Metropolitan Council - Regular Meeting

All right, well, welcome everybody to the 1st traffic calming meeting for Arthur Avenue. My name is David Greaves. I work within on the traffic calming program, and I'll be facilitating this meeting tonight. We're meeting virtually. The date is June 25th, 2026, 6 PM on Webex. This is being recorded. So if anybody is. not here and wants to see what we've covered, this will be available on Metro Nationals' YouTube page within a week or so of this meeting. So, a little bit about the agenda, we're going to start with an overview of the program overall in case anyone isn't familiar with kind of what we do and why. We're then going to talk about some of the things about Arthur Avenue that may have inspired you all to apply for traffic calming. And so I'm interested to hear, you know, what's going on now that, you know, maybe you're not so satisfied with or what's going well. We have a toolbox of traffic calming devices that we'll review, talk about some options that may work, may not work as well. And then what we've done is produced a preliminary concept design just to kind of get the conversation going. It doesn't mean that what we ultimately propose as the project has to be anything like what we've drawn. So it's for discussion's sake. Um, but we want to get y'all's thoughts on, um, you know, what your neighborhood is really looking for out of this program. Then we'll finish by discussing kind of the next steps, how the project moves forward, whether we do a 2nd meeting or not. Um, and then we'll we'll wrap up for the night. I do want to make everyone aware, especially those who may be watching a recording after tonight, that we also have an Engage Nashville survey live. That can be found at engage.nashville.gov slash traffic calming. And you'll find Arthur in the list. It should be close to the top, luckily for y'all. But you can also get to that website by scanning the QR code. So, to jump into the overview, just a bit about what traffic calming is. This is a program that NDOT, National's Department of Transportation, has been doing for several years, and it's focused on residential streets. It generally tends to lean toward physical solutions to encourage lower speeds. And one of the primary goals of the program is speed reduction. We'll talk about why in just a second. Traffic calming is one of the many things that NDOT does that fits into what's called a safe systems approach. This is an approach defined by the U.S. Department of Transportation and we're happy to share that it covers a little bit of four out of the five eye slices that we see here on the graphic to the left. Traffic calming shoots for safer speeds by slowing vehicles down on streets where we observe speeding. Safer roads, so beyond just slowing people down, we try to design streets that keeps users separated in space and in time wherever possible. and generally encouraging better behavior by all road users. Safer people, so we like to think that drivers are more aware when they're driving on a road with traffic calming, making it harder to kind of zone out, stop paying attention to what you're doing, and just generally overall, you know, make sure people are more safe. And then we also dip a little bit into the post crash care pie slice by deliberately designing our projects Um, to to minimize the amount that we're impeding emergency vehicles. Um, so if there were a crash, God forbid, um, you know, hopefully vehicles that need to get there quickly can. This all ties into Nashville's vision 0, um. program and philosophy as a department. The idea here is that nobody should have to be killed or seriously injured on Nashville's streets. Speed is really closely tied to that because the faster vehicles go, if they were to hit a pedestrian, the lower the chances that that person who's hit survives. You can see that's kind of quantified in the graphic there, but we just want to remember that that's really logic behind slowing speeds down. It's about promoting safety and livability in your neighborhood. This is a really popular program. So the map to the right shows all of the projects in Nashville that have interacted with traffic calming. So the kind of magenta lines are streets that have applied but not yet been selected. The dark blue lines are projects that have been installed. And then all of the other colors are streets that are somewhere in between in that process. In the spring of 2026, we all were selected among 24 other neighborhood streets. Those are the ones that all show up in red on this map. And as this project moves forward, we encourage you to look to the live traffic calming tracker. That's at trafficcalming.nashville.gov. To stay up to date on on where your project might be in the process. So, we'll review the toolbox in a few minutes, but you'll see that there's kind of a limited palette of things that we're able to do with projects that go through this program. But there are all sorts of things that end up in Metro Nashville in general do. they kind of fall outside of our purview. So feel free to share any concerns you have. And if any are not necessarily suited to be fixed with the traffic calming project, we may direct you to hub Nashville as a resource to kind of submit that feedback as well. That can be things like, you know, pothole repair, debris in the road, requests for stop signs, things along those lines. That can be accessed by calling 311. Uh, online at hub dot Nashville dot Gov and there's also a mobile app that that makes, um, submitting requests fairly streamlined. This is the last slide before I'm going to pause for questions, but this is a little bit about how we chose Arthur Avenue to be in that group of 25 streets that was selected. We try to do this in a way that's really data driven just because there are so many streets that have applied and would like treatments like this. We want to make sure the way that we are selecting projects is fair and tied to data. So, to do that, we measure vehicle speeds, vehicle volumes. With a traffic count, so that tells us how fast everyone is going and then, you know, how many cars drove on that street on a particular day. And those 2 things make up the bulk of the score. The reason for that is, it kind of represents the amount of of risk that a given street house. But we know that there are more factors at play. So, in addition to those 2 factors, we take crash history and 15 of the possible points out of 100 are tied to whether or not vulnerable users have been involved in an accident in the last 10 years. Non-driver accommodations is things like sidewalks and bike lanes. So you actually get points if you don't have those things. Reason for that is on roads where everyone has to share the same pavement. We want to be extra sure that those doing so are doing so safely. And then the last 5 points is for trip destinations. So, if you're near things like parks or community centers, schools, libraries, things that we know generate pedestrian traffic, we want to include that as a factor as well. Okay, so from here on out, we're going to be talking about Arthur Avenue specifically, but I want to. Leave this slide up, and with the data that you see, a speed of 31 miles an hour, a volume of 1,800 vehicles per day, and a pavement width of 50 feet, what do you all have to share or ask about this project or anything that I've covered so far? This is kind of when I'm hoping that we'll discuss what's going well, what's not going well.

