Community Planning & Transportation Committee - Regular Meeting

Hey, we just ahead of time you said on the place on East Lindsay. Yeah, I think I remember the only time I've been there is when we did the sales tax. We actually All right, everybody. It is 4 o'clock. We are live. So, we'll go ahead and get started with the community planning and transportation committee meeting for two Thursday, February 26th, 2026. And we have four items on the agenda. And um staff did just let me know there was a problem with the system and getting the agenda p the attachments published, but they are now on there for anybody uh that needs that. Um the first item on the agenda is presentation of January public transit report. We have Taylor here with city staff to lead that discussion.

Thank you, mayor and council members. Uh this item on the screen is the second agenda item, so we'll get to that. The first as always is the the memo that you guys have in your packet. Um going over some updates for the transit program and our services. Um there's the general stuff in there just the ongoing uh data about our vehicle maintenance and vehicle procurement. Um which we're happy to say that we're only have one bus that's should be replaced that's not on order and we'll see if we can get to that um next fiscal year. Um, I will say there was an update on our three big buses that are on order. Um, due to, and this will get into the budget discussion a little bit, but due to tariffs, the the manufacturer Gillig got an amendment through the state of Washington contract to potentially pass along some costs to us even though we have our buses on order. So, we might see that a year from now when those buses are being built. So just uh putting that out on on radar and that could be a potential budget impact for next fiscal year when they go to the assembly line.

Where are they made in um California? And it starts with an L. I don't remember the town now. Just east of San Francisco parts. It's probably teriff on parts. Yeah. On parts and goods United States or they're assembled in the United States. I should say that it's uh up to but depending on what it is at the time that's and it would be a request. So those are things we'll have to work with and I just

we just talked about that today and so it's a it's a really recent update. So still figuring that out but of course want to keep that top of mind. Um I'll honestly move to the writership because I know we have a lot of other things on the agenda. Uh for January for the for Embark Norman, we had uh just shy of 35,000 rides and last January we were almost at 40,000. Um for the service as a whole uh comparing the ser service dates from January to January, we had one less weekday in J this January plus there was four uh weather days compared to one last January. So I think that has to do with why we dipped this past month. Um obviously the snow doesn't help when people have to inherently walk to and from bus stops and things. So uh but we did go down um interestingly plus ridership actually increased by about a thousand. So um we'll keep monitoring that and watching for that. Uh and then also interestingly the bikes and other mobility devices increased from 6068 last January to 926. So even with the snow and those weather days, we still saw more bikes and other mobility bices on our buses, which is a good thing.

Pretty significant increase in the airport traffic, too. 21% on the uh route many Friday. Yep. Yep. So there was a little bit of increase on that route. And then u because there's such heavily ridden ridership on the East Lindsay route and that that can have to do with if the university closes obviously that route has a lot of apartment complexes on it and I'm sure it's a fixed student population but yeah there were some increases but uh overall we did see that decrease so 29.7% total for Saturday fixed route and every route shows an increase

uh west timer being 92%. Yeah. And I think that has to do with so we had one less weekday of service but one more Saturday of service. So we kind of traded those and but overall we saw a decrease probably with that. Okay.

On the wrership as a whole. And then for Norman on demand um really quickly the last uh performance report in this in this packet we had uh 1813 riders in January compared to 3272 last January. Um, again, just feeling out the the rate increase that was implemented in September. Um, and just really letting that service settle in because it is that on demand service though, the operator uh, VIA is able to scale back on hours of service. So, we are hopefully going to see a little bit of savings by the end of the fiscal year for this contract. But, if they do notice an increase in in ridership, they can ramp it back up. they just kind of um hold hold that pulse really tightly so that way they can modify it as they go week to week. So

I feel like I'm not seeing them on campus anymore. Well, yeah,

I'm happy to end this item and go to the next one if you're ready.

Any questions about transit writership reports? So, the second item is a fiscal year 2027 fund fund 27 transit budget discussion. Um, I thought I'd do like a quick spin around in my chair for this and the next item. Um, we're just going to run through kind of some history uh where we're showing the projections uh for next year and then talk about some of the things we've been talking about for the last six or seven or eight months um that you all kind of wanted us to flush out as an expense possibly, but get some direction on next year's budget. Uh I know we've been talking a lot about general fund, but ours is impacted by sales tax as well. So there's some things to consider. Um, so some of the history with the transition of the of the transit service from OU that happened July 2019. There's a bit of timeline before that, but that's the effective date. And we began that first year of contract with with Embark operations. I mentioned the public transit sales tax that passed in November of 2019. So, we were really busy that first year or two doing things like this while also standing up a transit program. Um, but that uh we're happy to say passed with I think about 72% approval rating. Uh really robust campaign and it was actually a um just a reminder a quarter of a cent was coming offline from the building of the county jail that the county had and they were only going to request an eighth or a half of that from the voters. So, I think every city in the county um looked for a proposition to ask the voters to um fund something else and this is what council decided on at the time.

And uh if I recall, this transition had not really been done before. and uh took a couple years or a year and a half or so. Act of Congress, governor's signature is what it took for us to even get to the point where we could ask voters to approve a sales tax because of federal funding allocation. Yeah, it was quite the process. It was a big to-do. And my memory is it was I think I wasn't here at the time, but the city received a letter August 2018, so it was less than a year, I think, to really mobilize and get it going. It was a fast fast track. So still haunts some of our dream or nightmares, you know. Um and getting Congress on something.

This is really and there's another slide after this, but uh we did a lot of work after that just to stand it up and and get things going. But that initial goal stabilize the service. I just wanted to add never missed a day of service. The day we ended OU and the day the city took it over, it did not stop running. They've given us a little bit of time frame with a little heads up. So, we're able to to maneuver in advance

and we're able to to do it. I was on the edges of it. I wasn't directly in the middle of it, but it was a large undertaking and very impressive that it was able to be done in the time frame it was. And thankfully, OU was willing to work with us even after that transition. We leased space from them at their garage for a while. Um they actually ran the paratransit service for three additional months after that date even though we were technically paying them to operate it. So there was they they were good partners in that transition transfer station on campus kept using that until we found spot.

Um so yeah we stabilized the service and as we were going along we we I mentioned the vehicle replacement in the last item but we're close to doing that. There was a lot of work that first two or three years to get grants and get those vehicles purchased and in the fleet. Um almost every vehicle we inherited needed to be replaced or was going to obviously be replaced to be replaced in the next few years. Um very quickly um we realized that we needed to update our long-range transit plan local plan and we went through that process uh for about a year and got it adopted in June of 2021. on the go Norman transit plan. We uh built uh and moved into a new operations maintenance facility, what we call the transit public safety maintenance facility up there on North Base in January 2022. Uh scraping together funding and uh we had some CARES Act dollars for transit that we were able to allocate about 5.1 million that really saved that uh combined project with Norman Forward for the parks maintenance facility. Just a really unique project. So uh got that done. We one of the main ticket items we needed to really get the transit operations going and then as was mentioned we moved to the Norman transit center in October 2023 after continuing to use the Brook Street location

maintenance facility is it it also works on all of our big trucks right it works on fire trucks yeah so it's it yeah so it's it's the emergency PSST also put some funding in so it's the fire trucks and then all of the the transit fleet and then the other large vehicles the other trash trucks and other large equipment is actually on the north side of Da Vinci at the old flick facility. Yeah. But it did um it did help because the fire trucks were being taken care of at that north facility. So they we had more space, may able to move around and gain some

gain some square footage, especially for trains obviously because we had no facility and weren't we had nowhere to put them. Um continued history. Uh as we were going through this process, we tried to make incremental gains in the service. Uh um Council Member Hullman or Mayor Hullman, I'm sorry, may remember that Saturday service was discontinued about a year before we took it over, I believe. And then a year after we took it over, we reinstituted it, which uh was a great addition. Um we didn't have any uh weekend service at that point. We initialized uh fundamental route changes with the new transit center going from those large looped routes to more birectional routes uh which we think led to some of the gain in writership and more user-friendly service um with some hiccup or some some cut cuts that we had to make in areas which was hard but we we worked through those and I think we came up with a better service but some areas did have to be cut and then added frequency on route 112 which was added uh in October 2024. for so and then the uh one of the more bigger uh items that we added was the microtransit service known as Norman on demand in August 2023. Um after about a year or so of discussion with council on microtransit service in general, we came up with this late night service and Sunday service uh for microtransit which is really minivans uh on a more uh transportation network company type of model of book it on the app. They'll come to the curb and pick you up and take you where you need to go. and we partner with the OU student affairs office uh for that. Uh Jordan Motti is here actually representing um I appreciate him being here and it Sunday service is actually the first priority in the go Norman transit plan. So we were able to check that box as long as that service is is operating.

