Municipal Council - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the order, excuse me, to the Nartown Municipality Council meeting of Tuesday, February 3rd of 2026. Can I have a moment of silence and a pledge of allegiance? [clears throat] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Madam Secretary, can we have a roll call, please? William McCoy, present. Adira Robinson, here. Natalie Coulson, here. Jasmine Griffin here. David McMahon here. Dustin Queen. Rashad Bates

here. Council, do I have a motion to approve last meeting's minutes? So move. Second. All in favor?

All right. Uh, we did not have an executive session tonight. And Councilman Queen is not here today. He's enjoying himself on the beach. So, I will do our announcements. So, first announcement here. We have Montgomery County presents Black History Month 2026, celebrating 100 years of Black History. There are virtual presentations from 12:00 p.m. to 1 or 1:30 p.m. on February 4th by the Pottstown NAACP. February 11th by the Charles Blocks and Afro Afroamerican Collection and February 18th Historical Society of Montgomery County. Um, there's also inerson programming from February on February 25th, 2026 from 11:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Lunch will be provided. Also, we have a announcement for um what we can do here with the Advance Center for Hypnosis. Uh, so the Vance Center is on 221216 Cherry Street in Narstown, PA. It's professional hypnosis services to help quit smoking, weight loss, stress management, overcoming fears, and public speaking. There are also um classes to learn drone and aviation programs. There's also photography and podcasting course. Uh they also have a um a small room in there that children and adults can use. And there's also a music program there. And I think that is all the announcements I have for now. And Councilman Robinson, do you have an announcement?

Oh, go ahead, Mr. McMahon. Go ahead.

Um, so I'll be holding my next town hall meeting. I'll be holding my next uh town hall meeting uh this coming Thursday um at the the library. Um it will So that's February 5th. That'll be from 6:00 to 8:00. Um, in addition to the usual um sort of uh public comment and conversation part, there will be a a presentation uh by library staff about the renovations and um future programming that might go on once the renovations are complete. Um, and that's going to be something uh every month. It'll be the Thursday after every first council meeting. Um, and I'll go throughout the discs districts over the course of the year. So, just look for the change of venue, but it'll always be that time of the month. Thank you. and Councilwoman Robinson.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Happy Black History Month. Uh I just wanted to quickly make an announcement. Uh in addition to being a council person here, I have the distinct pleasure of working full-time in this community. Uh and my the organization that I have the pleasure of serving with is Theater Horizon here in Narstown. It is a professional producing theater in this community. It's award-winning and nationally recognized. And I'm excited to say that a lot of our programming while we do many professional endeavors, we like to create pathways. And so a production that we have coming up is called XOXO, Monco's Variety Show. It comes to stage February 11th, and it runs through the 22nd. It is a show that we built, designed, and created specifically with the Montgomery County. And within McGomery County, as you know, I'm a champion for Narstown. So the predominant of the cast is from Narstown. They are not only contributors, but they are paid cast members. and they are the ones that wrote and created this show. I would love for you guys to be there in support of them and be in the audience. Uh don't worry about ticket costs. We have so many accessible ways to engage. There are pay what you can uh nights. There are student and senior and industry discounts. There is also a plethora of discount codes. And if none of those match and you definitely need a free 99, come see me. You will be my special guest. I will give you tickets to come see. I would love to pack the place out for our community, for the members that work so diligently. They're your friends. They're your neighbors. They are your colleagues. And they they're often right here in this room with us. So if you have time, I encourage you to join us at Theater Horizon at some point between February 11th and the 22nd. And also just a shout out, a lot of our work is also in support of those adults and children on the autism spectrum. We have a regular set of classes for them. And we were allowed we were able to merge these two things together. So, our autism drama students will be the opening prologue of the show on February 14th. So, on February 14th, we will have a family-friendly, sensory friendly performance of the show that will feature students from our autism drama

program and what they are contributing to the creation of this show and this work. Thank you for your time. I know that was a lot. I'll have more information. You also can reach out to me and I can send you to our website. But I just wanted to share that this is happening in your community right in your backyard and it's for you but also this now this creation is also by you. So we're excited hope to see you. Council any other announcements? [clears throat] Councilwoman Griffin.

So I will be having uh my first town hall on February 12th. So was that next week? Yeah, next Thursday at the George Washington Carver Community Center. Um it'll be from 6:30 to 7:30. It'll pretty much just be a time for you to come out, get information, ask questions. Um, I'll answer everything to the best of my ability. Anything I can't answer, I'm going to make sure to get information to you. Um, so yeah, I hope to see everyone there.

Okay, and that's all the announcements. All right, Administrator Leonard, any responses to questions from last meeting? Yes, we have one question and that's from Miss Tiffany Todd in reference to uh asking a question having all the other meetings, public meetings, the committee meetings and commission meetings to be recorded. Uh we are in the process of working on that now. We've already started with uh the harb has been recorded. So we're rolling them out slowly um each board meeting one by one so we can make sure we get out all the kinks and everything. So that is taking place so all the meetings will be recorded. Uh and there is some of the smaller meetings that don't require the council chamber. We need to work on our technology in the smaller conference rooms in order to set up the video so they can be recorded as well. So, for the public and for council, all meetings will be recorded. Um, and we're working on it one by one. All right.

Thank you.

And from there, we're going to go into we were going to have just an update of the snow, uh, where we're at during the snow storm and currently where we're at and our position we're in now. So, at this time, I'm ask George uh Naves to come up and he's going to give a an update on again where we started with the storm, but also where we currently at today. Good evening. My name is George, superintendent public works. I've been working for municipal for 34 years. Before I get started, I want to thank everyone in the EOC. Uh this was a total team effort. All my colleagues back here. Uh we worked around the clock shifts for three days almost. And uh without the help of Chief O'Donnell, Mr. Lightner, Danielle Adams, Leah in the ELC. We couldn't have done what we did. So, let me start by saying this was the biggest storm that we've had in the last 10 years. Over 13 ines we got. We started out with a brining operation. For the brining operation, we used approximately 4,000 gallons of brine. We make our own brine right here. We have a brine machine um that we purchased last year. Mr. Leonard got it for us. Uh, we make approximately 600 gallons in 15 minutes. Before that, we it was taking us probably like a day and a half to make that 600 gallons. And we were stripping and scratching to get 250 gallon tanks to put it on the truck. Rob, the mechanic, and Mike rigged up a system. It worked, but it was very inadequate. So, the system we have now, like I said, we have a 30,000galon holding tank. People were calling us, other townships were calling us to ask them if we if we could supply them with brine. Same way with our salt. We have

plenty of salt on hand. We have two salt bins that hold approximately 7 to 800 ton each. The lower lower Gwennet, West Norton, and East Norton called me to borrow salt. They were all out. They couldn't get done and we were good. We still have approximately 700 ton there and we have another 500 ton on its way in. So that was the first stage of the operation brineing. There was already salt on the road, but we put the brine down anyway. It doesn't cost us much to make and it gives us that extra protection. During the course of the storm, we were out there in shifts. Like I said earlier, every all the plows were deployed. every uh personnel from public works was working. Um we created a schedule. Uh my foremans Vince Core Police and James Frillic came up with a schedule where in the very beginning we took breaks like about an hour interval, but we we already were working like four or five hours. Then after around the eighth hour, then we start switching the guys out so everybody would be fresh. And this is how we were able to go straight through the night into the next day. Once the snow stopped is when the problems began. Um, we started to move snow. We [snorts] were hauling it out. We used our heavy equipment guys. We brought in dump trucks to haul the snow out. We hauled approximately 180 truckloads, triacle truckloads, which amounts to about 20 ton per truck. So you know in total we put we hold out around 3600 tons of snow mainly from the business districts Main Street Marshall Swede Decal and we were trying to do this as fast as we can. Um you know you learn as you go. So next

time hopefully there isn't a next time but the next time this happens I suggested to Mr. Lightner today that we need to do that operation in the evening. This way we don't we don't have to worry about looking over our shoulder with all the cars, all the vehicles and all that. But as it turned out, we're still doing that today and we're still hauling more snow. So it worked out very very well. We have um situation with residents where they seems to be once they see the plow, it's automatic that they need to throw the snow back in the street. So we were we're encountering that even to this day. So the problem we're having is naturally you go down a smaller street and then they start to dig out and then it looks like you weren't even there. And we're on a schedule we have everything broken up into zones and we have everything broken up on the certain streets at certain times and as the guys go they know that they're going to be like say on Main Street first and they're going to Waller Street and they're going to Art Street. So they got to follow their zone. So you might not get back to that small street where they threw the snow for maybe an hour, maybe an hour and a half. So in the meantime, cars are driving on that, packing it down, creating problems for us. But um if once we get get that part straightened out, we should be okay. Um as far as the operations today, we're following our maintenance route. Everyone seems to think are on the impression is for the sweeper, but it's actually the sign doesn't say sweeper. It says just no parking. That's for times like this. You move your car, we combine with the plow, we open it up, now you could park. There's no problem. But the only thing that's hampering us is the temperature. The snow got so hard that we couldn't

move it. It's like trying to move, you know, icebergs and we're breaking plows. So then we had to stop that operation, but we started it up again yesterday and today and then the weather is supposed to be favorable as long as it's hanging around the freezing temperature, you're going to get some melting and you're going to get, you know, the melting from the sun and then we're able to push back. So if the residents just could bear with us and understand that we're out there, we're trying to do what we can do. And you know, if you have a driveway and we push the snow back, it's just part of the game. It's, you know, I can't deploy my crew to go clean everyone's driveway. Unfortunately, that's the nature of it. The snow rolls off the plow and it's going to be in a driveway. So, we try to avoid that the best we can, but just bear with us and we're going to continue this operation until we have everything cleared up. Now, we're supposed to get a little bit more snow starting Friday night. So, we're already brining again, even though there's salt on the road, but we need that barrier so the roads don't ice up. And that's about it. That's all I have to say. I like again, I want to thank everyone for helping us. This was a total team effort. And uh if you guys got any questions for me, I'll be glad to answer them.

