Planning and Zoning Meeting - Regular Meeting

So do I need to? Thank you, Christian. I don't know.

We were just talking about that. I said anyone.

No, you're good. You're good.

Okay, I have six o'clock.

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Now you can? Okay. Okay, I've got six o'clock. It is time to start our meeting. First, I'd like to welcome everyone to the May 26th, 2026 Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. We'll start with a roll call, please.

Dean?

Here.

Copeland. Here. Kirkman.

Here.

Morgan.

Here.

Kehoe.

Here.

Turner. Daffer. Miller.

Here.

Garner. Here. Seven present.

Thank you. Rodney.

Mr. Chair and Commission, Rodney Ashby, Planning and Zoning Director. For the record, So City Council on their May 18th meeting had several plats that were approved. So the first one was Fenway number two, which you had recommended approval and they did approve. The Happy Valley Industrial Project was recommended for approval and was approved. And finally, the Seven Maples Ranch subdivision was recommended for approval and was approved. And then onto the public hearings we had for the first public hearing was for a variance to code. And I probably need to explain this a little bit. Pioneer Irrigation has changed their policy and so in the past they allowed lots that were a part of a subdivision to include the easement as part of their lot. So a single family home lot. but now they are requiring that those be in a common lot. And so that was done after the preliminary plat was approved. And so when they came back for this final plat, they needed to go through a variance process because of the lot sizes being too small for what our zone requires. So that's gonna be taken care of in the long term, in the future. because the developers will design the project accordingly with the common space against that pioneer irrigation easement. But for this one, they needed that variance. And so city council did approve that variance. Next is annexation and zoning for Oaks Landing. You had recommended approval. This is northwest of Hunt Avenue and Middleton Road. You recommended approval and city council approved it. Next and final one is annexation and zoning for four industrial properties, IL zoned, at 172218200 East Iowa Avenue. That's northeast of Iowa and Powerline Road. And this was to continue to operate the Clearwater Landscape Construction Company, and you had recommended approval in March, and City Council approved it. That's all I have.

Thank you for moving the screen back.

Yeah, we heard it was too close. It was. I have to admit, I did not do it. I didn't think you did.

I didn't think you did.

Okay, we'll go ahead and move into the public hearing portion of our meeting.

Consent agenda?

Yes.

Consent agenda. Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Second.

It's been moved by Garner, seconded by Kirkman to approve the consent agenda. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kirkman. I appreciate that. Okay. So for any of you who have not been here, the way this works is we'll call the applicant up. They will have seven minutes to tell us what they want to do. We'll turn the time over to staff. They'll tell us what their findings are. Then we'll open it up for public testimony. We would ask that when you come to the mic, please give us your name and address for the record. And then as you're sitting waiting, we'd ask that you please keep the conversations to a whisper. The meeting is being recorded and it is live streamed as well. And those whispers and talking in the crowd pick up pretty well on the mic. So it makes sometimes, um, what we're saying on the mics, uh, almost inaudible. So, um, just respect others as they'll respect you. So we'll get, go ahead and get rolling with, uh, item three dash one, a conditional use permit for non-commercial daycare and RS six zoning district addressed at 17, zero five, zero North Genowit Avenue for Kevin Rook Mira. Is the applicant here? Go ahead and come on up.

Is that Kevin?

Could you move the microphone down, please? There you go. Thank you. Speak into it. Yeah.

And I'm here because I want to take care of the children.

I'm a parent. And after looking around, I realized there is no daycare near there.

Because my neighbors take their children to Boise and it's quite far.

Yeah, I realize I need to do that because I also need to take care of my children.

That's my request, if possible, if you can allow me to do that work. Yeah, I cannot do a regular job because I have to take care of my children also. I realize if I start that, I would combine the daycare and I would also take care of my children.

And I don't want to go to do some job which is not legal. That's why I decided to go that way and look for some daycare. And that's all I want to say. Thank you very much.

Thank you. How much experience does she have with the children?

Is it my children or all children? All children.

In a daycare situation.

It's 12. 12 years experience.

12 years?

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Watkins.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. I am Christy Watkins. I'm the principal planner for the City of Nampa. The request before you this evening is for a conditional use permit for an in-home daycare for up to 12 children as a home occupation. The property is in the city limits and is zoned RS6. It is in the Franklin Village number eight subdivision. All of the surrounding land uses are single family residential with a school and a park in the near vicinity. Access to this property is along a private driveway that serves two houses and terminates at the edge of a third driveway. The residence has a two-car garage with a two-car driveway. As far as ownership goes, the assessor records show that Kavane Rukumera took ownership of this property in 2022. These are the applicable regulations for the conditional use permit. So there are four criteria that you need to find to be met to approve this conditional use permit. According to our schedule of uses, a home occupation daycare up to 12 children does require a conditional use permit in the RS zone. It will also be required to register as a home occupation. And we do have home occupation standards in regards to businesses in the home, how many employees they can have, parking situations, noise, those kinds of things. As far as correspondence, we did receive a couple of public comments regarding traffic, parking, and maneuvering within that common driveway, safety for the children, and parking in general on the roads around the property. Also, traffic, noise, parking, safety concerns, compatibility with the neighborhood, and multiple instances of police activity at this address. The police department did provide an incident report dated from January of 2023 to August of 2025. Staff did request some details about this most recent incidences which did end in August of 2025 I did talk to the applicant and she stated that this person no longer lives at this residence And so there haven't been any calls since last August The develop or the engineering department talked about how many trips this would potentially generate and that would be if she actually had 12 children and A lot of times we just give the conditional use permit for up to 12 children, but that's not actually how many they're going to be watching. So, you know, it could be five to 10 times increase for a typical single family residence, depending again on how many different families are dropping their children off. Code compliance has stated that they have some weeds that need to be cleaned up. The building department has required that they will need a building permit based on title for building regulations for children. And then the fire department has also. stated that childcare is not allowed on the second floor of the property, the site plan that she provided for the. House shows that there's an area above the garage that they could potentially be in, but the fire department has said that they can't be on the second floor. So that's one thing that we need to make sure that she understands in the conditions. So for proposed findings, with this conditional use permit, the proposed primary land use is supported by the comprehensive plan. It does provide a daycare service that does fit within the local and residential commercial land uses within proximity to neighborhoods. The comprehensive plan also talks about protect the positive qualities and characteristics of neighborhoods, ensure public safety, and to be in compliance with building safety and facilities, and so they would need to have the home occupation registration and a building permit, and they would need to meet our fire district codes. The design, construction, and operation and maintenance of the property and project will not adversely impact the intended character and appearance of the general vicinity. Some facts for that. The property is currently in the city limits and zoned RS6. All the surrounding land uses are single family residential. Daycare is allowed in the RS zone with a conditional use permit The property will remain residential in nature. The primary land use will be served adequately by essential public facilities and services. There are public facilities and emergency services and utilities available to this property currently. The proposed use will not involve activities and processes, materials, equipment, and conditions of operations that will be detrimental to any person's property or general welfare by reason of excessive traffic, noise, smoke, fumes, glare, or odors. Again, access to this property is along a private driveway that serves two houses and terminates at the edge of a third driveway. The residence has a two-car garage and a two-car driveway. The neighbors are concerned about the challenges for parking and maneuvering in this area. These are the recommended conditions of approval that state the building department and the fire department requirements. These are your potential motions. I'll stand for any questions.

Christy, have you actually spoken directly to this lady?

Commissioner Kehoe, I have spoken to her on a number of occasions. Communication is a little bit difficult, but I have spoken with her, yes.

Okay, and is health and welfare involved, or are they aware of the language barrier? What I'm thinking about is if there was a fire, would she be able to communicate to people what to do?

Well, as far as health and welfare goes, that's a state licensing agency. So if she was going to be getting a daycare license, she'd have to work directly with them. I don't know what they know about her communication challenges. So I don't know.

All right. Thank you. Not the answer I wanted to hear.

I didn't ask her about that question, but I did walk her through the staff report, and I did show her the memo from the fire department, and I flagged everything so that she could read through it at her leisure, just so that she would know what they were requiring from her.

All right. Thank you.

Yes. Just a clarification on Kehoe's question. Is health and welfare involved at this point since it's non-commercial or do they get involved with any type of daycare? Does she need to be licensed with health and welfare?

Commissioner Kirkman, I don't know how the state does that. I think that she does when she's up to 12 children, she has to have a state license. If she wants to have state funding for food, she has to have a state license. So there are some triggers that will cause that.

Excuse me, one more question. At what point in this process, and maybe it's in the home occupation stage, is is the number of children considered too much or for the size of the home does that make sense i mean 12 12 additional kids in a three-bedroom house as a daycare not that this is a three but if that were the case does that is that where we consider that here or is that considered at what stage um commissioner kirkman we don't our code doesn't really apply to square footage

we don't have anything that dictates a certain size home can do these things and so when it comes to a daycare it's really about the children the number of children and a lot of times you know it's a person's own children so children under the age of i think six or seven are counted in that above that age they're not counted in that so they could actually watch an additional 12 if their kids are over a certain age so it we our code really doesn't dictate the size of the house.

Because I was just thinking in terms of public safety, I mean, certainly those kids that are going to a daycare, I would think that at some point that should be considered. Is there too many kids for the size of the structure?

So, Commissioner Kirkman, there are rules in the fire code for how it's an occupancy load.

Okay.

And they look at the house, they look at the ingress, egress. So sometimes a house, if the fire department goes in and determines that they've got a certain number of kids, they might make them switch out their doors for better egress. They might look at the windows. They might look at the electrical setup in that room. They'll look at all of those different things. And then I think they base it on a head count for occupancy.

Right now, that's where that lies. Okay. Sorry. One additional comment. If, Whoever's phone keeps going off, could you silence the phone? It's really getting to be distracting. It just makes you sure your phones are silenced. And Mr. Chair, thank you for the indulgence. That's all I have.

Thank you. Okay.

Thank you.

Do we have a sign-up sheet?

We do. We have Michael Fuller.

Michael Fuller, 17038 North Gwinnett Avenue, the neighbor directly adjacent to the proposed daycare location. I'm going to read because I have a lot of notes and I don't want to jump around or do anything like that. So I request that the commission carefully consider the applicant's documented history of noncompliance with the subdivision CC&Rs. as well as the repeated police presence and calls for service associated with the subject property when evaluating this conditional use permit. While I understand CC&Rs are private covenants and not necessarily part of the basis for zoning decision, I believe the applicant's repeated violations demonstrate an ongoing pattern of disregard for the standards and expectations established within this residential community. The property has remained in continual violation of multiple covenants related to property maintenance and upkeep, including the accumulation of trash and debris, broken glass, and other conditions that create potential safety hazards. In addition, the property has failed to comply with the landscaping requirements contained within the CCNRs, specifically regarding the required maintenance and completion of the backyard area. I would also note that Section 4.9C of the subdivision CCNRs prohibits any business activity that involves persons coming onto the building lot who do not own or occupy the building lot. While I understand the enforcement of private covenants is not directly within the commission's authority, I believe the existence of this restriction further demonstrates that the proposed use is inconsistent with the original intent, expectations, and residential character of the subdivision. In my opinion, continued noncompliance with existing contractual obligations should reasonably call into question the applicant's future ability and willingness to comply with operational conditions, restrictions, and requirements that may be imposed by the Planning and Zoning Committee as part of any conditional use permit. There has also been repeated law enforcement activity associated with this resident's approximately 16 documented disturbances or police responses within the past four years since the resident has taken occupancy. The incident count and general nature of these responses were obtained through a public records request submitted to Nampa PD by myself. According to these documents, the responses involved incidents related to aggravated assault, domestic disputes, resisting arrest, disturbing the peace, welfare checks, and missing person matters. Additionally, a man who periodically resides in the home who has been listed in the reports has been accused and arrested on suspicion of theft for breaking into vehicles in the neighborhood. To my understanding, he is the individual that applicant is claiming no longer resides at the home. This has been true in the past as well. And in at least one of the incidents reports I obtained from the police department, the applicant stated that he has no other family in the area. So when he is released from custody, he contacts them to come live in this home. Beyond police activity- Mr.

Chair, time.

Okay. Thank you.

No other signups.

Is there anyone else that would like to speak? Come on up.

Mr. Chair, while the speaker comes up, may I make a proposal for the order of this particular hearing? We do have a translator interpreter here. to afford a fair and meaningful opportunity to translate thoroughly so that they have a chance to rebut at the end. May I propose that we add an additional two minutes to each presenter and maybe some pauses intermittently. We could have the interpreters just so the due process right for the applicant is fairly made. Noted, appreciate it, thank you.

I was gonna say, you can give him two more minutes if you guys want that.

I think he's grandfathered in.

Sorry. Mr. Chair, that would be appropriate if there would be more time, again, for the interpreter. It's more for the applicant. It's their due process, right? An extra two minutes would be appropriate under these circumstances.

Okay. I'm okay if he goes up again. Is that all right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll try to keep this last part briefer.

Sorry. Um, beyond the police presence, I have personally witnessed many situations that arise that have arisen from this that raised serious safety concerns for Children in the area. Um, my wife witnessed last summer Children locked outside in the heat of summer when she went next door to contact the adults. They had no idea that the Children were outside or that they were without water or locked outside in the middle of summer. On another occasion, two summers ago, the residents contacted me directly to assist in attempting to break into their car that was in the garage with children locked inside. Additionally, there have been safety concerns regarding the mental health and cognitive health struggles within the household. I don't bring that up to mischaracterize that. However, the individual that the applicant has presented to us at many times as having mental health issues, has thrown shovels, pickaxes, other yard tools into our yard when my children and children of my friends have been in the backyard playing and it does cause a safety concern. I recognize the stressful situations, isolated incidents can occur in any household. However, when considered with the repeated police presence, ongoing covenant violations, and the nature of this request to be a daycare-related conditional use. I believe these documented and personal observed incidents raise legitimate concerns to regard regarding supervision, judgment, property conditions and overall neighborhood safety impacts. For these reasons, I ask you guys to deny the conditional use permit. Thank you.

And Chairman, for me, just as a reminder, if the speaker, whoever testifies, if you could pause intermittently to allow the interpreter to catch up, that would accommodate for the extra two minutes. It's not just a general extra two minutes, but to accommodate for gaps in time.

Sure. And if you guys have questions along the way, we're ready to answer any questions, too. I'm the neighbor on the opposite side of the house, so I'm 17062. We've been in the house for about four years. My name is Zach Reitinger. My residence is 17062 North Gwinnett Avenue. So if you're looking at the house, I'm the house directly to the left of them. As my neighbor was saying, there's been a lot of different problems that we've experienced with them since we started. He said it a lot more eloquently than I did. We've had cops called to the house multiple times. We've had SWAT enforcement. We've had people barricading the door. Like he was saying, there's people that have brought things over our fence. We've had knives. We've had forks. We've had sandals. We've had shoes. We've had hangers thrown into our front yard. To our understanding, this is due to the grandmother. Hold on.

Go ahead.

Sorry. I'm just waiting.

I'm kind of eyeballing the interpreter to make sure he's He's catching up. Looks like he's caught up.

Okay. So with that, there's just been a lot of things that have been suspicious throughout there. Um, also we've had repeated offenses just with their children. Um, whether it's a cultural barrier, whether, uh, there's a difference, there's multiple times where the kids have been left outside of the house. Uh, one incident, Mr.

Chair, the interpreter is asking for.

Sorry. Can you hear me? Sorry about that. Um, Can you hear me? Okay. There's also been multiple times that the kids have been left outside of the house. One that they mentioned was it was their two year old child that was left outside of the house for about 20 to 30 minutes before they even knew. And the child repeatedly was inside of the car honking on the horn to let them know that they were in there and they still didn't get out of the house to go pick them up. So part of our like concern is one, their own welfare of their own children. There's also been multiple times where their kids have been outside the second story window, hanging outside the second story window without the screen. And then also multiple things that they mentioned about the backyard. It's still not finished. And the front yard. They leave tired to leave the other things inside of there. So just with the way that they have approached their own residency shows their inadequacy of being able to take care of themselves and their own children. Therefore, we deny the response of them starting a daycare taking care of other children because of putting them at risk. He also mentioned a couple of different people of the incidents of theft. There have been multiple different incidences of them having people of police being called. One, we had SWAT on our front line. There was about five of them and they all infiltrated the house and they had to pull out the grandma because she couldn't understand and there was a lot of other different issues. with what we think is mental disorders, which potentially was considered schizophrenia based on the police report. So again, this is going to be children in front of those people that are still involved in the house, as well as the people that were stealing and having theft. So we think the character of the people that are in there would not be eligible to be able to have people in the background. Hopefully that was kind of a helpful synopsis of what they've been struggling with. There's been lack of compliance throughout that too. My neighbor kind of said it nicely, but there's a lot of times where they park in front of his house. They don't really disregard anything else. They've taken stuff out of his driveway. They've done other things that are just unethical and just left stuff in front of the driveway as well. So it is our position as being the neighbors that are both beside them that they do not allow the state care to happen. I don't know if you guys have questions for us or wanna elaborate on anything. I think so, thank you. Okay, thank you guys.

Is there anyone else that would like to testify for, against or undecided on this item? Okay. Let me get you guys to go ahead and come back up. Okay, now is basically her opportunity to rebut anything that's been said and give us her thoughts and feelings on them.

Yeah, they said many things, most of which are not true. A child sometimes can sneak outside of the house, but it would only take a short time to know that the child is outside. And the person they are saying was making police come, we are no longer having him there.

He is out of the house.

Even when we were living with him, he was bothering us so much. I don't know what they meant that the neighbors wouldn't want such a daycare activity being done there. I don't know because maybe I came from another country. They think we don't know how to take care of children. Yeah, you can't say I'm not able to take care of children.

when I'm already having children who depend on me for care and protection.

If you can allow me to have a daycare, there will never be a time when you shall see those children roaming outside. That's a job I'll do and I'll do it as good as I can. If my neighbors, there is something that made them unhappy, we can always rectify that.

Yeah, I'm happy for that opportunity, and I'm done.

Okay, do we have any questions? Yeah.

Yeah, Mr. Chair, I've got a couple of questions, and these are some clarifications that the Nampa Fire Department would like, and maybe it's been clarified, but what are the anticipated ages of the children in this state?

From five years and above.

To what age? Like five to 12 or five to?

Up to 12 years.

Okay. And then what hours of operation do you plan on operating the daycare?

Okay.

It depends on the parents what's the time they want to come and bring their children and come and pick them back.

So it's just open to whenever the parents can get there to pick the kids up.

Yeah. Yeah, but it depends on the parents. Other questions? Yeah, Mr. Chair. Yes.

Who lives at the home now and will they be there during the daycare operations?

It's me and my husband. Her and her husband.

there's concerns with an individual that used to live there and it sounds like that individual, tell me if I need to pause, that that individual has left and come back before, what assurance can we have that they won't be back this time?

Yeah, we agreed. I even talked to the health and welfare and told them I don't want him because when he is here, I always have some headaches because he makes a lot of noise.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, can I follow up on that? Is there a no contact order for this individual that he can't return to this or is it just?

Yes, there is no contact order.

There's a no contact order in place for this individual not to return to this home?

Yes, it is there.

Can you speak to the incidents of things being thrown over the fence?

Yes.

I'm not sure about that because maybe it could have happened when I was at work. Even my neighbor never even told me about it. And does the grandmother live there also?

Yeah.

Okay.

So will she be there during the day also? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Thank you.

Questions. Okay.

Thank you.

Mr.

Chair, I move we close public opinion, public hearing. Thank you. Second.

Then moved by Kirkman, seconded by Garner to close the public hearing. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. Public testimony is closed. What are our thoughts?

Our thoughts are that this should not be up to us.

There's a lot going on here. So, Christy.

Mr.

Chair. If a CUP were issued and this certain individual did return and police were called, could the CUP be revoked at that time?

I think I would defer to our attorney on that one. Chairman, I'd be happy to take that question. Thank you.

He's ready for it. Yeah, I thought that might come up. In these situations, it's a conditional use permit. The nature of this allows a little more latitude on conditions that can be imposed, hence the term conditional use permit. We heard evidence here stated into the record that wasn't refuted that this person has a no contact order. A condition could be made hypothetically where a person could be disallowed from the premise. It would need to be narrowly tailored. What that means is it cannot be a blanket. This person can never come on the premises, but rather during business hours, for example. That's an option that could be considered here in your deliberations.

So, Mr. Chair, can I ask, while you have the mic, the thing I'm struggling with is we're the land use body. And is it okay for a daycare to be in this home? Are we also able to judge whether or not this home is a good place to have a daycare? Does that make sense to nuance?

Yeah, Chairman, I'll defer also the planning and zoning here. I may chime in just a little bit. A conditional use permit by state code says it cannot be in conflict with the comprehensive plan. As was presented in the staff report, there's elements of the comprehensive plan and I would refer to, it looks like page eight of your packet, at least the one I'm looking at, that references that it is the purpose of the Nampa Comprehensive Plan is to promote the health, safety, and general welfare of the people of the city of Nampa, to protect the positive qualities and characteristics of the neighborhoods, to ensure public safety, and so on and so forth there. So yes, the comprehensive plan cannot be in conflict here with an approval. So those are factors you can consider, but there is a record here that's been built addressing that. Questions have been made to the applicant, feedback given back to you, and that's up for you to determine if the health welfare has been addressed adequately as you see fit.

Mr. Chair, and on that note, yes, the question was specifically asked, what hours of operation, and the response was, there's no set hours of operation. And that's the reason I asked that, is if we could condition that a particular individual not be there during hours of operation, the concern is that there's no hours of operation. It's whenever the parents can be there to pick the kids up. And that's what concerns me, is that there's, without those parameters in place, how could we condition? And we don't know the individual. We don't know the specific individual's name or anything like that. So how could we condition something like that in a...

Right. And Chairman, I may chime in on that too. There's kind of a little wall here, right? You guys are the decision, you know, the recommending body. It's a glass wall. for that question, a condition could be imposed by you on hours of operation. You're not required or beholden to conditions they propose. You can propose conditions you see fit that would make this compliant, not in conflict with the comprehensive plan. And then it's up to the applicant or affected persons to decide if that's acceptable or not. And that's why there's appeals in that due process right there, everybody.

Well, we have you on the hot seat.

Keep them coming. What do you got?

Looking at the history of the property, there were 16 visits by Napa Police Department, various agencies. To me, that shows preponderance of evidence that this is not a safe environment for anybody, especially young children. They may witness something that will affect them the rest of their lives. Would that be... bona fide reason to reject the application because of the past history of visits by the police department?

Chairman, Commissioner Kehoe, unfortunately that's not a legal question for me to answer. That's a decision for this body. What you deem is that for you as the commissioner and commissioners collectively, enough, right? That is a judgment call for this body to make, not so much a legal question, So unfortunately, I can't weigh in on that.

Will we be leaving the city open for legal recourse?

That'd be a better discussion in executive session setting rather than in the open. If there was a path that this body or another were going down that was precarious legally, yeah, I'd be able to weigh in on that. But I think what you proposed here is really a judgment call based off the facts that were presented here to you.

So it boils down to a judgment call. Folks, what do we think?

I'll throw something out there and see if you guys feel the same way. I think we have two paths forward. It's either to deny this based on the concerns we've heard tonight or to put enough conditions on this to alleviate the concerns. And I'd like to know what you guys think between those two options. I...

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I'm in the back, and I can barely hear you. So if you guys can speak into your mics, that would be great.

Okay.

Do we have to start over, Rodney?

So I'll say it again. Do I need to say what I said again, Rodney? Please. Yeah. My opinion is we have two paths forward. We can deny based on the concerns we've heard tonight, or we can impose enough conditions to resolve those concerns. I'd like to know what the temperature is of the commission of those two options.

So in the past, I've said it before. Um, sometimes when we get, when we issue the CUP, it offers the city more control over said situations and not specifically this, but others that we've seen in the past. And it's hard for some people to understand, but there's, to a point the city can only be involved so much. But if the CUP is issued, then the neighbors have a little more power because something can actually be done when they call. It's not just a complaint to the police that will anything happen or not. I don't know.

It's... Will anything happen? What can they do? Just pull the conditional use permit? Yeah. Okay.

which in a situation like this and to most people who apply for a conditional use permit would be fairly impactful, I would think, in their life.

I just want to clarify that.

Yeah.

I agree with that process, and I made that same argument up here that it's better to have a conditional use permit that we can enforce than nothing. I don't know if that applies here just because they won't be able to move forward without it.

Right.

And it's not like there's something that's out of compliance now that we would be able to bring into compliance, which is a lot of the times the case. And I'm torn because daycare is such a needed service in our community that I try to think of any reason I can to support them. But this has been the hardest one I've had to support.

We still haven't, oh sorry. Go ahead. I don't think we've still even addressed some of the concern I have is it's at the end of a small cul-de-sac. How's that impact neighbors? How do they even get in and out of their driveway if you look at the map and you look at how it is? You have parents coming if they pull in a driveway and people park their car, run inside. stay inside, whatever. If somebody has to leave, they can't leave. And that impacts them operating and using their home freely unencumbered.

You know, for me, I think there's just not enough, um, a laying of my fears about safety to, Granted, I'm leaning towards a denial just based on the fact that the safety concerns I don't think have been addressed enough to put children in that situation. There's one way that we can protect them, and that's to not put them in that position.

Chairman, that's also my opinion. Exactly, I feel the same way. Let's not even have the kids subjected to that kind of conditions in the first place. If we let them have the condition from the idea that we'll deny it if something happens, it may be too late for some child. I just can't see you taking that chance.

I do have the concern with the kids being outside and the respondents answer that they snuck out. How do we know that, you know, if... they're already having issues like that to bring in other people's children. I had to use daycare, so I know how important it is.

Mr. Chair, to address Commissioner Morgan's two options, I don't know in this particular situation that we could put enough conditions on here to alleviate concerns. and that those would be met. And if those conditions weren't met, then certainly there's a process for neighbors or the public to come back to planning and zoning that says they're in violation of the conditions. But at that point, is it too late? If it was a non-living type of a situation where there were weeds growing up and that's a wholly different situation but I do not feel comfortable based on the responses, the questions that have been asked and the responses that I received, even with the no contact order, because those certainly could be violated and they happen all the time, or that individual could come back, cause problems, and at that point it's too late. And so I just flat out do not feel comfortable approving this conditional use permit for this particular application. And it, and it really is based on, um, the, the comprehensive plan that part. And I was looking at that before of, is it in the best interest, the general welfare protect this, you know, safety, public safety. Yeah, that's certainly within our purview. And I think this is, this is one application that is that ride right into that, that lane.

Okay.

Understood. So I'll go, if there's no other comments, Mr. Chair, I'll go ahead and move to deny the project based on that. It does not comply with the comprehensive plan and protecting the public due to the situation, the particular situation in this application.

Second.

It's been moved to deny by Kirkman, seconded by Kehoe. Let's do a roll call.

Bean.

Aye.

Copeland. Aye. Morgan.

Yes.

Kehoe.

Aye.

Kirkman.

Aye.

Miller.

Aye.

Garner.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Okay. Application has been denied.

Mr. Chair, do you have, do you, uh, just, A quick clarification. Do you read a statement that they have the, can they appeal this CUP to the city council? Is that an option for them that they need to know about? Yes, it is.

Yeah.

If you, if you would like to appeal our decision to city council, you're more than welcome to do so. And you can speak with staff on how to do that. Okay, we'll go ahead and move into item 3-2. Conditional use permit for a duplex and an RS-6 zoning district addressed as 2212.

Excuse me, just one second. I'm sorry. For the previous item, do you understand what was the decision and what, I think he's wondering what do we do now? Like, I'm sorry? She didn't understand what that meant. Maybe I guess we just clarify that a little bit.

Mr. Chairman, I'd recommend to have applicants speak with staff and they can explain the process in more detail on their own time.

So staff's going to come up and just take you out a little bit and explain it a little bit more.

Thank you, Commissioner. Okay, 3-2, Conditional Use Permit for Duplex and RS-6 at 2212 Ayers Drive for Brandon and Keyes and Nathan. Is the applicant here? Okay, go ahead and come on up.

Brandon Nappin, 2212 Ayers Drive. Thank you for hearing me today. Appreciate the opportunity. We're, as stated in here, looking for converting a non-compliant triplex that my wife and I purchased. We are living in there now, and to convert it into a compliant duplex based on previous uh applications i know going through with this property that the facts are the same but it's the first time for us as the new owners to come in and make a compliant duplex and it's just our family in there and so we waited of course for this this committee and so based on our conversations from the pre-approval process that we've had. We'd like to proceed with our request. Okay.

Thank you. We'll call you back up if we have questions. Ms. Frye.

Good evening, Mister chairman and commissioners my name is Candace fry associate planner for the city in that but the request before you this evening is a conditional use permit for duplex in the RS 6 zoning district or so concept is conversion of a non permitted and non compliant triplex into a compliant and permitted duplex. Property details and wanted to highlight some new information that was Not correct in the staff report, but I want to make note of that here. Current jurisdiction, the property is currently within Nampa City limits and is zoned RS6, single family residential. All surrounding zoning is zoned RS6, and the comp plan is medium density residential. So some property history. In March of 2024, conditional use permit was approved for a duplex on this property by the previous owner. They did have multiple extensions, but that conditional use permit expired in December of 2025. In February of 2026, A pre-application meeting was held with the city with the new owners to create a legal duplex. And then in March of 2026, a conditional use permit was applied for from the new owners of this property. And that brings us to today. The applicable regulations below is a section from 10.3.2, the land use chart, showing that a duplex needs a conditional use permit in the RS zone. This slide also includes some general information regarding conditional use permits. And then below is the criteria for a conditional use permit. Here are the setback requirements for the RS zone. Also included is the lot size requirement for the RS 6 zoning district at the bottom in orange. 1022-6B describes the number of parking spaces that are required based on the land use. So for something like this, two parking spots per dwelling unit on a single property, and at least one space shall be covered or enclosed in the RS zone. Staff analysis. Change of ownership. The new property owner purchased the property with full knowledge that a triplex is not an allowed use. A CUP is required for a duplex, and the structure is not currently co-compliant as a duplex. Property size. A duplex requires a minimum of 6,000 square feet. An area of land. This property is currently 0.25 acres or a little over 10,000 square feet. Setbacks, this property will be required to meet the appropriate setbacks for the RS zoning district. Compatibility, there is an existing duplex in the immediate vicinity of the project parking. It appears that there are two single car garages on the property facing Aries Drive that are currently existing on the property. A parking spot is in front of each garage. A second driveway faces Ram Court, and this meets the requirement for the two dwelling units. Correspondence, we did not receive any public comments. Nampa Engineering Department just left some general comments. Any future development of the site is subject to City of Nampa building permit, plan review process, applicable utility connection and engineering inspection fees, are to be paid upon approval of and prior to receiving any building permits. And then Nampa building department, building department provided a list of some of the improvements that will be required as part of the building permit process to convert the building to a duplex. And Sean from the building department is here if you have any questions regarding that. proposed findings. Below again is the conditional use permit criteria and some of the facts. More facts that I wanted to highlight and bring to your attention. This one regards lot size and then conversion of the existing home to a duplex must follow the building and fire standards and approved codes as a part of the building permit. And then this project does not change the existing economic impact to the area and is not detrimental to the general welfare. Weighing the facts and department and agency input, the project meets the criteria as outlined by 1025-4. The proposed use is supported by the comprehensive plan. It is in the medium density residential designation with appropriate zoning that allows a duplex with an approved conditional use permit. It must follow all city codes and standards at the time of building permit. The proposed use will be served adequately by essential public facilities and services. Services are already provided to the property and will continue to be served to the new unit. The proposed project will not be detrimental to any person's property or general welfare by reason of excessive traffic noise smoke fumes glare or odors because the use will remain residential and is consistent with the existing uses in the area. It will be required to complete the process for converting the home to a duplex and according in accordance with the standards in place for obtaining a building permit. Here are the conditions of approval as listed in your staff report. Here are the potential motions and I will stand for any questions.

I promise this will be quick. The existing duplex in the vicinity immediate vicinity is that like next door or where can you show us on the map where that might be. I'm just wondering how close his immediate vicinity.

Mr. Chairman and Commissioner, I don't have a great map, but it is right next door. There's a lot of color on that one. That's what I got. Thanks.

Okay. Okay. That would suffice for immediate vicinity. Yep.

Any other questions right now?

Okay.

Madam Clerk, do we have a sign-up sheet?

No sign-ups.

Is there anyone that would like to speak for, against, or undecided on this particular item? Okay. Seeing none. Is there anything you'd like to add?

No.

Okay.

Make a motion to be closed to public hearing. Second.

Been moved by Garner, seconded by Kehoe to close the public hearing. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. Public hearing's closed. Thoughts on this one? Seems pretty easy.

I'm just going to say it's a lot easier than the last one.

Yeah. He wants to bring it into compliance and he's here to ask for that permission to do it. Yep.

And there's one right next door.

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't see a big deal at all.

I don't either.

So. Hey, Candace, do you want to bring up the motions again?

Pretty pleased.

Mr. Chair, I move to approve the project as presented. Second.

It's been moved by Morgan, seconded by Kirkman, to approve this item as presented. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. This conditional use permit will become effective 15 calendar days from the date The written decision and reason statement is provided to the applicant unless an appeal has been filed with the Planning and Zoning Department with the appropriate fee. No action should be taken on this CUP until the appeal period has concluded. The applicant must confirm with the Planning and Zoning staff that there have been no appeals. Thank you.

Okay.

Next item three dash three annexation and zoning at zero midway road to our a zoning district and zero Iowa Avenue to RS seven zoning district and potential development agreement for Brecken land design. Greg Davis representing grace Bible church of Nampa, Idaho is the applicant here. Yep.

All right, good evening. Can you guys hear me? Okay. My name is Becky Izagiri. My address is 6661 North Glenwood, Garden City, Idaho, 83714. So good evening. On behalf of Grace Bible Church, let's see, I'm going to, oh, there we are. I'm here to present applications for annexation zoning for two parcels to help facilitate the development of a new church building. So tonight we are asking you to recommend approval for annexation and zoning of two parcels located at Lake Lowell and Midway. Parcel A is our pathway to annexation and Parcel B is where Grace Bible Church hopes to call home. This application requests annexation and zoning for two parcels. Parcel A, which is under separate ownership from Parcel B, is requesting R7 zoning and currently has no plans for development. Parcel B is requesting RA zoning to allow for the development of Grace Bible Church. The church plans to construct a 88,479 square foot two-story building to accommodate up to 1,300 seats. Per code, 347 parking stalls are required. However, the project will initially provide 690 stalls with two designated future parking areas accommodating an additional 210 for a total build out of 900 parking stalls. The church is also planning to provide 7.5 acres of usable open space and will accommodate two baseball fields and a soccer field. Here are the conceptual building elevations. The building has been designed with varied materials, articulated facades, and changes in building planes to reduce the visual massing. The floor plan emphasizes flexibility, community gathering, and efficient use of space to serve both church members and the surrounding community. The proposed zoning map amendment meets the review criteria by remaining consistent with a comprehensive plan, maintaining compatibility with surrounding residential uses, and providing a community serving church campus that preserves the area's suburban character through open space, landscaping, buffering, and recreational amenities. That's all I got for you guys. I'll stand for some questions.

Okay. Not right now. We'll call you back up. Thank you.

Thank you.

This friend.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. My name is Terry Friend, Associate Planner with the City of Nampa's Planning and Zoning Department. So our requested action item for the Commission tonight is a recommendation to City Council for an application for annexation and zoning at Zero Midway Road to RA, or Suburban Residential Zoning, and... Zero Iowa Avenue to RS7, single family residential zoning district, and a potential development agreement. The applicant is proposing annexation and zoning to allow for the development of a new Grace Bible Church facility on the 23.4 acre parcel that's at the northwest corner of Midway Road and Lake Lowell Avenue and a future residential subdivision on a five acre parcel on the southeast corner of the intersection. Both parcels are currently under Canyon County jurisdiction on the comprehensive plan future land use map. The large parcel is designated as very low density residential and the smaller property is designated medium density residential. Much of this area surrounding the parcels is in agricultural use. The property at the southwest corner of the intersection is a gravel pit, and the five-acre parcel is surrounded on the south and west by the Carriage Hill West subdivision. This slide shows the applicable regulations which must be met for us to accept an application for annexation. That is that the landowners have consented to annexation. The subject property is contiguous to city limits. The comprehensive plan includes the area to be annexed and contiguous roadways will be annexed and maintained per the existing MOU with the applicable highway district. So we have to have those conditions be met to even consider annexation. And then we go on to the next part of the application which is choosing zoning districts. And these are the conclusions that must be met before recommending approval. We need the requested zone to be in harmony with the comprehensive plan and the future land use map. The requested zone allows for the uses that are reasonably compatible with the existing uses on adjoining properties and that the request is in the interest of the public and reasonably necessary. Additional applicable regulations are the descriptive part of code about these two particular zoning districts, the suburban residential and the single-family residential, as well as the land use chart allowing a church or religious facility under that RA zoning district. In terms of correspondence, we've received comments from various departments and agencies. Our engineering department does not oppose the application. They've provided standard comments and a list of requested conditions of approval. Some of the comments include corrections to be made to some legal descriptions that have been provided, that the property is served by Midway Road, which is a collector with a 45 mile an hour speed limit, and Lake Lowell Avenue, which west of Midway is also classified, sorry, It's classified as a local road west of Midway and east of Midway. Lowell is considered a collector and has a speed limit of 45. There will be right-of-way dedication required adjacent to both Midway and Lake Lowell. The applicant will be required to complete frontage improvements at the time of development. The proposed development will likely meet the threshold to require a traffic impact study. There is domestic water, sewer, and pressurized irrigation service nearby. Any onsite well and septic systems will need to be abandoned and will request their conditions of approval on later slides. The Boise Project Control Board has indicated that there are not Boise Project or Boise CUNA irrigation facilities on the subject property, but the property does have valid water rights. They've also pointed out that state law requires that drainage or irrigation ditches that cross this property must remain unobstructed and protected and that it's the owner and developer's responsibility to contact those neighboring properties regarding protection of those facilities. Code compliance did not find any violations at the time of evaluation. Nampa Fire District also does not oppose the application. They indicate that their nearest fire station is Fire Station 6. It's about two miles away, and they would anticipate a response time of five minutes. Highway District number four is the one that serves this property, and they had quite a bit to say about it. Let's see. They are responsible for Midway Road from Iowa Avenue to Orchard Avenue and Lake Lowell west of Midway. Anything else is responsibility of the city. They do advise that Midway Road from north side of Iowa Avenue to the south side of Lone Star was rebuilt in the summer of 2024 and it is in excellent condition. So they do not allow any cuts in the roadway within five years of a rebuild like that. So any utility extensions that would affect Midway Road must be board. They also detail the maintenance responsibilities, perhaps transferring to Nampa under certain conditions. They also comment that they would recommend that we collect impact fees to serve new growth in the vicinity because there is no money in their budget. And that they do request that the access for Grace Bible Church come from Lake Lowell Avenue and that they will be part of the review process for any access or utility permits that would be needed. We did receive two written public comments. Mr. Strandberg indicated a general support for the construction of Grace Bible Church, but he did inquire about any improvements planned for the Midway intersection, potentially a roundabout was his question. I did have an opportunity to correspond with him just briefly in an attempt to answer that in my not traffic-oriented way. There is not a roundabout planned at this intersection at this point, and really the improvements planned for that intersection in the next five years were minimal. And then an email from Ms. Mix concerned about water and sewer capacity, particularly the aquifer and how it will impact established residents. Also concerned about impact fees charged with development and the overall quality of life. All right. So again, back to just accepting an application for annexation. We've met these criteria. And then the actual decision about annexation is a legislative decision. But the property parcels proposed for annexation do meet the criteria outlined in state code because the property owners have given consent to annex. We see that in the affidavits of legal interests that are provided. The project area is contiguous with city limits on the south and the east where the smaller parcel abuts the RS7 zone parcels in the Carriage Hill West subdivision. So that's their connection to be contiguous. The proposed parcels are located in the NAMPA's area of impact that's detailed in our comprehensive plan, and the proposed zoning matches the very low density and medium density residential designations respectively, and they comply with the MOU for the highway. All right, and then we come to facts regarding zoning to, sorry, zoning to RA. These are detailed in your staff report and they're listed here, but in conclusion, the proposed zoning for the property at the northwest corner of Midway is in harmony with the comprehensive plan and the future land use map, as well as the Southwest Nampa specific area plan and its land use map. Because the proposed zoning district is a permitted zone under the designation of VLDR, the very low density residential, and it establishes an area of RA that will be compatible with future and existing zoning in the surrounding area. A church is a use that complies with the allowed uses in the RA zoning district according to the schedule of land use and will be reasonably compatible with adjoining properties. It is in the public interest and reasonably necessary because development of these parcels will extend city services and utilities and any new construction will bring improvements to the property per city code. And for our zoning 2RS7, these are the criteria and relevant facts there. And the conclusion, the proposed RS7 zoning for the property at the southwest corner of Midway and Lake Lowell is in harmony with the city's comprehensive plan and future land use map, because it will be compatible with the future and existing zoning in the area, because the RS7 is the permitted zone within the medium density residential land use designation. The residential subdivision right next door is also RS7, so it should be reasonably compatible with those adjoining properties. And it's in the interest of the city and reasonably necessary, again, because development of these parcels will extend city services and utility and construction will be improvements on the property. 11 conditions of approval that I will not read to you have been recommended based on the department and agency correspondence. Those are listed in your staff report and on the next three slides. Just to toss those out there for somebody who might want to pause the video. And there are your potential motions.

No, but I would point out, Terri, on several of our slides, it's showing 0 Iowa Avenue. Should those all be Lake Lowell?

No.

Or it is Iowa?

It is. And I think that's because the original development starts at 0 Iowa and Carriage Hill carries most of that. But I double checked. It really is the address of the parcel according to county records.

Cool.

A little bit deceptive.

but not intentionally.

Not intentionally, not on my part anyways. It was the way it was.

Mr. Chair, I don't know if you'll be able to answer this question if I might, but when we look at projects that are approved for RS7 zones and church is one of those or religious worship, did we ever think about considering the size of a church in a zone like this? I mean, this is a... And I admire the faith of those that attend Grace Bible Church just by the sheer numbers that it looks like this church will accommodate. But honestly, sometimes that will come into play. And I don't know if that was... Was that ever considered when we were looking at changing this code or even the... Please. Yeah, I saw Daniel jump up real quick, so I wasn't sure if he had a...

Yes, thank you, Commissioner. Daniel would like to answer that question.

So a number of years ago, back when Robert and Norm were here, there was a Supreme Court case that dealt with churches and zoning. Was that with LUPA? Yeah. Well, it was at the federal level, if I remember correctly. And we had to change the code to allow churches in all zones.

So the size doesn't matter. Size does not matter. Is that recorded? I hope that wasn't recorded.

And just for additional clarification.

Please look at the context of that comment is what I'm saying.

Just for additional clarification, the church is on the upper left parcel there, and they are requesting the RA zoning. In the RA zoning, we're talking at least an acre. So it's a little bit sixes for this particular application. Okay.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Do we have a sign-up sheet?

We do. We have one. Amy Bowman.

Good evening, Chair and Commissioners. My name is Amy Bowman, and I reside at 1623 West Orchard Avenue in Nampa. First, let me thank each of you for your service to our community, a sentiment you may not often hear from the podium. But I did want to express my gratitude for the time that you give for the betterment of our community. I am speaking in favor of the annexation before you tonight, which meets our own annexation and zoning amendment requirements and aligns with our comprehensive plan and Nampa's impact area. As you may or may not know, the history of Nampa is deeply rooted in faith. When Nampa was founded 140 years ago on September 8, 1886, many of its founding fathers were deeply religious, and Nampa soon got the nickname New Jerusalem. Fast forward to today, the city of Nampa's vision statement is that Nampa is a caring community where people live, work, play, worship and raise their families. I don't know many cities that actually still include worship in their statements. The annexation before you tonight is an opportunity to support those of us in the community who value worship and seek to worship in our hometown of Nampa. And I am a fifth generation Idahoan, born and raised, love Nampa. I grew up in Parma, but Nampa is my home. So the sign behind you in God we trust is a reflection of our community's values and our national protection for the freedom of religion. Grace Bible Church is not only a place to gather on Sunday, it is a wellspring of life and a blessing to our community. This is not just a place of worship in our city, but it is a place for our city. They have donated thousands of dollars, and maybe even more, to a variety of nonprofits in our community, and hundreds, if not at least a thousand, of Nampa residents attend Grace Bible Church. In short, I hope the decision before you tonight will be an easy one. It's not a subdivision, so that's good. I believe it meets all the legal requirements for approval, and you will hear much more from others tonight in support of the annexation. Thank you for voting to approve this annexation and zoning amendment request tonight.

Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak for, against, or undecided on this particular item?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the commission. My name is Tony McCreary. I'm from 1501 Lone Star Road in Nampa. As executive pastor, I am speaking on behalf of Grace Bible Church. Thank you for the opportunity to share briefly why annexation of this property into the city of Nampa is important for us. Grace Bible Church is fully dedicated to serving the people of Nampa. In fact, Our outreach motto is For Our City, and that phrase truly reflects the hearts of our people. For many years, our congregation has invested time, resources, and volunteers into supporting individuals, families, and community efforts throughout Nampa. We see ourselves not simply as a local neighborhood presence, but as an organization committed to the well-being of our city as a whole. Our request for annexation reflects that commitment. We strongly desire for our future church home to be located within Nampa City proper so that our involvement is clearly recognized as being for this city. Partnering with Nampa, investing in Nampa, and serving Nampa for the long term. Being within city limits allows us to more fully participate as active and accountable community partners alongside the city local organizations and surrounding neighborhoods. We believe this property is well suited for that purpose. We are committed to development, developing it responsibly in a manner that respects the surrounding neighborhoods and aligns with the city's long range vision. Our goal is to not simply build a facility, but to establish a lasting presence that will serve the city of Nampa for many years to come. Thank you for your time, your service to our community, and your thoughtful consideration of this annex request. Thank you.

Good evening, Chairman and Commissioners. Thank you for listening to me. I am Jim Waterhouse. I reside at 11518 West Vincenzo Drive in Nampa. I am a member of the homeowners of Carriage Hill West. We're not opposed to the city providing this annexation. We are opposed to making sure we are, we are strongly recommending that the city provide the adequate services and traffic relief prior to doing so. Uh, I'm a good old Nazarene boy from Weezer and we look at churches and we say, okay, we could tell attendance by counting cars. On a good Sunday, two people per cars. Count the cars, that's how many people are there. Sometimes three is an excellent Sunday. But I'd like to, in their own plan, they plan for 900 cars at full build out. The intersection at Midway and Lake Lowell has accidents all the time. It's not probably noted in the city because it's not city property right now. That's the line. Carriage Hill West homeowners association has been asking for a traffic impact study in our neighborhood and on Lake Lowell for over a year. It's been promised your city streets works department has not done that. They've said they would, they've never provided it. It's not been posted as you're probably aware. We want you to look at the, the, the community as a whole, not just one thing. You, uh, The planning and zoning has approved a, I think it's 44-unit condo down on Middleton and Lake Lowell. That's an impact. I don't know if it's been approved, but it's been submitted. You're working on a plan for 110 homes at Midway and Iowa, just a couple blocks from there. The impact is going to be tremendous. And we have, if not weekly, every couple of weeks there's accidents at that corner. It's a four-way stop. Even the highway district said, we're not going to do anything for five years. It is a good road. Midway is a good road if you can get through the stop and goes. We set multiple times. Everyone's probably aware here on this commission that Middleton and Lake Lowell, we've approved many businesses. It's a good area. We like the area. but it is not adequately maintained. I was speaking just recently with one of my classmates at my 50th reunion from Northwest Nazarene, Tom Dale, you might know him. He says what happens is you can't make them change anything that's not connected to their property.

People build these things so they leave a corner off here or there so they don't have to do traffic improvements.

We would like to request, we're not opposing, The HOA is not, Care HO West is not opposing the annexation. What we're asking to do is have some conditions.

Mr. Chair, time.

Please do a traffic survey. Please make sure the services are in place. We can't get the response time now. Irrigation is too low. We're losing our lawn because we can't get the pressure up out there. And I would thank you. I appreciate your time, and thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else?

My name is Steve Novak. I live in Carriage Hill West, 12589 South Miramonte. So I heard you say there was no roundabout planned. So my comment has to do with, similar to Jim's, is that we can see the church annexed into the city of Nampa, however with conditions. And my biggest concern is from my 40 plus years in civil engineering design is is traffic and 900 parking stalls just red flag to me. And all we have is stop signs everywhere. So how's that gonna work? I know the services are staggered a little bit, however, it's still 900 vehicles and no roundabout plan. You plan for worst case design, what's gonna happen in five, 10 years? How are we gonna handle that traffic? And with more subdivisions coming, I think that I'm in favor of a church, but looking at the Nampa 2050 visioning statement, I've taken care of all those questionnaires and polls. Number one thing was people wanted quality of life, slower pace, small town feel, and most loved assets was rural charm, farmland. To me, this development is excessive. I think if it was half the size or a third of the size, probably wouldn't have a problem. You know, you're speaking of zoning residential, residential single family, right? Are you zoning? So that's one acre per, or one unit or one parcel per acre, correct? Or two and a half parcels if it's a cluster development subdivision, correct? Correct me if I'm wrong. Is that the right zoning? So if you do the math, and even if you take the worst case scenario, two and a half subdivisions, two cars each, you know, you've got 50, 60 cars, as opposed to worst case scenario, 900. I mean, you can see the concern here. What else is there? Oh, so if there was a roundabout installed and a reduced parking stall amount, that would help. And maybe even right turn pockets in so that you can get the cars off of Lake Lowell Avenue quickly and into the parking lot. That would help if you decide to accept the 900 stalls.

What else?

Oh, I did notice on the preliminary site plan, they show in the two driveways, they showed two egress lanes and one ingress lane. Probably should be the other way around. You probably want to get the cars off of Lake Lowell Avenue as quickly as possible so it doesn't impact those of us who are driving it and aren't going to that public, you know, to that parking lot. So just some suggestions and observations.

Mr. Chair, time.

Thank you. Okay, that's it. Thank you.

Hi, good evening. David Gersten, 11929 West Calais Drive. Thank you, Chair and Commissioners. I too am a resident of Carriage Hill West. I am also a board member of the HOA. One of our additional concerns is more so, again, we are in favor of the church with certain conditions, as spoken earlier, but the RS-7 property is currently not being shared what the development is going to be. We understand what RS-7 is. That is, our neighborhood is as well. But we do have a lot of problems with neighboring neighborhoods. parcels spyglass Ridge tends to come into our facility uses our pool uses our parks lets their dogs trample on our public areas. We are in touch with the applicant though, so we wanna make sure that we are just putting it out on record that we are concerned about neighboring properties and sharing resources. I know there's limited control that the commission can do with that, but if there is any way to control right of access between neighboring properties and things like that is something we'd like to consider. Thank you.

My name is Keith Wagner, address 16702 Artis Avenue, Caldwell, Idaho. And first of all, Chairman, Commissioners, thanks for the opportunity to be heard tonight. I am very biased, obviously. I'm the lead pastor at Grace Bible Church, and I am used to having a timer right in front of me so that I can get in and out. But I appreciate the opportunity to be considered. Obviously, I'm hoping this... annexation is allowed. And I also appreciate each person from Carriage Hill West that has spoken. Thank you for sharing that. One of our things has always been we want to be good neighbors. we understand that sometimes, you know, even as a growing church, you know, Sunday is our big, that's our big day. But what we've tried to do, even as we have planned this, is to be as, you know, as considerate as we can of the community. Living here since 2004, moving, I grew up in a small farming town in Indiana, lived in Cincinnati, came here, loved Idaho. I loved I loved what made Nampa, Nampa. And we want to be part of contributing to keeping Nampa a great place it's been, whether that's through our sports ministries, whether that's through the use of our facilities by the community, we want to be good neighbors. And I know that here tonight, I know that we have several here from Grace Bible Church. I don't know if everybody's planning to testify. I'm kind of all about efficiency, so maybe not. But I know that several of you are here. We're excited about what can happen here. We're excited about what this is going to allow us to do for the city of Nampa. And so I just want to say thank you for considering approving this annexation. And we're looking forward to what takes place over the next several years as we continue to show you, hopefully prove what it looks like to be Forest City. Thanks so much.

Mr. Chairman, I have a question. Sir?

Quick question for you. Yes, sure.

Where is your church currently located? It's at 1415 Lone Star. Lone Star and where? Here in New England. It's between Midland and Middleton.

Yeah.

So if you know where Lone Star Middle School is, we're just past Middleton, going that direction.

I don't go down that way for any reason, but I wanted to find out what it was. How often do you meet?

For our services? Right now we have a Saturday evening service, and part of the reason we need to move is we currently have five Sunday services.

Okay, so you have five on Sunday, one on Saturday. Do you have any other days?

I mean, you know, youth will meet there on Wednesdays, but actually the plan would be currently to keep our facility. The youth will probably still meet there on Wednesdays. So primarily it's going to, you know, our main use outside of staff, of course, throughout the week offices would be Saturday and Sunday.

So your parishioners, they don't all come to the same service. You have some coming. That's correct. So it's not going to be 600 people at any one particular service.

Well, you mean right now? Or are you talking about when we move into the facility? The new facility. When we move into the new facility, yeah, we'll probably, I know we'll have over 600 people for a service. Six times during the week. Oh, no, no, not six times. I'm sorry. That's just what we're currently doing. This is going to be nearly two and a half to two and three quarters the size of our current facility. Thank you. Yeah. Anything else? Okay.

Anybody else? A few, go ahead, come on.

Hi, my name is Mary Kaywood. Kind of saw my name up there once in a while. I'm the one, I'm the trustee of the five acre lot or 4.99 acres, a joint across the way. And I just wanted you to know that I've lived in that area all my life.

Could you give us your address?

Currently 3524 Taton Drive. I got married and moved across town. But Carriage Hill West was my dad's farm and the five acres is what we pulled out of it. We were hoping to do We just, you know, to tell you the truth, we don't know what we're doing on that property yet, although it's designed to do houses. And at this point, we just wanted to go ahead and get it into the city, hopefully be able to draw more attention to it. But just letting you know, that was me. I've been there all my life. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Sheila Reynolds, and I reside at 914 North Midland Boulevard here in Nampa. We moved back to Nampa when we started attending the church in 2009. We were in Emmett at that time, but we would drive over every Sunday and every Wednesday and come to church. It was so impactful for us to have a church that we fell in love with. And we moved here in 2011, and the church was probably 125, 150 people maybe. And it used to be a school, so it had a small sanctuary of 200, maybe 250 at the most, and then a gymnasium on the other side. And so that's the way the church was built originally. But as we got here and we got a new pastor, it began to grow and God brought people more and more. And then we, I used to play the piano, so we had to do two services. And so, okay, I was okay with that. But then when it outgrew that, we did three services. We got a new music person and his wife played, so I did not have to do three. But it went to four, but we've done everything to accommodate as many people. They redid the upstairs and made it a balcony of sorts so that it seats an extra 100 people. We've added as many chairs as the fire department will allow. And still, it's just overflowing. And we bought three shuttle buses because people can park down at the school, middle school, and they are shuttled down there so we don't have to have that many more cars. We've done everything we can in that area to facilitate. But the growth keeps coming. We don't go out and ask people to come. God sends people to us. I don't know how to explain it any other way. I've never been in a church that's grown it that way. And the Lord's at work in our church. And he's blessing our city because of that church. So I'm hoping that you will annex that and we can move on with our plans. So I know there's a problem always with traffic at every corner in every area of Napa. I sit in those lines as well. I don't live in Carriage Hill, but coming out of our park, ours is 55 plus, and coming out of there, the traffic is lined up. We can get out of our thing into the turn lane and wait until the light turns so we can finally get out. I understand the traffic everywhere. So I just, I know that's a consideration, but it's not going to change until Napa can fix them all. I don't know any other answer. But anyway, one, appreciate your votes tonight. Thank you.

Next.

No, I'm just saying next. My name is Andre her tack one one six seven five Westman Santos. I'm also in carriage Hill West and uh, I'm neither or against the annex of this development. Um, but I would like to ask for city of Nampa to temporarily hold any and all residential track developments and construction anywhere from six months to year as Middleton did in 2022. You know, they took this measure, because the concern over the lack of adequate road construction and necessary infrastructure. I mean, you guys keep approving all these giant tracks and the roads and the traffic is just trash here. You know what I mean? You guys just keep approving and approving without doing infrastructure first. I mean, it's kind of a joke, honestly. I'm not sure what you're gonna have the developer do to improve the roads. But something got mentioned that there's no plan for five years for roundabouts. I mean, but you keep approving. It's kind of a weird thing. I mean, even City of Eagle has done this. They put a hold on high-density housing and are doing downsizing in efforts to restrict future residential developments, mostly single-family homes, and possibly increase House values property values instead of cramming tight homes into tight area. I mean that brings crime. And possibly crime unwanted traffic congestion. So I would just strongly advise or ask ask you guys to hold off and really consider what you can be proving. Thanks.

Good evening. Casey McGrew. I live at 13139 South Midway Road. Born and raised in Nampa. And the property that the church is planning on going on was in my family. My grandma and her siblings own that property. My great grandpa helped homestead all that out there. So it's really cool to see what it is out there. Having it be a church is far better than it being houses. So that would be my recommendation. Highway District 4 did build that amazing road. Midway is awesome now. My wife and I walk it every night. The lights, there was flashing lights on Midway, and they were super annoying. Highway District 4 did do a study. There was not enough crashes that had happened at Lake Lowell and Midway to warrant those lights, and so they thankfully took them down about three months ago. So I don't have yellow flashing lights in my house anymore at night, which is amazing, unless there's an inversion, and then they stopped working because they were solar. So that was awesome. To some of the other comments that have been made, houses, I would highly recommend the denial of those. I do not know what's planning on being done further down midway or on Lake Lowell west of the church. But as far as the church going in, The amount of traffic that happens on a daily basis on Midway Road has gotten far, far worse. And thankfully, Midway dead ends right there as you're getting closer to the golf course. But it just can't handle a ton. Thankfully, church is only busy on Sundays. So I'd much rather see it that way. Plus, on Easter Sunday, I don't have to find a parking spot anymore.

Just don't put a fence in.

But that's what I've got. I think for the land use, it's a great opportunity for it. Thank you.

Anybody else? Okay. Last call. if you'd like to come back up. Thank you, Ms. Ubezer. Okay.

So I'm gonna rope Daniel into the conversation and kind of ask him to chat about the future roads, roundabouts, all the things out there.

Either way. I guess if it helps her case.

Uh, Mr. Chair, Daniel Badger, city engineer, the church, uh, we've had discussions with them. They will be required to do a traffic impact study there of a size that that will be required. That will look at the intersections, um, adjacent there and out, um, per the city's policies. It will look at turn lanes that are necessary and all of those types of things to identify, uh, just like carriage hills west and the other subdivisions as they've gone in. They do traffic studies and it identifies the impacts that they have and the mitigations that they're required to do. The church will do the same process and if, uh, improvements are triggered, they will be required to complete that as part of their construction. Looking at the, I did look at the, while we were waiting, the accident history in the area, the intersection of Midway and Lake Lowell has three accidents in the last five years. Looking at the other accidents around there, there's nothing there that jumps out to me as a high accident history issue. That is the state data, so that is all law enforcement data tools, their data in there. So that is a accurate representation of all accidents that have happened that have been reported. If they're unreported accidents, obviously we don't have those numbers, but those are pretty, those are not common of any kind of severity.

Thank you, Daniel. So in response to the RS7, we're not proposing development at this time. So that's not on the table right now. I just want to point out also that this is not a subdivision. It's a church. So the operating hours are a little bit different. The traffic movements are going to be a little bit different. As a lot of folks have said, you know, the church will generate peak activity on Sunday mornings primarily. And then, you know, throughout the day, you know, folks will come and go. But it's generally on Sunday on, you know, non-peak hour times, you know. And so there won't be a conflict between the commuter traffic and the church traffic. Let's see what else. And then just generally churches are an awesome place for the community. I live next to a church and I'm not a church member, but I do, I go, we have the neighborhood, my neighborhood association has, our neighborhood, kind of our party at the church, you know, and even if you're not a member, you can go and, you know, it's a really cool community gathering spot. There's a bunch of baseball fields at this place and, you know, we go there and, you know, a lot of us will just kind of congregate and talk, and that's a place for the neighbors to kind of just talk about what's going on. So churches are a great asset to the community, and I ask that you recommend approval. Thanks.

Questions? No? Okay. Make a motion that we close the public hearing. Second.

Been moved by Garner, seconded by Kirkman to close the public hearing. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, public hearing is closed.

I'll say that I'm in favor of this. I wish they would consider doing more neighborhood business on these little quarters.

All right.

Um, try again. Um, I'm generally in favor of this. It meets the comp plan. Um, it's some green space out there. It's gathering spot as the applicant stated, which I like. Um, I do wish that the RS seven was, I wish we would do more neighborhood business pockets at these intersections. Um, just to alleviate traffic into other parts of town. But I don't have any reason to vote against it for that reason. Just maybe a general encouragement to staff to start encouraging more of that kind of stuff. But I'm in favor of it.

And I am in agreeance. I think sometimes it's a harder sell than an RS-7 for staff just because simply a lot of people don't understand what that could potentially bring to them, what benefit it is. I think we kind of understand, but we've talked about it a lot more than most people talk about it. So we understand some of the benefits, but I'm in agreeance. I like it. I like the fact that there's a lot of green space and I like the fact that the church is willing to share that green space. And it's good to see businesses, churches, anything like that grow in Nampa and want to be a part of our community. I think it's a very positive thing and I like that.

When I walked into the room tonight, I saw these people sitting here and I said, wow, they're all opposed to the drone. Now that they're not opposed to that and they're in favor of the church, we have a little bit more in common, I think. I agree totally that Sunday is when you go to church. That's why I was asking the question about when they go, when their visitors come, parishioners, whatever they call them. And, you know, I'm not out running around. I'm at church or someplace else. I'm not running around, so you're not going to affect me, and I don't think you can affect many other people. So to me, traffic is not an issue, even though it's a lot of people. It's at a very lax time or very... quiet time, whatever you want to call it. So I don't, I don't see that a problem at all, at all.

I agree as well. And I think the thing that makes me the most happy is that this church is growing enough that they need a new facility and that bodes well for our community. So I'm happy about that.

Mr. Chair, can I ask a question? I might, I might've missed this in the report and it's not pulling up for me on the website, but the specific area, the one parcel, the church parcel is in the specific area plan, correct? Can you remind me what the use in that plan is for this area? Is it very low density? It is, I just missed it in the report. It is, it's very low density. Okay, don't even stand up then. They already answered. I'm sorry.

We were paying attention.

Yeah, fair enough. Thanks, Terry.

Mr. Chair, I'm in favor of this project. I don't think there's one church in Nampa that is a negative to our community, no matter what church that is. I've always been impressed with how the number of churches and congregations in the city of Nampa for the size that it is. I grew up and was raised in Meridian and Boise. And when I moved over here, I was just amazed at how many churches there were. And this is just going to be nothing but positive. I like the location out there. The traffic, yes, it's always a concern. But in this particular situation, it's going to be offsetting to what the commuter and the peak hour traffic is going to be. And so that's a positive. And I'm impressed with the growth of Grace Bible Church. I've watched it kind of when you started out there on Lake Lowell and kind of seen the growth and everything with that. And so I'm just. It's pretty, it's pretty dang amazing that you're looking at a 1400 seat church. So, and I know you guys had nothing to do with it, right? It's all, you're not the one driving the bus, right? Yeah. Okay. So I get it. So I'm in 100% favor of this. It's going to be a good positive addition.

Well, Mr. Chair, if there's no other comments. I'll move to recommend approval for the project as stated on the screen with the recommended conditions of approval and the proposed findings. Second.

It's been moved by Garner. Yeah, do we need roll call on this? Yes.

Yeah, this is going to need a roll call, distinct votes.

Okay. It's been moved by Garner, seconded by Kehoe. Can we have a roll call, please?

Morgan? Yes. Bean?

Aye.

Copeland? Aye. Garner? Aye. Kehoe? Aye. Miller?

Aye.

Kirkman?

Wholeheartedly, yes.

Motion carries.

Thank you. We are going to take a five-minute break, and we'll be back for the last item.

That alarm is going to go off.

Okay, we're gonna come back into order here in about two minutes, please. Well, they're so happy.

That is hilarious. Channel 6 backed up and left. They're like, I didn't sign up for this. I want you to put a bit on there about the controversial daycare thing instead.

So that's the only news I'm watching is Channel 6. Because I like their neighborhood reporters because they typically give good news about Google and Meridian and Wimpa and Notice and It's usually better stuff. Yeah.

Oh, the world sucks. This guy is falling.

We're all going to get captured and die.

Yeah. I used to be Channel 7. Yeah. Every morning. Every morning I'd wake up, watch Channel 7 news. Every morning. And I just got to the point where I can't. You can't do it anymore. I can't do it. I just can't do it. Okay.

It's so late cleaning now. It's hard. It's hard.

Okay. Give them just another few seconds to quiet down in the hallway. Okay. We'll go ahead and move into, uh, action item three dash four, uh, conditional use permit for an unlisted land use at GB one zoning district addressed as 52 95 East Franklin road for Sam Bailey representing CF at Portland Nampa. Um, and because of the, nature of this item and some of the complicated things involved, we have allowed the presenter up to 20 minutes to present his item. So thank you and go ahead. No.

In my comments, but really want to paint the full context of this land use discussion while there is also a federal airspace component that we are conducting in conjunction with the Nampa municipal airport. This background, my name is Sam Bailey. I'm the senior manager for economic development policy to Amazon. My address is 1515 Wine Coupe, Denver, Colorado. Here on behalf of our fulfillment center, known as BOI2 or B-O-I-2, located at 5295 East Franklin Street, we are requesting your approval to a conditional use permit to conduct primary drone delivery from the site. Again, this is the land use portion of the conversation. In parallel, we also go through a federal regulatory approval process with the FAA, as well as local aviation operators, including airports, general aviation, commercial, helipads, hospitals with flight-for-life operations, and others. But tonight, here to speak specifically regarding the land use item before you. A little bit about Primair. We've been in service since 2022, delivering packages, utilizing an FAA regulated drone known as the Mark 30. And we are currently active in several markets in Arizona, Florida, Kansas, Michigan, Texas. And then we have a test site in Pendleton, Oregon. We have other sites currently under construction in Illinois, Louisiana, Nebraska, Texas, and Missouri, where we will be launching out of comparable facilities to what we have here in Nampa, which is an Amazon Roblox fulfillment center. We store about 25 million items in that site that are ready for delivery, and about 60% of those items are eligible for drone delivery. Prime Air is a Part 135 air carrier certificate holder, meaning we can conduct commercial operations with our drone beyond a visual line of sight. Our operations for the Mark 30, which is our latest drone, were approved at the end of 2024, and it was immediately put into service. This same drone is operating at all of our active sites across the United States and in the United Kingdom, where we have one site. It's a fully autonomous operation, so we'll fly from our fulfillment center to the customer on a predefined flight path that might either be their backyard, front yard, or driveway, and I'll show you what that looks like. The flight monitors are based locally at every site, so we do have monitors who are based and housed at every site where we have drone operations. They can monitor flight, take phone calls or inquiries from law enforcement if there's an activity in the community. They can also command it to either conduct a safe contingent landing, put itself on the ground, or to conduct a U-turn to come back to the fulfillment center for any reason. They monitor flight and weather radar as well as telemetry data, but they don't have visual like video type awareness. They're not looking at a video. We don't live stream any of that. We take customer privacy very seriously. The drone possesses detection avoid technology, so it can detect things like helicopters, airplanes, as well as hot air balloons. We operate in wind and light rain up to about 30 knots, and there's a perception system when it conducts the delivery to scan that delivery point to make sure there aren't animals, humans, I have three little boys, so thinking about them right in the backyard, or any obstacles. If it detects an obstacle, it will cancel the delivery and it will immediately ascend, return to the fulfillment center and notify the customer. We don't land in someone's backyard. We drop to about a 13 foot hover, drop the package, and then ascend and return to the center. The drone can carry a five pound parcel up to seven and a half miles from the fulfillment center. That perfect radius will look a little different as we work through the federal airspace regulatory process that I'll speak to. And we take into account things such as Nampa Municipal Airport. I know Lindsay Johnson's here. Our team is coordinating with her team to look at our airspace operations as well as input from the Federal Aviation Administration as well. The drone itself is just about just over five feet by 4'11", weighs 83 pounds. And the drone operates only during civil twilight hours. So that's about 30 minutes before sunrise, 30 minutes after sunset. So we're looking at daytime that's variable throughout the year based on the seasons. We are proposing that we would have between 12 and 15 of these Mark 30s based at the fulfillment center. A couple things that we go through in conjunction with the land use project that we have before you is we have to work with the Federal Aviation Administration, as we've done in all of our other active sites where we're delivering today, to do two things. One, to secure a certificate of authorization to access the federally regulated airspace to identify where we can, we can't deliver so not all customers in that seven half mile race will be eligible it'll look a little bit like a trek aboard south of us we have the airport so we won't be able to conflict with them and we have standoff requirements from that airport our regulatory folks are meeting i think on this thursday with the airport team to walk through that detailed process second we're required to conduct environmental impact study as required by the national environmental policy act to determine that our drones do not create a negative impact on the environment where we are operating Just to show you what the customer experience looks like. So the drone, the site, we would fulfill that customer order as we do today. We would take it out to what's called a paddock or a prime air drone delivery center that would be located in the parking lot. We would load that drone with a, lithium ion battery, and then the customer order. It will then take off, fly direct to the customer along a determined flight path, descend to about 12, 13 feet, drop the package, ascend, return to the fulfillment center. We operate between 200 and 400 feet in that eligible airspace, and that does a great job of deconflicting us from other operators. If at any point in time, for example, the Nampa PD or fire department, the county were to be responding to an incident or some first responder event, they can also contact us directly to either install a no fly zone or cease operation. So we have a deconfliction coordination process we conduct with law enforcement as well. Customers have to opt into the service. So they have to select it at checkout. So we will not surprise them with a drone. They have to say they want to utilize the service. There is an added fee for it, as you can see here. But that alerts the customer that they are selecting it. So they will go through several prompts to select drone delivery. If they don't want to receive it, they'll receive packages in the way that they currently do via one of our delivery vehicles. We build a world model that identifies all the places that are eligible for delivery within airspace. That includes things like tree canopies, power lines, other adjacent uses, if you're next to a hospital, flight for life operations, things of that nature. We try to identify up to three delivery points on the property. That might be the backyard, the front yard, the driveway. It'll vary by property. The backyard is one of the most popular because it's within your property. You usually have a fence. You can deter porch piracy. But we will predetermine those points, and then the customer has the ability to pick them. That way, a customer's not picking their pool or trampoline to drop it on, but we're identifying those safe points. And if they need to change those points based on remodeling their backyard or the driveway, they can then contact us. We conducted a third-party sound study of our site in Arizona that is a fulfillment center and looked at the decibel readings. If I was standing at that primary drone delivery center, that's the launch pad in the parking lot. If I was 500 feet away, and then we took measurements beyond that. And then we rented an Airbnb where we simulated a test if I was delivering an order and standing in the backyard where that order was occurring, topping out at about 68 decibels. If I'm in front of the house, deliveries occurring to the back, about 61 decibels. And this, again, is only during those civil twilight hours, so daytime hours, not evening, not two in the morning. What we are proposed to do is make a modification to the parking lot. This will eliminate about 114 parking spots, but we are well parked at that location. This would be a fenced in location adjacent to the site where we would have our launch pads to launch the drones from. as well as our battery vault that's an energy system storage and charging system for lithium ion batteries, and then where we could store the drones. Our flight operations would also occur on site as well. So we're making a minor change to the parking lot while the main fulfillment center use stays the same. Here's our site on Franklin. Again, large Amazon Roblox fulfillment center. It's a common piece of real estate that we invest this new technology in based on the inventory and the existing expertise that we have at the site. We will then add 30 net new jobs to start at the site that will support primary operations. Those often come with their part 107 FA certification, which allows for commercial drone operations. So a great resume building transferable job skill, whether you're at Amazon, in law enforcement, utilities, real estate, aerial photography, and more. Here's a zoom out of that site plan. So again, we're looking to consume parking within the Western side of the building, about 114 parking spots in total. And just zooming in there again, we're leveraging the proximity to the building to be able to conduct and fulfill those orders and then bring them out to the paddock where then they would be loaded with a, again, a customer order, a lithium ion battery, and then can depart. We really want to be proactive about our community engagement, so I was just out here recently at College of Western Idaho. We promoted a community engagement event where myself and other colleagues were there to provide presentations on primary, what it is, what it isn't, to make sure people understand the service, how they can utilize it, answer questions regarding sound, safety, privacy, and more. We had Nampa residents, city staff, a couple of council members were there as well, College of Western Idaho faculty and students. We also had members of the the press there so we did get some coverage from our promotion. We answered questions and we did provide a supplemental to Rodney and his team regarding just a quick summary of that event that occurred as well. We will continue to conduct this community engagement. Our first step was to introduce it, then to look at our land use approval, and then we will move forward with our Federal Aviation Administration approval as well. It's a lengthy process, the land use being the shorter of the two, while the FAA process is quite substantial, requires that environmental assessment. But we want to be very clear as to what we are looking to do at the site, answer questions about the service. So where are we today? Today we're here seeking your approval from the City of Nampa Planning and Zoning Commission for the approval of this conditional use permit. If we are approved, that will allow us to continue to proceed forward with airspace coordination. I know you did receive inquiry from the Nampa Airport Commission. We've responded to those comments as well in a written document. We are meeting in person with the airport to discuss specific regulatory and airspace feedback and concerns they have, as well as our coordination with the FAA. That's an ongoing process, again, driven by our federal regulatory partners. We would then file the necessary building permits to construct this paddock in the western parking lot, and we would look to conduct further community outreach as we've done in other markets where we operate. And then ultimately securing that final approval from the FAA so we can commence our operations. Our goal is to bring this new innovation that is additive, that allows customers to select the service when they need it. For those that don't wish to use it, they can receive packages the manner they do so, but we believe this innovation, we've seen great high demand in markets where we currently operate, and we believe it's a great addition to our existing footprint that we have here in the city of Nampa. Thank you very much to the city staff. We know this is a very unique project to bring forward. It's often not explicitly called out in development code, and we appreciate the commission, after a long night, hearing a very unique project towards the end. Happy to answer any questions again. My name is Sam Bailey, Senior Manager of Economic Development Policy at Amazon. Thank you.

Mr. Chair. Yeah. Sam, how long? So say when a drone takes off, how long was it? Does it take for a round trip to the far reaches of your seven mile radius and back? What, what, what does that look like?

Yeah, Commissioner, that's the shortest part of the trip. Our fastest collected delivery time was just over 15 minutes in Texas from when someone hit buy now to the delivery occurring to their house. Depends on where they are. Obviously, weather conditions play into that. But that is less than 10 minutes, sometimes less than seven minutes because we're commuting about 70 miles per hour or 70 knots to the customer between 200 and 400 feet and then dropping the packages and returning. The biggest challenge we have, getting your customer order. out of our very, very large building. We're working on that, though.

So in your presentation, it looked like there was a lower flight level and a higher flight level. They go out one level and come back the other. Is that how they do it?

Commissioner, yes. So in order, we will plan to have between 12 and 15 drones based at this site. As we look to de-conflict our drones flying outbound and then inbound to the site, we will send our drones outbound to the customer at about an average of 225 feet plus out to the customer and then bring them back at a higher altitude between that 300 to 400 feet. That middle range we reserve if we need to have a drone conduct a U-turn and come back to the fulfillment center. It's a spacing by altitude that we de-conflict them. But we also utilize what's called an unmanned traffic management system. Think of it as air traffic control for drones under 500 feet. So it allows us to monitor and de-conflict our drones from one another. And then should another commercial operator, which we experience in places like the Dallas metro area, come into the market, it allows for our flights to be de-conflicted from their flights. So we also employ an air traffic control type system to monitor our drones to ensure they're de-conflicted from ourselves as well as from other potential users that may enter the market.

First, I just assumed that that my wife's package would not interfere with my daughter's package as they were coming and going at the same time. That's why the difference in there. But really, how many, what's the customer number right now that you might be looking at? I mean, how many, because obviously there's some restrictions there with the Nampa Airport going south and north. So what's the customer reach, the number right now that you're looking at, do you know?

Commissioner, we don't share a customer reachability just based on privacy. What I can tell you is a site in Richardson, Texas does between 200 and 300 flights per day. A site in the Kansas City area, Kansas City, Kansas area would be around 100 to 200. So it varies, and weather is a big impact to that. Wind speed will impact our ability to serve that. And then organic customer demand. it's up to the customers to determine if they want it.

So it's safe to say that that Nampins could see up to possibly two, 300 drones flying around the city of Nampa on a given day. Possibly.

I mean, I know there's a lot of variables in there, but 100, 300 maybe even. Yes. Based on ideal weather conditions, organic customer demand, we will also serve beyond the city of Nampa where applicable. And one of the things that we do is we do make a multi-jurisdictional notification to county and other municipalities of our operations occurring here. We do coordinate with local and regional law enforcement as well that may have drone responder programs. So we want to make sure that one, we started our home base, which is Nampa, but then we expand that notification to other jurisdictions, and other relevant agencies, just as we do with our airport partners through the Federal Aviation Administration approval process.

And with those outlying areas, if expanded, would they still be serviced from one location, or would you have to build, like, another spaceport and another drone port in another portion of the valley?

So, Commissioner, we have two fulfillment centers located in the city of Nampa, our BOI-2 site, which is the large one, and then we have a smaller, sub-same-day fulfillment center, SID-1. BOI-2 is where we feel we can do that. from a safety perspective without conflicting with the airport. So for now, we're focused solely on our Boy 2 site.

And we're still looking at seven and a half mile radius, right? Correct. Yeah.

Follow up, Sam. So if you were to go to out expand operations, is there a limit to how far one of the drones can fly on a charge or are there limitations to how far you could service?

Commissioner, our drones have a seven and a half mile radius. They generally return to our fulfillment center with a 60 to 70% charge left in the battery. We will still swap out and put in a fully charged battery for every flight. We're not treating it like a teenager cell phone. If at any point the battery drops to about 31%, it will trigger a safe contingent landing where it immediately puts itself on the ground. We'd recover it with a van. So safety, number one. We could fly further. That would require additional approvals from the FAA if we expanded that region. But that seven and a half mile radius gives us that safety buffer that if we encounter inclement weather where there's increased wind speeds, we have sufficient and plenty of charge left to get it safely back. Means to also go recover it if we have to put it down on the ground safely. But the goal right now is seven and a half miles.

I can see easily, readily, how you drop off the package, but how do you pick up the package? Does somebody stand out there and connect it to the drone or how does that work? Uh, commissioner, we'll drop the package in your backyard. No, no. How did it get, how did it pick up the package in the first place? Where'd it come from?

Yeah. So the primary drone delivery center is the drone port where we launch the drones from. So this would be in the parking lot. So we will load each drone with a customer order and a battery, put it onto the launch pad. That's what I'm asking.

Somebody actually does this? Correct, yes. Okay, so it's not automatic.

Correct, yes. We are bringing our goods, our completed customer orders out to the paddock where it's loaded by Amazon Associates with the battery as well as a customer order for it to then take off. And our monitors are also based locally monitoring all the flight weather radar and the telemetry data of our drones. Also another question.

Um, normally we don't have police officers come to our meetings. Was he requested by you or why don't we have a police officer?

That was for the church.

You know, I believe we're right. No offense to the officer. I, I did not make the request, but I appreciate you being here. Uh, so I didn't make the request. No Rodney.

and it came up this morning in a meeting that there may be anticipated crowds. We didn't know it'd be for the item before this one. And so just in a moment of caution, that was just a common practice.

That's what I was curious to know. Do you have opposition in other areas of the country, and that's why we did it, because we anticipate a problem here, but obviously that's not the case.

Yeah, it's a question for them. For us, it was just we thought there would be numbers. Okay. But, yeah.

You picked the wrong one. Number three is what you wanted, not number four. Commissioner, I will say the Nampa Police Department did attend our community meeting. I did speak with their UAS manager. We are doing some follow-up post our engagement with the airport just to discuss alignment, deconfliction, so that we are good partners with the police departments as they have priority.

But you have not experienced opposition from the public in other locations?

Commissioner, to that point, we have experienced questions regarding why do you need something so fast. Things like privacy have come up, the perception of drones. Our drones don't have any surveillance type operations or equipment like that of a police drone. So ours is simply for the safe delivery of a package. So those are the common concerns just because it is a new novel technology. often what we get is why would someone need something so fast?

Looks like Henry Ford when he first came out with the Ford. I mean, he had all kinds of opposition, but look at what we got out of him.

You can have any color as long as it's black. I believe Henry Ford said that.

So, Mr. Chair, the, oh. Yeah, but I've talked a lot more than you. Yes, you do. Oh, I'm sorry. Fear of the moment. So while you're remembering, there's cameras on the drones, though, because there seems like there has to be in order to find the location to drop the package.

Correct, Commissioner. So there's a forward-facing camera. As you can see here, the dots in the center and then the square in the middle. So you have a forward-facing camera and LiDAR system for detection and avoidance while we navigate to the customer. The rear-facing is actually on the bottom. It's where the black... Let me just come around here. It's integrated with the landing gear. And so when the drone transitions, what you see right now is vertical, vertical ascent and descent mode. When it's coming down to the customer's delivery point, it's scanning that delivery point they selected to determine there aren't humans or animals or some obstacle at the point. It's strictly there to identify, is there an obstacle before we drop the package at 13 feet? If you were to stand under it and try and catch it, we would detect your presence there and we would, cancel the delivery, ascend, and return the fulfillment.

So it's more like a motion detector on the bottom of that. Correct.

It's purely to make sure we're not dropping it on you, a child, a dog, a ficus tree you planted, and is it your delivery point. And if you make changes, we can make changes.

Yeah, because I could see where that would be quite a lot of pushback is you've got all these, and I'm being facetious here, but you've got all these drones flying all over the city with each one equipped with cameras and flying into people's backyards and dropping things and taking cameras or pictures and video of neighbors and everything else going on. So I think that would be where most of the resistance might come from.

Commissioner, I think the initial concerns are it does have surveillance capability. The fact is it does not have surveillance or tracking capabilities like that of a police drone. It's strictly for safe navigation and operations.

Is there a possibility that it could? have that? I mean, I know you're saying that it doesn't like a police drone, but is there a possibility that something, one of these drones might have that capability or could be used for that capability?

So commissioner, it is not a possibility with the Mark 30 that we have in service and we operate in states where it's explicitly prohibited by state law. All right. That's what I'm getting to. Yes. So like in Texas, there's state governing code that prevents us from conduct, prevents commercial operators from conducting commercial surveillance using our drones. We don't have the capability to look through window, trace a phase, trace a license plate, Uh, as we navigate. So yeah.

So when law enforcement says I need to get into your iPhone because there's my, they can't come to Amazon and say, I need to get, I need to access the video of this MK 30 drone. It's just not possible because it's not there.

Correct.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yes. Commissioner, great question. So not all items are eligible for drone delivery. So we might not be delivering brand new wine glasses via drone, but the box is about the size of shoe box and we specially designed it to handle that drop. So we can deliver things like an iPad safely to you, AirPods, other consumables, that you would regularly use. So not all things are eligible for drone delivery, but we work to identify with vendors, with manufacturers, what can safely make that. And so a lot of study goes into what can be loaded into the drone versus what can't. Commissioner, about over 60% of the items stored at a fulfillment center, like BOI-2, would be eligible for drone delivery. And this fulfillment center, it's an Amazon Roblox fulfillment center. So the items are generally 50 pounds or less fit in a standard garage. So it's a smaller consumables, a TV or something of that size and scale, bigger items over 50 pounds come from a different type of fulfillment center called the traditional non-sortable fulfillment center. Things that don't easily move on conveyance. So we have buildings for a variety of different products, large and small. Yes. Thank you. Chair.

A few questions for you. Let's start with, have you ever been denied in a marketplace to put one of these in, either by public approval or FAA approval?

Commissioner, to date I have not been denied when going before a governing body to approve drone delivery. We've also been approved through a variety of means, and I've gone through planning zoning commissions, city councils, board of zoning adjustments, city planning commissions. We've been permitted by right in some jurisdictions. We've gone through a variety of approval processes. To date, I have not been denied when going forward with the project. Part of that is we spent a lot of time on the community engagement part, which we started earlier this month. We will continue that process as we move forward. We have also not been denied by the FAA to conduct our operations from one of our existing sites that's in eligible airspace. We have some sites that sit in locations where they're naturally ineligible based on proximity to an airport.

And how many failures have you had in the drones?

So for your question, Commissioner, regarding failures, we've had two incidents, one in Tulsa, Arizona, where we have an operation. The second was in Richardson, Texas, and I can describe both of those. The first was a crane that was not permitted, was erected nearby our fulfillment center. A notice to airmen was not also provided for that crane. And so the crane was operating out of compliance. We had two drones on a return flight, strike the boom area of that crane. They were damaged, no one was injured. That was a reportable incident to the FAA. Again, this being an FAA regulated vehicle. The second was we had a drone departing a delivery at a multifamily development in Richardson, Texas. Upon departing that site, it did clip the gutter of the, property, the awning sticking out from the property. The drone then came down as it attempted to conduct a safe contingent landing, but was destroyed upon hitting the ground. No one was injured. We did work with the property management company to make them whole. After they assessed the damage to the property, it was about $1,900. Both cases, we did make communication to the jurisdiction and filed reports with the FAA.

Any consideration given to distractions? 84 runs right next to this facility. Any consideration given to daily distraction, things flying? I mean, people stop, they see a police officer pulled over, everybody hits their brakes. So that's legitimate. Traffic does do odd things by minor things. So is there any consideration that this might create?

Commissioner, in our approval with the FAA, there are some exemptions and there are some conditions. One of which is we do not fly directly over roads or interstates. So we're not flying like a car driving over the roads directly. We can cross them. So we can cross the interstate to get to the customer, but you won't see our drones flying along the interstate for that very purpose. Also, in case we had to conduct a safe contingent landing for inclement weather, we would be landing on an interstate, a busy interstate. Us flying between 200 and 400 feet at 70 miles an hour makes it pretty hard to see it because of the altitude that we're at. So if you're driving, you'll be lucky to see it or hear it explicitly. Now, the proximity to our site, because we're over industrial area, we can climb to that operating altitude quite quickly. And so we are further out of sight from ongoing traffic.

And my final question is, What's driving this? Is it pure profitability? Or what's driving the whole drone delivery system, the purpose of doing that? You just mentioned some of the public pushback is why does somebody need a package so fast? That is one portion. So I'd like to hear what exactly is driving the reason and the development of this.

Commissioner, we find customer demand has moved us from three to five day to next day to same day to then within an hour or less. And I think what we find is there is a customer experience and a customer base that either needs it on a regular basis, may demand it on a one or two time basis, but it varies. And I think what we have seen in my experience and approvals is that we have seniors who are at home, might not be able to easily get into a car, Parents, I have three little kids. When you figure out your Motrin's expired and someone popped a fever, it's hard to get everyone in the car to go to a busy grocery store rush hour. And so I think what we find is that it is something that people desire and utilize because of a variety of conditions. It might be they can't leave their home, they have kids, they forgot that one ingredient, their children's medicine had expired. I think what we find is there's a different level of demand based on what the customer demands. We have found, for example, one of our sites in Texas has done about 26,000 deliveries since December. And that just kind of speaks to it is a high demand site. We do see demand for this, and that's occurring at our sites across the network. So it might not be for every order that they do it, but for the orders when they need something in a pinch, it's an available service that is there. And we see it's not just Prime Air. There are other commercial operators who operate out of retail, grocery retail establishments, or food establishments that can also deliver via drone. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

I got one more question. The sound and public nuisance, if you will, the potential sound that these drones might make when they're dropping in, when they're coming in to drop off the package in the backyard or the front yard in a subdivision, How much will you be able to hear that drone? Will you be able to hear that drone from inside the house or would the neighbor be able to hear that drone from inside their house?

Commissioner, depending on proximity houses and dense, this was in a denser area in Tulsa and Arizona where we conducted this. So 68 decibels, it's about brief exposure for about 20 seconds when it is descending at your property. and then ascending and getting out of space. It's brief during daytime hours. Brief would be how many seconds or a minute? From when it's coming down to your house, when it's getting to a level where you're standing, 20 seconds for it to come down, drop the package, and then elevate.

But it's not any louder than a neighbor's lawnmower going on at 10 o'clock in the morning.

If you think about a comparable diesel truck, if you're standing next to it, not comparable, ours is electric. If you think about a diesel truck idling, that's between 80 and 100 decibels if you're standing next to it or within 50 feet and there's not ambient noise around. There's also ambient noise in the community of wind, traffic, things like that. So again, 68 decibels and the level of noise you see on the left is from the American Audiology Association, where we looked at comparable sounds. Again, brief exposure, common noise, albeit it's a new innovation, so it's going to seem different, but not any different than a delivery truck coming down your street, stopping, delivering a package.

And just for comparison, so would it be louder? I mean, do you know what the decibel is of a lawnmower? I mean, where does that come from? Just because that seems to be the most common sound that someone might hear or a dog barking or, you know, things like that.

So 90 decibels is where a lawnmower would be. Okay. And it's listed here in the very loud. I'm sorry, I can't see all the way. Oh, no, I'm sorry.

It's a little blurry from there.

There you go. Okay.

No, it's literally blurry on the thing, I think. I can read it. Okay. That's answered my questions, and thank you. Thank you.

I got one question. So do you have data on how many accidents do your delivery vehicles on the road have? How many accidents per year do you have in your vehicle deliveries?

Commissioner, I don't have that data on me, but that can't speak to our vehicle traffic accidents that occur just based on the conditions. I don't have that information in front of me.

No, I was just thinking the one in Texas, you said 26,000 since December deliveries. Correct. And you've only had two incidents with your drones total, right?

Correct.

Thank you.

Okay. That's all for now. We'll call you back up.

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Mr. Ashby.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioners. Rodney Ashby, Planning and Zoning Director for the record. I'm gonna share quite a bit of information on this, just data from the staff report. I'm gonna show it on the screen, but I'm gonna try to just summarize it just because most of it, you had the opportunity to read it in the staff report. I just want it available to the public to be totally transparent, so. Again, just the request before you is a conditional use permit because of a unlisted land use. And we'll get into that detail in a second here. So the comprehensive plan lists this as a community mixed use. The zone is GB1 zoning and it's surrounded by IP and GB1 zones with different commercial and industrial properties around it. You can see that there on the screen. The history is that Amazon received a conditional use permit in 2018 to be constructed and then they went through the design review process and were approved on July 9th, 2018. This is a section of our code that just lists why we're having a conditional use permit here and I've underlined the area that's most important here. When a land use is not listed then we can require the CEP and this is a new one for me. I've never done this all the years I've been here so it was not listed. This is the purpose behind a conditional use permit. These are just uses that potentially cause a concern, need a little more interest in it and public involvement, and then you can add conditions onto these to mitigate the concerns. This is a quasi-judicial decision before you, so I think Preston likes to say put on your robes in this situation, and they have to, the decision before you today is do they comply with these four criteria? And if they do or they don't, that's your decision. 1034-10A7A lists fencing requirements and this is valid here because what they're proposing is some fencing that appeared to be chain link fencing in some situations and then wood fencing. That is typically not allowed in a commercial zone but because of the unique characteristics of this, uh, being a security area that they have to enclose these areas. Um, I think there may be some validity to granting this, um, because state code allows you and local code allows you to, um, make an exception to this section of code. Um, For the fencing and so I would suggest that if you do approve this if it is Recommended for if you decide to approve it. This is your decision Then you adopt the conditions which allow the chain-link fencing that I'll show in just a minute and excuse me, the wood fencing with, I think there's a gate. I'll show that in just a second here. So correspondence, we received a pretty lengthy correspondence from the Nampa Airport Commission. And I'm gonna just summarize this here. So the first thing that they stated was they would recommend that you don't approve this until documentation is shown that they address these things. airspace coordination and FAA compliance, and then they list several things there. Safety and operational procedures related to aircraft and conflicts, including weather, And then the last bullet point there is presence of fail-safe systems such as controlled descent or parachutes. I think we've heard about the controlled descent already tonight. Ground risk and land use. Concerns about the residential areas, schools, parks, and hospitals. Measures to mitigate risk to people and property, I'll keep moving. Liability and insurance was a concern there. They wanted to see proof of that. Incident reporting and accountability. This is one I've tried to address in a proposed condition that I'll have you consider. Privacy and data collection. I think we've addressed that with the type of cameras that are being used here. Noise and community impacts. We've also talked about that already. Emergency coordination. I think we've addressed that as well. The police department, or fire department, if there was an issue, they could contact Amazon and basically ground their drones. Operational scale and expansion. The flight volumes we've talked about this evening already. Environmental considerations. This was some of the most significant correspondence I received from the public was addressing the environmental impact. And then community communication. How do we communicate with them if there's an issue? Kenyon County Development Services just indicated concerns this might have on crop dusting and the fire comments just listed how far they are. We're already serving this area currently. It's 2.7 miles from the nearest fire station and then that's an approximate response time of six minutes. I had two comments that were from the public and then you had two late comments that we received after the presentation was developed and the staff report was submitted. So the first comment that I received was they were opposed due to concerns about the headaches and potential dangers of drones carrying boxes. they requested the city not allow a retailer to hover their devices over private property. It seemed to be about privacy, mostly. And then the second one was a petition opposing the use of the airspace. and expressed concerns about noise impact to residents and to wildlife, arguing that the noise at levels of a lawnmower can cause hawks and other animals to relocate. Expressed interest in preserving the tranquility, safety, and natural beauty of our skies. And then I just wanted to list the names and locations of those who supported this petition. So that's listed here. I was really surprised to see Mexico on here. I don't think I've ever gotten comments from Mexico and Spain. Yeah. Yep. Those, Mr. Chair, would you like me to respond to the comment we heard from the public? Okay. Um, these are people who are opposed and it's that a petition opposing the use of airspace above Nampa for drone delivery. Thanks for clarifying. Uh, okay. So staff analysis, prime air drone delivery center or the paddock, um, at Boise boy to, um, will be utilized as a secure launch pad for drones to be launched to conduct customer deliveries using inventory from inside the existing fulfillment center. So that's the purpose. The size and facilities I've listed here. You've seen that in your staff report. I'll keep moving. This is the location. Franklin is to the north and Starr or Robinson to the east. A little closer view of that site and how they would the path of how they would deliver those products. The question was asked, how do they get the products into the drones? They're walking across that area on. You can see a dashed line there. Proposed travel path to from the facility to that location. There's the site. Um, fence exception. Here it is. Uh, I've already talked about that. Um, this is the fence proposal. So that's that one of the gates, the, um, this is the wood portion of the fence. Here's another gate. Yeah. Would there be any razor wire or anything like that on top of the fence?

I didn't see anything there. No. I put them to saying no.

