Planning Board - Regular Meeting

That's the sound. There it is. That's That's what we're waiting for. Good. Good morning, everybody. This is the Nags Head Planning Board meeting for Tuesday, November 18th. Welcome everyone. First order of business will be to approve our agenda for the day. Can I make a motion, please? We have a motion. Second. All in favor? I I. Great. Moving on. Public comment. Audience response. I don't see anyone here that wants to speak to us. So, we'll move on to approval of our minutes from October 21st. Did everyone have a chance to review them? No changes or Yes. Okay. Everybody's good with the minutes.

Move that we approve the minutes. I have a motion to approve the minutes and a second. All in favor? I. Great. Moving on to item E. board member transitions and upcoming appointments and Miss Wyatt is up. Hey there.

Um,

but first I just want to take a moment and um staff just wanted to recognize our two planning board members um that were recently elected to the board of commissioners. Megan Vaughn and Molly Harrison. Um, today is going to be their last day sitting on the planning board. Um, yes. So, we're going to miss you uh more than you know at this level. Um, but it's not goodbye because we'll all get to see you again um at the board of commissioners meeting in December. But you both have put in a lot of time, effort, and energy. You've been part of some complex conversations multif family zonings, etc. Uh, we couldn't have done it without you. You've helped navigate staff, navigate the board, um, articulate these things to the community. So, it's been appreciated tremendously. Thank you.

Thank you. Um, if anybody else wants to say anything, feel free. I I feel that I' I've raised you two both so very well. Okay, that's it. You're done. I'm glad to see I'm glad to see you move on and up. Um I hope I hope that we can pass each other at the at the grocery store and and and talk kindly and freely. Absolutely. Thank you. Of course. Thursday nights.

Okay. All right. So, next up is Well, I guess I should note we didn't have any action items this month. We didn't have anything precipitated by staff or anything from citizens. So, um, it's more of an informational meeting and I did want to I don't know how many people are aware of the process moving forward. So, I put together a little timeline that I wanted to walk through. Um, there are some moving parts to this, so I wanted to make sure everyone was clear um and knew what to expect moving forward. So, as we said, um, both Megan Vaughn and Molly Harrison were elected to the BOC. Today is their final meeting um with the planning board. At the board of commissioners December 3rd meeting, they will be sworn in. They'll take their seat and they'll begin their service as a commissioner. At that same December 3rd meeting, um the board of commissioners will appoint two new members to fill the two vacant spots left by Megan and Molly. Um the town clerk keeps a running list of interested citizens. Uh people can submit uh their desire to be appointed to a board online. Um or you can just call the clerk and and go about it that way. So the board of commissioners will select two individuals from that list um to serve on the planning board. So that means at your December 16th planning board meeting, you'll have two new members that we'll be welcoming. Um because Megan Vaughn won't be here to serve as chair, the current vice chair, Mew Gwen, is going to be running the meeting um for December 16th. So he'll

he'll take that on in his role as vice chair. And Then, as we do every year when the January 2026 meeting rolls around, the first order of business is going to be to elect the uh planning board chair and the planning board vice chair. That is something that you do internally among yourselves. That's not a board appointment. You um as the planning board make those decisions. Um and This is pretty much it. Um, happy to answer any questions that anyone has at this point. Yes,

Kelly, I know that that list of interested citizens is got a bunch of names on it. Some of them been on there for a few years, maybe. Would it behoove the town to put something out via their notifications or newsletters that we now have two coming up to positions to see if there's any additional interest? So I believe the understanding among the town manager and others is that there are a number of people who are already on that list. They've been contacted and ask if they're still interested in serving.

Um so I don't know the exact number but there's ample. So I don't believe there I don't believe we will be putting that back out soliciting more names. Okay. Um there's plenty of names on the list already. Uh plenty of qualified people and um so I think they're they're comfortable moving forward with with what's there. All right. Thanks. Sure.

Anybody else questions? I I guess is one of those uh point of there's going to be more than a there's actually there'll be a a majority of people that will be at that January meeting that will have not sat through the process and I'm wondering if when the agenda goes out if we if there couldn't be you know some notes given to them on kind because it it's it's not the lord of the flies but you know it's just different from every other right

I use that reference a lot when I'm talking about this this group but you know in reverence but it it is it is very atypical as compared to the rest of the meetings we have because you more or less preside over us until we have process laid out. Yes. So the plan at this point would be um once the board of commissioners appoint those two new members, we will meet with them either together or separately and kind of do a planning board 101 um with them so that when they come sit on December 16th, they at least have an idea of procedure, process,

what their role is um and then we'll also outline how it will typically run at that January meeting. You're right. I usually open it up um and it moves forward with staff running the meeting until there's an appointment and then it's handed off. I had forgotten that little one-on-one orientation. I did that with Megan and you, Kelly, and that was very helpful.