That was a idea of two council members that could not have been more different and really didn't like each other very much but they uh came together to push for that. That's how you know. But

so these are some of these aren't formal. These are more of what Taylor's come to understand over the last six, seven years of our transit budget goals. So self- sustaining, no general fund subsidy if we can. Um that has been hit or miss. Uh things happen, we have to figure them out and we've been appreciative of council's support, but that's that's the goal. Increase service incrementally like I talked about. Um, and then try to seek grant funding, which we've been really good at the capital funding, and that's really competitive, and that's what's generally available. There isn't a lot of operating competitive dollars out there. And even if there is, it's two maybe three years of operating dollars, and then you have to foot the bill. So, capital, unfortunately, is much easier to come along uh come by for grant funding,

which would be the purchase of new fleet, purchase of buses, the cutaways, right? Those items are what have been very successful in doing with a plate replacement. Yep. If we have facility needs, we can potentially go after those as well through the capital funding.

Getting into next year's uh fund fund 27, which is the transit and parking fund projections. I'm not going to go through every revenue and expense, but you can see on the left our line share of our revenues is the uh FTA section 5307 grant a portionment 2.8 million almost 2.9 million now. And then the sales and use tax through that 1/8 of a cent um dedicated. Uh there's some other miscellaneous ODOT, Norman Regional, and bus stop advertising. We get to about 6.9 million in uh revenues. The expenses are what we're looking at next year for fleet repair transit. Um it's about 700,000. Staff um fleet staff have done a great job of really putting pen to u paper and trying to identify some savings. Uh and we've actually been able to identify quite quite a bit. You can see there about 103,000 to some operating expenses. So we are cutting some of our sublet things like that where we take repairs outside. Um, and then also, and some of those gains are because the fleet is so new now. As the fleet gets older, that might change the dynamic, but and then there's a transit service technician that uh because the fleet got newer, we don't necessarily need as much staff time to take care of the buses that we're proposing that we could eliminate to save some dollars rather than budget that position that hasn't been filled. So, that adds up to about 170,000 in savings that we're going to propose. uh transit and parking administration. That's about 753,000 um for city staff time, but um also includes some other miscellaneous items like our uh we do in service accounts. So that our fleet uh fuel and stuff like that is built into that. It's kind of build um to the parent department or parent cost center. But getting into the weeds, uh Embark's contract is projected to be about 4.9 million or just shy of

that for next year. And that does include an increase of about 210,000 for fiscal year 27 staff increases uh similar to what we experienced around here with step step and merit and things like that insurance. So with that uh when we compare what we think the revenues and expenses are going to be for next year we get to about $589,000 that um we haven't budgeted. And uh I just want to put the caveat with that asterk that if we did utilize it, which we'll talk about on the next slide, we wouldn't have any fund balance for fund 27, which I think is worth noting. And that that current surplus is about 9.3 of budgeted expenses. And I made sure to check with uh Kim and Clint, and we try to do a target of about 8% for our funds uh that aren't the general fund. So just something to keep in mind. I don't know that we've ever really talked about fund balance for fund 27 since I've been here. So, I think it's probably worth talking about. Things come up, things happen, and then unfortunately, we have to go to council and ask to potentially borrow or use general fund money. And we, like I said, in the budget goals is try to avoid that. I mean, as an example, this year we had the transit bus the that was struck by another vehicle uninsured and because we'd use FTA funds, the choices were either pay the FTA back for that

or we buy a new one. Well, this is where that money would have come from. Instead, we had to come to council and ask for an appropriation to do that. Yeah, there should be some kind of protection for that. And we are uh my understanding from legal seeking way better or something restitution. Um but um who knows what happens with that and they didn't have insurance. Yeah. $50 a month for 140 years.

Yeah, correct. But um those are just the things that happen. We mentioned the tariff charges for the three big buses. That's something we're going to have to deal with next year potentially that we're not budgeted for um unfortunately. So here's a a pretty big slide to digest. So we'll go through it try to go through it quickly but one by one of the things that aren't budgeted that we've talked about uh this fiscal year potentially for next fiscal year. So obviously Norman on demand continuation we've heard from our contractor that uh for a full 12 months of service it'd be about $650,000 and that is with the assumption that um the demand will stay at or maybe a little above what we're currently at. So, um they are trying to keep it as low as possible. Um this fiscal year, the university contributed um just over 131,000 as you can see there. And we while we would have to contract the 650,000 at the onset of the year as we go through and um the university helps pay for it, we would see a a cost of about 518,000 at the end of the day. So, uh, and I want I should have put this number on this next slide, but just thinking, keep that $590,000, uh, budget surplus just in the back of your mind as we go through these items.

The other potent This is in addition to the expenses you have listed. Yes, correct. Because the microransit um, Norman on demand isn't in the budget, so that's why it's kind of off on the side with these other items.

Uh, we've talked about Route 110. That's kind of the next goal in the Go Norman transit plan of adding that frequency. Got a cost estimate from Embark plus from fleet staff on maintenance and fuel and that's where we got the about 335,000 to add that frequency and that would take that out from an route from an hourong frequency to a 30-minute frequency similar to what we did for uh Lindsay West or Route 112 which is is a is a great um addition for the riders if you can ever increase frequency. This third bullet is a is a new one. So, um much like us, uh Oklahoma City and and Embark OKC is filling budget crunches. So, they're looking at ways to save costs. And it was um been tossed around the last couple weeks, few weeks of possibly uh decreasing or discontinuing the route 24 between Oklahoma City and Norman. So, we wouldn't have a a route between the two cities anymore. However, I'm being told that uh they think they figured out a way to fund it for another year. Um if we're able to assist them with funding in the upcoming year, they would love that. Uh we used to split the cost when I was at OU. It would used to be run actually half by OU and half by Embark. And uh when we started um about a year in, I think the the Embark OKC grunch took it over completely. And um since then we we've been um not helping fund that. But all that to be said, uh that might be another budget consideration for FY28 that we need to keep in mind if if uh sales tax dollars continue to drop and um we continue working with Embark on what that route looks like. Right. So

is uh how how is OKC embarked by the city of OKC entirely and maybe fairs but I doubt that. So, uh, I have some representatives from Embark here, uh, KB, who's the chief of bus operations or assistant director now of operations, I'm sorry. Um, he could probably help us answer that, but they get grants from FTA just like we do, and um, they get fair revenue, but I think they do get a a general fund subsidy from the city that help fund it. Yeah. And the city is of OKC is maybe pulling back a little bit or Yeah, we feeling the the crunch from sales revenue reduction. So

in Oklahoma City Oklahoma City is seeing a sales tax reduction too. Oklahoma City is seeing is having difficulty with sales tax. Yeah, it's surprising. It's fascinating. Um thank you for that. Um, okay. Council, I was just going to make the comment that hopefully the runway on that issue is only two or three years because hopefully we have an RTA coming online in that time frame, which when that does, I think we can phase that route out.

And I should note that it was already uh cut in service last summer um due to budget constraints on the Embarco side. So, uh it went from about 75 people a day that ride it to about 50 people per day because of those cuts. And then um to the point about RTA if they get going I think the current timeline is probably uh being generous seven or 10 years but point is well taken. I think that route is a bridge until something more robust comes along. That's also the social security route that is not social security route is separate. Um so that that's been something we've talked about and bounced around for a long time is if we could incorporate it on there or not. Yeah, that one could stop there. that would

and we might explore that more into the future. We've we've talked about that more. Um we don't want to bog down an express route too much. Get people to and from OKC to Norman as fast as possible, but also if we could do that as one stop. We could also consider it only doing a couple times a week, similar to what we do with the social security route. But we've we've talked about that.

Uh last fall we we tossed around maybe increasing security services at the transit center. Um, right now they're provided eight hours a day, Monday through Saturday. You can see there this proposal of an additional 28,000 through Embark using their uh security contractor would expand it to the entire entire service span. So 15 hours a day Monday through Friday and then eight hours on on Saturday. So the entire time we operate and that would allow the bathroom to stay open potentially. I think uh that's the caveat we give with leaving the bathrooms closed is security's not on site. So we could definitely consider that. I think is the lobby still open when there's not security though just not the restroom. Just not the restroom. Yeah. Council Bruce

I'm just thinking I'm doing some math in my head. I'm just cost associate with micro transfer per per ride. You have that roughly uh I wish I would have thought of it beforehand. I uh did the quick math um a little bit before this meeting. I think it's approximately 21 $22 per rider. So per per ride, I guess. Not per ride. Rider. Yeah, per ride. Yeah, because there could be multiple people on the the vehicle. Yeah, per

um I was curious where did we start out with microch transit as far as like a budget and range or coverage?