hi this is robin white my husband and i are here and we are located at 1407 a arthur avenue so we are between cheatham and monroe and we notice very high speeds lots of times as well as people ignoring the four-way stop at arthur and cheatham

Got it. Good to know.

And yeah, I think with the speed number that we measured, that tracks.

Yeah, David, when you are measuring the speed, is it more about people heading toward, they're heading away from downtown, they're heading toward that underpass, sort of like once you, if you did stop at the four-way, Now you're kind of getting up speed and you're headed toward Buchanan. And there's only, I think, one stop sign in between, you know, these two four-way stops. Like, is that where most of the speed's getting picked up or is it from Monroe to the stop? You know what I mean? Or are you like, it really doesn't matter. We're just seeing the same pattern of behavior regardless of where people are on Arthur Avenue.

Yeah, that's a good question. Um, so when we place counters that actually happens at 1 particular point on the street and what we do is we, we try to place it, you know. In the spot that we would expect kind of the normal. Behavior on the street. Um, I can go ahead and check, but I believe it was placed kind of midway between Garfield and Cheatham place. Um. We count both directions, and I think that it can be split up to evaluate, like, are people going faster in 1 direction or another. So it's something I can look into, but it wouldn't necessarily affect any of the design decisions that we have to make from now going forward. Those factors really feed it to the prioritization process that led to you being selected.

Well, just because I live on Arthur, too. I'm like 15, 10, B. And what I see generally is where people are picking up speed. It usually is going back to the underpass part. They've maybe rolled through the stop. At least maybe they've paused where they are stopping. I haven't seen as many people like rolling through, but, um, but, uh, that's where they seem to pick up the speed. And I know that we put this, you know, the stop here at Arthur and and cheat them to try to slow people down. So did that even work? Or in your opinion, you know, a bit of it. I mean, I'm shocked at how many cars you say go on Arthur a day. That's well more than I assumed, but.

Yeah, um, definitely good information to know. Um, I think that at least. 1 crash that we, um, took into account occurred at the intersection of Cheatham and Arthur. Um. If I, if I recall, it was somebody like, kind of on a bike as as they were. Heading on sheet in place. Um. so it isn't a big surprise that the stopping behavior on at that intersection isn't um exemplary um i will say we probably would not have done that explicitly for the purpose of slowing vehicles down um usually stop signs are applied more um for for purposes of like making sure that the intersection functions properly from all approaches but um you know of course it would have people slow down to come to a stop and then and then speed back up again okay Kathy you're on Arthur what do you have anything to add

Well, I'll jump in real quick and I tuned out for about. 4 minutes to deal with something real quick, but I also live over here and obviously. Uh, you know, just agree with other people have said that that, you know, you see cars moving moving very quickly down here. Um. uh i missed the stop sign conversation but they have that has helped substantially um and apologies from repeating something but um the biggest the biggest challenge i see is that from cheatham to buchanan actually i believe there is no stop mechanism so someone could leave you can and go downhill and continue to pick up speed pick up speed Go under the interstate bridge with limited visibility and come flying out the other side. And that's the, I think that's 1 of the big, big kind of pinch points. It used to be all the way down to Monroe and those stop signs have really. Helped, but that's 1 of the big challenges I've seen.