We were also thinking we want to look into it. I think the school of government might have some webinars, like things you can do virtually for new members. Um, and we will have several new members on the planning board. So, in addition to maybe trying to get Lauren WBLE back to do another update, maybe there's some school of government information that we can provide as well. just just even like some definitions, you know, because I the I there wasn't I didn't get a 101 when I got jumped on. Um I kind of Mark just kind of gave me he he pulled me aside box my ears a little bit. Um but just kind of even you know how what some of the things mean and process pieces you know what does need to be a second what needs to be moved

and terminology is always the thing that I struggled the most when I first sat like how do I recognize something that me if I want to make a motion how do I encompass the terminology and or exceptions that I want to be made or additions amendments to anything that's always clunky. Um, or even if something if there's another motion being made and seconded while we're kind of in discussion, how to appropriately outline those things and and or inquire about perhaps amending or adding to a a sitting or a an item that is up for discussion or vote.

Sure, we could do some basics and then let it an attorney dive into it. We can at least give basics. Yeah. Well, and then yeah, you know, conflicts of interest and, you know, voting on things that help your pocket kind of stuff. One of the things that I've found particularly difficult in the beginning were the um abbreviations. I wasn't sure what certain things stood for to have one place where somebody can go to and say, well, what does LU mean? or what does you know things around flooding mean and base elevations things like that. Oh yeah.

So going to place a glossery and things for abbreviations found very helpful. Very very helpful. That's good to know. And then we try to but we'll we'll make an extra effort as staff to lay off the abbreviations or at least provide the full listing and then the abbreviation parenthesis until everybody has a better understanding of what's abbreviations are everywhere. Major corporations are themselves acronyms of what they really are

and everything they talk about are acronyms. Uh if whoever is appointed has been on other boards and things like that, it's probably a little quicker getting up to speed with how we operate here. However, if they've not been on a board of any kind before, it it takes 12 to 18 months before you really feel comfortable and even somewhat up to speed in what's going on because I mean there's a lot of history

to our town and there's a lot of history to how we got from there to here and the 101 is a great idea, but it's part of it is just experience and listening and learning and

and there's and there's really two, you know, the the whole thing of Robert's rules and how the meeting goes or is supposed to go and all that. Of course, staff is always helpful. Lily is available, you know, but it's easy enough to for anybody to kind of, you know, get caught up to speed on Robert's rules. You can go right online and they got varying degrees of um information. You know, you can do a deep dive like if you're trying to run meetings or if you just want to be a refresher on how it goes. But also, I remember, and I'm not trying to create work for y'all, but when I first came on, and maybe, you know, Holly was still here, and Holly continually offered for you to have a private, you know, I say private, a session with her to talk about um the comp plan.

Yeah.

And the UDI, all that stuff. And it was that was really helpful to me because that was just she literally sat there with them. And you know, I'm not trying to create work like I said, but um and you could, you know, we're in a situation to ask questions because she kind of took you through it. It it took about an hour, so it wasn't, but you know, especially with a mostly with a, you know, I think it's a great opportunity because there's a lot of people who are fairly new and so everybody, you know, or quite a few, especially when we add the two new. So there'll be um it'll be a good chance for people to kind of be on the same wavelength for a while. And then Some of you have been around obviously. Um, so, but I I don't know if that's something you would Do you remember when Hollywood do was doing that?

And I'm wondering if that's something we do with these one-on- ons or if that's actually just something that we kind of set aside 30 minutes to roll through with the new exact at a meeting because I don't think it would hurt anybody who's been here to say, you know, just the basics of this is the UDO, this is the comp plan, this is, you know, that sort of thing. And then people would h could come back with questions if they have them after the meeting. That's a great idea. We plan to do that. Maybe a refresh of course for some of the elderly people on a refresher is never a bad thing.

Is that a reference to my name or my or my station? Lack them. That sounds great. No, these are great ideas. Um, and I appreciate everybody sharing what would help what helped them the most or what they struggled with the most. And we'll try to I'm not apprehensive, but I'm but I'm just aware that there's going to be four people with less than a year experience here soon. So, yeah, our leadership's going to have to really keep us in line.

And staff will, like I said, staff will be more cognizant. We'll try to make sure our staff reports are tight, a lot of history behind it, no abbreviations, everything kind of spelled out. Um, so we'll we'll do the best we can as well. I'll say and I think Molly said the last meeting, the staff reports have always since I've been here laid out well and easy to follow and it's appreciated. So that helps a lot. And they're always available if you start looking at it on Yeah. Friday, right? And have questions.