So this was literally like I think a year-long conversation we had with council was brought up and we kicked it around. And then we actually hired a consultant to think through well if we did microtransit what's the best use of that service. Um so we we landed on after council study sessions and and looking at the current service at the late night trying to serve those late night workers um and on Sunday service since we didn't have any Sunday service and the zone we left up to the uh RFP um proposers. So that's where we we got the the initial zone and it's kind of been tweaked and expanded over time, but um

we had added a Noble Parkway last year area and uh we've added I think a little bit in Southeast Norman. Um so but initially it was it was quite a bit of conversations with council um to get to the point of when we needed out for an RFP. Um, I was just wondering about um if we might need to walk back as many places as it goes or uh bring down the budget a little bit on it. Um, just thinking about Yeah, that's 518,000, but you said the surplus was 5,89. Yeah. Yeah. 590.

Yeah. So, and then thinking about our other potential expenses because I do think the transit center being open and having bathroom access is pretty important, too. Um, and I know I hear from downtown uh businesses in that area about the heartache they have when they have people who are not their customers using their bathroom. Um, so just trying to find balance uh given the money we have to work with. Um, but I hate to walk back on demand, but I do know if we do the RTA, doesn't that expand again?

The micro Yeah. microtransit options and coverage. Um, so the you might be thinking of the central Oklahoma long range transit plan, which isn't necessarily just RTA, what we what we went through with ACOG last year. It does propose more microtransit zones in the metro plus expanding ours, but that wouldn't necessarily be funding from the RTA. Okay. It's just an a thought, an idea.

Yeah. I or maybe we find somebody else like OU like I don't know or Norman that might want to pay into it and expand coverage because they I don't know. Uh is there any part of where the expansion happened that is not getting the use suites on it would get?

So um we could look at that. I think uh size of the zone matters a little bit because if you're traveling from one end to the other than it takes up that driver in that vehicle longer to get to and from. So we could definitely look at that. I think it's we could look at the hours. Um but uh so we do 7:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. Monday through Wednesday and then go to 3:00 p.m. Thursday, Friday, and Saturday with the partnership with OU for safe ride services. And then on Sunday we do 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. So we could look at shaving those hours down and that's probably what will help. Um we could also just uh there's some KPIs in our budget in our performance report. If we cut um hours of service, then those KPIs would potentially be affected negatively. So wait times would go up and things like that. So,

um, there's there's some triggers we can pull, but it will probably impact the service one way or another, which to your point if we need to save dollars, which well, and I was looking at embark well and I was like, uh, I don't know if we'll get the grant or not, but it's also like, oh, how would you pick that up an extra hundred,000, right, if you're not getting any grant money,

right? And we we are waiting on that embark well uh grant notification. We still are pretty confident. seems like a great program that totally fits with the the the goals of that program. Um, but I think you're asking the right questions. You know, where where do we want to how do we want to divide the pie to make it fit and leave something there to where we have availability in the next budget year to be able to do things that impact or benefit the program as a whole.

Yeah. And this is one of the uh the well program through TE settle settlement endowment trust uh grant program. That's a good example of they'll fund two to three years of service but then if we want to keep it we have to foot the bill right. So So if we get this grant we can expect to have this for the next two to three years. Yeah. We submitted for a three-year project $100,000 per year. So Well, I hope we get it. Yeah. It'd be good. It'd be a good addition to the transit system. Are you um able to Can you tell us the cost of Embark Plus zone 2?

Um, I can't off the top of my head, but we can surely dig into that. Uh, I don't we don't really have a ton. Larry, you and KB, you can correct me. I don't know that the demand in Zo2 is a lot, but there certainly is a cost to it. I I don't know if it's probably the amount of money that you're hoping it is. It's not what I want to cut. It's just um covering 200 square miles when we're only required to cover maybe correct the the urban area plus what is it again a mile. It's 3/4 of a mile as the crow flies around this fixed route.

So it would only actually we only have to cover it probably to 24th maybe 36th Avenue but we cover the entire city limits with it. And there's people with this, you know, mobility challenge, disabilities that live past the lake that use it probably, but um having an idea what that does cost to provide it to the entire city limits. Maybe it's not very much, but if we're thinking about the entire transit budget and what everything costs, I think that would be helpful. Okay. How did Yeah. Council Bruce,

how the cost saving relationship or the cost the ratio split out How did how did that come out with OU and the city as far as the ratio? I mean, how does that work?

Yeah. So, uh the first year and we're in year three. The first year was really I think what the university could provide um which was about 120,000 I think the first year. So last year we we looked at it from the writership perspective and um it looked like U writership was I think 1920% and that's where the 131 came from. Um, I'm pretty sure, sorry I'm getting my my uh dates and everything mixed up with how many years we've done microtransit, but uh that's kind of where we've been tackling it is how much U ridership is there and can the university contribute that much and we track that because uh to get free safe ride rides the u they have to register uh for the service with their U email address. So we're very confident in what the U ridership is specifically. So,

and then I have uh just a final slide of hey, we want to confirm those budget goals. Um, and I listed in that that slide of trying to stick away from the general fund um as much as possible, especially in years like next year where we know that there isn't really any general fund to be had for anyone. Um while it would be a target, uh do we want to really commit to a general uh fund 27 reserve fund target? And then um obviously what we've been talking about that last slide is some direction on best usage of that uh surplus, we'll call it, of 590,000 for next fiscal year. And um is it is it uh what we talked about microransit microtransit maybe a little less service? Is it saving it at all in reserve fund? These are things that we

on the revenues from the previous slide. It doesn't have the ow contribution on there. That's and that's because the expense isn't on there. So,

and uh just to further complicate things, obviously we're in February, so fiscal year starts July 1. um whatever direction we get here today, we'll work quickly to try to um work towards. Um the university obviously has a stake in this and and whatever um direction we get, they'll have to pivot potentially. So, we just wanted to come to you guys as soon as we could to get that direction after we work through the budget projections and and see what you guys thought. Um, I know for me, I would probably hold off on the Main Street frequency increase. Um, if we can get by another year of them funding the RAP 24, that would be helpful. and then maybe think about a phased maybe next year it's 25,000 and then 50 and then and then we can get up to covering half of it or whatever we think our share would be or how many people from Norman are using it how many people from OKCU whatever

yeah you know whatever's fair there we can definitely spend time talking through that next next year get into it and then the I'd be supportive of the transit center security part it's a low cost I think it would have a big benefit agree the well hopefully ideally get that grant funded but we are hearing from seniors citizens people over 50 apparently in Norman's definition that at the awe that that the uh that the embark well could potentially help address the

transit because you brought that up I do want to state that my understanding is the sidewalk repairs we did on the north side of Johnsonwellness way depending on what you want to call it, have been completed. Okay.

So, the route from the existing bus stop to there is you they'll be able to take that. They'll be able to cross the street, come in on the north side of the the building and not have to go all the way around to the street, all the way back through the parking lot to make it a much easier route. And uh my understanding is that work has been completed on the sidewalk. And it's while there are areas that I wish were in a little better shape, we got rid of the the most significant uh problems uh with working with uh the the hospital, but we did that as part of our sidewalk program to try to get better access to the well for our seniors from the existing bus stop and to the existing bus stop. That's great. I'll check that out and let everybody know at the odd that that happens.

We're gonna we're going to reach out to them and we also have our ADA citizens meeting coming up where Taylor will or or Jason, whoever's attending that one, we'll be able to share that information at that also. But, uh, exciting news that we're able to do something there, an incremental step to get us much closer and close the gaps. Yeah.

And I same agree with the comments from Council Grant about the on demand. Um, there is a demand for it looks like, but it is very expensive. Um, and, uh, we may need to look at how to cut that back a little bit. to fit it into that surplus budget somehow. So, keep it going, but maybe it's not as robust as we have it right now, unfortunately. But, um, so that probably be my position on it. Any other council Dixon?

Thank you, sir. Um, I'd say on this list, I agree with Council Member Grant. Uh, the Transit Center security services increase. Um, and then I'd be willing to do the Norman Express and then I'd like to put above that to just to the surplus. I mean, $21 a ride, that's that's extremely expensive on the on demand. It's it's crazy expensive and it competes against, you know, local Norman residents who are Uber drivers, um, who actually do it cheaper. Um. Mhm.

So that's where I would be. I'd like to fund the transit center security and the rural express. My thoughts.

