City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. This is the City of Newburgh City Council work session. The date is May 21st, 2026, and the time is 6.06 p.m. On Tuesday night's City Council meeting, we'll be presenting a key to the city in honor of Harold Shirley. Moving on to the engineering items, item number two is a contract with CT mail for engineering services for an engineering assessment update on the Washington Lake Dam. The background on this item is the last engineering assessment that was completed on the Washington Lake Dam was completed in 2017. new york state dec requires an engineering assessment to be conducted on intermediate class b hazard dams every 10 years and we're due for an update on the engineering assessment so we'll be contracting with ct mail for that work in the amount of 25 000 this is budgeted for in the 2026 engineering department engineering department's budget any questions or comments councilmember shakur yes Yes, in this instance when they do it, we don't have to do it again for another 10 years.

Are there other dams that are coming close to that age, like 10 years?

Yes, the Silver Stream Dam, which is the one we are reconstructing right now, is currently a project to reconstruct the spillway on Brown's Pond, or Silver Stream Dam, it goes by either name. That engineering assessment, I believe, is due in 2028. There's a chance that the DEC would exempt it because we are currently doing a project there, and that project did contemplate an engineering assessment for that spillway but those are the only two dams that are intermediate or high hazard okay thank you any other questions or comments moving on to item number three This is a contract with Arcadis for the final design of the south interceptor sewer improvements project. This is phase five or also known as the last project on the required list for the schedule compliance for the long term CSO control plan. this contract is in the amount of 496 thousand three hundred dollars and this is for the final design and the creation of bid documents for the city to go out to construction for the south interceptor sewer project the council may recall this project involves the complete replacement of the south interceptor sewer which is located on the south portion of the city by the quisea creek in the area generally south of Liberty Street, all the way to where the north interceptor ended on Water Street near the CSX tracks. So this funding will be derived from financing that the city is borrowing from the New York State Environmental Facilities Corporation. The financing, all the documents are in place. The city issued a bond resolution previously. This contract is the last thing we need to do to finally close on financing for short term with New York State EFC. Any questions or comments? Council Member Monteverde.

Thank you. So is this going to be anywhere near that area where we had the sewer collapse at the end of Liberty Street?

It is on the opposite side of the tracks from that area. So it would be on the south side of the railroad tracks from that area.

Great. Thank you.

Any other questions or comments?

When does the construction start now that we got this financing?

So this contract will allow the design to take place. We previously did a planning document and a feasibility study alternatives analysis to determine what the project should be. Now that we know what the project is, this is the contract that will allow us to procure the engineer to prepare the final design documents and the bidding documents so we can go out to bid for construction. so the timelines uh for the completion of the final design is in 2028 we have to issue a notice to proceed to construction in 2029 and the project needs to be completed by the end of 2030. we're hoping to fast track those timelines for a number of reasons. One is to take advantage of available funding. We plan to go out for more grants, hopefully, so we don't have to finance as much funding to construct it. And we will also be able to construct a trail over this project once the project, once the sewer project is completed.

Got it. Last question. That preliminary engineering report, I saw that they're asking for another one. Is that part of this funding? It'll cover a new engineering report, or we have one?

This will cover the basis of design report. And I could send you the previous documents that we have if you're interested on the planning documents.

Okay. I was just curious. Thank you.

Any other questions or comments? Moving on to item four. This is a contract with Arcadis for the final design of the west trunk sewer rehabilitation contract, also known as contract number three. This contract is in the amount of $712,900. And this is for the design of the final design of the engineering drawings and the bid documents to make a repair on the west trunk sewer which was recently discovered to be partially collapsed and in need of rehabilitation this is in the area along the west trunk sewer between lake drive and little britain road this project is being funded through financing also previously obtained through the new york state environmental facilities corporation Any questions or comments? Council Member Shakur.

Lake Drive and where?

Lake Drive and Little Britain Road. behind independent living others a steep embankment before you get to the stream and there's actually a city sewer embedded in that a bank that in the back behind the store to Danny. It's it's behind independent living behind the mosque and then behind the gymnastic studio not the fall. Mayor.

It's think thank you Jason any of these all these projects come with. milling, paving, ADA work or anything?

The south interceptor is almost entirely, the one we just discussed previous to this, is almost entirely in the woods, in the wooded areas, although a portion will cross South Water Street in the area where the train trestle crosses South Water Street. So that area will of course be repaved, but it's not really a significant area, just a crossing. okay um with the West trunk sewer project uh that doesn't involve a significant disturbance of the roadway either it's mostly in the embankment maybe a little bit of work on Lake Drive okay so it would of course repave the portion of Lake Drive but again not significant okay but of course the next contract is for Liberty Street and that's an entire streetscape reconstruction

And that's the South end of Liberty between in. Remember where where those projects those housing development projects are right.

Correct item 5 is a contract with our cadence for the design of the reconstruction of Liberty Street and that is the reconstruction of Liberty between and street and Renwick Street. all curbs sidewalk streetscape plantings um green infrastructure traffic lights along and that will also extend somewhat into the side streets that intersect liberty street in that area uh so we'll does any questions on four or five we could take them council members yeah so on this one right here i i don't know does this it says good faith effort yes document documentation is that with all our so any project that is funded through either new york state dec or in this case new york state efc they're both new york state entities new york state efc is essentially a state bank or a state lending institution when the city borrows money from these agencies they come with mwb requirements so all three of these projects that i just mentioned all have mwb requirements The state DEC or the state EFC sets the percentage participation for MWB. So once they set that percentage participation, it's typically between 20 and 30 percent, then the city has to comply with those requirements.

I just wanted to know about that. Was that part of the project by the Mullins department? Was that because that's state too, right?

The bridge project? The bridge project is federally funded that has DB requirements.

Okay. I just thought it might have the same documentation.

Slightly different because it's federal funding, but a similar idea. Got it. Thank you. Council Member Zerula?

Are we moving to item number five? I had a question about the community engagement, because I did see it was $170,000 for community engagement. And I was just curious, is that for input on the plan, or is it just to notify people when construction's gonna happen?

So the city previously undertook the planning phase of this, and in the final design portion of the project, which is what item five is, the city will undertake a public input session consisting of a number of public projects to gain in public input. We'll have a public website where the public can see the project and provide input on the conceptual designs. And we'll also have renderings, and Arcadis will be involving a landscape architect in the design of the Liberty Street project as well. Got it.

and there was a mention of like us trying to fill a gap for short-term financing the we didn't get one of the grants the water infrastructure improvement act one are we filling that gap by applying they're helping us apply to others or are we filling in the gap so for the liberty street project we were um we were awarded three three different grant rounds of grant funding we were awarded 10 million dollars in new york state decw equip funding

We were awarded $1.7 million in GRG funding. That's for green infrastructure implementation. And then we were awarded $6.8 million in ESD funding for the pro-housing community funding. because we're reconstructing utilities to accommodate housing in the corridor. We will also apply for additional grants if they become available. We have a pending grant application with the TAP program. That's the Transportation Alternatives Program. That's a state DOT-funded program. The TAP program is the one that funded the reconstruction of Liberty Street between Broadway and Anne, the one that the city previously completed. um that's that was essentially a demonstration project that was funded by the tap program so but that is a pending grant application with the tap that we we have not been awarded yet thank you any additional questions councilmember monteverde

So Jason, you mentioned the Liberty Street project, the one in the beginning, right where Broadway and Anne Street is. Any chance that we'll be doing bioswales anywhere else, or that was just an experiment?

We will be doing green infrastructure and bioswales on the remainder of the corridor.

OK. Wonderful. Thank you.

Any additional questions? OK. Moving on to item six, we'll hear from the assistant comptroller.

Good evening.

The comptroller is not in today, so I'm here to present the agenda item. Item number six, a resolution authorizing the city manager to execute a contract renewal with Prudential Insurance Company to provide life insurance coverage for two year renewal term. Any questions or comments?

I'm just glad to see that rates didn't go up. It looks like they remain steady.

Yeah, the rate remains the same. No rates are going up. The term will be beginning from June 1st this year up to May 31st, 2028. So two years. With no change in rate, two years.

Is that the longest term? Can we take advantage of short term rates for longer or is this the maximum term we can go for insurance? I'm just curious.

It's generally been a two year renewal term.

Okay, yeah. No further, thank you.

Any additional questions on this item? Okay, thank you. Thank you. Item seven, we'll hear from Corporation Counsel.