Exactly. So don't hesitate to ask questions, you know, and sometimes the, you know, send your questions to staff through your town email and to everybody so that because other people might be having the same question you are and they're just not asking it, you know, so it never hurts. Absolutely. Okay. Anybody else questions or comments on transition and upcoming appointments? Okay. And we're just going to skip past action item. There are no action items. Kelly's going to stay up there, I assume, and report on board of commissioners actions from November 5th.

Yes, please. So, um would highlight that at their November 5th meeting, they did hear all the nominations um from each department within the town for the Earl Murray Junior Employee of the Year. And the nominees were Karen Snyder um from the IT department, um Connor Twitty, our environmental planner from planning, um crew leader Rich Miles from facilities maintenance, Mike Tatter from the police department, and Trey Simmons from fire. Those were the departmental employees of the year. And um they were all presented to the board. They into closed session. Um when they came out of close session, they um recognized the Earl Murray Jr. employee of the year, which they selected Connor Twitty from the planning department. So, wanted to highlight that if you see Connor. Um just say congratulations. Um, as far as planning items go on consent agenda, we had requests for public hearing to discuss those amendments to the flood damage prevention ordinance. Um, those will go before the board at their December meeting. Um, and also the vested rights special use request for the parking lot expansion at Knack Head Church. So, those two things are lined up for the board of commissioners in December. Um, we had a public hearing uh for those sections of the UDO that were related to the town's crowd gathering permit process and the board voted unanimously to approve those. Um,

we gave our planning report for the month and then the board also heard the site plan amendment for TWW's Bait and Tackle. We talked about that. If you remember, that's the um um the storage addition in between the retail and storage that currently exist on site. Uh the board recommended approval of that as well as the additions at the Outer Banks Sports Club. Um and then deputy director Joe Costello updated the board of commissioners on the progress with the Harvey Soundsite event site living shoreline. Um, so that is also in the director's report. Um, if you have any questions or y'all would like an update on that as well, um, we can certainly have Joe do that. Very um, engaged with the estrn shoreline management plan right now. So um, but that's all I have for board of commissioners action. Kelly, just out of curiosity, that public hearing on that public hearing on the crowd gathering permit process, was there any comment or push back on that the public?

No, there was no comment or uh push back. The board acknowledged that the sooner we can have um the visitors bureau involved and looped them in on the proposed changes, the better. And I think town manager Garmin has a meeting with them if not today, tomorrow, sometime very soon to go over everything with them. Okay. Thank you. Sure. I'm going to break protocol. Paris, my boss. Sorry. At that meeting that our town manager recognized, Miss White for 20 years. She left that report. We were just talking about how great your reports were.

This is this is like some kind of crazy mutual admiration society. Don't worry, it won't last. And and as as a former planning board something or other, Andy is present, so we should, you know, planning department. Yes. I'm sorry. Planning department. Yeah. It's it's it's all all things planning. Since you brought that up, Andy did a wonderful job um Yeah, he did recognizing Kelly for her 20 years. It was it was great. That's important. Mhm. Once I started crying, I just couldn't stop. It's I I It went downhill.

I I have to say um being working for a town down here um and and then seeing how this town does that, that's really really nice.

And it's one of these things where so often what you do and what's done here, while there is remuneration at some level, you know, we all get paid in some level. Recognition is the highest reward because this is a calling. You know, we're all making ourselves targets by doing what we do depending on what target we're standing in front of or what target we imitate. And I feel it's very important to be recognized by the people and by the board choosing to do that through whoever. Um it makes it important to the population to recognize how transparency is very important and I'm it makes me quite happy. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, the town does a great job with recognitions and acknowledging everybody's achievements. So, yeah, I appreciate that as well.

And definitely at that meeting, um the commissioners meeting in the room, you could just feel like all the employees felt like they it just felt very tight-knit and we are. So, it's really wonderful. Yeah, it's great. Thank you all. Okay, so moving on to town updates. Yes. Anybody request any town updates? Okay. So now your director's report, I know you referred to the estuary and shoreline management. Anything else that wasn't on BOC report that we need to know about? Not a whole lot. Um, as always, you're very familiar with what you've done, so we don't need to go through that.

Hopefully. um the septic health advisory committee. They had an October meeting. We updated on what the intern um had helped us with while she was here. Yesterday was actually her last day. Um but she attended the septic health advisory committee meeting. Uh we talked about some social media that she had been working on. And then she also produced a really wonderful I guess it's called a a real. It's like a short uh 30 second Wow. You just you just put yourself in UNK status. Yeah. I mean I I scroll and it pops up. I don't know.

