Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, thank you. Uh we're back after a long break and this is uh the planning board meeting of February 3. Um we have a fairly short uh agenda. Our first item is a public hearing. Is this the we're first time going to a public hearing? Yes. So is there a motion to open the public hear? Well, first of all, is there a motion to open the meeting? Motion to open the meeting. Second. All in favor? I. It's been a long time. Is there a motion now to open the public hearing on Mouldering? This is 76 Work Lake Road. Motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I. Okay. Bumpy start, but we got through it. Sorry.

Okay. So, this is a public hearing. We've seen this application a number of times. Um, I guess we can take comments from our professionals first and then if the applicant wants to uh supplement uh uh any of the changes and bring us up to speed, that would be very helpful. So, Sabrina, I don't think you have any specific comments on this. Uh, everything is is comp all my comments have been satisfied. So, there's no outstanding comments from me. Okay. Um Jeff, I think you had some comments and I think we've made some changes in the resolution that you had suggested.

Yes. So we did have a couple of comments just adds up to the drawing. Very very uh minor. It's all in the it's all in the resolution. Um there was one minor change to the to the latest version of the resolution that went out and that was just uh it had to do with the indent. Um, uh, comment 17 actually be comment 16-6.3. That's all. It's a It's a note regarding, uh, as um, I just that that it should be a note on the drawing. It looks like it's it's a it's a something that's supposed to be for um, prior to BP, but it's actually supposed to be a note on the drawing, which has to be done prior to BP.

Okay, good. Uh Dennis, you had some comments?

Sure, Mr. Chairman. Um so you I really it there's one comment and the rest is just clarifications cuz I I think as you recall, so since you're saving a couple of those trees, obviously the replacement requirements start start to diminish. So in this case, uh I just figured it was worth worth it to to sort of document he's now like for this project dipped below the the 10 tree replacement requirements. So it really re reduces the um sort of restrictions as to what you can and can't do in terms of distribution of species and you know being able to use only one species. So, it I just wanted to sort of lay that out cuz in consideration of this application and then I know I referenced um a prior tree removal permit uh that was issued in uh 2023 which had some replacement requirements. So now in total uh between the two it's it's a dozen trees. So for this it's less than 10. And in looking at the plan and in speaking with uh Mr. voice the architect since there is so much planting on the plan you know and this kind of sort of got uncovered during the ERB uh referral. it kind of made sense to only really focus on for the purposes of what is like permit condition driven if we could just sort of tease out those plants in those areas because obviously you know you're free to landscape and not require a permit for that and and therefore like all those additional plantings really shouldn't come under the rules of of of bonding etc. So, so we were able to uh he was able to do that on on the submission and I I accepted that the trees that are going in and where they're going in uh that totals 13 individuals. So, he exceeds the tree replacement by one for both this

application and the prior tree removal permit. And then I I like the um uh approach with respect to uh adding because you know there isn't a ton of of lower uh layer in the uh sort of in in the lower canopy. So there's like a lot of shrubs and herbs and a lot of that is part of the uh you know by the wetland uh you know delineation area. So that really is like the mitigation. So I think that was a good you know hard break. So um I just recommended that you know to the board that obviously only these plants you know sort of be considered you know when when and that's kind of how we wrote the resolution at the draft resolution to to be considered for the required uh bonding and uh maintenance monitoring period. Um my only comment which I I had left a message with Mr. voice cuz I know he was u wanted to talk to me about you know I I didn't know at first when I usually when I see two herbivy forms of protection uh around trees um at least for this area I I I thought maybe it was an eitheror because I I didn't necessarily see the need for both um and he had uh uh I think left a message for me or said something in an email uh about spec specifically the rap Um, so I'd like to just have a further discussion with him because I I'd like to see what his experiences are because when I when he was talking about um concerns for the bark and the wrap, there's a uh there's like a phenomenon like suncald that could happen to trees sometimes in winter uh maybe even in early spring. But but that's like due to some fairly wide temperature ranges in a short duration and we're kind of in a temperate area and we we don't seem to experience that as much. I mean, you know, I know it's colder in the morning and heats up during the day, but like if you look at the temperatures in the

plain states and Dakotas and whatever, those are like 50 to 60° swings sometimes. And that's, you know, was the concern. term, but he brought up an interesting point uh about like if it, you know, it just seems a little fine to me, but if a tree is at a nursery, um if the north, you know, they could I guess mark the north side of that tree, but then when you replant it, if the north side is now has another exposure, does that necessarily come up against a little bit more uh stress from from the heat of the sun that it didn't in its prior x number of years of actually growing at the nursery. So um I I haven't had that discussion yet. Obviously this is a minor of minor changes if if they you know means the plans wouldn't have to change and you know it would just be a slight amendment to the resolution saying

fine if you want to want to stick with both. Um I still think there's a riskreward in using the the wraps but if if they're willing to you know based on his experience accept that then I would have to accept that. Okay. Great. And and I think um during the course of these discussions we we've uh answered the ERB's concerns, you know, now that we focused really on the regulated activities.

