City - Regular Meeting

Welcome. Uh, regular session mayor and city council meeting 6 p.m. Wednesday, March 4th, 2026. City Hall council chambers call this meeting to order. Would you please rise for the pledge of allegiance? Mr. of sir. Your honor, I pledgece to the flag of the United States of America to republic one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, sir. Just to notify everybody, there's two changes that we're going to do on the on the agenda. Item number six, which is the proclamation, will be done immediately right now. And item number 4 A will be moved with orders E. Correct. Yes.

Thank you. Okay. So, we go on to the proclamation. Whereas the citizens of Noguel stand firmly committed to promoting reading as a catalyst for our students future academic success. Their preparations for careers of the future and their ability to compete in a global economy. And whereas the Santa Cruz County School Superintendent's Office has provided significant leaderships in the area of community involvement in the education of our youth. Grounded in the principles that an investment in early literacy is key to the community well-being and long-term quality of life. And whereas Read Across America, Read on Santa Cruz County and Early Literacy Collaborative will focus on increase grade level proficiency, promote reading as a critical pillar in the education of our community students. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed that the Santa Cruz County School Superintendent Maya M. Donnelly calls for calls on the citizens of Santa Cruz County to asssure that every child is in a safe place reading together with a caring adult the week of March 2nd, 2026. Be it further resolved that the Nogella city mayor and council enthusiastically endors Reed across America read on Santa Cruz County and commits our community to engage in programs and activities that

ensure when Arizona sha children thrive. In witness whereof we have here unto set my hands and caused to be affixed the great seal of the city of Ngalos County of Santa Cruz, Arizona, Mayor Jorge Maldonado. Thank you. And this is proclamation for reading supporting the uh Santa Cruz County Superintendent. Thank you. Somebody from the right here. You're hiding back there. Here you go, man. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Keep on doing the good job. And yes, thank you. Next, we move to uh call to the public. We do have plenty of them. We will stick to three minutes. At three minutes, our city clerk is going to say go like this and then you have 10 more seconds to finish. Please, let's try to respect the timing.

Mayor, council, make an announcement. Uh the city has the monitors in the lobbies that are on and there's audio and video there. As far as the capacity in this room for OSHA safety and for fire safety is set at 70. Those that are standing or those that are able to give up a seat. If we can move to the lobby, we can continue to participate. The fact that we have a lot of people here is exactly what the city wants. We want to see everybody's participation, but we want to maintain that everybody's safe and comfortable. So, anybody that is comfortable and willing, we can participate in this meeting through the monitors in the lobby.

Thank you. There's some open seings up front. And mayor, we did turn off the shocker for the three minutes, so they they won't get the electrical shock like you usually do. Thank you. Uh first first person first person first person first person first person first person first person first person first person first person first person we got Mr. David Cillo please come and state your name and address. Thank you. Three minutes sir.

Yes. Uh my name is David Calvo. My address is 392 Camino in Rico. Uh this message is mainly for the public. Deeply respect for most of our elected officials but this is for the public. Once again, the actions of a few elected officials are bringing embarrassment to the city of Ngalas. After recently serving as the executive assistant to the city manager and having a front row seat, you begin to realize many things. You begin to realize that some elected officials are not serving with the best intentions. These are some of the things I've realized. For some of them, it's all about power. And let me tell you, I've realized that the power or the hunger for power that some of them have corrupts. They don't allow good leaders to lead. Instead, they want to puppet them around. Even though at one point some of them were the biggest advocates for our city manager. Instead of seeking facts and having mature conversations, some of them love to listen to false rumors, false information, and run with it as if it was truth. Time and time again, they turn these council meetings into circus, into a circus. Not because of the truth, but because they live in a false, egofueled reality that they have created. Our city manager isn't perfect, but he cares deeply about Ngalis. He's not seeking for applause or recognition. In fact, he hates pictures and praise, and I can attest to that. Tonight, the proof is in his actions. cleaner streets. Buildings that city funds were spent on

are finally being renovated and fixed up to be open like Paladuro and the administrative services building. He's active actively seeking out corruption, wrongdoing, and the leeches who for years have drained money from the city and stained its and stained its integrity. many many of those people no longer here at the city. Bringing in exceptional leaders to replace directors who were leading departments in unethical ways. Constantly asking what can be improved to better Nalis not for himself not for elected officials but for the people. Seeking pro programs to improve effic efficiency and processes. You may hear complaints about our city manager, and I'm sure you might hear some tonight from people, from employees, from elected officials. But I challenge you to dig deeper into these complaints. Often they come from disgruntled employees, individuals whose harmful actions towards the city were discovered and dealt with. People resisting change. But change is good. Change challenges that this is how it's always been done mentality. Change holds companies, contractors, employees, and even elected officials accountable.

10 seconds. Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice. When the wicked rule, the people groan. For years, the people of Ngalas have groaned." Thank you, sir. About lack of growth, the same old patterns, corruption, and the same old people running the city. Mr. Kramer is a good leader. Mr. Korea, I mentioned it. Please make the right decision tonight. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, we said 3 minutes after your notice. 10 seconds. Next, we go um speaking on behalf of Carolyn Schaefer, Miss uh Councilwoman Disa Mont. Attorney, do do I need to go up to the podium or is it okay here? You're the boss tonight. I'm the boss tonight. Yeah, we'll make that on the record. That's recorded. You can do it from yourself. Okay. Thank you. And and mayor, just so don't this is not part of the three minutes. Just so that people can know that Carolyn Schaefer was going to be here tonight. So, she's asked me if I could read this for her. Okay.

Thank you.

All of us in Santa Cruz County are in unchartered territory. We live in a global biodiverse hot spot that according to scientists is in need of research and protection for species survival. We are challenged by the 21st century extractive capitalism model that is far more damaging than historical mining ever was. The company's motive is high profits for funding management, compensation packages, and greater investor returns. The residents of Santa Cruz County want to protect our natural resources and create a climate resilient county that protects the health and well-being of our people while honoring our cultural heritage and our unique ecosystem both of which support our strong and growing naturebased uh economy. We are forced to negotiate an agreement because our state and federal governments have failed to protect us. The latest example is the ADQ Clean Water Act 401 waiver which our community is currently working to respond to on or before March 20th. Through the early discussions about the community protections and benefits agreement, the government entities have resisted being maneuvered into signing an agreement primarily benefiting the mine company. The second slide that is not the C uh BBBA. The CBBA will be complete once we have the vice and biological opinion from the federal agencies. Going forward, the local, region, regional and national organizations that were part of the review of the environmental impact statement and mine plan of operation must be heard by the government entities before completion of the CPBA. In my opinion, which is Caroline Schaefer's, the early actions community investment agreement is the interim agreement which has been suggested rather than being pressured into the actual agreement. This investment

agreement was negotiated to get funding for actions that need to happen sooner than later. I, Caroline Schaefer, support approval of the early actions community investment agreement and I also acknowledge the concerns of our community members. That is vitally important that the government organizations each find a way to allow our local residents to provide input on the protections roadmap tasks. Carolyn Schaefer. Thank you.

Thank you. Next we have uh Mr. Louis Par. Sir, please come forward. State your address and we got three minutes and we'll give you sign when you have 10 seconds. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. I'm here to talk about the elephant in the room, George's accident. Mayor George's accident. I do not condone it on any level. And yes, I agree wholeheartedly. It was very unbecoming. Unbecoming to say the least. However, it was an accident. An accident. An unforeseen event. I invite the city council to show a little class. First of all, that there were no injuries to others. Second of all, to recognize that my friend and friend probably to most of you, George, is still among us. recognize the humanity that he is still a husband to his wife and most importantly a father to his children. Do not destroy a person's being because you can. Do not destroy it because you can exploit the ridiculous code of conduct that was passed in order to be utilized in situations exactly like this. I address the council on the dangers of this code of conduct. I ask you to show some class and recognize the obvious. It was unforeseen, an unforeseen event, an accident.

And please don't any of you kid yourselves. I use these words loosely. Do not kid yourselves. This could have happened to any one of us. So treat it for what it was, an accident. After all, it was not as if he was caught cheating. Good afternoon.

Thank you, sir. Next, we have Rosa Amelia Sango. Please state your name and address. Good evening. My name is Rosa Millia Sano. Did you ask me for my address? Name and address. That's what

Yeah. 550 North Bero. I'm sorry I can't hear any of you. So, um, you know, bear with me. I came back. I was raised here in Ngalas. came back in 2002, not because I wanted to, but because I had a beloved father who suffered from Alzheimer's. So, we walked the streets every single day. I thought he was going to kill me. So, I've seen all the problems here in No Gallas. And the sadness is that I continue to see them. Several months ago, I started walking again all over and I see the same problems. Nobody does anything about them. Now, last night I heard, now I don't know, Mr. Kramer. This is the first time I've laid eyes on him, but I understand that there are individuals here in council that would like to terminate him. I don't know him. I don't know what kind of work he's doing, but I strongly object because ever since I've been here from 2002, mayor after mayor, city council person after city council person, it's the same story. Someone comes in and has the right intentions and what what do we do? We need to terminate him. Get rid of them. They don't even have a chance to start making the corrections. I don't know him, but I'll tell you one thing that I did like. Barcinus gone. Kissinger gone. Bmudees gone. Suarez gone. All four of these individuals I have had

interactions with and they're not pleasant on this phone. Like I tell you, I have walked every street practically in Ngalas in the last couple of months. I can tell you that the things that I find are ridiculous. There is one item that's been on that needs repair for over 20 years. I told Fritz Kissinger about this and you know what he told me? Oh yeah. Just like that. I bet you want it done. Unacceptable. So, I don't know whether they were terminated or whether they resigned. I really don't care. I'm glad they're gone. I think what we need to do is let Mr. Kramer continue to do his job and give him a chance. We cannot continue to make changes because this is just a waste of time. I understand the man's heart is in the right place. Let him do his job. This is ridiculous. I have been threatened. I have been harassed because Okay. No, but this is important. My life is on I has been in danger because police officers are not allowed to do what they're supposed to do. I'm not going to die just because no Gallas police officers aren't properly trained or because they're told not to do something.

Okay. No, I'm I'm I'm going to have to drag me out. Sorry. And then the other thing too is please that I mean come on. We gave 10 seconds just be being fair. Okay, Mr. Kramer, I have a huge list. It's all in here. It's on the cloud. If I lose this, I have friends from out of state that have all this information. I mean, just corruption and everything else. I'm done with this. Thank you. We've got to do something. Thank you. Got to be fair with everybody. Thank you.

Next, we have Sarah Lee Burquette. Sarah Lee Burquette. I'll make you in the morning. Welcome. That's crowd. I'm not sure I can follow this, but I'll do my best.

Good evening. My name is Sarah Lee Briquette. I am the principal at Lincoln Elementary School, and I just want to do a thank you. Um um and we want to extend our sincerest thanks to the city manager. Um, and we've been through I I get we've been through several, but finally um we had been requesting a pet um a pet waste receptacle outside of our campus. So um we wanted to say thank you for your support. Um this addition really helps keep our school grounds and surrounding neighborhoods clean, safe, and welcoming for our students, our family, and our community members. Small actions like this do make a difference in creating a space where everyone can take pride in our environment and we're really grateful for the continued support um of our public schools because when a community really works together and that's important then everyone wins. So we want to say thank you for helping our Lincoln Lions um keep our campus and community looking its best. So thank you. And then we have a campus beautifification day on April 18th that's open to the public. So we invite you to come do some projects, do some painting and enjoy the day with us. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Next we have uh Mr. Dan D. Just a couple of things. My name is Dan Do. Any of you know me? Is it? Turn that on, please. There you go.

Oh, it's on. Okay. Uh, I live in Tubac off of uh Chevz sighting. Um, and I've been around for five years. And, um, I wanted to thank Mr. Kramer and um Patricia uh Jessica for their efforts helping me get the flyovers for the 4th of July, helping the city of Ngalas. We've been approved by the military for those flyovers um on the 4th of July during the parade and the event at the soccer field. So approval just means as available. So if we're not still at war and we have the planes and the helicopters, we should have a pretty good show. Um now unfortunately I have to ask a question. Um this puts things into context. Um my other element if you were asked who the most powerful lobbyist in the country was or is. I might ask you to consider that who you might think that is. A lot of people will say big pharma. Some people would say the industry energy industry. But I found in my career that uh it's organized crime. They're the most powerful, the largest lobbyist in the country, if not in the world. So when things don't make sense, look at that. I'm a 30-year veteran of federal law enforcement. I uh worked mostly in the desert. I spent 18 years teaching special operations, weapons, and tactics on the border here. So, I think I know a little bit about what's going on with ICE, Immigration, Customs Enforcement. These guys put their uniforms on every single day. Body armor, 30 pounds worth of gear, and sometimes more. They're going out there to try to save people's lives. They're police officers just like

the city, just like any other federal law enforcement officer or sheriff, the same thing. Willing to risk their lives to enforce the law. They take an oath of office. Many people in this room have taken an oath of office. It doesn't expire with retirement or when you leave service. You took that oath. It sticks with you. If you don't know what it means or you're not sure, look it up. Read the Constitution. Look up probable cause. Look up reasonable suspicion. These officers have warrants when they go out. Whether you believe it or not, whether you know it or not, they have warrants. They have probable cause, reasonable suspicion. They've recovered over 3,000 missing children that were trafficked in this country. Tens of thousands of serious criminals have been taken out of cities all over the country. They have made mistakes. They're going after millions of people. They're going to make mistakes. Who has not in their job made mistakes? I just want you to think about them. Hold them in your prayers. And uh we're at war now. That war was started 47 years ago. Thank you, sir. I'll speak again, but I just wanted to give an alternate viewpoint that we don't hear too often with some context. It's a really difficult job. It's very dangerous and if you don't support

immigration services, then I'm afraid you have to be supporting the criminal underbelly of the country. Thank you, sir. That's your option. Thank you.

