Town Council - Regular Meeting

They lit up like Christmas trees over here.

We're all green.

Is that one on already?

We are ready.

All right, so let's start with the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silence.

to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, and indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, can we start with roll call, please?

Ethan Maple?

Here.

Ryan Hartley? Here. Chad Melender? Here. Terry Reid here. And Bill Niemeyer is absent.

Thank you. Moving on to claims. Approval of invoice registrars 12222 and 1224.

I will make a motion that we approve the invoice registrars 122 and 1224 as provided in our backup material with appreciation of our team conquering software.

Well, I can't flip-conquer yet.

It's not the word.

Working through software.

We're going to get there. You'll get there. I won't. But I'll appreciate the fact that you do. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. But that's my motion.

I'll second. I'll second. Any discussion? I will say I appreciate the memorandums on there. Somebody brought that up last time, not complaining, but just calling out that it was different and it was quickly changed. So thank you guys for looking through that. It's helpful when we were through those. Any other comments all those in favor say, aye aye. Opposed and that passes now moving to the adoption of minutes.

I'll make a motion. We adopt the town council minutes from June 26.

moved in the second day of discussions adjustments all those in favor say aye aye aye all right moving on to public comments on anything that's already so we'll move right past that to old business and new business but don't have anything so we're going to jump right into council conversation is there anything that we need to talk about as council

I just want to note we did get the blocks moving there on Mill Street. So that happened.

Is everybody happy and that's all resolved?

Has there been a conversation with Ron Wally on the drive?

I'm still waiting to hear back from Bill on that to see if, because those two were communicating about it. The block's removed? Yeah.

That happened.

So it has been taken care of. Solving problems.

Very good. Do you want me to say my Duster Bay reminder? Sure. Our community cleanup day is Saturday, June 20th. Location is 4574 West 300 South from 9 to 2. And this year, we are not accepting some things that we did last year. And those things we are not accepting are batteries, gas, oil, paint, liquids, air conditioners, refrigerators, freezers, or Freon, computers, TVs, microwaves, stereos, and electronics, and yard waste. Not accepting any of that. However, the same day, I believe this is in Fortville, there is a collection event, the recycle event. but it's from 9 to noon that you can take those things for a charge.

And that's it.

Senate?

Legal updates?

Just one small issue.

I've been in a big game with Brian and Jim and county officials on the issue.

So that's all I have. Appreciate the information in the email that you sent.

Moving on to department reports. Jim?

Nothing this evening.

Outstanding. Chief?

I just have an employee issue we can maybe help you guys help us out with. So our new employee that started in February, the new officer He's worked for five months without his HSA benefit given to him. We have the high deductible HSA plan. So normally we pay it out in January, and we also pay it out in July. But he started in February. So for five months, he hasn't had an HSA cushion. So I'm asking for the council to approve, go ahead and prorate that five-month period that he has worked for us and get him caught back up, if that makes sense.

So it pays out.

So at January, they get the first $750, and then in July, they get the additional $700. So they get $1,500 for the year for that HSA money. So we normally are paying out in January, and we also pay out in July. So what I'm asking for the council is to go ahead and cover what he's already worked, the five months that he's already been with us, to catch him up. Then he'll start on the rotation with every other employee in July for the next one.

Do we pay ahead or behind? Yes. So is there precedent? Let me ask that.

The precedent is that it's never been prorated for any other employee. It's always been whenever you start, you get your first HSA amount in July or in January.

So if he started in February, wouldn't July be his first one?

Well, not technically. Honestly, with the IRS comparability rules, since every employee gets the $1,500, we have to be comparable. Even if he's a mid-year start or a mid-time start, according to their rules and regulations, we actually have to play catch-up and get him caught up for the time that he is. Now, we could go back, I think, since he started in February. I believe March 1st is actually the day that we would have to, but he already worked the full month of February. So I'm asking to pick up. You are up to what he's done in June. So it'd be 625 if we prorate it instead of the full 750. Because right now my other officers picked up January, picked up 750 for now until June. So they've already been paid for that first part of that HSA. They'll get paid again in July for their next 750 up until the end of December. So look at their $1,500. So the only thing is I want to make sure that we as a town don't violate the IRS code section 4980G, which basically states if we don't do it, we could actually get a penalty on the town side by not keeping him comparability with the other employees.