Um but she did a reel of Connor kind of from start to finish what it looks like and um that was pretty cool. I don't know that anybody on our current staff had the ability to use that type of technology to produce that. So it was great having an 18 19 year old in here who did that for us. Not having to maintain fluency is a wonderful thing as well. So yeah. So is there anywhere anybody else can see that? I think so. It's on Facebook and Instagram. I don't know if it's on our YouTube page or not. We'll have to figure it out. But um but yeah, it was it was really cool. I'll make sure you guys Yeah,

I saw it. It was cool. Connor walking down the hall with the sunglasses on. Then they then they do the fast step out to the car. Do we have some Do we have some music? I don't think there's any music to it. Yeah. So, the intern actually had some really cool music um with it, right? But then it was copyright as soon as we tried to post it. I think red flag. So, yeah. We don't want to be breaking any laws. Yeah. It's that's that's a whole other thing that we don't know anything about. Well, you know, but also you're making a choice when you when you put music. It's true. Yeah, it was really good music. I just wish it been longer. You know, 30 seconds wasn't enough. I wanted to see some more results and talking.

I will say that uh her edits or PIO recognized her for her good editing and not leaving too much of the sludge judge when he held that up. Yeah. Thank you for not too much. I like that stuff. Catologically, correct? The sludge judge. That's why it's called things are just better left out. I guess sludge just kind of says it. I didn't Is that a word? It is. That's what it is. It could be worse. That's right. Happy to find new members of the planning board as well. We will create a definition. and use a call it the SJ SJ new

I'll leave Shoreline to Joe. Um but sand relocation that is just kicking up now. You'll start to see some equipment on the beach. You'll see our staff out there talking with contractors. Um it's been going on for several years. I think we have some great contractors who understand the rules and the limitations. But as always, if you guys see something out there that looks like it's outside the boundary, just let us know and and we'll go lay eyes on it. Um and then lastly, I guess one thing that I would highlight is as far as our Dowy Park um farmers market, art and culture. Well, actually a couple things. So yesterday there was a grand opening of the flag at Dowy Park. It's a free little art gallery.

Oh yeah. So I hope uh you should be seeing that. I think the town putting something out. There was a press release from the Dair County Women's Club about it, but um it's like the free little libraries except there's little tiny pieces of art in it and you can create art and leave it for someone else. Um yeah, you can make your own art or you can take art. It goes both ways. So, it was really that was really cool. I think it's the only one in this area. So, and the like six by six or six by eight is the size limit on Yes. Yeah. It's really Was that a woman's club idea? It was. Okay, that's cool.

Yep. Um, they reached out. They asked if they could put it there. Our art and culture committee was incredibly supportive. They're going to primarily be the people overseeing it. Um, and then Paige and staff will be in the background if needed. Who Whose idea was it? um the Outer Banks Women's Club. Okay. Yes. Cool. Um and then our next holiday market is going to be the Saturday after Thanksgiving, which is the 29th. And that's going to be from 9:00 a.m. to noon. That'll be huge. The last one was huge. I think if the weather's good, it'll be huge. I hope so. The last one was hu. In other words, the first holiday market was huge.

It was. And then that evening, we have our tree lighting ceremony which we always kind of talk about and it's not just a tree it's basically the lighting of all of Dowy Park. Um and so that's that's really wonderful and I want to thank the town manager since he's in here. We were able to find some money to have some new electrical run um over where the um the turtle and the sand with the eggs and the wavy wall. We had some electrical extended over there. So now we can lights over there. Um, so that's going to light up a whole new piece of the park that's previously not been lit up um for the tree lighting. But this year we have a couple special things. Um, Santa is coming. He's going to be brought in by the fire department.

But then we've also heard that there we're getting an elf as well. So, and this elf will not be confined to a shelf. Correct. No free flowing all over the park. fun. Um, so that's exciting. And we have um some music students from Mano High School, I believe, who will be there um with some instruments and also singing, helping with the sing along. Cool. So, yeah, it'll be that'll be nice. Some added me asking for the time. So, it starts at 5. Okay.

Um I believe Santa should be arriving around 6:15. Um, Santa will be leaving at around seven. Um, but we'll be there for as long as people are there. Um, handing out cookies, hot chocolate, apple cider. Um, and then we're also having 200 ornaments made. Um, so the first 200 people who come to the tree lighting and request them will get this little commemorative um, Town of Knacks Head Happy Holidays ornament. So, Well, that'll be on social media as well. So, that's great. Great idea. Yeah. Wonderful. You're still going to have the marsh scene out here at town hall. That's my favorite.