Item seven is hopefully one of the last steps that the city has to take in the Penrose acquisition of the born and Kenny apartments. So there is a federal environmental review process. It's similar to the state secret act. This is the NEPA act. And the city is the responsible entity for performing that review. And in this particular instance, the subject matter of the rehab of the property is categorically the equivalent of a type two secret action. So there's no further environmental impact. And it's the city as the responsible entity making that finding. So you have in your packets, you have the environmental review statement that was prepared by Penrose Consultant to help guide you to that conclusion. But this is the rehabilitation of, it's regulated by the federal government because of the voucher program, right? So the voucher program generally is not what we think of when we think about environmental impacts. okay the acquisition of the property and the rehabilitation of the property is a triggering event but for the regulatory purpose of NEPA and the federal government's involvement on the voucher program it's essentially a type two action there's no environmental significant environmental impact it's the voucher program doesn't touch the water it doesn't touch the land we're not changing the number of units we're not changing the occupancy we're not changing the sewer capacity we're not chained there's no impact on parking and traffic because it's a rehabilitation of an existing set of housing accommodations all right so I want to just make sure that everybody understands I'm getting a few quizzical looks if you have some questions I'll be happy to take them council members score which building is that the old firehouse right here no no this is for born and kenny this is for born and kenny Okay. Penrose Acquisition of the Borningtonny Apartments.

Oh, I thought this was, I'm not sorry.

No, that's okay. You were a little ahead of yourself. I got it. It's a long week.

Council Member Monteverde, did you have a question?

I'm ahead, I'm ahead.

Yes, thank you. So it's not considered to be in a flood zone, correct? Or wetlands?

not considered to impact the flood zone or any of those water impacts. Again, the nexus of the environmental regulations is the voucher program, right? So the acquisition of the property is gonna be an action, the rehabilitation is going to be an action, but the nexus between the federal government's interest and the property is the voucher program. So essentially it's like a secret type two action. It's categorically not a significant impact, okay?

I have a quick question.

They did mention some mitigation conditions, asbestos, lead-based paint, and radon. Do we have to certify that? I'm not sure this is new to me.

No, the city is not going to be doing the certification. The contractors will be, when they do the renovations of the properties, they will have to test for lead and asbestos. They will have to apply for any of the variances. The same way the city, when we demolish a property or renovate a property in the city of Newburgh that's over a certain age and we have to test for those materials and then take appropriate caution if they're found to exist. so that'll be the the that'll be the um the purchaser's responsibility when they become the owner um and they're going to be undertaking that work but like i said when we're talking about why the city is making the uh the why the city's making the findings and why the city's doing what it's doing um the federal regulations find that the city's the responsible entity the place where the property is located And then the nexus between the federal government and the project is the voucher, right? It's the voucher system. It's not, per se, the renovations. So let me put it this way. In SIGGRA, if you're applying for a grant, that's an action under SIGGRA, but it's categorically a type two action, right? So the project itself may be construction, it may be demolition, it may be renovation, but you're doing secret for the purpose of applying for that grant, it's a categorical type two action. So here, again, the nexus between the federal government and the project is the voucher program. It's a financing type of a mechanism, right? And so that's how we get to the exemption from environmental impacts.

And when do we stop being the responsible party? Is it after they've completed the work or after we sign off on this?

When we sign off.

Okay. That was what I was curious about.

Any additional questions on this? Okay. Moving on to item number eight.

Okay. Items number eight and nine are.

Items number eight and nine are very similar. They are for two separate properties on Broadway, 59 Broadway and 75 Broadway. These properties were sold in 1979 by the former Newburgh Urban Renewal Agency. to Samuel Mandel and Ann Mandel. They are currently owned by the Brewster Family Properties Limited Liability Company. Walter Mandel is the managing member and the properties are being sold. Deed covenants from the original deeds to the Mandels from the Urban Renewal Agency came up in the title report, they no longer can be enforced. The statute of limitation on enforcement has long since expired. The city is the successor in interest to the Newburgh Community Development Agency, which is a successor in interest to the Newburgh Urban Renewal Agency. So the city is, again, I'm going to use the same term, responsible entity for releasing those deed covenants. so the posture of the sale is a little bit different than what we've come to you before uh with releases of covenants where the statute of limitations has expired and the covenants are not enforceable so the city is recommending that the council approve the release and clear the title for both properties any questions on eight and nine mayor

Yeah, we thought we own that that's the parking lot isn't it adjacent to mesh Realty's office. I knew the Mendels.

Yeah, I don't. It's 15, so the property is also known as 59-61, so it could have been renumbered along, but it's not a city-owned property.

And it's not the parking lot?

It's not the parking lot. These are buildings.

Okay, okay. These are buildings. Okay, thank you.

Any additional questions on 8 and 9? Okay, moving on to item number 10.

Item number 10 is a cooperation agreement between the City of Newburgh and New City Parks for the Delano Hitch Recreation Park Rehabilitation Project. So all of you were here for the presentation at the last work session about New City Parks coming in and preparing a plan for the Delano Hitch Recreation Park and preparing a grant application in order to make improvements to the playground facilities at that location. And we talked about how we could make that project work and what some of the responsibilities of each of the parties would be. And so New City Parks and I have been working diligently to try to come to an arrangement where we can, as best we can, allocate the responsibilities of the parties to try and make that project a successful project. So both parties agreed to participate to the fullest extent and cooperate. You'll see that there's a phase one and a phase two of the project. Phase one is the one that we've discussed about applying for the New York Plays grant. to get the funding in order to do the playground improvements. And if that's successful, then we would be able to continue on into phase two, which would take a broader view of the facilities at the park and determine what other improvements might be feasible and fundable along the way. So you have the agreement. We we think it's you know we're hopeful i understand there was a public engagement session facilitated by new city parks on wednesday night and so they are going full force and steam and if anybody has any questions specifically about the agreement i can take those as well any questions or comments

I just want to say thank you for, I know you guys are all busy and I think this is a once in a lifetime opportunity where these funds are just disappearing and won't no longer exist to fund our parks. I know the community engagement session, we had like 30 something people there and heard from a lot of people. I think a lot of people generally were concerned of why are we not taking care of the existing playgrounds and had a list of concerns. This grant can't fund existing playgrounds. And Delano just met all the scoring criteria to give us the best shot for the grant. And there's other grants within this cooperative agreement to hopefully help improve the whole park. So I'm excited and thank the staff for taking the time to give us a shot at applying for these grants.

Any additional questions?

okay moving on to item 11. item 11 is the resolution uh to authorize the city to apply for and accept if awarded the new york plays grant uh we are uh applying we are requesting to be able to apply for the largest award which is two million which would give us um and requires a twenty percent match which is uh the five hundred thousand dollars At this point in time, we have not really identified where that 500,000 might come from. We have some ideas. And if you have some other ideas, we would need to know in the next couple of weeks so that we can include them in the application. The application deadline, I believe, is June 15th. So we have a little bit of time to see where we might be able to find some additional funds.

mayor yes thank you michelle and uh mr morris uh this is exciting to even to consider because as Councilman Zaria was saying about the existing parks that we have that need some TLC as Michael Jackson would say tender loving care. And if we were awarded this 2.2 million dollars. We would we would be able to address some of those those parts that are that need that TLC separate from the grant efforts with new city parks so this is really cool it's like doubling down on on the effort of trying to address some of the needs of our kids and our families in the city so I really appreciate this and hopefully we'll get this one so any other questions or comments

Okay, moving on to item 12. Item 12 is a resolution of support from the City Council to supporting Assembly Bill A.10568. This is a bill introduced by Assemblyman Jacobson for restructuring the lead line replacement program. to change it from a competitive grant process to a direct reimbursement process to the municipality or potentially the homeowner for up to $10,000 to replace lead drinking water service lines. Mayor Harvey.

Yes, I and I just want to say for the record, you know the lead line. So the lead service line lead line service removal and renovation work has been ongoing. I think we were up to 2.5 million where private residents, you know, got these lead line lead water service lines replace for free at no cost. And I want to say to our superintendent of water, the engineers department, everyone involved, including Mr. Morris, Wayne Vandenberg, everybody. This was a very, very big effort and it not only spoke in volumes to Albany with the work that we have done, but it also spoke to the White House and got a couple of invitations for me to be a part of the water summits. under the Joe Biden administration at the White House and it was because of the work that we all have completed thus far so I'm definitely in support of this I've even spoken to Assemblyman Jacobson about this so I definitely want to support this this is a this is a continued effort Because we know what lead does to not only children but humans in general and a lot of our residents were exposed unfortunately to lead water service lines and that is a very very dangerous and hazardous circumstance.

Council members are you.