Yes. Yeah. And they they felt, you know, obviously it was a purpose and need, you know, justified the approach and and they felt generally it was, you know, more of a of a minimal type of type of project proposal relative to, you know, some of the other things that they see and you guys see, right? Okay. Great. Thank you. Super. Any uh a question for questions for the Sure. Uh Dennis, just for my education, the 1300 potted plants, are those plugs or are they like one gallon plants? Just No, they're they're they're they're they're going to be in pots. I forgot what what the size is.

So they're like like a 4 inch little pot. Yeah, they're going to come as Okay, that's that's a lot, right? Yeah, it is. Okay. Yes. Just checking. Thanks. It is a robust plant. It's a robust planting plan. Yeah. I mean, not just this, but overall, yeah, it should look great. I mean, with that quantity. Well, he Yes. The applicant assured me in 2023. He says, "I'll definitely get you those trees. We definitely have a plan to do a lot of planting." And you didn't lie. I have to admit that. So, absolutely true. Wow. Only three years ago. It's been a journey. Any other comments, uh, questions, uh, issues that you have for us or, you know, I had just a couple questions. You want to come up? Unfortunately, you have to come up to the Absolutely. um what we call our deis.

Yeah. Yeah. And just give us your name and stuff. Jason Walder. I'm the property owner. Okay. I think my primary question is the the document that was sent was pretty clear, but as we start to implement the plan, there may be some changes that need to happen, right? Species availability. Maybe we got to move them all wall one way versus the other way. What's the latitude for like a field call versus what we need to come back to the board for? And maybe there are rocks underneath. we can't stabilize a wall there. We need to move it one way or the other or maybe we decide to leave a tree up, right? And so that would have sort of a cascading effect. So I'm just trying to figure out like where the latitude is there to work with the individual departments to come to a resolution on that. I

I think the key is is to work with Dennis and he'll be able to make those field calls. Okay. If there's something that he feels is uh you know significant and he has to blow the whistle and we have to come back. Y I I think that would be unlikely frankly. Okay. But, uh, if there's something that that triggers that, so I I leave it to Dennis, but I think Dennis is the person that, you know, you need to talk to. Yeah. I what the chairman said, you know, uh, things like I mean, I'll just give you egregious examples. If you have to go into the wetland, you're going back to the planning. Like I I that's not a field call. That's right. But to your point,

yes, there's and you know, Michael knows this too. I mean, you have a plan and then, you know, comes time to planting. And he calls me and he's like, "Dennis, we're having trouble sourcing this. Dennis, I saw the available nursery stock. I don't want my client to, you know, use this. It doesn't look good." Okay. So, let's get acceptable substitutes. If you come in with everything, you know, from Asia, I'm going to like I I I can't accept that. If it's all native to North America, I certainly can. And that's Yeah, you're dealing with living things, so understandable.

Y. And then the last question I have just because I didn't fully understand, it seems like the steep slopes permit lasts for three years and then the other ones are for one year for the permit. So depending on how we work this out with the landscape architect and the construction agency, I would imagine we'll do it over a couple planting seasons. Is there any time frame other than those permits that I need to be aware of with the board? No. it and we're limited with our permits under our regulations for one year in some of those, but it's very easy to come back for an extension, send a letter and just say, "Look, we need an extra another six months, another year, whatever it is." All right. Good. You don't have to come back for another whole hearing, you know. Yeah, it's just a letter format. Yeah. Right. Okay. Those are my only questions. Okay. Okay. Thanks. Great. Any other questions? Anyone?

Jennifer, any questions? Nope. Okay. All right. Um, is there a motion to two typos. Oh. Oh, well that's the resolution. We have to close the public hearing. Is there a motion to close the public hearing? Motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I. So, we have a resolution now before us. Um, and uh we can we can talk about that. So, Jeff, you had some questions or um page four, line 32, there's a a T just floating in the middle of the line right there. Plan face T. Got it.

The bigger one was 60. That's page six, line 43. There's a reference to the developer may submit. I think it should be the applicant. Yep. Thank you. That's all I got. Okay. Got a comment on page one, the line 54. Uh we can take out the word actually. Okay. Any other thoughts, questions? Anyone? If not, is there a motion to adopt the resolution as amended? Motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I I

Okay, we're all set. Great.

Okay, good luck with it. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Our second item is a referral from the town board. This is a discussion item for the board and and our staff. This is in connection with a proposed uh battery energy storage system uh regulation. Um uh there is a proposed law uh that we are beginning to look at or the town is beginning to look at. Um so I'll turn it over to Sabrina. can lead us through uh the discussion and and the background on the law. Um, as you probably saw, I I put together what I thought were some changes, what I thought would be preferred changes, but just for conversation purposes that I sent out last night. So, um, we can talk about those as well. But, Sabrina, why don't you, uh, lead us on this and and give us some of the information and background.

