Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Wake up. This is the way we do it. Starting bell.

We got to wait for the for the thumbs up to make sure. Are you good? Okay. Good morning everybody and welcome to the Nags Head Planning Board meeting Tuesday, August 19th. This is our call to order and our first order of business will be actually to amend our agenda to include a presentation. We're lucky enough today to have attorney Lauren Wample with us. She's going to give us a presentation about how our board operates and some ethical issues and those sorts of things. So, thank you Lauren. And we will need to amend the agenda, please, to include her presentation. She's going to go right after public comments. So, do I have a motion to amend the agenda, please? Sure, you I will make a motion. Okay, I have a motion.

Second. All in favor? I. Great. Okay. The agenda is amended and we'll move on to public comment and audience response. Is there anybody with us today that wants to speak during public comment? Okay, great. We'll close that section of the meeting then and move on to the approval of our minutes from July 15th. Can I make a motion to approve them? We have a motion to approve the minutes of our July 15th meeting and a second. Second. All in favor? Great. I think moving on then. One of them needs to owe the other one a Coke. Yeah. Good morning again.

Good morning. Good morning. Just a second here. So, Kelly asked me, "Did I have anything I wanted to project up on the screen?" And I said, "No, because it's all code, town code, and uh general statutes, and I don't know that you guys just want to read along with me." So, I'm going to give you um an overview about the planning board and how the planning board um is supposed to operate um your duties and obligations and then um we can if you have some questions, please interrupt me or we'll have some time at the end. I know Kelly kind of gave me a little bit of a time window and um but feel free to interrupt me if you have a question about the specific item I'm talking about. Um so first I want to lead with uh North Carolina General Statute 160D301 sets forth the duties and responsibilities of the planning board. Um this is codified in town code um section 2.4.4 And the planning board is um supposed to prepare, review, maintain, monitor, and periodically update um and recommend to the governing board a comprehensive plan and other plans deemed appropriate um to con and to conduct ongoing re related research, data collection, mapping, and analysis. As you know, the planning board is an advisory board. So you guys aren't necessarily making the final decision about any development matter, but you are going to review in depth all things related to development and make recommendations to the board of commissioners. Um you're going to make recommendations about policies and ordinances. Um you're to facilitate community and um citizen involvement in reviewing anything related to development

and um zoning amendments. amendments. Um you're going to um review and comment on those and then there's kind of this catchall. Anything else the board decides to give you to review, right? And so that can be many different things. Um there may be um some uh research that the planning that the board of commissioners wants the planning board to look into and gather some citizen involvement regarding upcoming development in the area or making some modifications. What interest is there in um modifying certain areas of the zoning ordinance. So um there's many different functions you can play, but primarily it's advisory to the board of commissioners. Um so section 2.1.3 of our UDO um is a little even more specific about what your role is within the town and a head and um specifically uh as it relates to reviewing site plans, major site plans, special use applications, and vested rate applications. And so we're going to talk a little bit about more about those specific things. Um but first I want to talk about that comprehensive land use plan and uh your involvement in that and why that's so important. So um as you're aware every municipality, town, county is required by statute to have a comprehensive land use plan. Right? This is kind of your guiding principles towards development and regulating development in the community. And this plan um spans over a number of years. It's for future planning. It's supposed to help guide text amendments, um map amendments, and things of that nature so that the town is moving towards those long-term goals. Um so, if

you haven't been through a review of the land use or comprehensive plan yet, I know there's a couple new members. Um that plan is extensive. It requires a lot of public input, a lot of public hearing, and it's really important because it is kind of that guiding star about where the future of the town is going. Um, and so, um, in order and by statute, you know, what's the timing of that? How frequently are you going to do that? You may sit on a board that a term of for planning board or two and never have to do a full um comprehensive plan update. Um it really depends on how rapidly development is occurring in the town and I would say that um it's usually somewhere between five and 10 years unless your um board just decid the board of commissioners decides to review it more frequently. It's usually about every 5 to 10 years you have this big comprehensive review and update of the plan. Um so just kind of tuck that away. Um the the plan is important because when you get to reviewing um text amendments and map amendments by statute, you are required to include in your recommendation a plan consistency statement. Right? So again, back to the comprehensive plan is your guiding star. The um when you review a text amendment or a map amendment, part of your recommendation board commissioners has to be is this amendment consistent with the plan, right? And so luckily here and Mag said, you guys have great staff who's going to give you a fantastic report and tell you where wh why it is or isn't consistent with the plan. But I would encourage you to spend some time reviewing the plan when you get an application. Um review it uh and and take the plan with it and kind of review them in

conjunction. Uh, now what I will say is the plan is long, it's detailed, it's extensive. If you have questions, call Kelly. Um, um, but you always want to use that kind of as your filter when you're reviewing those amendments because that's what we're supposed to be following. Um, in regards to timing and text for text amendments. So, you are always going to have the opportunity to and by you're required to review text and math amendments first. Um so question is how can text amendments be initiated in the town of Ninstead? Uh they can be initiated by a motion by the board of commissioners, uh a motion by the planning board or um by a person within the zoning jurisdiction of the town. So these applications can come from these three different areas. Um I think the board your board's probably familiar with um these text amendment uh requests. Sometimes you have a recommendation from staff. I think the board undertake this text amendment and consider this um board of sometimes that staff recommendation goes to the board of commissioners. Board of commissioners says yes proceed with that text or map amendment and let's work it through the process. However that text or map amendment begins it's always going to filter through the planning board first. Um so when that uh application comes through um the board has 30 days to review and provide its comment to the board of commissioners. Now if you don't act or make a recommendation within 30 days um the board of commissioners can proceed to consider the text or map amendment without a recommendation from the board. Uh what I will say is while that can occur and I have seen it occur, board of commissioners usually uh really wants to hear what the planning board has to say

and if there's some reason why a a recommendation hasn't come through in 30 days or there's an you know it's a lengthy extensive review. Um the plan I consistently I would say the board commissioner will wait to have something from the planning board. Um, this is, you know, talked earlier about you're an advisory board. Part of your role is to engage the community in citizen input. Um, and this is one of those areas, text and map amendments where planning board review is really important for a number of reasons. Um, one I will say public involvement. So, usually, and the planning board is probably familiar, um public involvement, uh when it comes to text amendments and map amendments is always after they're adopted and the impacts hit the street and citizens are angry, right? And they're like, "What did you do and why did you do this?" And the town's always like, "We had five meetings about it and we talked about it and it was in the newspaper and it was on the website, right?" And so, um, planning review is just another opportunity for the public and citizens to be engaged, right? You all touch numerous people in your daily lives, in your professions. And so, um, that just gives another, um, opportunity to engage the communities even more. um you know, you can have community meetings and do different things that will engage the community some more on these texts and map amendments because they have a direct impact on our citizens and often they don't realize that they are occurring until after they have happened. And so um that's one primary reason why planning board review is really important. The other is um you weren't appointed to this board by accident. Okay. You all have varied backgrounds, varied profession, varied professions, um varied histories in the

area, long-term, short term. And so your insight and review offers another perspective to staff, to the board of commissioners about an application, a text amendment, or a map amendment. So your review um is, I would say, vital to the process. that's clear because it's ordered by statute. But I think that just the impact um as we see it um imposed here in Nagad um is really important. So um just keep that in mind when you are reviewing those items. Uh a few tips when you're making a recommendation. So sometimes you will see that the planning board's recommendation is the opposite of what the board of commissioners does, right? Your recommendation's not binding on the board. Um but it like I said I do think it is valued and very important. Um and so in that vein I would say when you are doing a review and you're making your recommendation spend some time talk in your deliberations talking about the reasons for your decisions. Right? So the board uh your minutes are made available for the board. Your minutes are made available to the community. And so I think it's important for them to see the re your reasoning behind we recommend approval or disapproval. We recommend this change or this modification to this this amendment. So um those things are helpful to the board to to hear why you're making your certain recommendations.