Next, we have Celeste Tapia. Good evening, mayor and council. My name is Calypso Tapia and I'm a resident of Ngalas. For quick content context, I have a master's degree in economics and over a decade of experience as a business intelligence analyst. So, I pay close attention to process accountability and whether major decisions are actually backed by evidence. I'm here tonight because the records show a serious governance failure. Over the last several months, I submitted public records requests to better understand the management process behind major operational changes in the city. In response, the city stated in writing that no formal scheduled meetings between city manager and department directors were maintained, that no agendas or notes were prepared, and that meetings were impromptu and convened as needed, even while the stated priority was organizational structure and compliance. That does not make logical or operational sense. Its structure and compliance were truly the priority that required more coordination, not less. It required communication with department leadership, clear expectations, follow-through, and a documented process for tracking progress. That did not happen. And accountability here does not stop with city manager. It belongs with this council as well. Although I believe it's better to act late than not at all. This council cannot operate on rumor pressure. And whoever talks the most confidently in the room, anyone can make accusations. That does not make them true. Governance requires evidence, documentation, and the discipline to ask the right questions before acting. Blind trust is not governance. I still have not received documentation responsive to my public records request for the basis, scope, and justification for the proposed forensic audit, even though that matters again on tonight's agenda. And when I submitted a narrowly tailored request for project specific emails

between identified city officials, the response was a vague withholding memo rather than a clear accounting of what records were found, produced, or withheld. At the last city council meeting, you heard directly about underpaid police officers and the retention problems. That is exactly why stewardship matters. When taxpayer money is diverted into internal fallout, investigations, outside professional services, and preventable cleanup, there's a real opportunity cost to that spending. The city's own financial reports show the city manager and city attorney repeatedly over their year-to- date budget benchmarks. And by the end of January, more than 80% of the city attorney budget was already spent or encumbered. I also want to acknowledge the good employees still inside the city who are left cleaning up this mess. If this council truly wants to know what happened behind closed doors, then employees, including those who left within the last year, should be given a safe, documented path to submit written disclosures to council with meaningful protection against retaliation. So tonight, I'm asking you to do three things. Re-examine the decisions you approved over the last year. Insist on real documentation and real accountability going forward. And choose the next city manager with far more care than you chose this one. Thank you.

Thank you. Next we have uh Miss Linda Hatfield.

Good evening. Uh Linda Hatfield. I'm representing CWA7000. Um so I come to you tonight to address the city manager issue as well as a lot of people are. I just have to say that so I've been coming here since 2004. We've had a union since 2004. Um, I cannot remember the last time we had a city manager that actually worked with us, that we had open communications with, that collaborated with us, um, had an open door policy completely, kept his word, um, did all the things that you expect a city manager to do with labor. Um, I think my brothers will probably tell you similar stories, but it's been so difficult in Ngalas. And as one of the previous speakers mentioned, every time we turn around, we have a new city manager, a new city attorney, and it's like it's an election year. You know, if nothing else, wait till the election happens. I mean, why make choices for people that may not be here? So, I I implore you to reconsider termination. I mean, again, um I feel like um Mr. Kramer walked into like with us, if you recall, uh Roy would not um bring our contract to a vote to you all. We had to wait like three more months. Um and I mean, it's we've just gone through ridiculous things that did not need to happen. He has never once done that to us. He's been open. He communicates if we have questions and I think he generally cares about the employees. he cares about the city and I mean I think you you have somebody that's willing to work with you and you know if it's a case of there's something out there and I don't even know what that is like some of the in the windows tonight I'm not even sure what they were talking about but if there's issues out there work

together collaborate with each other collaborate with the city and you know work with the city manager and figure it out I mean again it's a waste of money uh his contract I think is up in February again, you've got elections coming up in November. So, why would you make this kind of a move right now? This just seems so so silly. Like, when I heard about this, I was actually shocked. And until I saw the agenda, I didn't really think it was happening. So, I implore you to reconsider because like I said, I think, like somebody has said, the man's not perfect. I'm not perfect. You know, I've been doing this a long, long time and sometimes my members are upset with me. you know, like you didn't do this, you didn't get back to me soon enough, something didn't happen. But, you know, we're all humans. We do the best we can. And for me, and I think Mr. Kramer is the same way, if somebody brings to my attention that there's a problem, either I can fix it or we can sit down and talk about it and reach a resolution. But please, um, don't don't do this now. I mean, the timing of this is just horrible. And I think it's going to set the city back years because I mean we're finally going in the right direction and making really positive changes. So please reconsider. Thank you.

Thank you. Next we have uh Dr. McMillan.

Dr. McMill. Hi, my name is The mic is

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Dr. McMillan. I am a general contractor licensed in Arizona for almost 40 years. I have built numerous buildings, especially all over the state of Arizona, but down here in Ngalas. I am currently building a self-s storage facility on Shell Road which is real close to Mariposa Road in 19. Currently, we have a stop order that was issued about a week ago because the stop order said that we didn't have permits. But I have been working on this project for two years and I have permits. We were given permits by the previous director of development and now because of changes made in the city of how they want to proceed from January 1st onward, we are stuck with not being able to fulfill our contracts with our owners and our suppliers. And so it's a a really a hard hardship. It's costing us thousands of dollars every day not being able to work. And one of my one of the partners in this development is a lady by the name of Susie Mastic. And the Mastic family has been in Ngalas for I believe over a hundred years with the Mastic Dairy and different things. And so we are established uh developers and we want to get this thing brought back online, but we're not getting the communication that we need or cooperation from the building department uh because they're being directed by Mr.

Kramer to uh basically set us up to not proceed. And that is the uh approval uh of the approval that we got originally back in February to start this project in construction and then a new permit that was issued in October, I believe, or November of this year to continue construction. And at a meeting at several meetings with the count uh all the directors of the fire department and building department and everything, we have met with them. We've complied with them. We have done everything in our power to uh meet with all the department heads and yet we're not getting nowhere with this project. And it's literally costing us thousands of dollars every day. So, what I'd like to get, if I was possible, to have the council direct uh Mr. Kramer to remove the stop order. Let us get back to work.

Go ahead. Last 10 seconds. Okay. and uh we'll be glad to fulfill whatever it is that the city's new agenda is. We'll will cooperate 100%. But we need to start construction. Thank you, sir. As soon as possible. Thank you. Thanks.

That is all we have. Call to the public, sir. Mayor uh council this gentleman to my right did not know that he needed to sign his paper before the meeting began. I don't know. There you go. Good. You got three m got three minutes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Ruskus.

I'm Jeffrey. I'm Jeffrey Laam and I hear myself back there. I live at 1481 North Royal Road in Ngalas. I've lived in Ngalas and worked here and raised children here off and on since 1972. My issue uh is with uh the Hermosa critical mineral project and I just recently became aware of the town of Patagonia, city of Ngialis, Santa Cruz County, South 32 early actions community investment funding agreement. Early actions funding agreement. I had no idea that this existed until I got an email the other day from the Patagonia Area Resource Alliance. I feel fortunate that they exist because they're able to keep an eye on the very complicated issues surrounding this mine that's going in in Santa Cruz County and all of the environmental uh complications associated with it that I'm sure none of nobody in this room is aware of everything that is happening. Um, and I didn't come here to oppose the mine because I don't think any of us has uh a snowballs chance in hell of opposing this mine. This mine is going in. It's been going in. It's a pet project from all the way to the White House. And um so there's so that's that. But we do have uh the we do have the possibility of at least watching what they're doing and help and cooperating with them to make sure to try and make

sure that at least they follow environmental policy. They don't ruin our water supply. They don't trash our environment, kill all our animals, you know, they don't they don't wreck our county so that we don't have like a a legacy for our children to inherit. Those are the kinds of things that concerned me. And when I looked when I looked at the documentation having to do with this agreement, this isn't the first pre-aggreement that I've seen that's kind of raised a red flag in my mind about this mine. uh they they've got an agreement that they want property owners to sign that has to do with relinquishing uh legal rights about about suing the about suing South 32, for example, if anything happens to their wells that relates to the mining operation and so on and so forth. Well, you know, these little things, all these little things that pop up. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but for example, the fact that these four these three meetings are happening simultaneously tonight, these are the little things that make me not trust not trust them. And I just all I want to do is just call your attention to the fact that I don't trust them

and I want you all to really do your homework and make sure you understand everything involved and what they're up to. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Next we move to uh presentations. Uh, A, excuse me, not A. Well, B, uh, American 250, Arizona Celebration, uh, library supervisor. Thank you. Good evening, mayor and members of the council and community. My name is Kalina Martinez and I serve as the library supervisor at the Ngales Santa Cruz County Public Libraries. It's an honor for me to be here today to present to you our collaboration with the America 250. Next, please. How does the library um connect with America 250? Well, this celebration um encourage communities to come together and reflect on how our local stories contribute to our nation. Now, no public library has been part of that since it's been here in our town since 1923. 103 years the library has been in our town and the Ngalas Public Library building has served as one of those institutions. Next, please. A current library building was designed in 1958 by architect Venny Gonzalez. Since opening, it has served generations of residents completing students completing their homeworks, family attending story times, seniors exploring new interests and community members seeking new knowledge, connection and opportunity. The library has evolved over the years, you know, expanding our services, integrating technology and offering programmings. Yet the foundation remains the same, providing free and equal access to everyone in our community. Right here I have two

pictures. On our left is a 1962 postcard. That's how it used to look. Our library, you know. So now on the right side, it's a current picture of our library. Next, please. The library building. Mr. Veny Gonzalez. He was a respected southwest architect who designed a civic structure reflect both modern and innovation. His work contributed to many buildings here in our community, houses, the library, the BFW. Um, so his work been in the library. He stayed um I'm sorry, the public library is an example of the mid century civic design that emphasized openness, accessibility, and community gathering. So for more than 60 years, this building has been more than bricks. It's been a landmark, a recognizable space uh in the heart of our city. And fun fact, the Ngales Public Library was actually Mr. Venice Wonal's first major project. Next, please. So, that's why the library was wondering what we can do to honor not only Mr. Benny's and the library. So, um, the city of Norales and the America 250 committee came together and decided to design a library card, a new library card featuring a photograph of the library from 1962 building. This image captured the library as it stood at the beginning, a symbol of foundation, vision, and a commitment to education. A library requirement seems small but it represents access, opportunity and belonging to our community. So right now council I'll give to all of you one library card. Hoping you guys can come and visit us and use our service and community too. I invite all of you to stop the library and get one of our new commemorated library cards

and use one of our services that are free for a community. Next, please. Not only to I inviting you to get a library card, but also this upcoming Friday, March 6, here at city hall, we'll be hosting the um road to 250 Arizona Traveling Museum. Nales has been selected as one of those official stops statewide, so we are honored to be included. The traveling museum features a semi-tra transforming to a mobile exhibition filled with history. displays that highlights our story nation. So this exhibition will be happening on Friday from 10 to 6 pm. Next please. Once again I want to say thank you for this opportunity coming up here and speak to all of you and we wait all for you at the library.

Thank you Karina. Thank you. Thank you. I just want to remind Karina can you remind them with this card they can also do what with magazines and books. Yeah. So as libraries keep spending expanding I'm sorry not only you know with physical books but also with the online services we have an app that you can download your phone your tablet and you get access to books, movies, audios everything for free just on the hand of your library card. Thank you very much. Next we move to item five uh financial monthly report.

No Michael's going to is Michael is moved to E on orders. I mentioned it when we start. You got it. Uh Mr. So now we have my presentation A was moved with orders E. Okay.

Good evening, mayor and council members. In front of you, you have a hard copy of the January financial report that includes all revenues, expenditures for the general HERF, I mean general fund, HERF, water, sewer, and sanitation. Both revenues expenditures should be around 58.3%. And with that that said, uh let's begin the presentation. On table A, you'll see that general funds year-to- date revenues are at 17,913 and 100 913,98 and expenditures are at 21,959,333. With the general fund revenues, that's 62.6% of what was budgeted for the year. Share revenues are at 5,43,507. That's at 55.5% of the budget. Local sales tax on table B, please. Next, we have uh 1,496, 798 and that's uh 91,205 more than previous January, last year.

Excuse me. Yes. on table A. Mhm. How did we go down to less, you know, here to date revenues less than at 6 million? And then uh what part? Right there on the right on top.

What portion is saying? Excuse The second line on the on the top right, you say that we're revenue expenses were less than year to date. Oh no. 6,163. That is outrageous. Talking about the local sales tax when I was talking about that. Excuse me. No. At the top where it says year-to- date revenues are less than year-to- date expenses.

Oh yes. So the expenditures are 21,959,333 and the year-to-day revenues are 17 million 913 and 198,000. So that's the the differences from the revenues. I don't know if I updated the numbers there, but I can get you the those numbers. Oh yeah, that's less than four million. Yes, I can get you those numbers if you want. So that number is incorrect. Yes, I updated the table just I didn't update that top number. Thank you.

See back to uh table B. Currently we're at 361,46 below from last year. on the general fund expenditures we're at 51.7% and uh table C again next please the some of two of the departments show that they're currently higher than the 58.3% that they supposed to be indicated and all those two departments are being monitored which is the city manager and city attorneys Next for HERF and overweight fees, the revenues for HERF are 1.8 1,897,495 which is at 65.2% of the budget. Overweight fees are at 184,669 which is 61.6% of the budget. The HERF expenditures are below budget at 1.1,400,000. So, and 4 at uh 41.6% of the budget. Overweight fees expenditures are below budget as well at 98,99 which is uh 10.7%. Next sewer fund revenues as of year to date are 2,141,445 which is 65.55% of the budget. Expenditures are at 1,380,

333 which is 42% of the budget. The year-to-day revenues are more than the year-to-day expenses by 761,11212. Next, for the water fund, the revenues collected are 2,65,839,000 which is at 61.5% of the budget. The expenditures are at 2,232,633, which is at 53.9% of the budget. The year-to-day revenues are less than the year-to-day expenses by 166,794 for the water fund. Next, for the sanitation fund, we collected 1,850,877, which is at 66% of the budget. Expenditures are at 1,845,451, which is 49.1% of the budget. The year-to-day revenues are more than the year-to-day expenses by $222,44. business license as of of February, we have excuse me,

they're they're more by 214 for sanitation fund. Yes, the revenues are $222,44 more than the revenue spent. And on the right the year to date we're on expenses we're more no we have less expenditures than revenues. Okay for the sanitation. Thank you.

Mhm. And for business license as of February we have 2,890 active business licenses. There have been no we're not no cancellations of suspended licenses and we had uh five new licenses during the concludes the financial report so do we have any questions any questions go ahead Mr. And

yes, when you said there's no cancellation of business licenses, uh uh have what is cancellation cover cancellation? Yeah, they cancel a business license. Business license is not being renewed on a timely matter or uh no normally is if they cancel their their business license or they end up they close a business during that month. Thank you. Any more questions? Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Next, we move to item seven, liquor license. Uh, you have a error, Mr. Mayor, on 7A. The actual event date is April 24th and not the 4th. Thank you sir. Council, do you understand that the actual date is April 24th, not April 4th? Okay. A a consideration consideration and possible action on liquor license number 2026-1 consideration of the recommendation to approve the insurance of a special liquor special event liquor license submitted by Herman Sallaya on behalf of the Boys Club of Santa Cruz County for the 2026 Fiesta Produce Carnasa event scheduled for February, April 24th. for excuse me for Friday, April 24th, 2026 from 10:00 a.m. to 700 p.m.

Second.

Any discussion? All in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. Next we have U B. Consideration possible action on liquor license number 2026-2 consideration of the recommendation of to approve the insurance of a special liquor license submitted by Margarita Garcia FedEx on behalf of Lordes Catholic School for the Bingo LCS event scheduled for Wednesday, March 18, 2026 from 10:00 a.m. to 11 p.m.

Any discussion? All in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. We move to number eight. Orders consideration possible action of orders 2026- 03-00009. an order of the c of the council of the city of Ngalos, Arizona, approving a highway safety contract with the Arizona governor's office of highway safety for the reimbursement in the amount of $8,01 for the purchase of shout safety seats. Second.

Any discussion? All in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. B. consideration and possible action of order 2026-03-010 an order of the council of the city of Ngalas Arizona approving a highway safety contract with the Arizona governor's office of highway safety for the reimbursement of overtime police officers working DUI impaired driving enforcement in the amount of $6,500. Second.

Any discussion? All in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. C. Consideration and possible action of order 2026-03-011. an order of the council of the city of Ngal, Arizona approving a highway safety contract for the selective traffic enforcement program step with the Arizona governor's office of highway safety for the reimbursement of overtime and for the purchase of equipment like theirs um in the amount of 25,740.

Any discussion? All in favor? I the consideration and possible action of order number 2026-03-012 an order of the mayor and city council of the city of Ngalas Arizona approving a users agency agreement with sir jobs for progress of southern Arizona Inc. for participation in the youth service work experience program. Second. Any discussion? All in favor?

I. All oppose. Motion passes. We go to E. Consideration and possible action of order number 2026-03-013. An order of the council of the city of Ngalis, Arizona, approving the sale and execution of pledge revenue and refunding obligations authorizing the execution and delivery of related agreements and documents delegating authority to the mayor and the city manager and authorizing all other necessity actions. Okay. Uh Mr. Ruskus, we're this where we're going to

Yeah, we're going to do the presentation. Presentation. There's one quick legal item that I'd like to discuss with council on this agenda item. If we could go into a quick executive session and I could explain that real quick. So, it's okay. But we'd need a a motion and a second to go into executive session. I move to move to a quick um executive session. I second. Second. All in favor? Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to step into a quick uh

second session. Thank you. All right.

We reconvene from executive session.

Just reconvene. Motion to reconvene from executive session. Second. All

in favor? I. Okay. Mr. Ruskus. Uh we would you do your presentation a city infrastructure outlook. Mayor, council, thank you for having me. This is a presentation that both Mr. Kramer and I are going to work through together. Um the agenda item is for the potential refinancing of existing debt for debt service savings and potentially the issuance of some new money. This however this presentation is going to cover a little bit more um an update on the city's engineer report of the water and wastewater system and a few other items related to WIFFA. Uh next page please. Um so as we mentioned last time last council meeting uh Mr. Kramer had hired uh somebody in house to do an evaluation of the city's water and wastewater system. I just met the gentleman tonight and I understand that that that study should be mostly complete by the end of this month. Um that will um likely give the council a lot more clear a clearer idea of what the water and wastewater system looks like. Um a few years ago, the city had borrowed approximately $15 million from WIFA both for its water and wastewater system. as as we've discussed um many of those projects have not been finished and in order to complete them we would have to go back to WIFA and borrow a substantial uh amount of money in addition to what you already borrowed. Um also we're hoping that the engineering study will give council an idea of what is immediately failing, what might fail in the next five years and what might uh fail in the next 10 years. So you can begin to a budget uh appropriately and have an idea of what you're dealing

with. Uh Mr. Kramer, would you like to add anything uh to that? No, that's but that's fine. I we haven't met David, but David, if you could stand up, please. So just so everyone know this is David, our our engineer. He is doing the study. We we did did bring him in. So it's certainly helpful to what we had talked about in the beginning of or the end of last year certainly. But it's important that we we're going to have this study hopefully by April or excuse me May's meeting we'll we'll bring Michael back to discuss more on this. So thank you Michael.

Absolutely. And then I guess to to finish it off once we do have that list and council is a able to see it. Um I think that I would ask and uh Mr. Kramer would would likely direct that a capital improvement uh study be done. So, um, we we have this in writing for you going forward and and you know what projects are a priority for you and which ones can fall, you know, not not so much as a priority. Um, next item is whiffle loans. So, we discussed the 2020 loan um and and upon getting the engineer study, we can figure out what we're going to do with that 2020 loan. That meaning that um are are is the city going to elect not to finish those projects and not borrow any more money uh to finish those? Is it going to do a portion of those projects or is it going to do all of those projects? So, that's something that we will will be deciding or this uh the council will be deciding uh shortly. Also, we're looking at a potential 2026 whiff loan which was approved uh last council meeting and that will be in conjunction with a NATA bank grant that Mr. Kramer uh is is working on.

Yeah, just to piggyback on that, I believe that uh we are meeting with him next week. He's coming into town from uh I believe on Monday at 2 p.m. to look at the nogalitos area and to get an infrastructure at least an idea of what we can do over there. Is is that correct, Mr. Garcia? Yes. Thank you.

And then a final question on the whiffal loans going forward. Is that something that council wants to uh allow staff to run in-house or do they want to hire somebody special to manage these projects and make sure that they're done accordingly and that there is somebody has skin in the game? Um it's a question for council. Next page, please. Uh the the rate study, we started a rate study almost a year ago and it hasn't been completed. Uh the major reason is in order to complete that we really need to know what projects are going to be financed so that we can build that into the rate study. Additionally when we started that rate study it was not a complex rate study. It was based on what was done before and we were just going to update that. Um having discussed the potential amounts the large amounts that that the city might have to borrow. Um one question came uh from council member Bonia. Well, you know, that that's likely going to hurt a lot of our constitu constituents and they probably can't afford that. So, is it possible to maybe adjust that study so that maybe we can account for or adjust for some of those constituents? Is that correct, Council Member Bu? Um, so that's that's something that the council would have to decide or or staff would have to decide if we want to adjust that study to to to make allowances for that. um timing to completion on that it it probably is uh from the from the time there's direction given that's probably a month month and a half uh for that study to be completed. Um next is general capital improvements. So we we discussed water and wastewater but at the same time um you know there are building improvements, street improvements and potential park improvements. So also something that Mr. Kramer and I had discussed is is uh

doing a separate capital improvement plan for the city for for its general improvements. Um so it's just something that I wanted to to put in front of council. Um lastly is the actual agenda item. So the the city um has a number of outstanding uh debt issuances secured by excise tax. Uh one is from 2014 and one is from 2015 and they are now callable. That means that we are able to refinance them. Uh there's usually a 10-year PAR call. We're at that point and rates right now on those refinancing those we're we're at approximately 3% net present value savings. So we would refund approximately $10 million worth of uh the city's existing debt. And based on uh market rates right now, there's probably a $5 to $600,000 net present value savings on refinancing that built into the resolution is that uh we could not refinance those bonds unless we meet that 3% savings. So the professionals just don't get to go and make money uh and not save you money. That's that's the presentation. Questions, please. Or or Mr. Kramer, do you have anything to add? No, I think that you've mentioned everything financially certainly and then the other aspects that pertain to what we need to do inhouse certainly are relevant to the direction and the future of the city of Ngalas. And as we said, it's it's going to be a five-year plan. And so whatever we do, we're certainly going to look at that. But for starters is certainly again everyone that's in the Natalitos area that is funded, we are moving in that direction. So, we will be those streets and we'll bring that presentation back to the council once we know more about how that's going to work.

Thank you. Yes, sir. Mr. D, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Um, you know, one of the things that I experienced when I was mayor was that, you know, and they and actually with uh uh people up there, the the the board and the chairman were very happy that I went up there one time when we asked for the loan that the mayor uh took the time to go over there and uh request their help. So I uh have you have you seen that in the most recent past? Is that still I'm talking about 10 years ago. So, uh uh is it is it good for the mayor when they when they when that issue comes up to go before the board and uh uh and kind of uh make a personal request for the city of Ngales considering that we are that this is a community that we don't have a lot of money. uh the normal I think uh I guess income here is in the late uh high 20s or something like that the average and and they take those things in consideration. Uh so I was just asking to see if you might say how that would help the city for the mayor to go and request uh personally I give it a personal touch with a wea focus

council member Doyles. So that's unusual. Most mayors don't take the time to do those kinds of things, but I I can't imagine that that it it could only help. Mayor, Council Member Doyle's trying to guilt you into going up to the Ward. And mayor, and please extend the invitation for him to come down here, spend some money, and just for information or purposes, I I know the current chairman, so if you would like a meeting, I can arrange that for you. And I'm happy to accompany anything to help the city. That's what I'm here for. Uh any other questions or comments. And

if we could just have another motion on the agenda item since it was done super quick before the presentation. So I want you to have all the information to make that decision.

So do we have a motion? I I'll read it again. consideration and possible action uh of order number 2026-03-013 an order of the council of the city of Ngalas Arizona approving the sale and execution of pledge revenue and refunding obligation authorizing the execution and delivery of related agreements and documents delegating authority to the mayor and the city manager and authorizing All other necess necessary actions. Any more comments? Do I have? All those in favor?

I. All those opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Ruskus. Thank you, council. Thank you, Mayor. We go to number nine. Discussion action items. A uh discussion possible action termination of the contract of for city manager Joe Kramer. Mr. Bonz or Mr. Do.