Council, have any questions? No. No. Okay. Thank you. Uh thank you. Oh, hold on. I'm sorry. Counciloman Griffin

or Oh, McMahon. I'm so sorry. I I I just want to express my my thanks for all the effort that goes into this. Um you know, it it takes a lot of work. Uh it's long hours and then it's not always immediate like you say like below about 20° or whatever the salt doesn't even work again. Um so everything refreezes and it's it's been a challenge. It's been it's pretty unique set of circumstances. We haven't seen it for a long time. Um I understand everyone's concerns about having the chair a chair out there kind of protecting their place. We get it. Um but when things really do um begin to uh unfreeze where we can plow, we're going to really need the cooperation with keeping those roads clear so we don't slow down public works while they're removing chairs in order to clear the streets. So thank you for you and all all your departments [snorts] doing.

Okay, Councilwoman Griffin. Um yeah, so I also want to say thank you. Um it was appreciated. Um especially as someone that absolutely hates shoveling snow. Um, my question is because you were saying like you're seeing people shovel their snow out back into the street. Um, it's sounds probably stupid, but what is a tip you can give to residents when they're shoveling out their spots and we all live on narrow streets with narrow sidewalks and things. How what is where should they be shoveling their Well, you have to shovel it onto your sidewalk. Okay.

You shovel it onto your sidewalk or if you have a front yard, you shovel it on the front yard. I think the uh ordinance for the sidewalk, Keith, I guess you could correct 18 in. How? 30 in. So, you only need a 30 inch walk path on your sidewalk.

So, you have area there to stack it on the sidewalk. And that would help us greatly because like I said, they throw it back in and then you got traffic and you know, even foot traffic for that matter. I mean, it's packing it down and then by the time we come back around again, we can't move it. It's too, you know, with the temp in a normal situation, the temperature always cooperates, the sun comes out or we get rain right afterwards, but this was an abnormality. You know what I mean? So, um, but in situations like this, if we get the cooperations, we're going to have the streets open for you. I mean, we've been, like I said, this is the biggest storm in 10 years. We've been getting compliments, me and my team, you know, over the last eight, nine years of what a good job that we do. And we do I mean, these guys are experienced. They know what they're doing. And um everybody else, you know, they I when I'm out there with these men and I go to East Norton, I go to West Norton and I report to them. I say, "Oh, I'm up here on Colonial Avenue and it's a disaster. Main Street's a disaster, but once you get to Forest Avenue, it's wet. We're doing great. You know, we're, you know, but um in a situation like this with then throwing it back into the streets and I understand the hardship. The roads are narrow. You got to get to work. You got to get out. But, you know, like on Monday, for example, Monday everything was closed. There were more cars. You would have thought it was a Sunday afternoon in July. I mean, they're just out there. I don't know what it is. It's they see snow and they got to go. So, you know, but anyway, I think that's if they can help us out in that respect. Shovel the snow onto your sidewalk, stack it up there, just make sure you have that 30-inch path and you're good to go. And then so are we.

Okay, Coulson,

I also want to say um I know firsthand how hard the public works department works during a snowstorm, right? and you guys are working very very hard and I appreciate it. I have a heartfelt thank you to all of you for everything that you did. I also want to give a thank you to your leadership for stepping up through all of this and also Danielle I she probably took over 7 to 800 calls during the snowstorm and she had such a positive upbeat attitude through the entire snowstorm. Um, she took some pe some calls nice, some calls not so nice. But she was always just very upbeat, pleasant, easy to work with, and I can't thank her enough as well. So, thank you all for everything you did. I appreciate it. Thank you.

I have something as well. Mr. McCoy, [clears throat] excuse me. Yeah. I just want to thank you guys as well. Um, one day I live in the second district. I'm a councilman of the second district, uh, which is Northtown's business district. One day I'm sliding down Main Street. the next day the whole entire business district is open up and there's business just happening and I love that. So I appreciate you guys for that. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Just going to reiterate what everyone said. Great job. Clap [applause] clap.

We'll move along to public comments. Laura Smith signed up. So that means I get to speak for about 15 minutes. [laughter] You say somebody else after me. Oh, okay. Cuz my first guy, she said nobody else signed up. So I'm like, I get about 15 minutes. Hi, I'm Laura and I live in Norristown. Um, the first thing I was at the meeting and I heard about block byb block the ambassadors. Um, I need a little bit more understanding because I heard I heard her say the young man lived at a town that was running the ambassador program. Just verify that. I thought I heard her say that the young man lived out of town. And also, I heard a couple of council people mention too, where are our youth? The youth are always looking for jobs. Where why haven't we hired anybody from Nortown? Um, housing. I was a little concerned that it seems like all our beautiful houses, we're allowing people to turn them into three and four bedroomedroom apartments. We We got to figure that out. We definitely have to figure that out. That is crazy. Some of these houses are gorgeous. Now you got somebody from out of that doesn't live here in Nortown, buys a property, and then they turn it into an apartment complex. It's three or four apartments in that building. Why? Why are we allowing that? Let's Let's get on that. Let's think about that one. um block party. Um summer is coming someday soon. I don't know when, but it's coming because the ground hall scene is shadows. But um Lightner and anybody on council, can we group a meeting? Ask anybody that may be in the neighborhood that wants to be on that meeting and get that figured out and make sure that we're all on the same page. Um and lastly, I heard about the snow and I understand everybody has a job, but I'm I'm going to use me.

Somebody came and completely shovel me out. Like shovel my car so I can get out. I get it. You pushed it all the way back on my car. Me. I cannot carry that all the way to the curb now cuz somebody came and did that for me. I can't lift that all the way to the curb. I don't know where you want me to put it at. I don't. And guess where it went? Back in the street. I'm being honest with you. went back cuz I I can't carry it all the way to the cur. First of all, my my curve and sidewalk is already piled high cuz I had to clean it off my car. Clean it off the top. And then on Monday, we had to move our cars. You Everybody moved their car, but for some reason the whole corner was missed. So now we're squeezing back in because the snow is parked right there. So the person that would park there, now he's moved up a little closer. I moved up a little closer. my neighbors moved up a little closer. So, I get it. We didn't predict this, but we need to put it. We need to figure it out. And we always need to have that plan in plan. We We live in the East Coast. It could snow up until the end of March. We know that. But we need to have something in place. And like I said, I'm guilty. I put it back on the street. I'm like, there's no way I can lift this. I paid somebody to get my car out. So why now I need to lift that to a curve and like you said it's heavy so I'm not lifting it. I'm not. Let's figure it out. Thank you.

Mayo.

Good evening. Um I'm coming to speak about um the resolution for 2610 on the agenda tonight concerning the position of deputy chief of the police. It's my opinion that before we seek another round of investigations and background checks at the expense of the taxpayers of Narstown, we should consider the two previous candidates we had for our chief of police public panel. State this for the following reasons. It would not incur additional cost to the taxpayers given the previous two candidates were already interviewed and background. Both Krowner, I might be saying his name wrong, and Benjamin already processed the required um credentials needed to be deputy chief and prior to pre the previous process. Before we reiterate the will, it's required that the chief of police possess the same credentials as a sitting chief in the event of the chief's untimely desi dismise or disparter. In a previous meeting, Mr. Lightner spoke about the deputy chief that was awarded Lieutenant Angelusi who currently doesn't possess the required um credentials nor does anybody in the NPD right now. If the deput positions approved, there needs to be at least a minimum of three public hearings solely for the public's input. Given the fact that the previous public interview of the chief candidates within a public poll was taken electronically and did not disclose to the public would negatively affected public's trust with the process. Lastly, this will be our opportunity once again to begin in a homegrown talent with the required credentials and track record of stamping out the gun violence. And then on a positive note, for the next six weeks from I teamed up with um a couple organizations here in Nortown and with

the Vance Center um me um the blessing shop, Hakee Jones and One More mentorship. And from February 2nd to March the 9th, we are having um a youth drone and music podcast um for the youths um anything else that they want to come down and do at 2:14 um Cherry Street from 5 to 7 Mondays only right now. And we're just trying to collaborate with all the children here in the community. Um we're trying to ask them what do they want and the Vance Center is open right now to do that. He's certifying the kids to have drone training and after the six weeks they take a test, they become certified and in the summertime he would try to get them jobs starting at $80 an hour. So right now um organizations are collaborating. Anybody want to come down next Monday? We will we do feed the kids. We had our first session yesterday and we would love to have everybody come down on Monday evenings. Will definitely you cuz the boys are down there and Jasmine you too cuz the girls are down there. Thank you. Moving along to presentations. Norristown special events presentation, Miss Tracy Henry. [clears throat]

Good evening, council. Good evening, everyone. Can you make it full screen? Uh, my name is Tracy Henry. I'm the special events coordinator for Norristown. I'm very excited to present to you the 2026 lineup for the special events hosted by the municipality and partners and sponsors. Um, but before we get into the um to each event, I'd like to just take a quick second to talk about what special events is all about. Uh then after we do that, I'll take you through the details for each event that we have planned. Um I promise I won't keep you long. So my first question to everyone is did you know that 70% of Norristown's population is made up of young people from 45 years and younger? um which is infamously known as Millennials and Gen Z. If you know anything about millennials and Gen Z, you know they are very particular about their experiences and the events that they attend. So with that said, who is our demographic? Our demographic is millennials and Gen Z, as I said, and they tend to seek out interactive inclusive experiences that are authentic and purposeful. of these things on the list, there's one couple that I wanted to pull out and just give you an example of how we uh address those in in a special event. So, interactive and immersive elements, authentic and local culture and family inclusive but not kid only. So, for example, in one of the Junth events, uh I think maybe two years ago, a barber shop owner that was a local barber shop

owner in RStown came to me and said that they wanted to give free haircuts for the whole day during the event. So, what we did was we took the opportunity to figure out how we could include that into in the theme and get the point across about Junth. So, we created a popup barber shop. We put a tent. We put a barber bowl, a barber pole. We put two barber chairs in there. But not only did we do that, we put sign signage. Um I had all kind of signage made up about the history of barber shops with the barber shop, how it impacts um the black community, the black experience in America. And that was all throughout. The barberh shop chair was full the entire day. Man, woman, child, white, black, Spanish, everybody. All day the it was full. But what we kept hearing more importantly was how much everybody learned when they were in the barber shop and they didn't realize the impact of the barber shop and what the barber shop really meant. So that was just a small part of the the event. It didn't really cost that much money, but it was a way for all of us to use it. And then after the signage, we sent the the barber home with the signage to be able to put up in their barber shop. So it also just kept the learning going. why special events matter. Um, so one of the the main things about um the main reason for special events is to build pride. It's about Narstown pride. It's about branding and building the perception and the long-term growth and impact for the community. But more than just gatherings, these experiences bring people together to celebrate community, celebrate Norristown. So many times we hear people saying, "When we were younger, this is how Norristown used to be." Or, "Oh my god, I haven't seen this person." You see people that haven't seen people in a long time. And it just really is an opportunity to

bring people together to have fun and for us to come together for just that purpose, to have fun, to celebrate the community, and to celebrate each other. So that's really the main purpose of why you do special events. It's branding, if you will. It's morale building. So just like a corporation or organization has morale, so does a city. And the more you do, the more that's happy, the more that's joyous, the more that's inclusive. And pride building is it just builds morale and builds the excitement in the community for not only the residents to that live, work and play here, but also for future businesses to come and invest in Norristown and the future of Norristown and and residents that live here to to invest as well to go from an apartment owner to a homeowner to a business owner. All of that is included in that. And then what's a sponsor? What's in it for you as a sponsor? So sponsorship is very very important to the events because as we know they cost money. They cost a lot of money. Everything about an event costs money. Um the more money you have, the more money you can spend, the better the event should be. The better the event. Um, and so when I'm talking to organizations or businesses or people, individuals about being a sponsor, especially if you're a business, it's understanding that it is not an expense, but it is an investment. It is an investment in brand exposure. It is an investment in your community. It is investment in just the entire process. But most importantly, it is an opportunity for um for people to associate your brand with what they saw and what they experienced at an event. So, for example, PA American Water last year, they gave us the whole uh misting uh tent misting kind of it's not a tent,

but you can run under it and get wet. And it was it was 100° outside, so it was perfect. But it doesn't mean that someone will buy your product that day. But what it does is it makes them remember your brand and identify your brand. So when it's time for them to get or use that product, the first thing they think is you because they saw you at the party and they have fun in your tent and let me go with them. And it just gives you a different role. So really just to understand that it's mutually beneficial. It helps the municipality produce great events, but it also exposes your brand and exposes you to a niche audience that's there to buy. Anybody have any questions? No. Okay. Uh, Councilman, uh, McMahon. Um, one of the reasons I really sought this position on council is to sort of build community in Nortown. Um, I think public events, opportunities for people to get to know their neighbors, um, opportunities for people to come experience Norristown is really important to sort of build building uh, doing the business redevelopment in Nortown. Um, so like I want to see things like flea markets, farmers markets, festivals. I want to see like a Jimmy Smith music festival. We have music history. We're going to have a um a new state-of-the-art track over at Roosevelt Field. Um, and that can be the center of uh events and everything else. My question is, how do we begin coordinating things like, you know, uh, car shows and the uh, you know, the procession of arade of Guadalupe? How do we begin to do all these things without overwhelming you who are only one person? Um, more money. [laughter]

That's it. You know that song? You can have whatever you like. That's it, right? I I guess it's it. No, but but but a little bit more like how can how could we help also just facilitate people connecting with you and how can we take some of the load off of you and and maybe better management of the people who want to put these things on?

Um, I think basically I I still come into the same thing. it it becomes money because it's about money for staffing. It's about um money for coordination. It's about money for more events. Um because what we are from the from just to kind of give you a little bit of history, you know, when I initially started five years ago, um I had been working at Narstown through childcare and I worked for the Goddard School. I helped build the Willow School with Kim. Um, and I was just in Nortown and very enthralled with Narstown and I'm from Philadelphia and for people not really recognizing how beautiful Narstown was. And so I wanted to really help share that and spread that word. And at the time Narstown was interviewing for an special events coordinator, but really they were looking for like a part-time kind of secretary to take it over. and I approached the council and said, "You're looking for you have the wrong skill set and I want to explain to you what what branding is and what I can do for you and how I can help brand your city and how I can put you on the map." And one of the things when we signed on to that, we started out with a very very small budget and it has maybe it's four or five times larger than it was now. So, you are definitely supporting and believing in it. But, you know, when we started the first Junth, as I've told you guys before, we had 10 vendors. Um, and last year we had 55 vendors. Um, last year we had 2,000 people in attendance. This picture is from Junth last year. Um, as opposed to the first year it was like one little block. So, they just continue to grow. And in terms of helping to coordinate and to um share the load, we started doing committees. We started reaching out. We started to crossmix with um I've always worked with public works. They're just my superheroes. But parks and wreck now we're working with and working with council members. So, it's just I think as we grow and we evolve and it's a whole new council from when I started. So, it's also about you guys expressing

what you want. As I've expressed to Rashad, I'm open, you know. So, it's about whatever you guys want. If you said let's scratch this to start all over or let's add this or let's do that. I'm open to whatever however we want to do it. Good. Any more questions or comments? Oh, you do. Oh,

so I'm going to tell you about the events that we have and you may have questions once we get into what the events are, right? No worries. No worries. It'll about what the what the events we have on the books for this year. Um, and so you'll see our hashtags big fun in town and hashtag town24 because Nortown is 214 years old this year. So, the first event, I don't know if you guys can see that, the first event is going to be Izzy's Earth Party. It's going to be the first day we're having this large Earth party. What better way than to celebrate our mascot, who's a bumblebee. We know how important bumblebees are to the earth. And so, what we wanted to do was do something really fun that was very kid motivated and that would be an opportunity for children to look at their surroundings and to look at it a different way. So, we chose to have this by the U playground in Elwood Park and we're going to have a little scavenger hunt, but they're going to be stations around for them to um plant. We're going to plant some butterfly bushes, um bird houses. They're going to take a plant home with them. We're right now putting applications in to restock uh to do a little trout restocking that day. Um ideally, I wanted each kid to be able to take a fish and throw it in. Maybe not. Uh maybe it might be the older kids doing it up. We're going to still work through that one, but that's one of the things that we're really talking about doing, but more just really helping them understand that what they see around them is the earth. And when people are saying Earth Day and save the earth, that they in their little life, they have control and they can help as well. Um, and so that's what the day is going to be about. It's going to be a timeline, so a a designated timeline. So, we will have free tickets for people to sign up um on Eventbrite. And one of the main reasons why we want to do that is because there'll be takeaway for the kids. So, we just want to have some idea of how many children will be attending. Not like we'll turn away anybody, but

let's say we get 100 registrations. We know we need 150 things, but it just gives us a really good idea. It worked really well. Um the year before when we did it for ice skating, we sold out every hour. Um and so that worked really well. So, we're going to go with that. Then we tried to figure out a way because one of the things that it said is we want things that are kid-friendly but not just for kids. So we tried to figure out a way of how to extend it and what we wanted to do. So VNC in partnership we're going to have hopp hour hops. Get it? Happy hour afterparty um at Von and that's going to be even though Von is very uh familyfriendly there's kids there. If you've never been there it's an awesome place, great vibe. It's very fun. It's indooroutdoor. um they're going to do some behind the scenes uh sensory tours. Um one of the things that I really believe in in planning events and pretty much in everything I do, the more sensor more senses you stimulate, the more triggers. So if you go somewhere and you have a specific smell, then when you go somewhere the next time you go, "Oh, oh, that smell like von. Oh, I remember when I went to that event, von." So they're going to do um you're going to taste grain. You're going to smell it. Um taste and touch hops. that's going to be part of their sensory tour. We're going to do Earth Day trivia sessions. Um Izzy will be there as well to greet people as they arrive, live music, food trucks, and then the fundraiser. So, every we're going to uh highlight the um Stony Creek IPO that they sell there. For every pint that's that you purchase, a dollar of that will go to a Earth Day uh charity, which the committee has not designated what that charity will be, but it'll be an Earth Day charity. But Von has so graciously agreed that they will give us after the event's over, they will write a check on a dollar for every pint that's sold. Not just the Stony Creek pint, but every pint that's sold during the event, and we can make that donation. They're also going to add a roundup. So get when you're buying something, you have the opportunity to round up to the next dollar as well as

give your dollar. And then I just had a little So that's April 25th from 12 to 7. It'll be 12 to 4 in the park, 4 to 7 at fans. And then those are just the partners, all the partners that we have this so far that are going to be working with us. The next event is our flagship event with this Junth. It's our fifth annual Junth celebration. If you missed it last year, you missed it because it was the party of all parties. It was so good. Um, and the the really nice thing about Junth is that we really take advantage of the whole space. It's it's on the decal and um main at the intersection is where the main stage is, but center Theater, we have events all three floors in Center Theater. Elfe open with the window open. They're selling drinks. There's food vendors. Um there's face painting, line dancing, African dancing. Um local talent, a lot of local talent. want an open mic at rotation records. So, there's literally stuff to do all day long. Free entrance to the Eric uh to the Charles Bloxson exhibit all day. So, you it's very easy to get there at 12 or 1:00 and stay all day. There's uh umbrella tables, picnic tables, so there's places to seat. Like I said, um PA Water had the mister. So, the we made it through the rain last year right at the end. the skies opened up and it rain I mean the rain was sideways. But the beauty of that was we learned that the investment that we make in the professional tents was good because not one tent moved. Um and I mean the storm was crazy. Um and so that was really good and proved to us that that it's worth the investment because it's a big investment that will take place on Friday, June 19th from 12 to 6. It's at the Calvin Main Street. And again, it's