Um can I jump in here for just one quick second? I don't there may be a time towards the end when you're talking about sure

um this subject but not long ago you made remarks about you know just public input that we're out in the community and we're a varied group and we you know you do have people talking to you um what what's the guidance on you know I've had people actually approach me and want me to come look at something that we're getting ready to look at or something like that or you know and and so it gets a little, you know, it's one thing and we all talk to a lot of people in our community. that's why we're here. But what's the guidance on that as far as you know I I didn't in this one particular situation go out to the site of a person who was

had applied for a text amendment but because I just didn't think you know I realize we're not a decision-making board but still is that a situation we should get in where we're talking directly to an applicant prior to a

so what I will I think that is um there's two two parts to that um One is a political decision, the other is a legal decision. Um, politically I would say that's in your discretion. Um, legally I would also say it's in your discretion because of your function as the board. Um, so the planning board is going to hear and review applications and they are all going to be legislative decisions. So um contrast that to the board of adjustment or the board of commissioners who are maybe the final decision making stop if you will. Um the quasi judicial procedure requires that there not be exparte communications. Um that includes also exparte information gathering. Um quasi judicial means that the board is sitting as the judge. um which means you can only um consider the competent evidence that's presented to you um during the hearing. Okay? So, contrast that to legislative, which is um the board can make a decision. I I always kind of use this as example for clients sometimes. I'm like, it's legislative, which means if somebody walks in in a purple shirt shirt and I don't like purple, I can just say, "No, I don't think so. Not today." Right? Okay. Um legislative It's it's a political decision. It's in your discretion. Do you agree with it? Do you not agree with it? Um your personal feelings about or you know concerns of your citizens can play a role in legislative decisions, right? Quasi judicial, you're sitting as an impartial decision maker as a judge, right? So you can't let um outside influences make the determination. You have to be driven by the standards and the code. So if you

sitting as the planning board are approached by a citizen or an applicant who says, "Hey, this is coming before you. I really want you to come check out this this site or you know this subdivision or whatever." Um I want to talk to you about this issue which you might get more frequently than anything else. Um you can do that. What I will say is then you are armed with information that maybe the rest of the board does not have. And so in those circumstances, if you are going to engage or talk with a community member or something about it, then you need to be able to share that with the rest of the board, right? Um or or encourage that citizen applicant to say come to the planning board meeting. You know, I'm only one of the board members. My entire board would benefit from this information. you know, please come to the board, share this information. We all need to know it. Um, so you're not going to break any rules or um derail a uh application by and talking to somebody or anything like that. Um, what I will say is best practices is to make sure the entire board, you know, has the opportunity to know or learn that information. Encourage the citizens to also reach out.

Right. Really good question.

Thank you. Um so other items the planning board does other than text amendments um comprehensive uh land use plan um and this is really in regards to site development right so major site plans preliminary plat vested right site plans subdivision waiverss and special use permits which really falls into that major site plan category. Um I really want to spend time on the special use permit. So just prelim preliminarily let me just say uh preliminary plat vested right site plans and subdivision waivers. Well first let me say subdivision waivers. Wow. I was preparing for this today and I was like subdivision waivers. You learn something new every day. I don't think I've ever had that issue come up here in NASA before. Very rare. Um so I I I do want to mention them because they are rare. Um but the some u a citizen can apply to have a waiver for a subdivision. These are really rare and due to really unique situations where maybe something could not qualify, they can ask for a waiver and that would first start with this board um giving a review and then it would have to go to the board commissioners and it would have to be by a supermajority decision by the commissioners. Um so that's just a really unique I want to share with you guys mostly because I just learned it. So um but of course the best write plans preliminary plats you guys I'm sure have touched those multiple times those will come through. What I will say about anything that you are going to review anything that comes before you is let the UDO be your guiding star. Okay. And the comprehensive plan. So, um, when you are reviewing these things, you want to focus in on what are the standards in the ordinance and does this meet the

standards, right? And if it does or doesn't and and go from there. That's really what you have to follow. So, and again, staff's going to give you a fantastic report and give you all the details you need. Um, so just um, use the ordinance as your um, guidance for those reviews. All right. So, special use permits. So, this is probably one of the hotly uh contested issues or areas um lively areas within uh planning board review. You can find this in the um UDO under 3.8.3. So, um talking about review of special use permits. So, just if you ever want to go review that, just know it's in there. Um, so generally speaking, when you are reviewing an application for a special use permit, um, if the use is permitted in the zoning district, um, you are not considering whether you like the use or not. Okay? You are only considering whether it meets the standards in the ordinance. Okay? And that's often a real hard position to be in. harder for the board of commissioners because they have to make the decision, but it's still really hard for the planning board because you have to send a recommendation. And so, um, sometimes when you receive an application for a special use permit, you have that citizen board rub, which is, um, citizens are going, "Oh my gosh, I cannot believe this use is permitted in the zoning district. It's 25 yards from my house, and now I'm going to have a hotel in my backyard or whatever." Right? And so, um, That's where that rub comes in. And again, we're not look, you are not looking at whether you like the use or don't like the use. You are considering only if it's a permitted use in the zoning district. And if it is, then you were looking at the design standards um within the ordinance. You have to consider that. Um now our

ordinance and by general statute, um you can um spec specifically 3.83.1 um the Planning board may in its review suggest reasonable conditions to the location, nature, and extent of the proposed use and its relationship to the surrounding properties, parking areas, driveways, pedestrians, vehicular circulation systems, screening, landscaping, timing of development, and any other conditions the planning board may find appropriate. So, this is um that sounds really really broad and sounds really really fantastic like great. I can put any condition I want to on this or recommend any condition I want to on a special use permit. But it's not quite that easy. Um any condition or recommended condition that comes from this board or a condition that's adopted by the decision-making board has to be related to standards within the ordinance. So, all has to tie back to those standards in the ordinance. Um, frequently you'll see, and you've seen it before in applications that have come through, staff report says staff's recommending approval or disapproval or approval subject to these conditions and there's a list of conditions. Um, generally the applicants already reviewed and agreed to them, but here they are. Um, in addition to those, if you think that there may be another condition necessary or appropriate, you can also recommend those. Again, your recommendation is not binding on the board of commissioners. Okay. Um so time limitation, we talked earlier about text amendment, maps amendments, and that the board has 30 days for special use permit review. You have 45 days before the um board of commissioners uh can uh take the special use permit under review. Um, again, I