Yeah, there's a stop sign right near the community center after you've gone underneath the underpass in Elizabeth park. That's like the 1st stop sign you encounter once you've left Cheatham.

Yeah, so about three blocks and longer than usual blocks at that.

And I would agree about the running or rolling through the Cheatham stop sign from all directions. That happens all the time.

Got it. Yeah, I would say that I'm Jason. I'm Robin's husband. I'm a beautification chair. And we are actually sitting out in our front yard now watching people roll through continuously. And I'm glad that there is a stop sign. I know that people are going to roll and all those things. But for sure, I think most of the speeding problems are probably from Cheatham to Garfield. But we are definitely in favor of between Cheatham and Monroe, because for whatever reason, because it's one block, I mean, I just don't get it. People really want to pick up speed and then kind of coast through that stop sign.

No, yeah, I mean, it's disappointing to say the least that the stop sign helps, but is not being, you know, respected to the degree we would like. So, Does anyone have anything else to share before we talk about toolboxes and then move on to discussing kind of the preliminary design that we've brought up? Doesn't look like we've got anything in the chat. So I'll go right on ahead and there'll be plenty of time for more discussion and questions and things and we can come back to whatever slides we need. Um, so on to the tool kit, um, so 1 of the most common tools in the traffic calming toolbox that gets used around Nashville are speed cushions. These are modular rubber devices that get bolted onto the road. Um, there are plenty in y'all's neighborhood, um, and 11th, um, in a few streets in the. Neighborhood, and so I expect that most people will will know what these are. Um, they're about 3 inches tall, 6 feet wide. Um, they come in a variety of lengths, depending on the context of the neighborhood. Um, and they, they essentially designed to work kind of like speed bumps, but with a higher target speed. So we're, we're not asking people to drive, like, 510 miles an hour over these. Like, they might, um, a regular speed bump, but more in the 2025 mile an hour range is sort of what they're designed to do. Similar to those, we sometimes use speed tables. The main difference with these is they don't have the gaps kind of in between. Those gaps are designed to help emergency vehicles respond to incidents quicker and not be as inhibited by speed cushions. So, because Arthur is a road that connects to many other things. We would avoid these on Arthur itself, but you might see them in other projects around town. And the reason that vertical measures are so popular as a traffic calming device is because we have really good data to demonstrate that they have the intended effect of slowing speeds. So in 2025, we took a Pretty large inventory of before and after data on traffic calming projects that were installed in Nashville, um, within the last few years and kind of across the speed statistics. Um, we saw a decrease of around 9 miles an hour. Um, so that was really encouraging to us. It basically validated that, um, what we think is is happening as a result of these projects is, and that, um, in general speeds on. Our streets that get vertical measures, um. I'm down fairly significantly. We also mix in devices that are not vertical measures into designs. So sometimes we'll do radar feedback signs. These are usually when vertical measures aren't available. For instance, if a road's volume was too high, perhaps the grades are too steep for cushions to really make sense. Um, these can have a bit of an effect, but at the end of the day, it is just a sign. It's not, um, you know, writing tickets or taking pictures or anything. Um, it's simply reporting back to the driver how fast they're going. Um, so they don't physically affect, um. Vehicles at all. Similarly, we can do narrowing. So this is when we use striping to kind of visually narrow the road, make it feel a little more claustrophobic. Arthur Avenue is 50 feet of pavement, and I can imagine at one point before the bike lanes were installed, it felt quite wide. So narrowing is kind of like where we shrink up the available driving space. um to slow speeds that way um sometimes we'll do what's called a slow safer shoulder this is where we narrow a street but put all of the extra pavement on one side and then install some delineators and some signage that make it clear that it's a reasonable place for a person to walk Um, we know the Nashville sidewalk network is is lacking in a lot of places and while these are not, um, you know, a permanent replacement. For sidewalks, they can offer, um. You know, some, some relief for pedestrians in the interim on streets that, um, you know, would likely need