The I was a beneficiary of the lead line replacement and I appreciate the city's efforts over the years I was just curious now that this is not competitive was the other one competitive a couple years ago was it.

so the the way the previous program would go the the city would have to go out or the municipality the applicant would have to go out and evaluate an area to determine where lead service lines may exist and then submit them through a grant process in a batch um and that it would be competitive against other municipalities whether it be awarded or not generally thus far the city has used other funds to replace lead service lines such as dasny funding and then the city's allocation of arpa funding the city council allocated a portion of the arpa funding that we received to the replacement of lead water service lines in the city of newberg the property owner owns the entire water service from the house to the water main The ownership structure varies between municipalities. There's no set rule. In some cases, the municipality might own the entire water service or a portion of the water service. But in the city of Newburgh, the property owner owns the entire water service. So the previous replacement Programs the city has had the property owner would procure estimates and procure the contractor and then the city would reimburse the homeowner up to $10,000 for the replacement of their water line once that work was completed We pre qualified the contractors though.

Yeah, okay Thank you councilmember Stewart

Yes, thank you, Jason. I've run into a couple of our seniors who benefited from the grants that were given from the, I think it was CDBG, or was it ARPA? probably arpa okay um one was very excited that um she had she was a senior i think she was about 76 years old and she had gotten a quote for 18 000 to do the lead line she didn't have that money uh and someone uh that was a part of our talk told her to reach out to um the water department and the water department told her what process that she needed to go through in order to apply for whatever. She got that funding and she was able to secure $8,000. The person who was the contractor actually decreased it because they knew that she had gotten the funding. I think it was like out-of-pocket cost of like $3,000 or something like that. She was very happy with that.

um with that do we have a list of right now of people who have lead lines or we have known lead yeah so the the city is currently undertaking an inventory to determine where all the lead lines exist we will the water department is hydro excavating each property to determine the makeup of the water service between the house and the curb and then the curb and the road This is part of a federal mandate that the city has to do. There was a previous compliance deadline to submit in a partial inventory, which we met the deadline, and the city has to make progress of 20% per year, determining additional lead inventory service lines. So you'll see the city's water department out again in the street hydrovac-ing curb valves to make the progress of 20% this year.

Okay, and when we get that list will be able to see pretty much do an estimate of what that will cost and then

Yes, once we know the entire universe of lead lines out there, we can determine the cost. We know roughly approximate numbers, and it's in the magnitude of tens of millions of dollars, $30 to $40 million to replace the lead service lines in the city. We will also be updating the city's website at some point in the near future with a map that will show the locations and the material types for all the water service lines in the city as that progress is made.

And is there a room for like a priority list? Like if we know if it's something, if the lead lines are connected to probably senior home, people that own the homes that are seniors, disabled vets or anything like that, or is that not possible?

In the past, we've prioritized properties that are single family residences, or I believe some multifamily residences.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Monteverde.

So when this the first time it came around I also took advantage of it and got my lead line replaced and I have to say it was a seamless process very easy to do I got the bids and it happened pretty quickly they did a fantastic job so I hope that you know we can continue to do this for all of the households in the city of Newburgh as i know that you know it's mandated and we have to do this so i hope we can find the money to do it thank you any additional questions okay moving on to item 13.

item number 13 is a project of the arts and cultural commission um they are proceeding with their art biz project for the summer of 2026 for those of you who are not aware um the art biz program was created um in the just post covid time um as a summer workshop for young people so that local artists would have an opportunity to introduce young people to the arts and arts as viable career paths. The most recent iterations of the program occurred in 2023 and 2024. We were unable to get organized to do it last summer, but the Arts and Cultural Commission has been moving forward to do it for 2026. uh this year it will be for six saturdays um from july 18th to august 22nd and will culminate in a seventh week of an art show curated by the project manager to showcase all the work that the kids the young people will be producing during these workshops so the first step is we put out a call for the project manager position that's the contract that is before you tonight There were seven applications. They were scored by a subcommittee of the Arts and Cultural Commission. Nadia Tahun was the highest scorer in terms of qualifications. And the recommendation is for the city council to approve a contract for her to come in and coordinate the program for this summer there'll be a call for artists to come in and be the teaching artist for the instruction program and also to have registration for the kids and to coordinate the purchase of the supplies and the reimbursements So the whole program is budgeted for just under $10,000. There is a two page proposal as the last part of your packet, so you can see what the whole program is like. The resume and cover letter of the recommended contract manager is also in there, and the scope of services. This has been really successful, a really popular project, and Arts and Cultural Commission is hoping that you will take their recommendation and improve the contract.

Mayor Harvey. Yes, thank you. Michelle and Jason. This is really exciting. Not only because we want to celebrate and expose art to our youth in the city, but I just want to make everyone aware and I believe many of the council members are already aware. We were I was notified that the Boys and Girls Club was not going to have summer camp programming this summer due to some sort of funding issue. And things like this, you know, a six-week program in addition to all the work that's going to happen with our summer program at the Rec Center. I know we have a summer camp for the youth in the Recreation Department. And then I believe the Armory Unity Center still does a summer camp program as well where they bring kids to Mount Saint Mary College for swimming. So just want to make it on the record that the word is out in the community and parents have called me very, very upset and hysterical about the prospect that the boys and girls club is going to have their summer youth program so anything like this that we might be doing to engage the young people in our community and to assure the parents and the families that kids are going to be actively engaged in productive activities learning activities fun activities I'm also going to speak with the executive team at the Newburgh and large city school district to see what what they might be willing to do for the fact that the Boys and Girls Club may not have their summer camps so just want to make everyone know yep because of funding so that's what we were told just two three days ago so just want everyone to be aware yeah

Council member Stewart. Any additional questions.

If we do this every year is this we have to do the new project manager every year. Every time.

sorry we generally do a call for instructor on an annual basis this is a contract position it's a short-term employment and so we they have been doing this on an annual basis like I said they didn't hold the program last year they're very eager to hold it this year and so we can again see how it proceeds and see how the Commission to see if it's something that can be expanded or made into something more permanent than what we have. But we've been doing it on an annual basis.

Okay. I was just asking because of the turnover in terms of getting a new project manager every year. I didn't know if that was just standard.

um it has been so the the yeah the project manager from two years ago did is not one of the summities this year so sometimes it's just a mat and sometimes it's uh you know just a very of who's who's present and who's available at a given time okay thank you any additional questions all right moving on to item 14. Item 14 is the local law to establish the charter review commission. The local law has been introduced. It's public hearing has been convened and completed. Unless if there are no material changes proposed to local law, the city council is able to vote on the local law on Tuesday night.

Questions? Council Member Monteverde.

I want to thank you Michelle for putting this together. I know that you know we have tasked you with quite a bit this year so far and this is major. I understand the charter review commission and I hope that you know at the end of the day they when they come together they do their community engagement that's for me the number one thing that I hope that they focus on and they can get out into all of the neighborhoods and in the community to make sure that they're you know reaching out and engaging the community to let them know what this is all about and get input from them so thank you for all your hard work additional questions comments

I just wanted to say to echo. Councilman Ronta Verde when Michelle said miss kelson said that she had some previous experience in putting this local law together that was really confirming and satisfying that you didn't have to like completely start from scratch from something else and try to do a whole lot of research so thank you for putting this together and it looks good.

I know funding was one of the questions for, and I'm not sure when's the timing. Is it after we get the commissioners and the 30 day notice and people apply and we pick them?

So right now, as we stand right now, there's no budget allocation for this in the 2026 budget. The local law, presuming that it gets adopted on Tuesday, will have to be reported to the Secretary of State for filing. Once we get the acknowledgment of filing back from the Secretary of State, that's going to start the clock running on the substance of establishing the Commission so the time frame for putting solicited putting out the solicitation collecting the applications collating the applications getting to the council and council making appointment that's brought that time frame will probably take us through most of the summer during the summer will be the beginnings of your budget preparation for 2027 So the council, the city is obligated to pay the expenses of the charter review commission regardless of, so that's something that you will have to contemplate in your budget preparations for next year. Again, we can continue to look for funding. I know the Hudson Valley, the consolidated funding application book is coming out shortly. the last time that the city undertook charter review uh we had a local government efficiency grant i don't think that that program exists anymore um and so we would have to find another program that would be supportive of these types of activities to offset um any other you know to find a way to pay for it other than through uh an allocation in the 2027 budget got it thank you

Any other questions? All right. Moving on to item 15 in the discussion items. This is a recurring discussion item regarding the audio and recording for the land use boards. At the last discussion, at the last meeting, there were some IT-related questions, so I invited the IT director to be here this evening if we want to discuss anything related to the audio and the audio recording for these land use boards. Council Member Zaria.