would say the same um principles apply that the board of commissioners really wants to hear what you have to say, really wants your input from the review. Um, so there are situations where I've seen um applications take longer than 45 days. It may take two meetings, right? And if you're meeting once a month, that's not going to be 45 days. Um, and just depending on the size of the project, the amount of public involvement. So, just just note that. Um so recom your recommendation for legislative decisions the text amendments the map amendments to the board of commissioners while not binding the board can say you know what the planning board decided recommended we not approve we're going to go with the planning board's recommendation right well that's different when you're talking about special use permits because special use permits are quasi judicial procedure the board of commissioners can canot not rely on your recommendation for their decision as it relates to a special use permit. And so sometimes you'll hear um there's specific in 160D it says that the board cannot rely on the planning board's recommendation. Our ordinance says that the planning board's recommendation shall be considered and shall be made um part of the record. So, we kind of have this rub where it feels like it doesn't really mesh, but it does because again, you're an advisory board. And so, what it does is is it permits the board of commissioners or staff. I've seen staff's report update following the planning board meeting saying, you know, this came up during the planning board review. Staff went and took another look at this issue and based on that, we recommend this. Um, it may raise issues where the board Ask the applicant additional questions. The key

is is that the decision-making board with their hat on as the judge has to keep your recommendation as information available. They can't say, you know what, we want this condition because the planning board wants this condition without any other basis. Um so that's where it's a little bit u different there. um in regards to special use permits and text amendments. Um uh the last two things I want to cover before I open the floor for questions if there are any um are really more general. So conflicts of interest, this is one of the areas that Kelly asks I I touch on. So appointed board members shall not vote on advisory or legislative decisions, which is everything that you guys do um regarding development um where the outcome of the matter being considered is reasonably likely to have a direct, substantial, and readily identifiable financial impact on the on the member. Um in addition if there is a person who the member has a close familial business or other associational relationship. So that's a lot. So let's talk about it. The money one's really easy, right? If you're going to have a financial benefit of in some form or fashion um be it direct in your pocket or something like that and you are your decision is driven by any sort of financial gain or benefit um you should not participate in the consideration and vote. Um, in terms of family, business or associational relationship, family is really easy, right, to to delineate. Business is really easy to to delineate. Associational relationship, what does that mean? Well, what I will tell you is it's not defined like a lot of really good things in the law. It's the gray area.

So, um, I think that just means does it pass the sniff test? Okay. If there's an associational relationship, are you the um uh on the let's see the the PTA with your um neighbor and you guys are best friends and you spend every weekend at the beach together right? Does it pass the sniff test? Are you going to be able to be a fair and impartial decision maker? Right. The whole point of conf of avoiding conflict of interest is that your recommendation, your vote is supposed to be impartial, right? And to the degree that your personal involvement with this individual or the applicant is not going to sway your decision. Um, so what do you do if that happens or you think you might have a conflict or you're not really sure because maybe it falls in the gray area, right? Um, or maybe it's your third cousin by marriage who's applied for this. You know, I guess technically it's family. What do we do? Um, first thing you do is call Kelly. Um, and then she's going to reach out to um, whoever whoever's serving as your attorney for that week. Um, we will work we will can reach out to you. We will talk about it. We'll work through it and we'll give you our advice whether or not there's a conflict. And so just know that if that comes up, best thing you can do is reach out if you have any questions. Sometimes we have folks reach out and we're like, "No, no, no, no, you're fine. Don't even worry about it." You know, or sometimes it takes a little more information gathering. Um, and ultimately if you do have a conflict then, um, you'll recuse yourself from participate participating in that. Let the board know. Um, it you know, people board members can be challenged for conflicts of interest. um that procedure is that someone from

the board makes the motion or an applicant makes the motion and then the board votes on that. Again, that's really rare. Usually, it's clear and the board member says, "Yes, I do." Or, "No, I don't." And then we kind of flesh that out, too. So, just let us know and we'll work through those. Uh the last thing I want to cover is public records. Public records request and your public email. Um so, you all have to sign email addresses for the town. Um, couple cautions with that is one we are subject to open meetings laws which means if you are all emailing on a reply all and saying I think I'm going to vote this way, you are having a meeting by email. Okay, you cannot do that. Um, you should you'll get mass emails from staff that says here's the agenda packet or here's this or here's an announcement or so and so sent an email and ask we distribute it to the board. Don't reply all because if you do we'll be in violation of open meetings laws. Um, the other thing about your email is um they are subject to public records request. Okay? So be mindful of that when you're engaging on your email. I mean, anything that you send on that email can be subject to a public records request. What I will also say is public records requests can extend to your personal items and meaning a personal email address. If you've got a Gmail or something like that, if you are conducting public business, it can be subject to a public record request. So, um, those are kind of my cautionary tales at the end in terms of conflicts and public records. Um, and just my overview. I'd be happy to cover anything else if I miss anything um and answer any questions.

Yes. Um I get a I am my planning board emails are included on my personal email and it's easier for me to respond or check my personal email. Should I

be more habitual about checking my town email instead of my personal email? Like should I should I conduct any business with my personal email or should I do it only with my town email? So, what I will say is best practice is to use your town email. Um, I mean, this is a practically a volunteer position. So, we certainly don't want to run anybody off by saying you can only use your town email. Um, what I will say is it's not a problem till it is a problem. And that is when there's a public records request. Public records request a town email. Town staff can issue a request to it. Please go capture all these emails. Here's the search ter terms for it. Go get them all. If you are not using your town email, then you're going to get an email from Kelly that says, um, please go through your personal email and find each and every email for the last three years that uses the word planning board. Okay? And then 10 hours later, you may be like, I wish I had used the town email. Okay? So, it's not as long as the information is available, you can't delete it, things like that. You can use your personal email,

but it's probably not going to be worth it in the end. And so that's the, you know, best practice. Use the town email, but it's not a violation, per se. Thank you. Anyone else? Anybody else have questions? I have one more thing. Yes. If we're standing in the parking lot talking about planning board things, how many people can be in the group? Well, you can't have a quorum. That never happened, right? Yeah. Till. So, you can't have a quorum. So quorum is the let's see you have seven. So more than half. So four can't have more than three. Yeah. Okay. Can't have more than three.

Not that we do that. So car car pooling is out.