Yes, Mayor. I I placed that on on the agenda because of u all the complaints I've received mostly from the business people that that have projects uh trying to unfold here in the city and they've been waiting for over 6 months and and they keep uh kind of the city keeps toying with them. uh kind of similar to with the person that came and spoke a while ago about one of the projects on on storage things. Uh others have been on on buildings uh developing uh homes and and it's projects that we've okayed already. The council has okayed months ago, eight, nine months ago in and they still can't start construction because uh our city manager is uh putting more I guess bumps uh along the way and uh and they feel, you know, they they they're professional people. Some are, you know, they they have engineering degrees and and they're complaining about that the people that we have are not responding in a professional way, especially when a lot of people have been let go in important positions and the city manager hasn't done anything to open those positions up. uh as soon as a position of importance is, you know, it loses its director, it should have been placed right away before the council so that uh we could open that position and and find somebody that's qualified and professionally qualified. They have uh no faith in the city manager because he

has a u I guess a person right under him in public works, the director that they say doesn't know anything about public works and and it's uh that's shameful to hear all these things cuz uh it's it's setting back the city. We're losing a lot of money. They're losing a lot of money. they're, you know, uh, one of the projects that has been held back, they feel they've lost over $150,000 because they haven't started construction and and they they aren't here. You know, I see the people that come, they don't they don't like these are people that that deal with with big amounts of money and they don't want to come and and uh and sit here and let us know, but they they complain to the council. I'm sure there's other council members that probably heard their complaints, but the thing is that we can't allow that to continue. And we also there's a problem with the morale. There's also employees that have been calling. I guess they don't call the union cuz they don't feel they get anywhere with the union. So, they call us that about morale being down of city employees. They're in fear of getting fired or some getting some kind of retaliation. And and these are problems that we don't need. We don't need that type of atmosphere in our city. CL I'm sure there's some that are very positive because those are the favorite employees. They'll speak well about the city manager because of course they're driving brand new trucks uh and they're treated very well. But how about the other employees? How about the ones that have no voice that because you know and they don't and and they stand for their ethical views. They stand for principles and and they they don't sell themselves out. So how about them? Are they going to be ret is there going to be retaliation on them? Is there going to

be, you know, are they going to be mistreated just because somebody wants to be a dictator over them? No. We don't need that kind of that kind of leadership in the city. uh you know we need more transparency and accountability. We don't have it. Uh the again you know if if we uh if we follow the the the guidelines and the rules well you know we would have a better system or at least anyway the city manager should have should be the example of that. instead he kind of led us to uh well he like somebody said that we when we're officials we swear we make a a note uh of the constitution and of the constitution of our city the city charter that we're supposed to follow it Mr. Kramer, according to the constitution of the city, should have been fired a long time ago when he decided to live in Rio Rico uh after he became a city manager. You are not allowed to do that under under the city charter right away. If you can't live here in in the city, you're gone. You're you're you're not you lose your position as city manager. and instead he was able to get us quarters to give him an extension of that time for a year. And that's illegal. That that definitely is illegal for the to break the city charter. And again, we even fell prey to that. And there's still some of us here sitting uh that that get manipulated by him. He's very good at at giving promises, but that's all we hear. more promises and more promises. The thing is that we need to put a stop. We need to to improve the leadership in the in in

this city and and show the people that we're responsive to their needs, not just to those that are favored. It's it's for everyone. We we're supposed to, you know, the whole city we're supposed to represent, not just a few. and and that's the reason that I that I place this um so that hopefully the members of this council will reflect on that. I'm sure a lot of know there of course there's some good things always but we can't afford to have the bad that's being shown and the fear that some of the people have including our employees and this is not just our employees. This goes out to the city uh residents and and most of the business people uh they say that he's very vindic and and they don't they don't feel they shouldn't have to have that kind of leadership in our community. So that's the reason I'm placing my my first thought is for the people of our community, for employees, for for people not to have fear and and the decisions that they make or if if they want to be some of them don't don't even want to be a whistleblower because they're afraid they'll get retaliated. But yet, if somebody stands within this council, I'm sure we're going to bring more proof of what's going on. I'm sure they'll want to be witnesses of what's going on. And that's why I'm putting this so that we can have these people come in and kind of give us their view and know the facts of what are going on. And there's other discrepancies that actually break the rules not only but the law. And so those are the ones that

need to be investigated. And this is just really the beginning. But I just want the people in our community to know that there's members in this council that represent them and we're going to stand for them irregardless of intimidation or anything else. uh you know and and that's the important thing that we give transparency and accountability uh if there's money getting lost we want to know if it I know it's in the millions it's not hundreds of thousands it's in the millions and I don't want to you the public later to say oh how come nobody said anything there in the city if they were aware of it why why didn't they bring it up like the county they blamed the supervisor ers. Well, I'm one councilman that will speak out for your interest and for the best interest of the community, and that's why I placed it on on the agenda. Uh if whatever council want, however the rest of the council may want to vote or support, it's up to them. But I'm voicing my opinion. I know Mr. Bonas uh is also uh we we found out we had the same interest. Uh, actually he put a different he put his own agenda item. I wasn't aware of it. I put my own. I don't know if it was a clerk or Mr. Kramer who brought this together as as like a co-sponsor. Uh, uh, who who who put both of our names on the same

the city clerk did. I did, sir, because it was two similar items. Um, so I just added both of you together.

Well, well, thank you. We I guess we we had the same mindset and uh he went he was going in his own direction. I was going my own direction again answering to our to our constituents uh responding to their needs and to their fears. Uh so I guess you brought us together in that sense. I just want that zone. Uh but thank you uh our city clerk uh Mr. Melendez. Uh motion

uh so I make a motion to to replace Mr. Kramer as it as I place it here that by terminating his contract with the with the city of Ngalas as city manager. That's my motion. I second it. I call to the question. Mr. Let's vote any comment. No, I just called to the question. I second and I called it to a question. Yeah. So he called the question. So that terminates any discussion with regard to the item under the Robert's rules. You need to vote on the call to the question.

You can vote on the call the question. So you can vote if you want to call the question and then have discussion and then move to have discussion. Let's see. Did you understand? So are we have we don't have the vote to culture the question? Yes. The question is is whether or not council can or cannot have discussion on the item. So you're calling the question. So there's a the the pending issue on the floor is whether or not the council wants to call the question or they want to continue discuss. So So is there a motion on that or for the call of the question?

It's supposed to be a motion to call the question. Okay. Okay, I make a motion to call on the question. Do I have a second? Or you made that motion, didn't you? Yes, we just have to vote. He made that motion. Call the question. I second it. So now now we can vote on the call the question. Do you want Sorry. You want to call the question or have debate? That would be the M council want u all in favor of call for the question or I I nay I have a question before I answer. So

but denying it means that we can go ahead and speak our whatever we want. Huh? Yes. Okay. So it's no. Okay. So motion fails to call for the question. Now we go back uh to discussion. Correct sir? Mhm. Yes. Because a call of the question requires a twoth3 vote to pass. So it fails. So then you go back to having debate on discussion. Discuss discussion and debate on the pending motion which is still on the table with regard to the motion to terminate. Does anybody have any discussion? I have something to say. Go ahead, Miss Bara.

Well, there are two sides to every story and Mr. Kramer was hired to clean up the city and he has done that. We have had department heads that have been removed for obvious reasons. Also, the employees that are probably terrified of Mr. Kramer are probably the ones that are guilty of something because I have spoken to the employees and I know the union is involved and they are not afraid to speak up. They're coming up and wanting to speak now, not like before where they were kept quiet because it was retaliation. Mr. Kramer has done everything we have asked them for. And being born and raised in Ogalas, I've never seen the city so well taken care of as it is now. I I can't People are terrified of change. We finally have somebody that's strong, that's doing something. He's not a politician. He's doing the right thing. But yet, as soon as there's change, oh my god, let's run and let's put things the way they were at the good old boys. And I'm totally against that. I want change. I want no Gallas to go forward. Mr. Kramer is a visionary. He's moving us forward. And for people not to accept change, I just don't get it. That's not what we're here for. We're here for the betterment of Ngalas. And that's what he's doing along with us. We agreed for everything that he did. There's nothing, oh uh illegal or hiding. There's nothing like that. You were in there when we voted for him and when we extended the contract. So don't come on here and saying that it was done secretly or whatever you're insinuating cuz that is not correct. I'm here for Mr. Kramer. I'm here for the people as well. That's what I want to do. What's best for the community and he is transparent and he has an open door policy. Nobody can say it's not true because he does.

I'm here to make Nogalas move forward to change for the youth that we've never had anything since I was a kid. Now my my daughters are grown now for my grandkids. There's nothing around for no gallons for our kids. He's making that change. I've gone to him. We've talked about it. We discussed it. He does listen. He is transparent. He's not hiding. He's not like all the other administrations going manager after manager after manager. It's just it it just blows my mind that the mentality we we can't have that. We need what he's offering us for the city to move forward. Thank you. Yes, Mayor.

Mr. D.

Uh again, this is just uh the surface that we're scraping. uh there'll be some legal illegal legal issues coming out and uh of course he'll have a right to defend himself. Uh but I think if we take action on this and uh we don't have to go to those extremes of of actually bringing out proof of different uh I guess uh laws that he's broken, but because it just downgrades our whole system. Uh again, uh he knows what they're about, I'm sure. And um uh if we have to bring it back with proof on the next uh meeting, well, we'll go ahead and do that. But uh I'm trying to avoid more more serious issues of uh of uh actually, you know, letting the people know by by facts and proof of of what's been going on. And so, uh, again, uh, we placed it, um, again, I don't know the extent of, uh, Councilman Bonia's, uh, feelings on this, but these are mine. And, uh, again, I'm here to represent overall the people, especially the business community that are so upset with the way his dictatorial uh, the way he acts towards them. again, he favors those that he likes, like certain councilmen here. Uh, and Florence, you're going to be pleased with that. I don't I don't I don't blame you for that. But we're here for all the community, not just a few. And and again, that's the reason that I'm placing this. And, you know, I guess when when we have all the facts and the proof, then we'll revisit this. And in

case if if you don't feel that strong about it tonight, uh that's fine. Uh it'll only show that either you're going to represent the people of this community lawfully or you're going to represent the city manager with his ways. So, you know, that's eventually you're all going to have to come to that decision. But anyway, I'm glad that that uh Mr. Bonas also placed that and we're able to talk about this. Mr. Mr. Bonius, go ahead.

Mayor and councel and fellow constituency. I um I want to share a little bit about my journey into making this decision. Um I had to go through a uh anger management class. Of course, I'm not done with it yet, but I did take an additional course talking about mental health, uh, work trauma, stress, and how that debiliates, uh, dis disables the employees, the city, and I will admit that Mr. Kramer has done. I've probably been one of the biggest advocates in the past of Mr. Kramer, but what I started to to notice is that our employees were going into a very dark place. Mental health nowadays, if you if you we just had a shooting was a homicide a few days ago because of mental health, if we do not take up our employees first, it doesn't matter what we do for infrastructure. It doesn't matter what we do for budgeting. it doesn't do because we need to take care of our employees and that is priority one for me. When an employee is no longer wanting to come to work, when it's no longer fun or comfortable to be in the workplace and you're constantly getting bered and you get bered by complaints on a daily basis, then you have to take a step back. Are we doing more good or are we doing more bad? And our employees come first. The well-being of our employees come first. Mental health matters. Thank you,

Miss Melendez. Yeah, I just want to mention I've been getting not only two or three but several I can tell you about 12 calls from employees and they're honest employees. They're not crooked nor nothing like that and they are afraid and I told you Mr. Kramer that I got those calls and I don't know why are they afraid. I've been working with you and I've been doing it fine. But employees are different and they they're thinking different and they are afraid and that's what they have been telling me. I just wanted to let one last com

I have received several calls and meetings with employees as well because I'm into with the labor with the unions. I really support them and I know they go to Miss Hatfield as well. They come to me in person, by phone. I listen to them and it's not because they're afraid. It's because they're happy that he's here. That's the other side of the coin. They're happy that he's here, that they're able to do their job. They're not afraid of retaliation for the other people that are employed there that make their life miserable. Mental health, I'm all about that. After this session, I'm going to need some therapy.

Anybody else have any comment? I do. Go ahead, Mr. Go. Go ahead. I'll I'll finish it up.

It just came to me that you know that uh somebody out in the audience was giving him credit and and and some here of people that has replaced and and I remember they mentioned uh Mr. Kissinger and Mr. Bermudes, just so the public will know, Mr. Kramer had nothing to do with that cuz he wasn't even here when they when they turned in the resignations. Uh he came in afterwards. That's why he replaced uh Mr. Red Moose, but he had nothing to do with they resigned on on their own. They one had a better job offer. Uh the other one was been here long enough. he wanted to kind of take a break and enjoy, you know, his years before he goes over over and has health issues. I imagine most of us when we get up to that age want to take it easy for a while. So, in all fairness to those people, I just want to put it out there that nobody forced them to retire. They did it on their own. uh one for well for different reasons but one of them got a a a better job and uh and he went uh with that. So I just want to make sure that they don't hear this and feel like wait a minute, you know, why did they throw us under the bus for no reason? Uh again, we're thankful for everyone that has served. It's I know that it's not an easy job uh you know uh doing this because there's we know to start off with we have how many 300 some employees um and and you know that's but it's very hard when when you don't when directors leave that we that are not replaced right away. It's a lack of leadership really. Uh again, uh we we didn't hire him just to to you know uh make the city look pretty or or have a park or two, a

new park. No, there's a lot more serious issues and and and a lot of that now the negativism that comes comes directly from him of how he affects people that are under him. And so I stand up on behalf of those people and again for those business people that are losing thousands of dollars a day because of his lack of leadership of and the people that he chooses that work under him that are not qualified. and and again they'll I'll hopefully if we go to a ne another session another meeting with this I'll I'll tell them to show up and speak their minds so that all of the all the whole city can hear about it. We're not we don't I'm not making this up. They're there. And again I said there's other more serious issues that we're going to bring uh in the near future of of v violations on his behalf. So again, if if that's what needs to get done, we'll get it done. Uh thank you, mayor. Anybody else? Okay, I'll put in my my word. Since uh this employment started in the city, you know, a lot of people know me. My my doors have been open. Unfortunately, with with this city manager, my doors seem to be closed. When I walk by his office, his door is closed. when we here in the city have capable people to do the bank building to do the western building and to do a bunch of projects.