Sure. So, um, town staff have been working with, um, emer local emergency services and tried to come up with a battery energy storage law.

Um, you know, there have been some issues that have been raised by fire personnel regarding fighting fires for battery energy storage systems. And there's been concern about citing um tier 2 and three which um just to give you a sense of the size tier 2 is less than 600 kilowatt um which is equivalent to like um a tractor trailer container. Um and tier 3 is greater than or equal to 600 kilowatts which is many tractor trailers. Um, Sabrina, can I ask your question?

Yeah. Just to help educate me, what are these things for? Are these for people to charge their cars in their driveway? Are these for people to store energy in basically go to

I was just going to tell you right now the town does permit what's considered a tier one. And in the law it talks about flow batteries, acid, all types of batteries, the lithium, it means your car ch your EV car chargers in your garages or on your properties, those are all tier one. We also allow tier one battery energy storage that is consistent with a solar project, right? So you'll see on the side of homes the Tesla chargers or another charger. Those are all tier one chargers. And that a tier one charger is really um anything um up to I think 90 kilowatts. Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong. Um but what's so so we already permit tier one. The issue with the tier 2 and tier three is that they're really commercial applications.

And is tier one typically just all residential or can tier one be commercial also? Um tier one is not typically commercial. It's mo they're mainly residential applications. Okay. Sabrina, um before we go on to tier two and tier three, are there any reporting regulations even for tier one so that the fire department is put on notice that your home may have

whatever it is, you know, a Tesla backup battery. Again, when I went to that uh WOF um session on this, the the the responders there were talking about even uh those kinds of batteries can be very difficult and uh can be a big surprise to firefighters if they arrive at a place and uh there's a fire and there's one of those. So um I I wonder is there something that we have in our current law where people are permitted to have it obviously but are they rep required to report you know the presence of these uh to the local fire department?

We we actually have permits on all of them building permits on all of them. Um I do know that there is communication between um you know our building inspector is the town fire marshal um you know so so there's that kind of tiein with the emergency services. I'm not sure if there's a registration or a notification to the local fire department. Um that's something that I can check on.

There's a placard on the on the meter pan. So if you have solar or batteries, there's a red red placard that goes on typically in a fire. the first thing they do is they shut the power off. So that's the first thing and then they know that they'll look for the automatic the big red button to push which just deenergizes everything and those are usually in a position that are and they're approved by Tom. Okay. Okay. But they're usually located someplace where the fire department are panic know where to go. Typically like mine is right next to Mine's right outside next to the battery. Right outside next to the battery. Okay. I just wonder if it's if if it's not, you know, again, not to to generate fees or anything else, but just for the safety of the fire department, first responders, just to let

they pretty much know when they're going where they're going. Does our Does our town have a automated system where like when they're at a fire, they can pull up the building plans? Anything that's digital? Yes. All right. That's another way that they like they show up, they have I don't know if there's a note like on there, but when the fire department shows up, they have the plans. So, they god forbid need to go into a house. I don't know if our volunteer fire department has that type of technology. The building inspector certainly does. Okay. But you said you have to pull a building permit to install these. So at least they have to be inspected installed. Yeah. An electric permit

now. And do we know I you may not know the answer. Is there currently a mechanism when somebody pulls a permit does this get triggered and does Tom send it to the fire department? I don't believe so. Okay. But that might be a recommendation that my office Tom is is the town's fire marshal and in my office we have a part-time um fire personnel who does fire inspection. So there's constant conversation between my office and the fire chiefs regarding projects. Well, it might be something that we recommend um just as an internal procedure. doesn't have to be in the law that it would just be a a best practices

and con I know they already do it and con's aware because the back feeding so you can't connect until Conet approves so there's a notation so god forbid there's a fire they're showing up also to shut your gas off and and whatnot they know so there I think there's a lot of redundant not you know knowledge or notifications but I don't think it hurts to yep make sure that when as part of our building permit the letter goes to the or whatever to the fire department. I'm going to ask right now. I'll try and get an answer for you. Okay. Yep. Well, it's good to know we have all this information. It's just making sure it gets coordinated. When I got my wood burning stove, they told me they were going to notify the town that I purchased a stove to make sure I pulled a permit to get the stove installed. Oh, yeah.