Well, you know, car pool you can certainly car pool. I mean you guys would might be in the same location. You know, it just depends on if you're conducting town business or not. And the thing is about being together or being in, you know, kind of unless you guys are already an intact group of seven who socialize regularly, which generally is not the case. If you were all in one location, the majority of you are all in one location, that's going to raise red flags, right? And so whether you're conducting formal town business or not, it makes the community question wonder. Part of this is being transparent. Um, you hear that a lot. We want to be transparent with citizens. We want applicants and um and citizens to feel like they can come before the board and and and have a kind of a fair shake of the process where there's not this like backdoor dealing. And that's really the thing. So, um I so I represent Chongan County Board of Commissioners and um they will occasionally uh like the A Center will want to host them for dinner because the kids have learned to cook something and so they're putting on a dinner for the board of commissioners and the board's not going to conduct any business. But we always send out a notice that says, "Hey, the board of commissioners are all going to be in one location. Don't panic. They're just eating dinner." Okay? And so if you are going to be in a location like that, there's going to be something going on. Sometimes staff will kind of send that notice out. Um but you you want to avoid it. You want to avoid being the majority in one location. You don't want to quum it to discuss town business. So

who does that notice go to? The public. The public. Okay. It does. I mean it doesn't say don't panic, but that's the message, right? I figured that it's just posted like where the meeting notices are online. Um, so people know, okay, the board's getting together and and then you get some citizens who are convinced they're going to be conducting business and we'll go just to see. Um, so, you know, it just depends, but it does give some of that air transparency that we're not we're not doing things behind closed doors. So, I have I have a a question. Um, sure.

If a situation comes to light where um a decision was made and there and there may have been a conflict of interest Is there is does it mitigate the the decision directly or indirectly or is that is that purely a legal course of action?

So um I would say it depends um a there are very strict review um and appeal statute of limitations as it relates to development approvals and they range depending on the type of development approval. Um they can be as short as 30 days um as long as three years. Um so it depends on what type of decision was made. Um but a uh potential conflict of interest can be challenged on appeal. Okay. And so if a let's say that an applicant comes through, special use permit and the board of commissioners, a conflict of interest down here that may have existed that wasn't uncovered until later is not going to be a deal breakaker per se because the final decision-making board is the board of commissioners. But let's say it's the board of commissioners. And um after the approval or denial of the application, a conflict of interest becomes aware, they become aware of one or some sort of relationship somebody had. Um the applicant or someone with standing uh can appeal the decision and one of the basis for the appeal can be the alleged conflict and they can raise that with the court. Um and then the court would review from there make a decision whether to send it back for a new review or kind of what decision they'll make from there. But if it's not challenged within the period of time, that specific statute of limitations time, it stands.

Anyone else? Anybody else have questions? I have one more regarding conflict of interest. Does the appearance of a conflict of interest ever enter into the decision? Um, she laughing at me. Uh, oh,

no. I would say no. So you know that that that um other associational relationship you know does it pass the sniff test you know sometime there the who who decides that right what is the sniff test whose standard is that is the appearance of a conflict matter you know are you you you live in the community you socialize in the community you're going to know people who come in here you're going to know the developers you're going to know the applicants it may be your neighbor down the street or somebody like that. The question, so while it may appear to somebody or another citizen that there's a conflict and you shouldn't participate, the question is really um can are you benefiting from it and can you separate out your personal relationship, if you will, to a certain degree. Some are barred by statute, but can you can you um leave that at the door and fulfill your role as a planning board member? And so that's kind of where those gray areas come in. Um but ultimately, you know, if you're a board member, you have an obligation, a statutory obligation to vote. Sometimes people come in, they're like, I'm going to abstain. I'm like, well, if you abstain, that's a yes vote, by the way. Like that's the default. And so you can't abstain by statute. You are required to vote. Um because you have to f your duty and your role. So, um even if there's an appearance and it's uncomfortable, you still have to participate

down the road about saying, "Can you vote present?" I'm sorry. Can you vote present? In in response to a thing I I'm I'm agnostic to it. Um I I don't you know I you know I I don't want to stand for it. Um c could one vote present? If you vote present, that's the same as abstaining and that's going to be count as a vote as a yes vote. Agree. Um so if you if you you have to say no, you know, okay, you have to vote to So you must vote yes or no. There is no third option. Correct. Recuse yourself if there's a conflict.

Recuse yourself. You would be happy.

But this is what's interesting. So, and this got a little more detailed. I was I wasn't sure, but um when you're kind of determining um the calculation of a vote, if you will, right? So, whether someone's been if you have a vacancy on the board or someone's been recused or someone's just absent. Um all those things impact the number for majority, right? So, if you are here, but you don't vote because you say uh present or abstain or whatever, um you're still counted in the number for the majority, right? If someone is absent and was approved to be absent in advance by the chair, um or the board, you know, says yes, we're going to excuse them from this vote, um they don't count in the number for the majority. If you have a vacancy, they don't they don't count in the number of the majority. or if someone is excluded for a conflict, they're not they're not included in the majority. But if you try to recuse yourself without a legal basis for a conflict,

you're abstaining. Okay? So, you know, you have to that's why those conflicts of interest have to kind of be fleshed out in advance so that we know how to calculate the vote because it comes down to one one way or the other. If you abstain or try to I'm I'm not voting because I have a conflict. Well, what is the conflict? Is there a legal basis? You may still be counted as a yes. Makes sense. Anybody else have questions? Okay. Well, great. Thank you so much. This has been very useful information for us. We appreciate you being here. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Take care.

Okay. So, let's move on to our action items. And the first one will be consideration of text amendment to the UDO uh to comply with session law which requires local governments to reduce the minimum width of standard parking space from 10 ft to 9 ft length remaining at 20. And Kelly, good morning. Good morning. I think you just gave my entire staff. Okay.

Well, there's really not a whole lot to talk about with this. We don't really have an option. Um It's now session law. We have to abide by what's been adopted here. We don't get an option um to do anything differently. So, I did put in your staff report that um our ordinances have always been 10 feet in width for your parking stall, uh 20 feet in depth. You can reduce it to 18 um if you have a a a wheel in a two foot overhang. Um, but 10 feet has always been our width and that's always served us well. Being that we're predominantly um, tourism driven, you have a lot of people bringing their SUVs, trucks, they've got the hitch with the thing hanging off the back. They've got roof racks, they've got everything going on. And so the 10 feet has always been um, ideal for parking and also for maneuvering. Um but unfortunately we don't get to make that decision in this. Um so what we've had to do is amend our um UDO in areas where necessary um to address that our parking standard for both commercial and residential where we have applied the 10 foot in width we now have to go with nine based upon this new legislation. So, um, the proposed text is on the screen. It would be amending table 10-1 as that relates to residential parking. Um, it doesn't affect angled parking, parallel parking, handicap parking. Um, so it's just going to be your

um 90 degree parking stall width. So we can still keep our um wider widths when we're talking about angled parking and parallel parking. And then table 108 um is what we rely on for our commercial standards. So and I agree with everything Lauren said. I did not provide you with a list of land use policies that either agree or disagree with this because it's not an option.

Right. Is there any verbiage in the in the statute from state on that we're kind of getting in the umbrella about access aisles um in association with this and you know I'm thinking specifically like ADA does have an access aisle issue where the parking space is a minimum maximum there's a yeah this does not address this would not apply to any ADA or handicap parking

right well but but even like the federal standard is for the parking spaces X and then there's that area of accessibility around the vehicle and you know my my my thought is it there might be some access issues in association with some parking spaces as this comes up and I'm wondering if an access aisle might be part of the mix. two SUVs are parked in a in a parking space. Um, and it will get can create choke points or accessibility issues. Um, especially in kind of a strip mall setting um where people you can't get between the cars and oddly, you know, damage occurs. That's kind of one of those things. So, I kind of wonder in an area where there might be a a door a window or I'm sorry, a door or service window that the people are accessing and there's a parking space adjacent to it, could you request for an access aisle um above and beyond the maximum minimum parking lot size?

Um, so it may be a misunderstanding. So, nothing is changing with ADA. Yes, I I I completely agree. And so to go to try to um deviate from what North Carolina general statute has provided would be us seeking special legislation. Okay.

So I I think we'll have to keep an eye on it and see how that moves forward if that's an issue. Um but I don't I I don't envision us seeking special legislation at this point. And the other thing that I have seen is where you may have a if you have this standard um you ask for more parking spaces um is you know and that that's what kills as does as an example are they going to have to to do that are they going to have to amend their standard just to generally not have that we suggest 10 feet but if you want nine feet you need more parking spaces. Um, no. I we we are not proposing that. It's our understanding that we don't get an option to voluntarily we want you to do nine, but if you do 10, we're going to somehow alter your parking. Um, you know, parking in and of itself is also under consideration by the legislature, either eliminating in totality our ability to regulate parking, um, much less require more parking. Um, so I I don't we're not on a path to doing that, but we'll certainly keep it in mind.

Okay. Absolutely. Kelly, just out of curiosity, do we know why the state did this? Um I honestly I I do not I think in other areas you have smaller vehicles, compact vehicles and that's you know perhaps some people even have eight foot wide spaces for their more compact vehicles. Um so I think nine was you know probably in other areas might make sense. Not to say that it can't be done here. It's just not what we're accustomed to change. We don't think it was some parking lot stripe painter lobbyist group or something like that. Well, it probably was.

Who knows? Maybe. Do you ever see people like repaving their restriping their parking lots to get more parking spaces in or do you think they won't do that? Um, you know, existing businesses probably not. If you have one that is trying to do an addition or they're doing some type of remodel, um, where they need a few extra spaces and doing the restripe will help. Yes, I think they will. Yeah, get a couple extras. Yeah, I mean, parking's at a premium. Okay, anybody else have questions? So, we need a motion to um make this happen. We don't have a choice. So, so moved. Okay, we have a motion

to approve and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. Anybody opposed? Okay, we'll move on to then Miss Wyatt, I think you're going to stay up there for the report on board of commissioners action from their August 6th meeting.

Just real quick, not a whole lot to report out on um the text amendment that was filed by TWW's outfit TWW um outdoor outfitters to amend um the space that's required between principal and accessory structures from 20 feet to 10 feet. Um that was on consent agenda. So that's going to be going to public hearing in September. And they did um vote to keep our sand relocation and dune management cost share u money at 400,000 which is ideal. Um this past year we did not I think we were at about 250,000. We didn't get close to the 400. Um but the way our dune management cost share works on a three-year cycle. So, um this coming year, this coming season, and then the following, those people who took advantage of it the first year, we anticipate will cycle back through. So, I think the 400 um thousand will will be necessary. And um was pretty much it. The only other thing was an update on the Estrin Shoreline Management Plan. Um Joe Costello gave that. Um I'm sure If there's specific questions, he'll be happy to discuss it uh with the planning board as well.

That's all we have. Kelly, I'm sorry. Backing up to that TWW's request in the public hearing coming up in September. That's the same item we talked about at this meeting last month, right? And I'm now this is a process question. So, we said we recommended against it, but it goes to a public hearing anyway. It does. Um so, um the planning board an advisory board or a recommending board. So they um that today you all gave your Yep. You all gave your recommendation for denial.

Um so now the board of commissioners will hear it at public hearing and they will certainly take your recommendation into consideration but as Lauren said it is not binding. They could certainly do something different with it if they So thank you for clarifying the process there. Yeah, absolutely. Was the owner of that still pursuing this amendment or did because did he did he show up at the meeting at the board of commissioners? Um so they haven't had the board of commissioners meeting yet. Oh

um so that's the the consent agenda. Um they don't have to be present for consent agenda. It's just an opportunity for the board to go ahead and schedule the public hearing so we can get it advertised and get the proper notifications out there. Um, but yeah, ideally he will be uh the applicant will be at the board of commissioner September agenda for this public hearing. Um, I've not had communication with him, but he has reached out to other staff. Any other questions regarding EOC actions from early August? Town updates. Anybody have requested information on town updates? Okay, let's move on to our discussion item. Thank you, Kelly. Move on to our discussion items. And um the first one would be continued discussion of strategic plan action item 2.2 two as it relates to the examination of allowable uses within the commercial outdoor recreational overlay district aka the chord

and Mr. Costello presenting. Well, thank you. Good morning, planning board. Um, last month my computer died. I got a new motherboard in between. So, I think we're good for today.

Um, just a quick recap on sort of how we got here. In our strategic plan, one of the items um for for planning department to look at was the incompatibility between basically what our UDO recommends for our commercial outdoor recreation district and what the zone and um then sort of what what our comprehensive plan um is basically recommending and sort of visioning as far as development in the area. Um staff reviewed zoning as well as sort of existing plans, existing conditions, existing land use, um site plans that have been approved and put that into a report and that was sent to the planning board in March. um sort of comprehensive existing conditions report and then with recommendations on how to amend the UDO to um better align with what the comprehensive plan um states we want to see from a development perspective in the area. Um, we looked as well as transportation networks. Um, you know, in our comprehensive plan when when it was developed, you know, the the multi-use path hadn't fully been built out. That's been built out. We have the um Southside Event Center that has site plan approval and to my understanding has been um you know shopping and and looking to approve um the uh the bid um package for development there of the entire boardwalk. And so it felt like a good time to kind of look at this more holistically than just from a zoning perspective. We've had conversations in May. We sort of fleshed out a little bit, you know, what are what are the issues here and and what are the opportunities and