We will that. Yeah. No, it's wonderful. And the forget what they're called, but the it looks like grass, like cattails. Yeah, those are those are the best. Yeah. So, we'll have that. So, that's um wanted to make sure everybody knew about that. So, please come out. And that's all I have. Um I can hand it off to Joe if you want to talk about.

Thank you, Kelly. Thank you. Thanks. Hello. Good morning. I guess I don't need this, but um

just a quick update on the ESR line management plan. Uh start with the Harvey site. We've been moving right along um with the planning. Um received schematic designs. We are now um we have approval from the tourism board with that design. We had public engagement um incorporated the public and stakeholder feedback into the design. We have a um pre-application meeting later this week and then we'll look to submit our permit application package. We're supposed to be under contract with um our contractor for construction by the end of June and hopefully that living shoreline will be constructed um in the fall of next year. We also have Secretary Reed Wilson coming from um Department of Environmental Quality to kind of highlight the project and come down. I believe that's sometime next week,

Monday.

Monday. So um so that project's um moving right along um with sites one and two which is the dunes drive site and then the west southside road site um we are still basically reworking regrouping coordinating with the granting agency and our consultants to come up with something that's um has a modified scope and schedule that's actually implementable um based on the community feedback we had and then sort of the realities of the of SAV and um the difficulty in getting permits to do live shoreline um where it conflicts with the location of subaquatic vegetation SAP subaquatic vegetation.

That's really all I have. I'm happy to answer any questions. Yeah. What type of apparatus did they decide to go with to block the wave energy

at the Harvey site? They'll be rock sills. Um, I think the idea was that or one of the big deciding factors in at least listening to the tourism board was some of the sort of like artificial reefs and stuff. There was some concern that their sort of proprietary materials and companies and they weren't sure if they'd be able to replace and maintain it in the long run and so felt more comfortable going with something they know they could locally source and um, repair. Are those rocks contained like in any way or are they just loose in a stack?

No, they um have like a geoexile um sort of holder and then you know have like a base structure to to sort of contain it. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Anybody else questions?

I I have a question about sand movement on the beach. Um, and this kind of extends further into reourishment. Is there ever a situation where the um, when the surveys are done pre- reenourishment and then kind of looking backward, is there a lessons learned category, this is what happened last time and, you know, maybe establishing correlation correlation and causation between slightly more successful areas and less successful areas. um propagation and use of sand fence maybe in trapping sand in front of the the the toe of the dune creating perhaps a baby dune in some areas. It's a you've got 10 miles of beach there. Um not all of it has been reourished and yet it it all looks the same after some time. But I'm wondering if longer term the engineering group and the survey group might have any thoughts or ideas as well whether there is any rhetorical um possibility. The this is this time of year is is is really kind of endemic to the propagation and erosion of the beach cycle and you get establishment of of of different cycles and I was kind of wondering is that is that ever part of it?

I'm sorry David I'm not really equipped to respond to that. Okay. Yeah. It's it's a lot. It's it's a lot, but you know, it's one of those things where it's it's the biggest thing we are responsible for is protecting our visitors and, you know, and having a place for them to it creates our economy. Um, so it's just kind of it's very often kind of underappreciated, but you know, when when it comes to moving sand around um and kind of dealing with this the drifted sand, I kind of wondered if that is something that that there's been things that make more sense and less sense.

I don't really have a good answer for you. It's kind of outside of my expertise, but potentially, you know, Andy or I would think David Ryan would be able to respond to that. Yeah, that was a big ask. Sorry.

What differences are there? Um it's it you know I guess in we have a very unique situation in that we are in a highly erosive shoreline area yet at the same time we have a facility at the FRF and Duck where they've got 30 plus years of data of surveys of the beach and those regular surveys have a lot of depth to them but when you lay them out over time you can see things cycles. Um, all of us know that when the beach looks good, we also know that there's a as a as an example after the the scarring that we had during the recent storms, you get that really the storm beach, but as an example, um, the drifted sand that comes with the heavy wind load is a thing. Then the red sand that deposits, that's newly accreted sand. And a lot of people don't really understand the difference and nuancing of that. And just kind of understanding how the how the beach breathes and moves and it creates and depletes along with the engineering and the the extra things that we're doing can help grow the beach and make the dunes more stable. Most most specifically,

sand fence works really well. and and sand fence does work really well, but it's one of those things where, you know, we got to kind of support the structure and longevity. So, yeah, dune fence and sea oats as well, vegetation more. So, do you have some information from it for us? Yeah, please. Once um but um please