expected to have at least 2,000 visitors because that's what we did last year. July 4th, parade and party in the park. So, as you know, this is America 250, America's 250th birthday. We've decided the theme is going to be America 250, Norristown 214. Norristown was um incorporated in 1812, and we're going to celebrate that. We're going to celebrate the place that Nortown has in America. why, how it came to be, who it is, and why it's so special as a part of America. The one thing that we all decided, which I think I'm so excited about, is that we're going to have pep rallies, right? And so what we're going to do is we're going to encourage organizations, especially the historic foundations, um the Carver Center, Ebenezer Church, OIC, um the list goes on and on. And we're going to ask them, we're going to encourage them to have a pep rally at 11 o'clock at the on site on their site. So they would have all their people join them there. They'll decorate cars, balloons, do whatever it is they do and come as a group to the parade and to line up. So ideally, the vision is that all these people are coming from all different parts of town to get in line for this parade and then we'll all parade. And the parade, if it goes on for blocks to blocks and blocks, that's fine. We are right now in the process of finalizing the route because we just want to make sure that we hit the west end and the east end. But we have to make sure there's no intersections. We have to make sure that we're um and and the the the idea is to end in the church in the church. In the park the idea is to end in the park for the party in the park. Main stage vendors food it's like a family reunion and it's everything. um finalized uh the finale will be the annual fireworks show that happens about 9:30 or 10 o'clock.

Uh July 4th, 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. And then the last one is the annual winter event. So in the past years, we've had winter events. We did not have a winter event last year. One of the main reasons why we didn't have a winter event last year is because we lost some big sponsorship for the Junth and had to take a hit on that. Um, and so if we're going to do it right, we have to have the funding to do it. We have to be able to do it right. So, we opted to really really decorate the to light the building um and to do some smaller some smaller things. But in keeping with what the annual winter event will be, which I'm sure council will will um let me give me some feedback and let me know what you guys are looking for. It could be anything from caroling on the on the town hall steps and lighting um and lighting the building and lighting a tree to ice skating to a carnival with carnival rides. The possibilities are endless, but of course it always comes down to the money and that's the one that's at the end of the year. So, um if we take a hit on the other ones then, you know, sometimes that one we have to shave off a little bit, but I think I think we'll be able to pull it off. Um, and then just to say we should celebrate the moments that bring us together. They remind us of how much we share in common. And more than any time ever is a time that we need to celebrate the ideals of America. We need to celebrate um each other and and unity and and everything that brings us together because we have so much so much more in common. And then basically just follow us on Facebook and it's uh municipal Nortown municipality special events. Um but you can also Kevin will put it on the main page for Nortown municipality but the special events is really just just about the special events. It kind of keeps it rolling, keeps it going. Um and again there's my contact if anyone needs to contact me. That's it.

Thank you. Any questions or comments? Thank you very much. Well, thank you, Miss Henry. I appreciate it. Moving along, we have resolution number 26-10, request for municipal council to approve approval of a resolution rescending resolution 2569 and authorizing the creation of a deputy police chief position. Mr. Lightner.

Yes, thank you. Uh just to give an overview of what's going on here. Um we had resolution 2569 which appointed an individual to the deputy chief position. Um we were acting on previous past practices. So what we're asking after having conversation with civil service. What we're asking is for council to resend the appointment of the individual to the position as the deputy chief, but still keeping formally your request to have a deputy chief position. And then what we will be asking is for the civil service to create the rules and regulations to the appointment for that appointment appointed position. Um so that's what we're asking for. And just to clarify a question that came up about required qualifications according to our burough code and in Norristown uh charter and solicitor can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong. U but the appointment of that position must be a person of sworn a sworn officer within the ranks. So, we cannot hire an outside person to fill a deputy chief position according to our charter in the burough code.

That is uh sorry about that. Uh that is correct. You of course could go outside for a police chief as as Norristown has done, but for deputy chief per civil service rules and state law and actually the case came out of Norristown 30 years ago, um that's what's required. So to fill a deputy chief position, uh one is we're creating uh we're creating the position uh sending that to the civil service code. We're not giving them a name. They're free to do whatever testing to move forward with that process. We're sending all of that, but the person has to come from within the ranks. So again to to clarif Yes sir.

Just for um clarification um this position being created would not pull an officer off of the streets. Well once the rules and regulations are made we we can't address that because remember the rank the position has to be filled from the sworn officers within the rank. Again, until until civil service makes the rules and regulations and whoever applies, we can't attest to say it won't come off the patrol. We can't answer that, but it has to come from within the ranks.

So, when you when you say that, are you saying you're saying like if the person within gets promoted to that position, but that patrol position will still be open for us to fill? Correct. But we'll still be able to fill that position. That's what Okay. I just want to make sure. Um and just for our constituents, can you would you be able to tell them the I don't know if you have it on hand, the exact um is it the number in our charter that states so that they would be able to look up that provision as well about um it has to come up from within. We can give them the case. and give them just so they're able to

people can go look. Yeah. I don't have the case number, but it is in the burrow code. Yeah. When you look on on our website, it is on burough code. And that was challenged, I said, in Norristown years ago, and that's where the case came. Pennsylvania Supreme Court case came out of which I believe was discussed with all council and executive sessions. Yeah. Yeah. I just want it for for them because it's like you're of course we have it but for them so that they could look it up and know and um understand where to look.

Yeah. So that's what we're asking council to do again just to reiterate is to again we're requesting to resend the individual person out of that position to maintain the deputy chief position and u request civil service to create the rules and regulations for the deputy chief position and go ahead I'm just curious is it possible for you to give like a brief um explanation of why this position is necessary at the moment Absolutely. Actually, I will let the chief, he's more better suited to answer that question since they will be reporting directly to him.

Okay. Getting called [clears throat] on the spot. So, um so council uh ladies and gentlemen, members of council and the community, thank you for uh uh weighing in on this important decision. So, um, as we go back in time, when I came through this process, it was my understanding that one of the reasons I was brought on board was to standardize and professionalize the Nortown Police Department, to bring you into compliance with best practices, to create a structure that has a legacy so it can continue to uh, work to promote the qualified individuals who are within your organization. So, you don't have to go outside your organization. You want to develop talent and teams within your organization to sustain and and move on and transition uh ultimately in the future. There has been a time in this department prior to my time being here that there have been individuals who were serving as a deputy chief in rank. Um however, those assignments were not actually codified in rules of civil service. They were appointments that were made. So this is not a new position per se historically within the department. It has been there many times before. Um what the is being asked tonight is to codify it to create the rules. Why do we need it? Um my leadership here and my my job as the leader of this organization is to connect this department with the community. My job is not to do the day-to-day operations and determine whether or not a police officer responded to that call for service or did this. My job is to work with you to work with the members of this community to create a vision for your police department to determine the best way to implement that vision and then to put my foot on the gas and make sure we get there. To do that, I need a strong number two. I need a strong right hand who I can turn to every day, who I can trust that will go out and execute and lead the day-to-day operations of this PD. And that is what a deputy chief does. So, for that reason, I am

requesting that you would strongly consider the creation of a deputy chief position formally. And I believe it will strengthen the bonds of your organization and strengthen this community.

Thank you, Chief. And I just want to add to that when I came in and talked with council uh that was one of the things we talked about. We wanted to have a secession plan to keep people within the sworn ranks to give those them the opportunity to be promoted to grow within the organization and two also for stabilization to stabilize the department and as you all know you've gone through chiefs and also we wanted to formalize it because as chief said and others can attest to you've always had some form of a deputy chief but never really formalized. So what we're looking to do is just permanently formalize this so that way the department is built for future success.

And then I have one more question. U so when the civil service makes their rules and they bring it back to us, are we allowed to uh I guess bargain with them to change any type of rules or make anything better? Can we do that when they make their rules? I will let solicitor ask for that. Yes, you can. And if you don't like those rules, you can go back to them and ask to revise that. They can be a negotiation, so to speak, so choose. Thank you. But ultimately, they have to forward them to you uh and then you approve them. So there would have to be a negotiation. Gotcha. Two-step process.

Thank you, council. Any more questions? Seeing none, do I have a motion to uh excuse me, do I have a motion to pass the resolution 2610 um of council of of rescending resolution 2569 and authorizing the creation of the deputy police chief position? Do I have a second? [snorts] Uh madam secretary McCoy Robinson. Hi Natalie Coulson. Hi Jasmine Griffin. Hi David McMahon. Hi Rashad Bates.

Hi. The eyes have it. Uh back to administrator proclamation declaring disaster emergency due to winter storm fern. Yes, thank you Mr. President. So what we have to do is with this actually we declared a snow emergency prior to a council meeting. So what we do is we declare that state of emergency for snow emergency and then what we do is ask you to ratify it at the next council meeting. So what we're asking you to do is ratify the declaration of the snow emergency that took place uh I don't have the exact dates here but it's no emergency that just just took place. Council, any questions? Councilman Robinson,

I just have a question. Uh, in understanding the process and the procedure of it all, uh, in the ratification process, can you just talk us through, if any, ramifications of not ratifi um, ratifying an order after it's already been named? I believe um, not an expert on this, but my understanding is you need this resolution when you apply to for re uh, for rebate, I know rebates, refund grants from the state and federal sources. when it comes to the disaster emergencies. So each of the municipal almost all my other municipalities are doing this too passing various resolutions for emergencies specifying that and then you hand that would be kind of in the packet you go for whatever funding would be available you get back. I just kind of my understanding.