So, I assume they did and I got my permit and Tom came and looked. So,

I'll get an answer in the next minute or two, I'm sure. Um so regardless um we have this law. This law um is in need of defining um the tier one and tier 2 and tier three systems. It currently does not do that. Um it was other public comments have come in and we actually need to make that change to the law. Right now the law um recognizes tier one. We do permit tier one battery energy storage systems. What it does, it prohibits tier 2 and tier three basically because of the residential nature of our community. The fact that um the fact that we um don't have a lot of land uh that's not affiliated with a neighborhood and the concern about firefighting. um what happens um you know access to that, how it affects the neighbors, that type of thing. And also our sensitive lands, our wetlands and our steep slopes. So this law does not allow tier 2 and tier three

is part of our review to entertain you allowing two and three. Okay. So So two and three just prohibited period. Prohibited period. I did get a response from the building inspector. He said there is no requirement currently to notify the fire chiefs, but he they do they have been communicating about creating a list. Is this where's the origin of the draft of this law? Was this disseminated to towns and to utilize as a template or is this the actual law? This is the actual law.

Okay. Yeah, that this law um the town attorney drafted this law, you know, after uh workshopping with staff and um the town board. This is the attorney's um takeaway crafting it. Okay.

To Jeff's point though, are there sources from the county, from other towns that are behind this as well? Are we borrowing? Other town other towns have prohibited tier 2 and tier three. Uh the county uh issued a referral memo and they were not happy that we are banning or prohibiting tier 2 and tier three. Um the state does have a model ordinance regarding battery energy storage systems um to allow them but all of your surrounding municipalities have banned them. That's what you're doing. Even Even the larger municipalities have banned them too

like White Plains. Have the larger municipalities like White Plains, Yoners or just No. Okay. No, more of the Pleasantville, Brier Cliff, those guys. Yeah. Bedford, Yorktown. So this but this law has been passed as and is there are or you're asking for our comments?

It has not been passed. So just to let me back up a little bit. Whenever any legislation is proposed by the town board or to the town board, that legislation has to be referred to two entities. One is the Westchester County Planning Board. The second is the Newcastle Planning Board. So you will review all legislation that is proposed that the town board is considering. Okay. What happens is you are expected to um either you don't have to but you are to write a memo in support your critique however you're feeling about the legislation things that you might want to change. You write that memo back to the town board and they consider that as they are holding the public hearing for the law. The town board has set the public hearing giving the public an opportunity to speak on this legislation on February 10th.

Okay. So it's a draft. Yeah, this is a draft. It says draft on it. So if you make suggestions, they may incorporate those suggestions. Okay, let's call it a working draft, right? And for example, I mean, Sabrina already uh set forth some of the problems that tier one, tier two, tier three are not defined in the law. So that's got to be done.

Um it was I lost me. I mean, I have no background in this whatsoever other than watching uh my background in this is limited to watching channel 12 and fires up in Orange County and Yoners, etc., where uh buses have been on fire and then hearing from local residents just saying that u they're very concerned about the environmental impacts of the fires, the suppression chemicals used to put out the fires, uh their drinking water, etc. uh which seems to make good sense to me uh having had some uh experience and knowledge of uh fire suppression of chemicals. They're they're tough. So uh and again I went to that wump thing and um the fellows there the these guys were all dressed up in their fire gear as they gave the presentation. So, it was um uh very dramatic, but they really emphasized how uh how difficult it was to to tackle these fires and how dangerous it was for fire departments to to tackle these fires. And of course, the uh long-term impacts of some of these fires. And and by the way, I they just come and watch them. They really don't put them out.

Yeah. And those are the lithium ion ones. Um

Yeah. So okay I just overall I want to from a standpoint right so New York last year they had a working group at the state level where they had recommendations and they ultimately incorporated them into the 2020 five fire code of New York state right section 1207 deals with this stuff from a regulation standpoint I would think it would be a slippery slope if we head into something other than saying follow the New York State Fire Code from a safety perspective cuz we're a planning board sighting things like that that falls under our purview, but I don't think any of us are knowledgeable enough uh as it relates to the actual safety side of things uh in this draft here. And just as a comparison, right, if you have a Tesla in your garage, it's 58 to 130 kilowatt hours in those batteries. The Ford Lightning is 98 to 131. The big one is the new Escalades, 205 kilwatt hours. So, if you have that new Escalade, you have a massive lithium ion battery parked in your in your garage or wherever you're parking it. So, just be mindful of realistically what has a higher pro probability of having an issue. a vehicle that's driving on the road that could get a nick from a rock underneath to hit the battery or something that's stabilized that is protected by whether it's if it's in an area where it's where the batteries are or where there's where there's potential um impacts, right? There's in the code there's requirements for things like that. Um but as it relates to section was it under under one so top top of page two it goes through the battery the the battery energy storage for one to two family residential dwellings.