Yeah, I know the. the question was uh i think running uh uh lan or internet uh line to wherever we're gonna have i think there was the heritage center on the second floor where um we identified with the help of everett of like a good location big space it needs some work but one of the things that we came up with and realized is that there's no high-speed internet i think the i.t department is working on rewiring and adding new endpoints across the whole city and they're busy kind of rewiring the whole network and I saw the work that they're doing and it is a lot of work so one of the questions that came up is like we need to run lines of high speed internet to the wherever we decide will be the place to stream and there was a question mark of like how much that costs and that's what I was curious about when we started the conversation.

Yeah, good evening everyone. It has to be planned properly and it's not that we don't have high speed internet, we just don't have it in that specific area on the floor where you intend to do this. And you know I'll support as much as I can. The reality is we'll have to run the wiring because the city's wiring computerized wiring is very very outdated so we have to get new wiring I have the physical wire I don't have you know it becomes a question of who is gonna run it who's gonna manage it how are we gonna get it going it wasn't budgeted for this year my staff is I had one guy called in sick today and that left me with one person to run the entire city I only have two people I've been discussing this with the city manager. So it's not that it's not doable. I have a list of prioritized projects for this year that was already. I mean, if you guys decide you want to do it, of course we'll do it. But I would rather if we can wait a little bit and get some more important IT items out of the way that my team is addressing.

Mayor Harvey.

Yeah, I think it's a wonderful idea. I definitely support it. But to what you're saying, Mr. Muhammad, is to plan it out. I would recommend the rec center because the recreation center, I think most of the land use board meetings are there. And that would be ideal because sometimes- I have already wired the

REC Center.

Yeah, so the REC Center is already wired. I think most of the land use meetings are there. If they're not, if there are a couple that are at the Heritage Center, that could be, it's easier to relocate them and schedule them accordingly. And then, since it's already wired at the REC, because we go there at times when there's an overflow and we're at capacity here, we relocate there and it's easier to stream and go live either here or the REC. So I think that if we're not fully equipped to stream at the REC, I think that that will probably be what I recommend.

Yeah, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. What I was going to say is it's not just wiring. Council member brought up the wiring issue, but it's equipment, even the equipment in this room. So it's not just wiring. We're looking at $40,000, $50,000. It's very, very high-tech stuff. The chief of staff has mentioned that if we're going to do this and Todd previously and now Jason, we're going to do it right and have it done long term. So the wiring is there at rec. The position that the council member wanted to do here would have to be wired at 123 grand. That's not so much a cost issue. The issue is the equipment to get it done.

Council Member McLemore.

So I was going to before mayor Harvey said I was going to suggest that we move the land use boards to the wreck as well because I believe when we when I go there and see some of the meetings, I mean I thought that would be something that would be appropriate, especially As he said, when we go there for the overflow, this is, you know, we're streaming. So I believe that this is it'll be something that will be equitable. And, you know, I'm always about cost as well. I was one of the ones that asked about, you know,

Totally agree. And we won't use the rec only for the land board meetings. Like the mayor said, whenever it's too big for here, we go there when we can't accommodate. So that's, I think, I don't mean to rebut you, but I think that's the wiser decision to do it there. The issue still remains cost of equipment, cost of managing it and that sort of thing. And When you do these things, you can't just put it where people can reach it. It has to be secured properly. It has to go behind the wall wiring and stuff like that. It has to get shielded wiring to get the quality that we want. So I already spoke to a couple of vendors. I have some ideas of what we can do, and I'm discussing it with the city manager.

And that's the one thing I want to see the budget and how much is it's actually going to cost for the overall thing so we all can see that.

Yeah, I'm putting that together for you.

Council member Monteverde.

So is it the access points or is that what you're going to be using or.

No, no, no, if I open this room here councilmember you'll see the equipment that we've been used for hearing this for putting it on the television for sending it out to the cloud that sort of thing. We have full, the REC director can tell you, we're fully equipped in terms of Wi-Fi and updated internet. That was one of the first buildings I did in the city. So they are top notch in terms of that. The issue is the equipment, how are we going to, you know, we have to hire a vendor to come in and help us with that. And when we are running it, we have Everett most of the time doing it for us. On the side, I can discuss with you what it's costing me to have my staff here just to babysit it. Always before we have a meeting, we go in and we test and make sure everything is running. So it's not as simple as wiring.

OK so I think you know this is something that we really should prioritize because in this day and age we should be able to tune in and see what's going on. I couldn't make that me I totally forgot that there was a meeting this week and I really wanted to be there and to be able to access that you know or stream it would have been great.

If the council approve one or two additional staff for me and we put together a budget for it, I can get almost anything done for you. I've been doing this all my life. Sure.

Thanks.

Mayor Harvey.

Yeah. And so that leads us to looking at between now and the end of fiscal year planning, you know, getting organized and then looking at those budgetary cost as Councilman Macklemore suggested. Yeah, because it's perfect timing because we're going into budget season at the end of august and september we hear from all the departments and we can you know put that on your list uh if how much uh staffing is going to be needed for the fiscal year 2027 what is needed in terms of equipment securing the equipment making sure all those contingencies are included even with maintenance long term any contracts and agreements we may have to make with our um verizon who does our fiber optics uh and things like that so i think i think it's a good time councilman zuria mentioned it so that we can start planning between now and the fiscal year and we'll have those on the on the um on cue for those budget hearings coming up in september

And I have, let's say, half of it done already, Mr. Mayor. It's just the budgeting and the staff placement, and I can get that running for you. One of the biggest projects that we just went live, but we're not fully live, we're still testing, is I redid the entire network in the entire city of Newburgh, I mean brand new. The reason, yeah, and now we have triple redundancy. In the past, Crown Castle, our internet provider would go down and everything is down. That is not gonna happen anymore. So pertaining to the rec, If we get there and we're doing meetings, I want to make sure that if this network goes down, this one comes up automatically. So we're almost done with that. So it's not just we're going to do this right with your approval, we're going to do this right, and we have the means of, well, once we get the means of doing it, it's just a matter of scheduling it. Council member Zaria.

I just wanted to add, I'm not partial to anywhere. Any city building where we can stream, I don't care if it's Heritage, Rec, I just want to make sure that the community and us are keeping tabs of what's happening in the city and can participate. I find out things on Facebook and random calls, and I would like to tune in, but it's kind of hard to be at every meeting. So I don't care if it's at the Heritage, Rec, I'm not partial to wherever it has to be, that we can make it happen. One of the things that we considered when I was having a conversation with Everett with ECG Media, who does our streaming, is that in the Rec Center, he brings his gear every time, and that adds to the cost. If we set it up in a place that we didn't have to remove it, That saves us like having this set up here.

Yeah, so I think aside we're gonna get our own equipment Yeah, so aside so there are other aspects so that so we're gonna get a I'm sorry to cut you across We're gonna get our own equipment and our own people to run it Everett will still be working with us as a consultant Hey, if we need this and we don't have the idea how to do it stuff like that I would like to bring all of that in-house We're spending a lot of money right now that could be channeled differently and get a more professional product out of it.

Council Member Shekhar.

So has this cost us anything already? Just looking into it, has this already cost us anything already? I don't understand what you- Has this inquiry about putting cameras or whatever doing down, has this cost us anything already?

Has it cost anything already?

Yes, has it cost anything already?

No, I had given the previous city manager a proposal, but it wasn't priority at the time. It was for rec. Now the council is bringing this up, and obviously what you guys say is priority. So, you know, it's halfway done, like I said. It's just a matter of getting the resources, meaning employees and funding.

Council Member Stewart?

Yes, thank you, Jason. Two questions. One, is there a temporary option that we can tap into to stream? Because the meeting that happened this past week, I wasn't able to attend, but I would have loved to be able to tap into it. Like, is there something that we can do from our Facebook? Absolutely. Someone has a phone or camera set up?

No, no, no. What we do, whenever we have meeting outside of this office, this hall, this room, Everett brings his equipment and streams for us, so we can do it. The thing is, if you have a very small meeting, it'll have to be your decision. There are five people in the meeting if you want to spend the money to have a consultant come in and Everett come in and stream that. So that's the issue. It's not that we can't have something on demand. Yes, we can.

So maybe I need to adjust that question. Is there a temporary option that doesn't cost us to have a streaming that way?

It costs us. I am testing right now. The thing is, I don't have...

