you.

Good evening council president and members of council. I'm here to um introduce myself again and to let you know that the Governor's Center for Local Government Services has a public um safety services program. And through this program, we provide studies at no cost to municipalities, direction and guidance along with implementation of recommendations that you'll find in the report. This again is at no cost to the municipalities. Um, one of our peer um, Scott Little is a fire chief and emergency management coordinator for the Mannheim Township Fire Rescue in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. He is here to present his findings and recommendations regarding the fire services study that you submitted to us um, to have the study completed. And so now he'll present his findings. Thank you. Good evening, uh, council members, fire department leadership, fire department members, and members of the community. As stated, I am Scott Little, the public safety consultant who completed your fire service study. Much of the information and the data presented in this report was gathered through comprehensive processes that included reviewing your written documents, conducting site visits, and holding interviews with municipal leadership, your fire department chief officers, staff across all shifts and ranks, and your volunteer members. The municipality made a commitment to its community

conduct a study that evaluated the current policies and practices and examine how they can align with industry best practices in areas such as resource allocation, operational efficiency, and management oversight. The intent of this report is to provide municipal leaders with the information necessary to make informed decisions regarding public fire protection for the municipality of Narstown. The key areas evaluate in this study that is in front of you, 39 pages, uh looked at funding sources, effective staffing model, fire apparatus and equipment, response times, training and qualifications, fire station locations and the facilities, standard operating procedures and guidelines, and incident response data. But before we move into the six slides that I'll be presenting, I want to take a moment to acknowledge the outstanding work being done by your fire department each and every day. This is evident through their commitment to training, strong labor management relationships, public education initiatives, and the community outreach efforts such as providing free smoke alarms, and delivering safety programs. Their performance is also reflected in their recognition within the public protection class classification program ISO as a class 2 community in Pennsylvania. Out of 2,36 fire departments that are evaluated, Narstown is one of only 27 to achieve class one or two ratings. Additionally, the department has been recognized by the state as a certified swiftwater rescue team, and there is far more to this fire department than simply responding to the calls. Your team shows up every day in meaningful ways to s

serve and support this community. So, with that, we'll get into the uh slides at a 30,000 foot view of the uh study that was presented. We'll look at our study overview and objectives, the current fire service status, the commitment to excellence, and the key recommendations. The purpose was to evaluate opportunities to enhance fire service delivery within Narstown. Those objectives are looking at ways to improve public safety, operational efficiency, being physically responsible, and being community members and engagement. You can see here your current fire service status broken down. Again, these are reflected also in your report. Uh the annual budget, you can see the increase. Our call volume is sustaining there around 1,500. your annual state aid and firefighter relief dollars, which is helpful to offset municipal funds to acquire equipment needed for on the fire apparatus. And we also want to highlight again the training and the training activities that your staff continue to do every day. When we talk about the commitment to excellence, we're breaking down in six key categories. Looking at response times within your community, the national standard benchmark is 90% arrival within that 9 minutes. The current state here in Narstown with the current on duty staffing supplemented by your volunteer members is 4 minutes and 21 seconds. That is your dispatch, your turnout, the travel to the incident location, and the

arrival. When we look at the staffing capacity, we are looking to have a benchmark goal of 17 firefighters on scene within 9 minutes. You can see your current state of your on duty staff with a complement of volunteers. Uh you're getting that average of your own uh staff members, that four to 10 number depending on time of day. Uh but again relying heavily on your mutual aid partners to achieve that 17 onseene firefighter requirement which also then pushes you outside of that arrival for your mutual aid components outside of that 9-minute window. Looking at your apparatus and equipment, we look at again national standards. We understand your current state with your mixed age of apparatus and also your current leadership working on a replacement plan uh that is funded. We also know that is through capital improvement um projections for long-term and again looking at that financial stability to be able to purchase that large cost apparatus. We also are competing with the manufacturing industry with uh backlogs and long procurement u processes which is now four to five years on the lead time to get a fire truck. So again as you get new apparatus your fire department leadership is already anticipating that next round because of that long duration to acquire that apparatus. We look at the training standards again from the uh the uh national industry best practices again as an agency logging over 2,000 training hours. Uh again meeting the intent of ISO with your class 2 rating. Uh your staff's out doing doing the work and proving uh

theirel for when those emergencies occur. When we look at facilities, we're looking at occupational safety, contamination controls. Again, one of your challenges uh in the current state is the fire stations were not designed uh one for the amount of career staff you have and secondly, it was not designed for the larger apparatus you're seeing today. Uh so there's a lot of challenges there that we will talk about on the next slide. And then again sharing again with uh council, working with fire department leadership to have that shared vision and prioritization of public safety for your long range planning. Again, facilities, apparatus, people, which takes us then to the strategic recommendations of the study. There was 11 strategic recommendations. Um number one is the fire station and with the response model. So currently in your system again talking about the increase in maintenance costs per year in the general operating budget for uh maintenance of facilities is recommending to look at making it a one station model for the municipality. I know during our site visits, we looked at multiple locations and I know from Chief O'Donnell that site is uh changing um with that footprint of what the size of that facility needs to be. Uh again with current practices and how development of controlling contamination and the occupational exposures for your your firefighting staff, how things are separated now within fire stations in modern design. Number two, a long-term um plan for the municipalities. Again, looking at that increase in inservice