We have fear beer of businesses coming to Ngales cuz all the implementations and details that they have had to go through. We have state qualified people, contractors here to do those jobs. You know, my my main thing is to look after the community businesses, look after the community, uh, you know, support the community uh, workers and we don't see that bank building, you know, and I got nothing against the people that got that God shows it. Mcklli, where are they from? Out of the city. Uh, you know who? Yes, we're not professional pavers, but we got new pavers. Uh, out of the city. We do a We We do a lot of in in-house paving. We haven't done that. You know, the only place we did in-house was Kino Park. Who does Kino Park belong to? The state. Uh-huh. Not the city. But I think that was a big conflict of interest cuz somebody else works there. That's I got no problem with that. But you know that that paving could have got in in another higher traffic road that could have appreciated a lot more than a parking lot that gets 60 vehicles in a day. You know, those things are important.

I'm here for you guys, those that know me. Uh, I've been over backwards to get this city. But communication, you you know how many times he calls me in two weeks, in three weeks, in four weeks? None. He expects me to go to his office. Where am I? I'm in meetings with politicians. I'm in meeting with with investors. I'm in meetings with, you know, people trying to know about the city. I'm in meeting with, you know, people that are, you know, border patrol, the CBPs, you know, whoever I invites me, I try to make those meetings. I am and I have a council but I am their representative. I am your representative. Uh you know Washington, Phoenix or local businesses. I try to do my diligence to represent this city to my fullest. Uh, and how how does it sound that we have businesses that are afraid to come cuz the bureaucracy that we have in our process? Uh, when we want to work with the county, I have my friends in the county, Miss Everybody says my friends, they have they work with us. They want to work with us. But yet we have a person that he says, "I'll take care of it." No, it's everybody. Uh I don't like I've said it before, I don't drown in a glass of water. I look for solutions. I look for opportunities. Ngalis is right now

as a border city. And everything we receive, everything we receive comes from where? The south. Everything comes from the south. Forest, produce, even the sewer water, rain, everything comes from the south. We wouldn't have our neighbor on the south. No gallus would be nothing. We would be then we we would really be struggling. Uh but yet luckily my experience, my lifestyle, my my work has given me that opportunity to be in Mexico for 35 years. And we can take advantage of that. They've How many warehouses do we have here? Produce warehouses. How many are owned by people in Mexico? You know, if those people wouldn't chip through Ngales, what would Ngalas be? We have to I know make a change. We have to support our local businesses. You know, I see some people out there that play pickle ball who started doing the pickle ball court. The one back here. Huh? What? How long did the lighting take? It was already set and structured dismantled. Now why if it was it was already set and had its expended you know it's money for it then we look we look at you know all the all the projects that we do how many go through us who remembers the paper

boy the paper boy right on Crawford turning to going going to the right before you go to the border Unfortunately, international issues here and I felt sorry when I found out I found out by the community that they took it down. What? Where's our communication? I told a couple of council people that they took it down. I said, "Why?" Huh? They took it down. Huh? Why? Who made that decision? Not us. Uh there's a lot of stuff that's being done that is not going through council. Uh we should be the ones making the decisions for the for the city. He's our employee that directs the directors and the directors direct their employees. But when we don't know about it, why? You know how bad I feel when when I'm out there and I don't know what's going on. You know, we have cell phones. or call be nice, but I went through the community and I got elected to be in this position. Uh, and I've done it to the best of my knowledge. Uh, however, it's very hard and I I don't have the cooperation of administration. It makes it very hard. You know, how can

we be losing in front of our eyes businesses that want to come over here but can't because of our process? You know, I talked to again the county. How can we work together? How to make it a one-stop shop? How do we make city progress? Huh? We don't not like this. Everybody's afraid. You know, the border the border is our livelihood. You know, our border is our livelihood. My communi communication with Mexico to get border crossing, you know, faster and everything. That's our livelihood. Uh we depend on Mexican people coming into our city. That's what leaves us our revenue. That's probably 65 70 or more of our revenue. You know, Friday we had a great event. Friday we had a great event. 32 new houses, groundbreaking. Great event. I get a call that same week, last week, and can you get us some flags? Yeah, I have US and Arizona flag in my office. Yeah, no problem. Can you get us a podium? Yeah, I I should be able to get it. a podium. We requested it

to parks and wreck from my office. My office actually parks and wreck called Mr. Kramer denied a podium denied for a great event. Yeah, it wasn't my event, but how hard is it to take a podium at 9 in the morning and pick it up at 1? A podium. I'm a sucker for for rules. I bend them, but don't break them. Huh? It wouldn't have been hard to take a podium. I bend them, but don't break them. Huh? for a good cause, for a great cause. Uh, let me tell you, I was extremely happy that that project finally broke ground and extremely happy with all the people that I saw there. But we can't continue like that. Uh, we can't continue. You know, I see faces out here that have struggled have struggled with the city the way we're at. Again, I do also talk with employees and not just one, many. And I I get I see their fear. I see their fear. And you know, we can't go like that. I know there's better ways to doing business. There's better ways. You know, I could talk to somebody over here. When I talk somebody over here, it's it all depends who you're talking to. Uh you you got to feel it out and have a different character. It's not a me me this way, this way, this way. You know, it's always

different, but you got to, you know, we're here to represent the city. We're here to open our How can we help? what can we do and then find the solution. That's what we're here for, finding the solutions. And as far as cleaning the city, ever since day one of me coming in, you know, with the city manager and deputy c city manager that we had. Yes, we were doing it. We were already doing it. Yes. the the railroad. It was I think a combination because I was already talking to the director for the last three years and finally we got it. Uh we finally got them allowing us to clean all the way to a railroad. When had the railroad listened to the city of Noguel? Never. Not that I could remember. Finally, we got them to let us allow allow us to clean all the way to the railroad. But, you know, neither here or there. I think you the people deserve deserve something better. you, you know, in communication, in opening our doors, in, you know, businesses being able to get licenses, you know, when you get a a permit authorized back in February of 2025 and then in February 23rd of 26, you get it cancelled cuz it says you don't have a permit. So, what happened to the permit? that gentleman had on February 4th, 2025. Now it's not

worth anything. You know, when I I received this today and when I saw it, I said, "What? You're already your business, your permit is already in progress." you know, he has a lot of commitments in having to rent tractors, rent equipment, rent, you know, now is stopped because his employees can't work. His contracted his contracted uh businesses that were set to do the the job are now stopped. Why? Huh? you know, yes, he cleaned up some, you know, this city had issues. Uh, we had issues some some unfortunately some employees. Uh, I'm not I'm not against that. Uh, but how do we do it? We do it right. You know, I don't know how many lawsuits we got coming. I don't know how many uh you know writeups he's we've had in the last year. You know, some some employees get write up written up just cuz they they uh try to, you know, put their word and they but we can't work like that. I think, you know, we we we have uh options. We have options with other uh ex city managers and there's a light at the end of the tunnel where employees will be happy. We're losing employees left and right. Who's going to work do that work? We

have to work together. Thank you. Any other comments? Yep. turn. Mr. Estes, with all these allegations and accusations against uh Mr. Kramer, does he is he afforded due process like to have proof of this everyone? Well, Councilman Doyle and the mayor with all these accusations and allegations against Mr. Kramer, is he afforded due process? That's my question. lake.

So, the the short answer is yes. If if council were to vote to terminate the contract that the the the charter provides for a an opportunity for the manager to request a hearing and a formal hearing before council with regard to those matters. Thank you. And the paper boy statue is up on Crawford and Grant. the statue.

It's there. Okay, Miss Montiel, I don't have an answer to that. No, no, you wanted to speak.

Yeah. Well, you can tell it's a political year, right? Um, so I don't know where to start and and and how to start, but um, you know, everyone's entitled to their opinion and we we have a lot of those and it's okay. and having a voice is is is what makes this country what it is. And having um an opinion is what this country is all about. Um Mr. Mr. Kramer has a contract and I believe he should fulfill his contract and I also believe that we've been here and Mr. and the mayor's been here and many of you have been here that evaluating a city manager has not been happening for years and years. There's never been an evaluation of a of a city manager and he although he just started we haven't even evaluated him yet. And when Miss Bara says about allegations, it's it's, you know, some of us uh are good about making certain allegations, but we have an attorney and I'm sure that the attorney and a good attorney that we have um would have not allowed Mr. Kramer to make decisions that he's there to protect the attorney and the law firm is there to protect the interests of the city of Ngales and the residents. And I'm sure and have confidence in Mr. Justice that anything that he has done, it has gone through legal. And his approach might not be um what we or some of you like, but all of us here have different approaches on how to deal with things and issues. And I feel that

we should fulfill the contract. we have a responsibility to the taxpayer like we have responsibilities as a public officials and evaluating him in the future based on the goals he has set and we have set we haven't set goals we haven't even sat down we never talked um we never evaluate any of the of the city managers before. So to say that he hasn't fulfilled um some of the responsibilities or he's taken it upon himself to make some decisions um it's it's almost like you know not fighting a fair fight and this thing with the employees there are how many employees Mr. Kramer

255

255 and in every institution every municipality you have employees that are not happy and employees that that are very happy. So that's very subjective. We all have been called upon and we have people that are courageous to come to the to the council and voice their opinion. Good for them. That's what makes this this this community and will make it even better. Um, and when you're a public official, uh, you have to take some of those criticisms. I wish in the future more people would run. And I say that because perhaps on the dis, uh, we could have more of a collective voice in how to evaluate the the manager. Um, I believe that we should evaluate him and those things that you're bringing up could be um set upon and we can speak with about him and we can have facts. Anonymous letters are anonymous letters. Some of you have all received them if if you're in leadership positions and um so I believe some of them are um signed and some of them are not, but when they're signed, we don't have the facts. I have not seen these letters that that some of my colleagues are talking about. Um, Mr. Kramer has a prerogative to move on or stay just like all the other managers have done. We've had many. I've been six, seven years. You've been here for a long time. And thank you. Um, and we've had so many. And the and the million-dollar question out there is why do we have such a turnover? Well, this is one. This is exactly why we have seven people in the dis different opinions, different walls, different ways of of seeing um what or how things should be run. Um I think he's in my opinion we need to allow him to do his work. There's accountability and the accountability has to be substantiated and it has to be in a form

where we sit down and evaluate based on the goals that we have set and we haven't set those goals. we um all of a sudden believe I respect your opinions. That's why they're they're valid. Um regardless how you think, but we need to sit down and talk about what where we want to take the city forward and how Mr. Kramer will take it. So I believe that we need to um think about those things and um I don't know where these two gentlemen are going to go from here since they have put it on the agenda but I wanted to um make sure that any allegation that has been thrown out there um that you Mr. Kramer also have a right to to defend yourself. you entitled due process. Um, and I'm sure that that will come later when we sit down and we evaluate you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ba. Uh it is interesting Councilwoman Montild that you would say those um I guess eloquent words but but in the past uh you've been here sitting in dis and we didn't give the uh past either city attorneys or city managers. We didn't afford them an evaluation. We let them go. No evaluation whatsoever. But now while it's there's got to be a process here. We got to evaluate them. When when do we bring up the evaluation when we're out of employees? When in the past, we've let go and it is an unfortunate thing that we've let go of of managers and city attorneys. There was no no evaluation afforded to them. None whatsoever. But now, well, we we need to go through this valuation. We need to be responsible because of the money to our taxpayers. We've paid out a bunch of money. So let's not sit here and pretend that that this will be the first time. It's happened a lot of times. It's happened before I was sitting here on the dis. So at what point do we need to continue with this? I can't I can't see myself. There's in instability in in in some departments here that have been since Mr. Kramer got here has not been able to to either fix them or whatnot. But you combine that with with our employees being I don't want to use the word disgruntled, but when you get to that point where you they don't have a voice

and they don't want to come to work. So, are we do we turn around and do we tell our employees? Well, by the way, you know, I understand that you don't like coming to work anymore, but you know, we we if we get rid of them, we could have to pay out a lot of money. That to me is mindboggling really. I thought as as council members and and mayor, we would be a little bit more empathetic to the life of the city, which is the the employees of of of of Ngalas. It is amazing that we can just make a a decision and it's not a few employees that come and complain. I've heard all types of complaints. I've heard the trust. I think all of us here have heard all type of complaints and we know who just complains to complain. But when you can see that there is trauma and stress with these employees, then that's where I think we have to draw the line. I'm not I'm not making any allegations from from Mr. Kramer, but it is the mental health of this city and you cannot put a price on that. Thank you,

Mr. Dor.

You know, it's it's it's funny how some of these council members here have no problem uh covering up for people and especially when they've committed a crime. And Mr. Mr. Kramer, you committed a crime. You violated the city charter. That's a crime. You lived outside the city, which the charter, if you read it, will say you were supposed this should have happened a long time ago. We should have fired you a long time ago for living in Rio Rico and not the city. And talking about things, allegations, really? Uh, okay. Mr. Mr. Kramer, why don't you have a city logo on your truck and you use it all over the place? Is there a GPS on your truck? Is there a GPS on your truck? Well, don't answer. That's fine. That that that that answers the question. The thing is that we put in place a long time ago that everybody should have a GPS on their vehicles that work here in the city. Are they in place? Don't have You don't have to answer either because I'm sure they're not. And you should you should be on top of that. You're not doing your job, Mr. Kramer. That's the problem. And this is not an allegation. It's It happened. It happened and it's there. And we're going to bring again this up to you with more facts if that's what you want. If you had indecency, you would resign and that'd be the end of it. But that's okay. You do whatever you please and we'll we'll do our job. the council members that want to represent the city of Nogialis and not cover for you and not hide the truth from the people, we're we're going to take a stance and the rest can do whatever they like. They want to cover for you. Well, I don't I don't I don't believe in in covering the sin of others, especially when it becomes a crime. So, you know, it's up to you. Thank you.

Does anybody have any other comments? We'll do a roll call vote. Mr. Bodia, I will terminate. Mr. Doyle, I vote. I vote to terminate. Miss Mendez, terminate. Miss uh Montil. Nay nay nay I 43

4 to three and the charter requires a five uh five to seven vote. At least mayor, it shows a vote of confidence in the the unity of the council that at least uh with the roll call. Uh thank you for bringing the roll call so the people not only here but throughout the community know who is standing up for their rights, who is protecting them and not a city manager. So thank you and next and and pretty much it's still a majority. Thank you. Okay.

Next we go to item B. Discussion, direction, possible action, consideration of options to identify and can we take a quick fivem minute break so I can consult with my partner on the matter? Yes. Okay. Five minutes. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take the five minute break. And by five minutes, I mean 20 Hi

We resume from the small break that we took. However, I move to take another executive session to get some legal advice. I have a second. All in favor? I. We're going to executive session

Heat. Heat.

Council, Ladies and gentlemen, we reconvene from executive session. Do I have second? Move to reconvene. Second. All in favor? I. Thank you. Now we have a mayor clarification on

if I could clarify and I apologize with all the discussion and stuff. has focused on the charter provision and the contractual provisions for termination with cause. And uh in talking with Justin, there is a a provision for in state statute that allows for the termination of a manager for a majority vote of the council. Uh but that would be a non-caused termination which would require the payout of the severance provisions of the contract. So assuming that the council continues to maintain its vote, the vote would be for termination and the 43 prevails and the contract would be terminated subject to the payout of the severance provisions.

Council, we're good. Is there any questions from council with regard to that? So, so then the the motion stands and the the vote to terminate is uh successful and Mr. Kramer has has been terminated from his contract. Thank you. Next, we move to discussion and direction and possible action consideration of options to identify and appoint an interim city manager. Do I have a motion? A motion be discussion first.

Motion to temporarily make a motion to temporarily u uh appoint our city attorney uh till we find till we find till we find uh till we find uh uh an interim city manager or something that the council wants to put in place on a on a emergency agenda. That fails for lack of second. I'm sorry. Second. Can I have a moment to discuss this matter with legal counsel?

Uh I think if we move in that direction, it's uh going to create a conflict of interest. You being the the city attorney and then the city manager. You know, Mr. Bhorus, we just need to finish out uh uh with a city attorney for tonight. We can't continue with a with a with a meeting without uh city manager. City manager. Well, you're talking about just tonight. Yes, tonight. And and until we put it on the agenda hopefully, mayor mayor, can you put it place it on next week on the agenda special meeting to put in go back into executive session, please? Okay,

this one will be very quick. Ladies and gentlemen, we're I move to go back into session. Get legal advice. All in favor? All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going back to second session. You're Are you going to make

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

All right, mayor. There's a motion and a second on the table to appoint myself as the interim manager. There's a question with regard to whether that would create a a conflict and in a short very short interim period that that would not create a con conflict. There are other municipalities in Arizona that have manager slash attorney as the same individual. Um, but it would be requested that that be a very short uh period of time and we'd reconvene a special council meeting next Tuesday uh

10 a.m. at 10:00 a.m. to have that further discussion and I'll bring recommendations to the council for that process. So, but you can move forward with the uh with the motion. Any discussion? All in favor 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday. We'll send out a formal notice to everybody. All All in favor? I oppose. Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Estus. We go. We go to item B. Discussion and direction. No,

no, he still wants discussion about it. Discussion and direction. direction to the city attorney office to provide monthly general status reports to the city council on litigation involving the city consisting consistent with attorney client privileges and confidentiality requirements. Mr. I was going to ask you I didn't mean to pull or or

Oh yeah, just forformational purposes items uh and B and D are move because they were with regard to Mr. Kramer. Uh so those are being uh removed as as being moved. So we go on for the public. So yes public uh and for bringing that up. So now we go to item E. Mh.

Yeah. Again uh mayor I I place this more kind of a sense of direction uh for for legal uh to keep us informed on any litigation going uh on in the city of Mgalis. Uh again, consistent with attorney client privilege and confidentially requirements. Uh just a more of a report uh uh from legal to let us know, you know, if if it's if it's something that we need to know that's important, at least keep us informed. Absolutely, Council Member Doyle. Uh and in fact, I have a report for you. Okay.

Um Laura Laura has these uh up to date. Uh, and if there's ever any questions or concerns, you you know, my door is always open. You all have my uh my cell phone number. You're welcome to call me at any time. But yeah, I will uh and I've talked to Laura today about it uh about making sure that we we do a monthly email to council with with the updated uh status with regard to the the any claims or litigation or anything so that you know what's going on. Um, Mr.

Trustes, um, I want to just make it clear that, um, I know that those reports were done in the past and I know that no one's asked you to do them. So, thank you. But, uh, is that okay? Cuz I know in the past when they were done, they were being shared around because they're not confidential. I I get that part. Um, so there's no problems there if if they're sent to us and they're they're shared, you know, within departments, within employees, within people in the public and and and just so that we can just uh be, you know, careful uh about the people that are named in those lawsuits. I know it's it it's not confidential, but just the fact that it's

Well, and I guess that's raises a good question because if if I give a report that provides my position and and my thoughts on the case, then those would be attorney client privilege reports. If you're asking for just basic status reports of you know this case was filed on this date you know there was a motion on this date this is the current status you know the next motion or the next you know scheduling item for that case is this date then those yeah that that would be you know public information because it's just providing but if you want a a status or a a an opinion or recommendation then I would keep those as two separate items. So if council wants, you know, for example, a a status update like what's on these reports, um, you know, it says claim was submitted to the risk pool on this date, claim being investigated, different things like that that are non, you know, legal opinions and and stuff, then absolutely that that's public record. Um, but if it says, you know, claim submitted and the attorney thinks that this is a a bogus claim or there there's these issues with the claim and it provides legal opinions, then those would be attorney client. So, what I would do is if that were going to be the case and there was going to be something on there, I would put on the report in the bold at the top like I do with memos and stuff, attorney client privilege and then that is not to be shared uh with the general public because it is privilege attorney client.

I just find it easier to go to your office and ask, you know, but it's okay. I mean, you're the attorney. You could do what you need to do. Thanks. Yeah, I would prefer those not to get out of your office and and basically, you know, you could mention us there's exclaims uh uh with privileges and and we wouldn't run the risk of them getting out to the public or you know something that integrity is. Thank you.

So yeah, absolutely. What we can do is I I can provide you with the the basic status updates which just you know provide the department, the date it was open, the claimant number, uh incident date, description, uh claim amount, the basic information. And then if you have specific questions with regard to those then I would just ask you to come in and and talk to me or call me uh and we can have those so we we can keep that information confidential. Thank you. Uh so this is just directions right?

I yes we don't need to take a I'm good with the direction. Thank you. We move to item F. discussion possible action consideration of any kind support for the cortais committee of Ngalas Arizona for the festa miles event to be held on May 2nd 2026 do any discussion was there any amount on this one Uh, I'm sorry.

Requests two porta portable light generators, portable restrooms, large trash, five officers for security. It doesn't have an amount. So, I would just request that the that the motion be that you know in in with a maximum contribution amount of $1,000 and I will look to see what what the the values are uh and make sure that it doesn't go over that. I have Yeah, this event is free of charge. So, all the events they're free of charge. We don't put a a a value on these. Go ahead.

Okay. Because let me talk. No, go ahead. Sorry. I maybe your mic maybe it'll short circuit the conversation. Miguel just reminded me this is a city sponsored event. So the ENIN contribution doesn't apply because it is a city sponsored event. So the city's providing its own support for its own event. Thank you Miguel for bringing that up. Good point. Then it says on the letter supported for of the city. Okay. So with that said, all in favor?

I. All oppose. Motion passes. G. discussion possible action consideration of inind support not to exceed $1,000 for CO estre movement for the NOA's half marathon and health fair event to be held on April 25th 2026 any discussion yes sir

yes mayor I'm thinking I know that this was done uh whoever placed the $1,000 limit was probably over five years ago because I wasn't here at the time. Uh things have cons gone up considerably uh as far as and and I think that on the next agenda item we should put at least 1,500 uh to be the the the measuring stick for inind service. 1,000 really is something from the past. Uh I don't know unless some other councilman wants to raise it up more that's fine with me but at least 1500 I think should be the the the medium point or

is it in blueprint then that it's a thousand it is an order that was by council previous order. So the order is current and active until it's been changed. So we can have that discussion with regard to uh when we get to item 13 for future agenda items if you want to bring that up. I I'd like uh for well when we get to future agenda.

Thank you. Any more discussion? That's it. Uh mo do I have a motion? Excuse me. I had a motion and second. All in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. H. Discussion and possible action consideration of any kind support not to exceed $1,000 for the Calabasas Alliance. Alliance Calabasas 5013C nonprofit for the Echo Fiesta 2026 event to be held on April 18, 2026. Motion. Second.

Second. Any discussion? All in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. I discussion possible action consideration of inind support not to exceed $1,000 for Santa Cruz advocates for the art mingus project for the Mingus Jazz Festival event to be held on April 18th, 2026. Second. Any discussion? Go ahead, Mr. Do

Mayor. I know we're voting for what it's the way it's written, and I'd like a legal opinion. Is this going to be based on if in case we should pass to raise the ceiling on that to 1500? Will that automatically kick in for these requests up to 1500? Uh, I'd like to know now. Unless I think I'm not sure we could put it back in the because the way it's written it says not to exceed a thousand and uh you know if we raise if we should raise it on the next meeting which could be Tuesday when we have the next meeting u will it automatically bring it up to 1500? Not automatically not to exceed 15. We would have to put it not automatically, but we could have

an item. We could we could add these as an additional item to increase or we we could have a we could have an agenda item to provide for the increase to apply to those items that were approved at the last council meeting. If that is which is tonight, right? Yes. So, if if that's what council wants to do, assuming we go forward and this is on the next agenda and council approves an increase, then we can also have an another agenda item after that to have council vote to have that increase apply to these tonight. Yes. Thank you, Leo, for clarifying that. Thank you. Thank you, mayor.

Thank you. So, with that said, all in favor? I. All oppose. Motion passes. Jay. update and discussion from city attorney on status of the forensic audit. Yes. If we could have Justin come up and Mr. City attorney. No. Uh so no, I'm just kidding.

I'm gonna get yelled at tomorrow. Uh so we've we've had a number of discussions over the past year with regard to the the an audit that was done by an outside agency whether it's considered a forensic audit or not with regard to concerns with you know practices within the city things that may or may not have been done that have caused loss of revenue or money or improprieties and the such. Um and the the issue and one of the reasons why the the workday uh solution was presented and approved by council is that the the city's current uh program doesn't provide tracking. So the the review can go through and and it can say that yes, there there are processes and procedures that weren't being adhered to, but it doesn't identify specifics as to who may have done it, when it may have happened. nothing that would be sufficient to be able to go back and say, "Okay, employee X or employee Y, you did this on this date." Um, so you know and I know the the hope is is you know and I can assure council that if information comes to light that somebody did something improper or illegal that that will be uh investigated in detail and you know dealt with accordingly. But just in a general sense with regard to what was looked into the the areas that were looked into that there as of today's date there there isn't a specific individual a specific instance

that can be pointed to that says this happened on this date and this cost x amount of dollars and loss and things. So, but what it what it did do is it allowed us allowed the city to see that there are processes and procedures and things that need to be corrected and fixed and updated so that we can have that accountability and that's what workday will do. It it will track everything. So, if you go in and you do something, it will allow that. Is that to say that it that will solve every potential uh problem if somebody wants to try to do something improper? No. But it it limits that. Uh and the the goal is and the hope is is that we we create a uh an environment and of accountability and that we you know make sure that the employees understand what their what their job duties are, what their what's expected. Um you know so with regard to that because I know that the issue has been asked about a number of times. So, I just wanted to be able to to let council know that there isn't a specific instance of this happened on June 1st of 2021 and this is what happened. Uh because that the the city systems don't have that type of information. But what we do know is that we can't track that. So we need to have a system in place to where that information is trackable, traceable and accountable

to have a better understanding. It's it's kind of something that we need for the time being uh be on top of uh like have maybe uh with whoever we get as an interim kind of let them know to be uh visually on top of those uh of those areas that that might be in question. uh and and at the same time if we can do that then uh we can either uh postpone or or table uh the the forensics till a future date because if the program is going to be coming into effect a few months down the road. There's no sense in spending uh a lot of money for it when when if the program is going to be pretty thorough on on being able to pick up on things and uh it might save the city uh those audits that that uh that that are needed just to get the general audits that we get and and that's that's what I'm I'm understanding what you're saying. Is that is that am I am I getting that correct? What you

Yes. And if there if there does come to light specific issues that need to have a detailed investigation, then that will be done at that time. Okay. Anyway, I think the the the item that we're referring to was tabled in the last session, so we can just leave it table in case we ever need to bring it up again. Yes. If there's no Yeah. We don't have each other. Just Okay. Updated discussion. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody have any other comment? Okay, we move on to K. discussion and possible action. $50,000 fee waiver requested from the city of Ngalas related to Baffford Senior Apartments, a 50 unit construction project of affordable senior independent living community located at 786 East Baffford, Ngalas, Arizona 85621. the project through Chicago. Do I have a motion? Any discussion? Thank you. All in favor?