I'm saying this, because if we're in a room, and it doesn't matter how many people are in a room, I think when you're streaming, other people get to actually see it, so it's not just the matter of people that are in a room. Is it possible, like, because if I'm in the space and I have my phone and I'm just streaming and I go live and the city goes live and you actually can hear it, like, that's

pretty cost effective is that feasible though it is feasible of course almost anything is feasible right uh with some adjustments but um if we're gonna do these meetings at rec my advice would be to set it up right you know no i know that's long term but just saying do we have something short term that we can tap into right now the best thing we can tap into is a little bit costly

And the second question that I had is when we have our, no, sorry, this is about the setup for the internet and streaming. What are we doing about the microphones? Is the microphone and audio there so people can hear or even the access? I just looked at my notes and it's been like two and a half months since it was brought up that there was no microphone. The microphones that were there are not working. This is one of the reasons why I wanted to implement the green light. process because it shouldn't take that long to order some microphones or maybe I don't understand the process that well, but to order some microphones that so that people can hear what's actually going on.

We actually do have a system there at REC that we use temporarily. The previous REC director had bought it. We don't have sufficient microphones, you're right, but we can easily get a couple more microphones and connect them to that system that's there. It's not the best, but it can do recording, but it can't stream. So everybody can hear, but we'll have to still get a consultant to come in and stream.

When can we get that done? Jason, I mean, it's been like almost two and a half, almost three months, microphones.

Camille, what do you think the order of magnitude of cost for that is?

I'll have to look at it. The cost has come down a bit, but it's still costly. I don't want to average a cost right now. I can average a time. I can order them and have them here within two, three weeks.

We're just talking $1,000, $2,000 maybe. $1,000.

We just need to make sure it's under the bidding threshold. That's all.

It will be. It will be. Okay. So we'll get that done.

No problem. Yeah, I will say it. Oh, at the community engagement session yesterday, it was The microphone in the rec has a rubber band that if you don't hold it properly, you can't speak on that microphone. And it was kind of embarrassing to have that as a community engagement event. And so I don't know how we could fix the rubber band or just the XLR cable that plugs into that microphone, but it does need help for the public.

We'd prefer to use wireless microphones.

don't know what we did during covid and i don't know how we adjusted so quickly and it didn't require expensive equipment like everything was streamed covered we did everybody zoomed we everybody was home nobody was in a room together yeah that's so it was zoom but you can't do that with your public um with your public bodies they have to So all of your land use boards are public bodies, they're subject to the open meetings law just like you are. So you can't have all the board members in their own houses using Zoom so that everybody can tune in that way, okay? That's how we did it during COVID, is we weren't all concentrated. Everybody was on their own screen using Zoom as a platform, and then other people could tune in. So that's how we did it during COVID. But with the current pandemic, the open meetings law, even with the video conferencing rule, you need a quorum of your public body to be in a physical, one physical location in order to comply with the open meetings law.

Council Member McLemore.

so also when you talk about um can't hear it you can't hear the uh it's inaudible uh the microphones um you gotta remember that the you have a a program also and i was explaining this to the mayor um you have a program but when it comes with the mics you might need to be into a mixer your mixer that's how you can hear it clearly instead of just getting it from the camera itself. And that's why we can't hardly hear sometimes because there's the connection is wrong. So I mean, it's one of the things I do on the side. But anyway, so, so, you know, Everett knows what I'm saying and he knows what I'm talking about. So that's why when Camille says you got to do it right, we need to do it right so everybody can hear. Everybody who's talking needs to hear. They need to be some type of receiver that is picking that up and is crystal clear. You got iRig, you got all this other stuff, you know, you can go into the mixer and video and all that other stuff that you can put inside to make it clear. And that's why it's really not clear as well with the microphone.

Go ahead, sorry.

If I may add to that, you know, hearing within the room is a different thing from broadcasting and streaming. So you may be in the room and you're hearing it really well, but when it's broadcasted on the air, it's totally different. So you're absolutely right.

I will say in the interim, us thinking outside the box, it doesn't have to be streaming. Maybe it's recorded with good audio and we post it later. I think that there's enough technology and tools that are not high end, gated, you know expensive equipment that could allow us to do this also if we think outside the box maybe it doesn't have to be live streamed maybe it's recorded audio synced i don't know i'm just trying to think outside the box because a lot of things are happening and i think it's important for the community to participate because it just saves us foil requests misinformation a lot of accusations and made up theories about what's happening in the city and i think that will just save us money and time as council people as staff members to deal with um accountability transparency and all the things um so it's my opinion and we continue the conversation we're not going to figure it out tonight so thank you for absolutely and see the camera about there council member the one on the tripod

It's there doing exactly what you said. It's recording every meeting so that if something happened to the stream, the next day we can use that recording to stream. So we can do that.

I'm thinking outside the box if it's already happening. We could just post it later, but again, we don't have to figure it out tonight. I'm going to keep asking for it and thinking of other ways, but I appreciate it.

We've got to get somebody to run that. Wherever you take that, IT's got to have a staff member there to run it, to make sure the cables are connected correctly. It's not as simple as just carrying a tripod and putting it up.

yeah you know so we could continue yeah i get it yeah okay you're very well thank you very welcome

Moving on to item 16. This is a discussion item on the city manager search. So last week the proposals came back in response to RFP 4.26 for the city to hire a consultant to search for a city manager. We can have an open discussion on the general items surrounding the search. If we're going to talk specifically about any of the consultants that submitted a proposal, that should be done in executive session. Councilmember Stewart.

So I looked over. Some of them and because they are extensive proposals. I I'm suggesting that maybe we kind of break it down to where some people can look at some and do I know you did the scoring sheet with the pricing that was very helpful and also in terms of. what you felt was important in terms of that scoring sheet. But I think if we just kind of break it down and a couple of us take some and take some notes and see what we scored as, I think that would.

So If there's a scoring sheet, everybody should score all of the applications. Once those scoring sheets are complete, you can aggregate the scores, you can take the mean of the scores, you can take the total of the scores, and then you can have some discussion about your next steps. In my opinion, everybody should complete the score sheet and those scores should be tabulated and then you can talk about maybe intangibles.

So I was making that suggestion so we didn't all have to read 13 or 12 of those extensive ones. So if you paired it up and said, you know, you two look at these and then you come back with something and you tell us what it was and we can trust, you know, everybody's assessment of that. But everybody looking at 13 of those, I'm not sure how it's.

That's generally how it works, though.

I know that's how it works, but it's going to take a lot longer, and we can pair up to say you take two, you take the first two, you take those second two, and then we can figure out. But we can figure that out amongst ourselves on how we do that.

Council Member Monteverde.

I agree. I've already gotten through 6 and 2 days and it's you know, it's time consuming. But if we could split it up maybe.

I've only gotten through 3, not even fully.

This is a major decision. I think we should all clear a weekend and really read all this because this is a major decision.

I will do it.

I think we should all read every single one of them. This is a decision that changes the trajectory of our city. I think that's important.

So to make the process easier, we have printed out hard copies and proposals. They were also pushed into a drop box, which the council has access to, so it's centralized. So if you want a hard copy, a physical copy to look at, we have them in the executive office. We printed four copies so far. We'll print seven if we need to. Just wanted to see if there was any interest in doing it that way.

Yeah, and I had recommended that they print it. Yesterday I asked Mr. Morris to print out the hard copy because all the computer stuff was getting a little bit tedious and tiring, yeah, and boring. And my office is open. Obviously, I have an open-door policy. I'll have a few copies on the meeting table in my office if people want to drop by and they want to spend time in there to score their sheets if you need a place to do it. We also have the law library open and available to everyone if people want to come at their leisure. you know, to have the hard copies. You put them out on the table. It's easier to kind of read through them and go do it that way. So we have a couple options here in the building, spaces for you, whether it be my office and or the law library. We'll make sure it's available, Mr. Morris, for them, for the council members. If that's something, if you need a clear space so you can have a clear head and be focused on that task, I think the hard copies are probably the best way to go.