apparatus and staffing because one, you want again when we look back at that 17 firefighters on scene within 9 minutes uh with your local housing stock. We need to have fast response times, rapid deployment of our resources, reducing the critical time spent waiting for those mutual aid resources. One of the things that's unique about your community and neighboring communities rely heavily on your staff to provide their community with quick response fire service. And we know that through interviews that a lot of your neighboring municipalities rely on the Narstown Fire Department to get there first and get water on the fire. And that's a critical aspect of what we do. So again, that in the same sense that also takes away your resource to go to another community. Uh so looking long range at increasing apparatus and that would come along with the staffing piece and we understand that is a a heavy lift, right? And that's why we talk long-term uh planning in this process. Uh three, recruitment retention. We understand, you know, it's not just a local issue. Uh volunteer recruitment retention is an issue across the nation. Here in Pennsylvania, we are right around 20 to 25,000 volunteers uh remaining serving communities with over 2,800 fire companies. Pennsylvania is the largest uh state in the United States for fire companies. So when you look at that total number, there's not many volunteers uh remaining because of one the amount of the call volumes that have increased in communities and also two the amount of training hours are required to maintain active status which also drives into your career recruitment and retention, right? work life balance schedules and a lot of municipalities as we're seeing across

the Commonwealth are transitioning to combination systems. So you have competing municipalities now for the same individuals uh to staff and work within their fire departments. So that goes to the retention through benefits, salary, and those other things uh with your local uh labor organization to work through for the strong regional partnership. relationships really matter within the industry and again it goes back to the regional training you're doing the regional response plan so regionally that's why we're seeing a lot of times your mutual aid uh partners are receiving Narstown's on duty staff um who are getting there quick and putting uh water on that fire in addition again that partnership with your swift water and flood search rescue program which is used regionally in time of disasters. And number five, the support staff, right? Improving the balance of the workload amongst your fire department members. And it was said repeatedly about the workload that a recommendation is to have a standalone fire marshal who also in the also can have a revenue source to that that budget line and also that position through inspections and programming. And in addition to your leadership staff having an administrative assistant to help across the uh the fire department, not only the chief officers and the assistant chiefs managing the shift. Uh it allows those the assistant chiefs running the shifts um to get back down and and do the do the work with the firefighters and have that leadership engagement where right now they are tasked with doing more of the admin work uh while they're on shift. Six is your labor management. Again, that top- down leadership with internal communication channels uh between

leadership and the union is strong and that's what you want. The collaboration that everybody can have the voice at the table and talk through any of the issues that you have. So again, some of the recommendations are highlighting things that are already occurring here that are good best practices. uh but we want to highlight that as we also look at ways you can increase the efficiency within fire department. Number seven, looking at a quick response service. So right now the there's an opportunity. We know the EMS system is taxed. We know they are busy. We know we also have onduty firefighters that are EMS trained that can help a neighbor. Uh so that's one program that the state department of health offers is for fire trucks to respond on more medical emergencies uh than what they would right now. I know there's some challenges as I talk through this recommendation with your fire department leadership. There is uh some issues at the county level with the 911 center and how those dispatches would be made. Uh but again a recommendation to try and work through uh because that immediate uh care and treatment even from firet truck staff uh can be beneficial for our community members that currently would not be receiving that. Eight is the apparatus replacement. again working through those backlogs of the manufacturers uh creating that long range schedule uh and also forecasting out the financial impact again because we know that four to fiveyear and the the annual increase on fire apparatus you know the next time you look at a ladder truck you're probably 2.7 to3 million. Um so again just having that um conversation with your fire department leadership for that long range uh forecasting and number nine to to finish out the recommendations is a reserve

unit. Right now you have one uh ladder truck in service. So when that goes down the staff is going on another fire truck. So you don't have a an aerial device as a backup which would be very helpful in your community to have a reserve unit um so that you again don't have that uninterrupted emergency response because once your ladder truck goes out of service for maintenance, you're relying on your mutual aid partners, right? Again, we talk about increased response times coming into the community uh that can obviously uh have a negative impact. So again, that highlights uh the 11 strategic recommendations, consolidating a couple of them to give you the nine there on the slide. And again, in summary, your your foundation, right, the strong relationship and shared values is solid within your fire department leadership, the union, and the volunteers working together. We know challenges do exist. We know the volunteer decline as we talked about. We understand relying on mutual aid. That's a give and take. And we also know the financial impact on the community and as members of council for you to prioritize the public safety recommendations here. And ultimately at the end, it's about the community. And we know the Narstown Fire Department mission statement to protect lives and property through prevention, education, preparedness, and response. And I think your team here at the Narstown Fire Department does just that. So, council pending any uh questions or comments?