And these were proposals that they have already submitted to the city for approval. OK, so the parking, just real high level. They're way over parked, and they have plenty of parking to continue to operate their facility, even with the loss of 114 spaces. Operating times, that's already been mentioned. Drone regulatory approval. The FAA, they'll have to go through that federal aviation approval. And so I have no expertise there, but I just listed all the things that they told me they still have to go through. Airspace authorization, same thing. There was quite a bit of data that they provided to me to indicate that there's significant oversight by the FAA for how they operate in the airspace. Privacy, we've talked about that. The cameras, the height of their travel I think is significant there. They're not just flying through a neighborhood. They're going way above the neighborhood and dropping down when they get to the location. Then the noise, I wanted to just highlight this. This is approximately 500 feet from the location of this site. I didn't know exactly where it was going to go, so I just tried to give you a sense of the distance from the proposed location. As you can see, there really isn't any of buildings within that 500 foot radius. Maybe it'll clip the building on the, the aerial on the right hand side to the northwest corner. You can see maybe it would clip that area there. The 500 foot is the decibel level of, and it would be 53 to 55 decibels. And then 68 decibel levels for someone who is in their backyard when the drone delivers the package in the backyard. This is about the same decibels as operating a vacuum. I think he's done a good job of already indicating his approval process that he had to go through to get the FAA to approve the drone itself and all the safety features that go on to the drone. Safety mitigation for Nampa Airport. This was in response to the airport's comments. My summary of this is that they've been able to provide me enough data and enough confirmation that they are going to address each of the airport commission's concerns. The proposed conditions, number one is approval of the proposed fence and gates as shown in the staff report is granted as an exception to the design review code for fencing materials in a commercial zoning district. It could be argued that you're far enough back that you're not really seeing it from the road. It could be argued that two materials are there, wood and the chain link fence and some metal. I don't know that it's decorative, which is one of the conditions in the design review code, but you can certainly put that as a condition if you feel like that needs to change in any way. And then number two, except as outlined in the conditions of approval, applicant owners shall comply with all city codes, policies, and standards at the time of building construction. The location of the primary drone delivery center will generally match what we showed in the staff report. Prior to any drones being approved to fly from the paddock, all required Federal Aviation Administration approvals shall first be obtained. Amazon shall provide the city of Nampa local contact for complaints or concerns regarding drones. This was in response to the airport commission's concerns there that they have somebody to contact. Um, and so I recommended this as a condition and then that they would update that regularly. If that changes at all, then we would get an update with that contact information. Um, And then B on number five is the contact or authorized, the contact or authorized representative shall be reasonably accessible within 72 hours for non-emergency contacts and within four, that's a typo, within four hours to the city of Nampa for complaints or concerns about emergency situations. I'll correct that. Yeah, that was. And then here's the proposed findings. I'm not going to go over these, but I will head to the end where we list our conclusion. So based on all of this data, there's quite a bit of information in your packet, I know. We came to the conclusion that it did comply with those four criteria listed in code. And this is, I'm not gonna read this, but essentially it complies with the comprehensive plan because of its economic development that it's providing for our community. It is, Let's look at the other criteria real quick. I think this was Design, construction, operation and maintenance of the property and project will not adversely impact the intended character and appearance of the general vicinity. This area is industrial and commercial. I don't see that as an issue. Again, we're thinking about land use here. And then the operation side of things is a later criteria. So the land use is what we're talking about on the Amazon property here. And then finally, the third and fourth is that the proposed use will be served adequately by essential public facilities and services. It's already being serviced. The proposed use will involve activities, will not involve activities or processes essentially that are unsafe or that will be a detriment to the welfare of our community. And this is where the operations, I think with all the safety features that they've included and the contact information that they will be providing as part of a condition here, that they comply with that one. So with that, here are a couple of motions for your consideration. And just one more reminder, this is a quasi-judicial decision, so it has to match that criteria. It can't just be based on not wanting drones in the city of Nampa. Thank you, Rodney.

Do we have a sign-up sheet?

We do. Our first is Stephen Seiwick. Our second is Wendy Dabane.

Hello, my name's Wendy Dabane. I live at 716 9th Avenue South in the Old Nampa Historic District. This Amazon proposal diminishes Namponians' quality of life. Drones and our computers flying over our communities, emitting high frequency sounds, bothersome to humans, animals, have been known to cause several complaints with residential communities. No one wants a drone hovering over their barbecue with a barking dog in the backyard. Deer Flat National Wildlife Refuge is established, or was established by Teddy Roosevelt in 1909. It's three miles from downtown Nampa. There lives a host of migrating birds, migrating to Nampa every year to nest at Lake Lowell. A few of them are red-tailed hawks. They are strictly protected by both federal and state laws. Western, I think it's gerbs, really cool little birds. They dive under the water. It's protected by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. With species come... Sorry, I'm nervous. Conservation concerns due to low populations. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game have classified the western gerb as a protected non-game species. Owls, every species of owls are federally protected. Bald eagles and gold eagles had their own protection act enacted in 1940. Peregrine falcons, there has been known to have a pair that have successfully nested on a box on an Almagated Sugar's Beet Factory storage silos since 1990. Over three decades, it strictly prohibits, protects these federal, They are protected species. You can tell migrating birds to turn, turn right, lie down, take a quick left, avoid Nampa, but that's not gonna work with migrating birds. as they migrate to Lake Lowell, the Snake River, and to the birds of prey. The presence of drones and their noise can alter the wildlife behavior, trigger physical stress, and lead to habitat displacement. I strongly recommend you to deny this proposal. Thank you for hearing me.

Thank you.

That was our only sign-up.

Okay, is there anyone else that would like to go ahead? Come on up.

Doug Pels at 11668 West Verona Drive, Nampa. And I haven't done 180, but I have some thoughts for your consideration. As I was listening tonight, about three years ago, I had some thoughts that Amazon, when it first started talking about mobile delivery with drones, would work like beat trucks. As you all know, the beat trucks around that we have are open at the top. They're semi trucks that are open at the top. You fill them up and then they go to the beat factory. And my thought was they were going to learn how to use these drones to go beyond the building and beyond major roads so that they have a much larger seven and a half mile limit that they can reach from their mobile truck that just drives around and picks it out. And so that they're, instead of having more vans dropping them off, they just have bigger trucks that just pick them out of the, out of the trailer and then drop it off and then come back to the trailer. Or maybe it goes back to home base or whatever. But my point is that I want you to give consideration that that's coming and that this is a good way to see how it works from a standstill point landing a launch point that is not mobile because mobile is probably coming and I based that on what we've watched happening over in Ukraine and how they move drones to more forward locations before launching them and that even our US are building drones that carry drones. And so they're launching them mobile, not from necessarily a stand site. So it's coming. And so I wanted to give that some thought as to this is a way of possibly seeing how it works, including working out the bugs. And it won't be just Amazon. I put in food trucks might wanna take this on, Home Depot might wanna take this on. When they're delivering, a $5 item for me. I don't know, they made much money on it. But if they could zip it over in two minutes, it might be something that they would want to explore as well. Or the public library wanting to drop off books. to residents. So I think it's coming. Also the public, the police interest in the drones, I thought that was an interesting question because they might want to find a way to be able to use some of that material just for flight patterns on, hey, is somebody dropping off, do they want to drop off a listening device to somebody's place?

Mr. Chair, time.

Okay, I have 35 seconds. I was curious at what they are dealing with lithium battery fires with the fire department.

Yeah, no, that's three minutes is all we're allowed. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Please come on up.

Commissioners, my name is Robin Sellers. I'm the Director of Economic Development for the City of Nampa. Thank you for having Amazon here today. I just wanted to mention, to add on, Amazon has picked Nampa for two of its sites to do their delivery service and they've been great partners for the city and worked with us. And again, trying to work through a process that's not normal. and trying to help our community. I think one thing, too, that I haven't heard is that it does take trucks off the road, and it's an option to lighten traffic on 84, so I like that element as well. And so just thank you for your consideration of having this additional option that Amazon's trying to offer.

Thank you.

Chanda Cybick, 11155 West Langett Street, Starr, Idaho. Mr. Chair, Vice Chair, and Commissioners, I know it's odd that I'm coming from Starr, Idaho, but what we're not seeing in the second half of the presentation is the project scope with the drones are in use. I don't know if you're aware of that, but if you have, I don't know if staff can pull up a map of the cities that will have drone delivery availability with the seven and a half mile radius. I think that's important to note because a CUP is very unique in that way. I don't believe it just involves fencing and 114 parking spaces. It involves tens of thousands of Treasure Valley residents. And from my understanding, to note, when I contacted the City of Star, the staff was unaware of the CUP request, which affects Star residents. And when I contacted my representative, Mr. Mike Moyle, he was also unaware of the CUP. being presented tonight and that affects tens of thousands of Idahoans. I'm pro-business. I'm an Idaho native. I am grateful for our economy and I'm also for common sense when concerning a CUP of this magnitude. I believe that we really have to take consideration of who owns our God-given skies and Even tonight, I ordered an Amazon Prime shirt to tell you I got it tonight before the meeting. The packages I get come very quickly already, and I don't feel like drone usage is urgent or necessary at this time. Something else to note, Mr. Sam Bailey lives in Colorado. There's no drone usage in Colorado, despite his position at Amazon. There's no drones flying over his neighborhood. And based on public information, Amazon Prime Air has been approved in only nine US cities. Two cities that weren't discussed tonight were cities that repealed the drone usage, and that includes College Station, Texas. I think it's important to look up that information of why they were appealed. It was generally on disturbances of their cities and also the noise levels. So if you do approve the CUP, I would just consider that a lot of the Treasure Valley would be impacted by the use of drones without a lot of the community knowing that. I would ask that you would please consider more narrow operational hours, not the 30 minutes before sunrise and the 30 minutes after sunrise. Consider flying drones only in Nampa since the CUP relates to you all. And I very much respect your position as gatekeepers. Again, like supporting the economy, business, just being aware of the very large impact of this for the whole Treasure Valley. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you. Anyone else?

I'm Julie Pelz, and I live at 11668 West Rana Drive here in Napa. And my one question is, what's the impact on our power grid? We all know that lithium batteries require a whole lot of power. and if they're gonna put that many in there, how is that gonna affect our power grid?

Thank you. Anybody else? Okay, would you like to come back up?

Thank you, commissioners, and appreciate the public staying late for this. I took some notes. I'm happy to walk through a couple of these key points that came out. Regarding birds migratory patterns, so as part of the FAA's approval process, we have to conduct an environmental assessment to secure what's called a FONSI or a finding of no significant impact. So that is a lengthy report. All of our FONSI's are available on the FAA's website that will highlight the research that the FAA puts in along with US Fish and Wildlife as well as state agencies to what are the impacts on the environment. That includes migratory patterns of birds. We also make available the contact information because for constituents in other markets where we've operated, there's a direct email address associated with each environmental assessment. So constituents can make direct outreach to the FAA regarding our specific application. So we conduct the environmental assessment with the FAA, but the public also has the ability to support, oppose, write concerns to the FAA directly. The city can do it. Idaho Department of Fish and Game can do that as well. So that is also a very public process. So we take that into account. We do everything from migratory patterns to we buy historic radar data to track where helicopters fly. So we're always looking at what's currently operating in the airspace and then how we mitigate that to reduce the potential safety concerns we would have of something like a bird strike. So that is a public process. Regarding the hub and spoke trailer model, which I thought was really interesting, we're not quite there yet. We will be If approved, we will only be taking off from our Boyd II fulfillment center. That's really where we focus. Regarding the lithium ion batteries, we monitor both the temperature of the batteries while they are charging in our battery vault system, about the size of a US mailbox, US postal mailbox, as well as while they're flying. If at any point we detect thermal runaway or increased temperatures, we can address that, mitigate that, contact the fire department. Often with fire departments, we file an energy systems permit to notify them of the quantity of batteries, the types of batteries, and the associated fire suppression systems that we have with that. Just staying on the topic of power, regarding the power to power these systems, we're utilizing power that's already available at our Void 2 Fulfillment Center, which is substantial in nature, has the capacity to support this operation. regarding Candace, Candace, thank you, from Star, Idaho. So we have not made our multi-jurisdictional notification to other jurisdictions yet because we don't have land use approval to even operate from Napa yet. Should we receive that approval, we will notify them. My contact information goes on that notification and we get the opportunity to then go and present to those cities, those jurisdictions, those counties regarding our intent to operate and also outline the federal approval process that we go to. So whether you're in Star or Nampa, you can also provide that feedback. But we're focused on the land use of where we are taking off from, and that's the application before you, but that is a notification that we make as part of our process. Excuse me, Mr.

Chair, can I ask a question on that note? Yes. Does that mean that each jurisdiction would have to approve, or you're just saying, hey, we're coming to you?

So, Commissioner, because we don't land in someone's backyard, we don't require land use approval in that jurisdiction because we are dropping the package. We are taking off and returning to Nampa for every flight, but we are not seeking a land use approval as we are routing through federally regulated airspace. And I also, sorry, I apologize, there was one more comment. Regarding the College Station site, we decided not to renew a lease at that site. We weren't kicked out of that community. We decided not to renew a lease. That was not a fulfillment center. That was a standalone site where we piloted Prime Air. And the intention there was let's move our operations to our existing fulfillment centers, which are naturally located in more commercial industrial operations. That location in particular, the nearest home was about 500 feet away. And so it was a site that we found that was eligible for DRONE DELIVERY, BUT WE DECIDED AFTER EXECUTING A LEASE, OPERATING, GETTING COMMUNITY FEEDBACK, WE ACTUALLY CREATED THE MARK 30 DRONE OUT OF FEEDBACK WE GOT FROM COLLEGE STATION BEFORE WE HAD THE MARK 27. IT WAS A LOUDER DRONE WITH LESSER RANGE. WE INNOVATED BASED ON THAT FEEDBACK, BUT THEN ULTIMATELY WE DECIDED THAT REALLY ISN'T THE BEST PLACE FOR US TO BE. WE SHOULD BE EMBEDDED WITH OUR FULFILLMENT CENTERS, WHERE THE INVENTORY IS, NATURALLY IN INDUSTRIAL AREAS, FURTHER STEP BACK FROM RESIDENTIAL. THAT'S WHY WE LEFT COLLEGE STATION.

I have a couple more questions. So airport designation, Boise airport designated BOI. I can't I don't know what an emphasis does a drone port have that type of FAA designation? Just curious more than anything else.

Yeah, so our drone are the paddock often will have its own physical address for the purposes of emergency response. It is an FAA-regulated site, but it's not given airport code. It'll get a code from us, but it will not have its own unique airport code. The drones themselves, though, do have tail numbers, and so they are all individually marked, and they are branded with Amazon. So they are easily identifiable.

Okay. And then as far as, there's no audio recording or anything like that on these drones, correct?

Correct.

Okay. So they couldn't pick up a conversation or something like that anymore?

No, they could. Yeah. Commissioner. No, they could not pick up a conversation.

And then how far away, and it's probably to staff, if you had an opportunity to look this up seven and a half miles from the, from boy to what's the, where do we land seven and a half miles down the road?

Which direction?

Anywhere you want to go.

So seven and a half miles is basically to the middle of the, of Lake Lowell from this location. And then it does reach into star and parts of Meridian. And I think that's Caldwell. Caldwell.

Okay. So, all right. That gives me a really good understanding.

Commissioner, can I caveat that? That is all those subject to eligible airspace and that we are not interrupting approaches, heavy routed helicopter traffic or other traffic. And so again, that perfect circle will look like quite the checkerboard when we are done with that input from our local partners as well as the FAA. So again, not everyone will be eligible based on airspace. Okay.

So for someone like, for someone like Jeff that lives south of the airport,

he just out of luck or does it as long as it can go seven and a half miles or all the way around you know what i mean yeah it's my wife that would be out of luck though you'd be in luck commissioner if if we cannot safely navigate there and we there's any conflict with uh napa municipal um commissioner kirkman is going to have to get it through a van um so that that circle gets shorter real quick when you have to go around two and a half miles around an airport And we have to assess in our navigation, is it feasible to navigate around any approaches? Because the airport also has standoffs. So there's not just the airport property and the runways, but there's standoffs. So we do have to have separation as those pilots are navigating in. So again, most customers who are located in proximity to the airport are not going to be eligible for drone delivery. And so again, it's early in the process, but that's what we're working through with the airport commission and the FAA to determine eligibility Similarly, if you live within half a mile of a, or half a kilometer of a hospital with a Flight for Life operation, we meet with those hospitals to determine their frequency. We speak with their operators. We install a no-fly zone. So we have locations in other parts of the US where there's a half a kilometer no-fly zone. Our drones can't deliver to the hospital or anyone within half a kilometer.

I'm envisioning more like a slice of pie out of the circle. Yeah.

And they're always going to be dead spots, really. I do, but I'll save it until after the public hearing is closed. Chair, can I? Please.

Commissioner, so... because my wife's from Kansas, crop dusters fly very low, but they also ascend and then they will enter into some patterns on a normal basis. So we engage everyone from crop dusting to national balloon associations to determine who are all of the operators in the market from law enforcement, crop dusting. So that all comes into our federal regulatory approval. We work with the flight standard district offices or the regional offices of the FAA to determine who is everyone in the service territory and the surrounding area that we need to engage to discuss and interact with our operations so we don't come into conflict with that. We even look at their flight frequency, similar to like hospitals, how often they're sending the helicopter in for whether it's a trauma one center or a regional center, just to then augment our operations so we don't conflict. Yeah, so in Arizona, we were navigating to a customer and a hot air balloon went into an airspace where it was not pinging on radar. Our drone picked it up from over 1,000 feet away, identified it, and conducted a evasive maneuver to de-conflict from it. And then we file what's called a near-miss report with the FAA to identify here were our operations during this time. Our drone successfully identified it, conducted an evasive maneuver, and de-conflicted from that hot air balloon. I should just mention two other things regarding some of the conditions, the fencing, non-metallic versus wood. Some of that is to present or to reduce metallic interference for the drones and our communications with them. And then the contact, because of our drone team is based locally at the site, our flight monitors are based locally, two sets of contacts are available. One, our flight monitors. So whether it's the police department can pick up the phone, they get a direct call to a flight monitor who can cease operations, install a no-fly zone in minutes. The second is that within, whether it's an emergency, they can be contacted immediately, establish a no-fly zone. If it is a non-emergency response, that person's available, also myself is available. When we've had an incident like the one I mentioned, Richardson, Texas, I was on the phone with the city manager within an hour of the incident to communicate what was going on in our follow-up process. We issued a written response to the city regarding that issue. So myself and a colleague represent the state of Idaho, relate to our economic development efforts, and then our individuals will be based locally at the site, based locally at the paddock, and we'll be in communication with law enforcement. And then my contact information, cell phone numbers, already been provided and well established with the city staff.