I probably won't get into too much detail. Um we are we are having a workshop with the board of commissioners um in December on December 17th. And you know we all know we had a rough fall. You know we had a lot of storms. We normally do a summer survey but we decided to go ahead and do another survey post all these storms to try to get a better sense of where we're at because the board is going to be making a decision on the next beach nourishment project. In order for them to make the best decision, we needed to have most current information we could. And so, uh, we're going to present that information at the workshop in December. Um, the engineering consultant will be there. They'll be able to talk about this newest survey compared to the most or to the summer survey. Um, and we'll also have a financial consultant there to talk about how to pay for the next project. And, um, I expect to be a lot of information. and I think they'll address a lot of the things that that you're discussing. One of the things that we did put the project out to bid and we do have the bids back now and we did receive three responsive bids and overall that process it went pretty well.

Um and so um the board will make a final decision on all of that. One of the things we included in in the bid package is uh to add alternates for additional sand. So we have a base bid for a certain amount of Ed, then you know we can accept alternates up to 100 increments of 100,000 cubic yards of sand a piece and that that is flexible. So the board can sort of decide where to place that and whether or not they want to accept it. You know, it's an additional million dollars per alternate. Um but I think based on this beach survey they get that'll help them help them decide where to place the material. And so whether or not they decide to uh build a starter dune in in South Nags Head where we've seen the most scarping, you know, that'll be discussed by the board. And so it would be an interesting discussion meeting to attend to hear if you're really interested in the ins and that ins and outs of that. You know, I would encourage people to attend that. It'll start at 9:00 am on the 17th, which is the midmon meeting, which is a Wednesday. And um fortunately Megan and Molly to cut cut their teeth on a big decision. But yeah, I mean the the idea for that workshop is to present information and then the board will probably vote on some things in January at the regular meeting. So, but yeah, I don't know if that helps at all.

It certainly does. We'll see you on the 17th, right? Yeah. Yeah. I certainly I will be glad to be there. I you know, great. But we do know the county is trying to do a project in the spring as well. Um the other towns I think are more looking more towards 27 or maybe even 28. I'm not quite sure yet, but the county has greater sense of urgency for the Buckton area especially.

And so, you know, I'm sure the the folks that are have bid on our project are paying close attention to all of that and that the timing of all these projects together will affect the the price. One of the things we heard from who the apparent low bidder um for our project is that they're they're completing a project in Oak Island over the over this winter. So, they just may move right up here if you know, right? Um why can't Oak Island do theirs in the winter? We have to do ours in the summer. The the the cl the conditions of the the ocean, they're south facing. South facing much calmer conditions. here. It's just almost it would it would probably double our pricing for a project. Yikes.

Because, you know, we're told that every time they have to demobilize because of surf, you know, they have to go to Norphick and But I've heard numbers like a million dollars every time they have to Oh my gosh. And locally in Kittyhawk, they had a portion of their reourishment in the last cycle that the vendor had to come back and and re at tribute sand to the beach after it had been nearly completed but had not been checked off. And um so it can be we get very lucky. The good news is we're always lucky and it's beautiful here. The bad news is sometimes the beaches aren't as large as we like and it's trying to balance that.

It's obviously disruptive to do it in the summer and I don't think anybody likes the idea of having to do it in the summer but the cost is is substantial. It definitely makes sense. And I think when the county did one of the first projects down towards Buckton, they they got pushed too far into the fall, you know, and and they they ended up having to pull off and it cost a lot of money. Yeah. So yeah, I had friends who had rented a cottage uh when we were doing uh reourishment one time and they commented that when they got here it was literally right in front of the cottage and they were like, "Oh, this is unbelievable. Are we going to have this all week?"

Two days later it's like, "I can't believe how fast they move. They've already gone down." So for anyone who has read it for the week, they don't have to deal with it for the week. It's not right. Well, but they all I mean having been through it several times with you know they all worry about it starting now. Sure. And it's going to be right in front of them their whole week and all those things. So that's not you know it's not insurmountable. But for honestly for every person who is upset, concerned they come they and it's ruining their life, their vacation, there's two or three that really enjoy it. you know, they I'll take the process. Yeah. They're wa they like watching the process. They really do. So, I mean, it's not

it's just one of those things, you know, and I think it's a lot about how we, you know, present it and that, you know, and that's what we've learned over the years, too, is you just have to say to people, look, this is a great opportunity. It's probably not going to affect you at all. I mean the odds are thus and such you know and it doesn't affect people and it doesn't affect them for long even if it you know so and like I said it's been amazing how many people really enjoy it you know I was like well we'll keep you posted we'll let you know if you want to maybe get a last minute rental near the near the work and that day that they're there is a great day to go visit our local merchants and restaurants or have the kids watch the operator doing the beach and all

that would built in babysitter. That would be for the town. If the town got a video of big earth moving equipment on the beach and tugs and that little reel for kids to watch over and over again might be the most viewed video the town ever. Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah, everybody likes the time lapse. How does the uh the cost break down to us, to the state, to the federal as far as percentages for a project like this? Well, we're working on that now. That's that's kind of specifically one of the things. Ask an easy one.