Yeah. I just wanted to clarify that and hopefully make it clear for the room that technically this is a status right that then makes us eligible for any relief that may come as a result of this. Correct. And that data the snow emergency is January 25th. Council, any more questions? Seeing none, do I have a motion to ratify declaring a disaster emergency due to wintertorm firm? Motion. Have a second. Madam Secretary William McCoy. Hi. Robinson. Hi. Nie Coulson. Hi. Jasmine Griffin. Hi. David McMahon. Hi. Rashad Bates.

Hi. All right, moving along to fleet resolution 260 2609 request for municipal council to approve a disposal of seven surplus vehicles and equipment. Evening council president Bates. Good evening.

Um this evening we're looking for approval to dispose of vehicles and equipment that are surplus we don't no longer use and things that have been replaced or will be replaced from our 2025 CIP. Um, some of the stuff we've held on to a little longer than we should because new equipment isn't always new. There's always problems. Um, I know George can attest or one street sweeper, it was here for about 3 days and it was gone for a week and a half. Um, so we're just looking to get rid of seven items that are listed in your packets. Um, it's a street sweeper um, which has been replaced already. Um, the new one is here on site. um the skid steer which uh we did utilize uh for the snow event, the new one. Uh the replacement is here now. Uh it was here back in the late December. Um our leaf machines, we used them all season long. Now it's the time to get rid of them as we have two brand new ones that are here now on site. Um our bucket truck is getting replaced. The new chassis was delivered to the upfitter. We won't see that until approximately mid June or July. Um it does take some time to to build those things. Um, but if we get this process done now, we don't have to come back after the fact and say, "Oh, now we need to get rid of this." We already have it in place. Um, we have an older vehicle. It's a 2000 Chevy van. It's It's 26 years old. It's It's well past its prime. Um, it's cost effective to dispose of it instead of repairing it. And it's not it's no longer utilized. Um, we have a patrol unit um that was delivered to us for upfitting back in November. We should see that in the next couple weeks. Once that arrives, the old vehicle will be dis decommissioned and disposed. And then the last thing on the list is uh we have a new vehicle for our command staff. Um unfortunately we got it in time because two days later we unfortunately had a command staff vehicle get towed in an accident. Um it

was sitting at home was hit by a drunk driver. So it kind of worked out. So I Any questions? Council, any questions? Councilman McMahon, I have a question, but I'm not sure who directed to. Um, so the the proceeds from these uh sales, do they go into the general fund or do they go into these two respective departments? Basically, public works and the police department, they go back to the general fund. Fund, any other questions? Councilwoman Robinson.

Um, I just had questions on the disposal process. I think when we hear disposal, we think we're just getting rid of it. But as Councilman McMahon alluded to that there is a value uh that is goes along with these. Do we have any estimates or how does that process look? How will we know uh or when will we know what type of value we hope to recoup from these?

So the the process is three steps here. Um no one person has control of all of it. Um I give the description of the vehicle. I will go online. I will get past best practice of cars values through NADAS, Kelly Blue Books, recent auction sites and just general knowledge at best. Um, finance holds all the titles. They have it in a safe. No one else has access to it. So, that's two steps. The third step is once I get all the packet together, I present it to administration and then they put it on an auction site. It's a government auction site. Um, and we get whatever we can for it. We set the minimum price to what the value is at that time and most of the time we get to it and if we don't we will relist it again with a lower value.

And then just my follow-up question was of the list there were three vehicles you mentioned that were um going to be replaced uh when they were when the new buildout was completed. I just wanted to also understand that process so I have clarity. Are those vehicles all already acquired and then now just go need to go through the build or are there more steps? Everything is here on site um and it is either getting built or in process thereof. And once the new one gets delivered here and it's signed off on and put into service, that vehicle will then be removed from service.

Council, any other questions? Seeing none, do I have a motion to approve 26-09 of disposal of seven surplus vehicles and equipment? Motion. Have a second. Second. All right. Madam Secretary William McCoy. Hi. Viewer Robinson. Hi. Natalie Coulson. Hi. Jasmine Griffin. Hi. David McMahon. Hi. Rashad Bates. Hi. You guys have it. Thank you. Thank you, council.

Next up, we have Parks and Recreation Resolution 26-08. request from municipal council to authorize the execution of a three-year contract with Zambelli Fireworks for amount not to exceed $104,575 for the pres for the provision of fireworks displays for the annual party in the park celebration held each year on July 4th. Hello, Miss Hawkins.

Good evening, members of council. Um, yes, I'm here to present resolution 2608. And this resolution is to secure a three-year contract with Zambelli Fireworks for our annual party in the park. Um, we have utilized this company in the past. It's an excellent company. It's actually the number one fireworks company in the world. And, uh, over the past two years, we have received several, um, several compliments from our constituents explaining to us how the last two years have been the best fireworks shows that they have ever seen in Norristown. So, I believe to continue to utilize this company will be a great service to our constituents per their request. Um, also and knowing everything that this company has to offer, securing a three-year contract also provides us the opportunity to lock in the rates that we currently have and avoid those rates increasing for the following years.

Council, any questions? Council Robinson, I just had a question. If I'm remembering correctly, uh, when this came before council in the previous year, it was a one-year contract. I don't know what the cycle or frequency has been prior to that. I was just wondering what was there a premeditation or what um an incentive around transitioning from a one year to a three-year? Yes. Just to avoid keep coming back to you guys to ask you guys for the same thing over and over again every year. So, it was just it makes more sense again as well to lock in the rates now because next year the rate can go up.

A a follow-up question to that. I noticed in the three-year break breakdown, it wasn't like an evil even annual cost in particular. This year was more expensive than the other two with the third year being more expensive than the third the second year. I was just interested to understand how are they gauging that pricing and is this year's uh high rate higher rate is that any way affected by the other events around America 250 or things like that? Yes. So we have we decided to go with option B which is the extended show option and it's because it's America's 250. So that's the reason that the rate for this year looks the way that it looks in comparison to 2027 and 2028.

Any other questions? Oh sorry I just have one follow just one last followup. Um are they are there any breakdowns for the three years? Is it a commitment to a fully three years? Are they interest are you or are they at all interested in a breakdown over the cost of years or does that impact the overall pricing? Did we I'm sorry my more simpler. Did we get a quote for one year and a quote for three years from the same vendor? Yes. Okay. Is there any difference between the two in regards to the one the one year in question? This this it's still the same price. Gotcha.

Yeah, that was my question. I just wanted to see if there was an option for a one-year contract just versus just going with the three as well. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Councilman Griffin, do you have questions? No, I was saying. Okay. Any other questions? Council, seeing none. Yeah. I I just thought that you had Yeah. My I just I would just have to add that um my recommendation would be to just move forward with a um one-year contract and just look for something um you know in the the following years to see if we can find something that is le you know less expensive that would be my recommendation I understand that that's what uh

I would have to make a motion yeah I guess yeah would you like me to can I make a comment real quick before you make the motion motion no no I didn't make a motion no just I just had a question I I in the overall small scheme of things, I imagine that getting three years done with now a saves time and labor for you and your team, I'm sure, in the negotiating process to go back around in the kind of concept of it being a just a one-year focus. I was just wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that impact that it may have on you, you or your team as service providers, if there's any impact.

Um, it will just, I mean, more than likely just the budget impact that it will have. um because I don't know what the rate will be next year going into a one-year contract again next year. So, it just um but we know how to I know how to I I have it worked out. Um again, we've worked with this company in the past. Um and the representative that I work with, he's pretty he's pretty good. He's pretty good with understanding um the different things and also making adjustments to the contract if I need them.

Okay. And I just want to say I think it's really cool that you do have us in collaboration with the top company in the in the area in the world as far I think is what you stated. I think that's really cool. I struggled a little bit in prioritizing it even though I do think it is important. I struggle with prioritizing it. Knowing the vast amount of things that the community is facing as a whole and so just in understanding that impact it does make me want to align a little bit more with maybe co breaking that cost down a little bit more to make it a little bit easier to chew over time. Okay. So with that being said, council, would you like me to continue with the motion for three years or do you want to go for one year and look for something cheaper in the future? One year.

Make a motion. Okay. So, I'll make a motion to amend the three-year uh contract and to move forward with the one year. Madam Secretary, William McCoy. Hi, Adira Robinson. Hi. Allie Coulson, hi. Jasmine Griffin. Hi, David McMahon. Hi, Rashad Bates. Hi. Yes, I have it. Thank you, Rihanna. Thank you.

Thank you. Moving on to police resolution number 26-04, memorandum of understanding between the Narstown Police Department and Bode Cellmark Forensics Incorporated. Good evening, council, members of the community, Mr. President, uh here before you uh under, please forgive me at my readers. I'm having problems with my glasses today. [clears throat]

this resolution here before you today, 2604, this is a memorandum uh and a an agreement to update pricing related to the departments and the county's DNA testing program. So, by way of background, uh several years ago, about four or five years ago, I don't know the exact date, um Montgomery County and multiple departments in Montgomery County started a local DNA testing database where we're compiling DNA locally for local crimes. And these things are like burglaries, god forbid, homicides, shootings, um aggravated assaults, robberies. We're now able to develop DNA locally in local databases [clears throat] which assist us with identifying individuals who are likely have to committed a crime and um basically what is going on with this agenda item is to actually update pricing for the next two years. Uh it has nothing to do with the originalou and I and I say that because I know there's some concern

[clears throat] related to this and some other challenges with respect to what's going on with DNA and there may be some questions. So I want to let the council know that at some point in the past this council maybe not this particular council approved anou specifically stated the guidelines on how this program would be implemented and how the data would be used. There's no changes to that. However, there are changes to the pricing. So, what you're proving tonight is a pricing change uh to the current DNA testing program is already in in a place in this municipality. [clears throat] That makes sense. Councilman McCoy. Yes. I'm just c Oh, excuse [clears throat]

um just curious once like DNA from Narstown is uploaded into the system um does the municipality retain any oversight or um do we do we have any insight on who has access or what agencies have access to this data?