to wait a pretty long time to get sidewalks installed. Um, there are some parameters that we work around, uh, like, we wouldn't do these on streets that are much narrower than than 24 feet because we, we do need some space, um. To dedicate, and then the main downside here is that it can limit the amount of on street parking available. So we generally don't do this, um, on streets where that would be a major concern for for residents. At intersections, we narrow those with devices called bulb-outs. So this is where we take intersections that may be a little larger than they necessarily need to be and shrink them from the outside in. This helps vehicles go slowly through them and turning through them because you're not able to take turns quite as fast. Another advantage to these is they shorten the distance that pedestrians have to cross to get from 1 side to the other side in the zone where they'd be conflicting with vehicles. So, if you look at the image on the top left, you can imagine crossing from 1 ramp all the way to the other. Would take quite a while, not necessarily be the most comfortable experience, but after these bulb outs were applied, they're really only in space that vehicles would also be for about 20 feet. They can also help with what's called daylighting, so keeping sight lines clear at intersections. This is important where we have a lot of parallel parking, because when cars park too close to intersections and crosswalks, it can block the view between pedestrians and drivers, and that can cause accidents. If people aren't able to see each other using the roadway, that's when collisions tend to occur. In addition to deflecting vehicles vertically on wide roads, we can sometimes do what's called chicanes. So having vehicles shift side to side as they drive along a straight road. This is another tool that does have an effect on the total supply of on street parking, and it's not available for roadways that are narrow enough to just be two lanes because there's really no room to go back and forth. Um, but on really narrow roads, um, we can sometimes do pinch points. So this creates a bit of a chicane. Um, it's only 1 lane wide and it creates kind of a situation that you might get from from 2 cars being street parked next to each other where if oncoming traffic was approaching each other, people slow down kind of decide who goes 1st and go that way. So, these are really effective at slowing speeds. It makes it less convenient to cut through a street that has these treatments on it. The only problem is, they're a little, they're mainly available to streets with a pretty small volume of traffic. We wouldn't want to shrink down to just 1 lane if there was pretty significant throughput needed. And then lastly, we have traffic circles. You might also be familiar with these. I know that you've got a few of them on Cheatham in your neck of the woods. These narrow intersections from the inside out and create what's kind of like a roundabout where no matter which way you're turning, you start by going to the right and then proceed counterclockwise around the circle. So, with all that being said, I want to move to the next slide. This is a map of the concept that we've drafted so far. I'm going to just kind of narrate what we have going on and then I'd like to hear any questions, concerns, comments, or other ideas that you all have. So, going from left to right, that'd be north to south. We're proposing a set of bulb outs at Garfield Street. We hope that by kind of creating a bit of a narrow point before you even get south of Garfield, that'll help vehicles not pick up so much speed, or if they were going faster to the north, they would slow down. Pretty soon after that, we have the first set of speed cushions that's closer to Garfield Street than it is to Cheatham because there isn't a stop sign at Garfield. So we try to keep the treatments generally evenly spaced, but we do want to make sure that vehicles are slowing down as soon as they can when they get to the street. Um, there's room for 1 more set of speed cushions south of that before cheating and then. Um, there's room for 1 set of speed cushions in between sheet in place and Monroe street. We definitely heard the complaints about stop sign compliance at Cheatham, even in both directions. We could maybe look into what might increase the visibility of the stop sign, though I don't suspect that it's a problem of people not knowing it's there. um hopefully if we get the speeds down like immediately before and immediately afterwards um there will be a little less like psychological impulse to to roll through it um but i know that's something that um you've complained about that we're not directly addressing with this design so with all that being said um do we have any questions or thoughts um Really, really open for whatever feedback you all have.

I don't want to monopolize the conversation, but, uh, what I'm going to have some thoughts because. I do think we've already had Arthur narrowed with the bike lanes. And I do, especially since we have like a representative from Mount Bethel, it's like the church uses street parking. So many of the residents on Arthur use Arthur as street parking. So I think you're on the same page. Like the street narrowing thing is just probably not that viable. So was... And the little circle we have, the roundabout we have on Cheatham, my understanding that that was sort of like a temporary thing and I feel like it's become a permanent eyesore and it's confusing because there's a stop and then there is like people are like, do I stop or do I just go into the circle? And I know you're not proposing another roundabout, but I guess I thought that maybe at the Garfield intersection with Arthur, that maybe that would be possibly a roundabout because that does slow people down. And therefore you wouldn't need all these cushions on Arthur. I'm not for cushions. I'll just be frank about that. But help me understand like why roundabout at Garfield could or could not work maybe, or the pros or cons of it.

Yeah, um, there is no reason to rule it out. Um, I would like to take a look at the geometry of that intersection and, um, kind of make sure that it. That it fits and vehicles can can work. Okay. Um, I will say in my experience. A, like, 90 degree 4 way intersection is where they work the best. Um, there are examples of of where they've been installed at 3 way intersections. Um, I think also in North Nashville, um, but it's not quite as trivial. And what we would expect. Maybe is if we. Deflected vehicles counterclockwise, like traveling South. That would be putting cars in the southbound direction. Closer to bikes in the northbound direction. That would be my main reservation. Um, but. I haven't done, like, specific measurements or sketched that out yet. So I'm not going to say that it's possible. Maybe it's half of a roundabout.

To your point, you're not sending people. Because I do know that over by the convention center, because you've got so many tourists over there, too, it's, like, a little nerve-wracking because people are like, wait, where, you know. But maybe you're coming down and then you can. just, you know, it's more of just like, almost like a bulb out that are kind of different, reverse bulb out, if that makes sense. I don't know.

Yeah, maybe like a median or something, like perhaps would be.

Oh, yeah. Well, we've always talked about where would we put another sign welcoming you to the neighborhood? And when we talked about a different area that maybe that would possibly be a place, I don't know, for something like that on the beautification side of things. Jason, you're Mr. Beautification. What do you think would be the most beautiful? Because this is obviously one of our key streets and being a real estate agent, I'm just always like these street cushions just really, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to drive over that every single day I leave my house.

We want to jump in real quick. Have you looked at for Garfield and Arthur and Laurie actually had to look at a roundabout previously for that area. Have you have you looked at chicanes and they were doing an art project under the Arthur underpass and they set up kind of accidental chicanes because they had us basically came in and zigzagged. And it was forcing people to slow down because you couldn't just go straight shot. You kind of came in and you had to navigate the little zigzag. So I'm wondering if it makes sense to look at that there. And I don't know what people's experiences are from stop sign to stop sign Cheatham to Monroe, but if we don't want to do cushions... maybe that chicane would be enough to get people's speed down as they approach under the underpass. And then by the time they try to speed up, they're at a stop sign, which they may roll through, I guess. But if they do stop at the stop sign, then it's already kind of chopped up. Wasn't sure if that was something we could look at.

yeah um so we have done chicanes elsewhere in town um sometimes with speed cushions sometimes without um the limits of this project right now and as they were applied for are garfield street to monroe um i can talk with the team to see if they are interested in um you know stretching it a bit to include the area under the underpass Have kind of already experimented with that. Um, the 1 thing that I'll say about is that they are in conflict with the desire for on street parking. So we wouldn't be able to, um. Keep, like, 2 sides, 2 lanes, the bike lane. Um. Consistent throughout, um, in the areas where. Lanes are like, over to 1 side or the other, um. There would only be able to be 1 side of of parallel parking. So it's a bit of a balance.

Um, you know, I think I walked it on that on that spot. And I have to look at it again, but I think there was a way to do it. With how I think maybe the road got wider there or something, but there was a way to do it where you didn't lose too much of that parking or bike landing. You kind of shift it with that.

yes also no one really parallel parts no one really parallel parks from garfield to the underpass oh for sure i think i think of all the places where chicanes would work well like that's the one just because i can't imagine too many people are wanting to park under there or at least there aren't things that you're parking to get to in that that particular stretch

May I say something? I'm listening and understanding what you're saying. And what I'm going back to is that I've been involved with Arthur Avenue since 1988. And with that said, the homes that were there then were homes that were the residential homes with owners or renters that would rent for years and years. This is to everyone that's listening. Do you think that, because I don't know the number of Airbnb rentals in the area now, but it may be quite a few. Do you think that the problem with what's going on with the speeding might possibly, or just ignoring things, might possibly be for the fact that you have your Airbnb folks that are kind of coming in and leaving and so forth and just New people to our area and just not really. I'm not going to say they don't care, but just not being as thoughtful as we would want them to be. Do you think that might be what's happening?

And that's.

Keeping that in mind as we look at ways to calm the situation.

Um, it's a little bit outside of my, my purview. I'm a transportation engineer. Um, what I will say is that with a volume of over 1800 vehicles per day. Only a low percentage of those are going to or from 1 of the houses on your street. um the majority of those trips are are coming from somewhere else and and going to somewhere else uh likely because arthur is one of the few streets that does traverse the interstate so it's kind of a connector in that way yes i believe there's probably less than five at most on arthur at this point of airbnbs and i usually see more of those folks waiting for an uber

or something like that. Now, they'd love to leave their trash. We don't like that part.

Yeah, I would agree with you on that, Lori. I feel like most of these people are using Arthur as a cut through because they don't have to worry about the speed bumps and that sort of thing on other side streets. So I think that Unfortunately, I know that everybody's not in favor of the speed bump thing, but we are smack dab in the middle between Monroe and Cheatham. And we just saw somebody literally five minutes ago run through the stop sign, continuing 45 to 50 miles an hour between this block. So I don't think we can, if we're going to do anything, we have to have that one Cause it will be dead center in front of our house for sure. That one speed bump that slow, like breaks people before they get to that stop sign for whatever reason, they just feel like they need to pick up speed here. And I think it's because all the other streets around us have calming things in place. And we're the only one left that they can do that on.

I know, I wonder, kind of questioned if now people will start running through 10th. You know what I mean? To some degree. Because the major cut through used to also be right around 11th and going around the basketball. And so now we've got a lot of cushions over there. But I don't know if anybody on this phone call lives over there to know if they feel like that has reduced the cut through traffic. on that far side closer to the Jefferson

Yeah, to just kind of help that conversation move along. I've gone back to our location map for Arthur Avenue where we see the limits of this project, but in context of the streets that in your neighborhood that have also gotten speed cushions. I guess you could argue that all of Cheatham Place belongs on that now, given that there's a series of 3 traffic circles along the street. But, yeah, I mean, it is, it is possible that somebody would choose to use 10th instead of, um, going over 3 sets of speed cushions on Arthur. Um, they have applied for traffic calming. So we, um, you know, should be situated to address that if it does get to a point where, um. You know, 10th was selected for 4 streets. Um. So anyway, just want to validate that. That is a concern, but ultimately, if we know there's a problem at Arthur and have the tools to address it, we think that's a good place to start.

I would also like to mention, this is Jason again with the beautification. Lori, I think that down at Garfield, if it were possible to make that a place where we could advertise that they are entering the historic Buena Vista, I think that would be great.

Yeah, we just have a, we have a signpost now. And like, frankly, we would have to do a major fundraiser because they, to get another sign like we have in the end with Kroger on Monroe, I mean, that's probably $15,000. Yeah, it's a great sign. Yeah, it's pretty, you know, anyway. i know i would prefer something pretty i know that when we make something pretty then we've got to take care of it um and we already are kind of stretched with like folks showing up to take care of things but um it wouldn't be that hard we can do it i can i can do it i know i like bulb out the idea is the best just because they they they're more in keeping with like what you would see in germantown too You know what I mean? Sure. Does Germantown have that many cushions? I can't remember.

I don't think so.

They're about to get Garfield from. To third, I think is approved for. Cushions all the way down. It's just taking time to construct it, but that is that has been approved and. Voted on.

The street going north to South also was selected sometime in the last few years. I know that that was implemented.

Somewhat recently, I just didn't know if their neighborhood association was fighting cushions, you know what I mean? Because I know they're pretty. Organized over there.

Uh, in my experience, it's, it's never unanimous, you know, some people really appreciate them. Other people don't. Um, but any project that's been installed has, um. Had approval by more than 2 thirds of the, the property owners on the street. Um. So, we, we take that as a pretty good indicator of of where they stand.

Okay.

Well, I guess to talk about what we can do moving forward, I've heard some opinions that speed cushions aren't preferred and some opinions that they, you know, are preferred. It seems like we like doing treatments with the intersections, whether it be circles or bulb outs, you know, we would hope they both have the same effect. I would be interested and willing to kind of sketch out what a circle concept would look like, just for the sake of seeing if it makes sense. Is there anything else that we should keep in mind as we do our site visit and then ultimately entertain some different designs for the plans?

When you refer to a circle structure, are you envisioning it to be like the one that's already in Cheatham Place?

No, so this is the closest image that we have to what we would propose. So the signage that's on Cheatham would be the same, but what we would do is use this kind of rubber curb it's about three inches high and that's filled in with asphalt so we know that the circles on Cheatham have gotten complaints about being kind of difficult to traverse this is designed so that that is not as disruptive like if your tire were to go on this maybe you're pulling a trailer or driving like a larger truck Going over these are not quite as big of a deal. And they're not quite as heavy on plastic and rubber and things.

Is it possible it could be considered a vertical measure and it becomes a speed cushion?

So they are vertical, that's for sure. And we wouldn't expect people to drive over them regularly the same way that speed cushions are. It's just a different treatment for a different situation. Like, we never put speed cushions at intersections and we never put circles not at intersections, if that makes sense.

Yeah, the experience I've had with the Cheatham Place one, there could be three cars in there in the circle. One is talking to another person and the other person's traversing the wrong direction of travel and it's a little chaotic. Yeah, no, just figuring that out, but I did like the idea of the chicane and you mentioned. That incorporating going closer to Elizabeth parts, like, under the overpass. And closer to Elizabeth part, that sounds very favorable. And then also maybe a sign that Jason had mentioned could also help sort of give a heads up to people that, hey, you're entering, you know, historic Vista, whatever we, we take pride in our neighborhood kind of thing. Um, and then, yeah, um, I'm just. Trying to, um, capture what sounded agreeable.

Yeah, thank you for for that summary. It's very helpful.

Um, any, any other feedback before we move on to kind of the next steps part of the meeting.

Okay, um, so.

Next slide this is a flow chart of any given traffic calming projects process. So, like I mentioned, it started with an application from the neighborhood association. Went through that prioritization and selection process, and we are here at neighborhood meeting number 1. So, after tonight, what we need to do is go and do a site visit. So we're going to come to Arthur Avenue, take some measurements, make sure that we fully understand all the things on the ground. And then we'll go into design. So, that'll that'll include, you know, sketching up the circles idea, um, you know, making sure that those can be expected to operate. Okay. Um, probably drafting the pull outs as well just as another detailed option. And then placing, um, you know, cushions where, where they might go if they're approved. Um, and then what I'll recommend is we do a 2nd neighborhood meeting. Um, oftentimes, uh. You know, streets will have fewer options at their disposal, um, a little bit more consensus on what they want to see. And in those circumstances, it's, it's a lot a little more efficient to just post the plans and and begin the ballot a little early. Um. but i think it's probably worthwhile talking through some of the things that we discover on our um visit and design process so i guess does that sound good to all of you to um to schedule a second meeting once our design is um ready to present and also david when you go out can you look at the sketching out the chicanes under the underpass as well

Because that's going to get like, like I said, that's got a public art installation that's in progress. So that's to be all lit up and it's, I think. You know, it might be nice entrance to the neighborhood if the chicane makes sense with or without the speed cushions.

Yeah, what I'll do is I'll coordinate with our partners that I'm about to get in touch with the team working on the public art piece and just make sure that we're all on the same page in that regard. But it's something we can explore as well.

Quick question about the roundabout concept, David. I think 1 of the confusing things about the roundabouts that are in place is that they're still stop signs as well. I'm sorry if someone mentioned this, but the 1 that you're proposing, there would not also be a stop sign to make it confusing. It would just be. The roundabout is that right?

yeah that's a good question so um i guess going into technical territory none of these are actually roundabouts in the most specific term traffic circles are applied to existing intersections and while like cars move the same way as roundabouts they actually are intended to function a little bit differently And that's why, um, there is sometimes confusion about, you know, why are there still stop signs here? Why aren't there stop signs in this other direction? Um, and that is admittedly, you know, 1 of their weaknesses. If we have the space, um, to design, like, a real geometrically, uh, ideal around about, um, we could, but that. Essentially always involves, like, shaving quarters off of folks properties and, um, can be extraordinarily expensive. So, I know that that distinction, like, is minor, but it, it does have a pretty large impact on, um, the intersection control decisions that are made. Um, so what we can do is, is evaluate whether or not it makes sense to keep 4 way stops or the, um, the single stop at car field. Or if it is safe to. Have those all operate as like a yield condition, um, where. Theoretically, nobody would need to stop if there wasn't traffic there, they could just proceed through. Um, it's, it's maybe worth. wondering that doing that would not have the same advantages as that you all have mentioned earlier where folks do slow down at the intersection if they don't fully stop sometimes. So that's the only caution that I would take into account. But either approach is possible. We can study which one we might recommend. And I think it's on our agenda to to take a look at that on the other GDEM circles, like if any of those controls need to be changed. I guess since I have this group here, if you don't mind giving some feedback about the circles, even though that's not what we're necessarily here to talk about, do folks generally Feel like, um, a yield condition would be preferred or does anyone not agree with that? I'm curious.

Are we talking to talk about the ones that are the 10th 10th and sheet and ones like the ones the circle? Yes. So, before, but let me give a little context on that. And it's honestly something that Laurie would love to talk to you and, you know, about beautification and next steps with it. Those so backstory, there were a number of accidents within a short period of time at a number of those intersections. And I had requested four way stops and. former director alarcon was not in favor of them due to the mutcd um and her interpretation of it um saying that they were not warranted um was hurt was her reading the engineer's read and so um what but they what they did do is put um roundabouts in because they could they said they couldn't put the stop signs in um and they were um they were like lori's referring to tactical urbanism they were supposed to be tactical urbanism which technically is a year installation and then potential funding to either make it permanent or take it up um but it's kind of done in a weird way anyway long story short That's kind of the origination of them. They are something that we can look at if we like them or like that concept in doing beautification, planters, things like that, cleaning up the signage, or if they're concerned looking at alternative usage. I know that there are some that I've seen that look a lot nicer that are concrete and not just a bunch of signs sticking up. So I think there's a couple options there, but the original reason for them was that effectively what was happening, the issue is that the there were stop signs along Cheatham, which is kind of the side street, but there weren't stop signs along 10th, 11th, et cetera. So people were coming flying down there and you couldn't see. So you're on Cheatham, you're edging out and then you get slammed into. So, you know, obviously open to different suggestions or different conditions and installations that might help with that. But that was what was happening. And I don't think there's been accidents since. So that was kind of, that was the origin story of those.

Got it. Well, yeah, thank you for sharing that background. Um, it definitely has a lot of context and, um, the. Seems to plug into the familiar theme with, um, long straight roads without, um, you know, anything slowing people down, uh. Leads to high vehicle speeds. Um, okay, well, that sounds good. I think on my to do list, I will look into the. The circles in general, um, I might connect with with you council member, um, and and Lori, um, just to. Let you know what I find out where it is in the process. Um. And, um, maybe maybe splinter that off as kind of a side effort unrelated to 3rd Avenue. Um, I guess to come back to the flow chart following a 2nd meeting, um, we'll finalize the design in any way that, um, you know, we, we need to after the discussion and then post those plans online. Um, so for vertical measures, like circles and cushions, um. Those are subject to an online ballot. So, we send mailers similar to the invitations to this meeting to each of the property owners on the street. That is affected, um, or or really, if, like, your property touches it, so you might have an address on the side street, but if you're. Property line touches Arthur, you'd still get a mailer. Um. This is, uh, open for 6 weeks. Um, give or take, we don't always know, like, exactly how fast mail gets from point a to point B. um, that's why there's plenty of time in there and the ballot, um, period closing date is on that mailer. So that when you get it, you know, you know, when you need to vote by. Um, vertical measures are only approved if 2 thirds of respondents or more vote. Yes. Um, and if that's the case, the project will move forward as designed. And if not, um. It'll either be adjusted to remove the vertical measures, or potentially kind of reconfigure the, the tools to do something that's, um, you know, not vertical in nature. A little bit more about eligibility, so. All residential properties, churches and schools each get 1 vote. Um, but it is only 1 vote per person. So, um, if 1 person owned, like. 3 properties we would, we would just send them the 1 dealer. Um, vacant properties are not eligible. Um. Businesses, like, if it was like a sandwich shop or something, just obviously not a residence, um, you know, we would, we would exclude that as well. Um, and notably, we send these to the address that is available with the register of deeds records. Um, so not to the house itself always like, just. Wherever the owner is listed as receiving mail, like, that's where this goes. So. Want to plug if you are in the balloting period, and you think that you should be getting a mailer and your neighbor does and you don't. Please feel free to reach out. We, we have had plenty of instances before where we were able to look up a person and just tell them their code that way. I know certainly in my case, um, if you send me mail, it's not like a 100% chance that I'm gonna get it or look at it in time. You know, um, it winds up all sorts of places. So, anyway, all that is just to stay, um, you know, keep in touch, maybe, like, let your neighbors know if you get your card and in that way, everyone who who wants to vote is is able to. Um, think that, yeah, that is the end of the slides that I've got. Um, so wanted to ask y'all, are there any other questions or, um. Topics to discuss. All right, well, thank you all so much for joining tonight. Really appreciate the feedback that you gave and the discussion that we have. We're going to start our design phase. So look for communication from us when we've made a little bit of progress and want to set up a meeting to review what we've come up with with you all. But otherwise, thank you all again and have a good night.

Thank you. David? Yes. Okay, this is Jill Kelly. So I'm the secretary. I sent out the meeting, um, details. So, um. Could you please when when we're closer to that 2nd meeting. Just send me the email doesn't have to go through Lori.

And if if you're willing, um, sending your email address in the, um, the chat of this message, or, you know, I can write it down if you want to.

Read it to me, I'll go ahead and stop putting it in the chat historic community associations.