I would just note that maybe part of the reason why the expense there is on the on demand is ADA accessible vehicles and Uber and Lift don't typically nobody that has that vehicle is doing Uber and Lift. So that was one of the motivations for why council member Studley and council member Lynn came up with this was we had ADA advocates saying we want to we want to be able plus you have to schedule a day in advance and we want to be able to go where we want to go right now and Uber and Lift the private sector is not answering that call and uh so that's how we kind of came up with that and maybe that's part of contribute because the vehicles are ADA accessible but

and that's Taylor's Just quick back of the napkin math. Let me go back and confirm those numbers, you know. And do we have a number of negatively per seat the ADA riders? Mhm. Yeah, that's in the report. Uh sorry, I I skimmed over that. I'll find it. No, it's okay. It's a quick quick grab. So, uh, so far this fiscal year we've had and they have to, uh, specifically request the wheelchair accessible vehicle or they can click a button that they always request one, but we've had 140 riders so far this fiscal year that have utilized the weight vehicles, riders or rides,

uh, trips, but uh, they'll take usually if they're in mobility, it'll take up the majority of the vehicle, right? Um, but let me put let me make sure I go back and really get that math right so I'm not um overestimating. But I will also say I think it was very uh prudent of council to go through the process with a consultant for the microtransit and for us to go forward with the late night service and the Sunday service really expanding that transit s capacity and and um service span because uh late night service on on big buses uh you know it's hard to get everywhere and this

while it seems inefficient um a big bus would probably be more inefficient. So if we're going to provide late, this is probably the way to go if that makes sense. And we've also talked about the potential for Embark Plus to evolve into a more on demand with software upgrades or whatever and that would be able to address the issue that our kind of goal was. Yep. And we've uh we've been that's one of been one of the bullet points talking with MR2 is eventually can we get to that goal of sort of possibly having an same day service. Yeah. So trans

I was just curious so what does it cost to extend the hours that we run the buses? Um, so like instead of 10 p.m. ending at 11 p.m. Yeah. I was just thinking about those late night, you know, workers that have whatever shift. Um

um well if we if we did it till 1:00 a.m. every single night and then three on the Thursday, Friday, Saturday, it it'd probably be more expensive than $600,000 cuz you know four five buses uh each bus has a driver and then the maintenance and fuel on that just it would add up pretty quickly. Um, and for sure Sunday service. So, it's one thing to ext expand service on the same day. Um, but when you start um adding service on Sundays, you're just you're adding a whole another day for lack of a better term. It's just a lot more complications.

Expensive uh to do on demand, it's still a bit cheaper than trying to pick it up with regular service, right? I I would argue that's probably the case, especially for late late night service like that. Supposed to fill in gaps where the fixed route doesn't go or when it doesn't run or it doesn't make sense. Yeah. But yeah, we do have to think about and and then on the Sunday service thing, we currently get by with not providing fleet services over the weekend. Um that's only one day that we provide big bus service on Saturdays. If we start getting to the Sunday, it's like, do we need to have weekend fleet service? Maybe, right? just in case something comes on or happens. So,

yeah, we do know that the general fund is uh probably not going to have the ability to give anybody a subsidy. So, correct. Uh that surplus that we show right there is going to be what we have and that would like you said not leave nothing left if we use it all. Further council Gans just also say is that's great that y'all were forward thinking enough to have a surplus there or situations like this when it's a tighter year we have something to fall back on that y'all help make sure was there.

So just to make sure I heard correctly um we for sure want to add the 28,000 for the Norman Transit Center security increases. Uh for microransit, it would be preferred that we cut that service if we could to save some dollars, but we want to go ahead and and put that forth in the budget next year. Save plan for it and maybe we'll have a big windfall over the next four or five months. Everything will be great. Council Bruce and then PE the uh the idea of embark plus expanding that to capture the type of micro transit for those that uh need additional assistance.

I mean I think it's a great idea. I think it's a great idea. Of the 650,000 that we paid for that service, does the rider pay anything? They do $3 a fair trip. dollar per additional dollar per addition dollar per person. So Scott and I went somewhere together be $4.

And that is credited on our monthly invoices. So we are seeing some savings from that. I think it's about2 to 3,000 a month if I was right. Yeah, last time I looked. Besides the scratching the need associated with uh people that need assistance in writing, whether or need we're trying to scratch a microtransit,

the late night service worker um stock shelf stalkers, things like that. Uh we may take them earlier in the day to their job earlier in the afternoon, but um because we ended at 10 p.m. with the regular service, we had no way to get them home. So they'd have to take an Uber or walk or bike or whatever. Um, and that was the reasoning for the the late night service. Uh, plus the Sunday service was added because we just didn't have any Sunday service. So, see me I'm just I'm just talking out loud. No, no offense to anyone, but the well program pilot if that those funds were like no, we're not going to get those. Well, that that well program is far more important in my mind. I think I think elderly stuff of that nature using the well program. Am I correct? High demand for elderly using the well program.

Is that correct? Well, it could be correct. We haven't operated it before. So, uh we're hearing that it would be in demand, but we don't we can't tell you the exact number, right? obviously and Embark has done uh this was last fall um uh had did some number crunching but uh we would pilot this program if we got the funding on a hey we can do this much and then we'd see what demand get really so but they've had a pretty good track record and every year they've done it in Oklahoma City it's gone up in demand and uh I think it's very popular so

well I I can see why it would be pretty popular I really I really can't but you know, is it is it an absolute need compared to, you know, a want, you know, I understand would be an absolute need for those people that can't afford a weighted ADM in park plus I can't afford to waited a day. You know, I'm unable to drive because my physical handicaps or my inability. I understand that. in Embark. Well, we we've talked about last fall that it would um serve people that couldn't utilize Embark Plus because you have to be uh you have to be uh go through the criteria and be approved for it. But if you are on Embark Plus, you could also be um approved for Embark well and that might help Embark Plus free up some some capacity. So, it it could be a really good program. It's just it always comes down to dollars and cents for anything that we operate in the city. And unfortunately, that's where we're at. That's crunch the crunch. No, the crunch ear.

What is the Quantis cruiser? I mean, what is the service they provide? Just for refresher on that because we do contribute funding to it. So, so the Quantis cruiser, it gets funding um through the uh aging services uh funding. Yeah. And I think Embark and for Oklahoma County actually receives that funding, provides services through it. Um but for Cleveland County, that's where they get it. um through the Quantis Cruiser and it um is pretty uh general. I think it just provides uh uh rides to elderly um folks in our community if I'm right. KB Jason, do you It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I'm pretty sure it's just generally elderly. Uh

well, it kind of got me thinking about what is there similarity in the Embark Well and the Quantis Cruiser potentially. Potentially, but embark well would be very targeted. So that way we're we're trying to meet some goals like wellness for seniors. Yeah. I would also think that it'll get

I was just curious if the is the microtransit program still viable if we just reduce it down to kind of its core functions of ADA and late night access. Do we still have a program at that point or is it or does the cost to operate become I'm sure there's an economy of scale here and so if we just do ADA rides and late night rides do we lose out on that economy of scale and has become so expensive at that point that it's not viable? Well, I don't know if that's what we were proposing but that's good clarification. Um, I think we were just talking about how we could decrease it in general. So, hours wise or whatever. But yeah, I think if we're just providing and it depends on what you call late night. So, instead of starting at 7 p.m., do we start just at

eight or nine? How much money does that save? But I think if we just uh provide ADA rides and safe ride rides, that might not accomplish what we want to accomplish. So, um, we'll definitely go go back if that's council's direction is to keep doing micro transit and try to cut the budget. Um, but we really need to plan for that today because uh, again, partners at OU, they need to pivot if we're not going to do it at all potentially. And then we we need to make sure we get all our ducks in a row contracting wise with OU and with uh, with the operator if that's something we're going to continue to do. So, I don't know if that answers your question, but it does. I think I took the direct direction to go back to the operator and OU and say, "Okay, what can we decrease and how much will that save us?"

That's really where I'm at. I'm supportive of the program, but if we could make it more efficient and streamline it any way possible to save some money, then yeah,

I have heard from the operator. So, if we start cutting days, so Monday and Tuesday aren't well ridden, then we start getting into, well, transit riders really depend on consistency. So maybe they don't ride every Monday, but if they know it operates Monday through Saturday at 7:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m., for example, it's probably more user friendly because, and the great thing about Norman on Demand is because it's on demand, they can only run one or two vehicles a night, but on the busy nights, they can run three, four, five, right? So, we'll go back to the contractor, see how much we can potentially um decrease to keep the program running. But uh as it stands on here um just the quick math again we'd have to fund the whole thing but at the end of the year we'd have about 70,000 left over with the surplus that's projected. Um if you add the transit center security services about 28,000 um we get down to about a 40,000 surplus. So it's like last year where we had a big we were very close dollars and cents on the transit budget. And again, because things came up like the vehicle, we had to request general fund. And depending on how things go next year, we we might not we'd have to potentially put off buying that bus, right? And ask FTA to give us a a leniency to wait until next fiscal year to buy it potentially, right? There's things that come up. The the Gillig bus purchase that we might need additional funding for, we're going to have to find that funding of a of about 5% if it comes to fruition. So

well and it's not mandated that the public transit fund be self- sustaining. That's just been our goal and many other funds in the city are subsidized by the general fund in some sense PSS and and others. Um and before the transit tax, the city's general the general fund was contributing 500 to $700,000 a year to transit to that. So that's helped relieve the general fund somewhat of that. So but yeah, preference of trying to make it self- sustaining and I think that helps make the case to the general public for why it's worth it. It's required. Uh we're very fortunate to have the transit sales tax.