And we pay it twice a year, and I think the county, Ryan, you might back this up, I think they pay a little every month. Because I think originally they were paying it at the beginning of the year that somebody left in March when that money was gone. So they started paying by the month kind of.

Yeah, so yeah, they that's the way they do it now. I don't actually don't carry any county's insurance anymore, but but that's the way we used to get a lump sum and now they break it up because of that. You get a monthly distribution.

So usually Bob and I are pretty well aligned on things. In this case, we don't necessarily agree with this. I say we've never done that for any other of the employees. If that's what we're going to do for this employee, we need to also look at the employees that have started mid-year in previous years since we, you know, if you're going to make a change, then most likely on a full

the same for everybody yes and no I agree if there's somebody that started within like the last calendar year or so right that makes sense going back further than that I think what we can do is establish the precedent going forward but going back four or five years something like that doesn't make a ton of sense and I think we could talk about those as they come up but it makes sense to in my opinion, to make them whole for it because it's paid out in those time frames. Usually if they're employed during that time frame in my past, they've been paid for it. So I would be in support of the 265, and if there's anybody else in the last year that has encountered this as well, look at that. 625. 625.

Yeah, so when we hired Alex the last time, that's when we immediately started the insurance at the HSA program, started with him as well. He got his first pay.

Now he started mid-January. So, you know, we need to, in that case, also do that.

Yeah, we're talking three people, right? Yeah, I believe so.

And Isaac?

Brian.

Brian?

Yeah, I mean, it's the right thing to do if we're...

It just makes it... It's more complicated to run payroll.

And I just want to make sure that we don't get a penalty because I think it's like a 35% excise tax penalty on the, yeah.

Do we have anybody in those individuals who are also then maxing out? Because you can only max out so much. So if we were to come back.

No, you max out a lot higher numbers.

Well, I know that, but if they add to it, right? Right. So if the individual adds to it, they can only add so much to an HSA.

But that's their personal responsibility.

But they add it to the employee, so they're lumped together. So the employee... is lumped together with the employer's amount. And you can only get so many. So if we do this, we would need to make sure that our employees are not... That's their responsibility.

That's their federal tax responsibility.

I don't believe anybody's hit that close.

Nobody will. Yeah. I try to get really close to it.

Right.

Yeah. But that's not the responsibility of the employer. That's the responsibility of the employee.

Yeah, but what he's saying is if we paid them right now and they have automatic deductions to take them to women, we would need to have that conversation with them.

Well, there's nobody who has a deduction that way.

Zach, do you have any insight into this?

Yeah, I think it's called the IRS comparability.

Yeah, rule requires employers to make contributions for all comparable participant employees in the same class. For example, full-time employees, part-time employees at the exact dollar amount or the same percentages of the high deductible plan.

Is this something you have?

one officer but is this something that at our next meeting if there are other employees that we need to look at you can bring us that information and those figures over the last when I think going a year from when it was brought to our attention make sense a year ago like from okay I don't know I would say if there's somebody who's close let's talk about it I think you guys named out four people yeah Depending on when they started, it may be different, and then we can look at that going forward. I don't know legally. I mean, this basically says we have to pay them the same. I don't think it talks about when we have to start paying them, but I haven't read the whole thing, so I wouldn't know.

Yeah, so like the new officer who didn't work in January, we could prorate. that 750 divided by the six months he would do 625. so you wouldn't pay him for the january because he didn't work for us and then starting in july he would again start with the new cycle with all the other employees picking up the additional 750 on top of that why have we not done this before just came to our attention the other day nobody's ever raised it as a problem every other employee has just accepted that hey in january and july we get

If somebody started January 3rd, he's not going to miss the whole six months, which I wouldn't feel that would be fair either.

I would say maybe moving forward, because you're going to hire employees mid-year, end of year. It won't be July. It won't be January. We need to make sure we put something down or make a note of it that we prorate the employee that starts from this point forward.

I think that only makes sense to set the precedent now. Let's fix it.

It just makes it more complicated.

I'm sure it is behind people and making sure they're taken care of the right ways.