Mhm. Um so we have 40 kilowatt hours inside in essence

80 kilowatts outside is general demarcation. Um, is that an aggregate or is that in in in a single? And it goes also into section B here. For instance, the Tesla mega the Tesla power walls, they're in 13.5 kilowatt hour chunks. You can stack three of them in front of each other. So that would be 40.5, which means because we're 0.5 over, you can't put them out there. Um, you know, that that's just something and Anchor has these other ones. Like there's all these new groups that are coming out with these power power walls that can be interior or exterior. I think we need to be mindful of the numbers that we put in here and make sure that we're not preventing residential folks from doing it. Now, what would trump that though is the code that they approved. I think has where some of these numbers came from. Oh, these numbers you think came from

these numbers in in table one, those are the numbers that if you're below these, this code doesn't apply. It's section uh 1207.1.3 which has the has the list of all those basically if it if the energy storage system has capacity exceeding the value shown in this table, they need to comply with this section. That's what so according to the state code these anything below these numbers you don't have to follow this at least that's that's my read I'll leave it to the to the attorney and whatnot I just so I think and I'll now that I know this is draft Sabrina I'm flying to Phoenix in the morning I'll have plenty of time to type up type up uh some comments to this um and then I don't think that that our town should necessarily have tier 2 or tier three but I do think that that's going to be part of larger commercial developments going forward.

Can you tell us what a tier two or tier three Sabrina? What's the application for a tier two? It's it's larger battery backups. So but for what? So let's take the tropical crossings for instance. Okay. Each one of those houses could have a 13.5 Tesla power wall connected to the back of it. Okay. Or when the mate feed comes in from Con, there's got there's going to be a large transformer out there. Right next to it, you place one of these so that if there's a power outage, if the grid goes down, it's un uninterrupted power to tap crossings that goes right back in. They go B there's an automatic transfer switch at the transformer versus one at each at each house.

Also, what is now happening is on the load in the load um shaving. So if the line that's going down Bedford is overt taxed, instead of forcing brown outs and blackouts, they can reduce the load onto on that line by starting to um to discharge this battery to the people in tropical crossings.

So from a commercial development side, these are starting to be placed with buildings to provide the load the peak load peak shaving in essence um that the grid requires. And there's going to be some instances where these boards, we're not going to have any say because the federal government's going to come in and say that this is a matter of for the for the grid and it's going to go under FK and it's going to go under the the federal stuff where they'll just preempt local zoning code. And would the alternative have been just a generator, a backup generator, diesel to give power of something? Is like this replacing in some you have a big battery there of data and you could tap into that instead of firing up a diesel generator for something.

Bridging into my professional life. Yes, please. America, United States does not necessarily have an issue of generation. It has an issue that generation is out in the middle of the of the middle of the country or away from population centers because nobody wanted smoke stacks and coal fired plants. Yes, we have a transmission line issue where the pipes that bring the electrons from generation to where we are are overt taxed and under um uh they're under sized at this point. They're old.

And they're old. Well, luckily, you know, you know, so long as as uh as you take care of them, I mean, copper and copper lines, these things are not these are not the things that like in our in our house. Um they're well a lot better insulated and they'll last a long time. There's reconductoring that's starting to happen where they're taking these superconductors and starting to hang them on these on these transmission lines to not have to put new transmission lines in

by just putting more down those pipes. And then there's even technology that they're using in California where it has a little diode that go or little ball that goes onto the um transmission line. It can sense the wind, can sense the temperature outside, the temperature of the actual line. And on a cool day where there's not a lot of wind, PG&E will shoot a heck of a lot more power down their transmission lines now because it's safe. But at the same time, when it's windy and it's hot, they'll shut that line down to prevent a forest fire.

So you but your observation is that even though we have this proposed legislation that is prohibiting tier two and tier three, there in fact might be need for two and three. I don't know about threes, but twos anyway. I don't know what threes are, but um you know, is that a nuclear plant that I don't know what it means, but it seems to me what you're saying is that in fact the science is going to change and uh there probably is going to be at some point need uh for tier 2 at some point. And maybe it would be smarter to try to get ahead of that and find out where you might want to put those if you have to get them.

Yeah. And I I started reading through the code. A lot of codes in the in the US have carveouts, exemptions for utilities. Um, you go down to like Valhalla where you have the major transmission lines that are going into New York City. I know like on the on that nursery there, they were contemplating putting this because the transmission lines are right there. Where else you want to put them next to transmission lines? You don't want to put these in the middle of an area where right to get the power to there and then to be able to discharge it is is not um

in Milwood where the substation is. Is that the type of place where they would be thinking about it? Lowden County Dominion Energy bought a couple residential properties next to their uh next to one of their substations called Evergreen Energy Center and they're putting I think it's a 40 megawatt hour so smaller um uh battery energy storage system that would um it's not when you talk about that's four that's 4,000 kilowatt hours. So when that'd be a tier of three. Um but it's right next to them and it's in a residential area. Uh the fire marshall down there required to confirmation that their maximum distance of hose line is 1,000 ft. So there had to be two hydrants that were within a thousand feet of this place and there there are um but as chairman said a lot of times the the view is you let it burn because just part of the natural process it creates its own oxygen.

Right. Right. Um there's a lot going it's but also just from and I'm not beholding to anyone but there this is something that is going to happen in the US in order to save the bill save people from having brownouts and blackouts. Um and at the same time it reduce it can reduce the cost of power. Like my house I have solar and I have batteries. During the summer I don't I don't use the grid. I'm all day I'm pumping about like on a good day it's 80 kilowatt hours back into the grid. Mh.