So I brag about every time I talk to other cities Bruce

just a little point. So on demand besides besides the the population that that call upon because they have a physical limit to cont Why why would I call it if I was out there one o'clock in the morning? Why would I call it instead of Uber? Why would I call it instead of Uber or if I need a ride? Why would I call on demand versus well the cost is probably going to be cheaper because it's $3 per ride. Um might be more readily available because it is Norman focused and we have dedicated vehicles out there. um where Uber is, if you're an Uber driver, it just depends on if you want to work or lift or whatever. So, um it can be a safety net if there aren't any other services available, especially because buses aren't running and yeah, the private sector might not be there to provide that service. And that's really the the crux of the Safe Ride program is

sometimes there's not a service available, especially 30 years ago when they started it or most universities started it. And then the uh the the goal of getting uh university students home, no questions asked, is a is a big deal for the university. So that's kind of the the safety net part. And we can kind of extend that to our general population, too. If they need a ride home, hopefully we can get them home without them having an issue. So are you saying this? So you're saying Ubers aren't available at certain times in Norman? I haven't run the data, but they could be is what I'm saying because they are based on if you want to work as an Uber driver, right? Is that that's my understanding? Or there might be two of them working. Yeah. If there's a big event in the city or something,

they might they might go up to Oklahoma City. The hot spot for pay could be Oklahoma City and that makes all our drivers rush up there. I've heard stories of people saying it can be difficult to get a lift or an Uber in Norman just because there's not a lot of availability. an hour to get one. That's I haven't, you know, maybe explore the share relationship changes as far as cost per ride out of my pocket if I'm asking for a ride for instead of being subsidized so much. I'm sorry. Can you say it again? Increase the fair. Oh, okay. I was thinking about something else that kind of happened. Okay.

Yeah. When that's what we did this past fall. We increased it from two to three. We can definitely that if that's council's direction, we could consider increasing it again. So, or we've talked about changing the model for fair. It's just a straight up cost. Maybe it's per distance, but our zone is kind of tight compared to other cities. So, the distance model doesn't necessarily fit. It gets confusing. So, we could certainly look at that again.

Any other feedback, comments about transit budget? Any further meetings about it? And we'll be discussing it here every month, too, I'm sure, as we lead up to the June budget adoption. Okay. All right. Thank you, Taylor and Scott. We'll move on to item number three, which is city or downtown parking discussion. Um, just continues to be a point of discussion and ever evolving. We have business owners asking us about uh the timed parking. We got county commissioners asking about the paid parking around the courthouse. Um and so and we you know recently created the parking and transit trust or so uh thought we'd have a discussion about parking downtown just in general.

You don't get to get rid of us. We're going to stay for this. Good.

So u we have a very uh quick slide presentation for you all just giving a general overview and then we can have some discussion. But uh you may be familiar with some of these. uh we just came to you in November and then on December 9th to pass a uh new parking management plan. So uh kind of going over some of those general um overviews again. Transit and parking within public works kind of leads the coordination uh at the city. Uh we took over after transit got settled, we added parking to the transit function a few years in. So about year two or three and uh we've slowly been trying to um move operations over here. We really take care of the um paid public parking and then um obviously that touches the timed and then parking enforcement with PD. Uh traffic control is more of that timed parking plus the signage and city clerk's office. They uh historically handled the permits for the Grey Street lot and we've taken that over this current year. Um still work closely with them on things and then municipal court obviously for any violations. So again, that parking management plan adopted by council on December 9th. Um, we used to have two separate ones, one for downtown, one for campus corner. M majority of it was just the same verbiage. So, we just compiled it and made sure that the separate areas like the rates and things were separated. So, we didn't have two documents to keep up with, updated general information, um, updated payment options, uh, just general revisions. But the big, um, to-do was updating those rates. And I I didn't include it in this presentation, but we went from uh 25 cents an hour in like the Grey Street lot and the county courthouse area to 50 cents an hour. And then um in our ASP lot, which is uh just north of campus corner, we went from a dollar an hour down to 50 cents to hopefully encourage folks to utilize that lot more, especially because the on street parking in campus corner, we kept at a dollar. So that incentivizes hopefully incentivizes people to utili

utilize that lot more. So of 200 50 cents, right? down from a dollar to 50 cents. 50 cents if you'll just walk one block. Correct.

So, it makes sense. Um hopefully we'll seeing that. We also increased the Oh, we'll get into the rates here in a minute for downtown, but we increase the rates for the Grey Street lot permits and then um also uh are looking at uh as lot permits starting July 1. So, giving us some times to get that some time to set that up, but that's what we're working towards now. So, here's the uh rates for downtown since that's specifically what we're talking about here. There's a lot of information on this slide, but it generally talks about what what I just went over. Uh Grey Street lot and courthouse on street parking is 50 cents an hour um 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. We also have leases 41 spaces in the Grey Street lot um for $600 for the annual um permit and that was that's up from $450 for the annual permit. Um, I don't remember last time it was updated, but it it's been that that much for a while. And then some just general uh information there at the bottom of how many spaces are in each of those those areas. This map is a little busy, but uh given the general discussion of downtown parking, I uh went in and just wanted to show a an overview of the timed and paid parking in downtown. This isn't um I might have missed an area here or there. I might have gotten one little bit wrong, but it gives you an idea. So, working up uh to the paid parking, we have no time limits in some areas in purple. Um you can see some of those in the middle and on the outskirts. Some 15 to 30 minute parking. Um there's not very many of it in that blue. It's there's a loading zone just on um on Crawford just south of Maine and then there's uh some right in front of the Norman Transcript. So, not much. The majority is an hour parking with the yellow, hour and a half parking with the orange. Um, there's a little bit there on the west side of the tracks on Main Street, and then two-hour parking in the

red. And then the green is the Grey Street lot, paid parking lot, and then around the courthouse is the other paid parking in downtown. Um, so the parking lot across Jones from the Sooner Theater, the city, we own that. That uh Yeah, that one. Yes. Uh, I didn't include that because it's kind of it's free. I didn't see that's what I'm I'm not saying this is a perfect map, but that's that is available. Also, I wasn't sure if there was some weird weird thing about it. No, that's why it's there. I just uh I need I need to formalize this map in our GIS system. We just don't have the staff time to really go in and make a formal a formal map. But

the intent here was just to concentrate on the on street parking and the paid parking uh that that we manage. There's lots of, you know, off- streetet parking that obviously is not uh accounted for in this map in any way because it's private. That's a city lot, but it doesn't really fit the categories what we thought we really wanted to be talking about today, but it's a free lot that has no time limit. I also didn't include any lots around the city complex, you know, that could be used after hours. There's there's little tidbits like that. And then east main, east of Porter, like the stash and Oh, yeah. Yeah, fire station one. There's no time limit down there, I don't think. I don't believe so.

So, again, just a general overview kind of giving an idea of uh how the how how it looks today. So, fascinating how one single block on Maine is an hour and a half and and we didn't realize that uh when it came with that, I did the same thing. What why is that one block? We have no reasoning for it. Um it just is. So, And ideally you would have the uh shorter timelines obviously in the more popular areas and then it kind of works that way here but as you work out it gets higher timelines or even no time no time periods right further will walk right

council grant and um so those red is that Santa Fe where it's got like no time yeah that's like the maker lab and the other one's scratched so correct I assume that is their most recent change to the twohour. I don't We haven't changed anything recently in downtown. Oh, okay. I got a request for that and fored it on. So, I was just curious. It's one hour on the north side on of That's the one they want to change. And wasn't it blue? Did we change it for blue on Crawford? Yes. That was a change was made a little ways back. Yeah. Six months ago, something like that. Correct. Oh, yeah.