And I'm all for that. Do we need to look at doing this monthly instead of January and July? No. no no it's so complicated as it is if anybody would like to come and run payroll and see and feel what it is so let's not do it more often than twice a year yeah like i said i don't think anybody's saying that it's it's an easy process i think it's something that was brought to our attention and we can easily say hey

Going forward, we've hired four people in the last year. I'm sure if we go back further than that, we don't hire that many people here. Maybe as we grow, we will. And at that point, we'll have a payroll department. I don't know, right? So my opinion is that we prorate this, and then at the next meeting, and even before then, we can get information on anybody else that we believe would be part of this and make that. The second question I don't know. Can we just add it to the July payout? No, they're in past July.

No.

Why?

It's June. I haven't paid for July.

You haven't paid for July.

So you could add it to the July one.

So you pay in June and December.

January and July.

That's. Confused on what you're confused about. Can we just add it to the July? Yes.

Oh, yes. Added to the next.

Yes. Yep.

It's that part.

Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, we just need to make them whole with the 1st, 5 months that there's no written policy.

Yes, it's in the salary ordinance and it'll have to be.

Okay, so we can fix it.

We'll fix it. I will make a motion that we make the new employee starting February whole by adding 625. to his HSA payment in July. Additionally, that we look at anybody that the department heads feel should also be looked at and correct those as well. Second. We've been seconded. Any further conversations? All those in favor say aye.

Aye. Opposed? Aye.

All right, fantastic. Yvonne?

I don't think I have anything other than the recycling event this Saturday went real well.

It did. Thanks for everybody who volunteered that time. I appreciate that. All right. Public comments, five minutes on any topic. If you've got something to share with us, please come up, state your name and your address or organization.

That'd be you, Stanley.

So what exactly does this ask for?

I would say, well, the town has all their own ordinances for private property as well.

What are other normal violations that you would encounter? Like me, if my light doesn't turn on, they send me a letter telling me I have to fix it, right? They could enforce that just like they could enforce any parking thing within the HOA, correct?

there's also things within the governance. How do you enforce those, though? What's your protocol if somebody wants to put up a shed or somebody puts the wrong fence up? What do you do?

So one, we send them a violation letter, and then we follow up with the answer. Have you done that with the parking issues the same way you would with any other issue?

I'm trying to understand why it's necessary if you already have the authority to do the things. Who are going to go to our ordinance pages and read this and be like, oh, okay. I don't see that happening.

I mean, it's an anti-clarification. So, I mean, if it's back or whatever the balance of terms was, it's not appropriate. I was just bringing it up to try to partner with the town. Again, making sure that we weren't doing something that was in contradiction. I appreciate that. We're just trying to partner. So, just because you're on Spencer, say, well, Obviously, the town has limited resources to be able to fully enforce all our ordinances. And so we're just, again, trying to partner and trying to provide for it. So you're right. It's not absolutely necessary to change down the path that I've described.

How would the path change if we change the language?

Zach, what say you?

I see both sides of it, honestly.

I understand where he's coming from, where

I certainly don't mind putting it in and drafting something. I work for you all and not the HOA, so I'll defer to the council what you want to do.

Honestly, when I bought my house and my subdivision, I signed those pages stating that I understood all the rules that the HOA covenants described. So If I leave my trash can out in front of my garage and I get a letter, that's on me. I know that. I know what I signed when I bought my house. And there's got to be some responsibility held there and accountability by the homeowner. And I don't feel like we should change our ordinance. I also don't feel like we should pay you to change our ordinance for an HOA issue. I think this is more of an HOA neighborhood thing that needs solved. through your HOA, I would say you continue down this path and follow the same procedures you did or do for any other issue you have.

Are you asking the town to enforce it?

I'm just asking whether

If we get that call, we do. We respond, yes. But you've got to remember, Copperstone has 15-foot driveways, roughly. So a husband, a wife, and a kid, and the entire driveway is full because they can't have sheds, so cars are on the streets. So do you go and do you ticket every car that's parked on the street when a family event comes over? I'm sure you have family parked on the street. Correct?

I didn't get that.

Right, as I'm saying. So it's not just, you know, if you have an issue, like we had the semis that were in there that were parking. The officers came in because they were parking on our streets. We had them remove it. Now they did park in their own driveway afterwards, not per us, but that no longer violates the town ordinance. That violates their HOA. So we will come if it's called. Again, it's tough to enforce parking in Copperstone because there are so many cars on the streets.

What's the biggest issue that you're finding that contradicts our parking ordinances as they currently exist? We don't have an ordinance versus parking on the street.

We do.