I'm happy to share my scores if anybody wants to copy. I mean, I'm okay with that. I'm just kidding. That's a joke. I want a hard copy. I will say that for the public, I mean, one of the high items that we included in the RFP was a public forum to make sure the public is engaged. in the process of selecting the next city manager it's not just going to be us we also made sure in the rfp that we included department heads so they're engaged in the selection of the city manager and i'm excited that we got so many responses and we're lucky to have a lot of options and that makes our job a little bit harder but i think it gives us more options and that is a good thing mayor

I also want to make the council aware because I know. Sometimes we don't all talk and speak but one of the things that came up this week and last week just be mindful that while we're doing a search for consultants for a new city manager. that there's an ongoing charter review process that may change our government structure just be aware of that I just want to make everyone conscientious of that intentionally so that whatever we decide we with when we get to that point on choosing a city manager just kind of keeping in mind that there's this other thing moving simultaneously so just to be aware

thank you mayor so again there is four hard copies currently printed out we will distribute them first come first serve we'll get another three copies if necessary no problem we'll make it as easy as possible if you want hard copies we'll get them to you and i will stress will corporation council previously mentioned that it's really important for each council member to perform their own scoring and submit the scores i will combine them average them and come up with a final scoring sheet uh you should submit your scores directly to me

And I would, and I know time is of the essence, but this is also a time consuming process. So recognize that once you've been through all of the submissions, you do have to meet to select your preferred consultant and then you know you're gonna have to vote on a contract when we get to that point you're going into summer session so there's one meeting at the beginning of June and one meeting at the beginning of July so if You're going to have to think about how you're going to fit this process into that time schedule. If it's feasible for you to get through that scoring by the next work session, you could have a discussion in executive session of the proposals and maybe come up with a selectee, and then we could go to contract fairly by the July meeting. If that if that is that that timeline doesn't work you're gonna have to think about how else you want to do this within the confines of the open meetings law and your responsibilities as council members there Harvey I

And to that point, thank you, Ms. Kelson, because like I said, we have a lot of moving parts. We're trying to lock in a consultant for the city manager selection and do that in an open, transparent way with integrity. And then we have the charter review work and commission that's going to be formulated, and then we have a retreat that we're trying to do, and then we also have budgets coming up at the end of the summer, end of August, early September, and that becomes a very taxing schedule and lastly I want to mention after meeting with Mister Morris with the budgeting we he is requesting that we hire consultant for the budget process so there's a lot of moving parts there's a lot of nuances to each one of them and it's a lot of time and work and we all just as mrs kelson said we just all have to acknowledge that accept that and be hopefully willing and able and ready to do what we got to do to get these things done and it can be done and it will be done

It sounded like the mayor was asking for some special sessions to be added in. I mean, it's conceivable that you may want to schedule

Possibly one special work session between the July meeting and the August meeting, at least to have your discussion about the consultant selectee. Okay. Okay, that I think may be feasible, but we're not suggesting that you schedule multiple sessions at this point. No.

Council Member Monteverde.

So the ones that I've reviewed, the good thing is that they gave, you know, they all gave a schedule, right? And it's a very tight schedule. There's one consultant that has already done work with us. They did the water sewer study and sanitation. And I actually like this consulting firm. Very diverse. I'm looking at All of them and they've been a lot of them have included their DEI statements at the beginning which is you know for me I Actually like that so You know, hopefully we can come together and and agree on a couple of them with the scoring sheet. Thanks. I

mayor yeah and to that point council member monteverde and i talked about that briefly um the other day uh we we believe because that one particular that stood out it was very costly it came with a very cost high cost now are those things negotiable we should move those things to executive session if we're going to get into the details okay okay

Cost may or may not be negotiable. In the solicitation, you want to have an estimate of cost and budget. It's not going to be an exact science. A lot of it is going to be dependent on the scope and the amount of work. And even if you negotiate an amount, as you find out with other consulting projects, you may end up with a version of a change order because there's additional time or some extra session or some extra task that gets applied. So just be mindful that they're giving you what they would think is their best estimate, but it's not a bid in which case you can hold the contractor to not to exceed amount unless you scale back the work. Like if you're going to hold them to a ceiling, you may have to forego a certain piece of work at some point in the future. That's just how these things get managed.

Councilmember Zaria. My last question, and thank you. So this was in budget in 2026 and for 2026, so this would come out of the- So we would have to do a transfer once we determine who the consultant is and the approximate budget. Okay, thank you.

Any other questions on this item? Okay. Item 17 is a discussion item on the flock. camera issue um this item was brought by council member shakur do you have any anything you want to discuss on this item or any other questions or comments on the flock issue in general Council Member Zaria?

I'm curious if this contract, I know it was funded by a grant, and I know there was a suggestion at the end of how we should reappropriate, but is it still funded by that grant?

So the flock is funded by a DCGS grant, and the funding associated with that grant is not transferable to the things that were discussed in the previous work session.

Right.

So how long did that, I'm just curious, how long does that funding, is that allocated for this renewal basis? I know there's a two year renewal, did that grant cover X number of years?

The grant covered the initial startup and the initial term. The initial term was also extended through the end of 2025. So the grant covers the startup costs and the costs that were contemplated in the initial term of the contract, and that money's been expended. the renewal term is funded by a budget allocation to the police department in the 2026 budget and as general fund money there's also going to be limitations on what you could do with that money if it wasn't expended on this particular contract it's still in the police department It's still allocated to the police department, and it is a fund money, so there would be rules about expenditures of that money as well.

Go ahead. So we're technically renewed until next year in July?

The renewal term is 1-1-26 to 1-1-28. That's the renewal term that we're in right now.

Councilmember Stewart?

No, that's what I was going to ask is are we within that renewal time?

We're in the renewal term currently.

And if we did move to like

Forfeit the contract we would lose we would give up the next year of the 200 So we would still be legally binded to pay them your your yes if you yes if there's there are You can non renew the contract within a certain period of time in that renewal period But if you terminated the contract outside of that period yeah, you would be considered in breach and there would be consequences to the breach and

Council member Stewart.

When we do if this happens to be terminated and when it's terminated is their process. I don't know. I was trying to see in the agreement if there was a process in terms of storage like do does it delete the data, how do we make sure that that that they're not keeping any data or any data is in store.

The data belongs to the city. So we would retain the data, FLOC would come and dismantle and keep their equipment. Okay.

Mayor.

Yeah, I'd be remiss not to mention that the Department of Criminal Justice Services, which is known as DCJS, is one of our very important partners at the state level. They give us the GIVE grant funding, they give us some of the funding that we've had to do with i think it was two million at two million dollars and they've given it to us uh two to four million annually something like that um so we do want to figure out what the issues are especially from the community regarding the flock cameras what are some of those what are the deal breakers what are some of the compromises what are some of the things that we may be able to hopefully negotiate and get a better understanding of as it relates to the flock cameras. Because again, DCJS, Department of Criminal Justice Services, they give Newburgh a lot of money and we don't want to, let's just say, create sour grapes with that state entity, especially as it relates to public safety and what we want to do. so we just want to figure out what is there any are there any compromises are there any any alternative programs or alternative things we can do that might be better than the flock cameras or what the issues are so i just want to make you all aware that is a very important grant funding agency at the state level for us council member score

yes are we going to make a resolution because the community asked for it I just want to put the resolution together so we can vote on it so we can see who's for ice and who's against ice thank you so what what was submitted is not really a resolution and the way it's written we can't reallocate the funding so the council approved this contract and the council can determine whether or not to proceed with the contract or and how to go about that but that's council decision it's it's not my decision so my resolution was not going forward this The resolution, as it's written, it can't be implemented. You can't reallocate the funding. A, the funding's grant funding, it's already been expended. B, it can't be reallocated the way it's proposed in the resolution. The question about whether you want to terminate the contract non-renew the contract, terminate it immediately, terminate it in the future, non-renew it. That's a decision that the council has to make, and I need to hear from the council whether or not you want to proceed, how you want to proceed, and then that can be crafted into an appropriate resolution. But I haven't really heard from the council that there's a consensus

on any one of those concepts council members my resolution was to terminate the contract so that was my resolution so if they don't want to do that like i said i just want to put it before the community so we can know who's for ice and who's against life thank you council member stewart

um thank you so uh my comment was response to the mayors i think that the community was very clear on the reason and the reasoning for not wanting um flock cameras uh and there were several that came out uh it was the civil liberties the no the excuse me, the fact that we're a sanctuary, not a sanctuary city, a welcoming city. It definitely has ice exposure. It was a documented abuse nationwide about the usage of the cameras, the data and how it was being used. We noted that there were other peer cities here, which is Ithaca, Syracuse, Tompkins County, and people are still right now actually terminating their contracts with ICE or not renewing their contracts with ICE. uh and also the fact that um there were some vendor issues in terms of how flock had all already kind of installed some cameras reinstalled some cameras after termination in certain areas um so there were various reasons and i'm just reading some of them that was listed and noted and people don't want to be a part of a surveillance state and that was the biggest part um so i think right now it's really what um miss kelson is saying is that right now we the option is either to not terminate I'm sorry to not renew the contract when it is up in 2028 and please tell me if I'm correct or if it is to just forego that so right now you know we can move the terminate so again we need we will bring breach

There will be consequences if you immediately terminate. What I can tell you is I've seen the city of Ithaca resolution. That resolution directs the corporation council to find a way to extricate the city from the contract in a way that there are, in a legal and appropriate way. So it may be non-renewal might be your only option. I don't know at this point, but Ithaca did not say, okay, we're done, terminate the contract regardless of consequences. They were mindful of consequences. Some of the other cities that have terminated have then purchased the same technology and equipment from a different company. So it wasn't necessarily the surveillance aspect of the technology that seemed to bother them. It may have been the particular vendor. In another city, the council did vote to terminate. The mayor vetoed that, that city's in litigation between the mayor and the council over whether they should terminate the contract. So a lot of people have come to the microphone, they've made assertions, but those assertions are not necessarily 100% of the big picture with all the facts. So everybody should be mindful of all the facts and circumstances and think about what the consequences of your actions might be in making a decision. You have fiscal responsibilities. I know we have responsibilities to be a fair and welcoming city and to protect our vulnerable populations and I know those are goals. So this discussion is to kind of gel those thoughts and figure out what a path might be that would not be disruptive on a number of levels, right?

And thank you for that because that's what this conversation to me is about is to understand what you're talking about. What are our parameters? Where do we fit in? You know, what are those options? And to get more information about what the other cities that terminated what they did, right? So that is another layer to it. So thank you.

Is the council interested in hearing from the police department on any of the advantages of flock?

I mean, hearing about what? I missed the last part.

About the usefulness and advantages of Flock? I think, yeah.

Technology.

Yeah, I think at the last presentation I asked Captain Rolla if he could give us some numbers of how it's helped. Chief, sorry. Sorry for the wrong title.

Chief, would you mind discussing?

Also if we don't use it orange County uses it. So they're still that element of surveillance. I think out of the county, yeah, the county County, the county has it. The whole count. Yeah, including the sea. I would.

Chief, would you mind giving some examples in the current, what the police department does with Flock currently?

A few bits of clarity, just any Flock camera that is purchased by the city of Newburgh, in the city of Newburgh, there's no outside municipalities that have a Flock camera within the city of Newburgh. The city of Newburgh controls those LPRs and those data. An outside agency cannot get an LPR hit from our LPRs in the city of Newburgh without us allowing them, and we do not allow anyone. And just on ICE and everything like that, ICE has no access to our LPRs. If other agencies give ICE access to any of their technology, we can't control that. That would go the same for any LPR vendor that any municipality would use. ICE can contact them and be used. Hopefully as an additional comfort that the council can show the public is the police department did just complete the council resolution of the you know the extension of the fair and welcoming city with the ice resolution where we implemented strict policies rules and reporting that we will report to the council that policy can be shown to your constituents can be explained and i know there's always worry but hopefully these will lessen those worries as far as the flock when i was hired by the city of newark police department we had uh almost 100 police officers we were also top 10 in the country for crime per capita throughout my entire career and i'm certainly not taking credit for all this as you know the chief i will take a lot of credit uh one thing has happened we've we've through attrition lost police officers but we've learned how to police smarter and a lot of that is a growth in technology so we can leverage a technology as well as we're not casting a broad net. There's truly a small amount of percentage of individuals who commit the crimes, right? Like most people are good people. So now it's using data to focus on that to maximize technology, maximize the resources to prevent crime, which we've been able to do extremely well. Looking at Flock in particular, most crimes are attached to a vehicle. I hate to highlight crimes, but I think it's important in this aspect. Flock is regularly used by the police department. For example, a stolen vehicle. We, in the past, if a vehicle was reported stolen, you are almost finding that vehicle by blind luck. Often takes weeks, months, sometimes it's never found. Because if someone starts a car in the winter, and this happens all the time, comes outside because they're warming it up and the car is gone, you don't even have data to say like, oh, this person stole it, here's the places they go. From that point, it is just hopefully someone sees the car and recognizes it, where now we're recovering stolen vehicles sometimes in under an hour. We're using it for our strive domestic violence. A recent example of this is we had a violent domestic. This is like last month. We had a violent domestic. The offender was arrested, brought to arraignment that evening, was released with an order of protection. Immediately went back to the residence. The protected party was not there and the individual took the vehicle and went out. it's hard to say exactly their motivation when they took the vehicle and then went out when that protected party was not at the house but you could probably make assumptions with the help of flock we were able to locate that car in under an hour and we were able to place that individual back under arrest There's been multiple domestics where we have, through Strive and the DCGS grants, there is a high risk offender list. These are individuals who have committed violent domestic violence. They have now orders of protection against them, and then they violate those orders of protection. and they get a warrant. So we're trying to locate them. We go to house visits, we do all kinds of things. We had a specific instance not too long ago where we couldn't find this violent wanted offender. And once we got the license plate from the protected party, We were able to locate them within an hour. There's been multiple missing individuals we've located. We actually found a individual with dementia that wandered out. They didn't run away. They left, and utilizing Flock, we were able to safely locate them. Again, I hate highlighting violence, but it was in the press. So we had a shooting on Lander Street, actually, too, last month. Utilizing flock, again, a lot of things are tied to cars. I hate to talk about drive-by shootings. I hate to talk about violence. But vehicles are utilized. When we look at the large scale gun and drug trafficking case that was last year, I know the mayor was at the press conference. There was something like almost 100 guns seized. they come into the city with vehicles they're not carried in they're not walked in vehicles bring weapons in when we find out the individuals who are doing this this allows us to find out where they're coming from and where they're going to build the case to to then prosecute it when before this we were left to maybe trying to tail them which is Very difficult because also the organized criminal world is using technology. They have cameras everywhere They have apps they have encryptions they use You know like the chat apps that now it's extremely difficult and they have lookouts. They know where the cameras are. They're very organized these tools even with lowering our police laws we're at 7 69 right now because we can now maximize hours by using data it still allows us to be effective in in these types of enforcements um and i like all the things that the council and the public is bringing up they're very very valid concerns i know i don't ever want to say that i'm minimizing them and that's never my goal um

but if i could address some of the misinformation that's that's what i'm here for for sure mayor yeah and thank you chief because um especially for our new elected council members um one of the things that i you know, encouraged and worked on with the police department, the executive staff when I first got here in 2016, ten and a half years ago, was trying to figure out how to create a comprehensive video surveillance program, not to be, to create a police state, not to be on a constant surveillance without rules and regulations and restrictions, but know and understand that if you go to New York City, you go to any of your larger metropolitan cities, video surveillance is what helps our law enforcement fight crime or solve cold cases. There were cold cases in this city that hadn't been solved for 50 years. There were circumstances and situations where people would tell me. I think we had 21 cameras on the street. Only six of them worked. They were analog. They weren't digital. They did not have 360-degree rotation. And that video surveillance work that was implemented in the city served as a deterrent. And I believe that is one element, because there's many nuances to what got violent crime in the city of Newburgh down. That's one element of multiple elements. Of course, police community relations, getting foot patrol, having our police officers out on the beat and stuff like that. So there's different elements to. We had the highest crime rate and highest murder rate in the city of Newburgh per capita for years. And I remember 2010, which was 16 years ago, people really, like, people considered Newburgh Murderville. The 1990s, when I moved here, you know, 1991, it was really, really bad. And a lot of that came and, you know, turned around because if you got very, very high crime, high murder rates, high levels of homicide, businesses were leaving the city of Newburgh, banks all were leaving the city of Newburgh, people didn't feel safe, public safety was really, really, you know, it appeared that it wasn't a priority. And so, you know, that's why I was saying earlier, we really got to look at what are the compromises, what are some of the things that, you know, so we can demystify some of the misinformation. We can really look at these elements so that we can say, okay, no, we don't want a police state. No, we don't want constant surveillance. We don't want our video surveillance to be fed to ICE because we're a welcoming city and that resolution that we passed clearly defines what RPD can and cannot share with that federal entity because that is a federal entity. And so, you know, a lot of the fear mongering, a lot of the misinformation is out in our community as well. And I think if we do this responsibly, it could actually continue the downward trajectory of crime in the city of Newburgh because whatever this work does with the video surveillance it is a deterrent so that if someone is thinking they're going to commit a violent crime they'll think twice because there are consequences and accountability that go along with that because of the responsible surveillance work councilmember Monteverde

Thank you. So, Chief, I hear what you're saying about the surveillance and how it's helped you to bring down the crime rate. However, you know, from what I've been reading about Flock, it has, it does have, I think it's being sued, right, right now, and it does, they do share information. And, you know, our community has come here because they're concerned about the fact that they are being tracked, right? Now, you know, maybe we can look into another software program that does what Flock does, but they have that reputation of selling and sharing that information. And I don't think that, I don't know if you can actually guarantee to our community that that information is not going to be shared. People are actually afraid to go from, to come from Poughkeepsie if their work, if they have a job here, because I've actually heard this, And, you know, because they're being tracked. They're being tracked when they're, the minute they're on the road, the minute they cross the bridge, and then they come into the city. And they're undocumented. And they just don't want to take that chance. And I do not, I mean, I get it, right? And whatever we can do to prevent that, to prevent anybody in our community from being tracked and being taken away from their family. That's, you know, that's where I am with that.