That and and at night the batteries charge up and then they discharge during the day. So that means kind I'm not putting strain on the grid which means Ken doesn't necessarily have to improve for my little you my little bit. Same with my neighbor who has um who has five power walls or six power walls at this point because he's got an electric car uh and whatnot. I'm only asking this because you seem to know more than anybody. Tier two, if you were to have a tier 2 facility, I'm assuming it doesn't need water and sewer. It just really needs electric. None nothing really needs water and sewer. None of these things need water and sewer.

I'm only thinking that because that where we have the Milwood substation, we don't have sewer there. So, it's not as if we're taking away from a residential use, right? It's kind of

Okay. Um and then there's now as part of when when there is fire and you are putting out water making sure self-contained um I don't know called basins or yeah I mean it's concrete and it's got a method for filtering out the particles that can get into the um that can get into the water. So the heavy metals be no different than than probably filtration that occurs in a normal normal sanitary treatment plant to try to pull out heavy metals with the sand filter and charcoal and all that stuff. Um but before it gets discharged, it has enough time to go through the filter medium to reduce or eliminate any heavy metals from going off site. It goes in the air. Same thing as a as a building fire, right? When when a when a house burns down,

there's lots of stuff. Yeah. We're we're expanding our fire station so they can have a washing area because of all the stuff that come, you know, like it's there's not a lot big difference. They say this all as a person, not as a person in the business. Yes. No, no, but you're one step up on us.

I'm working on this. Uh, so yeah, I I just think that we need to be mindful of making sure that we don't put something in local law that could be contradictory to the state law and then making sure that we're not limiting our residents from doing residential projects. So getting to the point of citing these on a site, I mean I obviously you want it to be located safely. You want it to be private from your neighbors, but practicality reasons I think they're all pretty much around the garage near the car, right? If mo if most of these are for batteries for cars.

Well, there I mean it's for my house, right? But is that is that is that part of your garage or part of your main house? So, I want to put in my garage, but um but Tesla has a little the switch has to be within from an from electric code has to be within six feet of the ground, which if you put them in your garage, there's path of travel. Tom and I went through this. I mean, I made diagrams and stuff. Um and the impact zone of a car, unless if your garage is under 7 foot 6 in, is 48 in.

Okay. The switch is at the top of a 3ft p or 2 and a half foot. So it's above that 6 foot um thing. So you can't really put in your garage unless if it's completely out of the way of where your car will be driving. Gotcha. So folks,

so mine went out the house. Um, I would I I've been actually communicating with the building inspector and right now they follow the for tier one, they follow the 2025 New York State Residential Code, which talks about 80 kilowatts being a cumulative uh number. So you with that he's uh he's telling me you could fit three power walls. Um but more than that would not be allowed. You fit six. I think six power walls are 135 each. Um, what do we do for people kilowatts is your max. What do we do for people that have more already? You're in violation.

So presumably if there's more than 80 watt 80 kilowatts, then presumably they've uh they they don't have a permit. So they're in violation for a couple reasons. They've done something without a permit and they're also over the limit. Was there ever a time these could be installed without a permit? Everything can be installed without permit. So legally this goes back to that's a different story. No, legally you need a permit. There are three that are stacked which are 40.5. But then you go three feet over and you could put another stack. Right. Are we saying that that's 81? That's 81. Well, well, you could do as many as you want, right?

Right. Um Tesla will only stack three in front of each other. That's there's all kinds of reasons, but also the code, I think, says maximum is 50 kilowatt hours per stack. So, if each one's 13.5, you can't add a fourth one there. But are we saying that, you know, cumulative per stack or cumulative per property? cumitive per property. If you have more than 80, you're in violation in a one and two family residential zone. Okay. So, that could operate as as a significant limitation. Well, I would expect that anyone who's done this has come in for a permit. You're not

Yeah. You're not doing this without going through the right channels. So, so do you think the the 13.5 Yeah. which gets us times six which gets us to 81. Is that done on purpose so you don't get to six or can the 81 get change can the 80 be changed to 81 so you can get to Oh, but this is state law. We can't change a state law. Correct. This is state building code. But I'm just saying are they are why if if the if the stuff that comes out in the market gets you to 81, why do they limit you at 80? I'm just it just seems like when this came across I didn't even go

I got a copy of last year the recommendations and I didn't I mean I didn't track this stuff until we came here and I don't know yeah just seems like they would someone did on purpose right well there's you can get them smaller in the like the ang like there's other ones where you can get them smaller tanches oh so they do come like a 12 and a half I'm going to guess that Tesla's already figured out a way to reduce to maxim like you can maximize how much Those things can actually take it to 80. Yeah. Like in a storm, when there's a storm, it actually charges greater than 135 for a very short time period. In case you lose power, you have more more juice like Frankenstein. It has to do with the chemistry.