Well, we have such an old ordinance that was way back in the day that from midnight to 6 a.m. that vehicles shouldn't be parked on the street for a period of more than two hours at any time. But now if they move it forward 30 feet, their two hours resets. The problem is we don't have the manpower to go out and start chalking every tire that's in Copperstone.

Yeah, one street, all the mailboxes are on one side.

The next street over, they're on both sides.

And is your hope that the HOA can make it known to your residents that parking on the street should be guest parking or temporary parking?

It's supposed to be temporary and not in person.

So, you know, I mean, what I appreciate is your desire to make sure your neighborhood is safe for families walking, for the streets to be open, for buses, for emergency equipment, for all of those things. So I appreciate, you know, that desire, and I think that would serve the community well.

less inclined just to add language for the sake of propping that up without any really additional that doesn't do anything more other than says I feel like this is an issue that we deal with in the county if we have a speeding complaint somebody wants the speed limit sign posted or the speed limit lowered thinking that that will be the magic bullet you know if it's 50 mile an hour they want at 45 They think if we put a 45 mile an hour speed limit sign up there, it's just going to solve everything. That's not the magic bullet. I feel like if we just add this language in here, I, I don't know that it's going to help your issue. You may fall back on it and say, hey, look, you know, this is this is a town's ordinance as well. People are still going to park industry. I think your best recourse coming up is hidden where it hurts. you start, they start incurring fines, that sends a message. So I feel like that's probably going to be the most effective thing moving forward.

No, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I think the root cause of this isn't going to get solved by this ordinance, though. You know what I mean? Like, if it's already in your covenants, right, then it's enforceable.

push of it.

The other piece is if the town does that, then the town's going to pay Zach to write that, right? So... There's one thing of opening this to every inch of way to say, hey, I want this language, I want this language. If it's not necessary, do we need to do that? And then additionally paying for their services to do it. Yeah, I think I would support you guys. I mean, July 1st, you're 15 days away-ish of being able to enforce that with fines, and I think that's probably the fastest way to solve it. And if SHEDS is another option, then we can definitely bring that to the Planning Commission and talk to that as well.

I'll add one other element. If you talk to other homeowners associations and they feel like this is a problem, then I would be willing to reconsider language like this if it was an additional issue within our town and not just Copperstone. If you were to reach out to other homeowners associations and feel like something like this would be helpful, then We have multiple homeowners associations that see this as a concern, and that may be something that I'd reconsider.

Thank you. Brenda will have all those contacts for the other HOAs.

Yeah. Any other public comments?

I think the little girl in front wanted to say something, but I'm not sure.

Do you have any other art to share?

No, not right now.

Will you share it later?

Oh, I'm going to. Okay.

All right. If there is nobody else, we'll move on to council comments. Bill's not here, so we'll move straight on to Brian.

I just want to thank Sienna for her amazing rendering of me that she did before the meeting. I think she did a fantastic job. Well done.

Well done.

That's all I have.

Okay, so back to the dumpster day. I said what we won't accept, but the items we will accept are furniture of all sizes, construction, debris, anything that's manageable by hand, heavy items, large items, and we will accept tires for an extra fee based on size. and we still need some volunteers for saturday muscles like five or six guys so the other thing is um fry thank you so much for all your work with the people that are violating our ordinances the letters we've generated and sent out um did a very nice job There are a lot of people trying to get the town cleaned up. And I appreciate your efforts and what Zach is helping. And then lastly, I always talk about birthdays every month. And we already celebrated our Careless Leaders birthday last time, the last meeting. And then we have two other June birthdays. And that's Jim Robinson and Tom Smith.

and i believe that's all i have that's not all she has but excuse me um i want to wish our new pal softball team congratulations on state running up um good season especially at the end part a good run through the tournament And kind of in line with that, continuing to wish all of our educators and teachers a good restful summer as they try to relax before they gear back up. Also want to – we have a council chat – well, not before, but we do have a council chat on July 3rd is the next council chat. And so keep that in mind. That's a Friday morning at 8 a.m., just open conversation for community members to have dialogue with – Myself and another council member. That's all I have.

I cannot make that one because I will be out of town. But yes, please come talk to Ethan. Talk to Ethan. I don't have anything pertinent. I appreciate everybody coming out today. I know there's a lot of weather concerns that are out there. So please be safe going home. And with that, I would accept a motion.

I'll make a motion to adjourn.

All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed?