Council - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the regular meeting of the National Town Council to order for September 1st. Would you please stand for the pledge? Let us pray. Heavenly Father, we invite you to this council meeting tonight. We ask you to share your wisdom and knowledge with us. Lead us and guide us, Father, to make the right decisions for all the citizens of Nashville. In your name we pray, amen. The first item on our agenda is approval of minutes. The minutes for August the 4th. Did anybody find any corrections on those? If not, do I hear a motion to approve?

Move to approve. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Minutes approved for August the 4th. The next set of minutes we needed to review and approve were the ones for August 19th. Were there any corrections to those minutes? If not, do I hear a motion to approve?

Move to approve. On page 35, down at item number four, is that address correct? It says 2011 East Sherp Street. No, it's not. It's not correct.

You pointed that out to me. It's another second time I've done it.

I don't think your program's making the changes that you put out.

I don't like the program.

Okay, I got that one. Okay, with that change being noted, may I move to approve?

Is there a second?

Second.

All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Minutes are approved for the August 19th meeting. We have one person signed up for comments, Chris Sandy.

Chris Sandy, 720 South Body Street, Build Right Supply. You got a lot to talk about in reference to me and my company tonight. I'm just taking three minutes here to talk about we the people again and that we have a big responsibility in this town to the citizens and to the businesses and to do things properly because our council and our administration serves us and let's not forget that and in an ethical and proper manner. And so we're going to see some things tonight that has a track history. Those are the things that's happening. I'm a little disappointed. And we're going to air some uncomfortable topics tonight. And so that's forthcoming. And it all tends and lends back to the business discrimination. and the harassment that we had for our business and other businesses in this community, and several other businesses as well, we're very concerned we've had it. So anyway, this is the beginning, and I'll be up later when that topic comes forth.

Thank you. We're going to change our, we'll switch our topic on our agenda. We're going to start off with 7C. And those of you, council, what page is that on? That is on page 86. So at this time, let me get to that page since we're skipping over. The special event permit. And that's to open and hold a scheduled public hearing on a special event permit for the Rise Church's 5K Fun Run on West Washington Street, Barnes Street, Railroad Street, and Body Street from 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. Saturday, December the 5th, 2026, and approve the special event permit. Lou, did you have anything else you wanted to add?

No, they just temporary blocked those streets. Closes one half of Barn Street. He's asking, the Rise Church is asking for traffic control with cones, road closures, and the use of some town equipment for doing that. And there was a map that was of the run.

Right.

and all the roads closures. So that's pretty much it. So you can go into closed session.

I mean, that's the most of it. Would you like to say anything?

Yeah, I mean, and Trey Sanderson's here. If anybody's got any questions about the term, the run.

Mayor and Council, it's just a pleasure to be before you tonight. We're excited about this opportunity. We think it's going to be great for the town. We tried to keep it out from in front of the businesses on Washington Street. We know that's kind of important not to close that section down, but I'm here for any questions you have.

May I have one? So you're starting at the church. Are you finishing at the church? Yes, sir. But there's not going to be a closure at the closing?

No, sir, because by the time we get in, the crowd's going to be so thinned out, they can just come up the sidewalk into the church. But at the start, you have such a massive crowd.

Okay, if there are no other questions for Trey, do I have a motion to open a public hearing on this special event permit?

Move to open public hearing.

Is there a second? Second. Okay, any comments from the audience concerning this? If not, do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? So moved.

Second.

All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

So, um, if not, do I hear a motion to approve the special event permit with resolution 2026 dash 29.

I know it's probably been done, but for the benefit of the public, as long as all the safety safety issues have been ran by the chief of police and our fire chief long, I see a positive nod from both of them. As long as it's all been done and approved, I have no problem.

Okay then, so all in favor say aye. I don't think anyone seconded it. All those in favor, let me know by saying aye.

And I know the businesses really appreciate that you're not blocking that off because the bike parade is the same day, which we'll be blocking that off. Thank you.

Thank you all so much. Thank you.

I'll get you that tomorrow.

The next item on our agenda is the CDBG in our housing application, Sean.

Hey, good evening, Mayor and Council. As you know, tonight is part two of our public hearing for the CDBG grant. Of course, the Town of Nashville was awarded in the last funding $950,000. Our administrator, Mr. Ben Jones, with Faulkner Consulting, has thought it would be applicable if we apply again. So we held the first public hearing back in earlier last month. This will be the next one and also six forms will send out to you on August the 14th that has to be signed by the Mayor or the Mayor Pro Tem, Councilman Larry Taylor. For the sake of time, Mayor, I'll go through all of them, not word by word, but just give you a clip note and some tidbits of what each form is. The first one, Citizen Participation Plan. This establishes that the Town of Nashville will keep citizens involved throughout the entire CDBG program. Your second one would be the Federal Requirements and Certification. The Town Board certifies to the state and federal government that Nashville has the legal authority and administrative ability to accept and administer the CDBG grant and will follow all the applicable federal requirements required by the state. Your third one is the floodplain certification. This pretty much has to be done for our floodplain flood insurance requirements for any properties that seem to be awarded for the CDBG grant that's in the floodplain. We have to make sure we send all that up to the state. The fourth one is the state CDBG program regulation. established that the town remains responsible for oversight of the CDBG grant. It'll be done by our grant administrator, Mr. Ben Jones, also our town manager, Mr. Randy Lansing, and myself, Sean Lucas, the plan director. But Ben will be the primary administrator for this grant if it's rewarded. And the fifth one is your federal requirement certification. This form right here tells Nashville that we understand, agree, and comply with all federal requirements that the state and the federal government require for CDBG and our grants. And the last one Is your state CDBG program regulation? Is the North Carolina Suspec Administrative House requirement that National must follow while carrying out the CDBGNR project? So those are just some brief clip notes of what all six forms are. We did send this out to the council back on August 14th, so you guys could do some homework a little ahead of time and begin reading over it before you got it in your packet. If there's any questions from the council, I will address them. Mr. Ben Jones truly apologized that he could not be with us tonight. As you know, he administered CDBGNR grants for several communities and counties, and he thought our meeting would be next Tuesday night after the holiday weekend, not knowing it was the first, and put his date down wrong. But he's at another meeting tonight, but he truly, truly, sincerely apologizes for not being here for both public hearings. But he feels very confident in myself and Town Manager Lansing that we could handle this, and he feels confident that the council is abreast of what's going on, being that we've already been through one CDBG grant.

Do any of the council members have any questions for Sean? If not, do I hear a motion to open and hold a public hearing on a 950,000 CDBG-NR grant application to rehabilitate or replace four to five substantial houses in Nashville occupied by low-income homeowners. I make that motion. Is there a second?

Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this? If not, do I hear a motion to close the public hearing?

Move to close the public hearing.

Second. Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye.

Aye. Mayor, if I may, Mr. Jones did tell me to let the council know that it will be five to six houses selected. He has not made those selections yet. He is still doing the intake. We have given him several applicants. They did come by the town hall office to apply for the CDBG grant. He's going through the process now, setting up interviews with those people who have applied and also doing his courtesy right around through town, looking for the house that kind of stand out that needs CDBG funding. So he did tell me to inform the council and yourself, mayor, that he has not selected yet, but we will be having selection probably in the next week or two. He said he'll be submitting it to the town for start reviewing.

Thank you. Do I hear a motion that we adopt Resolution 2026-27, authorizing submission of the grant application for this grant?

I move to approve.

Is there a second? Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye.

motion is approved the next item before we go further uh sean and and and mr lanson i would like for the town to post the notice on the door of the town hall alerting citizens that uh This program is in effect, and the reason I say that, there is somebody, and I have not found out who yet, that is calling residents in town, offering to do spot jobs, because one of my residents of elderly age, she's been approached by somebody, and I can't catch them at the right spot. saying that they are authorized to do spot jobs, jobs in the house like replacing carpet, repairing one room, or doing this right here, and not the entire project. And she's thinking it's part of this, and it's not. If you put that notice on the front door of a town hall, or put it on our Facebook page for those that may want to do it so we can get the word out that don't be sucked in, pulled in by these I guess I'm going to call them imposters or other proprietary people going out trying to get jobs done. Under the umbrella of the town.

Councilman Taylor, we'll make sure we get something on the Facebook. And to the people of Nashville that are watching us live tonight, if you do not hear anything from Mr. Ben Jones, Brittany... forgive me for saying her name wrong, Gazilman, Thomasine Jones, Brittany Richardson, or myself, then it is not a legit person from the CDBG colleagues. So if you do not hear from one of those five names, just hang up, call the chief of police, call the police department. They'll be glad to help you if you feel like it. It is Ben Jones with Faulkner Consultant, Brittany Gazitmi, and please forgive if I said her name wrong. She's with Faulkner Consultant, myself, Thomasine Jones with the town, and Brittany Richardson with the town. If you don't hear from one of those names, please hang up and contact your police department. And we'll make sure we get it on the front door of all the town public buildings and on our Facebook page, Councilman Taylor. Thank you.

Sean, I have a quick question for you.

Yes, ma'am.

When we were first approached by this, I believe they said that they have... like pamphlets and paperwork and things like that that they can make available. For CDGB?

They can.

CDBG. Is that something that once someone comes in to pay their water bill, we can kind of give it to them as they're leaving so that we can disperse this more readily?

That won't be a problem. We can get with Mr. Jones tomorrow to see what he has readily available. If he can send a PDF, we can print it out. If not, between myself and the town staff, we can create something within a day and have it ready to put up front where people can pick up or pick up a brochure if they want. We'll make sure we do that also. Great. Thank you. No problem.

Thank you, Sean. The next item on our agenda is the DWI loan offer for sewer rehab. Randy?

Mayor and Council, we had this on the last meeting agenda, and you had asked our town engineer if he could put together a benefit sheet that would show, like, How this pans out. We can get a $3 million loan and do what is called a find and fix sewer rehab project. That's where you clean the lines, televise them, see what might be leaking or needing repair, and then go fix it. And we would do that in targeted areas where we know we probably have some infiltration. and that's primarily in our eight inch, uh, uh, purgified clay sewer mains. So, um, Mike Tolson has taken the time to put together a, um, an analysis of that and Mike, I'll let you take over.

Thank you, Randy. So thank you for letting me be here tonight. I apologize that I didn't have these numbers the last time we met, but a little bit of time to actually crunch some numbers and actually show you something of any benefit was well needed because we got looking at what assumptions we can make as far as what the leakage would be per 100 feet, 500 feet, 1,000 feet, and we tried to make some conservative assumptions so that we weren't making it look like this was going to be the thing that solved all the problems that we were going to run into because it's a big decision and want you guys to know what you're really into. So I believe what you have is a copy of this spreadsheet that's on the thing. What we have done is cost a reline. If you look, I know this thing may be a little bit hard to follow, but I'd i think you work in spreadsheets quite a bit uh... and so uh... you know uh... uh... went up when you put them together you just think they were fine so i apologize for any confusion man in the confusion that calls but you want to look at this is this cost to rely on so the cost of a lot of foot of eight inch pipe is about fifty dollars but i've called and confirm that with local vendor that does lining all over the state and all over the country but also and that was a that's a local good estimate for those numbers about confirm that and then I confirm this from the city Rocky Mount sewer bill you guys pay about eight dollars and seventy eight cents per thousand gallons of water So just to put that in perspective, one gallon a minute leak is about 1,500 gallons of water a day. So every one gallon a minute leak is costing you $9 a day, and we estimate that you have a gallon a minute leak every 300 to 400 feet inside these pipes. One crack could let in 10 gallons a minute. It's just those are what we call gushers. Drips are a gallon, a half gallon, a gallon a day, those kinds of things. Those are not inconsequential, but they do add up. So what we tried to decide was what the best length to choose was going to be our method of what we measured by. So if you look here in this section of it, we've got a thousand feet of VCP, which is vitrified clay, which is the old terracotta pipe. It has joints every four feet, so every thousand feet there's possibly 200 joints, 250 joints inside of that where each one could leak a gallon a minute. We didn't assume that that was what we were doing. We put half a gallon a minute as our smallest leak because half gallon a minute is truly just a small trickle. It doesn't take much to add up to that in a minute inside of a sewer line, especially when you've got high ground water pressing in on those joints and making it leak. And what we did was try to do some different scenarios that showed half gallon a minute, a gallon a minute, gallon and a half, two gallons, or two and a half gallons. Now, two and a half gallons is a big leak, and that can add up very quickly, because if you look, what this information tells you is about the amount of gallons in a day, at a half a gallon is 720 gallons, and per month, that's 21,000 gallons. At two and a half gallons, you're at 108,000 gallons a month, which is a considerable amount of flow that you're being charged monthly for. So this spreadsheet just extends all of that out so that you can sort of see this is your cost per that, this is what that's costing you per month, and what you're seeing in your end result bill. Randy, if you'll scroll down just a little bit, I think the meat's right here. So if you look at the loan term, it's a $3 million loan at 2.45% 20-year term. Your annual payment would be right at $191,533, a 20-year term, and your closing fee is a $60,000 closing fee, and they charge a percentage of the borrowed amount on the front end when you go and decide to take the loan. So your total... your total loan cost would be right at $3,880,000. I think I'm reading it right. I guess I got it right in front of me. I could read that. $3,890,000. So to look at $50 per foot to be relined, what we had to do was make some assumptions. So roughly about available for construction would, say, be $2,400,000. That's assuming twenty percent administration layout construction engineering all those different things that would come in as administrative costs in the front end that's a little bit of a high estimate but that's we're trying to be conservative in our estimates and everything so looking at that you've got forty eight thousand linear feet of eight inch vcp that we could possibly rely on with that two point four million dollars That's almost all of the vitrified clay in the system. You have about 51,000 feet, 48,000 feet. We're going to find 3,000 feet that are in good shape. You line from manhole to manhole, and a segment from a manhole to manhole averages between 300 to 425 feet. In this town, you may have some that are 20, you may have some that are 50, but they average about 300 feet, and you can just kind of use that as a ballpark rule of thumb. So what we did was I broke that down into, hey, that's 48 1,000-foot segments because that's back to my base number that I went to. And so that's 10 segments at a half gallon, 10 segments at a gallon, 10 segments at a gallon and a half, 10 segments at two gallons, and eight segments at two and a half gallons. We have to start somewhere and assume there's leaks at that magnitude in there somewhere. We may only get all 48,000 feet, may only have a half gallon a minute per 1,000 feet, but that's probably not the case. I would imagine we'd be more about over 1,000 feet, almost five gallons a minute in some of these sections in the older pipe, but I don't have evidence to prove that to you, so this is a conservative estimate of what that would be. When we calculate that back out, we're looking at about... uh 320 000 gallons a year or 320 000 of of expense per year that you're paying in treatment for that water that is we're going to block out of the system without without that and that's 20 years worth of savings that you're going to wind up realizing over 20 years 318 000 in a year's time that you won't be paying in your ultimate sewer bill that you're paying to rocky mount for treatment And what it will allow you to do is to start seeing some of those savings come in, and you'll be able to see that demand. When we find a two and a half gallon a minute, not that you guys want me to call you and say, hey, we found five gallons a minute right here. You want to see the video of it. But that's what we'll have. We get excited about finding five gallon a minute leaks because we can fix them. And that's what this whole project is to do, is to go find those leaks and try to fix them. So we try to be conservative in what we have. Your debt service of $191,000 a year in exchange for roughly $318,000 a year in potential savings if we are on the low end of what we're expecting is fairly straightforward. You're going to get twice the savings that you would in what you're expending on it. You still need to do sewer rehab in one way or another. This allows you to finance the debt, and whether you chase it with loan debt service or coming out of capital fund or enterprise fund and using fund balance to fund a sewer rehab project some way, this just allows you to get the benefits today and finance them over 20 years, essentially. I will be happy to answer questions. I've got a I can make these numbers show you something different if we need to, but the bottom line is we had to make some assumptions somewhere on what the leaks would be. From what I've seen, we're probably pretty good on target with half gallon to a gallon a minute per more like every 500 feet is what I saw in the leaks that I've seen in the video we've done. We've done about 20,000 feet of video already, so we don't have to go back and re-video that. We know where to go fix in that part, but there's still... 25, 30,000 feet worth of video or sewer to video to get the eight inch VCP done. And you also have an ongoing need to video 10% of the system a year and TV and clean 10% of it. So this will scratch that itch as well for the next year's inspection. And I'm happy to answer questions if I haven't thoroughly bored you and confused you.

Well, explaining it was better than reading it. I have a question, unless Phil has a question.

I just wanted to point out what you have in your packet is different than what Mike has.

That's my question.

Again, we've got to check our software. It's not changing things before it publishes the packet like it's supposed to be doing. Because we replaced this spreadsheet with a revised one that Mike gave us. It didn't stick for some reason.

So ours is showing... a negative where we're not saving more than we're spending.

And we, we, we called, they called me and discussed that because on the front end, I said, well, I can't prove the leaks on, you know, million and a half gallon and a half, any of those kinds of things. And so we, that was a fair breakdown. What I originally had, I believe, and I can't remember what that version of the spreadsheet showed, but I had put that, uh, we had 400 sections cause I'd only used a hundred foot sections and everything else. So we, in the breakdown, we're really, we're really comparable, but the numbers don't really, you know, it's just a, we've got a better breakdown of a thousand foot segment. We're saying it's going to leak a half gallon a minute in a thousand feet. And that's, I mean, Every brand-new sewer would leak a half gallon a minute every thousand feet. So I just don't feel like that's realistic as far as I say brand-new sewer. That's not true. But it can very well be leaking from the manholes five gallons a minute through the wall, and it just looks like a drip here, there, and there. So you've got to understand that the sewer system is leaking. You have proof of it in your bills each month. And so we've got to assume something somewhere. When I first sent them the thing, and I had been overly exaggerative with the numbers, I had it saving you more money than you were paying Rocky Mountain in a year. Because you could make that argument that we could cut your sewer bill to very close to what you're actually pumping in sewer to Rocky Mountain as far as water and what you're buying from Rocky Mountain. But that's not realistic. You have flushing activities and everything like that. This project will certainly cut down the amount of use, but that spreadsheet doesn't account for the baseline flow that's coming in anyway from the customers and everything. So we came to this kind of and that's why you've got a version that wasn't quite right, and this is the third version, and that's why they don't agree. But I apologize for that. I didn't realize.

So what is the projected difference in savings and what we're paying on the loan?

So it's about $190,000 a year for the loan, and what we're projecting with this is about $320,000 a year in savings is what we feel is a conservative number. Now, that number, it will ebb and flow because we'll reduce it next year, and there will be less baseline. You'll have less to compare it to. But there's new cracks opening up every day when it comes right down to sewer.

Well, I was fine with even the lower numbers just because I was thinking that this didn't take into account any rate increases from Rocky Mount, which we know happen regularly and a great deal. It didn't take into account any emergency repairs that we have to do. on those, and it doesn't take into account locking in the price of the lining right now. So I thought we would pretty much break even anyway, including those. So I'm thrilled that we have even more savings.

There's benefits that that limited snapshot can't tell, but that's hard and fast. And you've got, this is 20 years worth of savings that's going to begin in year one, that you've got 20 years that you're going to pay off for it, but you should gain that 20 years worth of savings on the front end as well.

Well, it thrills me that we don't continue kicking the can down the road, and we're addressing some infrastructure that we desperately need. Anybody else have a comment? Anybody have any? Okay, Randy?

I did before the meetings pass out to the council, one additional sheet, just to give you a summary of the capital improvement projects we currently are undertaking and doing right now in our water and sewer. The first five are ones we're already doing. Number six is the one we're talking about doing. And, um, as was in the agenda packet, if you accept this $3 million loan from DWI at 2.4 or 5% interest for 20 years, That payment, along with the zero interest loan for number one, will be about $206,000 a year. And we're giving this information to UNC School of Government that's working on our current water and sewer rate study right now so that they can factor in this capital improvement project into what our rates will need to be in the future and going forward to sustain this kind of capital improvement that we're doing to our system.

I have a question, Mary.

I think I asked a question last time, Mike, and I forgot the answer. What we're doing, if we do this and we do, we do this in the next, I don't know, 12, 24 months, um, is only going to last us what? 20 years.

So the liner is got a 20 to 50 year service life. Uh, and, and eventually. you will see some sags and some breaks and things like that that will come into the system. But that's why you stay in front of it with cleaning and TV and you look at the inspections and you, okay, this is holding up good. We need to plan for five years from now we're going to have to replace this line and then you would dig and replace. You wouldn't want to reline a lined main. You know, digging and replacing is an incredibly expensive alternative because you have the asphalt above it, you have all the services and everything tied into it. This is what they call trenchless rehabilitation, which is less invasive. It lines it in place, cuts out the surfaces, and gets everything in there. So it is the cheapest option and the biggest bang for the buck to remove I&I but also to renew lines so that you get new drainage hydraulic profiles inside of it, smooth wall pipe instead of old vitrified clay pipe that's rough inside and has hang-ups and you have clogs and blockages and things like that. Um, but with proper maintenance and everything like that, I haven't seen where, uh, you know, liner is really, unless it's put in poorly and not done correctly. And we have a post inspection process where we inspect it, a video, the post and the post line section. So we can see there's no wrinkles, there's no bunch ups, the cut services are cut out well, and those things like that. Uh, there's no reason to think that it won't last that 50 years. And at that point it's, you need to have started capital improvement planning for replacement of some of those lines anyway, which will be eventual things that come up. I've seen, I've got lines that we've lined that are real large diameter that have been in service 25 years so far and haven't had any problem and they've fixed what the underlying cause was, which was a failure of the substrate pipe, the vitrified clay pipe that was cracked all to pieces, missing the whole top portion. I haven't seen any of that in that bad of shape in the video I've seen so far in Nashville. But we do have some cracked joints. We do have some broken bells. You have some offset joints that you just need to line because eventually as things settle and begin to, you know, you've got to... railroad track in town, and as the train cars come through, it settles and consolidates and makes joints offset, they're going to become worse leaks as they go forward, or they're going to become leaks when they're not leaks now. So you have to stay vigilant on the maintenance and mindset of it, and I think that's what, you know, you guys have shown a commitment to over the past few years with trying to get a hold of your I&I and do everything else. I think that It's paid dividends, and this has been the one we've been going after to try and get a big bite at all of it. You've got some bigger lines, and again, this was a $7.5 million application, and the $3 million was what they came back offering you. And I just wish more of it could have been principal forgiveness or grant, but this is what they're offering at the time, and it's a pretty good financial setup.

Unless they change to some kind of new product, in 50 years, potentially, the next people are going to have to redo it.

You've got aqueducts and you've got public sewers that are running in Rome that are you know, that are 500 years old, but they need constant, you know, and they just, there's a reason that they need, you know, they're either defunct and they've gone to a new technology or whatever. I had someone ask me today, he's like, well, who do you, you know, do you know who designed all this stuff originally? And I was like, well, I think some of the Romans probably did a lot of it. They were just asking me as a history question. And I said, a lot of this stuff is based on that exact same thing. It's just modern materials. Get 50 years of it instead of having dozens of people having to dig it up by hand and fix it. This allows us to extend the life of all these assets for an unknown amount of time, but hopefully certainly past our service life and our times to take care of it. We've got to take care of it while we're here.

Right. Is there, are there any municipalities in the state of North Carolina that have undertaken a project of this size, of this nature?

Oh, yes, sir. I mean, Rocky Mount does annual, they do annual lining and have a budget CIP every year. I can't remember what the amount was, but when I was in the city of Rocky Mount, we lobbied hard for an annual, I think it was a quarter million dollars. We tried to get every year in budget in order to be able to line sections of the bank because there were lines there that were 120 years old that hadn't been gone in for you know for 50 years and so we'd go in and find car batteries and car parts and things like that the people had just tossed in the manholes that had washed down the lines and look we were lucky that we didn't have um we were lucky that we didn't have more backups than we did you know but You find that stuff by having a vigilant CCTV inspection program and cleaning and TVing the portions of the main that you need. I've seen ones where You know, a hacksaw blade had gotten flushed down in a manhole somewhere, and it was stuck diagonal across the pipe somehow. And it was just they had blockage added every couple of years. They couldn't figure out why. They'd go and clear the blockage, and then we'd put TV inspection on it. And I said, well, there's a hacksaw right there. And they went in with a jet cutter and cut the hacksaw into pieces because it was rusted just enough to make the pressure washer cut it out. Cleared the blockage, hadn't had one ever since. So, you know, those little things like that, you just don't know what's down there. I've seen, you know, rodents in there, possums in it, you know, and old, you know, skeletons and live, you know, all over the place. So it's a lot of stuff that you don't know is clogging up the system that you got to go after and try and fix.

I hope we don't find no skeletons. Any other questions?

If we find one, I'll take a picture.

Any other questions? If not, do I hear a motion to accept the NCDEQ Division of Water Infrastructure, DWI, $3 million, 2.45% interest. 20-year loan offer to complete a sewer rehabilitation project that will significantly reduce I&I in the town's sewer collection system. I make that motion. Do I hear a second?

Second.

All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye.

Motion carries. Thank you all.

Thank you. And I just appreciate the council finally being proactive instead of we having to react to everything.

We either have to pay now or pay later. Exactly.

It'll probably be more later.

I know it will for sure be more later.

The next item on our agenda is the Essex Road Sewer Extension Loan. Randy?

Mayor and council, We have the ongoing Essex Road sewer project. installation project. HDR rentals and their subcontractor are nearly finished with that. When that project was let, it came back higher than what we had originally expected. When we submitted the application to DWI for funding three years earlier, it came back a total of $736,401. When we sent all that information to DWI, they wanted to know, if we wanted to increase from $95,000, well, first of all, we got 500,000 for that project in a forgivable loan, which is essentially a grant, and then the balance was $95,830 in a zero interest loan for 20 years. So when the project came back higher, they asked if we wanted to increase the amount we borrowed. And you guys said, yes, let's take a look at that. So that's what's on the agenda tonight. To proceed with increasing that amount for that zero interest loan will require a public hearing. in order to borrow the money and then adoption of resolution 2630 accepting the state revolving fund loan for $236,000 along with again the half million dollar principal forgiveness loan or the grant. And then with all that then TRESA can complete our LGC local government commission application and we can be on the LGC agenda for October six for approval to borrow the, uh, $236,000. Any questions for Randy?

I have one there.

Okay. Um, the 20 years just forgiven is that stay active for 20 years and then we have to pay the other 236 and if we don't, then that we, we, we're owed that as that works or.

Well, I think the way the loan agreement will read on that half million dollars, we have to complete the project and stay current with all the reporting that we have to do annually with NCDEQ. with regard to our sanitation, our sewer collection system, and if we do all that, then that debt is forgiven. I don't know if they track it for 20 years or not. Mike, do you know the answer to that?

I have not seen them track it past, you know, you wind up closing a loan for the 236, the 500, just never, that's what you have a balance that you're basically declining when you go and ask for reimbursements for up to 500,000, and after that, the loan starts kicking in. Okay. That's essentially it.

Any other questions? If not, do I hear a motion to hold the public hearing on borrowing the money for the Essex Road sewer extension improvement project?

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Is there anyone that would like to speak to this item on our agenda? If not, do I hear a motion to close the public hearing?

Move to close.

Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. In that case, do I hear a motion to approve Resolution 2026-30, accepting $236,401.50, zero interest, a 20-year repayable loan, and a $500,000 principal forgiveness loan from the project from the state revolving fund? Do I hear a motion to approve that?

I make a motion to approve it.

Is there a second? Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. The next item on our agenda is the RTP program grant application. Coy.

Good evening, mayor and council. Um, the first item we have for you today is a grant application for the recreation trails program or RTP. and who I have here with me today is Allison Griffin. Allison is a senior at NC State University, and she has also been interning with our department and has completed this application for the TAM. She's got a brief presentation, so I'm gonna turn it over to Allison for that.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

Good evening.

I'm Allison Griffin, and I appreciate the opportunity to intern with the Town of Nashville's Parks and Recreation Department. Part of my work has been to complete the recreational trails program application for the trails at Snowy Creek Environmental Park. The trails included are the same as the PARTIF grant. These include the paddle trail access, the hiking trail, the greenway, and the trail signage near the restrooms. Next slide, please. The recreational trails program request is for $100,000 with a match of $25,000. This $25,000 match is included in the part of grant. The overall project remains at $1.2 million. The funding plan includes $500,000 requests from part of the award meeting was last Friday. The governor should announce the results soon. This is the $125,000 request from the Recreational Trails Program. In October, Director Worrell will bring a $600,000 land, water, and conservation fund application for your approval. Director Worrell and I are happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions?

I have one. They're not, they're not like contingent on each other, right? There are, there's three different things we're gonna apply for. Is that correct? And we're doing one tonight.

Is that yes, sir. So if you'll recall, we submitted our part F application prior to May one. Um, and we are waiting on the, um, governs and governor's announcement on that, but we are very optimistic. This is the second grant that we were applying for in the amount of 100,000. that we are using that part F grant as the matching funds for you. And then again, we'll use both of those to apply for LWCF. But today is just just an RTD. Good.

And then we appreciate all your grant writing and helping us out to get all these nice amenities for our citizens. But thank you so much.

Any other questions? If not, we have one question just about the map. So in that legend, it shows what things mean, but I don't see the dotted orange line.

Yes, ma'am. So the dotted orange line is a hiking trail. Okay. Anything in orange on the map is future. So what we are currently applying for is in green. White is existing, and then orange is a future phase of the project. Okay.

So the green dotted line is what we're doing now.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Thank you.

So the bridge is not in anything, it's just future. Correct. Yes, sir.

If there are no other questions, do I hear a motion to approve submission of a recreational trails program RTP grant application for the Stony Creek Environmental Park renovation project?

Move to approve.

Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Thank you so much. Thank you, Allison. Thank you, Allison.

And we just want to extend our gratitude to Allison because she has worked very hard on that application. It is very involved. It's a lot of back and forth with NCDQ, Army Corps of Engineers, and she's done a very good job for us.

Are you related to the, is it David Griffin that helps us out? Yes, I'm his daughter.

Oh, okay.

I was wondering about that. I thought so. I thought so. Okay, thanks, honey. We appreciate you working with us. Um, the next item on our agenda is the pickleball court naming rights. Um, yes, ma'am.

So the, the second thing I have for you today is a naming rights agreement for the new pickleball courts at Glover park between the town and Brazil family farms. Um, it outlines the term for naming rights for the pickleball courts. Um, if approved, the town would grant naming rights for 15 years. for a lump sum payment of $25,000. The pickleball courts would be named pickleball kitchen serving up excellence. So we appreciate Brazil family farm support of Glover park and it's helping advance in the parks, recreation and cultural resources department's mission of improving quality of life through quality recreation amenities. And I will be happy to answer any questions you may have on that agreement.

That's fun. So it's not going to say Braswell at all in there?

So we will put a sign up at the entrance. We're going to put the name on there and put Braswell's logo below it.

Okay. For $25,000, I'd hope it would.

Yes.

I'm hoping it's a big sign.

We're also going to have two custom benches that will go inside of the courts as well. And I haven't heard from them what they want on those, but they'll get to pick the wording on those as well.

I think that's great that we've got somebody to give us that much money. Absolutely. I'm very thankful for the sponsors so far.

It's been great. So the 25,000, I spoke with you the other day about it. The use of what we're going to use the 25,000 for, is it going to be earmarked for Glover Park or for the Pickleball Court?

So the way it's worded is it's earmarked for Glover Park. So we will use some of those funds for the erection of the sign and for the benches. The rest of it will be kept separate along with the funds we received from Edward Jones for the playground and any future naming rights we get. And it'll be up to the council to choose how we use those. So we can use them for maintenance projects, if there's any capital projects, or of course for the pickleball courts itself when they need them.

Or for new attachments to our water park.

Yeah. I would just hope we would get into the second year and come up with a project where we just use up all the $25,000 at one time. I don't want us to do that. Yes, sir.

Any projects we'll bring before the council before using those funds?

So if there are no other questions, do I hear a motion to approve a naming rights agreement for the Global Park Pickleball Courts between the town and Braswell Family Farms?

So moved.

Is there a second? All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye.

Aye.

Recommendation and motion is carried. The next item on our agenda is stormwater ordinance violation fee. Sean?

Thank you once again, Mayor and Council. As you know, Section 38673 of the Town's General Ordinance gives us authorization where we have let people know about cutting grass clippings and blowing them out into the public street. Our Environmental Compliance Officer, Mr. Walter Manning, has been going out and informing mowing contractors that they do not need to blow their clippings in the street to please blow them back into the yard way. We did have a case a while back where he had told somebody maybe two to three times, and he was ready to do a penalty fine on them, and we found out in the ordinance that we had a right for penalties, but we never adopted a fee for violating it after your third or second time. We feel like he needs to... I'll penalize you for it. So Section 38711, it pretty much gives the authority to enforce the stormwater management ordinance. So what we are asking the council is to adopt a fee to our fee schedule of $100. I did check around the town of Black Mountain. They imposed a civil penalty of $50 per day for placing a blowing grass clipping leaves a yard waste under the bridge of the street. I checked the city of Wilmington, $250 per occurrence, and the city of Greensboro was the highest one in the state. $5,000. We think $100 is a reasonable amount for if we see a mowing contractor blowing clips in the street at the walk talks with them and tell them to blow them back in the yard to be able to penalize them at a reasonable amount for them.

Any questions? I have some questions. So when you say fine, are we finding the homeowner or are we finding the contractor who is doing the action?

Vice versa. If it is a homeowner doing it and we get a call on it and Walt catches them in the act, we would find a homeowner.

No, I mean, so if we have someone cutting someone's grass, it would be the contractor. It would be the contractor, not the homeowner.

Yes, because the one we mainly catch is down there by the gas station at Lower Washington. They come and cut grass and they have their crew. and what has to repeatedly go down and tell them blow your grass have we talked to the owner of the property to say that this is not allowed and your contractor is doing this he has sent letters to them also and there's i'm thinking and i think not knowing that they get a letter knowing there's not a penalty that's probably why they haven't really enforced to the grass cutting company to Once you get done cutting the grass, and we understand if you do that first row and you blow in the street, grass is going to go that way. That's understandable.

I would hope that the property owner would instruct the people that are working on their property to do it the right way. I guess my other question is, could we not start at like a $50 fine, and if it seems to not be working, then up it?

I don't have a problem with 50 a hundred dollars. Just the first one I thought of, but 50 would be great. I'm at discretion of the council.

I have a couple of questions also. Um, so how do we enforce it to a dude with a truck and a lawnmower?

When we get the call, most times we get calls from citizens that somebody is blowing clippers in the street. Walt goes out and does the investigation on it. And he pretty much sits there and watched them cut the grass, blowing the clippers. Then he goes up and does get them public education. Hey, The town warden says you need to not blow clippings in the public street. Could you blow them back? Now as I tell you, they tell Walter they're going to blow them back, but by the time he comes back about 15 minutes later, they already packed up and gone.

But they live in Castalia, and he's on a pickup truck with a lawnmower.

If we get the business name on the truck, we can pretty much enforce it. If not, Walt would probably have to go up there and ask them if he catches them, what's your business name? And then we'll have to do that, or either we will have to send a letter to the property owner, and then the property owner will have to either pay the town and then let the contractor know that, hey, I got caught for your actions. You need to reimburse me or either make the bill right next month.

I honestly think it would be more effective if you find the property owner, because then they would be out saying, you better do this the right way, I'm not paying this, or they hire someone else.

And we can do that. That's no problem.

Although I don't want the property owner to suffer for the actions of someone else.

And you get the guy, like you said, or the lady who comes with just a lot more in the truck, cuts the yard. He gets the fine.

He's not coming back.

Right. But we can send it to the property owner. I mean, Walt's been doing a good job with doing a lot of public education on this.

I guess we can try the contractor first, and if they don't pay up, then it has to be the homeowner.

So it doesn't say how many times we're going to warn them either in this case.

I think every time Walt catches somebody, if it's a repeat offender, that's what he'll send to final courts. If it's a one-time person, I would tell Walt don't final.

Yes. Mayor, just a quick comment. The town has broad authority to use civil penalties as a means of enforcing a variety of ordinance provisions. In the zoning and planning area, most of the time the offenses are on the property, continuous and ongoing on property. So in that case, clearly the town has the authority to take the position that both the property owner and the actual wrongdoer, if the wrongdoer is a contractor, could be subjected to the penalty. It's a little bit less clear when you've got a single-shot incident like a contractor's blowing weeds and debris. You would need to find some identifiable fault or wrongdoing. You might have a little difficulty saying that if a contractor of yours was doing these things, It's your fault, and therefore you have to pay you can impose a fine, but the issue is You can you can you can make it so but collecting the money is the end game and whether you actually Make it stick or not that's yet file a lawsuit in the nature of debt to collect civil penalties and a lot of penalties that do get put on record and imposed and notice to the owner of but those dollars are never collected. The object, of course, is to encourage compliance. But you would need, I think, the actual perpetrator, the actual entity that did the The committed violation is probably the first line of attack. But with a little bit more evidence, you probably could impose a penalty against the property owner as well.

Well, I'm just thinking if it's the same property owner that you're sending letters to, speaking to, saying that this can't happen, and it continues to happen.

And the vast majority of them are not public citizens. They're business owners. They have higher contracts that are bonded insured, that's cutting grass, that are coming in, they're doing 25 yards a day, so they're coming in cutting, and then that's when Walt's getting calls from either citizens or other town employees stating that they're blowing cleavage into the stormwater system.

So it should be identifiable who the contractor is who should be able to...

Since he's been in planning department for the past three, four months, he has not received a call on any private property. It's all been commercial property with business owners in that lower Washington area, or little Washington area.

So, Kate, do you want to address about the fee?

Well, what is your suggestion? Yeah, that's what I was going to ask the attorney. The contractor?

Typically what the ordinance would say is the party who committed the wrongful act or other responsible party or as to land use violations that are continuing and attached to the property, quite often the first, the first, entity that is noticed with civil penalties is going to be the property owner. So in my mind, I'm not sure how your ordinance reads in this respect. And that would have a bearing on who you may hold responsible and impose the penalties against. And if it doesn't say, if it just says it shall be unlawful, which sometimes is the way it's expressed, I would say generally go at the party that you see doing the blowing and consider perhaps the owner, particularly if they're repeated instances that don't get addressed.

Any other questions? We have to look at our ordinance to see what it says.

I'm a little uncomfortable at this point. I don't know. All right. How many times are we talking about? Are we talking about this happened once?

It's just down in that lower Washington area. We're getting calls from the Nash County officials. They see somebody that's sending pictures and emails. He's blowing clips in the stormwater system. Walt goes down there, does the public education. And then he asked the other day when we started working on this, about a month back, he said, when do we get to the penalty? I said, well, let's read the ordinance. And the ordinance says you can find a penalty. But when I looked in the fee table, we didn't have an amount we can charge. So I told him we can't technically fine them if we don't have an amount to charge you, saying that you violate the ordinance of the town.

You keep referring to the lower Washington area.

You talking about down under the hill down by the bridge, by the Hardee's McDonald's, the Rosemar sheets, Zach's resulted area right there that we get complaints on. It's very rarely we get a complaint on the residential side of Nashville. It's all in the little part of the MSD.

Do we have another fee that's similar to that?

The only one close that we have is the code enforcement administrative fee that we charge $150 if we go cut your grass. If I pull the word steam goes crooked.

And if we cut it, we go to the homeowner. Right. Or the property owner.

Property owner, correct.

So now that I understand, so you're sending a notice to like Hardee's or McDonald's, and that's why nobody's getting back. Can we not walk in and talk to a manager there?

He has done that. Okay. He has. He's done applicable things to try to get people to do it, but it's just that little area right that he gets the most complaints.

So do you want to establish a fee or just let it go? I mean, that's your option.

Well, I don't think the answer is let it go.

I don't either.

Mayor, if I may add this, the imposition of the civil penalty, and again, it's not a fine or a citation. It is a civil penalty. The statute is very clear. That's the means of enforcement. If it is a civil penalty, there's typically the ordinance says may impose. It's very discretionary. So this is not as though there is anything automatic in terms of the fee being due and payable. The imposition of the civil penalty requires the notice that you are hereby going to be charged a civil penalty. And then after that moment, usually that comes late in the process of trying to informally secure compliance. So it's not as though you're just simply saying forever and all time, it's going to be $100 every single instance. And John has no discretion because I think he does have discretion when those penalties finally are the resort of the town.

And we would want Walt to kind of treat it as he's been doing the trash cans. Send out some letters first and then let them know after that second one, hey, if the contractor continues doing this, you're going to get a penalty of X amount of dollars, whatever the count.

But you'd give them fair warning. Right. Oh, yeah.

We wouldn't do it on strike one. We would work with the Indian. Build a case.

Right.

The property owner or the tenant?

We would send it to the property owner and go in and talk with the manager. I would continue to tell Walt after he goes out there. talks with the contractor they also follow up and talk with the manager of the business down it comes to our department goes to the property owner we see if we know who the team it's not like they've hired somebody to do a job for them and they're doing it the wrong way they're the ones who are bringing it out bringing it back in or not or not

Okay, after the score, go ahead.

Please.

I would be inclined to agree with giving them fair warning, like you said. Yes. Not define them or penalize them on the first incident. Right. And as Kate alluded to, Lord, just start it off with $50 and see if they can't make some attention.

That's great. So do I hear that in the form of recommendation, a motion?

I would recommend that we would follow the procedure as to giving them fair warning, not to penalize them on the first incident, and when we do, say the second or third incident, choose to give them a fine, let the fine be at this point $50.

To the offender, the one that's doing the cutting. And I think if you can't find the offender, it goes to the property owner.

If you can't find them, yes, then you go to the property owner, but I think you'd be able to find them. Right.

The vast majority of the ones down there in that area use a licensed contractor, not the mom and pop style.

Oh, I second that motion.

All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries. The next item on our agenda is nuisance abatement. Review and approve resolution 2026-28, given a 60-day order to repair, stabilize, and demolish the house at 201 East Church Street. Sean.

Thank you once again, Mayor and Council. Over the past year, our code of course officer, Ms. Thomasine Jones, has received a number of complaints and calls regarding Ms. Larry Cochran's house at 201 East Church Street that appears abandoned and dilapidated. The complaints have primary concern of the appearance, condition, and continued deterioration of the structure as observed from the street. If you look in your packet, Ms. Johnson, the drive-by exterior inspection back on September 1st, 2025, based on the visible condition of the structure, staff determined that the property is in deteriorating blighted conditions and raised concerns regarding safety for human habitational use. under the Town of Nashville Minimal Housing Code. A notice was sent out to Mr. Cockrell advising him of a hearing scheduled for September 26th, 25 at 10 a.m. During the hearing, Ms. Jones explained to Mr. Cockrell the deficiencies observed and the property advising him to correct actions would be required. Mr. Cockrell was given a December 10th, 2025 to address the initial items identified as Phase 1 with additional follow-up dates scheduled for February 10th, 2026. On December 10, 2025, Mr. Cockrell requested to attend an additional meeting with Ms. Jones. During the meeting, he advised Ms. Jones that he completed the reasonable and attainable goals outlined for Phase 1. Ms. Jones specifically provided additional time for Mr. Cockrell to address Phase 2. I was identified in the following correspondence. During this period, Mr. Cockrell requested any requirements involving demolition, sustained renovation, or stabilization of the structure be temporarily paused. while the town considers the uncertainty surrounding the possible establishment of the historical district within the town of Nashville. On August 6th, 2026, Mrs. Jones also conducted a follow-up review and issued a conditional correspondence to Mr. Cockrell and defined the structure remained in substantial, the same deteriorated condition that conditions had worsened. Most notably, the entire front porch, which had a hanging facer and ceiling boards, created an increased concern for public safety, potential for harm to neighboring the properties that surround the community and the passerbys. Ms. Cockrell was again directed to take action either by demolishing the structure, repairing the structure to meet applicable codes, or stabilize the structure after obtaining all required permits from the Town of Nashville and Nash County. As of the most recent exterior inspection conducted on August 20th, 2026, Ms. Jones has served no meaningful correct actions towards demolition, repair, or stabilization. Based on the continued deterioration of the structure, Ms. Jones has concluded that the property constitutes a safety hazard and presents concerns related to life, health, and the public welfare. Several notes have been sent to Mr. Cockrell by certified mail, and these records indicate that these notes were delivered and signed for by Mr. Cockrell. The town staff is authorized to pursue the North Carolina General Station 160D, 1201, 1203, and 1210 to investigate dwellings in abandoned trusses that may be unfit for human habitation or present unsafe, unsanitary conditions, fire hazards, structural damages, structural dangers. threats to public health or safety or other conditions contributing to blight. State law further authorizes designated public officers to investigate dwelling conditions and enter upon premise for the purpose of conducting examinations in a matter that causes the least possible inconvenience to a person in possession. Addition 16D-402 and 403 authorize the administrative enforcement staff to conduct inspections and enforcement activities. And we did an assessed value of the property. As we stated, Mr. Cockrell is the owner. The land is assessed at $24,610. The structure is assessed at $16,810. The total assessed value is $41,420. The 50% value is $20,710. And the estimated demolition cost is $31,800. All of these information was provided by the Nash County Tax Office. Physical costs according to the National County Tax Card, the sense value of the structure is $16,810.00. Staff has determined and anticipated costs of creating the building and property deficiencies with the C. The sense value of the structure, the estimated cost to demolish the interior structure is approximately $12,000.00 to $20,000.00. The town council included in the $20,000.00 to FY2025-26 budget for demolition of the direct structures. If you look at page number 108 in your packet, That is the roof that has fallen into the ceiling on the front of the house. 109 also has other pictures of it, and also 110 has pictures of it. 111 is the letter that Ms. Jones sent out on September 10th. One page 112 is the additional letter Ms. Jones sent out on September 26th. Page 114 is the additional letter Ms. Jones sent out on December 10th. August 6th, 2026 is the additional letter that Ms. Jones sent out with a picture that the roof had collapsed, the front roof had collapsed off the porch and the structure of the floor had fallen in. If you look at page 118 in your packet, that is all the green card saying Mr. Cockrell has signed for the certified letter. And the latest one sent out is the tracking that we got from the United States Postal Service tracking website showing that it was delivered to Mr. Cockrell on January 17th, 2026. August 25th, if you turn to page 121 in your packet, you can see that I sent Mr. Cockrell a letter asking him to please be present at tonight's meeting. And Mr. Cockrell is here to talk to you. We also sent out and also delivered the letter on the property thanks to the town of Nashville Police Department by helping go out and serve the property, let the owner know to be here. And as of today, the letter is still on the front porch of the owner's property. If you ride by, you can see it. Page 123 is the resolution that we have drawn up, asking Mr. Cockrell that within 60 days either to demolish the structure, repair the structure, or stabilize the structure. And, of course, if he chooses stabilization, everything must be done per the North Carolina State Building Code and per what the National County Building Inspector or an engineer has provided, showing that it has been stabilized within the town. Mayor and Council, I will yield for any questions, and Mr. Cockrell is here to address any questions that you may have for him.

I just have one quick question regarding what you had laid out here. On page 106, you have the value, you have the estimated demolition cost as $31,800, but then a little bit farther down, you say the estimated cost of demolition is $12,000 to $20,000.

The estimated demolition cost is what Mr. Cockrell had provided.

Oh, okay. The 31 is what Mr. Cockrell had provided.

The 12 to 20 is what we've... Is what we pretty much think is what we could go for. But he had somebody go out, and that did not get pulled over in the packet. That was added in, so I don't know why it was taken out. But we had where he did have a contract, because that was part of phase one, to have a contract to go out and give him an estimated value of how much it would be, and they estimated it would be $31,000. 31,800 to turn the house down. The mayor and council said I will yield back to the council for any other questions. If not, Mr. Cockrell is here.

Where is he? Is he here? Blair, would you like to speak?

Yes, I would. You have five minutes. Oh, it's not. Okay.

Is it, was it agenda? There's a public hearing.

No, it wasn't. Okay. Okay.

Let me get a little organization here. Mayor council from day one, when I purchased this property, the ultimate goal has been for it to leave that lot. Every so often, since day one, I receive phone calls from realtors wanting to know if I want to sell them the property. I tell them I'll be more than happy to sell them that house, but the property that it sits on, the lot, does not go with it. They say, sorry, we don't have any interest. Realtors are only interested in the land for that property. That property is large enough to where it could be subdivided for at least two and possibly three more houses. So therefore, they're not interested in it. I have pursued through the historical people that we talked to back in December. They have given me some Randy, if you could, could you go to Street View? Yeah. Thank you. They have given me some people. As a matter of fact, one finally called me back today. It is a company by the name of the Reuse People. They are based in Oakland, California. They have regional offices all across the country. Their website listed one in Fayetteville. I found out today that that office is defunct, but they are reestablishing an office in Raleigh, North Carolina. What they will take is they will take that house, they will separate it from the lot. In other words, at that point, it becomes personal property. It is no longer real estate. They deconstruct, which is very different than demolition. I'm going to ask the council a question and just nod your head yes or no, or you can actually answer me. Town of Nashville is supposedly a very ecologically sensitive community, correct? We want things done the right way, as we just saw about not putting clippings in the street. that sort of thing. You've done a lot with the parks, trying to get them up to whatever, taking care of sewer, so forth and so on. If that house is demolished, you are adding several tons of usable product to a landfill. That's why I haven't had it torn down. I don't want it to go to a landfill. A realtor wants it. They want to come in and pick it up, move it off the lot, move it to another lot. That is fine. I'll make a real generous offer to them for doing that because they're going to incur a lot of expenses to do that, to deconstruct. If this comes to fruition. with the reuse people, they will come in, they will strip the vinyl siding off of that house. That vinyl siding will then go to a recycler and be recycled to make more products or whatever. The clapboard that is under that siding will be taken off. It will then go to a reuse warehouse like Habitat for Humanity or some of the other specialty shops that you see online that make furniture. They make signs, so forth and so on. The bones of that house are heart pine. The closest tree that I know of in the town of Nashville that is a heart pine sits across the street from Councilman Burns on the corner of Virginia Avenue and Austin Street. That huge pine tree where the scout cabin used to be, that's about four and a half, five foot in diameter. That is known, it's a loblolly, but it is also known as a heart pine. That tree is close to 400 to 500 years old. It's not a young tree. All of the timber in that house and probably a good portion of the houses in Nashville that are of circa 1890 to 1910, 1920, the bones of those houses are heart pine. Heart pine goes on average, according to what I looked up today, $40 a board foot. A board foot is The length of the board times the thickness of the board times the width of the board divided by 12. And then you can multiply it on average about $40 a board foot. That's why I haven't done a whole lot with this house. There are things in that house that are valuable in the state statutes. You give me a moment while I find particular one that I need in the state statutes. It allows you to take control of that house if I do nothing with it. And I know that. You have it demolished. You charge me for whatever it was worth. But in the state statute, 160D-1125, under enforcement, If the building or structure is removed or demolished by the local government, the local government shall sell. Shall means, and Raz, you can correct me if I'm wrong, shall means you will do it. It has to be done. Shall sell the usable materials of the building and any personal property, fixtures, or pertinences found in the attached building. The local government shall credit the proceeds of the sale against the cost of the removal or demolition any balance remaining from the sale shall be deposited with the clerk of superior court, the county of where the property was located and shall be dispersed to by the court to the person found to be entitled thereto by final order or decree of the court. So if you take the property, according to what I just read and the way I interpreted it, you can't just tear it down, put it in a dump truck, carry it to a landfill and dump it. You have to do due diligence and sell anything that's valuable out of that house. And I've already named those off. The vinyl siding can be recycled. The clapboard can be recycled as a building material. The bones of the house can be deconstructed and used to build other structures or be turned into pine flooring, furniture, so forth and so on. So also in the statutes, I found one other thing. You're giving me 60 days. I found another one under, and these are the ones that I looked up that Sean had listed. There is another subtitle in here that, and I'm trying to find it rather than giving me 60 days. That statute gives me 90 days.

Do you know the number of that?

That's the one that I'm looking for. Just give me a moment. And if Sean, that's why I gave a glance to Sean to see if he knew where it was because I've got it highlighted in here.

It's 160D. I've got it right here. I can find it. And what he's talking about is you give them 90 days. What we're saying is the 90 days have already exhausted. So that's why we're giving him 60 days to figure out a plan of action because we started hearing this case.

Where does it say that in that statute, Sean? And what number is it so I can find the copy that I've got? Give me one minute. I have to pull up on my phone.

Mayor and members of the board, let me just, or council, let me mention this. Claims have been made about whether the city followed a proper procedure or not. Some of these claims are legal in nature, and it's generally appropriate when you have claims made against the city for the council. and staff to first have confidential consultation with the attorney. That can be done in closed session or it can be done through communications, of course, that are not public records. But just I would advise caution in getting into a back and forth kind of a thing where a statement is made or a claim is made and we respond on the spot without having some involvement of legal counsel in that process, preferably in closed session with the members of the board.

Do you feel like we need to go into closed session? No, I mean, honestly, this is a, this is a hearing.

This is the opportunity for, for the statement to be made and for the points to be brought to your attention. We can investigate and take whatever you all feel is appropriate.

And that gave me pause enough to find what I was looking for. That is statute one 60 D dash one two zero three. It is under Article six and it's a and B, and this is, if it's determined that the repair of the dwelling render it fit for human habitation can be made at a cost, not exceeding 50%. Then there's a 90 day period. If it's determined that the repair of the dwelling to render it fit cannot be made. It's also a 90 day. And I have not found your comment about my 90 days have been exhausted.

Mr. Cockrell, I will say this and I will turn it back over to you, sir, but we started this back on September 26th, 2025. I'm not a mathematician, but I think that's more than 90 days.

If you ask me, I think his point is that, um, I'll wait.

Well, I'm going off of the premise of what is on the table for you to vote on night for the 60 days. is that does not give me a lot of time to deal with these people from California since they just returned my call today. And they're in the process of getting their people up to speed in Raleigh for her to come. Now, she may give me a call tomorrow. She may give me a call next Tuesday saying, I want to look at this house. We want to appraise it. They do an appraisal. so that they know all of those numbers, so forth and so on. Now, there's one other thing that came up out of all of this that I'm going to bring up, and that is the complaint from August the 6th, that letter. In your packet, and let me get back to where that one is, that is going to be page... I think it's this one.

It's page 116 in our packet.

Yes, August the 6th. In your packet, the picture on the back is a street view of that house. The letter that I was sent both in regular mail and in Sean Certified has a montage of pictures. of which you've already seen. This is what's in your packet. This is what I was sent. To me, that's a false document that you would put in your packet. And we want to go to what has been alluded to earlier for some other stuff that it just didn't stick. then that'll be your answer. But I see that as being a false document in your packet and you being misled. Now, if Randy would be so kind and pull up that montage of pictures, I have one other thing that I want to make clear for the council. In this picture, is that the first one, Randy? It is. All right. Go back to the one that's on page... I lost my note. I think the first one is on page 106, is it? 108. 108. This picture here. This picture here. There it goes. It was taken.

It doesn't work on TV. Red doesn't. Oh, red doesn't? Okay.

Now, I do. Under a knock and talk, which is what the code inspectors have to use, that is the walkway to this house. Now, if you're standing on the sidewalk and doing a picture and has zoomed in, there should be a tree in front of that, an oak tree to be specific. But all of this area here is known as curtilage. All of this green grass is known as curtilage. Look at the next picture, please. This picture here, whoever took it from the town is definitely standing in the curtilage. That land at the end of this handrail is at least two feet higher than the sidewalk or Collins Street. This view There is the end of the wall of the porch, and that is the handle of the porch. And that is trespassed because they were not given permission to be on that property when that picture was taken. That is out of the complaint that I made August the 19th. And if you look closely, it doesn't show up very well, does it, on the TV? You can see where the front porch is because it left where the steps are. Next picture, please. This picture was definitely taken out of the curvilage standing at the handrail. You cannot see that from anywhere unless you are standing at the railing of the porch. That one is definitely someone trespassing on that property, which is a violation of my Fourth Amendment. next picture please is that the last one it is okay those are the pictures that i was referring to in my complaint from the 19th thank you so in the response that i got from Mr. Lucas, he alluded that no one had been inside the house. That is true. Nobody from the town has been inside the house. But they did go on the property. They did go on the cartilage. And in case you don't know, curtilage is that portion of property that is associated with a structure that is not part of a public access. The public access for that house is to sidewalk down Collins street, the sidewalk on church street, and that walkway between those two concrete pillars that go through the front door. And one other little tidbit. This is the code officials handbook. This is the one that was printed April of this year. In this book, it tells Sean and all of the other code enforcement officers statewide what they can and cannot do. When it comes down to fourth amendment, there are six gray boxes that remind code inspectors of fourth amendment rights. There are, on page 35 through 41, there are six pages that specifically talk about trespassing, getting warrants, so forth and so on. And there are two chapters that are on fourth amendment and trespass. So, and this book, like I said, that is the latest and greatest. It is published by the school of UNC school of government, uh, in several council meetings, y'all have referred to getting information from them to clarify things that you're discussing. And so, I have taken that course in 1987 when I worked at NC state as a fire inspector for the state, we did not have to have the certifications, but we had to have the knowledge to go with it. So I have a, another set of pictures here that I take that I took today that show properties around town, but I'm not gonna take up your time at this point. Mr. Sandy may want it during his. And if he does, I'll give it to him. But there are properties with Clayton Homes. There are properties with Braswell Milling. And there are properties with Hurt LLC, the junction, that are in worse shape than mine. And there is town property at the cemetery the old caretakers home that looks even worse because it is completely fell in the town has used that particular spot to push up other debris and if i need to clean this up i think some other people need to be held accountable as well thank you

Mayor, you have, of course, two items that have similar issues.

I would just, you obviously, it's your discretionary call as to how to handle this procedure.

Why don't we just hear the other one and then do it together?

I was going to suggest you defer action, and then if you would like to have a session with counsel.

So we will not take any action on this at this time until after we meet with our attorney. Right. Is that okay?

And we'll go to Mr. Sandys.

Okay. Next on our agenda is nuisance abatement, review and approval, and it's 2026-2520. Ordering the abatement of the sited and non-addressed uses at 720 South.

I think you need to make a motion to defer it.

Okay. Do I hear a motion?

I make a motion to defer.

I hear a second. Second. Okay. Motion approved to defer. All those in favor? Aye. Okay. The next one, Sean.

Thank you once again, Mayor and Council. The 0.68 property located at 720 South Body Street contained approximately 23,608 square foot commercial building was cited by the town staff for a public violation of August 5th, 2026.

And for a- Sean, I can't hear you. Speak a little louder, please.

And for a delirium motor vehicle violation of August 6th, 2026. Town Code Force Officer Thomasine Jones and Town Orders Enforcement Officer Brittany Richardson identified accumulation of junk, scrap metal, and other miscellaneous materials on the property. Staff also identified a Delrutt motor vehicle that did not have a properly registered license plate, had flat tires, and appeared to be inoperable. Those violations were sent out first class and certified mail to the property owner and registered vehicle owner. Christopher L. Sandy and Wendy M. Sandy, directing them to correct the identified nuisance conditions and bring the vehicle into compliance with the town ordinance requirements. On August 18th, 2026, town staff conducted a follow-up drive-by inspection, off-site inspection on the property. The inspection was conducted from outside the property after the property owner requested that town employees not enter the premises citing Fourth Amendment protection. Staff sequentially provided information regarding the town's inspection enforcement authority under North Carolina General Statute 160D403E and all applicable local ordinances. On August 24, 2026, the town contract nuisance abatement vendor, Horn Landscape, conducted an offsite inspection to submit a proposal to abate the remaining nuisance condition. The proposed work included removal of disposal of scrap metal, junk debris and other materials identified as being in violation of the town's nuisance regulation. All equipment that it cannot be used to be manufactured prescribed label recommendation will be considered a nuisance also. The proposed cost to complete the nuisance abatement ranges from $500 to $1,000. Horn Landscape was unable to provide an accurate bid for the nuisance abatement due to the property owner's request that town staff contracts with other town representatives not to enter the property without proper legal authorization. Of course, if town council approves the cleanup by a doubt disordered, town staff will obtain the appropriate administrative inspection warrant before entering the property. Town staff and the town contractor will also coordinate with the Nashville Police Department for officers to be present during the abatement process. Any items removed from the property will be transported to the town national storage facility located at 933 First Street Extension, the site of the former town sewer plant. If you look at page 127 in your packet, You will see the letter that was sent out to Christopher L. and Wendy Sandy about the property and the nuisance condition. It was also told to clean the entire property, clean to the real property line, building materials, appliance, trash, and junk. If you look at page 128 in your packet, you will see the letter sent out about the deal rent motor vehicle that gave the property owner until August 26th to get the violations completed. A re-inspection will be done on August 18th. It was also told in that letter that on August 18th, if you could put an approved car cover on the car, that would satisfy the town. We do have the tracking from the certified mail showing that Mr. Sandy did pick the letter up on August 13th that it was delivered. If you look at page 131 in your packet, you will see the code violations when we went out on the day of the re-inspection, and you will see the same violations on 132, 133. For 134, you'll see the Subaru car, which had the flat tires and no plate on it, showing that it was a direct motor vehicle because it showed to appear to the town staff that it was inoperable and able to propel, self-propel, move as a car should. If you look at 135, you'll also see other materials out here. If you look at 136, you see a washer and a dryer, either a stove. We cannot tell what it was. You see a mini fridge out there. 137, you see a few other items. Of course, that's the bid. 139, that page is where we sent a letter to Mr. Sandy, and we also had it delivered to the property stating that he needed to be present here. And we went by today to do a follow-up inspection. That's what you have at your station right there. As of noon today, if you look at page one, and all this was done from the town's public right-of-way, the Nashville Junction parking lot, and the public street. If you look right here, you still see that there are accumulation of materials out there that Mr. Sandy has not addressed. On page two, there's some wood out there on the side of the building. Page three, you still can see the stuff against the cement blocks. Page three, you can see the refrigerator out there, the junk four-wheelers that look like they are inoperable. And page five, you see some other things out there, the accumulation of scrap metal that he's been scrapping. Town staff did tell Mr. Sandy if he could move those items into the warehouse, then the nooses case would go away because you would satisfy the town by getting rid of the eyesore of the scrap materials and the four wheels that look inoperable. Mayor and council, Mr. Sandy is here if he would like to contest or talk to the council or address any questions that you may have for him.

Before Mr. Sandy comes up, do the council members have any questions for Sean? If not, Mr. Sandy.

Mr. Sandy, 720 South Bonnet Street. Um... You know, we had a long-term thing going on, trying to handle the thing with shipping containers. On August 4th, that was shoved through here and tried to make it illegal for me to sell our building material, which is the shipping containers. And the very next day, August 5th, my property was invaded. come upon without rights and has been notified in December, also verbally and also in writing as an email, not to come on my property. But we were pounced upon that day. And I'm sure, Kate, you know what fruits of a poisonous tree, what that means. And anything associated with this, it's fruits of a poisonous tree, it means it's poison. So it's inadmissible. Not only that, it happened the next day after the council meeting. Now, who has an interest in attacking my business even more? Who's led this? This is just a vicious attack on my business. I got three violations that day. And this is a surprise to everybody. Build Right Supply is a building supply company. Now, the secret, we sell building supplies. One of the things that we sell is repurposed metal roofing. People use it for wainscoting. Look that up if you don't know what it is. Wall coverings, ceilings. I've sold this for nine years that I've been here. Four years before that, before I come to this wonderful town. And now somebody wants to determine after coming on my property illegally that this is junk. Also, behind my property, out of view and out of sight of everything, I have a scrap metal pile because we have things that come with that. You don't see it from the street, you've got to go on an expedition to see it or come on my property illegally. Now it's all of a sudden an issue. And I didn't know that we had an ordinance that says how much air pressure has to be in my tires. Also, it's a fleet vehicle that's in the stage of repair. It's got a timing head gasket that needs to be fixed. And we can start it up and drive around right now if you want to, but that's not in the ordinance either. And we've got a car cover ordinance somewhere. It says, hey, you need to cover up your car because if we fly with a helicopter, we might see it. Right, y'all?

MR. SANDY, IT'S YOUR TIME, SIR.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, THIS IS RIDICULOUS. IF YOU DON'T MIND, POP UP A FEW PICTURES I HAVE HERE JUST AROUND MY BUILDING. THAT VERY DAY AFTER THE MEETING ON THE 5TH, I WAS TARGETED. OF COURSE, IT WON'T BE YIELD WHO WAS IT THAT TARGETED ME, BUT WE HAVE SOME IDEAS, WE KNOW. AND THE PROPERTIES TO THE RIGHT OF ME, NOTHING. We've got the hurt properties over there. The building about to fall down. Building materials stored beside it. They're not in the building material business. We've got the other property with derelict vehicles. Oh, and by the way, my vehicles all have insurance on them in case something was to happen to them.

This is part of my fleet vehicles.

You can't open them?

Yes. Mr. Lee, you don't have it.

I quickly put it on there, and they were opening it up before I left, so you might have it. But anyway, you know, I can explain some of these pictures that I had on there. The town has some property that is in bad shape. The town has vehicles with flat tires. Look behind the police department. Over at the city shop, we got a truck over there, two of them. They're in disrepair, been sitting there. Why are they there? Probably going to be repaired or something. No different from me running my business. So that's not a violation. The other thing is, we come back to my storage building that I have for sale. It's not even mentioned on here. But we addressed that back in December, didn't we? And that was supposed to be cleared up, and all of a sudden, it's an issue again. These items here are not trash, and they're not junk. They're part of my business operation, and this harassment has to stop. And this town and the administration, and I don't know who's pushing this, is not above the law. We the people own this town. The residents and the business owners. And this has to stop, and this selective enforcement of codes and misuse and abuse of these laws that we have that are supposed to protect our interests has to cease now. And we're not gonna accept anything less. And there's a bunch of businesses now that are coming together that's gonna stop this. It's gotta stop. And if you have any questions about any of this, this is a misuse and abuse and fruits of a poisonous tree and we shouldn't even be talking right now. Because there's no ordinance and there's nothing that I'm in violation of because I'm here for this town. not against it, and I'm not some junk dealer. I've worked hard for all my life to have what I have, and this has to cease and desist. And if somebody has personal interest with me or objections to me and my business, handle it with me personally so this doesn't go to where it doesn't need to go. Now, any questions about these bogus infractions?

I don't think we have any, but thank you.

Thank you.

Mayor, I'd like to move that town council enter into closed session pursuant to North Carolina General Statute number 143-318.11A3 to consult with our town attorney in order to preserve the attorney-client privilege.

Do I hear a second? Oh, I second that, yes. Pardon? I second. Okay, all those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Okay, we'll go to the back room then for this. come out of closed session.

Move to come out of closed session. Second.

All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. The first item we're going to look at is the item concerning 201 East Church Street. Sean, did you have anything you wanted to say additional to that?

Mayor, I have no further comments right now.

In that case, do I hear a motion concerning this item

this um item on our agenda i make a motion that we adopt resolution 2026-28 however that we do so with a 90-day order to repair stabilize or demolish and so just fix that throughout the resolution

Do I hear a second? Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye.

Mayor, may I have a few minutes if I may? Yeah. Mr. Cockrell, if you'd like to, we will send you a letter of a list of people that can get in contact, that you can contact, that will be able to come in and give you the sense value to take things out of it that you think are still usable, sir. Okay. And we'll see that you...

In order for it to go to... In order for that to go to the reclamation people properly, they have to be certified appraisers for historical properties.

Right. We'll send you a list of areas. We're going to get you in contact with Christy Brantley. I believe you met Christy at the meeting we had. We're going to put you in contact with her and let you and her work out who to get in contact with.

All right.

So do I have a second to her? Okay, all those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Then the next item that we're going to address is the usage abatement that was concerned with 720 South Body Street. Do I hear a motion concerning that item?

Yes. Instead of adopting the Ordinance 2026-2025, I would like to give 60 days to clean up anything that is not related to wholesale business supply or contact Sean for a change of use.

Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries. Thank you so much. The next item on our agenda is... It's the vacant town county council seat and we're to discuss and decide how to fill the late council member Xavier Harrison's elected seat on the Nashville Town Council.

Mayor, if I may. I would like to offer up the name of Jaquetta Harrison to fulfill his term. Mr. Carter is the widow of Xavier. She is an educator. She's a longtime resident here in Nashville. And she would like to, is willing to fulfill his term. to finish out his term in his honor. So I would offer up her name as a person to take his place. And he has been a president in the town of Nashville. We have done this three times in the past for other council people that have passed on and their dependent has finished out their elected term. So I would offer her name up as a person to take his place.

Any comments or questions?

To my knowledge, it has not been done any other way. It has consistently been requesting the spouse to do so. And, Larry, I believe it's my understanding, too, that there had been discussions between Xavier and his wife that he wished for her to fulfill the term if he could not. And so if she is willing to, I think that that would be the direction I'd like to go.

So do I hear he made a motion? Do I hear a second?

Second.

All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye. All right. So she'll have to be sworn in. You'll let her know, Randy.

Yes, and we'll probably have to do a good degree of bringing her up to speed, unless her and Xavier had a lot of discussion about it.

I would assume so, and that was part of my reasoning. You know, this is the person who's been the sounding board for the last two years. That's true. She's already had a lot of information.

In the conversation about the schedule, make sure that it's accurate.

Yes.

Are we allowed to change the schedule at all?

If you are, we'd have to do it, change the schedule, and then post it. How much advance?

I think that maybe she, just once a month, I think her principal will let her come for about approximately two hours because this Wednesday meetings have been such a blessing for people that travel out of town. And I have so far to drive back home and everything.

We'll work those night shifts.

So it's really been great. But I think our principal will work with her. I really do. That'd be great. Maybe you can speak to the principal. But anyway, if not, I think he will. I just believe he will. Any other comments from anyone about the meeting? agenda item?

I have one comment. There was an article in the paper, so I want to address that with addressing another similar topic. And just for me, if I receive a group text or a group email from a citizen with a paper, I'm not responding. So this is fair warning. If you want to send me a text personally or email personally or call me personally, I'd be happy to talk to you. But I don't respond to group text for the sake of the rules that are set up to us.

And so just to make that awareness to the people I've...

I had a citizen that told me that, that she was concerned that I didn't respond, and I said, you know, singly respond to me, and it's been no problem. So just to make sure it's clear.

Yeah. Good. Thank you, Bill.

Mayor, one more. Referencing back to Xavier Harrison, many people don't realize today at 11 o'clock, Representative Don Davis spoke in honor of Xavier on the House floor. And if anybody would like to chime in and look at that, you can go to YouTube. Lou, what was that address I gave you?

We did it on Facebook.

We found it on his Facebook account.

And not his election one. His one that gives out all his information.

Okay, it's up there too.

Any other comments? Thank all of you for being here. If there's no other business, do I hear a motion to adjourn?

If there's no further business, I move we adjourn.

Is there a second? Second. All those in favor, let it be known by saying aye.

Aye. Meeting is adjourned.