So you're not the, in other markets, you're not the only commercial carry, like delivery. Who else are you competing with? Like what other examples are out there?

Sure, Commissioner. In the Dallas-Fort Worth area, in Houston, and some other markets that are in development, there are third-party providers. So they deliver someone else's goods. So like Wing or Zipline or DroneUp may deliver for like a Walmart out of a grocery store parking lot or a DoorDash provider like a Jimmy John's or Chipotle. So they're delivering someone else's asset from a location that's more commercial retail, less kind of industrial like ours. And so we see that a lot in Texas markets.

So does the drone just go to the Jimmy John's parking lot and they load it up and go?

So again, I'm speaking from the primary perspective, so this is not an official comment on other operators. Generally, they have some more temporary type solutions that roll out of a van in a parking lot, and they take off and go from there, and then they roll everything up again. or a tenant like a retail or a food establishment creates similar to like a drive-through, but it's like a deployment area on the side of the wall that then takes off. There are videos of it you can check out, but those are different than how we operate.

And my reason for asking is this could open up this market for more of this type of activity, so.

And our goal is to hopefully set a standard like we've done, Commissioner, like with our community engagement that we will continue to do is to outline how we can be best in class. You know where it's originating from, going to. Our communication will only increase, but the first piece is we want to come first, work with the city of Nampa on the land use, as then we move forward with further communication with the FAA, with other jurisdictions, law enforcement regarding our operations.

Thank you, Chairman. Yes. A question I thought about after we started this, didn't ask before. What about apartment buildings? There's no backyard to land in. I mean, you know.

Commissioner goes to eligibility. So with apartment buildings, multifamily development, or very dense development, the challenge that we find is we will not deliver in the public way. We want to deliver on private property as to not be a nuisance. And so often some multifamily developments may have like a large parking garage, But not a lot of green space where we can safely get the drone down. We really want to require an 18-foot radius to safely come down, not conflict with trees or anything, drop the package, and ascend. A lot of apartment buildings don't have that. If they do, we work with the property management firm to identify a centralized point so all customers have their drone deliveries to that. But that's case by case because if we can't safely deliver, similar to like a commercial property, they may have a big parking lot, but we don't want to deliver into a parking space where someone might run it over or cause any conflicts with cars or people walking in the parking lot. So again, not everyone is eligible for drone delivery. The goal is that as we expand, we identify more use cases where we can do that. we've seen requests from multifamily senior assisted living homes and other locations that are a little bit tighter. The goals has to be on that private property, not like on the sidewalk in the public way.

Or for a park. Someone might live right up next to a park and say, Hey, just drop it in the park. I'll be right.

That commissioner. That's a great example. A huge safety concern. Our goal, the customer's property.

Mr. Chair. Yes. So just to clarify back to the other jurisdictions and other cities that this affects. So I understand using FAA regulated airspace that kind of opens the door a little bit for use and not needing approval. But I just wanted to clarify that this does impact other cities and they don't necessarily have a say in it because it's the it's almost like a loophole that's an faa regulated airspace and therefore the other jurisdictions don't necessarily get a say in it even though it does impact them commissioner i wouldn't call it a loophole

We are following all regulatory requirements, state, local, county, and federal. The land use is reserved for the city of Napa because that's where we're operating. Federal regulatory process does allow us to navigate through approved airspace. Our communication with the jurisdiction will be that we have an intent to take off from our BOI-2 site. areas of your community that are within our service territory where we are allowed to deliver and that we intend to deliver to customers who opt into the service. If that particular city wants to say no, we would encourage them to contact the FAA regarding that specific feedback. But we will make notification. We will also include from the city of Nampa a direct contact so they can inquire with whether it be the police department, Rodney from the planning department, how this was approved, the conditions that are within that. But our goal is to be very transparent in our operations. And so that's the multi-jurisdictional notification. I'm happy to copy staff into every communication I make, making them aware of that. It will be similar in nature to each community. And then we're happy to go brief their city council, city managers, relevant parties as to what our operations will look like.

but their only recourse to go ahead and have any kind of rejection would be through the FAA. Correct.

Okay. Any other questions? I move we close public hearing. Second.

It's been moved by Kirkman, second by Garner to close the public hearing. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay. Public hearing is closed. Do you have questions for staff or just want to talk? I just have a comment that the lady who brought up in her public testimony from Star, that was something I hadn't thought about. And then you were asking the questions about other jurisdictions and things like that. But the thing that I was thinking about is we open, you know, if Nampa had, look at the village in Meridian. How many people from Nampa go over to the village in Meridian? Do we have to get Meridian's permission to visit that? No, it's just kind of the same concept with, as I started thinking about that more and more, yes, they'll make notice to other jurisdictions that this is services available, but we don't put a notice out to other jurisdictions that our Costco is open now, come and visit it, but we want them to because it benefits us. So I was just kind of making that distinction too, and I was trying to solve that because it's a valid point that was brought up and because this will affect other communities in the area, but then how much do other communities and what they have affect everything else that's going on in the Treasure Valley? So I was a little bit hesitant with this whole idea and as I was reading through the staff report, but all the questions that have been answered and all these issues that I thought were have been mitigated so far and it's coming no matter what we want to do. This type of commerce is here and it's gonna just get more and more and more and I appreciate having some controls and it very, having these things in place rather than somebody pulling up in a van in a parking lot, which that idea, you shouldn't have said out loud because that's a really good idea. But anyways, because Amazon's going to take it now. But instead of somebody pulling up into the parking lot at a grocery store and doing their own flying stuff here and there and whatever, at least it's controlled and it's well thought out and it's tested and so on and so on. But anyways. So I moved more to, yes, I'm for this.

Chair, can I ask? I'd like the attorney to help educate me. That's all right. You want to just go? That's a tall order. You guys are very sharp. Very hard to educate. Yes, I know.

Yeah, just to reiterate Rodney Ashby, Planning and Zoning Director's point, this is a conditional use permit. It is a quasi-judicial decision, and so you are authorized to put on conditions you feel are prudent, necessary to comply with the code. That's our city code plus the comprehensive plan, and that kind of carries over from a discussion earlier, some of the elements in there about general health, safety, welfare. This is an interesting area. I think the applicant has done a commendable job at talking about the FAA piece to it. There's kind of some magic terminology in there, the FAA preemption, that we just cannot touch as a city. FAA preempts that area. That is on flight paths, aerial highways, and we can't have a total outright ban on this. I don't think we're gonna address, we cannot address any of that, just make that clear. Areas that you can regulate within FAA guidance, they do have an FAQ page about stuff like this for cities. And just as a reminder, as you're deliberating and coming to your decision, I think this is what you're getting at, Commissioner Morgan, you can regulate the takeoff and landing locations. Altitudes, you can have regulated what interference it may have with the property owner's actual use and enjoyment of the property. The land use or zoning, there was a comment made about operation hours. That would be considered a land use, right? That's a regulation that you could regulate under a CUP. You could consider any harassment of individuals or groups, if any, privacy, voyeurism, trespass on property. I think that's been spoken to here. Reckless endangerment, emergency medical services, search and rescue, taking photographs or videos with respect to particular facilities. I think that's been addressed here. Protection of wildlife. Again, I think that's been addressed. So those are options within your purview that you can consider as conditions on this permit if it were granted tonight. But there is some off limit areas, no fly zones if you will, forgive the pun, but it is late. But there is the FAA preemption areas that we cannot touch that I addressed earlier.

Can I keep following up?

Question. All right.

Some of it will be curiosity, but I think a lot of it's going to be relevant for tonight. Where does, at what height does FAA airspace begin?

Commissioner, if I may, we do have our airport, Lindsey Johnson here with the airport. She may be better suited to address that question. I don't know that answer, frankly.

Daniel's sitting over there going, no questions for me.

There we go. Lindsay John Smith airport. Um, airspace begins right above the ground. So if above the blade of grass is the FAA airspace above the tree tops above your roof, it's her begins.

So 13, 13 feet is still airspace. And that's why he's saying they're under FAA regulation. everywhere except for where they land and pick up the next delivery.

That's correct.

Okay.

And so, okay. Any other questions that might preempt all preempt for the, um, all of my questions, but now that's flight paths, um, aerial highways.

Um, what else I have here? Aerospace efficiency, that's preempted. But although that long list, the laundry list I read off, that's within that land use realm, if you will.

So a few years ago, there was a big deal about, I think it was the Air Force bringing in the new fighters and all the noise that would bring into the neighborhoods around the airport. Right now. Is it happening again? Yeah. It's constant. Yeah. does this is it the same thing where the city can the city say no those fighters are too loud they can't play over our city or i'm sure there's even more than just federal law there there's military stuff but chairman if i may

Again, there may be some areas in there that I cannot address. What I can say is one of our conditional use permit criteria, and staff, feel free to weigh in on this, it's the fourth criteria. It talks about excessive noise, odor, and a few other factors. I think we have it pulled up here. Thank you, Rodney. And so that is a condition within your purview and authority, this is a recommending body, right? That you need a way, okay, as you read this, is this detrimental by reason of excessive, I think excessive, every word here is crucial. Yeah, so that's a judgment call again that you would be able to make in this case. And we have a record here that I think that's been addressed and spoken to with decibel levels and given you enough substantial evidence to make a decision.

So hypothetically, if we thought maybe the noise won't be so bad, but it turns out it is, have any recourse?

I'll defer to Rodney. Yeah, exactly. It's a CUP. So I would just need some direction from the commission, from at least two residents to make a complaint about it. Even I could go out and assess that and determine whether that's a valid concern, and then I can revoke that. If I find it valid, the concerns are valid, I can revoke the conditional use permit, and then they have to come back to you to reinstate that to you.

Do we need to condition that or is it kind of assumed because of this? Because it's in the code. It's in code, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I think maybe I'm not the only one struggling with just the novel thing in our neighborhoods, right? I'm thinking about how many times the Amazon truck drives past our house in our neighborhood And is it going to be that frequent?

Well, just imagine that any number of drones that fly and drop something in the backyard, that's one less trip on a truck on a road that's causing traffic. So, I mean, there's upsides to it as well. Right.

Well, wait a second. Not necessarily. I mean, when you...

I mean, obviously they're not going to have as many as the trucks, right?

I was going to say, you take one package out of a van and put it on a drone, that van is still going to 100 different places.

But it might not be coming down my street.

But it's going to 99 places now instead of 100.

Exactly. I mean, at this point, but who knows how much the volume is going to increase over time.

Yeah. I mean, I get where you're going, but that seems a little... Huh?

Is that a good thing? I mean... If it, yeah, if it helps traffic. Yeah.

I mean, I think all that we can do is take what we've been presented as. I don't think that he's lying to us. No. Right. If they've only had, you know, two bad incidents and they've been doing 26,000 deliveries over six months. I mean, that's, that's pretty significant. And, if it is only as loud as a vacuum cleaner, that's not going to bother me. I play my stereo louder than that. So I probably won't even hear him, but I'm sure that there are people out there that are going to be disturbed by it because they didn't want to hear it. They were reading their book and they were drinking their coffee and they didn't want to hear that.

So, well, I think there's a difference between having your neighbor run a vacuum and then not having a vacuum 13 feet in the air.

Well, for 20 seconds, well, it descends and then goes back away. Yeah. and then they're 400 feet in the air, and I'm probably not even going to see them. So I just think that they're, yeah, I get what you're saying. I think that there are some concerns, but for me, just in what I've heard, most of my fears have been elated. I don't have a problem with it, and I lean towards approving, recommending approval.

And my thought about that is if you listen to, I don't know, every single item, well, not every single, but the majority of the items that we've listened to in the last, I don't know, five, six, seven, eight years, what's the biggest complaint that the city, that the city is not thinking about, we're not planning ahead well enough is traffic. So if this can help even slightly alleviate traffic, that's a plus.

But that was my, that's why that was my comment based on is that people, there could be some that use that as a justification to move forward with this. I don't see that as a justification because it's not that big of an impact. Well, but every little, every little thing, those vans are still going to be going with a hundred, 26,000 packages.

That's a lot.

I think the vans will still be on the road. What I think it might get reduced is those, same day delivery like that are just in their private vehicles and are just driving.

And that could be, we get a lot of those. Cause those are the smaller, right? More quick, faster delivery.

Same day delivery stuff.

I just, my, my, my only concern that I can think of right now that hasn't been alleviated, it's just the, the, how many drones at what point are we going to be seeing? Yes, I know they're going to be 200, 300, 400 feet in the air, but as they start landing, I mean, are all my neighbors going to have drones just start dropping stuff in there? I mean, that's the image that I'm... That's the image, yeah. Well, but then... Will we envision? I think Amazon would love to see that.

But then by that token, if there is that significant of increase in packages being delivered that way, then it can only naturally reduce traffic.

but it just moves. It takes Daniel out of the job because he can't talk about traffic. No, it allows Daniel to catch up and now it lands on the airport. They have to talk about the air traffic.

So yeah, we just, and we can go round and round on this. I, I, I'm, how many did I hear him say? How many drones were they starting with? 13, 12, 13, 12 to 15, 12 to 15. I heard. I mean, as a starting point, that's not bad.

I don't have a problem with that at all.

Right? Yeah.

Well, again, guys, it's just like we said before. This is a CUP. If somebody in the city doesn't like it, and Rodney can substantiate complaints because, in fact, it's 200 decibels, not 63 like was advertised to us, then that CUP can be pulled.

There's always a mechanism, yeah. And you talk about traffic. Right now, in my neighborhood, every time the UPS van, the FedEx van, Amazon van comes down the street, they drive down to the center of the street because the trees hang so low, they flip the trees off. So when they park to deliver their package, they park in the center of the street. So I'd be glad to have the street open again with drones so I can drive down there and not worry about the other traffic. Chuck drivers. Sounds like you need to be writing your HOA. No.

Just like that, if you're mentally, if you're still deliberating on our conditions of approval, it says anything that will be detrimental, person's property, general welfare, et cetera. and you just go to detrimental and anything detrimental hurts, hinders or puts damper on something. So that helps give you clarification as to what our conditions are and what that brings to light.

And the question is, is the eerie feeling of having a drone over your neighbor's yard detrimental or is it just like, something new, you know.

Or is it cool looking?

What's that?

Or is it cool looking?

Well, it is to different people, right?

Right, you don't know who thinks that what, right?

Because it says excessive, right? Excessive noise, not just a little bit of noise, too.

If that was the case, everyone would have an electric lawnmower. Well, Mr. Chair, I'm ready to make a motion if there's no other comments or questions. I'm okay with that. All right. So I move to approve the project as stated on the screen. Second.

It's been moved by Kirkman, seconded by Kehoe. Can we have a roll call, please?

Copeland. Yay. Aye. No. Okay. Yes. I said A. Feene.

No.

Kirkman.

Yes.

Garner.

Yes.

Kehoe. Aye. Miller.

Yes.

Morgan.

I wasn't ready yet. I'll say yes.

Okay, five in favor, motion carries.

So those two that voted against it, no package delivered to their house.

Mr. Chair, I just want to clarify something. I thought I heard six yeses and one no. Were you a yes?

I was a yes. Okay. Oh, I thought you said nay. No, I messed up. I said ay, and then I said yay. Yay, okay, you are a yes. I'm sorry.

She was like the bombs, and then she said.

I get up at three o'clock in the morning, so this is late for me.

Okay, this CUP will become effective 15 calendar days from the date the written decision and reason statement is provided to the applicant, unless an appeal has been filed with the Planning and Zoning Department. with the appropriate fee. No action should be taken on this CUP until the appeal period has concluded. The applicant must confirm with the planning and zoning staff that there have been no appeals. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I move to adjourn the meeting.

Second.

It has been moved by Copeland, second by Garner to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Meeting adjourned.