That's kind of specifically one of the things I find most interesting is that it has to be it has to get the under the good graces of the Army Corps and the Army Corps is quite present to us local at the pier. Um, but there's also, you know, is there any stretching in what they're willing to do or is the standard a real baseline? And if you go above that standard, do the does the core learn anything from what has gone on out here? Just is there any dynamism in that at all? I'm really kind of interested. Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure where the core learns, you know, I mean, they they issue the permit, you know, but our our engineers have the best sense of, you know, umvious what we're learning. I mean obviously the longer we do this the better we get.

You know like you said before the the core the field research facility has 30 plus years of data. You know we started doing this in 2011. I'm sure we started doing surveys before that. So the longer we have that information the better. I mean they're they're calculating the volumes based on erosion rates. And you know the long the more historical data you have the better you get at calculating erosion rates and then volumes. So I mean the idea is that you're providing the same level of protection throughout the town. So that means greater volumes in other areas in certain areas than others because the erosion rates are higher you know and obviously the the largest volumes are places at the very southern end of town. So, but um that answer your question. I mean, the breakdown of cost. So, you know, we have um several different taxes we we impose as a town. We have a townwide tax, you know, that every resident or every property owner in the town pays to that goes towards beach nourishment. It's about two pennies of the tax rate. And then we have municipal service districts that cover um the oceanfront properties within the project area. That when I say oceanfront, I mean east of the beach road and of SR 1243,

right?

And then we also have a separate MSD which extends from US 158 to the oceanfront and also all of South Nags Head and they're taxed at different rates. The ocean front's taxed much higher than everyone everyone else. So then that that generates a certain amount of money and our goal is to um do a project roughly every six years. So we looking at sort of financing it in that way. And so I think our Amy told me our taxes generate about $3 million a year. So over six years it's $18 million we can generate and then the county gives us a certain amount of money from the occupancy tax that goes towards our project. But that that's sort of getting spread more thin as time goes on with more projects that come online in the county. We're waiting to hear that number. We should get that this week. And um and so those are the two primary sources of of um funding we use for the project. And so um we also have been doing this for a while. So we've built up a little bit of a fund balance. That'll come into play, I'm sure. state state funding, not much. We've got we've gotten some grant funding from the state that's mainly gone towards helping us design a project.

Um maybe doing some sand fencing or sprigging, but but not really material in terms of the actual project construction.

And it's something we we hope that we can get the state to look at. You know, that's part of our legislative agenda, but no success yet on anything that's really substantial. um you know the county and the other towns get that same grant funding. It's like coastal storm damage mitigation grant funding. Um federal funding, it doesn't exist for this for us. You know, I think the federal government really stopped funding new projects around the early 2000s. back back in when I first started here in O2, um the town was really pursuing a federal project and then at some point we had a lobbyist back then, a federal lobbyist and and they were pursuing it for us and then essentially we were told that there were no new starts. So they had several projects already authorized that were 50-year projects. Southern Southern North Carolina had a lot um and those went for 50 years and then I guess you could get reauthorized, but you already had to be, you know, your foot already had to be in the door. So, I mean that's that's what we know. Hopefully that changes at some point, but you know, don't know

what it is. I don't know what the future holds for a federal funding. That's people are concerned about even have FEMA funding for, you know, because we um we've that's I mean, we've received since we've been doing nourishment, I think we've received about $28 million in FEMA funds to put sand back on the beach. So, that's a big big deal for us in all the towns. Thank you, Andy. Sure. Yeah. One other question. The the different companies that do the sand reourishment, do they have different procedures for doing it or do they all do it the same way? use a dredge boat and then pump it from the dredge boat.