So, they shove more ions into the lithium, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to throw out there that that that these thresholds in in 1207, all those thresholds are are saying if it's below those thresholds, it that section does not apply. Right. Right.

Right. So, we can fashion the code to be higher threshold than that. Um the only difference is, you know, if they're let's just say we make it 100 kilowatt hours. If they're at if they're at 60, they don't the 127.7 doesn't apply. 127 doesn't apply. But if they're at 85, then 1207 does apply. So they can still build within our code, but they're just they have to rely they have to follow this this section of code in the fire code. That's all. Um I I do agree with Jeff though, 80 is a little bit small. Um you know, if you look at how you can pull out your your power bills, um and see kind of what you what you use in a month. Um you know, 80 kilowatt hours is not it's not an enormous amount. you know, just like that that one that Cadillac Escalade, it's got 200. Um, you know, do you think we should also possibly mention that um you know, does this apply to parking cars inside structures? Right. Ultimately, the the purpose of this um this law is for for you know, the fire department to uh kind of manage things, right? We it's there's health and safety issues, there's environmental issues. Um but uh you know just all all kind of considerations to

but but also folks I do want to say you know we follow the state building code right and so they set the regulations we are implementing we're not trying to change that with this law in fact we're saying we don't want twos and threes tier ones will stay as it is right the tier ones go up to 600 tier one go up to 600 this stops at 80. Tier two is 6. Tier two is 600. So between 80 and tier two is less than 600. Tier tier two is between 80 and 600. Okay. Um and then between 80 and 600. Yeah. Correct. Okay. 599

depending on depending on where depending on where it's located. It's you know it's considered if it's you know depending on the type of battery and where it's located. But you know, we can just use 80 as our as our number. And you know, that that number that tier two would be more businesses would be using that. You know, uh, you know, large businesses that need to stay that need to stay online, supermarkets,

of power. Yeah. Supermarkets, things like that. That would be sort of that range of, you know, up to 600. um you know typical large scale bestes that they would put at substages like the one in I think the one in uh Warwick was a little bit less than six um 60,000 I believe it was 50 I think it was 57 or something like that 58 um uh uh gigawatts I believe gigawatt mega megawws megawatts I'm sorry megawatts um but they do get bigger than that they they have some that are you know over a hundred or you know they Yeah, you can make them as as big as you want. It's just all they do is they stack batteries next to each other and and and wire them up.

It's there's really, you know, there is a I do want to mention that there is a generally a water requirement and the water, as Tick was mentioned before, water doesn't put these things out. They're self they're self- sustaining. The water is to spray on uh nearby structures to keep them from catching on fire. Is the water used at all during the course of uh operation for cooling? There's no there's no point in putting No, there's no point in No, really. Uh the water's the only the only purpose of water is the water to put out the fires that's around

fire and it's and it's really it's fire suppression of other structures not the the the batteries you don't put out just the the typical. So when I was in Brier Cliff, we were they were considering putting a vest in um which I believe they shot they ended up shooting that down the the village board. Um, you know, the the direction I reviewed all the plans, all the specifications, you know, we went through with the fire department and uh, you know, there the the the direction from the manufacturer was let it burn and keep everything around it cool with the with the water. That was it.

Yeah. And yeah, like there was been a couple fires you mentioned, right? I think lime was the one in lime was a fault. There's another one where coolant leaked and got in. Mhm. Right. I mean, these things aren't Nothing's perfect, of course. Um, but there's these have gravitated over the last couple years from backup for residential to being utilized continuously for reducing the cost of power by charging during non- peak times and discharging during peak and by doing low load shaving so that there isn't an issue with the transmission lines bringing power into residential areas where you could have a much larger fire. Yeah. from that.

I was intrigued by your example of Chapel Crossing. I mean, that's that's important to to consider. Yeah, that's just one example. But where you have density, uh there could be a need for so-called residential use. Yeah, there's incentives now that are being thrown out by the state, the local or not, state and federal. Um the utilities are are doing that. I mean, think about KED pays me 53 cents a kilowatt hour during the day and I charge it for 3 cents a kilowatt at night, you know. So, they don't give you a check, but it goes against your power builder in the winner, right? Um, so there's there's a lot of things. I I'll send some comments tomorrow to you.

Um, I also just for your information, um, Tom said that the car chargers are not part of the code limitation at the moment. So, um, they're allowed he said they're allowed to back feed to a home. Yeah. So, with that escalade, it's there's not an issue because it's not regulated by the tier one limitation. Yeah, like and typically right now our town does not allow standalone bees. It has to be affiliated with a solar system. Interesting. You could only have a battery storage if you have a solar system. Correct. Right.