and do does the report meet what you know planning board sees as well from a compatibility perspective and um we sort of narrowed down that you know we want to see better infrastructure. We like these commercial outdoor recreation uses here, but maybe if property owners had some more flexibility to have multiple uses or mixed use um and basically liven it up a little bit, have it have it be um an activity note as it's so labeled in the comprehensive plan. Um the comprehensive plan talks about connectivity between the whale bone activity node and the soundside activity node. commercial outdoor recreation district sort of overlaps with the soundside activity node although it does extend over on the causeway. Um the chord report sort of breaks out those geographic sections and kind of talks about each individual character. Um as we kind of continued with our discussions into June, it came to we you know really we're limited by um SB um the or you know the this basically the general assembly law that makes it so that we can't remove things that would be considered a down zoning 382. Um um and so we looked at well how do we kind of add flexibility to the zoning ordinance to allow sort of this diversity use and um a little more interactivity between our sort of premier commercial area and and the retail there and our outdoor recrees and then the southside event center development. Um and then um also how do we make it a place you know sort of cord is kind of not not you know very branded term and talking about things like vegetation and public art and street vendors and and other things that maybe could bring some more attention and

development to the area and sort of align with what what the comprehensive plan says. Um, and so now we're at the stage where I've outlined in my next steps. Um, you know, a couple things that we sort of talked about last meeting, too. We just didn't get it all together. But I think we're getting closer now to, you know, I think, um, Brad, um, offered that we could maybe take like a field trip to the adventure park and and be able to have that bird's eye view. I thought that would be a good opportunity between this meeting and the Knicks that we could kind of take in twos or threes or, you know, a nonofficial meeting group to just look at what what we're talking about. Um, one of the other things we talked about was public engagement and getting the property owners and the public to to come in and and weigh in on, you know, what what they what property owners would want to sort of encourage the what the development we want to see. what what could we do to encourage um that and have more open conversation with them. So hopefully we can invite them to the September board meeting um and then having the tourism board potentially present on the progress at the southside event site and in hearing you know where they're at. Um, I put together this animation which really it's a model. Um, it's a it's a SketchUp model that used the GIS layers and then the approved site plans. I just sort of designed up. So, it's like a 3D design. Um, I think it's helpful because have the opportunity to kind of, you know, it's like you're fixing a car. You don't want to like call someone and talk about like what the rattle is. It's easier to look at it and talk about it and and make tweets and just sort of ingest it that way. Um so similarly I thought it would be helpful to just provide a visual and again this is sort of like not bound by architectural and and current EDO requirements but just hopefully getting the highlights of what we talked about.

So I'll push play. This just kind of walks you around the model. Um and so another one of the things we talked about was scale of buildings and access to the sound on maintaining the visual and um access connection to the sound. So here's you know again just a sort of a rendering if you will of what a boardwalk could look like as it connects. Um maybe you know there's an easement there behind the outlets. Maybe the outlets could even be reconfigured and face the sound and take advantage of that view. Um, you know, they they could maybe even peer out with a little gazebo there. Um, again, I'm just, um, you know, this isn't, uh, an expectation of of staff or those property owners or anything like that, but just just an opportunity to kind of think about this commercial node in town and and, you know, maybe provide a visual that hopefully reflects what we've talked about and sort of like a little little maybe a little micro brewery could be up. Maybe a little uh, wedding venue.

Wedding venue. Oh, nice. Um, and then you know over at the Southside event site, this is actually just traced on top of what that site plan is. So, you know, those pickle ball courts kind of the adventure park having that um boardwalk sort of provide some circulation around that event site. But I think there's a lot of opportunity. People are going to be parking at the outlet mall and then they kind of got to walk on the multi-use path and then, you know, it's all it's all there. You know, I I think it's a It's a great opportunity now to look at that development and put some public art in there. There's some art. Yeah, I see. So, anyway, that's just a rendering. I think that's cool. Yeah.

What it the animation could or or maybe, but just really for um conversation's sake. Um I thank your new motherboard. Yes. Good. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's great. Looks good. The animation's help. very helpful as would be a visit. Brad, thank you for offering. Maybe we'll get that in.

But um as far as next steps, I think, you know, we we sort of have have hammered down that last meeting that's we want more flexibility. we're limited in sort of our our toolkit on what that can look like, but the planning board um as I put in the staff report um sort of indicated that all of the proposed sort of alterations to our UDO to allow more flexibility in in uses were were pretty well supported and as well as sort of continuation of this boardwalk development. So really now it's this opportunity to kind of have enough um time to invite the public for a larger conversation and and see what business owners think. I've reached out to some. I've only received positive feedback so far. Happy to answer any questions or um engage in discussion. But hopefully next month we can in in my mind have a presentation from the tourism board on what they're doing if they're available and have a more open discussion with with business owners in the area and hear from them on, you know, where whether we we're right or or or or what else we should be considering or or including and um kind of continue to have this discussion about the boardwalk as well.

Are you saying you would have that at this meeting or the commissioner's meeting? um the planning board next month is what I'm thinking, you know, depending on their all their availability. Hopefully there's enough time now to get it in here. Yep. I guess I'm wondering if um if there's any plans for how does this get funded or is there any way to are we thinking about ways to raise money to do it or how does it actually come to fruition?

Um I mean I think We need property owner support first on at least the idea of it and and sort of a willingness to provide an access easement um and then you know board and public support as as well. But I think eventually it could um you know the potential money from from the tourism board maybe but also you know from grants um whether that could be a part of grant or um maybe even a public access grant for a portion of it. Um, so that would be my initial thoughts on that. Although, you know, I haven't sort of really fleshed out the funding of of of you know, what I've depicted here.

That's like basically the ne that would be the next step after buy in, right? Yeah. Getting everybody is that you know how they did Janette how they have the little fish plaques where you you could fund and then you get the your name on the board. I don't know if something like that would work for this. Yeah. No, that's a good idea. Yeah. So, this wouldn't be a portion of the of the town budget, you know, what commonly referred to as parks and paths or whatever the that portion of the budget.

Um, this haven't gotten that far, I guess, you know, but just curious. Yeah, I I guess I I my initial thought would be that we would try to exhaust and explore grant opportunities at least for a large portion and then you know potentially there's a match or some sort of sort of last mile so to speak. But I I guess that's what I you know I've been thinking we would look look for grant opportunities, right?

Well, sorry. I think it would be great to have the tourist bureau here if possible to make a presentation because obviously these things would be connected in whatever way, you know, and I think it be beneficial for both. That's just off the top of my head, but it would be good to have them here so we could hear what what they think and you know um and what and exactly what they're up to because I think that bid they're getting ready to accept a bid, aren't they? That's my understanding. Yeah. Yeah. for their boardwalk. Yeah, if you will, for that boardwalk. So, there's a lot happening down there. It's exciting.

Would it be beneficial to have uh the town manager involved as well or like have Andy come or not involved in like the meeting next month? Yeah, I mean I think if he's available to come um you know, I can certainly ask for Andy to to come and um I mean, I he's aware of sort of planning board and and what we've been talking about, but I think, you know, really the the next step just has to has to happen as far as engaging business owners and seeing what they think is is sort of, you know, a non-s skippable step, right?