Council member Stewart.

Thank you chief roller. So my concern is and this is where I'm conflicted. I hear the public and their concerns are absolutely valid flock is not a company or organization that I would want to secure any kind of do any kind of business with based off their track record so their concerns are absolutely valid. My concern as a city council person, I hear all of those things, but I don't want to put us at risk of not being able to solve crimes, identify people who have committed crimes, or assist us with finding people that may be on the street, missing persons or whatever it is. And we understand that this is the day and age of technology, that tracking is happening everywhere. Coming across the bridge, you're being tracked by E-ZPass, right? They have cameras on the state roads. They can find out who is coming through, all of those things. So tracking is happening. My issue is the responsibility and the morality issue of our police department. Let's say you leave today or tomorrow, right? That leaves it open for whomever is there to be able to utilize this opportunity. this technology in not a good way, right? In an abusive way. There may be somebody that would say, okay, we're going to give this information to ICE or whomever else that can abuse that information and also come in and utilize that against our own residents. But I don't want to see us being put at a disadvantage to protect the residents as well. i'm what i feel is if we don't have some sort of technology we do put ourselves at a disadvantage but my biggest concern is with this organization with this company uh... in the misuse and the abuse that they've already shown uh... i'd just as a city council person i'm trying to figure out how do i balance that with protecting the larger community uh... verses not having this and being at a disadvantage and not being able to do that.

So just a couple things, I'll try to address a few points that everybody brought up. Obviously very good points. First on the other agencies that may have canceled FLOC and then look to another vendor. Keep in mind a couple things. There's issues with canceling the contract if we put that aside. starting with another vendor for similar services will put the city of newberg back probably two to three years the permitting process with central hudson and verizon is very lengthy that's why we don't have all the flock cameras up at the time so to start over would be a two to three year reset that's just one point the another thing and i agree with you completely as technology is increasing abuse will increase, just nationwide, I'm speaking very general. And that's why as responsible municipality, as responsible person, as responsible council members, we want those checks and balances. I am so open to coming up with something that makes the community, the council feel better. That was why the police department supported that ICE resolution. Not only do we support it, but it was a lot of work to draft a brand new policy that met that resolution we drafted that i drafted that not only draft it but train the entire department in that and the department supports that not only does the department support that but then will be i'll be and if i am replaced whoever that next chief is is dictated by this policy as well they can't just go and change the policy They have to report this stuff to the council. Now if they go behind the council's back and they start reporting stuff out, these are chargeable offenses. So there's already one level of a chargeable, I mean like violation of city policy, not like criminal. But internally chargeable because the city of Newburgh has created at least one level of a checks and balances against ICE. Another level that we've done. I'm verbally saying we can come up with I can show it somehow we don't share our flock data whether we and that that just stands for you you may be right as far as I don't know what other municipalities are doing or sharing I will never know. And as technology grows, that will remain the same. And that's why what technology we use to provide what we feel is the best level of protection, balancing technology, surveillance, what's appropriate, we'll always add and have these discussions to add those checks and balances to help make as many people feel comfortable about it as possible. And if the council has proposals, ideas, spitball, right? Send them to the city manager. I am open. Yeah, like let's... If there's something else we can do, I don't know off the top of my head, but if there's those things, the checks and balances, I'm here for it. I support all that. Again, I want people to be safe and also feel safe. They're both very important.

So I just want to share just a personal, I want to share a personal story from someone that I know personally. There was an incident and based off of the cameras that the police used, This person was able to be apprehended, was able to be arrested, charged, and convicted in court. So, again, I'm conflicted with that because this person, I know personally, the way in which this incident happened and occurred, the police actually utilized the camera system that they have to be able to find the person to corroborate the incident that happened. And that was the way that they were able to, one, do the arrest. And it was a solid arrest because they had the camera footage to do that. And two, it corroborated the story of the victim and the witnesses. So again, my responsibility is to the greater community at large to make sure that everybody feels protected, everybody is protected, but also that everybody feels very safe and secure. But I just wanted to put that out there that... personally but personally i know that there are people that have been helped as victims by technology and i don't want our residents to be victims and not be able to get the support and services that they need because we don't have any kind of technology that's my concern we don't have enough we don't have enough officers

Any additional questions or comments. I also thank you Councilmember Stewart for that because we're all conflicted you're right you're 100% correct and that's why we have to have these ongoing discussions because Councilman Macklemore mentioned to me and I was like I don't even think about it we all have I don't know a person on my block that doesn't have a ring camera I have 2 or 3 ring cameras and yeah that is surveillance and there was a recent incident on my property that um by you know someone that was homeless that did some things and and you know it was involving my wife's car and her going into the car and things like that. If it were not for the ring camera surveillance, when we called police, we would not have been able to address it. And then my wife didn't want to press charges because the woman was homeless and had some mental health issues. But the point was, We were victimized. Her car was victimized. And we were able to address that situation appropriately because of the video footage. And I don't know anyone on my block or in our community that, especially homeowners and even landlords who own property, Everyone's got ring cameras. They talk to each other. If an incident happens, you know, on the West End or on Ward 2, you know, I can pull it up on my phone right now. My phone is ringing every time someone walks by my house, you know, and so I can pull it up and say, oh my God, someone's car got broken in. We see the people pulling the door handles and so on and so forth. A lot of times and we're all conflict conflicted because no one wants to be over surveyed. No one wants. We don't want a police state in Newburgh. But at the same time, like you said, there are circumstances where people were victims of crime. and the surveillance of their home or the streets have been, the police were able to hold people accountable. And my biggest thing is the deterrent because when they started adding surveillance and the shot spotter in the city of Newburgh, It was publicized. It was like, hey, ShotSpotter technology, something, as soon as you shoot a firearm, it hits those sensors. Our police can pinpoint where that shot, you know, rang out. In addition to the surveillance, the cameras on the streets, they can see and get eyes on the street before a human being can get there. So there's two sides to it. No one wants to be over policed. No one wants to be surveyed where their privacy is violated. But at the same time, we want to find that middle ground where public safety remains as a number one priority.

And just kind of echoing the mayor and the council member, it's almost like a standard now as technology has increased in 2026. Unless there's a BWC, or a surveillance camera, or a blink, or a ring, or a private security camera. Unless there's footage of something, that's what a jury wants to see. Otherwise, you're, maybe not. So these cameras all around, not just LPRs, but that is almost like the standard now. And without those, things are difficult.

Again, I want to share these examples of technology use because it's important for us to be able to make that decision. Two o'clock in the morning, people started knocking on people's doors. What happened? There was a child missing. 11 years old at the time. Everybody is panicking, calling the police. Everybody is coming out. First thing they do is go to people's cameras, right? They went to people's cameras. All around, everybody is tracking the child. First, we thought that the child was taken from the home because the door was left open. As all of the neighbors started to look at their cameras, we were able to see that the child wasn't taken. that the child actually walked on foot. And we saw where the child went based off of everybody's cameras. Everybody got up 2, 3 o'clock in the morning, checked their cameras, and they found the child a ways away. Child has special needs. That was a big, you know, it was, we utilized that. Another time, another child was autistic. He was like four. He ended up on South Street going through the wood. The reason why they found him is because somebody used their cameras that was in their backyard and saw that the child went to four years old special needs on South Street. So the technology is necessary. I just don't trust flock. I just don't know what that means in terms of us. I don't want people to be overly surveyed or overly policed. But I do know that we have a responsibility to the greater community to protect them as well. So we have to find out the balance.

So again, the council has to make a decision and has, you know, it is the council's decision. Yes, we just want to know if we can make a resolution. The threshold decision and the method and the means. So we can let the community know. So without more substance, it's going to be hard to bring a resolution to the floor if that's how you want to go.

We just want to do the resolution so we can see who's with the community and who's with ICE.

As simple as that.

Okay. All right. So I need a motion to go into executive session.

Yeah, because I'm not worried about that. They're not going to come get me with the community that we're supposed to be protected.

Okay. We'll see. We'll see. Any objections? Because I don't care. All right.

Yeah, you can move on. Let's go.