Thank you, council. Any questions or comments? Nope. Well, uh, thank you for your presentation. I knew that our fire department was great, but I know we were probably the best in Pennsylvania. So, Chief Lockard, that's awesome to hear. And David,

I'm sorry. I I do have a question. It's it's basically on the the the topic of um purchasing apparatus. So, like in the report, was there any um special attention like Norristown has a lot of the streets have a very small footprint with the consolidation of the manufacturers of fire equipment? Is it become harder to to source? Do we need to plan for longer lead times for, you know, uh, firet trucks that can handle like our narrow streets? You know, because we're also going to begin, you know, if we want to keep the character of the town when we're thinking about our, uh, our longer term planning, are we just adding more um are we making it more difficult um, by the nature of the the way our town is compared to like suburban streets, you know, like is it we have to anticipate longer lead times to get suitable equipment for this town versus others? Yeah, the the lead times across all the the manufacturers for fire apparatus are around the same time right now. So for a pumper or a ladder truck, it's four to five years. Uh because of the customization is part of the issue that they're seeing uh in the manufacturing side of things. Your community obviously is switching and should have a delivery soon of the tractor drawn aerial device which is the tiller which can get into those tight corners and those streets better and alleyways u more so than the the single axle or dual axle because it doesn't have the the bend in the middle like you will have. So, your fire department did look at that and is improving on aerial uh complement here in the community by going to the apparatus purchasing that you did. Uh the next thing would be the pumper side. You can get smaller urban um pumpers that are 27 28 foot long. Uh which again will help in those uh tight narrow areas where in suburban you're looking at more of a 32 to 34 foot fire apparatus. Yeah. And I just comment because, you know, if we want to start building

higher in certain parts of town, that's something that we have to plan. Okay. Counciloman Griffin. Um, I had a question. So, you stated we have one ladder truck. Is it one ladder? So, how I guess a community our size, how many do they tend to have? Is it one, two? Yeah. Part of your ISO rating for that class two really where you can score additional points in that rating which can help on the insurance premiums. That's you want to have your your better ISO score.

Um recommends having a reserve for your inservice apparatus. Okay. So that's where that recommendation drives from. Okay. Thank you. And that can also be a regional SharePoint. And I know Chief O'Donnell and some of the neighboring communities have talked about entering into a a backup aerial ladder truck that could be regionally used, right? So, we're thinking outside the box of not just always having our own to duplicate equipment, but we can share that regional resource. You're welcome. M Councilwoman Robinson.

Uh thank you. Um and um also a strong celebration to our fire department for all the excellence that they do. It was interesting to see that many of the recommendations that you said were already long-standing things that were happening within this community. So definitely appreciate that. I just had a question in regards to the recommendations. Just for clarity, when you're uh in your numbering of them one through nine, does that offer for you any priority um around those particular recommendations? Is it one through 11 in the sense that one being the of any value? Right? Is there any any value to how they're how they're listed? And I also was just wondering if you had any recommendations in regards to the sequencing of any of these particular um recommendations like it would be great to do one and seven at the same time versus something like that.

Yeah, I actually did not prioritize um we know through the conversations through municipal leadership and also fire leadership knowing about the the potential for the fire station uh build is a high priority. So, we knew that one, but they're not listed in a particular recommendation order for prioritization. Um, thank you. Now, I just wanted to make sure that I was clear that there is not a priority order, but it makes sense that number one is a a priority. And in regards to sequencing, you bundled some of them together. I do wonder is that because they're complimentary, like they work hand inand uh and is there any others that you would call out to that same kind of method?

Yep. So, that would be like the creation of the fire marshall standalone. right now your your deputy fire chief do hats his role in deputy chief but then also your fire marshal for inspections and things. So again that could be a standalone position and I added that administrative so that support staff uh combining those um again because that fire marshall piece can be a costneutral in the budget for the revenue side of having that fire marshall on the street doing inspections um and expanding that program. Thank you so much. Thank you. Any other questions? All right. Thank you.

Yep. Thank you. Thank you. So, finally, I'd like to thank Chief O'Donnell. He was my point of contact through this duration of the project and he worked very well with our peer and with myself. He was cooperative and timely and I thank him for uh everything that he did throughout the project. Should you have any further questions once we leave, please contact me directly or certainly go through Chief O'Donnell and he'll reach out to me and we'd be happy to address any further questions you may have. Okay.

Thank you. All right. So, we're going to go on to police here with resolution 26-40. Establish remove handicap parking spaces or signs. Evening, Mr. President, members of council.

Forgive me. I just got a cramp back there a couple minutes ago. I had to get up and leave, get some water. Uh before you this evening is uh really some housekeeping issues. This is our um as you know each year municipal council the bureau receives requests for handicapped parking permits uh and uh we receive them we review them and then we forward them on uh if they're approved for approval. So today we have um the net addition of 16 handicap spaces throughout the municipality. But as we also add new spots, we also take ones away that are no longer needed because they had renewed each year. So we're going to be taking away two. So, we're going to have a net increase of 14 spots uh as a result of your vote this evening. Um the applications have been reviewed. They meet the required u necessities for approval and my recommendation is for you to approve the additional spots and the removal of the spots as outlined in the resolution. Council, any questions? Seeing none, do I have a motion to pass resolution 26-40 to establish remove handicap parking spaces?

So moved. Madam Secretary, William McCoy, I dear Robinson, I Coulson, hi. Jasmine Griffin. Hi, David McMahon. Hi, Dustin Queen. I beat I the eyes have it. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Good job.

Uh, move it. Moving on to public works resolution number 26-39 request for municipal council to approve the resident initiated traffic calming program policy. I take that back. Uh we are going to move on to administration. Uh request for a motion or request motion for municipal council to approve change order in the amount of $60,700 to Spone Ranch for Pulley Park project.

All right. Hello council.

Hello Son. All right. So, um the Spone Ranch, the poly park project is for our skate park. Um this is part of the arper project. Um what we had there, it went through the plans are being recorded. We're at the point now where construction and actually close to starting which could actually start this month. Um based on the plans, um they adjusted the pricing that was there um compared to the previous pricing that was provided. So, for example, it went from a 246,000 um cost to a 306,700 cost, which is approximately an increase of $60,700. Um that increase was due to the rising labor cost from the previous quote along with the uh the increase in material costs as well as additional dirt hauling that wasn't expected previously when it was originally quoted in 2025. Um for this project, what we're looking at is an increase to the contract to Spone Ranch um to with this change order to be from 1 million to 1,60,700, which is roughly a 6.7% increase um which is below the 15% um change order uh requirement, but we wanted to bring it to your attention anyway. Um the funds that we have, we already have it covered under contingency that was already approved via ARPA, so we're not having to reclassify. There's no additional changes to the actual budget. We just wanted to bring attention to this actual change order um before giving the go-ahhead to proceed.

Thank you. You're welcome. Uh council, any questions or comments? Um so you said that it the uh construction could start this month. That's the expectation. Yes. Awesome. Um my other question, I don't I feel like I asked this before, but I'm not sure. Like when this is all done and over with, I know I did some research a long time ago, so I don't remember the name, but there was a skateboarder from Narstown that is famous. Is there a possible way that people can reach out to him to see if he could like be at the opening Holy Park or something like that? Definitely see about that. Yeah, I know he's involved in the actual initiation of this project. Um I personally haven't had conversation with him, but I think that'd be a great idea, especially like the like ribbon cutting and so forth.

Thank you. Just thought about that. All right. Uh so with that being said, council, do I have a motion uh to uh to excuse me to approve the change order in the amount of $60,700 for the SP Ranch Poly Park project? So move. Second, Madam Secretary. William McCoy. I Robinson. Hi. All Coulson. Hi. Jasmine Griffin. Hi. David McMahon. Hi. Dustin Queen. Hi. Rashad Bates. Hi. The eyes have it. Thank you council.

Thank you. Okay, now we're back on track. All right, so we move on to public works now. Uh resolution 26-39 request for municipal council to approve the resident initiated traffic calming uh program policy.

Hello council again. So uh so what we have with this policy um to give some feedback on here um this is something that we've you brought forward before um this is something that has been worked on for quite some time um stemming all the way back to the previous public works um director as well as with the previous administrator. Um what we were looking to do with this policy was essentially to make it more streamlined to make it more understandable and make it more efficient. So it's a little easier for residents to actually move forward with the the different type of calming policies and us as well as as a municipality. Um so there's a couple different things that were introduced within this change um to make sure that what we're looking at these different streets were all being judged on the same standard um in the same kind of um review process essentially and there's a way to make it more accountable essentially. Council, any questions, comments?

Councilman McMahon. Yes. Um, in in section seven where initiating a request, um, the petition uh is circulated where we require the signatures of 50% of affected property owners. Um, had there been consideration for that to just be residents. Um, we're a 60% tenant community. um if many property owners don't live where the properties are and aren't experiencing the day-to-day conditions uh for this. Um so if it's not in violation of our charter in some way, I I would hope that we could um maybe change that.

Right. So I know um one of the things that because that was one of the things that changed as well um in the previous policy was at 75% that of the homeowners within that street needed to do it. that was reduced to 50% to make it more realistic for residents to actually get a a traffic common study done. Um, one of the things with that as well, I do know there was discussions around whether it be property owner versus resident and some of the conversation with it was that some of these might be rental um properties and a tenant might be there for let's say a month or two and leave if they created a traffic common but then

the new residents that move in weren't in support of it. that can kind of throw things in in arrive there. But I do know that conversation was had um weighing the different options between property owner and resident and I think it fell within property own because they're more long-term per se than the actual tenant might be. Okay. But the 50% is to initiate the study and then when at the implementation then we're back to 75% of the specifically affected properties.

That is correct. So what we're looking at which which is is different is that previously there was 75% of the entire block had to give their support for it. What this does now it reduces it to 50% for the common study to actually be done. When it comes to that implementation um essentially let's say there's a speed bump that's but being installed the houses that's going to be directly in front of that speed bump. So let's say there's four houses affected by it. Okay. 75% of the the houses actually affected by the installation would have to give the approval for that. So, for example, um someone at the end of the block might not necessarily be affected by that speed bump, but that could introduce noise um for the cars traveling on the block, for example, and those particular residents need to give their their approval for that. So, we want to give it to where um make it easier for that block to start the study, but then give still give some kind of,

you know, leeway for the actual owners that would be affected. Okay. It's still a bit of a stumbling block for me, you know, because again, it's, you know, we're relying on the approval of people who are not necessarily experiencing the conditions that this is meaning to address. Um, I I I'll just leave. Okay. Counciloman Coulson,

I have a question. Um, is there an appeal process? So, if an application is denied, do they do residents have an opportunity to appeal it? And are we going are we backdating? So, I know there's been several applications submitted that have been denied or were they able to follow that appeal process or do they have to start all over again?

Um, so looking at the the um policy, there isn't room for an appeal per se, but there is uh room for re-re, for example, something significantly changes. So, for example, let's say it was recently denied, but new development happened in the area which changed the the uh scope of what was already there. So, we might see more vehicles passing, we might see other things. Um, that might amplify some of the issues that was already addressed previously where it might not have factored in, but now it's worth a re-review. Um, so that is there. Um, for items that were declined or even the ones that were um approved, there's a three-year window to where they can be re-reviewed again.

Got it. Okay. Were there any applications that were ever approved or I'm not familiar with the the previous, but it was a very difficult Yeah, the process was very um convoluted and it was a bit big. So that's where this kind of came into play to actually make it more realistic for it to try policies actually being implemented. Got it. Thank you.

Councilman Robinson, thank you for your work and for the team uh's work on this and trying to clarify the process. I was wondering if you could speak to if there was any uh um fiscal responsibility or fiduciary responsibility on residents or the municipality in filing an application for this in the process of implementation. Uh as well as who covers the costs in the world that something is uh is approved and then installed.

I'm not familiar for the initiating piece of it. I think that's something we would probably have to put in within the fee schedule or something along those lines. Um when it comes to the actual costs uh so for example let's say that the review process is done um let's say there's going to be the installation of a speed bump or let's say a curb installation expansion or whatever it needs to be done I don't believe that's getting fed to the resident but is part of like our funding there is different funding um avenues so for example it could be something covered under CIP it could be covered under something via donations grants and so forth so there's different ways to fund the actual um implementation. It wouldn't be something that would be passed, you know, for example, let's say, hey, this is

$20,000 residents. You have to pay. No, it wouldn't be a to that to that point. Thank you. I just think that's really a good point of clarity uh in a process like this just so that people can understand what the ask of them or for them is. And just so that I'm understanding, you said that then in the application this is something that will be added to the fee schedule. Is that correct? entertain during the budget season or even we'll start the discussions. We'll make sure that it's something that we consider and it has it would have to come before council before we make the implementation recommendation because there's a cost and it's our street. So we understand that

definitely will make sure that council is aware of that prior to the implementation but these are discussions that will continue since I think uh three of us the engineers and all of us are kind of coming on board on this policy. It was implement actually it was implemented in 2023 nothing occurred. So I think it's commendable for them to have actually looked at it again and seen what barriers were there

trying to make this move forward. So, at the very least, we'll start the studies and then we can come back and let you know, hey, it appears that this, that neighborhood, whatever the case is, they're ready. But then we'll look at the fiscal implications and let you know where we can actually address those needs. Uh, and thank you for that. Just so that I'm also clear, the vote tonight is to approve the policy. If the policy then goes into effect, how soon can people begin to apply for the studies? I just say immediately. a council approves. Okay. And so under that same understanding with them applying immediately, is there a cost to residents to apply at this time? Not at the moment. Not in this policy. Thank you. Thank you for asking.

Councilwoman Griffin,

um, thank you. I just want to go back to what you did is someone else. Oh, I just want to go back to what you said about the property owners. Um because you said that the concern was some tenants are there for only a short amount of time and think and I understand that but I think it's a I think it's weird that we're prioritizing the property owners that don't live here over a resident because a property owner doesn't necessarily mean like my mother's a property owner and she lives here but like an LLC yes they own a property but they technically reside in this area. They could be residing in New York or even another country which we've seen. So I just is there a way for it to go down to a resident in some way? I just think it's a little weird to prioritize especially because houses can sell too and so you could you could sell your house in the next couple months while this is going into effect. there's no guarantee that even the person that you sell your house to is going to be okay with this the same as you're saying with like a tenant. So, I just feel like there should be a way for I don't know if it appeal or something um in this process. Have you guys just looked into those outcomes or possibilities?

I could tell you what you're saying is exactly the kind of debates we were having as well. Um, that's one of the things that you the previous administrator and so forth were actually talking through and trying to pose those scenarios, right? Because you might have tenants who've been here 30 plus years within the same property. You might have property owners who are switching out every once in every two years kind of coming in and flipping them. Um, but again, likewise, it's it's going to vary block by block where it kind of changes and those things happen. Um I think what it came down to was trying to figure out um from a standard kind of point of view of what we do existing today. For example, when it comes to like cold ordinances and so forth, who would be receiving the violation would be the property owner. Um so I think that's where the some of the logic kind of fell more into um it would be the property owner there. But I think that it is something worth having that conversation, right? If we have situations where, you know, the residents aren't um primarily actual property owners, but actually the tenants, I do think that's something where we can look at more enhancements to the actual policy, but this is more for or just a step to move it forward than where it was at before.

You're welcome. And I'm sorry, I just want to go back to um so if an application was already submitted by a constituent, right, or a block and it was denied, right? Um, now do they have the option to reapply or once it's denied they that's it? I would say it's significant enough in as far as change that it would be worth value for them to actually reapply and be considered under new this new policy. I think so they do have that option then to reapply. Makes sense. I might be overstepping on my part but um yes they have an opportunity to reapply and let's keep in mind that there are also criterion standards the engineer

would have to do the study is critical.

Uh so that puts position of I may want a speed bump and yet it may not really qualify qualify. So in that case I don't know why it was denied before but that might fall in that l but maybe the issues that changed the time they submitted may have changed and now something has changed drastically new developments has come in or there's more feeding of cars circumstances changed uh that's why we are now we can reapply we can take a look at it again and make sure we go through the technical criterion our engineers are here if is there any techical questions pertaining to any type of calming uh issues that need to be addressed by technical end of it. So it's not really straightforward. I want to bump I want

you have to go through that study and then dare right and to to James point for that too. For example, let's say that the decline was due to them not having 75% of the signatures. Now that it's 50%, then it makes sense that could fall within that range. But then to like to Jane's point, if the the decline was due to engineering review and like for example, let's say within that block we could not do anything based on the the lane structure, the speed limits, the traffic study was already done. If that didn't significantly change, then it still will end up probably being declined. But that's something that it is case by case really.

Well, guess Oh, go ahead, David. Am I am I able to propose an amendment to this to an ordinance? It's not an ordinance. It's a resolution. So, sure. It's a resolution. Uh, so there would have to be a motion to amend the resolution, a vote to amend the resolution, see if that passes or not, and then you would vote on the policy. If it fails, then you go forward on that. Yeah. I I I would wanted to make it

as part mess up your part that's all. Okay. Um, with uh what colleagues here are saying, uh, so with the renters and the owners, what power does council have, can you like, you know, we see these streets, we hear the issues from the people actually live here. Do we have anything that we can do to override that and say, "Hey, we want traffic calming policy." Like for me on Selma Street, I want something there, but no one's responding or no one actually wants it, but we know it's an actual issue. has the ability. This is just a resident driven process, but a council member could always raise that and do it that way. It happens all the time. Yes, that's been happening. Okay, then.

Thank you. And then David, go ahead. Oh, excuse me.

Because I just want to make sure I understand. because essentially there's the 50% um threshold to basically initiate the study which is which is what we're talking about. Um so I would just propose that um the study should be initiated by the people um uh experiencing the circumstances. So my proposal would be that the 50 50% of the residents in the affected area can initiate the study for the feasibility or whatever of um a traffic calming solution versus 50% of property owners. That would be my that would be my amendment. It doesn't predict the outcome. It's not like a g you know that kind of thing. It's to initiate the study. So when you say residents, that's everybody in the household or is that the head of the household or

when you say residents? Yeah. Like if you're 18, you're a resident. Well, I guess you're a resident any age you're living there. I think the policy covers that part kind of it too. It it'll be one signature from that house that that property. So for example, if it does have residence or let's say it's a duplex and it has multiple um tenants, just one person within that household for example. But in that situation, um, but when it comes to property owners, you know, if there's multiple property owners, there's just one property owners whose signature we would need for that property. And before we do that, what was there a reason behind you guys saying that um, property owners versus residents? Is there a reason?

I think there was a debate between the two and really what it came down to is that the property owner might be more long-term than a tenant would be in that property. So, when you're looking at a uh change that might be there for three years plus, um it made more sense to lean towards the property owner. And again, going back to when you look at like the the code and violations and stuff, you would be looking at the property owner versus the actual tenant, right? And just one question, I hope nobody asked this. Okay, they can vote it in. Can if new residents come in or can they vote it out? Uh so there's a three-year review period for so for example after three years they can bring it back to say hey we don't want this speed hump anymore we want to get rid of it and that will begin the process for that

now do we know what the cost is that now we're getting into like only reason I'm saying that because residents do come and they do go and they can change what's what would that cost be to us putting it in taking it out yeah I don't think we know for example but that's one of the things James that we would have to look at to actually factor into like you still got to hire somebody to take that Yeah, I hear what you're saying. There many factors that get into the costage and that comes back again to the engineers. Okay. Once the engineers have taken a look at it, they know what is required and they will give us a quote and we will share that information with council. Okay. And and one other question if they take it out where does it go? Do do we store it? Do we own it because we bought it? Are we leasing it? Like

I think it I think it depends on what was implemented as well. Um because there are different types of um traffic common things we can put up. For example, it could be signage. It could be speed bumps. It could be um curb extensions. It really depends on what it is. For example, a curb extension that would be that's not something we can kind of store that we have to just change physically, but it depends on what it is. Some are permanent correct improvements. Some movable, right? Because we see some of them around where they can actually be movable. Correct.

So it sounds like we got various with the event. So that's part of the the actual engineer study that would be there. So they will study the um one to make sure it actually qualifies in that area to um looking at like the the average traffic daily traffic. They'll be looking at the 85th percentile for speed. Like what is the 85th percentile of a vehicle traveling? For example, if it's a 25 mile speed limit and the complaint is that everyone's speeding, right? It has to meet that threshold, right? So there's different things that'll be there. But then also within that um part of the engineering study would be like hey based on this location this is what's recommended to address the the um the issue.

Right now here's one thing that I think might happen a lot is what if a couple people want it and they can't get no one else to respond. Do we ever think of hey if these people want no one's responding they get it or they don't get it? So that's the issue when I think council can step in. That's when they go to the individual council member and say, "We've tried. We bothered these people a million times. We're not getting any response. Can you please look at it?" And that could be so then we can step in if we pick residents or if we just pick property owners safety issues, right?