So the process is kind of a a couple step process. Um I'll just walk you through it. Let's say we have a a a a violent crime and we capture DNA. Uh we will swap the DNA. We will capture it. We'll catalog it and we will submit it to BOD which is the lab. They will develop and then once that developed DNA profile is put in place it will get uploaded to a system called KODS which is the Pennsylvania State Police DNA repository. And then there it sits in that repository and anybody with access to the repository has access to any DNA profiles that anyone has developed. So that's a long-winded way of saying yes, once the DNA is developed, it goes into a a nationwide database that's accessible across the country.

So more specifically, so once we upload it, it doesn't prohibit um organizations such as ICE or DHS from obtaining this information. And I only say that in the be on the behalf of our constituent body that is currently facing like epidemic or a crisis at this moment.

Right? So to answer your questions, I don't know if ICE accesses the database. I don't know if they have access to the database. I've heard an ancillary that that is in fact case that there they are members. I I won't dispute that. Um but the DNA profiles developed are a developed with a DNA profile. They don't identify uh immigration status. identify individuals who are likely to have been engaged in crime. Um, and I think what's important for the this committee and I think um, what I can provide for you is the actual language about what happens to those developed DNA profiles with respect to that original memo of understanding if there's concern.

Think I would like to hear that for sure. Uh, Councilman McMahon.

Uh, yeah, I know, um, there's some of us on this council who are working on a, um, you know, a package of legislation regarding immigration and customs [clears throat] enforcement. Um, among those, um, ideas we might be considering would be, um, rescending contracts with, uh, uh, companies that collaborate with ICE, right? I'm not necessarily interested in uh adding a new one. Um I don't know if it's possible to um really [snorts] assess or find um a company that can um provide these services that wouldn't be doing that. Um but I would maybe like a period of time for that to be pursued to be investigated. you know an alternative uh company providing these services.

So um just to give you an understanding of that impact so the the challenge with DNA in development of DNA is the repository which is run the kodish repository they have strict standards and those standards are very science they're very high and it's difficult for many labs to meet those standards. So I suspect the reason that bod is the nationwide go-to lab so to speak is because they've met those standards. Um, but I understand your concerns. I can get you information regarding the originalou because again, we're not changing theou. We're just updating pricing. Um, but I can provide that for the uh for the committee and try to answer any of your questions if you want to submit them to me should this not go forward tonight.

Yeah, I would I would propose a period of time to investigate that specific topic. Councilwoman Robinson.

Uh, thank you. I did have some questions. So, as I was looking into Bode and trying to understand before I even go there, I'm I'm a bit confused that this is about pricing because I just want clarity as it's listed on our agenda. It says that this is a memorandum of understanding with B with Bode relating to Bode's DNA data sharing permissions, but I didn't receive anything in regards to any change or previous data sharing permissions. I did see where there was a some type of some changes in pricing, but it was confusing within the packet and was listed on the agenda of what actually is the ask for tonight.

So, the ask for tonight and and I first of all, I apologize for the information not being there. It should be there and I will own that. Um, but there's a document that I hear from hear from Bod which I can tell you probably don't have. Um, and if you look this agreement, I'll just read the language. It's [clears throat] basically a boilerplate agreement, but it says now for in consideration of mutual obligations set forth here, which is the is the agreement. This modification shall be effective from the date of the signature below. By executing the modification, the original contract and all modifications are extended through January 22nd of 2027. The pricing tables are hereby deleted in their entirety and replaced with the new pricing tables. All of the other terms in the original agreement except as amended herein i.e. the pricing changes shall remain unchanged and in full force in effect. So

just to acknowledge I do have that. Okay. But to me it it does say that the data table changed. It does not say what the service the database service agreement is or what the permissions are. And that's in the original agreement which I think you should have. So just so I'm clear because this this what's on our agenda implies that there is some type of change to those permissions but it doesn't seem here that there is a change to these and a further question is part of this after getting this it says that we we will reinstate service. I just wanted to understand that status a little better. Is service not currently active with bode?

No as far as I know as of uh four o'clock this afternoon we still participate in the program. and we're just buying our DNA test kits for the year 2026 and securing the price for the next uh up until 2027. Yeah, I'll just say council for for for similar reasons that already been discussed and for just the lack of clarity where we are, I just would like a little bit more information about what the ask is, what we're looking at and in particular to Bode's uh responsibility or not responsibility in sharing information. I would want us to understand what that endorsement from our behalf looks like. I'll work on developing that for the members to review.

I was going to say I I feel like I can't we I feel like we need to have the original agreement and we don't cuz we don't understand what the terms are and I feel like it would be irresponsible to agree to something when we don't even know what the term the original terms are. Okay. to begin with what we have to Well, I have a question I guess for Chief for Administrator Lightner. Um, so thisou was this like a time-sensitive thing? Is this on the weekend table for another meeting so we can go back and get more information to make a more a better decision here? Yeah. So,

well, I would say I mean if you're not comfortable with with it, let's let's table it. We'll get you the information you need. Um I don't know if we're are we under a time crunch from so ultimately we'll continue [clears throat] as the status quo until such time as that we have no longer test kits. So eventually if we run out of test kits and this isn't signed to procure new test kits the DNA testing program in our town police department will cease. So we will not be doing test kits are something that we stock up on. I know we prepay for services as part of this contract.

We [clears throat] are prepaying the test kits. So we we know the cost of what a test kit will be depending upon if we do and you'll see there's a bunch of different types of test in there if you saw the packet. Um we're just we're prepaying those costs. If we do not sign this and we exhaust the testing capabilities the pro the DNA program will stop until such time as it we either find a new lab, revive the program or what have you. That was my question. I just wanted to know were there any other companies that do what um do what they do or is there some other ones? I I I know there's sure there's many labs out there that develop DNA um ones that are compliant with the standards to enter CODUS and to be acceptable in criminal prosecutions. Uh I don't know.

Okay. All right. Go ahead, council. So I I mean I have a slightly different proposal or kind of in addition to what we're talking about now which is to explore alternatives to um other companies that provide sim similar services that number one we assess the the amount of um bod's cooperation with ICE and that we look for alternative vendors uh based on that outcome and take a period of time to make that part of our conversation as well as understanding the data sharing in particular. But I would like to see um that we understand better the extent of this company's um cooperation with ICE and local alternatives if um if we find that it is excessive.

So council would you like us to table this for the next meeting or [clears throat] further on? Okay. All right. So council can I have a motion to table resolution 2604 withou with the uh vote cellmark forensics? Second. Madam Secretary William McCoy. Hi Dear Robinson. Hi Mie Coulson. Hi Jasmine Griffin. Hi David McFahan. Hi Rashad Beats. Hi. Resolution is tabled. Thank you.

Thank you. Um moving on mot excuse me a motion for application for the PCCD grant for the year 26 2026 to 2028 violence intervention and prevention. So, um, one of the things I'm happy to report, uh, is that we have been fortunate to receive grant funding for our crime fighting efforts here in Norristown for many years. This is a grant we have received for many years. I don't know the exact timeline, but we currently went through a grant process in 2025 where we exhausted funds for violence protection programs. Uh before you today is a application for the fiscal year of 2026 through 2028 through the VIP grant which is the violence intervention program. We have and will be asking for funding for two particular programs. One and one of the programs that I'm very happy to talk about tonight is the is the hero program. Now, this is a hands-on engagement uh community-based uh youth development program which specializes in STEM, science, technology, engineering, and math. And this program has two sessions that occur every uh fall and winter. And each session is 35 kids. So, 30 70 children per year for the three years this program is in effect. will have an intense um 12week program that talks about science, technology, and engineering, math through robotics, critical thinking, creativity, and innovation. And it's a program that is fully funded for the individual kids who participate. This is all uh included in the funding program, which I think is a great program because I we all know that the youth is where we need to be and we talked about even you're going to be having the robotics, I think the drone. So, this is this is a continuation of that. This gets us funding for a program uh like that. Uh secondly is the integration of a drone

uh for um the police department. Uh obviously you've seen drones. Our fire department has multiple drones. We're looking to acquire a drone program for the police department. And the Axon drone program is a drone that is connected to our current body warrant and camera software. So, it's a camera that is part of our Axound system, which you already have. All the officers in the department wear body war cameras. This one is a camera that is on a drone. It's deployable by the department. So, we could use it in the community to help uh in times of crisis. We can also use it in times of public events, large mass gatherings. We have seen throughout this country horrible incidents of large mass gatherings where people, you know, come there to seek harm and and and and and do any number of things to our community. Having an operational drone on staff which is already integrated to our camera warning system that we can deploy at large public events to provide operational overview and security is a great is a great program. Um again, this is for the program years for 2026 through 2028. The total request for the grant that we are seeking is in the amount of $498,925. So what we're doing is we're asking PCCD grant to review our submission for the Axon drone program and the HERO fund uh in the amount of $498,000. Hopefully we can secure that grant funding and bring those valuable programs to our community.

Council, any questions?

Okay. Council McMahon. Um I'm really excited for the um you know the possibility of the hero program. Um and again I know many of us on council here are interested in sort of developing some kind of like um youth violence reduction kind of program coordinating a lot of um independent work that's going on. I'm really excited about the STEM piece of this because you know we have a really strong parks and recreation department. this builds another area the potential for the library to have like cooking and then recording session you know u curricular programming or something like that. Um so as this part of like a coordinated hole I'm I'm really excited about this. I am very um I understand the interest in the drone. I'm very cautious about mission creep with drones.

Um it's something I will be [clears throat] following really closely. Right. Um, so strongly supporting the hero grant, cautious about the drone. And so maybe it's may maybe maybe it's not the right moment for this, but I saw the ad for other police officers and it was all the whole sense of that was people gearing up for battle. That was pretty concerning to me as well. Um, so are we appealing to bring the right people into this police force by means of that kind of advertising?

So I think one of the things that addresses your concern is how will that drone be deployed? And I think um in order to in my professional opinion, if I may, we can look to secure the grant funding. We get the grant funding then we can discuss about policy and procedures that relate to how it's used. So, we can address any of your concerns, but I would strongly ask that we actually at least try to get the grant funding first. Then once we get it, come back to you and say, "Hey, here's the here's the drone. Here's how we plan to implement it within Norristown so we can get your your support." Counciloman Robinson.

Uh, thank you, Chief, uh, for bringing these forward. Uh, I think it's a great funding opportunity. As a nonprofit leader, I spent a lot of time with this particular document um and trying to look over this. I do want to acknowledge that the funding packet that was inside of our packet is from the previous funding year. So, I was able to find the current funding year and in going through that to find the eligibility starting with my own hesitations around the Axiom Air um and how that works. It seemed set up by your proposal that the community would be involved once we got the unit and once we got the funding what the policies would look like. I wonder if there was ever a thought given to retroactively before before that that the community decide do we want a drone? Is this how we want to operate this and then build out the policies? I'm trying to understand how the two go together. And before I kind of take you down a tangent, I'm concerned too looking at the project detail in the updated funding request. It does say that um measures like sec uh excuse me like um security cameras, hardening strategies, uh things like that are not actually covered in this grant. And looking up uh hardening strategies is safe to say that a zone a drone could be interpreted that way. The max that we can ask for for this grant is $500,000. What you've already proposed is very close to that limit with a significant amount of it being this drone program. trying to understand a little bit more about it feels like the stakeholders are in the process after the purchase and not before and I do feel like this is something where there could be mission creep or people could feel I know for me I really don't want you flying over my head so I'm a little bit concerned in that kind of context why purchase before conversation

well quite frankly it's timing uh just frankly the the proposals here um as you know I'm your new chief I've been here about 12 weeks we have not had the time to had a discussion about your visions related to DNA testing or drone or technologies. Um, broadly speaking, they are widely acceptable practices in the industry and I and I do support them. I also understand your concerns. Um, I think that um getting the grant funding is is necessary to to secure that program and then I would work with you to create language in policy that would satisfy your your concerns. Uh my other questions moving sorry moving on from the drone moving into the hero program. I think in in ideiation it sounds like a really good program, but in further looking at it, it seems that there's a good portion of this that is based to that officers are running this STEM program. And I'm trying to understand and I'm not speaking for what they do, what accreditations or career skill sets that they have, but we have five officers that are STEM qualified resource instructors.

That I I don't know. I I I know that what they're what the program here is it'll have a um a syllabus, a curriculum. Uh the officers will obviously need to to work to train and develop their skills to deliver the program. Um but it's paying for their time to be there is what that the main cost is labor. Yeah. The main cost is labor. I I understand where you're at with this is you know there's it's a lot of money. How much of actually going to the kids versus to the cops? It's it's a reasonable it's a reasonable uh question to ask, but that's where the majority of costs are

to name as this budget proposed. It puts the the the rate of instructor particularly not even for the outside professional, but for the uniform officer at $85 an hour over a course of a fiveweek program for 12 weeks, which is over $150,000 for their participation in built in just being in the program. And I think those costs also cover health care pay everything related to what it costs for an officer to be there. Um, however, not getting the grant means we don't have the money for the program. And I and I say it in the sense that a part of it is the officer cost and a part of it is the program cost. So

in the world of the program cost, it in the grant letter and in the proposal, it did say that any 501c3 could apply for this grant. And also if it's not a 501c3 they can come under fiscal sponsorship or partnership with one. Was there any thought to pair with a community organization that was already doing similar work or had expertise within STEM so that they are their recipients of that professional level service?

Yeah. Again, no. From my point because I have been here 12 weeks. However, where where you're going, I'm aligned with you on that is because one of the things we're working with right now is a ministerium, the greatest Norristown area ministerium for getting their 501c3. So the hero program would fit really well into that into that that compartment where we could utilize volunteers and maybe a few police officers to help implement the program. So there are a lot of ways to to to approach this. This traditionally has been the way northtown has done it. They've identified programs in the VIP grant funding period in the year preceding the grant year which was in 2025. and now they're here presenting the request to apply to the grant.

Just so that um is clear as far as what this grant cycle looks like. Then it's you're now able to apply, but that application process looks like you you uh complete a survey and then they pretty much let you know whether or not you're they're going to invite you to apply on the more formal process. So there's not like a deadline or like here's the application. you do what there is a a survey link that you'll complete that'll get you invited into the next steps. It looks like that timeline looks around March 1st. I would be interested in seeing maybe a little bit more and I believe you put thought into it but some more thought around here. I think that there is a missed opportunity for partnership here and I think that re-evaluating how we resource the funds in a way that is impactful but also can meet the promise that STEM level professionals are the ones putting forth this service. So, I think we're a little bit off between the ask and our this proposed execution of it is my personal opinion.

Thank you, ma'am. Any other questions? Counciloman Griffin. Yeah, I had a question um about when it comes to the grant because you're talking about the drone and then you're talking about the hero program. Is there a possibility of pursuing the grant without the drone? So, full disclosure, I've actually never written a VIP grant. Um, but it would sound reasonable that that is a possibility, but I don't have that information for you right now. [snorts] Council McCoy,

definitely. Um, uh, I also would like to see if it's possible for potential partnerships because in McGomery County, we have approximately like 7,000 plus nonprofits and 233 within the m municipality of Narstown. And um, to have experts that actually live that on a daily basis, stepping into these young people's life, trying to guide them forward, I think that's something that I would love to see in collaboration with the police department and even council members as well. Yeah, because what we just saw tonight that someone came up and spoke I think it was was it Teria? You spoke about how you guys have like a drone program certification and things like that. So even someone just speaking tonight regarding that I mean that's even a partnership in itself. So um I I have to agree. Uh so the question would be then uh are you able to apply for this grant and then also look for partnerships in other nonprofits at the same time or just have you have to find the partnership first and then apply for the grant.

Uh I would have to look at that. I don't know that off the top. I do not know that right now. I can look into it and I can get information for you. So just and I'm not speaking as an effort uh expert but just of what I understood this is not a formal application process. This is this is the proposed scenario and then this proposal is sent in. Correct. It's more like a LOI like a letter of interest to show here is what we think we might want to do. Does that interest you? And then from there they would then invite us to apply if that meets their dynamics. I still think that this could be workshopped a little bit more before we submit that LOI. It's easier to prepare that now than to retroactively trying to make those changes especially when you're submitting a budget.

Okay. So, with that being said, how are we going to do this? You want to table this for him to go back and find nonprofits to work with first and then apply for the grant? I think it's just tableabling at this point. I don't have a direct action for you, but I will I will I'm willing to work in support of workshopping this grant and identifying particularly the opportunities that I'm speaking of. So, we'll go back. We'll do our due diligence, do my homework, make sure I have your answers. I would ask I encourage you to forward me your questions if you don't mind because I didn't take a chance to write them down. That way I can make sure I'm getting the information that's uniquely tailored to each of your concerns.

So, uh, council, do I have a motion to table this uh, application for the PCC grant of 26 2026 to 2028? So, William McCoy, I dear Robinson, hi. All Coulson, hi Jasmine Griffin. Hi, David McMahon. Hi, Rashad Bates. Hi. The eyes have it. Thank you, Chief. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on, we have planning and municipal development uh Nartown Area School District request for a permit and land development fee waiverss. Good evening, council members.

Um we do have the school district here. Uh they're proposing to have an additional school. um they approached uh planning staff and uh we did tell them it's a land development process and any land development uh that is submitted comes along with fees and in this particular case uh when we received the information on what they were planning to do we calculated it and the land development fees would be uh $11,348.13 and as I mentioned the to the school board, we can't authorize um a waiver. Only council can and therefore they've asked to come before you tonight to ask for that waiver.

Thank you. Good evening, council. Uh good evening, Northtown residents. Uh thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. Uh council members, uh and welcome Councilman McMahon. I believe you weren't here when, uh we did our presentation on our facility master plan, uh back in October. Uh we presented a 10-year $350 million investment across all of our school buildings. Um that has been approved by our school board. Uh and as I mentioned, we are in the early preliminary phases of three uh three of the six major phases of that work. One was uh to do uh renovations, our high priority renovations through guaranteed energy savings agreements uh to do a uh significant construction addition on our high school. And third was to to address some uh some uh time-sensitive short-term space needs at three sites. Cole Matter Elementary School, our administration building, and Hancock Elementary School right here in the municipality. Uh we've made significant progress on all three phases. Uh our school board approved about $40 million of our phase one high priority renovations that are going to be done uh through two separate Giza contracts. Uh that is work that will be scheduled to start this summer 2026. Uh we also are on track uh with our high school construction process. We are uh concluding our design and development phase. Uh we anticipating going to bid sometime this spring and we're very very excited to have shovel in the ground hopefully right after graduation June this year for a two to threeyear construction project up on main campus in West Norton. Uh the third one is uh we've been working with Triumph uh modular uh to address those short-term needs at our three sites, Cole Manor, the administration building in Hancock. Uh we're going through the design phases. We are uh again this very accelerated timeline where we're looking for uh summer installation and occupancy to start next school year. Uh in working with Weston Township and East Artton Township, uh those projects were a little bit ahead of where uh with the

municipality. Those entities have very kindly waved our land development fees and have consolidated the land development and permitting process to allow us to stay on track with the pro with the project. Uh we've been working with Jane very very closely on um the process here in Narstown that would involve the Hancock Elementary site. Uh this is again just working with our friends from u from the shock group. Uh Mr. Tim Davis is here in the role of civil engineering land surveyor. He's been supporting the school district. Uh this is just a much more formal uh a uh um schematic of what I showed really in a representative fashion back in October. Uh so again, we're just kindly asking that uh this council grant us courtesy of a waiver of the fees and really giving Jane authorization to uh to work on that consolidated land development permitting process so we can stay on track uh for a spring to summer construction installation and a occupancy for the start of the 26 school year.

I I do have a couple questions and this may be for Jane. So um for so the land development this is a third party correct? Yes. So, we're not really asking um to wave the fees because technically we're still paying them. Is that correct? So, we would still have to pay the third party. We would still have we're still we're still paying it. So, it's not really a waiver on our end since we're not doing it in house. Is that correct? Okay. And also too, we're not looking or we're not looking to wave any construction fees at this time. It's just a land development. I was just aware of the land development. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Council McMahon. Yeah. I'm sorry. Uh we also have Jeff Cardwell who's our chief operations officer and again Tim Davis from Shock Group are here if there are any technical questions.

Um the the the amount the amount was 11 thou 11,000 something. Yes. Um so basically what we're being asked to is to cover an 11,000 plus cost not really wave a fee. Um I don't quite understand the n the reason for the request given given the financial condition of the school district compared to the municipality.

Uh thank you Councilman McMahon. Uh again this is a process we go through because with the fees also uh comes really the the totality of a land development process which again just costs us time a little bit. as we've been working with the other municipalities again, they've been kind enough to uh either wave and or absorb those land development fees and also do the consolidated process for us. So again, we're really looking for uh just, you know, again, a similar consideration that we've gotten from the other two municipalities that uh make up the school district and we're here to just again uh ask for some consideration as we always work together. Uh Mr. Lightner knows we have a lot ofus where we uh where we frequently wave fees and permits and things like that uh for each other.

I guess my other question and we probably don't know the answer to this is um are the other municipalities the waving the fees are they in-house versus a third party. So that's what that's what that would um another question I know you may not know the answer to that but um that would be a reason why maybe they would be waving the fees. I do not know about that. Yeah. But yeah. So, okay. Counciloman Robinson. Uh, Mr. Mr. Davis from Shock Group said the other municipalities are third party as well. They are third parties. Okay. That's great because my question was going to be, do you have an approximated value of the amount of waiverss you've received so far inclusive of East Norton and West Norton? Okay. Uh but

what I can share is the uh the East Norton project square footage wise is about comparable to what we're asking at Hancock. The one in West Norton is slightly smaller uh because that addition is but uh they've also I think Mr. Cardwell correct me they've also waved the land development fees for the high school project as well. Uh which is a significantly bigger addition. We're talking almost 60,000 square feet at the high school. Uh my question I have a couple questions. I'm a little challenged for where to start because it feels like it's running together a bit, but maybe I'll start here. In the process, is there a world where these two things can exist separately? Can you can there be a consolidated process that still helps with time without a waiver?

The the process, no consolidated process per se. Um because this is how it goes. you once they submit a land development uh application, what we do to help uh the process move along fast is actually get all the reviewers. Uh I think that's what we'll do so that they can give them feedback before they've put in the application so that we're not going back and forth. It's very easy to for a developer to put in a land development application and then it goes through all maybe six or seven reviewers and they're going back and forth with the developer and that can extend the whole process. But to help it move faster, what we do is have what we call a pre-application meeting where we invite all the reviewers when we've already sent them the sketch plan. They look at it, whatever concerns they have when they come to that meeting, they're able to give feedback to the engineer and the developer right then and there. So that cuts almost two, three months of going back and forth. So that's how supposed it consolidated. It's not really consolidated, but that's how we call it just to shorten the time of going back and forth.

I think that makes a lot of sense consolidated because like Jane said, otherwise it's this very sequential process that drags out over three two to three or four It can even it can even take six months and you can't just pay for it all up front. Like you can't the school district can't just bring your $11,348 check and say let's have this one consolidated meeting. Is that not a version that can happen? Can you repeat that again? I'm not sure. The version of what we're waving in in the name of not waving it, can you just pay that amount at one time in full fee and have your consolidated process?

They're actually two separate issues. So the fee is the fee because we have to pay the third party and we have to make sure that our legal is paid and our engineers are paid when they're reviewing the land development and uh any other professional that has to be paid. But what we can do which is a cost as well when we do get all the reviewers there it means that um they don't have to going back and forth that time is a cost as well. So that actually um eliminates the back and forth which could cost more. So by having all the professionals there ahead of time and providing feedback at that meeting really reduces the time of going back and forth which would cost a lot of money.

So that's for for the um applicant.

Durham, you know I love you right? You know I love our school district. Where I'm concerned is like we are not East Norton. We are not West Narton. The impacts to our budgets are crucial and we that means rep prioritizing dollar cents that are so vital in processes like this and I just want to voice a general concern in that in the name of organizational transition. We're in the very beginning of a big 10-year process. I would love more reassurance in that there is a clear path forward for the process. Leadership changes in the middle of big moments. There's a lot of uncertainty and this is a big bill to foot and if we foot it and we do these waiverss and we pay this third party and a year from now you decide you don't want to go any further than where you are right now. That's concerning to me to to try to navigate that money at that place.

So So one thing I can I can assure you uh Councilwoman Robinson the land development fee that we are talking about is specific to the Hancock project. That is something that is going to be completed this summer. This spring and summer this project is happening. the future projects that are going to come the the Eisenhower edition and the uh the work that we'll do in in terms of the formal additions at the other elementarymentaries those are separate projects that we have not even begun yet uh those will be phases four five and six of the uh of the facility plan those are going to be years two through potentially 10 of the project so all we're asking for is a waiver this specific to a project that is happening this spring and this summer right now and if you don't get the waiver it will still happen this spring and this summer that

is correct Oh god. Um, so you said the waivers only for Hancock specifically, correct? Does that mean there's a possibility that you would come back to us for waiverss for anything else?

Uh, we we we may in the future. Uh, but again, right now, I think part of this and trying to uh do some consolidation because like you said, part of the part of the fee waiver also allows a little bit of that consolidation process uh to to accelerate for us. Um, again, this is a very time-sensitive project. As uh we're looking, as Kennedy Kendrick continues to populate, as many of the other uh as our enrollment continues to grow, uh we need to make sure that these projects are on time and that this Hancock project is ready to go in, uh that we're ready to open in August. And we want to make sure that remove as many barriers as we can with the consolidation that we can do a spring summer and that those 10 additional learning spaces at Hancock are ready to go for the opening of of school in August 26.

And I I do just have to add I don't believe it's correct that East Norton wave the fees for the land development because I don't believe that they wave fees for um uh third parties. I believe they only wave fees for in-house. So, I don't believe that that is accurate, but that's just my thought. Just curious, um, you know, like where in the budget would these funds come from? And if we were to allocate these funds to the specific call from you, so it wouldn't affect the constituent body. Say that again. It wouldn't affect like our constituent body. Like if we were to allocate these funds,

they go over the budget of what we've assigned for professionals. So um if you keep chipping at it, it may go over budget. So that's how it might be affected. Thanks, Council. Any other questions? I do have just a couple more questions. I want to make sure that I'm fully understanding the be the is it a fair statement that the biggest savings here for your district side is time.

So yes, the again the the the courtesy of having this phase, sure saving $11,000 is to me a great gesture. Uh but really we're looking for that in addition to the time that we're going to pick up. And I I want to honor the I would love to be courteous. There are moments when that's not always feasible. Uh respectable. Respectable always, but courteous. I don't know. I'm just wondering because I'm trying to understand this process a little better. Is there a world where these fees can be a rebate? Perhaps you pay now you pay upfront and at the completion of project there is a rebate. Is there a possible chance for a supplement? Can we do it at a discounted rate? I'm going to look at the solicitor. I'm going to look at all of you.

Or is it only is it only one way? I just don't understand. Is it we pay or they pay or nothing at all? You are re can't do rebates. We can't do rebates. No, that's not provided under wall. But we can wave you can choose not to wave the fee. You can wave the fee. We could wave part of the fee if you wanted to. Yeah. So you you can do a partial if you wanted to. How is that determined? Up to you.

Do you have a deadline on when you need this information? Uh I I would say so you know we we came tonight because we are in that hitting that time-sensitive portion of where we're trying to get the consolidated meeting together. Um we we are working with shock and with our with our vendors to already schedule excavation and all that. I know it's hard to think about excavating land when there's a foot of frozen tundra on on the sites right now. Uh but uh you know all those things are being scheduled right now. And again uh this is just another factor in the timeline of of the of the total project. Thank you. I don't have any further questions. Go ahead. Council man, what's [clears throat] the the total cost of the Hancock project expansion?

Uh, Mr. Car, correct me if I'm about 4.2 about $4.2 million?

Other questions? Seeing none. Uh, so do I have a motion to approve the fee waivers for the land develop for the permit for land development for the Northtown Area School District.

Are we allowed to confer while before the motion happens? So again, do I have a motion to move?

I can We can do that. Correct. You gave me a weird look. All right. Okay. Is there a second? Is there a second? Then I will second it. Madam Secretary McCoy, no. Dear Robinson, no. Natalie Coulson, no. Jasmine Griffin, no. David McMahon, no. Shod Bates, no. Motion fails. Motion fails. Thank you. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion. Second. All in favor? I meeting adjourned.