And with that, that's when we stop. I thought you were talking about the color blue. That's when we to do that, we established the policy we have in place now that to change the timing limits, you need to get 75% of the property owners or tenants, depending on how you look at it, on that block to agree because while two hours may be great for one person, two hours may be horrible for somebody else. They want people popping in and out and somebody else needs two hours because they've got, you know, patrons that are there for two hours. So we want to make sure that we don't make a that have the change immediately get pushed back from twothirds of the block that say that's a real problem for us. So we want to make sure that it's majority. Um so 75% of that block

is that what else I now I'm thinking about the coffee spaces and I see them. So grey owl that was another was two hours last couple years. Yep. the people around them said yes. And then I remember Yellow Dog asked and I think that's still great that there is no time limit over by Highlands since it's where their employees are parking. So, uh I know they got to probably fight to get in there, but uh and I would say is uh parking enforcement like really just going through and on these twohour ones like keep in the time or

it's a very labor intensive job and um it's my and they're still under PD so uh I should have asked them to be to be here to help us answer some questions but yeah still chop tires come back two hours and look for chalk because I know they get called out to press and plow off of Lindsay and is it Loma I want to say because of the parking of there so you know they've got a range they've got a cover yeah and I think this important note is parking enforcement doesn't just handle the paid or time parking in town, they also handle uh every area of town that they can go to without having a police officer take care of it, right? So,

yeah. And then I know people were surprised to hear that uh we don't really make money off of parking enforcement. So, they're just convinced people are paying their tickets, I guess. Well, and uh even the ones that are paying the tickets. Yeah. We're still not able to recoup the complete cost of parking enforcement. Council member Oh, Peacock didn't ch

I did. It wasn't a question, just a comment. I actually have to leave in about two minutes. So, I wanted to get this in there. Um I'd be in favor of making it all one and a half hour, maybe even potentially two hours. Um I get the idea of incentivizing turnover. I mean, I get that, but I also think this is our central business district or, you know, the most heavily trafficked, foot trafficked area of the whole city, and we want people to linger a little bit. You want to be able to park and go to your first destination, finish up, and go to a second or third potentially, um, all without having to move your car. You want to be able to walk to those places. And so, I I personally would be in favor of extending it across the district. Now, if there's a street, like you said, that's got 75% of the businesses that want less time. Maybe we start at two hours and people can reduce from there, but I would just be

we could do that with council direction. Yeah, I'd be in favor of that. So, I just want to put that out there. Council no fire. I was actually going to bring up something very similar to council member Peacock simply because if we did it in that nature right now it's kind of confusing with where the time limits are whatever and you always have to look at the signs to see how long you can stay there and that would simplify it for everybody and probably result in fewer parking tickets in the first place if it's all just say one and a half hours everywhere knows

for the 15 to 30 minute parking I would ask definitely ask them before just blanket covering I would call those a special zone though. That's there for a reason and I don't know that we would do those particularly especially because like the one is a loading and unloading zone. That's a special zone and has a special purpose. Um yeah, I see a few of them. Uh because there's is that Crawford or Yeah. So that's a loading unloading and then you've got the the parking spaces right in front of the transcript which was there for people to run in and run out and take care of business. Yeah. Just real quick, I do have a procedure question. Does this have to go to planning commission and all that for approval? This one's just council.

So there's no notification. That's kind of what I was getting at. Is there going to be a notification to it? I was going to say it might be worth just making sure that that's desired because you could it could be a case that they want the hour parking for sure. Especially in the more more heavily trafficked. I think of a notification even though it's probably not required is be a smart thing just to test the waters. Yeah. Yeah. And also just put it in there. Push. Parking is one of those animals.

So like if you got Tatsumaki Ramen, you know, maybe one hour makes sense for the turnover. And I know that those people are going even though there's no time limit on the other sides, but it's all full. They're going into Mango's parking, which is for customers only. So, and that's caused some friction there. Uh so I don't know. No, I don't know if there's a perfect answer, but definitely I guarantee you whatever we choose to do, whatever council would would give us direction to do, somebody's not going to like it. Yeah. But what we need to do is just make those decisions.

Would council want us to move forward on those areas that currently have no time parking and make that two-hour also or leave those as as is. And part of the reason I asked that question is because especially there along Jones where there's currently parking that is kind of designated parking for people that are utilizing Amtrak and so if you do that you kind of start creating a weird issue there um until the parking structure becomes available until until there's another option.

So I would I would recommend maybe leaving that stretch or people who are going to the well um because the well might need longer time frames. We'd hate to have somebody who's doing something at the well that's a great accommodation for our Norman and our county residents to have to go out there and move their car in the middle of a of an event that they're at. Um so if if if we could entertain that idea, maybe leaving that area and maybe some of the other some of those other areas are really like four parallel parking spaces. They're pretty much full all the time. Um, but I would um I would prefer to u make it consistent on Main Street. I kind of favor the two-hour just

um and maybe I mean ideally if the Downtowners Association would maybe give us a recommendation of what they'd prefer. Yeah, that would be helpful. I know they don't speak for every business in property owner, but

it would give us a pretty good idea, I think. And then um so I'd say Maine and Grey Street be consistent twohour I' uh the I would keep the no time limit parking for now maybe where it's at but Maine and Gray and Comanche kind of have it uniformed with the twohour parking you follow or yeah you follow is almost entirely twohour except for that strip in front of the dairy and I'd be fine keeping that the way it Um and then the other issue is the courthouse. So Commissioner Muse is here. Um requested just a discussion about that situation. It's the only street parking that we charge for downtown. Um, and the discussion about people paying in the courthouse versus if there's a time limit, uh, they may have to move their car out while they're in the middle of court. I don't know. But that was part of the motivation of the discussion, too, is that it's clearly we have a hodgepodge of how parking is done in downtown Norman. So, a little bit more uniformity, I think, would be helpful. And then I know there's plans to, you know, close Comanche, that block of it, in front of the court or next to the courthouse. Um and then future plans with parking structures and potentially paid parking, street parking in the future. So wanted to mention that too.

Yeah, I was thinking about the future closure on Comanche. I'm okay with it paid just for the fact that you could be guaranteed and I assume those you could be in the port and add the time through your phone. Um, and I do like the purple where the well and that strip is because somebody from the courthouse could park over there and walk over too. Uh, but in the future, I guess Comanche is

going to be offline, but but maybe by that point we have a parking structure and the whole downtown is paid parking. So, uh, I'm kind of leaning towards keeping the purple and the green where it is. Council member Dixon. Um, I was going to see if we could recognize Commissioner Mchuse to kind of talk about what the countyy's thinking. Yeah, you'd like to,

Mr. Chairman. Thank you. So, just an update. Uh, we're working pretty diligently on the parking garage across Comanche. So, I think we're there's a lot of contract and contracted contract, but we are very close to getting that deal done. I feel like within about 18 months, we'll have a parking structure there. Uh, so we're cooking with gas. We did put in a request with the city manager on obviously closing Comanche. We feel like that'll be like a beautiful courtyard uh for the courthouse. Uh, one other thing that I brought to the attention some of the council members of the mayor. Um, as you guys know, it's it's mayhem when you're trying to come in and pay property taxes inside the courthouse. We feel like I view it a lot like I do the state capital. It's a public building. We need to be able to service the taxpayers who are coming and paying for core services of government. Um, you know, and and I'd leave that up to the council as what that looks like. But really, you know, we could do, you know, the immediate parking around Jones, Peters, and Fala. I'd really highlight that to the to the members and just say, "Look, it's probably not 15 20 spaces, but it would be nice to have that for some veteran parking, some additional veteran parking." Uh, also specific to the county offices and whatever you guys think that needs to look like. If that's a two-hour parking, that's great. But I think the residents and and your constituents would really appreciate that. Uh it is a zoo when you know whenever they're trying to process property taxes it's crazy in there. Uh jury trials are also insane. So I think with the parking garage we're working on our side but I I made a couple requests with the mayor on that. I feel like that that's you know a good ask back out for the public uh not not having to meter and get into the building. Thank you.

So the just to be clear the preference of the county be uh timed parking around the courthouse instead of paid. I'd leave that up to the pleasure of the board, but anything where they don't have to go necessarily a two hour would be good, mayor. I mean, if I had my wish list, we just put signage out there and designate it for that office for probably two hours per each office. Um, but I would leave that up to the pledge board, whatever they want to do. Um, but I just want to expand opportunity for people have access to a public building without having to pay a meter. That's really where I'm at. So, I do have a question. Yeah, let's move here. Is there a problem with them parking over by the uh the purple across the way? I know the train tracks kind of biceps it.