I I All oppose. Motion passes. Yes. Thank you. That's my dirty. Thank you for bringing this to the community. Aren't you glad you waited around for that? Oh, discussion and possible action. $50,000 permit and building waiver request from the city of Ngalas related to Montasuma senior apartments projects argenta move second discussion no

go ahead misses Mr. addresses is not this might not be a very smart question but won't be the first time. Um so do we have um a policy allowing us to wave uh permit and building fees for businesses that are for profit? I just want to make sure that I don't know if we have a specific policy with regard to that. Okay.

So I can't answer that question for you tonight. I was just wondering because I know that um I don't know maybe Justin I don't know I just I I don't feel comfortable um you know I just want to make sure because I know there's a comprehensive schedule of fees and charges. So I just want to make sure that it's okay if we wave because I know that this uh Montasuna is for profit. So I just want to make sure that we're okay with it. Um, I mean that's great and she's here. She's been patient with us. Um, but I just want to make sure because I know that uh some are not for profit.

I mean some are for profit and yet we wave fees. So I just want to make sure and I can actually answer that one.

Okay, great. Thank you. because I I forgot this one is for it's for an application to the state for the uh the the lowincome housing tax credits which requires and they get they get extra points if the municipality participates and supports and so that is allowed uh Chuco's portacasa has a similar project that they got approved for in one of the municipalities that I work with uh so with that under that program. No, it doesn't matter if they're a a a nonprofit program or a for-profit. It's a acknowledgement of of the support for what is to be a a low-income housing tax credit project specifically.

Go ahead. Uh Vice Mayor, could that be under the incentive policy, city incentives, you know, to bring businesses to Nollas? I would have to look at what the city's in specific incentive policy is, but with regard to the low-income housing tax credits, it allows for municipal uh participation and support. And specifically, they that's one of the things they look for is that the municipality waves certain fees and and participates to show that the the municipality is in support of that. And it gives them more points when they go to submit their project. It's all based off of a point system and so they get a certain number of points for the uh the contributions from the municipality.

Also, mayor, go ahead. Do you want to talk about this? You want me to just mention that there's an invite? Yeah, go ahead. I think it's a great idea to let people know. Meet me to it. Thank you. Yeah.

The green light. Good afternoon uh city council and Mr. Mayor and um and community and residents. So I am Ivon Delgado with Allied Argenta. If I may before I discuss this, one thing that I did want to point out and thank you Mr. Estus for explaining that on the low-income housing tax credits. Uh regardless of whether it's a for-profit or a nonprofit developer, every project needs to be forprofit. in order to bring in the tax credits. So, and that's the only way that you can actually attract the investor to come and invest in that. And it is critical for all of these projects for there to be comm municipality support. Otherwise, there's no way that we can compete with any of the Phoenix and Tucson projects. Um, but I would like to take this opportunity to invite everyone from council as well as the residents to participate in a visioning session that we will be having on Monday, March 9th at 6:00 p.m. Ngalis Community Development will be providing us with like some space. So, if any of you would like to partake on some of those discussions and see what we're planning to do in and and we're actually combining low-income housing tax credits as well as historic tax credits. So, we're we're going through all of that process. I do want to thank you for your support. Um we we won't be able to move this forward without the city and and the county as well as other residents, but I do want to invite everyone to attend. I'll leave a flyer outside and um so I'm hoping that I'll get to see you there. Thank you.

Ian, you got a question.

You want to This project is uh being funded by the Arizona Department of Housing. Right. So, um, we, yes, this project is going, we're requesting, uh, funding through the Arizona Department of Housing because they're the ones that get the low-income housing tax credits for all of the state projects. In addition to that, we'll be working with the parks um, department as well to attract the historic tax credits. Once we get the allocation of low-income housing tax credits, that's when we also get lenders and investors and approach the city to say, "Okay, we got the money. Now, we need to have all of our financing commitments, but our original application goes to the Arizona Department of Housing." And so the is the Arizona Department of Housing going to require you to allocate a couple of apartments on a project base?

That is part of the um request right now.

So in that in that in that part it's going to be the HUD, right? US Department of Housing and and Urban Development, right? Instead of the Arizona Department of Housing. So the US department so for the vouchers we would be coordinating it through the city and we would be assisting with that application and working with the director um and ensuring that we can go through that process. So right now it's just a commitment until we get the financing we won't be putting any official request if that makes any sense. And just to clarify, I don't think the city has the authority to to uh all lot uh vouchers uh for uh project based vouchers got to go through HUD.

Well, it's it's through the municipality is what we've been informed and since Nogalis coordinates, it would have to be through the Ngalas Housing Authority. Um,

we can look into those details when we get to that point as, you know, vice vice mayor is very familiar with that uh program having run it for so many years. But we we can definitely uh circle back and and have that discussion and figure out what needs to be done uh if you guys are successful in getting the award. and and uh Councilman Bahorquez, if you have time to meet anytime like this week, next week, I would love to sit down with you. We've worked with some of the attorneys that works with HUD directly to get more insight cuz I know that it has been a little slim. There's more extensive requirements just because federal funds have been cut and so there's restrictions. But I' I'd love to be able to discuss it further and and engage them in that conversation as well.

Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And and thank you, Mr. You had something else?

Uh, no, it's just that I'm I'm kind of looking ahead if if we get those apartments built there. uh uh it would really bring some life to the downtown area, especially uh a building like the old Monteuma that used to thrive with a cattle business and everybody would come and make their deals there. Uh I mean, I guess there's not many old-timers that remember those days. Uh I remember it because I was pretty young when my dad would take me by the hand and make his cattle deals there. Uh and and uh there was a lot of folks uh Wingfield and back then Young Fletcher which Bazante that's the the older Mr. Richard Fletcher but but a lot of cattle deals were done there and and city would thrive and it's we need to bring life to that area. So I'm all for supporting uh this venture. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank Thank you. And you know the proposal is to get 15 uh apartments under the HUD, right? Yes. We're hoping that's Thank you. which would help the community and you know that went into the senior building of uh you know all those those are great projects for the community. Thank you. Thank you. With that said um all those in favor I. Those opposed. Motion passes.

Mayor, if I could for my first official act as interim city manager, um, sorry, could we bump item 11 C up to right now so Mr. Pierce doesn't have to sit through an excruciating executive session that he's not needed for? In business, we call that a point of personal privilege, right? She must have a pull with him. Would that be? Would that be okay? Would that be okay, council? As much as Go ahead,

love to have him sit through the next blast. I got to tell you, um, this was not a meeting that I was expecting. So, um, especially now with Mr. Estus in this in this role. But what what we wanted to do so if we could get some clarification. Am I technically your boss now?

Have to think through that one. Um I have some I as you know it's now it's been two years since we've been uh I can't believe two years it's gone by uh since we've been doing doing this on on a contract basis. I wanted to give you some some an update. We, you know, during that time, we've never up we've never upped the flat fee. The $15,000 a month is what it's been. And um worked worked well the first year. The second year, uh you costs have gone up. I mean, that's no surprise. Um and I wanted to show you our you a report and I'm going to I'll give a copy of this to you guys of the work. uh it's not a description of each of each, you know, line item, but it does show the time and it shows a it I think there's like 10 different lawyers just within this fiscal year that have touched some sort of an item. And that's one of the things when we first started this, I I think I explained one of the benefits is you get a you get more than a full legal department. I mean, it's not just one lawyer or two lawyers and we got we got people that touched a whole different a bunch of different areas of the law and were able to do that. I mean, tonight we've got Trish here to talk to you about the a project. Obviously, Joe, uh we've got land use folks. Um we got employment law folks and and we're able to put all those resources to work for you without you hiring a full a full, you know, slate of lawyers, which would be completely cost prohibitive, of course. Um so, with that, if I I'll share with you and and give each one of you a copy of this real quick. This is just this fiscal year.

Fiscal year, not calendar year. I think I have an accident. So, most of this won't matter to you. Um, it just it shows all the, you know, the different entries of time. What what matters is really the last the last two pages. Um what it'll show you is that on the second to last page uh the the grand total labor hours on the fiscal year is is about 730 almost 735 hours of time translated to what our our nor like the discounted hourly rate that we give to cities and towns you know the risk pool and others was it something I said I'm just kidding they're like they are not interested in this part I I

Thank you. I I I spent a lot of time putting this together. If anyone else I'm proud of this.

I mean, I am proud of this. No, I actually am proud of this. What I'm proud of with this is, and one of the reasons we do the flat fee with you guys is you don't have to worry about, you know, like three lawyers in a meeting, like the the the exorbitant costs that can come from that. Um, and so we try to, you know, just, you know, average that out over time. And on that second to last page, you'll see that if if we were billing you by the hour like we would, you know, normal like a an attorney would do on the year so far, eight months of the fiscal year, we would have build you $215,000 average of 26,875 a month. We've actually only build 171 on an average of 21412. Now you're like, wait, I thought it was 15,000. It is, but you remember a year ago there was a request for some additional on-site time.

And so what we did was we looked at, you know, what that would cost us to do that. I mean, just really kind of almost a break even. It was $1,900 uh uh per time. And so we've been doing that and we do that, you know, two or three times a month. So this is what it averages out to about 21. But again, if we were billing by the hour, it would be it would be upwards of 27. So again, doing the math in 8 months time that's you about 43,700 that we're over our budget, not you guys. You've saved $43,700 if we continue this through the through the end of the fiscal year. That's what the final the last page shows is we we'll be over budget about $65,550 in terms of what what we're trying to you know in terms of our billable rate to try to be uh in line with. And so, um, what we're proposing is not to make up that whole difference. I mean, that's that's why we do a flat fee. It's not it's not to like, okay, well, you know, you're way over this, so cut us a check for this. That's not what a flat fee is. What we're simply asking, though, is just a a a minor adjustment to the to the uh to the monthly instead of 15. If we can bump that to 20, what it does is it still puts us, I'll say, in the hole, for lack of a better term. It puts us over budget about $50,000 on the year. But that's okay. Like that that's we can absorb that. It's why we do what we do. We partner with you guys to be able to do that. Um and then, you know, we'll just continue to to to monitor it over time. Now, had I known we were going to be doing this tonight, I might have might have put some more into that. But to me, if you look at these numbers and what you're going to see at the very end, what I put at the very end, I we work with a lot of cities that have some in-house departments and we know what the budgets were here as well before. Um, I know of a municipality right now that's that's hiring for an in-house and they're about about they're also a border community about the same population and and they're advertising

it at $180,000 salary. Now, when you add the you know the the benefits and everything that go Yeah. ies. Um that on top of that now if you if you hire a deputy at at you know 120 or you know whatever one and then the overhead I West law alone Westlaw is the legal database that you have to have if you're I mean you have either Weslaw or Lexus you got to have that for government rate they are charging a um $2,000 a month per user. So, if you had a couple of users, um, you're you're looking at $40,000 of overhead just in in Weslaw. I can tell you our firm, we pay well over $100,000 a year because we have a lot more users and but we also because because we have private clients and others, we can absorb that and have the highest level of West Law access to include all of the new AI tools and everything associated with that. So, we can we can give a level of service that really truly an in-house department wouldn't be able to do anyway, at least a smaller one. But if you if you run those numbers, just your overhead and and an an assistant city attorney and in-house with the ER, I mean, you're looking at I I conserve it 470. By the way, I I am familiar with city attorney offices with one to two city attorneys where their budgets are over half a million. And because you still also are going to end up There's going to be areas of expertise you need that you don't have in-house that you're going to still have to hire. We do work for a lot of cities and towns that have their own in-house department. Huge ones. City of Phoenix, they've got, you know, dozens and dozens of lawyers and they still will hire us on projects on occasion say, "Hey, can you take this for us? We don't have the ability to handle this in house." So, um, when you take all of that into account, I remember two years ago when we talked through this, it's it

has come to fruition for sure. you can honestly tell your constituents, you've saved the city hundreds of thousands of dollars by the by what you've been able to do with us. And in addition to that, and I mean, I know that this sounds like I'm I'm doing this a little bit, but I I think that you you're getting a level of expertise and competency that that exceeds any anywhere else. And and I say that as probably the weakest link in our in our group. uh our we have a team now when I came two years ago. I mean we've even added uh we just added a a a superior court judge that just you know retired from the superior court and um we've got we our bench of lawyers I think we're pushing up on like 300 years of combined experience in municipal law alone. Um and I say I'm the weakest link. It's I I think I've done a great job of surrounding myself with really good talent and um and it's it's something we're definitely very proud of. But we we're asking you to just again just the the idea with the flat fee is not for us to get rich off of it by by having a big number that we don't deserve. And it's also we don't want it to be where where we are doing so much work on it that that we're not able to, you know, cover our our overhead as we need to. And so that's that's what I'm asking is just a a small bump to be able to account for that. The other bump um Oh, I didn't give you this. So this is um this is this is identical. I think you remember from last time our our flat fee contracts. I don't like legal ease. It's it's a very simple. You can read it in two minutes. This is identical. If you want to just pass these around even a councilman even a councilman. That's why we do it that way. So let's make sure everybody it's it's identical to last

time. There nothing in there different other than the number in instead of 15 it's 20. And when you when we a year ago when you guys had that uh when we added that $1,900 a time uh extra deal. Um I need to bump that to 25 because we're I'm finding out that that when we do those days, it's it's hard for us to to to break even with because frankly I got to pay this guy's mileage. I got to pay all the hotel nights sometimes when these things go late. Um, so again, it's it's a modest bump and and even on this on this sheet, I showed you that even with even with that bump, what it what the annual average uh cost for the legal department uh compared to what it would be if you had an in-house department is still just it's significantly less. So, I'm h Mr. Mayor, I'm happy to answer any questions if anybody has questions about it. Um, this is truly intended to even us out to try to get us to a spot where we're where we're closer in line to the work that's being required.

Mr. Do, turn on your mic, please. I I have a couple of questions and u I think the I'll go with the first one that that jumps at at uh uh my eyes and and u the city may terminate this representation at any time subject to Pierce Coleman's obligations under the rules of professional conduct and the approval of the court if a matter is in litigation. Can you kind of shed a little more light on that?

Yeah. So, let's say we are and we haven't had this yet, so it's more theoretical than actual, but let's say let's say we're defending you in a lawsuit right now. That's not part of the risk pool. That's different, of course. Let's say we're defending you in a lawsuit and um and trial is it's in three weeks and we're preparing for trial and then council says, "You know what? We're done with these guys." Because you're allowed to do that. You could you could fire us at any time. What we would have to do is we would have to go to the court and say, "Hey, court, they they don't want us here anymore." The court could very well say, "Not too bad. We're right up on trial. You're still you're representing them." So, we would have professional responsibilities to where you might So, you could fire us, but we might have to say, "Hey, but we have to finish this thing for you because the court's going to require it."

Thank you for that. So, a good It's a good thing. It is, but it's truly more theoretical. I've not really seen that happen. The other the other u uh one that jumped at me uh is uh no advice regarding this uh the agreement, right? Pierce Coleman is not acting as the city's council with respect to this agreement. Uh kind of shed a little light on that.

Yeah. And we and this is in the last one too. have we have to put that in in these simply because it would be a conflict for me to advise you on the on this contract in the sense of like hey council member you should really do this you know because it's like because it obviously benefits our firm but so so we can't give you legal advice on the contract. We can certainly answer the questions just like you just asked, but I can't provide you legal advice, direction on it. Yeah. And and certainly if you guys felt like, oh, you know, we really need somebody else to take a look at this for us, you could you could totally do that.

Um it's again why I try to keep it really simple though is is to to make it easy for you. I I I don't know uh uh why Israel and China are there. Yeah, those are state law requirements as well. I I know um because of the contract amount uh state law uh the legislature I don't know 10 years ago maybe yeah 10 or 15

put a put a provision in state law that said any any contract with with a government entity has to affirm that we will not boycott Israel or that we will um or that we will employ the uh forced labor of ethnic URS in the People's Republic of China and I can affirm to all to this council today that we are doing neither of those two things. Yeah, that second one is more recent. That one came out a couple years ago.

Yeah, that one came out more more recent. It's truly just a state law requirement in contracts. That's it. But to piggy back off of something that Justin had had mentioned earlier and you know he's not aware of this but um as an example there is a recent municipality that went inhouse with their law department with three attorneys and one support staff with a budget of $1.5 million is what it is costing them to run that legal department inhouse with four employees. Uh

I know which one you're talking about and they originally budgeted way less. They didn't think it was going to be that and it ended ballooning. And I also have a very good friend of mine who was the first in-house uh attorney for another municipality and they had budgeted about the same 1.5 and within a year because they uh didn't account for a number of things they were up to I think 2.7 uh with regard to theirs and they had uh I think four four at four civil attorneys and two prosecutors for that 2.7. Uh so I think you know we we do provide a a good service for a very reasonable rate and you get the you know a significant number not just me and that's what I like to tell my clients is this isn't just you know Joe as a as a city attorney although I may be here on a more regular basis and be the face of the firm but you know Miguel can attest that we have a number of election law experts in the firm that have helped Miguel with all of the stuff that he's had to do with with the elections for this year. Uh, you know, we have uh an attorney now who is uh an HR or a former HR director who has been helping out with uh with our HR department here in getting things uh better organized and and in place and and things like that. So, those are some of the benefits that you get with uh with working with us that you just would never get with any other firm or you know, and I've served as an in-house attorney by myself. I was a city attorney for City of Page. I was there by myself.

Didn't have anyone else uh to to call out to or or tap, you know, tap out. You guys come up. Although Justin didn't answer my text this evening when I asked to tap out during the council meeting and have him come up. Um, but it it is such a for for me, for an attorney's perspective, it's so great to have that depth, to have that ability to just send out a text or an email to the group and say, "Look, we we've got this issue going on that could impact a number of different municipalities, especially when it comes to legislative changes and things that are going on with the legislature. um you know so it it does provide a a substantial uh benefit and service to the city. We try to do that for all our clients. Uh an example of that is we recently produced and provided and Miguel will be sending that out uh to council if he hasn't already a very detailed memo with regard to you know election issues and things this year uh that that that took a substantial amount of time to prepare but because that is spread out over the the 24 municipalities that that we represent as the city and town attorneys that that equates to a a very short, you know, so if they spent 10 hours doing it, then it gets build out for like maybe 20 minutes or 30 minutes for each client so that that cost isn't absorbed by one client.

Final question. Go ahead.

And and I want to say that I like the tag team effect that you guys uh have. uh you respond real quick to be victorious in your bout. So uh no I you you know like you said you have so much legal uh experience and knowledge that it's great to be represented with so many different fields of of expertise that you offer. Uh but my my my actual question is just for the record uh does this mean that I know it says at will there does that mean like two three months or whatever time down the road if the city of Ngala is or the majority of the city council says you know uh we've enjoyed your services thank you so much we want to go in a different direction and and it's over

yeah will there's no that very different from the contract you looked at tonight. There is no severance provision in our uh in our agreement. You you we we you can end it at any time. Again, just subject to the professional responsibility requirements that we have now. No, no, no. I'm just asking for the record. I mean, you your your firm you guys are very enticing. I mean, uh, I don't think maybe one of us might might might not, uh, might be off in a different direction, but I don't think the the majority of the council is going to is going to go in that direction. If you want to make that motion tonight, Councilman Doyle, if Yeah, I was going to say, man, we you guys will be disappointed.

No, we're enjoying the expertise we get.

Oh, and I I I can tell you I've me and we love working with you guys and and we, you know, Yeah. the experience. I always just like to ask to be for the record. No, you're that's the thing about uh you know lawyer services generally is you're you're you never you're never going to be tied into in fact one of the u one of the provisions in here even has the refund you know because you pay a now for you guys it wouldn't really matter because you actually pay it at the end of the month but let's say you paid it let's say you paid it at the beginning of the month and then two days in you said hey we're going to go a different direction well you know we're not going to keep that whole month of of of pay, you know, so we would, you know, we would turn that. Now, obviously, we would take a look at the whole. So, but the point is you you're you're not locked into anything with us. Our our view of it is we we want you to feel locked in because you love

the service you get with us that that you would that you would never want something different. There you go. If you do, you know, hey, you got it. But you know what, Justin? Um, I think it took us it took us a while. Uh, it took us it took us a while.

That's only one. I I think what what at the beginning I think all of us because we we we were used to the attorney you know uh from Monday to Fridays uh 825 and I think that the biggest concern was that you weren't here every day but we got accustom or we got or actually what we realized is that you're an email or you're a phone call away or text message away. We're still covered.

And we're still covered. And there's there hasn't been any any uh I think the most that Mr. Ess's has taken to answer me has been four months, but that's okay. Just kid. No, he's pretty fast. He's pretty fast in and answering getting back, you know, or he'll send me a text that he's he's um he's uh he's in a meeting or something. But I'll admit that it it it took us it took us a little bit of of getting accustomed. And I don't think we can ever really go back to the traditional um uh you know

no I that's been our experience in in other places where where we've come in for an in-house where you know the first few months it's like you know yeah it's a new way of doing it but then you know after some time and you realize that yeah this works really well and again saves you and something for you know you're elected officials you get to tell your constituencies that like hey we're We're being very mindful of the taxpayer money by by not having a full legal department where that would suck up a lot more of your of your taxpayers resources. So yeah, happy to answer any more questions. And

my only question is you know we had three minutes basic basically it's you know I you know I thought this was coming when I saw saw it in the agenda. Um, we're having a meeting on Tuesday. Do you need an answer today or can we think about it and I mean, well, the reason we kind of just absorb it and look at the numbers. The Well, and and yeah, and I you I made them pretty simple for you there. The issue for us is we're

we're headed in the in the wrong direction financially for us. like we can't continue to to to go that path.

Um, and it's and we're not, like I said, we're not asking you to like double the amount. It's it's a very modest increase. It would be it would be very helpful to us because I think again we've teamed and partnered with you guys in good faith. Uh, and we're not asking you to make up the full difference, you know, where where, you know, I think, you know, we could say, hey, you know, look, we're getting crushed here. But what I'm looking at is going, you know what, if we just do a modest increase, we can we can manage that and continue to manage that with you. And again, we love working with you. So if it was if we didn't like working with you, just tell us. Do I have a motion? Yeah. And a second. Second. Second.

All in favor? I. All oppose. Thank you, sir. I do appreciate that. We love working with you. I'm going to get on the road. Okay. Thank you. Now, thank you for coming over. All right. I move to move into executive session so Mr. Pierce can go sleep or drive. That's right. All those in favor? Do I have a second? Second to a motion to go. Okay. All in favor? I oppose. We go to executive session.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat.

from executive session. Um number 11, a discussion and possible action consideration of the mayor and council of the appointed appointment of Robert Gillan as the city magistry judge and approval of an employment contract. Mayor second.

Yes, I make that motion to approve. Make a second. Yeah, if you want. Well, I can put on the the record what the the terms the the amended terms of the contract would be. The the the salary increase from 115 to 130. Uh annual uh 3%

3% increases on an annual basis and the uh the payout of current PTO balances uh or now whenever. So, Yeah, May, right? Yeah, the new contract will be effective May, but we'll go ahead and uh finalize that and and get it signed and assume you guys haven't voted yet, but okay. Once you vote, that's it. Any other comments? All in favor?

All right. Oppose. Motion passes. Uh beat It was worth waiting around. Thank you for hanging in there. B. Discussion and possible action approving the community investment agreement between Santa Cruz County, the town of Patagonia, South 32 Mosa, Inc. and the city of Ngalas. Motion to approve. Uh, mayor. Second.

Second. And that is with this motion to approve with with the the with the motion to approve with the agreement agreeing of the additional uh early action items that we propose. Yes. Correct. That's correct. Correct. Yes. Thank you. Did you get a second on it? Second. There you go. Okay. All in favor? I oppose. Motion passes.

Mayor's council report of recurrent events. Mr. Bonia. Um this past Wednesday uh we had the University of Defense. Uh we had uh 55 students which represented 55 different countries. uh Councilwoman Parada and and uh uh pretty much uh helped me out a lot for that event and uh we gave them a tour of of of Ngalas and we had a semi- formal dinner at the BFW. It's the third year that the city of Ngalas host this event. Thank you, Mr. Door. I'm just going to pass right now. Thank you,

Mendes. No. Um uh just to let you know we are already starting with the Fiesta Deayu event which is going to be May the 2nd and I'll keep you posted on everything we're we're going to do. Thank you. Vice Mayor.

Okay. And uh I'm just going to cut it short and go to what we got Friday. Hopefully everybody attends and uh celebrate the 250th uh uh celebration of America. We'll be here in front of Cordova Park at 9:00 a.m. and there'll be a small ceremony uh from 9 to 9:45 or so and then at 10:00 I think that's when the museum officially opens. So, uh you know, thank you Miss uh Montiel for putting it together and the whole committee, Mr. Mr. Guard. What else was it here? Okay. But from the Okay, thanks everybody. Um, so that's all I've got. Uh, then we'll go to future agenda items. Uh, yes, Mayor. Uh I wanted to place on on the next session uh that uh that we raised uh the 1,000 limit to 1500 uh as a ceiling. Uh and that's that's all I have.

Miss, no. I I would like to take the opportunity of saying that I'm not going to be available Friday, but the cultural arts committee is going to have two tables with finger foods and a huge cake. Thank you. U best of luck.

Mr. Estes if you could just please um I would like a opinion from the general attorney general on um the gift of uh public funds. What is her opinion? I know you've given us your opinion, but I would like a written opinion from uh Attorney General Mace on how um incind can be given out and how it cannot be given out and just so that we can have her opinion in writing. Thank you,

Miss Pa. Vice Mayor. Okay. And then basically on on Mr. Doyle's addition is if that does happen, you know, we would also look into switching the three approved items or that there would be the discussion any kind increase and then a second agenda item for approval of if that does pass for that to be applied to those items that were

approved today. Yes. Thank you. That's all I've got. Uh, basically we've agreed to meet here Tuesday at 10 10:00 a.m. Thank you. Uh, move to adjourn this meeting. All in favor? I oppose. Media adjourn. Good night or good morning. Almost still good night. The stugen knights.