But what this does, this policy puts some guidelines in place because I'm sure you get questions all the time. You say, "Hey, we appreciate this, but we have a policy in place. Can you try this? process. So, it gives you certain screening level before you take that next step. The reason I asked the cost, I can see almost every single street want this cuz we got kids everywhere. That's why I want to know cuz we're going to be putting these things in every street almost. That's why I wonder how much it's going to cost because it's going to cost us a lot of money. Exactly. Some may not qualify. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And we bet that's why some will probably deny. And I know we definitely got to get that out. Hey, here's the reason why your street don't qualify, right? Stuff like that. So, okay.

Do I just um and you may not know this, um do you have any um like how many applications were submitted? Do you know like just within the year with the 75%? Um no, a lot. Yeah. Okay. If you if you know Yeah. All right. I'll check the public and let me Okay.

Uh and I just had another question about cost. I'm just trying to understand some of the dynamics uh particularly in relationship to Penoni. Uh I know that this will then take on uh at least some task for of yours to do the study. Is this something that's already a part of our dedicated services with you? Would this be a an increase of your frequency of work? How and when will you bill us for studies? And what does your capacity look like of like what are you imagining we'll do x amount of studies by around like where is this cycling into your workload?

Start. Well, I was just saying we would um once they hit that threshold, then we would be, you know, requested by the municipality to do these studies. Uh as far as what's involved, I have a he's a colleague Mark Bickerton with Penoni. He's dealt with these um policies in several municipalities. So, he can answer any uh like the technical questions doing the studies and all. And I guess you want to get into the costs of that though. Yes. like what how when it's studying.

So we would just be basing it based on our basically our hourly rate through the municipality and that's how we would get paid and that's what the cost would be and do you want an actual uh like how long like would it take or and what that cost a little bit of some but I think in framing this it's just helpful to know what impact budgetarily this will have and if this is going in effect immediately right a you know you could be called a studies pretty early so I'm just councilwoman wants to know if it's a project base or rather if it's the usual price that you do for work for the north um you know

oh yeah and it would just be the usual work we have a we have a an agreement with the muny we'd be sticking with what our municipal uh fees are it wouldn't be an increase we wouldn't be um increasing our cost for a special study like you wouldn't be increasing your cost by project or hour but no it would be an added increase in that this is not something we had planned to be outsourcing these these particular studies previously. That's what I understand.

Yeah. So, we wouldn't for the new year, you know, maybe we wouldn't be able to budget and say how many studies we would be able to do for that year. It would just be on a case- by case basis and we would be you know um you know hired under the municipalities um direction to do these studies at the rate that we agreed to for that year. I'm just maybe we could use the standard. When Thomas sent them to you, how did y'all bill us? That way it right. I'm sorry. Could you When Thomas sent you these applications, how did you bill us? I guess that might for like a land development application and all or uh for the common

Oh, for a traffic study. I I am not the traffic engineer. How would you typically do that in other mal it would be the same thing for the rate? This is actually particularly for this this particular type of uh project not just general traffic study. So so again it would just be based on what we agreed upon in the agreement for the municipality of at the rate and that that's what you kind of did in the past or you're not sure? Yes. Yeah. We don't we don't increase our rates. We h we have a an agreed rate with the municipality and that's what we bill at. So, Councilman, what I can do is I will dig in a little further, okay?

And I can send you the information of what happened before and how it was. That'll give us an idea what how to to add to that. I don't know. I don't know if Ted can answer historically what it was before, but he's answering based on standard practice for the municipalities. Essentially, when you do the study, this is what it would be built at. So, he doesn't believe it'll be different handled differently here. historic even historically um because that's the standard of what they would do. I think that's where that was going. Yeah,

I can and I can add one one more thing too. So, one one of the um you know, part of your policy provides uh framework for, you know, making a data driven decision, right? We don't want to just say, you know, everyone's saying they're speeding here, let's go drop a speed bump in. U we want to have crash data um and speed data. Those can be expensive, too. And so, we do work with the police departments. uh they can help us pull the crash studies. Um I don't know if your police department has the data collection equipment, but um a lot of our other clients do. That would be an option. Um but there are ways to, you know, economize the data collection, which is, you know, an expensive part of it. Once we have the data, processing it and making a recommendation, you know, kind of goes pretty naturally.

I'm going to dig in a little further and give you the information. Thank you. I imagine this will be a highly used resource. So, it would be nice to get a gauge of what we potentially could expect.

Are there any other questions? So, overall before I go, David can make his amendment to that and we can still if we all agree to that that we that's okay to do. We've been with all that's being said then nothing is being charged extra. Okay. You like me to make it or you got it? Yeah. The amendment I would propose that it be 50% of the residents experiencing the conditions can initiate the study. Okay. Second that amendment and I second it. Okay. And then and then Oh. Okay. Madam Secretary, can have a roll call, please? Yes. McCoy. I. Madira Robinson. No. Natalie Coulson.

No. Jasmine Griffin. Hi. David McMahon. Hi. Dustin Queen. Um I member Rashad Bates. I to two. All right. I have it. Oh yes. Wait.

Hold on. One one second. Before you make the change to the policy, if we are going to make a change uh for it not to be property owner but to be resident, I mean I would recommend it being property owner and or residents because then you might be put in a situation where the um the property owners are saying, "Hey, we want this change, but the residents need to do it and my tenants aren't in support." So, it might bumble up there. So, I think if you leave it to a andor, it might give more room for you guys to make a decision without getting stuck. That's the only thing I would recommend.

If I may offer counsel, I think that it's helpful for it to be property owners in this first step to initiation. we have the ability to step in and resource and help residents who cannot make that threshold and to supersede those judgments. But I do think by making it a little muddy in the first steps, I think it makes it even more complicated and harder to explain. These are beginning steps of the initiated by the resident outline. But as council, you have a superseding power that allows you if they cannot get that on board or if they're experiencing that can't get their property owner involved, then you have the ability to step in and resource and help them and move this process forward. But for their initiating space, I think it's helpful for it to be a very clear process. Okay. person.

I I personally believe that we should do the property owners and or residents just for this because residents are complaining. We're having property owner issues like we have people complaining at the zoning. We have people coming here. Like I think if in this situation in this moment I understand what you're saying, Councilwoman Robinson, and I do I would agree if it wasn't the situation we're currently in. And I think the situation we're currently in is a little more volatile when it comes to property owners. And I think we need to I do like your suggestion of and or residents.

If if I could add, I think is right on point. It will be muddy. Uh we do have a very transient community. for the neighborhoods that you're going to get where the residents uh will actually change within three or four months and we have no clue where which direction we're going to take. So just I'll just urge council to be careful about that. Um giving that type of weight on the residents that's just the caution I would put out there. And another precaution to be concerned about that as well is that it might be easier to verify the property owner versus the tenant that's in the property. It might be harder to verify who's actually living in the property. So, that's something to factor as well.

I I I would actually say it's very hard for a resident uh who's trying to initiate this to actually find property owners. That could be the case as well. That's I mean I' I've heard that first time. We get the final say. Yeah. So we always could revert back to us. So if we do run into that, which we maybe should have a time frame, then it falls to us and we can make that decision. So we can support our residents in that aspect, which I think we will do.

I hope that helps with that concern. Yeah. So right now you have uh a resolution that's been amended just taking out property owners and putting in residents in the place of property owners. So the question is do you want andor resident andor property owners? Someone want to make a motion to amend the resolution again to reflect that or not? That's what I'm trying to say.

I think it should I think it's going to be a lot of work for Okay. So, all right. So, question. So, you think it's a property owner. So, then I guess if they don't get 50% of the property owners then then it comes to us but we would need 50% of the constituents to come to us. No, that is for their initiation. We are able to address it and ask for ask for Okay. Gotcha. Okay. I agree with that. Okay. This is just for Yeah. This is just for the study to be initiated. This isn't for to be put in. This is for the study to be initiated. Right. Yeah. So, I guess so now I'm understanding like the issue.

Yeah. If they do run into it. So, yeah. So, I I see what you're saying. So if it goes to the property owners, property owners don't respond or however they don't residents come to us, then we can supersede the resident the property owners and say, "Hey, we want the traffic calming study to happen regardless, right? So okay, so I guess it keeps it safer, easier." Okay, because I did like the idea of residents first, but since we can supersede and they can just come to us, then we'll just But we can do that. Um Okay. Okay. You already Mr. President, you already you already changed the policy. You already changed what's on the floor here. Correct.

You already voted to take out property owner and put in res. You could do a couple of things. You can add in property owner. Council McMahon made a motion to add property owner back in andor, right? You could table this. You can go back to property owner, but right now what you have in front of you, it is a resident. That's it. Because you already voted to change the resolution. You haven't voted to formally adopt the policy yet, but you voted to change the language in the resolution. Just letting you know where you are procedurally. That's helpful.

All right. So, council, what are we going to do here? Um, I would like to make a motion to table it because I feel like there's so many questions. I feel like there's a lot that's coming to light as we continue to talk about it. I think we need to have a further conversation before doing this. So, I would like to move to table this.

Any seconds? Second, Madam Secretary? Yes. William McCoy. Hi. Azira Robinson. Hi. Alley Coulson. No. Jasmine Griffin. Hi. David McMahon. Hi. Dustin Queen. Hi. Rashad Bates. No. Okay. So, four to three. That passes with four, right? Four people say it was four yeses.

It was four yeses, right? Yeah. I have a question for you. So, based on what the constituents have said to us thus far, is there any record on like the complaints, the comments and concerns around this like residents and uh property owners? Is there a way that we can see what has been said and what hasn't?

I can we can try to uh to restate what um Councilman McCoy was saying. was asking if there was a record um based on the complaints and stuff that we have received so far um so they can actually kind of get a gauge of what we have been getting. Um I would have to touch back with uh public works to see and again this has started back with the previous um public works director so I'm not sure what the record keeping was but we can touch base with our public works department to see if there is anything on on record. I appreciate that. You're welcome. So the motion is tabled. Uh let me make sure this okay two agendas. Uh do I have a motion to adjurnn?

Second. All in favor?