Yeah, it's really from a legal standpoint. We don't even like send around employees over there because across the train track. Um they can, but really like right now north of the empty lot that we have north of Comanche, we just let the general public park in there right now and they're already doing that. So, I'm I'm about like I said, public building. I don't I hate charging people for if they're coming in to pay property taxes, it in turn goes to education and birth and bridges. Like, we need to look at it at that angle is what I would argue to you guys. And I appreciate the board uh Councilman and Dixon and the mayor were very um that was wellreceived when I when I brought that to y'all's attention. I just feel like like I said, it's it's something that when you see people plugging the meter and fighting to get inside the house. It's just tough for me to see that. So,

I would say our long range plan is to all of downtown. So, just putting it out there. That's the point. Yeah. The recognition that when

Thank you, Commissioner. the Gray and Peter's parking structure goes up that um and the combination of parking uh time limits andor rates to park in the structure versus park on the street like the recent changes on campus corner. Cheaper to park in the lot, cheaper to park in the structure than it would be to park on the street. But yeah, I mean different time limitations. So, if you're going to be there a long time, you want to save some money, park in the structure, cost you less. If you're, you know, going to be doing your downtown business, there's a two-hour limit. Park on the street, two bucks, do all your shopping, and call it a day.

Free parking is a way for cities to incentivize economic activity, though. You know, people really love when you go visit an out of town place, and you don't have to worry about, am I parked on the right place? I'm going to get towed. I'm in this town I've never been in before. um and you can just go shop or eat or whatever you want to do. So, there's something to be said about that. It is It feels good to be able to just go downtown park and not have to worry about doing messing with all that. Council,

uh I just kind of wanted to piggy back off what the commissioner said. Um just me personally, um it is tough parking around the courthouse and I've only been to honestly the Cleveland County courthouse when I was adopting children. So, if you're ever there on a day where it's a day for adoption, it's a crazy house and there's no parking because everybody obviously brings their whole family because everybody wants to see that happen. It's a big deal. And so, that is a crazy day at the courthouse and there's nowhere to park. And my daughter got towed. Nice. So, yeah.

I just would like to see something different but around the courthouse also. I just want Oh, sorry. Yeah. I just want to say uh the goal, at least in my mind, I know it could vary from city to city, the goal of of of metering and parking enforcement is that is compliance and then also economic development, that turnover we talk about. So, um obviously we want to be uh think about the the free times versus metering, but if it makes more sense to be free, that that makes sense. But I just want to the the parking enforcement folks. I know they have a very labor intensive job and they they work hard and I consistent I think for them, right? But they

blocks the same. I think their goal would be not to have to issue any tickets or anything and they're just I just want to be cognizant of that that they're they're out there uh trying we're we're we're trying to incentivize the the turnover so that businesses would get more businesses. Right. So it and and you know in the grand scheme the opportunity for a different funding model basically pay for parking to be able to provide more parking and add parking capacity which is what we hear that there is development sitting on the sidelines waiting for a parking solution in downtown. There is development pressure on the sidelines on campus corner waiting for a parking solution. Look at

all those parking lots just insane. And yeah, I mean if in the opportunity to say, "Hey, church, um we know Sunday morning's the big busy time for you, could there be public parking when church isn't happening? Uh can can you more fully utilize maybe contractually some of the open parking lots all the way around?" Potentially, yes. the concept of could you develop parking structures to really get that parking density up with TIFF revenue for that east main tiff program? Could you take a bigger chunk of that revenue and pay for parking structures and and provide that free parking for everybody downtown? potentially, you know, the same on on ass. And that's a model we don't see in our neighboring agencies. Oklahoma City, you pay to park everywhere and they use the money to pay for parking structures. They don't have a tiff set up to do that, but

potentially council could the east downtown folks uh around st the 400 block of Maine. Um that's our parking and they definitely want us to fix up. So yeah, that tiff will definitely be addressing those folks interests. So So I'd say all of the yellow make it red. Well, it's got a it's got a twohour basically. Yeah. And like the standard, it's no time limit, but the standard is the only business that faces Grey Street on that side of the street on that whole block. So I don't think they would hate more turnover to be honest. It's two hours away from them, too.

And we I put in what was there prior to the Grey Street construction. We've been talking internally about that being updated with the street coming back online. Added some new street parking on Gray since that day or part of it. So, yeah, if that's if there's any other thoughts on any of that. And good news, um, we have our own sign shop and if we make such a change and it blows up, we can change change it back. I think it's pretty Yeah. What should we make those signs in house? Oh, those we don't I think we may purchase those. I'm not positive. I can't expensive. I can't respond to that directly, but I'd hate to 50/50. It's one or the other. Yeah, it's not cost prohibitive.

I promise you it's one or the other. Any other thoughts on downtown parking? Okay. So, it's not all red or is it It's going to be all red. Yellow being all red. Anything that anything that's not currently purple, go to red. And with the courthouse, I mean, I don't have a problem with the two-hour thing. Me either. Um, so red around the courthouse, too. Okay. Council budget. Yeah. What is What are we collecting off that? I doubt it's enough to cover. I bet it's not much.

Okay, here we go. So, we this is our last slide here, but uh basically based on the rate change, and I know we're running short on time with the last item, but uh the Grey Street lot, we're thinking we'd get about $15,000 um with the 50 cents up from 25 cents. And then the courthouse on street, we would go up to about 23,000 um with the rate increase. And then that paragraph below is talking about the Grey Street lot uh uh permit rate increase. and that uh we have all but three spaces uh that were accounted for this year. Um and thankfully nobody uh complained about the rate increase. So we are doing well with that and increase the revenue from that um lot. But obviously if we take away the meters around the courthouse that revenue would not be there anymore. And then um I did want to say for the Grey Street parking lot, as we start affecting um time parking on Main Street and Grey Street, that could affect people wanting to park in the Grey Street lot because of uh the incentivizing to be able to park longer and not have to worry about uh enforcement or anything. So just as a caveat, that could affect the the revenue on the Grey Street lot.

Are these numbers factoring into that surplus that we talked about in the previous item? No, that the previous item was all trans transit only. This is parking only. We really look at them, even though they're kind of combined, we look at them as two separate funds systems. So, um, yes, that 13.8, that's what we're collecting now, roughly. Roughly, yeah, if we kept it at 25. So, if we decide not to collect it anymore, we'll be losing 13. Well, we'll be losing the the potential increase. Well, we already have the increase in place

started. So the potential increase we're saying that that with the potential increase included it's 19 for this year and 27 because we have the whole year of collecting at 50 cents it would be 23. So we'd be losing $23,000 of revenue. We gained $23,000 in revenue. It would be a wash. Um but this fund is grossly under budgeted anyways. So, and this doesn't include the uh expense of having those those meters like the um fees we pay to floorboard and things like that, right? What was the Okay,

there's an economy of scale volume wise. We're not there yet. Um I don't know if Oklahoma City's there yet in terms of the number of pieces of hardware they have to collect parking revenue from all their paid parking systems. We could get some push back, but uh some agencies have started going to more asset light. So they put up the sign with the QR code and say pay to park, use the QR code instead of a machine instead of a machine. But you could get push back from those that don't want to use their phone or so just something to consider for future areas. Um either areas that are on the periphery or new areas people are are are considering using just QR code and signage even for street parking.

Yeah. technology will continue to evolve to make it better, faster, cheaper to in to enforce whatever rules established by the council. So, well, maybe we could do something to figure out the cost of that equipment that we put in and the parking meter was invented in Oklahoma City. I don't have the year. I don't know. See, on the cutting edge of the stuff right here. Okay. If we do it, I'll let the county tell us who never did anything tomorrow. Thank you for that. Council addiction, just real quick, I' I'd like to continue the county um kind of conversation around there. We provide free parking spots here at our lots.

Yeah. Um I always get confused if I'm supposed to park there or in the employee parking lot when I come up here. Um you know, the only reason people are doing that is to do governmental business. Um, so I'd like to continue that conversation. Uh, yeah. And the post office, so that strip that's in front, which has no time, isn't being redone as part of the history project either, which is another interesting thing to me right away. Um, yeah, which is weird, but um, it's not timed. It's not It's not even It's private parking. Public. It's private. But nobody would know that. It doesn't say that. Oh, yeah. They would just assume it's the same as all the rest. Okay. So you don't really get to say what the time limit is. No private law.

No. And even to your point about the mango and like even if we change the times that might not affect that's going to be the property owner's responsibility to enforce their lot. That makes sense in the post office too if they needed to. So okay. So, we want to proceed with removing the parking around the courthouse and make it two-hour like the rest of the area or is that further discussion point?

Maybe further discussion point because we were talking about what were you saying the equipment cost was the same as what we'll get in fiscal year 27 or did I misunderstood? Yeah, just based on the new rates for one full fiscal year. If we didn't collect around the courthouse but have the new rates in place for a whole year, we break even. We're right exactly where we are today. Yeah, with the increase at the gray lot. Lose 23 around the courthouse, pick up 23 at the Grey Street lot. No change. Uh yeah, yellow to red. Okay. Yeah. Green to red. Yeah. Go from gray to that one's green to red. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Um, okay. Final anything comments about the that part downtown. Okay. All right. Then this last item on the agenda. Oh, great. Thanks for the support. Thank you, staff. Uh, that'll be a continued discussion. Downtown parking as always. Project updates and discussion of the access Oklahoma eastwest corridor. This is our fourth item.

This should be pretty short. There's not a whole lot of real dramatic changes since last time we spoke. We want to keep you informed and keep transparency with you. Uh, as we've talked about before, they awarded the contract on the bridge over the Canadian River. Uh, they will be mobilizing early March. Heard anywhere from the first to the second week. So, they will be under construction. We'll be seeing equipment moving in. They may not be done a lot of hard at the very beginning, but they'll be setting up and getting out there and getting that going. Uh we have talked about uh the fact that there's the 36th Avenue Northwest uh phase two that part of the uh drainage that we would have to have constructed with ours is also necessary uh for the turnpike to be able to operate properly. So they have reached out to us and said let's work together on this. And as a part of that, uh, what the latest discussions were is that that they would basically come in and build all of what we were calling phase two, which is just a little bit north of Franklin Road to Indian Hills because basically that entire structure will be underneath the roadway. It was with our design, too. Uh, so they would they would construct that as part of their projects. It will save the city of Norman on the magnitude of three and a half to$4 million. We're still the numbers kind of it's all estimates right now. Uh and that they would do that and that we would participate with about $2.2 million uh with some inind services that we've already completed that we had to do for our project. Um we'll be bringing that agreement to council for discussion and for further consideration hopefully on the 10th. Uh we haven't gotten back. It is an agreement not a resolution. Um, so it will be city does this, they agree to do this, signed and sealed, and that's the agreement that we'd all operate under to move forward.

Uh, just to kind of let you know what their schedule looks like. Wedding means bidding. It's the same word, just a different term. Uh, so right now they're looking at August uh, 2026 that they would be bidding the interchange at 60th Avenue Northwest. So that's coming up pretty quick. Uh these dates are kind of fluent, so if you see them change, don't shoot the messenger. It's just they're moving things back and forth as they need to uh to try to accommodate the work uh on on 36. They moved back the bid date uh for the section from 48th to 36th to September. Uh that would be that would be under construction probably right around the first of the year, just before the first of the year. Uh, also they are talking about the bridge and approaches over 48th Avenue. So the bridge at 48th Avenue Northwest would be under construction. Uh, October they're coming back. They're bidding the grading and the drainage and then bidding the paving separately. That's just the way they're setting up their contracts. Uh, there's got to be an economy to there's a reason they do that. But they are looking at talking about bidding that in October. That one may slide based on the movement of the previous contract. uh 36th Avenue Northwest would be November 2026. Uh if you're looking at their their bid letting schedule from their last authority meeting, it said Northeast. I called and went, "Is that supposed to be Northwest?" And they're like, "Yeah, that's northwest." So, good news there. Um and then January 2027, they're going to start bidding the section from 36th Avenue across I35 to the railroad. Uh so, you're going to start seeing construction in that area quickly. uh looking further out. They're looking at the Porter uh bridge structure for this in the first part of 27, the first half of 27 with lots more uh bids coming up. So, lots of activity coming. It's going to look like a definite construction

zone across North Norman for quite a long time. They're still saying there will be traffic moving east west from I44 to I35 by the end of 27. So, I also had a request about what's going on on Highway 9. So, uh we we reached out to our partners. I had my meeting with Ron Brown with ODOT. Uh that project did begin back in September 24. It has been a a pretty long project, but it was a 420day construction project. So, it's right on par with that. It's basically substantially complete at this point. They're going to be probably starting to remove barrels, get striping done, and that's going to be just ready to go and and we're not going to know it. We're not going to remember what was there before uh pretty soon. So, that's really good news on that one. And with that, I would be happy to answer any questions about any other project, these projects, or anything else that's out there.

Can you please one second go back to the highway nine? No, you missed it. Yeah, it looks like they did that section to accommodate future six lane of uh correct correct highway 9 from I35 to East 24th which has been in their 10-year plan for like the last 15 years but or eight year plan. So, um I don't know when when they ever expect to actually

Well, they're they're they're currently doing a study uh having a study completed that is looking at that whole section uh and what would be the best uh service for the community and for the for the highway system. And that is currently ongoing and we're expecting to get them to come back and talk to us any time now. Uh we had a meeting set up several months ago and they went we're making some tweaks and so we're waiting for them to come back. Um but I'm expecting it not just to be a six lane to be more like a freeway system with overpasses and it actually operate like a highway of that capacity should without having the problems with signals and other items. I think that we're going to now again it's not on the eight-year plan so I don't want us to jump up and down that we're going to see something really soon but there are items coming that will benefit that that stretch

well and and Scott I I contemplate the cost of widening the whole thing to three lanes each way versus the cost of interchanges and removing the points of vehicular conflict I need to be six lanes at the needs to be way safer if it could be vote. I I don't know. I haven't seen anything yet. But we we'll be getting more information on that. As soon as I get that information and it's shared with me, I will bring it back to the next CPTC and I will we will discuss it and we'll have a open conversation about what they're proposing. If there weren't all those traffic lights, it'd be a lot easier to get to Lloyd Noble Center from

be a lot easier to get lots of places. And just as a reminder to the committee, uh, next month, uh, ODOT is going to be coming with their consultant to share with us, uh, the findings of safety audit from 24th or 36th. They went all the way up to, I believe, 108. I'm having struggle with the highway safety,

the highway 9 safety audit, I'm sorry. So, they'll be bringing back that that information with what their recommendations are. And there's some items on that that we were already we went for a grant to do some lighting at interse lighting at intersections. We didn't get that, but we're still looking at options and opportunities to be able to move forward with some some of the low hanging fruit for that corridor. I would say on our next CPTC maybe a discussion about the ODOT the uh portal they have right now with the corridor Robinson to Fourth Street and more and they're taking comment on that and they've got concept designs of each going to be open by our next I don't know if they'll still be open that may be closed by our next I can't remember the day song but that may be closed by our next

well um everybody I would encourage you to take a look at it and if you have u there's a couple points on it I saw like the Franklin bridge and how that would connect to flood. I found I that seemed a little weird to me and but if there's anything you notice about it that we need to comment as on as a city before anything goes forward let Scott know. You you can go to the ODOT website and go under public meetings I think and there's one it's it's virtual. They give you a quick description of it. You can go through and look at what all the roadway discussions are and where new and future changes would be made. Um it is going to a oneway frontage road system. just got an interactive map where you can see what it looks like now and then you like move the slide. It shows what

it would all how it all be reconstructed each bridge, each interchange. There there's a lot of information there. On and off ramps at Rock Creek Road where that how that would work and where and all that type of stuff. So yeah, I do keep telling people they're not really going to do on and off as much, but they call them X-ramps. It's more like what you see in Texas where you may get off half a mile or two miles before and travel the service road and then get back on a mile or two down. So, they're not going to be building an interchange as such at Rock Creek, but there will be access to and from I35. Same at Franklin for approach there. So, okay. Um, that's the questions I had about ODOT stuff. Uh, questions about uh OTAA stuff that you just talked about.

No. Uh, you answered my question. The only one I had was on the highway 9. Whenever you're saying service, what services they were going to put in. I was just curious about that, but you answered it immediately. So, that Yeah. And I I do not want to I I want them to present what they found and I want them to be able to to answer your questions. I don't think I could do that effectively, but they're going to have their consultant here and ODOT will be here and they will that they're coming to try to help us. Council member Grant. Um, so on the OTAA agreement. Yes. Uh when is that an agenda item? Uh we're trying to get it off for the 10th. Mario. March 10th. Okay. Thank you. See Mario Day.

Council Bruce. I just have a question. When a major projects right between two municipalities like this and so you have the OTAA bringing in a lot of material, just tons and tons of material. how how does that work out for allocation of you know tax that are associated with that material? So does that make sense?

Um there there's a ton of paperwork that um agreements can be reached to identify a point of sale for such construction materials. Um, there are big swaths of products and companies that are exempt from sales tax. Right off the bat, I think there's 41 exempt products or companies that the state legislature has approved in the last handful of years. If the product is not exempt and the company buying it is not exempt, agreements can be reached to say, "Hey, uh, why don't you do all this paperwork for us and have this address, your your layown yard, be the point of sale?" And um so it it is achievable and you'll see that in um well as an example in the entertainment district tax increment finance map. It is anticipated that the developers will identify that real estate as the point of sale and then that will also receive a match from the state department of commerce's uh sales tax. Um, so it's it's doable. It's a bunch of paperwork and you gota have everybody agree to do the paperwork to get that sales tax allocation. Okay. Any other questions, comments about this item? Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much, staff. Appreciate your time and work on this. U we got all a full council here for this committee today.

Sound like a study session.