And then and the board of commissioners has not really considered this topic yet. like they're we're kind of doing this now and then after this next meeting it kind of moves forward to like for them to think about. Is that how this works? Yeah, I would think so. I think you know kind of engaging the public on it and and hearing what they say will will partially drive that next step. But of course, we're always open to to their input, right? We're always we're always looking for guidance at

any any stage along the way. We're always interested in their guidance. as we uh engage the public and the tourist board and commissioners and and anyone else that we want to engage. Um I think at the same time it is helpful if we think this is a great path to go down to generate some enthusiasm and excitement also and uh cord does not exactly do that. I know it's scary.

Um and I I don't know I've thought about this ever since the last meeting. Um if if we could somehow work into uh as we refer to this area as soundside at Nags Head. I mean I can I already envisioned a whole marketing thing with you know sight sound strolls sips snacks sunsets. I like that. Soundside at Nags hit right. You have been thinking about this. I have been. I'm impressed. I'm impressed. That's great. Yeah. But uh just a thought. I mean we can still call it chord but then sound side. I like that. Formerly known as chord. We'll call it sound.

I think it's perfect. I mean I just think it would technical and everybody knows what it means, right? Unless they all start coming down southside road. Yeah. Right. Um yeah. No, I agree. I think it would be nice to pretty much sooner than later rebrand it from from the cord, right? Or, you know, it's something that's easily recognizable for people and they know what you're talking about and you know and where Yeah. And I mean, we have the Soundside event site. That's the official name for that, right? And so, um, anyway, good suggestion.

Sounds like a place you want to go. It does. Especially for all that stuff he said. What do we sip? Sip strolls. You know what else? All kinds of stuff. Love it. Sunsets. Yep. I'll make sure to start um incorporating that. And I think that's good. Go ahead and rebrand it.

You know, I think we're sort of at the stage where we're kind of right engaging property owners about the boardwalk, but also, you know, I want to hear from them from sort of their perspective on their properties, too. and and you know it eventually I hope that the text amendment portion of this effort will sort of come forward too and I think the public engagement piece will really help

say this is good or oh we didn't think about that or add something or remove that but I think that is something that's you know actionable through this board and um as we get engaged property owners whether the you know I think the all of those things are important but that's something that we can hopefully move through a in a more direct line than you know with the boardwalk. We get you know there's easements and then there's support and then there's funding and it obviously it's a it's a much process longer horizon on on perition basically.

Yeah. I was wondering why on this step we decided to stop right at Pamago Jack's site instead of including Darnell's with the the additional putt putt and the go-kart. Um, I'd say just just time. Um, and um, you know, I had the the recent site plan for the Southside events site and I had the outlets site plan um, sort of dig, you know, I didn't want to sort of take a lot of liberty with the freehanding and stuff, but it also gets, you know, cumbersome and just wanted to again sort of show this

idea really. I'm showing ideas. And so, you know, also, I don't know if you noticed, I didn't, you know, build out the um It's a nice

like this area, the Speedway, and you know, the um Jurassic putt. I I kind of threw in a building there. Um but this is these white buildings are the only structures that are actually existing. So once you remove, you know, all of the Jurassic putt and the Speedway area, I guess I I feel like that tells a story too where, you know, this is sort of a premier commercial corridor and their outdoor wreck uses, but really as far as the scale of structures and development, it's, you know, it's relatively small, I'd say. Yeah,

you know it. And and so again, I'm I'm just trying to show connection to the sound and sort of highlight a lot of the aspects of the report that be recommended. But it's it's a fair point. I didn't, you know, and you know, I kind of leave the buildings just sort of square masses. I didn't build out the shingles and the windows and the and the roof structures and all of that, too. It just gets I'm more trying to just kind of show an idea. Well, I was just curious because you could if you just added Darnell to the conversation, then he would, you know, he could give add a lot of more boardwalk to what we already have with just one more person input

or involvement. Like you're saying, we need his buy in for the whole project, too. Like, we don't need it, but I'm just saying it would be nice to have it in the conversation. Yeah, cuz I think I think he would be into it. I mean, you don't want to leave him stranded out there on the ed. Okay. Yeah. This is where it is time to engage people officially, right? Because rather than us kind of bantering it about in a public meeting, right? I mean, you're fine. It's a good question, right? But it is it's time I think. Yeah. I think you have a good suggestion staff does to move forward. So right now it's conversation conversation pretty much and then we're thinking like invite them to our planning board meeting.

Yeah, I think you know now I kind of have enough lead time. I didn't I didn't uh we we you know in last staff report I said this meeting but just the way the month went I think you know I can now sort of send those in by sort of hopefully this week and give people enough opportunity to yeah to show up and then it might be possible if it's not good for you know sometimes if people just can't make a meeting then you then you don't make any progress you know is there any way to I guess there's not that many to just sort correspond with them officially with a couple of simple questions almost like for lack of a better word almost like a survey or a mean I know then it's you know it's in writing but yeah

we'll see if you know we'll see if they can come if they want to come you know that's what I think I mean I think having having people here for a conversation would be best and and hopefully having the tourism board you know to sort of report in on real progress would would be a benefit um to the planning board and to everyone who owns property along the corridor and it can kind of be like a soundside uh soundside of Nags Head conversation. Is it soundside of Nag's head or Soundside of Nag whatever

um Bradley Brad's comment um I do feel like I know it takes a long time to make this but like I do feel like if we're going to bring people have the conversation like it would be nice to have like we have the adventure site on there. It would be nice to kind of show like the the other recreational aspects that are there. I mean if I don't know how much time you have to do it but if if we saw the other putt putt courses and the speed and spray or whatever it's called the track. Um, I just feel like it would just give it more of that like recreation like feel like takes you time. Yeah, and especially if we're inviting them to come here like I think they would like to see their business on there. That's a good point. That's what you said. Get busy.

Sorry. GIS joke. If we're showing this at the meeting, then I feel like it they should have their I I think maybe we should just get you another computer just or a helper, you know, a helper. Yeah. Reasonable for the model. It won't be an animation. Yeah. We know you love it, Joe. Yeah. Maybe just like a But then it'll be if there's an overview with it won't have the cool water in the clouds. Yeah. We want that. We like the clouds within reason. But do you see what I'm saying? If they're here, it's really cool. I bet it's bet it's very cool, Joe. Just roughly how much time did that part take you?

Well, it takes a lot of time to render. That's the thing. So, you make tweaks like once I design, you know, I don't know, maybe like a week to design, draw everything on the site, but then it was more, you know, it's multiple sites and trying to make it accurate. But what takes a long time is once you kind of tell it to render, these are all just sort of scenes from this model and it adds like all these special effects through Vray was the renderer I used and um okay it just takes a long time to render as a thing. So you make a tweet and you got it sit there for like a couple days. You don't really know what it did and you know okay well maybe we just look at the reference map and

yeah it became a bigger problem. That's why that's why I brought it up because I think it's really time. I don't want you to We appreciate you doing this a lot because it's really helpful. It really gives a great idea. Yeah. I hadn't used the whole rendering thing, you know, it'd be easy enough to to do it and just show you in like the model, but once you get the render and it um it's also software that I used on free trial. Oh, all right. Do what you do what you can. Yeah, there you go. After Effects want to get a free trial and do how many how many different login have you had to use to get this out?