Okay. which is odd because like what you know what Jeff does about charging you could people do that you you can make money off the off the difference where you charge at night and then have a big enough system to to use it during the day and you'll pay 3 cents a kilowatt hour instead of you know 40 cents a kilowatt hour to um so you can actually make money doing that we don't allow that not a lot of money because you don't it's a cottage

it goes it goes against your winter bill all right when the sun's not shining but Um, so if it's excludes car charging because the other issue that I mean I had it with if you don't have a Tesla at least with the Tesla power wall they don't talk to each other. So your car will start will continue charging even when you lose power. So you wake up in the morning you don't have power in your batteries because your car is full. Teslas talk to each other. But um we should that that is something that these systems are going to start getting bigger until something like that is fixed so that you have enough power to get out of your house and get somewhere and still have your house running with the sun not shining.

Okay. So how do you want to handle this? um you know, do you want to um give it some thought? We can put it on your next agenda. I know the town board is opening the public hearing on the 10th. Um your next meeting is the 17th, March 3rd. We don't have a 17th. It's a winter break. It's the winter break. So,

so we'd have to come to some sort of memo. I mean, you know, do you agree with the sentiment of the legislation? you know, these are the things that, you know, we kind of need to flesh out so that um we can write a referral response. Well, my my sense is that we probably agree with the sentiment of the legislation, but we probably have uh uh concerns that that will echo uh that are Jeff's concerns and he's got expertise in this area and making certain that we're not overregulating uh in conflict with his state. I guess we're not, but um it seems to me that uh the overall sentiment is is correct. I think we I think the attorneys really need to look and and and uh consider uh what we're doing on tier two and tier 3es. You know, we start getting out over our ski tips and we find uh that we're in in in a dangerous situation where we are precluding uh areas that uh there are real demands for tier two maybe. I don't know what tier three is. Maybe it's just too big. But what to hear what Jeff said about the examples of chap chapa crossing and and other areas where we have density uh is I think very interesting. So instead of saying not any why don't we perhaps start to think about what we should do in the event that tier 2 um best is is required. That was those would be my thoughts. And

there's no there's no tier 2 required right now. And Tropical Crossing does not allow uh solar and therefore they would not have bets. So I'm going to put that I'm going to put a possibility out there. This says single family and two family homes. Say we have a multifamily project that wants to do solar energy on top of the building. Do we have any flexibility getting multif family included in this? Because right now we just say single and two family. You could add it. Okay. Because that would be if you do a multif family project, you have panels on top. That might be an application to do it, right? But I think then you get into tier two because of the size.

But R maybe Jeff knows this, but R3 and R4 there's different residential. Yeah. So what I'd also like to do is invite the building inspector to come to the next meeting where you discuss this. Sure. I think he could he could give you kind of the the building code side of things. Sure. Yeah. You okay with us? Don't trust me. I don't know the building. You know way more than that. But so that would be March 11th or March 2nd. March 3rd. March 3rd. Make sure I'm here. Make sure we're here. Everyone check your calendars. Check in. And you guys have 30 days to respond or ask town board for more time. Okay, I'm good for more shirt.

Well, why don't we ask the town board for more time uh right away because I don't think we're really uh in a position at this point to put together a draft and any kind of draft that we put together at this point would be so preliminary I don't think would be terribly useful. So, why don't we request the town board to uh even before they open the you know the public hearing delay which is our tradition here anyway. I'm only kidding about that. They can open it, but I, you know, clearly they'll close it.

Makes sense to me. Yep. Does that make sense? Yeah, makes sense to me. Okay. Do you need a motion or something? A resolution on that? We we should have a resolution that we could forward to the town board that we ask for more time. Okay. Is there such a uh motion? Motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I. Okay. Very good. Great discussion. Way over my pay grade.

And if I may, if there's comments that you guys want to circulate, if you please send them through me so that I can get them to everybody. So, for example, Jeff, if you have like a list of things because you sat on the plane yesterday or tomorrow and you write a book, send me the book and I'll share it with everybody else. We'll do. And for anybody else and five hours back, you got 10 hours action action packed discussion work.

Exactly. Great. Okay. Well, thank you. Uh, good discussion. Uh, our next item is the minutes of uh, December 16th. I have two little things. Um, on the first page, isn't Jennifer no longer an alternate? Isn't she a full board member? But she was an alternate at the time.

Oh, okay. That was one comment. And then my second thing on page two, line 30, the Norway maple should be counted as replacement trees for replacement. Didn't we determine a 1:1 ratio or a full ratio? Whatever. So could we maybe get that in there? What was it? One is that how we'd say D. So a replacement at a 1:1 ratio ratio for funding to the tree bank. Yeah, we counted uh Yeah, we just never said it and I just want to get it. Yeah, that's as one for one and take out the as replacement trees just say counted for replacement funding as one to one.

Those are my comments. Okay, anyone else any comments? If not, is there a motion to adopt the minutes of December 16? Motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I. Is there a motion to close the meeting? Motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I I Okay, we're all set.