My understanding is there's only about four companies in the country that do it and they do it in similar ways. Not all not every company's going to to propose to do a specific project the exact same way. It probably depends on what resources they have available. They have a number of different boats,

dredges, you know, you've got hopper dredges and you've got cutterhead dredges. The hopper dredges go offshore. They they dredge sand off the ocean floor, pump it into a hopper, sail back to near shore, hook it up to a pipe, pump it to the beach in a slurry, and then spread it that way. Cutterhead dredge will actually operate at a fixed location, pull sand off the ocean, and pipe it directly to shore so it's not putting it in the hole of the boat. Um, our past projects, it's mainly been hopper dredges because the sand's couple miles offshore and so they can't pipe it that distance. But South Nags Head, there is a potential to use a cutterhead dredge because that's where the sand is is right off South Nag. The next project, you may see a little bit of that.

Yeah. So, but yeah, there's some variations in how they do it. But, you know, I think it depends on what they've got multiple projects going on around the country. So, some of them have, oh, this big boat's free. We use this one like in 2019 the company Great Lakes used this dredge to Ellis Island which was the I think the biggest dredge available in the country. That dredge could hold 15,000 cubic yards of sand in the hall and sale in one sale. Crazy. Wow.

It it is stunning to if you if you pay attention to their their communications, they know exactly how much they're carrying. It's incredibly digital um and how much they're delivering and um it's pretty colorful if you know listen over over VHF radio so they're on a Coastg Guard frequency transmitting all this information back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. That that we actually went on that dredge. It was pretty interesting

that that was actually tug and barge. So, yeah, we had a we had a a few of our volunteers from the beach get out there and and try to resist the the sand being put on the beach a few years ago and it was it was quite interesting to watch the flea tried to get at the elephant. Thank you, Andy. We appreciate it. Okay, so um let's move on. We we went down a little bit of a rabbit hole like we like to do. Um we're on planning board members agenda. Does anybody have anything today?

I I'd just like to to I I need to leave. I've got another meeting. I know. And we we would have been done. Yeah. I know. And I I took I'm sorry I went on at great length. Um I just want to bore you with how boring I was um in your last meeting to to kind of No, but thank you all so much uh for this. It isn't how we disagree or that we disagree. It's how we agree that makes this board work. And um you both have taught me so much and I look forward to learning more about the rest of the board and our new members. And um at this point I'm going to run away. Is that okay? Yep. Well, sure. Yeah. Let's go ahead and leave us. Anybody else? We're going to adjourn the meeting if he's gone. I watch this. You need to find somebody else to do that.

I just I want to say that I've really enjoyed serving on the planning board. I uh have learned a ton on this board. I've learned to really appreciate everything that goes into every decision in our town and um really love our town a whole lot more and I'm excited to serve on the board of commissioners and I'm really um happy to have this planning board that I've worked with, you know, helping guide our decisions because I really respect and value all of your opinions and I've really enjoyed working with all of you and um I'm going to appreciate your perspectives. Can I have one more thing? No, you can't. Your time is up. You left.

No, thank you both for stepping up. stepping up in into your new position that was done at some great amount of time. So, thank you.

I would say that uh for those of us that are remaining here, we hope that you send us two very qualified new board members. Um, and we we are certain that the two of y'all will continue to do what I believe is maintain a head as the best run town in America. And there's nowhere else I would rather live or work for than this town. And I know y'all will maintain that in your new positions. And congratulations. Thank you.

Anybody else? And I will just finish up then just say what a joy it is to have worked with both of you, but all of you and the new members too, Basil and and Brad and of course my friend Dave here. But I think Dave Elder said it best that we find more commonality. We share a vision that we all totally support. And I I just couldn't be more optimistic about what is going to happen with this new board of commissioners and what we can do to support the growth in the way that we want NASA to grow and I just look forward to working for you guys in in the years to come.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Me, you don't work for us. We all work together, right? We do, but we support you. Common calls

and I Yeah, I echo everybody else's comments. We'll we'll finish up. I was hoping to have like a record-breaking short meeting for y'all to remember me by, but thanks to He's already gone because he's so busy. No, all joking aside, I think it's important um that we that we've taken the time that we take the time to talk here. And you know, sometimes I know it it can go on a little bit, but I I personally think it's great. I hope that whoever um sits in the chair and gets on the board feels the same way because I think the planning board's really important. At least that's how I feel and I and I echo Molly's comments about how much I've learned and from staff and time on this planning board. So, we look forward to uh I look forward to working with everybody moving forward. And I have ultimate confidence in this group. I think it's a, like I said earlier, I think it's a great opportunity. You'll have a couple of new members and you can start out fresh and um it'll it'll go well. I'm sure we'll look forward to hearing from you.

All right. Thank you, Megan. You're welcome. So, with that said, I'll entertain a motion to May I make a motion to adjourn, please? We have a motion to adjourn. That's all we need. Thank you. Had to be done by somebody.