Let me just say imagine what's already there piece it together in that way. But so how is anybody else still feeling like they'd want to go to on site and look at it or especially like Brad's offer to, you know, go up the tower and look? It's helpful to me. I mean, this is helpful, but I think there's nothing like really being right on site. Totally. So we can still Yeah, definitely. So I'll look to follow up and you know reach out to all of you on maybe a good day that we can kind of go in stages and it shouldn't take long, right? And follow up with the tourism board as well as property owners and hopefully um

know soon whether we'll have good enough attendance for what we're hoping for next month. We might have a few light days soon here. I know depending on the storm a bit breezy. Do you have a representative from the the outlets that Yeah, we've reached out to them and just made sure you know they're aware of the boardwalk. I um sent them this. They you know they were sort of supportive of the boardwalk idea anyway and not they live in Nagad or no. So, they probably won't make the meeting or do you think they will send somebody?

I'm not, you know, I'm not sure. I know they have a property manager here. Um, but I'll send the invite and they have commented on, you know, this and sort of our the boardwalk anyway and said they they've thought about that and are supportive. I know they're relatively new owners of of of it. So, certainly watch the meeting at least one way in the original. Is that an official question? That's a relative term. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Anybody Joe, do you have anything specific you need from us that we haven't covered?

No, I just wanted to follow up with this from the last meeting and sort of um kind of let you know, you know, that everything that I included for in last month's staff report I still plan on sort of bring forth. And I I think that's an important next piece. We kind of have to now sort of engage with the public and see and then based on what they say what people feel about this, right? Sort of be able to regroup on maybe more specific text amendments that then we can start bringing forward

and then um you know maybe um can sort of just present this idea to the board of commissioners at some point as well and and get their direct feedback. Perfect. Okay, it's great. Yeah, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Um, so we will now move on. I guess Kelly, you're back up for your planning and development director's report. Is there anything that we didn't cover? Couple things um maybe I can run through quickly with you guys, please.

So, um the subject advisory committee um which Basil sits on that um on behalf of the planning board. They met on July 30th and we pretty much finished up our conversations related to the division of water infrastructure um no interest loan that we want to offer people to have their septic systems um repaired if needed. So, uh, provided a presentation on this previously, but just as a reminder, it's, um, $500,000 that we have an opportunity to distribute to people with failing septic systems. Um, our current program is low interest. This would be no interest. and we have created a mechanism to identify the properties that we consider high risk that we're really going to try to proactively push this program towards. And that's going to be properties um primarily that are adjacent to water bodies, marshy areas, and have an elevation lower than 3 feet because those are the areas that are probably experiencing high ground water um and may have some septic issues. So um the the subjective health advisory committee was really helpful in um preparing a path forward that we can pre-qualify our contractors for um Davis Bacon uh prevailing wage requirements to ensure that they're meeting those as well as making sure that they meet the requirements for the American Iron and Steel Act. So, now that we have all of this together, um we can send this back to DWI and get their approval. Um make sure they're happy with everything that we're doing and willing to still provide

us the money before we start advertising that. So, um that's a um a big step that we're moving towards. Um the Estrin Shoreline Management Plan, Joe gave a great update to the board of commissioners on that. Um the the short of that um is that the consultants have finished up a lot of their uh geotechnical work and modeling. So on August or um yeah August 7th we had a um couple meetings here within the town. We had a stakeholders meeting where everybody that was part of the original shoreline management plan as well as the owners that are adjacent to those two sites, um, Villa Dunes Drive, Old Next Headwoods Road, and Soundside Road. They could come and learn about what the consultants have accomplished thus far and ideas for measures that we're considering adjacent to their properties. Um, there were some on-site meetings as well. Um, I guess where we're at right now, there seems to be um support for providing um some living shoreline measures adjacent to Villa Dunes Drive and Old Mag Head Woods Road. Um what was proposed along Soundside Road, we need to take a little break um and and revisit that. We need to have some more conversations with that. Um so it's ongoing, a little bit of progress, slow moving, but ongoing. um updated y'all on the dune management cost share program um Hard Road Street. We've applied for a grant to do some improvements there. So, we're hoping to hear back on that um late September. The Dark Skies Bright Stars Initiative um won't go into a whole lot of detail because Chris actually came here not too long ago and updated the board with what

he's doing there. Um, but we have had a lot of success collaborating with Nest um to get the word out about lights out for sea turtles. We've had some cleansings made. Uh there's a photo of that in your packet. Um so just moving forward with that Dowy Park events, I guess here to highlight. Um because of Aaron coming in, our Wednesday evening concert has been cancelled. um hoping to reschedu that. And then our last farmers market which was scheduled for Thursday, obviously that's a no-go. Uh but Paige is scrambling to reschedule that to actually Wednesday. Tomorrow Wednesday.

Yeah, that's what I saw. I thought that's definite, right? Yes. So not we may not have the same number of vendors um and things like that. Maxad Elementary School, it's a teacher workday, so we're not going to have their parking lot unfortunately. So, um, part of the why. Interesting. Part of the why.

Yes. But, um, we didn't want to lose our last market. We wanted to salvage something. So, um, that's actually going to be tomorrow. And, um, yeah, that's really all I have. I didn't want to show these photos of a a diarama that Chris Trembley, our planner, has put together for Dark Skies, Bright Stars. It was really cool. Um, and this is a copy of the clean that's being distributed to all the oceanfront property owners um to remind them uh to turn their lights out. Uh kind of dorky, I know, but we also have little green sea turtle stickers.

Oh, I think it's cute. So, um, essentially our staff or Nest staff or the rental management companies, if they will agree to do so, uh, we want them to go in, um, and identify the, um, outlets, the switches that relate to an outdoor light because if you're a visitor and you're coming in, probably see a wall of switches, and you have no idea which one goes to that bright light out by the pool. Um, but if you can take this little green sticker, plop that on there, that way you know an important light switch. Turn it off. I think it's cute.

And yeah, just to highlight some of the stuff we've been doing at Dowy Park, our part-time seasonal person um that we had, Emma Ortega, really allowed all of our events to be um just top-notch. She was wonderful. She helped Paige out so much. Um she's uh an upcoming senior at I think ECU. Um, so she's uh had to go back, so we don't have her anymore, unfortunately. But I just wanted to give her a shout out and um appreciate all that she did. That's all I have. You have any questions? Anybody have questions for Kelly on her report?

Thank you. Thank you. How about um board members agenda? Anybody have anything? Okay. Not at this time. Okay. Hearing none, then I'll move on. I have nothing on my chair person's agenda today. So, I will entertain a motion to a motion to adjurnn. Okay. And a second. And we are adjourned. Got that at the beginning. I'm always so distracted by this preaching. I never think about the I'm like, why do we need a g